Women who WILLED themselves into beauties

The media creates it more than they "will" themselves. And were Madonna and JA really considered "sex symbols?" Madonna was dubbed provocative and edgy, JA was cute girl next door.

Marilyn Monroe. She was extremely photogenic as well, but she looked more normal before the makeover.

Jayne Mansfield.

Joan Crawford. She DEMANDED you find her beautiful....she DARED you to disobey.

Bella Hadid. Before the starvation and plastic surgery she was cute at best. Now she's a supermodel.

Dolly Parton

Ariana Grande is a walking testament to plastic surgery

Me, de best Vairst Leddy.

Lolo Ferrari R.I.P

R1 When I was in college (2001-05), plenty of straight guys had posters of a scantily clad JA on the walls of their dorm rooms.

Kylie Jenner. This bitch is all plastic surgery, makeup and photoshop.

Madonna definitely had her moment as a sex symbol. Hence the Wayne's World where she was declared the "babe of all time," as well as the Penthouse pics. A straight friend watched Body of Evidence just for her sex scenes (and truthfully, there is NO other reason to watch it).

M and Jen ain't no beauty ever, not even by BBC Radio standard!!!! I can only give some examples that some natural beauties have been ruined by sheer force of plastic surgery: Megan Fox, Pamela Anderson, Emmanuelle Beart, etc.

Cher. Not a cnventional beauty.

Conventual. Opps.

My favorite still.

Kate Beckinsale owns this thread.

You’ll enjoy this, OP!

Of course, SJP is pictured with an equine pal!

I think Streisand qualified at times, in the 60s and early 70s.

r11, Khloe would qualify, too. I think she's had even more work done that Kylie.

That model with the big ... forehead.

r19 The thread clearly said BEAUTIES so no, she would never, ever apply.

Well, she made herself more conventionally "hot" with dieting, hair bleach, and more plastic parts than Mr. Potato Head

She definitely gets credit for losing the weight and taking steps to look better, but her transformation isn’t on the same level as Kylie’s.

Kylie Jenner looks like a Bratz doll

R24 maybe so, but she has inspired hundreds of Instamodels to copy her overworked plastic look. Kim did the same thing eight years ago. Women want to look like them. Nobody wants to look like Khloe.

Britney Spears

Norma Shearer, the Queen of the Lot!

[quote] Kate Beckinsale owns this thread.

Yeah she’s a great example. She was very dorky looking and borderline unattractive back in the day.

Ivanka Trump

I think Kate Beckinsale was always pretty, she did have implants and some other work, though

JLO. There is an example of great plastic surgery over time. She keeps subtly changing her nose and chin and cheeks. She's the best she's ever been in the last few years.

R29 DL loves to bash her, but Ivanka's work is flawless.

Amanda Lepore...

Pamela Anderson was never a classic beauty, but she was the prototypical cute girl with sex appeal before she went under the knife, at least as attractive as other actresses of her generation.

Sarah Michelle Gellar tried so hard to make herself into a generic looking non-Jewish blonde, and for a couple of years there, it sort of worked. Between the blondarexica and the regular anorexia. But then she hit a wall and she couldn’t pull it off anymore.

Brittany Murphy tried so hard for this too but obviously with much more tragic results (plus she always looked freakish, Gellar actually did look good).

R32 I totally agree. It’s a fucking miracle because man her “before”...

It's a stretch to call Pamela Anderson an "actress."

Meryl Streep. As a young girl she wore glasses and had mousey hair; she got contacts bleached her hair blonde, and became a sought after beauty, voted "Best Looking" in high school. Her transformation was her first great acting triumph.

Jennifer Aniston & Brittany Spears should NEVER.....EVER....EVERRRRRR be mentioned in a thread like this!!!

FFS, ask any lesbian or straight guy on here.

Loni Anderson, pictured her with Mr. Burt Reynolds.

Anjelina Jolie

Blanche Devereaux.

Now we know what Angelina looked like before the nose job

Lana Del Rey

^ she definitely had a nose job and filler in her upper lip

R32, I dunno, she overdid it with the nose. But she definitely looks better.

No pics because I'm too lazy, but Anifer Jeniston's schnozz got reduced from mack truck to short bus.

Sharon Stone

Morgan Fairchild.

Heidi Montag.

A lot of these women didn't "will" themselves into beauty; they already had it. Sharon Stone, Angelina Jolie, Marilyn Monroe, Dolly Parton....all had very pretty faces to begin with.

Melanie Mayron probably had the biggest transformation of any woman ever. From homely in her early films to pretty on thirtysomething.

Loni Anderson. I thought she was ugly with those bulbous cheeks, but the country seemed to go ga ga for her back in the day.

I’ll never understand why Montag had plastic surgery so young. She was pretty but instantly aged 20 years after the surgery.

R54 because she's a moron.

Bella Hadid is ugly AF and a "supermodel" in her head. The real supermodels are all mostly retired now. These trashy reality tv show girls and their bought careers are a joke. At least Cindy's daughter is legitimately pretty. I miss the old days!

IMO, Cindy Crawford's daughter is not that great-looking. I do think Bella Hadid is good-looking, but she thinned (plastic surgery) her nose too much.

I think the new popular plastic surgery is to make your eyes slightly lifted at the outer corners, like Kendall Jenner.

Kendall looks in r57 like she got a complete brow-lift as well as the nose job and lip fillers.

all of the models today are a joke. not one natural beauty in the mix. the Hadid girl and the Jenners -- fake plastic hogs.

J law

Kendell now looks like a freak too. Congratulations girls! I don't want to even guess how the plastic faces will look in 30 years.

Diana. She always had the amazing skin and eyes, of course, but when she arrived on the scene she had straight, mousy hair and was such a frump the cry for a makeover could be heard around the world. She was a bit plump, then she lost too much weight, and the long skirts and voluminous frills of the Sloane Ranger set did not sit well on her. This phase lasted till well after William's birth.

I've heard she went to Vogue and asked them to help, but certainly when she discovered the designer Catherine Walker she transformed into a celebrity so glamorous nobody can adequately play her in a movie.

[quote]DL loves to bash her, but Ivanka's work is flawless.

She did get good work though I think she had several nose jobs and the last one went a tad too far. It also took her awhile to settle on the right sized veneers.

Although I love her music, I find Lana Del Rey hard to look at. I think it’s her duck mouth.

R59 That's because most of today's models are the products of nepotism. No more pretty girls from working class backgrounds like Cindy Crawford and Linda Evangelista.

Clearly no amount of money and plastic surgery can make Madonna look attractive.

I can't get over that chick @r50. She even felt her hair wasn't blond enough. What it is with that barbie doll yellow they all use? My God and those tits. Did she tell the surgeon "make them look as fake as possible"?

What is*

"I think the new popular plastic surgery is to make your eyes slightly lifted at the outer corners, like Kendall Jenner."

She also had her nose and lips done (like her sister)

I agree that Sharon Stone at R48 was a very pretty girl to start with, her hideous 70s shag haircut notwithstanding.

Carolyn Bessette Kennedy

Marlo Thomas.

Dusty Springfield.

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Twenties Dusty.

Caitlin Jenner - nah, I couldn't even type that without laughing!

Sally.

Dusty Springfield is an excellent example. She completely reinvented her public persona, including her name. Her style was so over-the-top (even for the 60s) that it was virtually camp, even though Dusty always served it straight up. It seemed to be some abstract idea of "glamour" as much as glamour itself. Gay men adored her. Most people didn't know she was also gay.

She was a very different, very private woman under the wigs, the contact lenses, the makeup, etc.

I agree r65. They quality is just gone. There's no more "it" factor in models today. Maybe Gigi comes closest but she's short for modeling. She does photograph well.

There are a lot of good models, they're just not the ones who get all the attention

I thought Pamela Anderson looked so cute in her early days r34. Then more plastic surgery, implants, the caked-on make-up made her look so hard and less feminine. She looks so different when you compare her first and last season on Baywatch and she wasn't even on that show for that long (let's not even discuss how many times she changed her name).

I liked her back when she was that cute Canadian girl.

I AM beautiful, dammit!

I despise her, but I think with surgery, fillers and hair treatments, Meghan Markle has come a long, long way from where she started. She has a pretty, appealing face, more so before her marriage.

I admire Madonna for becoming a sex symbol without actually being attractive.

I know Hunter Tylo ruined her face with plastic surgery but back in the '80s she did a movie with DL fave Daphne Zuniga called The Initiation. She looked different (and less pretty) than her Bold and the Beautiful days. She obviously got a nose job before B&B and it did wonders for her. It was the subsequent surgeries that ruined her face.

R83 what kind of surgery did Meghan get?

I'm not R83, but she got her nose done. But, then, so did 90% of Hollywood.

I’ve never thought JA was beautiful. She has a great figure, though, and great hair. She’s also had great work done.

Marilyn Monroe had a nose job and a chin job.

R87 that's what i thought.

Goldie Hawn — maybe not a “great beauty” (then again many of the mentions here are even less so), but certainly a traditionally very pretty all American blonde, compared to her Laugh-In days. Had excellent work done and (until she got much older) knew when to stop.

MM also had cosmetic dentistry which was very successful. But she seems to have repeated it, and the results are not as good as before.

Julia Roberts.

One day I will get “work done”. One day~

Miss Jared Leto

Hailey Bieber. Don’t think she’s that beautiful but she had a nose job, chin implant, blepharoplasty and browlift with fillers all done so subtlety and the Dr. did an excellent job.

R95 except she looks like every other basic bitch in Hollywood.

Miss William O'Connor

Gigi Hadid is not short for modeling, R79. Various sites list her as 5'9.5" to 5'10.5". For decades the standard height requirement for fashion models is 5'9" and above, and most of the 90s supermodels weren't 6 feet tall. Naomi and Linda are 5'9.5". Christy, Helena, and Stephanie are 5'10". Cindy and Carla Bruni are 5'9". Very few successful models are shorter than 5'9". I can think of three: Kate Moss and Laetitita Casta (both 5'7") and the late Gia Carangi (5'8").

At least Gigi has an expressive face. Bella, Kendall, and Hailey (snort) have dead eyes.

Plastic surgery can only improve on what you already have. If you were homely to begin with (Joan Rivers, Tori Spelling), no amount of plastic surgery will turn you into a beauty.

Salma Hayek got obvious breast implants, but her nose job was excellent.

Laetitita? Good Lord!

[bold]Laetitia[/bold] Casta

Laketitica-Casta

Lady Gaga did her damndest to WILL herself into beauty… and, well.

Dove Cameron

WHO? ^

She just did "Light in the Piazza" with Renée Fleming. What kind of homosexual are you?

Salma had a really good nose job

r31, her nose is still her nose. It's her makeup artist, Scott Barnes that contours the crap out of her face (you should she how he does it). Here's a recent vid (complete with the RuPaul filter on the blind setting), and you can see how wide her nose is:

Her nose isn't "wide"

[quote]She just did "Light in the Piazza" with Renée Fleming. What kind of homosexual are you?

One who's into sports, not musicals.

Marilyn monroe fits this profile more than anybody in the last 100 years. She was always photogenic but she went from plump farm girl norma Jean into this incredible beauty thanks to the best hair and makeup people on the planet at the time, dieting, platinum blond, maybe a chin implant and a slight nose alteration. Also some people get more beautiful as they get a few years out the their teens. This was Marilyn. When she got thin you could see the bone structure in the face......I have never seen a more beautiful woman than the photos of the behind the scenes events the night she sang happy birthday at madison sq garden to the president. and tbe after party. The filmed part of her singing doesnt really show it but the photos around the event......wow.......... Some photo sessions of hers afterwords, particlarly those on the beach in santa monica were not as good and I think she suspected she probably had about 3 or 4 years left before she wasnt going to like what she saw on the screen.

I'm skeptical about the plastic surgery ascribed to Monroe. Back then, everyone got a ski slope nose. And yet Marilyn managed to escape?

r110, look at the before and after pics. She did have a nose job, but it was a subtle one. It's so hard for you to believe a star had plastic surgery?!

No. Plastice surgery wasn't that good back then. Look at Hedy Lamar's first facelift.

Markle had chin implant, buccal fat removal (they scoop the insides of the cheeks out), eye work, brow lift, and at least 3 sets of veneers, each worse than the last. There's nothing she can do about the bad body and legs.

I think some of you are mistaking make up (contouring, highlighting) for PS. You're telling me the nose on the right has been bobbed?

The picture on the right here is earlier than the one on the right above. Her nose looks smaller because of the makeup, lighting and angle.

Her plastic surgery has been written about before. Do some research. She had her chin done, too

Her nose looks smaller here.

But less small here. And yet... this is the same photo shoot.

R118 editing. I do it with mine to thin mine out all the time.

And it’s existed well before digital.

Between makeup, lighting and editing not all of these cases are clear, unless you really see that the bones are different — like Markle or Blake Lively, who also belongs on this list.

Eiza Gonzalez

Blake Lively is a great example. Boob job, nose job, had her teeth done.

Well if you're using Blake as an example then throw in Angelina Jolie as well, with all her rumored surgeries.

Dita von Teese

Marilyn Monroe didn't "will" herself into a beauty. She willed herself into an impossibly glamorous movie star sex goddess, but before she made that transformation she was a very pretty girl. A beauty. But yes, she did have minor nose surgery, a jaw implant and some dental work. But the raw beauty was already there.

Norma Shearer. She had a cast in her eye and a lumpy figure but by doing everything possible to downplay her flaws (and relentless drive and ambition) she made herself into one of the most glamorous stars of her era. And marrying the head of production at MGM, the legendary Irving G. Thalberg, didn't hurt, either.

G managed to make herself pretty sexy for the first part of Fatal Attraction. I think it is interesting and brave how her appearance deteriorates as her mind does.

This is about Monroe’s surgery.

Loni Anderson didn't make herself over that much by the time she was famous, except for her hair.

She was homecoming queen in h.s.

I look so young for 35 don't you think?

i'm 33 you impostor at r129!!!

R39 I agree!

R128 that was just proof that in the 70s and early 80s you could be a dawg but if you made yourself blonde you were considered a “beauty.”

have you guys seen my new face today? a completely new face, different from the last year's one and of course the year before...

Sheryl Crow - and you can tell when she slacks.

Is she fucking serious with that photo, R133? Vaseline-on-the-camera-ala-Barbara-Walters-level airbrushing with that picture.

[quote]She even felt her hair wasn't blond enough. What it is with that barbie doll yellow they all use? My God and those tits. Did she tell the surgeon "make them look as fake as possible"?

I don't know where it comes from, but evidently there is a market for it. I knew a very pretty woman who completely destroyed her looks by bleaching to a canary yellow unknown in nature. Her hair was fried, no amount of conditioner could have calmed the frizz. She accessorized her look with huge bolt-ons, hooker hills (more like stilts) and a dark tan😮.

I cannot explain it, she was facially beautiful, if petite.

Angelina Jolie had bug eyes and a mouth that looked like a prolapsed anus and zero in terms of a chiseled face. She had a nose job, cheek implants, smoothing and raising of the forehead (laser hair removal and injections), tear duct filler for the bug eyes and lips given a smooth look with acid. Then she hired an amazing makeup team. Nothing on her was beautiful.

Madonna is, was, and always will be a hag. She did not will herself beautiful.

Madonna could go a long way if she ditched her trademark mustard yellow dye job with an inch of black roots. This is not a look; it's an abomination.

R11 that plastic freak aint no “beauty”

R140 which I'm sure was a huge disappointment for Kris.

Queen of Chick Fil A

Fox is the opposite - she was beautiful to begin with and had plastic surgery she didn't need

What R143 said. I've always thought that about Fox. I mean what ugly Hollywood exec told her to get work done?

It was probably a technician. The first photographer Mariah Carey did a session with gave her a complex about her "bad" side.

r144 Probably Michael Bay or one of his cronies, her husband strikes me as skeevy too - she became a massive international sex symbol right out of the gate and didn't have any good men in her life

I think someone put it into her head that she could be the next Angelina Jolie, so she did what she could to push that resemblance.

What about this ravishing beauty?

R146 You're probably right. According to Kate Beckinsale, who worked with him in Pearl Harbor, he made many rude comments about her looks and weight!

Jaime Bergman, who was on Son of a Beach and is a former Playboy Playmate, has talked about an old boyfriend who used to viciously insult her looks and weight. From the clues she's given, I'm 99% sure she's talking about Bay.

That's because Bay is an insecure, angry, ugly fuck -like most Hollywood assholes behind the scenes- who knows these women would have nothing to do with him if he weren't working in Hollywood. He feels he needs to put them down because he undoubtedly feels their lives are too perfect being so beautiful, so he knocks them down a few pegs.

Many straight men are just angry, esp., the ugly ones who feel entitled to beautiful women. Bay would be an incel if not for his career.

Ugly guys like to do that.

I wondered how Michael Sheen pulled a beauty like Kate Beckinsale, but this is closer to the Beckinsale he got with.

R152 This is from 2001. The same year that Pearl Harbor came out.

Speaking of Michael Bay, does anyone remember when he claimed to be the son of John Frankenheimer?

Lighting is everything.

Look at that gross pig @r153. Just look at that hog!

The 35th version of Khloe Kardashian's face is gorgeous

Megan Fox's new face is depressing she was a beauty. Hollywood is a fucked up place. So many beautiful ppl chopped up for nothing ghastly.

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Audrey had a nose job

r152-you mean THIS Michael Sheen?

Goop and Gwen Stefani

I don't know why people are mentioning Pamela Anderson, Britney Spears and Marilyn Monroe. Their good looks caught people's attention BEFORE any of them transformed into blonde sex symbols.

I wouldn't classify Madonna as a beauty, but at her peak she was above average looking imo.

R163, Pam had a ton of work

Pam had not had a ton of work when she appeared on "Home Improvement."

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Bad legs, though.

She had already had surgery in that pic

Not a ton.

I can't believe no one has mentioned Nicole Kidman yet.

Anna Nicole Smith

Halle Berry

Wow, Halle Berry looks like she had a LOT of work done. Her eyes, nose, and lips all look totally changed.

That doesnt even look like halle berry at all

Madonna was a cute girl, with great tits, in the 70s. She had everything necessary to transform into a pretty, photographic woman. She never became a great beauty but here and there she was definitely beautiful, especially in her 40s.

Amber Heard

That photo of Amber was 2003/2004. Here's a more present photo:

A work of art.

I don't understand how women can will themselves into beauties. I've tried willing my hair go grow back but it's not happening.

Meghan never had a pretty face, even after the extensive work. She's average at best, even then. Although to be fair her husband is no looker either. Gigi is in no way 5'9" any more than Meghan is 5'6". They lie.

R167 her legs look fine....

R180 I can't believe Rihanna slept with him.

I got married to a CEO and became the host of 2 shows on CBS.

I all it took was to give up my racial identity.

[quote]At least Gigi has an expressive face.

Gigi's blonde hair is her best feature because her face is boring and flat like a pancake. On the contrary Bella's more Semitic looks have enabled her to carve herself into something vaguely feline and European which is more interesting by default.

Morgan Fairchild OWNS this thread!

^If you told me that was Taylor Swift dressed as a 1950s teen for Halloween, I'd believe it.

This is mostly women who have surgeried themselves into monsters, not beauties.

Molly Webber, backstabbing little bitch!

They don't "will" themselves into transformation, R179; they form a plan of improvements and execute them. This takes commitment and resources. You can do the same with your hair loss; there are effective treatments.

The OP made it quite clear they they didn't mean just "positive thinking." The fuck.

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia at R187:

I’d say “suck it up, buttercup!” but I’M the one who’s going to do the sucking tonight—on that luscious astronaut cock!

R189 The fuck. The examples such as that hag Madonna are not beautiful, they are ugly inside and out.

Kylie Jenner’s work had been great until recently (except for the gigantic butt). Now, she’s looking strange.

Ariana Grande’s plastic surgery made created a lovely gamine look for her, once she was rid of the huge honker. She's adorable.

Kendall Jenner has gone too far. She looks very generic now.

Caitlynn and Kendall should have kept their original noses or at least not narrowed them so much.

Halle Berry’s work is fantastic although she is ugly on the inside.

Bella Hadid has gone too far. She looks plastic and like an alien. She has dead eyes and always looks so sad and tired. I don’t know if it is the Lyme disease that makes her this way.

Amber Heard got a good nose job but it is really her (old) hair, makeup and styling that turned her into a beauty. She has never looked as good as she did when she was with Johnny and attending all of those events with him.

Kaia Gerber is finally starting to show some character in her modeling photos. Sh’s looking better.

Meghan Markle’s veneers looked the best in the photo below where she is exiting Canada House. The top side teeth were a bit smaller and made her look much younger. Then, she got a set of huge veneers that look fake and like she has trouble closing her lips. The too big veneers were on display when she and Harry returned to London and she wore that hideous green get-up.

Here are the top side teeth plus incisor with bigger/elongated veneers that are now longer than the front center teeth. She doesn't look as young or as good as she did leaving Canada House.

Women who became beautiful by force of talent and intelligence- not surgery. Streep, Streisand, Blanchett come to mind.

Bette Davis, R194, can't forget her.

I don't mind the odd nose job or chin job, sometimes people are born with issues of too much/not enough. A facelift or neck pull or eye tuck, whatever, it's fine. You're still you, and other than that poor girl whatshername - Joel Grey's daughter, you still look mostly like you and once it all settles down you look fine.

It's the total transformations from looking like one person when you were born to looking like a completely different person later on through multiple surgeries. It's fucking weird.

Look at photos of the Kardashians when they were young and then look at them now. They're unrecognizable. Kendall and Kylie are still very young and they have obliterated their original looks. I suppose it seems less weird to them when the whole family's doing it but most people who do this kind of transforming don't come from that sort of family.

I vote for the lower left photo as Kylie's best "look" here, she's fresh and pretty. Tweaked a little, better but not yet the cartoon she is on the right.

And look at Khloe now:

Her before:

That does look like Denise Richards! Or at least DR ten years ago. What does that indicate about your psyche that you basically have a full head transplant? I don’t get it. You must not like yourself very much.

Bree Walker, newscaster. She was naturally pretty despite being born with syndactylism, but her subsequent plastic surgeries transformed her into a freak show.

Wasn't she known as "Sasquatch" around here?

It's as if the women in that family are trying to out-surgery each other.

r159 wondered how Audrey Hepburn achieved her slender figure. As a child in the occupied The Netherlands, she suffered from chronic malnutrition.

"What does that indicate about your psyche that you basically have a full head transplant? I don’t get it."

Well when it comes to women in the entertainment field, people who get "full head transplant" surgeries aren't so much suffering from a mental disorder as hoping to make money out of it. If you work in a field where all the big money is reserved for people who look young and beautiful, you move heaven and Earth and your own facial features to try to look young and beautiful.

Although of course, that sort of thing is quite the slippery slope. Trying to stay employed in a field where age discrimination is common and legal can easily turn into grotesque oversurgery, which is followed by more surgeries to fix the previous surgeries. I bet some of these women are spending more than they could ever hope to earn, if they'd kept their looks.

Khloe is Mrs Potato Head

My bothers were crazy about Pam Anderson when she was fresh faced on Home Improvement and didn't like that harsher look she had later as much.

I don't get why so many women aspire to look like blow up dolls. They all go for the same plastic look with over-inflated lips, pounds of makeup and drag queen eyelashes. Some of them with those gross old school fake nails too. Forget Barbie, they want to look like a Bratz doll.

Every straight guy I know prefers a softer, more natural look so I don't understand what the motivation is to look so fake. I suppose they're competing with other women but it seems counter-intuitive to try to outfake each other when that's not what the men they are competing for want. Oh well, I guess as long as straight men will still fuck them they don't see a reason to stop.

Penelope Cruz, who, to me, looks like someone smeared a wet painting of Salma Hayek.

Those dolls don't have big enough asses, R204, otherwise they're perfect.

It's like that's exactly what Khloe is going for. She even looks like she has an oversized head like a Bratz doll in her latest pics.

They all look weird and distorted, like cartoons, with those huge asses.

"Every straight guy I know prefers a softer, more natural look so I don't understand what the motivation is to look so fake"

Yes, straight men usually want their wives or serious girlfriends to have the softer, more natural look, but haven't you ever seen a straight man ignoring his natural-looking wife or girlfriend to goggle at one of the blow-up dolls? Straight men pay attention to the Bratz-doll types, a lot of attention even if it's usually very temporary, and some regard them as toys or trophies.

Of course they don't take the Bratz-dolls seriously, and a lot of them don't think that sort of women are really people. Easy mistake to make, I suppose, the way they look.

My god Pamela was adorable. Every man’s wet dream:

The gigantic asses are grotesque.

Are you saying that most straight men don't marry fucktoys?

There are girls you marry and girls you fuck. These Kardashians? Strictly for fucking, the nastier the better.

Only a crazy dumbass like Kanye or a that sleazy cunt looking for a payday like Disick - they marry fucktoys. Trump marries fucktoys.

Most straight men with normal intelligence who come from normal families don't marry and have children with fucktoys. They hire them in Vegas, the nastier the better.

That being said, I have a lot of love for Ice-T and Coco.

Sofia Richie is morphing into a Kardashian. She's already had the nose job and boob job and the longer she's with Scott the more she adopts that fake, cheap look.

Khole was an ogre before the surgery. She had an enormous masculine chin.

[quote]Ivanka's work is flawless

Very much have to disagree. Her veneers are tragic and the nose has been flattened too much into a generic nose-like shape, removing any character from her face. Less work would have helped her immensely, because she used to have character and expression and life in her face. Now she's just bland like oatmeal, soulless and dead inside, not even remotely interesting.

Well to be fair she [italic]is[/italic] soulless and dead inside so you can't put that all on the plastic surgery.

Aniston might’ve willed it, but it never happened.

Madonna was photogenic.

Miss Ross

Mon always said that Diana was no beauty, but she was very glamorous.

Mon = Mary Wilson?

Speaking of the Kardashian/Jenner family, has Kourtney had any surgery like the other sisters?

"Mon always said that Diana was no beauty, but she was very glamorous. "

I disagree, I always thought that Diana was a slightly unconventional beauty. I mean, you'd think she wouldn't have been beautiful with that nose, but somehow she was!

Funny thing about Diana, she was supremely photogenic, but only when filmed. Still pictures didn't do much for her, but in motion, on moving film, she was stunning. Some of the great screen beauties were that way.

"Funny thing about Diana, she was supremely photogenic, but only when filmed."

Bullshit.

R221 she's had a boob/nose job.

Did she have her hairline raised as well?

Check out a woman on YouTube named Lorry Hill. She does an amazing job breaking down both male and female stars’ plastic surgeries including Angie and Gaga and Ryan Gosling, etc. I just found her channel and it’s actually quite educational. It takes a lot of “work” to become a a star.

I just checked out the Lorry Hill videos and they are bizarrely fascinating

Greta Garbo

Mata Hari

[quote] I always thought that Diana was a slightly unconventional beauty.

She looked like Wayne Gretzky.

Edith Adams.

I love Josephine Baker but think she was definitely more style and talent than would would be considered naturally beautiful. I think she had to work hard to become the star she was given what she came from. Very admirable lady.

Baker had a very pretty face but more than that, incredible presence and with her dancer's body, a universal sex appeal (that crossed genders). The French understood her innate chic better than Americans.

I think Eartha Kitt also had some of those qualities, particularly as a young performer.

"Greta Garbo."

Greta Garbo didn't need to "will" herself into anything, beautywise. She always had that incredible face.

Garbo was considered chunky when she started, they put her on a diet

Dietrich, too

Greta got some much needed help from the glam squad at MGM.

Garbo lost weight, got a new hairstyle, and had some dental work. But that incredible beauty, that FACE, was always there. She didn't need to "will" herself into beauty; she just needed a little fine tuning. It's not like she needed any major changes.

Ack! She was hideous! Omg!

But Garbo wasnt the one who WILLED herself into beauty, the MGM makeup department and cinematographers did that.

Garbo herself never put much effort into her looks.

Those people at MGM really were magicians. In her natural state Garbo was very frumpy. She looked like a milk maid. But when they glammed her up and put it in front of the camera there was no one else like her. When she's on screen you can't take your eyes off of her.

You're not taking weight into account. She could have lost weight on her own and looked worlds better.

Garbo had ugly hands and feet.

Bette Davis. Especially in MR. SKEFFINGTON. Fanny Trellis was a great beauty in the novel. Davis, while attractive, was not, but she made you believe that she deserved all of those ardent suitors in the film.

"Garbo had ugly hands and feet."

No, that was just an urban myth, especially about her feet. Garbo was so perfect that people just HAD to find something wrong with her. So the rumor was that she had huge feet. She didn't. A man who made shoes for her said she wore a size 7AA shoe. Not large at all.

No, she had thick wrists and ankles. Not attractive at all. And her famous face was mainly camera angles and thick makeup.

Garbo had a flat chest and cankles

"No, she had thick wrists and ankles. Not attractive at all. And her famous face was mainly camera angles and thick makeup."

You're either blind or nuts. Garbo is considered one of the great beauties of all time. And you must be pretty desperate to disparage her if all you can come up with is "thick wrists and ankles."

"Garbo had a flat chest and cankles."

Her chest was average and she didn't have cankles. You're nuts or blind.

r246 is blind. And comes across as a fangurl who can't be objective

R247, if you think Garbo was unattractive then you are indeed blind. And nuts, too.

I didn't say she had an ugly face. I said she had cankles and a flat chest. Which is true.

Garbo got mocked for being a big sturdy gal, but she was 5'6" and slim - an average-sized woman. But she was big compared to most actresses, because being tiny and dainty was in style.

In the late twenties and early thirties when Garbo was at her height, the fashionable beauty was "Five foot two, eyes of blue", with tiny hands and feet and a baby face, even annoying affected baby voices were in style. Garbo was slightly taller than average when it was fashionable to be short, broad-shouldered and broad-hipped when it was fashionable to be small-boned, and had a deep voice when sounding like a toddler was in. And face it, she was kinda butch in real life, so yeah - she wasn't a think like the other actresses of her day and some people mocked her for it.

"I didn't say she had an ugly face. I said she had cankles and a flat chest. Which is true."

No, it's NOT true. You just want to find fault with her for some unhealthy reason. There's a nude photo of her topless and she had very acceptable breasts. And "cankles?" Full length photos of her show she did NOT have them. Garso was called "The Divine One." And she was. Your attempt to portray her as not that great looking is weird.

R251, your slavish devotion to Garbo is weird.

R252, I'm just saying what's been said about Garbo by virtually everybody for ages: she was an incomparable beauty. Her "flaws (flat chest? CANKLES?)" are all in your weird imagination.

She was considered to be a beauty because of her face....she wasn't a pinup girl for straight guys like Betty Grable was because she didn't have a hot body.

That Hilton chick who remains ugly.

Garbo had a perfectly good figure, and here's her legs and feet in a photo so casual I don't think it's retouched. But no, she wasn't a sex symbol to straight men, but IMHO that was more because of the kind of films she made than her looks - which about as good as surgically unenhanced human looks get. No, in her films she never played the kind of woman who tried to please straight men, the men always tried to please her!

And even though I'll talk about Garbo until someone makes me stop, I still don't think she belongs on this thread. She didn't WILL herself into a beauty, she was born with all the ingredients for beauty, and it was the staff of MGM that brought it out rather than Garbo herself.

Lopez was always a beauty, she needed no plastic surgery, idiot.

Cankles...flat chested. She was no Ingrid Bergman.

And her acting style, like that of Norma Shearer, was an unfortunate throwback to the silent era.

"Cankles...flat chested. She was no Ingrid Bergman.

And her acting style, like that of Norma Shearer, was an unfortunate throwback to the silent era."

She didn't have cankle. You're blind and stupid.

She didn't have a flat chest. You're still blind and stupid.

I don't think you've ever seen anything she's acted in. You, for some bizarre reason, just hate Greta Garbo. You're weird.

Mira Sorvino

Mira Sorvino was never considered a beauty.

Lopez was never a beauty. Her daughter has her real face too. Even with all the changes Lopez is still low rent.

Lopez looks better know than in her twenties, thanks to heavy makeup and plastic surgery

"even annoying affected baby voices were in style."

What a ghastly time that must have been!

Only on the DL is Lopez considered to be unattractive

Jennifer Lopez was a pretty girl but not prettier than a lot of girls. She has has a big ass and a small chest. Her face has been altered over the years and especially in the last couple and she has become much more striking. Some of it might be makeup but some of it is definitely surgery--and she's 50, right? Everybody shows some aging at 50 unless they've had work done. You don't get better looking with age. Anyway, she is a perfect example for this thread.

She doesn't have a small chest. And she was always attractive. Let's face it, a big part of the reason she has a career is because she's hot. Her acting is decent but her singing is awful.

R124: Marilyn had a chin implant, not a jaw implant. It was made of cartilage and later dissolved (as described in R127's link). She also had her hairline raised by electrolysis, like Rita Hayworth.

Incidentally, she did not have a boob job, as some have claimed. Chest x-rays from a hospital visit were auctioned off years ago and proved she had no implants. She did wear the 1950s version of a push-up bra.

R180: Gigi cannot lie and get away with it in the fashion industry. Her height and proportions are measured by prospective employers, who have narrow requirements. A fashion model won't get hired if she lies about her height or weight. If her agency says she's 5'9", then it's true. Kate Moss, a short outlier among models, never lied about her 5'7" height because she would've been called out on it if she had said she was taller.

Actors (like Tom Cruise) can lie because how they appear on film is more important than their actual measurements. Unlike models, they don't need to fit into specific sample sized clothes determined by fashion designers.

R183: To you, Gigi's face is flat and boring. Yet it's natural and expressive. To Maybelline (a major mulitnational corporation that gave her a lucrative contract), she has the looks + personality to be their spokesmodel. There is life in her eyes. That said, she pales in comparison to 90s supermodels.

Bella is incapable of much expression besides her dead-eyed look, due to all that obvious plastic surgery, which carved up her face to erase her natural, distinctive features. She is meh at her job. She cannot convey a variety of emotions in photos and her walk is amateurish. The surgery created cheekbones and a smaller nose, but it wasn't a success. She ended up looking unoriginal: a second-rate Carla Bruni.

In the book about Gloria Vanderbilt ("Little Gloria: Happy At Last"), the author talks of her aunt Gertrude Whitney, quoting an acquaintance of hers as saying "she wasn't beautiful, but her MADE herself beautiful." Well, Gertrude Whitney certainly bedecked herself in the most lavish and expensive clothes and jewelry that money could buy. But NOTHING could disguise the fact that she was homely as a goddamn horse. She looked like an ugly man in drag. But if you're rich, I guess some people will say you're "beautiful."

Standards of beauty are different every generation or so. Look at our "standard" now.

Well here's Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney.

I assume she learned how to wear her fabulous outfits with style, later in life.

Suzanne Somers. The more you look at her face the more you realize how plain she really was. She had pleasant facial features but that's definitely not sex symbol material.

R274 I put that in a different category of “the era when anyone who was blonde was considered pretty or a sex symbol” even if their faces were meh or sometimes less than meh. You see it a little bit today (hi, Kaley Cuoco) but mainly that was a thing in the 70s and early/mid 80s.

Just look at most of the blondes Jack Tripper dated on TC. They were all supposed to be 9s and 10s but most of them were not pretty at all — least of also Greedy Gretchen.

Brittany Murphy

R276 that’s not just trying to will herself into a beauty but into a different race.

Eleanor Roosevelt.

Another vote for Julia Roberts.

Carla Bruni had a nose job and cheek implants as well. Just like the second rate Bella Hadid. You just didn’t have social media to compare old photos in those days with experts analyzing features and all. Lots of models had plastic surgery then as well. There is just SO much more now as well as the abhorrent nepotism which has ruined the fashion industry.

I think Julia Roberts looked hotter at the very beginning of her career in Mystic Pizza than anything she did after.

R276 I thought Murphy was better looking before she got skinny and blonde.

I loved her in My Best Friend's Wedding

Speaking of Brittany Murphy.. who believes the way she died? Was there a thread on her and her weird husbands death ? Murder suicide?

Poor Britney Murphy. Yes, I wish someone would do a full on investigation on her death. The mother and the husband just all seemed totally bizarre. RIP. So devastating.

Greta Garbo was 5'7 inches tall. And according to the costume designer Adrian, her measurements were 35 and a half, 28, 33 and a half. She had an average figure.

Damn... Ivanka Trump's head looked like a fucking potato before. Don't get why Trump was/is so obsessed with her.

I mean, besides the fact that he's a narcissist and views her as a female version of himself. Not only that, but he also had her with Ivana, who was probably his favorite out of all his wives.

Didn't he have Don Jr and Eric with Ivana too? He doesn't seem to like them much.

They didn't will themselves into beauties OP, they surgically made themselves beauties. And by the way, when they have ugly babies don't be surprised. Surgery does not alter genes.

R289, you've reminded me of the all the Korean ladies who get plastic surgery:

Yes there's a difference between the effort and attitude that makes someone appear beautiful, and the actual physical alteration.

You will never convince me that Goop is beautiful. She had a thin, blonde elegance that carried her in her youth and all the PR in the world exalting her Grace Kelly bona fides, but she willed that label. Sheer confidence. Charlize is beautiful. Margot is. Not Gwyneth and it is painfully clear now that she's old.

Anne Hathaway also willed it with a bit glamour.

R290 is that really the same person?

r291 I did some work with Dan Bucatinsky, who is Don Roos' husband, and in their house there is a pic of a young Goop with Don,, Man she was plain- thick nose, freckles, wavy frizzy hair.

Anna Nicole Smith was nothing much to look at. She looked like an average white trash girl. But she bleached her hair bright blonde, got huge breast implants, piled on the makeup and voila! She was then considered this gorgeous babe. Of course she got plastic surgery, too, and eventually really overdid it. But before all the improvements, she was, at best, ordinary looking.

R291 Goop is indeed plain but she, as you pointed out, had that prissy WASP-y ice princess thing going on that affluent straight white men go ga-ga for.

It only works when the woman is young though, then she just becomes a Karen.

A Karen or a Gloria?

Jackie On Assistance.

Yeah, Jackie "On Assistance" Bouvier Kennedy Onassiss is actually a good example. She had a square face that wasn't beautiful by any standard, unruly curly hair, and a figure that lacked curves when curves were in style.

She spent her adult life convincing the world that she was beautiful, she used all the hairstyling and makeup and couture and casual chic that money could buy, and it worked! She was hailed as a beauty for much of her life, even though she wasn't.

[Quote] a figure that lacked curves when curves were in style.

Disagree. Check out the top models of the time.

R299, most human beings do not consider a fashion model's figure to be the ideal of sexual appeal.

Khloe Kardashian. In 15 years she’s turned from a pale coarse featured giantess to tan, slim and approaching pretty.

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I know this is an odd segue, but Madonna's original breasts were perfect. I had several girlfriends tell me this after seeing Body of Evidence. I don't know if she had them worked on since then, but her figure in the late 80s/early 90s was sublime.

Kylie Jenner owns this thread