WHET Emma Snyder

Ironic that she worked MORE on the show when she was OFF contract, than when she was ON contract

Ain't that a kick in the cunt! Emma looks just like my next door neighbor, Rose Perini, of Bay City.

Are Rose and Emma twins?

She called Maeve Ryan a bitch on Ryan's Hope

Remember when Emma and Carly finally had it out, and Carly stormed off, only to return and tell Saintly Emma that her mashed potatoes were lumpy! That look on Emma's face!

How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW? Do you think Madonna was influenced by her?

[quote]How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW?

Hanging out with Charles Keating is likely the reason.

Am, I the only one who didn't care for her?

Anna Stuart met her now husband James Cromwell at Charles Keating Christmas party

Apparently Charles wife had played matchmaker thinking the two would be perfect for one another

She's fine.

She sends her love.

Shallow post: what's with Cynthia Watros and the duck face? She's purses her mouth constantly, or at least she did on her reunion show. Does she do this on camera when she plays her GH character? In the 90's on GL I don't remember her constantly putting her lips out there. She's always had a full mouth, but not duck pouting.

Didn’t Eileen Fulton end up in financial trouble in 2008? Something with the mortgage on her NY apartment.

Unfortunately, she’s still trying to get some more of John Dixon’s dick.

"I'm tired. SO TIRED. I'm SICK AND TIRED of being blackmailed by everybody ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!"

What the fuck was Zimmer doing winning that Emmy? Criminal that she stole it from La Hubbard.

Kathleen Widdoes - at the end of ATWT her face and neck were so swollen. I know she probably gained weight but some of that looked like the kind of swelling/gain that happens when one is unwell. I hope she is better now.

They wrote off Kathleen Widdoes weeks before the final episode. I think it was a shame they didn't have her in the final episode as she was on the show for 25 years

Holden at his hottest!

Craig at his hottest!

Iva with blond hair!

And sad news.....

You all fled my dynamic, welcoming, THRILLING thread for....Emma?

Lady of the lake - I mean, pond? That Snyder woman?

You have ALL lost your minds.

Matthew!......MATTHEW!

r17 Shut up and slice, bitch.

Happy Thanksgiving! And don't forget who got Emma's china, bitches.

^ It still looks so weird, seeing Todd Manning at the Snyder Farm.

Snyderly speaking, here are MDM and LMS.

MDM looked so much like my first boyfriend.

R20 I know many OLTL fans were pissed that he went to ATWT, since they aired at the same time in most markets. If he had gone to GL, Y&R, B&B, etc. it wouldn't have been as bad.

I was pissed because he was there at all, r22. I hated Todd Manning.

The second one, who turned out to be his twin, was HOT as fuck! I'm surprised no other soap had cast him before OLTL in 2003. He had been in the business since 1995.

Lucinda dear at r17. Your thread was a rousing good time. Too rousing it seems as the police shut it down.

Take solice, the police shut down my thread as well.

Muriel is the Mimi Torchin of DL, still pissed she didn't get to work on AMC or GL, and taking it out on soap fans ever since.

R26 Did she try Passions?

r21 Michael David Morrison and Susan Marie Snyder were electric together. His replacement was beyond bland -- but MDM was irreplaceable Wish Mr. Locher would get her on for a Snyder family reunion. Would love to hear what she has to say about working w. MDM. Anyone got any stories about him ?

Thoughts on Greg Marx?

When Kathleen Widdoes was young I thought she looked like Jean Simmons, with maybe a little bit of Audrey Hepburn from certain views.

Time is a bitch . . .

When Locher did the Santos Family Reunion did anyone ask Paul Antony Stewart how big his husband is?

[quote]Thoughts on Greg Marx?

Ah, the sexy Tom Hughes. I saw him first on DOOL and was excited when he showed up in Oakdale.

The switch to nonsexy Scott Holmes was really jarring.

R32

Whoa, honey! Who is PAS' hubby?

[quote] How did you all feel about Simm's??

Oh, dear.

Just to follow up on Eileen Fulton's fanbase from last thread...

When I did the online thing, back before someone invented the word blog, half my emails were from people wanting to see Lisa in another one of her romantic storylines. This would have been from right after the Martin Chedwyn story until I stopped doing my blog a few years later. Some ladies just adored Lisa.

R34, PAS is married to stylist Michael Cook. There was a post about their wedding in an earlier Midwestern thread. This is from some other internet forum:

[quote]Paul Stewart, 48, and Michael Cook, 32, first spotted each other through a crowd in 2010. (Paul: “It was a lesbian bar at 4 a.m. — isn’t that how we all meet our husbands?”) Five years later, Paul, an actor, proposed to Michael, a stylist and fashion editor, while they watched a meteor shower from the backyard of their Catskills house — which became the obvious choice for the wedding venue. “We spend a lot of time in the city, but this is our home,” Michael says. “Every weekend, we were mowing the paths and weeding the gardens to get it ready.” Their 50 guests gathered around a newly planted tree for the ceremony; for the reception, they followed the grooms down a path to find the caterers roasting chicken and whole lamb over a fire, the tables lined with moss. “People were traveling from all over,” Paul says. “We didn’t want to spend a minute without them.”

Just correcting something somebody posted on the last thread. JFP & Genie may not have been copacetic but Genie's biggest interpersonal problem was with Wendy Riche.

Genie has said she will never work with her again.

All the talk in the previous thread about Joe Stuart. I went to imdb and couldn't find him. There were 2 Joe Stuart's listed. One and actor & one a producer. Neither had Loving in their credits.

R38 Weird to hear that about Wendy. The show was so Lauracentric at that point, but that may have been more Claire Labine.

R39 I found him in three seconds. I am assuming you searched Joe Stuart and not Joseph Stuart.

Do you think Paul Anthony Stewart has had botox? He looks so good for nearly 50

PAS's husband needs to sit on my face. And Paul can stroke as he watches!

Kimberly Simms was the perfect Mindy. She elevated the character. The show was fucking stupid for letting her go. She had a ton of chemistry with everybody.

Losing her, Sherry Stringfield and La Bev all in the same summer during hot story lines was devastating. The show was at a peak, ratings were rising as high as #2 for a bit I believe then it was over in a flash.

The cast of General Hospital hated Joseph Stuart when ABC moved from from Loving to GH

When the show had its 7,000 episode and invited the press to a party, most of the cast BOYCOTTED the event, to send a message about their disgust towards Hardy

He barely lasted a year. GH cast was one cast you didn't push around.

Although I liked Krista's Mindy, her Mindy was more for comedic effect. I am glad she came back in the end. For the last week, I would have loved to have the originals interact with all the recasts. Judi Evans could have bumped into Beth C's Beth on the street. Elizabeth Dennehy and Sherry Stringfield could be sitting in a booth at Company as Blake walks by, stops, looks them over, and keeps walking.

R45 I had a similar idea for the ending week. Beverlee had passed away by that time but I actually thought they might close with the death of Alex (it was Alan) and I thought it would be something if every time someone walked by a photo of Alex on a mantle, it would change - from Bev to Marj to Joan.

R29 I wanted Gregg (two g's) Marx in me quite deeply.

The full article from what R37 posted is here

I did not know that Kathleen Widdoes is godmother to Kaitlin Hopkins.

Kaitlin's mother, Shirley Knight, just died not so long ago.

R40

It had nothing to do with story. The reason Genie didn't get along with Riche is because Wendy constantly berated her about her weight. She would even berate her about it on the set in front of cast & crew. Genie felt humiliated and swore she'd never work with her again.

I thought KT was perfect teenage Mindy. The 4 Musketeers meshed so well. Simms was the perfect adult Mindy: talent, scorching chemistry , beautiful. I'm glad they brought back KT for the end. Her chemistry with Clarke was unmatched.

Simms had IT. She also meshed really well with Beth C as Beth Raines though I think KT did as well.

Emma’s cheese puffs made me want to puke,

R42 Tan lines.

I’ve met PAS a few times socially. A doll. And his husband is as well. So nice.

I’ve told this story on here before. There is one of the those old grave yards somewhere near Gramercy Park. I’m talking a picture of one of the headstones and someone yells out, “ say cheese” and it’s Kathleen Widdows standing with a cane laughing. I talked her for a few minutes. Mentioned she had to be forced to kiss Jon Hensley. LOL. She was a character. Only in New York.

Kathleen’s bf back in the day was actor Richard Jordan and he was a hot piece of ass. He died way too young.

R56 Jordan was more than her bf. They were married and had a daughter whose name is Nina Jordan.

Ms. Jordan on her parents (from the attached interview):

[quote] Q. Did growing up the child of two talented and successful actors, Kathleen Widdoes and Richard Jordan, inform your art at all?

[quote] A. I was a little girl and I had these incredibly good-looking parents who were always concerned about their looks. They were both sort of vain, but they had to be. That’s the business. And I remember people asking me, Do you want to be an actress when you grow up? And I would always say No, absolutely not, even though I loved to perform. My mother was always learning songs for different musicals she was working on, and I’d learn the songs with her. I had a couple of canes, sequin tutus and top hats, and I would dance and sing all the time. I wanted to make art, but I didn’t want it to be about my looks. As a little girl, we had a coffee table book about Georgia O’Keefe, and inside it there was a beautiful photograph of O’Keefe’s craggy face. I thought, If you’re an artist, you can be really old and have a craggy face and people will think you’re beautiful. If you’re an actress, and you’re really old and have a craggy face, everybody’s going to say, Look at your old craggy face, you used to be so beautiful when you were 25. I didn’t want that! I wanted to be able to get the craggy face and have people think I’m beautiful.

Kathleen Widdoes was best friends with the late actress Shirley Knight

Which we touched on at R49

I'm in 1989 GL right now on youtube. I know we have been saying this but Michelle Forbes is beyond phenomenal. There is no way another actress was better than her from 88-89. Sonni/Solita was the most interesting character and Kim Zimmer upped her game due to MF. KZ can do anything but even she upped her game.

The build up to Beth being alive was pitch perfect. Has there ever been a better lead up to a popular character being alive after being presumed dead? The writers did this as perfect as I could imagine. They had everybody involved heavily from Roger and Sonni to Rusty and Vanessa. I loved how Michelle, Sherry and James Rehorn shared a scene. Just the 3 of them. Beth's return was done expertly.

The thing I loved is what they followed the Beth is alive story with - Phillip having to fake his death and ask....yes, India for help.

R61 But am I wrong? The Beth is alive (we all knew it of course) was very, very well done. The build up was, to me, one of the best. The writing was pitch perfect.

Oh yes, it has one of my favoritest moments, when Lillian sees Beth for the first time.

R63 I don't think it gets the kudos it deserves. The writers made sure all the details of Beth's disappearance were addressed. And the build up was really the late 80s version of edging. LOL.

Beth was the tentpole character in the 4 mustkateers story. She was very popular. Her "death" was heartbreaking for many but most knew she was not dead. The build up to her return was so well done.

[quote]But am I wrong? The Beth is alive (we all knew it of course) was very, very well done. The build up was, to me, one of the best. The writing was pitch perfect.

Pam knew how to plan out a story. And back in the 1980s, they still let stories play out slowly. None of this rushed 3 months to finish a story arc that we have now.

I met Kathleen Widdoes when we acted together on stage in New York. What a dream and wonderful friend. She came to see me in a play about 6 years ago. Our photo together sits atop the grand piano in my home. Of course, I will not have time for stage work in the near future. Re-creating the role of Katherine Chancellor on Y&R will be consuming the majority of my time.

This Scoche Marin person is basically the DL version of that woman from hoarders who jarred her own shit. She just doesn't get it.

I loved the Sonny Solita storyline. 1989 was also the time when the Dylan Lewis storyline started. I thought Morgan Englund was so good and sort of heartbreaking at the same time. Holly was back, Roger was coming back. Sherry Stringfield and Kimberly Simms came on the show. And of course the Beth returns storyline. This was the beginning of another golden age for GL.

I missed Sonny/Solita entirely. I started watching GL in 1989 when I was home to watch ATWT, which I usually taped. I realized I was also addicted to GL on the Fourth of July because my VCR died that day, and I had to go to a picnic. Fortunately, it rained, and we held the picnic indoors, and I got to watch GL at the host's apartment. There were three of us there who watched it religiously, it turned out.

I got a new VCR on the morning of July 5.

What ever happened to the million dollars Roger put in his living room safe during this Pam Long 1989/1990 period? As I recall, no further mention was made, and eventually I stopped watching.

But I'm sure one of you knows [italic]exactly[/italic] who took it out of the safe and what s/he did with it.

I don't get the weird story about Kathleen Widdoes kissing Jon Hensley.

My name is SONNI you bitches!

I assume the event of which R71 speaks had to do with the Spaulding embezzlement?

The money Roger took was Beth's ransom, right?

I'm at the episode where Beth shows up alive on the beach. Did the creepy Bruce guy know she was alive?

GL was soooooo good during 1989 to 1993.

The creepy dude that had Beth (Neil) is, shall we remember even in trying to forget, played by Billie Eyelash's real life father.

No, Bruce the art dealer trying to make Phillip believe Beth was alive. He had Dana impersonate Beth.

I vaguely remember Dana. She was very pretty.

Wasn't she killed by Chelsea Reardon's crazy stalker?

Bruce was insistent Beth was alive. I am not far enough in to know if he did actually know she was alive.

KRISTI FERRELL! WOO HOO!

OMG how the hell did he find Kristi Ferrell??!???!?!?!?!?!????

Really looking forward to the Shayne family reunion!

Wow!

Kristi!

OMFG!!!!

R72 she was just making a silly joke about kissing him. She didn't mean it literally.

Apparently Kim keeps in touch with Kristi, even after all these years. I'm guessing she talked her into this

That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.

However they may have gotten back in contact over the last several years.

That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.

However they may have gotten back in contact over the last several years.

[quote] That contradicts what has been said before by Kim - where she said the cast had lost touch with Kristi.

That is not what I read - in an interview with Soap Opera Digest she said that Kristi was living on a ranch

Where did you hear Kim say the cast lost touch with Kristi?

This was years ago, R89. Maybe around the time Kim's book came out?

R90 I read Kim's book and there was nothing about Kristi Ferrell in the book

I sourced where Kim said she kept it touch with Kristi (Soap Opera Digest) - where is your source for "The cast lost touch with Kristi"

Let it go, r91. It's really not a big deal.

[quote] It's really not a big deal.

Translation - I made it up

[quote] How come Victoria Wyndham became British in the last few years of AW?

When you're from Bay City you have to do SOMETHING.

[quote] Translation - I made it up

No. If you check you will see that the other poster isn't me. The point is that kind of bitchy snarkiness has no place in the P&G threads.

[quote] The point is that kind of bitchy snarkiness has no place in the P&G threads.

That is why ABC Soaps was number #1 in the 1980s!

You are in the wrong thread, kiddo.

R57, I sat next to Richard Jordan at a Broadway matinee performance of Bent, starring Richard Gere.

He had just been in a popular television mini-series and one frau after another kept approaching him at Intermission.

Check him out in "The Mean Season", with Kurt Russell and Mariel Hemingway.

R93 no, I didn't make it up. But I don't have an notated bibliography of every interview I've ever read or any that I have ever DONE. All I know is that for a long period of time, no one could locate Kristi Ferrell, and Kim was one of a few people that mentioned it in interviews.

You do not need to come here and be an accusatory cunt.

R96 Y&R would dispute that.

What state was Bay City supposed to be in?

Bay City was said in later years to be in IL.

[quote] Y&R would dispute that.

They didn't become number 1 until the late 80s

[quote] You do not need to come here and be an accusatory cunt.

Then don't make things up

Fuck off, R103. You are unwelcome here.

R102 Mid-80s and GL briefly kicked GH in the cunt and out of #1 in '84.

Just block the shithead.

I did, R106.

I remember them now, there was something else a few months back where they did the same thing and kept hounding someone as to "where's your source."

Kathleen Widdoes was great in the Charlotte Greer story on "Ryan's Hope" with an Irish brogue and going insane after Neil (Roy Poole) had a heart attack and died. Of course the star of that story was Judith Chapman who could have gotten an Emmy for that short term role. I'd love to find episodes of when Judith was on "As the World Turns" as one of Tom's wives, Natalie. I've found a lot of stills and articles with her from that time, but no episodes.

R107 wouldn't be protesting so much if their info wasn't "suspect"

People make things up and when they get caught, they sure get defensive.

[quote] OMG how the hell did he find Kristi Ferrell??!???!?!?!?!?!????

Wasn't too hard to find if you know the name she used when she was a Dallas Cheerleader. Scanning very quickly, the only 'friend' I saw from GL was Frank Dicopoulos.

This was one of the stories just discussed where it was repeated on multiple shows.

The Dobsons did it first on GL then on ATWT (and SB, too?)

Question for the group - if you had to sum up the "identity" of each of the soaps, what would you say? For example, DAYS has always been couple focused, action/adventure focused and over the top (at least for the last 25 years)

GL Families and couples.

GL was also home for a long time for characters. Rich characters.

(rich as in multilayered not rich as in money)

AW-class drama ATWT-Families and history GL-Multi generational complex relationships

Non P&G shows:

AMC-small town hijinks BB-English language novella DAYS-romance and camp GH-dark , mafia and international crimes OLTL-Camp mixed with social issues SB-Humor and great dialogue Y&R-pretty people moving at a glacial pace

Girls, girls, girls. These are crazy times. Coronavirus anxiety is affecting us all. Lockdowns are making us all a bit stir crazy. And that seems to be coming out in this thread today.

A reminder. The P&G threads are HAPPY threads. We make a point of getting along. We're here for a common interest -- a love of soaps, especially the P&G soaps. It's OK to disagree, but we do it nicely.

If you are having a bad day. If being cooped up at home is getting to you. If you just have to release all those frustrations somewhere, there are plenty of threads on DataLounge on which you can do so. There are many Meghan Markle threads where you will feel right at home. There are boatloads of Trump threads on which to unleash your anger. Tons of conspiracy theory threads that will welcome you with appropriate bitchiness. Please take your anger there.

r117

I remember there was something where (I think) Jack had to go knock on a door but he stood in the hallway for at least a WEEK before knocking... it took FOREVER for him to knock on that door

R119 I never understood why Y&R was so popular. Watching old episodes just proved my point. A lot of times it was boring. And the same old same old with story lines.

[quote] GH-dark , mafia and international crimes

Only for the last twenty years or so, before that it was GH-Medical Drama, espionage, romance, and business.

Thank you, Aunt Liz, for r118. We like nice here in the marvelous midwest.

r113, I'm only able to comment on two of the soaps. AW at its best was about being able to be so close to the world you wished you lived in, you could almost taste it, smell it, feel it. Throughout the history of the show, Rachel and Jake McKinnon best embodied this principle. Jake wanted so bad to be thought of as a nice guy, as a successful guy, as a cool guy, as a smart guy, as a rich guy, and he could see all the living examples of what he wanted all day every day. And he never quite made it, somehow.

Rachel was more successful at attaining the position in life she wanted, but I only started watching in 1988, so I never saw her go through the process. She had already hit her mark by the time I came around.

Scotty D best described ATWT: "the fantasy of a multi-generational family that works." I'd always liked that kind of novel. No surprise that kind of show became my favorite. Until they ruined it after Douglas Marland died.

[quote]Y&R-pretty people moving at a glacial pace

Back when I was a kid, Bill Bell was writing Days. In the mid 70s, pre-VCRs, the only way to catch soaps was to see them live. Since Days aired at 2 p.m., I only got to see it during the summer and at Christmas holidays. Or if I was home sick from school.

One time when I was sick, Days was climaxing a storyline with Mickey Horton finding out Mike was not his biological son and was having a breakdown in the sanitarium. Bill Bell's stories moved slow, but he also knew how to keep you hooked. You just kept watching because the payoff was also spectacular when it FINALLY came.

Anyway, I had some illness, so was home sick on a Monday and a Tuesday when this storyline was climaxing. But as I said, it was happening very slowly. I was well enough to go back to school on Wednesday, but feigned continued illness so I could see the climax. When it did't come on Wednesday, I continued playing sick on Thursday and Friday so I could stay home to watch Days.

Of course, the climax didn't come that Friday. I had to return to school the following Monday. But my mother kept me updated on what was happening on Days. The storyline didn't have that spectacularly satisfying, worth-the-wait climax episode for another month!!!

[quote]Jake wanted so bad to be thought of as a nice guy, as a successful guy, as a cool guy, as a smart guy, as a rich guy, and he could see all the living examples of what he wanted all day every day. And he never quite made it, somehow.

Fantastic summation of the Jake character!! I'd never thought of Jake in quite those terms, but that really was what he was all about! Bravo!!

I just tried to watch the Locher Room with Dr. Bob, Kim and Andy but the sound quality was so poor that I gave up after a while. Maybe Alan needs to not do these live but instead record them after they get the sound working right. Is there a good reason it has to be live?

r124 Thanks, Aunt Liz. Jake was my favorite character on AW. I was never able to believe he would rape Marley.

I also wish Alan would do what Stars in the House does and posts highlights of interviews.

Thank you to everyone who has posted on these P&G threads, you made my day! I just spent the last two hours catching up on all the gossip (this thread and the previous); old soaps and their devotees are my lifeline.

I suppose you all know, but, Kathleen Widdoes and Shirley Knight were in "The Group" along with Candice Bergen and Jessica Walter. The book and the movie are a must for any true DLer!

Of course I was in “The Group” too. I miss those gals, but they are all looking forward to my debut as Katherine Chancellor on THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS on CBS.

May I have the address of the Scoche Marin troll. There’s a special music box I want to send her.

R131 Just block it. I did.

R131 Mrs. Piper, may I pay the postage for that package? It would be my honor.

As long as The Group is played on TCM Emma will be eternal. She will be noticed outside of the soap opera ghetto by film.queens that will cherish her forever.

I don't know how GL didn't win best show in either 90, 91, 92 or 93. It only won writing in 90. The show was on fire during this time. There are so many great stories going on. From summer 88 to summer 93 was a true peak. The one thing I have not liked was Sam being crippled. I hate when soaps make people blind or crippled. It is soooo boring. Amnesia is fun, though.

Zimmer's emmy reel scenes were outstanding. She did beautifully playing that.

R135 1990 was the end of Santa Barbara's three-year run. We never watched it, but from what I've seen on youtube, I don't know how it kept winning. 1991 the winner was ATWT which was in the middle of Marland's run as HW so you can't argue with them winning. 1992 AMC won, which was during Megan McTavish's storied run with Agnes Nixon, so again you can't fault it. 1993 was Y&R; it was a good year for them but it wasn't the greatest. To me it is a shame that GL only won three times, and had to share one of them with Y&R, and OLTL only won once. While some other shows have a lot more. B&B and SB should not have the same number of Outstanding Drama Emmy's as GL and more than OLTL. Especially since B&B's wins didn't have to wait for the current four soap period, and it has NEVER been the best soap on the air. At least some of Y&R, GH, and DAYS' wins can be chalked up to the less competition over the last decade. Looking at what shows have the most Emmys just tells me they are largely a joke, when it comes to actually quality.

Santa Barbara won because of Patrick Mulcahy’s dialogue. A lot of JFP’s worst instincts got their start here:

1.) The dark look; 2.) The gutting of traditional soap pillars, like having multiple generations and core families on the canvas, to instead focus on a small group of younger, sexy characters and 1 or 2 characters over 40; 3.) The misogynistic treatment of woman (Eden Capwell was raped by her OBGYN).

What it did have, however, was amazingly crisp, sharp dialogue that was witty and sophisticated. It’s something he brought to GL during its early 90s renaissance.

R138 then by all means they could receive the writing awards, but I don’t think they ever were the most outstanding all around soap.

I think if you weren’t a huge soap fan who kept up with all the shows,r139, SB seemed refreshing and different. The problem is what made SB unique is also antithetical to good soap opera , and eventually Mulcahy’s scripts couldn’t mask that any longer.

When they won the second Emmy for Best Show, there were maybe 15 contract players, on an hour long soap, and at 1/3 off them were barely used. Compare that to ATWT in 1989 which probably had 40 contract players and multiple characters and stories.

If you didn’t watch soaps regularly a good episode of SB seemed modern and like a breath of fresh air. I’m guessing their votes came from the folks who didn’t watch soaps or thought the medium was low brow.

A lot of the hacks that ruined shows in the 90s and 2000s got their start in daytime here or worked for several years on SB -Chuck Pratt, JFP, Robert Guza....

R139 I just never really watched NBC soaps, other than Sunset Beach later on because the first half didn’t air opposite other soaps. I watched all the CBS and ABC soaps.

Sorry I meant R140. Also it is strange you said what you did because I was a child at the time, and I tried watching Santa Barbara a few times and rather than sophisticated it seemed cartoonish, so I didn’t watch it. Especially compared to GL and GH which aired opposite it.

That's a stunning shot of Kathleen Widdoes at r68!

I just read upthread that Kathleen was married to Richard Jordan. That surprised me. Remember when TV started doing mini-series like Rich Man Poor Man? He was in a wonderful one called Captain & Kings.

I remember he was in a longterm relationship with his co-star Blair Brown. After reading the post that he was Kathleen's ex I googled him. I am stunned to learn he had another longterm relationship after Blair and it was none other than Marcia Cross.

WTF??? How did I not know this? Their relationship lasted until his death.

r138, did Timothy Gibbs' character actually rape Nancy Lee Grahn's character on Santa Barbara? Or was he falsely accused? I remember clicking to NBC during commercials on GL when I watched IRT, but I never saw enough episodes to follow the plot completely. But I do remember that gorgeous environmentalist he played, Dash something, who sat in jail in a denim work shirt for what felt like months.

Ironically, Carrie Nye (Susan Piper, later Caroline Carruthers, "GL") is in "The Group", a smaller role as the class outcast, basically a free spirit who doesn't follow social norms. Sort of like the Tallulah Bankhead type roles she later played, including "The Scarlet O'Hara Wars" as the great Ms. B. for which she got an Emmy Nomination.

GL deserved to win one of those years. This may have been in the middle of Marland's reign but it was also in the middle of Long and Curlee's reign. GL moved quick yet you were able to sample your story with what felt like enough time. Even in 88/89, there were so many characters used and some in surprising ways like Sonni and Roger teaming up with Rusty to investigate Beth's return. Roger and Beth's returns, Holly and Blake coming on the canvas, Reva/Sonni/Josh then Will/Mindy. Even the recasts were great. GL had plenty of humor during this time.

A large part of Santa Barbara's appeal was its cast. TPTB knew how to snap up talent and give them fun material to play with. Clearly the producers had money to offer and were willing to sign actors for the short stints they find appealing.

Of course A Martinez and Marcy Walker...but also Lane Davies, Justin Deas, Robin Mattson, Louise Sorel, Nicolas Coster, Jed Allan, Judith McConnell, Roscoe Born, Robin Wright, Harley Kozak, Dame Judith Anderson, etc. When SB went off the air, the cast included soap royalty Kim Zimmer, Thaao Penghlis, Krist Tesreau, Jack Wagner, Eileen Davidson, Charles Grant, Gordon Thomson and Sydney Penny.

Brilliant actors can make any material shine and the SB cast did.

R140 Interesting that all those hacks were at SB. I had no idea.

r144 Richard Jordan seems to me like the kind of man who chewed up his female partners and then spat them out after he had sucked the youth out of them.

SB was up against titans GL and GH. It didn't stand a chance.

R138

Patrick Mulcahey is such an enigma to me. He is one of the greatest scriptwriters ever in the genre. He can write truly beautiful, emotional and/or heart shattering dialogue. I am still dumbfounded that he is into hard core (very hard core) S&M. The two things just don't compute to me.

It also doesn't compute to me that he spent the end of his career writing for such a schlocky garbage show as B&B. Any of the shows would have bent over backwards to have him but he chose to write for the worst. After all the amazing work he did in his career I just don't understand that choice.

SB's biggest issue at the beginning was that they kept recasting.

After things settled, they had the same issue GL would later have with CBS - less than 70 percent of local affiliates would show it in the time slot (if at all). Also what killed Ryan's Hope.

R138 - how do you know he's into S&M?

Wanting to work at B&B in his twilight years isn't shocking - B&B is 30 minutes (less work) and given its quality makes an episode of 90 Day Fiance seem like film noir - its easy, dependable cash.

r154

I want to say he did an article for advocate or some other gay magazine

R154 That's been well known for years.

R155 Remember, we need our SOURCES or some queen will hiss at us all. And unlike Digest and Weekly, which are not archived or notated anywhere on line, info about Mulcahey's BDSM/leather activities are easily found with a search.

There are additional sources, search "Patrick Mulcahey leather" and pages show up.

I know he used to talk about it some on his Twitter page, and had a partner or slave who was also named Patrick (but usually written as patrick, if I recall, to indicate his beta standing to alpha Patrick.)

He's also apparently speaking at a master/slave confrence in Washington DC on Labor Day Weekend.

In searching for Mulcahey I found this article, which makes a claim I have *never* heard before....

That the Dobsons were considered for a return to GL in 1995.

Whaaaat?

(Didn't JFP and the Dobsons have a falling out or never fell in?)

Mulcahey married his "slave" and yes his name is also patrick.

Another enigma about him is after decades of living in San Francisco he & his hubby have moved to a teeny tiny town in Washington. Population less than 1000. What the hell?

r159's article is intriguing. I also never heard rumors of the Dobsons returning to GL in 1995. But then much of what the article reported did not come to pass.

But if the Dobsons were considering becoming GL HWs again, that may explain why JFP was fired from GL. I can't imagine the Dobsons working with her again, so her ouster may have been a pre-requisite for their coming aboard.

As for the rumor that A Martinez was coming to GL, that's only natural since Marcy Walker was already there collecting a high salary to do nothing.

Wonder why Laura Wright isn't being included in the Shayne family reunion.

A return of the Dobsons to GL would have been amazing . They loved GL and a lot of the characters that were front burner during their tenure in the 70s were still front burner.

Lets be real- they were probably going to return but the network was the issue. TPTB did not want GL to succeed.

I still think SB going against a resurgent GL and GH was never going to work. Every person I knew were either a GL or GH person, some both. I don't think I had ever met a SB person. If GL had not gotten its act together after 86/87, it might have made a move. I think GH was in a slump during GL's resurgence but they had hard core watchers.

The thing that knocked GL down is the thing that always made it slip up every time - when Luke and Laura came back they thought "we have to compete and do something special."

And it never worked. They should have just been the best GL they could be. But the last 20-25 years of both ATWT and GL were about people behind the scenes wanting them to be anything and everything other than the things they already were, beautifully.

What is shocking about GL's Golden 88-93 era was the ratings kept crashing. It only went up by a little in 91-92 season going top 5 but mainly because the others shows started crashing with GH having a huge ratings drop.

That was also when soaps really started to lose numbers big time, even before OJ.

At that point, it was mostly talk shows that were blamed for the fall.

Did Reva and Roger ever have a story together or significant screen time?

Roger got Reva drunk and took dirty photos of her in 1989 or 1990.

Billy somehow came to the rescue, tricking Roger somehow into burning an envelope with oil leases (?) but that really contained the dirty photos.

Kim on Zaslow from her book:

Michael’s return to Guiding Light reminded me of the scene in the movie Soapdish where Whoopi Goldberg’s character reminds the producers of her show that they can’t bring back Kevin Klein’s character because he had been decapitated. Their response was to give his character the very first successful head transplant. Miracle of miracles, he was now alive and well and being written back into their show! Michael’s return to Guiding Light was a textbook soap opera move, in that there was no possible way he could have survived his fall off the rocky cliff—but he did. You see? No one’s ever really dead in Soap Land! Michael was a force to be reckoned with and was very opinionated. In other words, he didn’t take shit from anyone. If he didn’t like something, he’d let you know. Michael didn’t care if he hurt someone’s feelings or stepped on toes. He knew who his character was and fought for Roger with everything he had. If a scene was written that made his character any less than who Michael thought he was, Michael would pitch a royal fit until it was fixed to his satisfaction.

I can't believe that Signey Coleman, mousy Hope from Y&R, took over Annie Dutton from Cynthia Watros, on GL. I had forgotten it completely; I must have blocked it out.

Signey Coleman is one of the least charismatic actors to every appear on a soap, rivaling AW's William Grey Espy. Zero energy, lots of staring.

R173 Exactly, that must be why I blocked it out. I hated her on Y&R. Whatever one may think about Melody Thomas Scott as Nikki, on Y&R, she does have charisma and presence. I kept wanting Nikki to snap and start slapping her around. If she couldn't hold her own against MTS, why did anyone think she could against Kim Zimmer.

[quote] I can't believe that Signey Coleman, mousy Hope from Y&R, took over Annie Dutton from Cynthia Watros, on GL.

That was one of those stories that you could tell someone changed along the way. I don't think Coleman was hired to be Annie, but they kept going for weird hyped stories after the clone thing, so they changed it from "Teri DeMarco" to her being Annie. And she didn't sell it at all, nor did Zimmer and Newman seem to be very welcoming in scenes with her.

Although her holding up a picture of Cynthia Watros in front of her face and saying "Jarsh!" was sort of funny.

Signy always reminded me of Renee Zellweger, for some reason.

Hopeless was such a blah character, and really quite the self-righteous beyotch ordering Victor to stay away and have nothing to do with raising HER son.

I worked at Gelsons Market in Pacific Palisades when I was going to UCLA in the 90s and Signy Coleman came in all the time while she was playing Hope. She was a nasty bitch and very condescending. She yelled at her husband a lot in the store .

R178 Vincent Irizarry or the other one?

Signy had some of the worst cosmetic surgery ever. It was really pretty shocking to see on camera, and much worse than this air-brushed photo.

In a lengthy interview with Soap Opera Digest - Patrick Mulcahey said the killing off of Maureen Bauer was the right thing to do, as her death spun all the characters into new storylines they would never be in if it were not for Maureen getting killed off

The only thing he disagreed with was the firing of Rachel Miner (Michelle) to age the character, He said her acting was second to none, and they should have kept Miner for that reason.

Here’s s cleaned up version of the excellent Ladies of Loving reunion.

Signy Coleman was no Cynthia Watros, but I thought she did a decent job on Y&R as Hope. I'm not saying she was fantastic on Y&R. but she was decent. Remember this is the she show that kept people like J. Eddie Peck, Brenda Epperson , Shari Shattuck and Don Diamont on contract for ages, so great acting was never a major requirement.

I did think Maureen was a bit boring and dowdy. However, the way they wrote that story and her death made me realize how important she was. I totally took her for granted. I wish they had "killed" her off as they did Beth and Roger. Not at all.

Signey Coleman. Wow what a terrible idea. All the way around. Just recast and move on but not with plastic surgery Annie.

[quote] J. Eddie Peck, Brenda Epperson , Shari Shattuck and Don Diamont on contract for ages, so great acting was never a major requirement.

But, they were good-looking and fun, she was neither.

[quote] However, the way they wrote that story and her death made me realize how important she wa

That is exactly the same thing Jill Farren Phelps said -

JFP saying the ONLY reason why there was such outcry is that the episodes leading up to her death, made the audience care more about the character than they did BEFORE hand. JFP saying that is what they did "wrong" in killing off that character

If they had to do it all over again, they would just send her on an out of town trip, and die off-screen in a plane crash. Then that way the audience wouldn't be that invested.

r186 Well she's right but they should have written her that way, and all of them, the entire time. So she is admitting they should have written characters to make the audience invested in them. Hmmm what a revelation there Jill (Marian).

And R186, I would have felt regret with her dying either way. That's what I am saying. But the way they wrote the ending was a gut punch for the ages. I swear the song at the end with the montage is what really got most people.

The biggest IRONY about the killing off of Maureen is that it nabbed Ellen Parker an Emmy and those episodes won Guiding Light the Best Writing Emmy Award

Which was the ONLY Emmy James Reilly (Days of our Lives & Passions) won for writing -

Anyone know why Roger Howarth joined the cast of ATWT?

Also, did he really have an affair with Marie Wilson?

R190 Well, he liked eating and living indoors, so a paycheck came in handy.

Supposedly he was over playing a rapist.

And yes.

Just watched the 1993 Daytime Emmys to see Ellen Parker's win. GL had a shit ton of acting noms, many times two per category. Also won Best Writing. Should have won Best Show. Fun to see Nancy Curlee. Why did you leave us????? Why didn't you come back????

Saying Mo would have been less missed if she had just been killed in a plane crash is bull.

She was the Bert character, though the show never really seemed to get that.

Head writing is really a burnout job, especially for an hour show.

I'm surprised Marland was able to do it as long as he did at ATWT, or that Lemay did a year of 90 minutes a day!

Didn't Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon do it forever, though? We needed Nancy to stay or Pam to come back. Or both again. Pam got certain characters (like Beth and Reva) while Nancy got others (like Alan Michael, Mindy, Ross).

R195 I think it is different, if you created the show. It is harder to come in and continue a never-ending story that you didn't create. That is why so many head writers come in and want to get rid of established characters and create new families.

Nancy Curlee was a fan of GL since she was 12.

Bill did it well when it was a half hour and he wanted it to stay that way. He was able to continue when Y&R was an hour because he had a great right hand helper (Kay Alden).

Agnes was the same. Easier to do solo at 30 minutes, but you need help at an hour. Aggie trained a few people (Washam, McTavish) but the only one who ever seemed to really get her vibe and/or respect it was Lorraine Broderick.

Being a head writer is not that difficult

What is difficult is getting network approval. Everything has to be approved. It is worse for a P&G head writer because not only do you need network approval, you need P&G approval - so that is two layers of approval you need to get past.

You can have the most brilliant long-term story bible, but as the years wore on, the network wanted everything "focus grouped" and leaned more to "big events" like fires, explosions, floods.

Though Agnes Nixon created AMC, she sold the show to ABC and had to get network approval, despite her track record. In the late 90s, she just got fed up and quit.

The reason Bill Bell & Douglas Marland lasted so long is that they had creative control. Bell in particular - he told the network what stories he was going to do. He didn't need anything approved he ran the show.

Same with Marland. before he consented to head write again, he insisted on total creative control. Nowadays you don't have that anymore.

R199 I wonder if FV has that at DAYS? He doesn't seem to get much push back about his story choices.

R179 Coleman played Hopeless on Y&R from 1993-97, which was after she and Irizarry had divorced (1992), yet before she was married to #2 (1999-2006). She did appear once in a blue moon until they killed her character off (2008). At that point, they had her in a death bed for about a week.

R201 Sorry, I didn't notice where you said it was while she was playing Hope.

GL could have begged Nancy or Pam back. Or both. It seems they almost got the Dobsons back. Though I never watched the Dobson's GL, I feel I know it from you all. I wonder what they would have done? Did anybody say why they think it fell through? If they were looking to get them back, they could have tried for Nancy or Pam but if the network was a bunch of assholes I can see why they didn't.

R203 Pam quit GL for the same reason Agnes Nixon quit AMC in the late 90s. Pam was just tried of dealing with both P&G & CBS second-guessing her long term story outlines

towards the end Pam wanted to bring Kim Zimmer back for a one-day guest spot at Christmas time as a vision to 6 year-old Marah

The network said NO - then the final straw was Pam idea to slowly integrate a new family into the show that was Jewish. At the time "thirtysomething" was all the rage and Pam envisioned a Jewish Michael Steadman type character, and then slowly bring in other members of the family (think how the Coopers were expanded)

The network fought Pam on that one, so that was the final straw and she quit.

[quote]I wonder if FV has that at DAYS? He doesn't seem to get much push back about his story choices.

You're confusing EP Frank Valentini with HW Ron Carlivati.

Frank is EP of GH. Ron was HW of GH, then moved over to Days.

I don't think Ron has total creative control, but he certainly has much greater autonomy at Days than he did at GH. It's obvious many of his stories at GH suffered from network interference, So, Ron likely has that autonomy written into his Days contract.

Marland certainly had it total creative control written into his contract when he was at ATWT. Before that, he may not have had creative control, but he clearly had a exit clause written in. He twice bolted from shows with virtually no notice -- GH in 1979 and GL in 1982.

R205 in terms of GH Marland and Gloria Monty couldn't stand one another, so in that case he was allowed to quit with no notice

On GL he made it clear he was going to fulfill his contract and then leave, after they dumped his friend Jane Elliot

All the good headwriters didn't seem to want to come back to daytime, I think because of dealing with the networks was such a hassel

And in late 90s and 2000s we were stuck with mediocre head writers like Dena Higley, who just wind up going from show to show.

Every daytime actor has said the same thing - if only the long term story and writing were top notch, the ratings wouldn't have slid that much.

R205 Sorry I meant RC. I get them confused because they were a team for so long.

You would think that the networks would learn from the fact that when they interfere with the shows, the shows suffer and when they don't the shows do better.

[quote]On GL he made it clear he was going to fulfill his contract and then leave, after they dumped his friend Jane Elliot

Malrand must have had a weird contract cycle. His first scripts aired in early Jan 1980. His final scripts ran in mid Sept 1982. Most HWs would have had a one year, two year or three year contract, so Marland leaving after two years and nine months seems bizarre.

Ahh, I just checked. Marland left GH in August 1979. He likely was immediately hired by GL to be HW but spent a few months watching the show and writing his Bible before his scripts started airing in Jan. 1980. So, his contract probably ran Sept. 1979 to Sept. 1982. That explains it.

I thought he was at ATWT immediately after GH, for a few months-he wrote the Willows story for Lisa.

I watched a couple of the Episodes of the Willows story on You Tube. There seemed to have been an intention to do some sort of story involving Penny-Nancy, Bob and Chris mention getting a mysterious message from Penny in London. Wonder what that was about .

R210 yes. According to Wikipedia P&G asked him to do a temp job on ATWT for 13 weeks, between the previous head writers and the Dobsons, with which he swapped. I guess they wanted to finish out their GL stories before moving.

R202 Perhaps I should have clarified this, and or tagged the post where that was stated, but I didn't write R178.

R205

Ron does not have creative control at DAYS. Alan Alarr has more creative control & he has nixed so much.

Did anyone watch last night's The Story of Soaps? It was quite good.

EZ told a story about a "very big Hollywood star" who was doing OLTL and they asked to be let out of their contract because they couldn't handle the speed & massive amounts of memorization.

Any idea who she was speaking of? I know that's why Joan Collins left GL but I didn't know it also happened on OLTL.

I don't know who Vickie Sleestak was talking about, but it reminded me of GL's other example of that genre: Keir Dullea. And ATWT had another bolter of that type in Robert Vaughn.

[quote]Being a head writer is not that difficult

I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not. It takes a special kind of person to write/guide a never-ending story for 20 to 40 characters for 250 episodes a year.

Why did the Dobsons leave GL?

Did that Story of Soaps have any GL mention? If so, what did they mention? Or was it just a masterbation of ABC and some NBC soaps? I know this aired on ABC but they should call it "The story of ABC soaps with some NBC thrown in" otherwise it isn't fair. AMC and OLTL have been long canceled. GL and ATWT dominated ratings for decades and ran longer.

r215

Watched Story of Soaps. Surprised ABC allowed the show to (rightfully) criticize the network. First with Luke's rape of Laura — this segment and the AIDS segment offered a depth the rest of the series did not. And finally, with the criticism of ABC's cancellation of OLTL and ABC. La Lucci and Carol Burnett called the network out and the huge fan backlash / picketing was featured. Wondering if the network is reconsidering its decision.

Didn’t need to see Andy Cohen comparing his Real Housewives to our soaps. That’s like comparing caviar to dog food.

Seemed like after ABC, NBC got slightly more time than CBS…not a lot from the P&G soaps.

R14 Kathleen and her husband live near me. Saw them on the street before the current lock down, She was in good spirits. Mentioned to her that the Brooklyn studio is now a self-storage.

r218 Both OLTL and AMC had very low ratings. What was controversial? When ratings are so low for the remaining shows why would they consider bringing back these long canceled shows? Of course they masterbated over their own fucking shows trying to elevate them with the implication being the others are lesser. CBS needs to counter this shit and NOT mention ABC shows. It needs to be titled: "Daytime dramas- How they transformed America." Don't even mention that fucking Luke and Laura bullshit. Fuck them.

[quote] I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not.

Being a dialogue writer is 10 times more difficult than being a head writer

And Irna Phillips wrote everything BY HAND - then she would dictate to a typist.

[quote] EZ told a story about a "very big Hollywood star" who was doing OLTL and they asked to be let out of their contract because they couldn't handle the speed & massive amounts of memorization.

Farley Granger - he actually had a nervous breakdown on the set and that was his last day. Irony is that he got an Emmy nomination for his work on OLTL

Decade later he went to ATWT, but this time his long-time partner (producer Robert Calhoun) was Executive Producer and the feeling was Calhoun could help Granger with the memorization. But it was still a problem and Granger left, this time much more gracefully.

Granger would pop back in from time to time, TPTB making sure his lines were limited and easy to memorize. Then they killed the character off, leaving Lisa a widow once again.

Farley Granger? Never heard of this person. A "Very big Hollywood star?"

[quote] Never heard of this person.

That's a reflection on you, not him.

[quote] I disagree with that statement. Being a television writer is a hard job, being a soap writer is hard times ten and thankless -- autonomy or not.

when Michael Malone (OLTL) presented his long-term story bible to the network he storyboarded everything! After the presentation the head ABC Daytime told him he had enough material for TEN YEARS let along one year.

Telling Malone SLOW DOWN the speed of his original stories were too fast and needed to be at pace for a day to day show.

R224 A "Very Big Hollywood" star wouldn't or shouldn't be someone I would have to google.

Last night's Story of Soaps was fairly good. The history of soaps involves a lot of material to incorporate into two hours, so everything couldn't possibly be covered. They got a few of the facts wrong too. I'd give it a rating of B or three stars.

Overall, I enjoyed it. Nice little trip down memory lane. I especially enjoyed the discussion of the Luke and Laura rape. Nice to see a frank discussion of that. Glad they showed the clip of that rape scene (including the Herb Alpert "Rise" song which played when that scene aired in 1979).

Yes, the show was ABC heavy, but we knew it would be. In addition, Days, Y&R and B&B got a little screen time, as did the P&G soaps. No mention or clips from Santa Barbara, Sunset Beach, Passions, Capitol, Love of Life. or Secret Storm. Likewise, no Ryans Hope that I saw which was surprising given that ABC owns Ryans Hope.

Also no mention of Peyton Place, the original nighttime soap. Show specifically said Dallas was the original nighttime soap, which is incorrect. Likewise, no clips of Falcon Crest, Knots Landing, Melrose Place or 90210.

As for P&G, there were a few clips show from AW and ATWT, but all were without any audio, just the video. The only GL clips I recall seeing did have audio with a few lines of dialogue -- Roger demanding sex from Holly and Reva confronting her clone. Also no mention of Edge of Night, although there was footage of Sharon Gabet at a fan event. There was however, a quick little tribute to Mary Stuart of Search for Tomorrow, which was nice.

I have to wonder if the show had to pay for use of the clips of those non ABC shows, which may have factored into why so few were used. Show likely got to use the ABC clips for free.

Still on you, r226. A star of a Hitchcock movie is a very big Hollywood star.

R227 CBS should counter. It was a deliberate attempt to make it seem ABC shows were more important.

R226 I cannot believe that a gay man doesn't know Farley Granger!

R230 How do you know I'm a man? (I am).

Good lord he was from the 40s and 50s. I was born in the 80s.

[quote]Being a dialogue writer is 10 times more difficult than being a head writer

I respectfully disagree with this as well. The breakdown guides the script writer. It takes talent to write good dialogue, but they have help via the breakdown. And the reason why I will always say HWing a soap is a hard job because the job involves so much more than story creation.

[quote] CBS should counter. It was a deliberate attempt to make it seem ABC shows were more important.

There are a ton of reasons why it was light on CBS. Maybe CBS didn't want to cooperate fully with the special.

I was wrong, the show did include Melrose Place clips. Sorry.

So much material to take in, I'll need to rewatch it.

Judi Evans is hospitalized after a serious horseback riding accident.

She broke her collar bone, fractured 7 ribs, 2 vertebrae and has a collapsed lung.

[quote] It takes talent to write good dialogue, but they have help via the breakdown.

Every soap actor has said the same thing - they would NEVER want to be a dialogue writer for all the diamonds in the world

Head writer - soap actors would consider, but dialogue writer? Never. Because they know it is ten times harder. So they would know.

[quote] Judi Evans is hospitalized after a serious horseback riding accident. She broke her collar bone, fractured 7 ribs, 2 vertebrae and has a collapsed lung.

Poor Judi, first her husband dies. Now this.

[quote]Poor Judi, first her husband dies. Now this.

Her son Austin died back in December. As far as I know, her husband is still alive.

R236 Her son died, not her husband. But yes, she's had an awful time of it lately.

R236

It was her son that died not her husband

A breakdown doesn’t just guide. I only know from Marland’s breakdowns, but they say things like, “Lily tells Holden she doesn’t understand why he’s been avoiding her. He hesitates, then admits it’s been hard being around her, as he still has feelings for her and can’t bear seeing her with someone else.” It’s all very specific. Frankly, his breakdown and script writers were more typists than writers.

R236 here - yes sorry meant to say her son, not her husband.

On top of all of this, she found out through the media her character Adrienne got killed off Days

MVJ was not happy with last night's special revisiting the Luke/Laura rape and Liz's rape being the catalyst. She said they should have interviewed her for the trut of what went down.

I really wish she'd write a memoir.

Different head writers will have different levels of involvement.

Harding Lemay wrote every word. Marland mapped out a lot.

Some only hit the main points and then let the breakdown writers do more of the pacing.

R232 That is speculative but I know ABC and it was deliberate. They want their shows and esp GH to be deified.

That is very sad about Judi. I hope she is ok. What a terrible time she's had lately.

I haven't seen the special yet (recorded it to watch today) but the feedback I see on social media is

(a) It was a special for the masses, not for soap fans

and

(b) it started OK but went off into BS like Andy Cohen at the end.

PBS really needs to do a more complete look at the genre.

That's how I feel about it R245. When Andy Cohen showed up, I knew this thing wasn't about traditional daytime serials.

r245 Yes, a station who does not have a stake in making one show or a group of shows seem more important. ABC has an agenda. Sorry guys, it just chapped my ass about ABC. I'm on a tangent and I will stop.

PBS or Ken Burns doing a special would be heaven.

Compare this to 50 Years of Soaps, also on network TV, and you can see how short this one fell.

I know attempts have been made to pitch such a show to PBS but nothing materialized.

[quote] I know attempts have been made to pitch such a show to PBS but nothing materialized.

Clip clearances would be a major headache

These people managed to do it.

So CBS did it and it was very even handed even opening with an ABC soap. The first hosts were from all three networks. ABC would never and has never.

[quote] So CBS did it

Yes but back then it was free publicity - you would need ABC, Televest (P&G) and Columbia (Days, Y&R, B&B) to let researchers go through their vaults.

There is no reason for those companies to lift a finger for PBS

I knew last night's show was doomed to fail when the EP of the show was doing press for it. She stated she is not a fan of soaps and never has been. No, shit! It was so apparent.

Off topic, but I still can't understand why one of these nostalgia channels hasn't jumped on the old daytime soap bandwagon like Retro has done with The Doctors. I understand music rights in the 80s are a thing, but I think there are creative ways around that. I just hate that there is all this programming that is being ignored.

I don't understand why everyone is giving Andy Cohen shit for saying "I think reality TV replaced soaps" (other than the fact that he's an annoying narcissist).

The reality is, for the MAJORITY of Americans (not die hard or "lean in" fans, like myself) the pillars that soaps offered - female centric stories, an endless supply of "what happens next," emotionally driven tales and something that (primarily women) can "own" as their own - are also offered by reality TV. In the grand scheme of American history, the latter is shinier and, because of the cheap cost, more prolific. So, for the vast majority of people (casual viewers), it has filled the need that daytime soaps once did. Couple this with technological and habit changes (working outside the home, etc) and boom.

His statement wasn't nuts. He's a narcissist though.

R256 I agree. There's a reason why MTV's Real World was spearheaded by Mary-Ellis Bunim.

R250 I don't think it would be quite the nightmare you'd think. I would assume all three networks would see inclusion in a PBS show as a badge of honor.

The bigger challenge is to convince PBS it's worth doing, and to have someone who can do a take on all of it that covers history and nails all the academic parts, but also gets to the heart of why the soaps resonate.

It would also be hard to show clips out of context, so any clip shown where there's serious dramatic action (e.g. Karen Wolek on the stand, Reva in the fountain) would have to have some introduction to them.

Soaps should have gone back to 30 minutes in all honesty. GL and ATWT would be on the air today if they'd done that. Ditto those canceled ABC shows.

R259 Creatively and cost effectively, yes, agree 100 percent.

But we always look at these shows with our hearts and our eyes and ears. The companies that produce them only saw them as money generating bumpers between ads they sold, and when they stopped shitting out tons of money, off they went.

[quote] Off topic, but I still can't understand why one of these nostalgia channels hasn't jumped on the old daytime soap bandwagon like Retro has done with The Doctors

The Doctors was owned by Colgate-Palmolive so the ownership rights are easy to get.

ABC & P&G are quite content to let their library of soaps sit in a vault collecting dust. They see no reason to release any of their library, and even if they did the return would be minimal, so what is the point?

[quote] I would assume all three networks would see inclusion in a PBS show as a badge of honor.

They see soaps as shit, why would we waste our time on such a shitty industry? The executives still feel that way. Hell, they would allow clip clearances for game shows as in their minds, that is more prestigious than a soap.

Is that Kathleen Widdoes? I thought that it was Bob Hoskins at first.

[quote] Both OLTL and AMC had very low ratings. What was controversial?

With OLTL, it was especially controversial because by the time it ended it was the highest rated soap on ABC and was, along with DAYS, the only soap to have gained year-to-year viewers. Not to mention they were presenting the most compelling soap they had in years, they were really in a renaissance. Even today the soaps, which are cheaper to produce, have as high ratings as some more expensive primetime shows, which get renewed.

Even GL, in its last several years, was STILL MAKING MONEY.

They didn't cancel them because they were losing money.....they cancelled them because they weren't making enough profit for their liking.

R265 Exactly. The problem GL and ATWT had, was that P&G was the middle man. And they wanted out of the business. What was egregious about ABC is there was no middle man.

R264 They will never cancel GH until it passes GL for the longest running show but even then, it is their marquee show ONLY because of the 80s boom. They will cling to it until only 5 people watch which it isn't far from.

GL was improving in its last year as well. They were finally writing characters as they should have been written (Beth for one). Phillip was back. Things were heating up. There should have been more of an uproar but I think there was a bit of shock when they actually pulled the plug. We all knew once they did it to GL, they were going after others. Had GL improved 6 months sooner it miiiiight have saved it some time.

R267 Part of the problem with GL, was that many fans hated the production changes so much, that it didn't matter how much better the writing had become. I knew some longtime fans who said they were prepared to let it go, rather than to see what it had become. I wasn't one of them, though I hated most of the changes, I would put up with them to still have GL. I fully agree the show was getting much better.

At the end the production changes were much less noticeable. It was definitely a bumpy transition but it WAS getting better.

R268 Production values were improving as well. They were terrible in the beginning. They have some stunning outdoor scenes towards the end.

Yes, once GL was canned I knew ATWT, AMC and possibly DAYS or GH would go. I knew two would go for sure since GL was not much lower than 3 or 4 others. Ratings were fairly close.

R270 That was part of the problem. They were improving but many people had already abandoned the show. I know people who had stopped because they hated the changes but then tuned in for the last few weeks and loved it. They said if it had been like that from the beginning of the changes they never would have stopped.

I was one who stopped watching due to character assassination. It just went too far. This was 2005 and I never ever thought I'd stop watching the show. I tuned in to see the production changes and wow were they terrible in the beginning. Terrible. But by late 08/early 2009 things were much improved all around. I enjoyed the show for the first time in ages.

When I saw the Peapack Spaulding Mansion, I just couldn't do it. They could have been doing Shakespeare and I would not have been able to deal with it.

You might say P&G wanted out of soaps, but affiliates were telling the network they didn't want to air soaps anymore

Guiding Light was only available in 75% of the country - affiliates were NOT making money on soaps, and they could have made MORE money airing talk shows.

So not only did P&G want out,. CBS affiliates wanted out as well. It was only a matter of time before 50% of the affiliates were to stop airing soaps. If affiliates don't air soaps, they won't survive.

In another 3 to 5 years the affiliate system will be falling apart, everyone is streaming now anyway.

PBS aired a documentary about soaps in the early 80s, during the height of the soap craze. As I recall, it was a 3 part series. Maybe a few more.

What I'm remembering of it was that it seemed very factually accurate. I remember Ruth Warick serving as the narrator at least for one of the episodes. She talked about soaps can trace their origins back to Charles Dickens novels which were serialized into chapters and published in the London newspapers and always left readers on a cliffhanger.

Maybe it was British made? Wish I could remember more. Wish I'd taped it and saved it. I have that World of Soaps special from 1994 in my collection.

R275 What is your source for it only being available in 75% of markets? I know that many markets aired it at a different time slot, usually 9 or 10am. The market next to mine did that. It appears to be the opposite with the ABC soaps; their affiliates were some of the people complaining about the cancelling of theirs.

The What Is Your Source Queen is here again!

I think ego had a lot to do with OLTL's being canceled.

ABC had always treated OLTL as the red headed stepchild. AMC was the prestige show while GH was the ultra popular show and then OLTL was the one in between those two.

When they decided to cancel AMC, it was no surprise.. Show was in horrible shape both creatively and financially. Had been for the past 5-7 years. Show was a shell of it former self. Frankly, its cancellation was somewhat expected.

As someone explained above, OLTL was on a ratings upsurge. Was the highest rated of the three ABC shows. Both creatively and financially, it was in great shape.

I just don't think ego-wise, ABC could cancel its prestige soap while letting the red headed stepchild live on. Thus, if one had to die, network opted to kill both of them.

R279 I rarely ask for sources. I just want to know about it. I googled about it but couldn't find it.

This is an old article but it talks about some of the stations that didn't carry GL at all.

Most of the CBS O&O stations carried it in the morning.

R282 Thanks I knew not everyone carried it but I still think 25% of affiliates not airing it at all seems rather high. I, also, never realized until reading that article that Sunset Beach was supposed to be scheduled at 3:00pm opposite GL and GH. In my market it aired at noon, which allowed me to watch the first half of it before Y&R came on.

Plus, P&G didn't need the hassle of actually owning daytime soaps, when they can just as easily buy advertising on ones they don't own. They still advertise heavily in the daypart, and anyone who watches Spanish language telenovelas can see how much they've moved into that space as well.

The 80s did more damage to soap opera than anything. Mainly those 80s budgets. Up until the 80s soaps were produced for next to nothing with a limited amount of sets, a small core cast and they all returned major profits. These shows weren't meant to have skylines, sprawling casts (Didn't Doug Marland have like 50 contract players at one time?!?!) , and designer wardrobes.

The five things that contribute to the downfall of soap opera:

1) The Hour

2) Gloria Monty

3) The 80s (budgets/big business stories/big boobs)

4) Oprah and the rise of afternoon syndication

5) The end of new soap and headwriter development. Just stick with the ones that work and recycle the writers.

[quote] These shows weren't meant to have skylines,

Depends on the show. I would say GL, ATWT, AMC, DAYS, and Loving were meant to be small towns, along with Search For Tomorrow and Love of Life. But GH, OLTL and AW were always meant to be mid-sized cities, with skylines. I'm not sure about Y&R, it could have gone either way. Other midsize city shows included The Doctors and the Edge of Night. Ryan's Hope, Capital, The City, and B&B, were unique since they were set in actual cities.

Y&R’s set in Genoa City so I’ve always been fine if there was a skyline in evidence. That there was one in AMC’s Pine Valley was absolutely ridiculous.

You guys must have been watching an alternate GL because I tried to watch it several times in its last year, and it was really, really bad. The dialogue sucked and the direction was terrible. I won't go into the sets or costumes, which are less important to me. I remember thinking someone should put this dog down so no one will have to continue to suffer.

R287 Except the real Geona City, WI is tiny. Apparently the biggest news in the last few years was that a Dollar General opened up.

In the beginning, Y&R's Genoa City was supposed to be a small town. One of the first lines uttered was by waitress Sally McGuire bemoaning the fact that she's "stuck in a place like Genoa City" .. lol! There was a newspaper, a hospital, a hotel, and a factory (The Chancellor Plant, which served as the main employer), but those type of things were pretty common in plenty of small, Midwestern towns back then.

Within a few years, though, things began to change. The Prentiss Family was introduced, and they owned Prentiss Industries. Eldest son, Lance, would fly to exotic places in his private jet. Laurie Brooks moved into a penthouse in the sky. And by the early 80s, there were new businesses in town like Newman Enterprises, Jabot Cosmetics, and Fenmores Department Store. So these businesses added substantial wealth and elements of glamour and fashion. In short, The Big 80s were in full swing. And of course, we soon got the Genoa City Mob, which meant big time crime had arrived.

As I recall, it was sometime in the mid-80s when Pittsburgh would occasionally be used as a stand-in for Genoa City. And Genoa City really did seem like it had to be at least that size for all the stuff that characters were getting involved in. Occasionally, they'd do something small town silly like show someone at a phone booth looking through a phone directory, yet it was less than a half-inch thick. .. lol! But still to this day, One Oxford Tower in Pittsburgh is used for the exterior shot of Newman Enterprises, and the skyline looks like this:

Didn't Springfield grow into being practically NYC? It seemed to be a combo huge city/country/suburban/ near a lake and river.

R291 That was part of the problem with the Peapack version at the end. Springfield had by that time been depicted as a big city, yet was now a small town again.

R292 To be fair, it always portrayed that it had a part of town like peapack.

R293 And GH has been depicted as having docks, but if they tried to film the entire show in a ship yard, it wouldn't look right.

R283 I remember seeing a number in the high 70s or low 80s for clearance.

I will look for something more specific to source that....I know I have seen it somewhere in an interview.

I think San Fran dropped GL altogether early in the 90s. It was very shocking at the time.

It is so strange, to me, that affiliates are allowed to not show daytime programming, when they tend to get in big trouble with the network if they don't show their prime-time shows. If I were a network, they would be required to clear all our programming.

Ryan's Hope was the worst in terms of clearance, when they were cancelled I think their clearance percentage was in the 40s or 50s. Since Agnes Nixon pushed them back to noon, and so many stations had noon news, it sealed RHs fate.

Y&R had almost no competition during its 80s run on. No real competition. It almost achieved this aura about it that, I think, gave it a clear advantage. It was like all the other shows were also rans because of how much Y&R beat them in ratings. But again, it had no real competition. In my area, AMC didn't really have competition except news and Capitol then BB. When BB started taking off, AMC's ratings started to suffer.

BB was so bad. Trash. Such a shame it is one of the last 4 to survive.

[quote] It is so strange, to me, that affiliates are allowed to not show daytime programming, when they tend to get in big trouble with the network if they don't show their prime-time shows.

I remember talking to a station manager who came in to talk to our college communication class, and he told me that Southern stations would often refuse to carry network shows, as many were resistant to show content with black characters or mixed couples, etc. until the 70s "Norman Lear" era. Indeed, several Southern stations dropped OLTL when they did the Carla story.

Local stations used to do a lot more of their own local programming too. My hometown CBS affiliate didn't carry As The World Turns for years (until well after the Marland era, I think) because it had a local talk show in that slot. Luckily, our cable system included another CBS affiliate, and that's how I got my daily fill of Oakdale!

R298 Wasn't that what killed Search For Tomorrow and The Doctors, as well.

Soaps don't make local stations any money

Airing syndicated crap and their local newscasts do - and affiliates were beginning to rebel and wanted OUT of airing soaps. So it was only a matter of time, before more affiliates started dropping soaps off their schedule.

Then how have GH and DAYS able to stay on air with their pitiful ratings?

Most network shows don't make local stations much money. It would be one thing if the networks cancelled the shows and gave the hours back to the affiliates, but they didn't. Whether, the networks are programming the hour with soaps, talk shows, game shows, news, etc. the local affiliate only gets to sell a few local ads. Local affiliates like syndicated shows because they get a larger share of the advertising pie. I happen to know a person who worked in a local affiliate near me, who said his company made it clear to ABC, that if they had continued to produce AMC and OLTL, but sold it to them as a syndicated show, instead of as a network show, his entire station group would have gladly bought them. He said that his channel was especially upset, because their noon news ratings tanked when AMC ended. Because many people watched their news show so that they wouldn't forget to change the channel and miss the beginning of AMC. When it ended the people just watched the CBS or NBC affiliate.

[quote] Then how have GH and DAYS able to stay on air with their pitiful ratings?

Because they air earlier in the afternoon - GH was moved up an hour early, as affiliates has asked for years to get that 3PM timeslot back so they can air a syndicated talk show.

Affiliates wanted anything after 2PM to be turned over to them to program what they want. Unfortunately for ABC affiliates, they only have after 3PM as their own. If it was up to them they would have GH air at 1PM so they can have the 2PM slot back.

Now there are affiliates out there who don't air any soaps, and they are happy with that. They have that entire afternoon for themselves.

But for now some will settle for 3PM as there domain. btw there are many CBS affiliates that don't air "the Talk" and prefer to keep that 2PM slot to themselves.

R305 I'm not sure, I do know that they allow the affiliates to choose to air Let's Make a Deal at either 10:00am or 3:00pm, just like they did with Guiding Light. It was strange that my local CBS affiliate always aired GL at 3:00 but chose to put Let's Make A Deal at 10:00. It is surprising because they seem to have never had a hit in that time slot since GL was cancelled. Every big syndicated show they schedule there seems to only last a season or two before they move it.

R306 I think because more and more affiliates were flexing their muscles, the network was trying to be flexible with them in terms of when to air network shows.

The bottom line is that affiliates can air those shows anytime they want, or not air them at all.

R307 The networks should have just offered the affiliates more advertising space during the shows. If they had done that the affiliates might have been placated because unlike with syndicated shows they don't have to purchase them. Also, they didn't take into account that the landscape was changing. Local channels are now multiplexed. If they didn't want to air it on their main channel, they would probably now air it on one of their sub-channel.

Days stays on because NBC is getting a bargain on the licensing fees and they probably can't find something to replace it with. (Perhaps they saw what a mess ABC made with the whole Katie/The Chew/The Revolution).

I thought for sure that Corday's lawsuit against Sony would be the final nail in the show's coffin, but because that didn't happen it's clear that Days is still making both the network and Sony money in some fashion.

Quite frankly, I think the only reason GH is still on is because Days is still on. I have nothing to back that up, except a silly hunch.

I'm shocked GH is still on the air but I think they want to break GL's record THEN cancel it. My local affiliate still airs it at 2pm central. GL always did well here. Our local CBS affiliate was not happy when it was canceled. Big Houston market.

DAYS is shocking. It has been performing poorly for a long time. NBC seems like they desperately want out of the soap biz. Maybe they still want ONE on the air to beat ABC?

Even as bad as the Peapack production values were I'd gladly take GL back. I just really miss those characters.

R310 Which record? If it is television, they reach it this year, but If they want to fully beat GL, GH would need to run for over 72 years which would be 2035. Either way the US, which invented the soap opera, has now lost the records to the UK, The Archers has run on BBC radio since 1951 and Coronation Street on ITV since 1960.

R312 ABC wants the television bragging rights. GL will remain the longest running show in US history.

R313 Scripted show. Meet The Press is the longest running TV show and the Grand Ole Opry is the longest running show across entertainment.

R314 Guuuurl you know what I meant.

R315 Naturally, but I unfortunately possess an insane knowledge of broadcast history, and I rarely get to display it.

R301 Yes, particularly The Doctors, because it got shuffled to 11:00 or something, if I recall, at the very end of its life. It had been doing OK for a long time but took a relatively quick plummet once it was moved around.

Search was a bit different as it was pushed from CBS to NBC, so it was just hard for people to get used to it being on a different network.

since this is the P&G thread

Laura Wright first day at Guiding Light where she takes her clothes off as an exotic pole dancer

Go 5:00 into video

R316 I'll let you brag since you are in the P&G thread. :)

R318 and here's the next part, with recent divorcees Grillo and Moniz.

I think Wendy Moniz best storyline was when she pretended she was dying and got her entire family to feel sorry for her (her saying she lost the will to live) and somehow convinced Hart to marry her on her deathbed!

Oh the great Tammy Blanchard was in this episode.

This was the only stretch of Matt/Vanessa I found interesting. They were otherwise the cure for insomnia for me.

Such a sad waste of Lisa Brown during this stretch.

(and I still want - nay, need - to know why Lisa and JWS haven't been on a Locher Room reunion yet. If they can find Kristi fucking Ferrell they can get those two to sit down and participate too!)

Behind the scenes at Another World

R309 Regarding Days' profitability ... When Deadline covered Days' most recent renewal this past January, they actually reported that the soap is no longer profitable for Sony. Also, it didn't really sound like NBC desperately wants out of the soap biz, R310.

[quote] Renewal negotiations had been going on for months. According to sources, the holdup in reaching a deal was related to distributor Sony Pictures TV finding ways to adjust the show’s business model, including international sales, so they can continue to make it without going in the red. Because of Days Of Our Lives‘ age and declining linear ratings in all day parts, including daytime, the show is no longer profitable for Sony TV but I hear there was full commitment by the studio and the network to find a way to keep Days Of Our Lives on the air and cancellation was never an option.

So is it a tax write off?

EW just announced they are doing a week long AMC reunion. They have 30 former cast members doing this. I can't wait to see everyone because some of them we haven't seen since they left the show.

R242 who is MVJ?

Michele Val Jean

Sounds great, R328. I hope Jonathan Bennett is on it and reveals how many fellow cast members he sucked off when he was playing JR.

"No longer profitable" = probably breaking even or making very little money.

Trust, they aren't keeping money losing things on the air.

"Profit center" or "profitable" in corporate land is something that has a profit margin or ROI of 20 percent or more.

Anytime a real city gets used as a locale, the show never lasts long. LOVE IS A MANY SPLENDORED THING and CAPITOL. The former used San Francisco, the latter was based in Washington DC.

LOVE IS A MANY SPLENDORED THING was the first time we saw this legend on daytime......

R334

I didn't know La Bev was in LIAMST. Any chance people have videos from that?

R333 Except, of course, B&B and prime time soaps.

R335 There used to be some on YT but it seems like many of them were taken down.

There only seems to be one episode of LIAMST on YT right now (about four different accounts have uploaded it differently, but it's all the same - with a young Leslie Charleson in one of the segments).

LIAMST was also, I believe, where Beverlee and Zaslow first worked together (and clashed).

Why you won't find LIAMST ...

[quote] All 1,430 episodes of Love Is a Many Splendored Thing were recorded on videotape at the CBS Broadcast Center Studio #41 in New York City. Like most soap operas of the late 1960s/early 1970s, it fell victim to the industry practice of wiping tapes for reuse. Although the master tapes of the serial were erased, some rare kinescopes of episodes remain in the possession of private collectors. Only seven videotapes of the series are confirmed to exist. These are non-circulating copies stored at the UCLA Film and Television Archive. The archived episodes were telecast: March 8, 16, and 24, 1971, April 1 and 9, 1971, and March 12 and 20, 1973.

I'm still here damn it!

I want to watch the episodes from 1991 when Lucinda lost Walsh Enterprises to Connor, Kirk and Evan. Liz Hubbard and Allyson Rice Taylor were both amazing in those episodes

What about me???

here is a REAL TREAT for you P&G fans

Raw footage from behind the scenes as they shoot a scene from Guiding Light

What is interesting is that actors who are not in this scene are sitting off stage watching the scene - i would think they would be in their dressing room running lines, or in the actors lounge

Interesting to see some of the permanent sets set up. I know in 1989 they were still in their old classic studio. When I saw the set, they were at the Broadcast Center in what used to be the old ATWT space there.

Alan Locher said that a very highly anticipated reunion will be announced at noon today.

Thinking this could possibly be Lisa Brown and John Wesley Shipp. OR possibly Justin Deas/Beth Ehlers/Coopers.

ATWT's Marnie Schulenburg just had a baby and has been diagnosed with Stage 4 breast cander.

Justin Deas (ex-Buzz), Frank Dicopoulos (ex-Frank), John Driscoll (ex-Coop), Beth Ehlers (ex-Harley) and Fiona Hutchison (ex-Jenna) will do a virtual Guiding Light reunion

This is HUGE as Justin Deas NEVER does interviews and this is the FIRST interview Beth Ehlers has done (about Guiding Light) since she left in a huff

Yep, it was the Coopers.

The fact that Lisa and JWS still aren't doing one has me QUITE interested in why.

R348 AGAIN JWS went on twitter and said he would absolutely 100% LOVE to do one

And Alan Locher never got back to him.

We all know re JWS saying that, R349, but I am wondering WHY it's not happening.

[quote] but I am wondering WHY it's not happening.

Ask Alan Locher

Maybe JWS rebuffed Locher’s toe sucking proposition?

I blame it all on Scoche Marin.

Here’s the 50 Years of Soaps special from 1994:

For when dear Emma and her damn squash are Murieled.....

Chill, Mary Ellen. We ain’t done yet here

It's coming soon. Muriel is on a heavy flow day today

Good Lord! SOD did a short interview with Judi Evans about her fall. On top of everything she broke the doctors found a blood clot in one of her lungs. They said it was not related to the fall and told her the fall probably saved her life because they found the embolism on her scans. She remains hospitalized & her husband can't visit because of COVID.

Tina Sloan tweeted her saying something to the effect - Judi, this is your mom. I hope you feel better soon. Just know your mom the RN would gladly take care of you if I could.

OK, that makes me cry. Tina is a good person......

There goes the "Four Musketeers Guiding Light Reunion" that has been the dream of Guiding Light fans

Though Beth Chamberlain played Beth Raines longer than Judi Evans, she is not the original "Musketeer"

R292, in the beginning of GL, the town sign and fire department seen were in Springfield Township (Union County) New Jersey.

Beth Chamberlain is too busy selling her damn kettlebells!

That bitch Ava Jerome has my china

We've been Murieled, dears.

Now we're over on the rickety bridge with Solita. Do join us!

Did anyone watch the Shayne family on the Locher Report? What was going on with Kristi Ferrell? I had to turn it off. It was so uncomfortable

^^^

In what way?

Kristi just sounded confused; I think it was technical problems.

Her voice was kind of rough, but I could still hear Roxie in there.

Krista Tesreau said if she had to do it all over again, she would never have left Guiding Light

That is how much she loved the show and loved working on a soap - but she left to see if she could have a shot at primetime, which she regrets.

it's so tough thinking of Mindy b/c I adore Krista but I thought Kimberly took her to another level;

I couldn't see Krista going against Beverlee let alone sleeping with Roger.

Pam wrote to Krista's strengths.

This is like Margaret Colin an HBS; I loved them both as Margo; same with the two Mindys.

Folks, we're on the other thread, see R364

Krista Tesreau said she and Kimberly Simms played TWO different characters (as far as Tesreau was concerned) saying the only her "Mindy" & Simms "Mindy" had in common was the same name.

Kimberly Simms was one of the best recasts! Yes, Kimberly did a completely different take on Mindy. But it sure worked! She did a great job taking Mindy into adulthood. As r369 wrote, I just can't see Krista's Mindy ever believably going up against Alex. Or sleeping with Roger for that matter.

JFP was stupid not to give her a decent raise to continue when her contract came up for renewal. But that's just one of JFP's MANY stupid mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Krista's Mindy, but I loved Kimberly's Mindy too. Very few recasts can I say that about. Most roles that have had multiple actors playing the part, I have a clear favorite. But in this case, I liked them both equally. Ann Hamilton and Barbara Crampton are best forgotten.

In the space of 6 weeks in 1992, GL lost three of its top actresses -- Kimberly Simms in July 1992, Sherry Stringfield in August 1992, Beverlee McKinsey in August 1992.

Sherry was determined to leave no matter what, but both Kimberly and Beverlee would have stayed if JFP had worked with them.

R373 Based on Beverlee exit interview, nothing they could've done would have convinced her to stay

In terms of Simms she said her only ask was to resign for only one year, or a two year contract with an "out" clause after a year

But P&G refused her request, stopped negotiations and let her go.

zimmer alwys seemed mean, cant watch that face....

emma has a great resume of high class acting jobs. kool lady

[quote]Based on Beverlee exit interview, nothing they could've done would have convinced her to stay

Beverlee indicated she didn't want to work as much and asked for a reduced story load. JFP replied "You have a contract." If JFP had been willing to work with her and reduce the number of days she'd worked, I suspect she would have stayed. But JFP would have had to have done that when Beverlee first broached the subject. By the time Beverlee decided to invoke her out clause, then it was too late.

[quote]In terms of Simms she said her only ask was to resign for only one year, or a two year contract with an "out" clause after a year

What I heard at the time is the TPTB refused to give Kimberlee a substantial raise, which was insulting since she'd done so much with the role. After Mindy had been off screen for 6 months, they approached Kimberlee again with the same offer she'd originally turned down. She again refused that offer, so they cast Ann Hamilton instead. The out clause was a part of it, but the main aspect was the lack of respect which was reflected in the pay offer to Kimberlee.

I had only a brief interlude watching ATWT in my early 20s, but these threads have sparked a quarantine-aided bout of nostalgia here and on YouTube. Back then I liked Jon Hensley very much, but somehow missed all the scenes with bare chests, riding crops, and pussy cat stroking. I guess their producer knew what horny, bodice-ripper-reading housewives wanted.

So GL lost Sherry, Beverlee and Kimberly all in 1992 so they decide to KILL OFF Maureen in early 1993?

I was surprised I was still so into GL into 1991 after most of my faves -- Phillip, Beth, Reva, Josh, Chelsea -- all left.

But once there was the SB infusion: Marj, Justin, Marcy...I was done.

GL lost me till Kim came back in 1995 and then Phillip in 1996

With HW Doug Marland and EP Robert Calhoun both being gay men, its not really a surprise ATWT cast so many stunningly handsome men and had them shirtless as much as possible. Marland and Calhoun knew what the woman wanted to see as well as the gay men.

Ugh Michael Swan and Margaret Reed on The Locher Report. He’s a crazy Trumper and she’s all out batshit crazy. I had an email experience one time with her.

Hard pass.

[quote] Beverlee indicated she didn't want to work as much and asked for a reduced story load. JFP replied "You have a contract."

That is NOT what she said - her words from the interview

"I weighed all the possibilities, thought about it very strongly from about last February on. I thought about presenting them with the idea of cutting me back, fewer days, shorter hours, but you can't do that. It affects all the other actors in your storyline, many of whom have been at Guiding Light longer than I have. Decreasing my story could mean decreasing theirs and [consequently] their work days, their income. They have homes in the suburbs, they have families. You don't want to do that to your friends."

McKinsey weighed all the pros and cons PRIVATELY in her mind and came to the realization that the solution was to just go. She NEVER ONCE went to JFP with her grievances.

These scenes with Beverly and Vincent are heartbreaking and beautiful. Her last with him.

Alex was so lonely that last year or so she was on the show.

Raj had dumped her. Phillip and Beth were gone.

Yeah, A-M was around, but Rick was still new to the show.

Alex seemed sad and to spend most of that last year with Nick not knowing he was her son?

Just sad.

r381 Thanks! Obviously my memories from 28 years ago was foggy on the issue. That happens to us doddering old woman as we age. Appreciate you looking up the original quote.

me too Aunt Liz

I have a great memory, but I don't always get it right