‘The Sopranos’ is One of the Hottest Shows On Television... in 2020

Pauley Walnuts. For him alone worth a re-watch.

Now that's longevity.

Bedtime Stories at #1, the Sopranos... are the 90s back in style?

A great series, The Sopranos, which I binge-watched over weekends one summer about 10 years ago, averaging a season a weekend. I couldn't believe how good it was, but it certainly gave me some hellish dreams from watching it in such concentrated doses. I'd have to work up the nerve to get into it again.

I watched it but it went downhill after awhile.

Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Upstairs Downstairs -- my days have been filled.

[QUOTE] I watched it but it went downhill after awhile.

The Sopranos never went downhill.

My sister is an academic, and she cites it as one of the shows teens and twentysomething are obsessed with, along with Friends and Gray's Anatomy.

Christufffffeeerrrrrr!

You knew you were damaged goods and you never fucking told me?

R8, surprisingly you are right. Before the shut down some of my middle schoolers admitted to being in love with Grey's Anatomy. I really didn't get it...

My sisters both watched this recently and my mom is rewatching

I love how they'd always leave the ends off food words: mozzarell', prosciutt', etc.

Also, the malapropisms the gang threw out all the time were such good laughs.

Chris Tardio was such an adonis when he was on there.

Maybe people would rather watch a pretend Mob boss than a wannabe Mob boss? I would rather.

I'm watching the first season right now. I tried to get into the Sopranos a few years ago but I just tuned out. This time, it's obvious the characters are so well-written. Far better than the characters on Breaking Bad, Six Feet Under, etc. That's just my opinion though. The Wire also has great characters but in a completely different way. And I've liked Lorraine Bracco. What are the best seasons of the show?

[quote]What are the best seasons of the show?

Whichever one you're watching at the moment. They're all good, and meant to be watched in order.

R17, thanks. Can't wait to finish the season.

So the people of New Jersey finally discovered Netflix.

It’s not even on Netflix.

It's on Amazon Prime.

HBO is offering it for free, too, right?

Over the years I've watched the whole series 3-4 times, I think. And I honestly think I might start watching it from the top again tomorrow.

The evil Livia Soprano was just a joyless, and sad woman.

#3 Livia Soprano

"If you want my advice, Anthony, don't expect happiness. You won't get it, people let you down … It's all a big nothing. What makes you think you're so special?" Has any villain ever wielded a weapon half as effectively as Livia Soprano deployed pure nihilism? This monologue served as a backdrop for six(ish) seasons of her mafia-don son Tony's brushes with death and depravity. Sure, she tried to have him killed, but it was the joyless way in which she lived that truly made her an enemy. The character's story was tragically cut short by the death of actor Nancy Marchand, but in being struck down she became more powerful than Tony could possibly imagine; the damage she inflicted was irreversible.

The Wire and The Sopranos are both on Hulu. Good job Hulu.

[quote]Bedtime Stories at #1, the Sopranos... are the 90s back in style?

They've been in style for years. Where have you been, hon?

Soprano are on the Roku Channel too.

Now I want to rewatch it.

I understand younger viewers' interest in Sopranos and early Grey's Anatomy, but Friends, I just can't.

R28, Friends is like The Cosby Show....but without any black characters, no rapist creator/star, etc. Joking aside, Friends is like The Cosby show where even if you don't laugh, the stories are a sideshow to the jokes/antics. This makes it perfect for mindless watching and binging. I think that's why so many people watch it even if they don't necessarily love it.

In Memoriam

That ending though.

I’d rather have that ending than see Tony get his brains blown out right in front of Carmela and the kids.

Not going to be the one to spoil it, but Chase is semi-officially on record as to what the final ending (sudden blackout) means, he let it slip in an interview recently, like last year. In case anyone's interested.

One of the funniest scenes is when Tony's sister Janice is having kinky sex with her mafia boyfriend. She is shoveling a dildo up his ass and has a gun to his head saying to him - I'LL PIMP YOU OUT BITCH!

Tony Soprano is alive and well. According to David Chase he is anyway.

[QUOTE] One of the funniest scenes is when Tony's sister Janice is having kinky sex with her mafia boyfriend. She is shoveling a dildo up his ass and has a gun to his head saying to him - I'LL PIMP YOU OUT BITCH!

What’s equally funny is when Ralphie audaciously tells the story as if Janice was the one who fetishized it.

Good show

I never watched it, thinking about it but would it be a big let down after just getting through Ozark? I mean the killing is not going to shock me if you compare what was surprising 20 years ago by today. Is it worth binging on?

Tony Soprano and his ma. Season 1, episode 1. Superb actors.

The Wire is on Roku too.

Did any other show (ever) have this level of acting? Masterclass.

David Chase said that Tony died in the end.

In my unpopular opinion, Season 1 was not that great. It was like watching the 1st season of Seinfeld; the actors were still feeling out their characters. By Season 3, it was really good.

Another unpopular opinion is that I never liked the psychiatrist device. The idea came from "Analyze This," IMO. It was also an expository device (Tony tells you what he's thinking via the psych). I like Lorraine Bracco, but IMO, she was not convincing as the psychiatrist.

R41, that fight between Tony and Carmela was really good.

r13: The leaving off of the final vowel on words like "prosciutt..." etc. is IIRC Neapolitan dialect. Nowadays Italians in all parts of Italy all study standard Italian in school (the dialect they use on TV, mostly Milanese)--but they all still have regional dialects. Italian was only a united country in the middle of the 19th century. All these cities were city-states and all had their own dialects. Sicilian (according to the book we used in my Italian class) is even considered a separate language, not just a dialect. Anyway, the point is not that The Sopranos used it's own version of Italian, but that the characters came from families that immigrated from the Naples area, capital of the Campania region, and that's how they speak there. I could have this wrong--this could be another dialect, but the majority of Italian immigrants in the 19th and early 20th centuries did come from either Naples or Sicily, and I know that's not Sicilian in the Sopranos. I could look it up but don't feel like it.

It was really groundbreaking bit, but I re-watched it last year, and though it's still strong I found it doesn't always hold up quite so well now. The series started with the concept of a mobster in therapy, but by the last season Chase had given up on that idea, and I thought the show suffered as a result. I loved Bracco--i though she provided some hilarious perspective on things (one of the hardest times I ever laughed while watching the show the show was when she told Tony, completely deadpan during therapy, "It sounds like you see yourself as a 'sad clown' ").There were great touches almost all the way through--sometimes they'd have a really brilliant idea, like the idea of Johnny and Ginny Sac having beautiful taste in their interior decorating of their house (as opposed to Carmella and Tony), or Meadow going to see the bored therapist (Linda Lavin!) who only becomes interested in her complaints when she thinks she might be able to discover that Meadow was the victim of sexual abuse.

I guess it's true. I've been watching one episode a night and I'm nearly at the end. Never seen the show until now though of course the ending was shouted all over the internet back when it first ran. My only real complaint is the theme song. I have to mute that until they get to the first scene.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler who played Meadow was hilarious as a Will and Grace guest star.

It was unbelievable how hot all the goomars where. If you watch any true crime on the mafia and they were all gross skanks suitable the gross looking mafia guys. They did Adriana so wrong, basically any woman on the show was portrayed as whore and if she wasn't, she was either murdered or raped or beaten. It's so antiwoman and once you notice, you can't stop.

Gloria Trillo. Every woman hates thinking their man would meet a gloria type figure.

[quote]the characters came from families that immigrated from the Naples area, capital of the Campania region, and that's how they speak there.

Indeed, Avellino, where Tony's forebears were from, is in Campania, about 50 miles from Naples.

I absolutely LOVED the Sopranos on first watch. The second time, I liked it for a season, and then I couldn't stomach it.

[quote] [B]asically any woman on the show was portrayed as whore and if she wasn't, she was either murdered or raped or beaten.

There was the de facto boss lady (Commendatori) in Italy. There was another boss lady, the one who got shot with the phone book between the gun and her chest; she did get beaten up as well.

Janice Soprano and Livia (the mom) were actually good, interesting roles for women. One reason I got sick of "The Simpsons" is because all of the girl/women characters were really boring.

The shrink (I'm blanking on her name) belatedly realised that Tony, as a sociopath/antisocial personality would not be helped by psychotherapy to become a better person. Rather, it only enabled him.

That it took 6 or so seasons for her to remember something from her 3rd-year psychology textbook was one of the less plausible moments on the show.

Annabella Sciorra was astonishing as Gloria Trillo.

There was a Sopranos Com last fall in New Jersey, and it was very poorly organized, one problem being no one was expecting the huge number of enthusiastic fans to show up. Now there are mini-cons, and the podcast is extremely popular.

And I concur with how effective the Gloria Trillo story is, and how wonderful Annabella Sciorra was. Watching her now, after knowing how she suffered from Harvey Weinstein's brutal rape, is heartbreaking. I hope she's found peace.

[QUOTE] That it took 6 or so seasons for her to remember something from her 3rd-year psychology textbook was one of the less plausible moments on the show.

Her name was Dr. Melfi, R52. And it didn’t take six seasons. It was a recurring theme throughout the show, but she liked Tony so much that she continued treating him despite wrestling with the reality that he’d never change. She enjoyed their sessions. In fact she was ready to move him to behavior modification therapy in Season 3, conceding that she couldn’t help him, but changed her mind after being sexually assaulted because it was through their friendship that she regained her sense of security.

Had there been another season, Tony could easily talk his way back into her chair.

[QUOTE] Iler first remembered how he didn't think he had a shot at the A.J. role because all the other kids at the audition were Italian, but show creator David Chase laughed every time the young Iler said "fuck" and somehow that landed him the job, he joked.

I honestly can't imagine the connection of the brilliant Sopranos with the dreck that is Grey's Anatomy.

And Grey's went bad FAST, with that stupid "Dizzy" story. I quit watching it in season 2 or 3.

I started watching the series again and even back in Season 1, Dr. Melfi’s husband was telling her that Tony is a sociopath and she shouldn’t be treating him. It was her personal choice.

Just watched the pilot episode and I feel like I wasted an hour of my life. Looks like every other "tough guy" HBO show coupled with tits and ass. Not impressive at all.

R60, try Season 3 (esp. "Pine Barrens"). IMO, Season 1 was not good. Plus, James Gandolfini looked like George Costanza. Once you see the resemblance, you can't unsee it.

I think Season 1 is a bit of a slog but it does shine in a couple of places that almost completely make up for it. In a way, it's like Season 1 of the Wire (which I just finished) where most of the season is just getting you introduced to their characters, their inner lives and how they make decisions.

Season 1 isn’t a slog at all. What’s the matter with you finooks? Some of the best, most memorable moments of the entire series are in these episodes. There’s no use trying to convince some lousy prick who doesn’t like it after watching one episode. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

R63, And you're a bigger prick. I'm not watching the rest of that garbage. Go cry in a corner triggered bitch.

Oof, madon’! You blow your father with that mouth?

Brilliant show . I was riveted the entire series ,wich is especially odd as I never liked mafioso themed anything. James Gandolfini just did something for me . I found him incredibly sexy . I also fell in love with Edie Falco during this,and now watch anything shes in because shes incredibly talented.

My grandmother LOVED the scene where Christopher kills Cozette accidentally...but Janice made this show for me! The family line of " there's a lot of things that I could say right now that I'm NOT going to say!" is perfect!

The Sopranos doesn't come off as a typical mafia story, it seems much deeper.

“Cunnilingus & psychiatry brought us to this.”

They should've ended the series right there. It was the summation of Chase’s idea for the show. But people get greedy when million$ are waved in front of them.

Anyone comparing this to Ozark has a brain leak. That show was retarded. Plot holes 7 miles wide & a guy who is supposed to be a smart money launderer keeps telling everyone he’s a money launderer for a drug cartel. And he’s terrible at it. And the bad guy who murders everyone else keeps saying “I geeve you one more chance.....because you smart...”

Another good HBO show is ROME. Occasionally gruesome, but campy/funny too. It was supposed to be a 7 season show but it was too expensive. Game of Thrones showrunners figured out how to shave tons of money from production. Film in dark, tight areas with dark filters on the lens & use lots of CGI.

[quote] My grandmother LOVED the scene where Christopher kills Cozette accidentally...but Janice made this show for me! The family line of " there's a lot of things that I could say right now that I'm NOT going to say!" is perfect!

The untimely death of Cozette reared its head during the Christopher intervention. Tony, still hurting from the death of Pie-O-My (horse) became angry when he heard that Christopher killed Cozette.

Yes, Janice was a great character. Some people had real hatred for Janice, but she was hilarious to me.

[QUOTE] The Sopranos doesn't come off as a typical mafia story, it seems much deeper.

That’s because it is much deeper. The stunod at R60/R64 doesn’t have the brainpower to comprehend that. What kind of simpleton watches one episode of something and passes judgement on the other 85, despite the fact that many far and wide are telling him that it’s a masterpiece? One that’s regularly declared the greatest show ever? Fuckin’ slander, you ask me.

I thought Hulu would have ROME with its HBO content, but it doesn’t. Luckily, amazon Prime has it.

Amazon Prime has every HBO show exclusively except Game of Thrones.

R70 The emotional responses from Tony in relation to the story was a cornerstone of the show starting with the geese, but they were so good/funny/gruesome, (thinking about the fight in Ralphies kitchen). But seeing him froth over the dog, or horse, Gandolfini was amazing.

I also loved the rest of that intervention when Christopher is told to go to every meeting, every therapy session, and not say NOTHING...omg!

I also really liked the season when Janice and Ritchie get together, and try to out-do Tony and Carmela for a bit, anyway...but she's so desperate, and contrived, perfectly horrible antagonist it just worked.

So much to love about this show, even Bogdanovich is tolerable!

Even Linda Lavin was good. Of course they didn’t let her sing, so that helped.

Don't get angry, R74, but I thought the geese in the pool thing was corny (aww, sensitive Tony). That's another reason why I don't think Season 1 was that great. Tony's connection to the horse was more believable. Then, the murder of Ralph Cifaretto was icing on the cake.

In retrospect, Ralph was a great character and died too soon.

I found Tony Soprano to be scarier than any of The Godfather guys.

Fucking Janice...

Wrap it up, Janice.

The Sopranos is as deep as The Godfather and funnier than Goodfellas.

I watched it every Sunday when it originally aired and it still holds up

I never watched it when it was first aired, but I knew there was a some kind of gay character storyline from reading DL. Later after I got hooked, I SCREAMED when I finally saw who the gay character turned out to be.

One of my favorite episodes was when Carmela overheard Junior’s girlfriend talk about him going down on her and Tony making jokes about it

This and Breaking Bad are the most overrated crap the so-called golden age of tv has produced.

The reception after Livia's funeral where Janice tries yo get everyone to share their feelings had me howling. It was like an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm with an unspoken threat of gun violence.

R85 Who needs gun violence when you have a loaded Carmela?

Watching her blow was great!

Breaking Bad is overrated. It's not a show I could ever watch again, it's very much "of the moment". But not The Sopranos. It still holds up and the public seems to agree.

R84 is more of a Two and a Half Men kind of guy.

HBO had free streaming this past month

It’s so funny that people talk about how season one isn’t that great. In fact it was stellar. I remember reviews were off the charts. But the show did indeed get much better in later seasons. In comparison to season three, the first season isn’t as good, but it’s as good as anything else that’s ever run on tv.

Angie Bompensiero's story is overlooked. But the woman made it. Carmela was so jelly of her success.

The first few seasons of Sex and the City were lauded at the time for being groundbreaking. They weren't and that claim seems really silly in retrospect. Season 1 of The Sopranos is good but it definitely feels like a warm up for the later seasons.

New generations will find and enjoy SATC. Although it’ll be/is dated, it still was ground breaking in showing real women relationships with men and each other.

Carmela could’ve taught Lori Loughlin a thing of two.

[quote] New generations will find and enjoy SATC

Will they though? SATC seems like one of those shows that will strictly appeal to women who saw it when it first aired. It's not the kind of show that screams longevity.

R43, I thought I was the only one who didn’t like Bracco as Dr Melfi. She’s a good actress but her performance in this left me a little cold. Probably didn’t help that there were so many great performances around her.

Rosalie Aprile was one of my favorite characters. "Fuckin' nosy?! Eat your manicott!"

GIFs don't post like they used to, so I'll just post a still photo.

Thanks R14 ! That's a hot guy right there! That face and body, and the way his butt wiggles in your scene. Hot all around.

One of my favorite supporting characters was the hapless Artie Bucco. The scene in the penultimate episode where he prepares the rabbit dish from his grandfather's cookbook, is strangely beautiful.

[QUOTE] That's a hot guy right there! That face and body, and the way his butt wiggles in your scene. Hot all around.

Whoever directed that episode R98 sure must have loved their subject. The camera luxuriates in his body like it’s one of those All American Guys softcore muscle flicks. Bruce Weber couldn’t have done a better job soaking up every inch of that Italian stallion.

Agreed R100 that was very hot.

Trump reminds me of Livia. Only he's more mobbed up.

No surprise Livia was the way she was. Growing up, girls in Sicilian American families were seen as useless. You had to marry her off to get her out of the house. When you married her off, her husband beat her. But IRL there was no scene where Sonny goes to beat up the sister’s husband. Once she was married, she belonged to her husband. She could not run home to her mom & dad with the kids. That was out if tge question. In their minds, the husband was the head of the family and the woman needed to obey the husband.

I remember hearing a story where an Italian American woman says her immigrant grandmother was married off when she was 17. The husband beat her regularly. He used to nap in the daytime. One afternoon the husband woke up and saw his wife standing over him with a boiling pot of pasta. The grandma said, “You beat me once more, you never sleep easy in this house.”

Once a son was born, all females took a backseat. The son was everything. The mother doted on him, the father showed him off while all the girls were ignored. For Livia Soprano, life *was* a big nothing. Her parents weren’t going to send her to college. She wasn’t going to have a career. Her job was to marry, obey her husband & produce children, especially a son. Cook,clean, take a beating & go to church.

Good story, r103, but Livia's parents were from Avellino, the same region as Naples.

That's a misreading of Livia, I think. She was a nasty malignant narcissist. There's a line from Tony, something about her wearing his (mafia boss) father down to a "little nub" with the constant dressing down and gaslighting.

Livia’s husband was a brute.

Gaslighting, r105? How did Livia gaslight Johnny?

was there a gay character/storyline? i used to watch it but sorry i forgot .

Gaslight is a misused word, but agree with R105's point that Livia was a narcissist (another misused word). IMO, Livia was supposed to be the opposite of Mother of the Year. She wasn't a feminist crusader. She was someone who cared about herself only and who didn't have motherly instincts.

There was a scene where Tony trips & falls outside of Livia's house & she laughs. She spilled all T's secrets to Uncle Junior, etc.

David Chase said he had a mother like Livia. Sounds corny, but IMO, it's a groundbreaking character for a woman. Not all women, not all moms are caring about their children.

[quote]David Chase said he had a mother like Livia.

I did, too. But it was only half of her personality, the other side of which was crushing, obsessive love of her firstborn son. Sometimes the two coalesced. The boy down the street they bought my first car from was caught with Playboy magazines in the trunk of his new car. My parents were talking about it in the living room when suddenly my mother broke into this absolute rage: "YOU'd better not do this! I'd rather see you DEAD than find those kinds of magazines in YOUR car. RATHER SEE YOU DEAD!!!"

Well, she never found those kinds of magazines in my car (something I was able to torture her with after I came out).

[quote] That's a misreading of Livia, I think. She was a nasty malignant narcissist.

I always understood Livia was based on the wife of Emperor Augustus and the harm she did to her own children and Rome generally.

Something I learned about the show only this morning after watching one of the last episodes. The recurring role of the wife of the gay mobster was played by Lorraine Bracco's own daughter. She looks older than her mother.

R111 Elizabeth Bracco is Lorraine's sister not her daughter.

Correction noted.. But the YOUNGER sister still looks older

David Chase clearly has issues with women

The only misstep for me in the whole series was the gay New Hampshire storyline. You could tell the writers didn’t have a personal understanding of that world. The reveal of Vito going down on the guy in the parking lot of the construction was genius. But they didn’t know what to do with him after that. (Though I loved the implication that Phil Leotardo might have had a gay past.)

R115, Wut? Phil Leotardo had a gay past? I do not remember that at all. Phil L. was a hilarious character.

[quote] And I took his fat fuckin' hand in friendship. (Talking about Tony Soprano.)

Vito as the one gay character was disappointing, no offense to the actor. Christopher (gay) would have been more interesting.

Why was he “disappointing,” R116? Because he wasn’t sexy enough for you?

No, R117, that's not really the reason. I guess Vito just wasn't pinging at all for me (not saying that every gay man has to ping, not saying my gaydar is infallible, either).

It's more like when, on the old "Roseanne Show," they said that one of the characters would come out as gay and it turned out to be Roseanne's mother. IMO, it would have made more sense if it had been Darlene or Jackie, who both pinged.

I did like when Vito lost a little bit of weight and became insufferable, talking about his diet.

Christopher was hot and should’ve been gay.

I’d eat grilled cheese off his radiator!

The guy who played Johnny Sac was perfect.

He’s a big Trump supporter, R120.

There were some really terrible actors on it. Meadow, Vito, Vito's wife, Jenny Sac, Little Steven.

Too funny. I thought it was just me. I've never see it before. I just never had the desire because it's so long. Guess I got the time now. I'm only up to Season 1 Episode 4. It seems pretty good but all those NY accents get annoying and I keep waiting for the bad guys to get theirs but they're all bad guys. Oh well, it's free with Prime so WTF.

[quote]Jenny Sac

Oh, Madonn...

Wow, I had no idea the woman who played Ginny Sack died until I googled her just now. And she’s been dead for 10 years!

The Meadow and AJ characters were boring. Partly the writing and partly the bad acting. (Jamie Lynn Sigler (sulking face always) and Robert Iler.) "Pine Barrens" (Season 3) was marred by the subplot involving Meadow and Jackie Junior (another bad actor, good looks could not save the situation).

[quote] It seems pretty good but all those NY accents get annoying

NJ, don't you mean?

Its moments like this in what isnt said that adds another dimension to the show, the unspoken 'ethics', and ethos.

Get that egg salad out of his mouth!

r41 You hit the nail on the head: a Masterclass. And that’s exactly what’s wrong with it. The enunciation, the beats, the verbal density, everything smacks of thea-tuh!

If David Chase would’ve been honest & made it what it was-essentially an autobiography of his psyche, especially his relationship with his mother, it would've been so much better. In fairness, that was the original intent, IIRC. The mob boss was just a device, almost a metaphor of “this is what we turn into with these mothers”. When viewers responded to the mafia parts, he ended up expanding it. Unfortunately, he didn't adjust the writing accordingly; Tony was still David, even as the mafia life became the centre of the show.

Once that happened, & Nancy Marchand died, it was all over. Chase was out of his element, & the people he brought in later had no idea what that world was, or what a true psychopath looked like. The only thing left was to let Gandolfini huff & puff and chew the scenery, and let the show's character arcs ripple out around it. Add some comic relief & viola--Compelling Television Drama. The ending everyone criticized was just the epitome of the whole series. It was cowardly writing, with over-arch dialogue, a try hard soundtrack and way too much theatre acting.

For all the violence, it pulled way too many punches.

And yet it was still the best television show of the modern era, r130.

r131 not even close.

r130 is deliberately contrarian. Talk about trying too hard.

It was good up until the bullshit dream sequence after Tony got shot and they wasted episodes on Tony and his fantasy alter ego. Once they got past that, there were some good moments until that most ridiculous ending of all time.

The dream sequences, I never liked. IMO, they was David Chase's efforts at being artistic. I am a fan of the show, though

[quote] of The dream sequences, I never liked. IMO, they was David Chase's efforts at being artistic

They were pure filler. Run out of ideas, pad the episodes with filler.

I could never get into it; I thought it was clunky and pseudo-intellectual.

I liked the dream stuff. The dream/food poisoning hallucination episode (I think it’s at the end of season two) where Tony, Paulie and Silvio take Big Pussy out on the boat to kill him is stunning.

I also dearly love the Annette Bening dream.

What, you people don’t have weird dreams? Is Tony not allowed to dream because he’s a mobster? Those episodes had some of the best moments of the series, and led to other great moments like when Meadow gave Tony a Big Mouth Billy Bass for Christmas. I couldn’t stop laughing when I saw that.

Gloria Trillo! One the most complicated characters on that show. That fight was one of the best.

I liked the dreams too. They sort of set this particular show apart. The Sopranos is my favorite. 😊

The dreams, and other tropes, served to deflate the self-aggrandizing mafioso hypermasculinity with a little surreal diversion, I enjoyed them. They were very good -- Gandolfini, the writers, Chase, the directors -- at keeping Tony balanced on the very fine line between terrifying alpha male and ridiculous clown, this was one of the show's masterstrokes.

Never cared about the show when it originally aired, let alone now.

I thought the show worked beautifully until the overlong Season 6. It was indeed full of filler, including the egregious Vito gay storyline. If they'd simply had him disappear for a while and then come back and get whacked, cutting out the whole New Hampshire sequence, it would have worked much better. In fact, boiling those 21 episodes down to the standard 13 (or 15 at most) would have gotten rid of most of the fluff and left the series with a tight, devastating final run of episodes. Other plotlines that could have been condensed were Tony getting shot (the 2-episode dream sequence was so overwritten), Chris's final binge in LA, and Carmela's trip to Paris. Those episodes had some nice moments, but they didn't do much to forward the plot.

Chris always reminded me of the Armenian FOBers from the 80s in Glendale. Leather jacket, jackal face with huge nose, a bovine state and all hairy. I could just see him driving a second hand BMW, snake charmer music blaring, a Marlboro gold in his left hand that he hangs it out the window with a fake Rolex, a smell of pungent cologne to mask his questionable hygiene and cussing at pedestrians crossing on a green light.

Chris is so unattractive. That unibrow does him no favors.

R146, I think Michael Imperioli is a pretty handsome guy, which shows what a good actor he is. He made Christopher thoroughly unlikable.

[quote] I thought the show worked beautifully until the overlong Season 6. It was indeed full of filler, including the egregious Vito gay storyline. If they'd simply had him disappear for a while and then come back and get whacked, cutting out the whole New Hampshire sequence, it would have worked much better. In fact, boiling those 21 episodes down to the standard 13 (or 15 at most) would have gotten rid of most of the fluff and left the series with a tight, devastating final run of episodes. Other plotlines that could have been condensed were Tony getting shot (the 2-episode dream sequence was so overwritten), Chris's final binge in LA, and Carmela's trip to Paris. Those episodes had some nice moments, but they didn't do much to forward the plot.

R144, you're right. I didn't watch "The Sopranos" in real time. I binge-watched it years after the series concluded. You don't notice certain things when you binge-watch it.

As much as I liked some of the stuff you described (New Hampshire, Paris / Rosalie Aprile), I agree they were filler. The one episode that I really didn't like was "Chasing It," in Season 6, Part 2. That was the episode that highlighted how much everybody liked to gamble. Pointless.

Imperiole played a sympathetic character named Spider in Goodfellas.

I think everyone knew a guy named Spider growing up in the 60s & 70s.

I'm now on Season 4 and I can say that the show seems to get better and better as it proceeds. Season 1 really does feel so dated in comparison, even just to Season 2. The writing and characters still seem better written than other comparable shows like Six Feet Under, Breaking Bad, etc. For some reason, with how many characters there are, I'm reminded of Tolstoy. Oh, I also despise Janice, Ralph and can only somewhat tolerate Tony.

Another thing I like about the show is that it never allows you to "love" the characters because it seems (to me) to want to portray these people as they are. It doesn't glamorize them the way some people accuse Goodfellas of doing. You see these characters for all their human qualities--good and bad. So a certain level of distance is maintained.

I've avoided this show for a long time, but I just started binged watching it a few weeks ago, and to my surprise, I find this thread, seeing that I'm not the only one who's doing it! Lol

I completely agree with R130 who said this:

[quote] If David Chase would’ve been honest & made it what it was-essentially an autobiography of his psyche, especially his relationship with his mother, it would've been so much better. In fairness, that was the original intent, IIRC. The mob boss was just a device, almost a metaphor of “this is what we turn into with these mothers”. When viewers responded to the mafia parts, he ended up expanding it. Unfortunately, he didn't adjust the writing accordingly; Tony was still David, even as the mafia life became the centre of the show. Once that happened, & Nancy Marchand died, it was all over. .

I completely agree. The show never recovered after Nancy Marchand's death, IMO. The conflict with Tony and Livia was the foundation of the show. It's kind of shocking that Marchand didn't win an Emmy for her performance, she was phenomenal as Livia.

I love Season 4 because it had the Carmela / Furio stuff playing out. Hilarious.

Actually, R151, I think Tony Soprano was kind of dumbed down. I think he was portrayed as a "teddy bear" a lot of the time.

R153, I see your point but even then, we always know something will happen to make Tony snap and do or say something even worse than the last time. It's a constant cycle with him and it's (I think) a driver of tension on the show. For every scene we see Tony doing something nice, there are at least two or three of him doing something despicable. In this way, the show allows you to like the characters but also prevents us from loving them the way we would, say, Jessie on Breaking Bad.

[quote] The show never recovered after Nancy Marchand's death, IMO. The conflict with Tony and Livia was the foundation of the show.

That's interesting. I never thought of it that way. If Nancy Marchand hadn't died, it would have been interesting to see how her character would have further driven Tony's character. The unloving Italian mother was what made the show interesting & what gave Tony an Achilles' heel (he felt inadequate b/c he could never make his mother love him).

The Janice character was similar to the Livia character, vis-a-vis Tony. Sort of emasculating, I guess.

The Sopranos is Italophobic TRASH.

[quote] The Sopranos is Italophobic TRASH.

They should have recast Livia with one of the Golden Girls.

R148, totally agree about the gambling episode. It was probably the worst one, along with the “Columbus Day” episode.

The show definitely changed after Livia died but it was good in a whole different way. The writing was still witty, characters well developed and believable, but it became even darker and more concerned with existential questions. Tony was an awful person - they all were - but they were written in a way that made you kind of sympathize anyway, enough to be interested in seeing what happened to them.

R159, I agree with you. I think their is only so much they could have done with that mother-son relationship. I think the show got better after she died.

*there

[quote] Tony was an awful person - they all were - but they were written in a way that made you kind of sympathize anyway, enough to be interested in seeing what happened to them.

I see it a bit differently. Tony is often an ok guy, but regularly does truly awful things. There’s good and bad in everyone.

[QUOTE] I completely agree. The show never recovered after Nancy Marchand's death, IMO. The conflict with Tony and Livia was the foundation of the show.

I don’t understand the thinking of people like R152. What exactly were they going to do with Livia next if she stayed on the show? Trying to have her son murdered was clearly the pinnacle. What would she do, try to get him wacked again? Livia’s presence would’ve been further and further reduced to background music before they probably killed her off anyway. God rest Nancy’s soul but the character served its purpose just fine.

It was a fun watch for me when it first came out. Why? Because my family was pretty mobbed up. Only they were the mob of the 1960's sort of like Uncle Junior or even Tony Soprano's mom. When the mob started with drugs it was the beginning of the end.

R163, agreed. I was getting tired of Livia in season 2 and it was obvious they did as much with that story as they could.

According to Chase, if Marchand had lived, Livia's Season 3 plotline was all related to the Scatino bustout airline ticket issue. Her getting arrested at the airport at the end of Season 2 was the set-up for that. Tony would have had to play nice with his mother in an attempt to keep her from testifying against him. Then Marchand died, and that plotline died with it.

To me, R163, it would've pushed Chase and his writers to be more inventive rather than concocting a typical mafia plotline. It was Tony and his relationship to Livia that made the show special from other mafia movies and TV shows that came before it. In all honesty, minus the ingenious device of having a goombah like Tony seeing a psychiatrist for therapy, all the themes and plot points that followed after Livia's death played like a riff off of Scorsese's greatest hits.

I'm sure back in the early aughts, the show felt groundbreaking, but watching it now, it doesn't feel all that original, despite the stellar acting from most of its leading players.

[quote] I think Michael Imperioli is a pretty handsome guy, which shows what a good actor he is. He made Christopher thoroughly unlikable.

I agree. Michael Imperioli was quite attractive on the show and couldn't imagine another actor playing Christopher as superb as him.

[quote] What exactly were they going to do with Livia next if she stayed on the show? Trying to have her son murdered was clearly the pinnacle. What would she do, try to get him wacked again?

That's a good question. Carmela stole money from Tony (from the bird feed storage) and also made steps towards divorce. Both of those things were extreme, in that world. But, I thought the writing was good and they created new stuff for Carmela and Tony to do. Like renegotiate the marriage (spec house, more material things for Carmela, brought out the real mercenary side of Carmela).

Had Livia lived she would've kept attacking Tony until she turned him into the little shrub like her husband. Livia is Gloria Trillo. Livia is Jennifer Melfi. Livia is Carmela. That's who Tony turned to for reassurance to his manhood, and self- esteem. But Livia had already put a poison pill in Anthony that he couldn't change his comfort zone

Suddenly this and other old HBO programs are no longer available on Amazon without an HBO subscription or paying per view.

Looks like the GQ guy screwed it up for everybody.

I’m watching The Sopranos on Prime without interruption, R171.

I hope it stays that way for you. Yesterday I watched Season Six Ep 15. Today I see :

"Seasons 1-6 included for $14.98 with HBO subscription".

Maybe its Xfinity.

I have Fios and I got the same message today, r173.

Nope, it's Amazon Prime, too. I watched a few episodes on Prime yesterday, and today you have to either buy the episodes or subscribe to HBO.

Fuckers. I'll just dig out my DVDs and watch those.

Wow wtf. That sucks. I actually have every season purchased on iTunes so it’s no big deal, but I preferred Amazon Prime’s UI over Apple TV+. It’s more binge friendly.

On Prime, you can skip the theme song. I don't think you can on Hulu.

It's not on Canadian Prime.

R175, if you have the DVDs, there are a couple of episodes that have a separate "making of" video. E.g., the "Lake House" episode where Bobby Bacala and Tony have the epic, knock-down, drag-out fist fight during a Monopoly game. Steven Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) narrates that one.

Confirmed that it's pay-to-watch on Amazon Prime.

Isn’t HBO (or HBO Go) allowing it be streamed for free these days? I’m pretty sure they are.

Not sure it’s still free, but this is from April.

I love the DVD episodes that have commentary by David Chase. The one on "Army of One" (the episode that features the death of Jackie Jr.) has a really incredible breakdown of the scene where Tony encourages Ralphie to give Jackie Jr. a pass. I never got the undercurrents of the scene (Tony wants Jackie Jr. dead but wants Ralph to bear the moral weight of the decision since Tony has to worry about Meadow's reaction) until I listened to Chase's commentary.

It was free until like a day ago. I was watching it on prime for free for about a week and then yesterday, It asks me to pay per episode or for the whole season. Hope this isn't the case for The Wire too!

[quote] It was indeed full of filler, including the egregious Vito gay storyline.

I remember driving past that skeevy motel in Ft Lee for years on the approach to the GW Bridge. When the Sopranos was airing I thought “Why don’t they use this skeeve motel on the show? It’s perfect.” Finally in season 6 they whacked Vito there. But they didn’t use it to its full glory. They filmed it at night. In daylight, the motel was much more skank looking.

I’m sure it’s been torn down by now

All HBO shows yanked from Prime. The streaming wars totally suck.

On May 27, HBO Max is being launched. Wonder if that has something to do with it

R170 Gloria and the Polish/ Armenian gumada were representations of Livia. Carmela was the one thing Tony 'did well with', Melfi said as much when she told Tony that he'd never divorce her, she may leave him but his ego wouldn't let the one woman he chose well go and dent his ego.

Janice took up Livias role, the episode Soprano Home Movies does a great job of showing that toxic dynamic.

I loved that they used Fountains of Wayne in the show. It used to be on a little overpass you took to get to the Wayne NJ mall. I loved that place. I remember when the episode aired all these people said “Hey that place is named after the band!” Nahhhh. Other way around.

I loved reading the recaps on TWoP

[quote] Gloria and the Polish/ Armenian gumada were representations of Livia.

Who is the "Polish/Armenian" gumada?

Svetlana was one of my favorite characters; she was Russian. She was the cousin of Irina, Tony's first gumar. The actress who played Irina could not act, though, as witnessed in the episode where Tony beat up councilman Zellman.

I meant Irina, not sure why I mixed up her nationality.

But she was another 'black hole of misery'. (Never liked Tony whipping the politician he worked with when she got with him later on).

Someone mentioned above a gay storyline with Vito's character so I went and checked out a few YT clips. Pretty darn cringey, especially the scene where he gets caught in the bar and tries to pass it off as "just a joke". You'd think someone hiding their sexuality for a long period of time would be more "prepared" than that, they should know what to say by now should the ever be faced with a scenario where they might be "exposed". Closeted men know the drill and one who's involved in the Mafia would undoubtedly be more discreet about it. Those clips were loathsome but not as much as the homophobic comments underneath. Hardly surprising such a show would attract a ugly fan base of homophobic trash. I suppose that's the majority? Idk... And of course they're perverted lesbian fetishists too... (eyeroll)

What would be your excuse as a captain in a Mafia family being caught dancing in a gay bar while wearing a leather motorcycle outfit? He was distraught and intoxicated.

[quote] Never liked Tony whipping the politician he worked with when she got with him later on

I hated that too. After Tony gave that guy his blessing that it was OK. I just finished Season 5.

SPOILER ALERT: Fuck Tony, Silvio and especially Christopher for killing Adriana! She didn't deserve that. Probably the most genuinely nice of all the cast of characters. I guess we shouldn't be surprised Christopher threw her under the bus since he beat her up like 1000 times.

R194 I agree and think Christophers blah-oops-baby-mama turned wife belongs in the fuck them list you've started.

*Spoiler (?)* Also I really hated Phil Leotardo, was a brutal but effective scene where Tony used the bar step to crack one of Phils guys skull in two by the jaw for speaking inappropriately to Meadow.

Yeah? Maybe you’re a falmbé.

R195, I hate Phil too but not as much as I hated Tony, Richie Aprile, Christopher, etc. I hate what Phil did to Vito though. I thought the gay part of Vito's storyline was handled poorly until he moved to New England. But then he fucked over the firefighter guy and I thought that was fucking shitty.

[QUOTE] Yeah? Maybe you’re a flambé.

Very grateful for this thread. I loved The Sopranos! Like many here, I only watched since the quarantine started. I didn’t expect to love The Sopranos as much as I did. My only criticism is the two episode Tony dream sequence. Unlike R69, I found this the show a perfect follow up to Ozark. I think I will move on to The Wire and Breaking Bad now.

IMO, Phil Leotardo was a great character, whether you personally "liked" him or not. Just like Ralph Cifaretto and Janice Soprano, great characters that you wouldn't want to be friends with. Paulie Walnuts was also despicable but hilarious. Phil's reaction to finding out Vito was gay was believable, whether or not you liked how he treated the Vito character. Vito was married to Phil's cousin. So, makes sense that the Phil character is even more incensed.

Paulie was my favorite character from the whole Sopranos gang. The actor who plays Phil is very attractive, it's a shame he died. He was 80 when he passed! He looked much younger. Regarding the Vito being gay storyline, it was ridiculous that he would be caught out in the open, giving head to someone in their car at work. I know people can be impulsive and stupid when it comes to sex, but come on. And then they went and made him creepy by having him hit on/threaten Meadow's boyfriend when he was clearly uncomfortable with it. But I feel like the story got much better when he left home and started discovering himself in New England.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Hey Spider, that fuckin bandage on your foot is bigger than your fuckin head.

One of my favorite scenes of the series. Phil probably reminded Tony of his own dad. Phil was a cool dresser.

I was in love with Christopher when I was younger (he was my first big crush) and first watched. On rewatch he really is an incredibly evil man who deserved what he got. He’s still a babe tho. Adriana was truly the only victim who was in the family. Carmela was a willing participant.

Ralphie was the funniest character on the show, and also the most evil. I was bummed when Tony whacked him because he was such a fun character.

R206 you’re so high on skag you wouldn’t know if he had your mother’s muff on his head.

Ralph went too far when he called Paulie's mom in the middle of the night: "This is Detective Mike Hunt, Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, Police Department. You have a son, Peter Paul?"

No one deserved to have his head sawed off and placed in a bowling ball bag quite like Ralph.

She was a who-OUR-ahhHH

So dreamy

Michael Imperioli has nice nipples too. I love that one shirtless scene of him sitting outside the beach house Tony was planning to buy.

[quote] No one deserved to have his head sawed off and placed in a bowling ball bag quite like Ralph.

Don't forget the toupee! I was disturbed by that whole scene until the toupee came off, then I was laughing loudly.

I used Amazon Prime Video to watch the HBO shows that are all gone. I literally have no use for it anymore.

Have you seen Watchmen on HBO R214? Best show of the decade. HBO will keep on churning out great product into the future. Sorry, I missed Tiger King

One that rings out to me is when Tony's son uttered the line "What, no fucking ziti?" That's me in a nutshell.

OP's picture shows Gandolfini at his hottest big daddy bear.

Shame. He had a hot ass but he couldn't live forever.

David Chase just revealed that Tony did die at the end. Well I’m glad I didn’t have to see it.

R219, damn. But I thought gangsters didn't kill other gangsters in front of their families 🤣

Phil Leotardo did get popped in front of his wife and grandchildren at the gas station. Assuming Tony’s murder was revenge for that, maybe they did it to send a message that the Jersey family was wrong for violating that rule.

R221, that's what i would think too. Random: Phil was so attractive to me.

Being able to watch through Prime ended, for me, on 5/21. I also have an HBO subscription so it automatically switched to that, I didn't even realize I was watching it through HBO for a few days. It just picked up somewhere on season 3 where I left off.

I've since finished the series and all I can say about the end, without giving anything away to spoil it, WTF!

I never understood why people were so aggrieved/confused by the ending. Did you really expect to see them spray the family with gunfire? Was the show ever that obvious?

The ending was not hard for me to grasp and I wouldn't have wanted the Gunfight at the OK Corral, anyway.

R224, i really think the ending is one of the best endings--if not THE best--in television history. There really was no better way to end it.

There might have been a better way to end it, but seeing Tony get his brains splattered all over his family at that table would’ve been a far WORSE way to end it.

R225, the best ending in TV history was Newhart, waking up in bed in his old sitcom with his sitcom wife from that show, having dreamt the entire run of his current show. That was better.

R227, that sound very Lynchian. Interestesing.

That doesn’t sound like a good ending to me. It was all a dream? Nothing we saw really happened? What the hell is that?

FFS, R229. Maybe watch it, schmuck.

The way Janice Soprano deals with her "Karen" is the way to handle them.

R229, at the end of his second sitcom, Newhart woke from a dream in bed with his wife from his first sitcom, on the set that was their bedroom in the first sitcom. The joke was that his character in the first sitcom had dreamt the entire second sitcom, which had to this point no intersection whatever with the first one. Different characters and setting.

R227, though correct in his assertion that this remains the best TV ending ever, didn't explain it very well.

Television endings are subjective.

I am not being paid to write what I watch on TV or films. I don't want to have to guess or imagine the ending. I want a goddamn written ending.

I watched every week because my partner loved it. I hated it and I’m full blooded Italian. They were all horrible characters.

Horrible in what sense, R235?

Horrible characters R235 because you could identify them in your own family tree?

If they say spaghetti and meatballs, you tell them orecchiette with broccoli rabe.

There were some of the best characters ever written for any medium. They surpassed the ones on Breaking Bad who do seem cartoonish by comparison. But The Sopranos is so cynical, I would never watch it again, even if I acknowledge it's one of the five (or so) greatest shows ever made.

R232, fuck you. I explained it just fine, bitch.

R234, the ending was pretty clear to me. SPOILER: You hear someone you don't see coming in by the ring of the bell at the diner's door. Tony looks up. Quick blackout. You'd have to be simple not to know the blackout signifies he's about to be killed.

Tony Soprano died. The Sopranos brought up the issue brilliantly because we can't accept death and grief in real life, just like we can't for this charismatic, goon, Tony Soprano

I could have accepted Tony Soprano's death without grief.

Though I'd have been happier to see Dr Melfi cop it. What an idiot.

First time viewer binge watching season 3 now. For me, it's not quite as compelling as Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul (that's my opinion, cancel me, IDC) but I'm really enjoying it nonetheless. Random dislikes so far: can't stand the way Tony eats with that fussy, food stabbing motion he always uses; the mother was so relentlessly awful that I had to fast forward everytime she appeared (glad she died); Adriana has a hard, unattractive face; Steven Van Zant's acting is very mannered and one note; the psychiatrist's voice is annoying. Likes: Uncle Junior is a cantakerous old cunt but they haven't enfeebled him as TV often does when people get old - he's OG for sure.; the casting; the writing and especially some of the one-liners; overall great concept and story.

Forgot to mention another like. Furio - handsome dude, and the way he delivers his tough-guy lines with the Italian accent always cracks me up.

There are people just like Livia Soprano, R243--black holes of bitterness and manipulation. I think she's hilarious. And that part was the cherry on the cake of the great Nancy Marchand's career.

[SPOILERS] I finished my first revisit yesterday. I totally went full force (five days it took me).

Thoughts ...

I maintain that Raphie (Joey Pants) and Tony B (Steve Buscemi) were still the best temporary (1 or 2 seasons) main cast-members. My estimation of season 6+ improved dramatically, as did my regard of Edie Falco's acting (I must have been asleep when I originally watched the Whitecaps episode) and Dr. Melfi's character. I alway maintained (foolishly) it crested with Adriana's death. Now, I feel the series held all the way to the final scene. Bobby's death ... damn ... so cinematic. And the way Tony made that one guy lose his teeth ... wow. The acting Gandolfini did when he finished Christopher off ... I think originally I must have struggled with the darkness of Season 6+ (which was darker than any other season IMO), and I just couldn't accept how close to the bone they got.

And I'm glad they ended the show in blackout; what an iconic way to go and it got people talking about it all these years later. And, we all know Tony died, as the clues were all there ("Members Only", Tony's 3 O'Clock to the bathroom, the times Meadow "saved" him, etc). "Less" really is more. I think showing Tony getting clipped would have had to have been epic (if they chose to show it), and I'm hard-pressed to believe they could have topped Bobby's death. It took me all these years to finally appreciate the blackout. And it's very easy to imagine what happens with the rest of the characters, so it's not really necessary to have any of it spelled out.

I don't really think there was much fat to trim in the whole series. And, I'm not sure there was anything they left out. They used possibly anything and everything that was available to that world to maximum effect. Of course, I was left wanting more. The show was perfect. It really does deserve to be called the best TV series of all-time, or Top 5 (but all-time IMO).

BTW, Joey Pants just did an interview with WTF Podcast (it's decent).

*Of course, I consider Livia part of the original cast. Marchand was out of this world.

I remember that Chase said in an interview that Tony's kids will lead better lives than Tony and Carmela did. Meadow will never go to law or medical school, but she's marrying a high-profile lawyer who, despite his mob connections, is not a career criminal. AJ will become a low-level movie producer with Carmine Jr.'s company, cranking out cheesy straight-to-video (or, these days, straight-to-streaming films), but he won't be a killer with the weight of the world on his shoulders like his father. So, even though the Soprano kids won't be what Tony wanted them to be, they'll be okay.

I always imagined that Carmela's business tanked ruling the housing crisis/recession of 2008. She took the money Tony had stashed away for her, the money she'd made in stocks, and sold the house at a profit (as Tony Soprano's former house WOULD sell even during a market crisis). Then she married some handsome, non-criminal schlub like Victor Musto (the wallpaper guy) who would stay faithful and do exactly what she told him to do. Again, a real improvement over the pressures of being lead mob wife.

To sum up, Tony's death, once they got over the shock, would have been the best thing that could happen to his family. It's clear in the last season that he's a black hole of bitterness that poisons everything around him. If he'd lived, he'd have made them all more and more miserable the same way Livia did to her family.

I forgot! Johnny Sack's eyes! Mesmerising. Was it the makeup? The eyebrows? Anyone else felt this way?

My old neighbour tried out for Janice. Aida Turturro was superb, but Patricia would have been so great as well! (trust me!)

I like your thoughts, R248. But, I think Meadow will become a lawyer as well and end up defending criminals like her father. You see her slowly shedding her youthful ideals as she gets older, and becoming more about self-preservation. I do think the kids end up avoiding being completely immersed in their father's world. But, Meadow was smart, and I don't think the apple ends up falling too far from the tree.

Also, from previous discussions, I didn't mind the dreams. Chase wasn't that self-indulgent and it fits into the psychological themes of the series. They fit (for me). I hated Test Dream when I originally saw it (but I wasn't ingratiated enough to the show at the time).

As far as Marchand taking Livia's Season 3 storyline, etc, with her to the grave, I don't see it as a great loss for the series. I don't feel there was all that much more to mine in the character that was of much detriment to the show. We got the idea after two seasons, and I imagine the use of her would have become less and more economical. They were also able to save the dementia material for Uncle Junior to good effect (perhaps even of equal greatness to what they would have ended up doing with Livia).

And, finally, I have a greater appreciation for the Vito storyline and the gay content, especially in the context of the realistic homophobic characters. When you look at a show like The Sopranos, there are not a lot of redeeming characters. I even disagree with previous comments about Arianna. I loved her, and, yes, she was torn, and she tried to get out. But, that was only because she was forced to! Otherwise, she was happy--like Carmella--to enjoy the spoils of her man's bloody deeds. I only feel this way now after the rewatch. HOWEVER, when you look at truly redeeming characters, you need look no further than Vito's beau Jim up in New Hampshire. He leads a simple, clean life, part of the community, respected, and a volunteer firefighter. For all those uptight about gender presentation in media (not this matters to me), he's also a top and fairly butch/masculine. John A. Costelloe played Jim in four episodes. Right now, I can't name very many characters who were bereft of most flaws. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Charmaine Bucco. The "worst" thing she did was passive-aggressive tell Carmella she slept with Tony. But, frankly, Carmella was being a super-cunt to her (the condescending hand thing) at the time. A nice touch was the last time we see Charmaine is when she leaves Carmella at the table and she says goodbye with her hand (LOL!). So, yeah, Charmaine was petty, but whatever. She was a hard worker at the end of the day, put up with Artie's shit and she took good care of herself.

Listen, I just googled Costelloe and I was sad to find out that he committed suicide 12 years ago at age 47. :(

*Sorry, yes, Livia also may have suffered from dementia, but I'm not sure what else they would have one with her after the airline ticket storyline that would have been any different to what they did with Uncle Junior's latter episodes, as well as Paulie Walnut's adoptive mother.

SPOILER ALERT:

R250, she pretended to suffer from dementia in order to protect herself from her son after she and Junior tried to have him wacked.

Yeah, I know. I tried to be ambiguous about it in my words, so no one would call me out. lol Obviously, that didn't work.

Last night, I rematched the season three episode where Livia died. The CGI for Livia's last scene was just awful and it's one of the few times Gandolfini seems to be phoning it in. Understandable.

BUT, it's one of my all-time favorite episodes because of the post-funeral reception back at the house. Janice forcing everyone to listen to "If I Loved You" (btw, what a perfect favorite song for Livia), Christopher nattering on, stoned out of his gourd, all the awkward sharing, the woman in the wheelchair telling everyone about how "Lee" would always be the first person to let you know when someone died or was in the hospital, and Tony gritting his teeth the whole time while he clearly wants to kill Janice. (I'm ashamed to admit it, but that was pretty much the dynamic between my brother and I at our father's funeral. He was intent on making everyone FEEL and PARTICIPATE and I just wanted to let sleeping dogs lie.)

Oh, and the end of the episode with Tony watching that Jimmy Cagney movie and crying; perfect.

I finished watching the series, it took me 3 weeks, and when I posted to this thread I was very careful not to give away too much to spoil it for people, like me, who had never seen it before. R246, you do realized you spoiled things for people who haven't seen the entire series yet. That wasn't a nice thing to do. Although I do get posters needs to discuss any part of the show they want. DL should have some way of posting spoilers in a way that only people who choose to read them can.

I don't remember which website it was because it was many years ago, but I used to go to a OLTL website that allowed for spoilers to be hidden, like a post inside another post or something like that. I learned my lesson here where I was once posting about the soap GH and I tried to post something that was a plot giveaway way down by warning not to scroll down if you don't want to know and I scrolled way down to post the spoiler. Well when I looked at what I posted there was the spoiler, right on top of my first sentence of don't scroll down if you don't want to know.. I felt terrible and hope to this day I didn't spoil the story for too many people.