Theatre Gossip #387- "Fosca Does Zoom" Edition

I liked it. Donna was terrific.

Most OPs get criticized for their Theatre Gossip thread titles. This one made me laugh. Nice job.

Thanks, R2. And I had no burning desire to do one. I just saw we didn't have a new thread. : D

La LuPone vs. La Streisand. Actually she makes a good point

Another clip. Several others on youtube

THE Broadway Zoom joke was Stephen Colbert's - The Zoom Where it Happened.

Donna Murphy was terrific and I loved Someone in a Tree. Patti was good. Thought that Bernadette’s unaccompanied singing was a mistake. Mandy...no comment. As much as I admire Baranski, she is not a singer. The rest of the evening ranged from fine to meh.

I have to admit that the two "hits" of the evening, "Someone in a Tree" and "Ladies who Lunch" didn't really do it for me. I didn't like the older guy at all in "Someone..." and Ann Harada's voice didn't really blend well with the others. "Ladies..." was meh. My favorite was Chip Zein, followed by Stokes, Linda Lavin and Judy Kuhn.

Typical of these things, strong hits, strong misses. Lin Manuel should stick to writing at this point. Melissa Erico was the big surprise. Benanti in the bathroom will be done by drag queens for years. Mandy should have wandered into the woods and never come out.

Where was Emily Skinner?

I’d like to see an article comparing the pay cuts that the heads of N.Y.C. arts organizations have taken. A few of them have put out press releases about what they have done in terms of overall staff furloughs and senior staff members reducing/giving up salaries, but there has been noticeable silence on that subject from some of the largest not-for-profits.

[quote]but there has been noticeable silence on that subject from some of the largest not-for-profits.

Some of the for-profits have given back their government loans. I wonder if any of the not-for-profits are bold enough to do that.

Why has Baranski never played Joanne? Too on the ... wait for it ... nose?

[quote]Why has Baranski never played Joanne?

Joanne needs an edge to her personality, which Baranski doesn't have. It's the same reason Debra Monk failed in the role. Both actresses are too likeable. They don't have that cutting edge.

[quote] Joanne needs an edge to her personality, which Baranski doesn't have. It's the same reason Debra Monk failed in the role. Both actresses are too likeable. They don't have that cutting edge.

I would hardly characterize Baranski as likable. She's brittle as fuck.

I imagine it's just the luck of the draw. Unlike Lupone or Monk (God love 'em both) Baranski is always working. TV mostly She's not going to drop everything to play a supporting role in a musical and any concert versions of COMPANY aren't going to schedule around her.

Yes, Baranski can be brittle and sarcastic, but she's not threatening. Joanne had to be written for Stritch because very few others have been able to capture that bitter quality like Stritch did. Joanne is more than just a rich, bored woman. She's being eaten up from the inside out. She's the nasty side of marriage.

Bring back acerbic!

Most of the street freaking out because the Fall is quickly leaving the room...

[Quote] she's not threatening.

Tell that to Doctor DICK!

I still wish Joanna Gleason had done it in one of the early revivals.

Bob Fosse - It's Showtime.

Incident at Vichy.

Louise Redknapp?! Was Samantha Fox unavailable?

Crazy For You.

Thanks to the poster in the previous thread for posting Someone In a Tree. I SO wish that recording of Pacific Overtures was less grainy/blurry. I even more SO wish someone (Lincoln Center? the National Theatre?) would reconstruct the original production with Aronson's and Klotz's sets and costumes and a full orchestra. I wish a lot of things, but, as Bloody Mary said, You got to have a dream to make a dream come true.

Sheltering in place, I watched the DVD of Passion yesterday. I saw the original production and cast and was just Meh... about it at the time. I hadn't seen it since and appreciated it much more this time. (And WHET to Jere Shea and his beautiful chest, he asked from the shallow end of the pool.)

[quote]Bloody Mary said, You got to have a dream to make a dream come true.

That song has been banned by the social justice warrior brigade.

The Ladies Who Lunch was entertaining but more proof that Meryl isn't a singer and adding fuel to the fire that she must have been augmented for Into the Woods.

Also want to note from a discussion on the prior thread about the National's production of "Angels in America" that our lovely contributor posted the link to...I watched the first part of it and....

Wow, it WAS really awful wasn't it?

ALL the performances are meh. The design is stupid (HATED the rotating set changes and neon) and the staging is a dull mess. The whole thing was glacially paced and the actors seemed bored, listless with zero energy and little connection to one another.

WHY the fuck was that transferred?

R26 Jere Shea chose "Passion" over transferring from the Old Globe to Broadway with the 1994 revival of "Damn Yankees." Can't blame him, although it allowed Jarrod Emick to win a Tony when he was brought in to play Joe Hardy. In 1997, he opened the "High Society" tryout in San Francisco but was replaced by Stephen Bogardus shortly before the beginning of 1998 Broadway previews. After that he quit acting, at least for a time.

" I even more SO wish someone (Lincoln Center? the National Theatre?) would reconstruct the original production with Aronson's and Klotz's sets and costumes and a full orchestra. "

ME first, r26!!!

Was I the only one who watched the National Theatre Live's Twelfth Night? I thought I'd seen enough Twelfth Nights, but I largely enjoyed this one. For once, Sirs Toby and Andrew were actually funny or at least funny-adjacent. Sure, there were some directorial choices that made me think Whuh...? (Malvolia's strip tease the main one), but on the whole I wish I'd seen it at the National, largely so I could figure out how that set worked (and see Oliver Chris in person).

I also watched the Globe Theatre's R&J up to the balcony scene. Largely a traditional staging, but the Mercutio and Benvolio (one of the most thankless of roles) were very good, and the actor playing Peter got laughs I never knew were there. Bonus points for Benvolio being played by Jack Farthing, another actor I'd like to see in person.

No one wants to see a revival of Follies or Pacific Overtures, except a few geriatric theater queens. They would be financial disasters.

Art isn't easy, r 33.

Piggybacking from r29 and the previous thread: ANGELS IN AMERICA is an extravagantly ambitious and brilliant play in many respects (the fact that I remember the characters names is telling--how many other contemporary plays boast singular (non-historical) and memorable creations like a Blanche DuBois or Willy Loman?). But unlike, say, STREETCAR or SALESMAN, it fails to fulfill its premise. How could it? The play promises a healing message of messianic proportions which it doesn't deliver. If it did, it would be beyond human ken and comprehension, like God or eternity, and defy articulation. Sure, the benediction and blessing at the end is benign and uplifting...but not the transcendent event for which the audience has been waiting for six hours. Even so, it is a remarkable accomplishment and easily the finest American play of the last half-century.

"Lin Manuel should stick to writing at this point." As long as it doesn’t include "composing," please.

The only thing I watched from the 90th fete is Someone In A Tree and it didn't work for me either, r8.

I was done with that NT Twelfth Night in about two minutes. I am so over "contemporized" Shakespeare. Context counts.

Oh for chrissakes, r33, it's a wishful fantasy production with the original designs. Don't you worry your pretty little head. No money will be lost.

Where is Jarrod Emick now ?

Jarrod is raising a brood somewhere in the Old west.

What I've heard about Jere Shea is that he left the business because he was treated so abominably by James Lapine during PASSION, and he never really recovered from that. Can anyone confirm? As for Jarrod Emick, reportedly what killed his career was that the was always high, though I don't know if I've ever heard the specific circumstances of him being fired from ALL SHOOK UP.

Also just wanted to say, the INCIDENT AT VICHY that's linked to above was really great onstage, so I urge anyone and everyone to make time to watch the video.

R35 = geriatric theater queen.

20 years ago, the revival of THE MUSIC MAN opened on Broadway with Craig Bierko to popular acclaim.

He reappeared (oh so briefly) this year in that play at MTC, but WHET that career?

Most performers don't make it to the top, or stay there long.

I'm sure she's a nice woman, but what was Maria Friedman doing in the Sondheim special (singing "Broadway Baby" of all things)?

Has she ever performed on Broadway? Did someone cancel at the last minute? Or just a shoutout to all the Sondheimites in the UK?

Giving a second listen to Lin Manuel M's "Giants In the Sky."

Making me wish I'd never given it a first listen.

LMM, I love you, I love HAMILTON, but this is just terrible.

Didn't she do "The Woman In White"? Are London productions (and performers) of Sondheim automatically of no consequence?

[quote] ME first, [R26]!!!

[quote]—FOLLIES

Follies is a greedy bottom.

r39 = one of those sneering types.

Maria Friedman has done a lot of Sondheim in London, most notably Dot at the National and Fosca in the West End. She’s also a good friend of his, I believe.

I wish she would have brought the belt a bit earlier in the song.

So many people seem to think that "stardom" is this never ending thing you get and it should always mean you're an A level star from start to finish with big roles, and publicity, and fame and big bucks and ....

That's only reality for a TINY handful of people. For many performers who achieve that "star" level of success, they're lucky to get that one major hit and a peak period of exposure lasting a few years.

[quote]Didn't she do "The Woman In White"? Are London productions (and performers) of Sondheim automatically of no consequence?

MAYBE you're joking, feebly, but THE WOMAN IN WHITE is not a Sondheim show. Maria Friedman directed that London production of MERRILY, which was awful but was praised nonetheless, and it was made into a cinema event. I think that's her major connection to Sondheim.

[quote]20 years ago, the revival of THE MUSIC MAN opened on Broadway with Craig Bierko to popular acclaim. He reappeared (oh so briefly) this year in that play at MTC, but WHET that career?

First of all, I think that MUSIC MAN got mixed reviews. A lot of people felt Bierko was doing a straight-up Robert Preston imitation, and were not pleased. Aside from that, Bierko apparently has made some bad decisions, like turning down the role of Chandler in FRIENDS. Plus he's had some disasters in his career, like appearing in that godawful GUYS AND DOLLS on Broadway and being fired from MATILDA very quickly. Plus his weight has fluctuated and he has lost in looks in recent years.

[quote]Giving a second listen to Lin Manuel M's "Giants In the Sky." Making me wish I'd never given it a first listen. LMM, I love you, I love HAMILTON, but this is just terrible.

LMM's singing voice is only passable, but he's an excellent singing actor, and "Giants in the Sky" isn't the kind of song that requires a really good voice. I thought his performance was just fine.

[Quote] Has she ever performed on Broadway?

[Quote] Didn't she do "The Woman In White"?

[Quote] Did someone cancel at the last minute? Or just a shoutout to all the Sondheimites in the UK?

[Quote] Are London productions (and performers) of Sondheim automatically of no consequence?

If you saw LMM in that Encores production of "Merrily" he's neither a good singer nor a good actor. Please, have some standards. At least he's a success at writing.

Dot Friedman....

Re Jere Shea: “Shea left acting in 1998 in order to spend more time with his family, working as deputy chief of staff to Massachusetts Governor Paul Cellucci among other positions. He returned to acting in a 2016 concert production of The Secret Garden. He starred in the 2019 Showtime series City on a Hill.”

Re: Craig Bierko. Thanks for the info. My only quibble is that I understand he and Matthew Perry were neck-in-neck to play Chandler on FRIENDS, but they went with Perry at the last minute. (It wasn't Bierko's role to turn down.) IMDB says:

[quote]The actor who came closest to play Chandler Bing (except for Matthew Perry ) was Craig Bierko. The creators later found out that he was coached by Matthew Perry.

In any event, that was in 1994, 6 years before THE MUSIC MAN.

Regardless: Bierko sounds like a once-hot actor who kind of tripped himself up. Looks, talent, magnetism... and yet.

Bierko has done a greater range of projects than Matthew Perry, has he not?

I would blow Craigy.

The Broadway production of "Sunday in the Park" left me cold. I thought it might be the show itself. I knew that Lapine is always a problem, unless you like your theater cold, cold, cold.

Then I saw "Sunday in the Park" at the National Theatre and saw for the first time just how beautiful it could be. The physical production was much simpler. Quast and Friedman were spectacular. I would love to see a bootleg of that production.

I didn't know the NT did Sunday. I would love to see their production, if someone has a link. I saw a bootleg of the Gyllenhaal/Ashford production, and it was fantastic. Although Jake doesn't have the vocal chops that Mandy has, he was wonderful, and Ashford was a revelation. I know they were supposed to have revived that in London this summer, but, I assume, that has been called off.

Well, Lapine did write the book, so there's that.

The NT Live Angels was hard going for the first hour or two. At first I thought the set was hideous, but in the end liked that there was actually a scenic progression that made sense. It was also the first Harper I saw who seemed like a real person rather than a writer's concept.

And usually Angels is dimishing returns but this production actually got stronger as it went on and Perestroika emerged as the stronger and bolder script.

Nathan Lane's accent was unconvincing and there were other questionable choices. But overall, this production made me like the play a lot more than I had.

The National Theatre created a lovely window card to publicize the show. The primary element was an image of Dot with a cut out in the shape an umbrella, through which there could be seen an aerial photograph of Manhattan. I linked it below. You can see the Chrysler Building and the Pan Am Building through the umbrella. They were printed and disseminated throughout the city.

Then someone at the National realized that "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" does not hang in New York City. It is in the permanent collection of The Art Institute of Chicago. So another run of window cards was created and distributed all over London, this time with Chicago visible through Dot's umbrella.

Mistakes like that are embarrassing and expensive. Read your text carefully!

Craig Bierko gave me the best orgasm of my life!

[quote]Has she ever performed on Broadway?

Is she in the legitimate theater?

[quote]Then I saw "Sunday in the Park" at the National Theatre and saw for the first time just how beautiful it could be. The physical production was much simpler. Quast and Friedman were spectacular. I would love to see a bootleg of that production.

I always thought Act 1 of "Sunday" was tolerable but Act 2 was a hopeless train wreck. How did the National improve on Act 2?

The acting, primarily. Better characterizations that better drove the narrative. Quast is infinitely warmer than Patinkin. Friedman's 'Children and Art' was deeply moving. It was beautifully sung and beautifully acted.

I didnt like Act 2 until I saw the Jake/Annaleigh version, either, R65, but that production changed my mind. Perhaps because it was difficult for Act 2 to be as sublime as that amazing Act 1 curtain-closer, that it always seemed "less than." Losing that helped balance the two acts. Also, I think Jake acted it better, so you could appreciate the frustrations of a modern artist a little better; Mandy seemed too rooted in the past, and harder to relate to as a modern, cutting edge artist. Act 2 also has some sublime songs. Children and Art. Move On. They are glorious.

Maria Friedman won an Olivier Award (Best Actress in a Musical) in 1997, starring in Stephen Sondheim's Passion. She appeared in Passion in the West End at the Queen's Theatre in 1996 as Fosca.

As well as other musical shows, Maria participated in Hey, Mr. Producer!, the concert celebrating the works of Sir Cameron Mackintosh, in which she sang "You Could Drive a Person Crazy," and "Broadway Baby."  Similarly, she participated in Sondheim Tonight live at London's Barbican Centre, singing "Losing My Mind" (from Follies) and "More" (from the film Dick Tracy).

In 2010, Friedman appeared as a soloist in the BBC Proms tribute to Stephen Sondheim at the Royal Albert Hall, London. She sang the role of Mrs. Lovett in Sweeney Todd opposite Bryn Terfel.

In 2012 she directed a revival of Sondheim's Merrily We Roll Along, which started at the Menier Chocolate Factory and transferred to the West End at the Harold Pinter Theatre in April to July 2013.

In addition, I think Stephen Sondheim is godfather to one of her children.

Why doesn't her Wiki include that she announced on TV in 2011 that she was set to play Sally in FOLLIES at the Kennedy Center?

I saw all three productions of “Sunday.” The original was astounding, because of the concept and the staging. Peters and Patinkin both magnificent. Then I saw the National transfer to the Roundabout, where I enjoyed the staging, particularly the computerized animations. But I didn't care for either of the performances or their singing.

It was the Gyllenhaal/Ashford production that blew me away. Their performances took the show to a new level. Ashford had the desperation of a poor woman always aware of class differences, which gave a real edge to her character. And, whereas Patinkin played Seurat as a cold workaholic, Gyllenhaal was almost bipolar, trying but failing to communicate his needs, and only able to relate to making art, his only real solace. So, what you had was two desperate, forlorn people, at cross purposes. And I felt their Act II made more sense, with a really exciting Chromalume, shooting light rays all over the theater.

Their voices seemed just fine, though Gyllenhaal amazed, because who’d have thought he could have managed it.

"so, what you had was two desperate, forlorn people, at cross purposes."

Hilarity int the theater ensues!

Hilarity is overrated.

Especially Hilarity's emails.

Give Maria Friedman a break. She had to have parts of her titties removed during and for years after her Broadway debut, until they just chopped them both off.

[Quote] She had to have parts of her titties removed during and for years after her Broadway debut, until they just chopped them both off.

Tacky. Very tacky.

I have NEVER understood why the Paris production of Sunday never gets any love here.

Love Mandy, but hearing the score without his vibrato is so refreshing, (here, the Dot has it instead).

I found this production felt like it was lead by an artist. The use of Serrauts' art, the sketches, watching it developed and changed, is just thrilling.

BUT, the moment in Sunday, when George goes into his art, and luxuriates in it, and revels in it, Oh Mary, it just makes me burst into tears.

I find Hilaria Baldwin's mentions in the newspapers kind of hilarious.

R76 I thought that was Rue McClanahan in the still. XD

I did not realize that the Roundabout production was a transfer of the National Theatre. Although I thought the animation and projections were amusing, I didn't care for the production at all. The two leads seemed too lightweight, and I sensed them acting and not existing. I didn't care what happened to them at all. And, yes, Ashley's awareness of class distinctions made a big difference in redefining the character, and I actually preferred her to Bernadette, whom I saw a number of times in the original production.

Bernadette Peters once covered the Golden Girls theme.

In a concert that demonstrated that she was no Bette Midler and why she had to come crawling back to Broadway.

R80 I had to guffaw at Queen_of_Domination's comment:

[quote]I forgot that she was a singer as well. I loved her as an actress first.

I forget that the public at large only knows Broadway actors from film or TV. I remember when The Sound of Music Live! aired several years ago, I saw many comments on YouTube about how surprised they were that "the woman from Private Practice can sing." LOL

Matthew Lopez wrote a lovely piece for Vogue on the future of the theater:

Now Playing On Broadway: Uncertainty, Unemployment And Displays Of Unity:

The Roundabout production of SUNDAY did not come from the National. It started at the Menier Chocolate Factory; transferred to the West End; and then to Bway.

That piece Lopez wrote was his usual self-centered, aren't I fabulous drivel.

Everytime I hear the name Matthew Lopez now, All I think of,is this.

[quote]I thought his performance was just fine.

Now, THAT'S a pull-quote!

I saw that NT angels in NY. Denise Gough was god awful on stage. Wasn't fond of Andrew Garfield either and was mystified by his Tony.

R88 Simple. The Tony Committee are a bunch of Anglophiles. I stopped taking them seriously when I realized that about them.

The Gyllenhaal/Ashford SUNDAY still seems to be selling tix online, although it certainly won't happen as scheduled. I hear that they both definitely want it to happen.

Denise Gough is such a cunt. She was just awful as Harper. And she was a total bitch in the show, no one liked working with her. Someone said that was why Russell Tovey elected not to come to Broadway, he'd had it with working with her. I thought it was a work conflict timing-wise? Oh well, it gave Lee Pace a chance to show off his cock.

Gough is going to be in one of the upcoming Disney+ Star Wars series. Baby Yoda is already refusing to work with her.

Anyone know where I can watch Oscar Isaac and Marisa Tomei's reading of 'Beirut'? I can't find it on youtube.

Tovey's absence was no loss.

I saw ANGELS in London, and I agree. Tovey was completely in over his head on this one. A sub par performance.

[quote] Bernadette Peters once covered the Golden Girls theme.

It wasn’t the Golden Girls Theme then. GG didn’t even start till more than five years after her concert. It was just a song called “Thank You For Being a Friend.”

He might have been better if he had a decent Harper to play opposite.

[quote]Usually, with most songs you really have to sit there and break down the lyrics and music and try to figure out how to interpret it, but with most of Sondheim's work, it's right there and there's not much extra digging you need to do. The music will tell you how you should feel.

What an interesting comment. Many people would say exactly the opposite about Sondheim's songs -- that, generally speaking, they're so complex that they need to be broken down and analyzed by performers MORE than songs by others.

[quote]It wasn’t the Golden Girls Theme then. GG didn’t even start till more than five years after her concert. It was just a song called “Thank You For Being a Friend.”

I don't know what song Peters sang, but for the record, the "Thank You for Being a Friend" song that was used as the them for THE GOLDEN GIRLS was a pre-existing song, written by Andrew Gold, son of composer Ernest Gold and Marni Nixon.

Can someone post the rest of Bernie's concert? I'd love to hear her sing real songs.

"Sunday" is one of my favorite musicals. I have seen several live productions: the NT, the wonderful Kennedy C with Esparza and Errico, the new one at Roundabout (also on the WE) but....my favorite production was the Chicago Shakespeare with Carmen Cusack and Jason Danieley. Pure perfection and I always cry at the end but the final coup de théâtre left me breathess. I flew back to Chicago to catch it three more times.

Why did they frequently perform songs at breakneck speeds in those "cabaret" style shows, such as the Bernie concert (yes, I know it was a large concert, not a supper club).

R93 Beirut.

THANK YOU! R102

Through no fault of anyone, really, but that reading of Beirut is painful to sit through due to all of the technical issues. If this is what theater is to become, take it out back and shoot it.

[quote]Denise Gough is such a cunt. She was just awful as Harper. And she was a total bitch in the show, no one liked working with her. Someone said that was why Russell Tovey elected not to come to Broadway, he'd had it with working with her.

If she was such a horror to work with, you have to wonder why the producers didn't decide to cut her loose before the move to Broadway. I mean, it's not like she was a star name that was going to sell tickets.

Brantley reviews Sondheim's 90th:

Yes, r98, that’s what was already said.

Surprised by all the negative comments about Gough's Harper. The NT Live was my first exposure to her and she was the standout to me. Nowhere in Marcia Gay territory but I found her riveting and then went to People, Places and Things to see her again. I have heard all the nightmare stories about working with her - but I thought the performance was really good. Different strokes.

[Quote] I have heard all the nightmare stories about working with her.

Details, please.

I saw Harden's Harper live, and Gough's version on the video. I MUCH preferred Gough. I thought Harden played Harper as too abstract a character, and I could not relate to her, or even think of her as a real person. She seemed like a concept and a plot device. Gough made me see the hurt person. I have read that she is not easy to work with, but I really enjoyed watching her performance.

I've only seen the b-roll, where Harden comes off as "special." Mary Louise Parker is the best of those I've seen.

No Way Out.

Buried Child.

Hamlet - Andrew Scott.

Thanks for posting to Google Drive.

re: Hamlet

404. That’s an error. The requested URL /get_player was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

^ Turn off link previews.

R117 tank you tank you

That Andrew Scott Hamlet a real disappointment, IMO.

Such handwringing above over a few weeks of isolation. My God, what if we were subjected to blitzes every night, had to wear gas masks, take shelter in the tube and live on rations as the Brits did for YEARS? There WAS art after Auschwitz, there WAS irony after 9/11 and there WILL be theater in a post-Covid world.

R119 The Blitz lasted for eight months, not years.

Does anyone have National Theatre's "Young Marx"?

Young Marx was a great idea but a terrible show.

R121 No, do not think it was captured.

Whatever it is there is some great singing through out "Dance Of The Vampires".

Michael Crawford sings the hell out of this... 1:04:35

and people are surprised to hear "Total Eclipse Of The Heart" but then they end up loving it. 1:07:22

R98 when material is as good as Sondheim's, I've found you don't need to dig as much. It's already there on the page. You're better off getting out of the way and letting the material speak for itself. When you're given less than excellent material, that's when you have to research and dig and try to figure out what they meant with this lyric and that.

I consider myself a fairly devoted Sondheim fan, but I just now watch my DVD of Passion for the first time and what a shitty show. When Donna Murphy does her first shriek from atop the stairs, I started howling with laughter. Happiness and Loving You are lovely songs, but I couldn't get into the story at all.

[quote][R121] No, do not think it was captured.

It was broadcast in theaters, so somebody must have captured it like they did the other NT Live shows.

R126, the problem with the show is the main character isn’t passionate; she’s psychotic

R126, I consider myself the same but I saw a preview and sat front row center aisle on opening night. You had to be in the room where it happened. It was a wrenching, fog-cutting death wail that shook me deeply as it was so unnatural and unexpected and set the tone for the rest of the performance - which I loved.

"Oh, Mary" - I know.

Saw "Passion" on Broadway and was going since a kid. I always talked to the matrons and I swear it was the only time I ever heard theater staff not liking the show and hoped for an new show soon.

Into the Light and Passion are the only shows I've ever seen in over 50 years of theater going where the audience started talking back to the actors and heckling them. At the end of Passion, when the doctor came out announced that Fosca had died, a huge wave of applause and cheers swept through the audience.

"the problem with the show is..."

...it's about Death (Thanatos), not Passion (Eros).

R127 Have a happy wait

I have seen Passion many times, though I only saw the video of the Broadway production. It is a fairly mainstream piece, much like a movie you would see at a Landmark Theatre. When you see that kind of movie in AMC theatre (as often happens after Oscar nominations), the audience has less patience, sophistication, and understanding.

Broadway audiences are typically not very smart. A lot of shows were seen as weird in their first run on Broadway and went on to have a great life in regional theaters.

R100, I loved that Chicago production! I had seen the earlier (not very good production). Though I think Gyllenhaal/Ashford was pretty definitive, Daniely/Cusack was equally so. The ending, where they recreated the painting with everyone in all white versions of their costumes, was stunning.

Anyone have any info on Betty Buckley and Drood? I know nothing about the show besides the concept and the awesome song Betty sings but I noticed she didn't even get a tony nom out of it... any story there?

At that performance of Passioni mentioned above at r131, Fosca at one point threw herself on her knees with a death grip around Giorgio's knees. She said something to the effect of "What can I do to prove how much I love you?" "Let go of his legs!" someone shouted and poor Donna Murphy and Jared Shea had to just remain there frozen until the laughter died down. They seemed used to it.

Audiences for a first-run Sondheim show are the upper echelon of theater sophisticates. In this instance, they rejected Passion. End of story.

The best case ever made for SITPWG was the Daniel Evans import from London, and it throws shade on every subsequent production.

I enjoyed her very much, r136. But I think her not getting a nomination had to do with the role as much as anything. Outside of her playing a trouser role, it wasn't showy.

r111. Harden was quite moving with the final monologue from the plane. I did not like Denise Gough in her role as "Harper." I thought MLP gave her usual performance--perfectly fine and, since it was filmed for TV, her usual mush-mouth didn't cause problems. Harden was my favorite.

r138

I loved that production... I saw it twice in 2 different trips to NYC

Didn't Buckley leave Drood fairly in its run? It may be that the focus for Leading Actress for the show was Cleo Laine--she was the event (replaced by Loretta Swit, ugh, and, IIRC, Karen Morrow who had the bounce and comic chops). I bet if Morrow had opened as Princess Puffer, Buckley might have been up for Lead and Morrow for Featured. I love Buckley on the OBC and it's one of my favorite shows. The revival was fun, but exciting. Stephanie J. Block was good, but she just foes not have the thrilling notes Buckley did (then). I adore Chita beyond all reason, but it was not as good a match of performer and role as one might have thought (bawdy dame)--her voice was becoming less steady (Kander and Ebb fashioned "The Visit" to the strengths that remained) and her cockney was all over the place. I gather she didn't enjoy it do much, as she prefers to be onstage rather than being offstage "socializing" with the stage hands.

Contemporary audiences on Broadway (for first run Sondheim or anything else) are hardly the highest echelons of anything. This is obvious to anyone who sees theater outside of New York, since regional theaters tend to have an extremely sophisticated audience. The audiences at CSC or Mitzi Newhouse or the Public are different from a show that unloads its unsold tickets on the tourists lined up at TKTS. Broadway audiences are not what they were decades ago.

Was it Buckley or one of the later ladies who played those roles who thought her part was too small and took to doing things like sneak behind an upstage window and appear to peer in and open a door seeming to eavesdrop and then creep out? I don't remember which performer it was or how it was resolved but I remember the rest of the cast being infuriated and there was talk of formal complaints to Equity.

[quote]Was it Buckley or one of the later ladies who played those roles who thought her part was too small and took to doing things like sneak behind an upstage window and appear to peer in and open a door seeming to eavesdrop and then creep out? I don't remember which performer it was or how it was resolved but I remember the rest of the cast being infuriated and there was talk of formal complaints to Equity.

I think it was Loretta Swit that did that.

[quote]I have seen Passion many times, though I only saw the video of the Broadway production. It is a fairly mainstream piece, much like a movie you would see at a Landmark Theatre.

Maybe because it was based on that type of movie? I'm assuming you already knew that, but it seems pertinent to your point.

How did PASSION manage to score so many Tony nods, winning several, including Best Musical?

Was it mainly due to Sondheim's reputation/prestige?

Did anyone see the London DROOD with Ernie Wise and DL fave Lulu?

The Daniel Evans SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE was better in London. I saw it at the Menier Chocolate Factory and the small orchestra was suitable for the small space. Jenna Russell was far superior to Ann-Jane Casey as Dot when I saw it on Broadway but that Studio 54 space needed a much larger orchestra.

Passion really is pretty awful. I know some have said that other productions have been better than the original, but I don't think I like the material enough to even give those a chance.

Would a new book help Passion?

Probably.

R124 I got to see “Dance of the Vampires” on Broadway and loved it, as did the rest of the audience. It was campy fun with incredible sets/special effects and Michael Crawford and Mandy Gonzalez singing their faces off. I honestly have no idea why it was such a big flop.

" Broadway audiences are not what they were decades ago. "

But that's exactly the audience we're talking about, not the contemporary audience circa 2020 (such as they are), but during the heyday of the Prince-Sondheim musicals, when the movers and shapers, the names in tomorrow's papers were the elite of NYC. They also attended the Met, the symphony, the ballet, the museums, etc. In short, the middlebrow, middle-class taste-makers, God bless 'em.

PASSION contains some of the most gorgeous (and unappreciated) songwriting in Sondheim's career: Happiness, I Read, I Wish I Could Forget You, the Flashback sequence, Is This What You Call Love, Loving You, No One Has Ever Loved Me. Yes, there's some filler (I hate all the soldiers' music) but not much.

The problem wasn't the score, and it wasn't poor Donna Murphy. It was Lapine's shitty book and direction. Yes, I saw it on Bway.

I don't know if PASSION is really ever salvageable, but it would have to start with that book.

We have allowed ourselves to slip

We have completely lost our grip

We have declined to an all-time low

Tarts have become the set to know!

No, r156, Donna wasn't the problem. She was quite good and deserved her Tony. That didn't stop me from sitting there and thinking "Oh would you just DIE already?".

PS: PASSION opened in 1994. My memory is a little hazy, but I don't recall the 90s being such a hot period for new musicals, even one by Sondheim.

Mostly, I recall the start of that decade with people gushing over CRAZY FOR YOU. Which was basically, a revisical, and one that mostly bored me. And the 90s ending with CONTACT (okay, it was 2000, but still...) which I thought was an abortion to new musical theatre.

Am I forgetting amazing new Bway musicals of that time?

"But that's exactly the audience we're talking about, not the contemporary audience circa 2020 (such as they are), but during the heyday of the Prince-Sondheim musicals, when the movers and shapers, the names in tomorrow's papers were the elite of NYC. They also attended the Met, the symphony, the ballet, the museums, etc. In short, the middlebrow, middle-class taste-makers, God bless "'em.

R 155, they've either died or moved. Now you're stuck with the woke SJWs and " Slave Play."

R159 The Scarlet Pimpernel!

SJWs are bad for the arts because they favor censorship. Seriously, you can't get anything produced on Broadway these days unless it has a woke agenda. Even the classics are being revived and shoehorned with far-left propaganda.

[quote] Am I forgetting amazing new Bway musicals of that time?

Fuck you, Meryl!

I felt the need to refresh my memory. I don't endorse this list: there are perhaps 5-7 wonderful shows on here, a few entertaining ones....

And a bunch of utterly forgettable crap.

PS: they weren't all on Bway, some were off.

FOSSE won Best Musical in 1999. It wasn't much of a musical; more of a revue.

Did anyone else think that Neil Patrick Harris was very community theater in the Sondheim birthday thing?

He sand lines that just died.

R166 I've never cared for him.

r167 = David

The 90s was dominated by that revisal of "Cabaret".

Yes, FOSSE winning helps demonstrate the point. The 90s were a strange decade for new musicals. After the success of RENT, musicals didn't quite know what they were anymore. OTOH, it's not like RENT ushered in that many more new shows with a contemporary sound, either, which always surprised me.

NPH was indeed underwhelming in the Sondheim concert, but I've been underwhelmed by his music theater chops before. Cute kids, anyway.

And did he really choose The Witch's Rap from ITW? God help him. It's probably my least favorite song from the show.

PASSION certainly has an awful book. But the original production was also saddled with awful direction and one of the least effective physical productions I've ever seen in a major production on Broadway. Very little on that stage, if anything at all, communicated to the audience that this was taking place in Italy. We saw from the costumes the era in which it was set, at least more or less. But most of what I saw on that stage could just as easily have been the United States around the time of the Civil War. That Donna Murphy was costumed to look like Melanie Hamilton did not help at all. It didn't help the audience understand what was unfolding on stage. And I doubt that it fed the creativity of the actors.

In about 2005, there was a concert presentation with Donna Murphy, Marin Mazzie and Michael Cerveris taking over for Jere Shea. Maybe a benefit for the Actor's Fund? I don't recall. I found it to be altogether more effective than the original production.

[quote]OTOH, it's not like RENT ushered in that many more new shows with a contemporary sound, either, which always surprised me.

After Rent, we realized that music in the 90s wasn't worth memorializing.

I still laugh that they got Stevie Wonder to record "Seasons of Love" thinking it was going to be a #1 hit on the charts. One critic said it sounded like they recorded Stevie getting castrated.

I also think that Paul Simon wanted his music from "The Capeman" to be bigger than it was. That's why he first released the songs with various stars singing them.

Elton John also did an all star album of AIDA with Janet Jackson (!) and the Spice Girls (!).

“Passion”s only real competition for the BM Tony was Beauty and the Beast.

“Passion” won because Broadway was still hostile towards upcoming the Disney invasion. “Lion King” would quickly change that.

[quote]In about 2005, there was a concert presentation with Donna Murphy, Marin Mazzie and Michael Cerveris taking over for Jere Shea. Maybe a benefit for the Actor's Fund? I don't recall. I found it to be altogether more effective than the original production.

Do you mean the production that aired on PBS's Live from Lincoln Center in the spring of 2005? That one starred Patti LuPone (Fosca), Michael Cerveris (Giorgio), and Audra McDonald (Clara).

[quote] Do you mean the production that aired on PBS's Live from Lincoln Center in the spring of 2005? That one starred Patti LuPone (Fosca), Michael Cerveris (Giorgio), and Audra McDonald (Clara).

No. I meant exactly what I wrote.

"PASSION contains some of the most gorgeous (and unappreciated) songwriting in Sondheim's career."

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

"it's not like RENT ushered in that many more new shows with a contemporary sound, either, which always surprised me."

They never do. Why? It's not theater music.

IMO, Sondheim is at his worst with the talk-singing in PASSION. I watched the DVD of the original production with a friend, and she was like "It's very sing-songy; they sound like they're making up the tune as they go along."

PASSION has some major problems inherent in the writing, especially the book, but I agree that the worst thing about the original production was the direction of Lapine, who is even more spectacularly untalented as a director than he is as a writer.

PASSION is the smelly turd in the Sondheim canon. Even ROAD SHOW is superior.

It’s also based on a total lie: when obsessed freaks throw themselves at you, most people run the other direction. It’s only Sondheim’s fantasy that if you’re obsessed with someone, that person will respond to your crazy ardor.

Lapine really is a terrible director. Ethan Mordden's Sondheim book blames Lapine for deliberately avoiding the striking theatricality of Hal Prince, as if theatricality were cheap or shallow. Lapine is not just a limited talent, but a self-limiting one. I'd say he directs musicals like a straight, but there have been good straight directors--Gower Champion, for instance, or Michael Kidd.

I wonder if Lar Lubovitch was instrumental in keeping the original Into the Woods lively. He was credited with "musical staging," but most of Into the Woods needs to be musically staged, because music runs through the piece almost non-stop.

[quote]Elton John also did an all star album of AIDA with Janet Jackson (!) and the Spice Girls (!).

Much like Motown did with "Pippin," which it co-produced. Michael Jackson, the Jackson Five, the post-Diana Supremes, all recorded songs from the show. And the OBC album was on the Motown label.

It's much to my chagrin that the only original production of Sondheim I got to see on Broadway was "Passion".

All I remember of it is enjoying the opening scene and the pretty score and really having to pee by the end of it.

There's always been a rumor that Passion had no intermission because everyone was afraid that most of the audience wouldn't come back. That same rumor circulated about Follies years earlier.

^ That may well be true about Passion. But Follies did play a few previews with an intermission and the creatives felt that despite the long sit, the show played better with one rising line of tension that exploded into Loveland. Today you are allowed to play the licensed version with an intermission after Who's That Woman or Too Many Mornings but no intermission is preferred. But I too heard the rumor back in the day that there was no intermission to prevent walkouts.

[quote]Broadway audiences are typically not very smart.

They are only smart when they like the shows you do, right?

[quote] Today you are allowed to play the licensed version with an intermission after Who's That Woman or Too Many Mornings but no intermission is preferred.

But if you are doing "Follies" today you would need an intermission as your average audience age would be about 80.

True, r187, my highly enlarged prostate requires frequent bathroom breaks.

Incidentally, EVITA is a cautionary tale of how a radical feminist can destroy an entire country. Argentina still hasn't recovered from that 70+ years later. And we want that for the US? Down with SJWs and all their bullshit!

In post-WWII, Argentina was on it sway to becoming a superpower... until the Peron's came to power. Go figure!

How come no one has mentioned the John Doyle PASSION revival with Judy Kuhn, Ryan Silverman, and Melissa Errico. It was quite good and better than the original, I thought.

The problem with Passion isn't just the book, it's the entire story.

It's hard to change the book when most of it is sung through with SS's lyrics.

I always said it was like if in FATAL ATTRACTION, Michael Douglas had said, "You killed the rabbits? I think I love you!"

[quote]The problem with Passion isn't just the book, it's the entire story.

The problem with "Passion" is his fans can't conceive he is just a man and not every word or note he writes is a masterpiece.

Interesting that people should contrast ROAD SHOW to PASSION.

I only really liked one song from ROAD SHOW, and it's not sung by one of the 2 brothers--it's the boyfriend.

[quote]until the Peron's came to power

The Peron's what, dear? Which Peron?

We've moved from debating FOLLIES to debating PASSION.

Progress, I suppose...

I saw "Passion" on Broadway with Jere Shea and Donna Murphy. I later saw the movie "Passione d'Amore" - what is central to the story is that Fosca is dying of tuberculosis and has lost everything. A schemer took her virginity and her inheritance with a false marriage and abandoned her. She knows she is dying. The 19th century epidemiology of tuberculosis was that it gave the sufferer a frenetic desire for pleasure and heightened sexual drive. That is what turns Fosca into the sexual aggressor with Giorgio. Also knowing she is dying, if she gains the love of a beautiful man then Fosca can die happy. The doctor tells Giorgio to basically give her a mercy fuck so she will let go. In the movie that is exactly what happens. Giorgio may gain some sympathy or compassion but it is not real love. It love vs. Thanatos but also a kind of twisted life force. Lapine and Sondheim both got it wrong. I remember the women in the row in front of me in the theater shaking their heads in disbelief and disgust at the action onstage.

As for Harper Pitt in "Angels in America" - Marcia Gay Harden's replacement was Cynthia Nixon. She was childlike and fragile and very touching. A lot of the replacement casting in the original Broadway George Wolfe production was excellent: Dan Futterman took over from Joe Mantello as Louis and was very boyish, cute and terrified. You understood why he dumped his boyfriend, wasn't as smarmy as Mantello and you also saw why Joe Pitt was attracted to him. Likewise, Jay Goede was a blond Arrow Collar model Adonis as Joe Pitt and you saw why both Harper and Louis couldn't get over him. I should also mention the Signature Theater production about a decade ago. That also had a brilliant replacement cast. Michael Urie as Prior Walter was only bettered by the original Stephen Spinella. Adam Driver took over from Zachary Quinto as Louis and had so much sex appeal and inner insecurity that it all made sense. Also, Keira Keeley took over as Harper Pitt from the less than great Zoe Kazan and she also was all raw nerves and vulnerability in the role. She was excellent. Jonathan Hadary was a blistering Roy Cohn - he did the Broadway national tour and replaced Frank Wood in the Signature production. Bill Heck was a perfect Joe Pitt. Wonderful cast.

Don't kid yourself, R197.

All roads lead to FOLLIES and GYPSY. Some of them are just more winding than others.

Passion can work on stage, but you wouldn’t know it from the OB production

Road Show/Bounce/Wise Guys had multiple tries and was a mess each time

He’s an old man. He had an incredible run. He can rest now.

I saw Passion in its original run.

I thought it was dull.

Just Sondheim trying to convince himself that the 20-somethings he lusted after really loved him back.

I have never seen a production of Passion where I did not have to, at some point, cover my mouth to hold back the laughter. I love it.

Secret Voices of Hollywood.

Stars In The House - Motherhood Aloud.

Passion, Passion, Passion! I long for the days when we used to discuss "Follies."

Allegiance.

Still dreaming of the NTLive of Present Laughter

Am swapping Allegiance out. Has the commentary track

What is Secret Voices of Hollywood about?

Ghost singers

I don't get Lapine. I think Into the Woods is great (yes, both acts) and I like at least the first act of Sunday, but everything else he's had a hand in has been a bit shitty.

I think Sondheim is only as good as the book and characters he has to work with. While Company and Follies aren't known for their brilliant plots, they do have a lot to say and most of the characters are pretty interesting. I think that helped him a lot.

Maybe what Sondheim really needs is another great collaborator.

Hugh Wheeler's books for A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC and especially SWEENEY TODD are both masterful. Really great music theatre writing.

People never give librettists enough credit.

I hate to bring it up, but when you see a production of Gypsy, you realize what a difference a great book can make for a musical. These days, people just throw a few lines in between songs and call it a book and, to me, this is what's really wrong with musicals these days.

From what I've read about Sondheim's process, he tends to collaborate with the book writers more than other composers and will sometimes take a monologue they've written and turn it into a song. He's good about finding the moments that sing in a script. If there are no moments that sing, there's not much he can do.

[quote] people just throw a few lines in between songs and call it a book

I think a lot of people who see theater (and some posters on this thread, who should know better) assume that's just what book writers do.

thank you r198 for reminding me about Dan Futterman. he was an excellent Louis. Sexy combo of hot and nerd and gave a really strong performance. My favorite of any Louis I've seen

R211, Sondheim is NINETY YEARS OLD. It ain’t happening, sweetie. His writing days and show creating days are behind him. He’s not Verdi.

I saw Passion early on in its Broadway run. It was fucking terrible. From top to bottom, sideways, and all directions. Completely misconceived, miscast, poorly written, badly acted, badly sung, and dull. I was shocked at how awful it was. Passion was the end of Sondheim creatively and you will never see a full original work from him again.

Judi and Ian.

I love this version.

One Judi’s most acclaimed roles and her favorite. I remember seeing it on tv back in 1991.

people on Broadwayworld are praising this version but I don't see it... there is nothing behind the song

One more for tonight. Excellent play. I saw it in London the same January evening she won Golden Globe in LA but there she was on stage in West End.

[quote] Maybe what Sondheim really needs is another great collaborator.

We’ll that and a high colonic once a week.

r223

hmm... Was/Is Sondheim a top or bottom?

PASSION is a quasi-opera and should have been sung through entirely with no spoken words. When anyone directs it, it is essential to maintain Fosca as a believable, ill woman - dying of TB - and not exaggerated with moles and witch-like ugliness and treated as a deranged stalker. We have to believe that Georgio could come to love and be haunted by Fosca or the piece does not work. It's not childrens theater.

That said, PASSION is my favorite work of Sondheim, precisely because I experienced it as an opera and not as a musical tragedy. The genre is different. "I Wish I Could Forget You" is an amazing aria. Musically and lyrically it's one of Sondheim's best:

...A love as pure as breath, as permanent as death.

Implacable as stone

A love that, like a knife, has cut into a life

I wanted left alone.

A love I may regret, but one I can't forget...

Don't want to start a flame war, but after reading some comments, I just wanted to share my humble opinion.

Dom Top. Not anal focused.

I own three different recordings of Passion and the OBC DVD, as well as a couple of audio bootlegs. I’ve also read and own a copy of the Tarchetti novel, and have seen ‘Passione d'Amore’ several times. I think I even have a copy of the published Passion script somewhere.

So, it goes without saying: I fucking love Passion, and am also of the opinion that it’s one of Sondheim’s best scores.

But when experienced live? I’ve never once sat through a performance that came close to being satisfactory, despite being well staged and/or expertly performed. It’s too short and the narrative is too compressed: in performance the whole thing feels wildly implausible to the point of ridiculousness.

Where and when did you see it in an operatic staging, R225? It sounds fascinating - and I can see how that approach might solve what I think is a pretty fundamental issue with the structure of the book.

insert -

I love her R228

this past week was the anniversary of The Fucking Visit. Anyone bust out their yellow shoes? Even dead, Fred Ebb put out a better show than Passion, Fun Home, etc.

R212 I think that “A Little Night Music” has possibly the strongest book of any musical.

[quote]I think that “A Little Night Music” has possibly the strongest book of any musical.

Yeah, well I sat thru that whole damn show and didn't see one fucking clown. I wanted my money back,

R230 I really enjoyed The Visit. I went in knowing nothing except it starred Chita, was by Kander & Ebb, and that Angela Landsbury had originally been the lead when I was a kid. That was enough info for me to buy a ticket.

I actually preferred The Visit at Signature in DC to the Broadway incarnation. It was messier and probably a little long, but it was much ballsier and more moving. George Hearn was fucking awesome, too. I forget who directed it, but John Doyle should never have been let near the show.

I agree with R156. The Passion score is strong as exemplified by the songs listed. It is a literally unbelievable story but that doesn't detract from the score. I always feel bad for Giorgio because he seems like a good guy who somehow completely loses his way...and his mind.

[quote]I really enjoyed The Visit. I went in knowing nothing except it starred Chita, was by Kander & Ebb, and that Angela Landsbury had originally been the lead when I was a kid.

What??? I think you got the story a little confused.....

[quote]I actually preferred The Visit at Signature in DC to the Broadway incarnation. It was messier and probably a little long, but it was much ballsier and more moving. George Hearn was fucking awesome, too. I forget who directed it, but John Doyle should never have been let near the show

Agreed, The Signature version was MUCH better, despite the flaws you noted. Frank Galati directed it, and Ann Reinking did the choreography.

Look, Sondheim gave us his entire 1957-1990 output. That's a better run than most people.

You see this with writers and directors all the time, too. It's almost like they've lost their drive or passion for their craft. Some still carry it into old age with them, but there's not usually as much hunger to tell a story.

Strangely, with actors, I think they only get better with age if they allow themselves to really age and gain wisdom along the way. It's a shame our society thinks most actors should be turned out to pasture after 50. There are lots of interesting stories to tell about people over 50.

R236 Not really??? When I was a kid, I remember reading about the Visit when it was being developed and Lansbury was still attached. The show fell off my radar after that.

[quote] Sondheim is NINETY YEARS OLD. It ain’t happening, sweetie. His writing days and show creating days are behind him. He’s not Verdi.

Oh, pish-posh! He's a mere youngster!

Verdi wrote "Falstaff" when he was 80.

Re a revival of Pacific Overtures. How would they cast it now? Part of what made it so powerful was that it was presented Kabuki style, but would current casting practices require that actors of color, women, and gender-fluid actors be cast?!? That would completely destroy the power of the play, not that something as ambitious as that will ever be produced.

>> >>I really enjoyed The Visit. I went in knowing nothing except it starred Chita, was by Kander & Ebb, and that Angela Landsbury had originally been the lead when I was a kid.

>>What??? I think you got the story a little confused.....

You're the one who's confused. That's exactly what happened. Angela had signed on and was very involved not only creating her part but with the overall creation of the show. But during rehearsals for the Chicago preview run her husband became deathly ill and it was doubtful he would survive. Angela wrote a heartbreaking letter to the creatives and her fellow cast members that she apologized profusely but that her husband had to be her first priority and she was dropping out to help care for him. Everyone was devastated, both because of their love for Angela but also because her involvement had been crucial to raising the financing for the show. The financing nearly dissolved....

^ The financing did dissolve. That's why it took so very long for the show to reach Broadway after the Chicago preview run. It was originally intended for the show to move to New York after Chicago. New financing had to be raised and it took a very long time, during which the Signature production occurred.

After Angie, did they approach Liza?

Checking in with DL fave Max von Essen:

What's to check? Still a bottom. Still underhung.

Still adorable and talented.

Did he audition for "Amy" in the Lenk COMPANY?

Face Masks and Fewer Seats -- One Theater Tries Saving Summer:

Angie never made it as far as rehearsals for the Chicago. She did the development, but was out by the time they went into production.

Also, it wasn't just her withdrawal that slowed up the show's journey to Broadway: 9/11 happened. Freddie Ebb died. The lead producer died. The 2009 recession happened. Roger Rees got the cancer diagnosis that would eventually pull him from the show and kill him. All that on top of being a dark show instead of a candy colored xerox of a movie? Not a chance. It's a shame because the show itself is beautiful.

Doyle's Broadway production of The Visit was a highly abridged version of the original. Is any of the material he cut available for a licensed production?

Broadway's Adrienne Warren talks about performing from her bathtub:

Between The Visit's Chicago run and its years later opening on Broadway there were a handful of other productions other than the Signature, including a short run in Australia, a Williamstown production, and a one night Broadway concert version with Chita and John Collum.

[quote] But during rehearsals for the Chicago preview run her husband became deathly ill and it was doubtful he would survive. Angela wrote a heartbreaking letter to the creatives and her fellow cast members that she apologized profusely but that her husband had to be her first priority and she was dropping out to help care for him

This isn’t true. At the time Lansbury withdrew, in summer 2000, there was no Chicago production planned. The show was going to play a tryout in Boston starting in December before moving directly to NY. Lansbury quit a couple of months before rehearsals were to start. The negotiations with the Goodman didn’t start till Chita was signed.

It was 9/11 that got in the way of a move from Chicago. No one was flying after 9/11, and there was no way to get anyone out from NY or anywhere else to see the show, in spite of decent reviews and word of mouth.

I wonder why John Doyle replaced Galati and Reinking?

Why on earth would Pacific Overtures be cast with anyone but Asians? It's a show ABOUT Japan.

Being "woke" isn't about replacing one set of minority actors with a DIFFERENT set of minority actors. It's about casting actors of color in roles traditionally cast with white actors.

Thanks for the corrections about The Visit, r250 and r254. What a convoluted production history.

I first posted in response to the poster who said that an earlier poster was confused who posted that Angela was originally involved. Everything I said were things I read or heard over the years but we all know that everything you read and hear are not necessarily true especially when only the partially informed, PR firms and trolls have their stories to spin.

At any rate I gave both of you W&Ws for your corrections. Thanks.

One of the things I detested about Pacific Overtures, despite its gorgeous set and costume design and Tunick's gorgeous orchestrations, was its historical dishonesty. I sat there wondering how the show would deal with Pearl Harbor and WWII and the Japanese treatment of American POWs (vivisection, anyone?) but they did it very simply: they totally ignored it.

The score is a mixed bag. I have grown to love several of the songs (Bowler Hat, Chrysantheum Tea, Pretty Lady, among several others, but still hate Someone in a Tree. A six minute vamp that doesn't progress either lyrically or melodically. The singer spends nearly 6 minutes repeating he can't see or hear anything. Terrific idea for a song -- not. And the Gilbert and Sullivan pastiche was weak, weak, weak.

I have many of the same problems with Assassins. Some good tunes but a weak and intellectually dishonest book. Early 1990s political correctness.

I saw both the original production as well as the video made of that production for Japanese TV that was on youtube for a long time.

I was there you know.

^ I only went back for the second act after some debate with myself to see the wonderful contributions of Boris Aronson, Florence Klotz, Tharon Musser and Jonathan Tunick. And Patricia Birch. At least that gave me the chance to see the Gilbert & Sullivan satire (I'm a great G&S aficionado; the pastiche was OK but second rate) and satisfy my curiosity about how they would treat WWII. Surprise! They just omitted it.

I was there you know.

R258 What the fuck does WWII have to do with the story they were telling in that show?

If you want a historical miniseries musical about 180 years of Japanese/US history then go write that (boring) musical.

I will agree with you that Assassins has a terrible book; brilliant songs and individual scenes are great fun but it adds up to a big incoherent mess.

Not sure what you mean by "politically correct". Sondheim and Weidman make it pretty clear that the assassins are all nutjobs seeking glory for themselves...the only one they might have been a bit sympathetic to was Czołgosz who wasn't crazy or looking for personal glory; he just hated the capitalistic system. Doesn't mean he was right (he wasn't) but he wasn't a vainglorious fool like Booth or fucking nutty Guiteau.

[quote] If you want a historical miniseries musical about 180 years of Japanese/US history then go write that (boring) musical.

I don't need to. Sondheim and his collaborators have already done that. PO opens with the arrival of US traders and military and ends with Next, set in the then contemporary present. They dealt with by far the most troubling issue by just ignoring and deleting it. Next doesn't have to be there. They could have just ended the show in 1938. Allowing Next to extend the the time frame to the 1980s without addressing WWII is misleading and dishonest.

Yes, and a rousing 5 minute number including Pearl Harbor/the Rape of Nanking/the Bataan Death March/Hiroshima would have been a riveting way to end the evening's entertainment!!!

I think the late Jerry Herman would have done a much better job with that than Sondheim.

[quote]Sondheim and Weidman make it pretty clear that the assassins are all nutjobs seeking glory for themselves..

That's the problem. It's not true, just the simplified versions repeated over and over in the popular press until it's accepted. Read some actual history.

Things are seldom what they seem. Skim milk masquerades as cream.

R264 They are musical entertainments.

If you want factual history lessons, go read a book.

[quote][R264] They are musical entertainments. If you want factual history lessons, go read a book.

That's the problem, r265. If Jerry Herman or Irving Berlin or Cole Porter had written musicals based on historical incidents both I and everyone would have accepted them as highly fictionalized light entertainments. Rodgers' and Hart's Dearest Enemy, inspired by an actual incident during the Revolutionary War, and Irving Berlin's Annie Get Your Gun, a highly fictionalized account of the romance between Frank Butler and Annie Oakley, are excellent examples.

But this wasn't that. Both PO and Assassins were presented not as light entertainments but as serious re-examinations of history. This was PRINCE. This was SONDHEiM. This was HISTORY. This was a re-examination of TRUTH. At least that was the PR. Don't tell me I'm wrong, I was there.

And it was mostly PR for "serious" musicals that had as little to do with historical accuracy as Dearest Enemy or AGYG.

r

[quote]Re a revival of Pacific Overtures. How would they cast it now? Part of what made it so powerful was that it was presented Kabuki style, but would current casting practices require that actors of color, women, and gender-fluid actors be cast?!? That would completely destroy the power of the play, not that something as ambitious as that will ever be produced.

Awww Sweetie you can rest your weary head peacefully at night, for there will never be a revival of "Pacific Overtures".

R266 " serious re-examinations of history"

Stephen Sondheim would laugh in your face if you said that to him about either one of those shows.

It's a BROADWAY MUSICAL, dear....if you walked into the Winter Garden thinking you were going to see a realistic musical drama about the history of Japan, then you were the one not paying attention...Pacific Overtures is about the initial contact between Japan and the US as seen through the eyes of the Japanese. It was never intended to be a documentary about the entire history of Japanese/US relations.

Again...go write that show if you're so obsessed with "accurate" historical theater. Though those are usually called "historical pageants" and they're dreary affairs staged in summer for the benefit of bored tourists with community theater amateur casts.

Have at it!

The events listed in “Next” are trivial (by design). There is nothing else mentioned in that song on the level of Pearl Harbor. It’s all about Japan’s economic growth and it’s consequences; exports and opening beaches.

There’s no reason Pearl Harbor should be mentioned. It’s not relevant.

R241, part of what made the original (and most if not all subsequent productions) of Pacific Overtures so powerful was that the entire cast were people of color.

Why would you object to that?

People of color is a euphemism for "black." Where have you been?

The Japanese production that played DC and New York in the early 2000s included a nuclear blast during Next. Lights flashed very brightly, and everyone was on the floor. They got up, the music started again and they finished the song with even more ferocity and tenacity. That production, mostly in Japanese, was breathtaking.

[quote] That's the problem. It's not true, just the simplified versions repeated over and over in the popular press until it's accepted. Read some actual history.

[quote] They are musical entertainments.

r264 and r265 you're leaving out the fact that artists are supposed to have a point of view and put forth an original take on events. Art doesn't have to be factual or complete, and conversely its 'excuse' for not being accurate isn't that it's only 'entertainment.' It's art: by definition someone's angle (impression, if you will) on things. Van Gogh isn't accurate...and also isn't mere entertainment.

"I sat there wondering how the show would deal with Pearl Harbor and WWII and the Japanese treatment of American POWs (vivisection, anyone?) but they did it very simply: they totally ignored it."

Of course they ignored it. It was irrelevant to the story they were telling. You want to see it handled honestly? Write your own.

The Pacific Overtures revival would be set in an insane asylum in 1960s Baltimore. The cast would be all black men playing their own instruments. They'd perform the show wearing pearly white buck teeth and they'd all mockingly pull their eyelids into slits the entire show whenever they're not playing their instruments. There'd be no set except for a long wooden bench and one filthy commode. Occasionally someone has a mental breakdown and they're beaten by white orderlies. But other than that the book and music would remain the same.

Damn these bigots are batshit crazy

That someone would leap on "Pacific Overtures" to make anti black (and other minorities) comments... the lack of self awareness...

To Restart After Lockdown, Theaters Need to Think Small:

A new gimmick for "Hamilton" -- have its roles played by puppets, but by POC -- puppets of color, to replace its original gimmick.

I fucking hated every aspect of the original Way production of "Passion". James Lapine is a terrible director without an ounce of ingenuity in him. Now, the West End production, with Michael Ball and Maria Friedman was a revelation. Everything about it was inspired. And I'm sure Lapine must have hated it, but it was a totally different show than the dreck that played on Broadway.

It's a shame that John Guare was able to make a huge profit off Six Degrees of Separation, while David Hampton, the actual guy that inspired the story, got no compensation.

[quote] It's a shame that John Guare was able to make a huge profit off Six Degrees of Separation, while David Hampton, the actual guy that inspired the story, got no compensation.

No it isn't. The guy was a criminal.

[quote] No it isn't. The guy was a criminal.

So was John Guare for stealing someone else's story.

I think SIX DEGREES is one of Guare's better plays, and enjoyed the original production.

But there's an undeniable "ick" factor to a wealthy, successful white playwright explaining race, class, and privilege to the audience by means of a real-life story to which Guare can make no claim. David Hampton sued Guare over the play unsuccessfully and died of AIDS in 2003.

Yes, Hampton was a life-long con man, but his grim death in particular puts Guare and the play in a very unflattering light. I think this was one of the reasons why the revival failed. It's no longer just a charming evening with daffy people on the UES.

[quote] So was John Guare for stealing someone else's story.

Yeah, that's not how that works. But you knew that. Thanks for playing.

What a load of horseshit, R284. Go clack your claws on Twitter with the rest of your SJW brethren.

Anyone who write SJW is a Trump boring piece of shit.

BLOCKED

BYEEEEE CUNT

So mature.

SIX DEGREES is also another entry in "when straight writers (or at least, straight-identified writers) tell LGBT stories."

There's a lot of specifically gay male content in there. You know, for a straight guy.

Corona shutdown check-in with Laura B:

Sondheim stole the Assassins idea from another writer, but they had to credit the original guy with the idea.

No, he stole the title. Lord knows why that guy gets a credit for that.

Producers of the TV series SMASH (Spielberg et al.) had to purchase the rights to Garson Kanin's novel SMASH...

Even though he'd been dead for 13 years and his novel had nothing whatsoever to do with the story on TV.

PS: Kanin got a regular credit in the TV series as well.

A piece in the Guardian on playwrights reliving their biggest flops gives an insight from Alan Ayckbourn into Andrew Lloyd Webber's view on the importance of lyrics:

[quote]Tim (Rice) had cold feet and Andrew said I could be the lyricist – “piece of cake”. I remember thinking Hammerstein and Gershwin would be turning in their graves.

Exactly, r260. Why anyone would "sit there wondering how the show would deal with Pearl Harbor and WWII and the Japanese treatment of American POWs" has to be a bit loony. That was never what the show was going to be about. The pre-opening press was quite clear about this.

Tim Rice IS Oscar Hammerstein compared to Lloyd Webber's other lyricists.

Even though Garson Kanin's novel Smash has no chaaracters in common with the TV show and the plot is different, it is a backstage account of the creation of a musical. NBC wanted to use the title, though, so they licensed the rights to the book before the show even went into production to prevent any possible future litigation.

R291, The "other guy" is Charlie Gilbert, who has taught at UArts in Philadelphia for many years. The idea wasn't stolen, Gilbert wrote to Sondheim about collaborating on the original idea for the show with a version he wrote in 1979, and Sondheim wrote back that he would rather write the piece himself based on the idea, which he liked. Nothing was stolen, Gilbert is credited and paid for his contribution.

How does it work with titles? Surely, if it's a big franchise like Star Wars, I'm sure it's been copywritten, but I've seen many films, plays, and books with the exact same title. Do they have to pay someone to use the title again?

[quote] Anyone who write SJW is a Trump boring piece of shit. BLOCKED BYEEEEE CUNT

NOOOOO! Not that! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!! How on earth will I ever go on?

I've been involved in a few productions of Assassins and, while it has a beautiful score, the book is a total mess. The people who get the most to do are Squeaky and Sarah Jane Moore. People seem to leave the theatre thinking and talking about them the most. It's a pretty breezy show, though. Really flies by. I wish they'd expand upon a few things a bit more, though.

Titles and other common short phrases, like your name, can't be copyrighted. They can be trademarked, however, if they a part of a series like a film franchise.

NBC licensed Kanin's novel because the subject matter of the book was so close to (even though not the same as) their upcoming series. They might have won an infringement suit but litigation is always expensive and risky. I'm sure their accountants and attorneys thought in the long run it be cheaper to just license the material and be done with it.

Did Smash have to pay for the use of Marilyn Monroe's image/life story or is that in public domain?

[quote]Now, the West End production, with Michael Ball and Maria Friedman was a revelation. Everything about it was inspired. And I'm sure Lapine must have hated it, but it was a totally different show than the dreck that played on Broadway.

It still had the same boring score.

Laura Benanti gives whole new dimensions to word "narcissist". It's why no agents can stand her for very long.

"Anyone who write SJW is a Trump boring piece of shit. BLOCKED BYEEEEE CUNT"

Anyone who " writes, " not " write," you fucking illiterate.

Girls! You are both fat whores!

Afraid to use " you're"? Afraid you'll write "your"?

Miss a day and you're 300 posts behind...

Passion: I saw the original, and the London production with Maria Friedman and Michael Ball. I actually saw that one five nights in a row. It was far more effective than the original due to the direction. The original build to the song "Loving You" as an emotional climx, while London was directed to build to the later "I Wish I Could Forget You" which was breathtakingly beautiful. The scene into the song was done so perfectly -lighting, direction, everything -that I burst into tears every time. And then came that song!

Pacific Overtures: I was too young to see the original, but I have a first-rate copy of the production (filmed for Japanese television). There are many copies of the video out and about, and on YouTube, but most have faded color and muffled sound. It is without doubt my favorite Sondheim show. It's not at all hard to cast here in California. East West Players did it brilliantly, and in a small space. The Broadway revival didn't work because they added women to the show and severely reduced the brilliant orchestrations which were integral to the score. I am firmly on the side of those who said, "If you want a better history lesson, write your own musical." It's not a show about WWII. You're confusing it with Allegiance.

Sunday in the Park: I saw the original on Broadway -My first show in New York. I've seen almost every major revival that's been done. It is a work of art. Some performers have sung it better, but that happens with every show.

It's all-too-common for people to dismiss a Sondheim show that they didn't like as having a bad book, a bad second act, lacking in heart, being cold...None of that is true, of course. The material is first-rate, and the execution varies from production to production. I find Sunday, Passion, and Pacific Overtures to be highly emotional and riveting theatre. Hello Dolly and The Music Man make me want to slit my wrists. Both of the latter shows are proven hits that have stood the test of time with audiences. I can respect the talents and craftsmanship involved, but they leave me totally cold. And it's the same with Sondheim -Some will love him and others will be reaching for a coat and gloves. And that's okay. Not every song by Sondheim is brilliant (I loathe "Silly People") but I think his body of work has more passion, insight into the human condition, and joy of language than any other.

Was it this thread about Katherine Hepburn and Sondheim being townhouse neighbors? Sally Struthers talks about it starting at 15:29

R309 Conjunctions are used by the poor. Bwahahahha.

Sea Wall with Andrew Scott.

Alan Cumming - Legal Immigrant.

I am still trying to figure out how a con-man's "grim death in particular puts Guare and the play in a very unflattering light."

Hampton died of AIDS. His death had nothing to do with Guare's play. Hampton was never interviewed by Guare. Guare did not use any actual biographical details of Hampton's life. Guare never claimed to represent Hampton on stage.

He wrote a play based on an anecdote. While the Son of Sam laws would not have applied, the spirit is applicable. Should a criminal reap financial rewards from his crime? Of course not. Paying Hampton to use his fraud scheme as the premise of the play is outrageous.

"Conjunctions are used by the poor. Bwahahahha."

Do you mean contractions? Bwahahaha.

R315 Oh fuck, what a fail. My only excuse is I have food poisoning, and my head is a whirl.

Hamlet - David Tennant.

[quote]Guare did not use any actual biographical details of Hampton's life.

Hampton claimed to be Sidney Poiter's son. Hampton was gay. Hampton was caught in bed with another man by one of the wealthy people he fleeced. Guare didn't even both to change those facts. All were stolen directly from Hampton's life.

Hamlet - Rory Kinnear.

Hamlet - David Tennant.

[quote]Hampton claimed to be Sidney Poiter's son. Hampton was gay. Hampton was caught in bed with another man by one of the wealthy people he fleeced. Guare didn't even both to change those facts. All were stolen directly from Hampton's life.

Coincidence?

Workin' girls...

Has anyone here ever seen a production of Harold Rome's musical version of Gone With the Wind? It received sit down productions in LA, Tokyo, London and Dallas but never raised the money to move to Broadway. There were revisions between these productions but the ahow didn't change in any huge way. The London production was recorded and is still available if you're willing to pay the cost for an out of print disc.

I've gathered from what I've read that it was an overall intelligent take on the material and the score was appealing but not outstanding.

But going back to my original question, has anyone here actually seen it? What was it like?

I haven’t seen it, but I just bought the CD, which was reissued by a much maligned guy who does that kind of thing. It wasn’t that expensive or that good. In fact, you can buy it right now for under 20 bucks, The 1972 traditional musical theater vibe (think Lawrence Welk) is amusing.

The story of Gone With The Wind is long. What did the musical cut out?

The war, Rose!

It IS a tragedy that a conman got ripped off.

I also cry for the 500 real life people whose tragedies were ripped off by Dick Wolf for the various Law & Order franchises.

Also: all the merry murderesses in Chicago.

And, the assassins in Assassins.

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF SQUEAKY FROMME?!?!?!?

I had GWTW on vinyl. I remember June Ritchie's "As God as my witness..." being unintentionally funny. Would loved to have seen Lesley Ann's take.

[quote]You're the one who's confused. That's exactly what happened. Angela had signed on and was very involved not only creating her part but with the overall creation of the show. But during rehearsals for the Chicago preview run her husband became deathly ill and it was doubtful he would survive. Angela wrote a heartbreaking letter to the creatives and her fellow cast members that she apologized profusely but that her husband had to be her first priority and she was dropping out to help care for him. Everyone was devastated, both because of their love for Angela but also because her involvement had been crucial to raising the financing for the show. The financing nearly dissolved....

Sorry, but the way the post I was responding to was written, I thought that poster meant Lansbury had actually played the role: "I really enjoyed The Visit. I went in knowing nothing except it starred Chita, was by Kander & Ebb, and that Angela Landsbury [sic] had originally been the lead when I was a kid." The story you tell is basically what I remember having happened, but as others have noted, Lansbury did not get as far as starting rehearsals for the Chicago production. If you're going to correct someone else, you should try to get all of your facts straight.

[quote]I wonder why John Doyle replaced Galati and Reinking?

Honestly, I think one big reason is that his minimalist productions are far less expensive than regular shows. Certainly, if the production of THE VISIT that I saw at Signature had come to Broadway -- which it should have -- it would have cost considerably more than Doyle's.

[quote]I will agree with you that Assassins has a terrible book; brilliant songs and individual scenes are great fun but it adds up to a big incoherent mess.

I'm surprised you think of it as an "incoherent mess," when the various segments of the show are pretty much presented as vignettes tied to an overall theme. I think the whole thing is quite nicely pulled together at the end of the show.

[quote] Hampton died of AIDS. His death had nothing to do with Guare's play.....While the Son of Sam laws would not have applied, the spirit is applicable. Should a criminal reap financial rewards from his crime? Of course not. Paying Hampton to use his fraud scheme as the premise of the play is outrageous.

Thank you. I'm not fan of Guare's, but I can't believe anyone is expressing sympathy for that con man Hampton, who by the way continued grifting -- or, at least, trying to -- many years after SIX DEGREES. What world!

R317, all Guare took is that this man pretended to be Sidney Poitier's son and was found sleeping with another man.

That is not exactly a biography.

Reading a Times article just now, I learned that Hampton was actually convicted of fraud. So under the law at that time, Guare could not have compensated Hampton for use of the details of his crime. And other than the details of the crime, Guare used nothing.

Guare seems not to have been able to draw in any significant way on Hampton's life because he never met Hampton. The only information he could draw on was the fraud itself, since Hampton for obviously did not share personal information.

Should Equus have paid the real kid who blinded those horses?

Did the two guys in M Butterfly get paid?

did the Perons get royalties?

What about the few Titanic survivors who were still alive in 1997?

Did the real Sandy the mutt, who it was based on, get royalties from "Annie"?

By the way....the lyrics to “Next” in Pacific Overtures make an oblique, passing reference to Hiroshima:

NEVER MIND THE SMALL DISASTER

[quote] NEVER MIND THE SMALL DISASTER

They had it coming, they had it coming,

They only had themselves to blame.

If you had been there, if you had seen it,

I'm sure that you would have done the same!

Where's your Messiah, NOW, John Guare hater?

Noel Coward saw the GWTW musical in London. He thought it was all right, but the opening night was marred by a terrible performance by Bonnie Blue, and the horse in the Atlanta fire sequence literally losing its shit onstage. "The piece could have been considerably improved," he opined, "If they had shoved the child up the horse's arse."

A musical stage adaptation at Drury Lane in 1972, featuring a young Bonnie Langford and a horse that defecated on stage during press night, prompted Noël Coward to opine: "They should cut the second act - and the child's throat."

Wasn't Noel Coward a child actor?

Yes, for his entire life.

Thanks, r310. Totally agree about Sondheim. But sorry you are immune to the joys of well-crafted fluff like MM and Dolly. Those take a special kind of genius to create. But to each his own; I could list at least a dozen successful shows that people adore that would push me to hara kiri if I had to sit through them again. Don't know what SS feels about MM and Dolly, but I do know he loved THE WIZ, saying he wishes he could create the pure joy that that show exuded.

It's sweet that someone here believes John Guare is straight.

Does Margaret Thatcher's estate get a cut of Billy Elliot?

Did anyone here see the Trevor Nunn adaptation of GWTW from maybe ten years ago? I think it played the New London. Trevor Nunn could stretch out Little Miss Muffet to four hours plus. I shudder to think how endless his GWTW was.

I like John Guare.

Speaking of House of Blue Leaves, did anyone see that revival a few years back with Ben Stiller, Edie Falco and Jennifer Jason Leigh? How was it?

^^ I saw it. If you enjoy seeing a production of "The House of Blue Leaves" that kills almost all of the laughs, then it was the sort of production you would have enjoyed.

[quote]It's all-too-common for people to dismiss a Sondheim show that they didn't like as having a bad book, a bad second act, lacking in heart, being cold...None of that is true, of course.

It's all-too-common for people to hail a Sondheim show that they liked as having a brilliant book, a great second act, having heart, being warm...None of that is true, of course.

Sorry, you lost me with seeing "Passion" five nights in a row.

What about the L.A. production with Kate Burton and Jane Kaczmarek?

^^^Sorry, wrong thread. DL screwing up again.

Which one played Fosca?

I'd be curious to see Kate & Jane in Blue Leaves BITD.

Kate was Bananas and Jane was Bunny...

R347 judge for yourself

Gypsy - Bette.

Phedre - Helen Mirren.

Paul Williams - Still Alive.

[quote] This was HISTORY. This was a re-examination of TRUTH. At least that was the PR. Don't tell me I'm wrong, I was there.

Yeah, well I was there, too. You’re wrong, especially in the case of Pacific Overtures.

[quote] I was there.

In the treaty house?

R360 It's possible.

Average age of a DLer is death.

You got the line wrong. It’s “somewhere between forty and ... death.”

The laugh comes from the brilliant comic actress to whom the line has been delivered & who has pinpoint comic timing.

When do we talk about Patti taking it from behind and hollering like a stuck pig in Hollywood on Netflix? At least she’s fully dressed.

You're never fully dressed without being fucked on a staircase

You want to know about Patti? Get Kevin Anderson to talk...

[quote] You're never fully dressed without being fucked on a staircase

Or blown behind one.

Anderson doesn’t seem to have anything bad to say about her, r365

“ I thought she had really been abused and that what happened to her was totally wrong. She was great in the part and sang it in the original key, which was way more exciting. The things that were being said about her were so not true, so that bothered me.”

Who was Patti's standby when she walked out of the show for those three days?

R368 Her original standby Carol Duffy was on vacation and the role went to Alicia Endsley who was alternative to Elaine during her run and performed Thu eves. Andrew came to stage with flowers and gave them to Alicia after her first perf. Alicia then thanked Patti for her involvement in the production. Oh the drama!

^^ Sorry, that was before. Patti found out they were using her recordings without permission and contract and walked out.

Dame Vera...

Dame Vera - 1943

R369, it's Alisa Endsley

R737 Of course. Thanks. Her live version

Alisa’s version of Finale

Her Surrender...

Well that was disappointing, r367. R365 set us up to expect a war of the words, and now or dreams come crashing down.

Anyone else watch the National Theatre Live's "Frankenstein"? I covet that vast, rippling array of lights. I enjoyed the production and performances on the whole, but it really takes off when it's just the Doctor and the Creature alone onstage.

R339, Coward wasn’t referring to Bonnie Langford he was referring to the alternate Bonnie Blue Butler who was played by Celina Frediani. She played the role on the opening night performance Coward attended and she’s also the one on the original cast album.

Lucille Lortel Awards starting at 7 p.m. EST:

R379, Coward attended on the second night.

Vera Lynn today still sounds better than LucyMame.

The Midnight Gang.

Twelfth Night The Ryland/Globe production.

Twelfth Night - Act Two.

Aida - The farewell to Leontyne Price.

DLers, what are your favorite theaters for out of town tryouts or national tours?

r386 Reminds me of one of Sondheim's crazier lyrics:

I'll get Leontyne Price to sing her

Medley from "Meistersinger"

R381, you don’t need to lie just because you were wrong in a previous post. It’s OK.

The Lucille Lortel Awards were online tonight. Mario Cantone hosted and was funny, as always. The In Memoriam is suitably lengthy but left out DL icon Catherine Burns. Maybe the husband wouldn’t release a photo.

Broadway and the West End are screwed, according to Cameron Mackintosh. Neither will reopen until 2021.

From r391's article:

[quote]Julian Bird, chief executive of Solt and UK Theatre, encouraged theatregoers to consider donations in order to help the sector, and added the decision would have a “severe impact” on the 290,000 individuals working in the industry.

Of all the cheek, asking people who are unemployed themselves to make donations.

And probably not then, R391. Theaters aren’t reopening until there is a vaccine and that’s years and years away.

Well then, all chorus boys to Onlyfans,

Broadway Bares postponed to next year:

Rosalind Elias has died at age 90.

Rosalind's Heidi...

Cameron McIntosh just took a shit all over Broadway and The West End in his BBC interview. He'll have to walk that back. Broadway and The West End want to partially reopen in the Fall.

I really can't imagine not going to the theatre for years.

Moulin Rouge CANNOT be the last show I ever saw.

Broadway actors dig deep to weather storm during coronavirus shutdown:

The problem, R398, is that he may not be alone in those projections:

We'd like to thank you...

Going on R399 saying Moulin Rouge was the last show s/he saw before the pandemic, what was everyone else's? Mine was "Toni Stone" at ACT in San Francisco the night before the shelter-in-place order came down.

My last show before the shut-down was a preview of "Company." There were a lot of bright spots in that production. Katrina Lenk wasn't one of them.

West Side Story on March 11. Matinee. The woman next to me offered me Neosporin to rub on my nostrils. Said she heard it fought the virus. She may have been right.

I saw Harry Potter in SF last

“The Inheritance.” I had tickets to eleven other shows starting March 15th.

I had tickets to see 4 shows in March, April & May: Caroline or Change, Flying Over Sunset, Assassins, and American Buffalo

Mine was the revival of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" with Laurie Metcalf. The last Saturday matinee before everything was shut down that week. And just before everything closed, I got a news bulletin on my phone that an usher at the show had tested positive for the virus, which gave me pause.

R408, I also had tickets for "Caroline, or Change" as well as that "Hot Wings" play at the Signature. Got refunds for both.

I personally hate Cameron Macintosh, but what did he say that was wrong. All of the points about social distancing and the time it takes to put a show back together seem like logic.

It's not just about the audiences. How are actors going to be expected to do a performance eight times a week? It's quite obvious that most shows cannot be staged with the actors standing six feet apart.

If the producers and the theater owners and all the unions get real, they could easily cut their costs that would allow shows to re-open in the theatre with fewer social distanced audience members. Sir Cameron is playing an insidious long game thinking his competitors can't afford to hang on that long, so there will be fewer shows, and his tourist perennials will do better. Never forget: "Follow The Money."

I sense many one woman or one man shows on the horizon R412

[quote]I personally hate Cameron Macintosh

You in the habit of hating strangers?

R413, it's not all that easy for unions to cut costs.

R415, I've worked with him, though not on a show biz level.

Didn't tip well,huh?

I predict that the fear will die down and everyone will realize this is no worse than the flu. Nobody social distanced during flu season and there's no cure for that. People went about their business, some caught flu and lived, some caught flu and died.

R417, actually he stiffed me and I had to sue to get payment.

[quote]I predict that the fear will die down and everyone will realize this is no worse than the flu. Nobody social distanced during flu season and there's no cure for that. People went about their business, some caught flu and lived, some caught flu and died.

Of course we have flu shots and treatments if you did catch it, that we don't have for this virus. Bet you can't wait until Trump has his Amerikkka Rallys again.

[quote]Of course we have flu shots and treatments if you did catch it, that we don't have for this virus.

First of all, flu shots are only guesses. Scientists guess which strain of flu will be the worst and create the shot based on that. Getting a flu shot is no guarantee that you won't get it.

Second, we have thousands of cases of people who were in the hospital, took medicine and got over it. Some of that may need refining, but we're not talking about a disease with a death sentence for people who have strong immune systems. Stop acting like it's 1980 and we're trying to fight AIDS.

Last show I saw was a community theater production of "Guys and Dolls" on 3/1.

R421, so it is okay that this is a death sentence for people without strong immune systems?

No one is claiming that this is killing the young and healthy in huge numbers. But we value the lives of the old and those in poor health.

The difference between COVID-19 and the yearly flu have been stated many times, but you pretend not to know because it makes your feel good about yourself.

But as a reminder, we recently lost Jun Maeda to the disease.

Here is a list of other theater and culture worker whom we have already lost.

Thank you, R384 for the Globe Twelfth Night! I could watch Mark Rylance play Olivia all day.

"I predict that the fear will die down and everyone will realize this is no worse than the flu"

Which, of course, is errant nonsense.

Do we have a similar list of actors, writers, designers, and musicians each year who die of flu?

R421? Where is last year's list of flu victims?

Golda's Balcony.

Travelling Light - Act One.

Travelling Light - Act Two.

Into The Woods - Regent Park production.

R396 Besides Elias' illustrious opera career, it was Kathleen Battle's treatment of her that finally got Battle axed from the Met by Joseph Volpe, then the general manager. Volpe and Elias had been long-time friends, and when Battle went on a nasty tirade directed at Elias during a rehearsal of "Daughter of the Regiment" during a rehearsal, that was the straw that broke the camel's back, and to her headline-making firing from the Met (and pretty much the end of her opera, but not concert, career).

It's not bad enough that theater can be expensive, now it could be like a rollercoaster? You must be THIS healthy (and possibly THIS young) to attend?

R424. Rylance is playing ME? Why, I'll sue!!!!

I started to watch that, r430, but I just couldn't go with the concept.

That’s too bad. It has a nice pay off.

Promise?

R435 Believe me, it took awhile. And the witch, Baker and prince's were weak ideas. But there is a joy and undeniable theatricality that mostly won me over.

I'll try and come back to it. I just was taken aback by some of the costuming choices.

R438 Sure. The Princes' dressed as Russell Brand has aged poorly. The childhnarrator grew on me.

Wow, if anything was ever a shoo-in for OnlyFans, it was Broadway Bares.

"It's not bad enough that theater can be expensive, now it could be like a rollercoaster? You must be THIS healthy (and possibly THIS young) to attend?"

If enforced, it would be a perversion of everything the theater represents. How about first eliminating the slobs who come to the theater dressed in wife beaters, cargo shorts and crocs, and slurp from their sippy cups loudly to the disgust of everyone around them? They are more virulent than any disease. Lock them out!

It is odd that there doesn't even seem to be a discussion amongst producers about trialling new ways of making money, like online streaming, etc. Though I imagine the theatre owners would work hard to shut that down fast.

A look back...

Broadway is not reopening in the fall R398.

I believe the legitimate theater will be open by the Fall.

Yes, Arlene, and you'll be bringing in Once More With Feeling, I assume.

The last show I saw before Broadway shut down was GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY. I don't like having that as the last theatrical taste in my mouth. Shortly before that, I saw WEST SIDE STORY. My theater companion and I both hated it, and he later said with a large dose of very black humor that the closing of that production (at least for a while) was one of the few bright spots of the pandemic.

[quote]Besides Elias' illustrious opera career, it was Kathleen Battle's treatment of her that finally got Battle axed from the Met by Joseph Volpe, then the general manager. Volpe and Elias had been long-time friends, and when Battle went on a nasty tirade directed at Elias during a rehearsal of "Daughter of the Regiment" during a rehearsal, that was the straw that broke the camel's back, and to her headline-making firing from the Met (and pretty much the end of her opera, but not concert, career).

Thanks, R431, I don't believe I had read about that specific incident. I've always admired Volpe for giving Battle the axe. Hey, look what I did there, battle-axe.

I just felt like listening to Bubbles...

Actually Battle axe was in the original posting, but I've heard her described as a skirmish as well. Plus a whole lot more.

I don't care how crazy or how big a bitch Kathleen Battle was; she had a glorious voice and was an attractive, thin, singer in a world of unattractive cows.

R450 you’re scum

There were rumors she was being miked at the Met too -- certainly Jimmy Levine used to keep the orchestra playing way down in volume when she sang. It was a beautiful voice, but a tiny one. There's a video of her walking out on an interview when the interviewer bring up her "supposed" difficulty. It's hilarious because she passive-aggressively proves the point right there by clamming up, giving side eye and walking out on the interviewer.

Wow all these posts about a virus and not a single one about the Pulitzer

The OnlyFans jokes about unemployed chorus boys are tired. And besides, what about the thousands of other professionals whose livelihoods depend on the theater, including plenty of blue-collar stagehand types? If Broadway is going to be kept shut down for months, the state needs to pony up with some serious financial aid for these affected workers and their families.

Well, I'll jump in. Anyone see the Pulitzer winner, STRANGE LOOP?

I saw it, R455. It was quite a lot of fun. It ran a bit long and could probably have used a bit of editing but we enjoyed it (saw it with a friend) and we even got to meet Michael R. Jackson after the show (we literally ran into him just walking through the hallways of the Playwrights Horizons theater). We chatted with him for a bit and he couldn't have been sweeter, so I'm glad for him.

I'm sure there are some blue collar stage hands that are hot enough for Onlyfans too.

Strange Loop was a dud for me. Messy and a fat, unappealing central character. But it was better than the finalist Soft Power, which was a total turd.

Were there other finalists?

[quote]And besides, what about the thousands of other professionals whose livelihoods depend on the theater, including plenty of blue-collar stagehand types

They can get an Only Fans, too.

I loved "Strange Loop" from beginning to end. Even though, it could use a little trimming and the ending at his parents house was a WTF moment, and not a good one. I thought the central character was a riot and completely adorable. I thought it was clever, great music and great cast. The night I saw it Stephanie Block was in the audience and when they took their bows, Larry Owens shouted "OMG Stephanie Block"

[Quote] what about the thousands of other professionals whose livelihoods depend on the theater, including plenty of blue-collar stagehand types

Send 'em to Betty Lynn's farm.

[quote]The night I saw it Stephanie Block was in the audience and when they took their bows, Larry Owens shouted "OMG Stephanie Block"

Did she shout back, "It's Stephanie *J* Block, you fat stupid whore?"

Well, since The Music Man ain’t coming in will I have to see that eyesore of a marquee/billboard of Beetlejuice every time I pass the Winter Garden? Won’t all the Broadway marquees have to be removed since nothing is reopening until next year, anyway?

How many Broadway theaters will reopen as theaters?

[quote]Strange Loop was a dud for me. Messy and a fat, unappealing central character. But it was better than the finalist Soft Power, which was a total turd.

I didn't see either show, but given the general quality of David Henry Hwang's work in the 30 years since M. BUTTERFLY, I would imagine the Pulitzer nod was largely due to reasons of inclusion rather than quality. Also, less competition in a shortened season.

During the awards ceremony, which was streamed on YouTube, Pulitzer Prize administrator Dana Canedy described A Strange Loop as “a metaphysical musical that tracks the creative process of an artist transforming issues of identity, race, and sexuality that pushed him to the margins of the cultural mainstream into a meditation on universal human fears and insecurities.”

In other words, it was the "wokest" offering before the committee. Gotta be woke, folk.

The other Pulitzer finalist was HEROES OF THE FOURTH TURNING, which I despised, but think maybe I need to give it a second chance. (Agree that SOFT POWER was a mess,)

Not "Tootsie"? hehe

[quote] , which I despised,

DL theatre thread drinking game. Chug every time

I was surprised SOFT POWER made it to a NY Stage. It needed a lot of development, and I saw it after the opening.

Soft Power was one of those shows where you knew there were no adults in the room.

If DIANA had been allowed to open, I’m sure it would have won the Pulitzer.

Damn you, Covid-19!!!!

My last was Glenda Jackson in "King Lear" at the Cort but I got to meet her before the performance and she signed my Criterion Collection "Women In Love" that she won the Oscar for so it was worth it.

"Joel Osteen, measuring the stage of The Gershwin" doesn't really make any sense since a mega church isn't going to be allowed to be open anymore than an actual theater, at least in NYC.

Soft Power belonged off-Broadway. It was an interesting experiment, not a Broadway show.

So true, R475. In facf after this thing runs its course maybe the organization behind “the church that love is building” will go bust and the Mark Hellinger will become a proper theater again-maybe as the Harold Prince?

I missed STRANGE LOOP, but friends enjoyed it. A couple of them raved about it.

I'm THRILLED Michael R Jackson won the Pulitzer. I hope he writes 20 more musicals.

I just realized that the theaters shutting down is a face-saving way of cancelling that Michael Jackson musical. There was too much real talent attached to it for them to admit that they made a colossal mistake in developing it, but this makes it easy for them to stop working on it.

I just heard a podcast interview with Lynn Nottage, who is still working on the book for MJ, the Jackson musical. But I suspect R479 may also be correct, in the long run.

There is way too much big money in MJ for it not to open -- Sony, The Jackson estate, etc....It will happen.

A Little Night Music - Elizabeth Taylor.

The Habit of Art - Act One.

That Habit Of Art - Act Two.

[quote]I was surprised SOFT POWER made it to a NY Stage. It needed a lot of development, and I saw it after the opening.

I suspect it would NOT have made it to the New York stage, even at the Public, if it hadn't been created by one of the few Asian playwrights with something of a name and a good reputation (undeserved) and one of the still relatively few female musical theater composers.

Per Pennebaker Hegedus Films Facebook page:

Criterion will be releasing a Blu-ray of D.A. Pennebaker's documentary COMPANY: ORIGINAL CAST ALBUM later this year. No word on extras yet.

Do we really need a clearer picture of Stritch in that? She usually looked reasonably put together, but I guess she didn't use makeup those days or rubbed her face raw with something or other.

I'm amused by all the delusionists who believe Broadway will be re-opening in the fall, especially the DL poster who repeated that absurd canard about COVID19 being just another case of the flu. Tell that to Mark Blum, or Nick Cordero. Or Terrence McNally.

How does anyone reasonable think opening in September is even remotely possible? There are no amazing, full-proof therapies, much less a vaccine. And in the United States many states (looking at you, Dixieland) are re-opening after barely being closed, and their numbers are skyrocketing each day, and will continue to do so, which will only elongate this sad, exhausting state of affairs.

Broadway is full of dreamers, so of course there are those optimists who are banking on a miracle. But lacking that, what makes theatre so special -- the gathering of a great many in close quarters to have a shared, live experience -- is also what makes it so hard to reconvene safely. The crammed seats, the lines to get in and around, the bathrooms at intermission: and those are the challenges for the audience members. How many musicals exist where the dancers never touch each other? Or where romantic leads don't kiss?

It's all depressing. It was my habit to go to the theatre two or three times a week, and I miss the experience terribly. I want theatre to come back sooner rather than later, but I'm also cognizant of the fact that things are changed forever. I think of all the theatergoers who are 60 and over who won't even consider seeing a show till there is a vaccine, cause, let's be honest here, how many shows are actually worth dying for? (Imagine dying for "Moulin Rouge" or "Slave Play"!) It will be challenging to lure those patrons back to the theatre, as it will also be to bring back the tourists.

For the record, my last show was at Ars Nova in the West Village, Heather Christians "Oratorio for Living Things," and it really felt more like a religious experience than a theatrical event. Was supposed to see "Flying Over Sunset" a few days after the curtains went down, and "Sleuth" at the McCarter that immediate weekend after. Was fortunate to see "The Hangmen" and "The Minutes" before all went dark. Really enjoyed both.

Were The Inheritance and Slave Play both eligible? If so, that's a pretty big slap in the face that they were not even finalists over Soft Power.

And now for something completely different:

Does anybody know why Tom Bosley won Best Featured Actor in a Musical for Fiorello! His part was the title role and the largest part in the show. Why wasn't he nominated for Leading Actor? There must be some sort of story there.

It's been said that if an actor wasn't above the title, they could be put in the featured category. See also: Tammy Grimes as Molly Brown.

^ And yes, this question is inspired by some discussion in the Costars Who Hated Each Other thread about how much Marian Ross hated working with Bosley in Happy Days.

Jackie Gleason was widely expected to win for Leading that year, r490, so the producers put Bosley in for Featured, hoping he could take that. And as r491 said, since he wasn't above the title, they could do that. In the original production of Fiorello!, nobody was above the title.

can anyone refresh my memory of the issue with Joel Grey not being nominated for Chicago in 97

Donna McKechnie wasn't above the title in ACL

R495 that was over a decade later. In the early 60s, it was different.

Well, I had an adventure today. Went into town, thought I'd shake 'em up a little, so I tried to find me a topless bathing suit. Yes, I did. I went into what's-their-names', and I went straight up to the swim-wear, as they call it, department and I got me an eighteen-nineties schoolteacher type, who wondered what she could do for me. And I felt like telling her, "Not much, sweetheart"....But I said, "Hello, there, I'm in the market for a topless swimsuit." "A what, Miss?" she said, which I didn't know whether to take as a compliment or not. "A topless swimsuit," I said. "I don't know what you mean," she said after a beat. "Oh, certainly you do," I said, "No top, stops at the waist, latest thing, lots of freedom." "Oh yes," she said, looking at me like she was seeing the local madam for the first time, "those." Then a real sniff. "I'm afraid we don't carry...those." "Well, in that case," I told her, "Do you have any seperates?" "Those we carry," she said, "those we do." And she started going under the counter, and I said, "I'll just buy the bottoms of one of those." She came up from under the counter, adjusted her spectacles and said, "What did you say?" I said, "I said, 'I'll buy the bottom of one of those'." She thought for a minute, and then she said, with ice in her voice, "And what will we do with the tops?" "Well," I said, "Why don't you save 'em? Maybe bottomless swimsuits'll be in next year." Then the poor sweet thing gave me a look I couldn't tell was either a D-minus, or she was going to send me home with a letter to my mother, and she said, sort of far away, "I think you need the manager." And off she walked.

[quote]I'm amused by all the delusionists who believe Broadway will be re-opening in the fall, especially the DL poster who repeated that absurd canard about COVID19 being just another case of the flu. Tell that to Mark Blum, or Nick Cordero. Or Terrence McNally.

Nick Cordero already had an underlying condition. Covid did not cause his health problems. Terrence McNally was older than God. Statistics show that there are still millions more who have had it and recovered or had it and didn't even know they were carrying the virus. Policy should not be set by a few anecdotal situations, especially in a state like New York where the governor and mayor are more interested in pumping up the numbers to get more federal aid. If Cuomo was so interested in fighting the disease, then why did he just announce cleaning of the subway cars last week, weeks after he ordered everyone non-essential to shelter in place.

What underlying condition did Cordero have?

"if it hadn't been created by one of the few Asian playwrights with something of a name and a good reputation (undeserved) and one of the still relatively few female musical theater composers."

Bingo.

"If Cuomo was so interested in fighting the disease, then why did he just announce cleaning of the subway cars last week..."

Let's see...well, maybe because cleaning the cars FIGHTS disease? And because people rely on mass transit to get to work? DUH!

[quote]Let's see...well, maybe because cleaning the cars FIGHTS disease? And because people rely on mass transit to get to work? DUH!

You've missed the point. If Cuomo was interested in fighting the disease, he would have ordered the cars to be cleaned every night at the same time he ordered the shelter in place and social distancing. He waited over a month before he requested the cars be cleaned.

R501 works at Trump Tower.

Nobody was handed a guidebook on how to handle this pandemic. Everyone is doing their best (but for the present Washington admin) to keep up with events as they develop and the knowledge that has accumulated in the interim. Finger pointing serves no purpose but to make a bad situation worse.

R482, "If she'd only been fat."

But thanks for posting the link.

The subways were being cleaned every night and deep-cleaned every 72 hours. As the homeless problem became worse, more cleaning was called for.

R501 It's a huge decision to shut the subway down; it has never been a policy in its over 100-year history, other than perhaps a day here or there during a hurricane.

[quote] Donna McKechnie wasn't above the title in ACL

[quote] [R495] that was over a decade later. In the early 60s, it was different.

It really wasn't that different. Billing games went straight through the 1990s. Daisy Egan was the absolute lead in The Secret Garden and won for Featured. Elaine Stritch was featured in A Delicate Balance and was nominated for lead. Dee Hoty was not a lead in Footloose yet was nominated as such. And James Naughton won Lead Actor in a Musical for Chicago when that role is not a lead at all. And I'm certain there were others.

As for McKechnie, my guess is the plan was to get ACL as many nominations and awards as possible, so the rules were relaxed.

[Quote] James Naughton won Lead Actor in a Musical for Chicago when that role is not a lead at all.

Tell that to the Law & Order guy.

Stritch was also nominated for Best Actress for Company and definitely not above the title.

Yeah, I know Orbach was above the title (and was nominated for lead), but I didn't mention him because I was just doing the 90s.

And I consider both Roxie and Velma leads, even in the film version, though the gave it to CZJ in supporting.

D'Amboise was nominated for in the Supporting Category for Cassie in ACL revival.

Does anyone have a scan of the poster/marquee when Orbach was above the title for CHICAGO and Chita was below?

[quote] Stritch was also nominated for Best Actress for Company and definitely not above the title.

Well, it could be argued that the entire cast was above the title for Company. Here's the poster.

And Susan Browning was also nominated for Lead Actress (but Kimbrough, Barrie and Myers were all supporting).

Producers can petition the Tony committee to place their actors in the categories they want.

Barbara Cook's Tony for "The Music Man" was in the featured actress in a musical category, although Marian is clearly the female lead.

But had she been nominated in the lead category, she wouldn't have beaten Gwen Verdon or Thelma Ritter, and she would have gone Tonyless.

[quote] D'Amboise was nominated for in the Supporting Category for Cassie in ACL revival.

To be fair, Charlotte D’Amboise will transform any lead role into supporting

You're right, R482. It isn't that bad. But it's way too damned fast. I'm glad that someone released it on DVD, but when Hen's Tooth did this transfer, they sped it up. And it's maddening!

[quote]Barbara Cook's Tony for "The Music Man" was in the featured actress in a musical category, although Marian is clearly the female lead.

And Dick Van Dyke's for "Bye Bye, Birdie" was also for featured actor, even though if anyone is the lead in that show, it's him.

[quote]As for McKechnie, my guess is the plan was to get ACL as many nominations and awards as possible, so the rules were relaxed.

The fact that a show doesn't have anyone above the title doesn't mean it can't have nominees in the leading actor and actress categories. I'm not sure if this has always been true, but now the guideline is that being above the title or not and what that means as far as what category a performer will be nominated in is only the guideline as to what happens if the producers don't request otherwise. So a performer whose name is above the title would be eligible in the leading actor or actress category, and a performer whose name is not above the title would be eligible in the supporting actor or actress category, UNLESS the producers make a request otherwise to the Tony administration committee. Of course, the committee doesn't have to honor the request, but it seems like they almost always do.

Please someone correct me if I don't have this right.

Yes, all that is well and good, R520, but Cassie isn't a lead.

As quote upthread, it boils down to what the producers can get away with...

[quote]Yes, all that is well and good, [R520], but Cassie isn't a lead.

In a way, she is because she gets a solo dance and song while the others are offstage. It's a diva moment that pushes the character into leading.

Whether an actor's name appears above the title or not is more an indication of how big a star that person is (and how much negotiating clout), not how big his role is.

[quote] As quote upthread, it boils down to what the producers can get away with...

It's not so much 'what they can get away with.' The Broadway League is one of the sponsors of the Tony Awards. They can do whatever they want because it's their awards that they give to their shows. They don't need to 'get away' with anything. They just write and subsequently revise the rules to suit themselves. There is nothing to get away with.

R521, using the logic of McKechnie in the Best Actress category, the point could also be made for Robert LuPone in the Best Actor category because Zach definitely has more lines than anyone in the show. But Bennett didn't want that so there was no petition.

R523, then D'Amboise should have been nominated in the Lead category as well. Priscilla Lopez had two solos including the only hit song at the time and didn't even get the Tony for Supporting. Of course, Pam Blair didn't even get nominated for anything.

The 1976 Lead Actor in a Musical went to George Rose as Alfred in the revival of My Fair Lady. A perfect example of WTF.

R527, D'Amboise in the A Chorus Line revival proved to me that she just doesn't have star quality

R527 She came across as so desperate on the Gwen Verdon documentary.

[quote]Does anyone have a scan of the poster/marquee when Orbach was above the title for CHICAGO and Chita was below?

Can't post it but go here to the Playbill site that has the entire original Playbill posted, you'll see the title page that you can enlarge....

R529, it took you that long? Chicago and Sweet Charity didn't prove it?

Since nothing happened to McKechnie's career, it could be said she didn't have any star quality as well.

[Quote] Can't post it but go here to the Playbill site that has the entire original Playbill posted, you'll see the title page that you can enlarge....

You misunderstand. Chita had to accept billing below the title when Orbach was above at one of the tour stops. Nothing to do with Broadway.

Oooh.

R521, Cassie can certainly be considered a lead in ACL as much as just about anyone else in the sense that a major thread of the story revolves around her. Plus she has a huge solo song and dance number. Yes, the only one in the cast who has more to do as far as being in the solo musical spotlight is Morales.

There is often no sharp-line distinction between leads and supporting players in shows, and even when there is, performers have often been nominated in the "wrong" categories, for various reasons. Tammy Grimes for supporting in MOLLY BROWN is only one of the craziest examples. It amazes me that some people here seem to expect there should be some hard and fast rules about uniformity when it comes to the categories of award nominations.

Thanks for sharing Trouble In Tahiti, [R534]. I did one of the trio parts in that years ago. One of the hardest things I ever had to sing!

I miss Lenny. :(

^ Oh honey, we all do.

[quote] You misunderstand. Chita had to accept billing below the title when Orbach was above at one of the tour stops. Nothing to do with Broadway.

That’s because, at the the tour was confirmed, neither Chita nor Gwen was expected to be a part of it. Jerry Orbach was signed as the sole above-the-title star. However, there had already been grumblings from the LA & SF CLO that they at least wanted Gwen to join him for those engagements. So the contract was written so that the only person who could go over the title with Orbach would be Gwen, if she elected to do any part of the show.

Well, pressure came to bear, & Gwen and Chita both agreed to do the LA and SF stops on the tour. (They actually went in at the end of the Chicago run and played for a week or so there, before it moved on to LA).

But because of the contracts, Chita had to go below the title. If Orbach had wanted to, he could have waived the clause & allowed Chita to join him & Gwen above the title, but he didn’t.

[quote] Cassie can certainly be considered a lead in ACL as much as just about anyone else in the sense that a major thread of the story revolves around her.

Actually no, she is auditioning for the chorus. She is just like everyone else in the hour and half, on that line, all equal. It was bullshit she was put in lead.

Here’s the tour program from Chicago, with Orbach’s solo star billing. When Gwen & Chita came in, Gwen went above next to Orbach, on the left. Chita was in the same size type just below the title.

THe way they got around people like Tammy Grimes, Tom Bosley and Dick Van Dyke getting the lesser award is by naming it "Featured." Best actor/actress was refered to as "Musical Star" or "Dramatic Star."

[quote]Cassie can certainly be considered a lead in ACL as much as just about anyone else in the sense that a major thread of the story revolves around her.

[quote]Actually no, she is auditioning for the chorus. She is just like everyone else in the hour and half, on that line, all equal. It was bullshit she was put in lead.

It seems like you've never actually seen A CHORUS LINE, or if you have seen it, that you're an argumentative bore. The Zach/Cassie relationship is a major through-line in the show, and as I noted, "The Music and Mirror" is an incredible singing and dancing showcase for Cassie. Also, whether or not Zach will hire Cassie for the chorus line is a major plot point of the climax of the show. And as you may or may not know (and I really don't care), the original ending was that Cassie was NOT hired, but that was changed -- at the suggestion of Marsha Mason, of all people -- because it was felt that the audience needed to see Cassie get the job, otherwise the ending of the show would too downbeat regardless of the finale.

Morales could be considered a lead because she has two big numbers, "Nothing" and "What I Did for Love." Zach could perhaps be considered a lead because of the way he functions in the show, but he does VERY little singing and dancing. The characters who do "I Can Do That" and "Dance: 10, Looks: 3" really can't be considered leads, because as great as those numbers are, they are one-shots, and the show doesn't otherwise spend much time on those two characters.

Alfred Doolittle is in no way the male lead of My Fair Lady but George Rose got not just the nod but the Award.

If Cassie were the lead of ACL, D'Amboise should have been nominated there instead of supporting.

I want an online pre-recorded presentation of Hairspray with Bette Midler as Edna and Beanie Feldstein as Tracy. And the gender switching can be done with Billy Porter as Motormouth Maybelle. Are you reading this, Marc Shaiman?

I like this Trouble in Tahiti. I was going to type TiT...but thought better of it. The whole thing was on Youtube, I don't know if it is anymore.

[quote]Alfred Doolittle is in no way the male lead of My Fair Lady but George Rose got not just the nod but the Award. If Cassie were the lead of ACL, D'Amboise should have been nominated there instead of supporting.

How dense are you? There has been NO CONSISTENCY in decisions about award nomination categories over the years. George Rose famously refused to be nominated in the supporting category, so the nominating committee decided to nominate him in the leading category. Of course, they didn't HAVE to do that, but they decided to. I don't remember if there was a special request on the part of the producers in that case, but regardless, the outcome was the outcome.

It's a lot easier to argue Cassie as a lead in A CHORUS LINE than to argue Alfie Doolittle as a lead in MFL, but anyway, the point is that THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE IN ANY PARTICULAR YEAR CAN DO WHATEVER IT WANTS TO DO, and sometimes that results in a performer being nominated as a lead for a certain role one year and another performer being nominated as a featured player for the same role in a revival, or vice versa.

Do you understand now? THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE CAN DO WHATEVER IT WANTS TO DO, regardless of your opinions on how wrong some of the decisions may have been.

I can't wrap my head around Tammy Grimes being nominated for featured performance in a musical. She's the lead of the whole show. It's like putting the actress playing Mama Rose or Blanche DuBois in a supporting category. No way in hell. They rarely leave the stage.

SUBWAYS ARE FOR CLEANING

[quote]The 1976 Lead Actor in a Musical went to George Rose as Alfred in the revival of My Fair Lady. A perfect example of WTF.

Made even more incomprehensible by the fact that Rose sort of sucked in the role.

So who are the leads in Follies; Phyllis or Sally? Ben or Buddy?

R507, you are actually confirming R496 's point.

In the 60s, billing seemed to matter in determining lead or featured for Tonys. But in the 70s and later it did not. Dee Hoty was not billed above the title in Footloose. Stritch also was not above the title in Delicate Balance. Nor was Naughton in Chicago.

That whole "you have to be above the title to get nominated as a lead" had gone away.

Of course few people today are ever billed above the title....but that is another story.

Follies is tricky to split, because it really is an ensemble. None of them are really the heart of the show. Some would say Sally is the female lead, but I think Phyllis gets just as much stage time and about as much to do.

[quote]Made even more incomprehensible by the fact that Rose sort of sucked in the role.

Something I understand he did quite a bit of in his personal life as well.

strut

[quote]Made even more incomprehensible by the fact that Rose sort of sucked in the role. // Something I understand he did quite a bit of in his personal life as well.

It was the death of him, R553.

If Bennett lobbied for LuPone for lead, he might have won. Sammy Williams was a lock for Supporting but he wasn't near a lead.

ACL would have won in all the acting categories. I don't know if that's ever been done in a musical.

[quote]Morales could be considered a lead because she has two big numbers, "Nothing" and "What I Did for Love."

Neither are big numbers. "Nothing" takes place in the middle of the Montage and the rest of the cast are onstage with her, no different than Val's number. She starts out "What I Did For Love" but the entire ensemble joins in. It's different with Cassie because she is entirely alone onstage and has to both sing and dance "Music & The Mirror". If she in any way goofs, there is nobody to cover for her. The song is a solo spot.

In the original cast of ACL, Donna got paid more than the other cast members. That's why she was put into Lead.

"What I Did For Love" is not a "big number" in A Chorus Line?????

Oh, dear!

R558, you are not very good at this!

Song and Dance Man - Donald O'Connor, Anthony Newley.

R519. Don't forget Chita was also nominated for Featured Actress for Bye Bye Birdie, and I'd argue that her role is even more central than Albert's. She has the "I Want" song ("An Englush Teacher, omitted from the film when the decided to change the plot yo the stupid speed chemical Alberts), she has the biggest dance sequences ("100 Ways to Kill a Man" or whatever it was called and "The Shriner's Ballet"), and the 11:00 clock number ("Spanish Rose"). Albert is the male lead and has charming numbers ("Sit on a Happy Face," "American Boy," "Talk to Me"), but when i directed a school production decades ago, casting Albert, Kim, the McAfees, Mae, and even Birdie were easy with multiple possibilities, but I had to go outside the auditioners to find someone who could handle Rosie.

[quote]"What I Did For Love" is not a "big number" in A Chorus Line????? Oh, dear! [R558], you are not very good at this!

That did come out a bit wrong. What I meant was that it would not be considered a big number for Morales. The lead-in to the song is that Zach asks the entire line what they would do if they couldn't dance. A few give verbal answers. Morales starts the song, but the entire cast joins in. It's an ensemble song rather than a song specifically for Morales.

R557 "South Pacific" won in all acting categories for Musical -- Mary Martin and Ezio Pinza for lead, Myron McCormick (Luther Billis) and Juanita Hall (Bloody Mary) for supporting.

[quote]Made even more incomprehensible by the fact that Rose sort of sucked in the role.

Said nobody ever -- other than you.

R547, that was back when the general rule was “name above the title” billing to qualify for best actor or actress. Grimes was below the title when Molly Brown opened. Same thing happened to William Daniels in 1776, and it was so ridiculous that he withdrew from the nomination (for featured actor).

The Tony committee bent the rules in 1976 to give Donna McKechnie a Best Actress nomination for ACL even though she wasn’t above the title. Chita and Gwen were *pissed*. But that was the beginning of the end of the “above the title” rule.

[quote]"Nothing" takes place in the middle of the Montage and the rest of the cast are onstage with her, no different than Val's number. She starts out "What I Did For Love" but the entire ensemble joins in. It's different with Cassie because she is entirely alone onstage and has to both sing and dance "Music & The Mirror". If she in any way goofs, there is nobody to cover for her. The song is a solo spot.

"Nothing" does indeed take place in the middle of the "Hello 12, Hello 13" montage, but it's a full length, three verse solo song with a beginning, a middle, and an end. It's also a huge crowd pleaser. Morales sings all of "What I Did For Love" -- one of the most famous songs in the show, if not THE most famous -- through once as a solo, and is only joined by the others for the repeat of about half of the song. And then Morales sings the last line as a solo with the ensemble backing her. Nobody else in A CHORUS LINE has two lengthy solos like that, though as I said from the beginning, "The Music and the Mirror" is a real showcase because of the song itself and the lengthy, bravura dance section.

R558, etc, you really are coming across as a total a**hole, and you really should just stop posting.

R482 I'm watching A Little Night Music now. It really comes to life when Diana Rigg appears.

Originally, Morales didn't sing 'What I Did For Love' - I think it was Bebe who did it but Priscilla Lopez had something in her contract that allowed her to take it away.

[quote][R558], etc, you really are coming across as a total a**hole, and you really should just stop posting.

There's no reason to be nasty because someone has a different opinion than you do.

[quote] [R507], you are actually confirming [R496] 's point.

Not really. I gave two examples of each kind of "category fraud", including those actors being over the title but having supporting roles being nominated for lead.

I must say I too am surprised that "Slave Play" was not in the running for the Pulitzer (not that I'm complaining -- I'm very happy for MRJ). Was it not eligible for some reason?

Slave Play was at NYTW the previous season and was eligible last year.

1. Slave Play isn't that beloved by critics and industry. It barely featured in the awards conversations when it was Off-Broadway; in fact, the NY Drama Critics Circle barely even considered the show for their awards last year. And it wasn't a finalist for the Pulitzer last year either. And the fact that all these awards organizations have different voters indicates that not one plurality thinks the play is deserving of major awards, much less minor ones. Sadly, it might be awarded a Tony because most of the serious contenders never got to actually open on Broadway in the season, and from discussions I've had with other people, the thought is revolting. It's not the worst play of all time, but it was overhyped and is not worthy of a Tony in this or any other year.

2. Joel Grey was not nominated for Chicago because his name was over the title in the billing and (get this) the producers never petitioned to have him considered in the featured category, where he belonged. He's said on the record that this oversight is one of the greatest disappointments of his career, and understandably so. He would have easily won the award in the featured category.

3. Producers have to petition for their performers to be in a category different than their billing if that's how they want them considered. Of course, like the Oscars and Emmys, there's some gamesmanship and strategy at play here, but the nominating committee gets to decide if the change is warranted.

4. Examples of COVID19 death are far from "anecdotal." Hell, my own accountant died on Friday night, and he was 45 with no underlying conditions. (Speaking of, I'm not aware that Nick Cordero had any underlying conditions, but now that some asshat is making that claim, I'm asking my friends who are friends with his wife to confirm yay or nay. What Trumper is on this site?) These protesters who've made this virus political can virtually suck my balls. They're exhausting and actually dangerous.

5. And on the topic of awards, the Drama Desks and the Lortels displayed abundant shade in their nominations! The Drama Desk nominators weren't having it with any of the new Broadway musicals, and the Lortels gave a giant shrug to Broadway-bound Sing Street.

6. I loved A Strange Loop and am thrilled it won the Pulitzer. Yes, it checks all the woke boxes, but it's great in spite of that, not because of it. The score is great; the story is funny, personal and HONEST to its very guts; and the PH production was superb on all counts. Not sure it should move to Broadway, but it's a thousand times better than all the jukebox musicals, especially that execrable Moulin Rouge, which felt false with every word, step and note.

7. Major thanks AGAIN to the lovely person who is posting all the NT Live links. I'm enjoying many shows I missed, and these productions help fill the theater void the pandemic has left us in.

[quote] 4. Examples of COVID19 death are far from "anecdotal." Hell, my own accountant died on Friday night, and he was 45 with no underlying conditions. (Speaking of, I'm not aware that Nick Cordero had any underlying conditions, but now that some asshat is making that claim, I'm asking my friends who are friends with his wife to confirm yay or nay. What Trumper is on this site?) These protesters who've made this virus political can virtually suck my balls. They're exhausting and actually dangerous.

I didn't respond to that claim about Nick Cordero earlier because I was locked for Prime Time, but I believe that when it was found out that he had to have his leg amputated because of the blood clots, it somehow got twisted (I'm not sure where) that he'd had blood clot issues in the past, which is completely untrue. I only saw it referred to once (on DL, actually), but I suppose that's all it takes.

Strange Loop is a hot mess, with moments of talent and skill, followed by mediocre staging and writing. And the entire end church fantasia is hideous. Also, I found big, fat, unattractive and self-loathing Usher’s story a chore.

1. [R322]: No, I did not see any production of the GWTW musical, but In 1970 I was able to secure a copy of the original 2-lp score released in Japan. I wanted the Harold Rome score, and, even though the lyrics are sung in Japanese, there’s a lot more music on it than on the single-lp English language version. As conceived by Japanese producers, the show was always meant to be a spectacle, which the Japanese reportedly love. Though there are a number of lovely songs, the one I appreciated most was a dirge after Bonnie’s death, “Bonnie Gone,” which doesn’t sound nearly as effective on the London cast album. (Eventually, the Japanese recording was also released on CD.)

BTW: I heard a bootleg live recording of the first preview of the -long - Trevor Nunn GWTW, which had good performances, but an unmemorable score. What gives?

2. Regarding billing and Tony nominations, I recall the notorious instance of William Daniels refusing the 1969 Best Featured Tony for “1776,” and rightly so, because his name was not above the title. No one’s was. So Ron Holgate won for essentially one funny song, as Richard Henry Lee. It’s still criminal that Daniels didn’t get a Tony for his brilliant performance.

3. The last show I saw before the world overturned was Charles Busch in “The Confession of Lily Dare,” which I have to confess I walked out on. It was rainy and chill that night, I was angry because I’d bought tickets for a friend and me to attend, and he cancelled, literally less than an hour before curtain, leaving me stuck for the purchase price. In addition, I didn’t think the first act was funny enough; it seemed more like a straight mellerdrammer from the turn of the 19th century, and I left, worrying about packing and taking the subway to the airport the next morning.

In an intriguing bit of luck, I was in New York from Feb. 17th to the 26th, mostly just to hang out, shop, and see shows. I got to “The Inheritance” for the second time, “Mack & Mabel” with the talk back, “Unknown Soldier,” which was beautifully done, but with an unmemorable score, the “Yank!” 10th Anniversary reunion concert at 54 Below, and my favorite show of the visit, “Darling Grenadine,” which was enchanting and very moving, a beautifully conceived production in a tiny, circular playing area. I’d love a recording of the score. (Sadly, I fear the show would not be nearly as effective in a larger playing space.)

[]I like this Trouble in Tahiti. I was going to type TiT...but thought better of it.

When Sir Arthur Seymore Sullivan, of G&S fame, was a young man, he used to sign his letters with his initials. As his reputation began to grow, however, and he was becoming a darling of London society, friends had to step in and tell him that it was not an appropriate way to sign.

[quote]R149 Did anyone see the London DROOD with Ernie Wise and DL fave Lulu?

Why didn’t Linda Lavin replace Buckley in the London DROOD?

Isn’t she big over there?

Why would she be big over there?

Wait - Dorothy Loudon

Good job, Dorothy. That song didn't sell a ticket, but that was a problem for Sweeney Todd.

I saw her three times in Sweeney Todd. She was so much better than Lansbury. Loudon let you know very early on that pulling this off so that she could have Sweeney was going to be difficult and dangerous. And that gave everything a tension that raised the stakes at every turn. And her "Not While I'm Around" was one of the most chilling things I ever saw on stage.

Great, great actress. She should have had a bigger career. And not just doing comedy.

[quote] Why didn’t Linda Lavin replace Buckley in the London DROOD? Isn’t she big over there?

Honey, she isn't even big over here.

The reason STRANGE LOOP won't work on Broadway is less about its WOKENESS, and more that its another Musical about writing a Musical. General audiences don't care about artists' struggles. It's just not interesting to people outside of the very small arts community.

Angela Lansbury is a great actress but her performances always seems calculated. The thing about Dorothy Loudon is that her performances always seem spontaneous. I think Dorothy didn't work as much because at one point she had a drink problem. I'm still not quite sure how Tyne Daly talked her way into the Gypsy revival because I think that would have been an excellent role for Loudon (if Arthur could have toned her done a bit because her Rose's Turn may have been over the top). And even if Dorothy couldn't get the first run, I would have thought she would have been a better choice than Linda Lavin. And she certainly would have been a better choice for Joanne in the Company revival than Debra Monk.

There are many of us who think Loudon didn't hold a candle to Lansbury in SWEENEY.

The reason Tyne Daly was selected for Gypsy was the Barry Weissler produced it, and Tyne had TVQ so he could tour it before coming into Broadway and measure his risk. Cagney and Lacy was a solid hit show, so people wanted to see her sing. Also, Arthur Laurent's loved her in the part.

And, she was terrific.

She couldn’t sing for shit, R588, let’s get real.

For the guy who asked, This House is playing on NTLive in 3 weeks. Woop.

Surprised they are playing that Streetcar, was bloody awful.

Details.

Broadcast Follies! Broadcast Follies! Broadcast Follies!

Loudon wasn't much of a singer either. She was a stylist. She couldn't really sing Mrs. Lovett. Her Rose would have been similarly lacking in the vocal department.

Tony and Joan as Noel and Gertie...

Loudon’s British accent was also very poor in Noises Off. Not as poor as Patti’s was, though.

[quote]Her Rose would have been similarly lacking in the vocal department.

At least I would have sung on pitch, unlike a tv actress I could name.

[Quote] At least I would have sung on pitch, unlike a tv actress I could name.

If you we could get you on stage...

Eat your heart out, Miss Carmen Cusack...

"She couldn’t sing for shit, [R588], let’s get real."

Which is why her character never made it in show business and led to her projection onto her daughters. It's similar to casting the Sally Bowles character with actors who didn't sing well. If they had been good singers, they would never have been playing in the Kit Kat Klub.

Tyne didn't have an interesting singing voice. Even when she was on pitch, it was a very flat sound, not appealing to the ear.

[quote]Broadcast Follies! Broadcast Follies! Broadcast Follies!

Seconded - not to do so would be, well, a folly. Some compensation at least for not seeing Jake G in SITPWG at The Savoy. Thank you China!

As always, MANY thanks to our National Theatre poster!! I really enjoyed The Habit of Art. A bit too clever by half? Perhaps, but I liked the play-within-a-play format. And some of my favorite actors, including Frances De La Tour and Adrian Scarborough! BTW, has anyone heard from Alan Bennett? Is he OK? Do we need to send out a search party of the Yorkshire Fusiliers?

It's well known that Tyne was seriously ill with the flu when her cast recording was made. She begged the producers to postpone but they were locked into contracts that would have made it too expensive to do so. No, she wasn't a great singer but she sounds much better and more convincing in the boots that are around. Excerpts pop up from time to time on youtube.