Catastrophic jetliner crashes

Certainly one of the most dramatic was the plane crash over Brooklyn in 1960, when two planes collided and one of them came down in Park Slope. There was one survivor, a young boy, who shortly afterwards died of his injuries.

A pic of the Park Slope disaster.

Pass, OP. There's more than enough gloom, doom and heartache on the tube 24/7 these days for my taste.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

In some very rough landings I've sometimes thought, "oh, fuck, it this goes badly, the terrible thing is that there is a change we survive but instead we all just sit here in a metal tube smelling hair and skin burn until it's mine." Falling from the sky, though, terrible as that is, it is fast, seconds, a couple of minutes. Preferable to a lot fo deaths.

These 737 Max crashes must have been horrible. The pilots tried for minutes to save the planes while coming closer and closer to the ground each time and the passengers probably knew what would happen.

The Germanwings flight were the co-pilot locked out the pilot and committed suicide with the plane was also horrible. The pilot banged on the door for minutes begging him to let him in while the plane was slowly descending.

I've never heard of this Park Slope accident, but it must have been quick ( for the passengers). Did the planes destroy any buildings or kill NYers on the ground? I'm surprised that so many airports are so close to big cities and we haven't seen more accidents. I can see planes flying over my neighborhood and literally touching the roofs.

R6 The plane that crashed in Brooklyn was a DC-8. It crashed into the Park Slope section of Brooklyn at the intersection of Seventh Avenue and Sterling Place and set fire to ten brownstone apartment buildings, the Pillar of Fire Church, the McCaddin Funeral Home, a Chinese laundry, and a delicatessen. Six people on the ground were killed.

My mind went to the Germanwings one, too, mentioned by R6. Those passengers knew something was wrong and could probably see the ground coming closer and closer. Much different from when a sudden crash happens and shock probably sets in immediately.

I'm a really morbid bastard, I'll admit it. Possibly the most horrendous crash, in my opinion, because it was relatively close to home, was Swissair 111 on September 2, 1998, while on its way to land in Halifax, Nova Scotia. It hit the water off Peggy's Cove at night, and needless to say, there were no survivors. A friend of mine was one of the many who volunteered to take his boat out looking for survivors. There were none, and the search became a hunt for body parts. He told me that it was a scene from hell and he suffered from PTSD afterwards.

The one where they survived in the Andes and had to eat corpses, obviously.

Not to be all superficial, but those buildings at r2 are magnificent. I hope they're still extant.

I lived on St Johns Place a block over in the mid 80s and never new this happened! Of course that's prime slope and was GORGE. I was priced out across Flatbush in the late 80s. Eventually priced out completely.

never knew

"Air Disasters" on Smithsonian Channel has graphic recreations of the crashes, both before and after. The episode on TWA 800 that exploded in mid air and crashed in the ocean near Long Island showed one of the flight attendants still strapped in her seat screaming her head off as the plane broke in half in front of her and flames were all around as her half of the plane continued for a few seconds before plunging into the ocean.

It also recreated the Germanwings crash in detail. Another really memorable one was the accident at Tenerife where one jumbo jet tore off the top of another one on the runway during takeoff. Really awful, and yet so compelling and morbidly fascinating.

R11, I was curious after reading your post, so I looked it up. That beautiful building with the turrets (or whatever they are called) is still there, and looking as grand as ever.

I was in a small jet that crashed on the runway and burst into flames while screeching down the runway (landing gear collapsed) and fuel tanks were leaking...the flames were visible on both sides of the plane through the windows...all I could think while the plane was moving down the runway is that “this really could be the last minute of my life or we need to get out as soon as the plane stops”...luckily the front door opened when the plane stopped and we all got out...the steps were straight out as the plane belly was flat on the runway and there was jet fuel everywhere...will never forget the smell...the plane blew up and was engulfed in flames within 60 seconds of getting out...still have moments when I shudder to think about it and it almost feels like it happened to someone else..but the 10 people who survived (all the passengers/crew) are forever connected by this shared event ...and the Coronavirus situation finally but some sort of trauma block on this memory...since the crash, I never know when I will have a panic attack when I fly....

If you look at the crashes a lot of them are human caused. What a lot of folks don't realize is that aircraft now are HIGHLY automated. He captain and pilot are just babysitting it. You can thank Lockheed's L1011 as it was a highly automated aircraft , the first actually. I'd say 75% human caused, 25% engineering caused.

I don't have time at the moment to post anything lengthy about this event, but the story of the "Gimli Glider" is worth reading. (This was caused by a human error but has a happy ending.)

OP is JG Ballard's ghost.

It still weirds me out that a plane can be up in the air for hours with so much to go wrong.

[quote]I can see planes flying over my neighborhood and literally touching the roofs.

I don’t think you know what literally means.

The KLM Tenerife, Canary Islands crash was horrible, but the case to me that is most horrific would be Malaysian Airlines 370 that disappeared.

[R1]: The 1960 airplane collision also immediately came to my mind as well. The boy’s name was Steven Baltz. There were news photos of his charred body, but eyes wide open. He’d been thrown, burning, from the wreck. Passersby had smothered the flames, and he was taken to a hospital, but he died soon after. As I recall, his entire family died as well: father, mother, and sister.

This meant something to me, because he was about the same age as I was. (He was 10, I was 11.) And we even sort of looked alike, both with crew cuts. And, this happened just before I was scheduled to accompany my parents to New York, to meet my two older brothers and spend Thanksgiving together.

The crash and Steven’s death brought home to me the precariousness of life. So I was very nervous about flying to the same place. Flying is scary.

EEK!

Alaska Airlines 261 was probably the most horrific, since the passengers knew for several minutes that they were going to die.

My great-aunt & uncle were on the PanAm flight at Tenerife. Their remains were never found.

R23 Here he is.....

The one in DC where the flight hit a bridge and crashed into the Potomac River. Several survivors. One flight attendant almost survived but died int the freezing river just before rescue. Several had to stay in the freezing river for the longest time. They made a movie out of it.

[Quote]I don’t think you know what literally means.

What I do know for sure, is that you're an asshole and embittered person. Literally.

[R11], [R15] I believe it's a corner oriel, and yes, it is still there and is one of the Park Slope's most elaborate houses. The curious not-quite-spire is sometimes called a "candle-snuffer" as it has the bell-like shape of the instrument. The brownstone across the street also survived - basically you'd never know such a tragedy occurred at that intersection.

Thanks so much for the info, R30. Much appreciated!

Japan Air Flight 123, which crashed into Mount Takamagahara with the loss of 590 lives.

There were many survivors of the initial crash, but owing to the delayed response of the Japanese emergency services and their refusal to allow the US military to assist with the rescue effort, all but 4 perished from their injuries and hypothermia during the night following the crash.

Japan Air Flight 123, which crashed into Mount Takamagahara with the loss of 590 lives.

There were many survivors of the initial crash, but owing to the delayed response of the Japanese emergency services and their refusal to allow the US military to assist with the rescue effort, all but 4 perished from their injuries and hypothermia during the night following the crash.

You;re welcome, [R31]! I used to live in the area and often walked by and admired that house. A sad detail - the injured boy was given over for care to a young nurse - and they purposely did not tell her that they knew his injuries were mortal, because they wanted her to provide emotional care for him that they felt she couldn't if she knew he was doomed. She only found this out later and was bitterly hurt by it.

That Alaskan Air flight was diving and the pilots were trying anything, including flying the plane inverted, to save it, right to the bitter end.

Air France Flight 447 was terrifying to me. The junior pilot didn't understand what was happening with the plane and was trying to climb, meanwhile the plane was actually descending. He was stalling the plane and needed to point the nose down to pick up speed. Alarms would have been screaming to pull up. The captain finally comes into the cockpit (he had been sleeping), tells them what to do to correct it, but it's too late and they crash into the Atlantic. The engineering/software corrections that Airbus made (planes now automatically go nose down when they think they're stalling) is what led to planes crashing on takeoff/initial climb out last year.

TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996 over Long Island.

Many eyewitnesses saw what appeared to missile flying from the ground up to the plane second before it exploded. Some believe it was an errant US military missile, but the military claimed it was not true.

It was a passenger and not a flight attendant who died while awaiting rescue in the Palm 90 Potomac crash. They later renamed the bridge the plane struck after him.

I'm with R25. That Alaska Airlines flight was horrific. The plane literally flew upside-down for 2 or 3 minutes before crashing. Can you imagine being one of the passengers? Since it was flying from Puerto Vallarta to San Francisco, there were a number of gays and lesbians aboard, as well as several small children.

Air France flight 4590 (Concorde)

[R27]: Should I thank you for showing photos that were seared into my memory? I wonder.

You can tell he was still alive and aware.

R40 I've seen the photo with his eyes open, as well. I first saw the pictures when I was in my teens, and they've haunted me ever since.

^ Did they really publish that picture? This would never happen today unless some freak snapped a pic with his smartphone and put it on his SM.

Yes, I remember seeing it in a magazine. My father was a great keeper of old magazines like the Saturday Evening Post and Life. I used to love looking through them, and that's likely where I saw that picture. I think I've found it.

^Ugh. Poor kid is lying in a huge pile of dirty NY snow.

Helios Flight 522: the ghost flight over Greece.

Almost all of the passengers and crew were rendered unconscious due to a loss of pressure - almost all, save for one flight attendant who made a valiant attempt to control the doomed plane until it crashed into the hills surrounding Athens.

That JAL 123 flight that has already been mentioned. If I recall correctly, the plane was flying for quite some time with everybody on the board knowing that they will eventually hit the mountain and die. I believe they found in the debris half-burnt pieces of paper on which some of the passengers were writing their goodbye notes and last wishes for their friends and families.

It’s been a while since we had a plane crash thread.

In terms of passenger horror, I think Alaska, Germanwings, JAL 123, and Swissair 111 are all the stuff of nightmares, along with both of the 737 Max crashes.

Another couple not yet mentioned on this thread: Korean Airlines 007, shot down in 1983, and South African Airways 295 in 1987, which had an in-flight cargo fire. In both cases passengers knew they were in trouble.

The northwest crash at DTW In 1987. I grew up about 25 miles away and was just returning from Toronto that night when I heard about it. Only one survivor!

PSA flight 182 still haunts me after 40+ years. It was only about 2 minutes from a safe landing when it collided with a Cessna and came down in the middle of a San Diego neighborhood. There's a famous and disturbing photo of the plane hurtling towards the ground with one of its wings in flames. The first Faces of Death video includes raw footage of the aftermath. And the "screaming Superman" story is pure nightmare fuel.

ive been watching aircrashes programs on cable tv on actual cases of airplane crashes lately. For some reason in this awful time of coronavirus etc it makes the day to day reality more bearable watching this kind of thing for whatever reason.

When I worked, I traveled a lot for work and went on many vacations. In retirement Im more strapped financially and cant afford it much. Seeing the # of crashes caused by pilot error and some of the freak accidents that occur, and why, makes me a little less nostalgic for travel.

It has been a while since we had a really big crash here in the U.S. though. The last one I can remember is the big Airbus crash in Queens shortly after 9/11, and that was almost 20 years ago.

The plane that crashed in Lockerbie, Soctland always bothered me. The following text I lifted from the Wiki (attached). So many innocent people died, both on the plane and on the ground.

Pan Am Flight 103 was a regularly scheduled Pan Am transatlantic flight from Frankfurt to Detroit via London and New York. On 21 December 1988, the aircraft operating the transatlantic leg of the route was destroyed by a bomb, killing all 243 passengers and 16 crew in what became known as the Lockerbie bombing. Large sections of the aircraft crashed onto a residential street in Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 11 people on the ground. With a total of 270 people killed, it is the deadliest terror attack in the history of the United Kingdom.

R52 I recently read a book about Lockerbie. It's the stuff of which nightmares are made.

Fire r49, raw news footage of 182. I remember reading on the 25th anniversary of the crash how one witness saw a man hurled through the air down a residental street in a superman flying position making a high pitch squealing sound and landed in a tree.

These are my favorite threads!

The worst , worst, WORST ever (as a passenger) would be that PSA crash in 1987 in California. The piece of shit who worked for PSA got caught skimming from some cash drawer and got fired. He then boards a place that his boss was on. He shoots the guy (after writing a scary message on a barf bag) then shoots a stewardess, shoots the pilot and co pilot (possibly shoots himself) and crashes the plane at one of the highest speeds ever recorded. Horrifying.

Second most horrifying- that Swissair crash from 1998- Just the dark, cold water- the pilots trying to fight a fire in the cockpit, and then the captain coming out of cockpit after the fire is uncontrollable.... NO ONE FLYING THE PLANE. Can you imagine being a passenger on that? It was at full engine throttle, so despite it crashing from a relatively low altitude, it was at full speed so it crashed at around 450 miles per hour... The passengers were in pieces. Excellent article online from Esquire from 2001 or so....

The 3rd and 4th worst to me are that American Eagle Flight that crashed in Roselawn in 94, the fucking horrible Flight 427 US AIR Crash in 94-

Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, shot down by Iran just three months ago. Tragic collateral damage from US/Iran conflict

For r55, here ares done recreations. Enjoys. I love these threads and I love to fly. What does that say about me?

[quote] Of all the ways to go, is there anything more horrific than a catastophic jetliner crash?

Almost drowning is pretty terrifying.

Also- From what I have read, that Alaska Airlines crash from 2000 was harrowing as fuck.

Those pilots were CLASS ACTS- they truly died as heroes. Read about that one. Those men were amazing.

I saw a plane crash show and that wonderful Mary Shiavo (she ran some major organization related to airplane safety in the 90's?) Anyway, she said that what the people went through on that flight was a pure nightmare. She actually choked up. It was a sobering moment. Great lady.

There was lots of local coverage of the Park Slope crash on the 50th anniversary.

NY Times:

[quote]The 3rd and 4th worst to me are that American Eagle Flight that crashed in Roselawn in 94, the fucking horrible Flight 427 US AIR Crash in 94

They were the first and second crashes in US history where the crash sites were declared to be biohazards, and the NTSB investigators had to wear full body suits.

At Least that PSA crash happened quickly. Only a few seconds between the impact and the crash.

09.01:11 CAM-2 Are we clear of that Cessna?

09.01:13 CAM-3 Suppose to be.

09.01:14 CAM-1 I guess.

09.01:20 CAM-4 I hope.

09.01:21 CAM-1 Oh yeah, before we turned downwind, I saw him about one o'clock, probably behind us now.

09.01:38 CAM-2 There's one underneath.

09.01:39 CAM-2 I was looking at that inbound there.

09.01:45 CAM-1 Whoop!

09.01:46 CAM-2 Aghhh!

09.01:47 CAM Sound of impact

09.01:49 CAM-1 Easy baby, easy baby.

09.01:51 CAM [sound of electrical system reactivation tone on cvr, system off less than one second]

09.01:51 CAM-1 What have we got here?

09.01:52 CAM-2 It's bad.

09.01:53 CAM-2 We're hit man, we are hit.

09.01:56 RDO-1 Tower, we're going down, this is PSA.

09.01:57 TWR Okay, we'll call the equipment for you.

09.01:58 CAM [sound of stall warning]

09.02:04.5 CAM-1

PA-1

CAM-1

CAM This is it!

Brace yourself!

Mom I love you!

[end of recording]

At Least that PSA crash happened quickly. Only a few seconds between the impact and the crash.

09.01:11 CAM-2 Are we clear of that Cessna?

09.01:13 CAM-3 Suppose to be.

09.01:14 CAM-1 I guess.

09.01:20 CAM-4 I hope.

09.01:21 CAM-1 Oh yeah, before we turned downwind, I saw him about one o'clock, probably behind us now.

09.01:38 CAM-2 There's one underneath.

09.01:39 CAM-2 I was looking at that inbound there.

09.01:45 CAM-1 Whoop!

09.01:46 CAM-2 Aghhh!

09.01:47 CAM Sound of impact

09.01:49 CAM-1 Easy baby, easy baby.

09.01:51 CAM [sound of electrical system reactivation tone on cvr, system off less than one second]

09.01:51 CAM-1 What have we got here?

09.01:52 CAM-2 It's bad.

09.01:53 CAM-2 We're hit man, we are hit.

09.01:56 RDO-1 Tower, we're going down, this is PSA.

09.01:57 TWR Okay, we'll call the equipment for you.

09.01:58 CAM [sound of stall warning]

09.02:04.5 CAM-1

PA-1

CAM-1

CAM This is it!

Brace yourself!

Mom I love you!

[end of recording]

I always wonder what those final moments before impact are like for the passengers, while the plane is falling from the sky. Or on board one of the 9-11 jets as they flew low over NYC before hitting the towers. They all know they’re about to die but it takes several minutes before it happens.

Also, "the superman" apparently landed head first in a woman's car with her baby in the back seat, not in a tree. Not much was left of him. People stepping out of their houses after hearing a loud noise said they saw body parts falling from the sky. Employees at a local news station were fired because they did not edit some of the cruel footage from the scene. Lots of people were severely traumatized after this crash.

After reading some of these stories, I'm glad I'm not a first responder or work for the fire department. I would need constant therapy.

A detailed account of the PSA crash in San Diego on September 25, 1978

The Aeroméxico Flight 498 / Piper Archer collision over Cerritos, CA, that killed all 67 onboard, plus 15 on the ground. I remember this because my aunt lived a few blocks away and called my mom saying there were body parts and debris in her pool, and her neighbor found a leg on his roof.

I don't know about crashes, but this is a plane disaster!

[quote] We are shielded from the horrific truth about what these victim endured in the moments prior to their death.

We know what the last moments are like (minus having Ethan Hawke beside you)

I remember reading about this in a newspaper when I was in college. September 25th, 1978. PSA 182 in San Diego. It hit a small plane flying below it.

R71 here. Obviously I didn't read the posts before this... I was too scared to.

If we're talking about movie scenes that are way too realistic, I give you Castaway. Tom Hanks seeing the rippling waves through the cockpit windshield is terrifying.

No one has mentioned yet Turkish Airlines 981 which had just taken off from Orly Paris headed for Heathrow London. 346 deaths. Mechanic couldn't read English and didn't know how to close the rear cargo door which flew off in flight causing the floor of the cabin to collapse on the controls.

[quote]I can see planes flying over my neighborhood and literally touching the roofs.

Oh, the humanity!

I too was morbidly curious as to the reactions and the what-ifs of airline disasters. I think this thread cured me of that.

Whoopi Goldberg was living in San Diego at the time of the PSA 182 crash and saw the actual collision. As a result she has an intense fear of flying to this day.

MissLucy in R9, I guess you are too busy being morbid together your facts right. Swiss Air SR111 was neither close to home or destined for Halifax. It was a regularly scheduled flight between JFK and Geneva, and was dubbed “The UN Shuttle” because of its regular manifest of mostly UN personnel.

When the entertainment system caught fire, the crew requested to divert to Boston, but were informed Halifax was closer, so they accepted vectors there. Alas, the fire engulfed the plane before the could make it to land, and crashed off Peggy’s Cove.

R55 there is no evidence or even reason to speculate that any crew member left the flight deck because the fire was uncontrollable so they just gave up. It’s one thing to ponder the horror and finality of a plane crash, or being in one. It’s another, irresponsible and just asshole-ish thing to make up your own scenario, or create bullshit out of thin air.

There are a lot of peoples’ lives on the line when airplane incidents occur, and facts are important both for crewmembers’ legacies as well as for the future of aviation. The reason we don’t have the accidents today that happened before is because we’ve what deficiencies existed before from the facts, and created technology or changed procedures to address them.

^^^

We’ve identified what deficiencies....

R78- Sorry, I really thought that WAS the scenario. Needless to say, those pilots tried to fight that fire and did the best they could. It is an unfathomable situation...I know there was a lot of second guessing regarding them spending time dumping fuel, but I do not think anything would have made a difference.....

There are videos on Youtube from a Business Class passenger who took videos on the actual airplane in the mid-late 90s- It is amazing when you see that plane in the interior prior to the accident. It was a beautiful plane.

There's a website where you can hear hundreds of black box audio and conversations with the airforce. it's truly sad. A couple of them you can even hear the passenger's despair as the plane comes crashing down. There's a Japanese one where they're so cold saying, Oh, this is it. You did well captain and it crashes. It's not for the faint of heart.

Brace yourselves: viewer discretion is advised.

The captain of Swissair 111 had left his seat, most likely to try and fight the fire (there was no evidence that he left the cockpit, however), but the co-pilot stayed in his seat and continued to fly the plane. He shut down one of the engines approximately one minute before the crash.

There are websites out there that have uncensored pics of bodies from crashes. Some years back, my morbid curiosity got the better of me and I found pictures of victims from the Helios crash in 2005 (mentioned above at R45), the 2006 GOL crash in the Brazilian jungle, and the 2007 TAM crash in Sao Paulo. And of course, there's [italic]Faces of Death[/italic] with the footage of mutilated parts of bodies from the PSA San Diego crash. Definitely something that you can't unsee.

Ok r83 I am going to regret this, but how do I see the Faces of death video you refer to?

Is Faces of Death or the PSA footage available online somewhere? I checked LiveLeak for some clips, but this site is mostly shit now.

There was a blog about PSA some time back, I’m not sure if it’s still online but the comments section brought friends and family of the passengers and crew, first responders who were there, people who lived in the residential neighborhood that the plane struck.

Some things I remembered was that a lot comments about seeing a lot of the passengers had soiled themselves, also that only 3 bodies were found intact. I think one woman was putting up clothes in her daughters room and the torso of a flight attendant flew through the window and landed on her. Also a lot of the first responders and people that lived in the area were in therapy because of it. Someone recalled a first responder finding a penis and I think they ended up pulling first year forensics/criminal justice students out to help with recovering remains.

The remain that turned up was in 1996, someone found a skeletonized hand in a bush in their backyard.

R84 / R85, it's on YouTube.

R84/85 it’s starts right at the hour and half mark.

I remember after MH-17 was shot down over Ukraine the locals said body parts were falling from the sky. There were pictures of severed limbs in the middle of their houses that had crashed through their roofs. I recall it was a rural area and there were photos of farmers standing around looking at pieces of the wreckage and mangled body parts in the middle of their fields. Apparently one of of their crops was sunflowers and it was so incongruous seeing these awful pieces of wreckage in the middle of beautiful fields of sunflowers.

This one is by far the most terrorizing. Everyone lived. Imagine spending what, an hour or so flying with no roof!

That's Aloha flight 243 in 1988, and not everyone lived. One flight attendant was ejected from the plane.

I'm sorry we cannot die faster to keep you entertained, OP.

When I've been in situations where I thought I was gonna die (smoke in an airplane; choking on food), my first two thoughts were "really? today?" "and "this is going to be horrible for my loved ones." I wasn't panicked in either situation. I was more in awe of the moment.

If you wonder why people believe in God and cling to religion it's because of horror like this.

From all I know, from nearly every similar NDE account or out of body experience, the moment they die their pain ceases. So everyone still alive is suffering from PTSD and depression but the dead are completely happy to be in wherever they are making them feel good.

In fact, so many of them are mad they have to come back. They say it felt so good. Still a horrible way to go but maybe the afterlife on the other side let's this crap happen because in the grand scheme our souls never die.

Not that that's much comfort but after seeing something horrible like that I got to turn to the New Age and listen to those Embraced by the Light stories. Put on some Dannion Brinkley. Some Raymond Moody. I can't cope otherwise. I simply cannot.

Unfortunately that YouTube video is geoblocked.

R86, I recall that blog (and I might have posted it here before). After some digging, and using the wayback machine (since the site itself seems to have been deactivated sometime in 2018), here is the link. Lots of second-hand and even first-hand witness accounts, and yes, it's quite graphic:

R93 My hope is that maybe our lives kind of are like a show in a sense. Maybe we come here to live, experience and die. When you die, you do it. Then the curtains roll open and the lights come on and someone says "..and that's what it's like to be human. Neat, huh? You thought you were going to die. What emotion! You ready for another life? Ooh here's a pamphlet about Alpha Centaurus. Or perhaps a grasshopper this time? What do you think? Would you like to be a star? Now remember it's going to feel like a long time but it will be over before you know it. Want another plane crash?"

My personal favorite.

R94, your reading on NDEs is incomplete or skewed. Some experiences are horrific and frightening, and a return to physical life is welcomed.

Also, a belief in a deity or afterlife is not necessarily related to a fear of death or painful death.

Mors et vita mystérium aequales.

Say what you want about the tragic loss of life, but I think the most horrible part of plane crashes is that CNN puts Richard Quest on 24/7 for days afterwards. I can't take that little pisspot!

I used to live not too far from the San Diego crash site, and I went over there a few times over the years. It was on Dwight Street, between Nile Street and Boundary Street, in the North Park neighborhood of San Diego. Very close to the 805 freeway; in fact the lore is that the pilot was trying to land on the freeway instead of houses. It's an old neighborhood, so you see mainly very old houses but then a cluster of 1970s style houses, built in place of the ones that burned down. Otherwise no clue of what happened there and no trace left of it, save for one empty lot that never had a new house built on it. I guess residents were trying to forget about it. Kind of a melancholy feeling being right where it happened, but no sign or symbol, as if all those people were forgotten. Finally in 2018 I read that a small memorial there was dedicated on the 40th anniversary.

Did the crash bankrupt PSA? I've never heard of that airline. They probably had to pay shitloads of money to the families, people who lost their homes and traumatized residents and first responders. 22 houses were destroyed and several others damaged plus destroyed cars and infrastructure. I guess if a plane goes down, the company is lucky if it happens over an empty field or the ocean.

BOAC Flight 781 is pretty horrific in the way all 35 onboard died. The plane, a de Havilland Comet crashed into the sea near Elba Island in Italy. Most of the recovered bodies had ruptured lungs and fractured skulls. Upon conducting a simulation using crash test dummies, it was determined that the fuselage had depressurized due to metal fatigue and exploded, resulting in passengers' lungs rupturing and their bodies slamming head first into the ceiling.

IIRC the phrase "plane crash lover" refers not to people who love plane crashes, but to a situational morbidity where people experiencing or in the act of surviving a catastrophic event interact each other on intimate levels as if they have known each other at least as well as lovers might be expected to.

It appears to be a survival mechanism, but has also led to spiritual exploration. I think there was a film about a band of plane-crash survivors, based on case studies, that explored this behavior.

I experienced it myself during 9/11.

"Very close to the 805 freeway; in fact the lore is that the pilot was trying to land on the freeway instead of houses."

I don't think this is true. There were only seconds left between the impact and the crash and the plane lost a wing and was out of control.

A lot of people made mistakes that day. The Cessna pilot was a student (wearing a hoodie over his head !!!!)and changed course, flight control did not warn the pilots of a collision even though they had 19 seconds after the alarm and the pilot never informed the tower he lost sight of the Cessna.

R101 no it didn’t they merged with USAir in 1987, I think they quit using the name shortly afterwards. There was another PSA crash in 1987 where a fired employee boarded the same flight as the man who fired him. The man had a loaded gun and wrote the man a note on an air sick bag then shot him. The crew heard the shot and a flight attendant ran up to tell them what just happened. The man shot the flight attendant dead then shot the crew. He pushed the control column forward and the plane crashed into the side of a mountain going almost 800 miles an hour.

R90 , my parents flew on that Hawaiian Airlines Flight several weeks before that happened . I had a picture of them standing outside Receiving Leis .

I had a friend in New Orleans , grew up near the airport . A plane exploded over his house , he looked outside to see bodies falling . Part of the plane landed On the house across the street , killing his best friend. He turned to hard drugs And it ruined his life .

R101 - R101 - Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA) did have to pay out large sums in damages after the 1978 crash in San Diego, but it did not bankrupt the company. In fact they continued to operate for 10 more years until 1988, though they were bought out by US Air in 1987. They did suffer another crash, though, in 1987, not as many people as the San Diego crash, but still 43 killed, I think, near the coastal small town of Cayucos, California. That crash, however, was an intentional sabotage by a disgruntled employee of USAir after he was fired - his former boss was on the plane too. (That crash was PSA Flight 1771.)

I remember Joan Didion saying that PSA had flights between LA and San Francisco for low fares, so in the '60s and '70s people would fly to one city for dinner and back the same night. After the 1978 disaster, that stopped.

R86

While I'm sure many may have soiled themselves out of fear, death itself causes evacuation of bodily waste since there's no more muscle control at that point.

Is there any other kind?

The saddest crash I know of was the one that took the entire U.S. figure skating team.

That's very sad. I like to think they all went to ice skating heaven and it was a great party.

R103 That also happens to a lesser and less dangerous extent on a shaky bridge. It's a dating hack; go somewhere thrilling to bond with your date. Something about needing each other for survival.

It will be really cool someday if science can figure out the afterlife. Possibly some sinister attempts to bring them back.

I had a druggie point a gun at me and some random passersby during a fail mugging attempt. The world did go entirely on slow motion as it happened. It's something very strange, I sure thought I was gonna die. I didn't think of anything but how surreal it was everything was so slow motion-y.

[quote]Someone recalled a first responder finding a penis

Cut or uncut?

[quote]Someone recalled a first responder finding a penis

[quote]Cut or uncut?

It was definitely mutilated.

R113. I had a drug addict pull an automatic weapon on me and I can co-sign that everything went in slow motion until I BOOKED it thru Central Park faster than I've ever ran in my life. I thought I was dead also

What gets me is a lot of these accidents could have been avoided with proper attention to detail and care.

R111 is so sad. All those gaylings cut down in their prime.

Tim Brown, the bronze-medal qualifier, cheated death on that flight because he had a newly diagnosed heart condition and the alternate went in his place. Tim became a coach and died of AIDS in the '80s.

R78 When I said that the Swissair crash was "close to home," I meant close to my home. I'm in Nova Scotia. As well, I said that it was "on its way to land" in Halifax, which is true. I didn't say that this was its original destination.

[quote] I'd say 75% human caused, 25% engineering caused.

And you’d be wrong

[quote] It was a passenger and not a flight attendant who died while awaiting rescue in the Palm 90 Potomac crash. They later renamed the bridge the plane struck after him.

And they did so because he kept handing the life line that was thrown to him, to other surviving passengers. It is said he was too tangled and trapped to make it out anyway.

Another Good Samaritan hero in that story was hot bystander Lenny Skutnik who jumped in the river to save hypothermia-affected passenger Priscilla Tirado, bumbling in the river after losing her baby.

Lenny Skutnik

Honored w/pornstache

Skutnik, still a pretty hot daddy these days

[quote] The Cessna pilot was a student (wearing a hoodie over his head !!!!)

Forgive my ignorance, but why is this a big deal?

[quote] I thought I was dead also

What if you are?

(Cue eerie music.)

R97, it’s not a complete corollary today your suggestion, but may I refer you to the movie, “Defending Your Life”?

peoples reactions are different. Some go down screaming while some stay calm. I was on a US Air prop jet with 3 other people. We were halfway to our destination at a major airport coming from a small town airport. The plane began to fill with smoke but just as quickly disappeared but when we looked out the window to the left, the propeller was no longer turning. I was the only one that missed seeing the flames shooting out of the propeller because I was praying asking forgiveness for anything I had done wrong or any wrong I had done to anyone. My last request was "please make it quick". The only one after that made any noise or said anything was me, telling the young couple behind me that it was going to be okay. What none of us knew at the time was that the plane could fly one propeller but when landing the plane had to stop immediately or it would go into a spin. The major airport made us turn back since we were at the halfway mark and they didn't want to shut down for an emergency. What bothered me the most though was the next week when I was returning I saw the copilot that had been on that plane. He sat down and asked me what had happened because they didn't know. All they knew was the cabin was starting to fill with smoke and they were getting ready to drop the masks when the smoke disappeared so they Shut down the one propeller. They didn't know about the flames and actually told me they had no idea what was going on and that they were scared. Not really what one wants to know because we want to believe that all pilots are captain Sully. But I was happy to know that I was not afraid to die, I never thought I was but you don't really know until you are tested.

R125, I think the student pilot was wearing a hood or headpiece which blocks peripheral vision. It's intended to force the pilot to focus solely on the instruments.

op is on ignore,

Wow that blog on PSA. Those comments are still seated into my brain.

Those poor people in the area that witnessed it. You could tell even in 2007 and 2008, they were still traumatized.

I hope it was quick for passengers in both planes. In real reading through that.

British Airtours flight 28M at Manchester Airport UK changed the design of the cabin on every aircraft after 55 people were burned alive trying to escape after an engine fire.

The strings of lights that lead to the exits are a direct result of the disaster.

I read somewhere about how after a crash it was discovered that the difference between the passengers who got off the plane alive and those that did not was blood alcohol level. I think this was a flight from Miami to Toronto, but I'm sure I'm wrong.

One of the iconic images of PSA 182 going down. I think the photographer may have won a Pulitzer for it. He’s was covering some kind of ribbon cutting ceremony that day I think.

R1, I remember that one. I was nine years old and a news junkie even then. The boy fell onto a snowbank. I recall being amazed that he had a five-dollar bill in his pocket.

R135 here. I think that incident engendered my lifelong fascination with plane crashes and the books about them.

For me, the most horrific would probably be the crash into the Everglades.

KAL 007 is right up there; Concorde; Tenerife; Pan Am 103; TWA 800; JFK, Jr.

The crash with our 1960 Olympic skating team.

my worst fear is dying in an airplane crash. turbulence is scary enough. can't believe I scrolled through this whole thread. flying is a necessary evil but driving in a car is still the way to most likely to die, right?

A few things I remember reading about Tenerife was that it took longer to identify some of the victims because a number of them came from a few retirement homes from Southern California on a group vacation and had no dental records to reference because they had dentures.

Another story was of a woman who got a loved ones possessions and one thing she got was a diamond ring that had something that had burned into the ring. She found it it was charred skin.

Thank you, r129. That explains it.

I remember seeing one on those aircrash recreation shows that crashed into water. A lot of people survived the initial impact but due to their inflating their life vest before exiting the plane, they couldn’t go under the water to swim out the open door. Many drowned while the fuselage filled up with water.

I don’t know why but that haunted me. You survive a plane crash but die inside the plane by drowning because you didn’t hear the message at the beginning of the flight and/or you were too panicked to know not to inflate it.

Sheesh.

R140, that sounds like the Ethiopian Airlines crash in the 90s that resulted from a hijacking. It ran out of fuel.

Any other morbid fans of SAA 295? An inflight cargo fire caused the 747 to break up towards the end of a flight from Taiwan to Johannesburg. Lots of speculation to this day about the nature of the cargo.

Thank God airplanes dont.fly over residential areas!

In my spare time Iwatch this YouTube Channel. It's a Flight Simulator recreation of the actual events that took place.

After watching a good deal of these videos, I would say at least half are preventable. Like Tenerife was due to a diversion because of terrorism at another airport, air traffic control watching a game, impatience on the pilots part, and a lack of clear communication.

I'm always fascinated it takes a major accident for them to flesh out safety procedures. It's clear no one has any type of creative thinking, problem solving skills in anticipation of what may occur. I'm just mad people die from stupidity.

The pilot who survived getting sucked out after the cockpit window broke.

The flight attendants were actually discussing if they should release him and let him fly out. The other pilot told them to fuck off. The body could be like a bird strike and hit the engine.

They would have pushed an alive man to his death.

^ ???

I remember that one too, r144.

Before I knew he survived I remember thinking oh he’s dead without a doubt.

Here's a Mayday about it.

R142 Aeroplanes fly over my house all of the time ( I live about 8 miles from a busy airport ) , It's the same for inland airports in almost all of Europe.

R143 Took a flight from that aiport Los Rodeos and could see how easily that happened. Clouds rolled down the hills often obscuring the runway. Exciting place to be.

Also have been watching a lot of ATC and pilot interaction videos. It's incredibly eye opening how much miscommunication happens. You want to think they're completely in sync but so much human emotion and stupidity gets in the way.

Turkish airlines flight 981 crashed in Paris 1974. Horrific crash scene.

Faulty cargo door buckled as the aircraft was climbing and severed the control cables.

not a jetliner but this jet crash was definitely catastrophic and horrific.

again, not a jetliner but ... yeah.

In regards to R25 post about Alaska Airlines:

"Beginning at 16:19 (00:19 UTC), the CVR recorded the sounds of at least four distinct "thumps" followed 17 seconds later by an "extremely loud noise", as the overstrained jackscrew assembly failed completely and the jackscrew separated from the acme nut holding it in place."

Ugh - do they replace these things on a regular schedule - even if they're not visibly worn? I wish they they would.

[quote]Those poor people in the area that witnessed it.

My friend lived on 33rd Street in North Park in San Diego, only a block away from where the PSA plane crashed. She was at work at the time of the crash, but her parents were at home. I didn't meet her until 10 years after the crash, but at one point she suggested to me that I should never mention the crash to her parents, as they did not want to talk about it. However they still continued to live in their house quite a long time after that. Finally they sold the house aroud 2005, I think, and moved to a ranch in Ramona. My friend moved got married and moved and then became part of the Tea Party movement, and now is a vocal Trump supporter, so we don't speak at all any more, after being friends for 25 years.

R23, My recollection is that Stephen was travelling alone. That's why he was given the five dollars.

Stephen Baltz absolutely was travelling alone. He was meeting relatives for Christmas.

Not sure if R133 is referring to a specific crash, but they're correct in that in an emergency, you need to be alert and aware. Getting drunk in the airport bar beforehand isn't conductive to that.

The majority of the victims of British Airtours 28M died of smoke inhalation and not burns. It did lead to several changes that we see today: exit rows having more room, flight attendants explaining to the passengers in those rows how the overwing exits work (hard to believe that before, it wasn't standard practice to explain this) and ensuring that passengers in the exit rows are able-bodied.

[quote] Getting drunk in the airport bar beforehand isn't conductive to that.

You bet. It’s not even conducive to it.

Whoops - thanks for the correction.

Eh, I luv ya, r157/r159. I was just funnin ya.

Why fly at all?

R161 = John Madden

If I read the Air France 447 wiki page correctly, there was a point when the plane was nose up, but stalled and thus falling/descending. Like the difference between someone plunging feet first, rather than head first.

I don’t think that made a difference in the long run.

This thread is why I always fly in smaller aircraft. Its simple physics-they are lighter so they are more likely to remain airborn and, if they crash, they are more likely to bounce due to their light weight.

I've never heard of that Tenerife disaster, but wow, two 747 colliding on the runway on a small island airport. (And did Americans really fly to the Canary Islands in the 70s to vacation? That is a 14 hours flight and Hawaii and Mexico are a lot closer. Brits love the Canary islands, but I've never heard of any Americans going there). Reading the course of events and the cockpit transcripts is just shocking. The guys in the tower were watching a football game, the KLM captain ignored warnings and just took off while the Pan Am captain and crew knew something was fishy and wanted to get the hell out of there (but also missed their exit). When he saw the KLM he was like "Damn, the son of a bitch is coming". Mistakes were made on all sides though. But interestingly, the PanAm captain and crew all survived this accident.

All of these crashes happened before I was born and I'm amazed how lax airport security and rules were back then. No ground radar, people just took a loaded weapon on a flight and enter the cockpit, no communication standards and pilots really still flew their planes instead of a computer.

I almost drowned as a kid (Belmar, NJ) and I can assure you, nothing haunts my mind like the thought of dying in a plane crash or imagining the horror inside the jets before their impact on 9/11.

[quote]if they crash, they are more likely to bounce due to their light weight.

Dafuq, you think they’re made of nerf?

Re: R154 and Alaska 261.

The jackscrew was meant to be inspected later in 2000, but time ran out on it, and the plane, before the inspection could take place. In its previous inspection in September 1997, it was recommended that the jackscrew be replaced, but the mechanic who advised this was overruled by his supervisor. That same mechanic ended up reporting Alaska to the FAA a year later (about a year before the crash), causing him to lose his job and be blackballed from the industry. It was revealed that the maintenance procedures for lubricating the jackscrew assembly were inadequate, and the intervals between regular maintenance increasingly lengthened.

Years ago I met someone in Seattle who knew people who died on flight 261. I believe it was because his ex was a flight attendant. There were many off-duty Alaska/Horizon employees on the plane.

[quote] This thread is why I always fly in smaller aircraft. Its simple physics-they are lighter so they are more likely to remain airborn and, if they crash, they are more likely to bounce due to their light weight.

That's what I used to think.

Shoot down of Malaysian airline over Ukraine.

Blood on Putin's hands.

The plane that crashed into the swamps outside Miami is horrifying to me because they never recovered it, it sunk into the mud. Who knows how long those people were alive, encased in the dark mud? Did they drown? Also, that aforementioned crash off Long Island - the first-class/cockpit section broke off and fell, but the rest of the plane kept flying.

But air travel is still safer than traveling by car; statistics show that globally 3,200+ people die everyday in car accidents.

The ValuJet plane that crashed into the Everglades nosedived into the swamp at over 500 mph. No one can survive that kind of impact.

Now, the Eastern TriStar that crashed into the Everglades 24 years before did have a few victims that drowned in the swamp water.

Valujet was horrific because there was a fire on board. I do not know if the fire raged long enough for those poor folks to die of smoke inhalation, but I presume they did.

I think the pilot and co pilot even passed out due to smoke as well... That crash was beyond..

The scariest thing about 9/11 were how the passengers felt on those planes due to the rapid descent- There was a video on Youtube that shows that 2nd plane coming in from such a different camera angle than was ever shown- When you see how quickly that plane dropped so it could hit that building- horrifying for those people.. And as it came in and those people on the left side of the plane saw the twin towers and the one that was already on fire? Wow.

That Nationair-operated, Nigerian Airways charter flight 2120 returning pilgrims from Mecca to Nigeria. There was no nitrogen to top up the landing gear tire at the airport, so they used air. The tires overheated and, after being retracted following take off, set fire to the cargo hold. Eventually the whole passenger cabin caught fire and the plane crashed while attempting an emergency landing.

christ R175- I forgot about that one. Bodies/seats were falling out of the plane as the floor burned out. Another horrific one.

And the airline flew SHITBOXES, and after this crash the scumbags declared bankruptcy. They were murderers.

The audio in R150 is hilarious, if only for the JFK controllers. One time I heard the same guy who was in the first part of that clip get frustrated with an Uzbekistan Air crew clearly lost and just driving around the airport. To make it worse they weren’t responding to him fast enough for his liking. After a couple attempts to make contact he finally just shouted, exasperatedly, “Hey Uzbek! Where the fuck ya goin’!?”

Take it from someone who deals with all that... that was nowhere near the levels of chaos possible. Most of those examples are controllers and pilots just getting pissy with one another.

Oh man, Nationair. I found this website after watching the Mayday episode about Nigerian 2120. The airline was clearly a hot mess, flying DC-8s (ANCIENT by the early 90s) and dilapidated 747s, and not willing the spend the money to maintain them. A recipe for disaster.

The Valujet passenger cabin was completely engulfed in flames by the time of the crash. The passengers screams can be heard on the CVR (black box) recording. The crash, vertically straignt down at over 500 mph, probably put a lot of people out of their misery. Only small body parts and fragments were recovered

One of the mechanics who was indicted in the ValuJet 592 crash fled and is still at large.

ValuJet acquired AirTran but assumed that name for obvious reasons. Then AirTran/ValuJet was acquired by Southwest. Fabulous.

[quote]TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996 over Long Island.

Jazz saxophonist Wayne Shorter’s wife, Ana Maria, was on this flight. Ana was friends with Tina Turner and was one of the people Tina stayed with after she left Ike.

Ana also knew Joni Mitchell (Wayne played on several of Joni’s albums) and Joni mentions her in the lyrics to the song “Taming the Tiger,” released in 1998:

I watched the stars chuck down their spears

And a plane went blinking by

And I thought of Ana

Wild and dear

Like fireworks in the sky

Fireworks in the sky

Ana and her niece were both on the flight. Her niece had just graduated from high school and Ana was taking her to Italy as a graduation present. 😞

R178 I saw that one where the African hijackers forced the east African pilot to go to Australia. The pilot told them they didn't have enough fuel but the hijackers said they read the plane could hold eight hours of fuel. The pilot flew to an island on the way, told the passengers to prepare for a water landing.

The idiot hijackers pushed so many buttons and caused the crash. Many passengers, including the pilot, survived

Because of that mentally ill German pilot, there must always be two pilots in the cockpit at all times.

R171, Shoot down of Iran Air Airbus, killing 290 people.

Blood on Reagan's hands.

[quote] Like Tenerife was due to a diversion because of terrorism at another airport, air traffic control watching a game, impatience on the pilots part, and a lack of clear communication.

[quote] The guys in the tower were watching a football game, the KLM captain ignored warnings and just took off while the Pan Am captain and crew knew something was fishy and wanted to get the hell out of there (but also missed their exit). When he saw the KLM he was like "Damn, the son of a bitch is coming". Mistakes were made on all sides though.

Once again, you fools forget about me. My role in this perfect storm was crucial.

It’s not nice to forget about Mother Nature!

R166 What age are you?

The account of Air France 447 crash is chilling. The stall; the multiple opportunities to get things straight. Bonin continually ascending instead of descending - out of confusion, panic. The poor communication between the pilots. At least the passengers didn't have a fire before they were killed on impact.

That airport in the Caribbean where the runway is like a few feet from the ocean is chilling. I can't believe they haven't had a major crash there.

R189 Thats why I always panic when flying into Reagan national airport in DC.

An emergency water landing is better than an emergency/ failed concrete landing.

Video of Ethiopian 961

Stevens Flight 23. Those passengers really had a rough go at it.

[quote] That airport in the Caribbean where the runway is like a few feet from the ocean is chilling

You mean the Princess Juliana International Airport in St. Marteen on the Dutch side of the island? Aside from great restaurants, drugs, and beaches, it’s one of their main attractions.

It sounds like the passengers on Air France 447 had NO idea what was coming due to how the plane slowly descended-

(From what I read anyway)

The cockpit sounded like pure hell, but on the CVR I never recall even the passengers being told to put on life jackets or warned in any way....

The thing basically landed like a pancake in the ocean-

Many people on AF447 might have been asleep and totally unaware of the descent. But what if you were awake and looking at the map thing on your tv screen? You might have seen the altitude rapidly decreasing. At least it was dark, so there was no way of seeing the ocean getting closer.

Who called the sleeping captain though? I thought he rushed back to the cockpit because the plane was clearly in trouble.

No, he was summoned back.

I thought this was a good read:

R151, When I swore never to board a DC-10.

R191, Not really. Not from a jet's cruising altitude.

Not even for a small plane.

That's why Sully had a "miracle."*

R178, The 747 was a quite reliable workhorse of the sky. I flew on some 25 year old ones, and felt safe as pie.

These threads are always fascinating too me and so disturbing. They don't make me any less willing to fly, but like someone said upthread, it's really amazing that flight can even happen - the less I think everything that goes into making a plane able to complete a flight safely, the better.

I just put my faith in statistics and go forward knowing that the chance of me dying in a crash are incredibly slim.

As for the oft repeated line that "driving is more dangerous" or "there's a much better chance you'd die in a car crash" - I always roll my eyes. Of course I know that's true. But it misses the point. It's really not death that scares me about plane crashes - I do any number of things every day that could result in death. It's the sheer terror of seeing a mountain approaching or burning in an inescapable cabin or some other awful scenario leading up to dying.

I grew up in Illinois and every Sunday we'd get the Chicago Tribune. I still remember this photo of American Airlines Flight 191 ( the deadliest aviation accident to have occurred in the United States) on the front page.

R198 Wow, those co-pilots really crashed that plane. He was pulling back that joystick all this time and didn't even mention it or ask for advice. But why did the other pilot do exactly the same when he finally got control? He could have still saved the plane at this time. The captain should have kicked one of them out of their seat the second he arrived and take control. They were also literally falling from the sky, I doubt any passengers were still asleep and didn't notice this rapid descend.

Co-Pilots last words as he realizes they would die "We're crashing, I can't believe this is happening"

Poor family of that co-pilot first lost their son and when they found the black box, had to accept he crashed the plane and killed everyone.

Aer Lingus Flight 712, the St. Felim, crashed en route from Cork to London.

Metal fatigue may have been the cause, but there were claims that the British accidentally shot the aircraft down as they had firing exercises that day, and a British Nava ship recovered parts f the aircraft which then mysteriously disappeared.

R201 I flew on a WAMOS airline 23 year old 747 (with the 529 seat configuration) 2 months ago and it was a decrepit.

Glad it was only half full and a 6 hour flight.

Don't forget the runway on St. Barth's, not only one of the shortest in commercial aviation and difficult to manage, but a stone's throw from sun-bathing tourists.

R204, search Air France 447 on youtube - lots of videos and recreations. No way any passenger was sleeping as someone upthread suggested. It was falling like a rock and rolling side to side as fell; and there was large G forces. Just awful.

[R201], the key word is "well maintained".

An aircraft can fly for a very long time as long as you're willing to spend the money on repairs. As it ages, it becomes increasingly more expensive to maintain and operate. Several 747s that the company [R178] mentioned had come from Wardair, a company that babied them. They almost immediately started to deteriorate while operating under their new owners, which has a very poor reputation in aviation, but they are hardly unique there.

R204 It seems hard to fly a plane. In the sky you're supposed to consult a manual and go through a checklist.

There was one plane that crashed over NYC after 9/11. IIRC it was because a piece of the tail came off after the pilot harshly wiggled itt from side to side to get it to respond properly. Life hitting a malfunctioning computer. Unfortunately it blew the whole tail piece off rendering the plane uncontrollable. It's hard to know what to do in those life threatening situations but it's Paramount to keep a cool, detached head and remember the training and follow procedure.

The pilot for Quantas saved the plane that was trying to stall by releasing control of it so it would correct. He had military training.

You're talking about AA Flight 587, r210. The NTSB ruled that the first officer overused the rudder because the plane was caught in strong turbulence from a plane flying the same course directly in front of it. The wreckage fell in part into Queens Bay and partly into the town of Belle Harbor in front of hundreds of witnesses. All 260 on the plane died and 5 on the ground. Plus 2 dogs. It's the second deadliest crash in US history, after the 1979 O'Hare crash mentioned above.

Despite the NTSB findings, rumors of terrorism still circulate locally.

[quote] and felt safe as pie.

How safe is pie, really?

Especially around here.

[quote] These threads are always fascinating too me

Oh, dear!

[quote] He was pulling back that joystick all this time and didn't even mention it or ask for advice. But why did the other pilot do exactly the same when he finally got control?

Is this the one where the gauges indicated they were descending but were really ascending? That would explain them pulling up if they were relying on their instruments.

There's a condition where pilots fly over the ocean for a long time and become confused and fly right into the ocean, thinking they're flying correctly.

I don't know what causes that. Is the sky and ocean both being blue? Some optical illusion?

It’s called spatial disorientation, r215.

I know all about it.

It's called spatial disorientation and they are taught to rely on instruments.

But are there safer times to fly like during the day as opposed to night? How could you be confused if you looked outside and the sun burned your eyes? The reflection off the water?

As a passenger I have never felt spatial disorientation, especially when sitting by a wing. Why not send a FO to run back real the fucking plane isn't upside down. Or how about stand up to get a sense of gravity.

"But are there safer times to fly like during the day as opposed to night?"

While I would have thought the easy answer was "day" - apparently they each have their benefits and drawbacks. Though for AF447 - the crash probably wouldn't have happened during the day - as the confusion about ascending or descending would have been apparent by looking out the window. There were in pitch black over the ocean. Also, diverting around the storm would have been easier.

Another terrifying place to land is San Diego. The flight path literally has the planes flying Between downtown high rise office buildings. By the time the plane is about to land it passes over a four storey parking structure with clearance of appx. 20 ft., crosses over PCH 4 blocks from downtown and touches down 30 ft from the road just in front of a hurricane fence. Kids get drunk/high and lay down by the fence to watch the planes land over them. My family was in the airline industry and my father told me this was the only US airport where the flight crew stopped gossiping and deciding where to have dinner and just held onto the controls with a death grip.

Jesus, r220, my heart was in my throat just reading that.

I don’t think I want to experience it.

I wonder how many pilots and flight attendants have sex in flight.

Or if the sex has ever downed a plane.

Not the sex itself, but I do remember seeing an episode where one of these commuter planes went down while the pilot was not in the cockpit hitting on a flight attendant. He was bragging to the copilot and when the plane was in trouble, by the time he got back to the cockpit it was too late to save it.

Let me clarify:

He was not in the cockpit and was hitting on a flight attendant in another part of the plane.

If you're thinking of the American Eagle Roselawn crash, the pilot was definitely back in the cockpit *before* the plane pitched over and crashed.

It was the first day on the job for one of the flight attendants.

That may be it, r226. Yes, I didn’t say he wasn’t in the cockpit when it crashed. I said by the time he got back in the cockpit it was too late to save the plane.

You stated that the plane was in trouble when he wasn't in the cockpit. That's not correct. Both pilots were in their seats when the plane pitched over. The CVR clearly revealed this.

Ah, ok, r228. My bad.

I must’ve not remembered. I vaguely remember the episode.

Someone's not playing around with plane crash facts! That's good though. If they're a pilot something you want that matter of fact attitude.

The stupidest one was the Russian one that went down because a child was in the cockpit and was allowed to play with the controls.

At any rate, whether or not the captain was in the cockpit at the time isn't all that relevant - it was found that the de-icing boots on the ATR were inadequate to deal with the icing conditions the plane ran into, which led to the uncommanded aileron deflection and the plane rolling over.

American Eagle stopped flying ATRs in northern routes after the crash, but there have been ATR icing crashes since then, including this one in Cuba 10 years ago. Harrowing final minute of the CVR.

[R23] here: I was wrong in some of my recollections about young Stephen Baltz, the short-lived survivor of that air collision in 1960. My main error was the date. I recalled this as happening before Thanksgiving, and it was actually a few weeks later, on Dec. 16.

I also had forgotten he’d been traveling alone, making him the only member of his family who died. And, of course, the correct spelling of his name.

I was correct about the look of him. We forget nowadays that back then newspapers and magazines had no qualms about frequently showing grisly photos of victims, often on the front pages. Murders, suicides, accidents were all shown in detail. One news weekly, the National Inquirer, even specialized in this. (I remember a guy at prep school who subscribed to it, just because it was so disgusting.)

You don’t see images like that now. All wiped away.

(As if all those deaths, like the jumpers on 9/11, never existed. Crazy.)

My parents and I were ticketed passengers on PSA 182 for that infamous day. I was in high school, and decided to fly home a day early so as not to miss another day of school. I will never forget the principal coming to my classroom that morning to "speak with me in his office." He was breaking news of the crash when his secretary burst in saying, "His mom is on the phone and wants to speak with him!" Thank god, they had decided to stay an extra day!

As fate would have it, three years later my parents were in a plane crash -A small military plane. No casualties, other than a field in a Christmas tree farm.

[quote] I was in high school, and decided to fly home a day early so as not to miss another day of school.

Nerd.

[quote]As fate would have it, three years later my parents were in a plane crash -A small military plane. No casualties, other than a field in a Christmas tree farm.

Good lord, someone had it in for your parents! What’s the chances of this?!

R232, I used to work flights back and forth between the UK & North America. On the day after the Lockerbie crash, we started distributing newspapers until I noticed the glossy insert had photos of the Lockerbie crash and the "imprints" (craters) left by bodies falling from several miles up.

I did an "all call" (paging everyone to their station phones) "discontinue newpapers and bring as much back as you can get ASAP". We didn't get them all but I'm surprised that no one complained. It was pretty gruesome. Still, I wish I'd kept one.

I was a proud nerd, [R234]! Graduated top of the class!

The odds are truly spectacular, but I consider the numbers this way: I am crash-proof, because the odds just couldn't be stretched any further. Whenever I'm seated next to a nervous flyer, I share my tale. Sometimes it helps -Sometimes they request a different seat. ; )

R37, the 14th street bridge is named after someone?

Did anyone mention the Aeroflot flight where the pilot let his adolescent son fly the plane into the ground?

Yes, r238, Read the thread. Although few details were given.

Correct, R237.

CVR and animation video of the Aeroflot Airbus crash.

The kid did get out of the pilot's seat, but the pilots weren't able to recover and regain control the plane before it hit the ground.

After watching some of these vids r212, I feel as safe as DL pie. Yikes.

When the Aeroflot plane went into its fist nosedive, several seconds was lost because the g-force pinned the other pilots in their seats. They had to yell out instructions to the kid to bring it out. Of course, by the time he did it was too late.

That was probably the dumbest plane crash. Having him play around with the yoke was bad enough, but autopilot or no autopilot, somebody should've been monitoring him as soon as he sat down. They didn't even know the plane was banking until the kid mentioned it.

Looks like that plane at R241 did somersaults several times. I can only imagine what the passengers were going through, having no idea a child was flying the plane. They must have thought it was a mechanical failure. I hope.

And the pilots themselves seemed badly trained, they should have been able to recover. They seemed to have no idea what to do.

I saw a video earlier today of Sully Sullenberger landing his plane in the Hudson. I can’t imagine what a professional pilot like him must think of that. They must discuss these crashes in pilot school and at the airlines when they happen.

Allowing kids in the cockpit should never happen again. Even if it is thier birthday!

[quote] the 14th street bridge is named after someone?

Of course. You didn’t know that?

It’s named after Jimmy the XIV.

The suicidal plane thief was very sad. Some Air Force pilots following him we're very impressed at his ability to do rolls in such a clunky plane.

He sounds like Chris Pratt.

Harrison Ford can't fucking fly.

R245 that is in horrible taste! who spent time and money making that? heinous.

r141 re: the Helderberg.

The reason for the fire was that it was carrying weapons components that ignited. They likely came from the Israelis, who traded weapons (and also gave SA the bomb) in defiance of the international embargo. The cargo may/may not have been American-made.

During the investigation, the black boxes were taken to the US, ostensibly to be read by either the Feds or the manufacturer, but they were destroyed. All this according to a now defunct website that had very senior aviation industry personnel posting on it.

Read the PPrune threads on all of these individual crashes if you want to deep dive.

Wtf a PPrune?

Something I do every morning, hun.

PPrune

[quote] Wtf a PPrune?

[quote]Something I do every morning, hun.

Does your PPubic hair grow that quickly?

Professional Pilots Rumour Network

For the picayune and/or anal DLers

I was fondling my prunes, but you can't find anything on the site about crashes- Its way to much stuff to go through

[quote] I was fondling my prunes,

You kids and your euphemisms.

I remember the PSA crash in San Diego. I was in elementary school at the time about 20 blocks away from the crash. I didn't see the collision, but I definitely heard the boom of the explosion as the plane hit the ground. I will never forget it. My mom also knew one of the flight attendants who was on board. I remember my grandmother saying that body parts were found many blocks away from crash, in the trees, on rooftops and on properties of people who she knew. As I was so young, she didn't give too many details but I knew it was bad. I am fortunate to be able to travel often. I ALWAYS think about this crash whenever I fly. ALWAYS.

Your posted reminded me of UAL Flt 232 in Sioux City in 1989.

There’s video of it.

Opera great mezzo Marilyn Horne's brother Ric was on the PSA flight.

So was actress Claire Trevor’s son R261.

The one that affected my childhood (as so many others here are also prone to posting childhood crash traumas) was the Dominicana Airlines crash in 1970 off the coast of the Dominican Republic, en route to Puerto Rico. I’m a fan of all the Airline Crash Investigation shows, and this one has not been covered by any. Probably because the plane took off and crashed almost immediately into the Caribbean Sea, killing all on board, due to mechanical failure. Opened and shit case, nothing to see here, thanks for asking.

But there were a lot of accomplished people on board, including boxing champion Teo Cruz, a well known local model and hostess (think PR Vanna White), and the entire victorious Puerto Rican Women’s Volleyball team, save for their captain who had to fly back one day earlier to help set up their awards ceremony. The ceremony went on and there’s a powerful griping image of her sitting all alone in the midst of a dozen empty seats.

If I find it I’ll post it.

On the camp side, my favorite Air Crash Investigation (Mayday/NG) dramatization is that if an American Airlines DC-10 in 1972 that blew a hole in the fuselage floor mid-flight (one of the earlier DC-10 defective cargo door mishaps and part of the Turkish Airlines episode). This was still during the days of hats, heels, scarves and white gloves on all stewardesses, and the glamorous black Head Stewardess had to perform a life or death rescue of her gorgeous blonde colleague while both were fully decked on all that drag. It was straight out of Airport or a bad episode of Charlie’s Angels, what with the stepping over the gaping hole in three inch pumps.

Another campy thing about those documentary series is they reuse stock acted footage of crashing passengers - my favorite is the screaming lady mouth.

Hawaii plane crash caught on tape.

Surprisingly calm (perhaps because it was a small plane with few passengers). And no, Robin, the plane was not ”spiraling down.”

Oops

My absolute worse fear is getting ejected out of a plane while still alive. This is why UA flight 811 is so frightening for me.

United Airlines Flight 811 was a regularly scheduled airline flight from Los Angeles to Sydney, with intermediate stops at Honolulu and Auckland. On February 24, 1989, the Boeing 747–122 serving the flight experienced a cargo door failure in flight shortly after leaving Honolulu. The resulting explosive decompression blew out several rows of seats, resulting in the deaths of nine passengers. The aircraft returned to Honolulu, where it landed safely.....Despite extensive air and sea searches, no remains were found at sea of the nine victims lost in flight. Multiple small body fragments and pieces of clothing were found in the Number 3 engine, indicating that at least one victim ejected from the fuselage was ingested by the engine, but it was not known whether the fragments were from one or more victims.

[quote] My absolute worse fear is getting ejected out of a plane while still alive.

Mine is getting to a point in life where I don’t know the difference between worse and worst.

Sorry about that. I know the difference but posted too quickly.

[quote] Multiple small body fragments and pieces of clothing were found in the Number 3 engine,

Great!! Good news! At least we have closure.

All in good fun, r268!

English is not my first language

And this quote from Amy Sweeney, a flight attendant on American Airlines Flight 11 during the September 11 attacks.

"I see water. I see buildings. I see buildings! We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low. Oh my God we are flying way too low. Oh my God!" (Flight 11 crashes). Sweeney's last words on the inflight call with American Airlines manager Michael Woodward.

[quote]On the camp side, my favorite Air Crash Investigation (Mayday/NG) dramatization is that if an American Airlines DC-10 in 1972 that blew a hole in the fuselage floor mid-flight (one of the earlier DC-10 defective cargo door mishaps and part of the Turkish Airlines episode). This was still during the days of hats, heels, scarves and white gloves on all stewardesses, and the glamorous black Head Stewardess had to perform a life or death rescue of her gorgeous blonde colleague while both were fully decked on all that drag. It was straight out of Airport or a bad episode of Charlie’s Angels, what with the stepping over the gaping hole in three inch pumps.

Ha! I remember loving that too when I first watched that Mayday episode. I guess that still was pretty standard attire for flight attendants. Watch any documentary about Pan Am and there will be a few minutes dedicated on how rigorous the standards were for recruiting FAs and about their uniforms. PSA was also known for their attractive FAs in brightly colored uniforms.

Back then they would tell passengers to remove their shoes in preparation for an emergency landing, so that they didn't puncture the escape slides (especially high heels). Therefore, survivors in some crashes had to walk barefoot through debris. One example was the Southern DC-9 crash in New Hope, Georgia. Nowadays, does anyone wear heels when boarding an airplane?

Well, if the flight is on the weekend, I do.

I just rewatched a Breaking Bad episode and Walt just mentioned the Tenerife accident there. Also the air traffic controller who caused the crash on BB surprisingly wasnt even in jail. He died of a self inflicted gun shot wound in a later episode. Did the ATC who watched the football game during the Tenerife crash also not face any consequences?

The cocky, arrogant KLM captain (who was the face of all KLM ads back then) took the brunt of the blame r275, when he misinterpreted “hold for takeoff” instructions for “you may takeoff” or something like that He was in a hurry to get home and the fog had begun to set in. This was before the days of CRM, a flight management procedure that allows any crew member to challenge a decision by a superior. So no one dared question KLM’s handsome senior star pilot.

The Pan Am guys we’re lost taxiing at the small airport, again, because they kept getting instructions to turn on the third inlet and they saw the fourth as the third (fog!).

The ATC’s instructions were correct so, regardless of estreno is circumstances, that saved their asses (also a blip resulting from back and forth walkie-talkie type of communications erased the words “hold for ...” from the ATCs transmission).

[quote] Back then they would tell passengers to remove their shoes in preparation for an emergency landing, so that they didn't puncture the escape slides (especially high heels).

Here you go r273.

Oh crap

[quote]Back then they would tell passengers to remove their shoes in preparation for an emergency landing, so that they didn't puncture the escape slides (especially high heels).

Here you go r273

Or ...

No glasses?

How I’m gonna see the big yellow slide? I may miss it!

Road hog!!

Oh and the automation - it's what foiled Boeing. You see Boeing used to be a company run by engineers. Now it's run by finance types. And the MCAS debacle is part of it.

The MOST chilling thing I ever heard was that office worker stuck in one of the World Trade Center towers on September 11 , 2001. He was talking to the 911 operator as the building collapsed. He screamed OH GOD! - then you heard a crumbling sound.

R283- Kevin Cosgrove. That was supremely disturbing... And that recording of Melissa Doi telling the operator, I'm going to die, aren't I?

There was a doc made about people who survived plane crashes. Sole Survivor.

Speaking of sole survivors, I just had this documentary about the 1987 Northwest 255 crash in Detroit recommended to me on YouTube. It was released the year after the crash.

It contains something pretty harrowing that I've never heard before: a call between a paramedic in the ambulance that contained the sole survivor, and another paramedic at the hospital while they were en route there. The little girl's cries of pain are so difficult to hear, but the silver lining is that the fact that she was screaming meant that she was *alive*. As the paramedic said on the call, "this is the only survivor out of about 50 patients we've found so far".

Her aunt and uncle raised her R286 and she sounded pretty well adjusted and I think her aunt and uncle released only one photo of her which was when she was recovering but otherwise refused all requests for interviews and photos of her over the years.

Same as this crash in 2010, where the sole survivor was a young Dutch boy returning from a trip to South Africa with his family. He was then raised by an aunt and uncle. He would be 19 now.

[quote] but the case to me that is most horrific would be Malaysian Airlines 370 that disappeared.

Not nearly as horrific as Don Lemon's coverage

I'm reading this thread, and I live within one mile of the crash site in Cerritos. That's when two planes collided. Everyone was decapitated on the smaller plane, and of course, both planes crashed into a residential area. Eerie as fuck.

[quote]I always wonder what those final moments before impact are like for the passengers, while the plane is falling from the sky. Or on board one of the 9-11 jets as they flew low over NYC before hitting the towers. They all know they’re about to die but it takes several minutes before it happens.

There was a girl on one of these singing shows, who was one of two survivors. She was coming back to Nigeria from boarding school. She was with her best friend, who was sitting across from her. When they knew the plane was going down, they held hands.

The crash happened.

The girl said that was the last time she saw her friend. The girl required multiple surgeries over the years.

I thought this crash was the precursor to 911. It was the Egyptian Flight in which the co-pilot deliberately crashed the plane. Years later, there is still debate on how this plane went down. US says one; thing Egypt says another.

The poor passengers had to endure a nose dive, the plane sharply rising, the electricity going out to pitch dark, and then back to a nosedive.

Although it was not a commercial airline, but the Brazilian plane crash that killed all members of a band in 1996. Truly horrifying pics of the victims were posted on the internet.

It only reinforces what I said. The only things that drop aircraft from the skies are intentional acts by humans, bombs, and fucked up avionics.

R289, none of those videos in your link are available anymore.

Plus there's the book "And I Alone Survived" by Lauren Elder (which is a good read) and the inevitable TV movie of the same title.

[quote] It only reinforces what I said. The only things that drop aircraft from the skies are intentional acts by humans, bombs, and fucked up avionics.

And again I’m ignored!

It’s not nice to ignore Mother Nature! We’re clearly living the consequences right now!

R171, Kind of like when we (the U.S.) shot down an Iranian passenger plane.

Then claimed the de-clothed bodies in the sea were "planted."

The one over Lockerbie was terrible.

I think dying from the effects of nuclear radiation would PROBABLY be worse than dying in an airplane crash.

We all have to go sooner or later. Dying in a plane I'm sure is not a preferable way to go, but we can at least take solace in the fact that those who perish in a plane crash are whisked immediately into heaven to be with the Lord.

With every plane crash, someone always has a story about how they were almost on that flight.

But I've always been fascinated by this man's story. He was booked on the Pan Am flight that crashed in Lockerbie, and he really did just miss it by the skin of his teeth because he was having a drink and lost track of time. This article recounts how he sprinted to the gate but the flight had just closed. He could see the 747 slowly pulling out of the gate. A couple of hours later he found out how close he had come to death (and he briefly became a suspect).

R178, yes, that one was horrible.

Passengers fell from the burning aircraft over 10 miles away from the eventual crash site. When they dropped the gear in preparation for landing, the structure gave way, seats with passengers still strapped in, luggage etc fell out through the bottom.

It also pretty much sealed everyone elses' fate because the onrush of air and weakening of the structural integrity meant that one of the wings gave way shortly before the attempted landing.

Crazy that someone bumped this after a year and I am about to type the same crash as R304!

Agreed- that one was tortuous due to the fire and then the floor giving way. Just the worst.

In terms of the passengers fear and suffering-

Alaska Air from 2000. When the head of air safety at the time, tears up just talking about it- you probably know that cabin was hell...

Swiss Air 111- Just the idea of the dark of night, a fire in the cockpit and the sheer force of that crash. It took me awhile to "get" why that crash was so catastrophic as it didn't crash from some major elevation . It's because the plane was at full power and crashed at 400+ mph.

And definitely USAir Flight 427 and that American Eagle crash from 1994. Both were a good 30 seconds of dropping out of the sky.

And by the way- the pilots from the Alaska Air crash are heroes.

Truly exemplary pilots who had grace, dignity, and tenacity. Listen to the CVR's. These guys were amazing. RIP.

Bump.

Or should it be, "Crash!"

I haven't read through all these because it's traumatic for me. When i was 19-21, I had a constant nightmare about a huge airliner crash on a runway, over and over. At that time, I lived with my Navy husband under a San Diego flight path and every time i heard a jet, it made me cower and freak out. And I had been on long haul flights before as a kid (Hawaii to NY). No crashes ever happened at our area, but it scared me from flying for many years.

When i finally started to research it (via the internet and before such videos were available) years later (because it kept haunting me) i found it most matched a horrible crash that ended in a landing that cartwheeled on the runway and i found that right around that same time, the Sioux City, IA Flight 232 crash landed and killed 110+ lives. It took me many years to get over my fear of flying. I don't know if my recurrent dreams of a flight that matched that crashed were to do with it or something else. But when i saw the video from the crash landing, it very much matched my nightmares (before the crash had even occurred or seen videos).

To this day, I say a prayer at takeoff and landing to make sure everyone arrives safely. But it doesn't freak me out as much any more because I love to travel. I can't say that 21 years ago or so; i would have definitely avoided it if at all possible.

R308. Your story speaks to me. Travel often but am very afraid of heights. Watched many shows about airline crashes and know that the biggest danger is with take-offs and landings. But my absolute fear is falling in the sky with nothing to save you. Very close to the PSA crash in San Diego as a kid. People fell from the sky and it was not pretty. My grandma's neighborhood. In tree's. On top of houses. My mom lost colleagues in this flight. We heard and felt the explosion at school. School dismissed. And life would never be the same again with respect to flights.

What about you?