California, Washington and Oregon announce "Western States Pact"

CaliBucks

[quote] Gavin Newsom, Kate Brown, Jay Inslee

I like all three of them. Smart, competent people and actual leaders.

rubles

The COW.

COW pies

Let's hope this is the first of several stepping stones to breaking off as their own country. Come on, you can do it!

The Waco

Newsom wants a civil war.

Why is Hawaii excluded?

any blue state can join, r9.

And this on the same day the NE governors all join together and ignore Trump. He might just have to haul out the nukes.

Wow, this is pretty amazing. Meanwhile eastern Oregon wants to break away from Oregon and join Idaho. Maybe it's time to buy stock in Rand McNally.

This is like The Hunger Games, and the evil capitol city is whereever Trump is. Which district should COW belong to?

Currency would be called a “gavin.”

[quote] Meanwhile eastern Oregon

Isn't eastern Oregon's population like 50,000?

I welcome Emperor Gavin.

Love it.

Can we join?

They need to get Nevada in on this pact too. If Las Vegas reopens before California does, then we (Californians) could be fucked. Nevada has a Democratic governor, so hopefully he will follow suit.

Where do I submit my application for a work visa??

I live in Los Angeles and YAY for this.

The states have basically had to decide their own path as there is no unified approach from our great leader. I can't wait until Joe takes the presidency and Don will have to take the walk of shame out of the white house (literally)!

Six northeastern states also doing this, but without a catchy name. We need a catchy name. Cuomo can be our President.

what is r7 referring to?

R15 yes, it's somewhere around that. The biggest city on the eastern side of the state is La Grande, a college town that is roughly 13,000+. I was born and raised in Portland, and there has always been a lot of animosity from the eastern side of the state against the west over political differences, hence the recent petition for them to secede and become part of Idaho. It's all quite ridiculous. My dad was born and raised in Los Angeles, but moved with his family just outside of La Grande when he was a teenager, to my grandmother's home town. Long story short, he couldn't get out of there fast enough.

The people are admittedly friendly and there are a few progressives and hippies scattered around, but there are far more libertarian types and many Trumpers. The country is absolutely beautiful, though—much different than the western side of the state. Some parts of it remind me of Montana. The Blue Mountains and the Wallowa Mountains are stunning. Joseph is a beautiful little town on edge of Wallowa Lake. I do like La Grande, too, for what it's worth—it's not as hickish as the other small towns around it because there is a university there.

This will be entertaining, from a yank-the-wingnuts-chain perspective. The right-wing extremists have been screaming secession and talking about forming their own states for years. Washington Republican state politician Matt Shea has been plotting with fellow extremists to form a Christian theocracy called Liberty. They all think California is the Great Satan, and they hate the liberal parts of their own states. So this news is going to kick their antisocial, authoritarian, paranoid personalities into overdrive.

And at the same time, they're furious that their underpopulated, low-income, even-lower-tax-base parts of the country don't have anywhere near the level of services and infrastructure found in the blue cities. They're convinced they're paying the majority of the taxes that benefit the liberals/city dwellers (when it's actually the other way around), and thus, they should have the majority voice in both spending and decision making.

So this will drive them absolutely bonkers. I hope all three state governors have good personal security. They'll need it.

California is one thing, the other states's governors can't do anything.

Eastern Oregon wants to join Idaho, and far northern California wants to join Oregon.

R24, eastern Oregon doesn't sound too different from parts of east California. Beautiful, rustic country inhabited by Trumpish types, with a sprinkling of hippies.

Trolls often make the mistake of seeing those geographically large counties and saying stuff like, "See, most of California is red!" They don't take into account the tiny populations of those large, rural counties.

If they secede and go independent, I hope they won't look unkindly upon the surrender of my Green Card during the Trump admin, and do look favourably upon my 23 years in Washington State. Unlikely BC province will join them.

The “Loonie” is already taken in Canada.

The east coast did the same thing today (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware, and Pennsylvania).

Who did it first. East or West coast?

They should keep the Dollar. Deplorableland gets the "Trump"

The Zimbabwe dollar should be the new currency.

It will be worthless eventually, so why not start off right?

Jesus Christ it's like a key party out there.

r15, probably, it's mostly ranchers out there.

This is brilliant.

These three states hug the entire Pacific coast making them a lethal region as they can cut off the entire country from the Pacific. California's consolidation of power is just beginning folks.

I'm expecting Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah to fall in line in the next few days. If they know what's good for them...

Oh right Boris. They're not talking about COVID-19, they're talking about secession, con quest and controlling Pacific trade routes.

Westero!

This is great, it's a fantastic slap in trump's face. Who gives a fuck if Texas and the other deplorable states reopen, they are nothing without the economic engines on the coasts. Trump can re-open all he wants, it will mean fuck all.

I bet Nevada wasn't even asked to join, although it's become California's little brother.

They will use cryptocurrency

the Bezos

It's the gay republic we all dreamed about ! Yes !!!

All hot men to become gay, no exceptions! Fugly Rethuglicans and fraus to be kicked out of our country.

Man I love CA. I'm so happy I live here. I could a shit and would actually prefer if this stupid country would finally fraction off. Enough of these conservative hypocritical rednecks having any effect on us.

[quote]The Zimbabwe dollar should be the new currency. It will be worthless eventually, so why not start off right?

Maybe you're not aware that the Western states have some of the strongest economies in the country and (unlike so many Republican-governed states) aren't reliant on federal money to stay afloat? With an economy based on high tech products in global demand, unlike (say) Texas with its cheapo service-based economy?

You've heard of Amazon? Apple and Google? Nike? The film industry?

R34 LOL I really appreciate that reference

don't forget how they lead in homelessness!

Coasters.

R47 Don't be a jealous bitch.

Washington, Oregon, and California would have such a strong economy. Microsoft, Amazon, Apple...we could rule the world!

Except for Alaska r36, which also borders the Pacific. And also Hawaii, which is surrounded by the Pacific.

r51 Oh go ahead and throw in Guam while you're at it, why dontcha?

Well I didn’t want to come off as bitchy r52.

I'm all for this, and what's going on with the NE states, but all of our state's economies are far too integrated for any one to secede and survive. Let's be real, this is a move to circumvent Cheetolini's 'Kill 'em and steal their money" federal policy, and actually save human lives. You're all starting to sound like the gun-toting Texan separatists and those assholes that are always taking over national parks and Indian reservations bitching about land rights.

Anybody that thinks the Tech industry will stay in California if it was its own country is nuts. They play liberal when it's convenient, but they're all Peter Thiel on the inside. They would never support being reigned in and having their tax loopholes closed.

NY did the same with NJ, PA, CT, MA and RI.

[quote]Who did it first. East or West coast?

Cuomo has been hinting at it for days. He cited a need to band together with surrounding states as the reason why he stepped on de Blasio's announcement about schools a few days ago.

The Indica.

The West Coast group will be called something cool like Pacifica, while the Northeast group would be called something like the Northeastern Association of Autonomous States (NAAS).

People have been harping about doing this for decades, with the exception of Southern California.

[quote]Except for Alaska [R36], which also borders the Pacific. And also Hawaii, which is surrounded by the Pacific

Nobody thinks of Alaska as a gateway to the Pacific.

The most important ports in America are in the Western coastline, while Alaska in the North pole is in no danger of becoming a useful place of entree.

The West has spoken, and they guard the Pacific.

You queens better be ready to pick up a gun for the COW Republic, there's only one way to found a country.

I'd add Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado to the western states. CO and NM are solid blue states and AZ is growing bluer everyday.

R61 The most important ports are on the western coastline because that coastline is currently attached to a giant fucking country. If you think those ports will mean anything, you have no idea how supply chains work and the costs involved. Unless California lets companies trans ship with no cost (meaning no revenue), then companies will go around. The Egyptians will love everything coming through the Suez rather than Long Beach. Go ahead though, keep up with your masturbatory fantasy.

I'd like to add that most banks and corporations are based in Delaware. They aren't technically Californian, the world's 5th largest economy would evaporate overnight as it would have no source of revenue or even major domestic businesses.

It is unbelievable how ignorant of the American and global economy most people are.

R64, you are out of your depth, just stop embarrassing yourself.

Asia and the South Pacific are not going to enter through Texas or Florida. Logistically speaking it would be too difficult and expensive for America.

California is becoming the new face of the new Banking Business, let alone as is one of the premier banking markets in the world.

What shall we call the South? I got it! The Confederacy!

We should call the South Deploraville or Redneckland.

[quote]What should the new currency be called?

It can be a cryptocurrency. Westcoin.

R11 Some NE states have GOP governors... they are more like purple states than blue states.

[quote]California is becoming the new face of the new Banking Business, let alone as is one of the premier banking markets in the world.

Out of the top 100 banks, California is home to only 7, including WellsFargo.

In our quest for world supremacy, I wonder if we should do something about Idaho...I mean we could all use a second home in the Northwest and that darn state is just sitting there unused.

I say we annex it and turn their college age men into sex slaves.

Newsom should invade the Idaho panhandle and annex it. And then kick out all those racist LAPD cops who moved there.

R64 Goods manufactured west of the Malay Peninsula already travels through the Suez, then the Med., across the Atlantic, and then along the east coast. You're obviously the one out of your depth, you don't even understand the American Supply Chain as it currently stands. California's advantage is based upon its ties to the country as a whole. Do you think the shipments that enter through Long Beach/LA just stay in California? No, they get put on a train and shipped east.

I just get everything at Walmart.

[quote]Out of the top 100 banks, California is home to only 7, including WellsFargo.

Wells Fargo hasn't been HQed in CA for many years. Neither is BofA. All of the other big CA banks were merged and relocated out of existence.

Being Home to a bank also means nothing. It doesn't matter where they put their shiny buildings, it matters where they pay their tax bill. Any American that has been paying attention knows that our companies don't "exist" anywhere with high taxes.

I agree with you on BoA and didn't count them, r76, but nope on Wells Fargo..

About Wells Fargo Wells Fargo & Company (NYSE: WFC) is a diversified, community-based financial services company with $1.9 trillion in assets. Wells Fargo’s vision is to satisfy our customers’ financial needs and help them succeed financially. Founded in 1852 and headquartered in San Francisco, Wells Fargo provides banking, investment and mortgage products and services, as well as consumer and commercial finance, through 7,400 locations, more than 13,000 ATMs, the internet (wellsfargo.com) and mobile banking, and has offices in 32 countries and territories to support customers who conduct business in the global economy. With approximately 260,000 team members, Wells Fargo serves one in three households in the United States. Wells Fargo & Company was ranked No. 29 on Fortune’s 2019 rankings of America’s largest corporations.

r78 OK, my mistake. I thought when Norwest bought them out they moved the HQ to Minnesota.

Is someone suggesting that Asia will stop using the Pacific coastline just because? lol and that Banks will just leave the 5th largest economy in the world? Please stop. Don't do this to yourself.

As if Wells Fargo will just stop making businesses with California. Of course, they would commit financial suicide because Deplorables say so...

The Henny.

These States should collectively call themselves the Obama Coalition.

Trump would have an aneurysm on live television.

R80 Wow, you are a fucking idiot. You realize China is going to care a lot more about appeasing the 275million+ country to this non-entity's left, right? If for no other reason that it's a considerably large market. You understand that what makes it advantageous to use West Coast ports is that freight can move freely to the 275million+ country to the east, right? You put up a border or anything required for California to be truly independent, that all goes away. A Declaration of Independence would, at best, turn California into the vassal of the U.S. or another world power.

Also, in what world do you think California would be on good relations with the rest of the U.S. if it attempted to secede? Do you honestly think the US, in the event it didn't crush a revolution, wouldn't use its political and economic power to strong arm Mexico, Canada, and the EU in ignoring the fledgling state. Do you think those countries will abandon their largest trading and military partner for Newsom? lol.

It's laughable how stupid people are on datalounge. Economists doubt we can reverse globalization, but you fuckwits think California can leave the union! Give me a fucking break.

Stations and other local casinos have announced plans to reopen on May 1 with limited table games and a few restaurants. No word if and when poker will return. Wynn's also scheduled to reopen on May 1.

With only 110 deaths in the entire state, remarkable considering the huge number of retirement communities, and nurses and medical personnel facing mass layoffs, the huge numbers of unemployed are clamoring to go back to work. NV unemployment telephone lines are still overwhelmed and weeks behind processing claims.

Democrat Gov Sisolak is being criticized for allowing some construction crews to continue operating while small businesses suffer. There's even a recall petition for the governor.

California using it's ports as leverage to strike a deal with the U.S. When in the last 50yrs has anything besides a nuke been able to strong-arm the U.S. government.

I was disappointed Jay Inslee didn't catch on as one of the frontrunners for the Democratic primary. He had the very calm, authoritative presence of a real leader. Trump would have looked and felt emasculated standing next to him.

R80 Your entire theory requires California to exist in a world where the rest of the United States not only doesn't exist, but never has. If California were to split off, it would be economic suicide for any bank to choose the weaker country. The Federal government will always have a bigger stick.

Also, thanks for using deplorable, it proves your running out of actual talking points.

[quote]These three states hug the entire Pacific coast making them a lethal region as they can cut off the entire country from the Pacific.

No they couldn't, because it would be only some of the major cities seceding. All the land in between would stay with the U.S.

The idiot upthread believing that somehow it can offset the geographic and economic influence of the entire Pacific coastline needs to go back to school to learn economics and trade. Please, listen to yourself. It is California who is creating the jobs for America, who is bringing businesses that are not being created anywhere else, that drives exports and imports, maintains aerospace, farming, that is the single biggest market in the US, it has the biggest purchasing power, enhances the Navy and Army, etc...etc...

No country is going to curve nd dump a proven successful market for the likes of Alabama or middle America. Gurl, please.

No only would the pact include the West coast states, many more states are likely to join in the coming days. LOL at middle America having a say on anything. The Western states need no one's approval.

Remind me not to move in next door to R83.

During the Civil War, a fair number of foreign countries tacitly (or blatantly) sided with the Confederacy.

There's no question that, for political and cultural reasons, lots of Europeans (not to mention Canada and Mexico and probably Japan) would prefer to align with a progressive West Coast nation than with a reactionary, xenophobic US led by someone like Trump. The West Coast economy is big and strong enough that the Europeans would never cave in to pressure from a Trump-type regime in the US to simply ignore it. The EU's economy would be a lot bigger than a US economy without California et al.

Fascist Fuhrer Newsom grasping at more More MORE power and control. But he's hawt, so it doesn't matter.

I'm an ICU nurse. In California. I work on a unit that accepts COVID-19 patients. And so far I'm still here and so are all my co-workers, and I'm getting a night off, because the governmental authorities acted in time to keep the virus from overwhelming the healthcare system on the west coast!

When all this is over, or has at least died down a bit, I hope to be able to say: "I did my part, the people who run the state, local, and coastal-state governments did theirs, and Trump and his minions should be ETERNALLY ASHAMED that they did not do theirs! But at least we voted them out because of it.".

You might want to work on that last sentence, R94.

Lol, I can't anymore. The animus for middle America as though that is the whole United States. Do you really think the world will abandon New York City for LA? It has nothing to do with flyover deplorable country, they've been economically irrelevant for years. But like it or not, California benefits from integration with the rest of the U.S.

Enjoy your pipe dreams, it's all you have.

Just look at Brexit. Businesses started moving out of the U.K. after the vote.

Where would the tourism hotspots be for the Hillbilly Nation? Dallas and Miami? If you’re down for a good race or Fag bashing... but maybe NY, CA withdraw and Idiocracy will be finally formed.

As long as they don’t start calling it the Tripartite Pact.

Blue Notes

Luckily there are Californians everywhere and they want to return home to California to visit.

So breaking up the USA ain't happening.

R101 If you're outside California, you're an ex-Californian.

How will this effect real estate prices?

Now we’re talking. A very healthy step.

What’s this I missed?

[quote] And this on the same day the NE governors all join together and ignore Trump.

The People's Gaypublic of Drugafornia!

R101 They can get a passport.

[quote] Do you really think the world will abandon New York City for LA?

Who says NY is staying?

No one's talking secession. This is a bold, admirable move for states to handle the crisis our criminal POS in the White House is bumbling spectacularly.

[quote]This is a bold, admirable move for states to handle the crisis our criminal POS in the White House

Speaking of criminal(s), it would be far more admirable if Newsom and his fascist cohorts would reinstate the Constitutional rights of their citizens.

Gonna be fun. The president has control over federal resources and employees. Feds can also set aside any state law that adversely affects interstate commerce under the Commerce clause And the supremacy doctrine. Ie federal law prevails over state.

In which case, R110, please post your address so that the deplorables can have a party at your house and gather you in their arms for congratulatory hugs.

Deplorables are shocked to realized that the no one owes them anything. A union is only serviceable until it no longer works for one party. This is the source of their anger, the realization that blue states could move on. Their entire world is crashing down because it is imaginable, for the first time in their lifetime, that they could be hold accountable for their actions and the place they feel is home is not guaranteed .

When push comes to shove no economy will chose collapse out of loyalty to a piece of paper. The survival instinct will kick in and blue states will not look back.

[quote]Do you really think the world will abandon New York City for LA?

New York also formed its own alliance, so I guess its a mute point.

GAH! MOOT POINT!

R112 = Deplorable fascist supporting fascism. How about you post YOUR address, so that those who are interested in their Constitutional rights and the rule of law can stop by and punish a collaborator of fascism.

[quote]Their entire world is crashing down because it is imaginable, for the first time in their lifetime, that they could be hold accountable for their actions and the place they feel is home is not guaranteed .

Hitler expressed much the same sentiment at his first mass rally as Chancellor in1933. Except instead of scapegoating "red states" and "deplorables", he scapegoated Jews.

Sure, R116, it's 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500.

It's coming down on them like a bucket of ice cold water. Nobody owes them even the benefit of a home to call country.

While red states were busy destroying their own states with idiotic religious pursuits. Blue economies were forming strong economies and forming connections throughout the world. No one is going to prioritized business with broken governments over successful ones. No country is going to abandon business and trade with the West Coast or any other successful state that jumps ship for the broken middle America.

This is what they don't get. They have no leverage because they never took the time to become competitive prosperous economies. The world is living them behind and they are not coping.

Chill Bills

R118 = Republican fascists BAD! Democratic fascists GOOD!

And what are the plans for Cook county (Chicago and suburbs - including where the hell I live)? We can take some of the collar counties with us as well - the rest of Illinois has wanted to split with us as a group for a while, so we aren’t coming as one whole state. Commiserations to the students and faculty of the main U of I campus based in the dead center of the state, far from civilization.

Well off liberal, democratic blue states have realized DT and his administration declared war upon them from day one. Worse he has used this current crisis to double down on things in attempts to force governors of said states to kiss his fat white ass.

DT is an idiot with barely a high school education level. He has never studied law, been an attorney nor held a political office. This puts him at a distinct advantage against governors and other local elected officials who know fully well how things roll.

This union needs to be recognized by the EU with full member nation benefits and rights.

Let’s get cracking.

No, R121, I don't believe in throwing a blanket political epithet onto an issue that without effective containment would likely result in the deaths of at least a million Americans. Is that what you're espousing? Fascism isn't even an agreed terms among historians as to its application, common characteristics, or nature. Have you read the 80 pages of WH correspondence that show the measures suggested back in January that were blatantly ignored and obfuscated? What would you suggest be done to contain a pandemic instead? The Dems aren't blameless in how this has been handled, but I don't think they were advocating an Easter recovery at any point either. Also see the post at R125 for a comparison of how it was handled by the prior administration.

Now R126 rather than R125

Knowing Hawaii, I predict they will secede and reinstate their monarchy.

BBC : State governors are discussing plans to resume economic activity without apparent input from the Trump administration. Officials in New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania promised an "overwhelmingly prudent" approach, but gave no timeline.

Could these 7 states form another regional pact? Pretty please?

And they won't be the only ones. Look for Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois to form their own as well. Montana might join in too...

[quote]I don't believe in throwing a blanket political epithet onto an issue that without effective containment would likely result in the deaths of at least a million Americans.

R125 No, you believe in turning a blind eye to fascism because it suits agenda and the mood of hysteria and panic. Much like Germans in 1933 and Austrians in 1938. "Shelter in place" and "social distancing" were the first salvo in the revoking of citizens rights, and the Dems are leading the fascist charge. They ARE to blame.

R130 that midwestern pact would be terrific too. Can Pete be made governor right away do Indiana can join? Or some midwestern state import him please.

Uh....no, R131, but thanks for informing me about what I believe. Omniscience must be quite nice. And perhaps my history might be a bit askew, but I don't recall 1933 Germany or 1938 Austria being overrun by a pandemic or anything even remotely comparable. But in your world apples must be oranges.

Also I asked you some valid questions, R131, none of which you answered.

[quote] I don't believe in throwing a blanket political epithet onto an issue that without effective containment would likely result in the deaths of at least a million Americans. Is that what you're espousing?

"Likely." Speculation. Scare tactics. Most people recover. And in the end, irrelevant to the Constitution and the rule of law. Ignoring the rule of law is what fascists do. And there's always a rationale. And a scapegoat.

[quote]Have you read the 80 pages of WH correspondence that show the measures suggested back in January that were blatantly ignored and obfuscated?

Irrelevant to the citizens rights, the Constitution and rule of law.

[quote] What would you suggest be done to contain a pandemic instead?

Certainly NOT revoke citizens rights and the rule of law using media-fueled hysterial and panic.

[quote] but I don't recall 1933 Germany or 1938 Austria being overrun by a pandemic or anything even remotely comparable

That's because you are ignorant of history. Germany was in the depths of the Depression, tens of millions out of work, horrendous inflation. The identical panic, hysteria, despair and need for a national "saviour". Enter the little corporal. Same as Newsom, same as Dems legislators taking advantage of popular confusion and despair to deprive citizens of their rights and the rule of law.

R134 Questions answered.

You and government leaders such as Newsom who continue to promote "shelter in place", "safer at home" and "social distancing" are also promoting fascism and the absence of civil rights and rule of law. Yes, the panicked, gullible masses are to blame for acquiescing so silently and easily. But the Dems are to blame for promoting the denial of civil rights for their own power and control.

Oh, and spare me the word games, what exact is or isn't "fascism". It's simply more rationale for Deplorable Dem power politics.

R123

Last paragraph should read "distinct disadvantage....." not advantage.

Carry on.....

[quote]Newsom wants a civil war.

No, Trump and his supporters are the ones who want the civil war, who have deliberately tried to inflict pain on CA and other blue states. The blue states are just trying to protect themselves from this regime.

The psycho Trump fan who keeps screeching about Newsom being a FASCIST! and fascism fascism fascism needs to go jump in the Pacific. Block that nut job.

It's happening. The United States of Liberty and Education vs. Jesusland...

R137 proves the rule never remind a fascist (or a bigot or a racist) about exactly what he is and/or what he supports.

The Deplorables are freaking out and trying to stamp their little feet hard enough to make people pay attention to them but they are so uneducated that their arguments just make people laugh at them even more. "Oh, yeah, well, all our trade will just have to go through Oklahoma! Jesus and the angels will fly everything in!" Fucking idiots.

Jesusland would win a war in a heartbeat. You can't pay immigrants to fight a war for you.

You all realize this is how the Civil War started? States fussing over treaties and tariffs and deciding they didn't have to obey the federal government.

Jesusland couldn't afford to have an Army. Especially after we join with Mexico to take back Texas. They can have the land back and we in the United States of Liberty and Education get a great deal on the oil. Plus, the entire international community would be with us except the criminal states. Enjoy being part of the NeoAxis Powers, Jesusland.

Do you think anything will happen when it is proven that Trump kept supplies from the blue states and even stole shipments bought by the blue states to send to his red state "friends"?

[quote]States fussing over treaties and tariffs

States fussing over the deaths of their residents, you mean. The theft of the medical supplies that THEY purchased by the federal government. A federal government which has failed in its very basic purpose, which is to protect its citizens. And is actively denying the states the federal aid, such as PPE supplies, that our tax dollars paid for. Nothing so trifling as treaties and tariffs.

And as for paying immigrants to fight for you - the US military has been doing exactly that for years. Look it up. Meanwhile the residents of Jesusland would have to put down the Cheetos and unstick themselves from the couch before they could do much of anything.

Well goodness, shut me up!

We're going to side with the Mexican government (actually cartels) to take Texas, a state which has successfully defeated Mexico in a war already.

The states with the highest per capita military recruitment and gun ownership can't afford to fight the immigrants we're going to hire to rebel against the Union for us!

Take advantage of that hot real estate market while you can, Cali's joining the E.U.!

Thankfully this is a stunt, but you cunts deserve whatever the U.S. military wouls bring your way. Champagne confederates.

Actually you didn't answer my questions, R135. You sidestepped them with sophistry and semantics and with no remedies at all. Those questions are only "irrelevant" to your tunnel vision absolutism. Since you refused to answer my questions directly, I can only infer that your belief is that the populace should remain undeterred from the right to assemble regardless of how many people die (120,000 so far) as a result.

At R126 are some measures taken by Obama to contain prior pandemics effectively. You've offered no remedies whatsoever regarding containtment of pandemics, If I extrapolate what you've stated about the absolute rights you've interpreted within the Constitution, then however many people die just comes with the territory.

You seem to have a tendency to jump to the pejorative without due diligence. I'm not ignorant of history. A pandemic does not equal any of the factors that you've listed. And we both know which nepotistic autocrat has benefited most from recent mass social hysteria around racism and all of the other MAGA crap. But sure, let's just be unfettered absolutist laissez-faire capitalists beholden to the almighty buck, and let the pandemic run its course unfettered. It's only exponential death.

R127*

(Do you think anything will happen when it is proven that Trump kept supplies from the blue states and even stole shipments bought by the blue states to send to his red state "friends"?)

How likely or possible is that? Many states have their own international trade IIRC.

Nothing is ever going to happen to DT and his enablers in Congress/administration long as that buffoon remains in office. If we get a good democrat POTUS and larger majority in senate plus keeping the House, then things might be different.

Such an administration could order inspector generals for all departments to conduce top down forensic audits of how things were handled. Congress could hold hearings, and or fund investigations that lead to a full congressional report being issued.

Again none of this will happen long as McConnell and his right wing evangelical GOP lunatics are in power.

[quote]You sidestepped them with sophistry and semantics and with no remedies at all.

R146 I'm neither in government nor medicine, therefore, it is not incumbent upon me to provide remedies. But in the interest of further highlighting the fascist label you and your ilk indignantly argue is misdirected, the principal remedy that anyone with a modicum of good governance would enact for the preservation of civil rights and the rule of law: DECLARE MARTIAL LAW. There! Brilliant remedy! Then both those that govern and the citizens they govern have a set of regulations and laws under which to operate going forward. But of course, no one is going to do that, because once they do, then it brings in civil liberties organisations and law courts and no fascist fuck wants his power/glory rescinded by a judge telling him "Sorry, asshole, your mandates, orders and diktats are UNCONSTITUTIONAL". The alternative is exactly what is currently happening; ramp up the fear and hysteria, keep the masses terrified, compliant and unquestioning.

[quote]A pandemic does not equal any of the factors that you've listed.

That's because you've never lived through horrific inflation, joblessness, depression, hyperinflation. I'm sure the Germans who lived through that, including my late Father, would feel the same way about a pandemic.

[quote]And we both know which nepotistic autocrat has benefited most from recent mass social hysteria around racism and all of the other MAGA crap. But sure, let's just be unfettered absolutist laissez-faire capitalists beholden to the almighty buck, and let the pandemic run its course unfettered. It's only exponential death.

Personal opinion is irrelevant to the main topics under discussion: Civil rights, the Constitution and the rule of law. But any deflection in an increasingly indefensible storm, I guess.

R145, take your pills You are unhinged.

Oh, dear.

R150 - I’m sorry. I must not be comprehending. The way to PROTECT rights and AVOID hysteria is *martial law?

*(which is severely limited in scope in this country by posse comitatus and various other legal decisions and precedents).

It would not only cause mass panic, it would do so for no reason because as I stated - martial law is constrained in this country. Furthermore, a simple google search - not even academic reading, will gladly point you toward the correlation between declarations of martial law and use of emergency powers to suspend or dismantle rights. Just a few off the dome Musharraf (2007, Pakistan, emergency declaration) - suspends the constitution and arrests the Supreme Court - 2nd time he had used martial law in a power grab . Reichstag fire decree (1933, Germany, Emergency Decree) -we all know how that ended. Egypt (emergency decree 1981-2012) allowed Mubarak to remain in power with expanded police, surveillance and censorship powers and was enacted after a national tragedy. See a pattern?

Using a crisis to declare emergency powers causes not only fear, hysteria, and limitation or suspension of civil rights - it’s also page one of the dictators handbook.

Ffs

Stop taking the bait. You're letting the trolls derail the conversation. When they derail the discussion, they win. Block them and engage with in constructive conversations.

[quote]It would not only cause mass panic, it would do so for no reason because as I stated

R152 There already IS mass panic. And hysteria. But then that's what fascists wants. Keep em docile and compliant.

[quote]the correlation between declarations of martial law and use of emergency powers to suspend or dismantle rights.

So let's just revoke civil rights and constitutional amendments to what? Not turn out like third-word dictatorships Pakistan and Egypt? Or is it better to deprive citizens of their civil rights than to have to be questioned about summary diktats, mandates and orders according to rule of law?

No, far worse. Let's deprive citizens of their civil rights, offer them no recourse to protest because that civil right is gone. And yeah, let's snow them that benign terms like "shelter in place", "social distancing" and "safer at home" are not the infringement on civil rights that they most certainly ARE.

[quote]it’s also page one of the dictators handbook.

Yep, and that's exactly what's happen. Fascist dictators like Newsom hand out orders and the public has no recourse but to follow.

Yes, I do see a pattern. And it has FASCISM written all over it.

What I love about this is that it throws a giant "fuck you" at Trump, who the same day asserted that

[quote]For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect.... It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.

He's wrong, of course, and this just highlights that. It also highlights his administration's many failures in dealing with the crisis, which is why they're bypassing him and leaving him helpless and ranting on the sidelines. I love it when policy and politics align.

R154 - Actually, because Egypt and Palestine are based on a democratic system (that had been hijacked by Musharraf and Mubarak) - Both were overthrown. Musharraf has been sentenced to death, Mubārak faced multiple legal trials in the years before his death. In both cases, democracy prevailed. In a true dictatorship, any mention of overstepping bounds disappears when the dictator stops using marshal law/emergency powers as the justification for continued repression. It evolves from “my authority is based on marshal law to my authority is my authority and won’t be questioned.” I recall Steven Miller saying something about authority “not being questioned” early in this administration. At this rate “third world dictatorships” as you call them, have done a better job holding to account corrupt leaders than the United States. It’s actually getting to be quite a shambles when you consider that many countries that you and your ilk would refer to as “shithole countries” are outperforming the US in certain metrics. And well, lets not get started on how many more countries are beating us in educational achievement/attainment, healthcare, gun violence, literacy, infrastructure. One of the reasons dictators and autocrats are able to install themselves in former democracies and republics is because the populace believe that there is nothing left to fight for (see: all of history). And I guess fortunately people are beginning to wake up to the fact that America has a lot of problems and really isn’t the best at a lot of the things we claim to be - and the constant spoon feeding of patriotism and telling Americans “we’re the best” isn’t working anymore because we aren’t in so many areas. Unfortunately, instead of having a government and a populace that wants to fight to make it better, people are falling into the trap of a “savior complex” - and the savior, 99% of the time is a dictator or autocrat in waiting (see:Trump). And even with all of the history and psychological background I just laid out - your answer is martial law* because at least in that case, the fascism will be laid down on a piece of paper signed by Trump rather than a temporary stay at home order issued by Gavin Newsom. I notice you haven’t mentioned the Governor* of Georgia’s stay at home order - recently extended by a month, as fascist.

FFS.

PS - self defeating argument/ non-sequitor: It does not follow that use the same mechanism (martial law/emergency declaration) that Musharraf and Mubarak used to grab power made them “dictators” and “fascists” - but if Trump were to do it he would not be/become a dictator or a fascist.

PPS - reading is fundamental, particularly history.

Okay, R154, I'm going to follow the advice of some of the other posters on here, thus I will stop taking the bait of your hyperbole and polarization. The crux of my posts was to invite reason to remedy. You seem to be more invested in your own brand of hysteria by calling even the most incremental of measures a headlong jump into fascism. And when challenged to provide an antidote that makes sense, you suddenly cite your lack of qualifications, yet you continue to incite by ramping up the hyperbole to throw martial law into the mix as an ostensible solution, which you then bait and switch to vilify further. I'm certainly not advocating martial law. Nor will I conflate social and economic issues (inflation, depression, unemployment) with a virus that is killing people and requires exceptional measures to keep people alive.

You seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that we're faced with a catch-22 with this pandemic. People assembling means people infecting each other with a highly contagious virus that has escalated in large part due to the poor decisions of the current regime (see R127). At some point emergency measures need to be taken unless you'd rather that people die. Or we can just continue to watch the antics of the buffoon at large while we preserve our right to assemble and die.

My post at R157 was a final response to R150 by the way, who is also R154.

Poor IL the only sane state left in the Midwest. Michigan has shown signs of bi-polar disorder in the 2016 election. We could have been a bad bitch with IL, MI, WI, and MN. All well.

I guess MN keeps things real so I should add IL and MN.

R159 - Wisconsin is back in the fold. In 2018 they overcame the GOP legislators using moderate forms of voter suppression to elect a good governor. And last week (week before last?) Wisconsinites managed to overcome having only 5 polling places open in Milwaukee and closures in Madison (waiting upwards of 6 hours in the cold and rain) to defeat a sitting conservative judge on the state Supreme Court in the face of the most blatant voter suppression gambit to date. A postal worker noted that there were three boxes of unmailed absentee ballots that never got to voters In their processing room (thanks to the legislators screwing with the dates) and yet people still managed to overcome the bullshit. Hopefully 2020 turnout can overcome the extreme gerrymandering of the state legislature that was signed by Scott Walker.

I’m also going to stop taking the bate.....you are right r157 and r153.

Did any of you read this? All it say is "We will try to communicate between our states better in the future."

It's a lot of nothing

[quote]Some NE states have GOP governors... they are more like purple states than blue states.

Republicans in the Northeastern states are not the Bible-thumping, gun-toting crazies that Republicans in other regions of the country are. NE Republicans are more in line with the old-school Republican Party.

NE Republican governors are centrists.

True, r165. Much more in line with the old school kind of Republicanism. Any Republican running on social issues like abortion or gays or what have you wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting elected in the NE. And publicly espousing your religious beliefs is considered tacky in the NE as well.

Yes, local politics are removed from national politics.

Kansas will elect a democratic governor but they aren't going to vote for a Dem president. Massachusetts will elect Republican governor but they aren't going to vote for a Republican president.

There is a big difference between local parties and local politics, and national politics.

[quote]And yeah, let's snow them that benign terms like "shelter in place", "social distancing" and "safer at home" are not the infringement on civil rights that they most certainly ARE.

None of those have stopped me from going about in public or talking with my friends. If you need 10 or more people to publically crawl up your ass at a non-essential store to exercise your right of free speech, then you are technically impaired. In the unlikely event that our internet and phones are disabled, the zillions of drivers coughing Corona all over our deliveries can be employed as de facto carrier pigeons.

[quote] If you need 10 or more people to publically crawl up your ass at a non-essential store to exercise your right of free speech,

Oh please at anybody believing that basement dwelling, Trump ass licking MAGAt crying about fascism even has one friend, let alone 10!

Pretty soon middle America will be alone, broke, and begging for help to stay afloat as Blue states prioritize trade and business with their fellow blue partners. The volatility and brutality of the red states have pushed us to this.

Even if a Democratic administration comes along, states realize there is a pay off with forming regional alliances. The West Coast and Southwest could only strengthen their economies and stability if they recognize the important leverage they possess. The same scenario will play with other regions like the North East. No one has to be bound to what red states nor do we have to suffer the same faith every 8 years.

Bye bye Deplorables. Keep driving people away until you find yourself with nothing.

fate*

[quote]But like it or not, California benefits from integration with the rest of the U.S.

I don't think anyone doubts this. The interesting question is whether California benefits from integration with the rest of the U.S. more than the rest of the U.S. benefits from integration with California.

But it doesn't matter, everyone knows the west coast isn't going to secede. We just like to dream about it at times like this.

The West will separate but it will probably happen when other generations are in power. Like any big changes in history, it's a process.

Westerners are becoming more aware of their own strength, but it will probably be the work of the next generations that push for a break up. The current generations in power were not brought up to think of their states as individual entities, so a revaluation of how we view North America is barely taking place. However, the people that are kids right now and those that come after them will grow up with this added layer of awareness. They are going to grow up in a United States that is more aware of the individuality of each state. 20 years down the road the talk about a break up will be more prominent on common, especially as we learn the long term effects of what took place during the Trump administrations. Some of the damage will take years to repair,

Conversely, younger generations are more liberal and have more in common than Boomers or Silent Geners. Maybe in 20 years the lines will have blurred so much that states won't be as individual anymore. God knows most Boomers will be dead by then.

Gov. Gavin Newsom outlines goals that must be met to lift California coronavirus order

This makes so much more sense than anything that's coming out of Washington. (The on in DC, obvs.)

The one thing we might see immediately is the isolation of red states. These alliances between blue economies are definitely here to stay.

[quote]Gov. Gavin Newsom outlines goals that must be met to lift California coronavirus order. This makes so much more sense than anything that's coming out of Washington.

They states have a better understanding of the Pandemic. Thank god for our governors.

I love the line in the article about how Newsom could lift the stay-at-home orders for the state, but that counties would be free to maintain restrictions if they wanted to. Sort of a dig at Trump and his refusal to acknowledge that states can do whatever the want.

I don't know if it's really red states vs. blue states so much as it's a rural vs. urban divide. Small towns have way too much influence. It's simply not commensurate given their actual population.

It begins

It begins

[quote]Who gives a fuck if Texas and the other deplorable states reopen, they are nothing without the economic engines on the coasts.

Texas, unlike other deplorable states, has an economy that can stand on its own. It could easily secede and I wish it would turn blue since I live in Houston. It's already purple but republicans still win statewide only because of gerrymandering. In larger cities we have plenty of Dem mayors.

Surprise...I already had R154 blocked. Must be an old troll.

[quote] but republicans still win statewide only because of gerrymandering

That's what gerrymandering means or how it works. Gerrymandering doesn't affect a statewide election.

Okay R183 rural rubes then.

I see you r86.

R3...That's the currency where you live. Now, put down the Vodka and get back to work.

R185, yes! Speaking of Jay Inslee, here's a younger photo of him.

And another.

Not that it's any of my business (but this is DL) is he a hot older crush or an age appropriate crush for you 187?

R189, I'm 36, so an older crush.

Do we have a national anthem yet?

California, Oregon and Washington can be joined by New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut in the new country. Just because we're geographically separated doesn't mean we can't be the same country.

Don't forget us...

Isn’t this setting a bad precedent in regards to the office of President? I know we all despise Trump but what happens when say the next Democrat enters the White House. If state and government officials think they can ignore and disrespect the POTUS won’t that have long term implications.

r194 this is always how things were supposed to operate. The Presidency has expanded well beyond the intended use. Now, this type of situation only occurs when the Federal government fails to act. This is a great precedence for many of the liberal policy agendas like Universal Healthcare in America. If the Fed fails, the liberal states can join together. Given the population sizes, these states could really make a lot happen. But again, this only happens through dereliction of duty by the Federal government.

I always wondered why Democrats forget to harness the power of state's rights. Hopefully, people will wake up the the importance of their local governments. Welcome to 21st century America.

r192 that's a foolish proposal. Throw away the benefits of middle America for some coastal states? Naw, I'd rather just learn how to dominate Presidential elections, wake up Democrats to always vote, and use a scorched earth tactic on our policy agendas at the state and federal level. We break up the country and we will become even more irrelevant as a nation, like the British fallowing WWII. No thanks, I like being a super power with a strong economy which includes all 50 states. Over my dead body would I support breaking up this country. No time for defeatist attitudes.

And isn’t that setting an even worse precedent, r195? Say the Red States start trying to asserting their rights by also banding together.

Couldn’t that lead to even more division and trouble in the future?

[quote]If state and government officials think they can ignore and disrespect the POTUS

LMAO. But it's okay for the POTUS to ignore and disrespect the states, deny them federal aid that they're entitled to, and even use FEMA to fucking steal the equipment they've purchased themselves?

Maryland leading the way for an eastern seaboard pact? Go Maryland! Go New York! Go New Jersey!

Maryland has obtained 500,000 tests from South Korea following weeks of negotiations, Larry Hogan, the state’s Republican governor, said on Monday, in an announcement that raised questions about governors circumventing the federal government to obtain medical equipment.

The operation was done in secret, a stark go-around of Trump, who has contradicted his own remarks on states’ dependency on the federal government to improve national testing deficits.

“The administration is trying to ramp up testing,” the governor said in an earlier CNN interview. “But to try to push this off, to say the governors have plenty of testing and they should just get to work on testing, somehow we aren’t doing our jobs, is just absolutely false.”

Waorecali or Caliwasore, or Orewascali or San Andres.

Do you think they’ll do statewide searches/interrogations for the most desirable “offerings” to give to the Governors?? I think that’s how Queen Hester got her start in the bible!

R36 Follow-up: It was reported yesterday that Colorado and Nevada are joining.

We're going to secede! Yippeee!