Japan and China

I think China will always hate Japan...will it ever change?

Collegeboy: to phrase it in a way kids your age will understand:

Ermagod, they are so like totes not BFFs or baes together!

They have dirty knees in common from what I've heard.

They were still fighting over some islands not so long ago, so probably relations are strained to say the least.

Japan is in a bind because it moved all its manufacturing to China and its population is aging. It is going to be more and more dependent on China in the future. Still Japan will not apologize for atrocities in WWII in any meaningful way and the CCP is probably ok with that because it lets them whip up nationalist anti-Japanese anger. There's the Spratly Islands issue as well. But they have a shared interest in making sure North Korea doesn't collapse. There is probably a lot of coordination on under-the-table aid and whatnot to prop Kim up. Neither country wants to deal with a flood of North Korean refugeess.

Ultimately I think both are waiting to see what happens in the US post-Trump. The Spratly Islands and North Korea issues cannot be solved without stable and reliable US leadership. Not much is going to change in Asia until idiot Trump is out of office.

[quote] Neither country wants to deal with a flood of North Korean refugeess.

R5, wouldn't that become more of a problem for South Korea/reunified Korean peninsula?

I have always wanted to visit both for different reasons.

R1 and Vietnam has every reasons out there to deeply hate China and then Japan

North Korean ghost ships show up on Japan's west coast all the time. They are escapees or fishers from North Korea who died of starvation at sea. Also, Japan has a large North Korean community on its west coast. The North Koreans in Japan have been there since the war/occupation, and they run pachinko parlos and illegal gambling.

I would visit Tokyo, Japan. Love anime and manga. Fuck China! Never.

Chinese eyes curve up. Japanese eyes curve down.

This is a well-known fact for young boys all over America.

Japan was only in Vietnam for four years, and the animosity doesn't run as deep as China or Korea. In 1945 Vietnam's problems with the French began again, and then civil war broke out. I think another reason that there's less rancor is because Japan has invested a lot in Vietnam, probably with an eye to oil exploration-- the same reason Japan invaded Vietnam in the first place.

I've been to both. Japan is lovely. China is a festering shithole.

Japan is now offering millions to companies who pull out of China

This is quite a reversal of American opinions from WWII, when China was portrayed as the good guy and everything Japanese was considered suspect.

They’ve been fighting over the Tim Whatley Islands for years.

Japan has bad blood with the rest of Asia.

There is a lot of animosity between China and Japan, and Korea and Japan.

R17 I'm pretty sure China has some bad blood with neighbor countries too

East Asians all hate each other, just like Europeans and Latin Americans.

You'll be hard-pressed to find any two neighboring or adjacent countries in the world where there aren't some long-standing, historical resentments or grievances.

R19 is correct. Much like the Europeans and Latin Americans, East and Southeast Asians have spent eons warring with and attempting to dominate one another. They've all treated one another horrifically, though the Japanese were far more practiced at it. What is interesting is that despite brutalising one another, their language and culture all benefited from contact with one another.

[quote]What is interesting is that despite brutalising one another, their language and culture all benefited from contact with one another.

The same could be said for Europe, with Romans and others over the centuries.

One is sclerotic and dying. One is a disgusting mess but is rising and will control the world.

#2 and #3 in IQ. #3 will own the West soon.

[quote]#3 will own the West soon.

No, probably not. This pandemic is likely to change a lot of things. This is the first time Westerners have been directly affected.

[quote]This is the first time Westerners have been directly affected.

And it won't be the last. It's a brave, new world of warfare. Conventional weapons are no longer necessary. An unknown germ, a infected few people with passports and plane tickets are all that is required to conquer and subdue. See the current situation in the US and Europe for details.

^^^ a few infected people ^^^

r25 the US and Europe are not being conquered and subdued. by China because of this.

R26 No? So you must be in a Western country where the population is not under government-mandated house arrest, and are able to move about and support yourself with no restrictions. Which country is that?

And what are countries going to do to hold China responsible for deliberately spreading a pandemic? And how do you imagine China will react to being held responsible? And what protections are countries going to institute to prevent a recurrence of another deliberate pandemic, deaths, and financial/social ruin?

^^^ R27, not R26^^^

I've lived in both. I preferred the Chinese people because they at least told you what they thought. They weren't as pushy as I had been expecting, and had a raucous backslapping sense of humour. By the way - they know how shit their political situation is, but like Americans, it's easier to just out your head down and get on with life. When I first moved to my town I met a man who said - have you seen the giant Buddha? I hadn't even heard of it. he took me to a statue carved into a wall that was thousands of years old. There wasn't anyone around. There a so many ancient places like that in the country, I'd love to go back some day.

Most people I met didn't eat exotic animals and amongst the younger generation there is certainly a lot more environmental awareness. I was surprised at the wind generations strewn across the country.

Japan is an amazing place in different ways. The cultural differences are around shame and submission.

But get a few drinks in anyone and most people are just people. I recommend both countries, amazing places.

Excuse the typos and grammar - wrote in a rush.

China always seems to have a mental block, bordering on inferiority complex when it comes to Japan.

Japan of course was very vicious in the first half of the twentieth century. They were aggressors against China, Soviet Union and the United States. That's pretty bold for a small island

China is gross. And racist.

And your statement isn't, R33?

Japan's superiority complex and inability to recognize or apologize appropriately for their disgusting, homicidal behavior has done them no favors.

I don't know if it is about 'face', but they have made a bad thing worse by denying it or not dealing with it.

I loved Japan, but the seem incapable of addressing any of their issues. They have to make it easier to start and support families, but they don't - they still revere their elders (who seem to only care about themselves) and they force people to work crushing even fatal hours.

China will get back on their feet - their Cultural Revolution moved them into a country of stupids and rubes. It is turning around, but that generation is older and in charge. THAT generation is particularly disgusting - rude, cruel, unsophisticated, proudly arrogant and disrespectful. But they will die off in the next 20 years.

I've never heard of America formally apologizing for the slave treatment and the subsequent segregation of blacks. And yet y'all are quick to call out Japan

Ugh - here comes R36 trying to twist things around again.

A quick Google search would tell you that, yes, the US government HAS apologized for it as well as for many other things that were wrong.

Japanese school books don't talk about these atrocities. US school books and history absolutely focus on slavery and the problems.

Stop being such an knee-jerk reactionary to any criticism of any country and then spotlighting it back on the US. It's makes you look like an idiot SJW out for woke points.

The comparison to make is not with the US r36 but with Germany, which did a lot to acknowledge the suffering of its victims in WWII. Japan did not and instead framed itself as the victim due to the nuclear bomb. From within Japan, you'd think that WWII affected them and only them. There is very little awareness of the bad shit that Japan did to its neighbors. Germany is totally different.

But like I said the war responsibility issue is convenient for politicians in South Korea and also the CCP because it's easy way to rally the people and to deflect from domestic problems. I don't think the CCP has as firm grip on the country as is claimed and I think that the future of China could look very differently from what we expect today. I agree with r35.

Korea has almost as much anger towards Japan as China. However, China also has various countries which are not too happy with it, including some regions inside of mainland China that want to their own autonomous country. AKA Tibet.

"that want to be"

To give an idea of how deep resentment in East Asia is against Japan to this day--I read a story by someone who taught ESL in South Korea. When the whole Fukushima thing happened a few years ago, young Korean students were saying things like "Not enough Japanese people were killed".

R41 Don't you think it's mostly older people and older generations who really hate Japan though? To put it in American terms, like the Greatest or Silent Generations who called them Japs decades later because of Pearl Harbor and WWII.

It seems younger people today associate Japan with anime, technology, cars, cutesy pop culture

R17 You mean North Korea. They are friends with South Korea. And there is no country called Korea

You must not know any Korean people r43, South Korea is colloquially referred to as Korea. And there is absolutely a ton of animosity towards Japan.

The Korean guy I worked with hated Chinese people and liked Japanese people. He was very vocal about it during happy hour. He said Chinese people were "rude, dirty and disgusting". He was in his early 30's at the time (about 10 years ago) maybe a generational thing.

Japan is probably not happy about having their Olympics canceled.

r20 not hard at all, just look at the United States' relationship with Canada and Mexico. The immigration thing and drugs could be considered an issues with Mexico, but for the most part we've been great neighbors. The Canadian v US issues are so small they might as well be squabbles between NY and CT. North America has a strong track record of harmony between previously waring nations.

Don't make me choose between orange chicken and sushi!

R46 Japan was definitely looking forward to showcasing their technological innovation at the Olympic opening festival. I guess they will still get a chance but it will come at a cost, having to reschedule

Japanese bear/daddy porn is good but the always blur out the pubic hair, that annoys me.

The Japanese navy attacked a Chinese boat invading their waters just a few years back. It seemed ominous at the time.

[quote] China always seems to have a mental block, bordering on inferiority complex when it comes to Japan.

This. China doesn't feel intimidated by the US or any European country but I do think they are intimidated by Japan. China has never really defeated Japan in anything before.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Japan ditches China in multimillion dollar Corona Virus shakeout.

Korea must feel pretty caught between both countries.

I find both countries tremendous!

R52 Exactly. China is like the high school nerd who is now buff but still intimidated by their high school bully of Japan

[quote] R36: I've never heard of America formally apologizing for the slave treatment and the subsequent segregation of blacks. And yet y'all are quick to call out Japan

Not the thread for this discussion but didn’t want to leave this unanswered. More than half the US country fought in the civil war to free slaves, and with an appalling loss of life. I lost an ancestral cousin. He was 21. And slavery in the US wasn’t out of step with the rest of the world, excluding the UK, which was ahead of much of Europe. Slavery was still legal in much of the African and Arab world well into the 20th century.

Many of the comments here are about the aging population in Japan, but isn’t that just as a percentage? I mean, don’t they still have a huge population of younger people in all demographics? My Japanese friend called it “a shame based culture”. It does seem to that Japan has gone down some dead ends, culturally. I recall reading, maybe 10 years ago, that the government had a public service campaign to try to get men to call their wives by their first name, instead of “hey you”.

The Chinese have had campaigns to try to get their people to stop spitting in the streets.

R58 Slavery is still legal in much of the world. Except now it's called human trafficking and in Muslim societies "servants".

How exactly did Japan manage to conquer such a huge country like China?

Through Hello Kitty, Rose.

Chinese go "ah so" a lot and use Calgon.

Japanese bomb you without warning and use babies for bayonet practice.

Karate vs Kung Fu

This song has a preference.

Japan would not have a written language without China's influence.

Buddhism and Confucianism also influenced the development of Japan's culture.

[quote] How exactly did Japan manage to conquer such a huge country like China?

That's a good question, R61, and something I've wondered myself. Japan is a bunch of islands, an archipelago. China has a huge land mass.

I've lived in Japan before. I have visited Hong Kong, but not mainland China. Japanese culture has been compared to German culture and I believe there are some similarities.

IMO, Japanese people are very disciplined. Sounds silly, but just the way they recycle stuff is very impressive. If it's decided that everybody is going to do something for the good of the country, then everybody (pretty much) just does it. It's not a fucking issue to be argued.

Sexual relations?

[quote] Japan would not have a written language without China's influence.

That's the thing with Japan. They don't claim to be first. They just watch and learn and then do it better.

Germany fought first in the war but then Japan fought longer and harder after Germany surrendered.

America manufactured cars first but then Japan learned and then started making them better.

China just hosted a successful Olympics, so Japan wanted to one up them better.

According to another thread, a lot of the Japan military's brutality in the war was due to them being high on amphetamines.

[quote] During World War II, the Allies and Axis powers both used the drug [meth] to keep troops awake.

R71, I'm not saying meth didn't exacerbate brutality, but it was mainly used to keep troops awake. Meth was used by other countries, not just Japan.

Interestingly, Japan invented crystal meth.

I thought the Nazis invented meth.

Naw the Nazis created sexy uniforms and the BDSM scene.

Germans created amphetamine , Japanese created methamphetamine, whatever that difference is R74

[quote]How exactly did Japan manage to conquer such a huge country like China?

Japan didn't completely conquer China. They captured Manchuria and Inner Mongolia, down to Nanjing, Shanghai, and the economic-industrial centers along the eastern seaboard. The remainder of China was divided into factions, with the Nationalist government, led by Chiang Kai-shek, embroiled in a bloody civil war against the Communists; and various warlords taking sides. Japan took advantage of these internal divisions and invaded.

Chiang Kai-shek, btw, had gone to military school in Japan and served in the Japanese Imperial Army. He was also not thrilled with the Manchu-led Qing Dynasty, which had capitulated to Western imperialists and left China impoverished and diminished. So when Japan invaded Manchuria, he turned a blind eye and instead concentrated on wiping out the Chinese Communists. After Japan set its sights on Nanking, Chiang was kidnapped by his military generals and forced to ally with the Communists against Japan.

No Chinese vs Japanese men comparison?

Are they cut or uncut?

Thanks r76. I also don't know what the hell the difference is, I thought it was all the same stuff.

I don't think they should be cutting any part of it, R79. They need all the help they can get.

A delightful WWII-era article from LIFE magazine: "How To Tell Japs From the Chinese."

I see a lot of parallels between the Germans and Japanese, in both good and bad ways. Both were cruel warmongers who tried to dominate and believed in their superiority. They were cruel to their neighbors. They both lost in WWII, but the Allied Powers helped them rebuild and they became economic powers and remain the most powerful countries in their region.

Personally I'd much rather live in Japan than in China. Have lived in both places. Hated China, loved Japan.

R84 Why the hate for CHina?

Wow! Thanks for the responses. Keep them coming please.

Sometimes Datalounge surprises me with the threads that catch on.

This is one of those times.

I visited China once, for work. I told my company I was never going back. It was unbelievably filthy. Westerners have never seen anything like it. I visited a wet market and I wish I hadn't. Barbaric.

Japan, on the other hand, was wonderful. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found the Japanese to be very gracious people, and exceedingly polite and respectful of others.

[quote] R63: Japanese bomb you without warning and use babies for bayonet practice.

And it was on a Sunday when everybody was in Church, R63!

I remember being taught that in school.

Japanese Americans have so integrated and cross married that they are almost gone. Chinese Americans still have a strong, purebred presence in the States.

[quote] and remain the most powerful countries in their region.

Japan isn’t powerful anymore lol. It’s very much in decline.

R38’s response. I remember something extremely similar from maybe 3 years ago. A lot of these responses actually.

I like South Korea. A plurality are Protestant and they love America. American English = prestige there. Center left government (vs. Japan’s quite creepy conservative LDP government). I’ve been to both. Japan looks very nice, but I found it very closed-off and staid. I found SK lovely and the people quite relatable. Japan and Korea are actually somewhat similar to Edwardian (i.e., uptight) England and modern Ireland, respectively.

[quote]I've never heard of America formally apologizing for the slave treatment and the subsequent segregation of blacks. And yet y'all are quick to call out Japan

My god, you are stupid.

r94 I mean, where is the lie. Has the united states apologized for slavery? We bent over backwards to correctly apologize for the Interment Camps. Has there even been an apology for the Native American massacres? I'm honestly interested as well?

A million Iraqi civilians paid the ultimate price for a lie. No apology was given.

[quote] Have relations between the two coutries ever improved?

Save that for the Premier. Our business is philosophy!

After what we did to Iraq, we should be destroyed.

[r88] is right, China is unbelievably filthy and unlike anything I, or I suspect most Westerners, have ever seen. People spit and hock and blow their noses everywhere - no Kleenex, no hanky, they just let it fly. And I'm not talking about the occasional sight, I saw it everywhere. It's so bad even the government is trying to encourage people not to do it, but it's ingrained in their culture. And like r88, I visited one market and insisted on leaving after 15 min. I tried not to be rude about it to my Chinese hosts so I feigned illness, but when they asked if I wanted to go back the next day I had to be firm and said no. There are some nice things about China, but it is the most unsanitary country I've ever seen. And people in both China and Japan are pleasant to your face, but privately they look down on Americans and absolutely think they are better as a race and country. Japan I can kind of understand, but China, just no.

Hong Kong, totally different story. Cool place and people.

The Deputy Prime of Japan recently said that the WHO (World Health Organisation) should change it's name to CHO for Chinese Health Organisation.

How has modern Japan managed to hold on to their monarchy yet China didn’t? The monarchy in China was incredibly ancient and influential, the Chinese emperor was premier among all the Asian monarchs.

China = shit hole.

R101, the last imperial dynasty of China was the Qing Dynasty, led by the Manchus of Manchuria. They had wrested control from the previous Ming Dynasty, made up mostly of Han Chinese. The Hans were anxious to return to power, so they stirred up anti-Manchu sentiment to get the people to rebel against the government. Also, China, in the hands of Qing rulers, had grown weak and antiquated and were unable to contain Western aggression. A series of humiliating defeats by foreign powers and ensuing unequal treaties stirred up angry rebellions and led to the eventual overthrow of the imperial government.

Japan, on the other hand, saw the devastating effects of western incursions into neighboring countries (China, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, Indochina, etc.), so they shut down their harbors to trade and implemented a long period of isolation. This helped preserve Japanese traditions and the monarchy.

This thread makes me want to watch Bertolucci's The Last Emperor again.

We are not here to do your college papers dear. Do your own homework bitch.

It is hard to overcome the past. Xi is the Emperor of China, though not called that. Putin is Premier of the Soviet Union, or Czar of Russia, whatever mask you choose to put on these people.

R104, I was going to say that, but I really don’t like how they killed that poor mouse — the child emperor’s pet, whom he threw against a wall. I’m pretty sure that was real.

How are they getting along these days?

R19 You have clearly never been to Latin America if you seriously think there is deep-seated hatred within the region.

R21 "Eons"? Over the last 150 years, you can count the number of large-scale military conflicts between Latin American countries on one hand. The overwhelming majority of warfare took place immediately after the colonial period, a phenomenon that happens everywhere on Earth.

Worked all over Asia. China is less sexist (you have women advancing in technical professions and even in positions of leadership) and less homophobic (they don’t love gays but it’s a bit more laissez-faire) than Korea or Japan. Taiwan is China with Japanese manners: best of both worlds. I like both, but I trust Chinese people slightly more than the Japanese.