Is this the definitive crisis of our generation?

I would say it's at least up there. Nothing else has made the entire world come to a screeching halt like this that I can think of.

No Rose: we'll think of it as having been a good chance to catch up on re-runs of Orange is the New Black.

I've seen the struggle for civil rights fail, the ERA go down in flames, mass killings of school children, MLK assassinated, riots, wars for profit, mothers torn from children by our own government, and now disease.....

I'd think its an end to ever having any hope of improvement, if nothing else. Color me jaded. Maybe I'll just ask Rand Paul to lick my face.

It’s up there with 9/11, the moon landings, the JFK assassination and Watergate.

the moon landings were a crisis, R4?

[quote]Is this the definitive crisis of our generation?

If it's not, boy are you guys fucked!

In twenty years, climate change will make this look like a bout of measels.

It's definitely up there with when Richard Madden was photographed walking down the street with a gay man.

That's just the thing, R7....no one knows why this virus jumped species. We've got seemingly healthy people getting sick from things that were never an issue before; things proliferating under new, warmer, wetter conditions. Winters used to kill off ticks up in the mountains. Now we have warnings for three different species.

Hold onto your hats, people. This is only the beginning.

It has to be - to say this is unprecedented is being mild.

I predict that they're going to have those fever scanners now at the airport as part of screening. Flying when you're sick will not be an option anymore.

I hope so, OP. I hope this is it and nothing worse happens.

9/11 was almost 20 years ago, so this is next generation. I think the financial repercussions will be greater than the 2008 Great Recession. It's a one-two punch and things will be dark for a long time.

Not if in the next 10-20 years something bigger comes along. Or if we all die from this one

I imagine it would be for people who have the memories and historical knowledge of overly boiled turnips.

9/11 was nothing compared to this. This is a global pandemic causing unprecedented changes to life across the globe. 9/11 was a small plane accident in comparison.

Can all the world leaders call up China and say - Hey China, can we talk when you have a sec?

They need to insist on health and food standards - and a prevention campaign to stop eating all these exotic animals. It can be done - pretty easily actually.

If not, they need to impose some serious sanctions or other incentives to clean up their act.

No. This will pass. Hopefully a training for the much worse virus that will come in the next 20-30 years. Compared to HIV, I think this is innocuous - it affects a wider population but mainly kills the elderly (average age in Italy 79.5). Hypercapitalism and it’s side effects, the elimination of jobs via technology and the effect of the internet on political systems (ex., the end of journalism and the ability to manipulate information and votes) are much more impactful.

R14, did you just learn about 9/11 in school? Sounds like it.

I dunno, R16. If 1-2% of the population (and mostly older, retired people) were suddenly raptured, the ongoing effects would not be that great. But things being shut down like this is unprecedented. The impact will be felt for a while.

They're not being suddenly raptured, they're clogging hospitals, or at least they will if it gets to 1% of the population. It would be pandemonium to have that many people sick and dying at once.

R17 No. I was in my mid 20s when 9/11 happened. You're being entirely US-centric if you think 9/11 was bigger than this. 9/11 didn't have the global impact this pandemic is having. You can say it was deeply traumatic for the American people, and I don't doubt it was, but coronavirus is already having a bigger impact on the everyday lives of billions of people.

worse than 9/11

Uh, that was my point, R19.

- R18

R19 - 1% is the death rate. 20% will need hospitalization. So if 25% of Americans get the virus, and 20% need hospitalization, then we're looking almost 17 million hospital beds needed.

We currently have a little over 900,000 hospital beds in the entire US.

Let's hope the isolation works. I thought this week was supposed to be the bad week, now they're saying it won't peak for another 2-3 weeks???!!!

R17 9/11 was big thing only for you Americans, not the rest of us

I think it depends whether historians will look back to this event as huge catalyst to new rounds of government control and limited personal freedoms.

If we enact laws, as we did after 9/11 and the Patriot Act, this round could wind up being devastating. Given the international spread of the virus, do you think there won't be a crackdown on undocumented immigration? Do you think they won't try to enact policies to restrict travel and require testing for illnesses? We saw with HIV the wide acceptance of travel restrictions. How much will people cheer to limit travel of potentially sick people. In turn, required medical testing has the potential to expand beyond the original intent, just like the RICO laws did.

Even now, California is technically under martial law under the legislation they just passed. They just not calling it that, nor are they enforcing the most draconian, but now legal, restrictions and penalties.

It could be. It's almost as bad as when she didn't win the Oscar!

[quote] 9/11 didn't have the global impact this pandemic is having.

It’s not as if a couple of decades-long wars were the result.

Those decades-long wars don't directly affect 95% of the world

AIDS was worse.

[quote]I've seen the struggle for civil rights fail,

Bullshit, we had a black president in a country where blacks are less than 14% of the population.

If you're gonna have an agenda, at least make it accurate

R14 semantics perhaps, but 9/11 was not a "plane accident".

R27 Those decades-long wars, however awful for those involved, are localised. This affects every country on the planet and many, many more will die than died on 9/11. I'd even say more Americans will die from this than died in 9/11.

I think this is serious but so far I also thing it's overblown. I don't mind the economic cost, but at the moment it's difficult to predict that in 6 months this will have killed millions, for example.

R31 I know it wasn't. I said in comparison it makes it look like "a small plane accident".

The point I've tried to make is that people are comparing this pandemic to 9/11 and they are completely incomparable. Americans may compare everything to 9/11 as it was such a big thing for them, but the reality is that it was localised and "only" a few thousands died. You can get all emotional about the thought of 9/11, and I understand that, but 9/11 didn't have the far-reaching effects of coronavirus. 9/11 didn't even put American cities on lockdown, never mind all the hundreds of millions of people in Western Europe, the 1.3 billion people in India etc etc.

Ask the billions of people across the globe which was worse for them - coronavirus, which has affected every country on Earth and has billions of people confined to their homes? Or 9/11 that only substantially affected the American people?

I'm not American-bashing here. I truly think you have much worse to come and it'll make 9/11 look small in comparison.

You can only hope this is the definitive crisis. This is a pain in the neck - heartbreaking for families losing loved ones - financially scary - but hopefully you have a roof over your head and food in your pantry and a Netflix subscription. There are 100 things that are far, far worse - a nuclear war comes to mind. Say a prayer and count your blessings - this too shall pass.

[quote] but the reality is that it was localised

The ramifications of 9/11 were absolutely not localized. The fallout from that event had huge geopolitical consequences in the Middle East as well, as yes, Europe -- changes in security and foreign policy, radicalization of a huge portion of a population, terrorism, the 'wars' on terrorism, instability in the middle east leading to a refugee crisis.

R36 No-one's talking about ramifications. We can't compare ramifications as we're still in the early days of this crisis. 9/11 - the hijacked planes and what happened on that day, while huge for the American people, was still a localised event with "only" a few thousand deaths. It might have directly affected the entire population of NYC and other cities but we're still only talking millions.

You can't compare that to coronavirus which is already directly affecting billions, again, on a scale that 9/11 never did. 9/11 didn't directly affect billions of people. I don't disagree that 9/11 had long-term consequences but it didn't have the direct, immediate global consequences coronavirus is already having.

What R15 said.

OP is very optimistic that he will survive this to look back on it in 10 or 20 years.

From what I can see in NY old people who get it don’t stand a chance of surviving it but a lot of young and middle aged people with no health issues are succumbing.

AIDS

The ticking time bomb is all those ridiculously irresponsible people who took the opportunity to leave NYC to go to their second homes thus bringing COVID to brand new areas.

R41 and when they come back to NY they are required to quarantine for 14 days. I hope people can social shame them into complying and reporting them when they don’t.

Gee, when I think of all the crises I've lived through. But, yeah. I think for anyone under twenty, this will be a definitive crisis. I can compare this to the shock and horror of living through 9/11 in NYC. The weeks after were just a bizarre series of revelations about the hijackers, then came the anthrax scares. The terror of that day didn't just end for me and stretched out for months afterwards so I had to leave NYC at a time when things were going well. But, yeah, this is sort of a mild existential terror compared to 9/11.

Cities WERE locked down after 9/11. NYC and, I assume, DC. Shorter duration but a much tighter lockdown.

The answer to OP’s question may become clear in the fullness of time. I could imagine this time of pestilence becoming the crisis of a generation.

The answer to OP’s question may become clear in the fullness of time. I could imagine this time of pestilence becoming the crisis of a generation.

You just wanted to use the word pestilence again.

No, it won't be. This is blown out of proportion. The prediction of millions dying is totally exaggerated.

R44 Right. But this time there are 1.3 billion people locked down in India, hundreds of millions were locked down in China. Hundreds of millions are locked down in Europe. That's a much, much bigger deal than NYC, which is ALSO locked down this time.

How can you people not realise the enormity of this situation? It's all happening at the same time across the entire planet. We're not talking about far-reaching consequences in the future, we're talking NOW and it's still only the beginning of it. Please get over your 9/11 emotional baggage and realise how fucking serious this all is. Perhaps if you and your President weren't so hung up on 9/11 you'd have been able to look at this situation with the clarity it deserves and you'd be better prepared. Navel-gazing seems to be in your DNA.

It is as big as WW2, Or any world war. It will play out to be an enormous disaster.

It has the potential to kill more people than WWII. It has an infection ratio of 1:3 which means when one person infects three others, within ten stages, 59,000 people are infected. COVID is more highly contagious than any flu virus we've known. That's why this one is so serious. It's not just "flu".

R50, my bf’s 92-year old mother lived through The Blitz in WW2. I spoke to her the other night to see how she is doing and she said she survived WW2, she can adjust to this.

Your generation?

Sure.

Forced to sit at home, sleep late, stay up late and play video games while bitching about how hard life is while other people do the real work.

It's called "no change, no problem."

The Kardashians remain this generation’s definitive crisis.

R53 Must be one of those Heroic Boomers or Xers who lived through the Depression and WWII and stormed the beaches of Normandy to liberate the free world.

Oh wait!

This was a crisis we could see coming, especially those of us in the United States since we had more time. 9/11 was a complete and utter shock; the United States was sent in a complete tailspin. 9/11 made many people, especially Americans, question faith in humanity for many months after.

Neither of these are the definitive crisis of my life. The Recession, especially in year 2009, definitely shaped me the most. I didn't have a job for almost two years and I was absolutely miserable in every aspect of my life. Unlike this, there was no horizon easily visible. People need to put this in perspective.

Not to add on fears, but...China is sitting on a huge amount of capital. Supposedly, they're past the curve. With decimated countries around the world, could they not sweep in and buy up a lot of shit for pennies on the dollar?

Or - will NATO countries be so taxed out we can't step in when Russia takes over Ukraine and all the former satellite countries again? Or if China invades Taiwan?

Or, on the sunny side, this is a 2 month blip and we'll be back to normal by June. That's what I'm hoping for - June normalcy.

Yes, OP, and how you act during the crises defines you, too.

Pestilence

Not if the flu of 1918-19, which, until recently, was largely lost to history is any lesson.

This doesn’t feel as bad or scary as 9-11. This will pass in a month or two, and the economy will rebound.

i mean it just like 9-11, some people coughed up some things

Too early to tell how much psychological and economic damage this has caused. Summer is ruined for the travel and tourism industry. Analysts for the industry estimate 6 million jobs will be lost. Rumors are Disney has pushed the reopening date for their parks and resorts to some time in "mid-May" but probably later.

My master plan of stocking up in February has been foiled as I still have tons of chips but have run out of dip.

Looking back, this will be viewed as a mass hysteria..... "Really old people are dying. News at 11."

R65, There have been about 1.3 million Americans who have died in war, since the revolution. This is high because we fought ourselves during the Civil War and the Indian Wars. An estimated 675,000 Americans died of influenza during the 1918 pandemic.

This Coronavirus could kill, at 1% to 4%; between 3.3 and 13.2 million. It could hospitalize, perhaps, 20%, or 66 million Americans. There is no comparison to our wars or the early 20th century flu.

Just as a matter of money, it will be far more costly for these people to die, many of them the most experienced in their fields, than we are losing by shutting down the economy for a number of weeks or even months. So, no, this is not mass hysteria. It is under appreciated.

(I’m glad I saved the above when I posted it before. I imagine I’ll wind-up posting it in response to other’s comments many times for a few more weeks, before such comments stop.)

The Governor of Florida has refused to issue any kind of lock-down. Can we shame him into sending all his respirators to NY, CA, MA, and elsewhere where the moment is being taken seriously?

Sometimes I just want to build a wall.

Century.

R65 You stupid fuck. Why don’t you pull your trumpist head out of your asshole and read and observe. Look at videos of hospitals in Italy and Spain. Read about front line workers who have died. They’re not all old people. They’re not all middle aged people. They’re all ages, including young kids. You fucking selfish piece if shite. Fuck you.

The way AIDS was for the gay community, the way 9/11 was for those who had a close family member die, the way Katrina was for people in New Orleans, that’s how COVID-19 is for EVERYONE. Look how it’s affecting the most basic aspects of our lives and freedoms — in ways that until now we never even thought about Precisely because THATs how basic they are. There has never been anything that has permeated every aspect of our lives in such a way.

Heck, even the two World Wars it’s not as if everyone went off to fight — just men of a certain age. This is everyone.

Which generation?

And what a stupid fucking question—who knows what's coming in 1, 5, 10 years?

WHO CARES

No. The war we're going to have with China soon will be the definitive crisis of this generation.

R15 Sure, can world's leaders also call US and say can everyone please hand over their guns? Sure, things like that can totally happen. These sick fucks believe they are getting some extra health/strength by eating lions, elephant and rhino horns and what not. These are the same people that torture dogs on the streets and then skin them and boil them alive cause they think they taste better then. How do you talk sense into a sick fuck with no moral compass?

I'm in my late 50s.

I don't think people agree to which generation they belong to. I don't think each generation has a consensus on what is a "definitive crisis"

Personally I doubt this will be THE definitive crisis for "my generation" because AIDS was just too grisly for me and my friends. AIDS was usually a death sentence, for 15 years of the epidemic. I was young, I thing it was even worse for men 10 years older. It started to hit my "generation" in the late 80s. Friends, colleagues, boyfriends, lovers, occasionally family - long, horrible illnesses than death. And the fucking STIGMA and the fight for treatment and rights.

So that's my take.

For the general population, COVID-19 might be it.

Plus the fear, during AIDS. And the myriad safe sex rules.

[quote] How do you talk sense into a sick fuck with no moral compass?

I think Democrats are still trying to figure that out in regards to the entire Trump-voting populace.

R3 is this the ERA?

No, we're no longer trying to figure out why 37% of the voting populace is willing to accept the risk just to prove some inane point. What I'm trying to do, and I can only speak for this libtard, is have enough concern for them as fellow Americans as they give me dirty looks in the grocery store for keeping my distance. I'll admit I'm struggling to show them the human decency and compassion they clearly need and hate.

Whatever gods they pray to better be listening. I'm running out of patience fast and if I get sick, well what's to stop me from a visit to the grocery store again?

"This will pass in a month or two, and the economy will rebound."

No. The economy will not rebound until well into Joe Biden's presidency. Coronavirus, under control in Dec, will always be with us.