New Biography of Natalie Wood Confirms DataLounge's Most Cherished Rumors

I believe it. He looks quite comfortable on the back of a man.

Interesting article.

Somebody's going down. And not the way he used to...

Why did she get back with him if she caught him( RJ) presenting hole to another man in 1961? She should never have allowed him back in her life much less been on that boat with him. Maybe they got in an argument, she popped off she was going to tell the press about his affinity for homeless Mexican boy trade. Prompting him to grab oar from the dingy and off her ! Then tosses her overboard and makes a himself a slow gin dirty martini before taking a doxepin and heading ta bed.

So.....Walken saw her get pushed??

The author was no more able to confirm those age old rumors (that predate datalounge) than anyone else.

Who's RJ?

Rick James

Robert (Downy) Jr.

RJ Reynolds

RJ is going to have Alzheimer's and be in a wheelchair and Lana will still be harrassing him about all this.

Raymond James Financial Advisors

That Vanity Fair article is not only poorly written... it reads like a 1950’s gossip magazine. Worse actually, because it accuses an innocent man of murder.

Look, all the rumors the writer is “reporting” are the same rumors and innuendo that have been floated for 40 years. And as far as discovering some shocking new information in the police files... that’s absurd. The police inquiry into Wood’s death has been intense. The case has been fully reopened at least two times with hundreds of professional investigators involved. So are we to believe that a hack writer in a dying magazine like Vanity Fair has made discoveries that somehow eluded the police for two decades? C’mon.

It is probable that Wagner is bi-sexual and had an affair that broke up their first marriage. It’s also probable that, years later and with more knowledge of human sexuality, the two had a second, better relationship. That night on the boat (a small boat; not really a yacht, btw) was an alcohol and drug infused mess. Wagner has a long history of drinking. But to blame him (and by extension Christopher Walken and the boat’s so-called captain) for not immediately beginning a search does not take in to account the drugged out state Wagner was in. He probably could not stand up at that point. And then for the VF writer to insinuate, if not outright claim, that Wagner murdered Wood, is outrageous. Accidents happen. People are imperfect.

Suzanne Finstad is just another hack to jump on the money-making Wagner/Wood bandwagon. She should be ashamed of herself.

Does RJ's wife, Jill St. John, know that he was caught in bed with another man? They've been married since 1990.

R13= RJ

R13 is correct. This is just a rehash of old rumors.

Sad what's happened to Vanity Fair.

I saw 'Splendour' docked at Ala Wai Boat Harbor in Honolulu. It was a bit of an old skow. May still be there if it didn't sink from old age. My oldest sister would go to Lana and Natalie's house to hang out. I think they went to high school together.

R13 is probably not Wagner, but clearly one of his hanging-on publicists, presuming he's innocent. Might want to read the detailed article again...

Also note it was published a month ago and not a single lawsuit since then...

[quote] [R13] is probably not Wagner, but clearly one of his hanging-on publicists, presuming he's innocent. Might want to read the detailed article again... Also note it was published a month ago and not a single lawsuit since then...

Maybe it’s Henry Wilson back from the dead to tell us what is obvious. Same old rumors rehashed.

"As I plumbed her past, Natalie’s demons and their origins revealed themselves to me as if released from a genie’s lamp. " Wow that is some bad writing. Wagner isn't powerful so why hasn't he been arrested if any of this was true?

R15/R19, Just because I say it’s a badly written article and that I think Wagner is not guilty of MURDER, you think I’m a paid shill or PR hack? Fuck you both. I’m entitled to my opinion. And I’m a long time DL poster, you assholes, not “clearly one of his hanging-on publicists.” Jesus Christ, what idiots. Just go check my DL history if you need proof.

And, do either of you braintrusts REALLY think Wagner or his PR people give a flying fuck about what anybody on this obscure little website thinks? Wow, talk about self importance!

If I ever get into trouble, I hope neither of you are on my jury.

Sheesh, R22, you actually took it seriously? Time for your meds.

R22, Finstad is a better writer than you are. And so is everyone who has ever written for Vanity Fair. You might want to ease up on the condescion, you're just an old queen on the datalounge

I agree R24. It's really bizarre how someone can get so pissed off at an author who states her sources, along with a publisher who no doubt had to run it all by the legal dept, yet he's still so infatuated with Wagner he can't admit it might even be possible.

And R22, no one said you're not entitled to your opinion. Not sure where that's coming from, but you might want to bring it up at your next session.

Hey, I know. Let’s get a group of old queens together, go over to RJ’s house and lynch him. It’ll be fun!

It's possible, but as a woman who has experience with men (straight and bi), I can see Wagner dismissing Natalie and thinking she is hysterical or hormonal. At that point he decides to tuck in for the evening with a nightcap (and possibly Christopher Walken...lol.)

[quote] [R22], Finstad is a better writer than you are. And so is everyone who has ever written for Vanity Fair. You might want to ease up on the condescion, you're just an old queen on the datalounge

[quote] agree [R24]. It's really bizarre how someone can get so pissed off at an author who states her sources, along with a publisher who no doubt had to run it all by the legal dept, yet he's still so infatuated with Wagner he can't admit it might even be possible.

She’s re-releasing a book she wrote 20 yrs ago based upon her new speculation regarding Wood’s head wounds and speculation regarding marks on her thighs. None of which is worth republishing her book.

She may be a great writer. However, she sounds ridiculous in this article.

Except I think it was more than a nightcap, R27. Wagner was drunk as a skunk and the captain was handing out Ludes to everybody. Nobody was rational for hours. If I was Natalie, I’d have gotten off that boat too... not easy to do, alone and in the dark.

He did it but nothing will ever come of it.

So is Christopher Walken in on this supposed murder coverup too? He was there the whole time.

Yes R31. Read the article.

R24. Any writer who isn’t desperate to make a buck would never write for Vanity Fair, post Greyson Carter. Once GC left VF, the magazine fell apart. Condé Nast couldn’t care less about it, as outlined in the link. I’m so disappointed as I used to look forward to seeing it the mail each month. Watch for it to go belly up in a year or less.

And Finstad’s books are almost all celebrity tell-all’s. She’s a second-rate Kitty Kelley. Her writing is flowery and always on the edge of defamation. Of course, she claims to be a lawyer so she knows just how hard to push an allegation so she can’t be sued.

Meant... Greyson Carter.

Damned spell check. GREYDON.

"Any writer who isn’t desperate to make a buck would never write for Vanity Fair, post Greyson Carter. Once GC left VF, the magazine fell apart"

It was on its last legs before Carter left.

RJ is Ray J, R7.

Once the police find the sex tape, all will be revealed.

[quote] And Finstad’s books are almost all celebrity tell-all’s. She’s a second-rate Kitty Kelley. Her writing is flowery and always on the edge of defamation. Of course, she claims to be a lawyer so she knows just how hard to push an allegation so she can’t be sued.

She sounds like a college student who is attempting to bullshit their way to their minimum word requirement, thesaurus in had. She sounds ridiculous.

Like most dataloungers are capable of writing anything better.

R39 = Suzanne Finstad

r40 = someone who never come within striking distance of having a bestselling book

R41 = Yup, it’s you Suzanne. Can tell by your nasty, snarky, bitter writing style.

My mom had dinner with Natalie and Robert Wagner in the 1960s, and she said that Natalie was drunk and verbally abusive to Wagner, insulting his manhood, etc., but he just sat there calmly and took it. My mom was humiliated for him and never liked Natalie after that.

r42 = obese frau with 100 cats who hasn't written anything beyond a grocery list. Probably had a crush on Wagner in Hart to Hart and is pissed that someone would write bad things about him.

Still trying to cash in on Natalie Wood almost 40 years later...……..$$$$$$$$$$

R44 = the guy who would gladly march Robert Wagner to the electric chair for murder based on a scurrilous magazine article... even though 40 years of police investigations have turned up nothing.

r46 = LOL. I don't even believe in the death penalty. Maybe you're a Republican red stater but I'm not.

R47, Suzanne, I would have thought a famous writer like you would understand a metaphor.

Did he ever hit with his crutch?

Male California Democrat - drag queen from Fresno

I can't remember the last time anyone was this concerned about Robert Wagner. 1986?

Ok, R50... You win. You’re smarter than me. You’re a better writer than me. You really got me good with that “Drag Queen from Fresno” remark. I’m crushed.

On a serious note, I don’t like when celebrity-hunting writers make accusations of people to make money. Simple as that.

The bickering on this thread is hilarious— isn’t the purpose to share our opinions here? If not here, then where? Having a conversation requires back and forth. It’s called exchanging ideas.

Plus, the queen who got his feathers in a ruffle is simply someone who has maybe lived and experienced more than any of us? The older you get, the more aware you are of your own mortality and vulnerability, ergo you light up seeing say, poor journalism because you a) value quality journalism, even in a shitrag like VF, and you b) put yourself in the shoes of RJ and imagine how helpless you would feel as an innocent person being wrongly accused. Publicly. How do you defend yourself? If one is passionate then this kind of bullshit can easily get your knickers in a bunch because it really is unethical and irresponsible and the author should be crushed like a roach for this article. I didn’t even fucking read it, I don’t need to because I know all about it already, and the author is wrong to do this, period, end of.

All this to say, RJ at a bare minimum is guilty of hearing her cries for help and doing nothing though she left the boat of her own freewill. He was wasted which = manslaughter. He heard her and did nothing to help. Neither did Captain. RJ was stupified, and you are accountable for your choices regardless of your sobriety. He should have been charged with that count at *least*, though I’m not sure on the legal “degree” of this sort of negligence. It is manlaughter and a failure to.....do something?

Interesting point to ponder. Let’s say you are walking a city street with your lover, fighting. Horrible fight, you hate his guts and plan to throw him out when you get back home. An attacker suddenly jumps out and starts stabbing your lover all over his body, face, hands. While this is happening, you take a seat on the nearest stoop, light a cigarette and just watch this murder happen. Maybe you even fist bump killer when he’s done. Has any law been broken? I’m sincerely asking this, asking the Legal Dept here,

Celebrity cases are notorious for their dynamics in criminal cases, in that sense, this case is far from unique,

What is super weird is this thread had NO posts for a month but now lights up? It’s because we are all literally dying a slo-mo death from the exquisite boredom of our existence right now.

I've just read the VANITY FAIR article. Interesting that, with all the trauma in Natalie Wood's life that the author mentions, she did not mention Natalie supposedly having been raped by Kirk Douglas. What is the current status of that rumor's credibility?

Personally, I appreciate the repartee of two intelligent DataLoungers going at each other. That’s why I’m here. They know they’re entertaining us all.

Suzanne Finstad’s next bestseller: “Yes, I Raped Natalie - The Real Kirk Douglas Story”.

In bookstores soon and an excerpts to be published in the exciting and new Vanity Fair!

r51, the best you could come up with is "You're Suzanne Finstad"

Sad

You’re drunk, R56. Go to bed.

r57, look who's talking. Shouldn't you be watching your Hart to Hart DVDs?

[quote]she did not mention Natalie supposedly having been raped by Kirk Douglas.

No, but she did, however, mention 15 year-old Natalie had been been pimped out to Sinatra.

Hadn’t heard that one before.

Depraved indifference?

llll

....

....

R.J.

You make a strong point r54.

Of course, this being arts minutia-obsessed DL, no one can come up with the most famous RJ of them all.

Richard Jewell

Authoress writes exhaustingly padded garbage to make a few shekels. Sad.

[quote]Interesting point to ponder. Let’s say you are walking a city street with your lover, fighting. Horrible fight, you hate his guts and plan to throw him out when you get back home. An attacker suddenly jumps out and starts stabbing your lover all over his body, face, hands. While this is happening, you take a seat on the nearest stoop, light a cigarette and just watch this murder happen. Maybe you even fist bump killer when he’s done. Has any law been broken? I’m sincerely asking this, asking the Legal Dept here,

No, if you fail to come to the aid of your lover, you have not broken the law. HOWEVER, if in that scenario you replace the word lover with the word husband, everything changes. Spouses owe each a duty of care, as do parents to their children and health care providers in certain situations (I think they must be specifically contractually bound, but it's been a long time since I studied this issue). So, if you saw your wife stabbed, knew she was seriously injured and failed to call for assistance, you could face criminal prosecution.

r69, you are awesome! Thank you for your input on that, I love learning about law, super interesting to ponder what you shared.

On a different note, I’m watching WH presser and it makes me want to die. A clown surrounded by idiots.

Carry on.

The "new biography" doesn't "confirm" a thing. It's the same old unsubstantiated gossip. Same old tired gossip.

Same old tired gossip, but a girl’s gotta make money.

“If you want drama, marry an actress.”

R28, Her biography of Warren Beatty found its way to the dollar table in bookstores in record time.

Didn't Lana say that she would reveal who raped Natalie once he was dead? The fact that Kirk was the only person who fit the description who was still alive bolstered the claims of those who thought it was him. This book is being re-released, Kirk is dead and he's not being accused? If he raped her then come forward and say it directly. If he didn't then it's pretty shitty to leave that accusation out there all these years without addressing it and clearing his name.

Pay attention at around 19:25

Talk about skirting legal issues, R76. If I was Kirk (and not guilty, of course) I’d sue that production for slander. Even if he was guilty, it’s all hearsay at this point, so he should have sued anyhow.

The only time you can change a man is when he's a baby.

R76 Clever way to avoid a lawsuit by not saying the rapist's name while flashing pictures of the Kirk Douglas Theater.

Not really clever. In fact, extremely obvious. Kirk, guilty or not, could have sued the producers and won.

But in Hollywood, like on Datalounge, sometimes ignoring an accusation is better than responding. The matter goes away quicker.

Wagner is probably bisexual and so what? Wood died in a tragic accident that is really a cautionary tale. They had all been drinking heavily starting at least at lunch on Catalina and into the night. Sure there may have been fights and of course blackouts. Wood stumbling around perhaps in a drunken or blackout storm while her husband and Walken are passed out... unable to hear or help her- drinking recklessly on the water in particular has its risks.

Charlie, thanks for your common sense take on this. I completely agree.

Why won't RJ answer questions if he has nothing to hide if nothing else to clear his name?

R83, Wagner has answered all the questions the police asked in numerous interrogations, texts of which are available to the public. He has no obligation to constantly respond to the general public’s nonstop questions. In fact, if I recall correctly, after the last inquiry was closed he announced he would no longer speak to anyone about it.

Good for him.

On a lighter note, why didn't she take a shower the night she drowned? She was going to wash-up on shore later.

R85 *bidda-boom*

They used to say "If Elizabeth won't, Natalie Wood." I don't think they can prove he murdered her in cold blood and that's why they've never pursued the case.

They used to say "If Elizabeth won't, Natalie Wood." I don't think they can prove he murdered her in cold blood and that's why they've never pursued the case.

I wonder if Natasha and Courtney have secretly gotten a tearful confession from RJ and just decided to forgive him because it was an alcohol fueled accident with no malice aforethought.

What supposedly caused the argument with RJ before our bruised and battered Natasha slipped into the 'dark water 'to meet her prophesied doom...

[quote]A law enforcement insider told Radar Online that Christopher Walken met with detectives after the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Dept. reopened Natalie Wood’s case in 2011, but that his side of the argument was a bit different than Wagner’s. The insider alleges Walken told investigators that Robert Wagner flew into a jealous rage about his relationship with Natalie and went so far as to accuse Wood and Walken of having an affair. Christopher Walken also confirmed that he left the cabin after Robert Wagner smashed a bottle of wine on the table on the night of November 28, 1981, and that he went to sleep.

[quote]But Davern also gave detailed information about the argument, saying it started out as a spat between Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood. Davern told police that Wagner and Wood were arguing about how much she was away from home due to her movie career and how much he missed her. Walken reportedly walked in on the spat and began supporting Natalie’s views. Davern alleged that Walken noted how upset Wagner was getting and that he briefly walked out to the deck.

R82 No. The fact Wagner wouldn't search afterwards? Prevented the Capitan from looking? A woman was heard screaming from another boat? Her bruises showing she tried to get back in?

Wagner may have been remorseful, may of lost his temper, may not have meant for her to die, may not have been thinking clearly because of intoxication, but the evidence and his behavior in the aftermath points to his, at the very least, negligence and indirect responsibility for her death.

The biggest evidence for me is that he refused to do anything to find her in the aftermath.

Did they use DNA evidence back then?

How would DNA evidence come into play in this case?

This case is a mystery. Like the case of the missing stimulus checks.

Wow, Robert Wagner really liked his cock!

R93 they could look for signs of force.

Well, I for one had never heard that Walken told the investigators he heard RJ push her.

So the police investigators are lying about what Walken told them?

That Captain could have intervened earlier. Those men really failed her.

Another recounting of events...

RJ had been guilty of an earlier crime, bombing at the box office in 1954. Turned out he was no Prince Valiant onscreen or in real life.

////

The butler did it?

So which one of Henry Willson's other closeted "pretty boys" was fucking RJ when Natalie walked in on them in 1962?

[quote] Lana Wood remembers she was 15 when her sister turned up at the house crying and bleeding. "I had never seen her that bad. I was asked to leave the room and that something bad happened and that Natalie was leaving R.J," she said. "It wasn't until later that she said she caught him with someone. And that someone was another man."

[quote] Wagner has not commented on Lana Wood's allegations of a gay love affair.

Walken was Wood's invited guest for the weekend. At the time, they were shooting her last film, Brainstorm.

For years the rumor circulated that Wagner walked in on Walken and Wood together and that started the vicious fight that lead to her demise, But as an eldergay who had friends in the industry, and knew well the rumors that both Wagner and Walken were bi, I've always wondered if it wasn't Wood who walked in on Wagner and Walken and screamed something like "You BITCH! You stole my trick AGAIN!" starting the fight.

That would explain all the the silence from the principles and the failure of LE to conduct a serious investigation from the beginning. Everybody would have been paid off to keep the real dirt secret. Gay/bi relationships were not accepted at the time, they were buried.

R75, the rumors about Kirk Douglas go back at least 25 years -- when Suzanne Finstad's book about Natalie was published in 2001, someone on one of our Usenet groups (alt.showbiz.gossip or alt.gossip.celebrity) was able to link to a thread from the 1990s that had already told the story, and speculated it was either Douglas or Burt Lancaster.

The thing is, the book specifically says the rapist was a star in pirate movies. Was it a little misdirection to cover the publisher's ass? Who knows. The story itself has been out there since the 1990s and I would assume even earlier.

Lana has said she was in the car when her mom went to pick Natalie up from that producer's office and knows who it was, but I'm not sure she ever said she would confirm it. There must be multiple people who know who it is: the people Finstad talked to, Lana, some of Natalie's friends and probably RJ, probably at least an editor who worked with Finstad, etc.

My personal speculation is that no one has come forward to say who it is because it IS Kirk Douglas, and Douglas's family, especially Michael, would sue anyone who said so.

If it was some long-forgotten producer or some actor who died decades ago, it would have been revealed by now, surely.

^ i meant to include above that at the time of Natalie's death, she had only shot two thirds to three quarters of her scenes for Brainstorm. Some essential scenes hadn't been filmed. The insurers wanted to just pay everybody off and shut the film down but producer/director Douglas Trumbull (effects supervisor on 2001, Close Encounters, Silent Running and Blade Runner among many others), fought them and, using doubles and an extensive script rewrite, managed to complete the film.

Since Finstead and Lana both participated in the doc at R76 which all but confirms that it was Douglas perhaps they feel they did what they could to name him and maybe they're satisfied with that as a way of getting it out there without saying it directly and creating a legal mess for themselves.

I'm sure the legal department at Finstead's publisher wouldn't allow her to name Douglas even if he is dead now but the producers of the doc felt they could skate that thin line with a little creative use of B-roll. I don't think it's a coincidence that Finstead wanted her book re-released with "new information" so soon after Douglas died. She's probably hoping people will give it a look to see if it's been updated with new details about the rape.

It didn't occur to me that Lana and Suzanne would have known the producers planned to use that editing trick that showed Kirk Douglas Theater, r107, but maybe they did.

Finstad blabbed in her book about Priscilla Presley that she (as a young teen) had slept with a friend of Elvis's in exchange for a chance to meet him, and even after Priscilla sued the friend of Elvis's who made the claim and won, Finstad didn't retract it. She doubled down. So I do wonder if she'll name Kirk now, she seems pretty fearless.

[quote]someone on one of our Usenet groups (alt.showbiz.gossip or alt.gossip.celebrity) was able to link to a thread from the 1990s that had already told the story, and speculated it was either Douglas or Burt Lancaster

R105 Usenet! Impressive.

Two things about this case have always intrigued me...

— The Splendor, the boat the group was on, is actually quite small. IIRC, there was one little stateroom (for RJ and Natalie), another tiny cabin with a cot for the “Captain” and an aft salon area with a convertible sofa for Walken. How did so much supposed violence happen in this tiny space?. Also, the wall of the back deck was very wide and would have been difficult for Natalie to crawl over at night, easily resulting in cuts and bruises. If she fell headfirst onto the rear swim platform, that alone could have killed her.

— The moorings off of Avalon are all extremely close together. A typical night will have as many as 100 boats all crammed into a small area. One witness supposedly heard a scream during the night. Boat owners look out for one another. I can’t believe someone didn’t investigate a scream by at least shining a flashlight over to other boats just a few feet apart.

I taught Bobby how to blow the big ones.