It’s “Another World”

Janice and Rachel in the pool in Majorca (sp?). Rachel rescues Mac from her poisoning.

Rachel being held in the boathouse by Svend.

Anne Heche.

OMG r1 I remember all of that, except for Anne Heche, so clearly! I’d almost forgotten about. Her - she played twins and one had HIV or possibly even AIDS, right?

Wasn’t the pool with Rachel, Mac and Janice Frame in St. Thomas or St. Croix?

And they finally located Rachel in the boathouse because of the background noises that were coming though on a phone call or recording of one. What were those sounds?

R2, Ellen Wheeler played twins on All My Children, one of which had HIV/AIDS. Ellen has previously played Marly/Vicky on AW, and Anne Heche later took over those roles.

I miss AMC. Let's talk about that instead.

In between Ellen Wheeler and Anne Heche, there was Rhonda Lewin, who played Vicky for the last few months of 1986. Here's her full full day, with her introduction at 2:03.

Every scene with Beverlee McKinsey

We did already have an AW/ATWT/GL thread, OP....did you miss it?

Linda Dano aka Felicia on a drunken bender, now THAT was Soap acting at its finest!

It's a shame that Daddy's photo above had to be....well, diminished by Rachel.

Such a handsome man, standing beside a working class hussy who looks like a Margaret Keane painting come to life! I mean, really.

I remember all of Iris' chic NYC friends coming to middle America to lounge around Iris' above ground pool.

Ugh - that above ground pool! Tacky. And pale pasty Dennis and Jamie in swim trunks.

Harding Lemay's writing was hit or miss. The show lost its homey theme under him. He made Pat an alcoholic to let Beverly Penberthy show her range and she nailed it. She showed up drunk at a family dinner and berated her parents and siblings. I think it was at Tall Boys.

Harding Lemay was GREAT.

Did they feed Vicky oats for those horse toofers?

Former Elizabeth Arden model Constance Ford as Rachel’s mother Ada Hobson — sitting in her kitchen talking on the phone.

Connie was having a great career playing supporting and character parts in film and TV. I believe she wanted to do Broadway and ended up AW as a way to supplement her stage work. I loved her shout to the back of the room performances. I bet she was a hoot and a half. Jackee, when she was on the show, was both in awe and terrified of her.

I like 1990-1995 AW best, though what I've seen of the late 80's on YouTube was pretty good. And I am an unabashed Carl Hutchins stan.

The 1988-1993ish era was pretty good. Even up to 95, I suppose. It was near the end when they started changing writers every 30 seconds that it took a nosedive.

I loved the Lemay years but also a chunk of the early 80s when Felicia, Cass, Cecile and of course, Original Recipe Donna were on.

Who Shot Jake may have been the last great story on the show. I never understood how they made Jake and Vicky a couple after that, talk about twisting the show into pretzels to make a story work.

In the final years, I liked Lilah. I always have a weakness for Blanche Dubois/Maggie the Cat types and she was straight out of Michael Malone's Bourbon Street pilot for Fox. I also liked the way they set up Michael's death. Anna Stuart acted her ass off in those scenes.

And this will probably negate everything else that I've ever said, but I didn't mind Jordan Stark/Amalie. It was very Barnabas Collins, probably wrong for the show, but at that point AW had gone so far from its roots that it just didn't matter to me. I'm a sucker for a love story that transcends time and space.

I didn't like JFP turning the show into an NYPD Blue/ER hybrid, but the show got new sets and PG clearly pumped some additional cash into the production, because it looked damned good. But at least she gave Rachel the final shot in the new opening credits.

I never accepted actress Carmen Duncan as Iris.

I actually think Carmen nailed Iris at a certain point.

The accent was distracting, but once she got into Iris' relationship with Mac and emnity with Rachel, she really did well.

As someone roughly their age at the time, I always saw Dennis and Jamie has a same-sex couple.

The show never recovered from the loss of Pamela Brook as Corrine Seton. She could have been the next Mary Matthews if her relationship with Russ had worked out. I especially loved her flip haircut - five years after it had gone out of style.

I've said it before and will say it again: I could have watched Cecile every day.

Hick from the sticks Molly Ordway dining with Iris Carrington in a fancy French restaurant. Molly is looking at "poisson" on the menu and says, "Poison? Whut's poison?"

R19 Felicia finds her lost daughter Lorna was another highlight of the early 90s period. Alicia Coppola was born to play Linda's daughter!

R25 Was that scene with Beverlee or Carmen?

The irony, of course, is that Beverlee played Molly for a few days about six months before she was cast as Iris.

R27 Molly Ordway (played by Rolanda Mendelle) was Steve Frame's niece. Beverlee was playing Iris at the time, ca. 1976.

Beverly played Emma Ordway, Molly's Mother, not Molly.

[quote] I didn't like JFP turning the show into an NYPD Blue/ER hybrid, but the show got new sets and PG clearly pumped some additional cash into the production, because it looked damned good. But at least she gave Rachel the final shot in the new opening credits.

Under her leadership was the only time the show rose in the ratings actually beating Guiding Light for a week

Also it won both Charles Keating & Anna Holbrook Emmy award

R29 Oooh, you are correct! My deepest apologies.

r4, Cindy had a twin? Was she evil only on briefly?

R32 Cindy's sister Karen was brought on to keep Ellen Wheeler on screen but it didn't play out very well - I don't think she was on AMC for long.

I love these P&G threads, and especially AW- because you all are so classy and respectful (I never, ever watched AW- I was purely OLTL) I did sample GL from 88-89 (It had great characters and background music- it was very OLTL'iish to my 11 year old eyes)

Anyway, I have to add to R30, that JFP's OLTL brought OLTL to a consistent top 3 rating in the demos as well. (For OLTL at that point, in 98-99, was MAJOR)

She did produce a beautiful yet lurid/trashy show, (Felicia Mineh Behr DESPISED it, and said so!)

It was very good yet EXTREMELY plot driven.

Back to AW. I adore these threads.

Yeah but JFP has had clashes with more females actresses on shows than any other producer in soaps

Beverlee McKinsey, Ellen Parker, Kimberly Simms, Kim Zimmer, Robin Strasser, Laura Koffman the list goes on

YES , R35- Absolutely. She sounded like a HORROR and the epitome of a toxic boss, if you were not a "Friend of Jill". Koffman, especially.

Kimberly Simms was HOT AS BALLS!! (NOT a GL viewer, but watched her on occasion then, and especially watch the YouTube videos now)

How did JFP fuck over Simms!!???

We know Strasser is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but if the kind of shit she said JFP did is true, then she was not creating a comfortable atmosphere for the actors.

She was apparently a huge cunt, a la Gloria Monty, and drove her actors/actresses to exhaustion.

I haven't always agree with some of JFP's choices, but she is strong supporter of soap opera and, yes, if you are her friend she will take very good of you. Like I said above, the NYPD Blue/ER hybrid she turned AW into wasn't my cup of tea, but she at least tried something to set it apart from what was happening on the other shows.

[quote]JFP's OLTL brought OLTL to a consistent top 3 rating in the demos as well. (For OLTL at that point, in 98-99, was MAJOR)...([bold]Felicia Minei Behr DESPISED it[/bold], and said so!)

Reason enough for its existence. After the way Minei Behr shit all over Oakdale, she had no right to complain to anyone about anything ever again for the rest of her life.

[quote]It was very good yet EXTREMELY plot driven.

It was nothing but plot.

The introduction of the new theme song by Crystal Gayle and Gary Morris

Marcy Walker also had a falling out with JFP after Jill lured Marcy to the east coast to join Guiding Light.

Marcy said that she was used by JFP when her (Jill's) job was in jeporady, and by bring a big ticket like Marcy Walker, her own contract would get a pick-up by P&G - so after Marcy was brought on, JFP promptly forgot about her and let her languish on the back burner.

I must tell you. OLTL in 98-99 was GOOD TV. Yes, JFP DESTROYED Nora- but it was NOT TO BE MISSED.

It took me many, many years to realize how good OLTL was then....

Back to AW and P&G. I truly love these P&G threads. YOU all are so classy, respectful, and wonderful.

Hmm, R41 - that's interesting. Kind of lines up with the Nancy Curlee interview posted on the Get Out and Volunteer P&G thread. She said Tangie was sort of forced on the writers.

[quote] Yes, JFP DESTROYED Nora- but it was NOT TO BE MISSED.

Actually Hillary B. Smith was happy with what JFP was doing with her character, because it least it was something to do. Where before she was just being a supporting player to Bo

r42 And then in 2000, I would have my way with Llanview.

I remember seeing that Victoria hag on a low tier talk show back then bitching about how she wouldn't sign autographs. I remember thinking, "Bitch, you should be so lucky if one person knows who you are...." She was so put out. And I hated her too earnest acting on that show.

It's Another World, bitches.

Another thing - JFP was EP of Guiding Light when General Hospital decided to bring back Luke & Laura

P&G hauled her JFP in a meeting and asked point blank, what are your plans to battle Luke & Laura (as Guiding Light aired opposite General Hospital) - the P&G people wanted a plan, and if they didn't get one, JFP was out

So for her own survival, JFP came up with Marcy Walker to battle Luke & Laura.

Which was suffering long and miserable death rales at the time, r47. Llanview was not optional at 2:00.

[quote] Which was suffering long and miserable death rales at the time

Another World went from BEATING Guiding Light for one week in the ratings, to being plagued by cancellation notices in 1998

And Guiding Light went from being beaten by Another World for one week, to pushing up to the top five with the Reva Clone Storyline in 1998

[quote]Back to AW and P&G. I truly love these P&G threads. YOU all are so classy, respectful, and wonderful.

Sometimes it seems the fans love their shows more than the people who made them, when you consider that P&G didn't seem to put up much of a fight when NBC pulled the plug on this one, and meanwhile they let the two remaining CBS ones gradually decline. If AW had lasted into the 2000s, it was only a matter of time before it got sent to Peapack.

Well Ellen Wheeler would have been playing the six-inches-taller twin Marley, R51, so maybe in that alternate universe Peapack doesn't happen?

R51 P&G did put up a fight to save Another World - they were actually in discussions with ABC to move the show to their network. But the deal fell apart

There is now discussion to bring AMC back

Which year, r53? Anytime after 1995 was too late.

[quote] Anytime after 1995 was too late.

They brought in JFP that year and they actually raised the ratings to a point where the show beat Guiding Light for one week.

When did Jill leave, r56? Maybe that's the year it got really bad.

Who brought us Sharly? The show was still good then.

[quote] Anytime after 1995 was too late.

Frankly the ratings where still healthy, the show was a victim of a greedy network (NBC) because after James Reilly brought Days of our Lives to number #1 in the 18-34 women demo - NBC saw increased dollars signs if they could get a companion show to DAYS

The network had always wanted a companion to DAYS that would be a good fit - and that is why Another World always seemed to change. Because the network wanted AW to be like Days.

So getting back to NBC, they had dreams of their soaps finished 1-2 in the 18-34 female demo, and so they gave James Reilly a production deal - an added bonus was that NBC would co-own this new show. This has always been a thorn in the side of NBC that they did own DAYS or AW, so they couldn't make money off of it, other than ad revenue.

Once they signed Reilly to that deal, AW days were numbered, no matter how high their ratings would get. Unless they finished 2nd in the female demo, which wouldn't happen that fast

[quote] his has always been a thorn in the side of NBC that they did own DAYS or AW

Sorry it should be " they did NOT own DAYS or AW"

[quote] When did Jill leave

Because she was under increased pressure from NBC to make AW like Days of our Lives (this happened to every EP of Another World)

After a year, she was tired of this and just quit.

r61 So the answer to "when" is 1996? (I gave up watching in the fall of 1995, after having started to watch it again earlier that year.) I did check in every now and then, but Lila, Shane/Bobby Reno, and that sci-fi plot were more than anyone should have to bear.

Have shared this before, but Wyndham goes deep on how P&G handled the show.....well, pretty much for all of the last 20 years of its life, after Lemay left.

NBC gets a lot of blame, some of it rightly so, but PG wanted out of soaps. ABC wanted to keep Edge on the air, PG pulled the plug. NBC tried numerous times to buy AW and PG refused. ABC tried to rescue AW and PG squashed it. And now they sit on content that's rotting away in vaults and don't even attempt to monetize it.

If NBC would have just left (and this goes way back) the Days, The Doctors, and the Another World lineup alone, the latter two would have lasted much longer and the lineup would have rebound at some point. But of course we would have never gotten Santa Barbara which had a much bigger impact on daytime than many realize.

R6 Anne Heche was the best Vicky by far. I loved her right from her first scene. She played Victoria with lots of emotional intelligence. I was surprised years later to find Anne was dealing with so much pain in her life, but many actors who excel at playing emotionally healthy persons are anything but.

r65 Victoria is talking on Iris Carrington’s old phone while in that bubble bath!!

NBC did buy [italic]The Doctors[/italic] from Colgate-Palmolive, but the show still died anyway. That and [italic]Texas[/italic], which was a P&G show, went down together.

r67 I remember Texas, was it a spin-off of Another World? Was Santa Barbara as well an AW spinoff?

No, R68, [italic]Santa Barbara[/italic] wasn't even from P&G. New World produced it, which means Fox ended up with the rights … and that means Disney owns it!

R58 Sharly/Sharlene was during the run of my favorite AW head writer, Donna Swajeski.

Yes NBC bought the Doctors, but moved it to 12:30 instead of keeping it as the buffer between Days and AW. The Doctors was always a good "palate cleanser" if you will between the two shows. It was a good flow for that block of shows because each show had it's own identity.

[quote] during the run of my favorite AW head writer, Donna Swajeski.

She used Harding LeMay long-term story bible he did for the show. In short, he was head writer, but she got the credit

Another World will be remembered for one thing: the greatest triangle of the soap world...Alice/Steve/Rachel. Robin Strasser may not have been daytime's first bitch, but she took it to the limit and put AW on the map.

R68 Texas was a spinoff of AW. Beverlee McKinsey as Iris was on Texas for its first year. She received a rare top billing credit when she was part of the cast.

[quote] Santa Barbara

Another show JFP shat all over.

I'm reminded of the poster who said that when they farted, it sounded like this theme.

It takes little to amuse me.

I love this theme, though.

Another World was very innovative. Another World had Somerset as a spin-off then Texas. Some people try to say that Lovers and Friends is an unofficial spin-off, but the two shows were just in the same universe. AW was the first soap to do an hour and then 90 minutes. AW had nasty public feuds between actors and writers. It was quite the show.

Is this Chris Rich and Richard Bekins?

What I would have done for a Jamie/Sandy romance!

Is the woman's profile in the 1981 opening McKinsey? It wasn't Linda Dano as she didn't start until '83. Bev was still playing Iris on Texas until the month after this theme debuted.

Little known fact: Linda Dano was one of the world's first supermodels (before such a phrase existed).

[quote]R30 Also it won both Charles Keating & Anna Holbrook Emmy awards

Anne Heche won a daytime Emmy for the soap, too. She wasn’t there to accept, as she was on to bigger and better things, doing “O Pioneers “ with Our Jessie.

Remember Dorothy Lyman as Gwen and sexy Leon Russom, fresh off of Oh Calcutta. I liked Iris' white trash maid Vivian.

[quote] Little known fact: Linda Dano was one of the world's first supermodels (before such a phrase existed).

You know, I have to say, I watched that episode of Biography once, and I ended up really respecting her. She seemed to always be starting again as each career petered out; model, studio contract player, soap actress, fashion stylist, talk show host... she’s certainly a hard worker!

I just want to say how happy it makes me there's still a place in the world where people can gather to badmouth JFP.

Never forget, never forgive.

I was too young at the time to understand the subtext, but Iris finding out that Sylvie was her Mother was Beverlee at her finest. The look on Iris' face. "So does this, mean... oh my God."

I don’t understand how it was “another world”. It looks just like the real world!

Just like I don’t get how their could be a “secret storm”. How do you keep a storm secret? By arranging a weather forecast blackout?

[quote] Just like I don’t get how their could be a “secret storm”.

The original title was suppose to "The Storm Within" but had to change the title because their major sponsor was to be a stomach ailment product

R88, go back to the show's beginning. Bill Wolff would say at the beginning of each episode, "We do not live in this world alone, but in a thousand other worlds". The show was about the many worlds that we live in and/or strive to move into.

As for Secret Storm, it was originally titled 'The Storm Within', but that title was rejected. Secret Storm was about the private emotions and interpersonal turmoils surrounding human emotion and human weaknesses.

My Mom watched it, so fond memories. We used to discuss characters and plot twists. Once my Dad asked, “Are these real people you are talking about?” We thought that was hilarious.

Wasn't the suggestion at the end of the Christine Jones/Victoria Wyndham storyline that Jones was a lesbian interested in Rachel? I think they kissed at the end in the water.

R86 Damn right, Sylvia! Never forget and never forgive.

She has broken my heart.

Did Sylvia watch GL, Mo?

[quote] I don’t understand how it was “another world”. It looks just like the real world!

Because AW was created by Irna Phillips, who created almost all the P&G soaps we know and love.

Her big soap at that time was As The World Turns, so she was trying, literally, to create another "World" as in "world turns". She also wrote something that was spoken in the first years during the opening - "We do not live in this world alone, but in a thousand other worlds."

[quote]She also wrote something that was spoken in the first years during the opening - "We do not live in this world alone, but in a thousand other worlds."

This.

oh....one of the soap bloggers called their blog that....I get it now

[quote]r95 She also wrote something that was spoken in the first years during the opening - "We do not live in this world alone, but in a thousand other worlds."

Well, maybe after we've [italic]dropped acid.

R98 it was the 60s. Anything was possible!

[quote]Well, maybe after we've dropped acid.

How did the soaps handle the rise of hippies?

I seem to remember a character named Missy who was slipped some LSD without her knowledge, R100.

Does anyone remember Audra Lindley as Liz Matthews? She was great, not just the busybody Dailey turned her into. Plus , her son was played by the hot Joe Gallison.

Was that Missy or was that Lee Randolph, r101. Lee took some LSD and thought it would cause her to have deformed children and she broke up with Sam Lucas because of it. This pushed Sam towards Lahoma who was a kooky model friend of Rachel's.

Audra's Liz was a society rich bitch type. Think of Phoebe Wallingford from AMC who thought Missy wasn't good enough for her son Bill. She tried to push Lenore and Bill together. Lenore ended up with Walter Curtin.

[quote] Lee took some LSD and thought it would cause her to have deformed children

Did she?

It was a whole LSD storyline. The synopsis is on the Another World Home Page.

Scoche Marin, the new Katherine Chancellor on Y&R, went to acting school with Vicky Wyndham.

[quote]R101 Does anyone remember Audra Lindley as Liz Matthews? She was great, not just the busybody Dailey turned her into. Plus , her son was played by the hot Joe Gallison.

Huh. I didn't know this.

Apparently AW was originally designed as a spinoff of ATWT.

Courtesy of the "Songs of the AIDS Crisis" thread, I was listening to a 1991 CD by the NYC Gay Men's Chorus called "Love Lives On." I first heard of it when Michael Hudson died, and they played "No One Is Alone" from it during his funeral. Go to 7:30 if the link doesn't take you there automatically.

"Victoria!"

[quote]Remember Dorothy Lyman as Gwen and sexy Leon Russom, fresh off of Oh Calcutta.

I found John Fitzpatrick (Willis #1) about one hundred million times sexier than Russom (Willis #2). But Russom certainly has fashioned a long career for himself – I saw him just a few weeks ago in an episode of Showtime's Shameless.

R109 AW could always be counted on to put on a good funeral.

[quote] Just like I don’t get how their could be a “secret storm”.

[quote]The original title was suppose to "The Storm Within" but had to change the title because their major sponsor was to be a stomach ailment product

At least the sponsor wasn’t a douche company.

[quote]I never accepted actress Carmen Duncan as Iris.

I couldn't believe they were actually trying to recast Iris. Beverlee McKinsey owned the role and it felt sacreligious to get anyone else to play the part.

While she wasn't La Bev, Duncan was a very good actress. I came to like her in the role. But she was NOT Iris.

When they brought back Iris in 1988, they had her as a business woman trying to take over Cory Publishing. Iris, a business woman!?!?!

McKinsey's Iris never gave a hoot about working. Working was beneath her. Working was for the plebeians, not for society people. Iris was a snob who looked down her nose at people who worked. Yet here was Duncan's Iris supposedly a savvy business dealer.

For that reason, Duncan's Iris felt like a totally new character.

I'm probably in the minority, but I loved that ridiculous Jordan Stark/secret garden storyline that involved Amanda Cory.

I'm probably in the minority, but I loved that ridiculous Jordan Stark/secret garden storyline that involved Amanda Cory.

Mary Page Keller's Sally Frame once had a daydream that she was the maid to Donna and Cecile came over to see her. Sally was slovenly and unkempt and looked like Cinderella. Anna Stuart and Nancy Frangione got to clown around as they kept switching cheeks (facial) repeating "Sister! Sister! Sister" over and over again. It was very funny. Later on when Donna had a fling with Catlin, he ended it by getting fed up with her and pushing her into a pile of horse shit. Anna Stuart really got to show her comical side as Donna which "Brand New Sexy Donna" never did. Sofia Landon though was very good as "sub Donna". She should have come on as Donna's long lost twin.

A great exchange between Donna and Vicky went like this (I think it was Anne Heche as Victoria....):

Donna: Victoria, you look pensive.

Victoria: No, I'm just thinking.

R12, Tall Boys!

If AW were still on and Ron Carlivati wrote it, he'd bring back Tall Boys!

"Wweeee had a kind of love you'll NEVAH know!"

Love how Liz just grimaced for poor Alice at that one.

Aunt Liz as you've never seen her!

Irene Dailey as a fictional version of Ma Barker in Robert Aldrich's "The Grissom Gang" (1971). She chewed up so much scenery here that she was spitting up woodchips even after she took over as Liz in 1974.

New thread about Sam Groom, who played Russ Matthews opposite Robin Strasser's Rachel.

Sam Groom and Robin Strasser.

This 1962 remake of the silent masterpiece "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" featured Constance Ford as the assistant to the head of a mental institution. She seems like she's as sinister as she was in other movies, but there's a nice twist. Glynis Johns, still living, plays the patient. Later when Connie was Crawford's right hand man in "The Caretakers" (another film about a mental institution), she was quite different. I love finding my favorite soap stars in old movies!

Wasn't Irene Dailey on Edge Of Night early in her career? My favorite storyline on ANY soap ever was the Stephanie Martin murder mystery, and I seem to vaguely remember Dailey having been a part of it.

John Bolger turns 66 today.

Love John Bolger.

So fucking sexy.

Diego Serrano as Tomas--why I started watching.:) He even did Playgirl.:)

In honor of John Bolger's 66th birthday, let's remember a little dance he did while playing Phillip on GL in 1985.

Go to 3:35 in this video to watch him dance to Proud Mary.

I love that clip, Liz!

I don't know what I love more:

John Bolger thrusting

OR

Bev getting DOWN!

R124 Yes, she was Pamela Stewart, married to Nicole's ex-husband. She was apparently a bitchy society type who ended up killing Stephanie Martin (Alice Hirson) with a knife, thinking it was Nicole. Constance Ford had played a knife wielding murderess on "The Edge of Night" (Eve Morris) in 1965.

John Bolger, star of one of the all time greatest gay films, "Parting Glances". Gorgeous man.

He was beautiful as a young man and still ridiculously handsome as a mature gentleman.

R130, thanks so much...yes, now I remember. And Alice Hirson (who, I think, went on to play Ellen DeGeneres mother in her sitcom) was one of the most evil villains ever. Everyone in Monticello had a reason to kill her. I loved when soaps had murder mysteries like this....when one person would be on the witness stand the whole day.

YES! YES! YES!

As an elder who watched with my mother in the 60s, I will always consider Robin Strasser's bratty, scheming Rachel the ONLY Rachel. I remember there was one episode where her exasperated young husband -Russ? - put her over his knee and spanked her, and it seemed like the most thrilling comeuppance ever!

I also liked Alice, Steve Frame and LAHOMA!

R135, you are so right. Robin Strasser's Rachel was what put Another World on the map.

I hated when Victoria Wyndham rebranded Rachel as a benevolent heroine.

Iris Carrington was a wonderful villainess though.....did she help inspire Alexis Carrington?

I watched with Mom in the mid 70s and there can only ever be on Rachel for me. Watching Rachel and Iris trying to one up each other was glorious.

*one Rachel

Some fun notes:

What I didn't know until read the back synopses on AWHP was that Iris and Rachel were scheming buddies in the beginning because Iris didn't like Alice. Elliot was into Alice and Iris wanted him back. I guess when Rachel set her sights on 'daddy', it was a step too far for Iris.

Also Rachel and Janice were friends during Janice's first run.

I also think that Janice and Iris were Rachel's bridesmaids at her wedding to Steve.

R134 One of the greatest confrontations in daytime history was towards Dr. Ann Larimer Aldrich (Geraldine Court, later Jennifer on "GL") when Carolee, Steve, Jason and Dr. Brandt (Gil Rogers, between stints as Ray Gardner on "AMC" and long before playing Hawk Shayne on "GL") arrived at Mona Croft's party and Dr. Brandt identified Ann as the woman who had claimed to be Irene Lomax, Carolee's sister, keeping her locked up in a mental institution. Steve and Jason were suspicious of Ann from the start (Ann had gotten pregnant with Steve's baby, forcing him into a marriage he didn't want), but Mona (the fantastic Meg Mundy) was shocked because Ann was the only one of her daughters-in-law whom she really ever liked. The heartbreak on Meg's face was riveting, and Geraldine gave a super performance as a woman trapped, still fighting until she realized that there was no point to it. Geraldine was on "Another World" between "The Doctors" and "GL" in a pointless short-term role but I'm sure she did her best to make it interesting.

More of the confrontation.

One of my top AW episodes, Carl and his "Luke, I am your father" reveal to Ryan. July 1992.

1981 was a pretty bad year for the show as far as the pointless Alice recasts and lots of characters that nobody cared about, but it was the last full year of the Matthews family. There's a family photo of the entire Matthews family together (minus Michael who didn't come) for Mariann's wedding, and it is very poignant because Beverly Penberthy would be fired just a few months later and Hugh Marlowe would pass away. Constant re-casts of Sally also occurred. Only Liz remained with the Matthews name by the end of 1982.

Stephen Schnetzer's son Ben is playing the lead in an FX show.

In case anyone is interested, there is a thread devoted to The Doctors.

[quote] 1981 was a pretty bad year for the show as far as the pointless Alice recasts and lots of characters that nobody cared about, but it was the last full year of the Matthews family. There's a family photo of the entire Matthews family together (minus Michael who didn't come) for Mariann's wedding, and it is very poignant because Beverly Penberthy would be fired just a few months later and Hugh Marlowe would pass away. Constant re-casts of Sally also occurred. Only Liz remained with the Matthews name by the end of 1982.

Wasn't Christopher Knight on the show during that period?

You are correct, R147.

And they were reunited when Jennifer replaced Susan Olsen as Cindy in [italic]A Very Brady Christmas[/italic].

[italic] I didn’t know there was a Fake Cindy![/italic]

My god, is NOTHING sacred??

Mac Cory sings!

Snyder Farm thread is Murieled. Must have been too much action yesterday.

New thread to replace Snyder farm one.

I mean, it's also open to AW folks but of course if you wanna ride this thread until Murieled it makes sense, too.

Probably a stupid question, but what does "Murieled" mean?

didn't he used to write for this show?

R154 Regarding Muriel, our webmistress.

It's a nickname for the thread being paywalled, which means only paying members can comment - usually slows comments to a trickle.

R155 Yes, I think right before Aggie Nixon.

James Lipton also wrote for "Capitol" when all those God-awful plot twists occurred that made no sense and road viewers off faster than George H.W. Bush's first and only term in the White House. He also appeared as an actor on "Guiding Light". playing Dr. Dick Grant from 1952-1962.

If there was ever a time where Connie Ford deserved an Emmy nomination, it was her dealing with the loss of her last husband, Charlie Hobson. This episode features Christopher Knight as his estranged son, Leigh. She's very tender with him (on-screen). I wonder how it was for them off screen. Connie seemed to favor young actors even though she was rumored to be lesbian. Her scenes with Matt Crane and Tom Eplin later on were always electric. She obviously gave them the fear to get the scene right or rehearsed in advance with them. She seems like someone who had a very tough facade and could be very intimidating, but underneath once you got to know her was a real soft hearted woman.

My fingers are faster than my brain. Forgot to post the link.

I beat off many a time to Matt Crane and Tom Eplin back then. Good times. Loved the NYC soap actors.

R161 Both at the same time?

You HUSSY!

R144, there was one brief return to glory-adjacent when Russ and Pat and Liz and Alice all came back in 1989 for AW's 25th.

If Doug Marland and lived and came over to AW, he'd have brought back the Matthews clan, I'm sure.

I don’t agree about the Matthews. Remember Doug got his start working for Lemay. I think he would have beefed up the Frames. You could argue that the Snyders were just a more “incesty” version of the Frames. I could see maybe a different line of Frames showing up in town or stories built around Sharlene, like Lemay did in 88.

While I would have liked to see the Matthews return, they may have been a little too white bread and middle class for the kinds of haves versus have not storylines that Doug liked to tell.

r164 r163 I never saw any Matthews but Liz, but I have a hard time thinking of her as the Emma Snyder of Bay City.

R163 Liz actually was recurring at the time. She had returned for Thanksgiving 1987 and went back to work for Mac, immediately exposing the fact that Sam Fowler was Mitch Blake's brother. Eventually, she became a partner to Nicole in her fashion salon, but that story pretty much ended when Nicole confessed to killing Jason Frame. Liz remained around as a part of her grand niece Olivia's story, finally fading into the Bay City woodwork after the anniversary episode in 1994.

Liz was interested in Mac at one time. It would have been great if they would have returned Liz to her society matron roots. Still a gossip and nosey, but maybe add Greek chorus and snooty society dame to her bag of tricks. Some story ideas for Liz could have been her grandson Ricky coming to town or maybe her son Bill could return the dead. I think Bill died in boating accident and his body was never recovered.

[quote]there was one brief return to glory-adjacent when Russ and Pat and Liz and Alice all came back in 1989 for AW's 25th.

Unfortunately marred by completely out of character writing for Gwen Frame.

When Mac first came to Bay City, Iris was pushing for Liz and Mac to marry.

Then Mac met Rachel and only had eyes for her.

[quote]marred by completely out of character writing for Gwen Frame.

As I recall, the show originally wanted to bring back Willis and have him angry at Rachel for Janice's death. However, they couldn't get Leon Russom back for the 25th so they transferred Willis' part to his wife Gwen.

R167 Grandson Rick would have been a great idea. I would have loved for him to be openly gay, and for Liz to play matchmaker for him.

R171, would he have been age-appropriate for Matthew?

Speaking of Matthew—Crane, that is—does anyone else remember a Washington, DC, bartender who used to post on AOL, telling us how Matt Crane was one of his regular customers. This was 25 years ago. He never told us which bar, but it was a gay bar.

i believe a young julian mcmahon appeared on the show wearing a sexy extremely tiny speedo in one of his earliest scenes....

even mature hairy beefy MAC actor Douglas Watson appeared in a speedo occassionally and looked damn daddy sexy.. facially he was a very handsome man with those sparkling eyes and great smile...

and there was that long haired GORGEOUS DEREK character played by Kevin Carrigan.... sex on a stick he was!..

[quote]and there was that long haired GORGEOUS DEREK character played by Kevin Carrigan.... sex on a stick he was!

He was a reason to flick over to Oakdale or Llanview if I was watching in real time. I was afraid for Fanny to be in a room with him.

Commercials on Retro for "The Doctors" on-line website shows Anna Stuart and Elizabeth Hubbard sitting together with a few other actors. Looking forward to hearing what they have to say. Considering that Anna and Elizabeth went onto roles that made them daytime legends, they must be in shock or overjoyed that this earlier stint of theirs is getting them some well deserved attention, and hopefully royalties!

La Hubbard won an Daytime Emmy for playing Althea on The Doctors. In fact, she was the first to ever win that Lead Actress award. She won at the very first daytime Emmy award ceremony ever held, back in 1974.

She was already a legend by the time she started playing Lucinda in 1984.

[quote]and there was that long haired GORGEOUS DEREK character played by Kevin Carrigan.... sex on a stick he was!

His Cro-Magnon brow and leonine mane made me think he and Hillary Edson (Stacy) were doing Beauty and the Beast every day.

[quote]His Cro-Magnon brow and leonine mane made me think he and Hillary Edson (Stacy) were doing Beauty and the Beast every day.

Yes, that's exactly what you were supposed to think. AW was trying to emulate Beauty and the Beast with that storyline and Carigan's casting.

How many actors are lucky enough to play one role for 10 years or more, let alone two? Elizabeth Hubbard, 15 years as Althea and 25 as Lucinda; Barbara Berjer, 10+ years (not counting recurring appearances later on) as Barbara, "Guiding Light", and 11 as Bridgette on "Another World". Nat Polen, 11 years as Dr. Doug Cassen on "As the World Turns" and another 11 as Dr. Jim Craig on "One Life to Live". I can't think of any others.

Susan Flannery is close but she only had nine years on DAYS.

Wally Kurth qualifies although he hasn't been on contract for much of the time at DAYS and GH.

R179 here. Thanks R180. I think 9 is close enough, especially if it was well over 9 1/2 years. I was also thinking about Denise Alexander, close on "Days" with 7 years and 11 on contract on "GH". I just rounded it off to 10 as a simple number. Maree Cheatham would be close too although she was recurring for years on "Days" (7 years off and on) rather than contract, as well as with 10 exactly as Stephanie on "Search". Wally Kurth certainly is deserving of being there irregardless of contract status as his characters are vitally important veteran characters. Soap hoppers usually have one great role and a slew of memorable ones that weren't long term but ones that people remember. We still talk about Jane Elliott on "Guiding Light" and "Days" (not so much "AMC") and Robin Strasser on "Another World", and there are dozens of others maybe not quite at 10 years in one part that made impressions in smaller roles after they hit daytime fame in one. Ann Flood was already a daytime star (the short-lived "From These Roots") when she started her 22 years on "Edge of Night", and after that hopped around pretty much every NY soap along with Maeve McGuire up until the mid 1990's. Pretty much every big daytime name ends up as a judge on the soaps at some point, from Audrey Peters and Mary Stuart to Louise Shaffer and Ellen Holly.

R165, I'll have you know that "I" was the Emma Snyder of Bay City!

R168, well, yes, Gwen was nutso and it made no sense.

that was like JT coming back to Y&R as a wife beater.

But was great seeing Pat, Russ, Alice and Liz once again all in the same episode.

Jacqueline Courtney coming back again a few months or even weeks later for Mac's funeral was powerful.

The writers didn't ignore Alice and Mac's union even though Alice, at the time was played by Vanya Harney Rula Lenska Tribbeny (Who the fuck were all those women??)

Had AW come up with a VIABLE leading man that the two women could have sparred over, we could have had some great years.

I loved Lemay's writing, but his take that Courtney couldn't act was, at the end of the day, just his opinion.

Wasn’t Emma Ordway the Emma Snyder of Bay City?

No, Rose Perrini was the Emma Snyder of Bay City.

WHET Robert Tyler - he was sooooo fuckable.

Jacqueline Courtney was close with 12 years (in two stints) on "Another World" and 8 years on "One Life to Live". Anyone know why Pat Ashley never came back to Llanview, even for a visit? She was very close friends with Vicki. They seemed more like sisters.

[quote]I loved Lemay's writing, but his take that Courtney couldn't act was, at the end of the day, just his opinion.

I think Lemay felt that Courtney & Reinholt's popularity was an impediment to what he really wanted to do with the show. Her melodramatic acting style certainly didn't fit in with his conception of a sophisticated drawing room drama. I loved what he did to orient the show around Vicky Wyndham -- but I also think losing Courtney was a massive blow.

Tom Eplin and Matt were so fine. I would have done Jake and Matthew at the same time. Jake could show the young buck how it's done.

Doug said you have to think twice before you fire someone and that the audience favorites may not be your favorites.

Can I just say that late 1985 ATWT through approximately mid-1987 was Doug as his finest; certainly, there was more great stuff to come but Douglas Cummings, Sabrina, Lily/Holden, Meg (!), Simply Barbara/Tom/Margo, Duncan/Shannon, et. al. were magnificent!

I think George shot himself in the foot. Lemay liked writing for him. Created a whole family around him. He just wouldn’t play ball. I used to be a huge Lemay apologist, but he was not without some flaws. I think Reinholt, Courtney, and Dwyer could have remained and thrived if they were willing to meet Lemay half way.

oh wait Robert Tyler was on Loving. Tom Eplin was on AW - I heard plenty of rumors about him liking the dick.any stories?

[quote]Robert Tyler was on Loving.

Also on ATWT, in a very secondary role. I forget his character's name, he came and went so quickly. Neil Maffin was his partner in nearly every scene. They hung out at the OYC.

R190 The Doug Cummings story was a fabulous story. Giulia Pagano was terrific as the terrifying Marsha Talbot, his ever loyal assistant who may have killed Doug's wife. She deserved an Emmy nomination. I recall her also on "One Life to Live" as a homeless woman with a little girl whom Tina hid out with after having dealt with the crazy Ursula Blackwell (Jill Larson, pre-"All My Children") and on "All My Children" as a psychiatrist. She was also in the mini-series "Masada" as Miriam whom I believe was Peter O'Toole's wife.

Tyler played Spence Davies on ATWT; a man with a body of death and yet he only had eyes for Pam, who had the body of a ten year old boy.

He played Spence as kind of ...dim and out of it. Digest called him 'transient mental case Spence Davies.'

I think he fell victim to the 1988 writers' strike.

Doug had his share of himbos on the show, but, personally, I think he struck gold with Holden; I think after a few years went by the writing declined, Hensley lost some of the smoldering stuff and he put on 15 lbs -- not in a good way.

It happens.

But Holden circa 1985-87 was HOT.

i forget the character's name and the actor who played him, but who was the character who was a detective and was a dark haired parted to the side, blue eyed with the almost feminine lips pretty boy? .... was he rachel and mac's adult son (no, not the young blond pretty boy) or some other "cory"?..

i remember a storyline where he was chasing down a murderer or serial killer or rapist or some kind of bad guy and everytime he would get info or another clue on getting this bad guy the actor's acting LITERALLY looked like he was orgasming! so over the top it was hilarious, campy and yet sexy!

ANYONE know who or what i'm talking about..

[quote]was he rachel and mac's adult son (no, not the young blond pretty boy) or some other "cory"?..

It was Mac's nephew, Adam Cory, played by Ed Fry.

R196 Was this the Sin Stalker storyline? I remember at the time, everybody was shocked that the noble, gorgeous Dr. Steve Aldrich from "The Doctors" (David O'Brien) was a serial killer. I watch "The Doctors" in re-runs, and it was surprising to see how gaunt David had become, not surprising considering what would happen. He was only 50 when this story took place. I usually am not attracted to white guys, but he had something special.

R197... that's right! thank you so very much!... so pretty he was, but his acting was so over the top campy when he tried to be "macho"... (i..e like drake hogestyn back in his prime as john black on days) that it was sexy smirking wicked hot...

as i stated i remember one episode when he got some clue on this bad guy that he LITERALLY closed his eyes and started trembling like he was having a fantastic orgasm so excited and whatever what his character on nabbing the bad guy... even then as a young man/teenager i thought "WTF" was that???!!! lol!...

[quote] I loved Lemay's writing, but his take that Courtney couldn't act was, at the end of the day, just his opinion.

Oh, it wasn't just *his* opinion.

Not a Courtney fan, but to be fair, a lot of the P&G shows had a very specific kind of performer in the 50's and 60's and, as the shows went to an hour and/or became a bit more sophisticated, those performers didn't fit in as well. Courtney certainly had her charms, but they were a better fit with the earlier iteration of AW.

I first saw Jackie Courtney when she came to OLTL and my first impression of her was that she had really bad legs with thick ankles.

AW rankled a lot of people when they went to 90 minutes because it became the writers were scrambling to fill that additional 30 minutes a day so we had endless recaps. One of the most overused lines in the show was "I'll get back to you".

Did Gwen even KNOW Janice? Geez. I'm sure Lyman chewed the scenery whole.

Gwen was around from 1976 to 1980. Janice had been there from 1972-74 and returned as played by Christine Jones in 1978, so yes, they did know each other. I haven't seen any scenes with them from the available episodes but a lot of that material has never been posted.

[quote]I'm sure Lyman chewed the scenery whole.

She did in her return for the 25th anniversary, but she wasn't at all hammy in her original run.

Gwen's mother, Leueen Parrish, was played by Margaret Barker who had also played Althea's mother, Edna Hamilton, on "The Doctors", and was a replacement for Marjorie Gateson as Grace Tyrell on "The Secret Storm". Gwen was actually a socialite friend of Iris's. They made her much more Naomi/Opal like for her return which destroyed history.

WHET Ty Treadway? He was fucking sex on a stick

he was on OLTL, dearie....another thread

R200, even Lemay admitted that there are some qualities that make people 'stars' and that's what Courtney was and he attributed her presence at OLTL to that show doing better in the ratings.

Sure, she could be a little soap, but fans loved her.

They BLEW it with her 1984 return -- she showed up at the house and only Kevin's father -- really good actor -- was there. I forget his name. He went on to have quite the career including playing a guy who had an affair with one of the lesbians on QAF. Now, THAT"S having charisma!

They should have built the Matthews family up with Alice's return. Jim had died, but Liz was still around. I would have brought back Russ and Pat and added some kids...

The Hughes and Bauers were still a part of ATWt and GL until the end. The Matthews clan should have been too.

Yes, AW had a wonderful opportunity to resurrect the Matthews clan with the return of Jacquie Courtney in 1984. Liz was still there. And Sally was the show's new It Girl. Plus they'd given Sally a toddler son, which meant he was Alice's grandson. Plus, Liz's granddaughter Julia Shearer was still on the show. So, solid base to build from there.

Jacquie Courtney was brought back for the 20th anniversary on May 4, 1984. Reportedly the show had tried to get Bev McKinsey back for the 20th anniversary but she opted to go to GL instead, joining that show in Feb. 1984. Since the show still wanted to do something splashy for the 20th, that's why AW pursued Courtney to return. It wasn't so much Alice that they wanted back as a big star they wanted back.

Since they got Alice back, why not go all in and go after Beverly Penberthy (Pat) and David Bailey (Russ) too? Both were popular with fans, although neither had the star power of Courtney.

Bringing back Pat would have especially made sense. Alice needed a confidant which her sister Pat had always been. But the show didn't really have a clear vision for what it wanted to do with Alice upon her return, which left the Alice character marooned. I mean, she didn't even have that much interaction with Liz or Sally during her year back.

However, Beverly Penberthy had been a road block to Pat's return. HW Corine Jacker had written Pat out in early 1982, saying that she could no longer write for this character and Paul Rauch allowed Jacker to do this. However, a year or so later, Jacker was out and reportedly Rauch invited Beverly Penberthy back. However, Penberthy declined, apparently still hurt by the dismissal. No idea whether Rauch put much effort into trying to sweet talk her back or not. He should have just kept coming back every few months until she agreed to return. Perhaps Beverly Penberthy's nephew can ask his aunt about this and report back to us.

As for Russ, they did bring him back for three years in 1989-92 and had him, among other things, act as a sort of surrogate father and mentor to Jamie Frame. That was wise since Russ believed Jamie was his son for the first three years of Jamie's life. Too bad they didn't realize they could do the same thing back in 1984.

If David Bailey was unwilling to come back as Russ in 1984, they could have cast Jerry Lanning (who had played Justin Marshall on Texas). Lanning subbed for Bailey a few times in 1989 and did a fantastic job with the part. Personally, I liked Lanning's interpretation of the role better than Bailey's, but then I also had the hots for Lanning during his time as Justin on Texas.

Plenty of further potential to expand the Matthews family in 1984 too. Pat's twins Michael and Maryanne could have been resurrected as well. Likewise, Russ had been off the show for three years, so they could have brought him back with a wife and children. Perhaps Russ' new wife could have been an old lover of Mac's.

But all that said, the AW headwriters and the EPs in the mid 1980s just didn't have that clear a vision of the show to understand how much the Matthews family grounded the show.

Paul Rauch in the early 1970s.

Quite a looker!

After Lemay left, so many writers just never got what this show was supposed to be about. But one of the things that I truly enjoyed was that Jamie kept getting duped by "young Rachel types". That just seemed like cosmic justice to me. My favorite Jamie was Richard Bekins, even though Russell Todd was hotter to look at and the show had no problem getting him naked.

I'm I total agreement about bringing the Mathews family back. It should have been a no brainer. So many of the head writers just didn't get the history that they had to work with and the few that did, didn't last long.

Russel Todd was a very good Jamie.

I thought all the adult Jamies were good. Excellent casting with them.

However, my favorite was Richard Bekins. He was, of course, the strongest of the bunch, If he had stayed in the role, they could have gradually built the entire show around him. He was that good and compelling.

But Russell Todd and Larry Lau also did a good job. Writers gave both of them excellent storylines.

In my mind, Stephen Yates was the weakest of the Jamies. But that also had a lot to do with the writing during his run (83-85). Writers just weren't doing much with Jamie during that period, emphasizing Sandy and Cass instead.

If anyone is reading the "40 Years of Hans" thread (Y&R), it has been Murieled.

I wonder if someone could please start a new one, with links. "Theo needs another suit" might be an interesting topic. With his newfound Abbott money, surely he can splurge on at least one non-plaid suit. Did that thing he's been wearing every day for months now come from a '70s vintage shop or what?

Russell so fucking sexy and later came out as gay.

Makes you wonder how many others are and just end up dying before they come out; they can live and die into their 70s and 80s and never come out.

Sad.

Bekins, though, was my favorite Jamie; he shared some screen time with Maeve Kinkead in 1991 on AW when Alexandra walks into the Blue Moon looking for Billy. She finds him and says she's going to nail Roger to the wall. Oh, yeah? What's ole Rog done this time? "Well, it's what he was doing all last year -- sleeping with your daughter."

this post is begging for this clip

May 1989, 25th anniversary: Rachel, Liz, Pat, Matthew, Ada, Nancy, Gwen, Jamie -- all in this same segment. I'm sure Alice and Russ turn up in the next one.

and in this next one: Dennis, Vivian, Robert, Sharlene, Donna, Michael, Robert, Alice...

geez, this was the last golden age IMHO

[quote]Bekins, though, was my favorite Jamie; he shared some screen time with Maeve Kinkead in 1991 on AW when Alexandra walks into the Blue Moon looking for Billy. She finds him and says she's going to nail Roger to the wall. Oh, yeah? What's ole Rog done this time? "Well, it's what he was doing all last year -- sleeping with your daughter."

Sounds as if you meant GL, not AW. What part did Bekins play?

Bekins was playing Vanessa's date but he wasn't on for more than an episode or two.

R214 someone made this thread, it appears

Can someone please post the link to the current GH thread. It has fallen off my Thread Watcher list. Thanks.

R221

R218, yes I did mean GL.

He was a date named Michael Clark; Vanessa was NOT into him; she was too concerned about Mindy.

Loved the scene with Vanessa and Roger on the deck where he says: what are you doing here? You're not a Lewis. (Beat.) Anymore.

Just taking that slight beat between Lewis and Anymore was something the pro's know how to do.

Jean Carol was funny when Billy and Nadine met Vanessa and Michael.

Boy,t his was SUCH a great takedown; Alex. had. had. enough. Soaps don't know how to build to this stuff anymore. Or they won't.

Beverlee McKinsey said after she "retired" she realized that after working on Texas and GL, she was never particularly happy doing AW. She also claimed the cast and crew of Texas and GL were better and more conducive to her ability for better performances.

[quote] Linda Dano aka Felicia on a drunken bender, now THAT was Soap acting at its finest!

Here it is on her Emmy Reel if you want to see it

I still wonder if Wyndham and McKinsey got along....or didn't. Bev was notoriously press shy and Wyndham hasn't ever said much about her ..

Grant Aleksander told a story at a fan event about Bev going to an actor once and saying 'look, YOU'RE going to win the war; I won't, but if we don't make the battles along the way interesting then the audience won't care' (paraphrasing).

R227 That sounds similar to what Bev said in an interview about Michael Zaslow.

interesting how Digest now can run the Weekly stuff.

I think Weekly was a great magazine; very industry, very insider. it got a lot of great interviews.

But the spoilers got out of hand. You could buy it on Monday (the Thursday before in big cities with big newsstands) and learn pretty much everything that was going to happen.

Digest was still first; it was better when it was weekly and there were 12 + shows.

Now, it's weekly, and it's, like, 74 pages (!) and there's no news. and it's so dated when it finally sees print.

Soap Opera NOW! was the best. It had all the casting news and great interviews and it came quickly in the mail.

I also liked Soap Opera Magazine in its later years (late 1990s). It covered every show in every issue and had news before Digest did.

[quote]Beverlee McKinsey said after she "retired" she realized that after working on Texas and GL, she was never particularly happy doing AW.

She didn't seem particularly happy with her final GL years, either.

I wish the online archives were better for both magazines.

[quote]Grant Aleksander told a story at a fan event about Bev going to an actor once and saying 'look, YOU'RE going to win the war; I won't, but if we don't make the battles along the way interesting then the audience won't care' (paraphrasing).

This anecdote comes up every 6-9 months on the P&G threads. We figured this out long ago.

Bev made the comment to Gail Brown, who played Clarice on AW. When Clarice first started on the show, Iris was out to get her since Iris' love interest at the time was Robert Delaney. At one point Robert had been involved with Clarice, who was pregnant with Robert's baby, unbeknownst to him. Iris was determined to keep that information secret.

What was happening, Iris was putting Clarice down repeatedly, intimidating her and making her feel very threatened. However, Gail would smirk, smile, roll her eyes, etc at the end of scenes, undercutting the power of the scene. Gail was a very green actress at that point and didn't understand this.

So, Bev went to her explaining that Clarice was going to win the war in the end and Iris' wrong doings would be exposed. Clarice would be triumphant, while Iris would be disgraced. However, Iris needed to win some of the battles along the way for the audience to really get invested in the storyline.

R232 Thanks, Liz.

I missed prior discussions of this, but very interesting to know!

It also puts the "Hiya, Iris" bit into a little bit of context.

Clarice was only intended to be on for two days. She was Phillip Wainwright's date for a party that Iris was throwing. Iris had hired Phillip to seduce Rachel away from Mac, shortly after they were married the first time. But Phillip needed the cover of dating Clarice so it wouldn't be so obvious that he was after Rachel.

So, when Clarice came to the party and did her "Hiya Iris." it was so refreshing and different from the stuffy WASPy characters that inhabited soaps at that point, Harding Lemay immediately started making longer term plans for the Clarice character. She ended up being on the show for 11 years.

The very idea of someone saying something as low class as "Hiya" to rich, snooty, to the manor born Iris was hysterical. I remember as a kid, my mouth dropped hearing it. I was really surprised Iris didn't rip into Clarice right on the spot.

One thing I have always wondered, was the "Hiya Iris" in the script or did Gail Brown ad lib it. Either way, it made for a fantastic first impression and the beginning of a memorable character.

[quote] One thing I have always wondered, was the "Hiya Iris" in the script or did Gail Brown ad lib it. Either way, it made for a fantastic first impression and the beginning of a memorable character.

I thought we'd learned in a prior thread that it was ad libbed, but I am not sure, dear Liz. This is what I have from Lemay's book:

[Lemay explains how he shifted away from other projects] to concentrate upon Iris’s efforts to break up Mac’s engagement to Rachel. She hired a Long Island playboy, fallen on hard times, to seduce her father’s fiancée, a situation which quite by accident brought a most endearing new character into the story. To annoy Iris, her gigolo friend invited a waitress as his guest at a dinner parry at Iris’s new home. Planned for only two episodes, Clarice was cast without Paul’s consulting me, as was customary with characters intended for brief appearances.

Several weeks later, I watched Gail Brown enter Iris’s living room on the arm of her mischievous escort. Wearing a white satin evening gown modeled on those Jean Harlow and Carole Lombard wore in film comedies of the 1930s, Miss Brown stole the scene from the more accomplished actors for whom it had been written. Introduced by her smirking companion to a dismayed Iris, Clarice warbled, “Hiya, Iris,” and took in the opulent surroundings and her haughty hostess without blinking an eye or missing a beat of her gum chewing. Character and actress immediately established as inseparable, Gail Brown became a continuing favorite with the viewers, who responded to her, as audiences did decades before to Jean Harlow, with the affection reserved for wayward girls whose hearts are far more dependable than their brains.

Amazing that two simple words can establish a character. But they sure did for Clarice.

I always thought it was disrespectful that Larry Ewing was sidelined when they brought in Adam Cory. Larry was left with nothing to do since all the cop stuff went to Adam.

That said, by that point, the Larry character had pretty much run his course. Frankly, I was surprised Larry lasted as long as he did. Once they wrote Blaine out, Larry lost his main purpose which was to be a talk-to for his sister. Blaine left in March 1985, but Larry stayed until Aug 1986.

[quote]Introduced by her smirking companion to a dismayed Iris, Clarice warbled, “Hiya, Iris,"

I did not watch soap operas with intent until my first episode of AW in the summer of 1988 (the beginning of Josie & Matthew's R&J storyline). For some reason, I always thought it was Ada who said "Hiya, Iris." Oh, how I wish I'd gotten to see this Clarice scene.

oh, my heart squeezes when i hear this theme.

[quote] Blaine left in March 1985

The controversy was that Laura Malone was FIRED after she came back from maternity leave

When Malone went on leave, they hired an actress to replace her for 3 months (Judy Dewey) - When Malone came back TPTB realized what a better actress Judy Dewey was over Malone. So they fired Malone and re-hired Judy Dewey

But Dewey only lasted a year, as Chris Rich (her on-screen hubby) wanted to leave, so they wrote both off in a happy send-off.

Judy Dewey was a very good actress, no doubt about that. And she was one of the best temp recasts I recall. Show really hit pay dirt with Dewey as Blaine.

At the time, most people believed that Malone was fired because she didn't loose the pregnancy weight fast enough. So, when the show brought Dewey back, it stirred lots of controversy. I wasn't surprised when the show wrote off Blaine six months later when Chris Rich left in spring 1985. Saved them lots of headaches in the long run. But at the same time, I wonder what Dewey might have done with the part if they'd really given her a storyline of her own.

If every show made a pregnancy recast who turned out to be a better actress than the original actress into the permanent actress for the part, then Christine Jones would have been playing Viki Lord Riley Buchanan on OLTL since 1981.

Judy Dewey was the only reason to watch AW in 1984. She never got the attention Linda Dano and Nancy Fragionne got though.

Cecile's farewell in Majorca was must see-TV in fall 1984 for me.

"You're a bitch Cecile. You always were and you always will be!"

My God, I thought Judy Dewey was horrible. Maybe she was a competent actor but she had the charisma of a hatrack compared to Laura Malone.

Judy's sole credit is apparently Another World

Judy Dewey made no impression except that she was pretty and looked a fair bit like Laura Malone. La Belle Malone could act circles around Dewey! See for yourselves, beginning at 5:37.

[quote]Cecile's farewell in Majorca was must see-TV in fall 1984 for me.

Stephen Schnetzer had major-league chemistry with every woman he was paired with, didn't he?

R248 He was, is and always will be a total stud.

There are times he had more sexual sizzle in scenes with other MALE characters on the show than many of the weaker couplings.

Julianne Moore was credited as stewardess for that episode up above. Seriously.

I'm in that episode and, as always, I am fabulous.

I didn't see Julianne in THAT episode but they often ran full cast credits every few days or once a week, so it could have been for an episode near that one.

Jane Cameron was SO well cast as Ada's daughter. She really looked like a younger, prettier version of Ada.

The Feb 8, 1985 episode above is great. Thanks for posting it.

I'd forgotten that the show was slowly moving toward a Sandy-Donna pairing. Obviously that didn't happen since Chris Rich opted not to renew his contract. But I was excited with the possibilities of Sandy with Donna.

The episode was also one of Tom Eplin's first. He debuted on Feb. 4, 1985. He was sex on a stick from the outset!!

Nice to see Nancy McGowan in that episode. That character had so much potential. Sorry the show didn't continue with Nancy after Jane Cameron left in 1987.

And this hairdo that Victoria Wyndham has. Yikes!! Makes Rachel look so matronly. Wyndham was only 39 years old when that episode was taped but the hairstyle makes her look a decade older!

Airdate 35 years ago today

It appears that Datalounge PrimeTime continues. I'm a paying member, so I can't be sure its Primetime. I can only surmise its been Primetime for the past several days since there has been so little activity on this thread lately.

So, I'm calling on the paying members to do their part to keep this thread going. Start conversations! Chat with us about your AW memories! And keep the conversations going!!!

I'll start with some ideas for discussion:

1. Who was the most underrated character on AW? Explain.

2. Who was the most overrated character on AW? Tell us why.

3. What was your favorite storyline.

I was a Y&R and OLTL fan during the 80's and 90's (and through 2012)

But I love your thread.

You all are classy, kind, and mature.

You treat each other kindly, ect...

I love these threads and go watch YouTube to see characters I know nothing about...

From various threads I have learned that Beverly McKinsey and Elizabeth Hubbard were truly some of the best actresses in the universe. (I love watching them on YouTube now- AMAZING!!!!)

It is not prime time right now, though it has been prime time most of the time during the last week or two.

1. Most underrated character: Danny Markel's Sam Fowler. They should have given him the show. He was exquisite. I wish someone would post a video of his Christmas 1990 shower scene.

2 Most overrated: Cecile. I started watching in 1988, so every time she appeared, she was nothing more than an annoyance to me.

3. Everything that happened to Donna as a result of her affair with Jake. Damn. She paid and paid and paid.

Welcome, R256! Aunt Liz sets a wonderful tone and we try to follow.

AW was the soap Mom watched (one of them) so I go back to the 70s, though I don't remember all the nitty gritty of story then!

Most overrated character(s): Dean and Jenna would be in there, as would Steve Frame (who was a generic male to me with not much definition), but I'd probably say Carl Hutchins. Charles Keating was amazing but at various times, Carl ate the show and I didn't care for it.

Most underrated: With all due respect, dearest SDFT, I think Cecile was quite underrated. They never really seemed to know what to do with her. The writers that put her in great comic scenes with Donna did, and she was great as an occasional nuisance, I thought.

Favorite stories:

- Any Rachel/Iris scene

- Alma Rudder!

- Sharly

- Felicia's drinking

- Vicky fighting for custody

[quote]Most overrated: Cecile. I started watching in 1988, so every time she appeared, she was nothing more than an annoyance to me.

Too bad you missed Cecile in the early 1980s. She was fantastic! Great character and Nancy Frangione played her to perfect. Managed to combine comedy, drama and pathos nicely. Thus, everytime she came back to town, it was a treat for us longtime viewers.

Interesting to hear that you considered her an annoyance. Without the background of knowing Cecile for the early 1980s, I can see why.

[quote]With all due respect, dearest SDFT, I think Cecile was quite underrated. They never really seemed to know what to do with her. The writers that put her in great comic scenes with Donna did, and she was great as an occasional nuisance, I thought.

[quote] Too bad you missed Cecile in the early 1980s. She was fantastic! Great character and Nancy Frangione played her to perfect. Managed to combine comedy, drama and pathos nicely. Thus, everytime she came back to town, it was a treat for us longtime viewers. Interesting to hear that you considered her an annoyance. Without the background of knowing Cecile for the early 1980s, I can see why.

Yes. She was just thrown in for those who could remember her. For me, she was...meh (though "meh" had yet to become a word). Of course, by that point, ATWT had become my number one show.

R261/SDFT

ATWT was more my show than AW by then as well, though I still caught AW once a week or so.....

Anyway, I think Cecile was a bit like ATWT's Shannon. They didn't really know what to do with Shannon after a while, either. But Maggie Reed was so good! Cecile was a bit more of a bitch, but.....

....ah, back when soaps knew we loved humor, too, instead of just killing half the cast and recasting the other half with actors 20 years younger.

However, ORD, I knew who Shannon was, and what her place was among the other characters, in the tapestry, as they would call it. If Cecile hadn't been just this occasional drop-in guest, maybe I would agree with you. Was it Nancy Frangione who didn't want to work full-time, do you know?

Is Aunt Liz the lady who threatens to kick people in the CUNT!??

I love her!!! She's the lesbian in 50's movies who slaps Rachel in the ass with a dishtowel???

These Proctor and Gamble Shows are so classy, quiet, and dignified ( like the posters here)

I sit in the corner and quietly wait, like an ABC watching mouse......

1. Who was the most underrated character on AW? Explain.

Pat Randolph. Her story pretty much opened the show, and then she was saddled with an older man, and a bunch marital discord stories and then sort of became an afterthought once Cecile was done with her. I think Lemay was the only one who saw any real story potential in the character.

2. Who was the most overrated character on AW? Tell us why.

Controversial choice. Mac Cory. I loved Mac, but Mac was given saint status. He was an aging playboy who liked younger women. He is given credit for redeeming Rachel, but he saw a young beautiful woman with daddy issues looking for a better life and sort of pounced. So they both got something out of the deal. And his insecurities were always breaking up the marriage.

3. What was your favorite storyline.

Who Shot Jake?

R264 That's Ada!

Ain't that a kick in the cunt!

Someone confusing me with Liz Matthews.

Here's a quick way to tell us apart. Liz would never been seen with a dish towel on her shoulder.

I, on the other hand, would never bee seen with a glass to my ear eavesdropping on people's conversations. I'd just barge right on in and join the conversation.

R263 Point taken, though Cecile was more permanent in earlier years.

She kind of went from a bit of an Iris copy, to more of a man stealer, and then a bit more comic relief.

Agree that Shannon had a clearer through line, though even Marland didn't have a clear grip on her when she returned.

Oakdale characters were easier to get to know. All those gossip-as-exposition scenes that started in Act 3 were so wonderful. Very human, and they made it easy to understand who was who to whom. I lived for Act 3 in Oakdale.

OMG! I also think Cecile is over-rated, but have been afraid to admit it on DL! I started watching late 80s/early 90s, too.

I agree with @265 as well. I didn't start watching until after Mac had died, but his name was continually spoken in hushed, reverential tones, it got to be sickening. When the magic of YouTube let me go back and watch samplings of the Mac years, I couldn't believe what a pompous windbag he was. THIS was the Great Love of Rachel's life?!

Thanks for allowing me to get this confession off my chest.

Got it!! Aunt Liz is that brunette lady- Ms. Ilene Dailey!!!!

My sweet Ada is the hardcore lesbo from the 50's movies who beats down ladies with her dishtowel.

I am addicted to that video of her dressing down some blonde chick in 1986, explaining that YOU DO NOT LIVE BEYOND YOUR MEANS!!!!!!!!!!!! (I think the dishtowel is on shoulder)

On OLTL, there was NO such talk. Everyone was rich. Scheming.

Love this thread.

And you guys truly introduced me to Ms. McKInsey. WHAT A FUCKING ACTRESS!!!! AW and GL!!!! No Emmy!????????? Bullshit.

[quote]I am addicted to that video of her dressing down some blonde chick in 1986

Ada delivering a mighty kick in the cunt.

Sylvia - Mac was a much more interesting character than a lot of the YT snippets suggest....though I will say, as much as I loved the actor who played him, Mac became a bit of a bore after he and Rachel reunited for the second time.

And that scene at R272 - Connie was reading cue cards and STILL gave a helluva performance!

[quote]Aunt Liz is that brunette lady- Ms. Ilene Dailey!!!!

Almost. Ms. I[bold]r[/bold]ene Dailey!!!!

1. Who was the most underrated character on AW? Sharlene -- both her portrayers won Emmys and Anna Holbrook's Sharlene hearkened back to LeMay's 70s-era class conflict. As AW (and all soaps) focused on the ultra-rich in the 80s and 90s, Sharlene was a grounding presence. Plus, Holbrook is never mentioned in the same breath as the great AW divas -- Wyndham, McKinsey, Dano, Stuart -- and I think she should be.

2. Who was the most overrated character on AW? Mitch Blake. Mostly because William Grey Espy, while very good looking, was a terrible, terrible, terrible actor -- and he was was paired with two of the show's most dynamic actresses, who had to do all the heavy lifting in every scene with him.

3. What was your favorite storyline? Rachel rescues Mac in St. Croix. Even Espy couldn't ruin this impeccably produced sequence of shows. (Besides, all he had to really do was look pretty in the sunshine.) Other than that, the long-running Rachel-Iris rivalry, when McKinsey was in the role.

While Irene Daily is the Liz we loved best, let's not forget that Audra "Mrs Roper" Lindley played Liz to much acclaim in the early days.

Fun fact, Three's Company, had three classic AW actors on the show (Lindley, Jordan Charney, and Ann Wedgeworth) as series regular at one time or another.

[quote]While Irene Daily is the Liz we loved best, let's not forget that Audra "Mrs Roper" Lindley played Liz to much acclaim in the early days.

Yes, as we have heard (and heard and heard). [italic]My[/italic] Aunt Liz was played by Irene Dailey, and that's that.

I have very dim memories of Lindley's LIz -- she was not at all sympathetic and often downright scary ... not at all like Daily's warmer, more humorous interpretation.

[quote]He was an aging playboy who liked younger women.

Despite that playboy background, when Mac first came to Bay City, Iris was trying to set him up with Liz Matthews. Pushed very hard for a Liz-Mac marriage. And then of course, Mac met Rachel and soon Liz was history.

Liz bitterly hated Rachel for stealing Mac away from her for while. Then that story element was dropped without explanation. Or if was, it was dealt with in just a day. A day I happened to miss. By the late 70s, while Lemay was still HW, Liz was a strong supporter of Rachel.

Liz did get on the Mac and Rachel train rather quickly. You would think a character like Liz would have held a grudge against Rachel for years, just for what she did to Alice. I know my Grandma did. It was almost funny how much she hated Rachel. She would never let it go. She also didn't like Julie on Days for similar reasons.

Ha! Rachel and Julie were my favorite soap characters, precisely because they had so many shades of gray.

I'll shut up about my Grandma after this story. At one point Rachel miscarried and my Grandma (who always ironed during AW) put her iron down and said serves her right for sending those baby clothes to Alice. Of course, I had no idea what she was talking about (or what a miscarriage was at that point) and Grandma told me the story of Rachel sending Alice baby clothes after her miscarriage.

[quote] At one point Rachel miscarried and my Grandma (who always ironed during AW) put her iron down and said serves her right for sending those baby clothes to Alice.

MARY!

GRANDMA!

Happy 62nd birthday Russell Todd!

I still wish I could be locked in a room with all four adult Jamies.

Audra Linley's Aunt Liz was always casting shade on poorer in law Mary Matthews. Those scenes were soap gold and the overrated hack Pete Lemay didn't write them. The classic AW was before that drunk showed up. The theat-uh actors Rauch and Lemay cast were out of their depth on a soap opera.

R276 Anna Holbrook works on stage a lot. I saw her about a year ago in "Daniel's Husband": Daniel and Mitchell are the perfect couple. Perfect house, perfect friends – even a mother who wants them married. They’d have the perfect wedding, too, except that Mitchell doesn’t believe in gay marriage. A turn of events puts their perfect life in jeopardy, and Mitchell is thrust into a future where even his love may not prove to be enough. Daniel’s Husband is a bold reflection of love, commitment, and family in our perilous new world. (Official website).

About a month or so ago, she appeared as the off stage voice of Bess Myserson in a play by Bess's real life daughter who narrates. Anna came out at curtain call, and I was in view of her, so I gave her a huge round of applause to let her know I recognized her. I could see her touch her heart and look at me in appreciation. She still looks gorgeous!

Anna Holbrook is a gem of a person. I knew her professionally in the mid nineties. She is warm, gracious and talented. She’s one of the good ones.

The character of Mac Cory was first played by character actor Robert Emhardt, debuting in 1973.I was watching AW at that point but honestly don't recall the character, that's how minor a character he was. Likely his primary function was to be a talk-to character for Iris.

Douglass Watson took over the role in Aug 1974. Clearly he was recast because Harding Lemay had plans to make him a major character in preparation for expanding to 60 mins in Jan. 1975. A a mere 6 months after Watson debuted, Mac and Rachel were married for the first time -- on Feb. 14, 1975.

Yes, Mac could come across as a windbag. He was rich and got whatever he wanted. But he could also be charming. However, it was really the marriage to Rachel that fleshed out the character. That was especially true after their first separation, the first of many. That separation came about 5-6 months after the marriage when Mac accused Rachel of having an affair with Phillip Wainwright, whom Iris had hired to seduce Rachel away from Mac.

Even after Mac learned the truth, Rachel didn't immediately return to him. She was hurt that Mac hadn't trusted her in the first place. Mac had to really struggle to get her back -- likely the first time in his life he'd had to struggle for anything. That's when Mac really grew as a character, added shades of grey. That's when I started to really like Mac.

Lemay and then Tom King after him were really the only HWs who captured the multifaceted nature of the character. Subsequent writers really just reverted to presenting Mac as a benevolent rich man and loving father. I suspect that's where the St. Mac characterization came from. But for many of us who had watched Mac grow as a character, we were already in love with the character. Becoming a saint wasn't that much of a stretch.

The link below is to a nice write up of the Mac-Rachel relationship. It's long but well written. However, it's somewhat skimpy on the exact details that happened under Lemay's tenure in the 1970s, the period when Mac grew as a character. But it has lots details about Mac and Rachel from about 1979 forward.

It would have been nice to have seen more of Forrest Compton as Mac's brother, Alfred. Ann Flood was on the show around the same time as a Cory employee named Rose Livingston, taking that part on immediately after falling off the roof as the psycho Ella Hobbs on "Search For Tomorrow". Rose was gracious and sophisticated.

Frankly, I was surprised when Neal Cory showed up in town in late 1985 followed six months later by Adam Cory. Mac had never mentioned anything about an extended family. Everything about the character had indicated he was an only child, although I don't think it was ever explicitly said he was an only child. Iris certainly never mentioned anything about spending time with Uncle Alfred or any cousins while growing up.

According to the AW Homepage, Alfred Cory and his wife Vivian were only on for two episodes in Jan 1987. Yes, it would have been nice to see Alfred stick around longer. IF they're going to extend the Cory family, then let us see it! Let us get to know the family!

But the writing was so bad in 1987, it wasn't to be. As I've said many times before, 1987 and early 1988 was one of the worst periods of the show. EVER! Second worst might be 1982.

Anna Holbrook is a treasure!

Like our Anna Banana.

R289 That is great to hear, it was a breath of fresh air and a change of pace when her story started in mid-1988. A nice, relatable down to earth character, amidst the town's upper-class hijinx. I think this is one of Anna's first scenes in Sharlene's farmhouse kitchen.

Also in mid-1988, right before Sharlene, they bought in another working-class heroine to couple up with John Hudson in the form of lady construction worker Chris Macaleer. Chris' introduction at 13.15.

That hour of Matt Crane in a bathing suit posted above will carry me through these dark times, I was 18 in 1988 and thought he was the most beautiful boy ever.

And even though I was watching back then, I never remembered Gabrielle Carteris being on AW.

Why did Denise Alexander bomb as Mary McKinnon?

This episode opens with Donna using an adding machine with a pencil! DL LEGEND

R298 Sylvia! Great catch!

I think Mary’s story failed for a couple of reasons.

First, they wrote out or recast most of the McKinnons within 6 months of her arrival-Kathleen and Jake left within three months, Vince was recast, they introduced another McKinnon daughter (Cheryl) and MJ left at the end of the Sin Stalker storyline.

Also, her storyline was dumb-she had been kidnapped by Reginald Love and had amnesia and adopted a son with him (Scott).

Also, the show was in upheaval during her arrival, with many other long term or popular characters getting written out or recast at the same time. In addition to the McKinnons, Larry, Clarice, Donna, Vicky, Marley, Jamie, Liz, Sally and Catlin were written out or recast.

It’s like Maggie DePriesr took those rules of Doug Marland and decided to do the opposite.

Denise would have been better as a different character-maybe Adam Cory’s mother, or a recast Frame or Matthews family member. Also, Chris Robinson should’ve come onboard earlier as her love interest.

I think the story failed because Mary worked better with Reginald. They had her discover the truth and then just walk away from her Marissa LaSalle (I can't believe I remembered her name) life and return to being Mary McKinnon. They should have played the emotional beats of the story and made Reginald more "grey". They could have done the push/pull of Marissa versus Mary. They also should have never dropped the triplets storyline, which would have added to the emotional beats of the story and would have made the Love family even more complex.

That was the stretch of AW for me that, from around 82 on, the show seemed to pick up the puzzle and just throw the pieces in the air every 6-12 months.

Maybe that's why I appreciated the whole Lemay 1988 thing, even if it was short lived. The characters seemed to have a focus for the first time in a while.

I wish the P&G publicity department had heralded Harding's return more greatly in 1987.

I remember Rachel and Sharlene going at it; they found gold in Anna Holbrook and the have/have not writing was brilliant. Rachel wasn't always rich either, making the scenes so much more...well, rich.

If they had only been smart enough to have kept Harding. The show would have done so much better. In time, I suspect he'd have rejuvenated the Matthews clan.

Ah, well. we have many great memories and clips on YouTube. And I can read Eight Years in Another World any day.

Had I been running GH or ABC Daytime when Y&R overtook it in the ratings, I would have gone to Doug Marland and seen how happy he was at CBS. and begged him to come back.

I watched the Mary McKinnon storyline on Youtube a year or so ago. Denise is so compelling and she worked so well with the oldest daughter that I was completely enthralled. The problem was never her. It was the men around her. Vince, Reginald, Jason, and Scott were all too weak for her. The only time Mary had any scenes with a man that actually sparked were her scenes with John Hudson.

Reginald was a terrible character and the actor was awful.

Agreed, Sylvia. I hated him, and not in the fun Roger Thorpe/James Stenbeck way.

It didn’t help that John Considine (the actor who played Reginald ) had played a different part on the show in the 70s for a few years, Vic Hastings. He had also been on Santa Barbara for several months prior to joining AW as CC Capwell’s brother Grant, and both characters were played the same way.

He was actually handsome as a younger actor, but had all the sensuality of Alex Trebek as Reg.

John Considine played Reginald as a cartoon. Snydley Whiplash twirling his mustache.

Denise Alexander got special billing on Another World

And

Denise Alexander

as

Mary McKinnon

I was never much of a fan of Sharlene when she originally came to town in the 1970s. But when she returned in 1988 played by Anna Holbrock, I came to really like Sharlene.

I especially enjoyed the Sharlene struggling to pay the bills storyline when she first returned to town. Haves and have not storylines can be so fascinating if done right. I especially enjoyed Sharlene's scenes with Rachel. She brought out a nice quality in Vicky Wyndham that was rarely seen.

As much as I liked Sharlene when Holbrock first started playing her, I came to dislike the storylines they were giving her after a few years. Taylor Benson as her stalker! Sharley as her alternate personality! Klling her off then bringing her back with a whole new family in tow!

That said, Anna Holbrock did a fantastic job with whatever the writers gave her. And her Emmy was well deserved!!

I

R312 Anna Holbrook Emmy Reel

R306, he was better and far, far more likable as Vic Hastings, an AW character from the 70s.

Denise should have been a re-cast Susan Shearer. Imagine Irene Dailey and Denise as mother/daughter. That could have been a way to reintroduce the Matthews clan. If Jacquie and Bev P were still around it would have been even better.

[quote]Denise should have been a re-cast Susan Shearer. Imagine Irene Dailey and Denise as mother/daughter.

What an intriguing idea!

Wonder if Vicky Wyndham felt her position as queen bee was threatened when AW cast Denise Alexander as Mary McKinnon. Back in the 70s and early 80s, Denise was as big a star as Vicky was. Maybe even bigger since GH was such a ratings powerhouse.

Mary served a very different role from Rachel, though. Mary was clearly designed to be more of a Bea Reardon or Emma Snyder earth mother type (with some more sex appeal and fire). They had her talking about having forgotten or left her children over and over.

[quote]Wonder if Vicky Wyndham felt her position as queen bee was threatened when AW cast Denise Alexander as Mary McKinnon.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me like VW never got caught up in all that stuff. At least if you believe the few interviews she's given over the years. And if she pulled diva antics, it never showed up in story. If you look at the other actresses in her peer group, VW wasn't getting a front burner story or an Emmy bait story every season. And in all of her interviews she always referred to the show as a "company" which is something you don't hear a lot of soap actors say when talking about the show. The only times she seems to have gotten pissed off was when they interfered with the Carl/Rachel story and it is rumored that she detested Michael Malone. But other than that, I think it really was just a job for her. I would also argue that Beverlee McKinsey was the same way.

I don't recall Rachel and Mary sharing scenes. They may have interacted here and there, but their storylines rarely crossed.

Mary had many, many scenes with Ada, running Mary's Place. But I don't remember Mary and Rachel really interacting, even once they moved Mary into the hospital.

R295 Mary Layne was great as Chris. I recognized her instantly as Camilla Devereaux, Ian's sister on "The Edge of Night" from a few years before. I believe Chris had been in the military (or maybe the Red Cross) and while overseas, became shell-shocked, kidnapping Donna and Michaels' adopted son (forgot his name....).

[quote]Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me like VW never got caught up in all that stuff.

Yeah, she didn't really play the game. I don't think she even submitted anything to the Emmys for years and years.

VW and Bev did submit a few years in the 70s but both gave it up after a few seasons. It wasn't important to them, it seems.

[QUOTE]Donna and Michaels' adopted son (forgot his name....).

Mikey. (He was in one of those early June episodes someone above linked us to earlier this week.)

The original Jim and Liz Matthews (John Beal and Sarah Cunningham) were apparently fired after the first episode or so by Irna Phillips because the sponsors didn't like the fact that they had hired blacklisted actors. Beal had been a B leading man in 1930's programmers, and Cunningham later went onto play Cliff and Pamela's aunt Maggie on "Dallas". She had a heart attack and died at the 1986 Academy Awards. Sarah was ironically married to an actor named John Randolph!

Denise was the biggest star; she jumped from DAYS to GH and that was huge; they paid her SO MUCH.

Doug's story of Lesley taking the wrap for Laura killing David brought the show from #9 to #2 (along with other solid stories).

Kids are lucky to get 'don't slam the door' let alone having a mother love her child so much that she would go to jail (which Lesley did).

I don't recall NBC doing any special publicity when Denise started at AW in summer 1986. This was a huge get. As r327 said, she was a giant star in the soap world, although her star had been somewhat eclipsed by her TV daughter's stardom during the Luke and Laura heyday.

NBC went on a hiring spree, booking stars of ABC and CBS soaps to the NBC shows to lure new viewers. They certain did an ad campaign for the stars they booked on Santa Barbara, emphasizing the actors' old show and how they were now on Santa Barbara. Robin Matson saying, "Hospitals in general are OK, but I'd rather be in Santa Barbara" Kristin Meadows saying, "I only have one life to live and I want to live it in Santa Barbara." Lenore Kasdorf saying, "A guiding light brought me to Santa Barbara."

But there was no accompanying ad campaign for the ABC stars they booked to AW. Or if there was, it was so small I missed it. They should have been promoting the hell out of getting Denise Alexander!

That said, there also wasn't much of a publicity campaign when Days booked Genie Francis about six months after Denise started on AW. I guess like mother, like daughter?

This has to be one of GH's greatest moments ever. And God bless Pat Falken Smith for taking the story that Doug had laid down and seeing it through.

Monica was thisclose to divorcing Alan and marrying Rick, who had split from Lesley so he could marry Monica because he believed, wrongly, that A.J. was his.

Alan blabs to the whole town at a gala that he -- not anyone else -- is the father of Alan Quartermaine Jr.

Rick blasts Monica for betraying him. Monica struggles to regroup when Lesley wants a few words. The two women have a showdown and Lesley slaps her when Monica says she and Rick used to laugh at her in bed.

Great supporting cast (Lee and Gail!) This is when soaps were written for women, people who loved watching solid drama, long waits and great payoffs!

AW fans, we've got to keep these AW and P&G threads going! They're a lifeline for some of us right now. A good distraction from the craziness of a coronavirus world.

So, please keep posting on these threads. Don't let them languish!

I for one have been downloading every episode from the 1991-92 season and backing it up to my own personal server. I'm gonna be like the Omega Man, but with soaps!

I wonder what the show would be like if it were on today. Would Vicky and Jake still be the main couple? Would Kirkland Harrison and Elizabeth Hutchins be the hot young couple? Would Amanda still be time traveling? Would Lindsay Lohan be available to play Ali again?

What did everyone think of the AW people going over to ATWT after AW bit the dust. Jake, Cass, Vicky and Donna were the ones who made appearances, but only Jake became a major character. I thought he had a good pairing with Molly, and Jake's death scene in her arms was heartbreaking.

What did everyone think of the AW people going over to ATWT after AW bit the dust. Jake, Cass, Vicky and Donna were the ones who made appearances, but only Jake became a major character. I thought he had a good pairing with Molly, and Jake's death scene in her arms was heartbreaking.

R334 I liked it and I'd never watched As The World Turns before. I had watched Another World since the 1970s and did not even realize the two shows were connected, but ATWT quickly became like home to me as the similarities between them were quite strong. Nevermind the cross overs were a flop, and As The World Turns went sharply downhill after a couple of years. I appreciated the years I got when the show was good, and all the surprising ways they made Another World live on a while longer.

I was deep into online ATWT fandom when the crossover happened, and the online ATWT fans were livid! They thought the AW characters were taking time away from their favorites, especially the ones who had been in storyline Siberia where a while.

I think Jake was a good addition, and his relationship with Molly worked. The rest actually hardly did much. Cass and Lila passed through in less than a week. Marley and Donna made brief appearances. It was really only Vicky who took up a lot of screen time along with Jake.

I thought it worked. But longtime ATWT fans HATED it.

r336 As if the then-current iteration of World Turns was something worth watching. Please!

I started watching ATWT to see how they would handle the AW characters. I'd seen some ATWT episodes here and there, but was not a regular viewer until AW was cancelled.

I sincerely doubt I would have started watching ATWT regularly if its hadn't been for sending Jake and the others to Oakdale. I never felt like Jake fit in entirely with the rest of the Oakdale canvas, but it seemed to be handled fairly well. However, it was obvious the show didn't really want Jake there given that they killed him off the moment Tom Eplin's contract was up.

I can certainly understand why longtime ATWT viewers hated the AW arrivals. But then, lots of GH fans complained when three OLTL characters arrived in Port Charles shortly after OLTL was canceled. It's just par for the course.

[quote] As if the then-current iteration of World Turns was something worth watching. Please!

Well, that was the fans' point. They thought the energy spent on Jake and Vicky's storyline should be spent on Lisa and Kim & Bob and Tom & Margo and so on. Fix OUR characters first before bringing on these interlopers.

Except, Jef, the show (ATWT) had been broken for so many years by that point, there was no logical reason to expect Lisa, Kim, Bob, Tom, Margo—and ANDY!—to suddenly return to their former paramount positions. It had been shat upon for too many years by the evil bitchcunts from ABC, may they be burning in hell as we speak.

The sudden arrival of Jake and Vicky meant less time for trashcunts like Carly, Katie, and nuMeg, not Kim, Bob, and Lisa.

I understand your point of view, I'm just telling you what longtime ATWT felt.

I loved the Harding Lemay years at AW

the Douglas Marland, Dobson and some of the Hogan years at Atwt

I also loved the Dobson, Marland, and Long years at GL.

Give me those to watch the rest of my life and I'd be happy

I was an ATWT fan. At the time, we had AW characters come on to the show. We had the show move to the AW studios in Brooklyn. We got the AW executive producer and the AW head writer. There was a certain feeling of, "Why are we trying to be more like the show that just got canceled?"

[quote] We had the show move to the AW studios in Brooklyn.

CBS kicked them out of the building they were using for 15 years (CBS claiming they needed more office space) - at the time P&G were in the process of building a studio to house both ATWT & GL - those plans fell through.

P&G looked for studio space and the only one that was available was the empty Brooklyn studios

Irony is that CBS gave up on converting ATWT old studio space for new office space, so Guiding Light moved into that space after they were kicked out of their studios

One of the few early 90s storylines that I didn't like: Iris, the blue collar guy, and the blue collar guy's annoying kid.

perhaps even more surreal than the late Carmen Duncan taking over for Beverlee as Iris was Carmen subbing for Lisa on ATWT when Fulton was out.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Must have been pretty early on in the 2000s since I think Carmen moved back to Australia not long after.

Jake and Molly worked well together. The problem was that Tom Eplin was so overweight by then that he couldn't do any shirtless/bedroom scenes.

Jake and Molly worked well together. The problem was that Tom Eplin was so overweight by then that he couldn't do any shirtless/bedroom scenes.

Nothing worked well that Molly was in. I hated her almost as much as Carly and Katie. A real show-ruiner, that one.

I liked Molly at first. I like Lesli Kay in general.

I want this to play when I get out of bed on these quarantine days.

That's my favorite of the AW themes, r352. Incorporated the trademark interlocking circles while updating the music nicely.

I was never a fan of the Crystal Gale "You Take Me Away to Another World" theme. But it was miles better than JFP's ER inspired final theme

New thread, as the GL thread that was up is paywalled and this may be soon too....recombined them into one