Is Vivien Leigh the greatest waste of acting talent in history?
He performances in Gone with the Wind and A Streetcar Named Desire should still make the top 5 of any list of greatest female film performances. Waterloo Bridge is an underrated gem. She was greater than Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman, Katherine Hepburn, Joan Crawford and any other actress of her time. She deserved to have the filmography to match instead of wasting her time on the stage with Larry Olivier.
I know she was mentally ill and sickly but she still could have pushed out more gems without the distraction of her toxic marriage.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 158 | February 29, 2020 3:59 PM
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Olivier said if she had stuck to Hollywood films they would have given her Oscar after Oscar. Instead, he said, she felt she had to compete against and thus was compelled to perform on stage.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | February 4, 2020 6:55 PM
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SHE WAS TOO BEAUTIFUL to be taken seriously! Not brad Pitt. And he drove her insane.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | February 4, 2020 6:56 PM
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She was good in Gone with the Wind and A Streetcar Named Desire because she played herself. Other than that, she was a great cold beauty.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | February 4, 2020 6:56 PM
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[quote] Instead, he said, she felt she had to compete against and thus was compelled to perform on stage.
I meant to write “she felt she to compete against him”.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | February 4, 2020 7:01 PM
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r3 Though you can make an argument that both characters matched different aspects of her psyche, the roles were vastly different. Her character in Waterloo Bridge isn't anything like how she was described and it’s still a very beautiful performance. Her earlier UK films were low quality but very comedic in nature. She was more than just a cold beauty. The fact that she could show so much with just her eyes already put her far ahead of her time. Scarlett O’Hara is so much more nuanced than anything from that time.
by Anonymous | reply 5 | February 4, 2020 7:01 PM
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I really think she could have pulled off "Rebecca". What other roles could she have played?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 6 | February 4, 2020 7:02 PM
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Too beautiful for Rebecca.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | February 4, 2020 7:04 PM
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[Quote] Instead, he said, she felt she had to compete against and thus was compelled to perform on stage.
Oh, as if Olivier was forced to have Leigh as his co-star.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | February 4, 2020 7:04 PM
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Could she have played in BLACK NARCISSUS?
by Anonymous | reply 9 | February 4, 2020 7:05 PM
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No one else could’ve played Scarlett. No one.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | February 4, 2020 7:05 PM
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"I could just about look at Joan Crawford's face on a Southern plantation at 6:00 in the morning; I couldn't possibly look at Bette Davis's."
by Anonymous | reply 11 | February 4, 2020 7:06 PM
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Leigh was big in a time over-acting was the norm in movies. Naturalistic acting came into vogue later--not sure how well she would have done there.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | February 4, 2020 7:08 PM
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Ah my old co-star! I very graciously agreed to be considered a "Supporting Actress" which allowed her to win! Many people, of course, knew I was too big of a star!
by Anonymous | reply 13 | February 4, 2020 7:09 PM
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No, that would be Richard Burton.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | February 4, 2020 7:11 PM
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R3 An upper crust Englishwoman playing histrionic southern belles, young and old, was playing herself?
by Anonymous | reply 15 | February 4, 2020 7:12 PM
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“No one else could’ve played Scarlett. No one.”
Thank you for those nourishing words, R10. As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | February 4, 2020 7:12 PM
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She was great in "That Hamilton Woman".
by Anonymous | reply 17 | February 4, 2020 7:19 PM
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Hon, she didn't even do sanity.
by Anonymous | reply 19 | February 4, 2020 7:40 PM
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Eh.... a little of her went a long way. She’s good in GWTW and STREETCAR, but those are great parts.
by Anonymous | reply 20 | February 4, 2020 7:54 PM
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Have none of you seen THE ROMAN SPRING OF MRS. STONE?
by Anonymous | reply 21 | February 4, 2020 8:18 PM
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not really, but she really was just lovely to look at...
by Anonymous | reply 22 | February 4, 2020 8:19 PM
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R21 Yeah, She was really good in it. But again she was only playing herself.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | February 4, 2020 8:34 PM
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r23 Well she was an incredibly complex woman if every role was just a different version of herself. Cunt
by Anonymous | reply 24 | February 4, 2020 8:37 PM
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"Only playing herself" shows that you don't know shit about performance.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | February 4, 2020 8:44 PM
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She never really struck me as a particularly natural actress onscreen (though she wasn't nearly as unnatural and theatrical as Olivier was) and she lacked versatility. I imagine she was a much better actress onstage. And I wasn't really impressed by her take on Blanche DuBois. She gave by far the weakest and hammiest performance of the four leads.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | February 4, 2020 8:45 PM
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You can't be weak AND hammy.
by Anonymous | reply 27 | February 4, 2020 8:47 PM
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She did a lot of stage work, that's why she didn't do a ton of films
So I wouldn't say her talent was wasted
by Anonymous | reply 28 | February 4, 2020 8:47 PM
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[quote]Other than that, she was a great cold beauty.
No. Hedy Lamarr was a cold beauty.
Viv had fire.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | February 4, 2020 8:51 PM
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[quote] Hedy Lamarr was a cold beauty.
It’s Hedley!
by Anonymous | reply 31 | February 4, 2020 8:59 PM
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I've only ever seen her in two movies. Gone with the wind, and Streetcar. In both, she was so melodramatic, but I realize in Streetcar it was intentional, because the other actors played their characters in a very authentic natural style. But when you get the scene where she describes her gay boyfriend being torn apart by the Moroccan men, I always cringe at her over the top performance.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | February 4, 2020 9:00 PM
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Most everything out of the mouth of Scarlett or Blanche was meant to convince someone of something.
Both characters were practically constantly manipulating someone for some reason or end.
That’s how manipulators sound when they gaslight, or play the victim, or pretend innocence, R32.
by Anonymous | reply 34 | February 4, 2020 9:10 PM
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she did the stage because he was running the theatre. it was probably the easiest way to stay close to him. also, women back then put their career way behind supporting their husband's. this is especially true of the class they were both in.
if they had been separated constantly with him doing productions and running the company, and her abroad filming, their marriage probably would have broken up much more quickly.
then again, that might have been better for both of them.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | February 4, 2020 9:18 PM
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Stage acting, at least then was always exaggerated, wasn't it?
by Anonymous | reply 36 | February 4, 2020 9:19 PM
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R32 , I think the Moroccans was Liz Taylor in SLS , and Blanches beau committed suicide .
by Anonymous | reply 37 | February 4, 2020 9:40 PM
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Whatevs. Tennessee Williams was such a drama queen! My god! The histrionics!
by Anonymous | reply 38 | February 4, 2020 10:00 PM
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[quote]R21 Have none of you seen THE ROMAN SPRING OF MRS. STONE?
Yes. She’s staid and brittle in it.
Helen Mirren created a much more interesting characterization.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | February 4, 2020 11:30 PM
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r26 Datalongue has so many pseudo intellectual contrarians.
by Anonymous | reply 40 | February 5, 2020 12:51 PM
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Leigh wasn't very successful onstage. Kenneth Tynan, the major critic of the time, ripped into her repeatedly. Olivier was furious about it, but not furious enough to stop casting her and subjecting her to it. Tynan was probably right: anyone can hear she doesn't have a stage voice. It's too high and thin. Particularly when we're talking of an era before stage actors were miked. And voice has a lot to do with presence on stage. It was torturous that she was always playing opposite Olivier, who did have a Voice and who was adored by critics and public alike, despite his overacting and persistent queeniness when supposedly in character.
She was, however, responsible for an excellent Noel Coward quip. She played Lavinia in Titus Andronicus opposite Larry. There is a scene where she has been raped, and so she couldn't identify him the rapist has cut off her hands and cut out her tongue. In this scene she has to identify him by using a stick to write in the sand with her arms. On opening night she dropped the stick halfway through and couldn't pick it up again - he had to hand it to her. On appearing backstage afterwards, Noel's opening gambit was to wag his finger at her and say, "Butterstumps!"
Should you ever suffer the indignity of having to watch that godawful play, at least you will get some merriment remembering that.
I completely agree, however, that nobody else could have been Scarlett - not then and not since. It is a great pity she didn't do more movies, but another factor may well have been that her psych problems prematurely aged her.
R14 is right about Richard Burton. Leigh's psychological problems were on a gothic scale, but whatever was wrong with Burton quietly stuffed up his whole career. Leigh's highlights were very high: Burton didn't get any of those.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | February 5, 2020 1:57 PM
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Years ago, I read an interview with Honor Blackman, Richard Burton's co-star in a 1950s movie called "Green Grow the Rushes." After recalling that Burton turned his nose up at giving out prizes at a local fete for publicity purposes, Blackman remarked on the irony that he lived the rest of his life "on publicity." It was a fairly on the mark comment.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | February 5, 2020 2:05 PM
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[quote]but another factor may well have been that her psych problems prematurely aged her.
So true. She aged very badly, though no fault of her own, but she did look... weathered and worn.
by Anonymous | reply 43 | February 5, 2020 2:08 PM
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the smoking is probably what aged her. she was a very serious smoker.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | February 5, 2020 2:16 PM
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Burton did give one superb performance onscreen, in VIRGINIA WOOLF, largely due to the strong direction of Mike Nichols, who got the best he and Taylor would do.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | February 5, 2020 3:14 PM
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Those who say she was hammy or a melodramatic actress need to realize that was the acting style back then. Everyone seemed to overact in the films of the 30s and 40s.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | February 5, 2020 3:50 PM
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No, she was hammy and melodramatic.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 47 | February 5, 2020 3:57 PM
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She began her career within the British theater and her greatest friends and colleagues were part of that world. I don’t think she seriously considered continuing her film career because of that. Read the journals and diaries of that period and she’s at the center.
by Anonymous | reply 48 | February 5, 2020 4:16 PM
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I prefer her Anna Karenina to anyone else’s, including the hammy Garbo.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | February 5, 2020 4:18 PM
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Oh, and another thing, theatrical couples were not unusual in the British stage. Most male theatrical managers acted with their wives and they were incredibly popular. Gladys Cooper and Mrs Patrick Campbell are the only female theatrical managers but I don’t think they acted with their husbands.
by Anonymous | reply 50 | February 5, 2020 4:23 PM
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She had a fantastic career as a film star. The camera loved her to the end of her life and she was totally up for any role they offered her, from Tovarich to the Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone. My favorite is Caesar and Cleopatra, which she played with Olivier as Caesar onstage, but I can't imagine him being a better Caesar than Claude Rains.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 51 | February 5, 2020 5:07 PM
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Vivian Leigh is very shrill and annoying.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | February 24, 2020 7:04 AM
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Supposedly she had very large hands and wore gloves a lot to cover this imagined flaw. But she was very lovely. And quite the talent.
by Anonymous | reply 54 | February 24, 2020 9:41 AM
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She was good in the right part (basically playing herself), but not the kind of performer, or star, who could sell anything.
Jesus, I mean HUSH....HUSH, SWEET CHARLOTTE would have been beyond her. And that’s pretty sad.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | February 24, 2020 7:44 PM
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I hate her! I hated period films and old films Because of her. I thought all women were complete whiny bitches never happy with a thing.
Didn't she have bipolar disorder? It shows. She was God awful in A Streetcar named Desire. Spoke so fast like a clucking . Contrasted with the brilliant Brando her acting stinks. Get her off, yuck.
You just like her because she's beautiful. That's all.
by Anonymous | reply 56 | February 24, 2020 8:09 PM
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R56 Really, I find her performance in Streetcar brilliant. Brando's performance, however, seems completely hammy and fake.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | February 24, 2020 8:13 PM
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Brando played a semi-retarded, punch drunkan perfectly. Vivian played the world's most annoying character perfectly too. Ranting and raving like a lunatic, creating her own problems.
by Anonymous | reply 58 | February 24, 2020 8:27 PM
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"She was good in Gone with the Wind and A Streetcar Named Desire because she played herself. Other than that, she was a great cold beauty."
R3 That's absurd. She was a spectacular artist whose performances from stage to screen, from Shaw to Shakespeare and beyond, were nothing but superb.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | February 24, 2020 8:33 PM
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Loved her in SHIP OF FOOLS.
And did anyone see her in TOVARICH onstage? Tony award!
by Anonymous | reply 60 | February 24, 2020 8:35 PM
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She wanted to be a great success on the stage. She did not know how good a screen actress she was and did not push hard for roles. That's ok- Scarlett is one of the greatest performances on screen. Her legacy is made.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | February 24, 2020 8:45 PM
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It's hard to picture anyone but her as Scarlett
by Anonymous | reply 62 | February 24, 2020 8:47 PM
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Bipolar ruins your life and career
by Anonymous | reply 63 | February 24, 2020 9:50 PM
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I said it before and I will say it again...her Anna Karenina is flawless. Much better than Garbo, with her thick accent and hammy mannerisms.
by Anonymous | reply 65 | February 24, 2020 11:32 PM
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Would a "hammy accent" be out of place in a Russian woman? It's not like a Russian woman would have sounded like Vivien Leigh
by Anonymous | reply 66 | February 25, 2020 12:35 AM
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R60, I saw her in TOVARICH and she was delightful. Not a singer by any means and the stories of her breakdowns during performances and backstage are legendary. BUT she had beauty and grace and style and that won her a Tony Award for Best Actress in a Musical. SHIP OF FOOLS - magnificent. STREETCAR is legendary, I like it better than GWTW. No matter how their performances come across now, I would have Killed to have seen Leigh and Olivier on stage together. Back then, it was a given..."Oh, Viv and Larry are coming back to New York next season. Didn't we just see them?" No One Compares to those two today. The legends who have passed on: these two plus Jason Robards, Colleen Dewhurst, Geraldine Page, Julie Harris, Cronyn/Tandy......
by Anonymous | reply 67 | February 25, 2020 3:10 AM
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^^ I'm green with envy re. Tovarich.
by Anonymous | reply 68 | February 25, 2020 5:43 AM
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[quote]R59 She was a spectacular artist whose performances from stage to screen, from Shaw to Shakespeare and beyond, were nothing but superb.
Oh puh-leeeaaaazzzze! Didn’t Kenneth Tynan call her merely “adequate” onstage?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 69 | February 25, 2020 6:16 AM
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I don't give a fuck what Kenneth Tynan said.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | February 25, 2020 6:24 AM
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Waterloo Bridge is such a wonderful film
by Anonymous | reply 71 | February 25, 2020 6:30 AM
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He was the most heralded critic of his country, in your idol’s time. I think he was pretty familiar with her “abilities”.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | February 25, 2020 6:31 AM
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He was the most heralded critic of his country, in your idol’s time. I think he was pretty familiar with her “abilities”.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | February 25, 2020 6:31 AM
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[quote]She was greater than Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman, Katherine Hepburn, Joan Crawford and any other actress of her time.
MARY!
by Anonymous | reply 74 | February 25, 2020 6:34 AM
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"Oh puh-leeeaaaazzzze! Didn’t Kenneth Tynan call her merely “adequate” onstage?"
Kenneth Tynan was an unearable pricklish cunt whose credibility was a mere product of his day.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 75 | February 25, 2020 7:01 AM
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R68 I believe the correct term is, "pea green with envy! "
by Anonymous | reply 77 | February 25, 2020 7:16 AM
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OK STOP. Kenneth Tynan hated her for personal reasons = Larry 's closeted dick. After her death he publicly apologized for his so-so review of her Lady M, which wasn't that bad anyway' ' quite competent, more viper than anaconda' '. He said he regretted it and it was his worst error. She was a phenomenal stage actress. An unparralleled success in the history of english theatre. All the other critics loved her, but of course she had bad critics too, but so did Olivier. She wanted to be a stage actress from the go, loved the theatre, was a major force behind the creation of the National, even though Ploawright reapped what Vivien sow. She didn't care for film acting, like most ' serious' stage actors of her day. Peggy Ashcroft, who was her great rival, didn't have a film career either. It's remarkable, that being given the choice, she chose' 'real' 'art. She didn't care for money. Great Lady
by Anonymous | reply 78 | February 25, 2020 10:26 AM
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Every damn thing she says in every line is at volume hysterical level 💯. So. Un. Necessary and distracting to the story.
by Anonymous | reply 79 | February 25, 2020 10:34 AM
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R79 you need to be cut open from the pubis up to the throat and your guts exposed . But still alive
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 80 | February 25, 2020 11:09 AM
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Olivier was the hammy one. He had a problem toning it down for the screen. His Max De Winter was just terrible. Joan Fontaine and Judith Anderson carry REBECCA, not him.
by Anonymous | reply 81 | February 25, 2020 3:31 PM
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"Every damn thing she says in every line is at volume hysterical level 💯. So. Un. Necessary and distracting to the story."
R79 You're too sensitive. Hypersensitivity makes for poor critics.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | February 25, 2020 5:10 PM
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[quote]she still could have pushed out more gems
Pics please.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | February 25, 2020 5:12 PM
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[quote]She didn't care for money.
R78, that's not quite true. Leigh may not have been interested in money [italic]per se[/italic], but she was something of a spendthrift-- wardrobes full of Dior, furs, as well as amassing an art collection. Spending to excess can be a symptom of mania, and as we now know Vivien was afflicted with bipolar affective disorder.
There's a video on YouTube of a radio interview with Cecil Tennant's widow Irina Baronova in which she describes how Vivien went into a total meltdown when she was told that she couldn't afford to buy as many new designer dresses as she wanted, with the Oliviers' finances being somewhat straitened immediately after the war. The aftermath of that episode is very strange and chilling.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 84 | February 25, 2020 5:27 PM
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Watch CARRIE (the William Wyler one) if you want to see a brilliant and restrained Olivier.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | February 25, 2020 6:21 PM
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She was married to a homosexual
by Anonymous | reply 86 | February 25, 2020 6:45 PM
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I still find it fascinating that Kazan considered both Mary Martin and Lillian Gish to play Blanche--one the eternal flirt, the other the eternal old maid. Maybe combined? With Janet as Stella and Adrian as Stanley!
by Anonymous | reply 87 | February 25, 2020 7:02 PM
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[quote]R84 Vivien went into a total meltdown when she was told that she couldn't afford to buy as many new designer dresses as she wanted, with the Oliviers' finances being somewhat straitened immediately after the war.
If she wanted more dresses, she could have got off her ass and accepted more film roles.
Instead, she preferred to swan around in London as Lady Olivier.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | February 25, 2020 7:12 PM
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Mary Martin? 😆. George Hurrell has been quoted as saying that her film career never really took off because she was so unphotogenic. A low forehead and a prominent jaw. Despite her obvious talent. She didn’t photograph that well. Same with Ethel Merman, who was borderline unattractive.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | February 25, 2020 8:12 PM
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Bordeline? She was a pug singing bass.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | February 25, 2020 9:35 PM
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[quote]R89 Mary Martin?
Yes - amazingly, she was Kazan’s first choice for Blanche. Producer Irene Mayer Selznick wanted Margaret Sullivan, and Tennessee Williams wanted an English actress named Pamela Brown.
None of them got their first choices. The play was surprisingly hard to get stars to commit to, partially because everyone was required to sign a 2 season contract. That ruled out movie people like John Garfield and Burt Lancaster for Stanley.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 91 | February 26, 2020 1:58 AM
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How many people today know who Kenneth Tynan was vs. how many remember Vivien?
by Anonymous | reply 92 | February 26, 2020 2:03 AM
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Well, schizophrenic whores do tend to attract more attention, in general - -
by Anonymous | reply 93 | February 26, 2020 2:10 AM
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Trivia: The little boy who played Melanie's and Ashley's son Beau in Gone With the Wind played the sailor who helps Blanche in the opening scene of Streetcar. He mentioned it to someone on set. When Vivien heard about it, she asked to meet him and spoke with him in her dressing room for nearly an hour. He eventually dropped out of the business but spoke for the rest of his life about her kindness.
by Anonymous | reply 94 | February 26, 2020 2:28 AM
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[quote]R94 When Vivien heard about it, she asked to meet him and spoke with him in her dressing room for nearly an hour...he spoke for the rest of his life about her kindness.
And cocksucking abilities?
by Anonymous | reply 95 | February 26, 2020 2:31 AM
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"Trivia: The little boy who played Melanie's and Ashley's son Beau in Gone With the Wind played the sailor who helps Blanche in the opening scene of Streetcar. He mentioned it to someone on set. When Vivien heard about it, she asked to meet him and spoke with him in her dressing room for nearly an hour."
Mickey Kuhn (He's still alive, btw)
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 96 | February 26, 2020 3:53 AM
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She was too "actress-y". It made her perfect for Blanche but not for anything else. Brando is over the top in places but with such hurt intensity that it's far from simple hysterics.
by Anonymous | reply 97 | February 26, 2020 4:09 AM
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She seems bitter and dried up in the r98 clip.
Aside from Lauren Bacall, I’ve never seen a woman age FASTER!
by Anonymous | reply 101 | February 26, 2020 5:26 AM
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"Instead, she preferred to swan around in London as Lady Olivier."
It wasn't exactly a preference, it was a compulsion. I think it's hard to imagine the degree to which her mental issues controlled her life. Her mania primarily manifested in her sexual compulsivity. The fact that she had such a brilliant career despite the disorder she was dealing with gives her more credit.
by Anonymous | reply 102 | February 26, 2020 7:39 AM
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Ridiculous. Vivien was loaded. She could have bought any Dior dress she wanted. But after the war you couldn't take your money out of england. That's the reason. She was far richer than anyone suspected. She knew how to handle money. Her father was a stockbroker.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | February 26, 2020 9:22 AM
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She was a star of the West end before even meeting Olivier. Working with Gielgud (Shakespeare already), Ivor Novello and A-listers like that. The critics, including Tynan prefered her in comedies. It was not usual at the time to see delicate beauties in the tragedies. But she got rave reviews for Cleopatra, and every body who saw her Lady M will tell you that Tynan was a pig, because she was great. It was personal revenge. Tynan wanted to break the marriage, just like Leigh was determined to break Finch's. She even said to Finch's wife, ' I am going to break that marriage if it's the last thing I do'. Vivien was dangerous. Also, Blanche is MEANT to be melodramatic, because at a level, the play is a metaphor for the disappearence of traditional melodramatic theatre, and the emergence of naturalistic modern theatre and very few actors could have got that right. It was an immense performance.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | February 26, 2020 9:48 AM
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Finch's wife POV (she's not mentioning it here, but in her autobio. :Vivien tried to kill her daughter in one of her manic phase. They were at a party and Vivien suddenly disappered. Tamara suspected something and rushed home. When she arrived home, Vivien had dismissed the nanny and was strangling the little girl).
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 105 | February 26, 2020 9:55 AM
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There are too few like her. I just think the roles just weren't there. The 1940s were garish musicals and some noir films. The 1950s got grittier, but by then she was pushing 40.
Actresses like Davis and Crawford started playing in B-movies to keep working. And bless them for it, because even though not up to the quality of their heyday, the films are still entertaining.
In the 1960s they became the Scream Queens, but those are entertaining, too- if only sometimes in a camp way.
by Anonymous | reply 106 | February 26, 2020 11:08 AM
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[Quote] Vivien tried to kill her daughter in one of her manic phase. They were at a party and Vivien suddenly disappered. Tamara suspected something and rushed home. When she arrived home, Vivien had dismissed the nanny and was strangling the little girl).
Vivien loathed children? DL Icon!
by Anonymous | reply 107 | February 26, 2020 11:10 AM
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Why is a Streetcar Named Desire so great?
Really! You got a great, natural embodying performance by Brando but he's a pig. He's an idiot. You wouldn't want to hang around him. He's sexist and beats his wife.
You got his card table buddy buffoons, sitting around drinking. So dumb, cavalier and flimsy that one of them seriously considers marrying a lady they only recently met, just because she's a lady.
You got an ok seeming woman who's going to have a baby, with a man who beats her. The sex apparently makes up for it. Not really a lot of depth to her character.
Then there's Blanche, a neurotic freak down on her luck, who has no where else to go and moves in with her relative and crappy man. She's nuts, had a history of hooking to make ends meet, and says random things like depending on kindness of strangers. They were right to commit her. The real life actress seemed to be playing herself having a breakdown.
I didn't get the message of this play. Unless it was "Here's a crappy way of life, in a crappy time and place, with crappy people." WHAT am I missing?
by Anonymous | reply 108 | February 26, 2020 11:35 AM
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[quote]There are too few like her. I just think the roles just weren't there. The 1940s were garish musicals and some noir films. The 1950s got grittier, but by then she was pushing 40.
I've always thought that she's hard to cast. Vivien had a steely unsympathetic quality and a keen intelligence that excluded her from more conventional roles. Certainly with her extraordinary looks she wasn't cut out to play housewives or the girl next door. This is part of the reason why she's so brilliant as Scarlett who, while a born survivor, is not what one might call a decent human being and is doomed to make herself and everyone around her miserable with her unyielding selfishness. Leigh would have been the definitive Catherine Earnshaw opposite Olivier in Wuthering Heights, but alas, we are stuck with Merle Oberon.
Vivien's most memorable film roles are complex, conflicted characters-- an intelligence agent (Dark Journey), a ballerina turned prostitute (Waterloo Bridge), a married man's mistress and object of scandal (That Hamilton Woman), an unhappily married woman who pursues a destructive affair with a younger man who treats her fairly appallingly (The Deep Blue Sea), a faded beauty descending into madness (Streetcar-- everyone treats her appallingly in that!). All of these characters end badly one way or another and I can't help wondering what drew her to them. A fascinating legacy from a fascinating woman.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | February 26, 2020 11:53 AM
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If Joan Crawford could persist through the 1950s, Vivien certainly could.
by Anonymous | reply 111 | February 26, 2020 11:55 AM
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Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
by Anonymous | reply 112 | February 26, 2020 12:00 PM
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Viv did do the Southern accents well.
by Anonymous | reply 113 | February 26, 2020 4:45 PM
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R66, I referred to her MANNERISMS as hammy. Not her accent.
by Anonymous | reply 114 | February 26, 2020 4:46 PM
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"Viv did do the Southern accents well."
The South was settled by people from the United Kingdom. There's only a short hop between upper class Atlanta and British dialects.
And of course Cockney is hillbilly (and Australian).
by Anonymous | reply 115 | February 26, 2020 5:09 PM
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She should have been cast in The Sweet Bird of Youth -perfect as an aging movie queen at 50 - instead of the matronly Geraldine Page. She was the right age, well suited for Williams, and having her sharing the screen with Newman is a mouth watering notion.
by Anonymous | reply 116 | February 26, 2020 6:22 PM
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Loved her comic turn in A Yank At Oxford. She should have done more of that. Would have loved to have seen her paired with Cary Grant in a farce.
by Anonymous | reply 117 | February 26, 2020 8:37 PM
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R108 Perfect example of an imbecile who just doesn't get it, happy only when the picture is in color and ends happily.
by Anonymous | reply 118 | February 26, 2020 10:26 PM
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[quote] And of course Cockney is hillbilly (and Australian).
Actually, the hillbilly accent is closer to British "country" accents rather than Cockney. Which makes sense because Cockneys weren't settling the mountains, if they immigrated to America they settled in towns and cities.
by Anonymous | reply 119 | February 27, 2020 1:05 AM
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Haven't read the thread, but isn't she in two of the most iconic movies of all time? I remember when I took some lame theatre class in high school, my drama teacher made us watch Streetcar on the first day of class.
by Anonymous | reply 120 | February 27, 2020 1:09 AM
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Good for your drama teacher. I truly hope you absorbed something.
by Anonymous | reply 121 | February 27, 2020 1:14 AM
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I have loved Vivien Leigh since I was a gayling and get personally offended whenever she is criticized. Joan Collins and Kirk Douglas trashed her in their memoirs and they are dead to me.
Natalie Wood and Jessica Lange were/are major fans. Same with Jaclyn Smith.
by Anonymous | reply 122 | February 27, 2020 2:59 AM
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Miss Leigh had more acting talent in her pinky finger than Miss Collins has in her whole stinking old body.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | February 27, 2020 4:09 AM
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Joan Collins and Kirk douglas were diarrhea shit for people, so fuck what they had to say about VL!
by Anonymous | reply 124 | February 27, 2020 4:14 AM
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Vivien had a little game that freaked her friends out, even before GWTW. It was called ' how to kill a baby ' and was a mime. You had to find imaginative ways to kill a baby. For instance, she would roll down the car Windows and throw the imaginary baby out....
by Anonymous | reply 125 | February 27, 2020 8:49 AM
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Didn’t Vivien dismiss Joan Collins as ‘common’ right to her face when Joan was dating Warren Beatty? I can see why Joan would take umbrage. Also if we’re going to condemn people who said unkind things about Vivien her former husband surely deserves it for his self-serving autobiography.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | February 27, 2020 9:00 AM
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She didn't ' dismiss' Joan right to her face. She fucked her boyfriend right to her face. But maybe that's what you meant.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 127 | February 27, 2020 9:05 AM
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What kind of suit is Beatty wearing in that pic?! He looks like a Batman villain.
by Anonymous | reply 129 | February 27, 2020 9:28 AM
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R41, I laughed out loud at that “butterstumps”’quip of Coward’s.
by Anonymous | reply 130 | February 27, 2020 9:37 AM
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I don't think that Warren is bad at all in RSOMS. In fact he's much better than in B&C. I am half italian. Italians do have the weirdest american accent, and he got that right. His makeup was cringy, but then again, Vivien had MAJOR wig dysfunction in that one. She wanted Alan Bates for the role. She rejected Delon. The american producers wanted a US actor. Alan wasn't told he was up for the part, until the year of his death. He adored Vivien and would have loved to play with her. Was a guest at Notley. Couldn't stand Larry.
by Anonymous | reply 131 | February 27, 2020 9:55 AM
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Olivia... Again.. You were only SUPPORTING Vivien in Gone With the Wind.. Supporting, Olivia. SU-PPO-RTING.
by Anonymous | reply 133 | February 27, 2020 10:48 AM
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She was bitch extraordinaire in Ship of fools
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 136 | February 27, 2020 3:01 PM
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R122 Well, to be fair, Kirk Douglas is now dead to everyone.
by Anonymous | reply 137 | February 27, 2020 7:00 PM
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Has dame Joan crocked yet ?
by Anonymous | reply 138 | February 27, 2020 7:34 PM
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[quote]R122 Natalie Wood and Jessica Lange were/are major fans. Same with Jaclyn Smith.
Has Bootsy Gumdrops weighed in?
by Anonymous | reply 139 | February 27, 2020 9:08 PM
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[quote]R197 Vivien didn't ' dismiss' Joan right to her face. She fucked her boyfriend right to her face.
Warren Beatty had a granny fixation??
Ewww.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | February 27, 2020 9:11 PM
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What would Vivien look like today ?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 142 | February 28, 2020 12:18 AM
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Vivien was a timeless beauty. Yes, she aged quickly but the way she looked in GWTW has not become dated at all and if she were around today the way she looked in the 30's, she'd be a serious contender, as opposed to Garbo, Dietrich, Shearer, etc., all beautiful but very much beauties of their time.
by Anonymous | reply 143 | February 28, 2020 12:45 AM
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I found an interesting footnote re. Leigh and Tynan: In a 1983 interview after his death, Kenneth Tynan's widow derided her husband's vindictive campaign against Leigh as "completely unnecessary". Olivier dismissed it as jealousy; Leigh, however, was adversely affected by his comments.[135]
by Anonymous | reply 144 | February 28, 2020 1:00 AM
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Oh SHE was the one in Ship of Fools.
That was her. I remember there was a sharp actress, tough as nails. It's certainly entertaining to watch but those nails must have also hurt her.
She was very beautiful. Part Armenian and British?
by Anonymous | reply 145 | February 28, 2020 4:20 AM
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Yes, they were very much in love but it wasn't easy. He was bisexual with a monster ego and she was bipolar with an manic sexual appetite. They both fucked around, not surprisingly, but I think she was more out of control than him in the sex department.
by Anonymous | reply 147 | February 28, 2020 6:34 AM
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Her British home was on the market 3 years ago.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 150 | February 28, 2020 6:45 AM
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Her personal possessions were up for auction in 2017, too.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 151 | February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
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[quote]R145 Part Armenian and British?
She was from Nebraska.
by Anonymous | reply 152 | February 28, 2020 7:15 AM
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Most people won’t be associated with even one masterpiece and you listed off a few for her ... how many more movies would you have had her do to not feel as though she was wasted?
Go home OP, you’re drunk
by Anonymous | reply 153 | February 28, 2020 7:24 AM
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R30 Hedy was much more than a cold beauty - she was a smart cold beauty who basically invented WiFi
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 154 | February 28, 2020 7:34 AM
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Never understood why people went gaga over Dietrich or Garbo...
by Anonymous | reply 155 | February 29, 2020 3:41 AM
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They played glamorous foreigners who could enjoy sex.
Garbo’s face was so precise it looked like it had been worked out with a series of slide rules (as noted by Julie Burchill in GIRLS ON FILM.)
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 156 | February 29, 2020 7:50 AM
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Her Broadway musical TOVARICH
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 157 | February 29, 2020 2:44 PM
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R156, Garbo never came across as enjoying sex to me. She rarely had chemistry with her male costars and came across as cold.
by Anonymous | reply 158 | February 29, 2020 3:59 PM
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