Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker is the best portrayal of the villain yet

I did not like Heath Ledger in his role as “Joker”.

Ledger was awesome as Joker but the other 90% of the movie sucked. Maggot Gyllenhaal as the object of two hot men's desires? Never. Bale sucked as Batman.

Maggot

Really? I didn't think it was so great, he just played one-note "crazy" from start to finish.

It was all mood and art direction, and not satisfying to me. Deluxe hambonery, if you ask me!

I hated this movie. Give me Cesar Romero any day.

R5 No.

An iconic performance

I don't have any interest in comic books, so I haven't watched any other of the Batman character movies. But I was blown away by Joaquin's Joker. I rented it after seeing him accept the GG award. I had no expectations; but wow, he did a fantastic job.

I'll take your word for it, OP.

R9 Just tent the damn thing.

At the very least, it’s very entertaining.

Joaquin is a gifted actor. It would have been stronger had the violence been left to the imagination in a Hitchcock type of fashion. Just hearing screaming and not seeing it, save for some blood drops could have been more mysterious and chilling.

Never once did I think I am watching Joaquin Phoenix act. I thought I was really witnessing a man break down. In a podcast with his sisters he said he went another way, acting wise, before changing it to this character we see in the movie. I wonder what that original attempt was like.

I wonder if he clings to his brother when he acts. He brother told him he was going to be an actor. If he acts to connect to him.

I do think it's one of the greatest performances I have seen in a long time.

R11 The violence wasn’t gratuitous, though. From the hype I expected much more gore and brutality.

The two most violent scenes are meant to symbolize the two-step final transformation of Arthur into...

THE JOKER.

[quote]Maggot Gyllenhaal as the object of two hot men's desires?

Never forget the poster who said he heard laughter in the theater after the "Hello, beautiful" line.

I love Maggie!

Phenomenal and legendary!! Even M won't be able to top that.

I want daddy to win Oscah!

Damn, why did you post that gif and spoil the movie, OP and R14? You ruined the shock and surprise of that scene for me. Now I will just be expecting it instead of being shocked as intended.

R19 Boohoofuckinghoo.

I don't know..the last bit the Joker sounded like Paul Lynde

I rented Joker yesterday and when it was over I was thinking, "is THAT it?" The #1 R-rated movie of all time? I thought there'd be a little more to the film than that. Watching Joaquin laugh for nearly two hours and descending into madness was not a fun ride.

Yeah, the subhuman scum who posted that gif spoiled the entire fucking movie.

R22 it wasn't written to be a fun ride, it's a dark gritty character study of a disturbed individual who wasn't treated for mental illness and the snowball effect it has society. Very realistic, too. Mental illness is the single largest contributor to society's ills. Not guns, not drugs, but the deranged among us are the problem. Joker perfectly encompasses that concept. Treat mental illness, and society gets better. Too bad we closed all the mental hospitals, right?

To me, there's no comparison between the Heath and Joaquin. I think both did an absolutely fantastic job with the Joker. The reason why is because to me, Joaquin's journey is Pre-Joker, while Heath is Post-Joker.

It'll be interesting to see if Warner Bros actually does make a sequel to see what Joaquin does with a Post-Joker character, but the possibility if fucking it up is too high. Best to leave on a high note imo.

My favorite used to be Nicholson. New ranking...

1. Phoenix 2. Nicholson 3. Ledger

To be fair, I think all three are incomparably brilliant and deserve Oscars for their Jokers.

I liked the gay joker, Cesar Romero.

Not a film for me. Superheroes/villains. "A descent into madness." Warner-Brothers does "Darkness." Comparisons to Nicholson and Ledger (can Johnny Depp and Leo diCaprio be far behind?) It's cheap, showy shit for the masses who don't know better, who wouldn't know that the best acting is not this full-tilt "craft" shit.

Oookay, so, anyways...

JP is getting Oscah!

It must feel so good to have tastes that are so much more artistically refined than the unwashed masses, doesn't it R28? Please, tell us more about why your opinion is vastly superior to the Academy and millions of other people?

Simplistic and predictable. Not Oscar worthy.

The OP must be Joaquin Phoenix's agent. Heath Ledger's performance as as the Joker is infinitely superior to that of Phoenix. So much more deserving of the Oscar.

Sick of people treating this boring comic book movie like Todd Phillips is Kubrick reincarnated. It's a shitty movie with all the depth of a kiddie pool.

R32 No.

R34 Yes. Nobody could top Heath Ledger's performance. It was perfection.

JP was better than Ledger, who was also brilliant.

JP’s is the first performance to basically tip a hat to all of the film incarnations, including Ledger’s, whilst also giving the most accurate portrayal of the comic book iteration(s).

He was gritty, frightening, heartbreaking perfection.

Pity the script was trite and simplistic!

It was wonderful goddammit!

He was the only good thing about this otherwise mediocre and shamelessly thieving comic book film.

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Glad it is being rereleased in theaters

They took a lot of inspiration from The Last Joke

I agree. I think the director failed to capitalize fully on his performance in some scenes, especially in the final act. It fell a bit flat for me, not because of Joaquin, but because of the directing and editing. And I think they should have left the Batman origin vignette, where his parents are killed in front of him, out. That scene felt painfully intrusive and was unnecessary since it's a film about Joker, not Batman.

If DC was smart they'd focus more on Batman's villains, but... alas.

Joaquin Phoenix has never, never, not once in his life, ever played a role where he was "sexy." His Joker is repulsive, stupid, annoying, pathetic, unlike the performance of Heath Ledger, whose depiction of the character was terrifying, exciting, funny, and indeed oddly sexy.

Joaquin's Joker bored me. We don't need an explanation on how the Joker came to be, the thing that makes the character both interesting and terrifying is that we don't know his origins and that he has no reason to do the things he does. He does horrible, awful things just because he can. To make The Joker a loser who commits crimes because he hates society takes what makes the character great away from him. Joaquin isn't playing the Joker, he's playing Rupert Pupkin. Despite that audiences eat it up, because even if the movie doesn't stick to the comic source material but isn't interesting enough to be a standalone property, they'll watch anything with a DC or Marvel label stamped onto it. We hunger for recycled stories.

I watched the interview on 60 Minutes and I thought his performance as the Joker was indulgent based on what they showed on TV.

R42 I agree about the vignette. It felt a little forced.

Honestly, I wish they would maintained the production as is except they should’ve just adapted The Last Joke storyline.

But his speech about the calla lilies was brilliant.

[quote] And I think they should have left the Batman origin vignette, where his parents are killed in front of him, out. That scene felt painfully intrusive and was unnecessary since it's a film about Joker, not Batman.

It worked for me. It cements, to me, the idea that Arthur Fleck isn't the Joker. He inspired the chaos and anarchy that led someone to target the Waynes. Like Batman is a symbol, Joker becomes a symbol.

R49 See, now I like it.

R47 I'm not that into comic-book movies, or into comic books... but DC has such an embarrassment of riches when it comes to Batman's storylines in the comic books. Imaging if they had done a preceding Batman film with a proper introduction to Barbara Gordon/Batgirl and THEN adapted The Killing Joke!!!!!

Of course, they're also excluding Barabra Gordon/Oracle from the dumb as shit Birds of Prey movie. This upsets me more than I should!!!

It's like DC is so embarrassed by the campy nature of the previous films/tv show that we can't have fun villains or heroes!!! It's fucking Alicia Silverstone's fault, isn't it?

I KNEW I wasn’t using the correct title but was too lazy to do a search. Thanks for being sweetly stealth about correcting me, R51, lol.

I agree, DC has some AMAZING Batman storylines, including those centered around his rogues gallery. I like your idea about including Batgirl and her storyline. Would be riveting and a juicy role for an actress.

Has it already been made clear that this film is going to tie into the upcoming Batman reboot or am I just assuming that?

One storyline I wish they’d adapt as a two-parter is The Long Halloween. That could be so fucking amazing.

[quote]Has it already been made clear that this film is going to tie into the upcoming Batman reboot or am I just assuming that?

Joker is a standalone and won't be connected to the reboot.

[quote]One storyline I wish they’d adapt as a two-parter is The Long Halloween. That could be so fucking amazing.

With all The Riddler, The Penguin and Carmine Falconi being in The Batman with Robert Pattinson I assume they're going to do The Long Halloween.

R53 Ah, thanks for the clarifying tidbits.

I still think they’ll find a way to connect the films. We’ll see.

R52 Haha, no worries about the correction.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again, I think DC would be smart to include Poison Ivy as a villain (or perhaps an antihero) in a film soon. She fits in so well with the current discussion on climate change/environmentalism/conservation. Imagine if Wayne Enterprises were responsible for some sort of environmental catastrophe, Poison Ivy would lose her shit and go after Bruce!!

I’m confused about this movie. Is “Joker” supposed to be the same Joker from Batman? It so, are any of the other Batman characters referenced in the movie? And lastly, is this supposed to be a horror movie? As someone who has never watch any Batman movies but has heard of Joker, this is very confusing.

I LOVE THAT, R55.

Very fuckin’ good!

They change who his parents were killed by in each film. In one movie in the 90s it was Penguin, then Harvey yada yada yada

R56 Well, it's been debated whether "The Joker" in the movie is the REAL Joker. It is a horror movie? No, I wouldn't say so.

I guess the Joker was the movie Zach Snyder wished he made with wooden Henry Cavill and I'm sure Cavill wished he was in that film too.

People say it isn't a comic book movie, but it's a comic book movie. It might not have big CGI battles but it's set in a comic book universe in a comic book city and features comic book characters.

I think people are saying it isn't a comic book film to separate it from the previous DC Cinematic Universe films, which have been god-awful. Who can blame them?

People can call it art all they want, that won't change the big fuckin' DC logo on the poster. If this wins Best Picture or any other important Oscar I'm never seeing another film in theaters again.

I don't view it as a comic book film. To me it's a gritty drama like "King of Comedy" and "Taxi Driver". I don't consider "Logan" a comic book film as it is more grounded than the other X-Men and Wolverine films.

Same with films based on graphic novels like "Ghost World", and "V for Vendetta".

R64 Ripping off Scorsese films doesn't make it a Scorsese film. It's still a DC property, about a DC character, set in Gotham City and featuring characters like Batman. It's a comic book movie, even if the dumber among us see it as a gritty art film. The people that see this movie as comparable to movies like Ghost World are the people who keep actors like Adam Sandler and Kevin James rolling in money. They are the people who laughed at Paul Blart: Mall Cop.

The fact that this is some people's idea of "cinema" depresses me, but the fact that those people tend to be the same people who think Olive Garden and The Cheesecake Factory are fine dining renders that depression moot.

* S P O I L E R*******

I think it was all in his mind- he imagined Zazee as his girfriend, those bloody footprints at the end- he never left Arkham. That's how he never killed the Waynes and how DC can explain how he's different than Leto's Joker- because he's not the "real" one.

Yes, R56, in a scene at the end, a young Bruce Wayne see his parents get shot in an alley. There seems to be a bigger age difference between the future Batman and his villain in this universe.

I'm looking forward to the movie that has the superhero turn to the bad guy and say, hey you know what? You need mental help. Me beating you up is just redundant at this point given what you've gone through in your life. In fact all the beatings in childhood caused that.

Then the superhero removes his mask and it's Jesus. They hug and the villian gets his meds and learns kindness.