Iran Before the Revolution

This was Iran before the revolution.

Very westernized and friends with the U.S.

It was westernized and the gratin was chic. On the other hand, it was a vassal state to Big Oil and most of the wealth went to the Shah, the super powerful, and England & USA.

What has Trump done that caused our embassy to be stormed? He will destroy how many countries before he is done? The man is a menace to our planet.

My mother is from Iran. She came in 1979. I love looking at the pictures of the family from this time. In every picture they were all well styled in the latest fashions.

Can you imagine going from this to a Burka? And not being allowed to leave the house without a male bodyguard/family member?

I feel bad for the people. Your average Iranian wants change. I still hold out hope they can successfully revolt. Yes there is a lot of homophobia, but the new generation is sick of the old guards shit. I wish my people well.

R8 it’s been 40 years

This corrupt, Republican Revolution is about ready to happen to us? Will they call it a Christian Revolution? The Muslim Revolution is the worst thing that ever happened to Iran. Real misery.

To those of you who were there or have heard the stories. How exactly did it work? It was ok to wear a mini skirt one day and the next you were arrested for it? How did they enforce the new rules?

the bots arent even subtle anymore and you guys still fall for it.

Kermit Roosevelt ran the CIA op called Operation Ajax, which overthrew populist Muslim Mossadegh. We installed (reinstalled, backed) Shah Pahlevi and gave them hundreds of millions of aid. From the 50s on, that led to a westernized Iran, with a substantial upper and middle class. Pahlevi and his family were corrupt as fuck but we did have stability there — at a price. The lower classes had nothing. Zero. Which led to the overthrow.

R11 watch The Handmaid’s Tale (first season). The Iranian Revolution was the basis of the novel.

El AL used to fly nonstop to Teheran from Tel Aviv in the 60's

It was cosmopolitan BEFORE the Shah -who was a dictatorial puppet installed by the west after a leader who had the audacity to want to nationalize the oil was removed by the CIA. It didn't start with that greedy family.

Why do so many Americans have such a stunted knowledge of history and can't accept the west's role in what has happened? Only an idiot uses the dumb line "they've been fighting for a thousand years" as if Europe never had wars over thousands of years.

The entire Levant was also cosmopolitan before the west decided to fuck it up. Have some of you actually seen Arab movies from the 50s/60s? It was the gulf states that started the mess along with their alignments with others - as you see with Saudi Arabia and far-right Israel.

Both Tehran and Beirut were supposed to be beautiful and modern (for the time) cities.

It has not been 40 years. Its been since 1901 when oil was discovered. That's the date Persian folks lost a say in their own country. Rinse, repeat around the world.

The fundies taking over was not a picnic of course.

R18 it has been 40 years as an Islamic Republic, prior to that at least women could wear fashion.

[quote][R18] it has been 40 years as an Islamic Republic, prior to that at least women could wear fashion.

Let's not overly glamorize the situation.

The US and CIA overthrew a duly elected government and put Shah Reza Pahlavi in power in 1941 in order to protect oil interests. It's stunning the revisionist view that wikipedia and many other sources now have of his reign.

Not that it's not worse today, but I'd rather actually have rights than simply have the appearance of them.

The shah of Iran held on to power for decades with his violent secret police. It turned the people against him.

After the overthrow, he wanted to come to the US but Carter held off for 10 months. The head of Chase bank brokered a deal to allow the Shah in for medical care. Chase bank was a huge beneficiary of the Shah’s stolen money. Stolen from Iran’s vaults and taxes.

Once Carter let in the Shah, the people got angry at the US and stormed the US embassy in Tehran.

Reagan was able to use that (and the rumored negotiations with Iran’s rulers not to let the hostages go before he was inaugurated) to win the presidency

I often see very rich Iranians in the US who don’t seem to have a viable source of income yet live like Kings.

So many of them also had hidden foreign bank accounts and left when the Shah left. Oligarchs overthrown

LOTS of Iranian (Persian) Jews in the US, particularly in LA. Was Iran more secular before the Revolution and they had to flee or die?

I remember Iranians in Houston before the revolution, protesting the Shah. If only they'd known what would happen once the Shah was out of power. The students were modern and westernized. They just wanted to control their country's destiny. Instead control went from one authoritarian thug to a bunch of theocratic thugs.

[quote]Reagan was able to use that (and the rumored negotiations with Iran’s rulers not to let the hostages go before he was inaugurated) to win the presidency

I've always felt there was a lot more to Iran-Contra than anyone has ever been able to prove after this information came to light.

Why they would agree to such a deal with Reagan about the hostages over whatever promises a sitting president could make is strange. Why Iran's leaders thought that a right wing ideologue from a party that used military action and spent billions on military would be a better choice is strange.

The only explanations for their behavior require such convoluted machinations, such as they wanted an American devil they could demonize to retain their own power, that it actually doesn't make a lot of sense. By all accounts Carter would have been a softer touch in terms of foreign policy toward them than Reagan - unless that deal also included Iran-Contra arms sales.

So was John Perkins (writer of ‘Confessions of an Economic Hitman’) right after all? When I was reading the book, people would scold me for ‘indulging myself in conspiracy nonsense.’

Middle East was much more cosmopolitan back in the day. Many countries had sizable non-Muslim populations-- Jews, Armenians, Greeks and other Europeans.

Read Out of Egypt or The Man In The Sharkskin Suit for a look at what Egypt was like prior to Nasser

Downside was that there were giant disparities in wealth and opportunity and the upper classes had a lock on the political system

I lived in Beirut in the early 1960s, and it was definitely a glamorous city, like living in a James Bond movie.

R27 so a lot like the US today then?

R28 I’ve heard that about Beirut. Was it completely destroyed by the war? It must break your heart.

R29 it still is that way. Beirut and Lebanon in general has the biggest Christian arab population and the Arabic is so inspired by French, English and Italian that Muslims of the country are complaining that it sounds like a different language. Financially it's not doing well but it's just as progressive as Israel.

The Middle East was pretty ok for the time being in the 50s and 60s. A lot of people complain about Islam, but Islam has only shifted radical more recently. There were periods in history when Muslim countries were more relaxed.

Wow that's weird.

So you're telling me that America made it change from cosmopolitan to religious overlord?

How did America do that and why would they want to? Honestly it sounds as preposterous as saying America did away with technical Tokyo and made they go back to feudal Japan. Like how can any country do that?

I just don't think America is that powerful.

America is not the cause. The internal politics and culture eventually destroyed modern Iran.

R32 watch a doc on the History of Iran and the history of Mid East Oil. There are plenty. I can't believe how intellectually lazy you are. Nobody said the USA made Iran to anything. But US, UK and Big Oil was completely involved in everything that happened in Iran and Saudi Arabia as well. For chrissakes. Don't be so simple minded.

It was tres chic in those days. Bowls of cocaine were presented to guests at parties. Nowadays you get a bowl of rice and a Koran. If you're lucky.

Very glam.

I guess we’ll find out, because we are headed for Christian Sharia law here. Those fuckers are still sawing away at abortion rights, and they’re coming for the gays next. They always do.

Tehran is a beautiful, cosmopolitan city. It would be such a shame if war starts and that filth in Washington orders our military to start bombing the city.

Tehran's infrastructure is quite impressive.

Between the Brits and Yanks they've been fucking up Iran for 75 years and they're not about to stop now.

I refuse to believe that place was ever nice to live. They want to throw us off of BUILDINGS! I pray every night to Jesus that we bomb them. Turn that country to GLASS. Its the only way we can sleep soundly.

R38 then why do some of the buildings have Chinese writing on them?

Jesus, in thy infinite mercy blow our enemies into tiny bits!

Probably more effective to pray to Cthulu

The good ole days for both countries.

My best friend is Persian and Tehran used to be amazing back in the day before the fall of the Shah according to her mom. It was supposed to be very cosmopolitan and chic with fantastic nightlife. I've heard this from a number of people. She went back for a facelift (the mom) about 10 years ago and they did an amazing job.

R38/R39 - That was totally not what I pictured at all.

R47 if you zoom In on the pic in r38 you’ll notice Korean lettering on one of the buildings and, even more telling, SOUTH KOREAN FLAGS on the street lights.

So, not Tehran.

Good call, R48! I took DL on face value - a momentary lapse of judgement.

According to this site the image at R38 IS Tehran.

A beautiful snowy street scene in Tehran.

From the wonderful film "Persepolis". I recommend watching the whole thing to understand the good (Shah was an asshole) and the bad (Islamists were worse) of the revolution.

Wonderful documentary on the Shah's big bash at Persepolis. My dad flew may of the USA VIPS. We still have a gold medallion with the Shah's profile and the dates of the anniversary of the Pahlavi dynasty. Five years later it was all gone.

The urban population of Tehran is larger than New York City. NYC beats Tehran in the metro category.

Tehran - 9 million (16 million metro)

New York City - 8.4 million (19.9 million metro)

Iranians are smart nice, warm people. All the ones I'm America that I have met made a good impression on me. : )

I've had sex with a couple of hunky Iranians.

What was Iran like under Mossadegh? Anyone know?

Googoosh!

I have nothing against Iran but that retarded hijab rule has to go. It's even ruining their films: it's forbidden for women to appear onscreen with uncovered hair so you see women wearing those in local films even in situations where no Iranian woman would ever wear it in real life, like when she's home alone or with her family.

An Iranian friend was one of the protesting students at Tehran University that set off the revolution. They wanted the Shah out, an end to political oppression and a return to democracy. He wasn't one of the main organisers, just a middle class kid doing what he thought was his bit for the good of the country.

The trouble was the Shah had destroyed every organisation that could put up any kind of opposition EXCEPT the religious. So the mosques became the main opposition and the most extreme within them took over the revolution.

Within a year or two the original protesters became marked men and women and either fled Iran or were arrested.

He remembers Iran as a fun place to live if you were middle class and didn't ask questions. But it was also a place with some pretty nasty undercurrents. There were extremes of wealth and poverty, people being dissapeared, not being able to trust your neighbours and a simmering resentment from the have-nots.

I know some other folk who are Iranian Bahais. They were always on shakey ground in Iran as they were considered heretics by the fundamentalists. On the one hand the administration favoured them because their religion specifically forbids violence or political involvement and they were dependent on government protection to stay safe. With that deal with the devil came good jobs and education. So the moment The Shah fell they knew they would be targeted and had to get out.

The documentary on the Shah big party is very good. Those who want a simply fairy tale about how glam Iran was under the Shah should watch it. It was a Potemkin Village.

[quote]then why do some of the buildings have Chinese writing on them?

Probably for the same reason that buildings in Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, etc. have buildings with non-English on them.

My grandfather lived in Beirut for a time before it all went to shit. He said it was beautiful and like Monte Carlo of the Middle East.

Muslims, cancer of the planet

R62 explain the South Korean flags on the lamp posts

You'd think that Iran would only have a North-Koreatown.

R64 Dementia praecox of the planet.

The building says Hyundai, for what it's worth.

Totally agree r64. Islam is a cancer to all.

Which is it, r65? Is the street in China or Korea?

There is a Korean school in Tehran, and the light fixtures in the photo I goggled are the same as those in the photo at r38. Scroll down to see it.

Another "Iran was Westernized before the Mullahs" fantasy thread. No, it most certainly was not. There was a non-Muslim population at the time who were Westernized. The Shah wanted Western patronage to retain power, so paid lip service to Westernization. The vast majority of Iran was and remains highly conservative Muslim. The principal reason Iranians supported Khomeini was that people were outraged at Westernization, which went against Iran's conservative Muslim sensibilities.

My female coworker is a fairly recent immigrant from Iran, and she sure reminds me of the pre-Revolution pictures of Iranian ladies. She's quite the fashionista and wouldn't dream of wearing a burka or even a hijab. She drinks, doesn't fast for Ramadan, and has premarital sex (not that she tells her coworkers about her sex life, but she mentioned her boyfriend staying over).

I think, however Iranian women present themselves today, there's still the soul of pre-Revolution Iran bubbling underneath.

My mother is from Tehran and my father is from Beirut. They both talk about the glory days of the 1960s in their respective countries, where the mini skirts were shorter than in London, everyone loved seeing Hollywood movies, and nightclubs were the place to be. Rock and roll music was very popular (it still is underground in Iran), the women wore revealing outfits and lots of makeup, and everybody drank alcohol. The region was very influenced by Mediterranean resort-style luxury and Western culture/media.

That's not to say Iran (or Lebanon) was a perfect place, and as others have mentioned there were problems such as the wealth gap. But it was a very progressive atmosphere for its time (not just its region) and supposedly a wonderful place to live.

I have two good friends (brothers) who came from Tehran to the US back in the late 60s to go to college in Oklahoma. They stayed in the US after college. Their parents immigrated in the early 80s. In the early 90s the mother went back to visit relatives for a month. She had to enter Iran through Germany rather than directly from the US. When she was at the airport to fly back to Germany the security personnel at the airport in Iran made her take off all her jewelry and hand it over to them if she wanted to get on the plane.

i did some research. S. Korea and Iran have a rather close relationship. In Seoul S. Korea they have a Tehran Street, and in Tehran they have a "Seoul Street" known as Tehran-ro. The image at R38 is actually Tehran St. in Seoul.

This is the only photo I could find of Seoul St. in Tehran (or at least the general location of the street). For some reason there simply aren't any street scene photos of Tehran's Seoul St. online, at least that I can find.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for clarifying, r76. Interesting that the 2 countries formed such a bond.

Shah to Khomeini. From the frying pan into the fire.

The idea of revolution was very wrong headed. I remember. I knew some of those so called student revolutionaries. We told them the shah was bad but the mullah was not the answer. But did they listen? No.

R64 and R69 People say the same thing about gays too. Nice bigotry.

R78 I’m r57. Was Iran modernizing under Mossadegh? Were the people westernizing pre-Shah or was it like another poster stated, that Iran was always religously conservative? I would figure rural areas were conservative but what about Tehran?

R78 student revolutionaries are always precursors to some of worst atrocities of the last 100 years. The Bolsheviks of Russia, the Brown shirts of Germany, the Red Guard of China, the guerillas of Che in Cuba, and now we got the black-masked Antifa of Berkeley! Students are the worst because they have just enough autonomy to some damage and just enough stupidity to think that the damage was for the good of all. That's why movements always focus on the young dumb and full of cum students.

Why would Persia now or ever in the past feel any need to "Westernize". A series of fabulous dynasties and an ancient empire of epic proportions.

Mossadegh nationalized the oil (as if there would be no resulting difficulties) and The Money People said um, meet Reza Shah and his overt hatred of what he felt were the unworkable impediments made possible by Islam and the Clerics lived in exile and played the long game and thus when they seized power they seized power.

Two Empresses,

Thanks R53, I just finished it. Very good.

r21, letting the shah into the US was the worse decision Carter made during his presidency.

R84 Farah was nowhere near as beautiful as the Shah’s first wife, Princess Fawzia.

Carter was forced into that decision by the evil old boys network.

[quote]student revolutionaries are always precursors to some of worst atrocities of the last 100 years.

Much like the BernieBros of today.

Boomer retirees are the cancer of the world ^

[quote] By all accounts Carter would have been a softer touch in terms of foreign policy toward them than Reagan

Carter made an attempt to rescue the hostages in Iran. It failed miserably. I think the rescue team that was sent crashed in the desert. After that, everyone knew there was no way Carter would be able to extract them.

Not with the GOP extorting Iran to keep the hostages until after the election

[quote]Not with the GOP extorting Iran to keep the hostages until after the election

Nice try, but the GOP wasn't powerful during the Carter Administration. The whole entire Carter administration mess lies squarely on the Democrats.

Disco Googoosh!

Naive. The Refugs made a deal with President Elect Reagan and had the hostages on the tarmac during the inauguration. When Reagan became President, the plane was allowed to take off.

Once you let religious figures dominate politics, your country is doomed. Happened in China in the 14th century.

Religious figures stunt any progress and shut down any dissent because, y'know, God. Then all of your centrist or moderate population (who can afford to) leave for other countries - if not forced out by the religious purists.

Then when things aren't going as swimmingly as they thought, they blame it on the US. It's the default excuse for EVERY problem in any non-Western country.

I'm not saying US influence and acts haven't had an impact, but for every reason they bring up the US, they should look at their own faults. But they don't. Particularly in the MiddleEast - Islam and its institutions are perfect and cannot be condemned or criticized.

There is no platform for criticism so they have to pick on something - hence, US.

This is a GREAT movie (Jim Cavaziel, Shoreh Aghdashloo) about Iran after the revolution - The Stoning of Soraya M.

Cried like a baby. I always found it suspect it didn’t get more play.

I wonder how the underground gay clubs are in Tehran. I hope they don't have foreskin in that country.

The band Khruangbin had a song a year or so ago that captured some of Persian/Iranian TV before the revolution. Very moving in its own way, especially toward the end.

America didn't "do it," r32, so stop being deliberately obtuse. Western and particularly US meddling certainly made it possible. Look at it as a blueprint for where the US is currently headed under conservative Christians.

Some people are not deliberately obtuse. They are simple minded and ignorant,.

Googoosh Music Academy!

(Miss Googoosh moved to London back in 2000. This is her [italic]American Idol[/italic]–style reality show on Manoto, a Persian-language TV channel in the UK.)

Who cares what Iran was like in the past?? It’s now a disgusting, barbaric, Islamic-extremist haven for terrorism. It’s leadership has shown for decades that they are not capable of participating in the modern civilized world.

R103 I care.

[quote]Look at it as a blueprint for where the US is currently headed under conservative Christians.

Conservative Christians aren't taking over shit in the US. They couldn't do it in their 1980s glory days, when their numbers were much higher than they are now. They're a dwindling demographic and becoming more and more irrelevant in the 21st century.

Sounds like Florida R103

Countries that have gone to shit always blame America. It's nothing new. We were admittedly shitty in the past, but almost all of those countries have had at least a 50 or more years to recover. If a country is shitty today, it's their own fault, not ours. Blaming America is a deflection of admitting that an Islamic oligarchy ruined the Middle East.

Nuke that country . It is the only way to keeps gays and jews in the West safe.

[quote]Countries that have gone to shit always blame America.

Yet have no problem accepting our aid money. I guarantee if there was an earthquake in Iran tomorrow, they would be begging us for help.

Hopes and prayers for a 9.8 hitting Tehran. Come on, prayer circle!

[quote]letting the shah into the US was the worse decision Carter made during his presidency.

And then he died five minutes later.

A lady I used to work with lived there until the revolution.she and her husband were american , and he drove a helicopter for one of the Sha's family members. She had tons of gorgeous things from the 10 years she lived there . One thing I especially coveted was a 300 piece silver set she got as a housewarming gift. She said when things started going bad,they were all sure they were dead meat. Mainly because her husband had worked for the family. They ended up escaping on the freighter that they had shipped their household goods on . She said it was a terrifying time,they were killing people on the streets. They went from a large house and servants to him driving a Greyhound and her waiting tables. But surprisingly she want bitter,just glad her and her husband and kids were alive. That was 1982 or so.

The film has been mentioned above and I also highly recommend the graphic novel of "Persepolis" by Marjane Satrapi for those interested in life in Iran before, during and after the revolution from the perspective of the author as a young girl and woman.

The cosmopolitan nature of the middle east has fascinated me ever since I met my ex, whose family had to flee from Egypt after the Suez Crisis. One of the things interesting to me is that rather than have a single overall lingua franca for everyone to use, the people instead would learn each others' languages to communicate. My ex's family speak English, French, Italian, Arabic, Greek and Maltese, and often it gets jumbled together into it's own unique dialect. They also speak fondly of how everyone just accepted everyone else's religion without it being a bother.

Alexandria was very much like that R113. Sadly all swept away,

YOU know this is a cautionary tale. Look at photos of Beirut Lebanon, once known as the Paris of the Middle East. Look at photos of Iran and the people there from back in the 60's and early 70's. If Trump gets re-elected, the people running the show will make us nostalgic for a better time, because they will do to us what has been done to these others. And we will keep sitting here remembering and thinking that "well, we will get it back in the next election cycle" only we won't. We'll be sitting here 40-50 years from now and we will never get it back. We have to fight hard and take it back. We can't wait.

Native Arabic speakers have an advantage learning other languages because Arabic has many complicated sounds and pronouncements, thus they can hear the sounds of other languages very accurately.

R116 really? That's interesting! I hadn't heard that before. They do have some complicated sounds for sure. I hope to get better at it one day.

In the case of my ex and his family though, they were of Italian background, and Italian has a much more limited phonology and they still did well. I think growing up around all the different languages and hearing all the different sounds, plus having to use it day to day (English at school, Italian at home, Greek to the shopkeeper on the corner, etc) most likely made it feel like second nature. What I find interesting is even today when they speak Italian, items in the home that are considered luxury items, like makeup, jewellery etc are referred to in French and common everyday items like the fixtures in a home are referred to in Arabic. A lot of the swearing is in Greek. The food is a wonderful mixture of Italian and middle eastern/Jewish.

If the country was so great back then, and the people so great, why give money to the current regime and why not support a revolt?

Another example perfectly illustrating that organized religion is the source of all evil.

Rick Steves in Iran

R120 that looks like a scene from “The Handmaid’s Tale.”

Chilling.