Philip Mc Keon Dies at 55

He obviously saw the DL thread about him.

Ba-ba-ba-BAH-doo-doo-ee!

He looked rough. Bad teeth. Was he on the skids?

Miss Dey......Miss Dey?

[Quote] Was he on the skids?

He lost his job at the garage.

No wife No Kids GAY The "flu" got him...

So ole 'sis and husband have ranch near Austin TX and Wimberley , where he died is nearby

Phillip entering heaven: ‘There’s a newwww boy in town!’

HAS LINDA LAVIN MADE A STATEMENT?

IS HE SUCKING VIC'S COCK IN THE AFTERLIFE ?

HIs fucking TEETH!

a pamphlet at my dentist tells me you can die from complications of gum disease!

R11 = Vic T.

so, that's 2, who will be the 3rd?

Who was the first. I'm ashamed for NOT KNOWING!

Rip.

[quote] Rip

Taylor or Torn?

Any messages from Tootie, Blair nor Natalie?

I was honking maybe he had cancer. Cancer and the treatments can make a persons teeth die.

Ffs. *Thinking*

Damn autocorrect. I hate you.

R19 = Patti LuPone

Honk, honk!

He was a single gay guy - Do the math. I think we ALL know what he died from...

Even Satan doesn't want Danny Pintauro.

R15, Roxette's Marie Fredriksson

ALICE curse: 3 Actors Dead! Is Polly Holliday next?

Even for DL, this is an ugly thread.

[quote] Even for DL, this is an ugly thread

Why do you say that?

He was spank bank material when I was young lad. RIP.

He died of severe aesthetic decline.

Has anyone checked on Kelly Osborne?

He looks like Mr Ed

Someone should check on Aaron Carter.

I wonder if the disease he suffered from was a mild form of gigantism.

I can't neigh.

R33, I wondered about Marfan Syndrome.

I'm still mourning the loss of Juice WRLD.. Can the Grim Reaper give me a fucking break?

Apparently, he wanted to join the Joyride.

He was only 5'6", so I doubt it was Marfan Syndrome.

[quote]He obviously saw the DL thread about him.

Ooh, I didn't. Got a link?

Wow, this is pretty shocking. Makes me feel old. What did he die from?

"An illness," R40.

People could have used a better picture; he has food in his teeth.

I'm assuming Linda will sing at the funeral. Is there a scat version of Amazing Grace?

That's a shame, I'm sorry for his family. Nancy McKeon always seemed like a genuinely nice person. No cause of death given. Wonder what happened. RIP Tommy.

[quote]marfan syndrome

No he had marzipan syndrome: a disease consisting primarily of consuming sugar or honey and almond meal (ground almonds), sometimes augmented with almond oil or extract

It was a long illness R44, which usually means cancer.

Well it looks like I got the last laugh after all

The poster child of BDF

Yeah, he had serious BDF.

You just knew there was a donkey dick coiled inside those bellbottom Levis.

R43 Or will she weep and mourn publicly? Maybe Lavin is too old to do anything for attention by now.

If Tommy died 10 years ago though..."Entertainment Tonight! Linda Lavin on the death of her sitcom son! 'My heart will never heal, I feel as though I lost an actual son. 'Boo bee bid-didty bop boo bee bee bee...*wiping tears*...that was for you baby!'. "

He was over 6 feet tall WTF?

I was singing at his bedside when he asked the doctor's to pull the plug.

Nancy doesn’t post on her Instagram page all that often. However, she did share a sweet Instagram tribute to Philip in honor of his birthday on November 11.

“A huge happy birthday to my big brother! It’s been a tough time lately… but as we’ve always said…we’ll get through it together… love you Dude,” wrote Nancy.

Some of Nancy’s Facts of Life co-stars added comments and sharing birthday wishes for Philip. Mindy Cohen, Kim Fields and Lisa Whelchel all noted their love for Nancy’s brother and many of her fans wished him a happy birthday, as well.

Nancy’s caption seems to touch upon the fact that her brother had been navigating some troubles, likely a reference to his illness. Little more about what led to Philip’s death has been publicly detailed at this point. Regardless, fans who remember him from his childhood acting days are mourning his passing.

R52 I think she'd do a slow, sad, meaningful scat, a scat that was appropriate at the time of someone's death.

Slowly and with feeling.

"Baaaaa...baaaa...baaa...dee dee dee....badaaa....badaaa badaaa....What's that Philip? 'Kill me now????'. "

Very sweet post R53. Sad but sweet. Thanks for sharing that. (Poor Philip, poor Nancy.)

Nancy lost her father less than 2 months ago. How tragic.

Kim Fields posted a nice tribute on her Instagram

[quote]He died of severe aesthetic decline.

There was a dearth of quality raw material to work with.

😢

What's up with Nancy McKeon, you never hear from her.

Meth is a helluva drug.

Horseface = Horsedick

Perhaps, but look at what it was stuck to.

Anything to avoid seeing Nance over the holidays...

RIP. One of my gayling crushes. He definitely had BDF. Always liked the tall blond blue eyed dumb types.

Ba ba ba fa faaaaaa

Bom-bi-dee-BOMP!

r25, yes even if Death takes a Holliday.

Has Alfred Lutter commented yet to say he can play the role if there’s a revival?

R56 Where did she lose him?

Asking for a friend.

"Long illness" = Boozer and a Looser!

I can't believe Alice was on for 9 seasons.

Has cousin Jeri responded yet?

[quote]I can't believe Alice was on for 9 seasons.

And that fresh freckled face never lost it's freshness

Flo carried the interest

Has Polly Holliday weighed in on this?

4 down, 2 to go.

People magazine is reporting that Mc Keon put it in his final will that his engraved tombstone will be one of his front teeth.

Wow. This really is an ugly thread.

R79 Are you new around here?

[quote]I was honking maybe he had cancer.

You got some mighty honk there, hun.

Based on Nancy's Instagram it looks like their father just died within the last several weeks. To lose a dad and brother is terrible.

Death is a fact of life. Sometimes you have to take the good and take the bad.

Or the AIDS!

R82 Maybe her friend the Rev. Pat Robertson will console her.

His net worth is listed at 12 million, he must have invested well.

One less Trump voter...

What if Linda truly lost it and is picking off her former co-stars as her Mrs. Walden character?

Saving her two greatest enemies, Polly and Diane, for last.

Celia Weston, girl you in danger!

R88 Better get Jessica Fletcher on the case!

Linda and Dianne Ladd will perform "Two Tootsies from Tucson" at the memorial.

r88

She doesn't worry me

He can't drive 55

I remember reading on Usenet (way back when it was more than just for pirating), when Marie Osmond's son killed himself, someone was saying that Philip McKeon suffered from severe depression and that's why he gave up acting.

Here is the episode of the "Pyramid" where Philip is so dumb he doesn't know what a chameleon is and the girl guesses it anyway, when he just groans. Bonus: features Jill Whelan in the background

Here is the episode of the "Pyramid" where Philip is so dumb he doesn't know what a chameleon is and the girl guesses it anyway, when he just groans. Bonus: features Jill Whelan in the background

[quote]He was only 5'6"

Look at R95 ‘s video and say that again.

R79

That reminds me of one of the Bonnie Franklin death threads in which someone kept demanding a respectful, mournful tone.

Someone else responded that this was Datalounge and that meant the thread was for people who wished she was buried in that green polyester cowl neck sweater and that the mourners would do her theatrical slo-mo running across the parking lot to the funeral home.

I wanted the eulogies to peppered with lots of 'Dammit's.

Linda Lavin's pussy stinks!

[quote]I'm assuming Linda will sing at the funeral. Is there a scat version of Amazing Grace?

There is now.

R96 The poster probably confused him with Doug Mckeon who is still alive as far as I know.

HAS ANYONE HEARD FROM JIMMY MCNICHOL?

Philip McKeon has collapsed!

I was trotting along and suddenly

it started raining and snowing

and you said it was hailing

but hailing hits you on the head

hard so it was really snowing and

raining and I was in such a hurry

to meet you but the traffic

was acting exactly like the sky

and suddenly I see a headline

lana turner has collapsed!

there is no snow in Hollywood

there is no rain in California

I have been to lots of parties

and acted perfectly disgraceful

but I never actually collapsed

oh Philip McKeon we love you get up

r25: KISS MY GRITS!

With some luck and love, life's gonna be......... So SweeeeeEEEEET. Bom Boo Dee Bom!

He was gay, right? No wife, kids or girlfriends.

I don't know if he was gay but his boyfriend sure was.

Too bad Beth Howland died a few years ago. I desperately wish she was alive to place a bouquet of flowers on the coffin -- yet end up spilling them everywhere!

I was kind of surprised by this. Another part of my childhood disappearing. We actually saw a taping of "Alice" in 1978.

I read somewhere that, during the run of the show, he bought a black Cadillac for himself.

I was always a Cadillac kid, too, and I am his age, so I thought it was funny imagining this young boy driving around in a big early-80s Cadillac.

[quote]The poster probably confused him with Doug Mckeon

Doug is 5'5"

Interesting that the net worth (I know, I know) claim he was worth more than his sister Nancy. They have him at $7 million and her at $6 million.

I checked their performance stats and she worked considerably more and longer in the business than he did. If he did have a higher net worth than her he must have been good at investing.

Or, maybe the residuals from "Alice" paid better than the residuals from "Facts of Life"...

Just saw him at an autograph show last year. Looked good. Too young

[quote] Maybe Lavin is too old to do anything for attention by now.

She was starring on a weekly sitcom (9JKL) not that long ago,

The family spokesman is none other than that old queen publicist Jeff Ballard! We know him from his association with Charlie Sheen and DL fav Chandler Massey. What a small world...

Can't believe it's been almost four years since Beth Howland's death (31st Dec 2015).

We didn't find out until six months afterwards.

Yeah R113 that Ballard guy’s making this all about himself.

Thought it was Julia Roberts for a minute.

R114 Why was she a crazy loner hoarder who was only discovered later eaten by cats?

No, her husband was in showbiz too and they lived in Santa Monica. It was her wish not to have it made public until then according to Wikipedia.

I wonder why?

Beth was a secret AIDS death, with antiretroviral resistance at an all time high, it's going to be rough soon.

[quote] What's up with Nancy McKeon, you never hear from her.

Around the time both their respective shows went off the air, she had an issue with some stalker who couldn’t handle Michael J. Fox marrying Tracy Pollan instead of her. Michael Gross even talked about this in a TV Guide interview the week of the last episode of [italic]Family Ties[/italic].

☹️ You people are just MEAN, MEAN, MEAN !

R116 = Charles Levin’s ghost

[quote] No, her husband was in showbiz too

Her husband was Jim Dial.

LISA WHELCHEL IS A BITCH

R120 are you NEW?????????

I WAS GOING TO PONDER IF LINDA , POLLY OR KIM COUGARED HIM ? POLLY IS PROBABLY WITH THE LADIES , KIM IS TOO UNATTRACTIVE , LINDA TOO STAID.

With every cast member that dies the odds of an Alice reboot become slimmer and slimmer.

I can play all the roles

R123, you need to get together with the “Mia is bitch” troll. I’m sure you two have a lot in common.

Bitch, that’s MY department.

You said it, I didn’t.

The pressing question is regarding Polly Holliday. Lesbo, no? Never married, no children, nary a mention in all these years of her and a man. I vote beaver lover. Not that it matters anymore. She recently officially switched her political affiliation from Democrat to Republican. Therefore I deem her dead to me.

Not that it means anything but her brother's childhood friend back in Alabammy was none other than Jim Nabors.

She became a republican NOW?? What kind of freak would choose now to do that?

Polly loved to show her camel-toe

So lesbian or not?

R131 How do you know Polly's political party?

Wikipedia

[quote] She was starring on a weekly sitcom (9JKL) not that long ago,

Well, she was a supporting actress there. But yes.

9 Jokes Kanned Laughter

[quote] 9 Jokes Kanned Laughter

Poor Mark Feuerstein just can't make it happen, no matter how hot he is.

I was more sad when Top Cat died.

LOTS OF DEMENTED OLD PEOPLE BECOME REPUGS .

R141 AND THEY ALL TYPE IN CAPS TOO

Phillip and Vic Tayback were very tight.

[Quote]Phillip and Vic Tayback were very tight.

Well, Phillip certainly was.

his grandmother and my grandfather used to go to the same senior citizens center for lunch and recreation.

To be tag teamed by Mel Sharples and Lou Grant.....

This is one of the funniest threads in ages. Nowhere else on the Internet is Philip McKeon being talked about, so I'd like to think he'd be grateful.

Polly is still listed as a Democrat on this NY voter information website. Her zip code is 10003 and is in New York county.

Anyone can add anything to Wikipedia. There was no citation either to the claim she is a Republican now.

R108 Not anymore. Now he's 14" tall and 5'5" wide.

[quote]His net worth is listed at 12 million.

Toothpicks.

Alice actress Linda Lavin is mourning the death of her former costar, Philip McKeon.

In a statement to PEOPLE, Lavin, 83, reflected on the “deep” connection she shared with Philip on the set of Alice, remembering him as a “wondrous boy.”

“Philip was the endearing, loving boy, always willing and eager to connect with others,” she said. “Although we were performing a show, the dynamic of creating that relationship made our connection very real and deep. He taught me how to be a good mom, just by being the wondrous boy he was.”

I can hear LL on the show now saying "Taw-mee, Taw-mee" and singing over the opening fum-fum-fum-fum-fum and scatting over the closing Bop-uh-dee-bop!, with the shot of Philip pouring the water on her feet.

Those yeller teefs at r131, though!

Linda is full of shit. She probably made him buff her shoes every day. And from the looks of it, with his mouth.

Did Linda comment on Beth Howland when it was finally announced that she died?

[quote] with the shot of Philip pouring the water on her feet.

So THAT's what killed him...

r151

Boy? He was 9 feet tall and over half century old.

Just means she hasn't talked to him since the show went off the air.

r151

Boy? He was 9 feet tall and over half century old.

Just means she hasn't talked to him since the show went off the air.

Charlie "HIV+" Sheen left a tribute to him

The next time I'm in Phoenix, I'm gonna stop by Mel's Diner in honor of Tommy, Mel and Vera.

After all these years, Mel's Diner is still there. It's located on Grand Avenue in central Phoenix.

R93 Yeah depression that's why.

It wasn't due to his next sit com "The Return Of Mr. Ed" always being shelved.

Same here, r106.

I had no idea that Mel's Diner was a real place.

Well, R163, you have to get out and start enjoyin', 'cause life's too short!

I like him as Denham in “To Sir With Love”.

Alex weighs in

That's a gay and an HIV+

No one could spill straws everywhere quite like Beth Howland.

[quote]I was honking maybe he had cancer.

Honk if you love cancer!

[quote] Nowhere else on the Internet is Philip McKeon being talked about

Gay men over 50 is the DL sweet spot

How man sea turtles did Vera kill by habitually throwing boxes of straws everywhere each week?

That should have been one of the early signs that Beth Howland had MS, R171.

McKeon's profile pic in Facebook is him with a young girl with his exact face shape. Maybe he married and had a kid but it just wasn't publicized. He was living in Texas and out of showbiz for years so why would we know about his romantic life.

What do Nancy's kids look like?

Like little angels who the stork brought from Heaven on a Harley from the Bronx, R174. How should I know?

R144 , Not after me he wasn't.

No wonder this show lasted so long: y'all were watching the clock waiting for him to turn 18.

[quote]What do Nancy's kids look like?

Like Shelley Hack, Rose!

The kid in that photo is his niece.

He also claimed to have a girlfriend on FB in a comment on one of the photos.

For R174, from Nancy's appearance on DWTS last year. Like most kids, they strongly resemble their father, especially the older girl. (I see a little McKeon coming through in the younger one's features).

Some of us are here longer than others, but in the end,we all have to go home to be with the Lord sooner or later. For Philip, it was sooner.

There's a new soul in heaven and heee's fee-lin' GOOD!

R183 Boppity bop!

I have no comment.

R183 meet r8

R186 Variation, will allow, points awarded. Carry on.

'Inside Nancy McKeon and Late Philip McKeon's Close Sibling Bond'

The McKeon kids were close, with no hint of rivalry, and both were introduced early to the industry. Nancy began modeling baby clothes for Sears catalogs at age 2; Philip landed his first commercial for Fruit Loops at age 4.

The family, originally from Forest Hills, Long Island, shuttled regularly to Manhattan for what would be some 60-odd commercials in seven years. Then, when Philip landed Alice in 1976, the McKeons headed West. “I was happy for Philip, but I had to start all over again,” Nancy told PEOPLE in 1982. “I was getting up at quarter to 5, practicing singing and dancing before school and again when I came home, but nothing was happening. I thought of quitting.” After three years of auditions — and numerous brotherly pep talks — she began landing series guest spots and eventually The Facts of Life.

Linda Lavin is 82 years young!

Bomp! Bee-dee-dee! Bomp!

R188 Forest Hills, Long Island? People Magazine fire your fact checkers, Forest Hills is part of Queens.

R119 what the hell are you talking about?

Got a SMILE, got a SONG for the NEIGHBORHOOD!

I mean R118? Resistance at an all time high?

[quote]Nowhere else on the Internet is Philip McKeon being talked about

This thread is like a DL perfect storm. It has all the right elements:

1. GenX boy crush for some

2. The TV show 'Alice'

3. Linda Lavin

4. Nancy McKeon

5. Fact of Life

6. Child Stars of the 70s/80s

7. The Alfred Lutter Troll

8. Beth Howland and the straws

9. The Vic Tayback Troll

Shoot the dog! Shoot the dog!

[quote] This thread is like a DL perfect storm. It has all the right elements:

Don't forget Polly Holiday!

The Holliday/Lavin feud!

And usually Alice's timeslot neighbor Ann Romano comes up in a comment or two.

I have a great deal of respect for Nancy, when it comes to fame & child-rearing. She was extremely protective of her daughters' privacy when they were little kids, and made a conscious effort to keep them out of the public eye (and their photos off the internet). In her LIFETIME Intimate Portrait/Biography (about 9-10 years ago) we only saw a photo of them in silhouette (playing on a beach) as she spoke about them. Her feeling was (paraphrasing): "I'm an actor, I chose to be a public figure. They didn't choose to be public figures. They don't have a voice in this, and until they are old enough to have a voice & a choice, it's not fair to put them in the public eye."

Wish there some more celebs who thought that way. I wish that for their kids.

The only way he was Alice's kid is if this was his dad.

r190 But Queens is ON Long Island, n'est-ce pas?

However, they did get THIS wrong:

[quote]Philip landed his first commercial for Fruit Loops at age 4.

It's FROOT LOOPS (no fruit was harmed in the making of that product)

No one wants to know what was on his iPod?

r200, THIS was on his iPod!

r163: I grew up in Phoenix in the 70s and 80s, and yes, Mel's Diner was a real place. When I was a kid, whenever my family would drive past Mel's Diner my siblings and I would yell "Kiss My Grits!" out the car window.

Kiss My Grits!

Yes, DL, what Polly / R203 said. (KISS 'EM!!)

You tell 'em, bro!

'Alice' could have easily, EASILY, survived without Lavin. It not have survived without Mel, Flo and the other girl. The show would've tanked.

Kill off Alice, Tommy moves in with Flo, Tommy gets a job at the restaurant, he and Mel have a lot of funny moments, throw in a few "very special episodes". Would've been fine without her.

They really should've gotten rid of Lavin when she started to squawk about Flo's popularity.

Don't underestimate the importance of the straight man.

Agree!

r206 your version would've been a much better show.

Was Linda Lavin just a downmarket Tyne Daly?

[quote]"I'm an actor, I chose to be a public figure. They didn't choose to be public figures. They don't have a voice in this, and until they are old enough to have a voice & a choice, it's not fair to put them in the public eye."

and if her mother thought that way, she'd be saying "Welcome to Walmart."

It really would have R209. Lavin was probably the weakest link. I think they hired that young, supposed-to-be-a-hottie in order to punish Lavin for driving Flo away. Up until then Lavin was the cute one.

R210 Lavin wishes she had Tyne Daly's appeal.

Tyne Daly has real talent.

Could you even imagine Linda on Cagney and Lacey or as Mama Rose?

[Quote] Could you even imagine Linda as Mama Rose?

That would NEVER happen...

Linda Lavin has a particularly good... third (?) act. Hasn't Tyne Daly mainly been doing revivals, while Lavin has done more original work?

[quote]Could you even imagine Linda on Cagney and Lacey or as Mama Rose?

C&L starting Linda and Bonnie Franklin!

"Dammit, Mary Beth!"

^"Christine, f' gawds sake, yoah an alcohawlic! Bom bom bom bom baaaaaaaa!"

R213 Tyne Daly is a good actress. Did you ever see that episode with Daly as the guest star? That was a great Daly/Gless reunion.

R216 If that meant we'd get an episode of Bonnie slapping Linda at least once a season, I am SO here for that!

How come Tyne is so ugly and her brother was so hot.

I can just see Bonnie, police badge hanging off her cowl neck sweater, doing a slow jog to catch a perp with her fried eggs flappin' in slo-mo.

Bad week for Linda Lavin; her first husband Ron Leibman ("Kaz", "The Hot Rock") just died also. Did he have BDF? I thought he was "ugly-cute" back in the day:

Someone outed him on an old thread. They didn't give details, though.

Because Mother Nature shortchanged Tyne R220.

But the two have a close and loving relationship and they even work together.

That photo at R222 outed him.

Has Wojo Tweeted or posted anything about Tommy?

Alice and Wojo were an item back in the day.

Now I'm depressed that we were deprived of a Lavin-Franklin Cagney and Lacey series!

Would Martin Kove still have appeared shirtless in the opening credits?

^It would be Richard Masur.

^Or Marvin Kaplan

What about me? How do you think I felt when I couldn't get off [italic]M*A*S*H[/italic] to do it?

A Lavin-Franklin Cagney and Lacey series with Wojo as Lavin's husband R227!! Heaven! T.V. Heaven!

^^^ Husband? I thought they were lesbians?

r214 I presume you were being facetious ...

Tyne's character had a wimpy husband R232.

Guess that doesn't really disprove anything though.

Alice & Wojo

Barney, Alice & Wojo

Alice & Wojo, in 'Like Mom, Like Me'

Co-starring Kristy McNichol

I remember him from Alice. He's my age. So weird, even by DL standards for so much vitriol. I know we use dark humor, but somehow McKeon seemed to inflame DL a lot in the early posts.

Whatever was in the water that made people look so much older back then seemed to affect 70s teen idols who seemed to age in dog years. Ralph Macchio still looks surprisingly youthful, hairpiece notwithstanding.

First Elliot gets eaten by vultures, and now poor Toms. 😭

He had features that weren't exactly cute as a child and looked like a horse as an adult.

The show sucked--lots of recurring gags and catch phrases, the most predictable schlock possible. This was in an era of truly original shows like Barney Miller (where Lavin had a few appearances) and Taxi.

Joan Rivers, who never forgot a grudge, hated Linda Lavin, because she'd run into Lavin who would have just gotten a part when Joan was desperate for everything and apparently Lavin always had to announce her good fortune. Not difficult to picture Lavin being as Rivers described her.

r242, that's the first thing I've ever heard that made me like Linda Lavin.

Well It is obvious from all this chatter, why oh why couldn’t we be mourning Lavin’s death and have Philip making a stoic comment about her being a woman?

R242 Lavin disappeared after 'Alice' went off the air despite her desperate efforts to stay on the radar. I can believe that she is widely disliked throughout the industry.

Actually, I liked that Joan knew how to keep a grudge, FOREVER.

SCTV: Andrea Martin as Linda Lavin

"IT'S YOUR FUNERAAALLL!"

(Now I KNOW Lavin was hated throughout the industry!)

They all disappeared after Alice, except for Celia Weston who turned into a solid character actress who's always working.

Didn't Lavin have a messy divorce around the time of GYPSY?

R248 But Lavin was somewhat of a known name before the show and she was the STAR of the show.

Andrea Martin does a great impression of Lavin!

It's not unusual for stars of long running shows to "suffer" in the aftermath. Characters actors like Weston have an easier job because shows aren't built around them, they don't get tarred with "people can only see her as Alice [or whomever]."

R245 Lavin's never hit again in the way she did with Alice but she's hardly disappeared. She's done a few respected Broadway plays - plays, not musicals (her hideous Mama Rose aside) and she's been part of several TV shows in the last 30 years, though few of them lasted long.

I still wonder what it was like to be on the set of that show with Lavin and Patty Heaton. They must have cancelled each other's cunt energy out at some point.....

Lavin played Sean Hayes's mother on his short-lived "Sean Saves the World" sitcom.

Must've been very short-lived, never heard of it.

Is that from the Raquel Welch collection?

Room for Two, for those that have not yet had the pleasure

R256 Yes, I believe Lavin bought that hair from the QVC network.

Great, we've got The Linda Lavin fan club posting on this thread.

Night all, I'll be back when Linda's Lair has disbanded.

R259 It's the Lavin is a Cunt Club, thank you very much!

Alice was.one of the truly great sitcoms of the 70's.

R261 LOLOLOLOLOLLLLLLLL

Patty Heaton was cute back then. Her nose had yet to overcome her face. I don't know "Alice." Did Linda Lavin always have 1930s movie star brows?

Watching the Season One intro of "Alice" at r201, I was surprised that Philip McKeon got second billing, above Vic Tayback and Beth Howland. (Polly Holliday had an "and" credit).

Truth be told, Linda probably had a hand in killing him.

[quote] Linda probably had a hand in killing him.

Just the one, dear?

Wojo had back!

Wojo worked that bubble!

R264 The first season concentrated more on Tommy and Alice and less on the diner, similar to the movie. That quickly changed, though.

Did Tommy get edged out by Flo and her high hair?

The show should have been “Mel’s Diner” starring Vic Tayback as a gruff but lovable owner of a small struggling food establishment with a wacky clientele. Flo and Jolene as the supporting cast. Vera too but cast to be closer to the movie version (sorry Beth). No Alice or Tommy.

Linda Lavin was actually very funny when she guest starred on Rhoda as a haughty old high school chum. And, her version of Think of the Possibilities from Superman is pretty great.

But, she was never nearly as good on Alice. To the person who said "Imagine her as Mama Rose" I don't have to. She replaced Tune Daly. It was a very strange performance, with an Irish brogue. I hear she's been great in other plays, though.

R267 / R268 I guess we could say that Wojo had Mojo?

R261 Well it was based on this hoity-toity movie that the critics all loved so we THOUGHT the show was going to be good. Kind of an 'All in The Family' quality movie except it takes place in a different setting. Well. I guess we all saw how it actually turned out...

R271 Now that would've been a great show. It really would have been.

R260 I guess I thought Linda's Lair sounded nicer. But Linda Lavin is a Cunt works for me too.

R253 no one, NO ONE, cancels out Patty Heaton’s nuclear ☢️ cunt energy!

Dammit, Mr Goldstone!

R278 "OH! Mr. Goldstone! Dammit!"

Bonnie and her trademark "OH!"

Linda Lavin and Patricia Heaton - "Room for Two" Intro - 1992

It was a good show. Lavin is always better not being the focus.

Linda Lavin and Patricia Heaton - "Room for Two" Intro - 1992

It was a good show. Lavin is always better not being the focus.

Hello? I died, remember?

Mel was always disrespectful to women. Perhaps he wasn't a fan of the fish platter.

Stow it, blondie!

Did Polly or Celia send condolences?

How about Diane?

Don't bother looking for a tweet from me.

[quote]Think of the Possibilities from Superman

Oh, dear.

[quote]Did Tommy get edged out by Flo and her high hair?

Did Tommy get edged by Flo?

"You've Got Possibilities" sung to the dreamy Ramin Karimloo

r282

And you got 288 more replies than you deserved considering your tiny level of fame

At least YOU'RE still warm.

R280 R281 meet R257

[quote] Did Tommy get edged

Back to the sexual speculation, I see

My but Linda Lavin would take ANY job she could get.

I remember a post-'Alice' made for t.v. movie about an undocumented mother and daughter moving in with an upper class American family - the movie actually wasn't bad - and Lavin had a little iddy biddy part in it.

R294 The smaller the dose of Lavin the better.

Linda Lavin and Bonnie Franklin only worked together once, on The Hal Linden Variety Special. Unfortunately this is not available anywhere online, so we do not have a record of this important historical artifact.

She played Annette Funicello’s mother in that TV movie about her. She wasn’t bad, but it is of course another non-singing role.

I bet Bonnie pulled rank to get her own unique outfit.

Look at Bonnie, pulling focus with that head tilt! I guess if you aren't beautiful or talented, you have to do SOMEthing...

All I see is Bonnie desperately trying to show her tits off with that plunging neck line.

Bonnie was always desperately trying to show off her tits.

That’s such an awful photo. I wonder how it got published?

R282 You should've learned while you were alive that there might be gaps in between your teeth but not in your last name.

Damn studio lot teachers!

Damn! Damn! Damn!

Because Mackenzie got fired. And she's making a sad face in the photo. Geddit?

Can we please get back on subject? I’m dead!

So sad.

Still dead here!`

Gotta love all of these..."feminist"...actresses who go off on their..."feminist"...tangents while seizing every opportunity to whore themselves out in order to draw attention to themselves.

Well, Philip McKeon is dead so you don't have to worry about him feminist actressing anymore.

R309

KISS MAH SNATCH!

Philip was a gay who died of AIDS and they are covering it up.

See that Charlie Sheen and Glenn Spumoni left tribunes

Never knew LL was hated like this. They could have easily brought Flo back (and it was needed) but they didn't or she wouldn't or both. I always wondered why. I guess now I know.

Alice was actually a good, solid sitcom.

Polly turned down being back on Alice after Diane departed. She served her four years with Lavin. She wasn’t crazy about doing the spin off Flo either. She really only did it for the money and to get away from Lavin. She was tired of doing kiss my grits to strangers. Polly probably knew her spin off would fail, but she cashed in while she could, then went back to small character roles.

[quote] Never knew LL was hated like this.

Are you new to DataLounge?

The Lavin hate has run hot and deep here for YEARS.

R314 I do not usually read the popular culture threads. I stick to politics. I have been watching Alice on cable this year and really enjoyed it.

I'm beginning to think Charlie Sheen got a piece of that horse cock. Muy scandioloso!

Isn't Lavin infamous among waitstaff (read: underemployed actors) in NYC?

R308, guess you prefer Trumpsters like yourself

If it weren't for Alfred Lutter being so bad, there never would be Philip.

Without this role, Philip would've been nothing and his sister Nancy wouldn't have been on Facts of Life.

Thus Facts of Life would've been cancelled after the 2nd year retooling, cause Nancy made the show.

No Facts 2nd year, no star for Kim Fields and no Living Single

Oh the list just goes on and on.

Alfred Lutter wasn't bad, he just aged quickly. If he was bad in the film, they never would have hired him for the TV series to begin with.

[quote]If it weren't for Alfred Lutter being so bad, there never would be Philip.

He was let go because he was bigger than Linda.

He could and did act circles around McKeon.

According to that People Magazine article, Lavin hand picked Philip herself so DL should be thankful.

Socorro sucks! And do did the TV version of my movie!

Someone hit R319 in the head, they are stuck in a speculative history loop and can’t get out.

[quote]According to that People Magazine article, Lavin hand picked Philip herself so DL should be thankful.

Well, for one knew Linda had that something extra, an underrated actress whose better days are ahead of her!

R322 I see what your saying, if she just would have veered towards the casting director role we would all be better off.

Like most sitcom kids, he didn't have much of a career after the show ended.

Lavin is probably hated here almost as much as Bonnie Franklin,

R321 That doesn't matter in showbiz. It is about whether an actor works for the part or not. PERIOD.

[quote] Linda Lavin and Bonnie Franklin only worked together once, on The Hal Linden Variety Special. Unfortunately this is not available anywhere online, so we do not have a record of this important historical artifact.

Here's a promo for the Hal Linden Special. Looks like outstanding television.

Cathryn Damon singing and dancing also. This looks like the ABC variety show of the decade!

[quote] Cathryn Damon singing and dancing also. This looks like the ABC variety show of the decade!

People magazine gave it a favorable (though not glowing) review:

Linda Lavin, Bonnie Franklin and Cathryn (Soap) Damon sing and dance winningly while tracing Linden’s rise from singer-saxophonist to eminence in Barney Miller. The premise is mawkish, but Linden’s warmth makes his first special painless.

Bonnie Franklin might have been a good Alice Hyatt on "Alice". Her hair was very similar to Ellen Burstyn's hair in the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore".

People have suggested that on DL before -- that Bonnie and Linda would've been more suited to each other's roles. Bonnie making more sense as a fiesty aspiring singer who thinks she might be in with a chance and Linda as a weary divorcee trying to make a second go at life in middle age.

They'd have to change the setting from Indianapolis to Queens.

Which one was in Queens? My phone won’t let me google something so assinine!

Asinine*

R333 I definitely could see Lavin as the mother of Mackenzie, but Barbara would have been adopted, or an alien. It could have been a partial reboot of My Favorite Alien, with part of the story being them hiding her and evading capture, and them doing it just “One Day at a Time.” This would then work with the present day reboot where they are illegal aliens and work to evade ICE and deportation.

I didn't think Nanette Fabray, Bonnie, Mack, or Val looked in any way related to one another.

Could you caftan-wearers concentrate for five minutes???

[quote]He could and did act circles around McKeon.

No, if he could act he would have had a career.

We have his ineptness to thank for The Facts of Life.

r339

Oh go away

Being around the same age I pretty much hated most child actors of that era. But I remember especially wanting to punch McKeon in the mouth every time they showed him strumming the guitar in the opening credits.

For you, R342.

Who is Philip leaving this to?

R344

Kiss my tits r344

Did he walk on water? Did he rise after three days? How’s about the water, did he make it wine?

Anything beats the used-up unfunny skanks at R345.

[quote] No, if he could act he would have had a career.

R340, meet R345, who disproved that theory in an instant with a stolen [italic]Simpsons[/italic] line.

Kiss mein grits!

Alfred Lutter was an excellent child actor, far better than McKeon. He did work after Alice, but lost interest and quit show biz by the mid 80s.

Lutter was gayling Ogilvie in Bad News Bears

Polly, like Lily Tomlin, has a great waggish smile, which makes her more attractive than more conventionally pretty actresses.

He looked more like Ellen Burstyn’s son than Linda Lavin’s, hence the recast.

That diner was depressing. Moreso than Ann Romano's apartment.

Did they have pies & cakes that spun around in a case? That’s kind of trashy-classy.

I think Linda found her new dartboard at r344.

The Golden Girls 2020

Nancy McKeon = Dorothy

Lisa Whelchel = Blanche

Mindy Cohn = Rose

Kim Fields could play a younger, hip version of Sophia.

Alice and Tommy

(Season One)

r358, Linda Lavin would make a good Sophia.

Alice was originally intended to have the same bittersweet tone of the film and be a ‘70s style framed focusing on the relationship between a mother and son. But it quickly became quite derivative.

[quote]Are you new around here?

I've been here close to 20 years and the nastiness on the death threads has been off the hook compared to what it used to be, and there's always some yahoo like you saying it's always been this nasty.

No, we didn't always have threads of people making homophobic "gay cancer" jokes.

It just won’t be Christmas with out Philip this year.

Speak for yourself, R363.

r358

No Mindy is ugly, they could easily make her older and thus Sofia

Tootie should be Rose, the innocent.

[quote]Alfred Lutter was an excellent child actor, far better than McKeon. He did work after Alice, but lost interest and quit show biz by the mid 80s.

[quote]Lutter was gayling Ogilvie in Bad News Bears

Which proves he was limited. He was a sixth or seventh wheel in that pic. He didn't lose interest, no one was interested in him

He got too old to be Woody Allen’s mini-me forever.

R319 is that the Lutter-fly Effect?

What’s the reason for this thread’s longevity? Love for the show, hatred for Linda Lavin or fear of our own mortality (he was only 55)?

Fascination with the success of Alice and ODAAT despite their bizarre awfulness.

BDF, R369

All of the above.

R 371 Yes, one must respectfully pay homage at the passing of a BDF for seventeen days including covering the mirrors and rending of garments. When John Hamm goes it will be an utter devastation with multiple threads stretching into the hundreds and mourners on the street wailing at the passing of such a large member.

In Polly's last Alice episode, there's NO goodbye scene between Flo and Alice, which really is a shame because the first season had been such a nice portrait of female friends supporting each other, like the movie had. Flo gets a cute goodbye with Mel, and that's it.

Diane Ladd left in the middle of her second season on the show. She calls to tell Mel she's on the road as a singer, and not coming back. She must've filmed her scene in the same undisclosed location Suzanne Summers taped those Three's Company scenes after she was fired.

Flo was annoying as hell and I didn't miss her when she left. But good for her in getting away from jealous Lavin.

R375 Flo was THE show but she needed to tone it down a bit. It was obvious she amped it up because her and Lavin were feuding and they didn't write them as close.

So why isn’t Ryan Murphy working on Feud: Flo and Alice, sounds like there’s enough material for an episode or two.

FEUD: Linda Lavin and Humanity

Linda was good in the role of a fussy, irritating bureaucrat in The Good Wife, as Cary's pre-trial parole officer.

Damn, Matt Czuchry was smoking hot in that season, especially in all of those shirtless scenes.

Way back when, I enjoyed watching "Alice", especially the supporting actors. I never thought Tommy (McKeon) meshed as the son, but he wasn't on that much.

I hope he had a good life, was comfortable with himself, and was able to enjoy his flash of fame.

RIP, Philip McKeon.

This thread is a reminder of how much network TV meant something back then. I doubt people will be talking about Home Improvement or Everybody Loves Raymond years from now. Suddenly Susan and Caroline in the City were long running shows that are not even remembered today, and that was long before HBO's heyday or the era of streaming that has oversaturated the market. Having a shared culture has long been a thing of the past.

^Oh Mindy, go to sleep 😴 already!

r375 can Kiss My Grits!

It's a combination of those things, r369. Plus, these queens will use ANY excuse to discuss Bonnie Franklin.

Alfred Lutter is now a Silver Daddy.

[quote] Linda was good in the role of a fussy, irritating bureaucrat in The Good Wife, as Cary's pre-trial parole officer.

That was actually the only time I enjoyed her acting. Her character was cold and a bit of a cunt.

She was good on The OC.

Obviously the public had some standards back then if it made hits out of [italic]Happy Days[/italic] and [italic]Laverne and Shirley[/italic] but drew the line at [italic]Joanie Loves Chachi[/italic].

Well there has to be a line somewhere.

Let’s just say “We ain’t doin Shakespeare here!!”

Why didn't Garry Marshall spin off Lenny & Squiggy? They were the funniest thing on L&S and God knows the man didn't pass up any opportunity for a spin-off.

The homersexshul undertones were too much for the ‘70s.

[quote] The homersexshul undertones were too much for the ‘70s.

Yet when Warner Bros., the studio behind this show, made the NBC-TV movie [italic]Sidney Shorr: A Girl’s Best Friend[/italic], they toned down the main character’s homosexuality for the sitcom that came of it: [italic]Love, Sidney[/italic].

Alice...

Kiss my shits!

Flo was a quiet shrinking violet compared to me.

[quote]Why didn't Garry Marshall spin off Lenny & Squiggy?

Because they were only funny in small doses and always when someone was reacting to them. In other words second banana material

Just like Laurie Metcalf, hysterical as Roseanne's sister, wonderful as a friend for Norm MacDonald on his show and brilliant as Sheldon's mom. Not much though on her own. She's second banana material, which she is excellent at.

Michael McKean also had Spïnal Tap to fall back on, and he's been doing variations on that movie ever since.

Suddenly Susan and Caroline in the City had relatively small audiences but were owned by the network which needed to fill space and ultimately wanted enough episodes for rerun syndication. Sometimes, shows do take off in syndication, and both did have initial syndication runs.

Alice is memorable mostly for Flo's tedious catch phrase and the general hate here for Linda Lavin.

Diane Ladd could act circles around Polly Holliday and Celia Weston in her sleep.

She was too good for that show.

The Bonnie Franklin and Linda Lavin threads are examples of what happens when you give Sigmund Freud too much credit.

Have they had the funeral yet? I wonder if Linda Lavin was invited, and if she sang.

🎶 🎶There's a NEW corpse in town and he ain't feelin' so GOOD! Ba-da-ba-da-dum! 🎶🎶

Just how many versions of the theme song did LL record? I left LOGO on a little too long the other day and before I could get to the remote, I heard a version that I never heard before and boy was it bad!

The first time I was aware of LL was with her guest appearance on "Rhoda" and she made me laugh out loud at her snobbery and shade towards poor chubby Brenda. Never fear though, Rhoda put her in her place but good.

R401 I think she may have asked, but they firmly suggested that they were going in another direction.

Linda has talent. That can't be denied.

Caroline in the City and Suddenly Susan were shit shows that were wedged between Friends and Seinfeld, two enormously successful (and actually funny) shows. They coasted on the laurels of those other shows because people were too lazy to change the channel or turn off the teevee for a 1/2 hour.

Nobody remembers those shows because they sucked and were not funny.

[quote] So why isn’t Ryan Murphy working on Feud: Flo and Alice, sounds like there’s enough material for an episode or two.

Sarah Paulson as Linda and Jessica Lange as Polly Holiday, just so we can hear her say, "Kiss my grits!" with layers of subtext.

Lange’s a ham like Polly Holliday so that might work.

She had worked out a deal with the producers of Alice that they would let her do a new version of the theme song every year once the show became a hit. They did all kinds of things to keep her happy. They also let her sing on the show (where she did NOT do the jazz stylings of the theme song, thank God--I actually remember a very good episode where she helped Tommy busk on his guitar by singing a nice, straightforward version of "Mountain Greenery"), and they also let her do her ridiculous thing where she dressed up in male drag as a mobster. She did that multiple times, and made the least convincing man you have ever seen in your life, but they always acted on the show like it was a foolproof disguise--no one ever saw through it.

I will say a few nice things about Linda Lavin: she is a terrible jazz singer, but she's decent enough when she sings songs fairly straight, Broadway-style. (She got to be famous, after all, for her dynamite rendition of "You'Ve Got Possibilities" for "Suoperkman" on Broadway.) And she's actually a decent dramatic actress.

She does not have a funny bone in her body, though, and she is a deeply annoying jazz singer. And she has a ridiculous ego.

She had worked out a deal with the producers of Alice that they would let her do a new version of the theme song every year once the show became a hit. They did all kinds of things to keep her happy. They also let her sing on the show (where she did NOT do the jazz stylings of the theme song, thank God--I actually remember a very good episode where she helped Tommy busk on his guitar by singing a nice, straightforward version of "Mountain Greenery"), and they also let her do her ridiculous thing where she dressed up in male drag as a mobster. She did that multiple times, and made the least convincing man you have ever seen in your life, but they always acted on the show like it was a foolproof disguise--no one ever saw through it.

I will say a few nice things about Linda Lavin: she is a terrible jazz singer, but she's decent enough when she sings songs fairly straight, Broadway-style. (She got to be famous, after all, for her dynamite rendition of "You'Ve Got Possibilities" for "Suoperkman" on Broadway.) And she's actually a decent dramatic actress.

She does not have a funny bone in her body, though, and she is a deeply annoying jazz singer. And she has a ridiculous ego.

She's an okay straight actress and works as Jewish mother-in-law type.

Definitely better than Bonnie Franklin.

So young!

I’m Ramona from Arizona and I am goana go back to Spain.

R369 He also died of a mysterious illness, which usually invites speculation and trolling, but this thread has been pretty restrained in that regard.

R399 I love Diane, but to say Polly is not as good an actress is untrue. Polly received many Emmy and Tony nominations. She took the character Diane created and made it her own which is no small feat. Usually everyone prefers the movie version of a character better. More people I would say remember Polly as Flo than Diane.

I remember one of Flo's lines was "don't come a knockin' if my trailer's a rockin'." That was VERY risque dialogue for the time.

It's amazing what absolute shit people would watch when there were only three tv networks, no cable and no internet.

Now I want to buy and watch the Alice DVDs but Amazon wants like $200 for the whole set.

[quote] He also died of a mysterious illness, which usually invites speculation and trolling, but this thread has been pretty restrained in that regard.

No, he was 55 unmarried and his tributes came from Glenn Scarpelli and Charlie Sheen, it was AIDS dude. Like Prince, they'll cover it up but it was the AIDS

[quote]Caroline in the City and Suddenly Susan were shit shows that were wedged between Friends and Seinfeld

Suddenly Susan was only on Thursday in it's first year. The other years it was on Monday at 8pm or 8:30pm. This is why it dropped from #3 in its first year to 65, 81 then finally 94th place.

Caroline In The City was on Thursdays its first two years, then it moved to Monday at 9pm and 8:30pm. It was #4, 25, 47 and finally 91st place

[quote]and they also let her do her ridiculous thing where she dressed up in male drag as a mobster.

She also played a dual role as Alice's landlady, whereas she was a stereotypical Jewish person.

Except what first-world person, with access to good health care, dies of AIDS in 2019 at age 55? It doesn't happen.

I remember looking forward to seeing Martha Raye guest star as Mel's mother because Martha was a special friend to us Vietnam Veterans, but jumped up jesus, she was so fucking bad and overacted so fucking much that I was embarrassed for her. Worse still, she wasn't particularly funny in the role. Maybe her stud husband fucked the talent out of her.

LL was in awe at the lack of subtlety.

Martha Raye would take out her dentures and give gumjobs to the crew.

They are hiding something and it isn't something like cancer. Not good. Alice really went down when Flo left. Mel's antics are the ones that got a bit tiresome.

Alice was a good show. Nothing special but solid. I also liked SS and CITC. Good, but nothing special.

The 'Vera tries to kill herself' episode was very edgy for the times.

[quote] The 'Vera tries to kill herself' episode

Did Alice's singing drive her over the edge?

What the fuck are SS and CITC? Are they anything like Chu-Chu and the Philly Flash?

So I am a millennial ( yes sorry) and I have caught Alice on Logo. Some of the themes were atrocious. The first season it was good but one season she slowed it down sooooo much it was painful.

[quote] and they also let her do her ridiculous thing where she dressed up in male drag as a mobster.

Do you mean this?

She didn't do much after Alice, so that's probably a testament to how disliked she was in Hollywood. Actors who come off of a hit show usually get a lot of offers if they're popular.

R429 Linda went back to Broadway and won a Tony two years after the show ended, plus she has received multiple Tony nominations and had done quite a bit of TV work since. If she was so hated, I think she would’ve disappeared mainly from TV. Sure she could be a bitch at times, but what you say is untrue.

Bonnie Franklin, OTOH...

r430 she didn't work for a while in anything high profile on tv.

[quote]Except what first-world person, with access to good health care, dies of AIDS in 2019 at age 55? It doesn't happen.

What? It happens all the time. Antiretrovirals are failing at alarming rates now. They just don't report it. Mr X has AIDS but is 55 so he has a heart attack. Death = heart attack, no report of AIDS even though AIDS contributed massively to his deteriorating heart condition.

Broadway is where actors go to die.

In fact the only reason Broadway exists at all, is so Bernadette Peters can have a job.

[quote] SCTV: Andrea Martin as Linda Lavin

I thought that parody was hilariously brutal. But apparently, Andrea Martin was a fan of Linda Lavin, and Lavin liked the parody.

[quote] Linda Lavin was one of my favorite people, and I guess nobody outside of the theater—or only a small group of people—knows who Linda Lavin is anymore, but the people who knew that impression loved it. And I loved her. I admired her comic ability so much, and I still do. And I just ran into her the other day, and she said, “I loved what you did with me on SCTV!” I didn’t even know if she’d seen it!

Lavin has worked non stop since Alice has been off the air. Look up her imdb. I was even surprised and forgot she did at least two more tv series. So to say she didn’t do much is bs. And the stage is an actor’s medium anyway. You have to have the goods to succeed there where it’s all live, where a performance can’t be edited like in tv or film. If the Tony wasn’t a significant award, it wouldn’t be part of EGOT. I think if you asked Lavin, she’d be happy with how it’s turned out since Alice.

R436 People can win EGOTs for shit like a song from a movie or reading a book. That is some BULLSHIT. If you get an EGOT and claim it, you need to have won an Oscar for acting, directing or writing a movie, A grammy for singing or writing a song, an Emmy for acting or writing for a show and so on.

R437 no shit Sherlock.

[quote] Linda Lavin was one of my favorite people, and I guess nobody outside of the theater—or only a small group of people—knows who Linda Lavin is anymore, but the people who knew that impression loved it.

Love Andrea’s subtle diss.

R439 I know, I Lmao.

The straw explosion never gets old. I love they kept it all seasons.

No doubt PM had a huge dick. Huge. I thought his early years as Tommy were cute. They started using him less and less so his role was not fleshed out after that which is sad.

I watched the movie version recently and did not like it at all.

[quote] She didn't do much after Alice, so that's probably a testament to how disliked she was in Hollywood.

She went intentionally back into theater after "Alice"--I saw her not long after "Alice" ended in "Suix Characters in Search of an Actor" at the ART in Cambridge, MA. She was quite good.

R441 I felt the film was great. It has a great natural improv feel. But it has its detractors. As a fan of the film and series, I think you have to like the set up to fully enjoy both. Tommy got less smart assy as the years went on on the series. I really don’t know how much more you could’ve fleshed out Tommy after some time. It was really Alice and her life and Mels Diner. It would’ve felt odd doing more Tommy episodes, even though there were a few centered around him.

The movie is one of my top ten favorites. Hated the series.

She'll end the funeral with, "It's so sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEt,"

[quote] She'll end the funeral with, "It's so sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEt, - "

No, she'll end with "boppity bop."

Does anyone have a link to Lavin's WORST version of the "Alice": theme song? That's the one I want. You know it instantly when you've heard it.

Well didn’t they get worse with each season?

Season 3 is pretty awful. I wonder if Bob Carroll Jr & Madelyn Pugh Davis enjoyed recycling the same tired dialogue and situations for Lavin any less than doing it for Lucy. According to wiki, they also wrote the Paul Lynde Show and the Mothers-in-Law. Schiller and Weiskopf could write contemporary material, but Carroll and Pugh seem to have let themselves endlessly recycle old cliches.

The show had a consistent quality. Some episodes were just retreads while others were full of good chuckles. It was still a solid show. It delivered every week what it needed to.

So the brother of a woman many thought was a lesbian back in the day actually is gay? Interesting. And I genuinely feel sorry for Nancy.

R435 I can't IMAGINE Linda Lavin not being insulted and angered over Andrea Martin's imitation. It shows her to be clueless and talentless. She sings off key, and then gives a self important speech. If Lavin actually said it was funny, it's likely it was just described to her.

R435 I can't IMAGINE Linda Lavin not being insulted and angered over Andrea Martin's imitation. It shows her to be clueless and talentless. She sings off key, and then gives a self important speech. If Lavin actually said it was funny, it's likely it was just described to her.

To reiterate, no Philip, no Nancy.

No Nancy, no Facts of Life

Well it gets cancelled after reboot in Season 2

There was an old thread called something like "Did LL re-record the theme song every year?" and in it someone went into a detailed analysis of every version.

WTF, R454??? Is that some weird fucking haiku??

Someone else could've play Jo.

I mean there must've been SOME actor butch enough.

Maybe Bruce Willis?

Was Mariska Hargitay auditioning at that point?

R457 Oh no, not Bruce, he would have ruined that poor little Mackenzie Astin like he did Aaron Carter and we would be having to deal with Sad Last Days for Mackenzie Astin threads.

Maybe Rosie O'Donnell as Jo.

There's only a four year age difference between Nancy and Rosie.

In this 90s PBS turd, Linda plays a mom who hires a live-in maid who is in the US illegally. Her spoiled teenage daughter gets mad at the maid’s daughter, Maricela, and threatens to call la migra on her.

Maricela runs away and the gringa daughter, realizing she’s in big trouble for being such a stuck up puta, follows Maricela on a bus to East LA. There sees how poor everyone is and has a change of heart and convinces Maricela to come back home.

Linda never finds out what a bitch her daughter was because the brat realizes how lucky she is to be a gringa pendeja because there ain’ no sunshine in da barrio. 🙄

This is an old thread which deconstructs each version of Linda singing/scatting the Alice theme song.

Very little of that 1990s Must-Flee-TV crap was funny. I tried to watch a clip from [italic]Seinfeld[/italic] without the laugh track (the Soup Nazi episode), and whenever Julia Louis Dreyfus was not in a scene, it just fell flat. [italic]F(r)iends[/italic] was unwatchable then and is toxic now. Those other two shows were and are nonentities. Give me this show over any of those.

The funniest, most innovative comedies of the 1990s were all animated cartoons.

[quote]Does anyone have a link to Lavin's WORST version of the "Alice": theme song? That's the one I want. You know it instantly when you've heard it.

I remember when as a kid thinking "Why is she singing every line of the theme song in different singing styles?" It just sounded incoherent to my untrained ears.

[quote]In fact the only reason Broadway exists at all, is so Bernadette Peters can have a job

And what was I, chopped liver?

In the first season she was singing it like a ‘70s female folk singer by the last season she was going full on Merman doing There’s No Business Like Showbusiness.

I’m amazed Bonnie never demanded to sing her show’s theme. God knows she considered herself a triple threat.

R468 Gary talked her out of it.

Don’t take it personally, Bon. They didn’t let me sing - or write - my show’s theme either.

R470 Fuck, I had such a Daddy crush on you in Salvage One and those tight jeans made me swoon. I always wanted you and Battlestar Galactica’s Starbuck to become good buddies and hang out together, doing manly, but nerdy stuff. Don’t remember a theme song by you or otherwise.

Philip McKeon is missing from the opening credits in Season 5 (though he would return in later seasons). I vaguely remember this, but I don't remember the reason why he left and then returned. Was it because Philip was attending college? It certainly couldn't have been that he had other, bigger acting gigs.

R472 mmm interesting. Never noticed. He might’ve been focusing on school.

Season seven was the season where is CBS put it up against [italic]Facts of Life [/italic] and gave [italic] Gloria[/italic] its time slot.

This was on for 9 seasons!? The same crap over and over again. What were people thinking?

[italic]The Simpsons [/italic] have been on for 30 years but nine is about how many good ones they had, yet they refuse to give up the ghost.

The show at least had a stopping point. They even gave it a proper final episode, something [italic]The Jeffersons [/italic] did not get.

[quote] They even gave it a proper final episode, something The Jeffersons did not get.

I didn’t either.

This line on Philip McKeon's Wikipedia page cracks me up:

[quote] McKeon was named in a few magazines as a teen idol, however, never in the top twenty-five.

I didn't realize there was an official ranking of teen idols, and I didn't realize that 25 was the key cutoff point. I wonder if Philip was always bitter that he didn't make the top 25.

No, but Linda hated it! “Why isn’t my Tawmmy in the top twenty five? It doesn’t make any sense!”

I remember he disappeared from the show as he got older. He was like young kids on a soap apera—referred to but rarely seen. As he got older he fit less and less into the show.

My guess is that Linda was a black hole when it comes to needing to be the stah and the focus of all the episodes, so that probably didn’t help. Poor Tommy got lost in the shuffle.

Tawww-mee

R464 I thought The Nanny was a good show. Certainly the best featuring a middle aged Jewish woman of its era.

Was Fran not in her 30s?

Found this on LPSG. Has anyone found the clip.

[quote] He was on an episode of TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes back in the 80's. If I remember correctly, they played a practical joke on him by getting him into a changing room at a department store and then taking his pants so he couldn't leave. At one point he swings open the doors slightly and you could see the large bulge in his briefs. That was one of the times that I knew for sure I was gay. I sure wish that show was available on DVD.

What's LPSG?

Bruce wasn't a thing back in 1980

I found the show -- like most '70s sitcoms -- depressing. Why did everything have to be so ugly all of a sudden in that decade?

Because TV shows then reflected the way people actually live. In the '80s, everything became aspirational rather than realistic, and that aesthetic remains with us to this day.

r474: "Alice" versus "The Facts of Life" in the same time slot? Future Dataloungers must have been devastated.

Which shrill and inexplicably overconfident Jewess to watch in a dreadful sitcom for thirty minutes?

Decisions, decisions...

It would get harder when ABC moved [italic]Dynasty[/italic] back an hour.

Oh, God! Joan Collins OR Mrs Garrett!

How did Dataloungers survive?

So was it ever determined whether Taaawmy was the fresh freckled face in the neighborhood? Or was it Alice?

[quote]What's LPSG?

Large Penis Support Group

R493: If the song was called "There's a New Girl in Town" that kind of implies it's about Alice. I guess compared to Mel's mother, it's technically true.

Why were 70s sitcoms so visually dull? Norman Lear set the standard with All in the Family in 1972. He wanted to shoot the show in black and white, but the network wouldn't let him. So he had the set decorated in neutral colors so that watching the show would be like looking in a family photo album.

Mel's Diner was probably the worst of the lot. So grimy, so joyless.

That's the main reason why I didn't like the show.

I have had the Alice themes (plural!!!) running in my head all day at work.

Fuck!!!

A lot of concurrent shows shot on film used that same muted color palette.

Bop oh dee bop!

I preferred Bonnie. Lavin could kind of work as a leadng lady but Bonnie always seemed so out of place. We'd never get an actress like her on TV today. The '70s was a high water mark for ugly actresses.

I don't think Toni Collette is more or less pretty than Bonnie Franklin. Edie Falco isn't a beauty either.

It’s annoying how she changes the pronouns of the lyrics between seasons - between first and third person. Sometimes she drops them all together.

She probably obsessed on the song changes all year between recordings and thought it was sooooo avant-garde. Linda was probably exhausting af and probably did like 50 recordings of each before she felt she got it “right”. 🙄

If Marilyn & Alan Bergman changed the lyrics every year, did they get extra income from doing so?

Edie falco can act. Bonnie Franklin, not so much.

[quote] "Alice" versus "The Facts of Life" in the same time slot? Future Dataloungers must have been devastated.

Not to mention the rest of the McKeon family.

What if the producers just asked Linda for 10 different takes of the theme song in a single recording session before the pilot, and then used different versions every year? WHAT IF?

The entire Datalounge-Lavin Industrial Complex would implode! This site would have no further reason to exist! Would it ever have existed?

I had an edible. Ba bop ba baaaaa....

R507 is the only voice of reason, ever, on DL.

Some queen getting their MA in Music will probably do their thesis on Linda Lavin and the many variations of the Alice theme someday. I’m sure they’ll discover something about them that is vastly beyond any of us.

This guy obviously isn’t a DLer

R506, sorta like the position Steph & Seth Curry's parents were in, during last year's Western Conference Finals. Only one kid's team can win. What do you do? Hope they both score 40, it goes to double overtime, and someone else hits the winning shot. And get these cool mash-up jerseys.

Linda Lavin said the show was supposed to be renewed for a tenth season but she was out of ideas for new ways to sing the theme song.

Can someone define the vocal styling in the theme songs? Is it like a cabaret/lounge singing style? Just seemed to get weirder and weirder as years went on with the dramatic enunciations, scatting, etc —like the version where she’s trying to sound all sultry, as if she were a burlesque performer. It’s like a cross between the theme and “Let Me Entertain You”.

I feel like the theme variations were Linda’s way of constantly reminding her public and co-stars that she was really a talented singer—and therefore slumming artistically by starring in Alice. After many years it ultimately made her insufferable. She reminds me of community theater people who are always looking for any excuse to “perform” and be the “star”.

In the movie "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore", Alice Hyatt was an aspiring singer, but not a very good one. Before she started working at Mel's Diner, she did get a job as a lounge singer in some seedy Arizona bar.

[quote] Linda Lavin said the show was supposed to be renewed for a tenth season but she was out of ideas for new ways to sing the theme song.

Maybe she should have tried punk rock or rap.

Ellen Burstyn didn't attend the ceremony the year she won the Oscar. The movie's director, Martin Scorsese, accepted on her behalf.

Diahann Carroll and Valerie Perrine look absolutely shocked. Gena Rowlands looks a little surprised. Faye Dunaway kinda shrugs it off.

Cunt!

Yeah, the movie makes it pretty clear that Alice is deluded about her level of talent. Ironically, Linda seemed just as deluded.

R516 Good find! I swear Gena is saying “Oh Shit!”

What was the abuse of death?

Excessive masturbation.

He died from being overshadowed by his TV mother and his real-life sister.

Whenever the other character in the tv show have to say "Wow you have real talent," or "Gee you're good," you know they aren't.

Otherwise the audience would just know.

I never liked her speaking voice either. When trying to be dramatic she added a very artificial stammer.

Nothing could be as bad as Charlotte Rae's though.

And now I'm imagining Charlotte Rae, bra-less in a cowl neck sweater, slow-jogging across the Eastland cafeteria to slap Tootie.

And of course Charlotte, sang the FOL theme the first year, a la La Lavin, and there were even two different version of it -- one for the first four "try-out" episodes and another version for the "back nine" of that first year.

R510 Phillip looked handsome there.

R526, and they quickly canned Charlotte's version. That theme was embarrassing for any viewer above the age of 10.

R527, agree. His face shape was complemented by the fluffier hair styles of the 70s and early 80s.

[quote] And of course Charlotte, sang the FOL theme the first year, a la La Lavin, and there were even two different version of it -- one for the first four "try-out" episodes and another version for the "back nine" of that first year.

Three since the pilot used the whole second verse used on the back nine end credits to accomodate the Drummonds and Jacksons crossing over.

Charlotte got hot cock all the way to the bitter end.

Julie Piekarski comments about Philip

[quote] who starred in the beloved 1980s sitcom The Facts of Life, briefly alongside Philip’s younger sister Nancy McKeon

Yeah it actually says that

[quote]“At the time, in Hollywood, certain age kids would kind of hang together a little bit, because you want to have socialization,” she says. “I just remember [Philip and Nancy] as good people — good, kind, honest, dedicated people. And I could relate to that coming from the Midwest. We just all clicked really well.”

[quote]“I remember being at their house a couple of times, I believe it was in Burbank,” she adds. “And Philip and I went out a few times, we enjoyed each other’s company.”

Liar, I say, she just wants to use his death to get her skanky name out to the public

[quote]“He had a great laugh and that big smile,”

nice way of saying he had a horse face

[quote]“I’m going to use the word adorable because of his personality. You can say someone is handsome — and he was, he was cute to look at — but his personality came through.”

That means ugly

thuse huge feets

Damn, People getting the bottom of the barrel with Julie.

Charlotte Rae always wanted to play Mrs Garrett like Ann Romano. She begged the producers to let her get angry with the girls. But they refused and insisted Mrs Garrett always loving and fatherly.

From the surprised look on the nominees' faces at r516, it looks like Ellen Burstyn was not the front-runner that year.

So who was the favorite that year?

Ellen Burstyn – Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore

Diahann Carroll – Claudine

Faye Dunaway – Chinatown

Valerie Perrine – Lenny

Gena Rowlands – A Woman Under the Influence

I would say Gena. She was only nominated a few times but still got a special Oscar. Unlike my poor poor dear friend Glennie.

Dunaway must've been close too.

[quote] Charlotte Rae always wanted to play Mrs Garrett like Ann Romano.

Okay, Tootie - DON’T come home.

[quote] Charlotte Rae always wanted to play Mrs Garrett like Ann Romano.

Did she want to slap the girls?

Now I have a mental image of Charlotte Rae, braless, doing that hop-jog thing to answer the door. So thank you for that.

R540 Who didn’t want to slap them, especially Tootie during the Jermaine Jackson episode.

I don't recall the "handicapping" in '74, but I would guess that Dunaway and Rowlands were the favorites. Chinatown was the big box office "quality" film and Dunaway was quite good, even carrying out the daughter/sister thing well. Rowlands was considered very actressy but either "no one" saw her films (the art house ones0 or she had supporting roles, so she would have had the guilt/respect vote. Perrine really had more of a supporting than headlining role even though she was memorable in Lenny. I'm guessing that absent a clear winner, Burstyn just squeaked-in.

Re: horse faces. I'm surprised there were no rumors that SJP and McKeon were illegitimate siblings. She looks more like him than his sister.

Rowlands won the golden globe. I think more Academy members saw Alice than Woman Under The Influence though. Faye did have some momentum with the popularity of Chinatown. I think in the end what gave Ellen the edge was her leftover goodwill for her Exorcist nomination. Kind of like Judi Dench, who lost for Mrs. Brown, but won for Shakespeare the next year.

*closes eyes, deep sigh*

EDNA: (firmly) It's Emm-ehzz Garrett

Martin Scorsese can do comedy when he wants to. [italic]The King of Comedy [/italic] and [italic] After Hours [/italic] are proof of that.

Hey, I’m still dead you know.

I can't believe this thread is almost full!

Yes, but poor Philip McKeon is barely mentioned.

Just like the later seasons of "Alice."

r543, I agree that Gena Rowlands and Faye Dunaway were the favorites. Valerie Perrine gave an excellent performance in "Lenny", but it really was a supporting role. I think if she had been placed in the Supporting Actress category, she would have won.

r545, I agree about Ellen Burstyn's win. Many people thought it was a "make up" award for her losing the previous year for "The Exorcist".

McKeon was a horse faced kid who wasn't much of an actor on something that wasn't much of a show. Without DL fave Linda Lavin, Polly Holliday, et al., and the source film, this would have ended with 3 posts.

Without Lavin's inability to hold a note and attempts to disguise that by singing 'scat' this thread would be a hundred posts shorter.

I used to be sad

I-I-I used to be shy!

The funniest thing

The saddest part

Is I never knew why...

R553 pretty much true. He was fun and a smart ass on the early years of Alice, but not so much in the later years. And a face made for radio.

Used to be straight, used to be gay

Funniest thing, the saddest part is I'm neither which way

Going through life with blinders on, with out no bling

I wonder whoever told me that I could sing

There's a new girl in town and she's in the know

With a straw thrower and a camel toe

There's a new girl in town and she sings tone deaf

She was just passing through, but she'll have to stay because her son...

....has B-D-F

ah, ah, ah, ah, ahhhh

Sooooooooooooooooooo SWEET!!!!!

Nancy also had BDF.

This thread has everything: Linda Lavin, BDF, Faye Dunaway, Mrs. Garrett...

....

....

[quote]Nancy also had BDF.

Nancy also had a bigger dick

Jesus, is there really going to be a Philip Mc Keon Dies at 55 Part 2 Thread?!?

You should've scatted, Marie

R564 Believe it or not this thread is already part 2 but the first one had an awful title. Phillip also had another active thread going on just a few weeks before he died.

Another thread is required just to fill up with ba-buh-bas.

Just like how Linda managed to make all those vocal licks last just as long as the song itself (over the closing credits!).

McKeon is either buried or cremated at this point. But Alice will live forever in DLs hearts.

And Beth Howland is around to handle his ashes thankfully.

ABC should do Alice next season as one of their old sitcom specials. Who could play Alice? Lea Michele?

I meant NOT around.

They'd probably has to Hispanize it.

You don’t imagine him dying relatively young since he never got in trouble with the law.

You knew Philip McKeon hated Linda Lavin in the first season intro when he poured boiling water on her bare feet.

Did the ‘Alice’ gang put on as many wretched “shows” as ‘One Day At A Time?’

I dreaded those corny talent shows every year.

The talent show episodes were to show America how multi-talented Bonnie Franklin and Linda Lavin were.

Valerie Bertinelli was even less talented than Philip McKeon in those awful talent shows.

At least Linda and Bonnie got to screech their be-bop and wear sad clown costumes.

[Quote] ABC should do Alice next season as one of their old sitcom specials. Who could play Alice? Lea Michele?

Sara Barellis (sp?)

Thanks to DL, we know that Bonnie Franklin played Shirley Temple in one of the ODAAT talent show episodes.

He deserved to be kicked in his groin for this incredibly cheesy shot alone.

I wonder if they regretted casting him -- that happens often with child actors as they grow up -- they certainly reduced his role considerably and rejigged the premise as the show went on.

I don't think Bonnie Franklin was discussed enough in this thread.

Did Linda Lavin ever propose her own exercise video series?

I Hate To Exercise, I Love to Scat!

Now lift those trays, lift, and lift, Feel the burn r583 and just three more...

I always wondered if Bonnie’s carpet really matched the drapes?

Ew.

R581 they probably didn’t regret it. They could’ve recasted at some point if this was so. Plus it was a hit show. McKeon played a small role in that. McKeon was probably focusing on the school during the back half of the show. Plus as Tommy aged, he didn’t have the same smart ass appeal.

[quote]They could’ve recasted

Oh, dear!

Was Roseanne Conner merely Alice Hyatt 2.0?

Was Alice supposed to be Jewish?

Not LAVIN, duh. But Alice and TomTom.

How do we know Alice didn’t fake a pregnancy, kill her best friend who just had a child, abduct and rename Tommy and move to a different part of the country and start life again as a new mom, to only then when some officers came sniffing around as Tommy turned eleven take off to Arizona to evade them? I think that whole sub text is there in the opening song and the reason to redo it each time was the need to hide and throw them off the trail. It was a different time and people could get away with that stuff back then.

^Good point.

That doesn’t fit into the 70s sitcom universe.^^^

They should do a show based on Helen Wood's descent into diner waitressing after "Deep Throat," in which she co-starred as Dolly Sharp, took off. She skipped town and ended up in Bumfuck, Nowhere. She was also bipolar and died of cancer. Plenty of opportunity for laughs, tears, and specialty numbers.

Oh and she had a son too. And a boyfriend who beat her up.

Did anyone check the trunk of the car 🚘 parked suspiciously in Alice’s back yard all those years?

....

I don't think anyone but Alice ever performed on a stage

I know Tommy played a guitar for tips and Alice sang on the street and Vera tap danced in the diner

ODAAT was better.

Why won't they release what he died of? What's the cover up?

If Nancy won't say maybe one of Philip's AIDES will