Faye Dunaway and Sue Mengers,

That entry speaks more about Sue's bad ethics to try to sabotage Faye than it does about Faye's diva behavior.

Candy Bergen as Diana Christensen would've been absolutely horrible.

Barbra Streisand may have been the only star in Hollywood... for Sue Mengers. Truth of the matter is, there is not a single song or film, not one, that young people now or in the future know or will know about Barbra Streisand. Not one. Meanwhile, doesn't matter how much of a hasbeen she is, Faye Dunaway has three classics that will continue to be seen forever. Most "stars" get one of those films, if they are lucky.

R3 has lost his mind. The whole plot of Wall-e was about Hello, Fucking Dolly!

Sue and her heroine Babs fell out spectacularly, and it destroyed Sue's otherwise shockingly impressive career.

Three of the nastiest people in Hollywood. And unhappy.

Streisand isn't nasty, she's just guarded. Most people will never know what it's like to be idolized as she has been since she was young.

All obvious Lesbians.

The story of how Sue got Faye cast in Chinatown.

Streisand's catalogue of music (all of which continues to sell going back to the 1960s) will be listened to by anyone and everyone who is interested in the art of singing for as long as their is singing. She is one of a handful popular singers who young singers studying for careers in opera study. And a few of her movies will and have stood the test of time. It's kind of funny how Dolly is aging better as a classic old school musical than Funny Girl. Her youth does not seem to matter perhaps because the character is so funny and the singing so good.

[quote]It's kind of funny how Dolly is aging better as a classic old school musical than Funny Girl. Her youth does not seem to matter perhaps because the character is so funny and the singing so good.

Dolly has always been Carol's show, it has never been Streisand's, despite having made the movie. It's one of the most iconic characters in Broadway, and that's owed a lot to Channing.

That being said, It was Bette Midler's name and star power that got the recent Broadway revival greenlit.

She was far too young to play Dolly in 1969, but the real problem with the movie is how bloated it is--some of those musical numbers go on FOREVER. Director Gene Kelly needed a good editor.

Yes R11, but most people did not and of course have not seen the show with Channing. Whereas the movie exists forever. In fact it is reopening is featured theaters again- cannot remember when- soon.

[quote]Barbra Streisand may have been the only star in Hollywood... for Sue Mengers. Truth of the matter is, there is not a single song or film, not one, that young people now or in the future know or will know about Barbra Streisand. Not one. Meanwhile, doesn't matter how much of a hasbeen she is, Faye Dunaway has three classics that will continue to be seen forever. Most "stars" get one of those films, if they are lucky.

Are you saying that young people now or in future will be watching BONNIE AND CLYDE, CHINATOWN, and NETWORK more than FUNNY GIRL, HELLO, DOLLY! or THE WAY WE WERE? What makes you think so? All of this aside from Streisand's numerous hit recordings, compared to Dunaway's zero hit recordings.

Both Brilliant, Both cunts.

Bonnie and Clyde is remembered SOLELY as a Warren Beatty project. Chinatown is known as a Jack Nicholson and Polanski picture. I've barely even heard of Network. The only movie still remembered that's considered a Faye Dunaway vehicle is Mummy Dearest. But even that has only lived on as a big camp mess and only among gays.

I think Dolly for many has become with time a musical favorite. Most people today don't care if she's too young. She ACTs the part and sings the role gloriously and turned it into a singing part which it really wasn't. As time moves on Streisand as Dolly remains and Channing doesn't as great as she was and her performance established it as a hit. Streisand has mentioned how many people have said to her how much they like Dolly and she doesn't get it. She clearly dislikes it and only took it to spite Channing for beating her out of a real(the other one doesn't count) Tony.

It was and remains a terrific performance. She's crazy and mean, selfish, greedy, giving and generous but with her talent, success and deeply traumatic childhood how could she not be?

Isn't it silly, and a colossal waste of time, to argue Dunaway vs. Streisand? Both have their place in Hollywood history. Both have been well regarded and derided in their time. The can co-exist in history as great movie stars.

Alright R18 - that's enough. We don't want none of that democratic and understanding crap around here. DL doesn't go for it. Got it?

When Channing passed, the obituaries read, Iconic Star of Hello Dolly! That's far from forgotten.

Although like has been stated, if anyone is associated with the role now, it's Bette Midler given that she recently won the Tony for it and the show was a huge hit, with the biggest advance sale tickets in broadway history. Bette cemented the occasion by dining and taking pics with …. you guessed it, Carol Channing.

Who cares what Streisand's fans say to her? They probably tell her For Pete's Sake is a classic too.

What I don't understand is why Faye Dunaway - a superstar at the time - was making a made-for-TV movie ("The Disappearance of Aimee" and later "Evita"). I consider Faye THE STAR of the 70s but - let's face it - Streisand would never have stooped to making TV movies back then.

[quote]When Channing passed, the obituaries read, Iconic Star of Hello Dolly! That's far from forgotten. Although like has been stated, if anyone is associated with the role now, it's Bette Midler given that she recently won the Tony for it and the show was a huge hit, with the biggest advance sale tickets in broadway history. Bette cemented the occasion by dining and taking pics with …. you guessed it, Carol Channing. Who cares what Streisand's fans say to her? They probably tell her For Pete's Sake is a classic too.

That's all well and good, but the only movie version of HELLO, DOLLY! stars Barbra Streisand, so that's why people are arguing that she is the one who will be primarily associated with the role in the minds of future generations. Yes, there are cast albums with Channing and Midler -- and Pearl Bailey, and Mary Martin, for that matter -- but that's not the same as a movie.

Wasn't The Disappearence Of Aimee considered prestige TV at the time seeing as it had two Oscar winners - her and Bette Davis? Anyway, Faye Dunaway was definitely not a superstar at the time or ever. Her modern day comparison I guess would be someone like Natalie Portman.

Jane Fonda has turned down a lot of good roles too

[quote]What I don't understand is why Faye Dunaway - a superstar at the time - was making a made-for-TV movie ("The Disappearance of Aimee" and later "Evita"). I consider Faye THE STAR of the 70s but - let's face it - Streisand would never have stooped to making TV movies back then.

There was only 3 networks at the time. It was event TV, a Hallmark Hall Of Fame production. Costumes by Edith head, directed by Anthony Harvey who directed Katherine Hepburn to another Oscar in "The Lion In Winter" and costarring Bette Davis.

The idea that BONNIE & CLYDE is remembered only as a "Warren Beatty movie" is so absurd it doesn't merit a remark. But I'll remark anyway, since this is Datalounge.

Faye is brilliant in the film and it is remembered a major turning point in the history of cinema (along with THE GRADUATE and EASY RIDER). That's why she and Beatty were asked to present Best Picture to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the film (leading to the famous debacle).

Uhh, Faye’s face at her pinnacle could launch a thousand ships. That face only comes along ever so often. She’s a 60s/70s icon of beauty and fashion. That is just the icing on her career.

Besides, Barbra never really did drama.

Bette Davis famously talked about what a nightmare it was working with Faye on "The Disappearence Of Aimee" on the Tonight Show. It starts at the 9:00 mark. It's a must see.

Queen Bette remains the all-time greatest interviewee ever.

If any of the team Barbra people bothered to read the book or Vanity Fair article, they would realize it was just Sue being catty out of envy. That doesn’t make it fact.

Chinatown, Bonnie & Clyde and Network will be studied in film classes for as long as there are film classes.

If they were all Faye Dunaway ever did as a professional actress, her place would be cemented in movie history.

Streisand, iconic she may be, has never made a movie anywhere near as important as those three.

And that is just a fact.

Streisand will always be remembered for Funny Girl, The Way We Were and The Main Event.

[quote]Are you saying that young people now or in future will be watching BONNIE AND CLYDE, CHINATOWN, and NETWORK more than FUNNY GIRL, HELLO, DOLLY! or THE WAY WE WERE? What makes you think so?

Yes. Because they're more interesting movies. Bonnie and Clyde has the impact and nuance of a great novel - there's no comparison with tripe like Hello, Dolly.

That said, no one's going to be watching those movies just to see Faye Dunaway.

[quote]Chinatown, Bonnie & Clyde and Network will be studied in film classes for as long as there are film classes. If they were all Faye Dunaway ever did as a professional actress, her place would be cemented in movie history. Streisand, iconic she may be, has never made a movie anywhere near as important as those three. And that is just a fact.

No need to be so pissy about it. I agree that Chinatown, Bonnie & Clyde, and Network will continue to be studied in film classes, whereas it's unlikely that any Streisand film has been or will ever be studied in film classes. But we're not talking about film classes, we're talking about the public consciousness. I believe musicals and romances tend to do better in repeated viewings on home video than movies like Chinatown, Bonnie & Clyde, and Network, so I do think Funny Girl, Hello, Dolly! and The Way We Were will withstand the test of time in that sense, and that 50 years from now, the name Barbra Streisand will probably mean a lot more to the general public than the name Faye Dunaway. (Also because of Streisand's vast recorded music output, as I noted before.)

Streisand will be remembered for being a first class comedic actress. Dunaway never got a laugh in her life.

[quote]Dunaway never got a laugh in her life.

My true fans know the hilarious truth.

[quote]Bette cemented the occasion by dining and taking pics with …. you guessed it, Carol Channing.

Not quite. Bette visited Channing in her Palm Springs home about six months before rehearsals started. No dinner. Even then, Carol was today frail to go out (and definitely too frail to think about flying back to see the show).

My cousin wrote "Can I Go Now." He got to interview lots of celebs for the book. Wish he was still around.

I only have to think about Babs as the lead in NUTS and I chuckle, so I guess you're right.

"Dolly has always been Carol's show, it has never been Streisand's, despite having made the movie"

HOW OLD are you, R14, 95??? I'm old enough to remember Carol Channing in Broadway's Dolly, but you're living in a cave if you think the show is "Carol's" to anyone under 70.

I was never a fan of the movie of Hello Dolly, and I've been shocked hearing how many people not born when the movie came out love it. They never heard of Carol Channing. Movies last forever, stage shows don't.

Streisand vs Dunaway. They're so completely different comparing them is silly and unfair. The main issue for me is personality, Faye's doesn't jump off the screen like Streisand's does, she acts the part. But people love personality stars, most of the great ones had that quality. Chinatown and Network are films that will be studied in film classes for many decades to come as films, not because of Dunaway; Streisand as a personality - singer, actress - gains new fans every year. I'm as shock at that as am that Hello Dolly has an audience in 2019, but people love that shit, they love actors with big personalities.

Sorry, the above was meant for R11, not R14.

[quote]HOW OLD are you,

Coming from a Streisand troll? Pot meet kettle.

[quote]I'm as shock at that as am that Hello Dolly has an audience in 2019,

Hon, no one under 70 except for a small group of gay men and music theater afficianados are invested in Streisand. And they're sure as shit not watching the movie version of Hello Dolly, which was never a big hit to begin with. Any success that musical has had in recent years has nothing to do with Babs. Stop embarrassing yourself.

And if Streisand is Dolly then:.

Alyson Reed is Cassie

Elizabeth Taylor is Desiree

Madonna is Evita

and, despite 500 threads to the contrary. Lucy IS Mame!

I'm 62, grampappy R41, Much younger than you 95; no kettle. Sorry.

You're so fearful, clinging to Carol Channing so desperately, I feel your pain.

I'm not pretending twenty year olds are playing Carol Channing on a regular basis.

Hey, the kids have stopped bumping Cardi B for that hot new remix of Before the Parade Passes By. Streisand's so hip, so cool! It just gets my walker a wobbling!

I never said 20 year olds, dear, I said people not born when HD came out - that would make them 49 or younger. Does basic mathematics severely decline when one gets to be octogenarian +?

Now, back to our regular program: Faye Dunaway and Sue Mengers

I can NOT buh LEEVE that people are leaving that ultimate late 60s romantic caper out of the FD classics — THE THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR. Speaking of young people and awareness, that’s the one the cool kids know, not the turgid NETWORK.

Streisand can be a bit cold, deluded, and a perfectionist, but I've never heard a story of her being as nasty and mean spirited as Dunaway. If she makes a diva demand, it's usually to make herself look better or for her film to be better, but if Dunaway makes a demand it's usually impossible to fulfill and no one knows why the hell she wants it.

Sorry bitches, this is how Faye will forever be remembered. For all eternity

[quote]Hon, no one under 70 except for a small group of gay men and music theater afficianados are invested in Streisand. And they're sure as shit not watching the movie version of Hello Dolly, which was never a big hit to begin with. Any success that musical has had in recent years has nothing to do with Babs. Stop embarrassing yourself.

"Hello Dolly" just played in theaters again last weekend for the 50th anniversary. My friends went in Pa. He texted me from the theater and I texted, you haven't been in a room with this many homosexuals since your Splash days and said it was a very mixed crowd with lots of guy/girl couples.

FUNNY GIRL, HELLO, DOLLY! and THE WAY WE WERE were all Streisand pictures. People bought tickets to see a BARBRA STREISAND picture and that's what she gave them.

Bonnie & Clyde, Chinatown and Network were not Dunaway pictures. All of the Faye Dunaway pictures, where she was the whole movie, bombed at the box-office. She couldn't carry a movie by herself. She wasn't a sympathetic figure and audiences didn't root for her. That's why she was never a superstar or iconic actress in the way that Streisand is.

I don't see Barbra tossing out her rental videotapes onto the parking lot.

^^^Well to be fair, Babs has a video rental store in her own mall in the basement.

I love it, R50. But what about CAROL CHANNING??? Boo hoo......boo hoo.

Even so, r52, she's kind......

R46, I can't believe I forgot The Thomas Crown Affair. Not a Dunaway fan, but that was Faye at her absolute peak, the epitome of cool, class and style. I don't remember a lot of individual scenes in movies, but I'll always remember that chess game.

Poor Faye is barely even mentioned in her own thread.

The elderly Streisand trolls are still pretending the poor dear is relevant among the younger generation.

[quote]FUNNY GIRL, HELLO, DOLLY! and THE WAY WE WERE were all Streisand pictures

All of which are extremely relevant among the younger generation. Shit, they bump the Funny Girl soundtrack at the clubs all the time. I think one of the football teams even does a good luck jerk off that ends in them shooting a pool of jizz at a poster of their sex queen Barbra.

Who needs Lil Nas and Becky G when you have Barbra Streisand?

Plus Faye has Gucci. Fashion is immortal.

I was at a hot club in LA the other night when they showed the reveal scene of Mirror has two faces. When I tell you that straight guys everywhere started cheering and whistling at the vision on the screen. Two guys even broke up with their girlfriends ON THE SPOT because they were so attracted to her.

Honest.

R57, will you stop at nothing? CAROL CHANNING IS FUCKING DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Streisand did not take the role to spite Channing because she lost the Tony to her. Sheesh. She did it because she was contracted to 3 musicals before she even made the movie Funny Girl. She tried to get out of Dolly. Streisand is one of the most stable and sane people in show business. She has a very wide group of long time and loyal friends in all venues of show business; on the business side, the technical side, artists and stars. Essentially the same team has been working for and with her since they started. She has outlasted and out lived many of her collaborators. These attributes are not those of an unreasonable and/or abusive personality. Fay is such a person and also has done some brilliant work as an actress. My guess is that she has severe borderline personality disorder which often get worse with age. Something is clearly wrong with her.

Correction: Fay is NOT such a person (above)

dunaway was such a cunt that even cunty sue hated her. that's wild!

barbs wanted out of doing dolly? bullshit, she ate it up, poorly

Network is a classic film, shockingly prescient .

Funny Girl is a classic film, shockingly prescient.

[quote]I'm not pretending twenty year olds are playing Carol Channing on a regular basis.

On a regular basis?! Dude, twenty year olds aren’t playing Carol Channing AT ALL.

"Chinatown" is way overrated. No one takes this scene seriously.

“The Way We Were” is way overrated. No one takes ANY scene seriously.

30’s by way of 70’s hair and makeup. Almost as bad as the mom in A Christmas Story, lol. ^

Faye looked the part and the time in Chinatown.

Carol Carol Carol, R70. Yes, Hello Dolly is YOUR role, even in death.

When I think of Barbra Streisand, I think of her singing career not movie career.

When I think of Faye Dunaway I think of classic movies of the 60s and 70s.

I'm 35 yrs old for what it's worth.

I'm sure the idols I had in the 90's will be perceived differently by those younger than me.

Living through something always gives you a different perspective.

I remember my grandmother telling me when she was growing up she and her friends thought Ginger Rogers and Myrna Loy were the greatest stars ever, and didn't care for Davis and Crawford cuz their movies were boring, but then as my grandmother became middle aged, Davis and Crawford were remembered as the greater stars and Rogers and Loy weren't remembered much at all.

Time is a thief.

It's too bad this thread couldn't have been about Sue Mengers.

time will in prescient, show that dunaway is over rated in most of her films, no one raves seriously or in prescient bout her fab acting skills, her tawdry behavior on/off set is unprofessional and tacky,... not prescient, she will fall into the dust bin of history with the ever prescient bette davis flicking ashes on her grave.

R74 Who?

I just turned 40 and have ZERO INTEREST in anything Barbara Streisand. I often ask my older friends and acquaintances what the big deal was and they all (mostly) agree that they have no clue. She was a terrible actress and while being a notably great singer - none of her songs appeal to anyone anymore. She was too show tunes and no longer relevant. I can only imagine what Millenials and Z's think (many probably have never even heard of Babs - shock and awe, but true). The cherry on the sundae is that she was also...well....not attractive. Faye might have been a bitch and a diva but EVERYONE and ANYONE who knows or cares a damn about films need only watch 3 of the greatest films ever made that all prominently feature Faye. She was also other-worldly gorgeous. Both women will be remembered forever, but Faye appeals far greater to the younger set than Babs. That is a GIVEN.

R75 I don't think Dunaway will be remembered as overrated in Bonnie & Clyde, Chinatown, or Network.

Her behavior off screen won't factor in just as horrible male behavior of past stars isn't used to degrade their performances.

Bette Davis, Dunaway, Streisand will all be remembered for their stellar work.

If you don't like Dunaway, or you don't like Streisand that is your right and opinion, but shouldn't be projected onto what future generations will feel.

Figures, r76.

Oh right r75, and prescient Judy will flick ashes onto the dustbin containing Babs.

It’s all just favoring old people because they came first. Such a childish mentality.

I suspect Faye's bad behavior in Boston has ended her career. Why would anyone hire her now?

R75 "time will in prescient" ??

Is English your first language?

R81 Well, Gary Busey, Charlie Sheen, and James Woods still get work - so you never know.

According to IMDb, the French are still willing to hire her. Faye Dunaway Actress (115 credits) Visceral (pre-production) Director: Frédéric Jardin Writers: Frédéric Jardin, Stephen Prentice Stars: Faye Dunaway, Georgina Campbell

[quote]Who needs Lil Nas and Becky G when you have Barbra Streisand?

You're an idiot. Lil Nas is a one-hit wonder, and no one outside of Mexican teens has even heard of Becky G. To compare that trash to an icon like Streisand is laughable. Streisand is the biggest selling female artist of all-time in the US.

Eyes of Laura Mars gives us a great Faye role and a great Barbra song.

Heaven.

[quote] Dunaway never got a laugh in her life.

Barbra Streisand has never been a huge star outside of the US. Many Americans are very surprised when they hear this.

Bradford Dillman was a cutie. I wonder if Barbra fucked him on the set of The Way We Were.

Or maybe Redford and Bradford DP'd her?

When I think of Barbra Streisand I think of a poor violated microphone that was painted white without its consent. When I think of Sue Mengers I think of Dyan Cannon asking for a glass of water and two lesbians in The Last of Sheila. When I think of Faye Dunaway I think of her breasts joyfully jiggling under her blouse in Network.

Faye wins.

[quote] Bradford Dillman was a cutie. I wonder if Barbra fucked him

I don't know about DIllman but there was Peter Jennings back when she was trying to become a serious influence on the democratic party. He had to get some payment for the speeches he wrote for her and the general political tutoring.

Bounce, boobies, bounce

And the trolls infest a Faye thread as well...

Why does no one mention Faye in Towering Inferno?

Someone doesn't seem to know what the word "prescient" means.

"having or showing knowledge of events before they take place"

[quote]She was too show tunes

Not in the '70, she wasn't. That was the whole point of "The Broadway Album" in '85-'86 - Streisand coming back to the show tunes she had abandoned as a recording artist in the early '70s. Her big hits in the '70s were Evergreen, Stoney End, Enough is Enough, You Don't Bring Me Flowers, Songbird, The Main Event, Prisoner (Laura Mars Theme), My Heart Belongs to Me, Guilty ... no show tunes there.

"Bradford Dillman was a cutie. I wonder if Barbra fucked him on the set of The Way We Were."

Can't imagine such a thing. Dillman was married to SUZY PARKER.

Faye had a couple good roles with a couple good directors, that's all. She's a one-note actress and she knows it- which is where the insecurity and diva-like behavior comes from.

She didn't even bother to evoke JC in "Mommie Dearest", just played herself. Movie might not have been camp with a better actress.

Barbra Streisand has a >$600 million fortune, while Faye is bankrupt, was just fired from a D-list Broadway play, and pees in dumpsters.

Barbra won.

Faye Dunaway was a wonderful movie star and actress in her prime. Chinatown is a great film- and she is terrific. Something is clearly wrong with her and has gotten worse with age/time- my guess is extreme boarder line personality disorder. It's a bit sad. Streisand remains a huge star, major philanthropist and progressive activist. Her CDs sell big, her catalogue sells bigger, even her films play in festivals, and she sells out arenas at 77. Someone said she is not known outside the US- then why do her concerts sell out in UK, Germany, Australia, France and no surprise Israel? Certainly her voice has aged but her reviews remain mostly raves- Google them. She is on first name basis with political leaders world-wide. Her concerts are packed with entertainment and political VIPs. Ever wonder why even if you claim she is off your radar? I would rate her as one of a handful of show business geniuses- Charlie Chaplin, Sinatra, Hepburn, Grant (Cary), Streep, Day Lewis, Garland, Armstrong, perhaps Elvis, Spielberg... and/or handful of singers Garland, Franklin, Piaf, Fitzgerald, King Cole, Sinatra.

Barbra Streisand is not as famous internationally as she is domestically. She can sell concert tickets but she is not a mega superstar, major gay icon and not someone that is talked about all that much. If she did a European tour I have no doubt she would sell out, as would Cher and Tina Turner but she’s wouldn’t get the type or press and fawning she gets in the US. Some entertainers who are mega-stars in the US can't translate their fame internationally, for a variety of reasons. Streisand is not well known at all in non-English speaking countries. She could walk down the street in Tokyo, Buenos Aires or Madrid and nobody would know who the fuck she was.

Conversely, if Madonna walked down the street in any of those cities she would be mobbed. Madonna is a true international star.

[quote]I just turned 40 and have ZERO INTEREST in anything Barbara Streisand. I often ask my older friends and acquaintances what the big deal was and they all (mostly) agree that they have no clue. She was a terrible actress and while being a notably great singer - none of her songs appeal to anyone anymore. She was too show tunes and no longer relevant. I can only imagine what Millenials and Z's think (many probably have never even heard of Babs - shock and awe, but true). The cherry on the sundae is that she was also...well....not attractive. Faye might have been a bitch and a diva but EVERYONE and ANYONE who knows or cares a damn about films need only watch 3 of the greatest films ever made that all prominently feature Faye. She was also other-worldly gorgeous. Both women will be remembered forever, but Faye appeals far greater to the younger set than Babs. That is a GIVEN.

Thanks for sharing, but your "reasoning" makes no sense at all.

[quote] Someone said she is not known outside the US- then why do her concerts sell out in UK, Germany, Australia, France and no surprise Israel?

Because said someone is an idiot. Besides her music catalogue, she is a fucking 2 time Academy Award winning MOVIE STAR . Why do you think they say the Oscars are watched by a billion people? Because the world loves Hollywood. They actually do have movie theaters, Home Video and cable outside the US, I know hard to believe, but true.

I've never watched a Streisand movie but I know who she is from hearing her name on TV, movies and the Internet. I have watched China Town twice and had never heard of Faye Dunaway before she flubbed Moonlights Oscar. China Town is not her movie, it's Jack Nicholsons. Any time Bonnie and Clyde is discussed it's to highlight how Warren Beatty got it made and how he helped usher out the old studio system. I've never heard Faye Dunaway connected to that film, honest to God. She's just not a big deal.

That said, I've been catching up on her and I'll give her this; she's far more cunty than anybody I've ever heard of. She tossed her piss at the China Town director. Shes a hundred and just got fired from a play for being awful to staff. So she may be more interesting than Streisand I guess

It's Chiatown, Jake.

R100, Barbra never toured Europe(or anywhere, for that matter) when she was younger, so she never built a fanbase there like most other singers. She still sold lots of records in Europe during her prime, and had no problem selling out arenas across Europe just a few years ago.

Europe is heavily pop/dance music focused, and that was not Barbra's forte. She was never going to have the kind of success on the continent the way that Madonna did. Asia and Latin America are much the same way, in that they love pop and spectacle.

Still, I think Barbra is just fine with her vast wealth and unparalleled accomplishments. Her career will never be equaled by another woman, ever.

"China Town"? You really must be young, R103. Like six and a half?

Beware, charlie is all over this thread.

I'm late Gen X and I've never known a Barbra queen my age, she's definitely a "thing" with the older crowd. It's the boomer gays who really worship her. Millennial gays know who she is of course, but there's even less interest from them than there is from Gen X.

Barbs has bad vibes

faye would have been fun, kinda…..sue? yes!!!!

Faye remains an Icon.

Barbra has no style.

Faye is still thin.

Barbra? Not so much.

faye was laffed out of town for this tacky Gucci ad.

HILARIOUSLY

^ Faye wears a turban...

Both look sensational and could still pass for fifty.

Barbara has WAY more money - that I will give you. Faye is the better actor, Barbara the far greater singer (Babs is amazing there for sure). But please do tell me a Babs song that any Millenial or younger would recognize or EVER, EVER, EVER download? Her music is beyond tired. Sadly, she had a great voice, but never put it to much good use. Her music is fuddy duddy, old and repellant to most. Xers don't like her, so I can't imagine the youngins even knowing that she even existed. Movies have a way of standing the test of time. Faye starred in maybe 5 greats and 3 of the GREATEST films of all time. Chinatown alone is considered the greatest movie of all time by a huge set of critics. And it gains in the polls every year.

R115, why would anyone care whether a millenial would recognize Barbra Streisand's music? Seriously.

Perhaps because they are the future?????

Why can't we love both Faye and Babs.

I do.

I also love Davis AND Crawford.

All these aruments on DL make me think homosexuality is a mental disorder.

Gays arguing over which entertainer is better - no wonder they hate us.

If I can step in for a moment and turn the topic back to Sue Mengers? I really wanted to read the book, but it costs 15 bucks to download it from Amazon. Doesn’t that seem a bit steep? I hate to spend that much on a book I’ll probably just read once. Guess I’ll check my library for a copy.

Okay, carry on about Babs, Faye, etc.

[quote] Faye is still thin. Barbra? Not so much.

Barbra can afford to eat.

[quote]Chinatown alone is considered the greatest movie of all time by a huge set of critics. And it gains in the polls every year.

That's just silly.

R116

Maybe...

Because of my money.

R112

Don't you dare

PLEASE STOP ABOUT STREISAND VS. DUNAWAY!

I just want to hear about Mengele and her bottom bitch!

Can anyone comment if Bette's acting was any good when playing Mengers? Her acting style in that clip is very "Bette" , reminding me of that amazing drag version of Annie Wilkes if Bette played the role.

Another question, why wasn't Faye offered the wife part in The Godfather. She certainly was more suited to the role than Diane Keaton...

Too icy, R125

Maybe it’s because I’ve seen The Godfather a million times but I can’t picture Fay as Kaye - not only was she too icy, and too beautiful, but she reads as way too patrician. Fay looks like the kind of WASP who would never give Michael the time of day; and like many on the DL, she would consider Italians to be “white-adjacent.”

Keaton was enough of a WASP, and pretty in a non ethnic way, to be an exotic trophy for Michael; but you could clearly see her feeling the same way about him. He was different than all the boys she grew up with, and probably much better off. Kaye worked as a schoolteacher, so she was middle class - Connie’s wedding would have seemed quite fancy as well as culturally odd.

^^I’m apparently illiterate enough to fuck up the silent E in both names.

I always get Lisa Eichhorn confused with Lisa Eilbacher.

Shame on Gene Hackman for being mean to whoever it was he was being mean to.

[quote] and too beautiful

Haha!

R127

Only interested in REAL Italians with appropriate VILLAS.

The truth.

Sue Mengers about Fade Dunaway

Here's another Vanity Fair article on Sue's rise and fall. I am fascinated by this woman.

Imagine suckin some slobs dick and u look up and its Babs' son.....

And just as he is about to blow his load in your face, you start singing "Don't Rain On My Parade".

At the time that Mengers was speaking those lines, she was right: In the 1970's there was only one female star whose name alone could bankroll a movie, and that was Barbra Streisand.

So did Fonda really turn down Chinatown? She says no. (according to a poster in another thread.)

It would have been during the period where she wasn't getting offers.

[quote]Imagine suckin some slobs dick and u look up and its Babs' son.....

What did I miss, what's this from?

"So did Fonda really turn down Chinatown?"

I cannot imagine anyone would consider hiring Fonda for it. In the early 1970s, she was persona non grata, Hanoi Jane and all that. Plus the complex serious actress that Fonda became in the late 70s didn't exist yet (except for Klute). She was not working, and her presence in Chinatown would have changed all the attention to her. She was very divisive. Btw, I knew several Vietnam vets and objectors to the war, they all thought Fonda was a joke.

Except she was not R139- turns out she was pretty much right about the war and our gov't lying to us all along about the whole thing.

You think Jane Fonda was THE ONE telling everyone all that, R140? A lot of her content was right, but the delivery was crude and buffoonish. That's why the media focused on and played up Fonda's antics. The real anti-war movement was out there at the same time - vets, students, journalists, objectors - making the real difference. Fonda was not generally embraced by them. Another thread, another time.

R118 Have you ever heard straight men argue over which team or athlete is better going back to the 1910s? For which they don't even have film proof?

Gays have nothing on them for being mentally ill. In Europe and South America you risk bodily injury and possibly death if you support the wrong team. I have yet to hear of a gay man being murdered for preferring Joan Crawford to Bette Davis. Though there might be support for it.

And nobody held a knife to Babs neck to do Dolly you clown. Her contract was with Ray Stark for a number of movies which she was forced to sign if she wanted FG. Stark had nothing to do with the movie of HD. She did it to gloat over Channing's unfortunate tendency when shot in Todd AO to look like Bella Lugosi and for winning that fucking Tony(which Babs claimed was due to anti-Semitism. Poor Barbra if she's not being persecuted for being a woman it's for being jewish which is an incredible handicap on Broadway.) Though she should have called Stark's bluff. He was going to get who? Anne Bancroft? Carol Burnett? Shirley MacLaine? Mimi Hines?

Oh yes she was R141. I was there! We had her come to my college (Colgate University) to give a talk. She was fierce, and right on the money. She made a mistake going to Hanoi- but in general she was right.

Oh yes she was R141. I was there! We had her come to my college (Colgate University) to give a talk. She was fierce, and right on the money. She made a mistake going to Hanoi- but in general she was right.

Oh yes she was R141. I was there! We had her come to my college (Colgate University) to give a talk. She was fierce, and right on the money. She made a mistake going to Hanoi- but in general she was right.

Of Dolly, Barbra said simply "I knew I was too young for the part, but I didn't have the nerve to turn it down." You have to remember that Barbra had signed contracts for Funny Girl, Hello Dolly, and On A Clear Day before she had ever shot the first frame of film in Hollywood. How could she turn it down? It was the biggest musical on Broadway for the last decade. I don't blame her at all for doing it and she has some marvelous moments, especially when you consider that filming was absolute torture for her because of both Matthau and Kelly.

Yes Jane was right but her way of showing it was so wrong it bordered on insanity. It would be like laughing in the face of the American men and women who fought in Iraq because there were WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

Who would pull that kind of shit? No one.

Are there any behind the scenes stars like Sue Mengers or Robert Evans around today or do we have to wait for history to tell the story?

Mengers, like Pauline Kael, had an unhealthy obsession over Streisand. Pauline Kael's review of Funny Lady was so jilted lover-esque that after reading it, Streisand actually called her to find out if she was okay.

"Yes Jane was right but her way of showing it was so wrong it bordered on insanity."

100% CORRECT, dear youngsters.

"Oh yes she was [R141]. I was there! We had her come to my college (Colgate University) to give a talk."

R145, if an ounce of that it true, and I doubt it is, you have to NOT be an asshole and vote form the Democratic candidate in 2020.

That Vanity Fair article was good. Actually makes her sympathetic. I empathize with her view of her job. When I look back at my stressful job and people still,working in it, I think “how did I do it”. Scary that the business was too tough for even her. Brutal.

R148, you mean power agents? You have your Ari Emmanuels and Kevin Huvanes, but they aren't nearly as colorful as the agents of old. Yesterdays agents were loyal to their company and allowed to thrive in that setting. Todays agents are always thinking about partnering and merging and backstabbing and maneuvering to create their own agencies.

R142 - how about Barbara Harris?

Barbara harris was years ahead of babs in talent...

And yet Barbara Harris died and nobody noticed.

faye aint good enuf to suck miss mengers' pussy.....

Faye never really had a perky bosom

sue and her buddys used to call faye the FACE OF YESTERDAY...

But Harris didn't want anyone to notice.