Cary Grant and Randolph Scott

Handsome friends

Drool

That's always been the speculation.

They were so close

Here's a story detailing the speculation. Most of these photos are from a photo shoot for the story.

Does DL have this thread every 4 or 5 years?

They looked so good together.

I can't tell who is who but I know this is them.

They lived together for several years and while the story was this was done for the sake of economy they were both very successful at the time. and raking it in Seems the "speculation" of the romantic nature of their relationship was more than rumor or gossip. Recommend Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon volumes 1 and 2 for more queer history of that time and place. Anger was "there" and quite fearless in his day.

Is this news to Baby Gays?

I hate to break it to you, OP, but Cary was GAY.

MUST we school these children?????

Apparently so, R10, and some elders, too. I was not familiar with Randolph Scott's career and did some searching and discovered the relationship. Scott was a smart man, invested throughout his career and died having a 100 million fortune.

I guess it might be arrogant of me but I thought this story was very well known and had been discussed here repeatedly. However, I need to remember that many of my even 30 something coworkers don't know who Cary Grant is?

Great Scott, Grant me the strength to not beat off imagining Scott and Grant doing it with each other.

R12, what hasn't been discussed here repeatedly?

I'm amazed by how many threads I've missed when I scroll down the threads.

Props to R3 for the photo with the delightful Nancy Carroll. Scott came thiiiis close to confirming every bit of gossip in Boze Hadleigh’s book “Gay Hollywood.”

I do believe that they were lovers and it was this "photo shoot" that brought me over the finish line. I mean there's acting, but... I do recall seeing an interview somewhere where Grant's daughter was asked about him being gay--of all people. As if she would know... and of course she responded that he wasn't but she added that Grant was quite amused by all of the speculation about himself being gay. So, Grant was fully aware of all of the murmurings. Whenever I see the images from this "photo shoot" I always wanted some journalist to show these images to his daughter and ask her for her thoughts. I also saw something where Scott's son vehemently denies that such a relationship ever existed. So, call it what you want but I believe that they were lovers--even if it was just a one time same-sex incident for either of them.

I also recall reading somewhere that either Grant or Scott tried to commit suicide when he learned that the other was marrying some woman.

I thought it was known within the Hollywood community that Grant and Scott were lovers. Just like Rock Hudson being gay. Within the industry it was common knowledge, but not to the public.

Scott's son said his father couldn't be gay because he was examined at the hospital and they would have known.

Old news, OP, the official versions started coming out in the 80s and 90s, after Grant and Scott passed and the official biographies began to be published. FYI they didn't live together continuously for 12 years, they both married during that time, and married women with money. But they continued to be "best friends" during those marriages, and one biographer said that when they were old and gray and retired from films, they were seen lovingly holding hands in a LA restaurant.

BTW I recommend the film "My Favorite Wife" (1940), which is a hilarious comedy, and features Scott as Grant's romantic rival. At one point, Grant finds he's unable to stop thinking about his rival looking godlike in his swim trunks and sees visions of this hot man everywhere he looks. Yes, that was an in-joke.

LOL, R18! That's him! In the interview that I had seen, the son was off of the charts in defending his father and dismissing any notions that he was gay. But, were I Jennifer Grant (Cary Grant's daughter) and/or even Dyan Cannon (her mother and Grant's ex-wife), I would foster the rumor. I would respond to questions with a "I don't know or think so, but if they did, one could see the love that they had for each other," I think that they should tacitly promote them as an example of what a deeply loving gay relationship can look like.

In my opinion, this just promotes the generational longevity of both men and their work. Also, it gives the gays something to dream about.

This was the image that caused me to say; "Hmm..."

This was the image that led me to conclude that; "Yep. They were fucking."

R20 the gays and a few nerdy film girls and maybe a straight guy or two will be the only ones who give a shit about these two now or in the future

I disagree, R23. Cary Grant represented the true epitome of style and elegance which he still holds til this very day, There was just this je ne sais quoi about his image--even to this day. Randolph Scott is there for the ride. Many do not know much about Cary Grant the actor or his movie roles but they do know about Cary Grant, the style maker.

"Mr. Scott, I have thoroughly examined your father's hole and I assure you the gay rumors are false."

Please note, r18, that Randolph Scott's son was his adopted son. Scott fathered no children in his marriage, and for much of that time he lived in California and his wife lived in North Carolina. Grant and Scott were of an era when being gay was considered a mental illness, if not a crime, and they were under tremendous pressure to overcome this 'tendency' or lose their very lucrative careers. Grant married a number of times, unsuccessfully, save his last marriage. He had a notorious affair with Sophia Loren. He tried very hard to be straight, right to the end. Scott came from money, and married a DuPont heiress, so he was perhaps less concerned about the issue. When Grant married Barbara Hutton, they lived in the grand Santa Monica beach house seen in some of the photos above, but Scott somehow managed to live there as well throughout Grant's marriage. Neither of them left any testament of their love, save the very suggestive publicity photo shoots done over the decade of the 1930s. Kind of like hiding in plain sight.

Like I wrote earlier; There's acting...

But.....

R27 And cupcakes for dessert....(squinting at photo)

randy scott was a stock broker before getting into acting and he was also married to a Dupont for a while. He died with an estate worth over 100 million a long long time ago. HE and cary were close friends and more...................their whole lives and cary died with an estate wortth over 60 million. They spent a lot of time with investments and getting very very rich. Just a weird aside bit of info

They both did very well for themselves, R30. As R26 pointed out, their love for each other was during a time when such a relationship was prohibited, frowned upon, and/or considered a mental illness. But, boy-oh-boy, would I spin that relationship today!

R21, R22, I don't know if you're being facetious, but, obvious fakes.

Hmm... R32. I'd say that R21 is fake but R22 looks very genuine to me. Yep. It's a studio shot but I've always picked up something deeper going on there with the subjects there.

But, let's talk about the photographer of this "photo-shoot." No one else thinks that he didn't have any idea about the shots he was going after? The perception that these images would give off? There was no one else in the studio system that looked at these publicity shots and didn't say; "Now, wait a minute..."

I wonder how people back in the 1930s responded to those pictures. Of course people back then were more naive about homosexuality, but those pictures are pretty blatantly homoerotic.

They were two men who loved each other. I think they must have had some pretty good times. And what a gorgeous couple. Their life together must have seemed like a fairytale, so to speak.

The home that Cary and Randy shared. If these walls could talk...

[quote]I wonder how people back in the 1930s responded to those pictures. Of course people back then were more naive about homosexuality

They weren't as naive as you might think, R36. There were the gays in Hollywood and everyone (at least in Hollywood) were very aware of the William Haines openly gay relationship and how his acting career was destroyed because of it. Hollywood is about selling an image. It hasn't changed. But, it would be interesting to know how the average person viewed these photos and their perceptions--especially the gays of that time.

R30 It's funny how rich he was considering Cary was notoriously cheap and frugal. Apparently, he used to save the buttons off his old shirts so they could be reused again, or some such nonsense.

I refuse to participate in this thread unless someone has any facts to disprove my suspicion that

1. All these photographs around the pool were taken on the one day.

2. These two shared a house for merely five weeks.

I believe in Scotty Bowers book and documentary, he confirmed that they were lovers. (I think he had a threesome with them, but I don't remember if that's accurate.)

I recommend both, there is a little bit of crossover info in the doc, but the director did a good job of including different revelations then were in the book and elaborated on some things, too.

HIs childhood stories are wild. He used to suck off catholic seminary students when he was 12 for the money, and he wasn't even catholic!!! there was a seminary school across the street from his house!!

Sorry. Scotty Bowers was an escort and pimp to the stars in the 40's and 50's. He book is JUICY.

The "Bachelor Hall" photo shoot took place in the early 1930s, and the prevailing attitude in Hollywood at the time was "live and let live." This was an extension of the Roaring '20s attitude of hard partying and sexual promiscuity, experimentation and fluidity, so Grant and Scott were basically wink wink, nudge nudging us with their depiction of domestic bliss. However, by the time these photos were published, attitudes were swinging back to social conservatism and, with the implemenation of the Hays Code and the Catholic Legion of Decency threatening boycotts, studio bosses quickly tried to squash any rumors or gossip about their stars' sexuality and ordered Grant and Scott to find themselves wives, which they did. Billy Haines quit Hollywood in 1935 to live his life with Jimmy Shields rather than play straight for public consumption.

I'm the only one here who has ever met Cary Grant. Unfortunately, it was during the final years of his life.

Clearly a couple.

R43 Billy Haynes was quite the rebel and renegade! He was the highest paid actor in hollywood when he walked away, Right R43? I Think he was considered the first mega movie star. It would be like if the Rock suddenly came out, for all you young-ins.

r38 that's what I meant. People in Hollywood must've known what was going on, but what about the average person in Bumfucke? I wonder if those pictures raised eyebrows or people in Bumfucke really thought they were "just friends."

BTW the house is very nice, but for $11 million you could get something that's not in between two giant parking lots and next to the highway.

* Er, I guess he didn't "come out". But he refused to go into the closet and butch it up with a beard marraige and live a lie. (He lived as an openly gay man and didn't care who knew). He told the studio to fuck off and quit the business.

No Rose, OP, nobody has ever heard this rumour. What a scoop! And there are pictures!

[quote]I'm the only one here who has ever met Cary Grant. Unfortunately, it was during the final years of his life.

I never met him but I remember liquidating one of his brokerage accounts after he had died and the estate was being settled. The account that I had was a little over $500k and everything was sold at the market. This was about 1986, I think and I worked for a discount brokerage house.

William Haines interior design.....

Compare this smile with the his smiles with Randolph.

[quote]studio bosses quickly tried to squash any rumors or gossip about their stars' sexuality and ordered Grant and Scott to find themselves wives, which they did.

Cary Grant married the actress Virginia Cherrill in 1934 and she filed for divorce a year later, citing mental cruelty and claimed Grant hit her. Scott married the Du Pont heiress in 1936 but it only lasted three years.

Grant and Scott lived in the Santa Monica beach house for 12 years, from 1932 to 1944. Their respective wives apparently also lived there, as well as Grant's second wife Barbara Hutton. Talk about a crowded house! When Grant applied for US citizenship in 1942, Scott signed as a witness, and the citizenship documents list Grant and Scott as living at the same address.

It's a fascinating story, and would make a great biopic.

Barbara Hutton had a beach house in California? Pics? Certainly not the one above.

[quote]It's a fascinating story, and would make a great biopic.

Let's do a GoFundMe!

No, Barbara Hutton moved into Grant and Scott's house.

Offhand, I can't think of any thirtysomething actors who could convincingly play Cary Grant or Randolph Scott.

Such a happy couple....

WHET Randolph Scott?

Luckily.....

It was pretty tacky of him to Marry Hutton. Did she dare him? Pay him? Did he do as a charity fuck? He was so way out of her league and he was successful. She married mostly playboy sportsman gigolos. Gottfried von Cramm was a nice guy, gay. Maybe she liked marrying gay "friends".

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Cary Grant Was Gay/Bi, says friend Orry-Kelly

"He didn't know if his name was Arthur or Martha..."

[quote] Billy Haynes was quite the rebel and renegade! He was the highest paid actor in hollywood when he walked away, Right [R43]? I Think he was considered the first mega movie star.

William Haines was a star in the late silent and early sound era.. His pictures were popular but MGM did not give him a big star buildup, and in fact, offered him only a 'featured player' contract in 1931. He was arrested in a Los Angeles YMCA in 1933, which prompted LB Mayer to give him the ultimatum to marry if he wanted to continue his career. Haines left Metro, made a couple of low-budget features and then set up his design studio. In 1936 he was named in 'El Porto Scandal,' in which a beach house party of gay men was attacked by local residents on the rumor that one of the men (Haines's lover Jimmy Shields) had oral sex with a local boy. That pretty much finished any hope of a screen career for Haines.

Fortunately, friends like Joan Crawford, Carole Lombard, Ann Warner and George Cukor (who was at the El Porto party and fled before he could be ID'd) hired Haines to design their homes, which made his reputation as an interior decorator. Cukor also hired Haines anonymously to do set decoration for some of his films.

Cary Grant was handsome, but he wasn't young looking himself. He dressed beautifully and he was so praised as being beautifully handsome that I guess now people want to think he was gay. I think that there were many better looking and more classically handsome male movie stars. Grant was a great comic actor and the poster boy for MOVIE STAR. He's quite wonderful in most anything. He cared about his image and presentation and was one of the few men of that time who truly looked "fit." He tanned obsessively and he was picky about his clothes. He was vain but self aware. (Somewhat like Clooney without the smarm) Cary hung with the big boys as a friend. He and Sinatra were like that. Some slick men back then. Gay men don't have a passionate affair with Sophia Loren or marry Diane Cannon because she's knocked up. Grant's life was episodic with women. People change. It's funny how how many old stars are painted as unemotional and out of touch with themselves, when most of them appear much more real and essentially honest than all the glib self obsessed celebrities of today. And I'm not old. Yet.

Grant looked every day of his age at every stage of his career though. Bitch was just handsome and well dressed. He spent a life compensating for a uniquely tragic childhood. And he worked on knowing himself. I have no doubt that he had a male love affair. That's even better than now. That's still no reason to accuse him of being gay.

Delicious green room for US Ambassador house in London.

[quote]I think that there were many better looking and more classically handsome male movie stars.

I don't think that Gary Cooper is given enough credit for his style and classic looks.

On the other hand....

Gary Cooper was a wet dream of elegance but he lost his peacock perfection by the end of the 30's. He started the 30's like this:

On set, fit, lean and healthy.

[quote]It was pretty tacky of him to Marry Hutton. Did she dare him? Pay him? Did he do as a charity fuck?

They might have had some sort of arrangement. I recall that Barbara Hutton at one time wanted to be an actress. So, why not pal up with the most popular actor at that time? The marriage was beneficial for both of them.

r37 r47 That house has a lot working against it, but unlike in Malibu, erosion is not an issue there. Houses a few miles up the road have little to no sand left, but at their old house the beach is public and the city regularly replenishes the sand.

If they don't know who Cary Grant was, I feel sorry for them.

Re, Cooper. There are rumors about him too. While never calling him gay, his daughter speaks very openly and plainly about the many gay friends that her father had and how much he genuinely liked them. Cooper dated a lot of women but even some of them had their suspicions.

The weirdest factoid about Cary, was that he only had 1 front tooth instead of 2. He had his teeth moved to close the gap. You can see it in certain headshots of him. I had no idea they had dental technology in the 20's where they could move his teeth to cover this up!

Norma's Santa Monica digs......

Hutton and Grant were referred to as "Cash 'n Cary".

Barbara wishing she had Roz's vivacious personality.

"I believe in Scotty Bowers book and documentary, he confirmed that they were lovers. (I think he had a threesome with them, but I don't remember if that's accurate.)"

You must also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, because Scotty Bowers is a total liar. He claims to have sex with EVERYBODY. He said he had threesomes with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor., for God's sake. I don't think Randolph and Cary would have touched the lowly gas station attendant with a ten foot pole.

The story about Grant and Scott at a darkened, empty resteraunt in their later years talking and holding hands is both romantic and terribly sad.

Bowers' book is pure bullshit. Fortunately, there's lots of other evidence r: Carey & Randy. It's a good thing Scott knew how to invest. His career came to low budget westerns in the 50s and more or less dried up after they became less popular.

HE's not lying, R79. What possible motivation would a man in 90's(!!!!!!!!!) have to lie about any of that shit????? HE's not a clout chaser! The guy doesn't need money, He didn't need fame, He was a free spirit who you can tell isn't lying when you watch the documentary. Go fuk yur self!

Why would people lie if not for money or fame R82? You would know better than most. Sometimes they have to lie to cover/embellish other lies they've told. Some people always lie. That's why jesus created the internet. So you could live.

You're a dunce. r83. And Katherine Hepburn was madly in love Spencer Tracy's fat luscious cock!

[Quote] That's still no reason to accuse him of being gay.

STFU.

"HE's not lying, [R79]. What possible motivation would a man in 90's(!!!!!!!!!) have to lie about any of that shit????? HE's not a clout chaser! The guy doesn't need money, He didn't need fame, He was a free spirit who you can tell isn't lying when you watch the documentary. Go fuk yur self!"

Shut up, asshole. He can't prove one single thing he says. You have to take everything he says on faith, which is pretty stupid. He's waited this long to come out with all his bullshit (everybody he claims to have had sex with or pimped for is dead) because dead people can't sue. And of course the old coot's motivation is money and and fame. "Free spirit?" HAHAHA! He's an old fart who wants to get a taste of money and fame before he kicks the bucket. That's all he is.

He did prove the revelations that said, you stoopid fag. Watch the documentary! Ur a dumbass. (kisses) Ur dead to me.

^ I get so turned on when sixty year old gay men try to type like a teen from 2009, R87.

I AM A TEEN FROM 2009, PRETENDING TO BE A ELDER GAY WHO DOESN'T KNOW TO TURN OFF THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON!! UR STILL A DUMBASS!!!! AND KATE HEPBURN IS STILL A LESBO!

Ya know it sure is hard to leave ya, Cary.

The writer of the blog "Homo History" has no doubt about their relationship. A lot of the tidbits and photos have already been posted here, but it's still an interesting read.

OMG, Homo History from R91 is a treasure trove of vintage images. You have to do some blog diving to find them but will worth it.

Orry-Kelly shared an apartment for 2 years with Cary Grant when he first arrived from England as Archie Leach. He was also an unabashedly out gay man 40 years before almost any other public figure. (He was a famous costume designer on Broadway and then in Hollywood, designing costumes for hundreds of films and winning 3 Academy Awards). You could take what he said about Cary Grant to the bank, which is that Cary Grant was essentially homosexual and had affairs with men, including Orry himself. Cary Grant threatened him with lawsuits if he ever wrote about that aspect of his life, which Orry respected, but his memoirs were discovered in 2015 at the home of a relative and he was able to document things pretty explicitly and thoroughly. Scotty Bowers' stories, on the other hand, have to be taken with a generous grain of salt, although super entertaining.

Hottest couple ever

"It was pretty tacky of him to Marry Hutton. Did she dare him? Pay him? Did he do as a charity fuck?"

Grant was the best husband that Hutton ever had. Which isn't saying much, but unlike all the others, Grant wasn't purely after her money. He worked, he wasn't abusive, and when the divorce came, he didn't try to gouge or blackmail her. He walked away with nothing from the marriage... except some Picassos and other artwork that turned out to be incredibly valuable later on.

As for Scotty Bowers... he's an old man, like 90, and living a comfortable old age in the US takes money! I do give him credit for finding a creative way to afford some decent care for his declining years, but that doesn't mean I believe a single word he publishes.

Grant got Picassos!? Not too shabby.

Do you think she enjoyed some pussy destruction from Rubirosa?

There's an old rumor that Rubirosa was the only lover Hutton ever had who could bring her to orgasm. That's worth a few million, right?

She also had a one-night stand with James Dean, when he was young and unknown.

Barbara Hutton was also the mother-in-law of Jill St. John.

It must've been Barbara Hutton's $$$ that attracted these men, because she was an ugly bag of bones.

R44 - No, you’re not the only one.

Impressive of Cary Grant to have amassed quite a fortune.

R63, What a nasty bitter queen Cary Grant was, (7:30) and after ignoring him for such a long time. If I was Orry I would have looked that overgrown oompa loompa dead in eye and said 'you wanna ride in the back, I know it's your favourite position' and I would say it just loud enough for everyone on the set to hear.

R79, " I don't think Randolph and Cary would have touched the lowly gas station attendant with a ten foot pole."

I don't know about Randolph, but Cary Grant was literally a whore, he spread his cheeks for coin. He was England's equivalent to what Americans call 'poor white trash'. The tangerine gold digger bagged himself an heiress, he was a classless coward to the very end. Whatever you may think of Bowers at least he can say he was honest about his sexuality.

I watched the Scotty Bowers documentary, and I did not get the impression that he was lying about his Hollywood clientele, if anything seemed like he was embellishing some of the stories. The documentary does provide some evidence, his connection to the Windsor's came through photographer Cecil Beaton, and Hepburn and Tracy through George Cukor. Throughout the documentary there's photography of Bowers and some of his gas station trade naked and at parties, and a clip of Bowers sucking someone off at an orgy. One of the trade that worked at the gas station and is still living spoke of his relationship with Charles Laughton. Bowers doesn't have a reason to lie, and if it's a money grab well that's not likely either as B list actor Beach Anderson and lover of Bowers had left him 300,000 pounds plus two houses, one he sold for 600,000 So no he didn't need the money. However, if you're going to say, well he just did it for the fame, what fame?? He's a 96 year old man living as a hoarder and is still in deep denial of ever being molested as a child, hardly something you would want to brag about to the world.

Is Rochester still alive? He knows! Or, maybe he passed the stories down to his family. But, he certainly knows.

Rock Hudson's maid knew EVERYTHING!

R105 I agree. I read the book and saw the documentary. I totally related to him and his feelings for the man who sexually abused him. I struggled with my feelings about it too as I grew up. I didn't think I was abused until I went into therapy. I thought I was having consensual sex! When I was 12! What I do know, is my early sexually experience made me hypersexual as a kid and that behavior continued as a teen, as it did him, too. Its textbook "effects of being sexualized as a child". I'm not surprised he ended up an escort and hustler. I fantasized about being a porn actor.

What I didn't buy and called bullshit on, was his insistance that he didn't earn a single penny or pocket anything at all for his services.! That was a hoot. He's just afraid of being arrested still, at his age.

Oh shut up, Scotty. Nobody believes you.

[quote]I thought I was having consensual sex! When I was 12! What I do know, is my early sexually experience made me hypersexual as a kid and that behavior continued as a teen, as it did him, too. Its textbook "effects of being sexualized as a child". I'm not surprised he ended up an escort and hustler. I fantasized about being a porn actor.

Lord, have mercy... Blaming others because you are/were a slut. YOU. ARE/WERE. A. SLUT. HONEY! Wear it with honor!

"People who knew them early in their careers said Grant and Scott lived openly gay lives behind closed doors, but, as was the case with Rock Hudson, arranged marriages were the order of the day. Studios had to protect their financial properties and interests. The name "Bachelor Hall" and the reported parade of women through there were orchestrated by the studios, who wanted to keep their valuable actors away from any scandal.

Famed homosexual film director George Cukor said this about the homosexual relationship between the two: “Oh, Cary won't talk about it. At most, he'll say they did some wonderful pictures together. But Randolph will admit it – to a friend.” Fashion critic Richard Blackwell claimed he had affairs with both Grant and Scott; before meeting Scott, Grant had lived with gay Hollywood costume designer John Orry-Kelly.

An oft-repeated swipe was: “Archie Leach was gay, but Cary Grant was straight.” Cary Grant later said that ultimately, he BECAME Cary Grant, the guy up on the screen, because that’s what everyone wanted him to be.

R109. You're not kidding! I was prancing around the neighbor, ringing doorbells, making appointments to "play doctor!" I was a true southern trollop!!!

[quote] However, if you're going to say, well he just did it for the fame, what fame??

I kinda agree. I mean, most of the names in here are unknown to anyone under 35 or 40. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but to be honest, it's where our news/fame cycle is these days. Focused on the living and fools like the Kuntrashians.

Y'all realise there's not just one level of fame? Hedy Lamarr used to ride the bus and tell strangers how she used to be in movies.

I'm totally convinced now that they were lovers. I'm speaking only for myself, but I never see such genuine joy and happiness in Cary Grant's eyes and face again until I see the images of him with his daughter.

If they made the biopic, Randolph Scott was a role meant for Armie Hammer. Striking resemblance.

That said, they should have made this movie 15 years ago with Aaron Eckhart as Scott and George Clooney as Grant.

Scott was gorgeous, is there sizemeat info? Miss Grant never did anything for us/ They both married stinkfish. LESBIANISM MOST FOUL!!!!!

Gore Vidal who was there says Scotty Bowers is telling the truth.

Now go ahead and attack Vidal who is clearly lying and just out for fame and money.

Cary Grant was gay but tried really hard not to be. That's where the LSD came in. It was therapy.

Randy Scott was gay but more comfortable with it. He still tried to look straight. It was a very different time.

Dirk Bogarde and Anthony Forwood were the British equivalent.

Cary Grant was a gay man. He was never known to be involved with a woman until his first quickie marriage to Virginia Cherrill, when he was in his 30s.

Cary Grant didn't lisp and talk in high voice and although he was well groomed, he wasn't an overdone kind of man with his hand gestures and expressions. He might have had to put out to men when he was young. Naturally he'd want to forget that. That doesn't make him a gay.

r120 hopefully you're just trying to be funny.

Both men are incredibly gorgeous.The had rare beauty, success, and love. I like just thinking about their happiness together in those beautiful homes.

Fame was more important to them than happiness. And money was most important to Cary Grant. The video at R114 is quite astonishing. They certainly were beautiful men.

"I watched the Scotty Bowers documentary, and I did not get the impression that he was lying about his Hollywood clientele, if anything seemed like he was embellishing some of the stories. The documentary does provide some evidence, his connection to the Windsor's came through photographer Cecil Beaton, and Hepburn and Tracy through George Cukor. "

He has no proof to back up any of his claims. You just have to BELIEVE him, and I don't. There's a good biography of Spencer Tracy by James Curtis; it debunks Bower's claims of his chummy relationship with Tracy and Hepburn very well. He states of Bowers as being "full of glib stories and revelations, all cheerfully unverifiable." He goes on to debunk the claims of others like Darwin Porter and William J. Mann, stating that their lurid biographies are "all part of a curious subgenre pandering to an audience that apparently wants to be told that practically everyone in Old Hollywood was secretly gay."

As for Scotty Bowers, he's twenty-five pounds of bullshit in a ten pound bag. Threesomes with the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, or "Eddie and Wally", as he calls them? How could anyone in their right mind believe that? Actually, Wallis Simpson DID have a rather sordid relationship with a gay man but it wasn't with Scotty Bowers. It was with Jimmy Donahue, Barbara Hutton's wild cousin. No WAY would Wallis Simpson have wanted anything to do with anyone as low class as a gas station attendant. And as for him procuring lesbian sex for Katherine Hepburn at least 150 times...oh my God. Katherine Hepburn wouldn't have thought Scotty Bowers good enough to spit on, much less have him pimping for her.

[Quote] lurid biographies are "all part of a curious subgenre pandering to an audience that apparently wants to be told that practically everyone in Old Hollywood was secretly gay."

I have to laugh at that statement in relation to Hepburn and Tracy.

POTUS Honest Abe Lincoln loved up a man. Why not those Hollywood swells? Kenneth Anger told tall tales. I dunno but Scotty seems within the believable range.

I don't know much about Katherine Hepburn. But Spencer Tracy was NOT gay. In fact, he was a lady's man. He stayed married to his wife until death did them part but had affairs with stars like Loretta Young and Ingrid Bergman. Although he was a plain man women were very attracted to him, which amazed even him. Maybe it was because of his unassuming personality and great talent. At any rate he was one of the most UNgay Hollywood stars of his era.

" I dunno but Scotty seems within the believable range."

What makes you say that? He seems to me to have no credibility at all. He strikes me as someone who tells outrageous lies just to see how much he can get away with.

[Quote] I don't know much about Katherine Hepburn. But Spencer Tracy was NOT gay. In fact, he was a lady's man. He stayed married to his wife until death did them part but had affairs with stars like Loretta Young and Ingrid Bergman. Although he was a plain man women were very attracted to him, which amazed even him. Maybe it was because of his unassuming personality and great talent. At any rate he was one of the most UNgay Hollywood stars of his era.

You're not gay, are you.

I just envision them gazing into each other's eyes and saying "You're prettier, no, you're prettier" back and forth to each other.

Excellent post R124. Thank you.

[Quote] No WAY would Wallis Simpson have wanted anything to do with anyone as low class as a gas station attendant.

The idea that the high never mix with the low(ly). You only know about life from magazines, don't you?

R127 BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Spencer Tracy stayed married to his beard because she was catholic!!! Divorce was forbidden and he had a respect for that. And he didn't even live with her!!!! He didn't live with Katherine either! They lived next door to each other!

I don't know from the pictures which one is which but I would bet my last dollar on them being a couple. Twelve years! Come on!

"The idea that the high never mix with the low(ly). You only know about life from magazines, don't you?"

I know Wallis Simpson never would "never mix with the low (ly)." She would never stoop so low as to screw around with a gas station attendant.

I think Katherine Hepburn was gay or nonsexual. After reading her autobiography my feeling was that she wanted people to believe she and Spencer Tracy had an affair but I think they were really just close friends. According to her he was a raging alcoholic. Hepburn was in love with no one but herself.

Here's an article again quoting Scotty Bowers on the subject. He claimed both Tracy and Hepburn were gay.

Dreamy

" I dunno but Scotty seems within the believable range. "

Oh, bull. It is simply not humanly possible that a good-looking lesbian like Katherine Hepburn couldn't find her own pussy, or arrange for some through her known lesbian pals or a trustworthy Madam, but would go through some nobody of a gas station attendant.

Bowers is a liar, and anyone who says the believe him must be one of Scotty Bowers' sock accounts.

Those two incorrigible snobs the Duke and Duchess of Windsor even giving Scotty Bowers the time of day is laughable.

....

Scott was 52 and Grant was 36. I thought they were much closer in age.

Scott was born in 1898 and Grant in 1904, it was only a 6-year age difference.

Arthur Laurents, who made no bones about being gay in Hollywood, wrote in his memoirs that Cary Grant threw pebbles at his window one night in the late 1940s. But Laurents was already involved with Farley Granger at that point.

R143, that about what I thought it was. So the Census data would be right for Grant but 10 years off for Scott.

[quote]Arthur Laurents, who made no bones about being gay in Hollywood, wrote in his memoirs that Cary Grant threw pebbles at his window one night in the late 1940s.

Ha! More lies from Laurents (nee Levine). As IF a stunner like Cary Grant would give a viper-like meeskite like Laurents the time of day! It is to LAUGH!

[quote]stating that their lurid biographies are "all part of a curious subgenre pandering to an audience that apparently wants to be told that practically everyone in Old Hollywood was secretly gay."

I've never read a better definition of Dataloungers.

r139 YOU DUMB FUCK, HE DIDN'T WORK AT THE GAS STATION FOR YEARS AND YEARS!!! HE WAS AT THE GAS STATION WHEN HE FIRST ARRIVED IN LA!!!!! AFTER THAT HE DID BUSINESS OUT OF HIS HOME!!!!!!!!! GET OVER IT! HEPBURN WAS A LESBO! SPENCER LIKED DICK!!! ACCEPT IT!!!!!!!

Wallis Simpson was down with any rough trade kinky enough to accept her micro penis masquerading as a "clit".

Who's the woman?

R148, shut the fuck up and stop screaming, you hysterical twat. Spencer Tracy wasn't gay. Scotty Bowers is a liar. You're insane and retarded. The end.

R124, Two opinionated quotes from an author is evidence of debunking Bowers claims?? LOL Come on you have to do better than that. You've chosen to BELIEVE James Curtis, and based on those two statements of his I don't. If you'd had watched the documentary you would see Bowers has actually provided some degree of evidence, and being that he had people like Gore Vidal, John Schlesinger, Dominick Dunne who have vouched for him and the clear proof that he had connections to Hollywood elites through Cecil Beaton, Beach Anderson... so you're going to write all these people off as liars as well are you? Lol

Also, I said I believe he EMBELLISHED some of his stories given that he professed not to have written any of these experiences or the names of the people down when it occurred, no notebook or black book or anything. So how he has the capacity to recollect such detailed accounts from memory alone at his age is what I find questionable, other than that I don't believe he is making all this up just for money and fame. That's a cheap accusation and a pretty lazy attempt to write someone off.

Well doesn’t the census record kinda prove this then? What more do people want, other than all the evidence out there. Use your intuition people - it’s so obvious.

"Two opinionated quotes from an author is evidence of debunking Bowers claims?? LOL Come on you have to do better than that. You've chosen to BELIEVE James Curtis, and based on those two statements of his I don't."

There was a lot more than "two opinionated quotes", you dumb cluck. LOL! And I don't "chose to BELIEVE" him, you silly twat. He provides a lot of documentation to verify his claims, whereas Bowers does not. LOL! As for the people who "vouched" for Bowers...well, none of them ever said "everything he says is true." Of course they can't say that. Because Bowers can't prove a thing he says.

You're just one of those poor people who will believe anything. LOL!

There's a blog called the Daily Mirror that featured a lengthy sequence called "Full Service: Fun with Fact Checking." There are a slew of sections to it, but here's an excerpt from it:

I flipped through the photos and except for a couple of childhood snapshots, one portrait from World War II and a current picture, all the rest are file photos “from the Neal Peters Collection.” I would sort of expect that someone who had nearly uncountable trysts with the stars might have gotten at least one inscribed picture. You know, “Oh you kid! –Franklin Pangborn” or something like that.

For that matter, there’s no picture of the gas station where Bowers supposedly worked. Instead we get some unidentified Richfield station with the caption: “Sadly, I don’t have a photo of the Hollywood Boulevard gas station, but it looked much like this one.”

And on Page IX, we find this little bon mot: “A few decades ago, my good buddy Tennessee Williams began writing his own account of my life but before it saw the light of day I told him to destroy it.”

Oh really?

Alas, “Full Service” isn’t indexed, but Amazon’s “look inside” feature shows that an account of Williams’ purported biography of Bowers appears on Page 251-253. Because there’s no date to peg the incident, let’s put it aside for the moment and do a little digging – in the finding aid for Tennessee Williams’ papers at Columbia University – just to see if maybe there’s a little tidbit about his “good buddy.” I suppose you would be surprised if I said there’s not a word about Bowers. Why look at this! Williams saved his address books and datebooks. Too bad they’re at Columbia, it might be fun to dig.

And look at this: A catalog of 11 linear feet of Williams’ works. Don’t see anything about a Bowers biography, though.

Gosh, the first paragraph and we’re already in trouble.

R154, Calm down, honey lol Why so angry and deranged??

You claim it's all written in the book yet you haven't provided that evidence instead you give us two biased bum quotes.

You're full of shite and you know it.

"You're full of shite and you know it."

Learn to spell, sweetie. And I'm perfectly calm. You're the one with your frilly pink bloomers in a twist. Here's a couple of suggestions for you. First, learn to read. Second, check out the author's note at the end of John Curtis's biography of Spencer Tracy. It's a chapter entitled "The Biographies of Katharine Hepburn." It clears up a lot of bullshit, including that of Scotty Bowers. Do try and enlighten yourself, won't you? The truth will set you free.

Shite is the British version of shit. It's extremely common.

Here's are my questions;

-Why is it sooo important to many of you to prove that they were gay or not?

-If they were gay, does that somehow validate you?

-If they were not, does that confirm the sense of self loathing that you have for yourself?

Why not just look at the images and let them be whatever you want them to be?

Scotty Bowers may have embellished, forgotten, etc but there aren't many coming forth to dispute and/or deny his claims. There have been no lawsuits to my knowledge.

"Scotty Bowers may have embellished, forgotten, etc but there aren't many coming forth to dispute and/or deny his claims. There have been no lawsuits to my knowledge."

There's a very good explanation for that. Everyone he says he pimped for or had sex with is dead. Dead people can't bring forth lawsuits.

[Quote] If they were not, does that confirm the sense of self loathing that you have for yourself?

You overplayed your hand with that one.

I don't think so, R161. I meant what I wrote.

There are gays who will be in the grave come next week but who never lived their lives fully because they were embarrassed, guilt-ridden, shameful, and whatever else, because of their sexuality. They didn't feel deserving and/or entitled to live their lives. And, so they didn't. Imagine them realizing (as their eyes are about to close for their final time) that there were many who did try to be who they are--to be happy. Who said it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

Scott only outlived Grant by 3 months. I don't think that's a coincidence.

That 1940 census at R141 showing Scott as head of household and Grant as "partner" is interesting. There are several other head+partner listings like that on the preceding and following pages, all people of the same sex and close in age. It could mean they’re business partners, but not all the couples listed have the same occupation. Or maybe they’re co-owners, but then why is only one person listed as head of household?

I've only ever seen one person listed as Head of Household in a census.

R159, for me, it would be like a dream come true...to find same-sex LOVE like they had.

Carole Lombard, the pair's mutual friend, once quipped, “Their relationship is perfect. Randy pays the bills, and Cary mails them.

R159, DL is a celeb gossip board. We talk about things that interest us, and argue a lot. You want us to talk about the price of lube in Peoria instead?

R75 You'll need some pictures to back that assertion.

This thread is full of crazy assertions.

From the 1940 census instructions:

[quote]447. Column 8. Relationship of This Person to the Head of the Household.-For the head of the household, that is, the person who is regarded as the head by the members of the house, whether husband or father, wife, widow, or unmarried person of either sex, write the word "Head" in this column. For other members of the household write wife, son, daughter, father, mother, grandson, daughter-in-law, aunt, nephew, lodger, boarder, servant, hired hand, etc., according to the particular relationship that the person bears to the head of the household.

[quote]451. If two or more persons who are not related by blood or marriage share a common dwelling unit as partners, write head for one and partner for the other or others.

So this would cover same-sex couples, or any sort of ménage, among other things I guess.

Here ya go, R168

Peoria

Supercenter #3460

8915 N Allen Rd, Peoria, IL 61615

Wet Platinum Pure Concentrated Serum Silicone Lubricant - 3.1 oz/$9.97

What is interesting about the 'partner' listing on the '40 census, is that Scott is listed as the Head and Grant the partner. Yet it was generally referred to as Grant's house, and it was to that house Grant lived with Barbara Hutton (though she complained that Scott always seemed to be around anyway).

I've just learned that they owned two houses together.

[quote]If two or more persons who are not related by blood or marriage share a common dwelling unit as partners, write head for one and partner for the other or others.

Imagine their thrill filling out a simple census form?

So, where were Cesar Romero and Danny Kaye at while all of this sinfulness was being carried on?

These two knew each other for 40 years.

I occasionally try to analyse Archie Leach's style (such as it is). Sometimes he does the American goofball style of comedy and sometimes he does the clipped Noel Coward style.

r171 = Aaron Schock

^^^ That should be Cockgobbler Aaron Schock.

My grandmother worked in fashion from WWII on. She said there was a time when same sex couples were open and they were called, simply, friends. This was among sophisticated and also bohemian people. Then it was more frought, ironically as gay identity and gay rights became a thing. To finally arrive at more open again. But she also told me about a great aunt who was just a working class gal who left her catholic husband for 10 years to live with her lady friend, then went back to her husband, and again it seems to have been taken in stride because it wasn't something people dug into for the details, perhaps, back then. Maybe like French men and their mistresses, or North African men and their male lovers.

"What is interesting about the 'partner' listing on the '40 census, is that Scott is listed as the Head and Grant the partner."

I suspect that Scott was listed as head of household and Grant was listed as "partner", because Scott or Scott's secretary was the one who filled out the census form, and not Grant.

Duh. This idea that there was such a thing as "domestic partner" or "same sex partner" in old census forms is ludicrous. It obviously meant business partner or partner in ownership or a fucking roomate.

Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder and illegal.

The ancient Greeks (and Romans also?) had no word for homosexuality. It was regarded as normal - it still is in reality - that a man enjoyed another man for sexual pleasure and a fish mainly for reproductia.

[quote]I suspect that Scott was listed as head of household and Grant was listed as "partner", because Scott or Scott's secretary was the one who filled out the census form, and not Grant.

There were no individual census forms in 1940. Census "enumerators" went door to door, and recorded the information directly from the occupants onto schedules like the one below. The enumerator determined who was considered head of household, and the relationship of the other people in the household to the head. "Partner" seems to be a catch-all term for anyone who didn’t fit into the standard wife, son, daughter, father, mother, grandson, daughter-in-law, aunt, nephew, lodger, boarder, servant, hired hand, etc., categories. I think it’s safe to assume that the census takers knew what they were doing when they called a same-sex person "partner."

R183 I think "partner" implied, they "co-owned" the home. But in 1940 there was no association between gay relationships and the word "partner" That emerged in 70's/80's when someone coined the term "domestic life partner" and it caught on.

So... does this mean that Grant's wife, Betsy Drake, was possibly a lesbian? They were married for 12 years, no children, and she never married again after their divorce.

[quote]But in 1940 there was no association between gay relationships and the word "partner"

How do you know that?

R186 First and foremost, Homosexuality was illegal in the 30's and 40's, so if you're gay you don't tell a government employee (census worker) that you're in a relationship with man. That would be stoopid!

Second, they were famous.

Third, in Los Angeles, at this time, the corrupt Police force would raid bars and parties and arrest gay men. Then extort the prominent ones to keep the arrest out of the papers. (They used to publish the names of gay men who were arrested.) It was bad.

R186 Back then, There was bar in Hollywood where gay men used to meet up. It was owned by the Chief of police, and the men didn't know. When someone "notable" came in, the bartender would call the Police Commisioner and he would order the bar to be raided. Then he would extort the individual or the Movie Studio to keep the arrest out of the papers. The LAPD was like the Mafia, back then.

r185 "Betsy" is about least imaginable lesbian name.

Cary Grant had a passionate affair with Sophie Loren, so no he wasn't gay, maybe just another mentally disturbed bisexual.

Did you actually watch them having sex to be sure of your claim, r190?

Or did you form your opinia from press agent releases/ posed photos/stories, etc?

R191 Loren stated this herself, and from what she described he clearly wanted to be with her. Why would she lie?

R192 Ummmm, oh i don't know--- because it raises her visibility in a foreign market and makes her look more like a MOVIE STAR?????? It falls under the old adage "any publicity is good publicity"!

Yes- Grants roommate in NYC before they both moved to LA was a flamboyant gay man (and Oscar winning designer) who Grant distanced himself from in Hollywood due to the rumors but remained close to behind the scenes- they were what we used to call “sister”. Grant and Scott moved apart due to studio pressure after the Chicago RC group issued those morality codes. They remained lovers. How serious his relationships were with women were only he knows. Bisexual?

But, here's my frustration about your question, R191; Why do gay men feel that gay men cannot have sex with a woman? A lesbian that was married and had children is not called bisexual. They are (and consider themselves as) lesbian. Elizabeth Smarts' father just came out as gay. He did not say that he was bisexual. He said that he was gay.

I got called a liar for posting this once, but many years ago I read an interview with George Burns where he talked about he and Gracie living with Grant in London when Grant was still Archie Leach. He complained about Grant and his tricks keeping them up until all hours. I haven't been able to find that interview since, but I did fine a comment from Burns.

" Then he (Burns) said: “And how can you deal with Cary’s homosexuality?” Grant and Burns were friends for 60 years.

R193 That's a bum excuse. If she wanted to raise the visibility of her stardom she would have married Grant and moved to America with him like he wanted her to but she didn't, she stayed with her fiancé, some Italian producer, who was more known for being the husband of Sophia Loren than any of the films he had produced.

Cary Grant was hardly going to devote himself to Loren's career...

[quote]she stayed with her fiancé, some Italian producer, who was more known for being the husband of Sophia Loren than any of the films he had produced.

A selection of films produced by of Carlo Ponti:

La Strada

Two Women

Boccaccio '70

Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow

Marriage Italian Style

Doctor Zhivago

Blow-up

Zabriskie Point

Have you heard of any of these films?

Ponti made a very popular knit pant, still sold all over the world. Grant did want to marry Sophia Loren, that is well known. Who knows the motive, but I think it involved motorboating? Gays love beautiful natural breasts. This is a fact that has obvious nurture over nature arguments.

Cary Grant is not a movie star that makes me hard. He's handsome but not sexy. I'd like to see him make out with a dude and judge for myself.

Carlo Ponti: = HUGE producer. People just shart out whatever they wish. Shamelessly.

Cary Grant was bi. I believe he had an affair with Loren. She was gorgeous and voluptuous. I don't think many guys would have passed up an opportunity to have sex with her, unless they were gay. But Grant swung both ways, so I totally believe he and Loren got it on.

HELLOOOOOO!!!!! That was PR, him wanting to marry Sofia! It was fake! It was made up! It wasn't true! A highly paid Studio Publicist concocted the story as way to promote a movie! This was very common back then! The dumb public wanted to believe that the two stars of a romantic movie were really in love!

Jesus you people are exhausting

He licked Loren's luscious labia on the Liguria! He was bi bi bi!

R203 Do you actually have any evidence that this was a PR stunt?

r205 EVERYTHING IS A PR STUNT IN HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! AND IT HAS BEEN SINCE THE 30'S! HOLLYWOOD PUBLICISTS INVENTED THAT SHIT!!!! EVEN THE ACADEMY AWARDS ARE A PR STUNT TO SELL MORE TICKETS.

(breathe)

Everything is phony in Hollywood. Everything. I work there. I'm in the middle of it. I even worked at PR firm. Trust me. It's all about timing. If something scandalous happens, it coincides with a film release, an album drop, a hit tv show premiere. You know its fake news if something is being released.

I doubt the affair with Loren was entirely concocted, it ended with Grant being thrown over in favor of an ugly little Italian and pubic humiliation. That's not something his PR people would have approved.

But I can certainly see why Loren did it, if she'd married Grant it would have meant Going Hollywood and being Mrs. Cary Grant instead of Sophia Loren, and I suppose it's just as well that she didn't. By marrying Ponti she cemented her place at the top of the Italian film industry and in the top of Italian society; in choosing Ponti over Grant she chose Italy over Hollywood in addition to the personal issues. Ponti let her be a star in her own right, gave her children, and didn't seem to mind when she had a bit of fun, and she was always a better actress in Italian films than American ones. Marrying Ponti was a good career move, and she was probably happier with the little troll than any of Grant's wives were with him.

R207 You just proved my point whether you are willing to see it or not.

R206 is a nutjob who believes that Scotty Bowers tells the truth. Some men are bisexual. Deal with it.

Bowers does tell the truth! Every word! Watch the documentary. Proof everywhere.

Just "got" to DL in the past year... and see there is some received orthodoxy about men are either all gay, or all straight... and the grey area is pathological, dangers to "gay rights".... All contradictory to Kinsey's continuum etc. I do think it's possible for a "gay man" to have sex with a woman, even richly enjoy it. I think straight me can "stray" into a weekend on "our team." I think the zeitgeist moves peoples understanding of all this.

I think Grant was a romantic partner of Scott... evidence is too strong. I think it's possible he enjoyed his last marriage, in all the expected ways,

R211 Don't post when you're drunk! Come back in the AM after a cup of coffee. Myeah. Thanks anyway.

The way Dyan Cannon tells it, Grant believed their marriage could be improved by regularly schedule LSD sessions...

R212 Sober for 25 years... (see that abhorrent AA thread). But this is like a cute-meet, isn't it honey. Your place then?

Dyan Cannon was pregnant when she and Grant married. He knocked her up. I have no doubt he performed sexually with all of his wives. Of course men who come out as gay can have enjoyable sex with women. Many do it for decades. Some of us just when we're young and starting out our sexual lives. Goes both ways or anyways. Most people are not all the way one way or the other. And it's not defined solely by sexual attraction. But that's not acceptable to the superqueers of Datalounge.

r214 Weed doesn't mean you're sober! Reread your post! You're drunk, high, or retarded!

R215 Alas, lost the privilege... typos in haste not a sign of inebriation, so I must be retarded. Or as I prefer to say, "special." Now, let's get back to Cary and Randy.

Most homosexuals are married to fish. Deal with it.

There used to be many closeted gay men who married and had children before coming out, if they ever did come out.

Not desirable by any means, but it shows gay men can sire children when they feel they must.

R211 Such bunkum. If a gay man can have sex with a woman and find it pleasurably enjoyable then he has nothing to worry about because he's not gay. And no straight man strays to dick, only closet cases do that. Not sure why you're bringing Alfred Kinsey into this, he didn't even believe that anyone was capable of being strictly homosexual or heterosexual, he believed everyone was born with "equal attraction" (bisexuality) and became homosexual/heterosexual through outer influences. The Kinsey scale is outdated and, funnily enough denies Kinsey's own beliefs on "equal attraction" as it forces everyone into either a variation of homosexual or variation of heterosexual categorization.

R215 Where are all these men that are having enjoyable sex with women for decades? Only to then ruin sexy time by coming out as gay? Do they live in your imagination?

Ironically, Kinsey studied Scotty Bowers and his fluid sexuality! It's in the documentary! (Just bringing things full circle)

[Quote] find it pleasurably enjoyable then he has nothing to worry about because he's not gay.

There's more to sexuality than "dick in warm hole feels good."

R222 That's right. Bowers said he was the only one who filled Kinsey's questionnaire with yes or a tick to everything. He said he had sex with men, women animals... you name it he's done it. I'm not sure if he was joking or being serious but that's just plain disgusting.

R207, I believe Sophia Loren was married to Carlo Ponti when she worked with Grant. She has been with Ponti pretty much her entire adult life.

I think Loren was involved with Ponti or engaged to him when she made the film with Grant and rumors of a romance blossomed, and the whole world was astonished when she actually went ahead and married the little troll.

Don't any of you read? Sophia included Cary's love letters to her in her book story. She was about to marry Ponti and Cary was married himself. He begged her to be with him for all eternity. They fell in love before the Houseboat movie. He was crazy madly, deeply and sexually in love with Sophia Loren.

Randolph Scott was an aging, throat patting, prissy man - anyone can see that. Cary craved attention $ comfort when he started out. He spent the rest of his life trying to come to terms with his feelings about his mother and young homosexual experiences. There was no gay to pray away.

Sophia Loren was with Carlo Ponti while working with Cary Grant. They weren't married because Ponti was already married to someone else and Italy didn't allow Catholics to divorce at that time. According to Loren, her "affair" with Grant was unconsummated, although she said he did ask her to marry him. It's interesting that Grant was married several times, but didn't have his first and only child until age 62. I think he was primarily gay but could perform enough with women to be marginally bisexual. Regarding Kinsey, someone above misstated his findings. Kinsey established that there are some people who are exclusively homosexual and some who are exclusively heterosexual (Kinsey 6, Kinsey 0). I think numerically he discovered that the vast majority of people are 0,1 (exclusively heterosexual with the 1s having had one or two homosexual acts), that a larger group than expected (10% or so) was 6,5 (exclusively homosexual with the 5s having had one or two heterosexual acts) - and the rest of the categories are much smaller by the numbers. I think that according to his scale, Cary Grant would have been either a 5 or a 4 - predominantly homosexual but with occasional heterosexual activities. I think the evidence that we know of is pretty solid, and there might be even more.

[quote]According to Loren, her "affair" with Grant was unconsummated, although she said he did ask her to marry him.

BINGO! Now, have a seat self-loathing gay man.

If Grant was married at the time he was supposedly involved with Loren, then the whole thing was NOT dreamed up by publicists. Public adultery was considered to be career suicide at the time, and something to be covered up.

Would that it were still so.

But I'd expect Loren to exaggerate things at least a little in her autobiography. For one that's the sort of story that would make a book sell, since huge numbers of people want to know what it's like to have an affair with Cary Grant. And when a person is older and looking back on their life, they do want to boast about the primo tail they got in their prime.

R206 is a yammering troll. Bowers does tell the truth! Every word! Watch the documentary. Proof everywhere." What an insane troll.

Loren published Cary Grant's actual love letters R230. Even in old biographies of them both, the affair is mentioned. Although in Cary's Biography channel biography both Deborah Kerr and Leslie Caron seem to suggest that Cary was less than passionate. They choose their words carefully. He was "very good looking but only interested in classy female co stars" as Caron put it.

Who was Caron talking about in relation to Grant? Herself?

Yes, herself R233. Caron mentioned that he always wanted her to look nice, a certain way. And Kerr said the most memorable thing about Cary was that "he was so good looking." Which seems like kind of faint praise for her costar in one of the great sappy romances of all time.

My inference is that Sophia Loren must have turned him the fuck on!

Peter Sellers was besotted with Sophia Loren. He would talk about their great love affair...but it never happened! It was all in his overactive imagination. She always denied an affair with him and I believe her. The strange looking, very disturbed Sellers was definitely NOT her type.

Carlo Ponti was small and not handsome but he wasn't a troll. I've fucked small smart mediterranean men - can be very sexy. Bravado, humour, charm, success. Maybe even good cock!

"Caron mentioned that he always wanted her to look nice, a certain way. "

To be fair, lots of straight men want their ladies to look a certain way.

A Publicist probably hired a screenwriter to write those letters to her! Trust me. And Sophia was 17 when she hooked up with Ponti. He was a Svengali who turned her into the sex symbol she became. He probably manipulated and concocted the "romance" between Cary and Sophia. He was no dummy. He was slick and savvy and knew the PR game, too.

Of course R237. I think Cary Grant was bisexual. Not a closet case. He lived openly with a man who supported him until they couldn't get away with it any more. Seems like a swell time. Next he married a woman who could offer him another type of security. After that - he was exploring himself in his relationships. Betsy Drake was probably the deepest love of his life. Another rare spirit, not a beauty to look at. Life is episodic if you're lucky. Grant was kind of loopy. He was the Shirley MaClaine of his time. He was greedy and unloving, but open minded and always looking for deeper meaning in life. When he wanted to finally be a father, he became one. He did it when he was ready to retire from films. He was also best friends with Sinatra - so in no way was Grant a typical fag. Sinatra was a man who's personal growth and talent wasn't over at 40 years old either.

The reason I mentioned the Leslie Caron and Deborah Kerr statements is the curious truth they spoke. Cary Grant, once he became a movie star only co starred with "ladies." Myrna Loy, Hepburn - both of them, Kerr, Caron, Dina Merrill, Ingrid Bergman, Grace Kelly, Doris Day, Joan Fontaine, Irene Dunne.

But he fell for more voluptuous and earthy women like Sophia Loren and Dyan Cannon. In her divorce papers, Cannon said that he was insanely jealous - that Grant spanked her and said he wanted to break her like a pony. Interesting dude. Not too sexy. But exploring his sexuality and himself. People didn't used to stop thinking or growing or becoming something more at 25 or 30 years old. The idea of themselves was not set forever. Maybe that's the real secret about Cary Grant? His screen image was one thing - but the man was different. He was before his time AND behind ours.

R223 yeah, and gay men aren't attracted to the female body, vagina, breast and the rest.

I have no idea why Cary Grant married Barbara Hutton. The only explanation is that he was attracted to her money. She wasn't good looking and was not interesting or likable. She was just an incredibly spoiled, filthy rich woman who squandered her fortune and lead a pathetically aimless, meaningless life. Her lifestyle and friends were said to disgust Grant. He knew the value of money from not having any in his earlier years and to see her waste money like she tended to do really irritated him. Her friends were unbearable; rich bore or leeches. Her money never brought her anything appropriating happiness. In her later years she was confined to bed, unable to even tend to her toilet needs. Somebody else would have to wipe her behind. One of her caregivers said that seemed to be the highlight of her day: getting her behind wiped. And someone who knew her said that a picture of her in her later years should be erected in every home where the inhabitants envy the rich. Yes, Barbara Hutton was the epitome of the "poor little rich girl."

^He married her because he was an opportunist. I don't understand the debate here. Cary Grant was gay and an opportunist. He wasn't/isn't the first and he definitely isn't the last. Those of you who want to think of him as bisexual? Well, if it works for you, then God bless. For me, it's a pointless debate.

My question is more about what type of true happiness did he have in his life. From what I can see is that besides loving his money, he loved Randolph and his daughter. Other than that... he lived with the choices that he made for himself.

Dyan Cannon was no beauty either. She looked like a frog. Talented, though. She gave a much better "Neely" in THE LOVE MACHINE than Patty Duke did previously.

Dyan Cannon's character in The Love Machine was a rich, elegant socialite based on Babe Paley. The author of TLM, the inimitable Jacqueline Susann, didn't want Cannon cast in the role because she didn't think Cannon was "classy" enough.

"Cary Grant was gay and an opportunist"

As I said above, Grant was the least opportunistic of Hutton's husbands. Unlike all the others he didn't take any money from her during the divorce, just went back to being a movie star. Although he did keep all the man's jewelry she'd bought him, and they did split the artwork they bought during the marriage... which left him with some Picassos and other valuable works. If he married her out of opportunism, then either exposure to her vapid lifestyle left him with a temporary disdain for riches, or he was a best judge of art of his era.

Well, either way, he ended up a wealthy old penny-pincher who refused to spend a dime on maintaining his house and garden. The city of Beverly Hills eventually sent gardeners to fix up his garden at the public expense because they were so tired of hearing his neighbors complain that he was dragging down their property values, which thrilled Grant. He didn't have to spend a dime on gardeners after all.

It depends upon how you define opportunist, R245. Hutton, was reportedly one of the richest women in the USA at the time. I'm sure that only enhance Grant's reputation. It sure didn't hurt it!

Didn't Cary's daughter say he found the stories about him being gay amusing? If he spent all that time and effort attempting to conceal his homosexuality would he not have been annoyed or even angered by the fact that the truth came out anyway?

Didn't she also say that she didn't like it when he got together with his friends because the acted a bunch of big girls?

A nurse who took care of Randolph in his last days at his home, posted in DL that he was surrounded by pics of Cary.

The comments were posted in one of the previous threads about Cary and Randy.

Watching Grace and Frankie tonight and Martin Sheen walks into a leather bar... He'd just left a young dance club because he felt out of place, then he felt out of place at this leather bar. Then he noticed a wall of photos of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott at the beach. He, the bartender and another patron discussed them. It was cute.

Cary Granite really is one of the all time handsomest movie stars. I love his swarthiness., fine suits and gymnastic abilities too.

Yes, I swoon over Cary Granite

r251 = Ann-Margrock.

[quote] Martin Sheen walks into a leather bar...

This sounds like the beginning of a joke ...

R253---It's a 50-50 chance I am either Ann-Margrock OR Stony Curtis!

Cary LOVED Elvis

Cary Grant/Randolph Scott Home - Los Angeles

The bachelor pad of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott is located on West Live Oak Drive in Los Angeles, California. The two stars lived here during the early 1930's. Their close friendship led to speculations, which exist to the present day, that the pair were gay. Whatever the case, the two stars did share this four-bedroom home in Los Feliz from around 1932 to 1934. At that time Grant was ordered by Paramount executives to marry, in order to quell the talk around town about his sexuality. Although Grant and Scott would remain close friends throughout their lives, upon marrying Virginia Cherrill in 1934, Scott moved out of the house.

They would live together for a total of 11 years, longer than most Hollywood marriages.

2177 W Live Oak Dr, Los Angeles, CA 90068

5 beds 4 baths 6,727 sq ft 0.24 acres lot

Domestic bliss....

How to Dress Like Cary Grant

R252 R253 R255

Thank you, I laughed so much that I cried!!

Beautiful shot of Cary

Looking at the older pictures of the two of them together, it appears that Grant had quite the package on him...Cooper, not so much.

sorry...meant Scott ^^^^for some reason was thinking Gary Cooper.

just friends.....sure....

I think that photo is a composite

“How old Cary Grant?”

“Old Cary Grant fine.”

Just two 'straight roommates'.

Love the last pic.

I always get a little teary-eyed, thinking about them sitting in the back of that restaurant holding hands, as late as the 1970s

Cary and Randolph both are part of the cast of Hot Saturday (1932). They share a short scene (starting at 1:05:30) where they display more chemistry with each other than both have with the female star during the entire film.