Succession, season 2

Not the best episode, because Roman's and Shiv's constant snarking when they're together wears on me very quickly; but I loved the metaphor of the stink in the "summer palace," and the servants simply throwing away all the food on Logan's orders rather than giving it to a homeless shelter (it was perfectly fine--he was just disgusted by the smell of the raccoons).

I like it more when they explore aspects of the kids' awful childhoods. They've still yet to make clear who Conner's mother was and what happened to her, or who Caroline really is (the aristocratic mother of the other three children) and why she left Logan (she's as monstrous as he is, if not so scary).

Tom's sucking up is always funny.

Did no one else watch the season premiere?

Good episode though of course it had that element of setting new storylines in motion. But the scene where Logan tells Shiv he wants her to be the next CEO was extremely well-played, especially by Sarah Snook. Of course I imagine it won't be that simple for Shiv. Seems Logan has chosen Shiv as his successor but is ignoring her advice - get out of legacy media - in favor of Roman's advice.

The scenes with Kendall were hard to watch. I will be interested to see where they take that character this season. I assume it's going to be dark.

Like with every episode, it needed more Cousin Greg.

I liked Logan berating the contractor: "Sue me. My attorney used to work for the Justice Department, how about yours?"

Very Trumpian. Well, very any rich guy, honestly.

Any gay characters in this series?

Yes r5 there is an Asian American tech entrepreneur who sold his company to Royco last season which made him an important shareholder. In one scene they showed him with his partner, another Asian man. He was seen in last night’s “this season in Succession” clips so he’ll seemingly be part of the action this season.

Also, Roman’s sexuality is ... in question.

Did anyone but me notice what an unexpectedly great ass Kieran Culkin has last night? Tight bubble butt.

I'm guessing since Kendall is not guilty of murder, he no longer feels he has to be Daddy's lap dog?

It was interesting to learn this info about the car accident. The first time I watched the episode, I assumed the kid was still strapped in. A week or 2 ago, when HBO showed the marathon, I did notice the kid's body float out of window while the car was submerged. Question now I guess is - did Kendall unbuckle the seatbelt to make it look the kid drowned on his own? Wasn't Kendall on that side of the care after he got out? Guess I'm watching that episode again.

Like others, I wish there was a little more male eye candy on the show. And a prominent gay character. I'd even settle for somewhat bland-looking Cousin Greg, since the actor is 6'7" in real life.

Link to season 1 thread.

Didn't like this episode at all as I was bored out of my mind. The opening scene and the yacht green screens were atrocious.

Still no black people to be seen, though the casting director clearly has a thing for Indian Americans. No gay people either. A blink and you'll miss it moment with the Asian one is probably all the crumbs we'll get this season. If it doesn't improve on these two fronts by the end of the season, I'm out.

[quote]'m guessing since Kendall is not guilty of murder, he no longer feels he has to be Daddy's lap dog?

It's been a long time since I watched last season's finale -- but my impression is that Kendall is indeed responsible for that boy's death, and he's now indebted to Daddy for covering it up. He's also feeling guilty as hell.

Boring episode.

Fun fact-the estate where they shot the Summer Palace stuff was the Henry Ford estate in Southampton. It’s worth approximately $275 million. I thought it looked more like a museum than a home.

I tried - this show isn’t worth the commitment. Kendall moping around all shell shocked and compliant is so unrealistic and over-simplified. Shiv is the only character of depth. Culling is a one note annoyance.

Kendall is responsible for the cater-waiter's death the same way Ted Kennedy is responsible for Mary Jo Kopechne's death--it was an accident (he swerved on a bridge to avoid hitting a deer), but he left the guy to drown after he got himself out of the car and did not send for help. Hen would never be held legally responsible, but it would wreck any future career plans he might have to make it big.

There IS going to be a prominent gay character--it's the Asian-American Internet billionaire from last season--he will be promoted this semester to a major character.

Fleeing the scene of an accident is a crime r16, Kendall could absolutely be held legally responsible (not to mention he had alcohol, weed and coke in his system when he was driving, though I guess that detail would be tough to prove after the fact).

I thought this episode was a nice ease back into the show, which is really the point of a premiere. Starting with those gorgeous scenes in Iceland completely takes you back into the world of excess (man HBO is doing well financially I guess).

Looks like Shiv is going to be playing the Kendall role this season.

[quote]Also, Roman’s sexuality is ... in question.

I don't think they are setting up Roman to be gay, it definitely feels like something darker and more sinister. He has some serious abuse and hang ups when it comes to sex I think.

[quote] Fleeing the scene of an accident is a crime [R16], Kendall could absolutely be held legally responsible (not to mention he had alcohol, weed and coke in his system when he was driving, though I guess that detail would be tough to prove after the fact).

I should have phrased it better--my point was that it would be unlikely they could prove him guilty of manslaughter.

They definitely would not know he had used substances this late after the fact (unless he revealed it to someone). I would be genuinely surprised if they could prove he drove the car. You are right, though, that he could get in trouble for fleeing the scene of the accident, though.

No he won’t, R17. I work on the show. He disappears after the second episode.

That's too bad, but can't say I am surprised r21. He played a very background role last season as well.

Hiam Abbass needs to have a more prominent role. Just kill the bastard Trumpian patriarch already and make the show about her. So sick of white people...

Did you know she was born in Nazareth?

R13 here. The PI guy said the UK authorities were ruling it a "death by misadventure."

The cater-waiter's body was found outside the car. He wasn't strapped in. Other than finding Kendall's key card, there wasn't anything to tie him to the death. There were no witnesses to put him at the scene. My point was that there's nothing to keep Kendall in line if he's not involved in the death. Logan won't want it to get out that he covered it up. Kendall will not be Logan's lapdog/whipping boy.

The incident with Tom eating his own cum. Wasn't that kind of gay?

Well it was sexual act between a man and woman, so not gay by definition r25.

R23, she’s also lived in Paris for several years with her boyfriend and their child. I find her quite allluring.

And they were positioning it that the dead waiter had stolen Kendall's keycard and rifled his room, which is why it was found near his dead body.

I know it's probably not what the writers intended, but I read both Kendall and Roman as closeted gays, because that's the only way they make sense to me, and it also makes this white heterofest more tolerable. I'm glad I'm not the only one in thinking that....

[quote]Kendall should deal with his crippling insecurities and addiction by realizing he’s gay is my thoughts on the #Succession premiere

I thought that part of the allure of going off with the now-dead cater waiter for Kendall was the idea of getting a blow job as well as blow.

Has Brian Cox lost weight?

[Quote]and it also makes this white heterofest more tolerable.

Heh, this show is very white and very straight. To an extent that is true that it feels unusual in 2019 to be watching a TV show so white and straight.

So our show insider was legit, the one gay character on the show did get written off.

Show inside, is the show going to explain why Roman doesn't like having sex this season?

R32,

You do realize this show is a mix of the Murdoch's, Redstone's, and Kushner/Trump family dynamics?

So, no this won't be a woke wonderland.

Thanks for that brilliant insight r35....

I don't get why Tom would have become angry at the dinner with Shiv but would let Roman get away with being even worse. Tom is one of the family now.

Roman's non-stop cruel mouthiness to others to me just doesn't make sense. I see why Kendall would put up with it (since he's so broken), and Shiv seems to find it cute, and I get why employees have to put up with it. I don't see why (for example) Kendall or Willa put up with it. It strains credulity to me.

[quote] I don't see why (for example) Kendall or Willa put up with it.

Sorry--that should read "Conner or Willa"

Jeannie Berlin is great, but I cannot get over how old she looks. Her mother must be a million.

Well its who Roman is, I don't think they expect him to change r37. And I don't think anyone else really feels threatened by Roman, deep down he is seen as kind of a joke.

Also I chuckled when Lawrence told Kendall he heard he was doing yoga like a hausfrau. Seemed a very DL comment to put in the mouth of the gay guy.

R37, you have to remember back to Season 1 when the family went to Conner and Willa's place for therapy. Logan said Shiv was marrying Tom because he's safe so she wouldn't have to work at her marriage/she could be the center of attention, or something like that. Add to the problem, that Greg told Tom the MORNING of the wedding that he saw something between Shiv and her co-worker on the campaign. Her fuckbuddy was invited to the wedding. AND AFTER the wedding, Shiv tells him she's "not good at monogamy."

He's been ridiculed enough behind the scenes. Not only has she never defended Tom, but she joined in on the fun with Roman IN FRONT OF the woman who made him swallow his own load!!

Humiliation, table for 1.

But at least he told Shiv to fuck off after her bitchy comment about his “boxy suits.”

[quote]Jeannie Berlin is great, but I cannot get over how old she looks.

"Look, Lenny. This is me in 47 years."

I agree Roman is never not going to be mouthy to everyone on the show (he was clearly created to be a breakout character); but that doesn't mean it's believable everyone in the family puts up with his mouthiness.

This episode was better than the first, but I just realised that were it not for the shaky cam, this show would put me to sleep ten minutes into each episode.

I love the way Jeannie Berlin talks. It's like she's on muscle relaxants all the time, and it relaxes me in return.

Haha, R46.

I've got to point out, but the actress who plays Shiv has an incredible ass. She should tip her wardrobe person for putting her in such flattering pants.

The gay character is very much back in Episode 2.

Yes we knew from the previews that this episode would involve him r49. The question was about the rest of the season, r21 said he would disappear after this episode, and given what happened to Vautner it looks like they knew what they were talking about.

*the homosexual has left the game*

I kinda hate that r21 revealed that because they also spoiled the twist in this episode by doing so. Oh, well.

[QUOTE]I've got to point out, but the actress who plays Shiv has an incredible ass.

Her whole body is incredible. She was so voluptuous in the wedding episode from last season where she had on that pink outfit. Perfect hourglass figure.

I always forget there are lesbians here

I'm not that poster but I am gay, not blind. I noticed her body was pretty stacked as well.

You think straight guys somehow don't notice when a guy has a nice body? We all have eyes.

Renewed for Season 3, cunts...

It's cheap to make and gets decent numbers, so I'm not surprised.

There is so much hesitation written into the characters speech patterns that if they removed all the "ums" it would be a half hour show. Also, other than the wife, nobody is believable as a person brought up with great wealth. the daughter, the neurotic son, the red haired daughter all seem very middle class.

The show is very talky and could easily become very suffocating. I think that's why we get all the dramatic location changes - Manhattan, New Mexico, Scotland, Iceland, Summer Palace, etc.

I like it. It's the first HBO show I've liked in years.

[Quote]Also, other than the wife, nobody is believable as a person brought up with great wealth. the daughter, the neurotic son, the red haired daughter all seem very middle class

Trump was bought up in great wealth and he belongs with the People of Walmart. I don't know why you think being rich means you will have tons of class, that seems a very naive viewpoint.

This episode was one of the best yet. I am now an official fan of Succession, which sucks since I wanted to cancel HBO. These motherfuckers always come up with something that keeps me paying for it.

“Cheap to make,” R56? Let me tell you, it’s got a pretty good sized budget. It’s not about a bunch of homeless people. And those helicopters don’t come cheap.

Yes this show is not definitely not considered cheap to make. Do you not remember the premiere had scenes that were filmed in freakin Iceland?

[quote]I've got to point out, but the actress who plays Shiv has an incredible ass.

[quote]Her whole body is incredible. She was so voluptuous in the wedding episode from last season where she had on that pink outfit. Perfect hourglass figure.

The night that episode aired plenty of people tweeted about how shocking her ass is. Now it's all I see.

R14 Reality is that the home was listed at $175 million a couple years ago and has since been reduced to $145. I've been to this home a number of times and it has a ways to come down before it'll sell.

For those looking for a gay character, aside from the Asian, Tom is the man. Just look at his mannerisms. Give it a little time.

Yeah, Tom reads gay to me as well.

I love/hate this show. It draws me in, but everyone is so fucking unlikable. They’re all monsters , and redeeming qualities are really hard to find.

Yeah, Tom reads gay to me as well.

I love/hate this show. It draws me in, but everyone is so fucking unlikable. They’re all monsters , and redeeming qualities are really hard to find.

[quote] It draws me in, but everyone is so fucking unlikable. They’re all monsters , and redeeming qualities are really hard to find.

I guess this is a personal opinion, but I don't get what is bad about flawed characters. The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men. The greatest shows of the modern era were about flawed characters. This idea that people need someone a "good character" to "root for" is so juvenile to me.

R69, you’ve posted that same opinion before. I hear you on everything, but don’t agree that I’m. juvenile because I find th3 characters unlikable.

I already said I love/hate the show. Can you read and comprehend?

Flawed characters are great, and needed. I just personally feel that Succession goes too far. Th3 characters are not only lousy people, but they’re also awful to every other family member. None of them has an ounce of loyalty for anyone else. I don’t need characters to root for, but I’d like to see one or two who aren’t scum.

I guess the doofus cousin fits that bill, as does old man Logan’s wife, but we don’t see much of her.

Sorry if I don’t live up to your standards regarding fictional characters and can’t be as adult as you.

I am with R69. It is really refreshing to have a show where everyone is scum in their own unique way and there is no special pleading that any of them is worthwhile.

The weird Britishisms in the dialog are sometimes distracting. While the family is connected to Britain, they are not the only ones to insert a "well done" or some other Britphrase into their dialog.

And Connor said in the season finale last year that if he was president nobody would have to “pay tax.” That’s a Britishism. Americans say “paying taxes.”

The showrunner of this thing is British (Jesse Armstrong) guess it is no surprise that sneaks through.

I am luuuuuuuuving this show, I’ve been binge watching the last week.

I do agree, I would like more diversity in the cast — though you can easily make the case that this type of family would abhor any type of person who doesn’t fit a very narrow mold.

The actor who plays Logan should get an award for Most Creative Deliveries of the Phrase “Fuck Off.” Seriously, I cant think of any other character in either film or tv that has done that. Also, I strangely have found that while I disliked him immensely at the beginning of the series, I now have a soft spot for him.

I was confused this episode with a few things.

First of all, who was this Mo who died? Whoever this person was it was the one who betrayed Logan, but whose death we were told about at the end of the episode. We were told a Marianne told them Mo died, and Marianne is the name of Greg (the tall doofus cousin's) mother. At first i thought this as the name of Greg's grandfather (who is also Logan's brother), played by James Cromwell, but I checked and his character's name was Ewan. Is this a different Marianne?

What is Pierce? This was the gigantic family-owned media company they said they were trying to take over last night, and were told the Pierce cable station is the one that serious people watch, unlike the Roy family's Fox-like network. is this supposed to a version of Turner Broadcasting, which owns (owned?) CNN? or CBS/Viacom, which used to be one company and family owned (by the Redstones), and used to own CBS? From the previews it looks like Holly Hunter will play the CEO of Pierce next episode and that she's a member of the Pierce family (though she has a different last name).

Who was the gorgeous guy Shiv fucked? Was he just an actor in Willa's play? How did he not know who Shiv was, when we are told the Roy children are all at least minor celebrities?

Yes, the CNN to their FOX needs definitely seems like what they were going for.

And the guy was definitely pretty airheaded and didn't follow the news that closely. Not surprising he didn't know who Shiv was. I mean the kids aren't Oprah, do you know what Rupert Murdoch's kids look like?

Oh right: I forgot the actor said he didn't watch TV. That explains why he didn't recognize Shiv (though that an actor in NYC would not own a TV seems hard to believe).

[quote] I do agree, I would like more diversity in the cast — though you can easily make the case that this type of family would abhor any type of person who doesn’t fit a very narrow mold.

Though they have tolerated Logan's third wife, Marcia, who is from the Middle East (Palestinian? Israeli? Lebanese?), which is not from their background.

R78 you are right I suppose, but she also “passes” as Caucasian. It reminds me of how the Trump’s tolerate Melania even though she’s different. But I understand your point, you are correct, I forgot about her.

That entire 'boor on the floor' scene was horrific.

I really can't stand Shiv. I keep hoping her father fucks her over with this whole plan to make her CEO.

whoops. that was supposed to be boar, but I guess one could call Logan a boor. Tom is so pitiful but I have a hard time feeling bad for him.

I wish there were more of Marcia on the show.

I thought Matthew MacFayden looked so handsome in the early seasons of Spooks and as Darcy in the Keira Knightley P&P.

Now, he just looks so odd. Not from "aging" as such. I can't quite put my finger on why he looks so much less appealing now.

Well, he's aged quite a bit since P&P and the early seasons of Spooks--he was still in his 20s back then, and now he's 44.

He gained a lot of weight a while ago and was settling into playing heavyset middle-aged men: Oblonsky in "Anna Karenina," Mr. Wilcox in the BBC adaptation of "Howards End." But he thinned down considerably for this role, and he looks very good, although I think Tom Wamsgans is supposed to be in his late 30s, and he does look (and is) a little older.

Keep in mind that Tom is not an expensive dresser (as we learned last episode), and so his suits will not fit as well as those of the three Roy sons. I think he's supposed to be handsome enough that it's believable Shiv chose him, but not in the looks league of guys like the actor she fucked in tonight's episode.

You don't hyper-decant?

R32, they're very rich and have repellant personalities, so it does feel appropriate for 2019.

R57, the eldest (?) brother Connor comes off like a person raised in a very wealthy milieu. He's very polished, ultraconservative and out of his frigging mind, and spends money on very expensive crap. The other siblings do seem a bit out of place with all the wealth, which I took to suggest that their father earned it as they were growing up. But then how to explain Connor, who comes off as to the manor (and manner) born?

Conner has a different mother than the other three siblings, and so far we know almost nothing about her. In the first season we learnedLogan misses her, but we do not know if she died or if she is just divorced from him.

We learned at the end of the first season that the mother (Harriet Walter) of the other three is an English aristocrat divorced from Logan, and that they were raised in part in her family's stately country home in the UK (where Shiv and Tom got married). So they should not seem out of place with all their wealth. They were also partly raised in the US, though, and we know Roman enjoys being rude to people, and that Kendall behaves the way he thinks his father wants him to behave.

It is weird to me that we are this far along in the series and yet we do not know the stories of Logan's three wives, where he met them, why he married them, and why the first two left him. The three younger children seem very disconnected from their mother, and she from them.

[quote]It is weird to me that we are this far along in the series and yet we do not know the stories of Logan's three wives

There's only been 13 episodes.

R75, I think Mo was the tall, grey-haired man Logan was speaking with at the beginning of the show. He gave an excuse for not going to Hungary for the Corporate meeting. He's a well-known actor but I can't remember his name.

r78

I think she is french

and who was the actor that Shiv fucked? He looks familiar

Another boring episode. Until the dinner shit started going down, that is. Was glad the hunting scene was so short; I fucking hate hunting.

I said in another thread that I wanted to see more of Saamer Usmani (they guy whom Shiv fucked) when I saw him on The Other Two. He's so beautiful. Of course they misspelled his name in the credits, because who gives a shit anymore. And my theory that Harrison Nesbit is going through a South Asian phase has been totally confirmed at this point. I hoped to see at least one black person when Connor revealed his team but no, all wypipo again. Sigh.

Hiam Abbass, the actress who plays Marcia, is Arab-Israeli. Her character lived in Paris before with her first husband, but it's not suggested they originated there--we are told he was a shady Lebanese businessman entertaining sleazy types from all over the world, and Marcia speaks with a slight but definite Middle Eastern accent,

As mentioned before, Abbass was born in Nazareth and then raised in an Arab village, both in Israel. But yes, she has a French citizenship and speaks French. Her character is definitely not some French royalty either.

Shiv is probably just another pawn in Logan’s endgame R80. Really doubt He intends her to take over (unless he’s dead and she soundly defeats her brothers).

Greg's gonna get it all, like what

Logan is too monstrously sociopathic even to let his own children take over for him--he will hold on to the empire until he dies. I expect he will play Shiv all season long and then she'll be in for a nasty surprise.

I hope we do get a season or two after he dies though to see who ultimately gets the empire and what they do with it, even though Brian Cox is so mesmerizing as an actor.

I am surprised that all the children except Connor want the empire so much and are willing to take their father's constant abuse since it's been established that they all have so much money right now they are each extremely wealthy in their own right. But I guess the same thing is true with the Murdochs--they are raised to be greedy, and so they eachwant the whole thing.

Yes, Shiv is being strung along the same way Kendall was. Logan is absolutely not going to step down in power while he is still alive.

Logan just got her to give up her separate career and join her brothers in being under his thumb and jockeying for position at the firm, exactly the way he wants it.

You'd think Shiv wouldn't fall for this.

R75, Mo’s wife’s name is Maria, not Marianne

R90, the character played by Danny Huston in the first scene wasn’t Mo, he’s one of Logan’s top attorneys. Mo was some sort of executive director of the Roy cruise liner business.

R92

Why are you so obsessed with black characters? Lack of Black characters is obviously intentional on this show. Just think.

r100 Because only white people can be corrupt and deplorable, and Omarosa wasn't an enabler in the Trump administration?

Also, you don't know me personally, so maybe don't diagnose me with being obsessed with anything. Just ignore me and offer your own thoughts on the show instead. Meanwhile, I'll keep bringing up representation until I'm blue in the face. Deal?

Anyhoo, I just found out Saamer was on What/If. Guess I'll have to check out that shitfest now.

R101

Because you are talking about over and over and over again. Beyond tiresome. It's a story of a one-percent-family. Of course they are all same race. Of course they are white. And Omarosa is all you got? Seriously? I respect diverse casting, but context matters.

I think the blackest they’ll ever go is someone like Peter Francis-James as one of Logan’s lackeys.

[quote]First of all, who was this Mo who died? Whoever this person was it was the one who betrayed Logan, but whose death we were told about at the end of the episode.

I presumed [bold]everyone[/bold] betrayed Logan by speaking to the biographer, and Mo was cited as being the source simply because he's dead and Logan's rage re the mole would end with that "knowledge."

BTW loved the evil & snarky "morning after" moment when Cyd Peach (Jeannie Berlin) makes the sausage comment to Tom.

“I’LL eat your sausage, Tom.”

Even Kendall's drug dealers are white.

And so is the sole hooker (Willa).

This was the first episode of the second season I really enjoyed from start to finish. The Nazi background, the (fake) panic rooms, Roman's insane mommy issues, Whatshisface's eulogy... amazing.

Has Holly Hunter's lip always pulled to one side or is that a recent development? 😕

r108, how did you get to see the 4th episode this season? I thought it doesn't air until Sunday.

r109 Oops, sorry for any spoilers. Some people have probably missed this yesterday.

[quote]Quick heads up that HBO is dropping new episodes of its Sunday programming (including Succession) TOMORROW to get ahead of Labor Day

This was my favorite episode of the entire series. The dialogue was insanely good.

Thanks R110!

The blackmail stuff with Tom and Greg is priceless!!

The blackmail scene, the safe room scene and the realization of why Roman is detached from his girlfriend were the highlights of the episode.

Note that Tom is in two of the three scenes you name r114. I can’t get enough of him. And he isn’t necessarily super-cute, it is his quirky delivery that is so charming. I have a crush! The safe room scene had me cackling like the old whore I am haha.

The episode was great. But after laughing my ass off for most of it, I found the final moments quietly devastating and I love that about this show. It will be interesting to see how Shiv's relationship with Kendall will change now that she's seen him so vulnerable. And Logan's concern for Kendall is almost touching.

Roman's spot on the training video getting cut short - I was dying. That was so fucking hilarious. Keiran Culkin is fucking amazing in this show.

Wow, this new episode really is something. That last scene with Shiv and Kendall. Wow.

Roman's degradation kink is much less interesting as an explanation for his non-existent sex life than suppressed homosexuality would have been.

It looks like Cherry Jones is going to play the matriarch of the Pierce family next episode. They're an interesting contrast to the Roys--the Roys are brand new money, and are vulgar and obnoxious, and the Pierces are old money that goes way back, like the Bancrofts (whom I assume they're based on) or the Sulzbergers or the Binghams.

Holly Hunter was great as the CEO of Pierce--she seemed smart, classy, and much smarter than any of the Roy kids (except Shiv).

The stuff with Tom and Greg in the safe room was hilarious. Matthew Macfadyen is such a fine actor--you could tell his heart just broke when Greg wanted to leave (Greg is the only person who ever takes him seriously).

Shiv is not the only one in the family with a great ass! Kieran Culkin's is really nice. I don't quite understand why he can't get a dominatrix as a partner with his money instead of Tabitha, but i guess that he had to hear the abuse from Gerri to turn him on so much means he does have huge mother issues. I do wish we knew more about his relationship with his own mom (why don't they live in the UK, or why doesn't she live in the US). And who was Conner's mother? Why did Logan Roy name three of his children classic Scottish names and then name Roman something different? Is his real name "Romulus" (as Logan keeps calling him), and "Roman" is the nickname, or is it vice-versa?

The eulogy was also hilarious.

Siobhan is an Irish name, not Scottish, isn’t it?

After the episode on HBO Now the show creator Jesse Armstrong said that Tom saying to Greg he wanted to go be somewhere else was like a dog going to go live with another family.

Oops, of course I meant “Greg saying to Tom...”

[quote]Tom saying to Greg he wanted to go be somewhere else was like a dog going to go live with another family.

I also read it as a trigger for Greg when Tom mentioned "open relationship", after how Shiv has been cucking him left and right. That man is going to fucking snap one day and it's going to be glorious. His little office freakout in this episode was just an appetiser.

This episode was fantastic, the show is really firing on all cyclinders right now. A lot of the highlights have been mentioned, but can we also point out Connor's hilariously bad funeral speech? His obliviousness at his own lack of talent is great.

[quote]Kieran Culkin's is really nice. I don't quite understand why he can't get a dominatrix as a partner with his money instead of Tabitha

I wondered that as well. If being degraded is what he is into, there is a industry in New York that caters to that. You'd think he would be involved in that dominatrix scene.

[quote]A lot of the highlights have been mentioned, but can we also point out Connor's hilariously bad funeral speech?

To be fair, that eulogy was impersonal and thus bad on purpose, so that unauthorised biographer sitting in the pews couldn't connect Connor to the deceased in any way. But yeah, it was cringe central.

Moe. No, his name was Lester.

I love this show. All of the sons ping a little to me - I don't understand why one of them isn't gay - not a goofy stereo-typical character but someone that represents the LBGTQ community in a positive way. Why doesn't Hollywood have more gay characters - seems contradictory to the values they espouse. And a gay character would be a wonderful thorn in the side of Brian Cox's character.

[quote]I don't understand why one of them isn't gay - not a goofy stereo-typical character but someone that represents the LBGTQ community in a positive way.

In a positive way? I mean all of these characters are awful human beings.

[quote] I don't understand why one of them isn't gay - not a goofy stereo-typical character but someone that represents the LBGTQ community in a positive way.

Because none of the kids is supposed to represent anyone in a positive way.

This is a show about a family of genuinely horrible people--don't you get that?

I too was incredibly moved at the ending scene between Kendall and Siobhan. BOTH of them delivered that beautifully — acting at its finest!!! It MOVED me. I felt his pain, he’ll never forgive himself for the car accident. I think it’s possible that he will off himself, he’s just looking for the right reason to go. Heart wrenching as he’s the only Roy with true compassion and empathy IMHO. But Siobhan was incredible there as well, you could feel her move from suspicion to true worry and fear for him.

Sidebar — is spelling her nickname as “Shiv” accurate? I feel weird typing it that way, but I’m sure one of you will know the answer.

R127, I agree. But I have such enjoyment watching it — let’s hope that they add that complexity to these stories and characters too. It can only go up if they do that.

Last but not least. What the FUCK with Logan telling Kendall “good job” as Holly Hunter departs, then he turns to Shiv and gives her a patronizing smirk??? I think she is wicked smart, but Kendall was the one who understood that their bottom line was the right price. Is Shiv meant to take over, is she actually experienced enough? Is Logan trying to put them against each other? So many questions....over and over Kendall has shown that he is ***not*** the coward his father called him in the beginning of the series. Which makes me think that’s who Logan really wants as his successor. But then why bother bringing Shiv in?

[quote]In a positive way? I mean all of these characters are awful human beings.

[quote]This is a show about a family of genuinely horrible people--don't you get that?

So only straight white people can be horrible? I'd sure love to join both of you in your reality where there are no Ana Navarros and Uncle Toms and Log Cabin Republicans around... 🤪

Of course gay people can be horrible, just look around this board, but you were the one that used the expression "in positive way" which is the wrong way to phrase it.

[quote]But then why bother bringing Shiv in?

This is obvious, of course Logan wants all his children under his control. Shiv was an outsider, she had her own career separate from him. Now she is under his thumb.

True r132, but now he’s going to have to expend a lot of energy continuing the farce of her being his successor, no?

[quote] So only straight white people can be horrible?

You wrote you wanted the sons to be gay and written to present the gay community "in a positive way." Now you're pretending you didn't write that.

I am afraid to inform you that your pants are on fire.

[quote] Sidebar — is spelling her nickname as “Shiv” accurate? I feel weird typing it that way, but I’m sure one of you will know the answer.

Yes--that's the way they spell her nickname on the HBO site. There's supposed be a joke there: as a "shiv," it's like she's a knife who will be shoved into those who cross her. She seems like the nicest of the siblings, but she's as awful as any of them.

Shiv is a cunt.

The acting in this show is across the board excellent. Strong should be a lock for a Best Lead nom next year. He's breaking my heart. I think Shiv's line to him last season is so accurate, Kendall both worships the ground his father walks on and he wants to kill him at the same time. Logan is definitely playing a game here with the two of them, but as weird as it sounds, I think he's under the impression that his mindfucks will elicit their very best which is what he wants more than anything. Kendall seeing the protective glass when he goes back to the rooftops and forlornly leans his head against the glass - it's like he's both imprisoned and protected by this father, and he can only be grateful for both. Him beseeching his sister to take care of him so he could basically have a reason to stick around was just gut wrenching.

And Mark MacFayden - this is a really special performance. He has captured a certain kind of personality that I've worked with in business and its masterful. There is so much going on in every octave of his voice. He's so horrible but at the same time, he has my sympathies. I agree with the poster above that Greg mentioning an "open" relationship to their office partnership was a trigger for Tom. At the same time, he can't really believe that he's got the stuff to become CEO of Waystar, right? He's slightly delusional.

I rewatched the last half of S1 the other day to refresh my memory on a few details and I think I'm going to go back and watch from the beginning. Roman is fascinating. I want to know more about the kids growing up away from their mother.

The best lines are either spoken by or to Greg.

"Buckle-up, fuckleberry!"

Anyone else excited for this?!

Yes, R139, YES!!!

I can’t believe HBO is giving boring soap opera bullshit like this and BLL three or more seasons but they cancelled Looking before it even found its footing.

r141 Looking got horrible ratings and these two shows are hits, regardless of the lower quality of BLL season 2. HBO is business first and foremost.

The Greg-Tom relationship is so gay. Does anyone else see that?

For the commenter above who's pissy about no gay characters on the show. I could see any of the kids swinging wide in their kinks, choices, and partners.

Connor is shacked up with an escort. Roman's mommy issues. Shiv can't commit. All much more interesting than just being gay.

No one is pissy, we just want to see people like ourselves on the screen. And there's more than one of us bringing it up, thank god.

[quote]All much more interesting than just being gay.

Why are you on DL if you're so dismissive of gay people? And even a cursory glance at this place should tell you most of us are damaged in some way, which is what you said you find interesting. People can be gay and damaged at the same time, and we need to see that on TV as well.

that phone sex scene was hilarious

[quote]The Greg-Tom relationship is so gay. Does anyone else see that?

Astronauts in space can see it.

Yeah they purposely wrote the scene of Greg asking for a different job as a break up scene, its not subtle at all.

Though it's still "gay" in the straightest way possible.

I think Roman is going to hook up with the fat black guy he met at the management seminar.

I have the hots for Roman after this last episode. I would love to degrade him and watch him get off. (Wait, did I type that out loud?!)

This show gets better with every episode.

I couldn't help wondering if Moe molested one of the kids. They weren't allowed in the pool with him, but that doesn't mean he didn't have other opportunities.

What was in the fireplace chimney that was wrapped in plastic and stunk-up the house? I couldn’t make it out. Ty.

A bag of decomposing raccoons Pierre. Icky-kaa-kaa.

Thank you.

The only problem I have with this television show is, I just don't buy these people as a family. On an individual level the casting brilliant, but the characters don't come together as an ensemble for me. It takes me right out of the central thread of the show.

I do buy Shiv and Tom and husband and wife though.

And I want to fuck the living shit out of Stewie.

That's fair r156. Do Kendall, Roman and Shiv really look like they all came from the same parents? Nope, not really.

I like how Kendall, Roman, and Shiv seem to care about each other, but are rivals, too. Ok, Roman doesn’t seem to care about anybody, but that’s ok.

I just stumbled on this show a few days ago and really like it.

R158

He cares about Kendall for sure. In Austerlitz, when they were driving in the car and Kendall was singing Akuna Matata, it was obvious they care about each other. And hug scene before the wedding. It's interesting how tender and brutal they are with each other.

They didn't grow up in an affectionate, loving environment and it isn't natural for them to be that way. You see how much it bewildered Shiv to see Kendall so emotionally bare.

But it is obvious that under all the insults and rivalry the siblings do love each other. Well those three siblings, not sure they love Connor...

R145

I fucking hate this argument since mentioned Looking was destroyed by people "who want to see themselves on TV". I want to see good interesting shows. I see myself every day in the mirror.

The three siblings also had a good scene in the S1 finale where they sat in a small boat together and shot the shit.

Conner, back when he was Ferris Bueller's best friend.

So, are you guys saying Conner is actually a sibling of the main three? Half sibling?

r164

have you not watched the show??? They have different mothers.... I don't thin we have met Connor's mom

Ok, so, do they have the same father? Ty.

Perhaps this show isn't for you...

Don’t be a dick, R167.

Wow, Greg is 6’6”.

Yeah, Matthew McFadyen is a tall guy but Nicholas Braun still towers over him.

Nicholas Braun is sooooooo good at being naive and inept and yes, still uncomfortable with his height. Gawky. That character seems like someone we all have known at one time or another.

Matthew McFadyen is the best thing in this entire show. He’s a superb actor.

I am addicted to this show, but i really have some problems with it. I am not hate watching it, but dont understand almost universal accolades. I just dont understand what is the strategy of the show, what are they trying to say. Rich people are horrible is a nice message, but they are not doing anything original with it. I think dialogues are too heavy and as funny as writers think they are. And Logan is annoying. He is too one note. Evil rich bastard - too weak after terrific tv characters like Walter or Tony. What are they planning to do with him? They are on the season two, and he is already throwing Stalin-style orgies. I'd like to see some real feelings, some vulnerability. He is too predictable. And i like Kendall, but his sad eyed puppy look is getting tiresome.

NOT as funny.

When Logan had his tantrum and demanded the boors on the floor eat sausages, I thought maybe he was in the early stages of something like Alzheimer's.

[quote]I thought maybe he was in the early stages of something like Alzheimer's.

S1 alluded to a deteriorating mental state with Logan's his pouring his coffee to overflowing, pissing in the corner of his room and slapping Kendall's son. That seems to be ignored this season.

r176

I thought that was because of the stroke... he also molested the nurses

And he guided Shiv’s hand onto his crotch once, remember?

Kendall shat the bed!

Did they make a deal or not?

[quote]Did they make a deal or not?

Yes. The other side caved.

Thank you

Then why did Logan go nuts and hit the helicopter window if they caved?

because Jerri shook her head no to indicate the talks weren't going well, but in the time it took to land the helicopter they changed their mind.

Also, I am really starting to think something went very wrong with Roman when he was a kid. Did the nanny sexually abuse him while berating him or what? He is messed up. He wanted the gf to play dead?

When they were asking him about the made up book title that he supposedly read had to be one of the cringiest on this show so far. Wonder if Kendall and Naomi will hook up again. I can't believe they went there with the shitting in the bed.

[quote]Also, I am really starting to think something went very wrong with Roman when he was a kid. Did the nanny sexually abuse him while berating him or what? He is messed up. He wanted the gf to play dead?

From a recap of the series one episode of Tom's bachelor party. This was likely the start of Roman's humiliation kink, et al.

Roman ends up scaring Sandy away with a story about how Kendall used to force him to play a game called dog pound where he would lock Roman in a dog cage and make him eat dog food. Kendall is taken aback by the accusation—not that they played the game, but that it might not have been consensual. This angers Roman who temporarily abandons his quest for Sandy’s attention by seeking out Connor to clarify things. Connor backs up Kendall’s story, saying that Roman loved the game and would ask to play it. Roman, confused, insists that this is the root of his trauma that caused bedwetting and ultimately military school but it turns out he asked for military school too. When Kendall later talks to Connor about the game, Connor sheds some more light on it, suggesting that it was Logan’s idea because in his mind if you have two fighting dogs then you punish the weak one by sending it away.

I remember all that, thanks R186, but it still doesn't fully explain his humiliation kink to me and him essentially being repulsed by sex. I don't think the dog pound was the origin, but in Roman's recollection of it, he may have seen it as ground zero.

I would guess Roman's humiliation kink has a number of roots:

We've seen that Logan regularly humiliates his children, and that Caroline (Roman's mother) is a real bitch. He might have been so browbeaten as a child by them that this contributed to it,. And as the youngest of the three boys, he was probably physically abused by his older brothers when they took out on him the shame their father meted out to them.

Seeing Kendall high off his ass and in the driver's seat of a vehicle again gave me anxiety, addicts never really learn do they.

The dog story proves even as a kid Roman loved being humiliated. That's the thing, all his siblings tell him he loved getting locked in a dog cage and degraded. It's always been a part of his personality.

Biggest shock ever; Shiv makes the announcement that she is the successor in front of everyone!!!

Sad; Kendall unable to stop partying, though he appears to be a moderately functioning addict.

Most clever scene is the dinner itself. The “scepter” ladle was delightful. But much more entertaining was the fact that single member of the Roy clan did the *opposite* of what Logan instructed them to do over dinner.

Logan received the good news after they exited the helicopter.

I thought that was blood in Kendall's bed. Shit makes more sense.

Me too r192. I thought perhaps he slept with Naomi and she had her period or something. We caught a millisecond of his balls too, so cute.

I thought that I saw his balls, too.

I also thought that was blood.

Did you not see the sheets were soiled when he was changing the bed? It was pretty gross. Reminded me of the Trainspotting scene.

I just don;t want to look at someone's poop on TV. I hope that was a one-time thing, and is not copied by other shows, e.g. "The Crown."

R190

I dont think it works that way. Of course i am not the expert, but i read it's always a result of some trauma.

Lots of scene-chewing and smugness in the actors' performances. It's really off-putting. Especially, the Shiv actress.

Because he didn’t find out until it landed. Pay attention!

Twitter loved last night's ep. There were some great moments but I liked the previous two episodes better. Cherry Jones' character seemed a little too on the nose.

I have to admit I am loving the Roman/Gerri storyline. High comedy.

[quote] And a prominent gay character. I'd even settle for somewhat bland-looking Cousin Greg, since the actor is 6'7" in real life.

I have been reading Greg as gay since the beginning. He shows absolutely no interest in women.

And when he asked Tom, "Are you seducing me?" at dinner, I was wondering the same thing.

Great episode. Watching Cherry Jones and Holly Hunter work in tandem at that dinner table was such a delight. Marcia slowly unravelling was wonderful as well.

I cringed when Naomi started pawing at that ladle, which was then used to pour soup. Just hold the handle, ffs. And who the hell wears a leather jacket to a (fancy) dinner? 🤨

Fast-forwarded through most of the Kendall scenes; I'm just not interested in rehashed storylines. Not when his siblings are so much more interesting than him. I'm kinda over this character, I think.

Is this show a new "Dynasty" or something?

I suspect Roman will have a scene with mummy Caroline later in the season.

R201 its Gregory

[Quote]Fast-forwarded through most of the Kendall scenes

When people say this I can't tell if they are being sarcastic or not, I can't imagine being into a such a labor of love show and fastforwarding through certain scenes.

I like Kendall, though he’s getting older. His online bio does not mention a spouse. I also liked him in the Big Short. He was a good fit for that character. I think he’s a good fit here, too. I can sense his character’s humiliation. I loved the scene where he says something like “are you gonna ask me?” to the woman in recovery. He was drinking wine with dinner, I don’t know what kind of recovery that is.

Roman bugs me a bit because his character is not remotely plausible. He’s stuck with lines that were written for him, and they’re just not realistic for a real person to say.

A lot of Roman's dialog is improv by Kieran Culkin. He always plays the sassy character.

Kieran Culkin deserves all the awards, if it's true.

That's true of a lot of the actors, improv is highly encouraged on set. If you check out interviews they talk about it.

[Quote]In addition to what the writers are throwing at you, how much improvisation would you do in the middle of scenes? I have gone back to watch the show and I actually can’t remember what stuff I came up with, what stuff was an on-the-fly line that a writer gave me, and how much stuff was in the original script. They were like, “Say what you want or say this or say what was scripted,” and then we would shoot several takes. Sometimes we would do a few without stopping the camera. Sometimes the other actor would say a different line and I wasn’t sure if they were improvising or if a line was changed, and then we would just have to play.

R211

I always liked him, even when he was a kid actor, but he is incredibly impressive. He is so real... Such a fully realised character. He is funny and scary and pathetic and evil, all at the same time. I find his relationship with Kendall fascinating. And his horrific sexual trauma.

[quote] Pay attention!

We're not being tested on this, Controllina.

Kieran's eyes looked black when he was in Gerri's room and she started with the degrading talk. Some major depth was going on in that look. His character could have been so one note, but I agree that Kieran has been really impressive. And hilarious!

Sorry, R213, but some of these viewers are a tad dim and actually need to pay attention. And I don’t take orders from an anonymous poster who uses the label “Controlina.”

R213 is calling you, r215, a controlling person. It’s not r213’s label.

Oy vey, whatever.

I’m just saying it was obvious that in the chopper Logan was pissed because the deal fell through. But he got a call after leaving the chopper that the deal was back on. How hard was that to understand?

Perhaps Controlina is a bit dense. Perhaps you need to speak with Geri. Perhaps you need to speak with Geri while you are in her bathroom. Perhaps...............

Did you see Logan take a call after leaving the chopper? Maybe it was a telex? Or fax? Maybe an Indian runner. Hmm? How about that?

Last night’s episode was fascinating, and one of the best of the series. Cherry Jones was great.

Kendall? Yeah, I’m getting tired of his drug-induced melancholy, too. It’s the same every week.

How did Kendall shit the bed? Does drugs do that to you or something? I’ve never experienced anything that would make me lose control of my bowels rather than awakening.

R220

He's getting better, i think. But yeah, they need to change something, because it's getting tiresome.

I love the fact that by not following his father's advice Kendle broke grown on the deal over some blow and vodka.

r202, she's a blue blood heiress and recovering addict, she would be the type to wear a leather jacket to dinner. The family didn't have to impress their guests. Given the number of shares she likely holds in the family busieness I assume her place is secure enough to wear whatever she wants to dinner.

What the hell crawled up Marcia's ass during that trip? Out of nowhere, she became defensive and angry.

This should answer the dirty sheets question.

R224 That makes no sense, saying if you have to poo soon it's purer coke, as coke is often cut with baby laxative.

Kendall still was less embarassing then Shiv, because Oh boy, it was a painful day for her. I used to think what she sees in Tom, but now i wonder why he is with her. She is horrible.

I thought Shiv pulled a power move by forcing her father to finally acknowledge their deal so he couldn’t go back on it later. I mean who else could even run the company at this point? I keep rooting for Kendall but he’s just a complete mess, figuratively and now literally.

She tried to pull a power move, but Logan wouldn't let it happen.

As Shiv saw, he would rather jeopardize the entire deal than have her be officially named as his successor. Talk about a kick to the gut that forces her to see where she really stands.

The power move still stands, IMO. Logan didn’t want to be forced to name her as a successor publicly because it sets a timetable on how long he can remain and he stubbornly doesn’t want anyone telling him what to do. But everyone in both families (Roy and Pierce) now knows that Logan wants Shiv to eventually succeed him because his sons are incapable of doing it. Word will eventually spread throughout both companies, one way or another, and her status as future queen will be cemented.

I disagree r219. The way I see it Logan completely underminded Shivs status as successful.

Did Shiv at the end of the episode look happy to you? She was devastated that Logan absolutely would not name her as successor like she was hoping for.

He is playing the game with Shiv he played with Kendall in season 1, stringing them along.

Successor*

She didn’t look happy because she was nervous, and rightfully so. She’s not used to this kind of stuff. Nothing wrong with having some doubts. Now she has officially entered the gauntlet and will have to prove that she’s worthy of the crown, and I think she’s up to it.

If not Shiv, then who the hell else? Cousin Gregory?

R233, I don’t know, but Gregory is obviously a stealth candidate for something major. I think he probably will take over the company. Either that, or the History Department.

R226 Why is Tom with Shiv? She’s a beautiful billionaire from one of America’s most powerful families. It’s not like he’s much to look at. I forget does he come from a great deal of wealth? It can’t rival the Roy’s fortune.

Tom's parents are lawyers in Minneapolis, he comes from a well off family compared to an average Joe but compared to Roy family billionaire circles he was a nobody before Shiv started dating him.

R233

Messed up addict Kendall is better at this job than Shiv. Because he actually is working. She doesnt do anything. He was shown going to work on early hours in the morning. He is clever and ruthless, exposing Roman's call to Naomi and then manipulating her. He was honest with her, but it still was manipulation. While Shiv... Did she do anything, really? She didnt have a job in the company. Her work in politics ended up as a disaster. I like her, but i dont see her as a successor.

I don't see what Shiv did as a power move, because it was just an impulse, she was running on nerves, and she monumentally fucked up. Then the Pierce family sought to take advantage of her fuck-up by forcing Logan to name Shiv as the successor. Logan pulled a Hail Mary play by walking out with his money, and he ultimately won, but Shiv exposed that she's not ready to lead.

I think Logan wants Kendall to be his heir, but with Kendall so fucked up, that's impossible right now. So he's stringing Shiv along... if it motivates Kendall to get his balls back, great. If Kendall can't pull things together, Shiv is the second string. The wild card in all this is Logan's potential dementia. It means any decision he makes in the future could potentially be thrown out, giving each child a seat at the table.

R232 you obviously do not understand how these things work.

Shiv was cut off at the knees and at this point, she has no power.

But that said, at the beginning of the season I thought Kendall was persona non grata forever, and he worked himself back in by the end of the first episode. So ........

R239

I think his father accepted Kendall at the end of the first season, with his "You are my number one boy". I think he likes Kendall where he is, completely in his power. Trapped by his father. Glass walls on the roof in the end of fourth episode were a telling symbol.

[quote] Yeah, I’m getting tired of his drug-induced melancholy, too. It’s the same every week.

I guess they could move that along.. He's a really good actor, though. I like the poignancy of Kendall's situation. He's not just sad, he's humbled by guilt, etc.

Exactly, R241. Kendall isn't just an addict, he got someone killed. The guilt is crushing him. I thought Shiv would be a bit more sympathetic to him after he broke down with her, after assuming her father and his coterie were simply indulging Kendall. Obviously, she's smart enough to know something is seriously wrong there, and with how completely undone she felt by Logan not backing her during the Pierce negotiations, certainly she must be getting an inkling that Kendall has been through that game before and she needs to get her shit together fast.

I watched the most recent ep while doing some yoga stretches (what? yoga is boring otherwise), and I kept holding poses much longer than usual so I could watch the events unfold. (The more relaxing poses, of course). Riveting episode, at least for me. Oh Roman Roman, I would insult you so viciously - come to me, come to me!

It's sad that Shiv didn't pick a hotter husband. With her money, she could have had looks and brains. Not that I don't love Tom and the actor playing him. The only fuckable guy on this show is Greg the Egg, so they do look like the average run of the mill billionaires.

Yes r244. But isn’t that real life? That’s one of many things that make the family so believable. In some ways, this series reminds me of how movies were cast in the 70’s. Pacino, Hoffman, DeNiro. None of them are lookers either.

Yes r244. But isn’t that real life? That’s one of many things that make the family so believable. In some ways, this series reminds me of how movies were cast in the 70’s. Pacino, Hoffman, DeNiro. None of them are lookers either.

You're right it does fit. I'd like to know how Tom snagged a catch like Shiv?

I mean you can tell it is men behind the show, for Shiv they cared about casting a conventially hot actor, for the brothers it didn't matter.

Straight men* I mean to say

R248

Both Strong and Culkin are good looking. Not stunners, but attractive men.

I wouldn't kick either out of bed but neither has leading men type good looks r250.

I don’t agree r248. She isn’t outside the norm of women who know how to apply makeup, dress, do hair. Also, she looks great on the show, but her tits are very Gaga.

I don’t agree r248. She isn’t outside the norm of women who know how to apply makeup, dress, do hair. Also, she looks great on the show, but her tits are very Gaga.

I'd keep walking if those two asked to hook up with me. Not bad looking guys but not my type at all. The Euphoria casting team was definitely not involved cause that show only cast attractive people, much to my delight.

[quote] I forget does he come from a great deal of wealth? It can’t rival the Roy’s fortune.

Tom's character grew up in Saint Paul, so even though his mother is a successful lawyer there, I seriously doubt his family is anywhere near the Roys' league. (There are billionaires in Minnesota, but they almost all live in the swankier suburbs of Minneapolis.)

[quote] I'd like to know how Tom snagged a catch like Shiv?

Tom was an executive fairly high up at Waystar Royco before he and Shiv hooked up. (I think he just worked his way up through the ranks the way I assume others did, like Geri.) Shiv said last season that they got together when she was having a real bad time in the year or so before the show's early events began; it's been hinted by the show-runners that we'll hear more about that later this season.

I think Tom his hot.

He wasn't that high up r256, he wasn't executive level til the pilot and obviously him and Shiv were already engaged at that point.

Tom is the best character, but it doesn't seem plausible that Shiv would be with him. He's so stupid.

Tom is attractive. British looking.

[quote] Tom is the best character, but it doesn't seem plausible that Shiv would be with him. He's so stupid.

She could see him as a bit of a puppy. He checks boxes, he's tall, nice looking. She might like his ambitions and her ability to meet them. He adores her. She has him where she wants him?

R244, um, it's Gregory.

Here are some things I don't quite understand about the show:

1) Have all the kids at this point had trouble with substance abuse? I know Kendall is still struggling with it, and Connor has had problems in the past.

2) Why is Connor always included in Logan's big schemes for Waystar Royco like he was last weekend? I thought he was staying away from Waystar Royco and was just going to live on the huge amounts of money his father has given him already (or that he inherited from his mother? He seems richer than the other siblings.

3) Why is Greg(ory) always at the Roys' house? He's a cousin, but no one except Tom seems to like him. They could easily just not invite him over all the time.

4) What happened to Kendall's children? I would have asked before last episode what happened to Marcia but she finally showed up on Sunday, although there's no explanation why she's so sour to Logan.

5) Aren't they going to have trouble with the FCC and anti-monopoly legislation if they own the Pierces' company?

I can partially answer, R263.

No. 3: they are family orientated. My family is like that. She invites a sister she hates to all the holiday dinners. It’s just the way some families are.

No. 5: maybe, But honestly, the anti-monopoly legislation was ripped-up years ago. Just ask Exxon-Mobil, or Macy’s, and so forth.

We saw Kendall's kids in episode 2. They don't live with him so they are only occassionally relevant to the story.

[Quote]huge amounts of money his father has given him already (or that he inherited from his mother? He seems richer than the other siblings.

I think you underestimate the cost of this type of high class Manhattan real estate. The siblings all live in very expensive places and throw around a lot of money. I mean Kendall bought a building of apartment units this season!

Utterly riveting episode. But at times painful to watch. The Roys were low class trash in the comparatively genteel Pierces' home. I guess we needed a reminder of who they really are, behind the wealth and scenery. Marcia was drunk. Bet she talked to the biographer.

Cherry Jones was, as always, magnificent. On the nose? Yes, but when you're about to change your whole family's destiny for good, you kind of have to be. I didn't fault her for that at all.

Nice to see Mark Linn-Baker after all this time. I hope his character shows up again soon. Maybe with Shiv. Actually any of these people could become a part of the show. The actress playing Naomi is excellent.

I have to say, I didn't "get" Logan getting his deal until the phone call was explained in this thread. He only said (yelled) "You're damn right!" Logan calling Gregory "Ichabod Crane" was my LOL moment of the episode but I also thought it was Logan's way of saying Greg's congratulations were misplaced. This deal is FAR from closed.

[quote]The Roys were low class trash in the comparatively genteel Pierces' home.

Yeah, sometimes I'm a little surprised by this, considering the access they would have had to the best universities. The Roys don't know shit about Shakespeare. When Kendall was asking Naomi if she was a "poetess", it made me cringe.

I rewatched The Big Short the other night and Jeremy Strong looked like he'd be a hot fuck in that movie.

[quote] Yeah, sometimes I'm a little surprised by this, considering the access they would have had to the best universities.

I would be surprised if any of the kids did that well in college, given that culture is not something their father seems to value. I would guess that even if they did go to places of higher education it would have been places like Wharton, and they got degrees in business or business administration (like Trump did), and that they would have largely partied (especially Roman).

One thing that's weird about this show compared to most other TV dramas is that the writers seem to want us not to know much about the family members' backgrounds, even a season and a half in. We still do not know where anyone went to college, how Tom and Shiv met, who Connor's mother is and what happened to her, how Logan and Marcia met, who Marcia really is, etc. I'm not sure why the showrunners are so set on doing this, but it seems to be a big part of their overall strategy.

I thought Ichabod Crane was a reference to the Headless Horseman (not that Ichabod was headless). Maybe it was an indirect way of calling Tom headless?

Ichabod Crane was a tall skinny male character in the Washington Irving story, much as Greg(ory) is tall and skinny. I think that's all there is to Logan's reference.

[quote] Tom's parents are lawyers in Minneapolis,

Saint Paul, not Minneapolis.

Believe it or not, if you're from there, there is a real difference between the two cities.

I was confused as I thought the Ichabod Crane reference was meant to be a comment on Greg's attractiveness.

Ichabod 2.0, portrayed by the breathtaking Tom Mison.

But given his age, Logan probably meant this Disney version. Definitely looks more like Greg. 😂

Only Dataloungers would think Logan's reference to "Ichabod Crane" would refer to Johnny Depp.

r276 I actually thought he was referring to Mison and I learned Depp had previously played that part only ten minutes ago. I was too young when that movie came out. 🤷‍♂️

Why would a character in his 70s be referring to a depiction of a character in a 2013 supernatural drama series rather than in the classic story it is based on?

Do you think Logan Roy somehow also watches "Riverdale" and "Supernatural"?

Why not? Even Trumpian pigs sometimes contain multitudes.

Maybe he was thinking of Jeff Goldblum.

r280 Oh my god, why didn't THAT turn up in my Google search? Hot damn, he's gorgeous!

R272, honest question: so why would the writers have Tom’s parents live in St. Paul instead of Minneapolis?

Why not? There are hundreds of thousands of people who are from Saint Paul.

Loni Anderson is from Saint Paul, and so is Garrison Keillor, and Peter Krause, and Richard Dean Anderson, and so was the late Warren Burger, and the late Harry Blackmun, and the late Mitch Hedberg. Why not this character too?

But don't you think that makes it sound like it was written by an SJW?

In the episode where Shiv and Tom have dinner with Roman and Tabitha, Shiv makes a reference to Tom's "farmer's build" or something like that. He's tall and has an interesting face and I think at least a little sexy. I also don't think he's stupid, he's shown some cunning and cleverness in certain situations. They've also humanized him this season, I think, particularly in the "Boar on the Floor!" episode.

But yes, Shiv clearly did pick someone who will do what she says.

[quote]I'm a little surprised by this, considering the access they would have had to the best universities. The Roys don't know shit about Shakespeare. When Kendall was asking Naomi if she was a "poetess", it made me cringe.

To me, they are like the Trump kids. Went to good schools (via money) but didn't learn shit.

Roman wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the real world. Especially because he’s family. He’s just too ignorant and unstable.

r284: as I also said in that other thread (but which you did not also quote, for some reason): "Self-appointed Language Police Officers do not interest me. This [i.e. Datalounge] is not an Oberlin College safe space."

And by the way, your attempt to harass me on one thread for what I posted on another is an absolutely pathetic tactic.

R213 - Good one! 😂

For “Controlina,” R213? Give me a fucking break.

R290 Controlina, living up to the name.

LOL, this is going just the way I've suspected: Greg is MUCH smarter than any of them think, but playing dumb and naive. He's going to bump them off, figuratively, one by one, until he's the last one standing.

Last week Kendall literally shate the bed and now he's back to his old, cocksure self? Did shitting himself snap him out of his depression?

"you just don't hear about syphilis anymore - it's the my space of STDs." - I laughed pretty hard at that one.

I think Kendall is just trying to do whatever his father needs him to do. That wasn't cocksure at all. I did love, however, when Logan smacked the shit out of Roman and Kendall SHOUTED at his dad, "don't you fucking touch him!". You know, I have a pretty strong feeling that this wasn't the first time Roman's been backhanded by his father. This episode was outstanding.

r290 = Controllina, still fuming her will has not been obeyed

Well, whaddaya know? I was right! Ignore-dar reveals r290 actually [bold]IS[/bold] Controllina!

ROTFLMAO!!!

Too bad. I like Holly Hunter. Hope she's not gone for good.

And BTW, AFAIC, the only attractive women on this show are Logan's wives and Connor's gf, Roman's gf, Kendall's wife, and Holly Hunter. Snook is not attractive no matter what you boys say about her, and neither are any of the Roy men, for that matter.

Good thing I love the plot, 'cause there's precious little eye candy.

R297

Both Strong and Culkin are attractive.

I think Ken is attractive.

I think both Kendall and Tom are attractive, and Sarah Snook has an unbelievably sexy ass for a woman.

Logan HAD done this before: to Kendall's son last season, remember? I think that's why Kendall was so quick to rush to Roman's defense.

Cherry Jones was great. It's been hard to believe anyone could read Logan's beads that way, given how fearsome he is one on one, but she really told him and Rhea off. I guess I'm a little confused because I had thought, despite her last name, Rhea Jarrell was also in the Pierce family, but I guess she's not if she can be fired so easily.

Kendall is still in melancholic hatchet-man mode, as shown by his abuse he delivered the lawyers on the plane and also his pushing the most callous response to the scandal. He realizes his father will never promote him to the top slot, and all he can do is be useful by threatening people--but he was absolutely wrong on how to handle the scandal,. and Shiv was absolutely right. She is still as much a monster as any of the Roys were (her reference to the woman Tom was flirting with as being "a real person with a face" was chilling--obviously she did not consider the actor she fucked a few episodes back a human being at all), but I do like the writers are making her out to be so much more clever than her siblings.

I loved last week’s show to death, but the first 40 minutes this week was a real slog. I mean, just inside the weeds horrible.

The last 10 minutes was strong, but overall, this was a bad episode.

The season started off strong but each episode is getting progressively worse. The most recent episode was beyond boring. Lots and lots of talking. More talking. No action.

R303

I think their previous episode was the best of the serious. Show can be boring, but it's much better this season. And episode 5 was the highlight.

Oh, fuck off, R295/R296. Jesus, you two crybaby pieces of shit wouldn’t fare all too well in Germany where you can be corrected on practically everything. And they’re usually right.

I happen to have inside access to this show. I’ll give you one tidbit before-in next Sunday’s episode there’s a random comment about Rhea/Logan from Roman that actually reveals who the blonde lady in the main title sequence is.

THR interview with Brian Cox. Totally upends my perception of what Logan is thinking. I feel like he's playing his kids but Cox doesn't believe that.

Along those lines, going back a few episodes, do you think Logan's offer to Shiv to be his successor was sincere?

Everybody says in relationship to Shiv, "He's playing her along." I don't think that's true for one second. I think he genuinely believes that she could be a possible [successor] because she's quite clearly his favorite child and he quite clearly adores his daughter. He's tolerant of her idiot husband and he's quite happy to throw him to the sharks because he feels that he is an opportunist. He can see through everybody, but he also understands how things operate. And that's the problem: So he genuinely thinks "Oh yes, my daughter [will be my successor]," and Shiv's problem is that she can't keep her big mouth shut. She's a hopeless poker player.

R297, Hunter isn’t gone. She’s in the next three episodes.

Good to know -- thanks, R307!

I like this show a lot but people comparing it to The Sopranos is a bit ridiculous

R309 - “I like this show a lot but people comparing it to The Sopranos is a bit ridiculous”

I’m with you R309. Succession is decent, but it is no The Sopranos. The awards and accolades for The Sopranos speak for themselves.

Uhhh, R310, Succession is only eligible for Emmys starting this year and it won its first last weekend (for main original title theme music). There is a chance it could win Best Drama over Game of Thrones this weekend.

No way in hell GoT is losing Drama Series R311. Succession's best chance of a win is writing because it is objectively the strongest written show and was nominated at WGA for Best New Series and Best Drama Series, proving the writing industry respects it. McKay also has an outside chance to win directing if GoT vote splits between The Long Night and The Iron Throne but that's a very long shot.

Next year though, Succession looks poised to dominate Emmy nominations. With BLL having that messy, low stakes season, The Handmaid's Tale becoming a full blown soap opera, and unless Westworld can regain the magic of Season 1, Succession would probably position itself to the clear alternative to The Crown. I'm thinking Emmys noms for Cox, Snook, Strong, Culkin, Hunter, Macfadyen, and maybe even Jones if she decides to push this instead of THT are all possible.

R311, I think the chances of Succession beating Game of Thrones for Best Drama are small. Thrones won 10 Emmys at that weekend ceremony to Succession’s 1. Game over.

Do you think they will pick up SAG awards?

I think they definitely have a shot at Best Ensemble of a Drama Series.

Fisher Stevens looked like he's in his 70s! (Though he is 56.)

ITA with r302. Watching from DVR, I fell asleep twice. The ending, from the backhand on, was powerful.

Greg had some superb lighting this episode. Shiv had an accent slip in her scene with Rhea. Tom had a couple as well.

Aaron Sorkin admits he LOVES Succession!

Fisher Stevens is ugly. Always has been.

Greg had superb lighting? Huh?

[quote] Do you think they will pick up SAG awards?

This year? Maybe.

Next year they'll be up against "The Crown," though, so their chances that year are very slim (especially for Best Actress and Best Ensemble).

R311 - “Uhhh, [R310], Succession is only eligible for Emmys starting this year and it won its first last weekend (for main original title theme music). There is a chance it could win Best Drama over Game of Thrones this weekend.”

Uhhh, R311 = Cast or crew member of Succession”.

As I mentioned, Succession is decent. But in no way in hell is it going to win Best Drama over Game of Thrones. Betcha’ a nickle.

r310

[quote] Betcha’ a nickle.

If you predict as well as you spell, I'll take that bet.

Why Roman is so fucked up sexually? He joked about being sexually abused by Connor in the first season, and he obviously still traumatized by his childhood fights with Kendall. He was unusually genuine when he talked about this cage story in season one. Maybe something else happened between him and Kendall?

Roman also had a throwaway line in the first season about fucking the babysitter. I think the cage story was discovered to be a mastermind of Logan's, pitting his kids against each other at an early age. The fact that Roman enjoyed being locked up in a cage and pretending to eat dog food says a lot about his current humiliation kinks. Been there a long time. I find Roman fascinating.

I think we're going to find out more about Roman's past in the next few episodes. His (and Kendall's and Shiv's) mother Caroline appears in this Sunday's episode.

Roman and his British mummy will share a scene or two in the next episode so perhaps there will be some illumination.

"You're the one who's cunt-struck."

Now we know the equivalent to "dickmatized."

Jeremy Strong (Kendall) really is a fine actor. His scene in the waiter's family kitchen was amazing. I love how he can make all expression drain out of his face.

Why would Siobhan and Roman call their mother "Mom" rather than "Mum"? I thought they were raised in the UK.

I like to think that Roman’s remark about “Sally Anne and the summer of the horses” finally identifies the Sharon Stone type lounging by the pool in the opening title sequence. Because it sure ain’t Lady Caroline.

Logan and Kendall's relationship are fascinating. I wonder why Logan decided to torture him - because he implied he is an old fool with Rhea or because he doesnt want to see him happy with a woman?

I think it was both, R330.

Lady Caroline was vile to make Logan choose between the “Summer Palace” or Christmas with the kids. She knew he’d choose the fucking house.

What makes it worse is that she did it because she wants them to know he would choose the property over them, yet she has no interest in them. Didn't want to hear what was on Kendall's mind, eased out the house before they woke up so that she didn't have to deal with them. No wonder the Roy kids are a mess.

What makes it worse is that she did it because she wants them to know he would choose the property over them, yet she has no interest in them. Didn't want to hear what was on Kendall's mind, eased out the house before they woke up so that she didn't have to deal with them. No wonder the Roy kids are a mess.

Yeah, she’s a horrible mother. She served them pigeon for dinner. And her husband’s name is Rory.

As soon as this deal is over, the children should refuse to see Caroline for Christmas. What could she do? It's an informal agreement (I cannot imagine there is a contract), and they are adults: she cannot force them.

I am glad next issue will give some real attention finally to Marcia. We know she is unhappy in her marriage, and that she is a force to be reckoned with. If Shiv tells her Logan is having an affair with Rhea, she will take action.

I assume Rhea is scheming in order to get the top job herself, and not just doing Logan's bidding.

I’m sure cousin Greg has additional copies of that cruise ship dirt. Hysterical scene between Greg and Tom.... Marking the file “secret”. Lanky, goofy, dorky, and adorable Greg . I want to fuck him.

[quote]As soon as this deal is over, the children should refuse to see Caroline for Christmas.

I don't think she'd care. She already got what she wanted. More $$$ and showing them their father values a house over spending holidays with them.

Yeah, that was just quite a dick move from Logan making Kendall sit in the family's house and then talk about how broken up the parents were once they were back in the car. He prefers Kendall a mess because then he's likely to do dad's bidding.

[quote]because he implied he is an old fool with Rhea or because he doesnt want to see him happy with a woman?

Seeing him with Naomi is what set him off, I think. Kendall coming to him to suggest Rhea might be playing Logan kind of indicated that Kendall was starting to think for himself again and I feel like Logan believes Naomi had something to do with that emboldened attitude. But seeing Kendall try to talk about it with his mother only to have her flatly refuse him was pretty heartbreaking. I can't help but feel for the guy.

And yeah, Rhea has to be angling for the job herself, right?

Absolutely she is.

[quote] I like to think that Roman’s remark about “Sally Anne and the summer of the horses” finally identifies the Sharon Stone type lounging by the pool in the opening title sequence. Because it sure ain’t Lady Caroline.

Maybe they'll explain someday how Connor and Roman went from being about five years apart in age in the credits sequence to being twenty years apart on the actual show. And maybe they'll also explain what happened to the second daughter (since there are two in the credit sequence: a brunette, and a redhead who looks like Shiv).

r342

they are 4 years apart in real life

[quote] they are 4 years apart in real life

No they are not. They are actually 26 years apart in real life.

Alan Ruck, who plays Connor, is 63 in real life (he was born in 1956).

Kieran Culkin, who plays Roman, is 37 in real life (he was born in 1982).

I don't think the credits are meant to be taken that literally.

Though Connor is definitely meant to be younger than the actor's age, as we know Logan is 80 so don't think he knocked up Connor's mom at 16.

Their English mother is such a horrible, selfish cunt, just like their father.

[quote]And yeah, Rhea has to be angling for the job herself, right?

And Logan has the nerve to call Kendall cunt-struck.

how is the boring as fuk show picked up for another season????? good god

I'm finding the show a bit boring.

I dont find it boring at all.

R342, there aren’t two daughters in the opening just Shiv. There’s a 12 year old Shiv (the one with the white ribbon in her hair leading a pony). Then there’s a flash of 14/15 year old Shiv. And then there’s 17/18 year old Shiv standing with her brothers and then sitting at a table.

[Quote]Their English mother is such a horrible, selfish cunt, just like their father.

Yes, this episode did a good job showcasing why the kids aren't close with their mother. Its not just something that can be blamed on their father, she is an emotionally closed off woman. You feel so bad how Kendall wants to open up to her and she just isn't interested.

R352

She looked almost scared. I think she can't deal with real raw emotions.

Well, R353, she IS English and from the upper classes.

This shit is putting me to sleep. Can we get a gay storyline already? I’d love to see Tom and Cousin Gregory going at it. Or Rome and that hunky personal trainer. They need some kind of action here.

When Gerri said she was going to dig up some dirt on Roman, didn't she find out he got some handjobs from his personal trainer? I got the impression they were referring to the guy in S1.

r356

wasn't she just joking when she said that?

I don’t think she was. Yes, it had to have been the trainer in S1. They hinted at some sort of physical transaction between them.

Quick, writers: you're putting r355 to sleep! Step up your game! He wants GAY ACTION!

I love Succession and look forward to every episode like it's Christmas but this thing needs a full-time Alexis like, yesterday. It's Job 1 for Season 3.

It's not Dynasty, hon.

Dataloungers always want to make everything trashier.

Those are the same posters who crow it is too boring r362.

This season has been brilliant television.

Isn't Holly Hunter sort of an Alexis?

She is now!

Wow, Kendall and Roman's abilities to provide maximum cringe are never ending.

This show would be better if the actors didn't hesitate so much in their dialogue.

Kendall rapping is something I never expected to see. This show knows how to surprise me.

Also Uncle Ewan being worth 250mil, doesn't that make it confusing why Greg and his mother were poor and desperate for money at the beginning of the series?

I guess he is cheap bastard who doesn't help his family.

And how is Ewan worth 250 mill? From his shares of Royco? Seems hypocritical for him to criticize Greg for working there then.

I have a feeling that Ewan is the backer for the person who won't accept a hush agreement over the cruise line issue.

Yes those were the hints r370, it would make sense.

Also seeing Kendall go from replacing his addiction with the girl to discarding her as soon as his dad didnt approve. Nice way to show even as he is outwardly improving he is still a complete mess.

That dick pic he sent to the sober but drunk and high friend of Rhea's at Cherry Jones' estate has to come up again. That can't have just been silly filler. Rhea is going to get a hold of that.

Ewan is definitely the backer—he alluded to the cruise line mess in his last exchange with Logan, and he has no other way of knowing it. He hasn’t been part of any of the corporate strategizing. He only would know if he were the mystery backer.

Kendall rapping was so cringeworthy. A throwback to the series premiere, when he was rapping in the backseat of his limo on the way to work.

So Roman was sexually assaulted by a camp councilor when he was 12? Yikes.

I think Marcia will be the Alexis of S3. I think she’s walked out on Logan and reappears after he’s croaked. The kids will be, like, you ain’t getting nothing, you and dad were estranged and she’ll be like, I was just spending time with my son, bitches.

...you actually take the zingers that come out of Roman's mouth seriously r374?

Talking ridiculous shit is what he does.

Interesting little hints were dropped this episode about the characters' pasts. Did we know Connor's mother had been put in the loony bin? And all the talk about the mysterious Roy sister Rose, and how her brothers Logan and Ewan feel Logan is responsible for her death, was not mentioned before either.

The calls for an Alexis figure to be added to the show are hilarious. Those of you asking for one probably want one added to "The Crown" as well.

R377, I don’t remember another extended mention of Connor’s mother outside of “Sad Sack WASP Trap” in season one, and there weren’t any specifics about what had happened to her.

I don't know, R376, this is like the fourth or fifth time that Roman has made a joke about being molested as a kid. And no, we've never heard about Connor's mother being institutionalized before. Would explain a lot.

[quote]how her brothers Logan and Ewan feel Logan is responsible for her death

Ewan directly tells Logan that he wasn't responsible for her death, only that Logan felt he was. I thought the scenes between Logan and Ewan tonight were fascinating. The comment about Logan's bird watching journal as a kid and how Ewan would cross out the ones he didn't believe. And yes, he has to be the backer. I get the sense that Logan feels his brother never looked out for him. Let's not forget the scars all over Logan's back.

So did Kendall kill the guy who Logan was forced to go see and apologize to in England? Is that why he brought Kendall and Kendall cried? Did Logan take the blame for it - to cover for Kendall?

Maybe it was in Season 1 - but the visit to the dead guys family made no sense without background.

Yes, r380. Kendall garrotted him with piano wire. They just didn't tell us or show us, but it absolutely happened.

I refuse to take the post at r380 seriously.

R382 - Ditto.

Thank you R381. Perhaps I’m naive - but I’m assuming that is a real response.

R382 / R383 - why is that a bad question? It’s just a glaring question for anyone who hasn’t seen every episode. The episode made no sense to someone who hadn’t seen what happened. Clearly Kendall felt guilty about something - but I had no idea why.

Why doesn't Jennifer have any problems with sand mites?

Clearly Greg caught crabs and he is trying to blame the sand.

Another great episode. At times it felt weirdly disjointed, with one talky scene cutting right to another one with no transition. But I think it's because they were trying to cram a lot in. And so many great scenes. I love it any time all four siblings are in a room together. And the scene with Logan and Greg in the men's room was just terrific. We actually got a more human side of Logan which is fascinating.

And the scene with Marcia and Rhea. Loved the way it was shot. Marcia came across very earthy and voluptuous while Rhea seemed fragile and birdlike.

Even the secondary characters get these great arcs to work with. It's so fun to watch.

[quote]And the scene with Logan and Greg in the men's room was just terrific. We actually got a more human side of Logan which is fascinating.

I took this as manipulation on Logan's part, an attempt to screw his brother rather than a genuine interest in Greg's welfare.

Agree r388.

R387, fun fact: the bathroom scene was shot in the Succession soundstage’s men’s room at Silvercup East, weeks after they returned from shooting in Dundee.

R384, here is the backstory for the waiter.

In the season one finale, Kendall, riding a high after delivering to his father a bear hug takeover letter from a group of investors that included his pal Stewy and his father's nemesis, Sandy Furness, approached a waiter at his sister's wedding about getting cocaine. The waiter said he had a cocaine connection but that Kendall would have to drive them to pick up the drugs. Kendall agreed. While driving, a deer appeared in the middle of the road, and the waiter sharply yanked the steering wheel so that they'd miss the deer -- which they did, but their car went directly into a river, instead. Kendall fled the scene of the accident and the waiter drowned.

Logan had yelled at this waiter the night before the wedding during a big reception, and the waiter's parents sold that story to one of Sandy Furness's tabloids and blamed Logan for their son's death -- they claimed that he caused the waiter such psychological distress that he drove himself into the river.

That person is trolling you r391.

THANK YOU R391. That’s all I needed to know. Such paranoid weirdos. Why would anybody - or one persistent person - think I’m trolling? It’s a legitimate question about a major plot point that - unless you happened to see those few minutes of one episode - a lot of people have no idea about.

Now that I understand it though, it’s a really stupid plot device. Why would Kendall get so emotional that a guy got into an accident that he didn’t cause? Even if the guy was driving him to get drugs, it’s not like it’s his fault. Especially since Kendall seems to have little true guilt over his drug use - continuing to use, offering Naomi Pence within minutes, drinking. Illogical that he’s having a severe mental breakdown because of the kids accident. It’s not equivalent to Chappaquiddick - which is what’s been implied. The waiter caused it - unlike MaryJo Kopechne who was killed because Ted took a huge risk while drunk driving.

AND how is it even vaguely relevant that Logan yelled at him the day before? That someone would kill themselves over getting yelled at is ridiculous.

In any case, thanks again R391 - it’s been bugging me this whole season.

[quote]Why would Kendall get so emotional that a guy got into an accident that he didn’t cause?

Umm, perhaps because Kendall didn't attempt to save the guy, he left the scene, and he never called the cops? I'd certainly feel guilty. YMMV.

Really? Some idiot who barely watches the show wants to take over the thread as he bitches about not knowing stuff because your fucking ass didnt watch.

Bitch, it was the season finale of the first season, probably the most important episode of the show so far. This is not some Law and Order shit where you drop in and watch an episode here or there.

No one wants to listen to you drone on with questions when you should just go watch the fucking episode..

Logan did more than yell at him, he ordered him to be fired from the gig.

R395! Truth!

R384 & R393 - Get it together, and do your goddamn homework.

[quote]Umm, perhaps because Kendall didn't attempt to save the guy,

He did attempt to go down and retrieve the guy, but he had to come up for air. We could see that the waiter was probably already dead or unconscious when they were underwater.

[Quote] Did we know Connor's mother had been put in the loony bin?

I loved getting that nugget on Connor's mom. Logan's first marriage is something we still know nothing about.

I hope they continue the storyline between Roman and that Eduard guy, I was liking where it was going

I hope they continue the storyline between Roman and that Eduard guy, I was liking where it was going

No matter how much Roman gets the hots for Gerri, I still think he's gay under all his quirks.

There is so much they can roll out yet. This could go on for many seasons. The writing is really good - as is the plotting. Took a while, but I’m hooked.

I didn’t like that Logan seemed to kind of impulsively appoint Rhea after Shiv talked to him. Someone like that would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to appoint a successor. Unless he knows he is lying and expects to pull the offer after the shareholders meeting. One of the few plot points that seemed off so far - but I’ll withhold judgment to see how it develops.

Jesse Armstrong, the show’s creator/showrunner, has stressed that he doesn’t like dragging stories out too long and so Succession won’t have multiple seasons. I think next season will be its last and will concern all the infighting which follows Logan’s death.

I would put money this show goes at least 5 seasons.

Prepare to lose some money, R405.

I would peg Kendall's emotions at being fear more than guilt. He left the guy in the submerged car, his people know what really happened and so does his father.

R403, he appointed Rhea CEO because he knows the cruise line shit is about to hit the fan, and he doesn't want any of the family in charge when that happens. Shiv agreed, and that's why there was no power struggle. Rhea will be the one shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic, and then after that mess is cleared up, she'll be removed.

Shiv let it go too easily. Also there is something about Shiv's trip to London a few episodes back, she had arrived home from London, no explanation of why she was there. At the time I thought it might have something to do with Kendall's involvement with the waiter that died - any ideas?

R408, that's a very plausible explanation.

What we were told was that Logan was unaware of the cruise story breaking, it was a plot point that Gerri was withholding it.

Don't forget Logan was told he had to name a successor by the next board meeting now that the Pierce deal fell through.

It was Shiv who wanted Rhea to be in that position to get hit with the scandal, not Logan. I mean right before he names Rhea he was leaning against it before Shiva encouraged him to go that way. I don't think it was meant to something other than that.

[quote] Why would anybody - or one persistent person - think I’m trolling?

Because you wrote this earlier:

[quote] So did Kendall kill the guy who Logan was forced to go see and apologize to in England? Is that why he brought Kendall and Kendall cried?

How could Kendall have possibly killed someone Logan later was forced to go see and apologize to in England? Do you think Logan apologized to a corpse?

That's why everyone thinks you're trolling.

My theory: Rhea is still somehow involved with the Pierces and her goal as the CEO will be to devalue Waystar Royco stock so that PGM can take them over, instead of the other way round.

I think the jury's out on whether Logan knows he's putting Rhea into the line of fire with the cruise line stuff. Yes, Geri was trying to withhold some of the developments ... but we've seen before that Logan is more up to speed on things than his minions assume. He would also, presumably, be suspicious about Shiv's about-face on Rhea and assume she has an ulterior motive. It also could be why he moved so quickly, almost impulsively, to name Rhea after his conversation with Shiv -- he sussed out that Shiv wants Rhea to be the sacrifice, and he admired Shiv for playing it that way because it showed more cleverness than his children are often able to summon.

Apologies R412 . I now understand my mistake - poor wording for which I deserve scorn. Meant to say “whose family Logan was forced to go see”. And again appreciate the plot point clarification. The show really doesn’t fill in backstory for people who just joined - as a show that is only in its second season probably should.

I think R408 - and R414 re: his interpretation of Shivs move - is likely right. Even though he isn’t supposed to know details about the current negotiations, he is aware that there is a high risk that shit is going to hit the fan.

Armstrong is an Ianucci protege and Ianucci ended The Thick of It when the story was over. Armstrong is almost certainly going to do with the same thing Succession.

R416, So Armstrong will end the story when the story is over?

Wow. Thanks for the brilliant newsflash.

I think Succession should go at least 5 seasons or more. There's more stories to tell about this dysfunctional rich family, it's kind of like Dallas or Dynasty which became huge hits. HBO will be missing GOT so Succession would be a good replacement.

Why do these English show-runners like to end their series in less than 3 three seasons? Fleabag,, Penny Dreadful, etc.

[quote] I took this as manipulation on Logan's part, an attempt to screw his brother rather than a genuine interest in Greg's welfare.

Brian Cox has said in an interview that viewers keep thinking of Logan as much more manipulative and deceitful than he believes the character is, at least when it comes to matters concerning his kids. He sees the character as very mercurial, but is usually pretty honest with his family members. The problem is he can mean something when he says it, but then change his mind 180 degrees a few days later. Cox believed, for example, that he really meant it when he told Shiv earlier this season he considers her the smartest and wanted her to succeed him. But he didn't want her to succeed him just then, or announce it, and her haste to announce it to others turned him against her.

[quote]The problem is he can mean something when he says it, but then change his mind 180 degrees a few days later.

That's exactly what a friend of mine says about her sociopathic ex-husband.

uh... you say awesome a lot

No, R417, Armstrong will end this series when he's done with the story. He's not going to keep it going to juice HBO.

You do a nice impression of an obtuse cunt, though.

The hip hop thing this episode really drove home how Kendall is inspired by James Murdoch. Was looking up an interview and of course someone asked him about Succession, which he claims he doesn't watch.

Reminder in real life James Murdoch, considered the smart brother, ends up getting bypassed i favor of his brother Lachlan.

Yeah, they talked about the James Murdoch inspiration on The Watch recap of the episode.

So Kendall is James Murdoch. Who is Lachlan? Shiv?

"Armstrong will end this series when he's done with the story. He's not going to keep it going to juice HBO."

Ianucci left "Veep" which he created and they did a couple more seasons after that with a new showrunner. I highly doubt HBO gave Armstrong sole authority over when "Succession" will end.

Which Succession character are you?

I think Shiv is much more like James Murdoch than Kendall.

I really dont watch latest episode. I spoiled it on twitter, and somehow it killed my interest. Kendall rapping? Really?

Dont want to watch...

Thanks for sharing, r429/430, and especially for sharing twice.

R431

You're welcome.

Kendall rapping was stupid. One month he’s crying and suicidal. The next he is super confident rapper? His character is a little inconsistent.

Super confident? Did you watch the the side plot with his girl?

One bad look from his Dad and he went from obsessed with her to making his people make her leave.

And substituting drugs with people is very common addict behavior, it made total sense.

^^ I was going to say the same thing, R434.

Kendall was high and over the moon because he met someone... until she kept saying "awesome."

R429, the Kendall rapping is actually really bad — and really good.

Everyone in this family is so damaged that it’s believable Kendall would not just try to rap, but rap an entire song with Logan lyrics. It was insane and embarrassing and cringeworthy, but also really good lol

The confidence it takes to do that rap seems inconsistent with his absence of self esteem. It seemed more like a Kanye move - insanely overconfident.

R433 it's the coke

Ahh - that might make sense R438

Great episode! Next week -- the finale.

BTW, Shiv is ugly and she has cankles.

It is hard to believe Tom could be so useless before Congress and that they won't jettison him. How could he have ever risen as far as he did if he's such a loser?

I'm worried about Roman and Kendall. it was brutal how Logan totally threw him under the bus.

Tom is one of the few unrealistic characters. I get he’s the comic relief - but no way would he be given that level of authority.

I didn’t like the Shiv actress at first - but now I think she is the best actor other than the guy who plays Logan

Blood sacrifice - Tom or Kendall? This was a stellar episode. My favorite burn of the night - they call Gil Meth Head Santa, he rarely delivers.

[quote] I'm worried about Roman and Kendall.

Mary!

Tom would be the obvious sacrifice.

Jeremy Strong is so hot!

They think Greg is going to be the sacrifice...but he has them by the short hairs!

I just can't imagine the "blood sacrifice" would be one of Logan's children. He is weirdly loyal to them--he wants to keep them close to him so he can fuck them over.

Tom might indeed seem to make the most sense to be the "blood sacrifice." He's the closest to the cruise ship line, and it may be Logan wants to get rid of him so as to punish Shiv for her bad judgement earlier this season and to remove a support from her that is separate from himself. (he may especially want to tie Shiv closer to him because he lost Rhea this episode, and it's been strongly implied Marcia also left him--so whom does he have left as a confidante if not Shiv?) But if this were true, I doubt Logan would confide he needs a blood sacrifice to Shiv.

I think the best bet, though, is that it is Greg. First of all, "blood sacrifice" suggests someone close to Logan is a blood sense--but as I said earlier, I don;t think it could be one of his children. It would also make the most dramatic sense, because Tom gave up his chance at Ewan's money this episode for the sake of Logan--and if Logan were to throw him to the wolves it all would have been for nothing. Moreover,we still have to see Greg use the "Chekhov's gun" a few episodes back of the saved audio recording of Tom admitting to the destruction of the records and the few written records he saved from the bonfire. So he could use them to implicate Tom if he thinks Logan is going to throw him under the bus, which would be dramatically very interesting. It would also allow him to save face with his grandfather, who would love to see Logan embarrassed further.

I thought the blood sacrifice was Roman. But, he's alive next week.

There is a still out there of Gregory speaking to the Congressional committee. Its on the website where I get my HBO to promote this episode. I think Greg is definitely going to take the stand and throw a molotov cocktail in the works.

Can’t believe next week is the season finale. I’ll have to find a new show to ward off Sunday night dread.

[quote]Tom is one of the few unrealistic characters. I get he’s the comic relief - but no way would he be given that level of authority.

What level of authority does he have?

Tom was running the whole cruise and theme park division before being bumped to now running the news division. Pretty big jobs for such an incompetent.

Tom has his authority the same way the siblings have theirs, good old fashioned nepotism.

He only became so high-up in the company because he was engaged to Shiv.

But Shiv and Kendall -and even Ro - have plausible managerial skills. Tom is a Michael Scott level buffoon - a more appropriate character for a sitcom than an otherwise realistic drama.

Eh, Roman has been made to be more buffoonish than Tom, to the point that he literally needed to start over with basic management training. What was that line, Roman wouldn't be trusted to run a burger king if he had a different last name.

The show has shown that Tom isn't clueless in his business, when he started in news there was the sideplot of him updating the business to run more efficient. I get it, last night's episode focused on him tanking the congressional hearing, but to be fair the character *is* directly responsible for the clean up attempt. He is more directly implicated in the mess.

People who think Tom is unrealistic have not spent much time in large corporations.

Totally agree, r457. I have worked with my fair share of "Toms" and it still amazes me how far up the corporate ladder they often get before imploding.

I thought the “next week on” clip they showed suggested that Logan would be offering himself as the sacrifice.

In case people didnt get the reference. The Roman hostage subplot was based on an event in Saudi Arabia where people were held hostage at a Ritz Calrton in an "anti-corruption" plot.

the only problem I have with the show is that there is a lot of homoerotic humor and subtext for a show without any gay characters. I feel like if they can dig deep for their homophobic slurs (e.g. "bum boys"? who tf says that) they can give us some actual gay content

Greg got on my nerves this week. I keep waiting for his goofus act to turn around, but he was at his worst this week. I’ve given up on the idea that he had any plan or vision all along.

Thank you r10. Just started watching it and I'm hooked.

Tom's pink linen blazer is wondrously hideous.

Connor's girlfriend's reaction to the review was hilarious unexpected! I laughed out loud.

*hilariously

What is the name of the yacht?

The real yacht

I find myself looking forward to The Righteous Gemstones more than I do Succession.

Wow! Kendall had had enough!

Acting honors tonight go to Matthew MacFadyen and Sarah Snook.

Tom is a shallow idiot, but like Kendall he had also finally been pushed too far.

Kendall was willing to go down until he realized the only way Logan would ever see his worth is for him to be a killer r470. When he realized that his Dad doesn't even respect him, that is something worst than prison.

[quote] R471: Acting honors tonight go to Matthew MacFadyen and Sarah Snook.

That is Tom and his wife, Shiv Roy. I looked it up since OP didn’t bother to, and I figured I’d save others from the bother.

Those last two minutes made the whole season.

Greg really did turn out to be team Kendall, like he said in season 1.

(Quote]Tom is a shallow idiot, but like Kendall he had also finally been pushed too far

Except of you really think about it, Tom was willing to put up with whatever from Shiv as long as his professional life is going strong, and it is only when his career was on the verge of going off a cliff that he stood up to her.

It was an interesting night--it was all about the core family members all going too far, which has been building all season. (Marcia already thought logan went too far by not telling her about rghea's succession, and has apparently left him).

Shiv went too far with Tom both romantically and in terms of the business, and he was ready to leave her.

Logan went too far with Kendall (if you'd been watching all season, you've probably been wondering when kendall was finally going to break from his father's constantly shitty treatment of him after the car accident).

And the whole family went too far with Greg. Greg clealy gave Kendall the documents in the cruise line case to implicate Logan, and the family (especially Roman) had been treating Greg so badly this episode it was finally enough.

They really hammered home how Greg has become one of them. He was nonplussed about seeing the huge yacht which surprised Kendall, and then Tom gave him shit for having opinions of different brands of champagne. He is no longer an outsider in this world. And he is more savvy than Tom, he saw the value in the documents, whereas Tom wanted that leverage destroyed.

I thought for Kendall the breaking point was actually Logan dismissing the dead boy as nothing. The event was nothing. Ken was working his own guilt up in order to convince himself the sacrifice was okay, and his father told him it was nothing.

The blonde woman who leaves Kendall on the yacht, was that his erstwhile drug-doing amorous business competitor? I am completely Blind to female faces and all names.

Yes, R480; Naomi Pierce.

Delicious season finale! Damn!

Things are set-up perfectly for season three. But that needs to be the last season... if season three ends with some "surprise shift" in the relationship between Dad and Ken, that would be dictionary definition of jumping the shark.

This show will probably end with Tom having a psychotic break and possibly hurting himself or someone else. The foreshadowing is very heavy with that character, especially the otherwise pointless “safe room” episode.

Watch him go loose with a gun at some point.

well didn't Logan tell him to be cutthroat in order to be in charge?

Disagree r483, there is enough potential in the show to keep going for a few more seasons. There are so many possibilities where you could take these characters. I am also curious what this show would look like in a world without Logan, would they actually kill him off and do a season without Brian Cox? Probably not, but I think that would be intriguing.

Cox must have been tremendous as Lear.

Cox was great in "L.I.E." from 2001, playing a creepy pedo who fathers/grooms a teenage boy (Paul Dano) who's struggling with his sexuality.

R487 Well, he's playing Lear in Succession, right?

I’m disappointed with Tom this season. Matthew Macfayden was hysterically funny that first season!

Logan put on a big show for everyone when he acted like he was willing to step down and they protested and insisted he stay on, even though his biggest shareholders wanted him out. I liked the slight smile and pride on Logan's face when Kendall 'killed'Him after he told him he did not have a killer instinct. Also when Shiv did not make the hard decision he said 'No' a few times out loud to himself. I took it to mean 'No you will not be the successor' because of that unwillingness. I think he was daring Shiv and Kendall to take him down to prove their ruthlessness and fitness to replace him as CEO. Its like Steve Jobs only respected employees that stood up to him. The rest he treated like shit.

Yes you can tell Logan was disappointed when he saw that Shiv wasn't willing to name the person who should take the fall, and he was proud of Kendall that he had the guts to stab him in the back.

I love how Kendall tore up the statement and tossed it on the table as he walked away - still thinking like a rapper with a very solid mic drop. God damn, but that entire moment was so satisfying. I was really worried Kendall was going to attempt to off himself even as I considered there's no way that Jesse Armstrong would write Jeremy Strong off this show - his performance this season has been phenomenal - so it was spine tingling when we heard "BUT" right before Ken destroys his dad. Great season finale.

One thing I did not fully understand: what would it have meant had Kendall taken the fall? I know he would have been expected to assume culpability and leave Waystar Royco, but would he have also likely gone to prison? And was there to be a payout for whomever took the fall?

I couldn't understand this during the show. If it meant having to go to prison and leave the firm, I couldn't understand why any of the Waystar higher-ups or the children would have agreed to have gone quietly. Tom and Greg were working in the cruise division, and so they would have had little choice; but to submit; but I just couldn't see why any of the children would agree to take the fall. What would be in it for them other than to have their father's approval (which even in this fucked-up family does not seem to be enough to allow someone to volunteer for prison)?

Also: how could they have believably ever made the case to the public it was Kendall 's (or Shiv's, or Roman's) responsibility when they did not even work in the cruise division?

And why was Connor acting like HE could take the fall, when my understanding is that he's the one child who does not even work for the Waystar Royco corporation?

[quote] I couldn't understand this during the show. If it meant having to go to prison and leave the firm, I couldn't understand why any of the Waystar higher-ups or the children would have agreed to have gone quietly.

I read it as ambiguous, they didn't spell out the consequences. Like prison wouldn't be a certainty. Kendall was the only one of the four seriously considered. Shiv didn't make sense for it. Kendall might have wanted to get out of the biz entirely and may have also saw it as just not a fmaily loyalty but as an atonement for his failings. I liked Logan's half-smirk at the end too. It almost could have been a test of 'killer instinct'? Kendall rose to the challenge.

[Quote]And why was Connor acting like HE could take the fall, when my understanding is that he's the one child who does not even work for the Waystar Royco corporation?

Connor is an idiot, everyone else was embarrassed at him for saying it.

[Quote]Also: how could they have believably ever made the case to the public it was Kendall 's

Kendall is incredibly high up in Waystar and apparently was a point person for the cruises division, they said that several times. He is a believable person to take the fall, just have to believe he okayed the cover up without telling his father.

And like r495Kendall was the only sibling seriously considered.

And no one can predict what the consequences will be. But Logan mentions in the episode that he sees some prison time as a possibility.

So then why did Logan think Kendall would submit quietly to taking the fall? What was in it for Kendall to risk prison other than his father's approval? He already is fairly rich, and has substantial shares in the company.

I am not asking because I think the writers were being illogical; I admit I may have missed some key information. And I know Kendall had been acting broken all season and had been acting as his father's lapdog.

Still, I don't yet see what Logan thought Kendall had to gain by agreeing to do this--it seemed like just too much to ask of any of his children, no matter how intimidated they are by him and how willing they are to prove their loyalty.

For the good of the company someone has to take the fall, I mean even you get some short stint in prison Kendall is still going to be a billionaire when he gets back out.

Plus obviously the big thing is Kendall killed a guy and Logan covered it up. Kendall directly says this, that maybe this is the punishment is deserves for that.

Thanks r498.

Great, phenomenal series! The end of the season was stunning!

Logan covered up the accident and Kendall tried and failed to grab control of the company in season 1. Am I remembering that right? Kendall owes his dad for those. Then the drug use and history. I feel like Kendall's kind of a disappointment. The favorite child and obvious heir who doesn't measure up. And he seeks the approval of dad (see Don Trump Jr) in a way that Roman at least finds pitiful.

Roman is the worst of the kids when it comes to being desperate for Logan's approval.

Kendall was willing to plot against his father in season 1, it was Roman who always caved and never has had the balls to stand against Logan. Even this season we see when Logan slaps the shit out of him, Roman is quick to try to assure his father it's okay and it didnt happen.

Roman is a pussy, that's been a defining character trait so far.

Roman is absolutely terrified of his father.

Love how Cox’s “Uh huh”s have multiple levels of meaning — none of them good for the person talking to him.

Good call, R502.

Logan: What the fuck was that? Shiv: Uh, I don't know. I think it's getting to people? The tension? Logan: He ate my fuckin' chicken. Shiv: Um hmm. Logan: So, what's next? Stick his cock into my potato salad?

Roman also caved during the vote of no confidence in season 1 and voted to keep his father ensconced as chairman and CEO.

Kendall was currently COO of Waystar and his position in season 1 was amorphous but presumably quite senior -- I'd assumed Kendall was president and Frank was COO prior to the no-confidence vote -- so it's possible the heads of all three divisions reported to him, and plausible that he'd have had an idea of what was going on at cruises or was personally involved in the clean-up.

Greg: What, exactly, are Greg sprinkles?

Roman: Greg sprinkles are a fantastic garnish to absolutely anyone seated at this table.

Greg: Oh, OK.

Roman: Like a Tom sundae with a perfect little Greg cherry on top.

The comedian and TV writer Demi Adejuyigbe wrote lyrics to the "Succession" theme song.

For the most part, the stories and plot lines are better than the terrible dialogue.

This is so like the Murdoch family situation. The News of the World was getting sued for hacking into the emails/voicemails of dead children, dead soldiers, celebrities, royalty, no one was off limits to these scumbags. They got caught so many times over the years and settled secretly. When questioned Murdoch said he knew nothing. I ALWAYS said, there is no way Murdoch's newspaper was settling various lawsuits worth tens of millions of dollars and he didn't know about it. He was either phenomenally fucking stupid (and shouldn't be running his company) or he was complicit. They even said something like that on Succession about Logan. Of course Murdoch retired when he was allowed to get away with the hacking it by the super fucking weak British politicians and the even fucking weaker British justice system

I mean the main inspiration for Succession has always been the Murdoch family.

The Murdochs and the Redstones, yes.

I liked this season but it's basically "Dynasty" with good scripts and acting. This entire season is basically about the family jetting around the world and private estates/retreats, trading barbs and playing power games. There was hardly any action taking the place within the corporate headquarters. Plus, the whole storyline with Rhea was very soapy.

I liked the big production budget giving us wealth porn rather than all the scenes in these office sets.

This season you got to tag along more with the lifestyle of a billionaire family.

Yeah - the wealth porn is really well filmed. But it’s interesting that you see it as they probably do - as simply a backdrop to the painfully unhappy, dysfunctional relationships and workaholism. There’s never a sense that it provides enjoyment - it’s just the venue of their personal drama.

Kendall: Did you ever think I could do the job?

Logan: You're not a killer. You need to be a killer

Touché Dad

I loved the scene a couple weeks ago where Greg says that he'll be OK, because even if he pissess off his Uncle he'll still get $5 million, and the rest of the family looks at him with a wonderful mix of horror and pity. “The poorest rich person in America,” “The weakest strong man at the circus,”

[quote] I liked this season but it's basically "Dynasty" with good scripts and acting.

If the champagne is too burnt for your taste, Miss Jarrell, don't drink it. The caviar, I trust, is not burnt.

This show is in now way anything like Dynasty. Just because its about rich people? The world of the Roys and the Murdochs and the Trumps affects the rest of us. It's a smartly written show and I have yet to witness Shiv and Marcia having a mud fight.

I found it hard to believe Shiv really wanted a threesome. It seemed more like a perverse test for Tom.

She probably did a threesome -- with another man!

R521 It did seem odd, not entirely off the wall, but.. And on the other hand it served to (continue to) expose Tom as a fraud, wanting something he really can't get, to fill shoes far larger than his feet of clay. The whole series "coheres" in this way with seemingly small or random details developing characters and advancing/foreshadowing the story.

That I would believe R522

Why is that hard to believe r521? Shiv is a sexually liberated character, why wouldn't she be done with a threesome?

That's the problem. Shiv and Tom aren't sexually compatible. She is into sex and done with casual fun, but he is a traditionalist when it comes to these things.

down with*

Tom is not a hippie, Shiv!!! He doesn't want dildos up his butt!

That was a great line r527. Though I am upset we didn't get that scene! I would have loved a scene of Shiv trying to get Tom to do anal play, you know the actors would have killed it too.

Remember Tom is from a traditional middle class background, and remember in season one he had a guy cum in his mouth... so Tom's complications are manifold.

"A guy" r529. He had his own cum in his mouth, much less exciting than you make it sound.

R530... oh right. He was loaded and took it as a dare... like every straight guy does that... he just wanted to fit it.

Huh? The girl gave him a blowie and kissed him afterwards so he got the semen back in his mouth. I mean that's the wildest sex story of Tom's life...which says it all (though maybe I am just a whore).

Tom screams gay. Would be a perfect closet case guy who doesn’t come out until he is 50. Sublimates it all into “success” - then realizes too late it means nothing and that he is miserable.

I thought Tom and Cousin Gregg would be getting into some homoerotic S&M sex play.

Logan and Kendall both knew exactly how things were going to end up on the boat, the rest was just theater to give Kendall time to accept the inevitability of his sacrifice. Kendall tried not to know, so he brought along Naomi, but Logan cut off that escape route. Then Kendall continued to flail and Logan patiently went along with him, watching as every one of Kendall's escape routes closed. Logan was counting on his understanding of his son's psychology. By the end of the trip, Kendall was a dead man walking and he appeared to accept his fate. No way out.

The only question is when did Ken decided to save himself. Was it after Greg basically said that it was shitty what Logan was doing, and Ken realized he had an ally.... and perhaps one last escape route that he hadn't considered before? That must have been one interesting flight home.

I find Kendall’s acting annoying. One note serious dead-eyed. I get some of it is character - but more and more seems like bad acting.

TIL that Kendall's drug-buddy/girlfriend is Mark Ronson's half-sister and the daughter of Foreigner guitarist Mick Jones.

TIL that Kendall's drug-buddy/girlfriend is Mark Ronson's half-sister and the daughter of Foreigner guitarist Mick Jones.

Shiv is NOT a "what's good for the gander is good for the goose" kinda girl. And yes, I know the actual saying.

She's fine fucking around but REALLY isn't comfortable with him doing the same thing. Remember her reaction when she found out Tom was contemplating a little side action? It was the episode where Logan lost the deal he was eyeing. She essentially cock-blocked him. She said something like "but she has a face." Like it's OK for her because Tom didn't see the actor/director guy before she fucked him.

Well it is more awkward to have a hook up with someone you guys know and moves in your social circle than a rando. A gay couple I am friends with has that rule, no fucking friends, just people who are randos.

And while you are right Shiv did react negatively at first, but she did later come back to Tom and apologize and say he can fuck whoever he wants.

Shiv is with Tom because she can control him. Just like guys with dumb trophy wives. With Shiv it’s a dumb, controllable comfort blanket named Tom. I totally get it - and arguably have a similar husband. Willing to put up with way too much shit and never challenges me.

Shiv is with Tom because she can control him. Just like guys with dumb trophy wives. With Shiv it’s a dumb, controllable comfort blanket named Tom. I totally get it - and arguably have a similar husband. Willing to put up with way too much shit and never challenges me.

I think Kendall made his decision when Logan said that the waiter was just another NRPI - no real person involved. Part of Kendall wanted to pay, so he was willing to accept being the sacrifice because of what he'd done. But Logan's attitude soured it. I think Naomi's comment also clicked for him that his dad loves him better as a beat dog. But I think Logan's respect will only grow the more ruthless Kendall becomes. I'm stoked for their fight next season. Very curious, however, if Roman and Shiv will go back to being pissed at him again, as they were when Kendall was trying to oust Logan as CEO. A lot of people still think that Shiv and Kendall played this.

[quote] The only question is when did Ken decided to save himself.

I'll tell you when

Kendall: Did you ever think I could do the job?

Logan: You're not a killer. You need to be a killer (that was the turning point for Ken)

Then they are walking out and Logan is talking about how it will be bad at first, but then he says, "in the end it's nothing" (it being everything Kendall is going to have to go through for taking the fall). That was the point of no return

Now Dad gets to see how taking the fall is "nothing" and how Ken is indeed a killer

Go back and watch the last ten minutes

R544 That's what planted the seed.... then he leaves on helicopter with Greg.... in the air Greg asks if he's ok... stops at the bathroom door... (and it seems that's the condition where Greg spills the beans about the documents he has that can take Logan down). The "betrayal" by Kendall was only made possible because of the airtight documentation from Silly Greg's Vaults of Stupid but Lucky.

I agree with R544. The last ten minutes are riveting and Jeremy Strong does a brilliant job.

Greg has told Kendall about docs at the wedding. I assumed when they got in the helicopter that their plan was already in place. In any case, when Kendall kissed his Dad, it was clear it was a Judas betrayal in the works.

Yes Greg told Kendall he had copies of these documents in the season 1 finale.

Of course this was before Tom burned most of them.

Why does the piece of shit show sstay on???? has no viewers....

So, the theme music won an Emmy. Does anyone know if the same music is eligible next year?

R540, Shiv knew Tom wouldn't go through with it once she said that. That was a throw away comment.

The last 10 minutes were brilliant. I wasn't expecting Kendall to be the badass.

One of the funniest moments of the breakfast scene was when Logan said that "no one is more loyal than Gerri." Gerri was one of the chief conspirators behind the vote of no confidence in season 1! She only got cold feet in the boardroom when she could tell the vote wasn't going to go Kendall's way.

[quote] NRPI - no real person involved.

Wtf? The expression is NHI - no humans involved

R554, Not in the show. NHI is used by cops and goes back to the 90s. Obviously, they didn't want a term associated with the police force.

Great Slate podcast with Gerri! Some nice tidbits about her character, locations, etc.

So is Roman really in love with Gerri?

Kieran Culkin is an AWG. Stop saying he's attractive.

Who is saying he's attractive? He's a slouch and crudely funny at times.

[quote]Great Slate podcast with Gerri! Some nice tidbits about her character, locations, etc.

Her publicist has really been putting her out there. I wish Jeremy Strong would do interviews for this past season.

I also vote it most damn boring show of the year....

Yes, they have, R426. This show ends when Jesse Armstrong decides it does. And that will be at the end of next season.

Why was Greg on the plane with Kendall? Was he supposed to monitor Kendall?

At the the end of the season r563? It was Greg who had the evidence Kendall needed. He is the key component of Kendall's plot.

I wonder if the storyline of Conor’s presidency bid is being cut short since Logan referred to it as “horseshit pipe dream.”

Wise choice if so. I don't need to see that nincompoop become president when we're already watching that arc in real life. And I guess it would be expensive to film if you wanted to really sell it.

Logan ended Connor’s presidential ambitions in the finale. He told Connor that ending the campaign was his condition for the bridge loan.

Jeremy Strong just won the Critics Choice Award. Good for him.

I just binged both seasons. It’s very well written and acted for the most part, but oh how I hate both the character of Cousin Greg and the actor playing him. Just awful.

Cousin Greg must have a gigantic schlong.

"Succession" also won the Critics' Choice Awards for best drama series, beating "The Crown," "Game of Thrones," "Pose," etc.

"Actor" playing Greg r569. There is basically no difference between the personality of Nicholas Braun and Greg.

Yup, it's the same guy. Wonder what'll happen to his career after this show. Not much, I'd guess, unless he starts acting lessons yesterday. And I doubt he has a huge dong - guys with huge dongs are usually more confident than goofy.

R563 here. What I was wondering is whether the episode explained why the family sent Greg with Kendall. If Greg volunteered to go, wouldn't that seem suspicious to that family?

The actor who plays Greg will be shooting a miniseries after Season 3 finishes, playing the disgraced WeWork founder.

Good point, R574. No, it wasn’t explained why he was chosen to “escort” Kendall back to NYC.

[quote] No, it wasn’t explained why he was chosen to “escort” Kendall back to NYC.

I assumed Greg choose to go on his own because he is friendly with Kendall. Kendall hooked him up with his place.

Yeah, but R577, you know that would have had to be approved by daddy. It isn’t a good enough reason.

Why do you think Logan pays that much attention to Greg r578? Greg largely flies under the radar.

Logan pays attention to EVERYTHING, R579. Who comes and who goes in and out of his orbit. That’s my point.

R573 - “.... And I doubt he has a huge dong - guys with huge dongs are usually more confident than goofy”.

Then you obviously haven’t seen my dorky and goofy neighbor in a swim suit. Breathtaking.

R576, thanks. I thought not. It seemed weird, especially when Ken was allowed to be alone in Iceland after the car accident. If then, why the need for an escort now?

It makes me think that Greg going was a part of a deliberate strategy by Logan to give the appearance of throwing him under the bus to make the company completely toxic to any purchaser.

I’m a couple of episodes in. Holly Hunter just arrived. Shorry but sheems to me she’s always been shorta overrated.

It’s great to see Holly Hunter again