Lady Bird Johnson

Thanks for the flowers, Bird.

One of the best.

She was a very astute business woman.

And she was a saint for putting up with LBJ. Did she ever have any affairs?

Was she ever slutty with the secret service men?

Her hair-do is a hair DO!

Like most future presidents, LBJ married her because she was from a wealthy local family, and could give him a leg up as he launched his career. And like most presidents, he stayed married because divorce would have meant the end of his political career, and fucked around and neglected his wife. I do hope Lady Bird got some discrete dick while she was still young enough.

I've never heard any personal criticism of Lady Bird, just a bit of ridicule of her "Highway Beautification" campaign. But she was also involved in wildflower preservation, an environmental movement that doesn't get much attention. She seems to have been a decent sort.

Well she wasn't a beauty, was she?

R7, my Mother met her when she was First Lady & was surprised to find her very attractive in person.

Early environmentalist.

There were rumors that LBJ beat her.

They say photos never did her justice. And I say A-Plus for Lady Bird.

Eartha Kitt confronted her about Vietnam at a demure ladies' luncheon at the White House in 1968. Lady Bird almost cried. Shortly after that, Eartha stopped getting work in the US.

Compared to the current FLOTUS, she and most of the others, were beacons of class and virtue. But she must have had some negatives. I just can’t think of any other than her being a Texas matron but we had two more since.

By all accounts, she was a very kind and generous woman. I went to the LBJ ranch where she lived decades after LBJ's death. It was serene and lovely, her bedroom was quaint with lots of books, cozy. The also had her Lincoln that she used to drive around with the Secret Service following her.

Lady Bird Johnson was the only former first lady to be invited to JKOs private memorial.

The Ertha Kitt debacle was shameful on the part of the Johnson administration. She really was blackballed.

In hindsight, Ertha, like most people who opposed the war , was absolutely right.

Lady Bird, like Pat Nixon, supported their husbands no matter what. It was a very different time.

And it was Pat Nixon who was beaten regularly.

I'm an old man, and never heard a single unkind word against her. Times were definitely different. It's sort of heartbreaking for me to try to explain LBJ's virtues to young people now. The role of a First Lady was quite different in the 60s.

She found something wonderful to do with beautification. She wasn't about to ride Lyndon's monstrous cock forever.

She also gave us a nickname that could be used again with a certain closeted political husband.....

Her hearse.

I really dont Like Her because Of How she and her husband Treated The Divine Eartha Kitt also the way she says “hoodlums” in the video reminds me of Of a type of gentrification in terms of motivations, and just planting the trees and the i just hate how they Treated Eartha Kitt who was speaking the truth, and the whole Luncheon was not really getting the root of the problems that afflicted the Inner City Youth As Eartha Kitt points out, and lady bird johnson seemed like a white feminist who was only concerned with the white parts of society and making sure “hoodlums” did not come to her street both her and her husband had many flaws

So far, the only person who actually dislikes Lady Bird Johnson is functionally illiterate.

What does that tell us?

r13, she was the paradigm for Kathy Griffin

r16, Pat Nixon was not beaten, she was shaken not stirred.

Pat Nixon was beaten so badly by her drunken, rageful and crazy husband that she was hospitalized more than once.

This was while they were in the White House.

I'd be drinking too.

Every time I drive the highway systems and see wildflowers, I give a silent thanks to Lady Bird Johnson. Texas is magnificent to see (as far as wildflowers during the growing seasons). It's a constant and gentle reminder of what we can still have if we make the effort to protect the environment.

Lady Bird was an very intelligent and astute businesswoman. Her husband would have never been much of a success without her and what he did that was positive for the U.S.

She was an excellent and non-political first lady.

R21 please leave me alone. I’m on my phone and autocorrect keeps on giving me problems. The whole construct of using grammar and spelling against each other does more harm than good. That has elitist motivations and not everyone writes the same way each being has their own complex way of speaking and spelling. I don’t have to follow a conformist society

Here's the transcript of her audio diary on the day JFK was assassinated. She was an articulate woman.

[quote] I don’t have to follow a conformist society

Similarly, we don't have to follow an illiterate.

BLOCKED!

We should be so lucky to have such a classy, articulate first lady currently in the White House.

R25,

Skfijw awe loud the lothe. Weasbht politics uns moth and spearmint. Pop soda is quick.

I don’t follow a conformist society, either, but usually that means no one knows what the fuck I’m saying.

R25

MARY!

Lady Bird was very smart, and tough. She put up with her husband's flagrant infidelities, had many miscarriages. Like many women of her time and place, she was stoic about it all. .LBJ, who was shrewd, valued her, even though his behavior could be crude and degrading. Fannie Flagg made a career out of imitating her--"Plant a tree, a bush, or a shrub." Fannie was very funny, but nobody's laughing now about the environment. I admired her.

"Hah, an' good evenin' to YEW."

I was in college when Lyndon became president after Kennedy was assassinated. Lady Bird was usually praised highly by people who met her . She did not always agree with her husband - listen to the Johnson White House tapes. And she was usually right.

Mrs Johnson lived through most of W in White House, and had a large Texas funeral, with Bill Moyer speaking. She lived so long that Lady Bird became a mother figure to Hillary and most other first ladies who followed including Nancy Reagan

R26 made me cry hard tears. I'm sorry. I didn't plan to do that on a Saturday night.

Anyway, here's something happier. She was a nice lady.

She was a fascinating woman. She would critique her husband whenever he appeared on television quite stringently, and he would take it and listen to what she said--even though he cheated on her like crazy, he deeply respected her, and seemed even a bit afraid of her. She was a good-hearted liberal, and was quite advanced for her time, despite coming from the heart of Texas.

She dounds fascinating. Any books recommended about her business acumen?

She dounds fascinating. Any books recommended about her business acumen?

Robert Caro's detailed Johnson book (the best Presidential biography series) did not show a man that respected or any way feared her. When she really shined he would push her down like an abusive partner. For instance, she managed his Congressional office while he fought in WWII. Her softer approach won over hearts and made it easier to get some constituent business handed by agency bureaucrats. When Johnson heard about the praise given to Lady Bird, he was pissed. He hated the fact that she was taking any of his spotlight. Once he returned from the war he swiftly pushed her back into their home.

The radio business was really ran by another associate. Lady Bird was just the front woman because LBJ couldn't hold it himself as a Senator. They made millions because there was pending FFC legislation that would drastically increased the value of some local TX stations. LBJ knew this, so he and his silent partners bought out those little stations. Once the legislation, that he pushed through the senate, passed the family was on their way to becoming millionaires. Some employees said that lady bird would come buy and manage a few things, like a modern day celebrity guru, but she was never in the one making the big moves that brought in the money. She would just sign where LBJ told her to sign. He was a terrible corrupt man. Lady Bird was a described as a very odd and desperate girl that allowed him to walk all over her. He would curse her out in front of guest and was emotionally abusive. He always made it a point to let her know that his job came first, his affairs second, and his wife/daughters a distant third.

This isn't to say that she wasn't a very good First Lady and woman. I love the way she talks and she earned her praise, but we need to be honest about our history.

How the hell did Pat Nixon allow herself to get beat by Nixon while in the White House, when there were Secrete Service officers less than 50 feet away that could stop him? I'm sorry, but it takes someone really fuck up in the head to not scream for help when you basically have a police station on the first floor of your home. What a crazy situation.

[quote] Robert Caro's detailed Johnson book (the best Presidential biography series) did not show a man that respected or any way feared her.

Wait until you get to the final volume.

Will do r40! Since I haven't finished them (is it out yet?) what I said above may not be accurate as the Johnson's entered the WH. He is still one of the most interesting 20th century US Presidents.

I doubt the Secret Service would have interfered. Back then child or spousal abuse was considered a family matter and no one else's business.

Jack and Bobby Kennedy called the Johnson's "Colonel Cornpone and Little Porkchop" .

On second thought, that may have been Jackie's term of endearment for them.

She was no Nellie Connally

Did Doris Kearns Goodwin get poked in the cooter by LBJ?

r46 No, but Lucianne Goldberg did. I sent her an email asking if she sucked LBJ's cock; she replied (!) that "I was never alone with LBJ." Nice way to squirm out of that.

r46 No, but Lucianne Goldberg did. I sent her an email asking if she sucked LBJ's cock; she replied (!) that "I was never alone with LBJ." Nice way to squirm out of that.

r42 that's very sad. But still, if he tried to lay hands on me, I would have gone screaming down the stairs. At that point, the Secrete Service really couldn't stand by while the President abuses someone. Really she should have left his sorry ass, but she saw something good in that down low creep. Different times I guess.

Lady Bird's real first name was Claudia.

Pat Nixon's real first name was Thelma.

The old bastard broke down at Pat's funeral. I wonder if he had any regrets?

Lady Bird accomplished a lot. Highway beautification was a big deal—she was responsible for the anti-billboard campaign in the late 60s early 70s, I think.

I'd have loved to see Miss de Havilland portray her in an autobiographical film around the 1970 era. Was she already retired in France by that time, memorizing her lines for her comeback in one of the decade's later "Concorde" flight disaster film sequels?

Who is the double posting troll in this thread?

R52, agreed. It was a great cause for a FLOTUS because it could yield immediate and tangible results and anyone could participate. I'm not denigrating causes like mental health or literacy, but the beautification of America (as it was called) was comparatively easy to do something about. Anyone can plant a bush, a tree or a shu-ruub.

R3, There were whispers about her having an affair with Cabinet member Stewart Udall.

LBJ promised her the moon and treated her like a queen while courting her. She came from a prominent local family (her father was a nut) and he was from a ridiculed and disgraced family so she was definitely marrying down.

As soon as he married her, he began treating her with contempt. He had affairs constantly. He spoke to her patronizingly and barked orders at her. BUT he introduced her to the most powerful and influential people in DC. She was painfully shy and would never have met such people or lived in such circles otherwise.

It’s said that Sam Rayburn, the speaker of the house who supported LBJ and furthered his career when he was young, was completely devoted to Lady Bird.

^^^ I forgot to mention — the arts and culture were very important to lady bird, so LBJ promised that if they married he would take her to museums and concerts and art galleries. But he was a crude and unsophisticated person and once they were married he did no such thing.

I'm sure LBJ wrecked her holes.

She was a living saint for putting up with LBJ all those years. Many other women would've secretly poisoned him.

I'm just glad Eartha Kitt lived to see her buried.

She was our gal!

It is said that she had a huge crush on James Arness, the star of Gunsmoke, and that when she found out he was a Republican, she cried and took to her bed.

But, she was also one of the last political figures, that people on both sides seemed to equally like and revere. I think that is one reason people reacted badly to the Eartha Kitt incident. It is one thing to speak that way to a President, but First Ladies were different. Other than Eleanor Roosevelt, First Ladies were seen as less political and more unifying figures than their inherently political husbands. However, over the years those lines have disappeared.

Was she fascinating?

What does the Secrete Service secrete?

Her voice is great for ASMR.

She could gnaw the chrome off a Bel-Aire bumper.

Eartha was an ass to have done what she did. She deliberately embarrassed Lady Bird. Eartha could have told LBJ her thoughts without getting on a soapbox like she did, humiliating the (then) first lady. Typical show off.

No, it was not easy to beautify America in the early 1960s. Us elders remember how ugly much of the landscape of America was in that era. Highways were especially bad and billboards were a plague. There was no thought given to planning for plantings of trees and shrubs along roads and highways. She certainly didn't do all of the work or lobby heavily to enact laws, but just bringing an awareness to the American public was a huge deal.

I am a far-distant relative of LBJ through the Baines side of the family. His great grandmother and a great (many times over) grandmother of mine were sisters. Anyway, my father remembered that as a child, he and his siblings were not allowed to mention his name because his parents despised LBJ, basically calling his family a bunch of thieves and liars. Like a poster said above, it was a disgraced family. My dad used to talk about the heated discussions about how LBJ stole the Senate race during big family get togethers like Thanksgiving. (I have nothing to add about Lady Bird. I never thought to ask.)

R63, She was a huge "Gunsmoke" fan. If she ever had to miss an episode when she was FLOTUS, CBS would provide her with a recording of it.

r57 Sam Rayburn was gay and so broken by his sexuality that he lived his entire life as a complete loner. Politics has always been good for gays because we traditionally don't have family obligations, but it's rare for closeted single men to get elected, none the less become the Speaker of the House. I think LBJ was hooking up with Sam. They spent a LOT of alone time together "working". LBJ just wanted power, Sam craved human interaction. Both of them were willing to stay up late working on legislation or their House work, which was rarely that pressing on weekends or late into the night. I think there was more going on. I also believe that most politicians are a least a bit bisexual given their vanity and desire to dominate their opponents in a way that requires social capital over brute strength or physical resources.

Did America prefer Lady Bird over Jackie?

"Did America prefer Lady Bird over Jackie?"

That's a tough choice.

Maybe America but the rest of the world knows nothing of Ladybird unlike “Jackie O” who is known everywhere.

Texans love her, obviously.

She wasn't the all-out whore that Muriel Humphrey was back then, but she could throw a pretty mean fuck.

[quote]stairs. At that point, the Secrete Service really couldn't stand by while the President abuses someone.

The White House Detail of the Secret Service’s sole responsibility is protection of the president. They’re not police officers and would not do anything about what was then considered a very private situation.

[quote]What does the Secrete Service secrete?

Evidently domestic violence.

R77, Jackie allegedly had an ongoing affair with her SS agent, Clint Hill, after JFK's assassination.

I was in the 8th grade in 1963.....one day we had the glamorous Jackie and the next day we had the frumpy Lady Bird.....it was a scandal and an outrage.

Some negative comments about Lady Bird and Lyndon.

LBJ partly initiated and signed three civil rights bills into law, also Medicare, Head Start, War on Poverty.

He also selected the first black Supreme Court Justice.

R80 MARY!

I mean

JACKIE!

r77, they also protect the First Family. Pat Nixon had her own detail like all First Ladies. I say this again, if the Frist Lady was being beaten in front of the Secret Service Agent I really doubt they could stand by. If Pat stayed in the residence then, I agree, they wouldn't be rushing in to save her. If anyone in the White House starts screaming for help security is instantly mobilized. She could have gotten help, but she decided to stick around her crazy husband.

[quote] I do hope Lady Bird got some discrete dick while she was still young enough.

I hope she got some of Mamie's leftovers.

[quote] I do hope Lady Bird got some discrete dick while she was still young enough.

Oh Dear!

My hope as well, think how terrible it would be to always be double penetrated

LBJ was extremely proud of his huge cock. He even once took it out at a Cabinet meeting and asked if anyone in the room thought Ho Chi Minh had a cock anywhere near as big, according to Jack Valenti.

LBJ also often boasted that he slept with more women in his life than all of the Kennedy brothers combined.

Lady Bird defended Johnson aide Walter Jenkins when he was arrested at the Washington YMCA in the Fall of 1964. She wanted to give him a job in Austin at the family station (tv and radio). She argued to Lyndon that few staff members would trust them if he was fired. At one point in the conversation (captured on tape) Lady Bird mentioned speaking out her self in Jenkin's defense.

The only problem with LBJs huge cock

was that it was attached to LBJ

that's why god made glory holes R88

R87, It's not widely known, and certainly wasn't in 1964, that Walter Jenkins' YMCA incident was not the first time he had been arrested on similar charges, which belies Lady Bird publicly stating that the YMCA incident was isolated and due to stress and fatigue.

Amen, R62! It wasn't just beautification, Lady Bird helped create the movement of respect for native plantings. They didn't plant just any ol' shrub on our Texas highways, they spray-planted millions of Texas wildflowers. Without her many of those wildflowers would be lost today.

At the end of LBJ's life, when he was at the ranch and largely disgraced, his mistress was the wife of my dad's rancher friend. Jewel, I think her name was. She came to the ranch as a massage therapist and became his mistress. Lady Bird and the rancher turned blind eyes. I guess, thinking-- what can we do? I've wondered if this would make the Cato biography. I always assumed the story was true.

She was one of the last "ornamental" First Ladies. There's no formal role for the First Lady, which was created by Dolley Madison.

Pat Nixon carried on with volunteerism, which was similar to Mamie Eisenhower's. Betty Ford though broke all the molds: she spoke openly about the benefits of mental health treatment, marijuana. She did the bump in the White House. She talked on the CB Radio as "First Mama".

When Rosalynn Carter became first lady, she took up that mantle and became an activist for mental health causes, connecting her to Betty Ford. Ford and Carter teamed up on a number of issues which were considered controversial at the time, creating the new model for first ladies.

[quote]Lady Bird mentioned speaking out her self in Jenkin's defense.

Oh fucking dear!!

R73, Jackie looks so young and fresh-faced there.

Maybe because she was, r95.

Duh.

Lady Bird and Mrs. Kennedy were close until the end.

Strangely enough, Jackie always thought LBJ was involved in JFKs' assassination.

LBJ had a lot of things wrong with him, but as mentioned up thread, he did some great things in regard to civil rights.

Also, it was LBJ who started our withdrawal from Vietnam. (not JFK as many people believe)

She was portrayed on screen by Patti LuPone. It doesn't get better than that.

r97 don't you mean Nixon? No one thought JFK had the time to do much in the way of withdraws, especially since JKF was long since dead while LBJ was sending thousands upon thousands of sexy young men to that godforsaken jungle because his ego didn't learn the lessons from the American Revolutionary War. People fight damn hard to protect their land, and when it's not a well know area like Europe, it becomes a lot harder to handle guerrilla warfare. LBJ might have started the draw down, but that's like given GWB credit for troop reductions in Iraqi and Afghanistan. He has a wonderful domestic policy resume that can only be compared to Roosevelt.

I've never seen any reliable biographer claim that Dick Nixon did indeed beat Pat. It's been rumored, but there's never been any reliable evidence.

Can we PLEASE get back to discussing the finest First Lady ever, the great Mamie Eisenhower?

I serviced in Vietnam. Kennedy and his advisors involved the United States in Vietnam and we're overtaken by events, like the assassation of the president of South Vietnam

LBJ inherited the war, and did a terrible job thereafter.

Johnson should have fired Henry Cabot Lodge and General Westmoreland. And should not have sent the entire cast of Hello Dolly to entertain under such dangerous conditions

[quote]I serviced in Vietnam.

And I'm sure your fellow platoon members appreciated those blowjobs! Great way to keep your morale up!

yes r102 did you get any dick while you were over there?

R100, It was Woodward and Bernstein who concocted that lie about Nixon beating Pat, in a book they co-wrote after All the President's Men. Nixon highly respected her. There are numerous audio recordings of them speaking on the phone together on YouTube, and the quality of their relationship is obvious.

Was red her color and Nancy Reagan just copied her?

R105 It wasn't Woodward and Bernstein, it was Fawn Brodie who first put the accusation in print, in her biography Richard Nixon: The Shaping of His Character. She got the accusation from Gov. Pat Brown, who heard a rumor second hand. As both of them held anti-Nixon feelings, it makes the accusations questionable. One of the most unbelievable accusations is that Nixon beat his wife shortly after they returned to California after his resignation. This would have been at the time he was being treated for a serious medical condition. In addition, if it had occurred then, I doubt that reporters and papers would have kept it quiet. While there was still alot of secrecy about people's personal lives, at the time. Nixon was public enemy number one, especially among the press. I just cannot imagine that some enterprising reporter would not have cracked the story, that not only was Nixon a crook, but also a wife beater.

Supposedly, JFK had written on a memo -before leaving for Texas - and left it on his desk - that he wanted to get out of Vietnam. But when it was presented to LBJ after his return from Dallas, he threw it away.

LBJ and his ego got a lot of boys killed and/or forever damaged. He had horrible judgment. JFK had learned not to listen to his Generals, but LBJ learned nothing from watching that. He didn't want to be the President who lost a war. Then Nixon was just as bad.

Lady Bird was respected for her decency. How she put up with LBJ is a wonder.

R107, W and B perpetuated the beating myth in "The Final Days".

R109 I haven't read that book, but every article that I have read about the allegations says emphatically that Woodward and Bernstein never made the allegation in print.

[quote]“In the period after Watergate, Nixon was accused of everything — some of it quite fanciful — and it’s significant, I think, that you had three of the greatest investigative reporters, Woodward and Bernstein and Hersh, and not one of them put it in print in their long investigations on Nixon.”

In photos, her aura emanates warmth and kindness.

Lady Bird conducted a White House tour in 1968.

Nixon went to see "Deep Throat" five times. He wanted to make sure he could get it down Pat.

What makes anyone think that there would be proof or witnesses to Nixon hitting Pat? Domestic violence happens everyday under people's noses and not a word spoken. With gossip, where there's smoke there's usually fire. Bruises are easily hidden. Black eyes, even, too. Poor Pat fits the description of an abused wife, whether she was or wasn't.

OP should have been titled: "Eldergays, tell me about Miss Ladybird Johnson".

It's kinda amazing that LBJ has been gone for so long and she only recently passed. I think she was very well liked by leaders on both sides of the aisle.

Before she died she gave $300K to pay off her churches mortgage.

I think I mentioned before that I attended an event - while Nixon was President - that was a night to honor Patricia Nixon. At a hotel in Wash DC. Her daughters were there too. So President Nixon did show up while dinner was served. He went up to the dais and spoke. He didn't say a word about his wife Pat - but spoke about his saintly mother. Poor Pat deserved her night but he wasn't about to acknowledge it.

Eartha Kitt attacked her once.

R96, I'd say she could pass for mid-twenties in that photo, even though she was thirty-two.

According to Robert Dallek, when LBJ was told about the Jenkins scandal, he said, "I couldn't have been more shocked about Walter Jenkins if I'd heard that Lady Bird had tried to kill the Pope."

R114 That is what makes the allegations seem far-fetched. They are presented AS having witnesses. Such as the allegation, about him beating her after Watergate when they moved home to California. The allegation is that she was hurt so badly that she had to go to the hospital, you can't tell me there wouldn't have been one loose lipped person in that hospital willing to talk, either then or now. Plus, most of the allegations is hearsay, where a person says Pat told another person he hit her. It is crazy to think she was being seen in hospitals for abuse and telling people she was being abused and no one said anything about it at the time.

The women you are talking about tend to be suffering in silence, behind closed doors. Not, going around telling people she is being abused and being admitted to hospitals.

Nixon was a horrible man, but I just don't believe these accusations.

R93: Mrs Johnson was more that just ornament, as the wife of Vice President Johnson, she visited hospitals, especially children hospitals. I agree that was not published much then.

She lived almost 40 years after the White House, always continuing with beautification projects.

Lady Bird called several tv news shows minutes after Jackie Kennedy died, and spoke on air.

[quote]Can we PLEASE get back to discussing the finest First Lady ever, the great Mamie Eisenhower?

Does finest mean drunkest?

LBJ is a prime example of a WRETCHEDLY TERRIBLE person in terms of character and personality, the way he treated others, personal beliefs, etc who somehow managed to do remarkably positive things for the country. You can’t read Caro’s books and come away without disgust and revulsion for LBJ as a man and pity for Lady Bird. When people say Trump’s personal filth defiles the Oval Office...it’s been defiled before.

I wouldn’t be surprised if JFK, LBJ, and Nixon all beat or raped their wives. These were not good men.

I've reached my limit. I can't take anymore of your badgering.

[quote]Lady Bird called several tv news shows minutes after Jackie Kennedy died, and spoke on air.

That's terrible. Mrs. Kennedy dies and all Lady Bird can talk about is her environmental projects? She could have at least spoke about Mrs. Kennedy.

"Lady Bird Johnson did not say why she did not attend the funerals of Bess Truman, Mamie Eisenhower or Pat Nixon, nor those of Presidents Nixon, Ford or Reagan. In fact, the only funeral she did insist on attending, struggling up the marble steps of the church with a cane, was that of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis in 1994."

[quote]In fact, the only funeral she did insist on attending, struggling up the marble steps of the church with a cane, was that of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis in 1994."

I wanted to spit on her dead corpse. It took her forever to get out of the White House after fate dealt her an unfortunate circumstance. When I walked into the White House, it was in ruins. The curtains were torn, like chiIdren had used them to climb on. There were scuff marks on all the floors. I went into the basement to look at the pool and there were tons of ladies undergarments down there. And some of them still had the ladies attached. Those Kennedys were nothing but NorthEastern trash!

As an Austinite, I'm deeply grateful for her beautification efforts. They show up weekly here in one form or another.

R129 I understand if you're trying to be witty or funny but if anything the Kennedy's deeply looked down on the Johnsons and despite all of this Lady Bird and Jackie remained friendly for the rest of their lives. I believe Lady Bird was the only former First Lady that Jackie kept in regular contact with. There were numerous library dedications/reunions/funerals over the years where past First Families gathered. Jackie did not attend a single one.

R125, very few people's lives can stand up to close historical scrutiny, especially when they have enjoyed many years of holding power over others. Sometimes this is because of changing standards. For example, every president before Bill Clinton would likely be considered a racist by "woke" standards. FDR and probably most presidents before him were casually anti-Semitic in ways that were common at the time but would appropriately be condemned today. I don't believe in holding people of the past to 21st century standards or expecting them to have been morally perfect on every issue.

But you are right about LBJ. He really was a bad person. He was not amoral - I think he truly believed in the cause of civil rights for black Americans and in the Great Society programs like Medicare that were enacted on his watch with his leadership. He was misguided on Vietnam, but he so were "the best and the brightest" of the time; his position was fully consistent with American foreign policy since World War II. And yet, at a personal level, he was mean, deliberately cruel, disgustingly crude, and unkind to his wife, who was a lovely person.

The lesson is that a person can be both moral and effective in his public life while being a nasty jerk or worse privately. I'd rather have a president like that than one whose personal behavior and opinions were impeccable but who was ineffective and inconsistent in their performance as president.

R131, what do you suppose drew them together? They both undoubtedly had very nice manners, having both grown up in upper-class (although very different) circumstances, but that's not quite enough.

I have always thought that JKO was not fundamentally a happy person. Quite aside from the tragedies in her life, she seems to me not to have had a sunny, upbeat or optimistic temperament. Perhaps it was her great public decorum and personal reserve (which I admire), but she rarely seems to have fully enjoyed life. Anyway, I wonder if Lady Bird, who was a warm and kind person, felt sorry for Jackie and took her under her wing. Maybe as a result, Jackie was able to open up to her, and their relationship became close.

Just speculation, but one does wonder why two such different women would bond.

That LBJ Early Years Movie!

Who on earth thought that the very ethnic Patti Lupone was a match for Lady Bird?

[quote]That LBJ Early Years Movie!

But it does show that Randy Quaid was actually a decent actor before he went batshit crazy and started posting videos of him and his wife having sex while their dog watched.

[quote]Other than Eleanor Roosevelt, First Ladies were seen as less political and more unifying figures than their inherently political husbands.

Exactly -- and Lady Bird in particular. It was well known that Johnson was a cunning and duplicitous manipulator, and Lady Bird was as sweet and open as they came. Yet Kitt decided to use her proximity to the First Lady to do a little grandstanding, knowing full well the person she was humiliating had no power to bring to bear. She should have been punched right in the taco for what she did to Lady Bird.

[quote] what do you suppose drew them together? They both undoubtedly had very nice manners, having both grown up in upper-class (although very different) circumstances, but that's not quite enough.

Not sure, I'd imagine some of it was just having survived the 1960s. I believe they used to both vacation on Martha's Vineyard later in life.

LBJ used his cunning and lies to pass three civil rights bills and Medicaid and Medicare.

To be fair, Robert Kennedy hated Johnson and made his life miserable Then LBJ was only somewhat kinder to his vice president

[quote]LBJ used his cunning and lies to pass three civil rights bills and Medicaid and Medicare.

Yes, that's correct. He did.

R131, Jackie only showed up if the event was beneficial to the Kennedy family.

6 First Ladies, only 1 survives.

Jackie and Lady Bird did not get along when Jackie was First lady. She used to mock the Johnsons, and referred to them as "Colonel Cornpone and his wife Mrs. Cornpone." But when her husband was killed, the Johnsons treated her with such incredible respect and kindness I think she was really won over by them. They insisted she did not need to leave the White House at any time until she was ready, and they stayed I think in Blair House until she was ready to leave. And they kept the somewhat pretentious sign she had put up on the entrance to the presidential bedroom: "John F. Kennedy lived here with his wife." (The Nixons took it down when they moved in.)

Jackie and lady Bird had a lot in common. They were both somewhat spoiled daughters of wealthy people, but they were well-educated and cultured. And they married aggressive politicians who married them more for breeding than for who they were as human beings, and had to put up with their husbands' overt philandering. And they were both dedicated mothers.

She took NO SHIT

You can see in that photo that Ethel is desperately looking to sneak off so she can stick her finger up her nose.

The Laura Ashley era did no favors for Caroline Kennedy. What a frump. You would have thought her mother would have made her wear something more becoming.

Actually Ethel was probably looking for the bar cart.

Jackie hated Ethel and vice versa. She was probably very uncomfortable in that room.

Jackie and Lady Bird were also both introverted and shy bookworms. Lady Bird lacked Jackie’s social ambitions and pretentions but in their early lives they were both somewhat awkward loners who enjoyed school and reading. Jackie was also mean as a cur at times (including to Caroline for being a dumpy teenager—imagine having to go through puberty as Jackie’s daughter). I always wondered where Lady Bird put her suffering and stress, you never hear any stories of her treating people poorly, despite how much LBJ made her suffer.

"I'd rather have a president like that than one whose personal behavior and opinions were impeccable but who was ineffective and inconsistent in their performance as president. "

Jimmy Carter, they're calling your name!

But yeah, I'd say that Johnson did more good than harm in his lifetime... but damn. He made it a close thing, and for no good reason but that he liked being an asshole.

It’s easy to like Johnson’s accomplishments in retrospect, while we enjoy the fruits of the good things he did. Would have been a lot harder if I was a parent whose son got drafted into Nam.

R132, great post!

Lady Bird was able to do things she enjoyed after Lyndon died in 1973, especially traveling.

Still, she must have missed him, regret he barely knew their grandchildren. Surprisingly, Lady Bird stopped cooperating with LBJ's famous biographer, Robert Caro. Her friend, Bill Moyer's never cooperated with Caro.

R151 I don’t think it is too surprising...didn’t one of the earlier volumes say she stopped cooperating after hearing that he was asking questions about the radio license $$ stuff? A lot of political biographies smooth over the bad stuff (ahem Jon Meacham) so maybe she was expecting a softer touch from Caro.

I must thank you, DL, for this very rich and interesting thread. I need to save it so I can make some footnotes to research later.

President of the United States, Lyndon B. Johnson (1908-1973) pictured with family members at the wedding of his daughter Lynda Bird Johnson in Washington in December 1967. Members of the wedding party include from left to right: Patrick Nugent, Luci Baines Johnson, Lady Bird Johnson, President Lyndon B. Johnson, Lynda Bird Johnson, Charles 'Chuck' Robb and his parents.

I was 15 when Lynda and Chuck married. I beat off to Chuck Robb often.

Well, she NEVAH posed nude .

No, that was Mamie Eisenhower.

r154 those Johnson girls found some attractive husbands. You just know that the would have had real daddy issues.

r112 skip to 12:15, LBJ had t =o zone out just to make it through that dull, made for TV, lunch conversation. It's hilarious.

R21 and R27 — you’re why I love Datalounge!

[quote]Luci Baines Johnson

[quote]Lynda Bird Johnson

Where evuh did they come up with such original middle names?

Well, according to Gore Vidal, Jackie was no "shy bookworm." That (according to him) was all for show.

But then again Vidal was jelly and wanted JFK's dick, although Jackie herself probably wasn't getting it either by that point.

Updates and honest updates on LBJ's children, marriages, accomplishments appreciated.

Vidal would get a dick by trying to be clever or by punching someone, which he did with Bill Buckley once . Ironic since they were both poorly closted. Buckley just had higher standards.

She "supported" her corrupt, ambitious, criminal and violent husband by pouring her family's money into his campaigns and by being complicit in her silence.

Although one person I know who knew her (worked at the property after LBJ died) said that she was constantly kind, decent and thoughtful in her dealings with people and seemed completely authentic. His take was that she felt it was her duty to support her husband and keep her head turned when necessary.

But, Jesus, their behavior on the plane from Dallas with cronies, smirking leers, winks, and their treatment of Jackie was so abominable they both should have been exiled for that alone. Foul ambition and possible - on his side - co-conspirator.

I went to the LBJ library a few years ago, it's fantastic. I didn't see a lot of Lady Bird stuff. There was a special 1960's installation so maybe I missed seeing the Lady Bird memorabilia? This thread inspires me to go back to the library :)

R166 there is almost nothing about Lady Bird there.

R167 That is a shame, after all she put up with from him, and she was the one who made the money so he could run for office, there should be a Lady Bird wing.

for balance, shouldn't lady bird have two wings?

[quote]and she was the one who made the money so he could run for office, there should be a Lady Bird wing.

Well, not quite. He got his political financing from a number of sources, but especially from the engineering firm Brown and Root, and from the Texas newspaper tycoon Marsh.

Johnson bought the businesses, not to finance his campaigns, but for his own personal wealth. He was always afraid that if he failed in politics it would leave him destitute. He actually began his radio station acquisitions in the 1940s, when it looked like his political career had stalled and might not revive.

Lady Bird was put in charge of the radio stations, at first largely as a front so that he was not seen as owning businesses that are supposed to be heavily government-regulated. She actually jumped in with both feet, worked diligently and made a huge contribution, but at the end of the day Johnson always was in charge of the radio businesses.

She was a bitch, five minutes after Kennedy was shot, she was already moving things into the White House.

And she was all like, "Now we can have a national house with some taste, as soon as I get rid of that Boston trash."

I haven't read through this whole thread so I hope this hasn't already been posted.

Fannie Flagg did a hilarious Lady Bird impression many years ago.

Lady Bird was hardcore, after she threw Jackie out, she was like, "OK, on to 'Nam and let's win that sucker"

[quote] I was 15 when Lynda and Chuck married. I beat off to Chuck Robb often.

[quote] [R154] those Johnson girls found some attractive husbands.

[quote]Fannie Flagg did a hilarious Lady Bird impression many years ago.

"... and Mrs. Luci Baines Johnson NUGENT!" LOL

Fun fact: "Lynda Byerd" underwent electrolysis on her Teresa Giudice hairline as a young woman in the '60s.

Elder gays will remember Lynda dating George Hamilton in 1966. He even took her to the Oscars after a visit to George Masters, who glammed her up.

Chuck and Lynda Byrd have both seen their better days.

Lady Bird never like Jackie, with good reason.

TMI, r174. TM fucking I.

R178, Their better days . . .

Ladybird was a great First Lady; dignified, well educated, involved. She was no snob and compulsive spendthrift like Jackie. She was a class act all the way.

Her lemon cake recipe looks good.

R183, 8 egg yolks? No wonder LBJ had multiple heart attacks.

Pedernales River Chili

Re Mrs. Lyndon B. Johnson's recipe, does anyone know any woman under the age of 90 who now identifies by her husband's name?

This is such an interesting and sweet thread. I'm sure the very classy, sophisticated, sweet, caring current first lady will receive a similar thread in 40 years!

I knew the Robbs a little bit for a brief time. After he was Governor but not yet Senator. Lynda Robb was a nice person but she didn't have much social grace. (I would get to know her again years later and she had conquered that.) Anyway, she was crazy about him. He was openly pretty cold to her and had a wandering eye. I don't get why she stayed with him. He didn't care about making her happy one bit.

That's the dryest looking pound cake I have ever seen. Pound cakes are supposed to have a smooth and fluffy crumb, not one that looks like pebbles.

Interesting to see that there remain some Kennedy true believers who still cling to the BS stories peddled by the Kennedy crowd.

This for example...

[quote] Supposedly, JFK had written on a memo -before leaving for Texas - and left it on his desk - that he wanted to get out of Vietnam. But when it was presented to LBJ after his return from Dallas, he threw it away.

Note the "Supposedly".

LBJ's big mistake was not getting rid of all the Kennedy guys once he became President. They did not serve LBJ well as far as Vietnam is concerned.

For an excellent depiction of what went on regarding Vietnam after LBJ was President, take the time to watch the excellent "Path to War" from 2002 which stars Michael Gambon on LBJ, Donald Sutherland as Clark Clifford and Alec Baldwin as Robert McNamara. And make a note of how many of these advising Johnson came to the White House under his predecessor.

And, yes, the makers of the film listened to the Johnson tapes.

Excellent and enlightening. Assuming, that is, the you might be interested in a more accurate picture.

R186, Rose insisted on being addressed and introduced as Mrs. Joseph P. Kennedy.

Well, R191, since Rose would now be 129, she's well outside the age group about which I was inquiring.

R192, It was once customary for married women to be addressed by their married names.

Understood, R192, I even remember a woman from a 1950s episode of WML who signed in in her husband's name, dispensing entirely with the Mrs. title, but I'm asking if anyone is aware of a living woman under the age of 90 who still engages in this old custom.

R190. Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred in Johnson’s first year. To his credit, Johnson did service in WWII in the Navy in the southwest Pacific.

You’d think he’d smell a rat like the Tonkin incidents (one of which was disproved in 2005). But no. Congress passed the resolution that committed us to War-in-all-but-name. Even Johnson thought the North Vietnamese could have “been out there shooting whales”. But he didn’t veto the bill. Nope, 23,000 troops in Vietnam.

That’s on Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and it’s on Lyndon Johnson. It’s also on Congress for having rushed headlong into war without having bothered to check its facts.

“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia,"” — Vizzini, “Princess Bride”

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Chuck Robb made lists of dumbest and least effective senators (so did his GOP counterpart from Virginia, John Warner). Although they didn't make such great marriages, her daughters seem to have turned out alright.

[quote] Although they didn't make such great marriages, her daughters seem to have turned out alright.

They inherited their mom’s thick gorgeous hair and propensity for bouffants. What more does any woman need?