Would you ever adopt a pit bull?

They are too much work and you’ve got to have a yard with a high fence.

Can you have them de-fanged?

I like both dogs and cats. But I don't want to own an animal that can easily kill a human being, so no.

Excuse me. Not pit bulls. PITTIES.

Not where I live now. Soon, when I have saved enough, I'm going to buy a house way out in the middle of nowhere. There I would feel safe owning one. And I'll be happy to adopt since they have trouble finding homes

Isn't all the fear associated with pit bulls a result of the ones that are trained to be aggressive? I thought I read that they're really great dogs.

No R6, they are naturally pretty aggressive as a breed. You can somewhat mitigate it with training. They are very loyal and loving to their owners, even by dog standards

Never

[quote]Isn't all the fear associated with pit bulls a result of the ones that are trained to be aggressive? I thought I read that they're really great dogs.

No. At one time, they were great dogs - nanny dogs.

However, breeding not only works for physical characteristics, but also behavioral - it's how dogs were originally domesticated. A Russian scientist attempted to achieve what took thousands of years with dogs through selective breeding with red foxes. They allowed foxes that showed no fear or aggression toward humans to breed and continued to allow only those that showed favorable behaviors toward humans to continue to breed.

[quote]The program was started in 1959 in the Soviet Union by zoologist Dmitry Belyayev and it has been in continuous operation since... They saw some retention of juvenile traits by adult dogs, both morphological ones, such as skulls that were unusually broad for their length, and behavioral ones, such as whining, barking, and submission.

The reverse is also operational. Pit Bulls (a generic name that actually covers several different dog breeds, including American Pit Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.) Pit Bulls were bred for decades for certain physical characteristics and aggressiveness.

The problem is that you never know the breeding history of any particular dog. Most likely, a dog you find in rescue will itself or it's close progenitor will have been bred for fighting (or discarded before or after fighting for being a loser) - with that breeding comes behavioral characteristics.

An animal like that that is bred for fighting and aggression will be unpredictable as it is no longer a wholly domesticated animal - ask Roy about his white tiger who never attacked him...until it did. While you MIGHT be able to mitigate some of those behaviors - again, see Roy.

It is the unpredictable nature of the animal that makes it dangerous.

No R6, R7 is right. I was walking on an errand last month, I carry a cloth bag when I go shopping. I saw at the corner a guy walking a frisky dog, but my eyes are not very good so I couldn't tell what it was. As they got near I could see that it was an almost adult pit bull. As we passed the dog playfully chomped onto my bag and wouldn't let go. I stood there staring at the owner as he tried to dislodge dog from bag, which he eventually did. The only thought I had was, what if I had been walking with a child instead of a shopping bag, the child's first impulse would be to reach out to the "doggie". Large dogs need to be muzzled in the city, pit bull or not.

R9, You're very smart. Thank you.

There are some very sweet pits - but I have seen them turn on a dime. There is something inherently aggressive about them deep down and I don't believe they can help it. It's too bad.

No, too much risk, I associate them with trashy people, and I just don't think they are a cute breed.

I’ve never been a big fan of my face anyway. Rescue dog, do your thing!

[quote]No, too much risk, I associate them with trashy people, and I just don't think they are a cute breed.

Pit bull = Camaro of non-white people

Hundreds of years of breeding cannot be ignored. It can manifest out of no where.

R11, you must be dumb. R9 is regurgitating shit that everyone with a brain has heard. The Russian fox experiment is widely studied and deeply flawed. Controlled selective breeding of caged creatures does not replicate millennia of natural selection. Not matter how eloquently she tries to phrase her shit, R9 is a simple basic bitch spewing bunk and you're just as bad for encouraging her.

In a heartbeat. They were the original Nanny dogs in Victorian times. Very sweet, loving animals. It's the macho owners who treat them badly and encourage them to fight.

Lol at your stereotypes! My blind toy poodle and my deaf mini poodle would disagree with your assessment. My 7 yr old pitbull, essentially their nanny, has been their eyes and ears for 5 years and they would be lost without him. But go on with your broad brushes.

R13 and R15, are you posting from 1993 or are you just ignorant and replaying what you saw on Cops repeats? I live in a mixed inner city hood. By FAR the predominant pit bull owners are white woke millennials, male hipsters, and older women in the canine "rescue community". Gang bangers still have them but it's widely accepted by bangers that toting a pitty is now a tell that opens you up to suspicion. You gurls are also so late to the party.

Eldergay here. Had dogs all my life. Since childhood, I've had a chihuahua, a Doberman, Irish Setter, German Shepherds, poodles of various sizes and a pit bull. My advice: Do not get caught up in breed specific stereotypes. Bond with your dog and seek professional advice if it shows signs of resistance to proper training. These scare threads hurt the chances that good dogs end up in the good homes they deserve.

Never. I couldn't live with myself if a child or someone's pet was mauled or killed, and I wouldn't want to face prosecution either.

I always think they look like they have FAS. Ugly creatures. And no, I’d never own one. Too risky.

R22 That would be grand mauled. Are you new?

Even if it was a sweet dog I wouldn't want my neighbors to be afraid. Or the postman.

I don't want any breed of dog that would hurt someone. Pitts are part terrier which means they are tenacious when engaged. My neighbor had a sweet one who loved the family until he was two years old and bit the 6 year old daughter. She never teased the dog, it was never abused. They raised it from a pup.

My golden retriever wouldn't bite a dog that attacked her, much less a member of the family. I have nothing to prove, I'll take a sissy dog any day.

No I would not. And I'm sick of animal rescue groups organizations who focus all their attention on pits.Im tired of seeing resources go to a breed that is by now largely unfixable. The majority of pits are frankly unmanageable, more like wild animals than a domesticated pet. And their owners are usually either naive pollyannas or entitled shitheads who like making people uncomfortable.

R25 I love Goldens! Well acquainted with them and family members have actually bred them. Be aware: They are NOT universally "sweet". That is in and of itself another stereotype. They are a product of their environment and without direction can be quite aggressive and difficult on leash.

^Maybe, but they are not able to easily kill you.

Golden retrievers can be stubborn and aggressive. I’ve been bitten by two of them. They are some of the neediest dogs, as well.

A bit unhinged, aren't we r17?

[quote]There has also been a spate of technical papers on the role that gene expression — the switching of genes between “on” and “off” states — plays in the domestication of foxes and, in all likelihood, other animals. It is all too easy to forget that Belyaev predicted the link between domestication and what we now call gene expression patterns before the field of molecular genetics ever existed.

[quote]To this day, no study has taught us more about domestication, the very process responsible for our pets and farm animals (and crop plants), than Belyaev’s fox experiment.

No one said the study was perfection incarnate. But you are woefully wrong in assessment.

[quote]The Russian fox experiment is widely studied and deeply flawed. Controlled selective breeding of caged creatures does not replicate millennia of natural selection.

It was never meant to replicate "natural selection." It was meant to provide insights into the process by which dogs (and a few other animals) became domesticated - which is fundamentally different from being "tame."

[quote]Not matter how eloquently she tries to phrase her shit, [R9] is a simple basic bitch spewing bunk and you're just as bad for encouraging her.

Show us all these widely done studies that show that experiment to be "deeply flawed."

According to Scientific American: "These results have led to speculation that similar models could account for the superior behavioral and cognitive traits (and physical and physiological differences) of domestic dogs over their wolf ancestors."

I am not "spewing" anything. I am sharing my own assessment of pit bulls and why I wouldn't adopt one. As for other people making this link, I have not seen it. It is, in fact, my own analysis - flawed though you may find it. It is how I formed and informed my thinking on the subject of adopting this breed.

Of course, I welcome any citation that contradict my point, especially those that show the Russian study as flawed (as it seems to be frequently and regularly cited as the basis for other analyses), as well as any other analyses that make a similar connection between the breeding for specific character traits and pit bulls...if you can, that is.

[quote]By FAR the predominant pit bull owners are white woke millennials, male hipsters, and older women in the canine "rescue community".

Hipsters and millennials have pit bulls because, when they go to the local pound to adopt a dog, pit bulls are the only dogs that are available to adopt. Hipsters and millennials who adopt pits essentially are cleaning up someone else's mistakes.

These owners have no idea how these dogs, an aggressive breed to begin with, were treated by their previous (trashy) owner. Why risk getting mauled, or having your pit bull maul someone else?

While I have a very sweet golden girl myself I have cared for numerous pits in my busineas. They can be among the sweetest dogs I've ever known. Some of you are so ignorant. Very few dogs are born killers. It doesn't work like that.

[R32] I have a dog sitting business and my pit clients are great. I like all dogs, but I would say some of the most difficult in urban areas are the large hunting dogs, like foxhounds. There are too energetic for the city and they howl. Pit bulls are relatively quiet.

[quote]Very few dogs are born killers. It doesn't work like that.

Science says otherwise.

I should also add that it's not that pit bulls are or are not born killers or aggressive - because I know my comment at r9 will ignore my previously stated points.

It's that their breeding for certain traits for years, both physical and behavioral, have altered the breed and made them significantly more unpredictable with their aggression than other breeds.

THAT is the risk, not that any particular dog is or isn't sweet. And almost every one of the hysterical, hand wringing articles about attacks seem to note that the attack was seemingly unprovoked and the dog had previously not shown aggressive tendencies, especially toward family members.

The current stock of dogs reflects that breeding. It would take a significant effort to undue that.

Remember all those stories about the family dachshund, raised in a loving home since a pup, suddenly viciously killing a child in the family? Neither do I. Pitts? Yes.

The "nanny dog" myth has absolutely no evidence behind it. Even the pro-pit bull website linked below admits this:

More information on the "nanny dog" myth:

If only there was site that listed fatal dog attacks in an unbiased way.

Go back over a decade or two and you'll see why no one should own pitbulls.

The nanny dog nonsense has been debunked to death here and elsewhere.

I’ve known a lot of very sweet pits but I wouldn’t personally own one. I know myself and I don’t think I’d be able to properly train a dog with that kind of physicality. Too much risk. I’ll take a cutesier breed anyday.

I have a friend who took in an abandoned pit bull puppy, bottle fed it and spoiled him rotten. He went on to get married and have a few kids, and the dog was great with the kids, even though people warned him to get rid of the dog before the kids came. He was a gentle giant, the kids climbed all over him and he loved them. Several years after the dog died of old age, they adopted another pitbull puppy. Sweet as pie, no issues. Socialized well with other dogs. One day, the wife had the dog out for a walk, passed a neighbor lady walking a little dog, and the pitbull took off like a bat out of hell, attacked the little dog and bit the owner when she tried to separate them. They put the dog down and had to settle out of court. It was heartbreaking for all involved. My point is you never know what's going to trigger them and the fact is they have a jaw like a fucking alligator.

No, the breed is banned in my country.

Pit bulls should be forced to extinction.

R43 Yes. First step should be to ban them. The breed is banned in many countries, including mine.

[quote]Pit bulls should be forced to extinction.

Yes, because mass extinction of an entire species is a good idea.

We care that hyenas, wolves, and Tigers - all of which would kill and eat a person given the opportunity - are going extinct, but to hell with these dogs?

You people are as bad as the pit bull apologists.

R45 What use are pit bulls to the world? They're dangerous, aggressive and ugly. They literally kill people. The dog is a domestic animal. Comparing the breed to wild animals is dumb.

People are, in fact, responsible for both the domestication and subsequent breeding programs that created all dogs, including pit bulls. Because they no longer suit us, it is irresponsible and ethically challenged to abdicate responsibility for the breed and kill them.

No one is comparing them to wild animals, so you're simply making a false argument. The argument I was making was that the preservation of speciation is either a goal to which we aspire or not - the qualitative "value" of a particular species, utility, beauty, or cuddliness are mostly irrelevant.

Many animals are dangerous, ugly, and aggressive - and literally kill people. Those are NOT sufficient criteria to call for their extinction.

r45, dogs are a species, pit bulls are a breed. If every single living pit bill was spayed and neutered this problem would go away in a few years.

[quote][R45], dogs are a species, pit bulls are a breed.

A valid point.

However, the underlying argument - that animals can be bred and discarded for our enjoyment and at our whim - seems to be ethically challenged. Also, as a society, we seem to have gone to great lengths to both create and preserve various breeds, as well as species, of many animals.

As a practical matter, we make few distinctions between the various breeds or species of animals when speaking of conservation - both the Siberian Tiger and Bengal Tiger are Panthera tigris tigris, but no one would argue that letting one die because we still have the other would be a good solution.

Look, I'm not a particular fan of the pit bull. Extinction of the entire breed seems a bit of an over-reaction to the problem.

There's plenty of extinct dog breeds.

Do you weep over the loss of the Paisley Terrier?

The Cordoba Fighting Dog is an extinct breed.

Lovely animal.

They're so misunderstood.

[quote]Do you weep over the loss of the Paisley Terrier?

No more or less than the Saint Helena earwig or Pecatonica River Mayfly before they found new colonies of them.

I live in Chicago in a pretty decent area and there are bit bulls everywhere. What always strikes me is how many of the males aren’t neutered. It would likely quell most of their aggressive instincts, but people are fucking idiots

Deadliest dog breeds:

10. great dane 9. boxer 8. wolf hybrid 7. alaskan malamute 6. siberian husky 5. bullmastiff 4. dobermann pinscher 3. german shepherd 2. rottweiler 1. pit bull

Also, you don't simply solve the problem by allowing the breed to "go extinct." You merely put the next breed into the crosshairs. It wasn't that long ago that Dobermanns were considered vicious dogs.

A number of breeds are on the way to becoming extinct, as shown by the dwindling number of registrations on the UK Kennel Club. But new breeds take their place. Right now they are called designer dogs, eg cockerpoo, labradoodle, etc but after awhile they will be given breed registration. Or a new breed will develop as a result of a genetic mutation.

R56, the most popular breeds by far that I have seen in Italy have been worf-dogs, huskies and malamutes, as well as shiba inus, which looks like they are a similar breed.

My neighbour has one that she calls an English Staffordshire. I watched from the window my nephew walking along the adjoining fence to put vegetable peeling in the compost bin, and I could see it stalking him.

[quote]My neighbour has one that she calls an English Staffordshire. I watched from the window my nephew walking along the adjoining fence to put vegetable peeling in the compost bin, and I could see it stalking him.

Pit Bulls are a generic name that actually covers several different dog breeds, including American Pit Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

People and organizations often use one of these names instead of pit bull for obvious marketing and PR reasons.

Owned one eons ago was very loving. It played with deer in our woods. The bucks would chase our pit and then he would chase them. They just played together.

We have a pit that lives next to us now. Watched it grow up from a pup. While it is very strong, I have yet to see this pit act aggressively with anybody. More of a party animal.

Look at this bull terrier from 1915. It's a crime that the animals have been bred into ugly killing machines.

If I had a large fenced in yard, I certainly would. Two friends of mine in particular have them, and both of them are like big babies. Granted, they'll jump at me when I come over and nearly knock me to the ground, but it's only because they want pet & hugged.

R63 Young Pits can adapt readily to all different living arrangements and once they're out of their terrible twos can be quite lazy, like the one snoring next to me on my davenport

Yes, I used davenport in a pitbull thread.

Where are pit bulls banned internationally:

Yes, force pit bulls into extinction. Pit bulls are violent, dangerous and lethal. Pit bulls do not belong near humans.

To the earlier poster: Hyenas, wolves, tigers are wild animals and live in the wild, not in a domestic setting.