Was Michelle Phillips talented?

I only really knew her from Knots Landing and was a fan. Fan of her in interviews too- very funny and self aware.

Until she had an identity crisis and became Peggy Lipton.

She played the mom in a bizarre movie called "Harry & Max" about two ex-teen idol brothers who have an incestuous gay love affair. She's always been a bit unconventional. Pretty good actress.

She has mean eyes and was the epitome of a pretty blonde hired just because of her looks. She was never even near the talent of others pretty ladies like Jane Birkin or Debbie Harry or Peggy Lipton who had actual substance.

I feel she's only a DL icon because she's a real cunt.

There was a whole thread about VALENTINO here years ago and I watched it after rave reviews of her performance -- she was so, so awful. Just unwatchable.

She was okay on Knot's Landing but it was still stunt casting. There were scenes when she was smiling for no reason or paused because she couldn't remember a word for a second, but she wasn't the only one on nighttime soaps who was mediocre, so it was a good fit for her.

You be the judge

She wasn't that talented. She happened to be in the right place at the right time and of course she had "the look". Influential en wanted to fuck her, and the world was pretty much hers on a silver platter, which is par for the course when you're that cute.

Sorry, influential "men".

She's always seemed emotionally vacant to me in interviews--she talks about her life and people in a way that is very detached and matter-of-fact. I think it likely has to do with her mom dying when she was young, and the fact that she was brought up by an ex-Army father. She doesn't seem to have much emotional intelligence, despite being otherwise whip-smart. Even as a gay man though, I can see why so many hetero dudes fell for her. She possesses an air of mystery, which, paired with her striking looks, is intriguing--at least until you get to know more. I don't know if I'd say she has "mean eyes" as R4 says, but she did have a vacant, doe-eyed look in the '70s. It seems to have softened with age though. I've seen recent pictures where there is a lot more life in her eyes.

She's a sociopath and Bijou is too. Terrible people.

She is one of those people who make me wonder how they continue to make a living/bring in some income. I wouldn't of thought her share of Mamas and the Papas royalties would be terribly lucrative and her acting career was a long time ago and not particularly extensive or successful. Maybe she invested well.

Bijou (and Mackenzie) never had a chance with those parents and step-parents, though. I don't know if Bijou is a psychopath but she's definitely a mess, and you can see why.

Michelle tries to act like she wasn't part of the problem, but she absolutely was. She comes across as though she doesn't care about people.

I agree totally, R12. She's always been cold.

Sorry, Knots Landing without the apostrophe.

I'm very irritated by my own typo.

It's okay, R14! You're amongst friends. Bitchy, horrible friends, but friends. And we'll all talk about this once you leave the room, you know.

[quote]She is one of those people who make me wonder how they continue to make a living/bring in some income.

Marriage, Knots’ Landing/Beverly Hills 90210 reruns, and writing royalties for California Dreamin’ and Creque Alley.

That should have been writer royalties

Her son Austin (with Grainger Hines) turned out fairly handsome. He looks a lot like her.

I'm sure Michelle is living comfortably off royalties from Mamas & the Papas tracks, plus the decades of television she did. Probably invested her money well too. I doubt she's filthy rich/living in a sprawling estate, but I imagine she has a chic bungalow somewhere in Los Angeles where she's living out her remaining years.

Can you imagine the kind of sex she had with Jack Nicholson? I bet it was wild.

NO. 'luck' right place right time which was previously mentioned i think. so

NO.

Wonder if she ever got with McCartney. She seems like his type.

R20's link is awash in interesting vintage photos.

For what it's worth, The Independent quoted Time magazine as stating Michelle had the "purest soprano in pop music." She does have a pretty voice IMO; pretty and "pure" I suppose, albeit somewhat boring because of it. Her vocals were never as interesting or as powerful as Cass's, but there's really only room for one of those in any group. Michelle's image was a large part of what made the Mamas and the Papas successful, paired with Cass's voice, John's writing, and their harmonies which, love it or hate it, Michelle did contribute to.

[quote]but there's really only room for one of those in any group.

Really?

And the Beatles, too, R25. They had a few more than just one.

Cass said many times she had to dial her voice way back because of Michelle's thin vocals. I don't care how pure her soprano was, she was barely adequate in M&P.

Michelle does live a fairly modest lifestyle

In all fairness, Cass would probably have had to dial her voice back even if she'd been singing with Maria Callas. That girl had a super powerful voice.

Cass had the kind of obvious big talent and charisma that transcended her girth and lack of "conventional" beauty. Michelle was chopped liver by comparison.

Regardless of whatever she has done in the past, she is fucking beloved by a number of the old-Hollywood types. Also, check out the piece Vanity Fair did about her 2010-ish. Very cool woman actually, and she has seen A LOT in her day.

I wouldn’t say she’s “Susan Dey cold”.

She had the kind of looks that faded very fast. Kind of like Lauren Bacall. They already looked old by 30.

[quote] She's a sociopath and Bijou is too.

That's nice but she is not Bijou's mother.

Michelle has actually always reminded me of Bacall, R32. They both have similar pouty stares that make them appear hardened and standoffish. It's always seemed to me that with Michelle though, it was misleading (i.e. that she wasn't as icy as she appeared), whereas with Bacall, what you saw was what you got. If you watch interviews with Michelle, she warms up to interviewers, whereas with Bacall, there is almost always a palpable distance/judgment.

Here's an interview with Arsenio Hall, presumably from the late-'80s(?) She does come off as a bit "out there" in a "in her own world"-sort of way, but she's well-spoken and I appreciate her laissez faire stance on sexuality and how she educated her kids about drugs. She seems pragmatic and smart.

[quote]That's nice but she is not Bijou's mother.

One must admit that the sordid rutting going on in that tribe makes the family tree very difficult to discern.

Forget Jack Nicholson, imagine the sex she must have had with Warren Beatty.

IS SHE DEAD?

She completely denounced Mackenzie's claims of incestuous sex with Papa John.

I believed Mackenzie and thought Michelle was just being faithful to John's memory.

Warren Beatty was cute back in the day, but Jack was/is fucking crazy, so I find that sexual pairing much more interesting. He was probably coked out of his mind too. Michelle clearly knew what she was doing though, so I'm sure she handled it like a pro.

Don't forget about her week-long marriage to Dennis Hopper.

I don’t believe Mackenzie. She’s crazy as a loon and was peddling a book. Suddenly ten years after john is planted in the ground we hear these stories?

I think she was sexually fascinated by her father and it was easy to reify her childhood fantasies into a book that people would actually be interested in reading (no one would have otherwise).

And before you get all #metoo on me, multiple women who knew both of them said Mackenzie is full of shit.

Michelle was a whore, darlin'.

Wasn't she in love with Denny Doherty? I remember hearing they had an affair, but I can't recall the details. I've always thought he was absolutely adorable, plus he had a gorgeous, booming voice.

She had a beauty that was very specific to the era, and I don't just mean her style of dress. I've always thought she had a face that sort of epitomized the women of the late-'60s--early-'70s. She was stunning in a natural way, but also looked like she could have been a Manson girl.

I thought he was in love with her. Yes, he was definitely a hottie.

She really annoyed me with that crack in her RRHOF speech about Cass sitting on the moon watching them in a size 6 Thierry Mugler dress.

She thought she was hot stuff. She didn't think her stuff didn't stink.

R43 „Sexually fascinated by her father“?? Which decade are you writing from doctor Freud?

And her father was sexually fascinated with her. And acted on it.

John Phillips became a drug-addled freak. It doesn't take away from his talent, but he was a pig. I believe Mackenzie.

Before the internet in an interview with People magazine, John Phillips made disparaging remarks about Cass. Michelle wrote a letter to People that was published ripping John a new one. I liked her for that.

John was always making nasty comments about Cass' weight. Unfortunately for him, she was the star of the group so he was fucked.

I thought John Phillips was a shallow man. He wrote great songs but he was a troubled man. Michelle had enough grace to leave his behind.

When she was a young teen she was mentored by the daughter of the killer of the Black Dahlia. The daughter’s name was Tamar Hodel. Interesting story.

I thought the Black Dahlia killer remains officially a mystery to this day. The authorities only have Hodel as a suspect.

ITA R48.

I think that is what r56 meant.

Tamar Hodel was played by the exquisite India Eisley in “I Am the Night.”

[quote]And her father was sexually fascinated with her. And acted on it.

So says one book-selling loon and no one else.

I'm not the only one who thinks it's true, turd.

She contributed to the angelic high notes that were an important feature of many of the M&P songs like Monday, Monday. She was an integral part of the group, which is why when they fired her once for cheating on John (again), they had to quickly rehire her when they found out she wasn't so easily replaceable.

She was also the only one of the four that could actually read music.

Michelle added something uniquely sweet, sad and gentle to the Mamas and Papas sound and her beautiful face and body didn't hurt their sales or popularity either.

She may have been at her best singing lead on 'Got A Feelin' , one of their best songs.

Michelle lives near me in Cheviot. Yes, she lives modestly and yes, she has a cool, Spanish home. Drives an older model Mercedes and has one or two mixed breed dogs.

She sang solo on American Bandstand in the ‘70s. I remembered really liked the song but can’t recall what it was and can’t find it on YouTube.

*liking*

Whatever it was that she had really comes across in this video. Playful, sundrenched, Southern California blonde hippie Goddess. She's very attractive here.

No.

R64, it's a nice house- I've been. Cool tiki bar in the backyard.

I've spent time with Michelle. She's very reserved and aloof, until you get a little liquor in her. She's a hoot when lit, and she (and her son) are lit often.

Interesting tidbit: when she and Nicolette Sheridan were playing mother and daughter on "Knots Landing", they were, at one point, dating the same man in real life.

She was terrific in American Anthem, starring Mr. Mitch Gaylord and Ms. Janet Jones...she seriously should have been up for supporting awards

Nureyev HATED her when they were making Valentino. But he wasn't exactly an easy person to get along with.

R72 there were great rumors about it at the time. Michelle was on Merv Griffin's show and he asked her about it. She very professionally said they got along well and gave the usual PR shit. Merv asked if she would work with Nureyev again. Long pause. Probably not.

She looks exactly like Rambova.

She was very pretty for the time, and OP summed up her vocal talent beautifully: clean and crisp, but always thin. The M's and the P's had two standout voices--Mama Cass (who was in a class all her own) and Denny Doherty--and then it had John, who was the arranging genius, and Michelle, who was the eye candy.

She herself admits that her biggest contrinution was restraining Cass's 747 jet engine voice.

Her voice was nothing special at all.

1966's Lana del Rey

She has to be wealthy. California Dreaming was used in a lot of commercials and such until 10 years ago or so (when Mackenzie’s book came out). I always thought she denounced Mackenzie’s book bc she knew it would dry up her revenue stream. She made John give her half of the writing credit for that song. Michelle is shrewd. I think she has a lot in common with her Knots Landing character.

Agreed with the posters above who stated that her beauty was very specific to the time. I’m an eldergay, and there were countless girls in my junior high and high school who sported Michelle Phillips’s straight, center-parted hair.

Her vocals were an integral part of the Mamas and Papas sound.

The “Vanity Fair”’profile mentioned above was indeed excellent, acclaiming Phillips for survivor skills and longevity. The connection to Tamar Hodel and her other girlfriend of that period, Sue Lyon, was fascinating. If memory serves, Phillips and Hodel had to educate Lyon on the specifics of “Lolita” when she met with Kubrick.

She said something once that her father advised her about the character and discipline that are needed to live a hedonistic lifestyle. For better or worse, Phillips has proven that she has the character!

She wrote and sang lead on String Man on the 3rd M&P album,. Cass comes in at the end to drive it home - which Michelle wanted, she arranged the song. I've seen vids of her singing with The New Journeymen and her vocals kept up with John AND Denny. Her soprano at times could come in over Cass on a few songs, like My Heart Stood Still. She is the ultimate survivor of the 60's and that Tarantino movie about Sharon Tate could have just as easily been about Michelle at that time.

Michelle has said that she was a good friends with every one of the victims on Cielo Drive (except the kid in the car).

I've always thought Naomi Watts would've made a great Michelle in a biopic on the Mamas and the Papas. Too late now, obviously.

Genevieve, John Phillip's 3rd wife is DEAD to me.

She stole John from his first wife, Mackenzie's mother, the fallen aristocrat Susan Adams. She had the nerve, as a teen, to prance into housewife Adams's home, sit down, and say - your husband doesn't love you. He is in love with me.

Adams recounts the whole sorry display in an E! True Hollywood story type thing. She later sank into alcoholism and married an abusive man.

Nobody ever said Michelle was poor. She lives within her means.

She looked like the one that got away.... from Chuck Manson.

She’s fabulousl

Michelle was great on Knots Landing. She was one of my favorites.

R81 "It could have easily been Michelle ". This is going to sound harsh but it's kind of too bad it wasn't Phillips instead . Tate was a much better person than any of the degenerate Phillips. I love California dreaming though.

R81 Good points about Michelle's vocals. I first became rather obsessed with the Mamas and Papas as a kid. I love harmonies, and always sensed she was an important if subtle part of their blend. Thanks for reminding me about her lead on "String Man," which is kind of a funny song about groupies. I've often been curious to hear her isolated vocals on their songs, but nothing to be found.

On the "Monterey Pop" live album, she can't be heard at all.

Of course she had talent. And she was gorgeous. I think that's why people on this thread hate her and call her a "cunt."

R83 my casting choice for Michelle in a Mamas and Papas biopic used to be young Jessica Biel, but she's too old now.

She earned a writer’s credit, with John Phillips for “California Dreaming.” Thus, receives royalties for it. She has many gay male friends, too.

Michelle was a good musician with a decent voice for recording; particularly harmonies. The Mamas and the Papas recordings were heavily produced. If you listen to the video at R6, it sounds like they layered two vocal tracks and then reverbed the SHIT out of it. Michelle didn't have a lot of vocal support, so she would nail the pitch when she hit it, but it could waver a bit when she had to hold the note - the reverb helped hide that. What she did have was that thin tone without a lot of overtones, so it didn't compete with Cass' voice. Michelle's high harmonies layered on top of Cass' voice and augmented it beautifully. When they were in unison? Well - she was pretty...

As R91 mentioned, Michelle's microphone was dead at the Monterey Pop festival (there were all kinds of technical issues after the stage got trashed), but you can still hear her when she gets close to Cass. Here is a rare, live recording of The Mamas & the Papas singing on Shindig! It's from '65, so the song versions are pretty different, but you can hear how Michelle's strength was harmonizing. John Phillips knew that and wrote for it. Cass and Denny had great voices. John and Michelle had great ears for harmony. The four of them together were magic, IMO.

Thanks for that link R95, that is rare. I'm always looking for live M&P, and come up pretty much empty. I still would love to hear Michelle's isolated vocals. She blends SO well.

How lucky for John that she was not only a stunner, but happened to have a pleasant voice.

Are you in the music biz, R95?

I always thought the young Kari Michaelson of 'Gimme a Break' could've played Michelle in the story of her life...

I'm not in the music business, R97. I was a music major in college, and I do a lot of (volunteer) musical work with local vocal groups, including writing arrangements. I have a passion for harmonies, and I LOVE The Mamas and the Papas.

Like Michelle, I'm not the best solo singer (unless it's for effect), but I have a great ear. You can put me on any harmony that doesn't naturally "fit," because I can usually land it. I also have a pretty clean tone that tends to complement the voices I'm singing with. I love singing harmonies with a strong, solo singer.

Funny R99 I am in a little amateur vocal group and I'm that person, too.

And let's also remember that Michelle was John's muse. He wrote those beautiful, broken-hearted songs about Her!

Always liked that line Michelle melodramatically screamed at her bandmates, as she stormed out of the recording studio after some quarrel: "I'll bury you all!" Well, she did.

Yes, r94, posted already. She also got writing credits on Creque Alley FYI (also posted).

Thanks for the great clip r95.

I, too, sang tight harmony with a singing group in college, but also got to sing professionally for a couple of decades. Thankfully I could do both solo and back-up work. At the risk of sounding like Regina King’s bitchy role in “Ray” I could sing whatever was needed.

It was just a matter of tempering my voice accordingly (chest/belt, head, falsetto, legit, rock, rough, sweet, etc.) No opera, though. Sometimes I was a featured soloist in some review or Bway., sometimes a star’s backup singer.

As a high tenor it was quite challenging to reach in and come up (down?) with resonant baritone/bass notes, and they tended to sound intense, rather than rich which is what I would have liked.

I danced too, but then again I’m latin and that cane easily, polished with tons of classes of course. Good times.

She was talented at giving blow jobs. She was not in Nancy Reagan's league, but she was skilled nonetheless.

Very true R94. She said in an interview once that John woke her up in the middle of the night and showed her the lyrics to California Dreaming. He said sign your name here and you will never have to work again.

She definitely got to practice on some great dick.

John owed her for basically stealing her girlhood. He married her the minute she turned 18, divorcing his wife and leaving his children for her. She was so out of his league lookswise it was ridiculous. Of COURSE she was going to fuck other men.

Someone asked if she ever got with Paul McCartney. Maybe, but his LA fuckbuddy was Michelle's clone Peggy Lipton, so it's possible Macca didn't feel the urge to go for the other iconic bohemian blonde of the moment.

Michelle DID have that Manson girl look, though she was much prettier than even the prettiest Manson girl, Leslie Van Houten.

A younger Julia Stiles could have played Michelle around 2000 or so.

Yes, I can see that, R109.

Graham Nash talked in his memoir about all the rock guys of the era (himself included) wanting to fuck Michelle. His own attitude was, "Hey, I was ok looking, I was in the Hollies- I had a shot." Don't think he got with her, though.

Mhm, not really seeing Julia Stiles as Michelle. I could see her as Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las, maybe.

She seems oddly detached in interviews.

Michelle's autobiography does not sensationalize The Manson Murders. She barely mentions it. Her book more or less ends as the M&P breaks up, Her path as a teen model who grew up with a Bohemian father and took her from Mexico to LA to San Francisco to New York to the Virgin Islands and back to LA should be a movie. Potentially close to the murderer of The Black Delilah and friends with those murdered at the house on Cielo as well as being around Frank and Mia - she has lived a lively life.

MIchelle's stunning, au courant beauty helped make the Mamas and the Papas famous. Cass had a powerhouse voice, but if both girls in the band had looked like her, they never would have charted.

My favorite photo of Michelle. Just breathtaking.

I love how a beautiful woman of that era could look natural, simple hair and minimal makeup, and a pretty blouse buttoned up to here, a piece of cool jewelry....as opposed to the fake-ass sex symbols of today.

She needs to write a new autobiography. The first one was written in 1986 and came out at almost the same time as (and was probably meant to be a response to) John's book.

At the time they appeared together on the Donahue Show and were literally at each other's throats. I'd kill to find a tape of it.

Michelle was friends with Cass right to the end, though. They spoke not long before her death, Cass placing an international call from London to tell Michelle how her solo concerts were doing.

I don't know if he fucked his daughter, but John Phillips was still an asshole.

Everyone loved Cass

They really did like each other, even though Michelle fucked the love of her life, Denny Doherty.

I respected her for being in the Mamas and the Papas....until I heard she treated Mckenzie Phillips like trash after she publicly said John Phillips repeatedly raped her over and over again.

R95 is the second song sung live as well?

These days Mama Cass is barely obese.

and Michelle is anorexic.

The Manson girls were dogs. Michelle is skinny and had long hair, but was much more beautiful.

Some of the guys were hot. Bobby Beausolei was a stone cold fox.

Michelle had an affair with Denny, but Mama Cast was in love with him. I saw an interview with Michelle (Was it Behind the Music?) about 20 years ago. Michelle said that Mama Case had come to her, begging her to leave Denny alone, that Michelle could have any guy in the world that she wanted, so could she just stay away from Denny? Apparently Michelle couldn't. And it upset Mama Cass. When Michelle told this story, she had a weird blank look on her face, which looked like it was going to break out into a smirk.

Denny later claimed that Cass came to him and begged him to marry her, but Denny was still in the throes of his lust for Michelle.

Michelle makes a cameo appearance in a bio of Rock Hudson. Apparently, she wound up visiting Rock's house just when they were having a "beauties" pool party. Loads of hot mens wearing swim suits lounging around the pool as Rock scanned them looking for possibilities for after the party assignations. Michelle allegedly laughed and said she had done the same thing after she returned home from a long movie shoot.

Didn't she also fuck Polanski behind Sharon's back? I remember hearing or reading that.

I've always thought the rumors about Cass and Michelle being frenemies were bullshit. Cass called Michelle from England the night she died--they were clearly close up to the end of Cass's life. There were tensions between them at times I'm sure, but what friendship doesn't have those?

Cass and Michelle being cute

[quote]There were tensions between them at times I'm sure, but what friendship doesn't have those?

The friendship where the one friend doesn't fuck the guy the other friend asks her to leave alone because she loves him?

Also keep in mind that these people were in their twenties when all that went down. Michelle was just 22, was able to hold her own with Cass on stage, and strikes me as being damn near fearless.

She was amazingly self possessed for such a young woman, especially in those days before women’s lib. I think she was only 17 when they got famous. I’m in my 60s and never had her self confidence. It’s a gift.

I can't imagine looking like this off-the-cuff and not being self-possessed. Michelle was an absolute natural beauty.

I’m wrong, she was 18 when she married Phillips and 21 or 22 when they became famous.

Who wouldn't have wanted to be here for all of her good/bad experiences? She was at the table for so much cool stuff.

Michelle said Cass supported her anytime she defied John or did something on her own, hence supporting her acting career.

As for Michelle's vocals - she is prominent on the M&P reunion album People Like Us - and she sounds good. Cass was disinterested and not on that many tracks. Michelle wrote and sang the witty I Wanna Be A Star,.

R135, which is why that album was a flop- just like Michelle's solo.

Great clip, R95 — thanks for sharing!

Michelle's solo album, Victim of Romance is a cult favorite. It's classic California pop.

R121 - the person who posted that video on YouTube said they were singing live over an instrumental track for "Something Groovy."

Listening to it again, I think I might even have to take back my statement about Michelle & Cass' unison singing. Their voices actually blended together well and created a "layered track" effect when live (which I always attributed to production on the recordings).

I remember her saying "I'll bury you all," in one of the "Behind the Music" style documentaries, R102, so I Googled it, and came up with this great interview. She always seemed so self-aware in her interviews. I love the line, "...and she always encouraged me, although I was obviously inferior to her as a singer," when she was talking about her friendship with Cass.

In her memoir she made no bones about her relatively modest vocal talents, at least compared to Cass. She took pride in her work, but had no overblown ego whatsoever.

Margot Robbie as Sharon Tate with Rachel Redleaf as Mama Cass and Unknown Actress as Michelle Phillips in Tarantino's "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood".

That's a pretty good suggestion of Michelle. I can't wait for this movie.

Out of curiosity, I just google-imaged Rachel Redleaf ("Cass" in the Tarantino movie). She has a good Cass vibe, I approve.

I can't find it online, but when Anne first arrived on Knots and moved into the cul-de-sac, there's a scene where Anne and Mac sing. It's a great clip. There's a clip of Mac and Anne (she's making a move on him and the M&P are playing in the background, but that's not the scene I'm thinking of.

Chynna Phillips loves Jesus now.

Michelle (as Anne) sang Dedicated to the One I Love on Knots in a scene where she was trying to entice Mac? Kind of recall that.

Michelle on Knots was great with the actor who gigolo Nick - they had great comedic timing,. She also shone with Kathleen Noone's Claudia. She wasn't Abby but she was fun.

In that pic at r128, you can see how Michelle feels about Cass just by the way she is looking at her. Denny came (literally) and went and they still kept in touch to the end.

[quote] Chynna Phillips loves Jesus now

?????

Chynna is married to Billy Baldwin. They got married in the Catholic Church in my town. What’s so loving Jesus? Billy is a cafeteria catholic. Did he convert?

Referring to the fact that Chynna is now a card-carrying fundie Christian in league with her BIL Stephen Baldwin. That kind of fundie Xtian, unfortunately.

Did anyone in the wider Philips family other than Bijou make note about Genevieve Waite's passing this week?

Her solo on “Dedicated To The One I Love” was straight up terrible. She was skillful at using her pussy to get nice things though.

Jameson Baldwin, Michelle's granddaughter, has Michelle and Chynna's coloring but is otherwise all Baldwin.

Brooke Baldwin, on the other hand, looks a lot like Michelle. And apparently likes cats.

I don't understand why they didn't have Michelle re-record her solo on "Dedicated" to fix those wavering notes. I know they didn't have autotune then, but surely they could have done more takes?

In OP's photo, Michelle looks a lot like Lily-Rose Depp. Michelle was so beautiful with her long hair in the Mamas & Papas days. But something happened to her looks. I didn't think she was attractive in Knot's Landing, especially w/ short hair. She started looking too much like Julia Philips. Too much Botox and probably a brow lift changed her face.

Are Chynna's kids close to Michelle? There are a lot of posts this week on Chynna's ig re the passing of her elder former nanny, who apparently also took care of her own kids and was called "Gran" by them. I'm just wondering if there's a bit of chill between mother and daughter, esp given Chynna's weird extremist turn, religion-wise. Michelle doesn't seem like she'd stand for that stuff, very no-nonsense.

Lots of great photos of the young Michelle Phillips...

This was an odd but entertaining interview done in 2012.

As It Lays - Michelle Phillips The California dreamer discusses going green, getting arrested and the powerful affects of voodoo.

Wow, no idea Chynna Phillips went fundo

I'm gay as can be, but for some reason I'm completely entranced by pictures of Michy from the '60s. Just a stunner.

Why do we think Chynna is a fundie Christian exactly? She married William Baldwin, not the psychotic born-again Stephen. Could you imagine Michelle at a dinner table with Stephen Baldwin, son-in-law? That'd be an interesting conversation.

Holy cow at R152's picture--Brooke looks more like Michelle than she does Chynna.

Chynna is naturally quite pretty too. She definitely favors her mother, and managed to avoid taking on much of John Phillips's features. Mackenzie has always been the black sheep of all the Phillips kids-- mother was not a looker and she took after her quite a bit, and paired with John's genetics, it wasn't a great turnout. Chynna and Bijou are both very pretty, but they both took after their respective mothers' looks.

Here's Michelle with John and the recently-departed Genevieve Waite, mother of Bijou Phillips. Kind of an odd photo; he has his arm around Michelle, while Genevieve appears to be trying to pull him back toward her. I imagine the story behind this moment is quite interesting.

I hope Michelle is reading this. She must be thrilled. Closing in on 200 posts about her on a gay website. She hasn't had a hit single since 1968.

[quote]I hope Michelle is reading this. She must be thrilled. Closing in on 200 posts about her on a gay website. She hasn't had a hit single since 1968.

True, but she's lived the kind of life that is the makings of a DL legend, so naturally there is plenty to discuss.

Per R151, Jameson definitely has a lot of the Baldwin features, but I still see a LOT of Michelle in there. Both of those girls look more like Michelle than they do Chynna IMO.

Here's a video from last year with Michelle, Bijou Phillips, and Owen Elliott (Cass's daughter) singing "Creeque Alley" with Wilson Phillips. Hard to isolate the vocals on each of them, but it's nice to see them together and copacetic. I've always wondered what Bijou's relationship was like with Michelle. I wonder if there was ever a wicked-stepmother vibe, or if they got along.

OOPS, video here

Here's Michelle opening an interview talking smack about John piggybacking on her book deal. She's never seemed to have trouble speaking her mind on anything, even if it makes her look like a bitch.

John Phillips was SOOOO hot.

Whoever said she had good looks specific to the era is right. Michelle Phillips, Peggy Lipton, Sharon Tate, even Maureen McCormick had that look. My mom graduated from high school in the mid- seventies and every single homecoming queen looked the same in every yearbook. Straight dark blonde hair parted down the middle, pointy nose, good smile.

John Phillips was not "hot." He had beady eyes and was maybe mildly attractive. Denny Doherty was the male eye candy in that band

Today they would all have to be good looking to make it. Mama Cass couldn't even get on American Idol.

Cass had a long face but I still think she was pretty. She might have been stunning had she lost the weight, but we'll never know.

John had a nice lanky swagger and charisma

Wilson Phillips had that reality show several years back. I don't remember getting much of a fundie vibe from Chynna. California green juice yogi, definitely, but not fundie.

Michelle's solo album wasn't cult anything. It stunk.

Chynna is a fundie freak.

Adele is the new Cass.

Susan Dey had that winsome late 60s/early 70s beauty too.

And also Cybill Shepherd.

[quote]every single homecoming queen looked the same in every yearbook. Straight dark blonde hair parted down the middle, pointy nose, good smile.

And many beauty queens as well - here’s Miss USA 1971 (another Michelle!) crowning Miss USA 1972 Tanya Wilson.

I think that Chynna turned to religion when Mackenzie went public with her story about incest. Chynna believed Makenzie but was really angry with her. She felt that Mac should have not made it public. There was tension in Chynna's marriage to Billy because of it too.

Chynna teamed up with a female Christian singer to replace the void of Wilson Phillips.

Winsome.

John Phillips' autobiography is INSANE. He held nothing back at all. A laundry list of sex, orgies, drugs, drug busts, and cheating.

I read it in high school. I'll never forget- there's a scene where John is being pulled over, and to whatever girl he was with he took all the drugs he had in the car and said "Here, shove these up your pussy!" The girl replied "Fuck you! Shove 'em up YOUR ass!" Pure class.

At some point, Roman Polanski was 100% convinced John Phillips murdered Sharon Tate. He held a knife to John's throat demanding he confess.

Papa John was homely. He must have had a big dick.

I attended a "Donahue" taping in 1986. It was a M&P "reunion", minus Cass.

At the end, Donahue asked each what was up next for them and Michelle said "I just did three "Hotel"s back to back" to which John said "That sounds like you, Mich . . .".

LOL, R185!

Some terrific photos at R156, there is one glam “Vogue”-style shot that’s a real stunner.

Uh...I think he held one or two important details back, R183

Adele's no Cass. And yeah, I've always wondered what Cass would have looked like without the weight. I remember expressing that idle thought on a forum maybe 10 years ago and got flamed for fat-shaming, before the term became a thing. "How DARE you imply that she wasn't good enough as she was?"

The "Dedicated" solo was not great singing, but it was incredibly seductive, especially if you knew who was singing it.

Owen Elliot, Cass's daughter, gives us some idea of what a thinner Cass would've looked like.

That winsome 60s look started with models like Jean Shrimpton and Twiggy, and actresses like Mia Farrow. It's popularity lasted until the mid 70s, when the harder edged disco beauties came in, like Farrah and Cheryl. They paved the way for the Glamazons of the 80s. Then the pendulum swung back again with the waifs of the 90s.

All of them were better than the current look, which is entirely based on fillers and implants: lips, cheeks, tits, ass.

That other picture is not Owen- this is.

Oops, okay, R193. Don't know why the one I found was labeled as Owen.

Here's Leah Kunkel, Cass's younger sister (I double checked the ID on the photo). She favors Cass quite a bit, while being much slimmer.

Leah was married to drummer Russ Kunkel. He has played with pretty much everyone in the business, still active.

I lived in Laurel Canyon when I was younger. I look forward to seeing this documentary, Echo in The Canyon.

Thanks for the excellent link r168! Michelle clearly still has the pipes. Good to see her up there.

re her and John's other kids, specifically Bijou (who's also onstage singing in the clip): remember that Michelle took in Tamarlane, John and Genevieve's son and eldest child, around the time Bijou was born due to them being so whacked out on drugs. They couldn't parent anymore. Michelle had a son around the same age, and so moved him right in. He stayed for some time iirc - problems arose when the Philipses wanted him back and Michelle said no, feeling that they weren't sober enough to do so. A court battle ensued, that I believe Michelle eventually lost, but it was this fight alongside other issues that really caused severely bitter feelings between Michelle and John over the years.

Can someone find the Donohue episode?

I think Michelle was interviewed for that doc, R196. I saw some photos of her taken this past month at the premiere for it.

R199 Yes. Michelle is seen talking in the trailer.

Great thread! More great gossip, please!

Is the Roman Polanski threatening John Phillips with a knife story true?

If so, I guess Phillips had a reputation for being insane and even his own friends thought him capable of doing anything....

Was banging teen girls big with that Laurel Canyon crowd? John Phillips, Roman Polanski, and...?

R201 yes. John Phillips tells the whole story of Roman thinking he may have been responsible for the death of Sharon before the Manson Family became the prime suspects. He held a knife to his throat and made him swear he didn't do it. And then he broke down into a heap crying. It was quite sad to read.

The M&P were all interviewed by the police.

WHET to Tam Phillips?

I remember the Donahue ep and have it on VHS somewhere. Some right wing Frau got up and asked Michelle what constitutes a one week marriage. Michelle just replied "A mistake".

R202 That is such a haunting and sad anecdote. I had never heard that before. And I agree that it says volumes about John that one of his closest friends suspected him.

Was banging teen girls big with that Laurel Canyon crowd? John Phillips, Roman Polanski, and...?

All the male stars were banging baby groupies in the early 70s: Sable Starr, Lori Lightning, and their like. The older groupies from the late 60s couldn't compete. Not saying it was right, but it was rampant.

They needed Michelle for the sex appeal and Cass for the voice. They couldn't get both of that in the same person, so settled for 2 women. Separately, the talented one, Cass, still being so grossly overweight, struggled as a solo artist. Her records weren't selling so Cass was desperate to lose weight, taking dangerous diet drugs that damaged her heart and contributed to her death.

I feel for Cass, standing up there next to Michelle night after night. That couldn't have been easy, even if she was the far better singer.

She lost about 100 pounds in the early 70s (going from 300 pounds to 200) but couldn't keep it off. I wonder why she was so overweight? That was unusual for the time period: Was she a compulsive eater or did she have some kind of medical condition?

[quote]WHET to Tam Phillips?

Tamerlane is probably still obsessed with his Indian guru.

Supposedly Cass's Polish-Jewish grandmother survived the Holocaust and was obsessed with her always having plenty to eat.

Besides - would Cass have had the same powerful voice without the weight?

I'm no vocal expert, but vocal power is about the diaphragm, isn't it? I don't think weight affects that.

I had no idea she grew up partially in Mexico City and written Spanish is her native writing style from going to Mexican schools.

It seems like Michelle had lived about 3 lifetimes by the time she was 30.

I really wanted to defend her, then I watched the youtube video of her singing with Wilson Phillips?

I shut up real quick like.

Apparently Michelle's only sister, Russell Ann, was a practicing attorney in LA and died just a few months ago. She was living back in Mexico where they were both raised. Interesting family:

I thought her daughter chynna was prettier and had a better voice.

R207 Polanski and Tate lived on Cielo Dr. in Benedict Canyon not Laurel Canyon. If you want to know more about groupies in the 70s, Pamela Des Barre has written a lot of books about her life as a groupie. Her nickname was Miss Pamela. The character of Penny Lane (Kate Hudson) in the film Almost Famous was based on Miss Pamela.

According to Wikipedia, her lovers included: Mick Jagger, Jimmy Page, Keith Moon, Nick St. Nicholas, Noel Redding, Jim Morrison, Chris Hillman, Gram Parsons, Waylon Jennings, and actors Brandon deWilde, Michael Richards, Woody Allen and Don Johnson. She married musician/actor Michael Des Barres.

Confessions of a Groupie: I'm with the Band (1987)

Take Another Little Piece of My Heart (1992)

Rock Bottom: Dark Moments in Music Babylon (1996)

Let's Spend the Night Together (2007)

In Bed with 24 Groupies (2008)

Interview w/ Pamela linked below

Miss Pamela's book was wonderful, she really captured the era and, despite all her adventures, comes out looking sweet and unaffected. She's very nice in person, gives "rock tours" of Hollywood where you ride around and she tells her stories, I did it a few years ago and it was super fun.

Michael Des Barres is the 26th Marquis Des Barres (below a duke but above an earl). Is Miss Pamela a marchioness?

Excerpt from the interview w/ Michael liked below.

“Pamela wrote about her first impression of Michael in her first memoir I’m With the Band: Confessions of a Groupie, calling him “a degenerate drug-taking sex-dog toting two bottles of Southern Comfort, wearing two dozen silver bracelets on each arm” and “...a well-bred lunatic with an abundant vocabulary who drank like a school of fish.”

Michael is a engaging storyteller just like Pamela. He has a radio show on Sirius. I bet it’s good.

The Silverhead music video, Rolling With My Baby, in the article is horribly out of sync.

R220 I only read Pamela's first book. I didn't know she had all of those others. I want to read them.

Strange Young Girls from the M&P's 2nd album could have been a calling card for the Manson girls. It's a rare, rare track that had Jill Gibson singing lead. They left her voice on the track for the album even though Michelle had re-joined the group,.

"Strange Young Girls" was Jill? Really?

But yeah, the Manson girls - you're right.

I have never gotten the appeal of Michelle. In those pics at r156, she looks surly and listless, like a bratty teen who is mad because she can't take the car this weekend.

So I asked my mother today if Mama Cass would be considered obese by today’s standards. Mom replied “she was obese by any standard.”

R139 Thanks for posting that great interview. The best part was her final quote:

["As for The Mamas & The Papas movie, Phillips maintains it will be made at some point, so as our interview winds down I ask who will play her. The singer smiles as she hits upon just the right answer: "You know, I don't think that girl has been born yet."]

R221 I just read that Pamela and Michael Des Barres are divorced.

R168 Is that Michelle Phillips? or Divine???

Jill was on several tracks that were never redone, not just that one. At least 6.

I've always found Michelle's vocals to have an angelic quality about them, especially in those Mamas and Papas harmonies. She's also one of those people who has always looked effortlessly cool, to the point that it's almost annoying. I don't know if it's the way she dressed or her physical features (probably a combination of both), but she's always had a look that demands a double-take.

She is one of those people who's always had really prominent, large upper teeth that stood out, even when her mouth is only slightly agape. I don't know if it's because of an overbite or just simply the way her jaw sits, but it gave her a distinct look.

R230 As a dedicated M&P listener since I was a kid - every single song - I'm fascinated by the discussions of where Jill's voice appears. Can you site other specific examples?

R233, there is a fairly detailed explanation on Jill's Wikipedia page under the Mamas and Papas section.

More on that second album and who sang on which songs.

For anyone interested, Alison Martino posted some pictures and video from last night's screening of Echoes at the Cinerama Dome on her Instagram.

She was given song writing credit for MATP songs she didn't even write. John Phillips gave her credit for California Dreaming even though she was asleep when he wrote it.

I posted the link above, but even Michelle isn't sure which songs she is on- so if she can't pick out her own voice, I doubt anyone else could.

Love Alison Martino!

I became a huge M & P fan as a 10-11yo, had all their albums. But it was only in the last decade that I learned about Jill.

The funny thing is, when I look back to being a kid listening intently to that "Jill" album, I realize I subconsciously thought Michelle's voice sounded somehow different in spots. Hard to explain. Like in "Trip, Stumble and Fall," which Jill claims she sang. Guess I had a good ear for a kid.

Been reading more on Jill Gibson - she says she sang the "No!" on "Words of Love." Fun tidbit.

Was Michelle Phillips talented?

In her own way, she was: she was talented for hooking up with the 'right' guy, at the right moment.

Michelle rode some choice cock in her day.

I remember reading that when Chynna began dating, Michelle kept a basket of condoms by the front door and encouraged Chynna and her date to help themselves on the way out.

R243, she talks about encouraging Chynna to use protection in the interview posted by R35. She explains that she was raised the same way by her father, who told her and her sister to let him know when they were sexually active, and he would arrange them access to birth control so they wouldn't get pregnant. Her stance on it is rather pragmatic—smart, really, though probably considered a bit too forward for a woman during that era. She also mentions in the interview that Fox executives had a meltdown when she talked about condoms on the Joan Rivers Show several years before, and then went on to air condom commercials.

She's managed to have a decent career with minimal talent. Must give a hell of a blowjob.

[quote] Jill had already recorded with surf duo Jan & Dean and in three weeks flat she learned Michelle’s parts while the group was away in London.

They make it sound like three weeks is a very short time to learn vocal parts for 20-30 pop songs, when actually it’s more than enough time if treated as a full-time job.

....

Even though the M&P were more of a studio group, they had sung together in various incarnations for years. With those intricate harmonies, 3 weeks is nothing.

R243 yeah, I remember reading that condom basket story, too. I guess it was smart, but still makes me cringe a little.

Why do I picture Michelle being the 'Cool Mom' to Chynna the way Amy Poehler was the 'Cool Mom' in Mean Girls

Well, I mean if anybody ever had the right to the title of "Cool Mom," it's Michelle Phillips.

R157's video.. That interviewer was annoying as shit.

"Michelle rode some choice cock in her day."

Not the least of whom was the beautiful Denny.

This thread is about as dead as Michelle's career.

I thought she had a pretty voice, but Cass's overpowered hers significantly in recordings. It's true too that Michelle was a notorious slut, and a completely unabashed one at that. She got some prime dick in the '70s.

I was just reading Papa John's book. I think if I could be rich and famous in any era, it would be mid to late '60s Los Angeles. He paints quite a picture. Beautiful, warm summer nights in fantastic mansions up in the hills, far away from the rabble. Hot girls and boys skinny dipping in luxurious swimming pools. Bowls of cocaine and 'ludes. Hot debauchery. And then spending the days in recording studios with musical geniuses, being creative.

Of course, it eventually all went to shit. But 1965 to 1967 sounds Utopian to me.

She is a talentless cunt. Only skated by on her looks. I’ll never forget how this bitch treated McKenzie for coming out as a survivor of incest. Seems old John wasn’t right in the head. Getting high with his daughter and fucking her is about as vile as it gets. Michelle screeched about how Kenz was full of shit. How would that old hag know? She wasn’t in the room getting fried with them! Even Denny’s daughter said it was true. Denny told his wife about that gross shit as he was totally traumatized by it. Don’t blame him.

Watching "Shampoo" for the first time (and finding it fab-looking but somewhat boring and pointless, I have to find a thread on this movie), I recognized Michelle talking to Warren Beatty in a party scene (reminiscent of the one in 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood").

I also recently saw in the documentary "Echo in the Canyon." Strange to see her looking, as someone in that film's thread said, like a midwestern grandma.