Gay men love straight men because gay men are naturally more feminine and attracted to masculinity... Do you agree?

[quote]So I saw a guy on Twitter argue that gay men are naturally more feminine on average.

who is this guy you "saw a guy on Twitter"?

LINK, please.

@R1 Wait I will try to find it again on Twitter

[quote]there's more bottoms than tops

Physically there must be a top for every bottom.

Are you posting from 1950?

[quote]That's why gay men secretly or not so secretly love straight men because they embody masculinity to them.

NOT TRUE. Gay men prefer gay men in general.

[quote]In fact he claimed truly masculine gay men are an oddity and tend to be attracted to more feminine presented gay men anyways.

Not in my experience. They don't like femmes, but other butch queens.

[quote]so gay men liking other gay men is more of an oddity.

Nonsense. They love each other A LOT...and if DL is anything to go by, they reject men who don't have "the gay look"...even gay men who don't have the "gay look" - the cropped hair, super-clean, gay gym bodies etc...

Your argument was written by a straight man in 1962. We know better now.

[quote]That's why most gay men are alone because they hope that some masculine straight man will maybe make an exception for them he sucked their dick but that won't happen.

Most gay men are NOT alone. Not the ones I know. They have tons of friends.

Why would anyone pay attention to what some guy says on Twitter? That's how we got in this mess in the first place.

Statistically, I would assume that you are correct OP (this is qualitative data however - and impossible to quantify). Every society has stereotypes of what "masculinity" is, what a masculine male should be interested in and how a masculine individual should behave. I will say that I have met literally hundreds to thousands of straight, married fathers who behave far more "effeminate" than myself or most of my gay friends for that matter. Funny enough, my anecdotal observations were very geographic in nature. Dallas, Kansas City and Los Angeles were swarming with very effeminate straight men (often times married, with children and seemingly only interested in females). Other cities have been much less so.

R7 women are making them more effeminate

I agree, OP. Makes sense. I know that's the case for me and I'm sure for many gay men. I think most of us consciously or subconsciously want to be women. I'm attracted to the effortless masculinity embodied by straight men. I've rarely found that quality in other gay men. Many of my FBs throughout the years have been straight identified married guys. They give me the masculinity I crave, and I think I fill for them an emotional longing, but they are primarily attracted to women. These aren't gay guys who had to marry women and live on the DL. Yes I'm a fucked up person, but so are most people.

@R9 I don't really want to be a woman though. I also think a love life like yours would be miserable to me.

Every sister dreams of having a str8 guy's baby!

R9 I don't want to be a woman at all - nothing about it has ever seemed interesting to me. Quite the opposite - I'm a man, and I love men. So, I tend to steer clear of fem-acting men. If I'm a man, and I desire other men, why would I want a feminine-acting guy?

I get your point, though.

Gay men love straight men because of the "forbidden fruit" syndrome. It's pure OCD, and those who suffer from it should see a psychiatrist immediately.

R9 i am a curious guy who wants to meet some gay guy. Why? Because they seem to go for sex easily and are a lot more effeminate on average than straight men. Sorry if i offended anyone for saying this but i do not see this type of behaviour on actual hetero guys. Anyways, from learning this so-called butch queen word, they still seem feminine to me. It is the opposite of what i am and look that i am seeking. Also, this is no lie for all you posters who want to say that i am bull shitting or that i am a repressed gay. I know that is not the case because i was not born gay and i am in my late twenties. I can very easily spot some gay effeminate and i do get lustful feelings and that same type of guy i seen was watching me first before i noticed. I just do not want to get caught in all this potential problems. I can also identify a lot with this nathan guy that is boyfriend with jeffrey star btw. One last thing, i think the more feminine gays are probably the most attracted to masculine men, specifically straight identified or the ones with the demeanour of one. Hope i do not get highly criticized for this post

Somewhat off topic - this straight guy that used to live near me became a somewhat intimacy buddy. It started out with us being neighbors, then we drank a lot one night, and he was near passing out. He called his wife and said he was just going to crash at my place. He got into my bed. I felt super awkward, and wasn't sure what his intentions were. We didn't do anything sexual, but he was just major snuggly - all night. When we woke up, he just stayed for a short while, snuggled and we talked. He explained that, "I'm sure that was weird, but have you ever just wanted some kind of man-to-man intimacy? I wish straight guys could be a little less tough all the time, and actually show emotion." We continued chatting for a bit, then he went home like it was just a perfectly normal intimate sleep over.

I forgot where I was going with that, but it seemed relevant when I started.

I truly believe that homosexuality is a third gender, trapped somewhere on the spectrum between men and women. We're not exactly women, but we're not exactly men either, at least not in the traditional sense. Same for lesbians. And I'm not some self loathing gay guy. Just my 2 cents from my experience of living my life as an out gay man for 30+ years.

Overall, OP is correct. There are exceptions

As one fabulous elder sister who preferred only str8 guys explained it: "What are two women going to do with each other"!?

No r13. It’s the attraction of conventional masculinity, of men who play basketball/football, not men who fixate on divas. It’s attraction of men who are chill and laid back and don’t emulate vicious women, who aren’t into Golden Girls or Drag queens.

Mary r15 rimmed her neighbor while he slept!

False. Human beings desire and fetishize the unobtainable. If I sort of want it and it is very difficult or impossible to have I will REALLY want it. Why? Our imaginations cannot function in the presence of their objects, so the less available the less obtainable the object is the more I can I imagine about it. Imagination is the soil of desire.

Hot Women can attain plenty of macho ubermasculine dudes, but they still are attracted to very masculine men, often to their detriment. The large majority of people attracted to males, are naturally attracted to masculinity in them.

OP, your post reads like a sixth grader's essay on a subject far too complex for his limited brainpower.

Lots of straight men are attracted to feminine, sexy lesbians. Love seeing them have sex, fantasize of about being the one to turn them. This is all fine and considered a normal part of male sexuality. Gay men attracted to hot straight guys has to be about self loathing and something we have to analyze. Bullshit.

Naw, it’s all about being masculine.

I have never wanted to be a woman, consciously, subconsciously, when high, when drunk, what the fuck ever. If a man I find attractive is straight it pretty well negates the interest. Married men and other men I have slept with, who were understood to be straight, were clearly not. Just closeted.

Any gay man who finds straight men attractive because they are straight is an vacuous idiot. You have a whole life to work out and get over whatever hang ups and self hatred the culture you grew up in has instilled in you. Better to get working on that than reinforcing pointless behaviour that wastes time. Yours and theirs.

I'm not particularly into straight men, there's more of them but that's it. I don't find most of them too masculine, nowadays, so there's also that.

R24 plenty of other women who are feminine for that. Moreover, lesbians in real life are a lot more masculine than what movies potray which is a major turn-off. I have not thought of any actual lesbians because there is no point. There are bisexual women for that. So it is a false equivalency on your part

It’s true. “Masculine” is the most sought trait in make4male profiles and ads, by far. I know of countless bi and gay guys who have no interest in any male unless he is completely masculine and lose interest as soon as a guy displays any nonmasculine or stereotypically gay trait. Unfortunately, a lot of openly gay guys display observably unmasc traits and mannerisms, which makes them especially unattractive to a huge percentage of gay and bisexual men.

Does this guy give you wood OP?

It’s interesting to see many same/sex attracted women are only attracted to conventionally feminine women and bemoan the lack of fem Lesbians.

Male4male profiles

I'm attracted to men not women. If a man is effeminate, it's a turn off for me. While being effeminate or wanting to dress and act like a woman are unfortunately traits that have been thrust on gay men, not being attracted to that does not make you self loathing.

Any gay male that looks indoctrinated to me ( tank tops, tattoos-the types you see for ads for GAY cruises) is a total turn off. I find it attractive when a guy doesn't conform to the prevailing gay aesthetic.

So many dating profiles seeking straight4straight. A lot of ads explicitly say “no gays.” It’s fascinating

I agree r34, although interests, hobbies, mannerisms, speech, language are just as important to me

No they are not.

Gays who say this are usually bitchy gay men who only hang out with pretentious mean girls rich types. The truth is that actually normal and masculine gay guys are too boring for them and have no access to “A-list” places, so they don’t meet in the same social circles.

I think that 'most' gay men are attracted to masculinity, but I most certainly do not agree that gay men are naturally more feminine. That's one of the more ridiculous statements about gay men I've ever read.

It’s been said that gay male culture makes gay men unattractive to other men.

In 2013 I went on a gay cruise. I took a nonstop flight from JFK to Venice. Not surprising the plane was packed. There were plenty of gay males on the flight. I had to walk past the first class seats to get to my economy seat. I see these two queens sitting next to each other (probably a couple) talk about indoctrinated! They had major builds, tank tops, the haircuts etc. I doubt they were even aware of just HOW indoctrinated they were. They were probably perfectly nice but I found that type of gay male a TOTAL turn off.

Gay men are attracted to straight men because in our formative years during the puberty times, who are you checking out? The other guys in your school, the popular boys, the jocks, usually the same ones the teen girls are crushing on. More often than not you are having dreams about the football quarterback and not the president of the drama club. And yes I know that many of us "settled" for the president of the drama club or someone in choir just so we could have sex with another male in high school, but that didn't stop us from lusting after "Jackson the lacrosse stud" with his straight boy swagger and panty dropping good looks.

While teen girls, grow into adult women who become more pragmatic in their choices for partners; that teen boy who lusted after the quarterback never goes away for gay men. It stays with us and affects our choices in who we date and who we partner with for many years. Gay porn tapped into it when we saw a bunch of sites built around the "straight" jock white boy look. Those sites were such game changer for gay men, that studio porn is almost dead and ushered in a new generation of guys who don't like labels like straight or gay.

OP we all get such wisdom from Twitter!

Most so-called mascdudejockbros are either utterly delusional or they have to work 24/7 at maintaining a simulacrum of "butch" lest it come falling down like a house of cards (think Elizabeth Holmes and her "smart, serious" voice).

There's a huge misconception that having muscles and body hair, being athletic, etc. makes you masculine. Thus, guys like Gus Kenworthy, Dr. J@ke, Kyle Krieger, Billy Santoro, and Austin Wolf are masc.

I agree OP! Also there are more straight men and we grew up around men/boys that identified themselves as straight.

Shit like that makes me glad I am a biological woman. I can't imagine being attracted to masculinity and only having gay men as an option as half of them seem quite feminine. There's nothing wrong with it but I imagine it can be incredibly frustrating in an already limited dating pool.

I've always been attracted to men who are masculine but don't intentionally put their masculinity on display hoping everyone will notice how butch they are. Straight or gay, if you do that you're just a typical poseur and very sad.

Still waiting on that tweet, OP.

Every. One. Is. Different.

Totes OP. You adorbs.

The male fantasy types are football players, jocks, firemen, military, bad boys, frat boys, urban guys with cocky swag, even blue collar men who build and fix things. These protypes are opposite of what many openly gay men are.

Even women lust for Alpha males and bad boys

Major turn off for me is a guy who is: SCENEY, QUEENY and BITCHY!

Like that character on GIRLS. Elijah.

Do masculine guys watch Girls?

FALSE.

Plenty of gay men are attracted to effeminate men.

And about 1/3 of straight guys are effeminate, too.

So ditch your bigoted mind, OP. The dick wants what it wants. And most people don’t discriminate based on whatever narrow ideas you have of men.

What? People aren’t attracted to guys who call males “gurl,” watch drag shows, keep up with female celebrities, and are bitchy and sassy?

A study conducted by Eric Schrimshaw, PhD, at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health and Martin J. Downing, Jr., PhD, of the National Development and Research Institutes, found evidence that men having sex with men use the Internet to find sexual partners who do not identify as gay, either to fulfill a fantasy or because it allows anonymous sexual encounters without discovery. The findings are online in the journal, Psychology of Sexual Orientation and Gender Diversity, published by the American Psychological Association.

To examine the subgroup of men seeking non-gay-identified (NGI) men in the online sexual marketplace, the researchers reviewed 1,200 Internet personal ads posted on Craigslist and selected 282 for analysis and performed comparisons of two categories of personal ads: those seeking encounters with NGI men, including straight, bisexual, married, curious, and men on the "down low" (those who usually identify as heterosexual but have sex with men); and a contrasting set of ads that did not specifically seek NGI men. Craigslist was chosen because it is publicly accessible, highly trafficked, free-of-charge, and widely used by gay, NGI men seeking men, or men who have sex with men and women to find sexual partners.

Among the ads studied, 11% were placed by men seeking NGI partners. Although men who posted NGI-seeking ads were more likely to self-identify as bisexual, married, and/or discreet and to seek out an anonymous encounter relative to the ads of comparison men, only 24% of online advertisements seeking NGI men were posted by men who were themselves non-gay-identified. This suggests that many of the posts are placed by gay men seeking NGI men, perceived by some gay men to be more masculine, dominant, or "straight-acting."

It's trans rhetoric.

For them, gay men are just women who are too afraid to transition.

As a top, I'm fine with feminine men. It usually (95%) of the time it means I'll get to fuck and they'll enjoy it. Of course it's awesome to meet a really masculine bottom too. Either way, the thrill is having my cock inside a man. I like gay porn, two men fucking. It's the man on man thing that's such a turn on. Not attracted to man on woman or any variation of that.

So, everybody F & F’d r9, right?

THE FUCK I want to be a woman. I’m far too lazy and not petty enough. Femininity is WAY too much work and effort. NO FUCKING WAY.

I’m not going to live my life trying to please and fit in with everybody, either.

Lol, you poor eldergays that are still stuck in these old ass ideas of gender and sexuality. Gay men are attracted to men, period. Some gay guys are more open minded/bi/pan than others so some guys like myself (gay leaning bi top) are into some women, trans men/people, and feminine men as well.

I like men with some feminine qualities and features too. I often get admonished here for posting guys showing off their "womanly" asses.

Gay men love straight men because gay men usually wear more caftans and are attracted to the masculinity of straight men who don't wear caftans... Do you agree?

Poppycock! I get plenty of dick.

Gender, like race, are social constructs with no biological basis. I think we as humans, are finally starting to move away from these rigid structures. You have the capacity to be sexual and in love with everyone and anyone. I wish people would just go out and make their own choices, live their best lives and stop caring what everyone else is doing.

I like men. all kinds of men. i'm not picky (anymore). I NEED A MAN!

R64, I applaud your sentiments. But I don't see that 'race' is entirely a social construct, anymore than 'blonde', 'brunette' or 'red-head' is.

R50, those aren't prototypes, they're stereotypes. That's not to say there's anything negative about being a fireman, etc., or being attracted to a specific type, but defining whatever doesn't fit that niche as feminine isn't accurate for most people, gay, straight or bi. IMO.

˄˄ And yes, I know you know they're stereotypes, but there is a sense on this thread that fantasy types represent the pinnacle of masculinity, and anything else is to be derided as unworthy.

Its not just on this thread. There is a reason male strippers and porn stars tend to portray themselves as firemen, cops, soldiers, fratboys, country good ole boys, construction workers, etc. These represent society’s most popular erotic fantasies of masculine ideals.

Don’t forget mechanics!

And football 🏈 players!

OP - “ Gay men love straight men because gay men are naturally more feminine and attracted to masculinity... Do you agree?”

No. QUEENY gay men love straight men because QUEENY gay men are naturally more feminine and attracted to masculinity...

There, I fixed it for you.

Thanks for your concern, Yevgeny

More masculine gay and bi men generally prefer masculine dudes also. Hence, the masc4masc movement.

You're just jealous of the power pussy wields.

The VILLAGE PEOPLE had most of the gay ideals covered: The Cop, The Construction/Telephone Worker etc.

[quote] FALSE. Plenty of gay men are attracted to effeminate men.

Plenty of women are attracted to effeminate men. I big chunk of straight men are effeminate.

Ha! Telephone worker?

Heterosexual male gym rats, rejoice! Women, when asked in a study to judge photos of men's bodies, rated the strongest men as the most attractive. Height and leanness were appealing attributes, too, but strength played an outsize role in the ratings of a man's torso, per a report published Tuesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

“No one will be surprised by the idea that strong men are more attractive,” said study author Aaron Lukaszewski, an evolutionary psychologist at California State University at Fullerton. “It's no secret that women like strong, muscular guys.”

There was no nuance to these results, he said. Zero of the 160 women surveyed showed a statistical preference for weaker men.

“That is so obvious, people are going to wonder why scientists needed to study it,” said Holly Dunsworth, an anthropologist at the University of Rhode Island who was not involved in the research. “And the answer would be because they want to know how these preferences evolved.”

Lukaszewski and his co-authors created a photo database of shirtless or tanktop-wearing male college students, all from the University of California at Santa Barbara. The men's heads were digitally obscured. Dunsworth described the overall effect as “faceless, soulless blockheads” above naked torsos. “It’s nice to see evolutionary psychology treating everybody like pieces of meat,” she said, “not just women.”

Sixty of the shirtless men were recruited from the university gym; 130 were students enrolled in psychology courses. The researchers quantified the students' physical abilities via weightlifting machines, grip strength tests and other measures.

My guess is that the OP is about 16- needs to live and learn and read a bit more about human sexuality-

Our understanding of sexual attraction and homosexuality has advanced a tad since 1940.

It's true for me. Masculine men to the front. Straight men are naturally more masculine. Stop kidding yourselves. They don't worship female pop stars and lipsynch to them and dance around in their rooms. Sometimes a fem can be cute and sweet if he has enough masculinity. But.....

Straight men a generally more masculine but certainly not always. Plus the desire for me is man on man sex, so it's so hot when both men involved want sex with each other. Straight men do not want to have sex with men. Sure they might given certain circumstances. I'm attracted to guys that I want and guys that want me. There's a mutual desire and things can get scorching hot. Straight men would have limits and restrict the fun. No thanks.

I think a lot gay and bi guys are seeking mostly straight dudes who only have sex with men situationally or exceptionally

So many gay guys are vying to be the lone exception to a straight male’s “I don’t have sex with dudes” rule.

Why hasn’t this thread been F & F”ed out yet?

YEah, a lot of men use gay men to establish their superior manhood, masculinity, and straightness. They use their contrast with openly gay men to bolster their identity and self-confidence. They now use gay men to gain internet fame and popular. Instagram male fitness models use gay men to whip them into a thirsty frenzy of followers and fame, only to assert they are heterosexual. It’s the “thanks dude, but I’m straight” trope.

^^^YUP

OP is an idiot, I agree this whole thread sounds like it comes out of the 1950's subculture, where it was assumed in a gay couple one was the "man" and the other the "women". These stereotypes are seriously out of line with our modern day gay culture. Grow up asshole it is 2019, it is so annoying reading these threads about self-loathing gays that worship only straight men. As liberated gay men, we have a large pool of men to chose. Frum uber butch gay men to super femme gay men and most of us in between. we don't need straight guys to fulfill our sexual needs. Only you retro assholes are still somewhat befuddled by this concept

This is just the babbling of an uneducated twit and his ilk.

I'm not feminine. I'm a very masculine man and I prefer only other really, really masculine men. I'm grateful to my dad for ensuring that I am a really masculine man.

Butch? I don’t want a “butch” dude. That’s an archaic gay affection that repels me, like something from the Castro or leather bars. I am only attracted to mainstream masculine dudes.

And that's why you never have sex.

Straight men are pretty amazing. I'm a superfemme gay guy and I feel like straight men are like a whole different species compared to me. They fascinate me and inspire all types of crazy lust. Yes I eroticize them, maybe because they have some essential component of being a "man" that I've always lacked and crave to have, even as a kid. Again, in short, they're amazing.

[quote]The male fantasy types are football players, jocks, firemen, military, bad boys, frat boys, urban guys with cocky swag, even blue collar men who build and fix things. These protypes are opposite of what many openly gay men are.

Yeah, uneducated.

I mean gay men are generally more well educated so they won't be "jobs we have when we weren't able to pass this or that class."

won't have. fuck.

This thread has been done

to

DEATH

That’s a myth. There are a lot of gay men who are blue collar; they just aren’t living stereotypical gay ghetto lives and often no one even knows they are gay

r34 Me too, I can't stand those gay men who act and look like circuit "queens" clones with their hairy chest 😷, this is a pass for me.

r90 So you don't like the word "Butch" and therein lies the problem. Butch does have the connotation of "gay". But because "masculine dudes" is now the bro-ish term for "straight" all types of gay men are using it - duh it's the new "butch". Really you self-hating gay guys are the worst.