Russian Plane Crash

Whatever

I hope no hot guys were harmed

Was it a 737 MAX aircraft?

At our regular Friday night AA meeting here last week there was a SCORCHING hot Russian number, 30 something, with a young stinkfish that we presumed to be his daughter. We melted at the sound of his heavily accented voice.

my God there wasn't even anyone there to help when they landed. no fire trucks or airport personnel. What a way to treat your people. Maybe if Putin wasn't so busy trying to run the rest of the world he would have time to take care of his own people.

Show me a hot Russian man please. I've never seen one.

In the bad old days of the Soviet Union they wouldn't report plane crashes if no foreigners were on board.

Boeing?

Sukhoi Superjet 100

Accidents and incidents

On 9 May 2012, a demonstration flight directly struck the 7,200-foot (2,200-metre) high Mount Salak in Indonesia, killing all 45 on board: the TAWS was ignored by the pilot, distracted by a conversation with a potential customer.

On 21 July 2013, during autoland evaluation with a single engine in a crosswind at Keflavík Airport in Iceland, the plane hit and slid down the runway with the gear up. During an intended go-around, the fatigued pilot throttled down the wrong engine, the plane did not have enough energy, continued to lose altitude and hit the runway even if the pilot realized his mistake and throttled up the engine. One of the five crew was injured during evacuation, the Icelandic Aircraft Accident Investigation Board investigated the event and issued nine recommendations. ] The aircraft was repaired and flew again on 27 December 2013.

On 10 October 2018, a Yakutia Airlines SSJ100 slid off the runway at Yakutsk Airport as the main landing gear collapsed. All 87 passengers and five crew were safely evacuated and none were seriously injured The excursion may have been caused by ice on the runway or the airstrip's poor state of repair.[126] The airliner is damaged beyond repair and should be written off.

On 5 May 2019, Aeroflot Flight 1492 reported an onboard fire and made an emergency landing at Sheremetyevo International Airport, Moscow. Out of the 78 passengers onboard, 65 survived the accident and 13 have currently been reported as dead.[128]

I don't know how any survived, the plane was ablaze when it landed.

thoughts and prayers

Another view

Many of the dead were due to dumb passengers blocking the aisles as they tried to save their carry-on luggage.

[quote] A flight attendant who attempted to rescue some of the 73 passengers from the blaze was said to be among the dead. He was named locally as Maxim Moiseev.

So probably at least one gay guy victim.

[quote] my God there wasn't even anyone there to help when they landed. no fire trucks or airport personnel.

Russia at beast has ALWAYS been a second world economy, but one with an inexhaustible supply of cannon fodder.

R15 that flight attendant is not dead. He's in surgery/ICU.

That;s why we always try to sit in the front of the plane.

> Many of the dead were due to dumb passengers blocking the aisles as they tried to save their carry-on luggage.

THIS. It's your fucking life, you morons. Materialistic things can be replaced. You and your fellow passengers CANNOT.

R17 doesn't matter. You could have some 'body positive' type blocking the exit.

Ivana Gedafukov

Princess Kumoniwannalaiya

In Russia, plane boards you!

I don’t know why anyone would fly a Russian plane. And why those stupid people are willing to put up with incompetence - even in the era of capitalism. Dysfunctional and miserable existence.

R23 are you really that obtuse? It's a domestic flight. Small airlines are often monopolists. There are no other options. A train journey would take days.

[bold]Aeroflot Flight 593[/bold] was a regular passenger flight from Sheremetyevo International Airport, Moscow, to Kai Tak Airport in Hong Kong. On 23 March 1994, the aircraft operating the route, an Airbus A310-304 flown by Aeroflot–Russian International Airlines, crashed into a mountain range in Kemerovo Oblast, Russia, killing all 63 passengers and 12 crew members on board.

No evidence of a technical malfunction was found. Cockpit voice and flight data recorders revealed the presence of the relief pilot's 12-year-old daughter and 16-year-old son on the flight deck. While seated at the controls, the pilot's son had unknowingly disengaged the A310's autopilot control of the aircraft's ailerons. The autopilot then disengaged completely, causing the aircraft to roll into a steep bank and a near-vertical dive. Despite managing to level the aircraft, the first officer overcorrected when pulling up, causing the plane to stall and enter into a corkscrew dive; the pilots managed to level the aircraft off once more, but by then the plane had lost too much altitude to recover and crashed into the Kuznetsk Alatau mountain range.

AP is reporting a higher death toll.

Russian officials have given out conflicting numbers on a fiery airline accident at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport, but they indicate at least 40 people died.

Elena Markovskaya, a spokeswoman for Russia’s Investigative Committee, said at a briefing early Monday that 41 people died in the accident Sunday evening and 37 people survived.

But Health Minister Veronika Skvortsova said later that 38 people survived, though without giving a death toll.

The fire aboard the Sukhoi SSJ100 regional jet flown by Russia’s flagship carrier Aeroflot broke out after the plane made a hard emergency landing. Video on Russian television shows fire bursting from the plane’s underside as it landed.

The weird thing is it looked like the plane was under control as it landed, just on fire. What was burning? Even an engine fire doesn’t light up the underside. A plane with landing wheels not locked down sparks, but doesn’t burst into flame like that.

Something flammable in the luggage compartment? Munitions maybe? It looks like a fuel fire.

There’s a second view from a different angle (upthread) that shows the plane coming in to land, not on fire, bouncing off the runway and then doing a tail strike as it came down again. The fire appears to break out after the tail strike.

If you look at r14, it turns out it was not on fire when it landed -- it tried to land, bounced twice, cracked its undercarriage, and then burst into flame...

You can see pictures of people running away from the plane with their hand luggage. I wonder if any public shaming will follow.

R30 Public shaming? Every one of them should have the contents of their luggage rammed with force up their assholes.

I was shocked at that. People leaving the aircraft with luggage. Selfish, stupid people.

Video from inside the plane:

Data from tracking website Flightradar24 indicates the emergency happened around 30 minutes after take-off.

“It attempted an emergency landing but did not succeed the first time, and on the second time the landing gear hit (the ground), then the nose did, and it caught fire,” a source told Interfax news agency.

[quote] THIS. It's your fucking life, you morons. Materialistic things can be replaced. You and your fellow passengers CANNOT.

Oh, honey, you know Russians don't care about human life.

[quote] You can see pictures of people running away from the plane with their hand luggage. I wonder if any public shaming will follow.

Are Russians capable of shame? No, of course not.

Some people seemed to be taking their time getting away from the plane. I'd move as fast as possible to avoid kaboom.

Jesus, who’s looking at The Towering Inferno outside the window and stopping for luggage? Get the hell out of there. It must have been extremely hot in there.

For future reference, it would probably be a good idea if you have your passport and money on your person before the plane approaches the runway. And if you have to make a hasty exit, if your passport and a bit of money is in your shirt or money belt, you’ll be all right, or you can always go to the embassy. Leave the rest.

I read somewhere that people should wear natural fibers on airplanes because polyester melts and makes even mild burns much worse.

If you know there’s mechanical failure, you can pen your SSN on your arm, it’s better than nothing. If worse comes to worst, maybe they can identify the body. I know a vet that had it tattooed on before going into combat in WWII. A lot of guys did that. His ship sank, and a lot of men were killed, so it was a good precaution. He was ok.

its amazing that the pilots was able to land without totally crashing . In this scenario - do the pilots/FAs let everybody else go first? The cockpit seemed safe and intact- are all pilots alive?

In the “Miracle in the Hudson” plane landing, pilot Sully was the last one on the plane, after all the rest of the crew. That’s how they’re supposed to do it. Of course if the plane is on fire, at a certain point you just have to save yourself if you can. People are going to die no matter what you do.

I’ve read a lot of accounts of ships sinking, especially abroad, and there’s a lot of incidents of crew just abandoning ship and leaving passengers to fend for themselves. Different regulations, but it’s likely it’s because they don’t have that tradition in those countries.

R7, my neighbor down the hall. He has shaggy black hair and a beard and piercing eyes and a gruff speaking voice. He doesn’t drink and does something with computers. He’s married to his second wife, a vivacious Ukrainian who I adore. He has beautiful daughters. Sometimes I hear his piano playing, which is divine.

Anyway, you guys would probably love him. He’s very manly but cultured as well.

Years and years ago I was driving for Pink Dot. U was 22 and there was sexy 23 year old Russian dude, straight and hot as fuck. Igor.

I was new to sex and stuff, and the night before this guy gave me a hickey. I should've tried to cover it, but I wasn't savvy enough at that point.

I wasn't out at work, and everyone was pointing out and talking about my hickey. Igor saw it, and he gave this studly laugh/sneer. In a manly Russian accent he goes "check it out..." and he lowers his collar to show a huge hickey.

Something so erotic about the whole exchange.

Within reason R39.

I've done several evacs... fortunately no one was killed and everyone was able to get out, despite me screaming at people to leave everything and get the fuck out. People are idiots. Aircraft are certified by being able to evacuate a full load with half the exits in 90 seconds. Those tests are usually conducted with experienced testees who know what to do, and aren't taking anything with them. Taking even 20 seconds to take your oversized bag is putting others in grave danger. We did a final run through to make sure everyone was off.

If the flames start licking at my butt, I'm out of there.

A friends son has perished in this flight. Still waiting on names of victims. I heard death toll is closer to 40.

r44 Was your friends son hung?

Sorry to hear, Natasha. Now get back to work.

For you, R7: young Baryshnikov

When i was a kid and i watched the Olympics i always thought the Russians wore makeup because they have extremely rosy cheeks.

[quote] People are idiots

Understatement of the year.

So many annoying screaming fish in r34 interior video.

Did you get to rim Igor, Mary r42?

[quote] That;s why we always try to sit in the front of the plane.

Actually statistics show that the safest place to sit on a plane is as far to the rear as possible. More often than not the part of a plane that takes the initial hit in a crash is the front. Of course there are the exceptions as this incident proves. Although, this was not a classic "crash".

As of now the death toll is 41.

[quote]Aircraft are certified by being able to evacuate a full load with half the exits in 90 seconds.

Unfortunately, so am I.

[quote]Actually statistics show that the safest place to sit on a plane is as far to the rear as possible.

This is absolutely correct. After all, you ever hear of a plane backing into a mountain?

R44, if that’s true, I’m sorry about the death. My condolences.

What a horrible way to go, and how horrible for the family to see the videos. Especially the ones of the interior. That’s nightmare-inducing, to think of your child in the middle of that. The people who had family on board are going to look at those videos and put themselves in their loved one’s shoes, thinking, those people are screaming and my loved in is dying at that time. How horrible. They’re going to end up with much worse PTSD from seeing that.

They’re now saying the entire aircraft was evacuated in 55 seconds. Only 35 people went down the slide total. The pilots escaped from a rope through the cockpit window. At first they were saying they were the last ones out, but obviously that is a lie. They probably never opened the cockpit door.

If you look at the slide video, there’s a bunch of people evacuating, then a pause, then a guy with a big suitcase slides down. The entire evacuation was stopped while this bastard got his luggage out of the overhead. People died because of that. They’re talking about charging him with manslaughter. Apparently there’s some precedent.

Well R50, maybe some of them were burning alive outside of camera range, so there’s that. Everybody else would have seen a burning fireball coming up right behind them while an asshole near the only door fiddled with his luggage, blocking every person from escaping. I would think people of both sexes would scream in that circumstance.

What the hell do you think was in that luggage that was so important it was worth dying for? The Holy Grail? Ark of the Covenant? Nuclear material? A bunch of coke? Somehow a few pairs of socks and a porn magazine don’t seem worth it.

They’re already scrubbing the video from the internet so if you want to see it you better download it now.

This article has good pictures of the crash and the burned out plane afterward, very clear.

Here’s a picture of the aftermath. You can see why the people in the back didn’t make it.

This article says the plane was produced in 2017. They’re also claiming lightning struck the plane and knocked out some of the controls. They were returning for an emergency landing. It landed on its full gas tanks.

Airplane fuel burns at 800-1500 degrees.

Too bad it wasn't the Russian Troll Farm workers!

They try not to do so, but I would expect pilots to know how to land on full tanks -- so next time they don't bounce the plane, crck it open and have the fuel burst into flame.

You would have thought the pilots would have dumped most of the fuel before they landed and the airport would have foamed the runway. It's Russia after all. Countries like that have very little consideration for human life. That's 41 people they won't have to deal with anymore.

Terrible landing smashed open the fuel tanks. No drastic problem before that. Very sad. As for passengers seizing luggage, I don't want to make excuses, but people are in blind panic and not thinking straight in that situation. The problem is letting everyone drag all their crap on board with them. As for not dumping fuel, I suspect they couldn't dump it all over Moscow

Stupid, typical Russians more worried about their luggage than fellow humans.

They're saying on the news that all of the bottles of vodka on board only added to the combustibility.

R65 No, not just Russians. There are tons of incidents out there from around the world showing this level of stupidity.

There are no fire trucks or emergency vehicles on the runway trying to put out the fire and rescue the passengers. I guess if you are in a plane crash in Russia you are on your own.

Do they have fire trucks in Russia?

You people are vile. These people actually burned to death and all you can do is mock them for being Russian? For once, save your xenophobia for the Trump threads and try to muster some sympathy for the poor victims. They did nothing to deserve such horrific death.

What R70 said. I can't downvote the assholes in here fast enough, and threads like this one brings them out for all to see.

Their flight pattern looks to me as if they did try and dump some fuel, it's hard to do over a built up area, but that loop on the radar app, looks to me like a pattern to dump fuel.

It was a very hard landing though. So difficult to speculate what the emergency was and why the hard landing.

Any adversaries of Putin on that flight?

Asking for a friend at the State Department.

They are claiming it was a lightning strike.

Two children among the dead.

R72, I didn’t look at the flight pattern, but it was reported they had a go-around on the first attempted landing.

Could that circle have been the second, ill-fated one?

The first-class businessmen who took their sweet time to collect their hand luggage are getting shredded on Russian news websites. Everyone's calling them murderers. People are outraged and calling for a ban on hand luggage.

Link?

Shouldn't be difficult for our Russbots on here.

R77 if you are asking for a link, I assume you speak Russian and can google it yourself.

I speak 7 languages, including Russian, so out of curiosity I looked up what Russian people as well as people in other countries are saying online. I always compare news coverage between several languages and countries to get a better picture. Regular people in Russia are outraged. The few trolls who dare to deflect with their whataboutism bullshit about Boeing crushes get shut down immediately. But you won't believe me, since you are hellbent on hating all Russians.

Inbound to landing:

Planes are struck by lightening many times each day. Not the cause.

Supposedly they lost some control and that was supposed to be an emergency landing.

There’s a video that shows the final approach, the plane dipped, then leveled out, then hit tail first. It was like they couldn’t keep it at the right position. One report said they had to do the landing on their own, they couldn’t hear the tower.

R87, are Russians calling for the passengers to be charged with manslaughter, especially that one guy with the big suitcase? You can see the pause in the people exiting the plane on the video. It was pretty long. Meanwhile, the back of the plane was an inferno. Just a complete sociopath.

I saw on several on English language sites that some people had been charged in the past if they stopped others from escaping a dangerous situation.

Modern aircraft are supposed to be able to withstand lightning strikes without a problem.

I’m wondering if there was some major electrical short and the pilot thought it was lightning. There’s no footage of lightning as far as I know.

R82 They are calling for a lynching and for criminal penalties like in other countries.

Here's what I've read on Russian sites so far. A technical malfunction made it impossible to land the first time and made the second attempt at landing rough. Some are saying the plane was in flames before it landed, others are saying that the fuel exploded on impact and the plane caught fire after the landing. A technical specialist with the aviation agency is saying that a plane cannot burn out like that in 2 minutes, so it was on fire in the air.

During the landing, the plane bounced several times 5 meters in the air. Passengers in the rear of the plane probably got knocked out. Most of them died because they quickly suffocated. The back of the plane was eerily quiet, so everyone was probably dead or unconscious. That young flight attendant who died ran to the back of the plane to try opening the emergency backdoor, but he was too late.

So, to recap: people died of blunt force trauma on impact and carbon monoxide poisoning. Victims sat in rows 11 - 20.

This article has a couple of pictures at the bottom of the interior.

Don't Russian airlines have a terrible track record? I remember reading something about them being banned from flying in the EU. I would never fly with a Russian airline.

R87 AGAIN, it's a domestic flight! Within Russia. Were they supposed to fly with Singapore Airlines? They had no choice but to take this flight.

[quote]I speak 7 languages, including Russian,

Mayor Pete!!! We knew you’d join us eventually.

Who knew we had so many Russian readers on this site. lol

Why are they reporting that the plane was evacuated in less than 60 seconds when 41 passengers died in the planecrash? Did they mean all passengers who were still alive were evacuated or did the 41 die afterwards from burns etc.

I also hope some big guys kicked or pushed aside those getting their luggage. How the hell can you try to save your luggage if the plane is on fire and people are burning alive. Unbelievable. There should be some consequences in the future like flight attendants should be able to lock the overhead storage during an emergency.

So here is what happened. Lightning struck the plane and caused the system to malfunction. Or the equipment was faulty from the start. Connection with the air traffic control was lost. The pilot freaked out and returned to the airport. The speed was normal, but the fuel tanks were full, which complicated the landing. Why didn't he dump them? The pilot error was to blame. He was unable to land the plane in manual mode and under stress. The plane bounced several times, the rear landing gear was broken, and the tail hit the ground at high speed. Fire erupted in the wing (not the underside?) and people suffocated.

It basically sounds like the pilot was a rookie and didn't know how to act in an emergency situation.

Why so many plane crashes this year? Seems like a lot and we're only in May.

R91 The people who died were buckled in in their seats. They weren't running around trying to escape. They never even moved. It was already too late for them by the time the plane landed.

What was playing on the plane's iPod?

R91, they’re saying now that the passengers in back were unconscious from the bounce at the end. Maybe they broke their necks.

What I want to know is, why did people in front know that it wasn’t worth trying to get them out? It’s like they knew they were dead already. What did they see? Maybe they weren’t moving and they just assumed they were all dead and got out.

Ring of Fire r95

mmmmm shashlik!

R96 there was smoke inside the plane. No one was wearing masks. They all literally had seconds to escape before they lost consciousness. I doubt many good samaritans would take the time to unbuckle the dead (?) bodies and then drag/carry those heavy bodies to the exit at the cost of their own lives.

You have to remember that there was no panic at first. The pilot announced that they were returning to Moscow due to technical issues. Then the fire started on the wing. People inside were filming the burning wing on their phones, calmly collecting their luggage. They had no idea the fire would spread inside. When the fire started inside, it was too late.

Here’s a pilot’s forum discussing the accident. Most recent post is on the bottom.

Everyone here knows that if the same thing happened in the US, the passengers would try to retrieve their luggage.

Video of the first 5 minutes

00:20 Aircraft comes to a stop

00:30 First slide deploys

01:51 First Fire truck arrive

02:13 Last evacuation on slide

02:50 RH cockpit crew evacuates using rope

03:30 Crew member climbs back to plane on slide

03:47 Smaller and larger dark objects slide down slide

03:55 Crew member slides down slide

I was on an aviation forum earlier and people were praising the pilots skill in landing the plane. I will say that I flew on a regional airline in Russia last summer and the pilots flying style felt a lot more severe, for lack of a better word, than what I'm used to in the states. Really sharp incline and declines when landing or taking off and weaving, which I was not used to

From r100

Ok, on the pilots forum they’re saying that on landing they hit too hard, the landing gear collapsed, and it punctured the full fuel tanks which started the fire.

So the questions are: why not dump the fuel? Although they were in a congested city area.

Is this Russian designed plane built for the landing gear to snap off under high pressure, rather than puncture the fuel tanks, like planes from other countries?

Why no fire truck on site immediately? Many lives could’ve been saved.

How could lightning do this much damage? Usually damage would be very minor if at all.

Near the end, people on r100 say you can see bodies being pushed down the evac slide

Not sure I care

Here’s a slightly different one.

You can see someone, maybe a pilot, struggling back up the slide as the plane continues to burn. He gets up there, pushes down what looks like large luggage bags, then comes back down. By this time black smoke is visible from the cockpit windows and the opening area of the plane starts pouring black smoke.

It’s been speculated that guy was trying to move aside objects in the aisle blocking rescue, but was so overcome with smoke he couldn’t do any more.

It’s also been speculated that anybody behind the wings got toxic smoke poured over them almost immediately and they were all knocked out or died from that. Some pilots on that forum said a few whiffs of that smoke and you’d be out cold. Survivors would be in front of the smoke.

I hope so, there’s some pictures online of the passenger compartment and it’s just gutted. No seats visible, everything looks melted. I’m assuming the bodies were removed by that time, they’re not visible and the fire is out by the time they take pictures of the inside.

And the pilots point out, they weren’t evacuated in 55 seconds, it was more like 107.

It’s also mentioned on that pilot’s site that there’s some footage of the pilots wearing smoke googles and some type of mask, which they said wouldn't do much for very long.

So from that video of the man going back up the slide again (what a brave man!) trying to clear the exit from "objects", there is a high probability that other passengers did indeed block the aisle with their luggage making it impossible for other passengers to evacuate the plane in time. One piece of luggage blocking the aisle, next person stumples upon it and you have a chain reaction and no one can leave the plane. How stupid that the overhead bins are not locked during an emergency.

Lightening is a bullshit excuse from the Russian government to try to cover for their lax regulation and corruption.

[quote]How stupid that the overhead bins are not locked during an emergency.

I’m starting to like this idea more and more. I’d defer to someone in the industry if they say why it wouldn’t work. Flight attendants prepare for emergency landings, would it be that difficult to install a button they can press to activate a lock on the overhead bins?

The Sukhoi Superjet 100 is a fantastic airplane, and was the result of multi-national input. I’d rather get on one of these than a Boeing 737 Max 8. The 2012 controlled-crash-into-terrain was due to pilot error.

It truly looks like EVERY SINGLE fatality, after the survivable crash, was due to passengers grabbing their luggage and clogging up the evacuation!

Off to pprune to see what the professional pilots have to say.........

What? I was reading that this superjet was plagued by scandal since the beginning. It was revealed that dozens of engineers working on the project actually fabricated their engineering degrees -- this was in the NY times I believe

Obviously an assassination. I'd love to see the passenger list.

r115 I bet they tried to assassinate that businessman with the large suitcase. And the suitcase was full of evidence against something. Hah.

From PPRuNe:

I'd like to add that emergency evacuation goes against everything passengers have been 'trained' to do over years of flying as pax. We're taught that it's vital we are submissive and quiet. We queue between the ribbons, obediently. We empty our belongings into a tray, obediently. We wait until our seat row is ready to board, obediently. We present our documentation, obediently. We sit in our assigned seats, obediently. We fasten our seatbelts, obediently. We restore our seats to the upright position, obediently. We switch off our electronic devices, obediently. We collect our hand-luggage and leave by the indicated exit, obediently.

We know the routine off by heart, and we know that we have to accept the routine and adjust ourselves to minor changes such as leaving by stairs and bus instead of air-bridge..

We fail to watch the safety drill, because we've seen it several hundred times before, and it's designed cleverly to suggest that it's an exercise in box-ticking. The airline absolutely doesn't want you to think that flying is dangerous, and they especially don't want you to think that flying with THIS airline is more dangerous than with others.

Passengers don't get trained for emergencies, like crew. We have no muscle memory, we are all startle factor. Even with flames and smoke, the cabin crew screaming unfamiliar instructions instead of "Take care when opening the overhead lockers..." may not compute.

Airlines WANT docile, unthinking passengers. If we didn't tacitly agree to be docile and unthinking, airlines would go bust.

R105 and others talking about fuel dumping....

I think you'll find that this type of airplane is not capable of dumping fuel. A few other model types can't either. Older models of the CRJ regional jet in use by many airlines cannot.

It's likely that many of the deceased fell unconscious fairly quickly from breathing in smoke. One or two breaths of that stuff and you're out. Thats why speed in evacuation is imperative.

The passengers who took items and thus slowed the process down should be charged with manslaughter.

It sounds like their communications were on and off, so they were probably trying to get down fast because they couldn’t reach the tower.

That landing was weird though. Down too fast, then come back up a bit and level off, then tail down too fast. No control or pilot that really messed up somehow?

I've read somewhere that the pilot wasn't trained to land the plane manually. He relied on autopilot.

R116 Apparently, that man said he had to save his suitcase because there were inheritance papers in it. Originals, not copies. So he's be fucked if they were destroyed.

Interesting, r118. Thanks for that.

This I don’t buy, though:

[quote]I've read somewhere that the pilot wasn't trained to land the plane manually. He relied on autopilot.

I doubt anyone can be certified to fly an aircraft without knowing how to land it.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

wow that passenger is just unbelievable. Hope he got charged.

I meant to say a televised interview, not a news conference at r123. He's also demanding a refund for his inconvenience.

Doubling down? Wow! I guess some people really believe the world revolves around them.

From an old Boeing page... copied from Airliners.net.... Which models have fuel dumping capabilities?

707 - yes 717 - no 720 - yes 727 - yes 737 - no BBJ - no 747 - yes 757 - no 767-200/300 - ** 767-400 - yes 777 - yes 787 - yes DC-8 - yes DC-10 - yes MD-11 - yes MD-80 - no MD-90 - no

** Early models did not have fuel jettison capability, although airlines could install capability. Later models had jettison capability.

R122 - oh, if you only knew.....

'Everything was according to the book. We gently approached the ground, slowing down. After a complete stop we ordered emergency evacuation.'

Guess the pilots forgot about the part where the plane bounced several times on the runway and caught fire after the second bounce. It wasn't gentle at all. If communication was the only problem the plane had, why didn't they dump the fuel before landing? Seems like they panicked, caused a very hard landing and the plane caught fire. Unqualified pilots not properly trained to land a plane during an emergency. If that really was the cause, very sad ending for 41 people.

The fat guy is unbelievable. I hope he already realized that his behavior probably killed several other passengers. He even demanded a refund for his flight right after the crash and complained that the airline fucked up his travel plans.......while 41 people died a horrible death. I hope there are consequences for him.

Sorry about the formatting, let me try that again....

707 - yes

717 - no

720 - yes

727 - yes

737 - no

BBJ - no

747 - yes

757 - no

767-200/300 - **

767-400 - yes

777 - yes

787 - yes

DC-8 - yes

DC-10 - yes

MD-11 - yes

MD-80 - no

MD-90 - no

** Early models did not have fuel jettison capability, although airlines could install capability. Later models had jettison capability.

Do you think a couple of people with suitcases made a difference? The people in the back either died when the plane crash landed and bounced several times or they had such extensive injuries they weren't even able to move. Then smoke inhalation knocked them out. The slide wasn't jammed with people. If people in the back were alive and unharmed, they would have rushed to the exit. A couple of suitcases wouldn't have stopped them. There would have been a stampede. Panicking people wouldn't have waited for some guy to get his luggage. They would have trampled over him like an avalanche. Also, the young flight attendant who ran to open the backdoor wouldn't have been able to get past if anyone was standing in the aisle. People were already dead when rows 1 - 10 were grabbing their bags.

Another thought - when the plane bounced several times, the suitcases from the overhead bins probably fell out anyway. Then people grabbed them and ran.

I think that’s why that one flight crew member went back up the ramp and threw a few large bags out R131. There was a log jam in there.

But if you watch the video, at a certain point black smoke has come forward far enough that it was leaking out of the cockpit. Then it was pouring heavily out of the door they escaped from. The guy who threw the bags out had to leave right away, he couldn’t help anyone. He must have been trying to clear the aisle in the hope he could start dragging unconscious people out and throwing them down the slide. What a brave man.

Only three people lived after the fat man blocked the aisle. Look at the video, the smoke was rapidly spreading during that period. Anyone overcome by smoke died.

My guess is that fat guy had money, since he was carrying inheritance papers. He’s probably a mobster and nothing will happen to him.

R132 He inherited a little over 122 grand. Hardly mobster money.

R131 There was footage from inside the plane after landing and the overhead bins did not open during the landing. So all luggage blocking the aisles was caused by passengers trying to take it with them. And yes, blocking the aisle even for a few seconds can make a huge difference if you're trying to escape deadly smoke and heat. You can even see on the video that the guy with his luggage caused a delay during evacuation. I guess we will see if more people on the other side survived and if his behavior made a difference for those behind him.

i remember watching an oprah episode where a survivor of a plane fire described alll the passengers trying to get their luggage and everyone trying to go out the window exits and literally clogging it up. She grabbed her son and they crawled across the seat tops to the back and ran out the door. If i recall the rest of the passengers died of smoke inhalation. this is why say your closet exit is might be behind you. people get tunnel vision I now try to avoid sitting near a door rather then be dependent on a window exit. What is crazy is now they charge more for emergency exit. I literally complained to a flight attendant when this pencil thin 60 year old lady was sitting there. there is no way in gods green earth she could lift that window. Rhe flight attendent instead of making her move just asked her if she could. she said yes and the flight attendant walked off. All i could think was everyone within 15 rows of that bitch were fucked. I told myself if something happend i would throw her ass out of the way and open the damn window.

1.8 million mile flyer here, R135. I can tell you that Delta is the absolute worst when it comes to seating people in the exit rows, and I've complained about it. I have pictures of Delta seating disabled people in the exit rows - people dependent on wheelchairs. I have seen and elderly (80ish years old) couple seated at the window exits and the seat next to it. I've complained about a woman who was dependent on a cane sitting in the exit row. DELTA DOES NOT CARE.

Meanwhile, I've been on a flight with Alaska Airlines where a non-English speaking, very able-bodied man was seated in the exit row. When the flight attendant realized it, they moved him.

Your safety doesn't just depend on the airline maintenance. It also depends on the attitude of the cabin crew.

R136 when you check in online, you don't choose your own seat?

R136, I hope you write the FAA (not that I have much faith in them either) about what you've seen.

I am ALWAYS moving people from the exit rows, kids, people with canes, non-english speakers, elderly. To their credit, some people, when I describe whats expected of them (as per the law), they say they'd rather move. Kudos to them! However when it boils down to it, if *I* don't think you're capable of opening the exit, you aren't sitting there. Give me flack about it and you stand a good chance of standing back in the airport with your oversized carry-on bags. I'm in a somewhat unique position as I've actually experienced several evacuations and have seen it all.... negative panic, positive panic, idiocy...

All it takes is one bag in an aisle to cause people to trip, others trip over them and the next thing you know, several people are dead because they either had people on top of them, or couldn't find their way out in the thick, dark smoke. One passenger that barely made it out once said that after he took one breath of smoke-filled air, he passed out.. once he hit the floor and the less-smokey area, he came too... he crawled out.

The entitled guy complaining about the airline delaying his travel plans and wanting to sue is nothing new.

R137 You do, yes, as a general rule. However, if you purchase a certain class of ticket now available on many airlines, you don't get advanced seating. It'll get done when you check in OR when you get to the gate. A typical scenario often goes:

1) Person buys cheap ticket, gets no advanced seat assignment - or just doesn't choose a seat assignment.

2) Day of flight, frequent flyer who is currently assigned to sit in the exit row, gets upgraded.

3) Person with cheap ticket automatically gets assigned new open seat in exit row.

R138 I have written to the FAA multiple times, including sending pictures. Only once did I get a response, and it was six months after the flight. An FAA person called me and said they would interview the flight crew, and then they would let me know the outcome. I never got a call back.

Also, R138 / Joe Stew - THANK YOU for all you do!

[re 138] I didnt even think of that. i will do so next time. Although with the increase in air accidents as of late I will probably be more firm in my issue, requesting the pilot, if need be. [re 136] i think your right. it was delta. you can choose an emergency exit seat for an additional fee which makes people that much more unwilling to give it up.

I remember being a teen on a relatively unoccupied plane and the flight attendent leading a disabled man into the exit row. My mother who is normally extremely polite went off. The flight attendant relented and forced him to move. he was pissed at my mom and started yelling at her. she just sat there stone cold. it was one of those moments you look at a parent not with youthful embarrassment but pride in their strength.

R142, I don't know how other airlines do it, but the minute you select a seat with my company, a bunch of questions pop up, including:

a. are you willing and ABLE to open the exit?

b. are you over the age of 14?

c. do you speak and understand english?

to name a few. Answering "no" to any of them disqualifies you from sitting there. Still doesn't stop kids, the visually or physically challenged, 80 year olds or people that think that that row is more for their personal comfort than an escape route from somehow ending up there.

As much as I hate to say it, the industry has almost become TOO safe. People think they're getting on a bus (and many probably should) where if theres a problem, you just pull over to the side of the road. After every highly publicized accident, people pay more attention to the safety demonstrations - for about 2 days, and then it's back to "yeah yeah, can I put my headphones back on now?".

The fat guy's last name translates as 'bread'! I kid you not! LOL

Haha. I'm sure they blamed Hillary for it!