They should rebuild Notre Dame without the steeple

My fear is that being French, the will rebuild in a modern style, unlike the Germans with the Frauenkirche. Something like the I. M. Pei pyramid, but worse.

The spire was a 19th century addition anyway

This is a wonderful opportunity to spiff up the old girl. First off, some paint on those bones would work wonders, maybe a reticent chartreuse?

Without the steeple, how would the prayers get to heaven?

R2 The spire was there before too but a much smaller one (the engraving below is from 1729).

That link doesn't work. Here's the engraving:

The new spire should reach 1789 meters high.

Notre Dame without the steeple is like building the WTC without the second tower, it would be ridiculous.

99% of the people in they had to draw Notre Dam from memory would not include the steeple. They remember the two towers and the rose window.

They'll be unable to find enough 200-year-old oak to rebuild the roof. They will go with steel. And then they'll decide to go with a glass roof. They love that shit over there.

Of course, the interior vaulting will make sure it's only seen from outside.

But right now they are worried about rain.

Get all the tarpaulin de bleu!

You can't recreate a structure that old with modern building methods, nor would you necessarily want to. They should preserve what they can and hire an architect that can build a modern structure around it that will complement it. Remember St. Paul's in London burned down once and they built a pretty damn nice replacement in what was then a cutting edge style.

They should hire Daniel Libeskind - he's known for very tastefully and subtly combining old with new.

I can see it now. Oddly this place is in Eureka Springs, the gay Mecca of Arkansas.

I agree, OP!

While they’re at it, they should open up the space and put in stainless steel appliances and granite countertops!

Most of what burned was hidden. Rebuild with steel and copper instead of timber and lead, but maintain the appearance as closely as possible. The steeple was around long enough to rebuild, even if it wasn’t medieval.

Trump is a builder. Let him do it. A gold roof would be stunning.

The original spire was built very early in the building's history, about 1220AD. It was damaged by age and wind and taken down in the 1700s, and the current spire was a larger variation of the original, installed in the late 1800s.

Luckily, the statues around the spire which were installed at the restoration had just been removed prior to the fire.

What I want to know is what are they going to do to cover it up now. Cold and damp will destroy whatever art can’t be removed. And stone will crack from freezing temperatures in the winter. They’re lucky it happened in the spring.

Even the queen knows, "The higher the hair, the closer you are to Jesus"!

We all think the new cathedral should be built to resemble Cinderella's castle. We already have the steeple.

"While they’re at it, they should open up the space and put in stainless steel appliances and granite countertops!"

Well, they DO like to entertain.

OP, go to Stevens Point, Wisconsin. That's the place for you

[quote] We all think the new cathedral should be built to resemble Cinderella's castle.

Looking at Cinderella's castle I can see where they got the idea for their steeples. And I am going to call out Cinderella for CULTURAL APPROPRIATION

R23, really?

Branding is the answer to raising money....

How about this? Nice and clean:

The only thing that burned was the roof and flèche. There’s going to be no change of design, flèches are typical in French gothic, so it will be replaced.

They need to put a lift in the new steeple and have a McDonalds at the top.

r27, please explain a French Gothic Felch to us. We're interested.

Just replace it with a mosque.

R13 That's rather beautiful. Its in Arkansas?

Shiplap!

Inspirational windows.

I guess it's part of the evolution...over the years, there were additions. As horrible as it is, the fire is now part of the history. I'd like to see it preserved as close as it was.. but who knows. I'm glad that there is enough to be salvaged. I'd hate to see it too modernized.

I think each time it was majorly renovated, something different was added on. Should be the same here; a memento of this generation.

I said so yesterday. Spire never fit. It was by a Swiss architect by the way.

R29. A flèche is a narrow sipe over the crossing of a gothic cathedral, see for example Amiens, the largest and finest cathedral in France.

Here’s the church, here’s the people, open the door and where is the steeple?

R37 should read spire, not sipe.

The Cologne cathedral is truly spectacular. Also the fleche works visually because the towers are so enormous. This cathedral was gutted in the war but didn't fall down. The redo lets in a lot of light and there is a white ceiling. It's fantastic.

Grace Cathedral in San Francisco has a typically French flèche.

R26 That is the most depressing church I have ever seen, and I'm including those awful contemporary churches they build out of warehouses.

R26 looks like some scifi movie funeral chapel.

They should rebuild it in the style of its sister in South Bend, Indiana

That's a library, R 44.

You want a depressing church, just go to the new cathedral in LA. Huge piece of cold, impersonal shite.

LA cathedral

R46 Yes it is ugly and not worth the money it took to build. It looks more like a post modern prison than a place to contemplate God and life. It isn't my style but The Crystal Cathedral, now known as Christ Cathedral, in Orange County, is modern but it does have character and is not ghastly.

Chapel at Corbusier's La Tourette Monastery.

another chamber of it

The monastery looks like a state university building of the 70's but it was built in 1950 of course. I took a retreat there. It was surprisingly elegant and spiritual inside. but also FRIGGIN cold - a massive block of concrete, poorly heated. I guess that fits with the lifestyle of a monk.

Its massive, hard to tell from the photo.

I'm just posting this in defense of modern churches, which can be amazing.

Flèche or fantasy?

I attended a beautiful wedding service at the Rothko Chapel in Houston.

Why do so many cathedrals look alike?

^^ (and from the side) ^^

Not one comment on why the Virgin Mary did not bother to protect her own house.

We humans create religions and simply take it as very normal not to witness one convincing miracle in all our lives. We don't even expect it.

"The Rose Window survived. It's a miracle!"

You know who could restore and really add some awe inspiring renovation to Norte Dame? Some of the architects who built buildings in Las Vegas. They’re already experienced with enormous buildings that see thousands of tourists per month.

The bell towers were originally designed to be steeples. I think they didn’t do so for fear the weight of stone would bring the building down. That’s the only change, if any, to make., other than using modern materials in hidden areas.

IMHO

R54, most Churches are designed with a cross as a footprint?

The statues of Saints on the front of the Church, I’m guessing there are 20 or so, are all 18th century reproductions. During their revolution, the crowd tore them all down, thinking them statues of French Kings.

R57 the Nylands have always been lucky.

Really R16? Your post is trite, tedious an irrelevant to a thread like this. Hope you're applying some of your angst and wit towards efforts that actually work to vote Trump out in 2020.

[quote] R56: Not one comment on why the Virgin Mary did not bother to protect her own house

The Cathedral was scheduled to be completely destroyed 12 times already, but St. Mary interceded for its protection each time, you ungrateful swine. Besides, God watched his own son be tortured and crucified, and you’re asking for what??? Pray instead for the strength to deal with adversity with aplomb. No one escapes hardship.

R63 Not only that, but perhaps God chose to let it burn so that the people of France would return to the faith. Have you not seen the crowds in Paris singing Ava Maria and praying?

How is a plum going to deal with adversity?

How about an elegant revolving restaurant?

Good one, R64.

R65, I do not know, but I bet it is squishy.

R43: that’s actually Church of the Light by award-winning Japanese architect, Tadao Ando:

R64, no kidding. You wouldn’t believe what it took for Russia to be re-Christianized, sort of.

It crying out for a John Portman touch. Perhaps glass elevators on the towers, or a skylight in the now destroyed transept.

Go with LEDs, bitches!

My local Cathedral just reopened after a year’s complete interior refurbishment. I’m excited to see it. It’s just a block away but I haven’t been by, yet.

They did put in sprinklers. It’s 150 years old.

R31, it’s in the Ozark mountains and in the woods. Ir was designed by Fay Jones and is quite spectacular.

OP, I notice you failed to address your question to the Tasteful Friends.

One must be careful to observe that bit of DL etiquette. Otherwise, it’s an open invitation for tacky poseurs to submit their ill-informed opinions. (And we certainly would not want Norte Dame Cathedral to end up looking like the kind of cheap dives the ex-Mrs. Gary Merrill used to favor).

That said, I agree with your suggestion.

TEAR DOWN THAT BITCH OF A SPIRE!

Fuck you OP!

How about a laser light show virtual fleche! It can change from a fleche, to la Môme, to Maurice Chevalier, to Michael Jackson moonwalking. Most international tourists still love Jackson. Sometimes it can just be a dancing big Red Balloon.

R51's image looks like the Architecture School at the University of Florida.

Don't all John Portman buildings have revolving restaurants, r70? Imagine, a revolving Friday Fish Fry!

The steeple doesn’t belong.

Omg.

If the Catholic church is responsible for it why didn't they pour their billions into it's renovation?

....

[quote]We all think the new cathedral should be built to resemble Cinderella's castle. We already have the steeple.

R20, that’s not Cinderella’s castle. It’s Sleeping Beauty’s.

R81 they need it to settle all the pedophile suits.

What's the difference between a spire and a steeple?

r1, the 'modernists are already starting - like vultures salvating over a not-yet-dead person

With those tacked-on huge buttresses, it's really kind of gauche.

Notre Dame Fire:

Is the heinous LA cathedral Catholic?

[quote]With those tacked-on huge buttresses, it's really kind of gauche.

quiet, r87, the adults are talking.

[quote]If the Catholic church is responsible for it why didn't they pour their billions into it's renovation?

They're not. Notre Dam is owned by the Republic of France, as are Amiens Cathedral and (I believe) Sacre Coeur and Mont St-Michel.

All churches in France built before 1905 are the property of the state. See: loi du 9 décembre 1905 concernant la séparation des Églises et de l'État

[quote]Notre Dam

Oh dam, dam, dam.

[quote]You know who could restore and really add some awe inspiring renovation to Norte Dame? Some of the architects who built buildings in Las Vegas. They’re already experienced with enormous buildings that see thousands of tourists per month.

And they've already done Paris.

I don't think they will have a problem financing the renovations $1billion has been donated by billionaires from the US and the EU.

Notre Dame is to Chartres as the Empire State Building is to the Chrysler Building.

Discuss.

No, r21. They don't like to "entertain," they like to "have friends over".

Ok OP - and while they're at it they can pull out all those dark foreboding stained glass windows and replace them with Andersens. And they are on sale now!

R82... That theory was squashed immediately..even without any full investigation, which would take time to do properly. I think there were fires in two separate areas?.. which doesn't make sense, thinking the fault of a construction company.

Yes, r87. Technology has advanced. Lose the buttresses.

R89, yes the LA cathedral is Catholic. My elderly aunt was a devout Catholic and wanted to go to Christmas Mass at the new cathedral., So, I took her and I was shocked at how sterile the place was. It was, however, during announcements just before the end that got to me. The lector announced that the gift shop was open and was selling bottles of wine signed by the bishop. I said to my aunt loud enough for all around me to hear," Didn't Jesus drive the money lenders and merchants out of the temple (“‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers" ) ? Very strange experience, hardly spiritual in any way. She said she never wanted to go back.

I like the LA Cathedral as a Los Angeles building; it's very Blade Runner. But completely unsuitable for a place of worship.

Try St Vincent De Paul near USC.

The French people are supposed to be freethinkers yet here they were on their knees, praying and singing, like one of Timothy Dolan's TV fantasies.

[quote] 99% of the people in they had to draw Notre Dam from memory would not include the steeple. They remember the two towers and the rose window.

True in my case.

The spire will be replaced so they can put a cellphone tower in it and get some extra income.

I am a very cool continental I'll have you know. In the late 80's I spent some Christmas Eve's with a stop at Notre Dame and it was always magical. Before the hordes of tourists natch.

Until the Eiffel Tower was built, Norte Dame was the tallest structure in Paris. Incidentally, when the Eiffel Tower was built, it overtook the Great Pyramid as tallest manmade structure in the world.