And Also Starring MISS BARBARA STANWYCK

Guest star future bottom pincher Jeanne Cooper!

I just got the four "Wagon Train" episodes with Barbara, as well as a "Zane Grey Theater" episode, and her "Toni's Boy's" episode of "Charlie's Angels". I'm going to be in a million dollar case of laryngitis hog heaven this weekend! (To paraphrase Richard Chamberlain).

Barbara had to be one of the few women from the Golden Age of Hollywood who let herself age, and age gracefully.

Regarding the whole use of “Miss”, there was, (still some around), a whole generation of women who would insist on using “Miss”. Obviously, they would be maiden ladies so “Mrs.” would be out, and “Ms.” was too “modern” and/or could convey one is a divorcee. I grew up knowing many, and still know a few that are left that will correct you if you use anything other than “Miss”. It has nothing to do with advertising for a man.

She really seemed to enjoy being man handled on that show.

She wore leather as well as Heath and Jared... and could wield a whip pretty well too!

I used to love watching The Big Valley.

She aged well, but also got butcher and butcher as well...

From being "Cattle Queen" to "Maverick Queen", Barbara just loved the wild west. Was there any other major leading lady who came close to doing as many westerns? Yvonne de Carlo maybe, but I can't think of any others.

THE FURIES is one of my favorite western films. Mainly because she disfigures her stepmother’s face with scissors...

The enormous biography ( Steel True ) written by a lesbian in exhausting and dull detail ,says there is no evidence of lesbianism re Missy. WTF!

Stanwyck was a tough old broad without illusions. She adopted a son, then abandoned him somewhere along the way. Plus, Republicunt to the bone.

Even that boozy bulldagger monster Mommie Dearest didn't intimidate her. Here she starts bitching about "friend" Joan Crawford over the phone, at the 13:50 mark.

Two things that are kind of singular about Stanwyck:

She was one of the few performers of her era who preferred to work independently, rather than be tied to a long term contract with any one studio. She tended to tie herself to just a small number of films at a time, or one project. (Others who operated successfully this way were Janet Gaynor, Miriam Hopkins, Carole Lombard, Constance Bennett and Irene Dunne.)

And she really was not invested in glamorous clothes, like most female stars. She did losen up somewhat when Edith Head put her in high fashion for THE LADY EVE, but at first she resisted even that look. For the most part she wasn't invested in being a glamourpuss.

Barbara had some strong conservative viewpoints, but at least she wasn’t a bigot like John Wayne or Ginger Rogers.

Barbara simply felt that if somebody from her background could make it, other people could do the same thing. It just took guts and determination in her mind, and at least she stuck to her guns. Being a Republican in that era was quite different than it is now.

Barbara was also known for her anonymous philanthropy, paying off the hospital bills of crew members on her films who were either injured or had a family member in the hospital, so she was not a tightwad. She also adopted Linda Evans as her surrogate daughter after Linda's mother passed away. She could be quite toxic to the women she did not like (apparently Lana Turner got a verbal tongue lashing because of her affair with Robert Taylor years before) but was very maternal with the young men on her film's sets. Taylor, William Holden, Robert Wagner and the boys of "The Big Valley" all attested to her genuine kindness. She's a champ in my book!

[quote]r15 She also adopted Linda Evans as her surrogate daughter after Linda's mother passed away.

Surely some sick, long-game grooming process.

Poor grieving, airhead Linda didn't know what hit her.

It is funny that in the autobiography by John Derek's daughter, her first impression of stepmother Linda Evans was that "she was so impossibly sweet she seemed mentally retarded."

Linda Evans looks like Doris Day's sister, Doo Dah.

Linda Evans said that Stanwyck told her back in the day, that in showbiz you had to be tough, she said, 'That's why I'm a bitch in the boardroom, a bore in the bedroom and a bear on the toilet!' Or maybe that's a line Stanwyck said in one of her movies or that Charlie's Angels spinoff show she did...

"Nick Heath Jarrod, there's a fire in the Barn!"

As Constance Colby

Can you imagine 2,15 min long opening credits in today’s tv? Constance gets the final position opening those doors like watch out bithces, the biggest bitch has just arrived! What a woman at her age!

Dorothy Faye Dunaway was offered the Katharine Ross part on THE COLBYS.

If she'd done that instead of SUPERGIRL, her later career might have been a bit steadier.

R24 I wish she had taken it, Ross was weak link in it. She would have acted with Heston Stanwyck etc.

Dunaway is better suited to the role of Sable, but I distinctly remember an item in People magazine stating Dunaway was approached for the series THE COLBYS ... and the character of Sable had cropped up earlier on DYNASTY, hadn't she? So it must have been the role played by Ross (?)

Maybe I'm wrong and Sable made her debut on THE COLBYS.

In any event, Dunaway turned the show down because they weren't offering enough money. Which was kind of foolish.

Constance Colby should have been more like Angela Channing of "Falcon Crest", but unfortunately, they made her closer to Miss Ellie of "Dallas". I would have loved for her to have been a combination of Barbara's toughest bitches with hidden vulnerabilities that she showed to the nieces and nephews she loved, particularly Jeff and Monica. Barbara said she kept repeating the same scene over and over every week so that's why she left after one season.

Barbara also had bad health problems at that time, so that's probably the real reason she left.

She thought Mussolini was hot. 'nuff said

When did she say that Mussolini was hot?

this was pre-interweb

She's a bit out of breath from the kiss lover boy here, but what a broad. None of this we're all winners crap - just thanks to the cast and crew and this should have gone to Ann-Margret.

*the kiss of lover boy

Her last scene with Richard Chamberlain in THE THORN BIRDS was wonderfully OTT. I loved how she chewed up the scenery in that. No one else in the miniseries came close.

Jeanne Cooper sported a most wicked beehive/pageboy combo on an episode of Perry Mason.

Stanwyck in the Emmy clip at R 32 was about five years younger than Jane Fonda is now. Stanwyck comes over as feisty but knackered, Fonda seems like she could still 'go for the burn'. Of course people had more unchecked bad habits in Stanwyck's day that finished off a lot of her contemporaries early, especially the men. They all tried to maintain youth, even Stanwyck, who tho' more graceful about it ( allowing her hair to turn white ) still preserved a line free face through fairly taught plastic surgery. She's about the same age as Dunaway is now. Dunaway has fucked up her face and teeth, but still appears more youthful and vital than Stanwyck. Mature stars don't look as old as they used to, nor I suppose do we mortals. Not seen AM in 'Who will love my children?', it sounds v Hallmark and a great chance for some scenery chewing, but I did love BS in Thorn Birds, the 'Let me tell you something Cardinal de Bricissart...' speech is a direct link to all the tough talking but vulnerable dames of her heyday and she totally delivers it. Bette Davis campaigned for that part, she would have been awful. Love Bette , but by then she was ossified , undirectable and just spat out lines with her self praised professionalism, it would have been interesting to see her take if she'd been able to maintain her Baby Jane momentum , slightly over-ripe but still creative. Stanwyck was definitely the most real of the Gorgon actresses, all were great in their way, however Davis became the curator of her own legend, Crawford believed Hollywood was a philosophy and Hepburn was a rarefied creature, deigning to entertain us . Stanwyck had the least phoniness, was more versatile and maintained her talent better and for longer. A showbiz friend told me Stanwyck would home in on young girls working on The Big Valley and the rest of the company would try to carefully extricate them from the situation , 'Betsy ( or whoever ) isn't in today Missy'. The same friend told me she and Nancy Sinatra Snr were lovers, their 'friendship' certainly goes way back and my pal ( who's a well connected queen ) said Nancy was with BS when she died. They make a convincing couple, Big Nancy has the look of Mercedes McCambridge about her.

Can you imagine being that famous and in some of the best movies ever put on screen, then reduced to playing a cattle ranch matron on some horrible tv western? What a fucking nightmare!

[quote] Regarding the whole use of “Miss”, there was, (still some around), a whole generation of women who would insist on using “Miss”. Obviously, they would be maiden ladies so “Mrs.” would be out, and “Ms.” was too “modern” and/or could convey one is a divorcee. I grew up knowing many, and still know a few that are left that will correct you if you use anything other than “Miss”. It has nothing to do with advertising for a man.

She was addressed by friends, family, and acting peers as "Missy". Supposedly it was Frank Fay who gave her the nickname.

Every year at Christmas, I have a Stanwyck triple bill: "Remember the Night", "Meet John Doe" and "Christmas in Connecticut".

Mario Cantone's impersonation of her big speech in the Thorn Birds about still wanting, needing, loving and feeling into her 80s is still one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

And Stanwyck's Emmy-winning performance remains one of the most dramatic.

"Miss" was commonly used as a title for actresses in the pre-Ms. days. Entertainment features would refer to Miss Crawford, Miss Davis etc.

[quote]Dunaway is better suited to the role of Sable.

Stephanie Beacham as Sable was the best thing about "The Colbys" and the final season of "Dynasty."

Stanwyck's career trajectory in two photos.....

[quote]reduced to playing a cattle ranch matron on some horrible tv western?

GET OFF MY LAND!

Stanwyck aged well, but basically turned into a man...

I always wanted to eat her cunt. I would just love to have had her sit on my face.

My favorite actress. Sorry Joan and Bette.

"Drum Boogie," from "Ball of Fire."

Dubbed by the Liltin' Miss Tilton......

I pissed on 'run of the play ' contracts before Lawson had her first case of the clap.

Can y'all stop it with this bitter ole bulldagger bitch?

[quote]Can y'all stop it with this bitter ole bulldagger bitch?

Fuck you, cunt.

[quote]Barbara said she kept repeating the same scene over and over every week so that's why she left after one season.

She also said "The Colbys" had the worst scripts she'd ever read in her life.

[quote]She wore leather as well as Heath and Jared... and could wield a whip pretty well too!

Yes, she could and, in fact, was in Sam Fuller's OTT western, "Woman With A Whip." The title was changed to "Forty Guns" to placate censors who thought the original sounded a little kinky.

Stanwyck was proud of her stunt woman's card and did her own stunts in the picture. There's a hair-raising scene where she's dragged by a horse. Fuller did three takes. Stanwyck was 50 years old at the time.

Babs was a seriously tough dame.

She was no Norma Shearer.

And "bug eyed" Norma was no Barbara.....

[quote]r59 Stanwyck was proud of her stunt woman's card and did her own stunts in the picture.

So she put a fellow professional, whoever her stuntwoman would have been, out of work.

#Classy

Were any other actresses credited like that? MISS....

[quote]Were any other actresses credited like that? MISS....

I was credited as Miss Clairol once.

R45 that was fabulous. Too bad Gary talked Lucy out of doing hers in character rather trying to be glamorous.

Loved the Colby’s. Beacham, stanwyck, the hot max caul field- so OTT.

Barbara had the best Blackglama ad. I wonder why she forgave Joan Crawford for stealing Mildred Pierce out from under her. She would have been much, much better than the unsubtle Joan, who was always aware of the camera. Unfortunately she never signed a long term contract with a big studio and her Oscar nominations were for characters that weren’t always sympathetic. I think most of her early thirties stuff - including Baby Face - was downright awful...she was sometimes wooden and inexpressive...she didn’t hit her stride as an actress until Annie Oakley. But she was much better than Crawford. And she could do comedy.

[quote]“Ms.” was too “modern” and/or could convey one is a divorcee.

R4 Wasn't she twice divorced?

R63, Yes. At 0:53

R68 Perhaps her 'Miss' was to establish gender. I think Shelley Winters has had a 'Miss' billing here and there.

Miss Toni Fisher!

Mario Cantone's imitation of her Thornbirds speech, down to the old lady spit slurring of her words, has to be one of the funniest things I'd ever seen.

"I shtill want! I schtill FEEL!"

[quote]Were any other actresses credited like that? MISS....

Miss Peggy Lee!

I watched Barbara's four "Wagon Train" episodes (three different characters) as part of a marathon (after watching Bette's 3), and must admit, I prefer her later roles even though overall, she's still my favorite of any of the legendary leading ladies. Her character of Kate Crawley in two episodes (the first is "The Molly Kincaid Story" starring Carolyn Jones) could have been spun off into a series of her own as she is delightfully funny (awfully handy with a whip!) and commanding, somebody that women don't like because she's not at all feminine, but the men consider a good buddy, although John McIntire's Wagon Train head does fall in love with her.

"The Molly Kincaid Story" is a better dramatic story than "The Kate Crawley Story", and I couldn't help but think of the future Myrna Clegg of "Capitol" (Carolyn Jones) emulating Barbara in her year on that soap. As I became a fan of Carolyn's "Capitol" replacement, Marj Dusay, who hopped around to four other soaps, I began to refer to Marj as the Barbara Stanwyck of daytime. "The Kate Crawley Story" goes more for comedy than dramatics, although a forest fire towards the end is pretty scary with Barbara trapped in it after running out on lover McIntire before they are to be married. Barbara got "The Big Valley" right after this so Kate Crawley was put to rest (and Victoria Barkley was very different than her!), so her love for the west continued.

I disagree, R36, re Davis. In the early 80s she was still capable of restraint and pulled off good performances in Right of Way, A Piano for Mrs. Cimino and White Mama. She always benefited from the right director reining her in, whether it was 1933 or 50 years later.

Her Josephine Little, glamorous Hong King importer/exporter episodes on The Barbara Stanwyck Show are not to be missed.

Co-starring Ralph Bellamy as the American consul!

Bette Davis took those television parts because she was broke. Stanwyck needed to keep busy because she had no social life. But she invested her money and didn’t really have to work. But Bette and Joan were always in debt.

R38, it was Stanwyck's long time personal maid, Harriet Coray, who gave her the nickname Missy (see pic). Harriett worked for her for over 30 years.

I cannot see Barbara Stanwyck working with Faye Dunaway on The Colbys or anything else under any circumstances. Stanwyck was Gestapo when it came to temperamental antics, lateness, unpreparedness from ANY actor. She went completely insane over such things.

I think the appellation "Miss" was a holdover from days when actresses of a certain age could command an honorific. Miss Jane Wyman in a tv-movie, "The Incredible Journey of Doctor Meg Laurel." I think before that it was usually Mrs.--Mrs. Carter, Mrs. Fiske, Mrs. Carter DeHaven, possibly some others. Alongside that there were the single names: Nazimova, Modjeska. I think that women who attained the stature of Stanwyck were invariably called "Miss" while working, so it may have come from that. Interesting trend but no doubt fading into obscurity now.

Her most badass Western was Sam Fuller's FORTY GUNS (57).

Stanwyck takes on Charles Bronson (and wins, of course) in the Big Valley episode "Earthquake".

Scene starts at 27:41.

They used to introduce Sharon Stone that way at award shows. It always seemed throwback to me. Ladies and Gentlemen, Miss Sharon Stone.

Miss Dolores Gray!

Jesus, R82, I'm eating breakfast and almost barfed after looking at that bad nose job.

Actresses who reached a level of distinction in the theater (Ethel Barrymore, Jane Cowl, Helen Hayes, Katharine Cornell) would use Miss on the marquee or Playbill but I think it wasn’t used as often in the movies.

But this wasn't a playbill, this was a TV show. Bitch was advertising for a man.

Her Billy Wilder movies alone made her superstar. She was the first lady of film noir.

Stanwyck is my favorite actress. My only reservation is her treatment of her adopted son, Dion. But it is a long story which we have probably beaten to death on DL before.

Bette Davis was always broke because she supported her entire leeching family. Barbara Stanwyck never had those issues. She died a very well-off woman.

Would that Davis had cut off BD like Stanwyck did her son. If only.

R89 the difference is, you can never love another person's child the way you love your own.

Mildred had the right idea.

I was always a big Stanwyck fan, particularly her golden age films, but I think she's pretty bad in Thorn Birds. The teeth didn't help (she could barely get out the name Father DeBricisard!) and the script was dreadful, but I guess it was a career award when she won the Emmy.

Her first Western was George Stevens' ANNIE OAKLEY. Made all the way back in 1935.

I've only seen one Stanwyck scene from the Thorn Birds on YouTube. I think she's imploring Richard Chamberlain to fuck her. It's pretty embarassing. Stanwyck looks like a mummy and the voice... She stayed too long at the fair.

R94, without knowing the plot, your take on the scene might make sense.

But knowing the plot and what comes after - Ralph (Chamberlain) is the one who gets fucked. Big time. And long time.

And it's Mary Carson (Stanwyck) who knows him better than he knows himself and she twists the screws but good.

R92, Stanwyck wore a partial upper plate, maybe graduating to a full upper, from her 40s on. I assume she had her crooked original teeth pulled to look like a "movie star."

The Furies (1950)

[quote]Would that Davis had cut off BD like Stanwyck did her son. If only.

If only! BD and her useless husband leeched off of Bette for many years. Bette should've told both of their lazy asses to go out and get jobs.

"Close the gates, boys, we've got to save the calves! Open your calves, Audra, we've got to save the ranch!"

My favorite scene in THE FURIES is when she mangled Judith Anderson’s face with the scissors.

Robert Wagner still adores her and says he is working on a book about their relationship and everything that she taught him. When they got together, he was 22 and she was 45.

Henry Fonda was deeply, almost obsessively, in love with her. He said he would always love her in an interview and that his wife would just have to accept it. She never showed any interest in him. Peter talks about it like as kids they knew that he would have dropped his whole family and never looked back if Barbara had ever changed her mind.

[quote]R77 I cannot see Barbara Stanwyck working with Faye Dunaway on The Colbys or anything else under any circumstances. Stanwyck was Gestapo when it came to temperamental antics, lateness, unpreparedness from ANY actor.

In short, it would have been delicious.

.....

Stanwyck is a very proficient actress, but you get the feeling she should have held out for better projects. But she was a workhorse who just plowed along in what was put in front of her.

For a major star, she has remarkably few great films associated with her. Like the actress herself, they’re mostly just straightforwardly professional.

DOUBLE INDEMNITY is the one terrific film she made. No one wants to see GOLDEN BOY or STELLA DALLLAS. Even BALL OF FIRE is kind of lukewarm. THE LADY EVE is somewhat better. I think she’s supposed to be good in SO BIG and BABYFACE ... but they’re not revived much.

Basically, her movies are kind of meh.

R100, you seem very gullible when it comes to Robert Wagner, and we've discussed his "relationship" with Stanwyck many times. If there was any real affair, it most likely lasted less than a week. There are so many lies in his book, such as how Stanwyck cooked for him., when in reality she couldn't/wouldn't boil water, and so on. Perhaps you should stop drooling...or at least stop drooling here.

R104 people can learn how to cook.

R105 = still drooling

R106 you seem to have a simplistic view of the world, that people remain exactly the same throughout life.

R103 = Joan Crawford, who hated everyone.

She made very good movies for a while and I'd disagree with you calling most of her films "meh". What a stupid comment to make.

^^ Yeah, let's all sit down and watch THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS (???)

[quote]There are so many lies in his book, such as how Stanwyck cooked for him., when in reality she couldn't/wouldn't boil water, and so on.

I can't even imagine Stanwyck being the least bit domestic or interested in any homemaking stuff. She was one of those broads who sat around smoking and drinking all day, like Davis and Crawford.

You forgot her interests in tennis and horses, R110.

Robert Taylor was completely domesticated when they were married - he did the cooking, he did the dishes, he did the laundry.

Just so you get the idea:

Taylor was also known to be minimally endowed.

Who did the makin' whoopee? Bob Wagner?

[quote]r111 Robert Taylor was completely domesticated when they were married - he did the cooking, he did the dishes, he did the laundry.

I wonder if she did "petticoat punishment" and that sort of stuff with him?

I can see it.

It's "Missy," bitches!

Yes, Ma'am.

I've always suspected that Barbara and Nancy Sinatra Sr. were bumping muffins together. Neither one of them were ever in another relationship with a man after their respective divorces in the early 50s.

R118, do you not appreciate Miss Stanwyck's passionate FOUR YEAR affair with the young studly Robert "RJ" Wagner???

I don't believe for a minute that RJ and Stanwyck fucked.

R76, so shocking to learn that about big movie stars and money. Tho I'm not one to talk. I'm poor and have no one to blame but myself. I spent money on things I don't need.

Still, I'm hoping to make more someday. I hope I'll be smart enough to be smarter than I was when I was younger.

How about a bump?

I shtill want! I shtill FEEL!

God help me! I shtill LOVE!!

Aw - Stanwyck was magnificent. I love her to pieces. She was just absolutely an original. So many wonderful performances from start to finish. She has my complete adoration just for the fact that she went her own way and did not want/have to bother with the studio contract bullshit that frustrated so many great talents.

I love her movies. Maybe she’s known more for her persona than her films but she was an impressive actress for some with little formal education and no acting school. Next to her, her contemporaries seem overwrought. I admit that some of her performances in her early films weren’t so good, but by the late thirties she hit her stride.

r90

Don't I know it

She was brave to let her hair go gray...other than Kate Hepburn, cannot think of another Golden Age actress unafraid of growing older.

Since most all of her 1940s and 50s movies were in black & white, R127, Stanwyck looked blonde with her grey hair.

"Robert Wagner still adores her and says he is working on a book about their relationship and everything that she taught him. When they got together, he was 22 and she was 45."

I wouldn't believe ANYTHING that comes out of Wagner's mouth

Especially when he says Natalie Wood’s death was an accident, r129.

As unreadable as STEEL TRUE was, Barbara went through some awful stuff, being orphaned, raped, a botched abortion that left her sterile. She kept it all in. She was a bit of a control freak and I think that affected her relationships.

[quote]Barbara Stanwyck performing "Drum Boogie" in BALL OF FIRE (1941) dir. Howard Hawks

[quote]some awful stuff, being orphaned, raped, a botched abortion that left her sterile.

She kills her baby and that's somehow tragic for HER?

We missed Babs' day as part of TCM's Summer of Stars. She led it off on August 1, with this roster:

Gambling Lady ( 1934)

Annie Oakley ( 1935)

B.F.'s Daughter ( 1948)

Crime Of Passion ( 1957)

Moonlighter, The ( 1953)

East Side, West Side ( 1949)

Two Mrs. Carrolls, The ( 1947)

Clash by Night ( 1952)

Ball of Fire ( 1941)

Double Indemnity ( 1944)

Meet John Doe ( 1941)

Mad Miss Manton, The ( 1938)

Lady of Burlesque ( 1943)