The suitcase episode on "Everybody Loves Raymond"

Correction, OP

A white adjacent long term relationship

Debra was such a miserable witch in this show. At least we won't have to see Hag Heaton on a reboot of the show. Both sets of in-laws and one of the kids are dead.

R2 you would be too if Marie was your mother in law.

Loved this show; Patricia Heaton, Ray Romano, and Doris Roberts were all perfect in their roles and it was miles above most ‘family’ sitcoms.

I'd take Marie over Debra any day. Marie was a pain in the ass at times, but Debra (and Heaton) were sanctimonious and obnoxious. I wouldn't mind Ray being my dad, but I wouldn't want her as my mother.

I agree with R4. That show almost lived in a parallel TV universe. There was a combination of anger and sadness about it that made the humor seem like the only thing keeping them going.

It is slyly different than any other sitcom. On the surface the premise is identical to 100s of other shows. But there’s a dreadful chill right under the surface. It’s sort of a sitcom family version of Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

'The Angry Family' by Michael Barone

I never understood the popularity of that shoe. Raymond was supposed to be a nice, likeable guy; in reality he was a scumbag. Pussy whipped by his mother, he constantly lied, treated his wife horribly (denying the was married, calling her "smelly tramp", etc). And I swear, I saw the Lindberg baby more than I saw their kids, at points it was as if they were childless. Stupid show

It's obvious that Marie liked boys more than girls, having two sons, and doting on them non-stop to the point of smothering them sometimes. Debra challenged her which was a "no-no" (Marie was used to having her own way), and if I remember correctly, Amy simply kowtowed to her out of fear which made Marie tolerate her more. The brief Marc Cherry sitcom "The Five Mrs. Buchannan's" had a similar dynamic with a divorced mother (Eileen Heckart) with four sons who dealt with her daughters-in-law who could be annoyed with her, but overall, there was a secret like between them all. I never saw that with Marie and Debra, and I always enjoyed when Marie took Debra down.

-It is slyly different than any other sitcom. On the surface the premise is identical to 100s of other shows. But there’s a dreadful chill right under the surface."

It's called being raised by 1st generation Italians out of Brooklyn. That's the "sly" difference, ya mook.

Heaton aside, it was the best written "family" sitcom of its era and still highly watchable.

R8 "According to Jim" was probably your favorite.

The Grandad was such an asshole. And i always felt bad for Robert.

Mt husband has a suitcase sitting in the hallway since February 2nd. Sooner or later he's going to smell the cheese.

From the frau at R8:

[quote]And I swear, I saw the Lindberg baby more than I saw their kids, at points it was as if they were childless. Stupid show.

Um... that was one of ELR's main selling points (I even think the show's tagline in the beginning was "It's not about the kids"), and for many people including myself, it's what made it a tolerable watch.

In an already-saturated market, creating a family sitcom where the main focus was on just the adults' relationships was actually a pretty ballsy move, and is what set it apart from the others.

I wouldn't go out of my way to catch ELR reruns, but it's one of those comfy shows that can while away an afternoon/evening if nothing else is on.

R2 I didn't know all four in-laws were dead. Damn. Even if they had wanted to reboot it, one of the kids being dead wouldn't have made a difference--they'd be college-aged by now, so there'd be a plausible excuse (and like I said, the kids were never a big part of the show anyway). But the show would absolutely not work without the in-laws.

A reboot? Are you kidding me? Nobody would want to see this show without Frank and Marie.

I think Marie also showed up on The Middle.

King of Queens was way funnier.

[Quote] King of Queens was way funnier.

Which Ray showed up on and vice versa. I think his intro was on The Nanny.

a critic (Matt Roush?) called the characters 'loveable' but not 'likeable' - I thought that nailed it.

Georgia Engel was brilliant as Pat.

Debra could be bitchy at times, but Marie was such a buttinsky, manipulative shrew. I loved Doris Roberts portrayal, though I started to hate the character. I also liked King of Queens. Carrie was a much bigger bitch than Debra too.

[Quote] Carrie was a much bigger bitch than Debra too.

I think you'd have to be to put up with Doug's shenanigans.

I noticed Patricia Heaton stopped proselytizing and then she got the lead in The Middle.

This episode was actually spread over two episodes. It's a precursor to the multi-episode Deborah/Marie fued in the sixth season. Totally brilliant show, I think it holds up very well.

"PEGGY!" came through the neighborhood:

@aquino_amy

Mar 29

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[quote]"The Five Mrs. Buchannan's" had a similar dynamic with a divorced mother (Eileen Heckart) with four sons who dealt with her daughters-in-law who could be annoyed with her, but overall, there was a secret like between them all.

I loved that show, but from day one it was clearly established that the mother put everything she had on the line and gave it to her sons or gave things up for her sons, so that while she was a bitch, when it came to her boys she was selfless, giving and made them everything that the daughters-in-law loved.

Debra was a shrew but she wasn't like that in the beginning. She became that way about midway through when the ratings really took off.

The one thing I liked about Carrie from "King of Queens" was she was no better than Doug. However Doug was a bit above her class wise and lowered himself and Carrie was a bit below where she married and strived to move up. And even when Carrie strived to be more than she was, she knew she was lying to herself. This was evident in the "game cheating" episode, a hysterical episode, where Carrie was called out by Doug for cheating on "couples-game-night" and she couldn't stop cheating.

Is a suitcase episode, the same thing as a bottle episode?

They were both incredibly flawed and selfish people, which is why I love the show, R27. I’m not sure I agree about their class differences. Carrie is definitey a striver, but Doug never lowered himself to be with her. He was a bum when they went on their first date, and lied about having a job so she would date him. When she got suspicious she followed him to see where he worked, and he caught on to her. He darted into IPS out of desperation and after some shenanigans he got his driver job. Doug never had to “lower” himself— he was always as low brow as it got. Carries home life seemed more unstable than his growing up though, if that’s what you mean.

R29 “king of queens” was classic compared to Kevin James’ follow-up, which stared out lame and got so much worse after killing off the wife character

The only episode I remember seeing was where Marie took up sculpture and made a giant vulva.

R29 I just saw that episode lol. Did anyone watch Kevin's new show? It was kind of shitty how they just got rid of the wife.

Hated ELR, though I loved all the actors on that show except for that right wing witch. Ray Romano is very talented and funny, Doris Roberts is a national treasure as is Peter Boyle. Brad Garrett is meh in general, but was great on that show.

Patricia Seahag makes me physically ill. I can’t look at her Republicunt face without wanting to claw it off.

I kind of like Brad Garrett's new show (although he's a small part of an ensemble.) I hope it gets renewed, if only for the fact that it has the gayest character in television -- EVER.

[quote]...Doug never had to “lower” himself— he was always as low brow as it got. Carries home life seemed more unstable than his growing up though, if that’s what you mean.

That's what I mean. Doug's family is a step above Carrie's family. Also the way they met was convoluted there are two other backstories about how they met, one had them knowing each other in high school. Carrie also met Doug's cousin at a summer camp when they were children.

The difference between the two shows was KoQ was a more wacky. Whereas on ELR, if a situation was bad, they'd confess it and laugh, like Mary Tyler Moore would've done, whereas on KoQ, if a situation was bad, they'd try a wacky stunt (ala I Love Lucy), to try to remedy it.

I think Carrie and Doug were on the same level. The key difference between them is that Carrie always thought she settled in life and could've done better than Doug, her career, basically her life. Whereas Doug was content where he was in life, including career. Of course, Carrie really wasn't as smart and talented as she thought she was. She might have been efficient and street savvy, but she lacked people skills and tact. She was too rough around the edges to attract a classier guy than Doug and to get ahead in the workplace. Although, the latter might be debatable; bitches do tend to get ahead, but usually from white collar backgrounds (think Working Girl).