Mount Everest 2019

Why did they close the Corpses on Mount Everest thread?

I was going to ask that too R1.

I was about to add that Mount Everest threads are probably one of the most community unifying threads we have, but then I found the Corpses thread closed...

I flew over Everest - never climbed it. I understand the base camp is prohibitively garbage-laden now.

When did Muriel get squeamish?

Sounds like a winner.

If she had altitude sickness on Aconcagua, she's not getting up Everest.

I saw on another thread that some people were worried older (and classic!) Everest threads got zapped. Well, happily, they didn't-- at least not all. Here's one for example. Search Datalounge Everest for others.

Chomolungma take the rich white devils!

Yasss queeeens, the season has begun.

Will the sherpas revolt again and throw rocks?

Will the seracs collapse on the Ice Fall Doctors?

Will there be an earthquake?

And, most importantly, how many will die and be stuck in the ice forever?

I'm trying to think of an appropriate Karmic punishment for all these rich bastards that waste their money on this ego climb and leave trash all over a sacred mountain, instead of doing something worthwhile with their considerable resources.

A storm or huge avalanche would be a tragedy, what's called for is something more humiliating than that. A plague of dysentery, perhaps?

Maybe some deadly contagious form of high altitude virus, R11.

Last year's death toll was very disappointing.

Why the fuck is this thread so dead? Are they not dying already

When do they corpses start thawing and sliding down to mountain?

Latest news: they’re picking up trash.

There ought to be a rule: you want to climb, you must leave no trace you were there and are every item back with you. Otherwise, you pay a $200,000 fine.

R15 is correct, and they ought to add $100,000 to that fine if you try to get a Sherpa to pick up your own filth for you.

The OP is on ignore for me and maybe is for others, thus keeping the thread hidden.

There is a movement for climbers to poop into a bag and take it with them back down to base camp.

What do they do now? Just poop anywhere and don’t bury it? Do people poop on Everest? If they do, you’d think it would be wall-to-wall out there. Especially with people summiting in a long line against a rope line.

I thought I read somewhere once that the altitude upsets one’s stomach and people got diarrhea, but I can’t remember if that was at base camp.

〰️〰️〰️〰️〰️〰️

🥾🥾🥾🥾🥾🥾

💩💩💩💩💩💩

R18 Exactly, take your shit away, shit monsters.

No, the route is ridden with frozen shit and always has been.

The teams will surely be in Base Camp by now?

I wish there was more activity on this thread. Where is everybody? Do we need to make a new thread since apparently the OP of this one is grayed our?

I’m not sure what OP has done to be grayed out, but I love the Everest threads. Seems like an undramatic start to the season. According to Alan Arnette, there’s a new route attempt on the north side this year.

2 Sherpa Widows are climbing this year, in memory of their husbands, and to refuse to be dead but alive still: You go girls~!

R20, considering it’s frozen, how hard is it to pick it up and put it in a bag on the way down? Even if most people didn’t have the strength to carry it, some could.

I know it’s hard to carry stuff, but on the way down they must have eaten food and drink water and be carrying less.

R22 Yes

this is all i have to say

Ha ha, R26!

Only two people died last year so maybe the ambulance chasers here have lost interest.

Something to ask your nan to make for you for Xmas

The Mount Everest threads from a few years back were among the best DL threads. Those and a creepy Johnny Depp thread.

Don't understand why they got deleted.

I think your metabolism slows down the higher you get. People don't eat much anymore. Most climbers lose 40 to 50 pounds during the climb.

It's hard to force down even the smallest amount of food at that altitude, so the average climber is producing much less shit than they usually do.

Still. Leave no fucking trace on the sacred mountain, and if you think it doesn't matter or a Sherpa will do it for you then you don't deserve to be there.

Here's the link to Alan Arnette's blog.

374 climbing permits issued.

Should we send Chrissy up there? She could stand to lose a few pounds.

There’s also the empty oxygen canisters, chocolate bar wrappers, gear and all the rest.

I’m guessing the Sherpas heat snow to make tea? Imagine the urine and sweat everywhere.

i am fascinated on all this and have read quite a few books on the trips/climbs. it's amazing. but for myself, the only climbing is out of bed......

'My general sense of the route through the Khumbu Icefall is that it is easier and safer than in previous years. '

This isn't the kind of news we want to hear, is it?

Of course not, r36.

Did they finally bury Green Boots under stones?

Any news on when the climbing window is?

Green Boots is gone.

Green Boots is still fine. He sends his love!

Meet the climbers: one-legged former Marine Kirstie Ennis.

Here she is posing nude.

I heard when they removed a bunch of trash recently they also removed five bodies, or were trying to. Were those recent deaths with still-living families?

I always wonder, would the dead people up there prefer to be removed and buried in a graveyard where their families can visit, or is the mountain a peaceful resting place for them. I don’t see how it could be.

The whole mountain must be covered with wandering ghosts, so many people have died there. If it’s true some ghosts don’t know they’re dead, you would think people dying of hypothermia would never really understand what was going on. They get sort of confused and delirious, take their clothes off sometimes because they’re not cold anymore, and generally don’t know what they’re doing. Then add hypoxia on top of it.

It seems like a nightmare to me, like that suicide forest in Japan.

R43 Stupid cunt. Hope the Sherpas refuse to help when she invariably gets into trouble

I realise the Khumbu Ice Fall is the most dangerous part. Ladders over crevices are necessary. But the climbers do such little, well, climbing, because the Sherpas have set up the ladders and ropes. Like this is a vertical powdery wall. Difficult for sure. But surely not life threatening to climb without the ladder.

I guess the issues are preserving energy and not turning the ice into smush given the number of people that will be climbing up and down it to acclimate.

Sir Edmund Hillary must be turning in his grave. “Climbing” Everest by using a ladder?

When are they going to put in the escalator?

I thought they had banned amputees from ascending the mountain? The Chinese cleared a lot of the dead bodies a few years ago, inc. Green Boots.

I think there are some decent hanging seracs further up according to Alan A's blog, which might crash down.

The rules have changed now so that no one can climb until the Sherpas put in all the ropes. This means that it is the Sherpas who summit first since they are putting in all the ropes up top.

Also having the ropes all in place before other client climbers start their ascent eliminates one of the problems encountered during the tragic 1996 climbing season when fixed ropes were not in place when climbers arrived on their move toward the summit. This slowed the ascent of those teams and had deadly consequences later in the day.

Also, all guides must climb with oxygen. This, I would expect, is a reaction to the problems on the 1996 climb when guide Boukreev was climbing without oxygen.

r49 the first is a result of Ueli Steck's bullshit when he and a climbing partner flipped off the Sherpa who were setting lines by disturbing them and crossing above them.

And karma certainly came back to bite Steck in the ass.

[quote] the first is a result of Ueli Steck's bullshit

Sorry, R50, I don't think so. The idea/plan to have the Sherpa team fix the ropes BEFORE anyone else climbed was decided before the Steck event.

The Sherpa team was working to set the ropes and NO ONE was supposed to climb before they were finished.

Steck and his group ignored that and climbed anyway.

In 1996, didn't Lopsang and some other Sherpas have a standoff near the Hillary Step about who should put up the ropes? They were all sitting about getting cold for hours while a cyclone rolled in from the Bay of Bengal.

I find the whole 96 debacle fascinating.

Meet the climbers: Dallas fitness instructor Crystal Lovell loses weight, quits job and heads for Everest.

May already! There could be summits soon.

Who unleashed the piglets? An H1N1 outbreak rages near Everest Base Camp!

Was Crystal Lovell involved?!!

[quote]Big, big winds from the outer bands of Cyclone Fani combined with Jet Stream to destroy camps on both sides of Everest. No injuries but gear and tents have gone.

Good news, R60.

Any deaths from HAPE or HACE yet?

Not yet. Everest erections reported but, naturally, VICE.

I see pictures like this and think “Humans have no business being here”.

Climbing has been delayed due to a cyclone bringing excess amounts of snow but things should be gearing up again soon. AFAIK the south side has been roped up to at least the South Col. This year has been virtually drama-free which is unusual. Maybe it is really just a yak trail now, as Scott Fischer called it in 1996, and that "it was all mapped out." Someone is rumored to be attempting a new route on the North Face.

Last year was deeply disappointing with only two deaths. These threads will be redundant soon if they keep that up.

It's a shame that cyclone did not wait and hit on a summit day, as it did in 1996. Weather forecasting is depressingly accurate these days.

r66 it was accurate then, too.

Hmmm, I think not.

It was accurate in 1996. The scandal, suggested in A Good Day to Die, is that some teams had the info and suppressed it from everyone else.

From what I heard recently the 1996 storm was also particularly vicious because in addition to the characteristics already much discussed over the years, apparently there was a severe, unexpected and surprising barometer drop causing there to be even less oxygen in the atmosphere than other storms.

Making it even more difficult for those at those extremely high altitudes to breathe.

Haven't heard that R70. How much effect would that have on people breathing canned oxygen?

I thought the earthquake from a few years ago changed the face of the mountain top and made it easier to climb.

Weather research seems to indicate that on the day that George Mallory and Sandy Irvine went for the summit in 1924, there was a storm similar to the one that impacted climbers during the 1996 climb.

I remember in Into Thin Air, Jon nearly jumping out of his skin when he heard some horrendously loud thunder echoing round Everest. Terrifying. He barely made it back to Camp 4 in time.

Guys, they found some dead bodies recently while clearing up trash!

Because the trip is challenging, some people meet a more harrowing fate. Everest has claimed the lives of almost 300 climbers since the first attempt to conquer the mountain in 1921, two-thirds of whom are buried in the mountain’s ice and snow, the BBC reported earlier this year.

Did everyone migrate to another thread?

Any summits yet?

The climbers on Teams 1 and 2 were excited to come down out of the icefall and back into EBC this morning, as we finished up our Camp 3 acclimatization rotation. After weathering a bit of snow and wind at Camp 2, the skies cleared, and the teams were able to reach Camp 3 in good style. Teams 1 and 2 are now in need of some rest and relaxation here at Base Camp and are looking forward to some of head chef Kaji's cooking

So, all still alive and healthy! Wtf?

The big summit pushes haven't happened yet R79, hold your horses.

The ropes aren’t up at the summit yet. Since that big storm climbers headed back to base camp or even Kathmandu.

Can you be genetically predisposed to altitude sickness?

Has that pesky Jetstream left the top of Everest yet?

We need summit attempts, storms, frostbite narratives.

Keep an eye on things this weekend, there will probably be some movement to the top camps.

Why is this thread grayed out?

From the other thread:

"The Sherpas were dead, two more victims of an attempt to scale Mt. Everest. Members of a French climbing expedition, sensitive perhaps about leaving the bodies where they could not be recovered, rolled them off a steep mountain face. One body, however, crashed to a stop near Sherpas on a separate expedition far below. They stared at the frozen corpse, stunned. They said nothing, but an American climber observing the scene interpreted their thoughts: Nobody would throw the body of a white climber off Mt. Everest."

That’s right, they would just leave it there to rot forever.

Look at the way one of the posh Everest blogs talks about the Sherpas, as if they're a different species that get 'sent' hither and thither. It's no wonder so many of them die on the mountain.

This morning we sent four of our Sherpas up the Lhotse Face, and one of them dropped gear at Upper Camp 3 while the other three continued to the South Col where they dropped their loads of oxygen at our Camp 4. They reported the winds were blustery but manageable at the Col, and now they have all returned to Camp 2. Also today, we sent 30 Sherpas up from Base Camp, and they are now at Camp 2 resting and getting ready.

That's one of the things that pisses me off the most, about this parade of wealthy dentists lining up to summit Everest. They couldn't do it without risking the lives of the native people, and losing a few.

And throwing their corpses off the mountain to make the trails look nicer.

Ugh, R88, I found the blog you referenced. Repulsive. Just awful.

The Sherpas are used like lab animals to test the weather conditions. Just gross.

The culture around climbing Everest has changed substantially and some of you just joining us in the discussion seem ignorant of the backstories. First of all being a sherpa is not only something born to but also a well paid profession. Many sherpas run their own expedition/trekking companies now. The sherpas of Everest have stipulated that they make the first ascents to the top, and that is the rule now. They do this by being in charge of running the rope lines up. The master/sahib attitude you think is there is not as prevalent as 25 years ago. Also, bodies do not rot in such a cold place. And, on the Tibetan side of Everest, the Chinese have undertaken body clean-ups by rolling them off the side or into crevasses. This isn't done out of disrespect but because of simplicity of effort.

Let me guess: everything you know about climbing a big mountain you learned by reading Into Thin Air.

R92, nope, I've read about ten books by people who've summited and Krakauer doesn't even criticise the Sherpa culture, but makes them out to be a bit arrogant.

R92 Oh right, that is why the Sherpas were rioting what, 3 years ago?

[quote]The OP is on ignore for me and maybe is for others,

Ah I wondered why the OP is red tagged.

Yes, the Sherpas get paid a lot compared to other citizens of the Himalayan countries.

But until the summiting dentists die in greater numbers than the Sherpas, I shall continue to complain about a culture of exploitation.

R92 I certainly don't claim to know the ins and outs of climbing or the lifestyle and destiny of Sherpas.

But I'm human, and try every day to be decent. People may do work for me -- and do it better, but "we sent four of our Sherpas up" and "then we sent 30 up" is an abhorrent and flippant way to describe other humans who are helping you. Paying someone does not remove their dignity.

So exciting!

Ok R92, why don't you grace us with YOUR wisdom and explain all about why the sherpas rioted? You really really want everyone to know how smart you are.

R94 not R92, please explain, you are obviously an expert!

R100 Oh, here ya go love, was all over the Everest threads at the time.

Not R92, but they rioted because a team of crack climbers bypassed them and fixed their own ropes. They have a rule that they are the only ones to fix ropes and get paid for it, so they went on a strike and threw rocks at the team who fixed their own ropes.

Mount Everest Braces for Record Year Amid Overcrowding, Safety Fears

Most Everest aspirants will need the help of guides to reach the summit, meaning about 750 climbers will tread the same path to the top in the coming weeks when the weather is expected to be most favourable.

Today In History

In 1996, a blizzard on Mount Everest led to the deaths of eight people during summit attempts. The event was depicted in the 2015 film ...

A recent summary of the famous fails:

Mallory may have been found in 1936

[quote]R35 it's amazing. but for myself, the only climbing is out of bed......

Sometimes I can rouse myself to climb onto a big, sacred cock. But I need my oxygen mask, my native assistants, warm clothes, etc.

once I was chastised for bringing my laptop up there!

And frankly, the cost is prohibitive.

Scary pic of a long snake of posh boys heading up to Camp 3 on the fixed rope.

Tim Mosedale is on a different kind of mission. He wants to summit Everest, Lhotse and Nuptse then move to the Tibet side and summit Everest again. He was last reported on Nuptse Camp 3 at 6,855-meters/22,500-feet with two climbing Sherpas. The summit is 7,861-meters/25,791 feet.

Lots of climbers attempting to summit without oxygen. The jet stream is clinging to the summit for longer than usual but will be gone between 14-17.

R107 = Jennifer Lawrence

Sherpa brawl summary:

Sherpa were carefully fixing the ropes. It was pretty precarious that day so they radioed not to have anyone climb and use their ropes. A group of experienced 3 climbers with permits to climb Lhotse didn't care and climbed up their ropes and overtook them. The 3C assured the Sherpa they would not disturb them so the Sherpa let them go ahead so long as they were careful. The 3C unlodged a big piece of ice that smashed on the head of the highest-up Sherpa affixing the rope and as he was struck, he was ordered to retreat back. The 3C followed him and tried to bribe him with money. TThey were all on the same radios so everyone could hear what was going on. Much arguing and fighting ensued.

Basically the 3C might find it boring as fuck to wait around while the Sherpa fix the ropes, so they should have taken an alternate route.

Thanks for the post and link R112. I realize this is one-sided article, but I believe him. He makes valid observations about the government not wanting to blast the tourist climbers

With increased global warming and more bodies being uncovered on Everest, perhaps that increases the chances of finding Sandy Irvine's body.

He was George Mallory's climbing partner on the day they disappeared. There have been some reports that another climber might have found such an old body years back, but although others searched, that body was not found again.

And since Mallory did not have the camera on him when his body was discovered, hope remains that Irvine had the camera.

And that the camera could have photographs that show that Mallory and Irvine were the first to summit Everest in 1924.

Technical experts have been ready to process the old film and hopefully retrieve whatever pictures the camera might hold.

Mallory carried a photo of his wife that he planned to leave at the summit and the photo was not found with his body.

Comment from the Smithsonian article linked above:

The location where Mallory's body was found by Conrad Anker in 1999 cannot be described as a gully, and it is displaced quite a distance from the fall-line from the ridge beginning at the location of the ice-axe. However, several climbers since 1960 have indeed seen an object in a gully near the fall line, at a higher altitude, which could have been a body. The only such body could be Irvine's, since Mallory's body was found lower down. However, no expedition after 1999 has been able to reach the spot corresponding to the object that was spotted.

So more of the glacier has melted this year, and old bodies are being released in an unpleasant freeze dried state.

Finding Irvine's camera would be like finding The Titanic.

Nepalese Expedition Seeks to Find Out if an Earthquake Shrunk Mount Everest

Scientists and climbers have trained for three years to prepare to take various types of survey’s from the summit of the world’s highest peak

I’m seeing multiple teams talk about a summit push leaving the South Col the evening of May 15, Wednesday, and summiting the following morning around dawn on May 16. However, the jet is forecasted to return soon so this window will be dangerously short pushing most teams to look at the next one, sometime after May 20th . May 25 appears to be the best day according to some forecasts.

There are still many teams taking a holiday from base camp but are prepared to return quickly. Unlike the old days circa 2010, teams charter helicopters for a 12 minute flight instead of the 3 day walk between base camp and Namche!

Over on Lhotse, Imagine Nepal’s Mingma Sherpa left for the summit at midnight Tuesday, May 14th. They are fixing the ropes to the Lhotse summit, separate from the fixing on Everest. There are two Greek and one Pakistani climbers. If they summit, they will be the first from their countries. Mingma noted the conditions were “clear and calm with bright moon without

Everest Ropes

Madison Mountaineering‘s Garrett Madison who is hosting/managing the rope team gave this update:

Today our team was resting in can continue fixing and maybe even make it all the way to the summit and have the route opened up on Everest here on the south :)

With any luck they'll be trapped in a storm on 16 May.

Not the Sherpa. I don’t want the Sherpa to be trapped.

It would be funny if no teams but the Sherpa got to summit because of the small windows.

Graphic acc of prising three frozen corpses from above Camp 4 and taking them down to Camp 2 and then by plane to India for burial. A 150 lb man weighed 300 lbs after freezing.

Thank God I made it back with my cappucino machine.

"Unlike the old days circa 2010, teams charter helicopters for a 12 minute flight instead of the 3 day walk between base camp and Namche!"

Could someone explain this to me? Does it mean people are helicoptering part of the journey?

Yep. If teams want to leave EBC to deacclimatize at a lower height they don't have to hike it to civilization.

R124, remember everyone on Everest who is financing their own expedition is rich. A few extra hundred here and there on a helicopter ride to feast and sleep soundly at a lower altitude is nothing to these hoes.

Wonder which country has the rudest climbers.

At one of the camps someone died directly outside the tents and a Japanese group were noisily partying celebrating their summit. Brian Blessed walked in and pissed on the Japanese flag.

This is a good read. Alan Arnette almost dies of HAPE as he descends K2.

Perusing the blogs, it appears that there's concern that the jetstream isn't moving until so late in May that summiters might be caught out by the monsoon, which brings blizzards and melts some of the Icefall.

Around 300 people will be trying to summit around 23 May, much later than usual.

49 year old Kami shows them western dentists how it’s done.

Kami features in Alan Arnette's account of his summit of K2, R131 (see R129).

Great article, that. He basically had given up and decided to die but hadn’t told his guide who told him it was time to move as he was “resting” on the ice.

Yep, R133. Without the guide he would have died. K2 sounds like an absolute nightmare with all the technical climbing involved. It has a death rate of 23% for those who make summit attempts, much higher than Everest's 4%.

I was reading about some people who went up Everest and summited in the dark. How bizarre. I cannot see the point of that at all. Ideally you'd climb in the dark and get to the tricky summit ridge by about dawn, surely?

Has anyone tumbled off yet?

R122, thanks for the link. Incredible article.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if nobody summits this year because the weather never gives them the right kind of break? Or hardly anyone summits?

Oh, the whining we'll hear from all the goal-driven dentists! They paid good money and goddammit someone needs to get them to the fucking summit!

At least 30 summits so far, but the wind is going to slow the crowds for at least a couple of days.

R136 Yes. An Irish climber is missing after falling.

First death and it came as he descended from the balcony.

Now, this DL thread will heat up...

What ever happened to that fellow who tried to write a book... John Krunkauer, was it? Did he freeze up there? Shame.

Jon did write a book, and I think now, he stays at lower elevations.

R143, Jon Krakauer was an expert rock climber and he managed to get down to Camp 4 and into his tent before the storm that killed eight people hit. Everest was his first experience of climbing at altitude and he loathed it. When he got to the summit, he felt so ill that he experienced zero euphoria and only stayed 5 minutes. He was terrified that his oxygen would run out the whole time.

Congrats Seamus on summiting! You died doing what you loved.

Is that the proper way to put it?

And just think Seamus, now your frozen corpse may serve as an important marker to guide future summiters to the top. Someone has to replace Green Boots, who finally was repatriated by India.

I hope you said goodbye to your kids and explained to them there was a good chance you might die, but you just had to go up Everest - even if it meant abandoning the kids.

Climbing Everest just isn't as special as it used to be.

An Indian guy has died as well.

Seamus has disappeared so I don't know how well he will act as a marker.

A most unlikely group of Everest climbers. Good cinematography & music, close-ups of their struggle to get to base camp. What risks will they take to demonstrate Muslim women empowerment?

If they struggled to get to base camp, they will most likely die at the higher camps.

RIP Ravi.

Alan is worried because there have already been 11 deaths so far on the 8000 peaks and the big Everest push has yet to happen:

A horribly disturbing trend is showing all the signs of coming to full life this spring season across the world’s highest peaks. Thus far, 11 people have died on six 8000-meters peaks in Nepal and Tibet. And the main Everest pushes have not begun. About 110 people have summited thus far with another 700 to 800 on both sides going up next week.

I’ve been talking about the trend of inexperienced climbers with unqualified guides for many years now. My fear has been that with all the success seen on these big peaks, combined with operators offering low prices that it has in-fact attracted a new category of person who simply doesn’t know what they don’t know. Combine that with a lack of qualified support, when trouble happens it falls on the shoulders of a few to react. And often it is simply impossible.

Full article.

Geez, R154, are the goal-driven dentists of the world trying to conquer Himalayan peaks other than Everest now, now that Everest is so crowded?!? And assuming that a guide can get them to the top of K2 if they pay enough money?

That's insane! Everest is a VERY easy climb for a great Himalayan peak, but K2 isn't having that shit and it will kill any amateur who fucks around on its slopes.

Go Pro footage of the top.

It sounds so labored even with full face mask and oxygen tanks, can't imagine how much more difficult it is to do without.

They move so slowly!

K2, as well as being a much more technical climb, is also in an area renowned for much more unpredictable weather, with more chance of avalanches and ice breaking off due to very high daytime temps.

A lot of the dentists are after the Seven Summits or want to climb all the 8000 peaks. Annapurna handily kills 33% of those who attempt the summit, including, unfortunately, Anatoli Boukreev.

Fundraising page to help find Trinity College professor missing on Mount Everest reaches €180,000

That Irish guy fell off the Balcony so that fund will be ussd to repatriate his body, if it's ever found.

R160, some of the crazy Irish at that link actually think he's going to be found alive and rescued. Rob Hall died close to the Balcony and so did Scott Fischer. Their bodies were abandoned.

Waste of money.

I think it's selfish to send someone off to find the corpse when it puts another person at risk of death. If you die on Everest than you should stay on Everest.

I take my dog for a 30 minute walk twice a day. Sometimes, on the coldest winter days, I cut our loop short to 20 minutes because I'm too cold. I can't fucking imagine being there and just not able to get out of the cold.

Also, I hate waiting in line.

I remember in Thin Air, Jon K said the temp with wind chill on the night of the 96 disaster was -100f! Unimaginable cold.

Sherpa's save a woman's life as she slips climbing across a ladder.

Poor Sherpas. So many have been killed on the 8000 peaks already.

British millionaire with a family justifies his multiple Everest climbs. Up close footage of the dangers in this Doc.

R169, Corrected link.

Apparently one of the most dangerous things you can do on the summit is take off your O2 regulator to take a selfie, as the valve freezes up.

Just reread Thin Air and was stuck by how fast Jon K climbs - faster than all the guides! He was the first on Everest of Rob Hall's group.

The Irish guy is a frozen block of ice who is now keeping company with some of the climbers he emulated, no doubt.

This is the only DL thread I know of where you pretty much know that you're gathering with the same posters, year after year. It's kind of nice. I think last year I made posts in character as that creepy Cathy O'Dowd woman.

This year's thread probably has less activity because it was grayed out.

R174 Agree about the greying out, we should have started another, d'oh.

Yes, I’ve missed you all so much, it’s good to be together again.

Excelsior!

Glad everyone is reuniting, even with the grayed out thread!

r175 I did, but it didn't take off--unless I've been shadow-banned.

It got grayed out because of r5

R5 is OP, greyed out because he is troll 5508

3D view of the climb, spot of each of the 5 camps, Hillary Step, with numerous subtitles to read of Everest related facts. Mus background.

I am not an old timer of this thread but I do enjoy reading about mountain climbing.

I am here to yell at all the kids to read something more than Into Thin Air.

Are David Breashears and Ed Viesturs still active climbers on 8000ers?

Breashears did a great documentary on the 96 disasters for Frontline. Beck Weathers, Sandy Hill, Lene G, Charlotte F, Mike G, Neil B, sirdar Ang Dorje and several others were interviewed.

I always thought the main fault lied with the leaders and some of the guides. They knew about turn around times but completely ignored them. Bidelman admitted he stayed on the summit with clients for more than 1 1/2 hours. Way in the afternoon Rob Hall was still encouraging his client Doug Hansen to summit, and when they ran out of oxygen, Hall got another guide, Andy Harris to climb up to them with some bottles. All three died in the storm.

Both Hall and Fisher wanted success stories in the papers from Hill and Krakauer so they could extend their businesses. It was all driven by greed. And yes both leaders knew about an approaching storm.

Viesturs does mostly local guidework in Northwest US. He retired from the 8000s over 10 years ago, and while it didn't stick completely (he was back to Everest at least once after that), he hasn't been there regularly/recently.

I've read his autobiography and other pieces by him, and while he's among the most normal and sane climbers, he's still pretty crazy. I'm intrigued by mountain climbers, but have no interest doing it myself and think anyone who does has at least one screw loose.

Rob Hall was to blame for his own death, Doug's and that of the guide Andy Harris. Rob should have turned Doug round at 1pm instead of letting him plod on until after 5pm. If he'd left Doug when he collapsed, Rob could have saved himself and the Japanese lady Yasuko, also on his team.

Scott was sick with a chronic condition he'd Jon K said he'd picked up climbing Annapurna and wasn't fit to summit. He became ill and incapacitated on the descent and refused to move. I do speculate what the regular fevers Scott suffered from were. It was 96 and he was known to sleep around. Maybe he had AIDS?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The rock climbers are every bit as insane as the 8000 peakers but much poorer, so more relatable. Those portoledge tents they put up are vertigo inducing.

And that’s where we are this Sunday. However the big unknown is if the pesky jet will make a another appearance in mid-week spoiling all the plans. Literally hundreds of climbers are betting they can get the summit this week and are staged high today ready to go at a moments notice.

Oxygen bottles, tents, food, stoves and fuel have all been cached at the camps where the summit bids will start from the South Col on the Nepal side and the North Col on the Tibet side. At this point, anything can happen so this week will define the Everest 2019 season … along with a string of tragic deaths across the Himalayan 8000ers that, in my opinion, most could have been avoided.

(Alan Arnette)

[quote]Bidelman admitted he stayed on the summit with clients for more than 1 1/2 hours.

It's amazing that Neal wasn't one of the fatalities. I think he probably stayed at the top longer than any of them and yet he wasn't one of the low oxygen or edema victims. If Everest climbing was like horse racing I'd probably put my money on him.

Anatoli Boukreev gave Neal B his oxygen bottle, which he never used anyway, when he descend to south col. Neal B, Lene G, Charlotte F and Sandy H waited for Scott F to summit, but he was sick and slow and they didn't have any radio to communicate.

Nevertheless it was crazy to stay on the summit this long.

It is funny that every year this thread becomes a mixture of new summit news, general commentary, and (guaranteed) rehashing the '96 season. Not a complaint, I like reading about it as much as anyone, but here we are 23 years later (!) and it's still the one topic that gets discussed repeatedly.

Anyone else wondered if Scott had Aids? The Haart treatment only became available in late 96. He had daily unexplained fevers and tremor at Base Camp according to Lene G.

Fiirst African black woman summits Mount Everest.

Every one in the 1996 story has received their share of criticism except for Beck Weathers, the dwarf who went up there without telling anyone about his eye surgery and ended up blind.

Beck Weathers himself put his own actions under the microscope in his book Left For Dead. He was punished physically and almost lost his marriage. He's pretty honest about his behavior.

For another great "left for dead" story, read Lucky by Lincoln Hall. Same mountain, other side. 2006 season I think.

You can still seee a grayed out thread in the watcher and thread list. Part of the reason why a lot of the old timers are gone from the discussion is ultimately the thread will turn into the exact same discussions of books, movies and a rehash of 96.

Just saw r193. Completely agree. I suggested a sister thread last year for repetitive discussion.

96 gets a lot of talk because everyone read that book. 2006 was just as bad but doesn't get much traction here.

For a few years, we spent a lot of time casting cold eyes on people who climbed for charity -- they raised tens of thousands of dollars, but most of the money went for the climb itself, while some token dollars were turned over to the charity

These threads used to easily top out at 600.

There seems to be a lot more people climbing and getting killed on the other 8000 metre peaks these days. I imagine they are much cheaper to climb?

If you're serious about climbing Everest, you need to buy the most expensive climbing gear. And don't get a Charley Horse up there.

The other threads used to top out because we all were arguing about Into Thin Air, etc.

What about me?!

Do you remember that american kid that said he was youngest to summit, but no one saw him or his stage parents on the summit. the so called summit picture didnt show the view from the summit (it was really close in). At the time he had a spot tracker that was relatively new feature. At the time i pulled all the publically posted data and determined there was no way he summited. you could tell the point where he and his parents stopped. suddenly the spot is moving much much faster then before. It go back down in half the time it took to go up which i thought was tbe opposite of the norm. I really think they handed the spot to a sherpa who summited and then caught back up to them on the decent. Then the kid went on a book tour. I am waiting for the day when he commits suicide following the guilt. His dad was the super pushy type who saw his kid as a cash cow. I should find the location data and post it here. Anyone with experience using goolge earth or arc gis could confirm my theory.

It was morw than that, r204, I was the poster who was providing daily updates. I stopped halfway last year when the thread became a rehash of books and movies. .

Only a relatively few have summitted and the daily updates of now reflect this

There is a big summit pitch going on today.

I remember r206. He and his dad and his dad's hot new wife.

I love these threads, but I confess I found them only because I read Into Thin Air. In any case, I miss the updates on what’s going on right now on the mountain!

Interesting article on the impact of climate change.

Most of the people going up are pretty wealthy. If you're a fit climber but the issue is oxygen, couldn't some super tech bro pay for 100 sherpas to carry oxygen tanks the entire way and down? Plenty of oxygen and never run out?

It doesn’t matter, r213–you could have a hundred bottles of oxygen, but if you’re so cold you can’t move, it’s impossible to get you down from the mountain.

They need to make it a rule that you can't use oxygen at all. That would weed out the weak ones. They won't though, because they depend on the money.

There is already a trend to take on more oxygen, say 4 litres a minute but I think there is a limit as to how many Sherpas each expedition can have on their climbing permit.

David Sharp went with some 'just the basics' company. Just a bed in a tent at all the camps up to south col and food and then he was on his own. No Sherpa support, no radio, no oxygen.

Dozen of people have probably done it before and they all came back to base camp in one piece. Sometimes it's just luck whether you make it or not.

Some concern on AA's blog about the vast amount of people heading for the top over the next few days. They can't wait much longer or the monsoon will arrive:

Each year, Gyanendra Shrestha, a representative fo the Ministry of Tourism stays at base camp and tries to track who climbs when. He does’t really manage anything but helps with coordination and communication back to Kathmandu. He is key to help manage deaths. On his Facebook page he posted late today:

* May 21 : 122 people * May 22 : 297 people * May 23 : 172 people * May 24 : alternative option for big group

The infamous Adventure Consultants commented on the summit wind chill at ~-50C/-58F:

Recent forecasts for the days ahead have given wind chill temperatures of -50° c. Truly cold conditions that when matched with the depleted oxygen at 8000m, make really challenging climbing conditions. It’s essential to keep moving in conditions like that, so if those conditions potentially coincide with queues or moving slowly, you can appreciate the amount of time we give to making decisions, and attempting to choose the best summit day.

EverestER made a post about the cold a few days ago:

Just how cold and windy is it up there? This case of frostbite occurred in mere seconds, in a climber who removed gloves to change headlamp batteries at Camp 4. This brief exposure resulted in the frostbite we see pictured. (pic of guy with dark purple fingertips).

Today is going to be a big day! Lots of attempts in a very narrow weather window. Super cold.

DL fave Liz Chambers has a friend trying to summit. She posted about him a few days ago, don’t remember his name though.

Irish guy had a pregnant wife and a 4 year old.

Body of Indian climber, in group with missing Irish man, recovered from Mt Everest

Do they think they'll find him alive?

The page states that the family have “been left with no other option but to ask for assistance in raising funds to gather a team of expert Sherpas to locate and bring our beloved Shay home to Ireland”.

Alive = "Save Him!"

Dead = "Bring Him Home."

Seamus fell from the balcony and is probably 7000 feet down the Ltose Face by now.

I don't understand why anyone with a tiny child and a pregnant wife would embark on something so fraught with risk.

I'll admit to being a fairly risk averse person and I don't see the appeal in climbing mountains under any circumstances but I can at least respect people like Joe Simpson (Touching the Void) who made a point of never having a family or dependants because he recognises his passion is basically a death wish.

Agreed r227. It seems so selfish to do that when you have got people depending on you.

Another person has died on the way down from the summit. After a 12 hour push to the top American Don Cash became unconscious, was revived by his Sherpas, began descent and then got stuck in the traffic jam going back down. He became unconscious again and then died. His body will remain on the mountain, very high up near the Hilary Step.

Article on Cash.

R230, Don Cash was 55. Too old to be climbing? Or was it that he took a cut-rate Chinese tour leader? Another group member from India also got seriously ill and may or may not survive.

Seems like the ridiculous traffic jams contributed to this latest death. I always find the notion of queuing on a mountain to be absurd - I know Everest is an industry now and has been for sometime but it shouldn't be.

[quotes] It seems so selfish to do that when you have got people depending on you.

Not talking about actual expert climbers here, but the climbing dentists (or in the case if Seamus, academics) are basically bros. Climbing Everest is the bro-iest thing to do. Most bros can’t and won’t do it because of the health risk and expenditure and the lack of sanitation. But of those who can, it’s a way to gain adulation and gain extra penis inches.

It’s like running marathons. Bruce Dern is probably the most famous celebrity distance runner and for decades he would get steely-eyed, organised, Type A, corporate women who would approach him to formulate a training plan for them. Most of them weren’t runners at heart. It was another achievement for them: go to grad school. Hike the PCT. Marry. Go to Paris. Make partner. Have a baby. Run a marathon. They are at heart restless and thrive on adversity to function, so they keep adding on challenges, pointless or not.

A “leave no trace” rule needs to set in place. You take your gear, your used toilet paper, and your oxygen canisters back down with you or you climb back up to retrieve them.

"Don Cash was 55. Too old to be climbing? Or was it that he took a cut-rate Chinese tour leader? "

If the sudden unconsciousness was the result of HACE or high-altitude cereberal edema, that wouldn't be the tour leader's fault. It comes on suddenly and with no obvious cause of onset, it hits randomly and even strikes people who've tolerated extreme altitudes before.

It's just another insane risk you take when you climb the highest peak, the risk that your brain will suddenly swell up and kill you for no known reason. My sympathies to anyone who loved him.

I think the Nepalese gov should give out fewer passes so that a maximum of 300 people climb every year. 700 is far too many.

Nepal is a poor country, and I understand why they'd want to get more money out of the vacationing dentists rather than less.

But they could bring in the same amount of money if they raised the price of climbing permits and lowered the number available, and that would mean fewer traffic jams and less danger on the mountain itself. Believe me, a rich bro in search of imaginary dick-size points would pay more.

12 deaths so far, but only three on Everest.

Climbing Everest seems almost meaningless now.

Annapurna is the real prize, but 32 people managed that this year. An Annapurna winter ascent was what killed Boukreev.

R233 has it right. Everest hasn't been about real climbing in years--it's all about assisted climbing. If you can survive the altitude and you don't run into bad luck, the sherpas will make sure you get up and down. We're not talking major mountaineering skills at this point.

Which means a lot of people are up there who have no business doing high-altitude climbs. I think the conversation returns to 1996 just because Krakauer made it so clear how unqualified so many of the climbers were--including himself--and Krakauer could actually climb, just not at those kind of elevations.

In 1996, Krakauer climbed 'sometimes two hours ahead' of the rest of the group. On summit day, he had to wait around for hours on the balcony for the others to catch up. He even overtook the guides. The only thing he struggled with was running out of oxygen.

It’s now reported that Don summited after an extremely long push, over 12 hours, and became unconscious on the descent. The sherpas performed CPR and were able to revive him. They then moved him to the Hillary Step where he was caught in a traffic jam for 2-3 hours. It was here that he passed out again and took his last breaths. His body is said not recoverable and friends add “his final resting place will probably exactly where he wanted.”

R242, Krakauer, himself, said he had no business being up there. He had real climbing skills, but not high altitude experience. He said that made him a risk to other people. The people who were struggling behind really had no business being up there, but people like them are the people climbing and crowding Everest. If anything goes wrong, or they get separated from their guides and sherpas, they're helpless. Krakauer did run into trouble with oxygen deprivation, but did, of course, make it back to Camp Four. On the other hand, he was in no condition to help anyone else--something he clearly felt guilty about in his book.

With the Everest tourism, it doesn't sound like the team-member mindset even exists anymore.

Why is this thread crossed out ? Baffled here

I wonder whether Boukreev had a death wish. Annapurna before the monsoon is a high risk mountain, but after with tons of snow on it, it's like playing Russian roulette.

I guess people look for even bigger thrills and bigger risks every time they make it back alive after summiting another 8thousander.

Steck was the same, the year he fell off the Nupse flank on a training trip, he wanted to climb up Everest via the Holbein couloir and then down to south col and up the the Lotse summit.

These guys are obsessed with gratification thrills.

Do these risk takers actually realize they could die or do they believe they are too superbly physically conditioned and intelligent to die.

I think the thrill and the hunger for gratification is bigger than the threat of during.

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This is a decent read.

R250, For those of us who are not NY Times subscribers, can you please copy the most relevant part of that article? Seems fascinating. Thanks.

R250, Does the linked article from last year contain similar info?

" If you can survive the altitude and you don't run into bad luck, the sherpas will make sure you get up and down. We're not talking major mountaineering skills at this point. Which means a lot of people are up there who have no business doing high-altitude climbs."

That's one thing these annual threads have taught me, that Everest is a super-easy climb by the standards of 8,000m peaks. So if anyone who summits Everest thinks they're a mountain climber now and they can tackle Annapurna... they're going to get someone killed.

I don't know how the serious climbers justify their need to keep climbing to themselves, by all accounts it's a hellish experience and is full of dangers beyond a personal control. Like I said HACE and HAPE strike randomly, even people who've previously tolerated these altitudes can just die of these illnesses, and a human has no control over the weather, avalanches, or nasty surprises like rockslides. I mean look at Annapurna, it surface is entirely composed of avalanche chutes! Do you think paying a shit-ton of money to guides is going to keep you safe up there? No, you can't BE safe up there! When I was young I knew someone who went to Annapurna and is still there decades later, and nobody ever knew exactly what happened.

The NYT piece is apologia written by a mountaineer. He concludes:

"Selfish? No. Unable to see with absolute sobriety how dangerous their path is? Likely. But again, that doesn’t make them selfish, only human. Dying happens to someone else, until it doesn’t. The people who loved them didn’t do so in spite of their love for climbing, but because of it.

One truth goes to the heart of death in our community: You can’t fall out of love with something. Having known two of the three men who died on Howse Peak, I know that climbing made them feel alive. The question is — could we feel alive enough if we stopped? Most climbers think not.

I agree."

It's selfish to make people risk their lives to go get you. If you wanna climb and die, fine, but don't make sherpas go after, fucking Beck Weathers had the Nepali police copters come and that was expensive and dangerous.

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I have a technical question re the photo at r256. I see a lot of climbers (wow). But I don’t see any coming down the mountain. Do they come down the same way? Do they use the same ropes? Was this photo taken before anyone started to descend? I can imagine going up the mountain is crowded enough—I can’t imagine what it’s like with people going up and down simultaneously along the same path!

R257 It seems they have to go back the same way and wait for the crowds to thin.

A NYT article today seems to imply that the two deaths, including Cash, were due to delays in getting down off the summit.

The other fatality, Anjali Kulkarni, 54, an Indian, collapsed while returning from the summit with her husband, according to Arun Treks and Expedition, which led the trip.

“Due to the huge traffic yesterday and the delay in being able to return back, she couldn’t maintain her energy,” said Phupden Sherpa, the tour group’s manager.

Mr. Sherpa, who recalled similar episodes in 2017 that resulted in climber deaths, said it took the group an additional three hours to return to camp, a wait that he believes contributed to her death. Several of the climbers with Ms. Kulkarni returned to their camp with frostbite and other injuries.

I thought they finally put in one set of ropes to go up and another set to go down...

Regardless, R259, the Sherpas are saying that people are dying and suffering injuries descending due to the congestion.

"The people who loved them didn’t do so in spite of their love for climbing, but because of it. "

That's very rarely true, and it's sure as hell not true of the vacationing dentists who pay big bucks to be escorted to the peak. No, if their spouses and children aren't horrified that someone they love and need is risking their life for reasons of ego, then they'd rather have the life insurance than get the dentist back and there's no actual love.

One of the moments I recall (after looking at the picture at R256) from "Into Thin Air" was when the 3 climbers who, when the previously discussed turnaround time approached, decided to turn back. And were in their tents when the storm hit - and not out on the mountain.

The peer pressure to continue on, as well as the cost and the bragging rights must exert a strong pressure on people to continue when they should turn back.

Look at all those people in R256's picture, just standing up there in The Death Zone, using up their strength, their oxygen, daylight.

If I were a billionaire, I would buy up all the permits and only sell them to experienced mountaineers who can get up there and back with no ropes, no ladders, and no oxygen.

R254, Thank you for your post.

Seems like Everest denial is now a thing amongst CTers.

R262, they're following a fixed rope to the summit, all moving. No-one's standing around?

On on the rope leading to the summit, is there another rope for the descent or does traffic in both directions use the same rope?

Oops, sorry, missed the above responses

About the two ropes - isn't part of that very high climb on a knife edge? One of the documentaries about the 1996 story had Charlotte Fox describing it.

I could believe there could be an "up" and a "down" rope for certain sections. But I don't think it's possible for the most treacherous sections.

I’ll bring up Into Thin Air again when people say Everest is not a technical challenge—it may not be, but when you’re that high up, your biggest challenges are the elements, not the mountain. Many a strong mountain climber met their death, not because of their capabilities, but because the elements turned on them.

I don't think they always have one rope line going up and one rope line going down.

Quite often they have to clip off the rope one by one to let the opposite team pass.

Also, after the earthquake, didn't the Hillary Step become more of a ramp? (as long as there was lots of snow.)

R181 Yes, OP is a troll and probably blocked by a lot of people. That's why most see the grey-out thread title.

r258 Yes, most of the deaths are on the way down. They die of exhaustion. It really isn't the climb that kills you and then having been in the death zone for too long they can't get down fast enough. R270 is right. Also, they lose 40 pounds on that climb and it's muscle tone they lose.

There's just one rope, for going up and down. Some of the more experienced climbers don't use the communal rope coming down. If there were two ropes, people going up would use that one too.

Another three deaths on Everest yesterday, see article. Of the 14 killed on the 8000 peaks this year, seven have been Indians. Indians seem to be poorly prepared or especially susceptible to HA illnesses. Three of the 1996 victims were Indians, including Green Boots.

They issued too many climbing permits.

I find this all so fascinating, yet find the climbers to be insane and incredibly selfish. Can’t imagine how any parent could take that risk with kids behind. I remember applying for life insurance a decade ago and they carved out coverage for risky shit like mountaineering and sky diving. I’m sure you could pay for coverage but it would be a small fortune (prob a good investment if you are doing this because the risk is so high).

I’ve studied ‘96 a lot and have always thought that Hall was certainly responsible for Andy Harris’s death but he also had a ton of climbers in tow who had no business being up there, namely Beck and Doug. He was literally planning to drag their asses up and down that mountain for a hefty fee and it backfired when the weather turned and the backlog led to such delay.

3 more died trying to descend.

They'll build a funicular up there one day. Then it'll be like visiting Switzerland.

Where are people finding current info? There has to be an online site with info straight from the mountain. I’m morbid and bored.

R280 Alan Arnette's blod

R226, They had too few safe climbing days this year due to very bad weather. That meant unusually large numbers on the mountain.

8 dead now, two Irish.

"Of the 14 killed on the 8000 peaks this year, seven have been Indians. Indians seem to be poorly prepared or especially susceptible to HA illnesses."

That may be a statistical anomaly. India is a huge and populous country that's practically next door to Nepal, there may be a high proportion of Indians present in the Himalayas, which would mean a higher proportions of Indians being doing everything including summiting, as well as getting sick or dying.

I don't know. I don't have any demographic information about tourists on Everest, and I'm not going to look for any.

Alan Arnette's blog from May 23, 2019.

I'd love to hear Russell Brice's opinion on this. He takes a lot of shit, but in the past he's co-ordinated a lot of the behind the scenes work that prevents images like this. He's also a no-nonsense Kiwi, who would have no hesitation in calling out local operators.

I got the sense he'd sort of given up trying to deal with it.

I wish we had a "Mountaineering Insider" like we've had on other professional threads.

bigger photo

From r287:

"Kenton Cool, who climbed Everest on 16 May for the 14th time while guiding a client, told the Guardian there were two overlapping issues: the growing popularity of Everest, not least among Indian and Chinese climbers; and declining levels of experience among those tackling the mountain – once regarded as the preserve of elite mountaineers."

The same people that are overruning every other destination, as well.

Yeah, I liked Russell Brice too.

[quote]Of the 14 killed on the 8000 peaks this year, seven have been Indians. Indians seem to be poorly prepared or especially susceptible to HA illnesses.

Of the 14 killed on the 8000 peaks this year, seven have been white people. White people seem to be poorly prepared or especially susceptible to HA illnesses."

r290 is one of those people who have to intrude with contemptuous corrections.

Looks like a hot and cold mess.

I hate waiting in line and being in the cold. No freaking way.

There's a semi-religious aura around Everest in India--so, a bit like making a pilgrimage. And, yes, it does mean that it becomes the goal for Indians who haven't spent their lives climbing mountains and don't have the money to hire the best guides and tour operators. Westerners are more likely to be adventure tourists mixed in with actual mountain climbers.

But that's a lot of dead people this season given that there's been no avalanche or storm stranding people. Pretty much one accident and then people done in by overcrowding and, thus, staying too long in the death zone.

How does Everest kill people?

'Altitude sickness' refers to the group of potential dangers faced by high altitudes, and is also known as 'mountain sickness'.

It is caused by gaining altitude too rapidly, which doesn't allow the body enough time to adjust to reduced oxygen and changes in air pressure, and causes hypobaric hypoxia (a lack of oxygen reaching the tissues of the body).

In the so-called death zone on Everest, above 28,000ft, there is not enough oxygen for a human body to survive for long. Climbers who get stuck above 28,000ft are certain to die.

In severe cases, fluid builds up within the lungs, brain or both.

Symptoms of the illness include: headaches, lethargy, a lack of coordination, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, and insomnia.

It's an average number of deaths for Everest and a historically high amount of climbers for one day.

Okay, we are now at TEN deaths on Everest. The latest is a 44 yr old British guy who got exhausted in the queue.

Another thing these guide companies do for the climbing dentists is shoot them up with dexamethasone, acetazolamide, and Cialis to try to ward off mountain sickness.

So their "great ascents" are just being drugged and dragged up and down the mountain by Sherpas...

Stink link r297.

Every day I'm reading of a new Everest death it seems this week - I remembered the DL thread and csme but have a read through.

Ten deaths in just this past week ??

How does this figure compare year to year season to season- (just two months of the year I understand?) - that picture on the ridge this year is INSANE.

R300, it's higher than average. There have also been eight deaths in May on the other high Himalayan peaks. So 18 in all.

From the WaPo:

Mount Everest has gotten so crowded that climbers are perishing in the traffic jams.

Sorry -- let me try again

Seems like an expensive suicide mission. Try Mount Kilimanjaro first.

In 1996, when the Into Thin Air climb took place, a permit to climb Everest cost $65,000.

Now, it is $11,000.

The pictures of people queuing up are horrendous.

[quote] [R290] is one of those people who have to intrude with contemptuous corrections.

r290 is one of those people who makes ignorant people uncomfortable.

R305, That explains a lot. You don't need a sponsor or great personal wealth to afford that. Also means you're more likely to get tourists looking to cut costs in other ways, by using cut-rate expedition groups

That link by R298 is fascinating--people drugging their way up and down, but as a doctor points out in the article, if you take the drug and then run into trouble, there's no treatment left.

Everest really shouldn't be a bucket-list item for non-mountaineers and that's what it's become. The main guy in the drug story had climbed Rainier and Denali--but neither of those is anywhere near the death zone. Beginners can climb Rainier, it doesn't require any technical skills.

R305, 65 thousand was the cost for the whole trip from Lukla, including the permit.

Are there porta potties all over the place or just squat and dumps

Just imagine you die up there and people step over your dead body the next 100 years and take selfies and pictures of you and shit. If you are not lucky and fall off a huge cliff or die near the base camp, your body will remain and be conserved there for at least 100 years or more. By then the whole mountain is probably covered with shit, urine stains and trash and you get a fancy name like "green boots" while people step over you or have their lunch breaks next to you.

How can anyone see that big line and think it is something they would want to do?

And we already saw photos of ridiculous lines from a few years ago.

R310, the porta potties are behind the craft beer tent, just next to the charging station.

R313 Thought so.

R305 no, $56k was the cost of a place on Rob Hall's expedition in 1996. The permit is $11k.

Before the shit hit the crowd on the Everest summit, I said that the Nepalese ought to raise the price of climbing permits and lower the number available. At least double the price and halve the number, if not more! If people are literally dying because they're stuck in line in the Death Zone, then there's nothing to do but lower the number of permits!

Okay, the weather has been a factor this year, more people are trying to crowd up there in a smaller amount of time. But the Nepalese government really does need to reduce the number of dentists up there! And BTW they should also change who gets a permit - if more people want permits than the government is willing to give out, then the permits should go to those who are in the best shape or who have the most climbing experience. Or have a multi-tiered permit system, with only a certain number of people allowed first crack at the peak, with others allowed a shot if the weather window stays open. Tough shit if the tour operators don't like it.

spiritual

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r316 many of the Westerners, including tour operators have been calling for it. It's a sensitive topic because it's not politically correct to say that the cut-rate, barely competent local expedition companies have caused the problems.

Is Mandy Moore wearing making while ascending? Needs sunblock more.

Makeup ^

Why didn't Chrissy Metz go with Mandy?

Chrissy Metz arrived at Base Camp and triggered another deadly earthquake.

Mandy Moore? Oh for fuck's sake...

Maybe at the end this guy was able to utter, "I was right!" before he died.

Any new deaths or disasters today?

More reports about overcrowding and people behaving in despicable fashion...

Around the same time, Rizza Alee, an 18-year-old climber from Kashmir, a disputed territory between India and Pakistan, was making his way up the mountain. He said he was stunned by how little empathy people had for those were struggling.

“I saw some people like they had no emotions,’’ he said. “I asked people for water and no one gave me any. People are really obsessed with the summit. They are ready to kill themselves for the summit.’’

JFC how many times has this been discussed in the media? YOU are responsible for yourself on the mountain, along with a guide/adventure company if you have one. No one is obliged to help you, and many may be unable to even if they look like they are doing OK.

The NYT is just clickbait shit now.

Calm down, R328. Everyone has a right to their opinions in that environment. Such as this 3-time Everest summiter: "I have a lot to say and share. I cannot believe what I saw up there. Death. Carnage. Chaos. Lineups. Dead bodies on the route and in tents at camp 4. People who I tried to turn back who ended up dying. People being dragged down. Walking over bodies. Everything you read in the sensational headlines all played out on our summit night."

Hope someone makes a doc about this year.

Experienced or not, they all should turn back. It is selfishness of a degree I cannot even fathom to keep going in those conditions. You're putting not only yourself but others at risk. Let all the selfish bastards all die up there.

LOL at people blaming the Indian and Chinese climbing a mountain in their own backyard.

“The cheap-ass Indians are making it more crowded for dentists and badass Kiwis!”

r329 I'm not mad at the people there who were upset, I'm mad at the NYT for their current shitbait "journalism". They ratchet up the drama, and don't put any of this into proper context. Those people, and any one else really, have the right to say whatever they want.

Why is it so fucking hard to regulate this? Just estimate the number of people who can get to the summit safely in one day and give everyone a time window. Give out a limited number of permits accordingly. If you can't make it to the summit on that day bc of bad weather conditions etc. Well, too bad, you have to come back another time. Just give out a limited number of permits and if money is an issue for governments, just auction the permits off to who pays most.

People are totally trashing the mountain and leave their tents, food, oxygen and feces behind and endanger themselves and other people. Climbing Everest should be a huge privilege and not as easy as booking a cruise ship trip.

China likes the permit Money. Nepal needs it.

I think they could be making more $. Fewer permits, higher prices, lottery system for qualified climbers

R336, if Nepal wants to raise the permit prices to $100,000K for a single designated one-day window, the dentists who want to be badasses would pay it.

No, the only people who profit from having too many people on the mountain are the guides and tour operators and the Sherpas who work for them. There are far too tour operations going at the same time, and reportedly some of them aren't making the safety of their clients and employees a priority.

Issue this year was way too few reasonably safe climbing days due to bad weather early on. However the Sherpas warned it would be a deadly year due to the higher than normal number of tragic Sherpa deaths at the very beginning of the season.

Not allow those who've paid over $50,000 to summit at all once they arrive? There would be a riot. Like warning about the use of Fentanyl that could be added to certain drugs. Does that make users abstain? Sad way to thin the herds.

Human waste gets bagged up and thrown in riverbeds and then gets washed downstream during monsoon season in the summer.

Credit: Alton Byers

r340 to put that in context, natives in the region pollute in the same way. Framing it as an anti-West issue is not fair or correct.

R340 Maybe at base camp. From what I've read, the other camps are covered with shit, yellow snow and trash. People piss and shit right next to their tents bc it is too dangerous in the dark to go somewhere else or they are too exhausted.

r342 is right, remember that Asian guy in the 96 expedition? Went outside in the middle of the night to take a dump and wasn't wearing boots, just the slippery undercooks, and he fell/slid down the mountain mid-dump. What an embarrassing way to go, like a fucking cartoon character.

Really, why the upset about deaths on Everest? Anyone who attempts the climb understands the risks. It is well known that the climc is so crowded that time will be wasted going up and down. All those who climb know this and that this increases the risk of death.

Good for the NYT to publicize this ridiculous charade.

Do you think the NY Times is trying to save lives? Or will it ironically have the reverse affect and increase the number of dare devils on the mountain? Recall the Evel Knievel (sp) crazy copycats, some of whom were way too young to die.

I hate the NYT as much as anyone, but the anger at them for reporting this story is pretty dumb.

"Anyone who attempts the climb understands the risks"

Oh, they've all been warned of the risks, that doesn't mean they actually understand.

To the people saying more regulation is the answer, I ask this: Who, at 28,000', is going to police time slots to summit?

These are obsessed individuals who have paid large sums of money for bragging rights. Even if permits were limited, the weather is the key factor. Nothing is going to stop a determined person climbing Everest. Deaths are inevitable, sadly.

r338 which is why the regulation that would stop it never happens. The Western companies like Himex are expected to troubleshoot and mediate all the collaborative tasks and disputes that arise. They've raised objections for years, as have their guides-Sherpa and Western alike. Because of their actions, things have gone smoother and fewer people have died. Now, there are too many local operators not competent to run trekking companies and too many permits. No one can say anything because it's not PC, and no one wants to piss off the Chinese. I think some of the higher end tour operators (i.e. Brice) got tired of being on the wrong end of the moral hazard and withdrew a bit. This is the result.

Anyone familiar with Everest like, I don't know--people who are climbing it, knows the rules. The climbers are shocked! shocked I tell you! that this is happening. Really? The tone of the NYT coverage is over-wrought.

It sounds like the problems are on the Nepal side, so I don't see how this is the problem of the Chinese.

"Nothing is going to stop a determined person climbing Everest. "

Regulation might not stop real climbers, but do you really think our dentists are so determined to summit that they'll hit the trail even if their guides and Sherpas aren't there to help? Of course not! These aren't expedition climbers, these are people who paid their money and expect the service people to make the summit happen!

No, if you told all the gung-ho dentists at base camp that the Nepalese government had shut down climbing, they wouldn't just start climbing, they'd try to bully their guides and Sherpas into helping them climb.

r350 there are also permits from the Tibet side aka Chinese occupation. More inexperienced Chinese and Indian climbers are also involved on both sides.

A few years ago, the DM had a(nother) feature about the then Everest climb. A Type-A climber though they could forego the recommended assent/decent repeated pattern in their approach to the mountain (altitude adjustment). The climber died due to ignoring this proven method, along with the climber's accompanying Sherpa.

Alpenglow is a company formed for the sake of saving time for the busy dentists. They developed a special acclimatising tent for use at home and now the dentists don't have to trek in from Lukla, they can 'coptor in to Base Camp straight from Katmandu. Apparently it helps speed up the ascent significantly.

I don't know...there used to be a spiritual tradition of slowly trekking up and doing a puja at the monastery while becoming accustomed to the altitude. Will that tradition fade away in the next decade or so?

[quote] if you told all the gung-ho dentists at base camp that the Nepalese government had shut down climbing, they wouldn't just start climbing, they'd try to bully their guides and Sherpas into helping them climb.

Ha r355! Here is Arnette's blog from 2013 in reference to the deadly 2012 season. This was ridiculous and I bet it's even more coddle-y now.

“Pre-acclimatization” by using oxygen tents in the comfort of your home before you arrive “remove the discomfort and potential trip-ending health issues of a slow traditional acclimatization through the Khumbu Valley” with helicopter services almost all the way in and out of base camp avoid the backbreaking work of carrying a pack, we carry everything for you meaning “you never climb with more than a daypack” avoid the “substandard” local food with imported food avoid missing surfing the internet, “unlimited wifi internet use in BC” In the end “All of this together allows you to take less time away from work or home (only 50 days to climb Mt. Everest or Lhotse), and climb more safely and comfortably.”

Just watched "Death Zone' about a Sherpa expedition to clean up trash and remove 2 bodies from the death zone.

It's a very moving documentary following these courageous Sherpas. It was infuriating to see all the garbage, and them risk their lives (3 died) for hikers pursuing a thrill. One of the hikers went up alone without a team or accompanying Sherpa or oxygen. People died to bring his body down.

One suggestion the movie made was to require the hiring of 1-2 more Sherpas to every group yo clean up after the team.

Kiwi Guy Cotter

r358 this is interesting:

[quote] Cotter said such weather-induced congestion could be eased if the climbing season was extended by getting fixed ropes to the summit laid earlier. This was currently organised by the Expedition Operator's Association of Nepal, which tasked a single team of four to fix the ropes.

Brice used to co-ordinate that, along with other major companies.

"Cotter said such weather-induced congestion could be eased if the climbing season was extended by getting fixed ropes to the summit laid earlier."

I thought the Sherpas went up to fix ropes as soon as it was safe to do so.

So wouldn't sending them up earlier put their lives at greater risk?

Another article about the Everest issues, this time from The Guardian. As someone said up-thread, who could see the now famous photo from this year and think 'Yeah, I wanna be a part of that'.

Can that one poster stop calling these climbers dentists? Puhleeze?

It's not cute.

Plus, we see these folks come from all walks of life.

How anyone who has a child could be so selfish as to risk making their kid an orphan just for a thrill? Climbing Mt Everest with the current traffic jams is sheer suicide.

typo: How can anyone who has a child...

Is the Nepali government actually investing in education; giving Sherpas another opportunity than making a living from portering and climbing? Where is all this money going? It's Sherpas who are actually attributing mostly to the big cash cow that is Everest. I think a few years back the government hadn't even established a pension fund for the families of insured or deceased Sherpa climbers. Is there something like a union for Sherpas?

[quote] “All of this together allows you to take less time away from work or home (only 50 days to climb Mt. Everest or Lhotse), and climb more safely and comfortably.”

Only 50 days to climb Mt. Everest? Wait, it takes more than 50 days if you don't use the chopper?

Hmmm... if I had half of a brain, I think I would pause, because months on the slope increase your odds of dying.

Now, I can see perhaps a week on the slope being doable, if I was a person jumping into this challenge without a thought.

Thanks for sharing all these articles.

Another climber dead. American lawyer on the descent.

It's so weird that they all die on the descent. This must be the easy part and only takes a few hours to get out of the death zone after summiting. Did they all run out of oxygen or got mountain disease because they waited too long in traffic in the cold during ascent?

R369, the longer they stay in the Dead Zone where the thinnest air lurks, the more likely they are to suffer from HAPE, HACE or hypothermia. So descending is always more tricky.

11 deaths on Everest compared to two last year, plus eight on the other 8000s in May.

A Canadian photog posted a pic of the climbers all trooping past an ugly corpse trapped on the ropes. 🤮🤮🤮🤮

^ Link to pic, please.

Tbh 371 I would like to see that photo (yes I’m a ghoul). Quick question to those knowledgeable—I’m assuming these folks die of HAPE or HACE, not lack of oxygen; is that true? I would think all of the “amateurs” are carrying bottled oxygen.

What they really need is a team of responsible white men to go in and clean up the whole business.

[quote]corpse trapped on the ropes.

Was that the German MD who died a few seasons back?

Daily Mail has it.

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R377 Thanks, but you don't really see anything. Just a blurry grey "object".

Must be a nightmare to cue up in a big long line to get to the top and seeing dead people left and right.

Even if you make it back home in one piece, how can you still brag about such a shitshow experience. Do they even get to the summit with so many people waiting?

If the dentists do it just for the bragging rights, R379, you bet your ass they're gonna brag!

Of course now that the news is full of stores about corpse-littered paths and shit-covered camps, they may not get as much admiration for it as they think they deserve. Honestly, the whole experience sounds like physical torture, the kind that would make a 3rd world prisoner beg for mercy and a lawyer, but the people who do it are so focused on the goal and the bragging rights that they endure it anyway. I'm really glad I'm not pathologically goal-driven.

I got you, guys.

Ultimate DL Everest thread corpse porn.

😂

Hape and Hace are caused by lack of oxygen. Breathing bottled 02 doesn't make you feel as if you're at sea level, it only takes you down 2k feet so 28k feels like 26k. And for some, the 02 isn't enough and their brain starts to swell or they get water in their lungs.

Who else takes a smug delight in reading the My Everest Hell type books while tucked up warm in bed or on the sofa?

All of us, R383. That's why we're here.

The scene at Everest is just tedious. They should shut this shit show down entirely.

Maybe charge 10 x the amount and only let a few up a year, and distribute the money to all the Sherpas and their families. Improve the local school system. Teach the Sherpa kids how to code so they can pursue other types of employment.

I think this has a lot to do with greedy Nepali government officials who don't want the gravy train to end.

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I don't understand Arnett's logic about what killed the current lot of mountaineers. He said "it's not about the crowds." (May 26, 2019) But then read his entry called The Everett Deaths.

------- So it is about the crowds --- people ran out of oxygen and physical stamina waiting to ascend and then descend. The Japanese woman had to wait 12 hrs.

Looks like a lot of the people who died were over 50, some even in their 60s. Maybe they're just too old for this. They may have the money, but not the physical strength to survive this. 30 years ago only top mountaineers with lots of experience and in excellent physical condition climbed Everest. Today it seems they let everyone and people who can't even put on their own shoes climb Everest. Some in that article above described it as "Zoo" with hundreds of people waiting to get to the summit and the summit was totally overcrowded. Maybe the doctors and lawyers will finally realize that this shitfest is not worth all that money.

In one of the above articles it was noted some of the climbers didn't know how to put on crampons.

But they're climbing Everest.

In "Into Thin Air" (1996) , Krakauer saw one of the Taiwan team members trying to put his crampons on upside down.

Recall the videos I posted re the Middle Eastern Women climbing the mountain to achieve their dreams?

Everest is at a similar cruising altitude to a plane and the views are similar. Why bother? Just fly over them.

Will this year's Everest season spawn a new batch of My Everest Hell (thanks R383) books?

I just bought "The Climb" I can't wait to read it. I already can see that Boukreev has hailed himself as a hero of the 96 expedition.

Well, he brought all his clients back to EBC. The others can't say that.

[[quote]R160 Fundraising page to help find Trinity College professor missing on Mount Everest reaches €180,000

Sure... risk more lives to find his desiccated corpse. That’s productive.

[quote]R196 Every one ... has received their share of criticism except for Beck Weathers, the dwarf who went up there without telling anyone about his eye surgery and ended up blind.

Ha ha.

r388 he's right. It's not the crowds per se. It's absence of the logistics and rules that the Western operators, led by Russell Brice, used to hammer out every year before they started out (establishing & enforcing turn-around and/or cut-off times, for example) This year a Nepali org did that, and look what happened.

It's also the fact that they are unqualified to be up there. If you vetted clients better, then you could have the numbers and not have problems, because you'd be organizing the summit pushes differently. That's the responsibility of the Nepalese and to a lesser extent the Chinese governments.

[quote]R342 People piss and shit right next to their tents bc it is too dangerous in the dark to go somewhere else or they are too exhausted.

Are we having fun yet?

I for one don't see this as a tragedy that needs more OH&S and streamlined logistics. It is a sacred place that really doesn't need to climbed by foreigners for any other than narcissim.

I go as far to say they don't need to vet climbers any more than they do. The thing is, Nepal isn't a Nanny State. So Nepalese make what money what they can out of these egotists. The fact is, climbers have an excellent chance of dying when climbing the Himalayas.

If you die - especially if you are a "dentist" over-40 - tough titties.

I thought that "The Death Zone" began at 20,000 feet above sea level, more or less. That's the altitude where the human body can't keep going for long, the hypoxia begins to damage the body at the cellular level and the only way to stop it is to go to a lower altitude. But now people on this threat are calling 28,000 feet or higher "The Death Zone"?

Am I getting something wrong, or is there.. a Slow Death Zone and a Quick Death Zone?

"So [let the] Nepalese make what money what they can out of these egotists. "

You know, you're right. The problems of overcrowding and lines and shit in the campsites and corpses on the trail have been going on for YEARS, anyone who's taken the slightest interest in Everest knows abut them. If these doctors, lawyers, and dentists want to pay money for that, let them.

r403 the difference is it's reached the tipping point because of the locals. They don't realize that they will kill the golden goose if they don't deal with it.

Strangely I read about a climber who was unable to endure the low oxygen levels at high altitude. He trained for the trek to the top for at least a year. He was 35 years old. Another man was able to successfully reach the summit of Mount Everest and go back down again with few issues and he was 70 years old.

Media haven't revealed how many climbers in 2019 lost their fingers & toes due to frostbite, or had to be emergency helicoptered out due to various medical emergencies. But at least they didn't lose their lives.

[quote]R401 I for one don't see this as a tragedy that needs more OH&S and streamlined logistics.

I see it as a FULL OUT COMEDY.

Only the most unbearable type of person would ever undertake this... so seriously, let them all die.

R405, That seventy year old was probably active his whole life, but I bet at that age it all comes down to good genes.

If you think about it, all those fifty and sixty year old professionals have waited their whole lives to make that kind of money, so it makes sense they’re doing it at that age.

In the old days, young, experienced climbers were sponsored and they didn’t have to personally own that money, they and/or their sponsor raised it through endorsements. The early explorers were often sponsored by newspapers in return for giving their exclusive stories about the trip. The stories were published in serial form and gave readers a reason to buy the paper. Win-win. Or climbing gear manufacturers helped sponsor them. In order to get this type of sponsor, you had to be an experienced climber and well prepared. They weren’t random dentists.

I can only imagine what the locals, who believe the mountain is occupied by a goddess, think of sloppy pigs shitting everywhere and dropping like flies, only to have their corpses abandoned like litter all over the mountain. Maybe their government doesn’t care, but I bet they do.

I get the obsession and all that "I climbed Everest" but it seems to have lost the allure of being a sacred and impassioned venture. Too commercial I guess, one could say.

Until I read these Everest threads I thought I was the kind of fool that could have empathy for anyone even if they didn't deserve it but the more I learn about the people that climb Everest the more I just don't feel sorry for them when they die.

Polluters.

R410, Like this Everest climber?

Does he have a speech impediment? Is he partially deaf?

His voice sounds strange —

R413, READ the Comments re this douche.

[quote][R403] the difference is it's reached the tipping point because of the locals. They don't realize that they will kill the golden goose if they don't deal with it.

It won't stop people from climbing. The pros who can climb will still climb, the dentists with more money than sense will still try to tick it off their bucket lists.

Like R380 and just about everyone else posting/reading here I think it sounds like hell. I too like to read Everest books (about half a dozen summits notched on my 'read' belt now) while tucked up all warm and cosy. If it's wet and windy outside then all the better. But even for those who are fine with heights, walking up long steep hills and being cold it sounds awful in the extreme. Most people seem to feel nauseous all the time, can barely eat, suffer horrible headaches, can't sleep, and doing anything, be it having a piss or doing up your bootlaces, takes immense effort and taxes your brain. Then you go through the whole painful grind of summit day, where it sounds like you take a step and need to rest, in order to get to the top, take a selfie and a panorama shot if your camera hasn't frozen and everything's not obscured by clouds, and then get the fuck out of there before the sum parts of the whole experience kills you.

I can understand feeling pride and joy in achieving something outside a comfort zone, have even done it myself in a few situations, but a lot of these climbers seem to want to 'conquer' the world's tallest mountain as if that will make them 'bigger' than it, and I doubt they pay much mind to the fact they'd have fuck-all chance without a wallet full of money and a mini-army of organisers and guides helping them get up there. Their victory over the mountain is all they think about and it's that 'type' that I find it hard to care about if and when they fall off the edge.

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CNN is going all out to warn people but it is too late for this year.

They should make all the dentists who pay to summit acclimate by going up to the camps to pick up garbage and shit.

You don't get to summit unless you bring back at least ___ kilos of garbage!!

You're right R416! It all sounds horrible and seems to be part of the hardest climbs. There has to be some fun at some point. But R416 there are climbers who have roamed around the world on a minimum budget just for the experience of climbing, and some of them have written about their experiences (Mark Horrell) And kudos to you for reading outside of Into Thin Air.

Thanks R420. I was a little concerned that my post was getting longer than a summit day queue so I didn't spend so long qualifying my disdain for some, but by no means all, of those attempting Everest. It's really the ones who want to climb it because it's the biggest and just do what is needed to achieve that and maybe never climb another mountain in their life. They just had to 'beat' that one. They are probably in a minority really but do seem to be a definite subset of Everest climbers. Re other Everest books, I particularly liked the one about the search for Mallory's body and another about the commercialisation of Everest. I'll find out and post their names. It's funny - my interest, like others here I suspect, emerges every May when the season is on and then wanes for the rest of the year. I'm the same with the tennis - when the Aus Open is on I follow it closely and then pretty much ignore the sport until the next one rolls around.

A lot of us have read books about mountaineering other than "Into Thin Air". For instance, when I was younger, I read many books by climbers, including Tenzing Norgay's.

The most interesting was a used book about the first ascent of Annapurna, by Maurice Herzog. There was the usual stuff about the technical difficulties of the mountain and the climb... but it was the only book where the climber actually talked about feeling joy at summiting. Most climbers don't discuss their feelings in books, it's against their Guy Code or something, but Herzog reported that when he finally got to the summit alone he felt... the strangest feeling of absolute happiness. He said he stumbled off the peak in a daze of euphoria and it took him hours to realize that his gloves were gone and his hands were so badly frostbitten that he ended up losing most of his fingers. And that the great mountain hadn't brought him to a state of nirvana, that was hypoxia doing strange things to his brain.

And it was then I realized I NEVER wanted to climb the Himalayan summits!

Yeah that's a great read R422, the part where he loses his gloves are riveting.

R419 He was born in the UK. Then his family moved to New Hampshire when he was young. This is why his accent kind of changes and doesn't sound totally English or American.

Another Guardian article.

The Sherpas have created an entire industry around Everest and the Nepalese government has Sherpas in powerful positions who will always legislate to benefit that industry. It's currently a law that all climbers must pay for a Sherpa to accompany them one to one up the mountain.

I don't see the government issuing fewer permits next year.

r263 here -- actually, if I were a billionaire, I'd buy up all the permits and then pay the Sherpas not to climb. I'd give them their pay plus 25% to stay home and not endanger themselves...

'That seventy year old was probably active his whole life, but I bet at that age it all comes down to good genes.'

It is a dna thing. Something about the body's ability to make more red blood cells quickly, or blood/02 levels. I got mild altitude sickness atop 14k Mount Teide in Tenerife (intense headache/lack of energy and appetite). 😂😂😂

Some of the Sherpas run their own expeditions and they are active year round on all the other Himalayan peaks. It's never going to go away.

But despite complaints about safety lapses, this year the Nepali government issued a record number of permits, 381, as part of a bigger push to commercialize the mountain. Climbers say the permit numbers have been going up steadily each year and that this year the traffic jams were heavier than ever.

“This is not going to improve,” said Lukas Furtenbach, a guide who recently relocated his climbers to the Chinese side of Everest because of the overcrowding in Nepal and the surge of inexperienced climbers.

ADVERTISEMENT “There’s a lot of corruption in the Nepali government,” he said. “They take whatever they can get.”

Nepali officials denied any wrongdoing and said the trekking companies were the ones responsible for safety on the mountain.

Danduraj Ghimire, the director general of Nepal’s department of tourism, said in an interview on Sunday that the large number of deaths this year was not related to crowds, but because there were fewer good weather days for climbers to safely summit. He said the government was not inclined to change the number of permits.

“If you really want to limit the number of climbers,” Mr. Ghimire said, “let’s just end all expeditions on our holy mountain.”

To be sure, the race to the top is driven by the weather. May is the best time of the year to summit, but even then there are only a few days when it is clear enough and the winds are mild enough to make an attempt at the top.

ADVERTISEMENT But one of the critical problems this year, veterans say, seems to be the sheer number of people trying to reach the summit at the same time. And since there is no government traffic cop high on the mountain, the task of deciding when groups get to attempt their final ascent is left up to mountaineering companies.

BBC says that a storm aftermath created two weather windows and most opted for the second one. Nepali government officials were supposed t o manage the queue but many did not show up or went home early because they are not trained for high altitude work.

She was introduced at R42, but I didn't see this posted above. Kirstie Ennis posted a blog about her (failed) attempt to summit Mt. Everest. She also seems to blame EVERYONE else for her failure (except for the people who hug her when she cries). The whole problem with this "anyone should be able to do anything they want to" culture is when they bitch and moan because people trying not to die are forced to kowtow to them when their physical limitations become an actual PROBLEM.

Of course, it's not the fact that her leg's amputated above her knee, and she throws temper tantrums when she doesn't get her way - it's because her sherpa was mean, her fellow climbers were assholes, and she had to wear too many clothes.

I think R45 got this one right...

I just watched the documentary below about Shirya Shah-Klorfine, the Canadian/Nepalese climber who had absolutely no experience of climbing any high peaks.

She was one of those people who just insisted that she was going to do it.

One of the important bits of the documentary is a bit of the interview with her local cousin who related that Shirya called her from Base Camp and told her that the most experience Sherpa of the company she was going with refused to take her up. He told her that "You are going to die and you will kill us too."

Of course she knew best and went up.

Remember that photo a few seasons back of that long, long line of climbers ascending. Well she was one of the slowest.

Stupid, stupid people. It's one thing to be careless about your own life, but to be uncaring about others who are with you - that is something else.

This is a quote from the blog at R432:

"For years, I have heard about the loyalty and commitment of Sherpa to their climbers — to ensure the climbers safety in the Sherpa’s mountains. I have heard the stories of Sherpa never leaving their climbers to the point of injury, and death. But mine, they didn’t even want to be out here on the mountain."

And that's why I despise these people who pay for the summit experience, they don't think the Sherpas are human beings, much less their superiors in mountaineering. No, they're just a walking convenience who's there to deliver what's been paid for.

God, that amputee blogger sounds like such an entitled bitch. She prob sucked at climbing and sounds so high maintenance that the Sherpa want up for carrying her ass up and down the mountain. Shame on the Sherpa for trying not to die.

Exactly, R435.

Everyone on Twitter is giving Kirstie an exquisite rimjob. They are posting snippets of inspirational phrases from her, but ignoring all the petty whining and bitching she directed at her climbing companions and her sherpa.

She sounds absolutely insufferable, but she's being heralded as the latest "I Can Do it!" heroine. There are a LOT of actual heroines out there who do fantastic work for women, but the poster children end up being these entitled brats who think they are owed something because life has dealt them a tough hand.

I think it's admirable how she's carried on in the face of adversity; how she gave up so much to serve her country.

But Mount Everest is NOT the place for someone whose physical limitations can literally cause the death of the people around them. She's complaining about how it isn't right how climbers are being dragged up to the summit, while criticizing her sherpa for refusing to risk death to baby her on the descent. He should have just told her "no" in the first place, but she paid for her participation trophy...

For those who haven't yet read it:

Deliverance_Denial_and_the_Death_Zone_A_Study_of_Narcissism_and_Regression_in_the_May_1996_Everest_Climbing_Disaster

Explains people like Kristie

[quote]She's complaining about how it isn't right how climbers are being dragged up to the summit

She’s actually complaining about them being “drug.”

[quote]Everyone was in high spirits and great physical health as we watched people being drug past us by their Sherpa on what we call dog leashes; safety tethers connecting the harness of the Sherpa to the client. I found comfort in the thought that I wasn’t the one being drug up — I will never be the one pulled up a mountain.

As a Datalounger in good standing, it is my duty to mention that.

...and then, every once in a while, I see a post that reminds me why, after all these years, I still love to come to Datalounge!

Touché, R438. Touché.

[quote]How anyone who has a child could be so selfish as to risk making their kid an orphan just for a thrill?

Kids are orphaned every day. Some still have a remaining parent. More people make it to the top than die— it just doesn’t make good press these days.

I just read her blog and Kirstie Ennis is a major CUNT. She’s the epitome of a white soccer mom.

Just reading the summary of the 1996 disaster makes it clear how much worse the current situation is. Only one climber (Sandy Hill Pittman) was short-roped. Only three groups--one of which had promised to wait a day and didn't. No one (including Pittman) as inexperienced as a large number of climbers now going up.

Even then, a couple of bottlenecks occurred because ropes weren't preset, and that really led to the following disaster when the bad weather hit. The big mistakes were, of course, made by the two expedition guides--Hall pushing on with Hansen, who wasn't up to it, and Fischer not admitting that he was ill.

Now, people who can't manage for five minutes on Everest without being short-roped are climbing up there and are dying because they're spending too long in the Death Zone. Only one accident, no bad weather, just permits issued to people who aren't really climbers and a total breakdown of negotiations among tour groups so that everyone slogs up there at the same time.

Think what would happen if 1996 weather happened again. It wouldn't be just eight people--it would be dozens. Most of these people don't have the skills to even have a chance in one of those storms.

Again, Sandy Hill Pittman, one of the weakest of the climbers in 1996 was more qualified than most of the people now going up. Her life was saved because she didn't go drugged up to the gills, so when she was given a shot, it actually did something for her. Krakauer, who felt guilty about being useless and unable to help with the rescues, was able to get himself down and back to camp even with hypoxia (his oxygen tanks ran out).

There hasn't been a real disaster yet. The deaths were seeing this year are everything going as plan--no storm, no avalanche--with a couple of delays. Given what Everest is, it's insane not to have more give in the system. It's dangerous up there. Period.

R442, kudos for your post. You nailed the situation. I fear that only a disaster of that magnitude (and it WILL happen) will result in any change.

R440

You are an Asshole. Have you ever had a parent, spouse or partner die on you? You have no fucking clue.

No doubt that unqualified people are on the mountain, but there's no way to quantify how many are unprepared and how bad it is compared to 1996 in this moment.

I live in Denver and at 10,200 (Leadville) feet I get altitude sickness, can’t even image at almost 30,000 feet with bitter cold and heavy exertion what it must feel like

R445, Of course there is. All you have to do is look at how many and which mountains they've already summitted and how. Add in how and why people died.

Krakauer, who was experienced at lower elevations, made good time getting up Everest--he had to wait for slower climbers on the way up. He was able to fix ropes and he was able to get through one part without ropes. Very few of those climbing Everest in tour groups have those kind of skills.

And Krakauer thinks he shouldn't have been up there, though he was fit and experienced enough to make it back to Camp 4 on his own with hypoxia.

Very different from people who are dying while waiting with supplemental oxygen.

....

Apparently it’s like Grand Central Station up there. And heavily littered with trash too. Assholes toss aside empty oxygen canisters and whatever else they don’t want to carry. Same with the oceans being covered with plastic junk that’s choking the wildlife. I hate people.

You know, I'm really not embarrassed to be all over this thread, clucking at the arrogant fuckers who are dying on Everest, because they thought that paying out a shit-ton of money would protect them from all harm.

You forgot you can't pay off Mother Nature. She doesn't care how much you paid, she gave you a cellular metabolism that requires some fucking oxygen, and if you forget that, you deserve what's coming to you.

R447 - yes, Krakauer describes breaking a trail through the fresh snow descending to Camp IV and very nearly getting lost. He didn't because he had 'memorized the matrix' on his way up, so he knew which landmarks to look out for. That whole expedition only seemed to have a few Sherpas climbing with them.

Taking a quick nap.

Thanks for the link to that documentary about the Canadian Nepali woman r433. I had read her blog when she started, it was linked on Alan Arnette's website and yes, rea sonably fit but no mountaineering experience, not to mention high altitude experience. One thing they mentioned, she didn't get the headaches that most people get. The footage shows a long queue of climbers making the final push that year too. That one guy, Don Brice (sp?) who is like the Big Kahuna on the mountain actually cancelled his clients that year. He said it was too dangerous with so many people shuffling in line for hours.

One of the youtube commenters proposed that the Nepali government should limit Everest permits to climbers who could prove that they summitted a 7000 ft Nepali peak the previous year. In effect, they'd have to make two trips to Nepal and pay for two expeditions. That might limit the dentist bros.

I think the media should just constantly publish photos of the queue. Maybe it won't seem so special anymore.

r453 Russell Brice. No-nonsense Kiwi.

He did it on the advice of his Sherpa, who-IIRC, had other issues than just the bottleneck.

[quote]Hope someone makes a doc about this year.

I want a cable miniseries.

R455 YES Would love a Chernobyesque mini-series on the dentists of Everest

[quote]Again, Sandy Hill Pittman, one of the weakest of the climbers in 1996 was more qualified than most of the people now going up. Her life was saved because she didn't go drugged up to the gills, so when she was given a shot, it actually did something for her.

r442, that's really interesting.

r457 she was actually more qualified than some of her contemporary climbers. Krakauer has a history of "embellishing" events to fit narrative arcs.

Where are the accounts and pictures of the people who descended. I wonder what their condition looks like when they are all done with it. Worth it?

Here they are, r459. Whether it’s worth it or not is entirely up to you.

Reinhold Messner (when asked) on the controversy surrounding the Everest descriptions given by Jon Krakauer and Anatoli Boukreev

Worth watching.

I so want to block the person who keeps saying dentist. S/he has some decent things to say but damn!

Is it too much to type climbers or people?

If you must, use the word, please show that they are actually a gang of dentists who are going up the mountain. Moreover, stop assuming it cost so much money to climb Everest. $11K may seem like a lot to you, but it is on par with exotic vacations.

docu about the first ascent with Hillary and Tenzing

^^^ Sorry. Here's the link for R461.

Messner is an idiot, he left his brother behind on a 1970 expedition to Nanga Parbat.

R458, in Beck Whether's book he describes Sandy's climbing resume and she'd climbed a few high mountains including an 8000. Beck had been up Denali but was forced down by weather. He'd also summitted Aconcagua in Patagonia and the highest one in Antarctica, which Krakauer had also climbed. Both Pitman and Beck were aiming for the Seven Summits, as was Yasuko (Everest was her final one). Charlotte Fox, Tim Madsen, and Lene G were also experienced climbers.

Krakauer was a highly skilled rock climber who'd been climbing for decades. Some think he was a basic journo but he only wrote climbing articles and had done for years.

So, imo, the 96 teams were way more skilled than the teams on Everest last week. If the storm hadn't hit, all would have got back safely as they were at Camp iv but couldn't find it because of the blizzard.

I agree with the poster who said that if a blizzard had hit the hundreds climbing last week, it would have wiped out scores of them. They would all have gone toppling off that summit ridge.

R462, 11k is the price of the climbing permit. It costs between 40-70k to join an expedition.

Don't know if vetting still works above 8 thousand meters, R399. Rob Hall and Scott Fisher were experienced climbers and yet they totally disregarded turn-around and/or cut-off times.

The only guide who didn't disregard save turn around time was Boukreev. Neal Beidleman stayed with clients on the summit for more than 1 1/2 hours. Hall was still pushing his client Doug Hansen onto the summit after 4pm.

It seems people just can't be trusted to do the right thing up there. The days and hours of low oxygen air affects the brain.

That psych paper about narcissism and Mt. Everest points out that with the commercial expeditions, the whole organizational structure changed. Hall and Fischer were the experts and supposed to make the right decisions for their teams, but, at the same time, unlike the non-commercial earlier expeditions they were concerned about making money and staying in business. Part of Hall's poor judgment may have been the result of his not having had a great year previously--he wanted/needed his customers (not team) to summit. Similar deal with Fischer who was an experienced climber, but just getting started as a business owner--part of the reason Pittman was there is that she was generating tons of publicity--it was Fischer's choice to make sure he'd get her up come hell or high water.

Both men didn't really take into consideration how much more ill-equipped their customers were compared to the non-commercial, collaborative teams to deal with any unexpected issues. Even if Everest isn't a big technical climb; the weather and elevation always make it a tightrope walk.

There have been other late summits besides Hansen and Hall. Anyone remember the guy who didn't get there 'til around 4 in the afternoon. Took a picture of himself smiling at the summit and then, like most of them, died descending around the Hillary steps. It's such an eerie picture that way. People told him to turn back, that it was late, but he just had to get there.

Oh well, I think the new ultra climbing is free soloing anyway.

Thank you r454, I was too tired to check the name. So what's the story on his Sherpa? Because that decision took balls, no refunds.

Not Everest but still an interesting documentary for those who enjoy watching crazy expeditions from the warmth and comfort of their couch.

It's mostly in French so put subtitles on.

R462, that’s just for the permit. It would be way more after you pay the guide company to get you up there. In 1996, Rob Hall’s company was charging 65K, I think,

I think Krakauer acknowledged the skills of some of the climbers in 1996. I believe his main point was that people were taking the climb for granted, and made terrible decisions because of that. Hall being the biggest example.

Let's start casting the 2021 HBO miniseries "2019 Everest Disasters".

Reuters

R465 - No, he didn't.

See link below.

@AP_Images

#OTD in 1953, Mount Everest was conquered as Edmund Hillary of New Zealand and Tensing Norgay of Nepal became the first climbers to reach the summit.

For those who are interested in knowing more about the 1996 Mt. Everest disaster, here are videos that came up in a youtube search for " Mt. Everest David Breashears." He was filming the IMAX movie and he and his crew had to help rescue other climbers.

Here is an interactive 3D map of Mt. Everest. You scroll down and click on it to activate.

Seven Surprising Facts About the Matterhorn...

Scroll down to see the 2015 night climb where the mountain climbers carried red flares.

Video of the Matterhorn and the red flares.

The Matterhorn illuminates 3 times each night.

Zermott looks so beautiful w/ the Matterhorn in the distance.

R442. The Sherpas thought that Sandy Hill having sex on the mountain was very disrespectful to the mountain goddess and may have set the disaster in motion. I can't remember --- who was the guy who had sex w/ Sandy?

About a dozen die on the Matterhorn each year...

Go make a Matterhorn thread, Rainman.

r484 that was more of Krakauer's bullshit. There are scores of people hooking up on the mountain. Singling her out for that was hypocritical and borderline misogynist. He used it as part of the villain role he'd written for her.

Also, the whole 'pure native' routine that all the woke SM shouters like to push is largely bullshit. There definitely are Nepalese and other Buddhists who have a sacred view of the mountain, but it's nowhere near the majority.

R462 I just listened to a bit of an interview w/ Mike Tobin (Fox News, sorry. ugh).

Tobin is a mountain climber, however, he hasn't climbed Mt. Everest. He said that the cost to climb it runs about $100,000 (including not only what you pay the guide company but for gear, airfare, oxygen, etc).

Tobin starts to talk at 2:45 . “There’s a Real Heartlessness That is Part of Mount Everest”

He says that it's only on Mt. Everest that people walk over dead bodies. He said that the high cost of the trip makes people act the way they do. They are determined to reach their goal because they have paid so much for the trip.

R486 Shut up, asshole.

I don't think Pittman is portrayed as a villain in Krakauer's book--more like an indulged socialite--but Boukreev comes in for more heat than she does. But no one's ever denied that Pittman *was* short-roped and did struggle along with several other people. She wasn't a strong climber and Krakauer is judgmental that way--but he puts himself in the category of people who didn't belong on that mountain.

And we're back to 1996. Now, the situation is much worse--again, we're getting a high death toll sans avalanches and storms. Only one fall.

The rest is overcrowding and not being physically up for the challenge. In other words, not acts of God, but human error over and over and over.

Only one more and this year will tie 1996.

A bunch of doctors and other medical types have died on Everest--goes with the medical god complex.

And, yes, the number of Everest attempts by Indians has been soaring--they also, after Nepal (111) hold the record for most deaths on Everest (19). The numbers of attempted ascents has been soaring since around 2012. This is a large, not always well-prepared group.

[quote]They should make all the dentists who pay to summit acclimate by going up to the camps to pick up garbage and shit. You don't get to summit unless you bring back at least ___ kilos of garbage!!

rich dentist on garbage detail

From Alan's blog on deaths this season everywhere

Peak Promotion, Kangchenjunga, May 15,:Indian Biplab Baidya, 48, altitude sickness Peak Promotion, Kangchenjunga, May 15: Indian Kuntal Karar, 46, altitude sickness Peak Promotion, Kangchenjunga, May 15: Chilean Rodrigo Vivanco missing, presumed dead

Looks like "Peak Promotion" is an outfitter one should avoid, given their high death rate....

Deaths on Everest--time, cause, age, outfitter, nationality. Basically, the Americans are too old and the Indians die of exposure. The Sherpas get killed by avalanches, icefalls, etc--i.e. doing all the stuff to make it safer for everyone else, though there was a Sherpa who died of HAPE in 2014 at the Everest Base Camp.

Oops, the link:

@NBCNightlyNews

The Nepalese government is now considering imposing new regulations, heath checks, and qualification standards for climbers who want to summit Mount Everest after the deadliest climbing season in years.

^^Richard Engel can climb me all year long. No permit required.

All your good health and qualifications won't help you if you stand in line for hours, freezing and oxygen depleted.

R498, Well they will--but it's a bit touch-and-go as to who can survive those conditions. Being over 45/50 is clearly a negative, but two of the Indians who died of exposure this year were under 30.

I'd be toast up there. I felt lightheaded on top of Mt. Haleakala (10,000 feet).

Considering the Sherpas do all the real work and actually install not just ropes, but LADDERS on the mountain, I think a more appropriate name for any of the Everest Outfitters would be Milli Vanilli Ventures.

Me too, r499–it took about 10 minutes to get acclimated, but I was surprised I felt so lightheaded. I can’t imagine what Everest is like.

The Nepalese might make it a rule that Everest summiters have to have climbed another 8000 peak, most of which are in Nepal. They'll make more money that way!

18 deaths in all on Himalayan 8000s this month.

By the way, it was 66 years ago today that Tenzing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary reached the summit for the first confirmed time in human history, May 29, 1953.

Tenzing Norgay never really got along with Hillary unfortunately. He always wished he had reached the summit with the Swizz, who he climbed with the previous year and who he said treated him a lot nicer.

"He says that it's only on Mt. Everest that people walk over dead bodies. "

Like I said on the other thread, the people paying to summit Everest these days are the sort of people who WILL LITERALLY WALK OVER A HEAP OF DEAD BODIES to get what they want. Even on vacation.

THEY’RE DEAD.

R498

I'm not the poster you are replying to, but I do think the Nepalese government should move forward with considering new regulation. It will definitely help with the long lines.

Since, not everyone will past the new regulations, health checks, and qualification standards for climbers, and if they do pass, it will stagger the process of climbing.

In the end, that means shorter lines.

So there have been 20 deaths this season on Everest and surrounding 8000 metre peaks. Pretty dire.

Well in the Datalounge Everest Death Pool, I predict 14 total deaths for Everest this season.

I think language like 'the death zone' glamorise it.

R510, So true. Reminds me of those who go to the over-hyped Burning Man and spend so much $$$ to endure dust storms, dust covering everything and in all orifices, and the lack of proper sanitation. How many actually appreciate the art? Pit toilets? Ugh.

[quote] the sort of people who WILL LITERALLY WALK OVER A HEAP OF DEAD BODIES to get what they want. Even on vacation.

Well it's not like the dead are considerate enough to move out of the way

I've mentioned this movie before on the Everest threads but if you want to watch an intense movie about the competition to be the first team to climb the sheer north face of Eiger in 1936, rent North Face (2008). Absolutely no dentists.

The Eiger disaster was indeed very intense and yes, people have been drawn to mountains since forever.

Black, mummified Everest corpse hand at the link!

How many people died on the Eiger?

The Nepalese know what they're doing. They'll designate other high Nepalese peaks as rehearsal mountains for Everest (like Cho Oyu, Ama Dablam) and get the racket going there as well. More money for them and the Sherpas.

So, did Mandy Moore, star of Disney's Rapunzel, make it? Of course she did, or the internet would be in mourning.

excuse me, star of Television's Tangled, and Emmy nominee.

Video showing Disney lines at the summit

I thought Mandy Moore was just at Base Camp. Is she actually trying to summit? That would make far more headlines if the case, I would think.

To the person upthread asking about who Sandy Hill was climbing, it was Scott Koch IIRC.

The mere mention of Mandy Moore is killing this thread. No she is not going for the top. The Everest 2019 season is over. There. Calling it.

K2 which is a much more difficult and lethal cl imb apparently has guided tours but you must have previously summitted two 8000+ meter mountains, one of which must be Everest.

That USA Today link sh ows a couple videos of the queues and it's just staggering. People would go ballistic if they had to wait like this at the DMV.

I think the solution is to lop off enough meterage from the top so that it isn't the tallest anymore.

How many corpses are currently on Everest and how many do you see on the way to the summit? I also wonder what happens to the bodies after someone dies? Do they just leave you there or will the sherpas from each team bury them with stones or snow or move the bodies behind rocks or something? What happens to people who die in their tent? Do they just leave them there or do they throw them off a cliff or bury them? Are the bodies of Hall, Fisher, Nasusko (?) still where they died or did they move and bury them? They most be really "famous" and I wonder if these freaks try to get selfies with them.

[quote]They most be really "famous" and I wonder if these freaks try to get selfies with them.

Get a fucking life.

Oh dear R525! Use Google and get a life? This is probably the lamest standard reply in history. If you don't like what people write, just hit the fucking ignore button or at least come up with something original when you have to reply and insult someone.

Good questions r524–Yasuko was brought down from the mountain through an exposition funded by her husband to retrieve her body. Fisher and Hall are still there. I think they’re both covered with rocks.

R524 It seems like they usually just the leave the bodies where they are and sometimes don't cover them. When that inexperienced mountaineer Canadian woman died up there, a friend of hers went back the following year and cover her body with Canadian flag and stones. All the pictures I've seen the Green Boots guy show the body uncovered. It was a few years back that it was reported Green Boots was moved somewhere else.

the link to the story about green boots' wife and brother getting him home is upthread and a good read

Oh, Green Boots is home and in a proper grave? That makes me happy somehow. I always felt bad for the guy and his family. He was so exposed. Also great to know Yasuko is home and no longer on that mountain. It's just so horrible that they will be there forever....exposed. Not something I wanted for myself or a loved one.

The thing with Everest is that the south col route isn't technically challenging. That's one of the reasons so many people sign up for expeditions. What kills people is the lack of oxygen because it's so high.

Ama Dablam, K2, Annapurna, Kanchenjunga, Nanga Parbat are all lower and are usually climbed without oxygen, but they require expertise mountaineering skills, something you acquire only after years and decades of climbing.

Anatoli personally expressed his sorrow to Yasuko Namba's husband that he couldn't save her.

I think he had a death wish after the 96 ordeal, that's why he climbed Annapurna in winter.

Anatoli is such an enigma to me, r532. I think he didn’t want to coddle people on Everest—he knew what it took, and it’s no place for babies. But he made some critical mistakes that he spent the rest of his (short) life trying to explain and make amends for.

I don’t care if you think it’s standard or lame. Most of the answers you seek have already been posted many times in both current threads as well as older threads and are searchable as well. Most of the people who know the answers have read books, or searched online. All the stuff I assume you are capable of.

You struck a nerve with me because you called these climbers freaks (nice generalization) and you want to know if they take selfies with dead bodies? Fuck off.

Anatoli just had the bad luck to be stuck with an expedition leader who was unfit to climb and greedy for clients. Even Beidelman ignored all safety rules and stayed with clients on the summit for 1 1/2 hours. IIRC Anatoli gave Beidelman his oxygen bottle, that he carried with him 'just in case'.

Without that extra oxygen Beidelman probably wouldn't have been able to get down to south col.

R518, Mandy Moore only went to Base Camp so of course she is okay.

Beck W had already climbed Cho Oyu so it must be fairly easy. I think it is often used as rehearsal mountain for Everest and of course the Nepalese gov make money out of that as well.

I just read this on Wiki

Boukreev had dreamt in detail of dying in an avalanche nine months before his death. The only thing missing was the name of the mountain. When Boukreev's companion tried to convince him to take a different path in life to avoid a fate that Boukreev was convinced of, he responded, "Mountains are my life...my work. It is too late for me to take up another road."

[Would you have kept climbing after that dream?]

No, R538. Just last year I passed up a trip I would have liked to take, because of some eerie similarities to some recurring dreams I've had for years. Yes, it was silly of me, but it's my life and I'll make my decisions on whatever grounds I please.

However, my livelihood didn't depend on my going, and I might have if it did.

R538, he probably had a lot of dreams about avalanches and blizzards and corpses. You dream about what you see a lot. He at least lived to be 40 before he died.

Real climbing--an attempt on Annapurna. Since the film was made, two of the climbers in it have died. The ascent starts around 7:30.

r525 ADR, but if s/he did do any reading, it would be quickly apparent that it wasn't a stupid comment & question considering what's gone on on Everest in particular and the Himalaya in general.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]r450 You forgot you can't pay off Mother Nature.

[quote]R452 Taking a quick nap.

Probably homeless.

[quote]This CA woman only took 2 weeks to summit Mt. Everest instead of the normal 2 months.

What's the rush?

I'm with that CA woman. No need to poke around on the mountain. She came to climb not to inch up a mountain.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Mountain climbers

R548, Didn't link correctly so apologies but I'll have to link Faux News instead. Important as it explains how she did it.

3rd time's the charm. Try this link.

Why can't Daily Mail get their links right?!

R552, Because the Daily Fail wants you to read and listen to all of their advertising before you get to the desired story? That's why I resorted to posting Faux News which is much more subtle re their sponsor $$$$.

The guy who first summited the Eiger is the author of Seven Years in Tibet, Austrian mountaineer Heinrich Harrer.

Ueli Steck holds the speed record of climbing the infamous Eiger North Face.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Not Mt. Everest, but more mountain climbers have been killed in an avalanche in the Himalayas.

R530, his wife and brother had to get him because they couldn't claim any insurance money without a body. no judging. it cost them more than green boots had paid for the company (before they learned that they would get financial help from the government). climbing with frozen and therefore vrry heavy bodies seems to be difficult as fuck. and sometimes the bodies are just at a spot where they can't be lowered further down safely.

Not so sure about the "guilt-ridden death wish" meme out there about Boukreev going up Annapurna in winter. Krakauer started that one, as painting Boukreev as guilt-ridden furthered the canard he was disseminating that made the implication that Boukreev had some dark role in the 1996 Everest disaster. But the proximate cause of the 1996 deaths were the group leaders disregarding safety turnarounds and permitting clients to linger ridiculous amounts of time up on the summit while doing do themselves. Seems more likely that though reckless, Boukreev's winter Annapurna ascent had to do with wishing to notch up records before he got much older. He was poor and lacking options in a way Westerners often don't grasp. His partner on the fatal Annpurna climb, Simone Moro, did not sign on for a guilt-expiation penance trip. He has written/spoken quite a bit about his experiences with Boukreev post-1996, and his account doesn't fit the "guilty" mythology.

A lot of people don't know that immediately after the 1996 disaster, there was a Nepalese investigation up there, and statements were taken on the spot from survivors and witnesses. Not sure if it was the military, or some police entity up there. It would be fascinating to have access to the complete material, subject to a a reputable, high-quality translation. Certainly many of the accounts we do have after the disaster, were given to involved parties such as Krakauer, and/or changed . . . . a lot . . . . as time passed.

R557 When did they get green boots? I missed the article here and thought he had been up there for decades. His outfit looked very 80s or early 90s.

I posted this on the Everest should be shut down thread R559. In a nutshell, I think that article is about different climbers from India who were part of a much more recent expedition and Green Boots is still up there somewhere.

I don't think that article about the body being retrieved is referring to Green Boots if I'm thinking of the same one: posted above and quite long and interesting piece about the group of West Bengalese climbers, four of whom died and two of whom their families raised the money for a retrieval mission. The brother of one went to Nepal to escort the body back? If it's that article, then Green Boots is still on Everest as according to Wikipedia, re Tsewang Paljor the most likely identity:

In May 2014, Green Boots was reported missing,[3] presumably removed or buried.[4] In 2017, as a greater number of climbers returned, according to 2-stage hearsay he was noticed again at the same altitude and may have simply been covered with a few stones.

It goes on to say:

Over time, the corpse became known both as a landmark on the north route and for its association with the death of David Sharp.[7] However, in May 2014, Green Boots' body was reported to be missing from view, presumably removed or buried.[4] A body was discovered hanging alongside a tent and other debris on the side of a cliff-face in 2017, which some have speculated to be the transported body of "Green Boots".

Anyway, whoever it is and wherever he is now I'm glad he is no longer on view to be photographed or used as a route marker. If I died up on Everest I wouldn't care if I was left there, but I would prefer to be out of sight.

i thought it wad green boots. my apologies if i was mistaken.

from a different article:

As of 2014, Green Boots was finally dropped to a lower location over the side of the mountain, where he joined the bodies of other fallen climbers that have been cleared off of the main route.

No worries R561 and thanks R562. It seems like it is sometimes difficult to even know who moves some of these bodies and when/where. I think I read somewhere that it was believed a Chinese climbing team moved GB but no-one seemed to know for sure who had done it - one year he was there in the cave, the next year he was gone. I posted my first response on this topic on the wrong thread I think - I thought that the article was on the 'should be shut down' thread, not this one. But yeah, that (very interesting) NYT article is about a much more recent death.

A Mount Everest record-holder says summit 'traffic jams' aren’t the problem — it’s the trek down that kills people

I think assholes who pull these stunts oftentimes have something very dark to hide in their backgrounds. Probably all pedophiles and human traffickers. Overcompensating with phony achievement, not caring about polluting a sacred mountain and destroying mother nature.

Wouldn't the wait at the top (too long at altitude) be the culprit in the descent, though?

[[[Wouldn't the wait at the top (too long at altitude) be the culprit in the descent, though?]]]

Exactly. The comment was idiotic.

I think he meant that whether or not there was a wait, many would die because they use up all their strength and oxygen to get to the top -- by "summit fever."

Well, it's true that even before this new era of traffic jams and hours-long waits, it was conventional wisdom among Everest hands that it's the descent that will kill ya. But. Your chances of running out of oxygen and/or strength multiply exponentially the longer you are in the DZ. And that prolonged DZ exposure is what is killing 11 people in a single season devoid of storms or earthquakes. Prolonged waits due to bottlenecks were a big factor in 1996, and those bottlenecks were due to just a couple of teams. What's going on now is grotesque.

Yeah I don't agree with the argument that the crowds going up are not the problem. As you said the longer in the Death Zone the weaker a person becomes and turning around before getting to the fatal amount of Death Zone time, is paramount. Summit fever is a real thing. There's that great push to get to the top, usung every resourse. Hanging around, waiting, is not really restful---for some the hourglass will begin to run out of sand especially if they can't replace their low oxygen with another bottle. They may be dying on the summit and not even know it. But...if that is the way they want to go...

The garbage/human waste left behind is shameful. I am glad that is becoming more well-known.

Oh and forgot to add that because the earthquake in 2016 substantially changed the landscape of the Hillary Step, it is actually easier and faster to get past that point now. Apparently instead of a rock climb now you walk up a gentle snow slope. The Hillary Step featured as a dangerous bottleneck in 1996. So they are not even contending with that this year.

On the "new" Hillary Step:

I never thought that Krakauer "blamed" Boukreev or even attacked him in "Into Thin Air" which some people on this thread seem to be implying.

Everyone acknowledges that Anatoli saved those people from The Huddle.

There were many contributing factors to the 1996 disaster. I never felt that any particular blame was placed on Boukreev or anyone else.

But the fact that now all guides on Everest must use oxygen seems to indicate that if all guides were required to use oxygen in 1996, there might have been a different result. That is one factor that TPTB could change and did. So far they have been unwilling to restrict Everest to more prepared climbers or to restrict the number of climbers on any given day which were other factors in the 1996 disaster.

Looks like the final death toll for the Himalyas in May 2019 is 30 people.

Why doesn't Everest have FastPass like Disneyland?

I read Krakauer's book some 2 years ago. I din't think it was a great read actually. Although he did put some of the blame on Anatoli, he also, rightfully so IMHO, blame a great deal of the tragedy on the leaders, Rob Hall and Scott Fisher.

Some of Hall's own clients didn't speak highly of him, esp the people who turned around because they knew they were running out of time and continuing would have been a great risk. It's bad to talk about dead people, but I think it's fair to say that Rob Hall was directly responsible for the death of Doug Hanson and Andy Harris. Hall's sirdar Ang Dorje and other Sherpas actually made their way up the mountain to rescue Hall who was below the Hillary Step, the next day, while the wind was still blowing hard, risking their lives. Boukreev also went up to Fisher the next day but only found him only dead somewhere below the balcony.

Doctor 77 discusses why so many die on Everest. At the bottom of the linked article is a short video explaining how to go to the bathroom on Everest.

Looks like four Brits are dead on this Indian 7600m mountain.

R577 excellent link, thank you. And the video on pooping was super interesting....I don’t buy that that the majority of climbers are responsible enough to carry their waste with them the whole way down, but I’m sure those two dudes do. I’ve never done anything like Everest, but I’ve done some other weird trips, and my experience is that you don’t take a crap for a long time when you’re in a stressful environment. I’ve always wondered if the frequency of pooping when you’re on Everest is less?

One thing that’s pretty amazing.....all the years we’ve done these threads, have we ever had a single poster who has actually attempted Everest? I don’t recall that ever.

The stories of this 2019 season are yet to come.

Those drawing parallels to 1996 are correct:

I know people who've hiked to Everest Base Camp like Mandy Moore is being mocked for doing now. A lot of people trek the more spectacular parts of the Himalayas, and Everest Base Camp is a common stop on the route, and usually marks the highest elevation that normal sane extremely fit people are willing to climb to. I would consider doing it myself if I were young and fit and had the time and money, I'd love to take a nice close look at Everest and not climb it.

The only real Himalayan-peak-conquering genuine mountaineer I ever met has spent the last few decades on the slopes of Annapurna, and that's one reason I've never even thought about climbing Everest or any other "Death Zone" peak myself.

I know one person who has trekked to Everest Base Camp. Yes, he is a dentist.

On thing I took away from Krakauer's book was that the nature of the leader& client relationship was so different from climbs where the group was colleagues.

Amazing, when you think of it, that Scott Fisher was tired and sick on summit day. He was lagging way behind his own clients. And yet even his own guides, including Boukreev who everyone knows was the strongest climber on the mountain , who passed him on their way down, did not try to get him to turn around and go down with them. A result of seeing Fisher, not as a climber who might be in trouble, but rather as the leader, and therefore surely(?) someone who knew what he was doing.

Sleeping Beauty (Francys Arsentiev) was moved out of view of climbers. Her husband died trying to rescue her. Both climbed without oxygen. She was the body wearing the purple and black jacket, lying on her back.

Woodall initiated and led an expedition in 2007, "The Tao of Everest", with the purpose of returning to the mountain to bury the bodies of Francys Arsentiev and an unidentified climber ("Green Boots"), both of whom were plainly visible from the nearby climbing route. Francys Arsentiev's body was visible to climbers for nine years, from her death, May 24, 1998, to May 23, 2007. On May 23, 2007, Woodall was able to locate Arsentiev's body, and after a brief ritual, dropped her to a lower location on the face, removing the body from view.[3][5]

For his 1996 ascent, Göran Kropp left Stockholm on October 16, 1995, on a specially-designed bicycle with 108 kilograms (238 lb) of gear and food. He traveled 13,000 kilometers (8,000 mi) on the bicycle and arrived at Everest Base Camp in April 1996.

Following a meeting of all of the Everest expeditions on the mountain at the time, it was agreed that Kropp would attempt to summit first. On May 3, Kropp climbed through thigh-deep snow and reached Everest's South Summit, a point 100 meters (328 ft) from the summit. However, he decided to turn around because it was too late in the day and if he continued, he would be descending in the dark.

While Kropp recovered from the ordeal at base camp, the 1996 Everest Disaster unfolded. He helped bring medicine up the mountain. Three weeks later, on May 23, he again tackled the mountain, this time successfully summitting without extra oxygen support. He then cycled part of the way back home.

I think Kropp was the one who took a picture of Rob Hall's half snow covered body and posted it in his book, he published some time later. He himself died in Sept 2002, trying to scale up Frenchman Coulee near Vantage, Washington.

Kropp was a real adventurer. I bet he saw some amazing things on his trips.

[[[Amazing, when you think of it, that Scott Fisher was tired and sick on summit day. He was lagging way behind his own clients. And yet even his own guides, including Boukreev who everyone knows was the strongest climber on the mountain , who passed him on their way down, did not try to get him to turn around and go down with them.]]]

Fischer hid from everybody how sick he really was. Trying to save face, too insecure not to go up and sit around socializing up there. Plus, it was a plan that he was going to go up at the end of the line of clients, supposedly to be the "sweep" and make the slowpokes turn back once it was too late to summit and get back down safely.

Beck said in his book that Scott had some untreated chronic condition that made him have sweats and shaking fits several times a day. He was promiscuous like many climbers, so could this have been the early stages of AIDS? Or Hep C?

There were only 5 deaths on Everest in 2018, but if those 8 climbers are dead, this is the worst season ever for the Himalayan peaks.

Wow, that Sleeping Beauty story speaks volumes.

I’ve only counted 13 dead. Is that incorrect?

That Cathy O'Dowd woman from R589s post is in one of the 1996 docos on you tube. She is .... something else. When talking about the people who died she has this weird and very disconcerting half-smile on her face. Strange lady. There were quite a few controversies with her 1996 team: the leader (Ian Woodall) was said to be a total asshole and fell out with many of the other members and most of them quit the expedition. O'Dowd broke off with her climber boyfriend, who was part of the team, and took up with Ian. IIRC there were also rumours of financial shenanigans. To Woodall's credit he was the one who returned on the later expedition to move Arsentiev's body from view (mentioned above either here or on the other Everest thread).

His wikipedia entry outlines his actions in 1996 (according to Krakauer). If true, in Datalounge-speak he sounds like quite the cunt.

Arsentiev's story is not that dissimilar to David Sharp's. Both did irresponsible things that got them into trouble and both couldn't get up anymore and walk. That basically sealed their fate.

That said oDowd did come across as creepy.

The reason Lincoln Hall was rescued was because he was able to walk. He was stranded over night high on the north side and regained consciousness at some time. Climbers saw him half undressed and hallucinating but physically fit enough to get up and walk by himself.

Ian Woodhall refused to lend his radio to Adventure Consultants so they could communicate with Rob Hall from Camp 4, when he was stuck under the Hillary Step. He and Cathy also took all 3 Sherpas to the summit and then quickly descended with them, leaving photographer and team mate Bruce Herrod to plod on alone. Bruce summited but died on the ropes descending. A Sherpa could have cut him loose but Woodhall had taken them all.

Bruce's body was found hanging gruesomely from the ropes exactly a year later by Imax King David Breashears (or similar spelling). Woodhall also pretended to be South African when he was actually British.

Alan Arnette's summary for 2019: estimated 885 summits, 11 deaths.

Majority of the deaths were climbers using "low-cost" operators and were "altitude -related". Only one "fall" death.

I don't want to defend ODowd and Ian W, but Bruce Harrod climbed on and ignored safe turn around times. He was on the summit calling his girlfriend after 4pm and I am sure he as a grown man knew better than not to do that.

R595, probably, but why did Cathy and Ian take all three Sherpas and leave him with none? Woodall was the exhibition leader and passed him around 2pm on the way down but still didn't turn him around.

So you think it's OK for Sherpas to die with an unreasonable client, just so he can still summit at 5pm?

Here is the story of Bruce Herrod, told by his girlfriend who went to Everest base camp in 99 to meet up with Pete Athans who cut loose Herrod's body and retrieved his camera from his backpack.

Yeah, the South Africans were strange--really callous. Yes, it was Herrod's choice and he was a big boy, but it also has never sounded like they did anything to try and change his mind when they ran into him--and it actually was Woodhull's responsibility, as a team leader, to tell him.

That's speculating R599, nobody knows what Woodall did or did not say to Herrod when they met him on their way down. But what do you do to someone who still want's to continue, should they have handcuffed him and dragged him down with them.

But it's just with so many people, they lose all sense of rational thinking trying to get to the top.