The Last Days of JFK, Jr., Now ABC

Clint Hill was in love with Jackie. She knew it and used him.

Read his book and it's all right there.

I’m currently taking my brother to the airport, but I have it recording and can’t wait to watch once I get home!

Thanks Della.

It's pretty good.

It moves fast, which is noteworthy given that it's two hours, excluding commercial breaks.

I find it hard to believe that we’re coming up on the 20th anniversary of his death.

Ann Coulter!

Della, thank you so much. I completely forgot to set my DVR. At least I will get to see the last hour and a half.

You're Welcome, r3 and r7 and everybody.

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that they're still dragging his corpse around for ratings. After all, I'm watching.

I was like 12 or 13 when he died. I remember it all and my mom and family friend taking me and my sisters to where he lived to pay our respects and leave flowers outside his place. We waited on a line for HOURS to get to the front. I remember magazines interviewing my mom and all.

I have been so obsessed with him since. He was stunning, charming and charismatic. All very natural. Nothing ever forced and he was not what he thought people wanted. He was himself.

I truly believe he would HATE what nyc has become and all this gentrification.

I have a pair of his splooge stained boxer shorts from Andover. They are safe in a wooden cigar box treasure chest I created over 40 years ago.

Carolyn Bessette coming up.

While not the most physically beautiful woman, still, she is the best dressed woman I've ever seen, either in person or in pix.

I'm convinced Amal Clooney consciously tries to copy her, which is a GOOD thing, but she lacks the one thing that Bessette had: restraint.

She has the same physical dimensions as Bessette had, but Clooney's choices are always just a bit too much. She rarely gets it just right.

Amal has a tranny face.

Can't belived it's been 20 years. There really isn't anything new so far, but I'm still watching.

Carolyn's style: classic monochromatic style, with classic tones; she was not one for 'prints' or 'frills.'

Fake, spoiled, rich coke-head bitch.

Sophomoric pap.

John John would despise current NYC. Hate what it’s become. He loved NYC so much but seeing this would break his heart.

AJ Benza and Ann Coulter without the benefit iof flattering lighting!!!!

My eyes.....

Carolyn didn't love him. She was in love with some other guy - who liked coke. I don't know why she married John Jr. He could have had any woman in the world and he married a woman who didn't love him. I think he was starting to figure that out. And no I'm not watching.

^^ Other guy: Michael Bergen (who sold her out in his book after her death); and Carolyn = unrequited Mommy-approval complex.

He and Daryl Hannah seemed like the perfect couple. Both on the spectrum.

Didn’t his mom love Carolyn? That’s part of why he wanted her so bad. He did love her though. She stuck with him cause she didn’t wanna be that evil bitch that breaks his heart. America loved him. He was like everyone’s son or friend. Everyone watched him grow up etc.

She was with Michael Bergin. A male supermodel and starred on Baywatch.

^^ No, Jackie did not love Carolyn. He'd waited until after Jackie's death to propose to Carolyn: Carolyn threw this fact into his face at every opportunity.

I think he was still with Darryl Hannah when his mother died. He was such a gorgeous man.

He was beautiful

Yes r24, Carolyn didn’t come into the picture until after Jackie’s death.

His final words: "Wait...which one's the altimeter, again?"

He would have been one of our greatest presidents.

Basically Obama replaced him on the presidential timeline.

I realize Daryl Hannah is no longer in her prime but how do you go from JFK Jr. to Neil Young?

His mother didn't want him to be either an actor or a pilot. Defiance took the wrong road.

His mother feared he would die flying a plane cause so many of the Kennedy men had died on planes.

My female friend saw him at some play with a few male friends no women. She said they all pinged to high heaven. He was also proud of his entire body like his father who was always skinny dipping. Family had to buy back home movies a woman took of him on a nude beach and a friend said he would shower in a gym stall with curtain open. Always seen in summer in short shorts. Jackie despite plenty of gay friends always frightened he was queer. Also Carolyn was not getting the intense sexual satisfaction a woman needs from a physical relationship. A gay man is not going to give himself to a woman the way a straight man will.

R33 great science fiction you wrote.

He was proud of his body and he loved spending time with the boys, but none of that is sexual. Straight men spend time with their male friends. It’s real life. Weirdo.

Aristotle Onassis's son a,sondoed in a plane crash. I remember thinking when I saw the footage of Jr. with his plane, he's going to end up crashing.

Died^

Why were they buried at sea? Even if the bodies were badly decomposed, they could have had a closed casket service. It seems odd. Did they not want the media circus, or maybe the burial place becoming a tourist attraction?

I just took a look at a photo of Carolyn Bessette; I used to think she was very pretty, but my opinion has changed. She was kinda ugly but striking.

I DO NOT GET the sexiest man thing. Muscular, but IMO, short-legged. HELMET HAIR. I told a guy I was dating back then - what's with the JFK Jr. hair - and he was mortified and self-conscious the rest of the evening. JFK Jr. also had a mouth breather look. Compared to his sister Caroline, who is really unfortunate, JFK Jr. was Adonis, but compared to real Adonises, he was an attractive guy, not a stunning guy., His (recently) late cousin, Christopher Lawford, while not classically handsome, was better looking with more charisma and sex appeal. I never saw JFK Jr. in person which is strange since he was ubiquitous in Manhattan and his loft on N. Moore was a block from my friend's apartment on N. Moore; I'm just going by pictures and film. I did see his mother, and she looked exactly like Jackie Onassis, no more, no less, so I assume the same would be true of him.

He also looked like my brother. My brother no longer looks like what even a worst case JFK Jr. would look like now, but the resemblance was definite, and my cousin called me up when JFK Jr. got "sexiest man" and said, "What am I missing? He looks like your brother!" And my brother had a perfectly active romantic life but did not have women swooning in the streets, and IMO he wore clothes better. And had great hair but not a helmet.

JFK Jr kind of dated women who resembled his sister. One of them, Sally Munroe, REALLY resembled his sister. If you take away Carolyn Bessette's blonde blonde hair and polish, there's the strong nose and big blue eyes and strong jaw -that's Caroline. Before she tamed her hair, her hair was bushy. I just looked up Christina Haag, a long-term girlfriend of his, and she's similar. A skinny, slightly more refined Caroline, but the basics are tehre.

I think they wanted those bodies in the ocean and not lingering in the coroner's office for an additional autopsy (if any were taken) or to be exhumed. There was a LOT going on behind the scenes with the Bessette family, which was faced with the reality that JFK Jr. had killed two of their three children due to pilot error - you KNOW that was percolating even before the conclusions were definite. I read that the burial was rushed along with the press of all the Kennedy ocean bullshit (PT109! Kick Kennedy! OMG!). I mean, other than the fact that they died together, not giving Lauren a family burial somewhere didn't make sense. I understood people were pissy afterwards.

AND they literally wanted it to disappear and not have a place that could be vandalized or picketed.

R28, no. He was unfocused and kind of dense. He would only have been as good as the people around him, and he would have attracted a lot of grifters.

R39, to each his own but also you're nuts.

Carolyn was beaky with a weak chin and the white-blond hair she oddly favored made her look washed out. But she had a lot of style and supposedly was very charismatic in person.

She looked better with darker hair and thicker brows to balance out her strong features.

I wonder if Michael Bergin got any of his bathhouse tricks to help him with the manuscript...

I remember his uncle Teddy insistent they had to find the plane as he didnt want the ghouls to eventually locate it and the coast guard/navy etc stayed on it till they located it. His uncle made sure there were minimal pictures of the retrieval. I thought JFK JR was cremated and his ashes scattered at sea?

Bessettes family eventually accepted a settlement of $10 million after much accrimonious lawyering. As usual Carolyn Kennedy bargained it as low as she could. THey claimed wrongful death due to pilot error, obviously.

His (Johns) mother never met Bessette and would not approve. She almost never approved of any of his girlfriends. SHe was also vehemently opposed to his getting his pilots license. I think she knew John had attn problems and became easily distracted and correctly saw disastor ahead. Jackie was like John s ultimate guidance counselor keeping him upright and on a firm path....when she was gone, it was almost a foregone conclusion something awful would happen to him.,

Her look is exquisite. Her style is simple but impeccable. She also had great skin. Truly an American beauty. They had a lot of pressure as a married couple. More than most. And they were both very passionate people. We'll never know if their marriage would have lasted but I never think any marriage will last anymore.

She had large feet. Just like Mom.

As Mom wuld say -- "She was pretty in the New York way..."

......

The guido half afro. That hair!

For what I remember, JFK Jr.. had the cremation and buried at sea in his will. He didn't want lookie loos flocking to his final resting place. Ted is the one who arranged the quick disposal of remains. He didn't want any pictures leaking out (supposedly there is one). There was also Caroline's husband being totally being insensitive to Carolyn's parents. I feel bad for the sister, she was totally forgotten and I'm not sure why the parents agreed to that burial at sea for her.

Carolyn, was like Sarah Jessica Parker (better looking though) they have charisma and look great in clothes and an air about her. Carolyn's face was so/so, but she was tall, thin, blonde and had great style. I can see why he fell for her. Those women carry themselves a certain way. I do remember an article in gossip page from when they were on their honeymoon in Turkey. Some other tourist eating in the booth behind them said of Carolyn 'that woman is no beauty queen" and supposedly Carolyn and John heard. Not sure if was true though. R40, none of his girlfriends looked anything like Caroline.

R39, what are you smoking? He was breathtaking. I have a relative that never thought he was that good looking. Then she saw him in person and said he was stunning in real life.

I thought the three of them were buried at sea together to disguise the fact that Lauren's remains were not found - just John (still strapped into his seat) and Carolyn (reportedly sliced in half from the waist down).

Why would burial at sea disguise a missing body? They could have just placed a few of her belongings in a casket like they do with completely immolated airplane crash fatalities(my friend who died in the crash of the Delta L1011 in DFW's credit card was the only trace of her found, so they buried that.)

John was a god and he was fated to die young like a god.

Stunning

JFK Jr had really nice proportions - in everything. Volume was great, musculature, handsome face. He looks like a stud in photos but in life he was kind of slight and not a tall hunk. He lied about his height. He was not 6'2" - I felt I towered over him and I'm a bit over 6"2. His father lied about his height as well.

They had the shithead Anne Counter talk about him?? That is truly disgusting. I would never watch that.

How tall do you think he actually was R58?

Jr was about 6'. His cock was a Bouvier 7+, thank Gawd.

I didn't watch the ending of TLDJFK,JR., however, iirc, Lauren wasn't buried at sea. I thought the Bessette Family had a separate private funeral for Lauren. I recall pix of Caroline Kennedy and Senator Kennedy outside the memorial service site on their way in for her service.

If I'm remembering that correctly, I can only imagine the awkward, hard feelings that must have been simmering just below the lid of propriety.

And r47- 10 million? I believe I read an account of the settlement in the NY Times and a source they quoted stated it was more like 30 million per daughter which sounds much more plausible than 10 million.

I've always believed, however that the parties keep the actual settlement amount only to themselves and agree to release to the media a certain figure that may, or may not be near the truth.

For example, I've always been skeptical of the reported 26 million in scram dollars that Christina Onassis settled upon with Jackie O. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual sum wasn't much more , but the parties agreed to leak the false 26 million number.

R62 I always thought that too, Della. That Jackie O. got WAY more than what was leaked. 26 million was Christina's yearly mascara budget. I don't think either of them wanted to show how much was actually splashed out, both for different reasons. If it was known that Jackie got a fuckton of money, it would just be yet another target on her and her children's back.

That Italian hussy wife of his festroyed John John. He could have had any hole or pole he wanted and he settled on her? He could have done much better.

Carolyn was of French heritage r64.

"I don't think either of them wanted to show how much was actually splashed out, both for different reasons."

Yup, r63.

As valued in the 1970s, 26 mill is more than a chunk of change, however, as you point out, in real dollars, that was peanuts to Christina Onassis, BUT it was big enough for Jackie to save face. I too, believe the actual sum was much more.

R64 where did you get Italian from? She was French.

She was an AMERICAN cunt.

Does no one see in Carolyn a certain resemblance to Princess Diana, especially in the hunted and haunting late paparazzi pics? CB was tinier and even more anorexic (and blonder) but they look like could have been sisters.

Not me, r69. They had a bit of a beak, and it ended there. High maintenance too I guess. But Carolyn was ALL about Carolyn...and her coke.

He wanted a woman would would treat him like shit and he got one.

R71 I think he saw her as more of a challenge. She had zero interest in him at first and he wasn’t used to that. He couldn’t handle the rejection.

Who cares how much of a hunk he was? He was an idiot who killed himself, his wife and sister in law.

Lauren was buried at sea with John and Carolyn. There may have been another service for her after the burial, but she was buried with them.

I remember thinking at the time that the cremation and burial happened quickly so they wouldn't be able to test for drugs/alcohol. Obviously I don't even know how realistic that is, but it was the first thought to cross my mind at the time.

R74 they definitely tested for alcohol and drugs... at least JFK Jr. I remember reading the report that came out months later that he was clean. It’s a requirement of NTSB investigations.

R74 Here’s an article I found after a quick search on Google. No drugs or alcohol.

The sex was lousy that's why she ran to Bergin. Jr was not into her. He had girls for show and was never ever known as pussy hound. That is not science fiction. None of his female relationships had any heat. They were companions. You never had the sense they were lovers. If even discussing it offends you so much what is your problem? I'm not saying he was gay but there's plenty of room for speculation. The Kennedys had children like crabgrass and not one was gay?

Jackie seemed to be obsessed with him being perceived as a, in her words, “a fruit”...it’s why she shut down his acting career. Jackie was okay with gays, so long as they weren’t her son.

R77 he wasn’t gay. Nothing has pointed to him being gay since forever. You’re just making shit up.

Not all straight men are super affectionate etc. with their women. Some see them as companions that fulfill their sexual needs.

I will say he was into CB. He wanted her, he got her, and he was protective of her.

R78 I feel that’s many people. They have zero issue with gays until it’s their own then they see issue.

Nothing new there.

I don't think he was gay -- there seems to be a split between straight guys into drugs or sports, and those into sex

R81 and those who aren’t overly sexual. Automatically that means gay to some but just cause he wasn’t overly sexual and affectionate to his women doesn’t mean he wanted men.

Carolyn looked like a rodent. Narrow face, sharp nose, dopey stunned eyes, like a rat. JFK had ADD, he had been on medication since he was a kid.

JFK Jr. and Princess Diana are the two greatest losses that we will collectively ever experience in our lifetimes!

^^^get a life

What shit did I make up? My speculation is really upsetting you. Why is this making you so angry? His grandfather and his father and uncles were hopping on women like rabbits. He was like women are ok. Maybe this is what made Jackie suspicious She knew her father and the Kennedy men and Jr was nothing like them in his relations with women. Carolyn was in bed with another man shortly after her incredibly high profile wedding? Yet Jr adored her? This makes no sense. She wasn't stupid but she was very sexual and risking a helluva lot to get it.

John was fortunate to get the hot Bouvier looks. Caroline, unfortunately, got all the Kennedy genes. She looks like all of her horse-faced Kennedy aunts.

Would anyone here have hitched a ride on a plane with JFK Jr. as the pilot?

Would anyone here have hitched a ride on JFK Jr.?

R87 HIS MOTHER RAISED HIM TO NOT BE LIKE HIS UNCLES AND FATHER. In case you didn’t know his father was murdered when he was a small boy. He didn’t grow up with his dad. He had his uncles around here and there but his mother was his number one forever and she raised him to be respectful to women and caring. Not a womanizer like her dead husband, who she wanted to leave more than once. Just cause a man doesn’t fuck every woman in sight doesn’t mean he’s fucking GAY

They can say it a million times but it doesn't make it true. Carolyn was not beautiful. She was hard looking. I find her whole over reaction to the paps ridiculous, she knew who she was marrying. I recently watched a documentary about The Carlyle Hotel. They said John had breakfast there his last morning. The was it was said, made me think he was living there.

R91 or he liked their breakfast? I’ve known people to go to certain Hotel restaurants or bars cause they like them

I thought the NTSB report said he had spent the night in the hotel.

Their marriage was broken. So much negative energy. Ever been around a couple in such a period? Horrible things happen.

They said he was living in a hotel, but not that one R91. I noticed with these documentaries the marriage crisis is glossed over. They mentioned it here briefly. They also mentioned she didn't want to go to the wedding. They said she was attending so many events & traveling and was tired and that's why, not because the marriage was in trouble. His friend said he couldn't picture John giving up on the marriage. I don't think at the time the marriage was irretrievably broken, I mean she did finally agree to attend the wedding, but had they lived they would've eventually split.

I know John loved NYC, but what he should've done was move away to somewhere he and Carolyn wouldn't be hounded. It's funny, nobody cares about Caroline or her kids at all. The whole Kennedy dynasty died with Jr.

He was a God. I would have eaten that ass even after explosive diarrhea.

I see the Diana resemblance, R69. Big, melting blue eyes over a prominent nose and rosebud mouth. Striking in an off-kilter way.

People care about their precious John John and not Caroline because he’s a white handsome man and they feel they were a part of his growing up cause we saw him grow up. Caroline was always very quiet and modest and trying to hide. People respected that and stopped caring but the care would never be as high as with him cause people naturally tend to care about the All American boy more.

Add that he was very beautiful and it added to it all. Plus he liked attention and liked being in the spotlight.

Caroline is ugly and not chic, which is why nobody cares about her.

Didn’t John spend almost all his life in NYC? He’s a product of NYC. People who move here as adults can’t understand what it’s like to grow up here. Hence his love of the city and wanting to stay where he’s been since a small child makes sense.

If he were someone who lived elsewhere then moved here and got married here etc. I would scratch my head at how stupid he was for not leaving after marriage, especially when married to a woman that hated the attention and who he had to know loved getting fucked by Michael Bergin.

I actually have never understood people that stay in the city while trying to start a family. Too much going on, too much temptation etc. especially when wanting to raise kids. I see all these white folks flocking here with their kids and I’m always wondering why they wanna raise kids here. I would much rather raise my kids in the suburbs.

Well he died before he could start a family, but didn't the kids have Jackie's weekend place?

[quote]JFK Jr. and Princess Diana are the two greatest losses that we will collectively ever experience in our lifetimes!

Um, no

[quote]It's funny, nobody cares about Caroline or her kids at all.

I believe the name "Schlossberg" has a lot to do with that, as far as most of America is concerned.

[quote]Um, no

Vouch...who has just eaten? Let me smell your breath

I recoiled in horror when Ann Coulter showed up in this....was not expecting that! Did she even really know him?

I get not liking Ann Coulter but to act like she killed someone. Relax.

R100, I'm the one who said he should've moved. I'm a native Nyer and I know where you're coming from. That said, I know many people who loved the city, but left. Sometimes sacrifices are necessary. If J/C really wanted to escape the attention and I believe they did, then they could've moved to a suburb or CT or even MA. The media would be less likely to harass them there. I agree with the last part, I don't understand how people raise kids in Manhattan specifically.

R99, I think got it. John was gorgeous, charismatic and well spoken. Caroline was none of those things. I think it's a true testament that it was said no one had a bad word to say about John. From reading the DL, the same can't be said about Caroline. I remember reading that John and Caroline were on the outs at the time of his death.

John John was a huge advocate for equal rights and treatment of black people, black males specifically. He was vocal about race issues in our Country a few times, especially when Mike Tyson got Locked up. They were good friends and he was vocal about Tyson getting picked on cause he’s a black man and that he himself would not Face the same punishment as him for the same crime.

I loved him for speaking up about race issues and the mistreatment of Black men in America.

How do you feel he would have been with the gay movement and gay marriage etc?

Yeah! John is great because he supported a rapist who was black. Really?

R109 he believed his friend was innocent. And stuck by him b

I wanted to such him until his nuts rattled.

[R13] I absolutely agree! I think what made Carolyn appealing and striking was her restraint (be it in clothing or demeanor or whether natural or learned) it's indicative of what used to be old termed as having class (of course today class means nothing more than having money..if you don't believe me, just looks at the trumps ...there is no class or restraint anymore) Also if a woman has style and is confident and appreciative of herself, she does not have to be beautiful...once again carriage and demeanor count!

I also think that most of us are flawed...And lf features are taken separately, they can look severely flawed or ugly...big nose etc,, but put together on a face, sometimes it works... maybe, resulting in a unique beauty.

Also younger DLs don't remember how hounded the Kennedys were...I remember while living in SF, for some reason Jackie O was in SF and stayed at the Fairmont, across the street from where I lived. It was rumored that after she checked out, the toilet seat was stolen...can you imagine! I say all of this to say, yes, they probably wanted a quick burial at sea for JFK Jr and his passengers … It was rumored that Jackie requested embalming etc. take place in her apartment when she died, because she didn't want the possibility of being violated in death for publicity sake. Don't forget . with all her flaws and unflattering rumors about her, she decided she wanted to go to events in a brown station wagon, instead of a Limo...that way she could avoid the rush of photographers and others.

I saw Jackie several times in a plain black Lincoln Towncar.

If you never watched it, watch “I Am JFK Jr”.

It’s orobably the best documentary I saw on him and very honest and charming and endearing.

Here’s the trailer.

Does he present?

ABC really soft pedaled many issues, and the people they interviewed kept insisting the marriage was strong.

Exactly R116. “I Am JFK Jr” is far better, shorter and more honest.

r112, with respect to Carolyn Bessette's choosing of garments with restraint: I never was a fan of her wedding dress, but recently I looked at it a new way after reading someone's reaction to it.

I always looked at it and saw it draped on a lingerie mannequin at now demised Sear's or, a bit higher on the then retail scale, Marshall Field's. Because it reminded me of that, I saw it as the only misstep of her's when it came to a garment.

Recently, however ,someone pointed out that her wedding gown and its utter simplicity; not a frill, sequin or superfluous detail, said without trying, the most elegant thing possible and that is - I'm the jewel. After reading that saw her wedding gown in a whole new positive way.

I'll try to put the following as delicately as I can because race issues are volatile: think it also should be pointed out that then and now, young, tall, thin, white, pretty blondes rule the world. That's not right. It's not fair. I hope someday that no longer is true, but to this day, it's still reality.

As such, their garments don't need to try so hard.

R102, Um yes! 9-11 and the mass school shootings are certainly sad events and a very big loss to to their family and friends, but they were not famous. Princess Diana was the most beloved woman in the world and JFK Jr. was beloved, not to mention, gorgeous and likely a future President! THEY WERE THE GREATEST LOSSES OF OUR LIFETIMES!!!!!

If only I has stock in Kennedy threads on DL.

R119 he may have changed his mind with time, but he never wanted to be President. You can see him speak about his disinterest in getting into Politics in the very last Interview he ever did here.

r121 I forget the article, vanity fair or esquire, but he was thinking of New York governor in 2002, if he did that i have no problem seeing him run for prez eventually

R122 more proof he should not have been in Politics. He couldn’t stay focused and was all over the place. That interview completely contradicts the interview above, which was in May 1999, two months before he died.

He wouldn’t even be leading. He would just do as told by others.

Go on YouTube and search JFK Jr. All you’re gonna see is videos of people claiming he’s still alive etc. some say he’s running Qanon and is a huge Trump fan. It’s absurd.

I don't know why he got the rap as being dumb. He might not have been book smart, but he always came off well spoken and articulate in the interviews I've seen.

r125 Was he Rhodes scholar? No he was not but he wasn't stupid.

He was far from stupid. Just not the intellect or scholar some wish he were (more like many others in his family including Caroline)

Photos of JFK Jr. All him half naked.

If JFK Jr. had gone into politics, he would have been a tremendous asset for the Democratic Party. Besides the mystique of his name and history, he looks like a President straight out of Central Casting. He just LOOKS right.

Can you imagine him running in 2016 and debating Trump on TV? It would have been Kennedy (Sr.)/Nixon all over again.

JFK Jr would be the hottest President we ever saw. Just wow.

He would be great for Dems but he wouldn’t like how extreme some take it. This whole “call me by my correct label or I’ll press charges” type shit would turn him off.

R69, R97, I remember reading back in the day (before the crash) some piece of gossip that Diana was cattily unimpressed with the looks of John-John's new bride. Maybe she was just frosted that he didn't go for herself. I also recall some speculation that Di had fantasies of marrying a powerful American man who would become President (either Jr or that Teddy Fortstman), and she would reemerge in triumph as First Lady.

Caroline didn't draw attention the way John did not because she wasn't pretty or charismatic. She led a comparatively quiet life that wasn't remotely interesting to tabloids. She went to Radcliffe and Columbia Law, married a respectable man and had a respectable career and seemingly well-behaved children. If she were dating celebrities and rollerblading around Central Park in skimpy clothes or failed the bar twice like her brother, or a partying socialite like Paris Hilton, you best believe the press would have been all over her.

R132 yup. I said that above. She wants nothing to do with the public media. Her brother was the opposite, always in the public, always half naked etc.

In the bio of Caroline and John that I read, Jackie was bemused by his girlfriends and flings, including Madonna. She understood he was a big time celebrity and would date other celebrities. Supposedly she always liked his non-celeb longterm girlfriend Christina Haag but who can really say. There's no reason she wouldn't have liked Carolyn Bessette. I think she knew her son was no whiz kid and wasn't going to marry anyone even as smart as herself.

One of the things that surprised me about the book was JFK Jr. was more up himself than one would think. He was a nice guy, yes, friendly, but was pretty entitled in terms of how he viewed both his place in the family and his future entitlements in politics. Pretty shirty for a dumb ass who had to use family connections to pass the bar (how many get a private room in Robert Morgenthau's office to finally get it right?)

Still a big eh to JFK Jr.'s looks. He had a muscular build, so do a million guys. His face, IMO, was attractive. Not some stunning movie star thing.

R134 not shocked at all he was up his own ass. The whole world worshipped this man and treated him like a Prince. He could get whatever he wanted whenever. That starts to make one feel very important.

Fun Fact - JFK Jr found Naomi Campbell “hot” and had a little crush on her lol.

Imagine if he dared to try and date her? Lord lmao

She’s striking but fucking insane.

R134 I have to disagree. JFK jr. was up there with Clooney in terms of looks. If he weren’t a Kennedy, he still would have achieved things just based on his looks. He was even way more handsome than Michael Bergin (who was really hot himself). If he’d gone into acting, he would have done very well.

JFK was an extremely handsome youth but Michael Bergin really came into his looks in his 20's. It's not a competition. In his thirties, JFK had some less photogenic angles and some crazy eyed stares. I think JFK would have aged into a smashing looking older gent however.

huh? here

Christina Haag, Daryl Hannah and all the other girlfriends are probably very glad and relieved that they didn't marry him.

Christina wrote a book about him and is still constantly promoting it on social media.

I worked with her when she was an actress in 1986. That must have been around the time of (or just before?) her relationship with John though I knew nothing about it then. She was very pretty and classy girl. Much prettier than CB IMHO.

Can you imagine if Diana had divorced Charles and married JFK Jr., who then DIDN'T die in a plane crash? Talk about a political power couple. He'd have won the Presidency on sheer Q-rating alone: forget his politics.

Of course, their kid would've basically been the Antichrist, son and grandson of Presidents and half-brother to the King of England (as well as related to most of the British aristocracy through his mum). May as well name in Damien X. Kennedy and be done with it.

Name HIM Damien X. Kennedy. Damn typos.

John Jr had no intention of ever going into politics regardless of some of the posts here. For him his George magazine which mixed politics and celebrity was as far into politics as he intended to go. He also knew that if he ran for any office he was likely to be an assassination target due to the crazies and copycats.

It's possible he could have changed his mind as he got a bit older. After all, this is the man who got a pilot's license and flew in dangerous conditions, even though his family has a history of tragic plane crashes.

I could see JFK Jr. being a very similar president to George W. Bush: A polished figurehead from a prominent family, whose presidential work is really done by others a step down the food chain (Hillary could have been his Dick Cheney!).

Hate Ann Coulter all you want. She wrote for George. Hired by JFK. And over the years, Coulter been an unwaveringly supporter of JFK jr and George.

And R146, a friend of Joy Behar.

Coulter is not the evil person you all claim. She just hates Hilary. Not all Dems.

Hi, Mr. Maher at r146.

I never miss "Real Time" however, while it's not my show, it's yours, I find myself exasperated at irrelevant follow-up questions you have for your conservative guests.

Smoooches!

What r144 said.

I get that everybody else wanted him to run for elective office, but I never got that he himself wanted to for the reasons set forth in r144.

Didn't he have a learning disability like dyslexia?

Congress is where the Kennedys warehouse the stupider cousins

I love how hairy and substantial his legs looked. Just imagine how it would have felt like to have his flanks pounding against you....mmmmmmmm

He was not instrument-trained at all, yet he took off on a pitch black night with fog everywhere. Instead of following the lights of the coastline, he went out over the open ocean, with zero visibility. So unbelievably stupid.

[quote]I love how hairy and substantial his legs looked. Just imagine how it would have felt like to have his flanks pounding against you....mmmmmmmm

Ow.

John had great legs and he knew it, that is why he regularly wore shorts in public.

JFK Jr's college friend, Richard Wiese, who's interviewed in the documentary, was a hot model back in the day. Now, he just looks old. Makes you think that's where JFK, Jr, was headed, too.

R157... unfortunately that’s where we’re all headed.

[quote]Coulter is not the evil person you all claim. She just hates Hilary. Not all Dems.

Got it.

[quote]One of the things that surprised me about the book was JFK Jr. was more up himself than one would think.

Yes, of course he was up himself. Here was a guy who, knowing full well the paparazzi were alway around him, would jog or rollerblade around Central Park shirtless, or play football in Central Park shirtless, or bask out in the open in his underwear or boxers while on holiday. The guy loved the attention, and according to people who knew him, he equated celebrity with power. The bigger the celebrity the more powerful the person. But this was the culture he grew up in.

His sister, Caroline, in contrast, didn't pander to celebritydom and has led a quieter life.

He has the most gorgeous physique. Perfection from head to toes. His legs and thighs were perfect.

John was the Young Prince, the Heir to Camelot, the future President. He embodied a collective dream of the Hero who would vanquish our Inter-Regnum nightmares.

Caroline was freighted with no such mythic import.

If he was unattractive I don't think he'd have gotten the same level of attention. He looks like he was plucked right out of central casting. He looked nothing like his father and far exceeded him in looks.

R163 he got the looks of the men from his mothers side.

The guy just loved being half naked. And didn't we all love him for that!

He loved showing off his body cause he KNEW what he looked like and KNEW the world gushed for him.

The middle photo in r160 is of a physique and stance awaiting Michelangelo.

Yes! R167 he was PHYSICAL PERFECTION it’s insane.

He would have been our hottest President!

He wouldn't have run for president.

I agree he wouldn't have been president, even if he'd wanted to.

He was handsome and charismatic and JFK's "heir" but he wasn't especially gifted intellectually and obviously didn't know his limitations (hence, his death).

His mom should've let him go to drama school and be an actor like he wanted and let him marry an actress like he wanted, but she and the Ks tried pusing him into politics and Greatness like his father even though he just wasn't up to it. He not only failed the bar exam at least twice, but also had to repeat the 11th grade.

It seems he compromised his own desires to be an entertainer with his family's expectation to be a politician, by going into celebrity journalism with that magazine. And that too, was in the process of failing when he died.

I would've loved to see him in movies but none of it was to be.

Maybe he would've entered the digital age with a Huffington Post or Salon -type site.

^ Those sites were already well underway and print journalism had hit the iceberg when he made a decision to found a glossy, print magazine.

He was mediocre in all but his looks.

I respectfully disagree, R171. I'm all about following your dreams and all that, but he was born into a very unique role. Acting would have cheapened his and the family's image. I'm not saying he should've been a politician, but maybe a businessman. It seemed he did like the entertainment aspects of things given what the magazine was about, but maybe a more traditional business would have been better. Maybe even producing film/tv or, given that he was a daredevil, he could have gotten involved in car racing, or something along those lines (I mean the business side).

[quote]He not only failed the bar exam at least twice, but also had to repeat the 11th grade.

Are you sure about repeating a year of high school? He graduated from Brown in 1983, which made him 22 years old, so that would sound normal.

Bergin comes across as a bottom feeder. He and Antonio Sabato Jr. are cut from the same cloth. Handsome, but grossly self-serving and greedy.

A bit random, but I could see a blonde Jessica Chastain playing Carolyn in a movie.

This writer hates the Kennedy's. She sort of right about the special.

"And so we come to the night of the crash, which, for the past 20 years, has been told and retold as an inevitability, the Kennedy Curse striking again. But the Kennedy Curse is simply the Kennedys themselves, their tragedies most often born of their imperiousness as “American royalty,” their arrogance and recklessness."

A fine bitch slapping from Maureen Callahan

Maureen is hardcore.

[quote] The middle photo in [R160] is of a physique and stance awaiting Michelangelo.

Mary!

[quote]"And so we come to the night of the crash, which, for the past 20 years, has been told and retold as an inevitability, the Kennedy Curse striking again. But the Kennedy Curse is simply the Kennedys themselves, their tragedies most often born of their imperiousness as “American royalty,” their arrogance and recklessness."

Well... it's basically true. With the exception of the JFK/RFK assassinations, most of the Kennedy tragedies are either (1) of their own doing, like JFK Jr.'s plane crash or Teddy driving drunk; or (2) tragedies that most of us might experience in our families, like Christopher Lawford's death a few months ago in his mid-60s.

I disagree.

Joe, Jr., died on a WW II mission. Was that hubris?

His sister Kathleen died in a WW II plane crash as a passenger. "Arrogance and recklessness"?

Infant Patrick Bouvier.

JFK and RFK.

Yes, two of Bobby's sons' deaths were avoidable (drugs; no ski helmet).

The point of saying "curse," r183, is not that every family has tragedies; it is that this ONE family, within two generations, experienced a range of tragedies NOT EVER experienced by another American family.

The two political assassinations alone prove that.

Ed Schlossberg sounds like a mega-asshole.

The point is that outside of the assassinations, the other tragedies aren't unique to the Kennedy's.

My paternal grandfather died in WWII (never recovered the body).

My great aunt and great uncle died in a car accident in the 60s before I was born.

I had an older brother who died two days after his birth.

Is my family cursed? Or more specifically, my father cursed? He lost his father, aunt, uncle, and son in tragedies before he was 30.

Yes, r186, but otherwise how was the play?

IOW, one cannot exclude the uniqueness.

[quote]Joe, Jr., died on a WW II mission. Was that hubris?

Yes. He heard that JFK had won a medal and fame for PT-109 and volunteered for his last mission hoping it would get him a Navy Cross (beating JFK's medal)

[quote]His sister Kathleen died in a WW II plane crash as a passenger. "Arrogance and recklessness"?

Yes. The pilot warned them that the weather was turning but they continued on their merry lunch, taking their time for more champagne, and then, when the weather became a mess, insisting the pilot take off any way.

[quote]Infant Patrick Bouvier.

Yes. JFK was a hot bed of STDs and kept infecting Jackie, damaging her fetuses. JFK and RFK.

[quote]Yes, two of Bobby's sons' deaths were avoidable (drugs; no ski helmet).

[quote]The point of saying "curse," [R183], is not that every family has tragedies; it is that this ONE family, within two generations, experienced a range of tragedies NOT EVER experienced by another American family.

[quote]The two political assassinations alone prove that.

Politics is a rough game, but taking on the CIA and throwing the Cubans and Mafia under the bus is likely to make such people mad. And you don't want to make such people mad, even if you think that you are a gift to the political world.

[quote] He was proud of his body and he loved spending time with the boys, but none of that is sexual. Straight men spend time with their male friends. It’s real life. Weirdo.

Some straight guys love the flattery and attention of gay men but are not sexual with other men. He seems like one of those straight guys who'd be comfortable hanging with gay guys.

[quote] Jackie seemed to be obsessed with him being perceived as a, in her words, “a fruit”...it’s why she shut down his acting career. Jackie was okay with gays, so long as they weren’t her son.

A woman of her time. She believed that if her son was a homosexual it would reflect poorly on her mothering and it would be to the collective disappointment of a nation.

[quote] Coulter is not the evil person you all claim. She just hates Hilary. Not all Dems.

She's pretty terrible. Mostly because her regressive, noxious punditry is an act that makes her money. It's her livelihood.

I really believe that the Kennedy's had a neurological defect that predisposed them towards sociopathic, high risk behavior. And combine that with access to power and money and you get the various Kennedy fiascos of the last 50 years, (excluding the assassination of RFK and John obviously ). I've always found the medias reverence for them shallow and distasteful .

[quote]Yes. JFK was a hot bed of STDs and kept infecting Jackie, damaging her fetuses. JFK and RFK.

Also, Jackie smoked during her pregnancies. Of course, this was before doctors knew the damage that nicotine could do to an unborn child.

The special divulged nothing that hadn't already been said a thousand times before. The fact was that John Jr. was a reckless dimwit who got himself and his wife and sister-in-law killed due to his own stupidity.

It's too bad he didn't go into politics. I think he would have won any election he ran in. But I have no idea what kind of politician he would have been. He was so dumb. Unless he listened to the counsel of savvy advisors I think he probably would have made some really unfortunate decisions. He had a tendency to do that, make bad decisions. Like inviting Larry Flynt to the White House Correspondents Dinner; the stupidity of that was astounding. He invites this sleaze, this pig who printed naked pictures of his MOTHER, to something like that? What an idiot.

We should of had three successive Kennedy Presidencies, JFK, RFK and Ted. We would be a much better nation for it!

You should of had an English teacher.

R196, pot—meet kettle.

[quote]You should of

Oh dear.

crissakes I was mocking his syntax.

R199 you need to mock better.

Baby Bush was just as dumb as John Jr, and Reagan was a dementia-ridddled fool. With the right advisors, anyone can be a good president or at least perceived as one.

JFK Jr. isn't the only dimwit on this thread.

[R192] The "neurological defect" you speak of was named Joseph Kennedy, Sr.

He encouraged the 1st generation in competitive, compulsive, thrill seeking behavior. The win at all cost, "We're So Special" mindset was ingrained by him. By the 2nd generation it was part of the family's mythology.

JFK Jr. had dead eyes like his mother. He also was always stiff and awkward when he spoke in public, pronouncing each word slowly as if he didn't want to make a mistake.

I felt sorry for his lack of humor and spontaneity.

The more I find out about the Kennedys, the less I like them.

R196/199, I got it the first time.

I yield, r188. No snark.

Their family is so trashy. Each generation retains the trashiness, even with access to money and education. Even the youngest ones aren't immune to the sleaze that emanates from this band of creeps. RFKs daughter Kyra is quite the entitled little stank faced cunt. No wonder her mother offed herself , anyone would with a daughter like that.

Kennedys don’t cry.

Maria Shriver is the vilest cunt who cunted. There's a reason Arnold was fucking the Mexican maid.

What did she do r210?

R210- someone is a comment section elsewhere said the same thing about her daughter the one that is dating Chris Pratt. Said she was a horrible person. Must run in the family.

Around town:

@ABC7Jory

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. came across the street from the Federal courthouse in downtown LA to check out a Black Lives Matter protest outside the Hall of Justice. @ABC7 – at Hall of Justice

If it wasn't for the media, everyone outside of Massachusetts would have forgotten the Kennedys by now.

Please, you must be joking.

The Kennedys are America's royal family!

He was a reckless idiot who asked for what he got. And the two women were victims of that Kennedy "I'm invincible" tripe that seems to only affect Kennedy men.

Because the Kennedy men are rich entitled privileged white men. They always feel invincible

R217, you deserve to be run over by an oncoming bus!