Knots Landing (1979)

I have every episode on videocassette under my bed. I have visited the cul de sac and other locations numerous times.

I loved nighttime soaps, but never saw one episode of this show.

I had a serious crush on Ted Shackleford; he had an impossibly hot body. But he had no lips.

I loved it, except for the last three seasons.

Kinda shitty houses, backing on to that highway.

This was my absolute favorite of the 80's prime-time soaps. I first caught up with the show when it ran in syndication during the late 1990's (was it SoapNet? TNT?). Getting to see a new episode every day was a huge plus and I was hooked from the beginning (I believe that I started somewhere near the beginning of season 2). One hint - Abby is EVERYTHING on this series. The show is rather boring before she appears and quickly goes off the rails after she leaves. Other than that - AMAZINGLY entertaining show!

A guy who sat next to me in class in high school watched Knots Landing, and it was the only thing that we ever talked about.

Donna Mills should not claim responsibility for doing her own makeup, since it was obviously caked on for hours and her face resembled a Christmas tree.

Her makeup was distracting.

R5 - LOL! They wanted the illusion that the homes were near the ocean, when in actuality they were somewhere in Granada Hills (DEEP in the valley).

I always thought the houses were in the San Diego area.

Watched on youtube. That Gary/Valene/Abby love triangle was something ! But I think my fav character was Karen Mackenzie. The first seasons were the best. Very good quality show.

I remember Karen's meltdown after Sid died... it was actually not much a melt down, Michelle Lee played it pretty restrained until somebody's baby made her weep. But it was nicely written and done.

Yess! Loved KL.

The same amount of time has passed from KL debuting until now as to when GWTW debuted until KL debuted.

I have no idea why that popped into my head.

Loved this show - loved the cliffhangers! Torture each summer waiting for the show to return.

Gary was so sexy in the first seasons

Constance McCashin was so thin in the first seasons.

Joan Van Ark would have looked better had she aged naturally. Now she actually resembles a Madame Toussaud wax figure.

The cul-de-sac:

Loved KL. Much more relatable than the ultra rich of DALLAS. Is it true they were setting up an affair between the Kevin Dobson character and that pretty, young AA lawyer before they announced the cancellation and then scrubbed it for the happy endings?

I didn't realize Knots Landing began before Dynasty.

Ted Shackleford was sooo sexy and dreamy.Love blonde hunks!

I recently binged and watched every season. Loved the big hair, clothing and the remodeling of the houses. It was a classic.

I loved the first few seasons.

KL reunion

With Alec Baldwin and Kevin Dobson, I think this show is why I started to like hairy dudes.

Sometimes Ted had lips.

What a hot dude.

Gary was hot

I remember this magazine on the newsstands - (at the Renaissance Center in Detroit for those in Michigan)

This was the best of all the primetime soaps because it was the closest to old school soap opera. Loved every minute of it, even the final seasons.

I am curious about something, I can't recall where in SoCal the show was set. Anyone know?

Farentino, by the way ...

Ginger and Kenny, the hottest couple

R30 I always just assumed it was generic LA area, sort of like the Brady Bunch. I don't think they ever actually said in the show.

"Alright Alec, now let's try one with your shirt, pants and underwear off. Now put your arms around Lisa..."

Mah babies!

R32, Kenny was sex on a stick! Too bad they booted him off the show early on, but he and Ginger were kinda dull. If I'm not mistaken, they brought in Abbey soon after to stir up shit in the cul-de-sac.

Another tough day at work for Lisa

Don't mean to be a thread crapper but i watched it a few times during its original run and thought it was a poorly done prime time afternoon soap. I only went back the few times I did because of the occasional beefcake. Likewise Falcon Crest, another poorly done prime time soap.

"Every guy here wants to fuck me..."

R40, aside from the hair, she looking great. Aging naturally.

Knots is the best show prime time soap of all time. So underrated, but off the radar enough that CBS let it run for 14 seasons. Agree with the post up thread that Donna Mills was the MVP. Amazing storylines and acting with truly memorable moments- all the lead characters convening at the Fisher house (“Haaaaaarrrryy go!!!! They wanna take the baaaaaabies!!!!”), Jill forcing Val to overdose at gunpoint (“I can’t without water!!!”), Abby burying Peter in the children’s playground (“it looks like a settling crack...what do you think, Abby?”). Just a glorious show. One of these days it has to be acquired by a streaming service. I’ve given up hope for a full DVD release as they’ve gone the way of the dodo bird.

memba this ?

It is available for purchase. Someone took the time to eliminate the commercials and make dvds of the 14 seasons.

^^ I remember that ! And Aby saying "Aww...Poor Val", how cruel ! Lmao

R42 The whole episode where Jill forced Val to take pills to kill herself was the best! I loved how Jill drove to San Francisco for a convention, picked up a guy and took him back to her hotel room, drugged him to make him pass out, then drove back to LA to make Val OD, then drove back to San Francisco again so she could wake up in bed next to the guy she drugged so she'd have an alibi. Great stuff!

The whole plot with Abby's daughter being a drug addict was great, too. I remember Abby taking all the doors off the hinges so her bratty daughter didn't have any privacy.

Omg yes, Jill ! She was a real psycho ! Also Aby's daughter : Olivia when she was a drug teen addict. Really KL was the best 80s 90s soap

Gary was so fuckable, i would !

For some reason, I thought Kevin Dobson was sexy, too.

Jill vs Valene

Yup Mac (Kevin Dobson), was hot

Gimme the keys

Just realized that Abby's son was Ryan Austin Green !!!

Loved Laura. When she checked out, so did I

* Brian (Not Ryan), Austin Green I meant. Abby's son !

When they all gather to watch Laura’s videotaped goodbye? Perfection. That entire 2-part episode “Noises Everywhere” was peak Knots. I loved how they had some major characters never interact- think Greg and Val or even Val and Abby in the later seasons. So when they had rare onscreen moments, it was electric.

^ OMG Yes, when Laura died... Greg Summer ( William Devane), performance was outstanding. I cried like a baby

Laura and Greg

I recall that episode... the body was delayed or went missing and somebody cracked a joke like Laura left Knots Landing and she's not coming back.

The houses look so shitty in the YouTube video. Was the show meant to be aspirational?

And Karen and Mac will raise Laura and Greg daughter.... Because Greg was a rude and an unscrupulous businessman so when the love of his life, Laura died, he couldn't raise his own daughter so he asked to Karen and Mac.

And then when Greg married Abby for political purposes and she was on board with taking Laura back from Mack and Karen- that was Abby at her most heartless. The show had the guts to make characters unsympathetic. “Do you think Laura would have you raise her child?” “Well she doesn’t have much to say about it does she? She’s dead.” Slap! The only time in 10 years Karen slapped Abby. If this was Dynasty, slaps would’ve happened every episode. Not on Knots.

^Exactly ! You nailed it hahaha

R46 they built the Jill thing up sooo slowly. She was pretty much a background character for 4 or 5 seasons before becoming a full blown psycho, just another pretty face. But even when she was first introduced it was made clear she was just a little bit unstable. I thought Teri Austin would go on to be a massively successful TV star after her meltdown season in Knots, but it never happened.

R65- agree. Jill Bennett was all about the slow burn. For years she was a C string, somewhat bland character whose primary purpose was to prevent Gary from being with Val since he “loved” her. But one pivotal scene with Abby when she sadistically warned her that “first Mrs. Ewing doesn’t go away...ever” planted the seed and set her on a path to madness. The genius of the show was it’s subtley. So years after Abby unwittingly had Val’s babies stolen from her, it could be argued that she was somewhat the reason Jill snapped and put Val in her cross hairs. It all comes back to the Abby and Valene rivalry. Brilliant.

Teri Austin (Jill) was dating Ted Shackelford in real life, they were really in love but it didn't last

If there was ever a night time soap that deserved a reboot it's KL. The children grew into actual characters. Olivia and Harold, Richard and Laura's children would now be adults, Karen and Sid's children Michael and Diana. Would she be the bitch of the flock? I don't think so, but when she was a youngster she certainly made trouble with Chip. Maybe Greg and Laura's daughter (named Meg?) could be running Sumner enterprises. And don't forget the twins, Bobby (yes, named for Gary's once-dead brother Bobby Ewing) and Betsy.

Gary and Jill dating

Agreed KL deserves a reboot ! Here is another pic of Ted Shackelford and Teri Austin when they were dating

A reboot of KL yes please! Where should the fictional setting be in the future?

Still has to be southern California. That vibe was an integral part of the show.

Ha ! The old good time. No cellphones everywhere, no computers everywhere, no creepy musics, no bad actors, no bad series, NO Trump......

As much as I loved this show, I have no interest in seeing a reboot. The reunion miniseries was awful, and the actors are now in their late 70s. It’s better left in the past.

A reboot wouldn't use the same actors. I know they've called Will & Grace, Roseanne, etc "reboots," but that's inaccurate. They're continuations. Reboots reimagine some aspects of an established show and have a new cast.

In that case, it’s even less compelling. This is an amazing show best left in the past. You could never replicate the alchemy of that core cast. It was magic.

Oh good Lord R75, must you be the pedantic one in what's right now a fun thread?

All in favor of using the term re-boot raise your hand. Those in favor of continuation? Yea, I thought so.

Joan Van Ark was interviewed recently and said she would be up for a reboot but thought it would be more believable for her to play Val's daughter or niece since people wouldn't buy her as a woman in her 70s.

Abby Ewing looked like a raccoon. Donna Mills should have let a professional do her makeup.

I wouldn't want this show rebooted. It was too perfect. In my opinion it was the perfect classic soap opera, which means that most of the audience would say that it was too slow and boring. As someone above said, this show was about the slow burn. The big moments were great, but it was all about the journey to get to those big moments.

I loved the entire series, but my favorite episode is Goodnight Moon. The thing is I never really cared all that much for Laura, but her death was so good.

[quote]I never really cared all that much for Laura, but her death was so good.

And my pivot was par excellence, even if it did land me face-first in a chili-and-Frito pie on the craft services table.

The idea of doing the show with the same actors now is ludicrous. The youngest members of the cast are now in their 50s. The oldest, in their 80s.

Loved the early seasons.

Nicolette Sheridan ruined it. Especially when she was fucking that guy old enough to be her grandfather.

She was a poor man's Abby.

I agree that the show went overboard with Paige. I think that played a part in Donna Mills’s decision to leave. Paige was fine, but we didn’t need her to become THE lead actress. There was more emphasis on her than the 3 real leads and season 10 was the worst example of that. The fact that Paige basically ran Abby out of town was a bad way to end the run of the best character in Knots history. I cringe when I think of her and Brian whistling Bobby McFerrin in her last scene. There wasn’t a final scene with Ted Shackleford or Joan Van Ark. I also thought Greg became over exposed in the latest seasons.

Welcome to my eye shadow!

Why did they get rid of Ginger and Kenny? The show needed a hot younger couple.

I never watched shit like that.

R86 Because they were boring.

The early years were kind of a slog. The show got amazing around season 4 or 5.

I missed Julie Harris, Betsy Palmer was a poor substitute.

Thank you, R51 and R54! Those were some of the best moments of Knots Landing!

I loved it when Val survived Jill's attempted murder and she was in the hospital, everyone thinking she had tried to kill herself. Then Jill came in to the hospital room with Gary to visit her, and Val went batshit crazy!

If those clips are any indication, the acting was hilariously bad.

Pollyanna.

Who is the actress in R93?

She is on TV, with a camera inches from her face. Why is she playing to the back row of the upper balcony?

Michele Lee often discusses the “Pollyanna” speech and acts like it was on the cover of Time. Only die hard Knots fans know about this scene but she acts like it was the Gettysburg Address. Sweet thing.

It's interesting that Teri Austin had started in the business as a stand-up comic. I can't imagine her being remotely funny. I guess that means she did a great job at playing scary psycho Jill.

R94 That's Michele Lee, the "matriarch" of Knots Landing. Her Polyanna speech was epic!

Teri Austin bares a resemblance to Pollyanna in her psycho wig.

Restraint wasn't Michele Lee and Joan Van Ark's strong point, but even when they went over the top, they were entertaining and never went cartoon territory. And they certainly didn't do the Val character much justice with some of the crap they gave her later on in the show

Good point that even the children of the original characters would now be in their 40s and 50s. A continuation should have happened in the early 2000s.

Bobby and and Betsy would be 34 now. Meg would be 31, But I think they later aged her a bit to make her roughly the same age as Bobby and Betsy. Plus Brian and Kate and Michael and his wife announced they were expecting in the (sadly very disappointing) 1997 mini series. So there could be younger characters in the mix.

I doubt the show is on anyone's radar for revival sadly enough, and I'd only want it to happen if David Jacobs was heavily involved.

Gary and Valene were horrible parents.

The early years were self contained and not serialized, they had that Eight is Enough and Family feel , two other Lorimar series, to it and it WAS EXACTLY how the late 70s/early 80s suburbia felt

Karen Allen played Sid's daughter, the trouble maker Annie in the pilot episode

Unlike other nighttime soaps, the characters on Knots were for the most part FRIENDS and they hung out together a lot and babysat each other's kids. It was very realistic suburbia

I never watched that shit.

Michelle Lee had a fabulous post-Knots career.

She voiced the grandma in Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer cartoon.

She also played the real life country singer who died in a car wreck. It was hilarious seeing her do a slo-mo scream as the truck she was in with an old man driving swerved around a corner and into another vehicle.

The houses look so shitty.

I would assume a reboot would focus on the current residents of the cul-de-sac, as the original show did.

When Knots premiered, the cul de sac epitomized upper middle class Southern California suburbia. There are houses all over San Diego, Orange County and the San Fernando Valley like that.

Except for Kenny and Ginger’s house, they were all two story, and Val, Laura and Abby had swimming pools. They look out of date now but in the late 70s/early 80s they would have been aspirational.

Earlier this year, there was a thread about "Dallas, Dynasty, or Knot's (sic) Landing", so I'm just going to copy/paste my comment from that thread:

[quote]I watched Dallas, Dynasty, and Falcon on occasion, but I was dedicated to Knots.

[quote]I remember being at my grandparents one night and they watched all the primetime soaps. It was the episode where Ciji has her big performance to launch her recording career. Of course, before her performance, Abby threatens her because she thinks she's sleeping with Gary, Chip (her ex that knocked her up) tries to get back together with her and she turns him down, Richard thinks she and Laura are having a lesbian relationship, and Val pushes her into a coffee table in an argument about Gary.

[quote]Then, she never shows up for the launch party, so Ginger (who thought Ciji stole her career) performs the song, and at the end they cut to Ciji's body washing ashore on the beach. I always loved a good murder mystery, and this motherfucker was ON. (It's funny, people think of this episode as the season cliffhanger, but it aired in February, and they were back the next week, finding Ciji's body, and arresting Gary for committing murder in another of his drunken blackouts.)

[quote]Any way, that had me hooked into Knots for the next 3-4 years, but then I was off to college, where watching TV became a bit of a challenge...

JR was so mean to Valene for no reason.

R110 He did have a "reason" she was a poor hick, and Gary was a Ewing. Might not be a great reason but it was a reason.

Val also produced the first Ewing grandchild and Gary was Miss Ellie’s favorite

Kim Lankford was good friends with Robert Durst victim Susan Berman, and appears in The Jinx

I had forgotten about Sid. Did they just kill him off for the drama because there didn't seem to be any reason for it and I thought his chemistry with Michelle was better than with Kevin Dobson.

It's what I imagine it would be like if a community theater did a nighttime soap in the '70s.

Don Murray wanted off the show and they decided to kill him off instead of writing him out or recasting him.

R114 Don Murray did not want to return for season2.

Love this recap of the S5 cliffhanger.

Another great ending no one saw coming.

The houses look like tear downs.

R120 and yet in the California of today they would go for a million or more.

Can they do a reunion episode where they all get consumed in a wildfire?

Charlene is so down to earth.

[quote]Joan Van Ark was interviewed recently and said she would be up for a reboot but thought it would be more believable for her to play Val's daughter or niece since people wouldn't buy her as a woman in her 70s.

I could see her saying that. Parts of her are indeed no older than her daughter or niece.

I haven't seen her lately, but I remember Joan Van Ark looked grotesque when she played Gloria on Y&R about 13 years ago, Judith Chapman was definitely an improvement, and JVA was only slightly better looking when she did the new Dallas around five years ago. I hope whomever was her surgeon, had his license revoked.

Well, I enjoyed my time there.

Joan Van Ark's name is translated to Joan of Ark in Dutch, and she owns and has worn for years Joan of Ark's actual medals around her neck.

R127 Arc

I notice no one is mentioning that Lonow creature.

**snicker**

Accent thick as 5 pounds of buttah!

Constance McCashin would be a great rap name

Good acting here.

R130 I love Charlene's Swiss Miss beachwear!

Good times!

Anytime shit didn't go Diana's way, I was a happy camper.

The Banger Sisters 2

I can't believe Donna Mills is 78.

Lucy looked like she should be yodeling on that beach.

I loved Knots Landing! I met the actor who played Tom during the show's heyday and my best friend ended up dating him for a bit.

Gather your tissues for this one.

R120, R121 - those homes currently appraise for between $850, 000 and $1.2 million, which means that they would likely hit the market and sell for at least a hundred grand or so more than that. The "highway" that they back up to is really not a busy, high-speed highway per se; Balboa Blvd. is just the central thoroughfare through Granada Hills (a rather sleepy Valley town). By no means is the area really affluent by LA standards, but prices are just so insane these days. The town is most famous for an entire neighborhood of mid-century modern homes that are regularly filmed as period sets for movies and TV. No, I am not a realtor - just obsessed with filming locations! :-)

Ingenue

Nobody told me Ted Shackelford had transitioned.

A decade before Madonna, Naomi and Big Daddy Kane

Loved KL... Karen was like tgis wonderful mom figure that made u feel safe.....was shocked when Sid died...(learned later Don was a big star going into it..had starred opposite Marilyn...was he fired for wantimg more money?). Loved the C.G years...lisa hartman was so cool.... loved the theme tune...sounds like a famous song called Erus Tu..

I owned this on cassette

R140 So my valuation was right in the middle of the actual price. I tend to get real estate valuations right, for some reason. It is a weird skill to have, especially since I'm not in real estate nor do I live in CA.

R31 alright I'm into him too

You nailed it R146!

Has any said that Michael Fairgate should have been gay? Because he should have. God knows how Pat Petersen turned out to be straight. That boy pinged to high heaven!

Steve Shaw (Eric Fairgate), died so young in 1990. He was only 25 years old

Funny enough, I always assumed that his character was gay, R149 (the show never went there though..). His fling with Linda never really rung true to me - but I did like Lar Park Lincoln in the show.

At 78 Donna Mills is pretty active on her Instagram page. She is good person IRL. A real good one. Michelle Lee is on Instagram too

[quote]She also played the real life country singer who died in a car wreck. It was hilarious seeing her do a slo-mo scream as the truck she was in with an old man driving swerved around a corner and into another vehicle.

OMG, I had forgotten about her Dottie West movie.

Anyone have a clip of Julie Harris butchering Amazing Grace at Joshua's funeral?

Why was Chip so bad? I'd have been on my knees for that in no time.

"Calgon, take me away..."

Alec was maybe one of the hottest men on earth when he played Joshua on Knots. That face and that ASS. (Just forget what he looks like now)

Lord, he used to be HOT:

I'd go up on the roof with him anytime.

Well who's bright idea was it for Valene to buy that damned computer?

I love Noises Everywhere (Laura's two-part funeral episode). Definitely episode of any of the '80s primetime soaps. All of season nine is great, but that episode in particular. It's a good example of the rare times a show is better in its later seasons. Instead of feeling forced and out of steam (like the show would in a couple of seasons time though) it has an acumen and command over its history that the other soaps lacked. Apparently, all the actors were invited to David Jacobs house and had to react in character to Laura's death; he then wrote the script around that.

There are so many great moments: Like Val telling Karen she can make the coffee as well as her, which seemed like it had been building for seasons but never enough to merit mention until then; the beginning of Jill's alcoholism and her own 'funeral' for Peter; the foreshadowing of Abby and Greg's marriage that didn't feel at all liked the forced musical beds on the other soaps, but simply obvious; Abby telling Val about The First Mrs Ewing.

Anyway, has this (below) been posted yet? I don't know if anyone remembers that thread about the Deluded '60s Starlet but the author of the (unfortunately now dormant) blog who wrote that HATED Knots.

Pollyanna is perfect.

Pollyanna, my ass,

R160- is dead right about Knots being that rare show that was amazing well into its 9 seasons. There wasn’t even a hint of fatigue and it just got richer and richer in a way no other prime time soap ever has. Most of the stalwarts were becoming tired caricatures of themselves at that point but not Knots. Conflicts between characters were that much more fraught. For example, when Gary and Val went to court for custody of the twins, it was almost painful to watch because of the investment we had at that point. I remember a scene where they are fighting on the street and Mack has to be separate them and Gary actually shoves Mack away. It was so real. Fucking loved this show.

It was a soap.

And all soap fans know that storylines have ups and downs, but if you use history to tell story in the present, and use the right actors, you can strike gold.

Too many shows, then and now, went for the big splashy moment (Moldavia, anyone?) at the expense of history, character or both.

I CAN’T WITHOUT WATER!

R165 Poor Val!

In my humble opinion, the best episode of all time was a season 7 episode called Phoenix Rising. I’ll caveat by saying Abby was my all time favorite character and this was her ultimate showcase. She’s in nearly every scene and she’s being blackmailed by nearly everyone about her knowledge of the twins being alive. The scene where the whole cast is at some gala is amazing- “go ahead and tell him Greg!!!” She starts the episode a loser and ends a winner. Classic Abby.

Why is this not out on dvd?

Because the first 2 seasons were poor sellers (not surprising since the show didn’t hit its stride until season 4 or so) and the episodes where Lisa Hartman sings cover songs are expensive to clear. They did t the math and pulled the plug on future releases. I have dreams of a beautiful complete series being released in a box set but that is never going to happen.

I wish I understood music rights better. There are so many shows that used popular music back then. Did they only license the music for one original and one repeat airing? Or have the music licensing fees just gone up to unmanageable levels?

160, the blog writer you mention(I assume you're talking about hillplace.blogspot) didn't completely hate Knots. He praises the Richard/Kenny/Ginger years, for example--he just thinks the Knots crew has an overinflated value of how they were the "middle class" soap as compared to the glitz and glamour Dallas and Dynasty.

Any idea what Lilimae's final bodycount was when she eventually left the show for good?

Pat Petersen played my favorite Knots-y, Michael Fairgate. I kept wishing they'd make him a gay.

R170 Look how they had to butcher 90210 episodes on DVD because of the music rights.. Awful.

R170 They cut a deal for music rights when the show went into syndication. For DVD releases, they would have negotiate another deal. Some artists/songwriters want an unreasonable amount or unwilling to let them use their song at all. It's been a roadblock for other TV series and movies getting DVD releases also.

The hottest guys on the show for me were Paul Carafotes (Harold( and Alex Barth (Alex). Unfortunately the show never utilized either in the way they should've been.

Loved Kathleen Noone. She made a great villainess.

Kathleen was one of the best things about the last few seasons. She really good at both drama and comedy. Claudia and Anne's scenes together were great. She and Michelle Phillips really played off each other well.

I would be bitchy too if I had to live in one of those 1970’s teardowns.

Which cast member was feuding with whom?

R180 There weren't many feuds on Knots. The cast got along well for the most part. There was some resentment towards Nicollette Sheridan because of her being younger, pretty, getting a lot of airtime and press. Donna Mills left the show in part do to that and Michele Lee bitched to anyone who would listen about Nicollette. When Nicollette showed up for the cast photo shoot one year in a wedding dress. Michele was super pissed and made the gossip columns.

There was more drama with the cast and writers. William Devane and Joan Van Ark would often complain about the writing and storylines to the writers and the press (JVA certainly had reason to at times) and the women were concerned about the lighting and being filmed in a flattering way.

[quote] I wish I understood music rights better. There are so many shows that used popular music back then. Did they only license the music for one original and one repeat airing? Or have the music licensing fees just gone up to unmanageable levels?

A combination of both of those things.

Generally, the original licensing would have been for a limited time. I believe it was usually for either 5 or 10 years. But most of those licensing deals expired, obviously.

At the same time, two things happened. A lot of media companies consolidated and merged. And Napster, etc. made making money on music harder and harder. So what the new, combined companies couldn't get from the consumers, they tried to get from other big companies. Thus music right costs exponentially soared.

R182 It is so ridiculous to me, a film or tv show using your song, is free advertising for your song and makes it more likely that a person will go and download it on itunes or stream it on spotify.

[quote] I met the actor who played Tom during the show's heyday and my best friend ended up dating him for a bit. R138, was your best friend male or female? Any gossip from that relationship?

When Dallas got rebooted somebody asked if KL could be rebooted. She said she would like it but didn't think thete was a realistic chance. Her main reason was that Dallas only got a chance because it had a worldwide good reputation which KL never had.

Considering how the Dallas reboot got messed up, I doubt they'll ever consider a KL reboot. And considering the Dynasty remake I also hope they leave KL alone.

Michele, Joan and Donna remain super close friends. Always on Donna’s Instagram and they are working on a top secret project together that they hope comes to fruition. I hope it’s not a reality show because that would be depressing.

Knot's was so...common

R183 I agree, but companies now don't seem to share that intelligence.

Michele Lee and Sandra Bernhard have become good friends since Sandra moved from LA to New York. They swim in the pool in Michele's building, and Michele has her over for holidays and Oscar viewing parties.

What happened to Val's southern accent? It just went away like Reva Shaynes.

The Lechowicks hated Joan and it was mutual. They wrote Val the once-plucky heroine as shrill and batshit crazy, and that’s why Joan left.

The super-secret project between JVA, Michele and Donna was a reality show that no one wanted to buy. It’s dead.

A revival focusing on some of the younger cast (the twins, Meg, Daniel) interacting with the older cast in supporting positions could quite easily worked, but given that the original leads are now pushing 80, it would have to happen fast.

This thread is for oldies. Hee hee!!!

[quote] The Lechowicks hated Joan and it was mutual. They wrote Val the once-plucky heroine as shrill and batshit crazy, and that’s why Joan left.

I think the Lechovicks were gone by the time JVA left. Despite what actors typically say, I rather assume that budget cuts took another victim. If I remember correctly, JVA, Ted Shackelford and Michelle Lee were the only original cast members left in the penultimate season. And I'm sure one of them had to go because by that time they cost a fortune. Other measures were taken for the last season to cut cost, like limited number of episodes for each cast member.

Michele took pride in being in every episode of Knots.

Joan hadn't been happy with her storylines for years had a TV pilot in the works (which didn't get picked up) and wanted to move on to other things. The future of the show was in doubt at that time any.

Michele was supposed to have missed a few episodes of the last season due to the budget cuts, but she wanted to be in every episode so badly, that she look scale pay to appear for the episodes she was supposed to have not been in. She was minimally involved in those episodes, though.

How did viewers respond to Sheridan?

I remember my grandma & her circle of friends were obsessed with KL but when Paige took over they all dropped it like a hot potato.

I remember one of her friends specifically saying that she was sick and tired of them trying to shove this kid down our throats like we are supposed to hang on her every action or something like that.

Sheridan was pretty bad her first few seasons, but she improved some over time. I never was a big fan of her character. She was best when she worked with Devane, Dobson and Michelle Phillips.

I liked her better on Desperate Housewives.

Never could get into Knots mainly because of Donna Mills. Shrill, and the infamous raccoon eyes. She lacked the camp and glamour appeal of Joan Collins on Dynasty, and the acting skills of Jane Wyman on Falcon Crest. She did tone down the heavy eye make up and improved the acting once she left Knots though.

You have to give credit to Lisa Hartman for making a lasting impression on a show that aired so many seasons, and with such a large cast.

Richard thought Laura was involved with Ciji based on nothing but paranoia.

Here he is in German,

MAAAAHHHH BAAAAYYYBEEEEEZZZZ!!!

....

Joan's real best performance on Knots. Imagine her doing the first part of this in present day form!

That amnesia storyline could have been so bad. But the eay it was built up and executed, it actually turned into a story I bought into.

Valene actually had the biggest motive to shoot J.R. but she was too busy dealing with that heifer Abby to cross over.

Sue Ellen scheming against Gary and Val on Dallas TNT.......They lost their Lotus Point money and Gary had to ask Bobby for a handout...It was also revealed Gary fell off the wagon and cheated again......Thanks to Soap Net I have every Falcon Crest Episode but NO episodes of Knots...The channel was discontinued before I could do KNOTS....Let me know if anyone has it...

Joan Van Ark should have had transplants and/or microblading instead of those eyebrow tattoos.

[quote] I have every episode on videocassette under my bed.

MARY!

R206 here......Dibs if anyone has this on VHS.....I converted my whole LA Law and Falcon Crest and Picket Fences to digital.....Oh, the things I can do for you...Knots Landing is one of those rare gems....

Michele Lee got KNOTS LANDING by playing Lou Costello's wife in BUD AND LOU.

Michael Fairgate on Knots Landing....

Michael Fairgate...Dreaming of his share of Empire Valley---which everyone in the Cul-de-sac seemed to have a stake in)....

I'm shocked Lilimae Clements didn't get to kill off Michael.

I only think of Julie Harris as Lily Mae when I watch Rebel Without a Cause.

R214 East of Eden

Lilimae:Serial Killer

Does this thread keep crashing for everyone? Took about five attempts before it let me reply.

One thing that always bugged me was how Soap Opera Digest would always sing its praises about how "relatable" KL was because of the neighbors being just like you and me. Yeah, how many of you have an inner circle of a multi-millionaire rancher, a Senator, a best-selling author, and a televangelist? Maybe the first 3 seasons were relatable (you know, the ones everyone considers boring). After that, not so much.

R217 DL is buggy this morning.

And agreed......

Why did Donna Mills never marry?

R217 it was more relatable than the other night time soaps and the first 3 seasons are excellent, I live that 70s grungy feel to them

The Lie,vwhich center's on Laura's "rape" in season 1 is one of the best written, character study type episodes ever. Knots couldn't do those types of storylines after it became can full on serial/soap show where they had to have 5 storylines going on per episode

[quote]One thing that always bugged me was how Soap Opera Digest would always sing its praises about how "relatable" KL was because of the neighbors being just like you and me. Yeah, how many of you have an inner circle of a multi-millionaire rancher, a Senator, a best-selling author, and a televangelist? Maybe the first 3 seasons were relatable (you know, the ones everyone considers boring). After that, not so much.

True.

Though even has their wealth increased and the show became serialized and increasingly soapy, the show managed to for (the most part) hold a lid on it better than the other soaps because of its intelligence and sensitivity. The characters mostly did feel like ordinary people caught in extraordinary circumstances, unlike big personalities like JR or Angela Channing.

I think season seven is the only season it kind of goes... off. It's strange because the three proceeding and three succeeding seasons are great and there are -- on the surface -- no major shifts. (Apparently the reason for it was that it was overseen David Paulsen from DALLAS that year and he doesn't quite 'get' it.) That's the season with the underground tech center Gary blows up and all the characters getting overdressed to attend a vague benefit where Olivia tells everyone that Abby knew about Val's babies... and nothing happens.

Actually, even the first three seasons aren't all that relatable (from a class perspective): The characters are decidedly on the upper end middle class: Detached home-owners in an affluent, oceanside California suburb. Working as oil-heirs, lawyers, music producers, car dealership owners, realtors, accountants, novelists and all capable of taking time off when the story-line necessitates it. Their cars show no sign of being chosen with '70s gas price inflation in mind.

And when Richard did hit financial trouble he asked them for a loan of 10k (as if people have that lying around) and was then bailed out by Laura's father and her rapid rise in real estate (and that gift of a car from her boss pride made him tell her to return!)

I won't even get started on Sid's uncle owning several hundred acres of prime California oceanside property.

Is Teri Austin a lesbian? I did get vibes from her and she has lezface, but it only really pinged when I read she began as a stand-up. I'm imaging her wearing something Poundstone-esque.

Her Wikipedia lists no husband and I think she's better case for lesbianism than the much-rumored Mills.

She actually reminded me of Terri Garber from DYNASTY.

Both fitted their names.

Why does Donna Mills regard herself as an authority on makeup. She always looked like a raccoon.

R22 Teri started having an affair with Ted Shackelford not long after joining Knots. Ted divorced his first wife to be with her. They split up towards the end of her stint on the show. They remained professional, but still that must've been awkward for them.

I guess it's possible she could've went lez later on.

If I didn't have male pattern baldness I would so go for Lisa Hartman's butch mullet.

I never knew that, R224.

Donna lied about her age outrageously - she was born in 1933 although she 'now' admits to 1940. The Abby character was around 30 when Donna showed up in 1980. I think someone had proof she graduated high school in 1952 and was the inspiration for the Grease heroine Sandy.

R223- that was the '80s... Donna certainly was not the only offender with that look. I was too young to care about the show much at all in early 80's (I never anything soap-like at all until probably the mid 1990s). What I do remember vividly were men going insane over Donna. She was really one of those quintessential '80s sex symbols - perfect body, perfect hair, perfect face, etc. Being a smart bitch was the cherry on top.

I wonder why we never heard from Pat Petersen again.

R229 ------here I am!

Tragic about Steve Shaw who played Eric, died around 1990 in a car crash. He wasn't the best actor but he was one of Karen's boys. Michele Lee played Mama Bear so well.

Donna is 85?

She's trying to play 60-65 on General Hospital.

Well, I'm not saying I was born in 1933 and I'm not saying I'm wasn't.

What I am saying is that you'll find my birth certificate at the Illinois Hall of Records any time you want.

Does that answer your question, R232?

Well, I'm not saying I was born in 1933 and I'm not saying I'm wasn't.

What I am saying is that you'll find my birth certificate at the Illinois Hall of Records any time you want.

Does that answer your question, R232?

Why did that post twice?

Cause it was fuckin' funny, R235.

Jill, let the 2nd Mrs. Ewing give the soon-to-be 3rd Mrs. Ewing a piece of advice: The 1st Mrs. Ewing NEVER goes away.

Didn't some blonde woman's husband try to rape some guy's daughter when the father went for chocolate ice cream?

I know I'm in the minority, but loved, loved, loved seasons 1-3. The show just had a very atmospheric late 70s, lazy southern California vibe about it, sort of like Family, that I found very appealing. Season 4 bridged the realness of the first three seasons and the outrageousness of what was to come in season 5. I pretty much stopped watching when it became the Nicollette Sheridan Show.

Donna Jean Miller graduated Taft HS in Chicago in June 1958 and at U of I in the 1959 yearbook where she's a Delta Gamma. Her 1940 birthyear is correct.

I know a cast member from 89-90 who was in 6 eps. She basically entered the scene, looked in the fridge, sat down at the kitchen table, said "What's new?" - all so one of the female leads could give some exposition. She now paints faces and has hers tightened.

Did she give you any dish we could feast on?

People called Knots, as in "did you see Knots last night?"

We called it “Snots” for short. Gross but that was what we called it in my household. “Are we gonna watch Snots?”

There was a great thread a few years with tales from the Lorimar commissary, and how all these bitches from the different soaps were cliquey and strategically positioned themselves at certain tables. I can't even fathom Donna Mills, Constance McCashin, Kim Lankford, Barbara Bel Geddes, Vicki Principal, Jane Wyman, Susan Sullivan, etc, sitting in the same cafeteria. Does anyone in the know have any tales to share?

Can't imagine Mills being "clique-ish" or really caring all that much. Everyone who has ever worked with her has nothing but good things to say in her favor. And she is still very close with Lee and Van Ark so they must have never felt threatened or anything.

Principal, OTOH....

Terri Austin isn't can let, about 10 years ago I heard she was married to actor E. Erich Anderson, best known as Rob of Friday The 13th: The Final Chapter

"He's killing me, he's killing me"!

That guy

[quote] Terri Austin isn't can let

Again, but in English?

R248 sorry my Auto-correct is ridiculous, I meant she isn't a LEZ

Donna had a pretty good nose job. Can't say the same for Michele or Joan.

How can Abby and Val be such good friends? Did Val forget that Abby stole her man and her babies?

R251 right. That used to piss me off when I watched the original 90210, characters would do nasty things to each other and then all would be forgiven, like Dylan high as a kite and knocking Donna unconscious into a pool and almost killing her

GH just made a joke when Donna had a recent appearance - they had a newspaper headline that called her character's fate now in jail) a stay in "Rots Landing."

[quote]and then all would be forgiven, like Dylan high as a kite and knocking Donna unconscious into a pool and almost killing her

Who wouldn't forgive him for that? I'd encourage him to try it again.

Is this streaming on any platform? I’ve recently watched (and loved) every season of Dynasty on Prime and I’m really curious now about this show now. Strangely, I have no interest in Dallas though.

I was one of the 12 people who bought Knots DVD for seasons 1-2 and was really hoping they'd release season 3, but alas. How did Falcon Crest do on DVD? I think they released seasons 1 and 2. I can imagine there'd be less interest in that than in Knots.

Given they didn’t release later seasons, I suspect Falcon Crest sales were disappointing as well. Let’s face it- money talks. If there was coin to be made, they would sell the shit out of the prime time soaps. But this isn’t exactly Friends or Seinfeld. And to be honest, how many people do you know that bought Dallas, say, season 8. It’s all a head scratch.

Kim Lankford (Ginger) was in talks to come back for the 14th and final season, Ann Marcus, who was showrunner during season 3 returned for season 14 and one of the storyline ideas was to have a newly divorced Ginger come back for Val's "funeral" and stay with Mac and Karen and rekindle her friendship with Karen and work at Sumner group and become infatuated with Greg Sumner, they were gonna bring her back something like 8 episodes but suddenly a lot changed behind the scenes and they had to spend season 14 "wrapping it all up".

Seriously----nobody recorded this from Soapnet?.....I recorded every episode from Falcon Crest assuming I could go back to Soap net and get KL....Hit me up if you have it.....Random episodes are on YouTube but I want the series and it's not on DVD......Why must I suffer?

Donna Mills' makeup was so heavy it bothered me when she would come onscreen. She always had full award-show glam eye makeup in the daytime and when she was lounging around the house.

I watched it on YouTube last year for free. The episodes are no longer available. Instead the person is selling seasons 1 thru 14.

R261 ---I will look into that...thanks....

You’re welcome, sluts.

You are such a slut!

It looked like the cameraman at (r263) was going in for the fill VPL closeup on Pat when they cut back to, um, Dick, Clark that is...

R263 Pat was packin'!

I was about 13 or 14 when Ted Shackelford was at his peak of his physical beauty (season 5, I think), and to say he drove me wild with lust would be an understatement. I used to have the most insane JO fantasies about him. Tall, blond, built, athletic, handsome, hung, all-American...he ticked off all the boxes for me.

Did Ted ever do any on-screen nudity?

How about Doug Sheehan? The Fairgate boys??

I'll pass on Grampa Greg Sumner. Blech!

Somewhere out there, there's an article about how they did the funeral gathering. It said the actors, who wanted to, were drinking real booze. It also said the dialogue was mostly improvised and that it led to a new storyline. Based on this most people will imagine which one.

I used to JO to the sight of John Pleshette's hairy back and shoulders.

Upscale...

Constance McCashin and Julie Harris were the best actors on the show. JVA, while a good actress technically and was well trained, was just so OTT. Michele Lee was fine the first three or four years, especially in season 3 when she was dealing with the aftermath of Sid's death. She even got an Emmy nom that season. But as the years wore on, she just became more and more OTT.

R272 - all of the main women really were great actors as they fit their parts quite well. Even when they were given scripts and story lines that deviated from their established characters (you could tell when a new writer popped up for a season), they handled the hiccup masterfully. Donna was as good as the others - playing a calculating bitch who was always cool, calm and collected and yet often empathetic and warm-hearted underneath it all can't be a "piece of cake" role. For everyone screaming about her makeup - look at Dallas and Dynasty from the same period. Most of the "hot" female leads were dolled up like they were attending a white tie formal almost 24/7. That was just the look then. Constance was excellent; I agree.

Something odd happened around season 4. They always had Val and Laura and best friends, with Karen more of a mother figure. In fact, when Lillimae first appeared, Val introduced Laura to her as her best friend. By season 4 or 5, Constance (and Laura) were sidelined. Val and Karen were suddenly best friends, and JVA and Constance barely shared any screen time for several seasons.

Age is a bitch.

I came late to Knots but I loved DeVane and (minority opinion) Michelle Phillips as Anne. I was a huge fan of 60s pop n the 80s and loved the Mamas & Papas. Mama Mich was a hippie princess and I was thrilled she got a prime time tv gig, if even only for a few seasons.

They even did one episode where, after flashbacks, she tried to seduce her former teen boyfriend Mac by playing "This is Dedicated to the One I Love" on a turntable. Good stuff.

Mac was not having it, obviously.

Side note: Michele (with one L) Lee only could dream of having the music career Phillips had. God knows she tried.

R275 They used a flattering pic of Ted. In the last few years, he's started to get that frail, old man look. Hope he doesn't have a serious illness. Around the time he was on the Dallas reboot show, he had some type of health problems.

Wow, time has not been kind to Ted. I can understand men and women aging, but he looks like he's been very ill and is now moving on from whatever he battled.

Lisa Hartman and Constance McCashin aged the best. Here's a somewhat recent pic of Devane and McCashin together at a restaurant. She still looks really good.

Team Greg and Laura all the way baby! Did the show ever resolve Laura's departure? I mean, was Greg ever notified that she had died? Did he receive a death certificate? If not, it's a missed opportunity for one of Laura's sons (with Richard) to have returned to KL with the news... just an appearance, maybe two episodes. He could have spent time with Michael Fairgate... if you know what I mean.

Here is an interview with Constance McCashin who is a psychotherapist now.

Jason: Hey. Tell me about, I need to ask you about Lisa Hartman. You had a great run with her and some onscreen implied lesbian relationship onscreen with her and no one had ever done that on prime time before…

Constance: Yes, now it’s become, you know, de rigueur.

After reading that at R281....

I, uh, okay. That actually made me cry a little. How lovely.

Karen got shot by George Costanza's almost-mother-in-law! Who knew?!?!

Ginger's singing kills Ciji

Great interview with Ms. McFacepushedin.

She's funny and down to earth. Did the acting thing and then just picked up and moved on with her life.

She's aged beautifully, too.

I always found Connie a more interesting actress to watch than the three leads, Joan, Michele, and Donna. I don't think Connie had that the glamorous, over-the-top appeal of the other three, especially when the show went full on high-octane prime time soap opera by season 5, so she was maginalized and eventually sacrificed for the budget. Yeah, sure, she was great with William Devane, but that relationship was played sparingly.

R209 Almost entire series is uploaded on Dailymotion

Longest running spin-off ever?

R288 For primetime soaps yes, but Law & Order: SVU has Knots beat and is in it's 20th season.

If you count animated shows, The Simpsons, which was a spin off from The Tracey Ullman Show, is in it's 30th season.

That cliffhanger at r283 is showing everything about a soap done right. Those season-long story arcs where every story somehow was one thread of an all encompassing fabric. I loved that back then. The Wolfebridge story in KL, which branched out to Val babies, even her amnesia story. Or consider Jock's death on Dallas which lead to Bobby's divorce, Mickey's and Pam's mother's death, even the fire on Southfork. They were able to milk Jock's death for two seasons. Or Carlo Aggretti's murder on Falcon Crest. Everything a bit contrived, but it all played so well into each other and made sense. Plot and character driven stories in a perfect mix. Those were the best times of prime time soaps.

R287 Thanks!!

[quote] The Simpsons, which was a spin off from The Tracey Ullman Show, is in its 30th season.

And hopefully its last.

R292 Yes, that's one show that's way past it's expiration date.

I remember Constance coming into a restaurant in Brentwood I worked at. Still remember what she ordered bc it wasn't on the menu and it was so unremarkable...steamed shrimp with steamed broccoli no sauce with lemon wedges. I remember thinking why bother eating out. You can make that shit at home.

Knot's Landing could easily have gone on another few years. It was CBS's budget cuts that killed it. The last 2 seasons were horrible. It was like CBS deliberately sabotaged it, (which they did).

Yeah, the show could've ran a few more years. Knots did the best job by far changing with the times, that's why it lasted the longest of the 80s primetime soaps. I thought the second half of season 13 was actually pretty good. Season 14 was hit and miss because of limiting the number of actors in episodes due to budget cuts.

I think if they really tried, they could've kept the budget within reason. Devane and Sheridan were reportedly leaving at the end of season 14 if the show was picked up for another season (although Devane had threated to leave before and ultimately stayed). That would've taken a big chunk of out the budget problems.

There were some terrible characters (and actors in some cases) added in the few seasons. Vanessa Hunt (ugh), Joseph Barringer, Benny Appleman and so on.

They also managed to squander Marcia Cross and Halle Berry (yeah, not a great actress, but she sure had star quality, even then).

Michael and Jason, that abused kid Mack and Karen took in, would have made a cute couple.

R298 That would've been an interesting pairing. I thought Thomas Wilson Brown, who played Jason, was a pretty good actor.

One of Knots biggest faults was not utilizing the younger characters (under 30) properly and finding ways to keep them on the canvas. They missed the ball with Michael, Olivia, Harold, Jason, Julie and Alex. This could've brought in more of the coveted younger viewers too.

They were too hell bent on shoving Nicolette Sheridan down everyone's throat.

At least Harry managed to move on with his life after he returned the babies and got engaged to Becky Deveraux.

[quote]One of Knots biggest faults was not utilizing the younger characters (under 30) properly and finding ways to keep them on the canvas. They missed the ball with Michael, Olivia, Harold, Jason, Julie and Alex. This could've brought in more of the coveted younger viewers too.

I think they tried to do that with Michael and Olivia but then it became clear that neither or them quite had the talent / appeal to pull it off.

I know a lot of people complain about how much focus Sheridan got as the series wore on but I didn't mind.

Hi Nicolette!

Victoria Broyelard simply hangs around for a half season to remind Paige over and over again once per episode that Pierce is dangerous. Marcia is great so it works, but that character would've quickly become tiresome with anyone else in the role.

S11 is unwatchable. S12 not much better. The first half of S13 is just as bad, but the second half is surprisingly great! And S14 is quite good too.

[quote]...steamed shrimp with steamed broccoli no sauce with lemon wedges.

A girl needs a break from the junk food I regularly eat on this site. How do you think I keep this figure?

Yes, Constance still looks like Laura.

The others, however...

....

Christ, I hated that whole late 80s aesthetic.

I think the least great opening was the 'Sandcastle' theme of series 11. The only opening without the cast headshots, which were obviously omitted that year so as not to remind that Mills was no longer with the show, and there has been other shakedowns within the cast. That opening was cute and pixieish; but it just wasn't Knots.

Totally agree, R311 - not to mention that it looked like it was filmed with Uncle Marty's VHS camcorder with a total production budget of $175. Maybe that was the case with all of the above-mentioned budgetary restraints? It was a pathetic opening nonetheless. Most hate season 9 - but I will still stand by that slow, dreamy, oh-so-1980's opening. I just find it endearing. Season 8 was great too - the last of that successful format.

Side note: I'm getting so frustrated with this site crashing for me all the time. I've used different devices and different browsers with the same results. The older version *never* crashed on me. /endrant

Thanks for that link to the KL videos on dailymotion. I spent a good chunk of last night/this morning watching the end of S4, the last 6 or 7 episodes. While I enjoyed that season, I was quickly reminded of the wash/rinse/repeat cycle of many Knots stories (and it's exaggerated when you binge-watch). Gary gets in trouble. Val tries to save him. Abby gets annoyed and rolls her eyes. Lilimae harps on Val. Karen freaks out. Karen tells Mac to pull some strings. Mac and Karen argue. Mac and Karen make up. Those middle seasons (S3-S6 or S7) seemed to rely on those tropes a little too often.it was entertaining to watch, but could get a little stale after a while.

I'm in the minority as someone who preferred the earlier years that focused on the cul-de-sac. By the time the fifth season came around, Half of the original cast was gone, and you could see the shift away from the neighborhood. Before long, most of the attention was on the business/political stories, and Sumner, Paige, etc. I was losing interest.

By the late 80s, I was also off to college, so stopped watching regularly. I remember tuning in to see Laura's last episode, and don't think I saw any past that.

So William Devane pretty much ruined the show, huh?

I could've written r314's post. I also much preferred the early seasons. I tuned out after season 5 or 6, and returned to watch Laura's exit story.

[quote]I came late to Knots but I loved DeVane and (minority opinion) Michelle Phillips as Anne. I was a huge fan of 60s pop n the 80s and loved the Mamas & Papas. Mama Mich was a hippie princess and I was thrilled she got a prime time tv gig, if even only for a few seasons.

I found Michelle to be fine too. She was at least as good an actress as Donna Mills, and it was great how she replaced the 'irreplaceable' Abby to become a rival for her own daughter in competing for the same men. Though her character was not as well formed as Abby, I liked how they got under her skin after a season or so, making her into something more human.

I was in every episode, you whores!

Brave of you to admit it, Michele.

As was your distracting nose job, Michele.

Let's talk about how Michele Lee could go from grinning ear to ear, to wailing in a matter of seconds.

Oops, this is the clip I meant to post in R321.

The fact that thus show was consistently overlooked by Emmy voters, after scoring a few major Emmy nods for Season 3, is mind blowing

Fine it's a nighttime soap, we get it, but even the technical aspects of the show were top rate and should of been acknowledged, the cinematography, editing, camera work, clothes etc were all top rate and extremely cinematic, which was not the norm for a weekly drama series in the 80s, I still remember certain scenes and how brilliantly they were shot.

I loved the late '80s aesthetic. And the S9 - S11 openings.

I thought season eleven did a good job of capturing the style of the show: reworking the original theme tune into something more mature; the sandcastles of the locations (the cul-de-sac and Sumner building in the background) were more unique than the rolling picture frames which could've fitted onto any show from that decade and referenced the show's coastal setting; and they acknowledged the show had moved beyond just the cul-de-sac into the wider community without being as abstract (or just meaningless) as S9/S10's graphics (which I love nonetheless) or as narrow as the 'Scenes from a Marriage' segments from the early seasons.

I assume my opinion will be unpopular though -- the rolling picture frames are the show's most tangibly identifiable ones.

Someone throw paint on me while I creak my head around moodily.

Pat Petersen at his hottest

R322 That was Mommie Dearest wire hanger level stuff!

Pat Peterson was nevah, evah hot

[quote] I came late to Knots but I loved DeVane and (minority opinion) Michelle Phillips as Anne. I was a huge fan of 60s pop n the 80s and loved the Mamas & Papas. Mama Mich was a hippie princess and I was thrilled she got a prime time tv gig, if even only for a few seasons.

[quote]I found Michelle to be fine too. She was at least as good an actress as Donna Mills, and it was great how she replaced the 'irreplaceable' Abby to become a rival for her own daughter in competing for the same men. Though her character was not as well formed as Abby, I liked how they got under her skin after a season or so, making her into something more human.

I think her main problem was how she was served by the storylines. I found her tiresome when she appeared in season eight and what should've been a two or three max episode run dragged on for a third of a season. She was better in her one episode in season ten (did she pretend to be drunk or mourning?)

When she joined the cast full-time -- and in an interesting way (thank God she wasn't busy) -- she was fun. At first. Then, in season twelve, things go downhill when she and Nick spent the whole season doing those stupid caper plots.

She only really becomes good when in the second half of season thirteen the show suddenly improves and she gets to play what seems natural to her: the diva-ish radio relationship advice guru. Her hook-up with Greg that seemed obvious since she arrived finally happens. Seriously, that storyline was right in front of them yet they kept avoiding it. Why?

Phillips was a perfectly acceptable actress. (Not on par with Van Ark or McCashin of course) But she could be fun. She worked as a faintly desperate, faded minx who bloomed too early and had her best days behind her; she was a sadder character than most of the other more self-possessed women -- yet funnier. She was more like early Abby -- before she had to wealth to simply boss everyone around and had to rely on her looks, which Philips seemed ready to acknowledge weren't as secure as Sheridan's.

I hated the sandcastles opening! I finally get promoted to the main cast and they show sandcastles instead of pictures of the cast???

Anne and con man Nick were a hilarious couple, always scheming and failing. Loved the Anne/Claudia battles too.

That's a nice interview with McCashin up thread, but it's a shame she doesn't address her battle her struggles with compulsive eating that have been documented at length elsewhere. I suppose she still might be in denial, but you would think as a therapist she would be a bit more evolved.

I live down the street from the small cemetery where Steve Shaw is buried. I learned of him and his life from a notable burials section online. It's nice that some of you have recognized him here.

I loved the scene in which Karen saw Nick's cock and was stunned by its size. I guess we have to imagine that Sid and Mac were just average (or less).

I jacked off to images of Ted Shackleford in cowboy boots.

[quote]That's a nice interview with McCashin up thread, but it's a shame she doesn't address her battle her struggles with compulsive eating that have been documented at length elsewhere. I suppose she still might be in denial, but you would think as a therapist she would be a bit more evolved.

Because I'm still battling those demons, I don't feel qualified to comment.

What city and state is Steve buried in?

Did any of his cast mates go to his funeral?

^There was an interview with Jim Houghton a few years back. He mentioned that the first time he saw Ted Shackelford since he (Jim) was axed was at Steve's funeral.

R337 Glendale, California

Steve was killed in a car accident, I think while the show was still on.

Steve Shaw obit in the LA Times

Towards the end of Season 12, they had tribute to Steve, showing a bunch of clips of him as Eric as Michele Lee sang "Look at that Face." They showed it during its syndication run on TNT in the mid 90s but they cut if out on Soap Net for some reason.

R339 - James/Jim was so damn HOT back in the Knots days. Too bad that he and Ginger were given such boring roles on the show. Of course Knots always found plenty of hunks to fill in for those that they fired off..

I couldn't stand Mack. There, I said it.

I just re-watched the pilot on dailymotion and I have to say it holds up very well. It sets up the characters and the dynamics of their relationships. Interestingly, of the eight major characters, Laura is the least fleshed out and explored. Connie McCashin is pretty much window dressing compared to the seven other leads. I remember reading that Laura did have a character-revealing type scene in the pilot, but it was eventually cut from the episode.

[quote] Interestingly, of the eight major characters, Laura is the least fleshed out and explored. Connie McCashin is pretty much window dressing compared to the seven other leads.

McCashin says as much in the interview upthread.

Season 1 cast photo

McCashin was fired in a poor way (when she was very pregnant) and the character of Laura should've been fleshed out more. She got more development than say Ginger and especially Kenny did (just focusing on early characters). Still she got a long run on the show and Laura's death drove storyline for many years after. Even in the maligned reunion mini series in 1997.

Michele Lee always reminded me of Annette Funicello

I was in high school, and I never watched any of the big night-time soaps. They seemed ridiculous and cartoony. Never caught the Dallas/Dynasty wave either, even though Dynasty was shown in gay bars here in NY. Knott's Landing ran forever as I recall, something like fourteen seasons?

[quote]McCashin was fired in a poor way (when she was very pregnant) and the character of Laura should've been fleshed out more.

Lankford had a similar story about how they let her go after S4. Just called her into the offices one day and told her she was done after the season. I guess the big difference was that she wasn't pregnant at the time. But she had just split from her partner (Warren Zevon), and said she craved the stability of working there with her friends.

[quote]She got more development than say Ginger and especially Kenny did (just focusing on early characters).

I thought Kenny was basically the town tramp, male version, who was always looking for his next piece of ass. Well, that is until they suddenly decided to make him into a stand up guy in S4. But that's basically how they developed him, as a sleazy opportunist with a pretty face.

I think Ginger and Kenny were the least interesting couple in the cul de sac and were pretty much played out. I agree with the decision to write them out.

For me, the show really took off in season 5 and sailed for many years. The show had almost a hypnotic quality and at that time, rose far above Dallas and Dynasty in quality and character depth. It truly was an amazing show, and could have gone on for many years had CBS not killed it with budget cuts.

Or killed it by trying to shove Devane and Sheridan down everyone's throats.

Joan's best work was on "Son of the Beach", target demo 13-18 year old boys.

Ok, who of you bitches posted this? I know r201 is in this one. Who else?

Give me the keys

The sand castle opening was wretched. I remember dreading the new season since it would be Abby-less. Once that opening happened, I knew the show as I knew it was really over. Who thought that was a good idea? I also agree with the post upthread about Greg and Paige being overexposed in the later seasons. William Devane was best in smaller doses. He was such a quirky character, and I'm not sure he was meant to be the male lead. I also recall being so frustrated at the misuse of Donna Mills in the finale (except the final scene of course). They barely had her interact with the cast in the finale, save for a couple lame scenes with her and Greg (and one with Paige). I wish the finale had more of a feel of Noises Everywhere, where the entire cast was in a hothouse environment. That would've been amazing.

R358 Abby was definitely back burned in Seasons 8-10, the Lechowick years. She was a supporting played while the hideous Paige filled in her position as the third female lead

A damn shame since Abby ran the show from seasons 4-7, Peter Dunne really got her character and for awhile, she was the "face" of Knots to the general public

The Lechowick's even admitted in an interview that they never "got" the Abby character and had trouble writing for her.

A gay friend was at Aspen a few years ago and rode up the lift with an attractive older man and woman. They struck up a friendly conversation and my friend told the woman that she reminded him of Michelle Lee. "Well, that's because I AM Michelle Lee."

Awkward.

r359 Why would the give the job to someone who couldn't "get" the main villian of the show ?

R361 - great question. Abby was the character that everyone tuned in to see; she was the JR or Alexis of the franchise.

I think one of the ways Knots stayed fresh was by constantly evolving and not staying static. The Abby character was becoming tired by that point, and it was time to hand off the torch to Nicollette.

The finale of Knots was rushed - but still good turns by Donna Mills and Joan Van Ark. Abby taunting Paige at the Sumner Group was perfect.

All of you must be old.

I am 31 and I remember my mom watching Knots as a kid and little did she know I was paying attention. All I knew were the Paige years.

Years later as a teen I watched the entire series through SoapNet (RIP), and I loved the entire thing but Nicolette added a new energy to the show.

By season 9 or 10 Abby wasn’t nearly as cool or fun. She became repetitive. They needed a fresh breeze to come through, and they did with Paige.

And while you all bitch about her I know many people who were in their teens and 20s when she came on board and preferred her seasons.

Also the ratings went back up a bit with her which is part of why she became prominent.

Gary, Val and Abby were played out by season 7 or 8. You could tell the focus was on Paige and Greg. The writers obviously struggled to give Ted and JVA decent material as the show ran on. Ted/Gary was pretty much an after-thought those last few years.

Why don’t they add this to Netflix, Prime or Hulu??? I never got this. I’m sure they could acquire the rights for free.

Or even CBS All access can add it to their site...

Not acquire the rights for free. I meant cheap. Sorry. Having drinks after work lmao.

Claudia Lonow was so miscast. It was hard to buy that she was the product of two attractive people like Don Murray and Michele Lee. Steve Shaw and Pat Petersen looked like they could be their offspring, but not that Lonow creature.

A lot of hot people make ugly kids. Depends what features they get of each parent.

Most attractive couples produce similarly attractive kids.

Don't even go there.

Paige was the best thing to happen to this show

Can somebody please educate me on Sid's first wife and a daughter with that first wife? It must have all happened in the pilot that I never get to watch. Were they ever mentioned again? Or were they retconted out?

R373 = Nicolette Sheridan

Donna Mills was the best thing to happen to this show.

R365 - considering that I was born in 1980, I was basically too young to watch the show at all when it originally aired. I caught up with it much later in syndication on Soapnet. Personally, I liked both Abby AND Paige, although Abby was my favorite. They were very different characters and both were good for the show. Perhaps the biggest issues with the "Paige years" stem from the budget cuts and poor writing. Some of Sheridan's best acting occurred when Abby would read her (which happened often if memory serves). They played off each other brilliantly. I don't believe that Mills was pushed off the show - I think that she was just ready to do other things after a decade of Knots (not that she found any success doing so). From the interviews that I have seen on youtube, the filming schedule was brutal for the leads on this show and they really had no time to do anything else. Fat paycheck or not, I can understand tiring of that after 10 years. Check out some great Abby moments (some with Paige) below:

[quote]Some of Sheridan's best acting occurred when Abby would read her (which happened often if memory serves).

Actually, they don't. A rivalry between the two (and later between Paige and Anne) seemed obvious, but they actually shared few scenes together. Only briefly for the Who Killed Peter? storyline (they began season eight on friendly terms) and they're together little in season ten, even during and after the Greg's Marriage and Campaign. It isn't even until her final episode that Abby rates Paige on the Abby scale.

Which is a odd. And a shame.

[quote]They played off each other brilliantly. I don't believe that Mills was pushed off the show - I think that she was just ready to do other things after a decade of Knots (not that she found any success doing so). From the interviews that I have seen on youtube, the filming schedule was brutal for the leads on this show and they really had no time to do anything else. Fat paycheck or not, I can understand tiring of that after 10 years. Check out some great Abby moments (some with Paige) below:

I don't believe she was pushed off either. The show's ratings were actually rising in season ten! And I don't think there were any budget cuts. So why fire her? She must've left on her volition.

Donna Mills was insanely in demand during that period, and starred in over 15 feature length TV movies alone while she was still involved in filming Knots, plus the whole assortment of extra side projects that she dealt with.

Karen Allen (Raiders of the Lost Ark) played Annie, Sid's teenaged daughter (Karen was 30 at the time). She messed around with Kenny and was resentful of Karen. She never appeared again after the pilot. Later on Claudette Nevins showed up as Sid's 1st wife. Again one ep.

The show never acknowledged Eric Fairgate dying on Knots Landing

No mention of the black actor who died of AIDS who claimed he lost all his weight on "the watermelon diet"?

R382 Poor Larry Riley. Here he is practically drowning in his clothes on an episode of Knots:

Poor Larry Riley is right. Of course after his death, his wife claimed that he was 100% hetero and a HUGE womanizer who contracted HIV from a chick. I'm not sure that I believe that. Considering that he went to rehab at least once, I assume that he might have been using dirty needles - so that could have been the source. Who knows - so many stars (usually smaller roles, but stars nonetheless) on those big night time soaps died of AIDS during this time period. Sad.

R380, thanks for posting this, "Karen Allen (Raiders of the Lost Ark) played Annie, Sid's teenaged daughter (Karen was 30 at the time). She messed around with Kenny and was resentful of Karen. She never appeared again after the pilot. Later on Claudette Nevins showed up as Sid's 1st wife. Again one ep."

I have no memory of Karen being Sid's second wife or that he had a daughter, who was half-sibling to Diana, Eric and Michael.

R377's clip is very interesting. Donna Mills was the perfect soap actress, capable of displaying three different emotions in one minute. No subtext remained unspoken. And best: Abby was having fun being bad. Very few baddies in soaps could pull of fun as an antagonist without turning into cartoon characters. Abby remained real because she was written and played as a well rounded character. KL definitely lost a huge chunk of depth after Abby was gone.

R381, Karen would NEVER have recovered from her son's death. NEVER. And we had already seen her deal with grief when Sid died, so such a storyline would've been repetitive.

Plus, Shaw had not been on the show for awhile when he died and the character had already been written off, so there was no need to address his absence.

The tribute to him was touching; the cast was tight and I know Michele was gutted when she heard.

R377 I was born a few years after you, but I remember watching all the nighttime soaps with my family. I'm thankful that my parents allowed me to watch any show they watched.

I LIVED for the nighttime soaps as a gayling. Of course I watched the Big 4-Dallas, Dynasty, Knots and Falcon Crest. But I also watched the little remembered ones like Flamingo Road, Paper Dolls, Bare Essence, Berringers, The Hamptons, King's Crossing, The Secrets of Midland Heights, The Colbys, and Emerald Point N.A.S. I'm sure there were others, but those are the ones that best come to mind. I knew all the characters and all the storylines. I was quite the little budding queen. Those super-glam villaineesses, especially DOnna Mills and Morgan Fairchild on Flamingo Road and Paper Dolls, were EVERYTHING!

R389 I must say there are times when I catch myself trying to turn my head dramatically like they used to do in the various primetime soap openings, I remember from my childhood.

Here's Constance wearing men's clothing. I recently watched an old episode where Karen wore a men's tie. Was that really big in the 80s? Women wearing men's suits, ties or suspenders?

R389 Thanks, I had forgotten about some of those shows. I wish some cable channel would repeat them. Do we really need endless showings of M*A*S*H

R391 Shoulder pads were very common. One of the worst 80s fashion trends. Made women look like linebackers.

So did Laura eat out Ciji's moist snatch?

Like I was lapping up the creme filling of an Oreo, R394.

Paige was the highlight of the series

^Said nobody ever.

WEHT Hunt Block?

Hunt dated Candy McClain from As the World Turns.

That's CADY, you bitch

Laundry Day

Lisa deserves to go in the "Celebs aging well" thread. This is from 2012.

I've started reawatching S1. I think it would have been better to balance the characters a bit more. Through the first 5 episodes, you barely see Kenny or Ginger, but I'm pretty sick of watching Michele Lee. Did she have a clause that required she be in every scene?

As CMcC notes, the character of Laura is a mess. In the 2nd episode, she sleeps with a guy in an effort to advance her husband's career, but nothing ever comes of it. Then in E05 where Laura gets raped, she goes from screaming at her husband, to doing exactly what she's told to do, then getting raped, lying about it, letting her rapist get away with it, then in the last scene they set her up to be taking the very same steps that got her raped to begin with. Has she learned nothing? It was all over the place.

What was the Knots parts? Is that how JR tied his brother up?

Miss Ellie bought Val and Gary the house in California after they re-married. Some of the original stories of KL were almost Beverly Hillbillies like: Val goes nuts seeing the ocean. She didn't know there was a West Coast with an ocean. Gary has to get a job and his education level is below high school graduate.

I thought Val and the ocean thing was very sweet.

For me, Knot's really separated itself from other Prime time soaps in Season 4 and went thru the stratosphere. Ciji's murder did a great job of involving all the major characters while eliminating those that, I believe, didn't quite gel and/or played out, (I barely missed Ginger and Kenny).

It was scintillating straight thru the season following Donna Mills' exit, (season 12?). But it wasn't Mills' exit that hurt it, it was a change of showrunner and writers. They brought in people who obviously were not familiar with the series, probably just read a 3-paragraph synopsis of the past few seasons, and started with that. The writing was just hideous!

LOL, R405. Val didn't "go nuts" because she didn't know the West Coast had an ocean.

She had never seen the ocean before and wanted to touch it. Her romp through the surf with Gary and Lucy is a character -defining moment for her. From that point on, the shy country mouse became a California girl. She had found her home.

Well the scene where Val explained to Laura and Ginger she made her own butter with a churn was sure telling about what a hillbilly she was. Val and Gary also bathed in a barrel in the garage.

That was Abby and Richard, R409. And that was the hot tub by the pool.

Donna Mills said everyone thought the Abby/Richard hub tub scene was hot. She said the real reason she looked in ecstasy was really because it was freezing!

I could never stand Richard. Hated when Karen would defend and coddle him. He was a jerk most of the time (especially towards Laura). Didn't miss him at all when he left.

But R411, every soap need a jerk or two - it's what creates drama. I didn't miss Richard either after he left, but true to Knots' form, he did return for the wake held at Greg's for Laura. In the realm of spin-offs of the program, I wonder what sort of a father Richard was to the boys he raised after Laura's death.

John Pleshette was a good actor who brought some nuance and humanity to the role. Constance was great too, and I thought their relationship was the most complex and interesting.

I appreciate Pleshette more in retrospect, too, R413. He was a fine actor playing a small, insecure, unattractive man, and it had to be a thankless task. Unfortunately, he wasn't charismatic enough to be the sexy villain the show needed as it evolved, and that's where Greg Sumner came in.

Pleshette did write and direct a couple of episodes after he left, though was no fan of Lechowick and Latham.

And R412, I think Richard was probably a very attentive and loving father to his sons, since he always had been. Had KNOTS been rebooted, it would've been an interesting idea to have one of his boys return as a hotter version of Richard, but with his father's same weaknesses.

Was he related to Suzanne?

In fact, yes, R4156. They were cousins.

While Pleshette and Don Murray were good actors, I thought Kevin Dobson and William Devane were much better fits for the show. While Mack and Greg could be annoying jerks, you got why they were how they were. Plus both of them managed to have great chemistry with most of the rest of the cast they had scenes with.

Agree, while Richard was always intended to be the overbearing, pain-in-the-ass of the neighborhood (with possibly some serious mental health issues), he always was a well-intentioned dad. They even made a point of Laura observing that in some scenes. I remember a couple of scenes between him and his son before Richard splits town in the middle of the night, and you got the sense that he thought the kids would be better off with his crazy ass out of the picture. And while I never liked Richard, Pleshette did a great job in the role, and he was always an interesting character, though unlikable.

I didn't dislike Mack, but I always found him a bit *too* much. Too bombastic. A little of him went a long way.

Sumner was fine a character, but I never got Devane as sex symbol because he has a giant muppet face.

Devane wasn't conventionally handsome or didn't have a ripped body, but he did have some sex appeal and charisma. Greg was rich and powerful, which seems to attract women. So you got why younger, attractive women like Paige and Linda would give it up to him.

Why didn't they bring Lucy to Knots full time?

R420 - I am sure that she refused to leave a hot show for one. But no loss; Dallas ran her off after a few seasons anyway. She was an annoying character anyway.

She wanted to, but Gary talked her out of it, R420

DALLAS was a worldwide sensation when KNOTS was introduced. Charlene Tilton would've been a fool to jump ship, but she wasn't asked, anyway; Joan Van Ark did NOT like the idea of Val having a grown daughter.

The one potentially great crossover that KNOTS overlooked was Miss Ellie. It would've been fabulous to watch powerhouses Barbara Bel Geddes and Julie Harris sharing a scene as in-laws.

Yes, it would've been fun to watch Barbie and Julie going at it.

JVA didn't want Tilton on Knots because it 'aged' her to the the mother of a twenty something. The fact that Lucy was barely mentioned - if at all - after her lone KL ep was very telling. There was a rumour after Charlene was fired from Dallas in 85 she would go to Knots but JVA put her foot down.

I think it was mostly David Jacobs' doing. He hated the Dallas crossovers. He said they never worked for him because the Dallas characters were larger than life, and he regretted doing them. I think that's why Lucy was never brought back. The Kristen episode of Knots was fun but bizarre too.

[quote]JVA didn't want Tilton on Knots because it 'aged' her to the the mother of a twenty something.

Oh, sure. But it was fine for me to have kids that age? Whatta cunt.

I never thought Tilton was much of an actress, so didn't really mind that Lucy never showed up again.

I can't imagine Lucy 'working' on Knots. The early Dallas crossovers -- actually they went on as late as S4 -- were always clunky.

[quote]I can't imagine Lucy 'working' on Knots.

She wanted to but Gary talked her out of it.

Claudia Lonow said she wanted to bang Michael Sabatino, but didn't because he was married. Can't blame her for wanting to though, he was hot back then..

I LOVED the show for not firing Larry Reily when it was blatantly obvious he had HIV. Many shows would have dumped him straight away but the fact they let me end his contract as he, literally wasted away was classy as fuck.

I adored Constance so SO much, she just played Laura so truthfully and with a wry smile and twinkle. Her leaving was so sudden and awful, and then she got the stunning two part funeral episodes which were just brilliant.

Loved 'Knots', love this thread, SOOOO many memories

Larry Kasha and Michael Filerman were only 2 of the openly gay producers of KNOTS, R432.

You can be sure they were not going to punish an actor suffering from AIDS.

Everyone made a big deal over Linda Evans and her one little kiss with Rock Hudson. Why was no one worrying about Lynne Moody, who probably had countless kissing scenes with Larry Riley? Even though it was a couple of years later than Rock/Linda, there was still a lot of ignorance and paranoia out there while Lynne and Larry were on Knots.

The scene where Jill made Val swallow the pills was one of the tightest in TV history.

Lynne Moody left before he started looking really bad. Larry Riley was handsome only a few years before joining Knots. He seemed sweaty often even early in his run on the show. Guess that could've been from his drug habit too though.

Supposedly they killed off Moody's character because she complained in TV Guide about not having much to do. During season 10, they were toying with Patricia having an affair with Gary (they even had her giving longing looks at him in one episode) but nixed the storyline.

Larry Riley in 1985. He looked like he aged 10+ years in the space of 3 years in joining Knots. He was 7 years younger than Lynne Moody, but looked older than her while on the show.

He was obviously poz when he joined the show, just from doing the math from when he came down with full-blown AIDS. How would the show have been able to insure him? Unless he didn't know himself, or had been tested anonymously with no insurance record of testing or treatment.

In 1985, there was a paucity of information about the mysterious disease. Testing for the virus was just beginning. Not many people were tested yet.

I always think Lynne Moody died, but then I rèalize im getting her confused with Lynne Thigpen.

Wasn't Julia Roberts in a movie about and/or called Larry Riley?

Yes, Rose, that’s exactly it.

In case anyone is interested there is now a thread about those mean Ewings back in Texas.

Whose idea was it to kill off Ciji? Did Lisa want to leave? If it was the writers it was a major mistake. Everyone I know loved her and was devastated, in that soap opera fan way, when she was killed. It was one fuck of a story though. Especially the way the panned over her body on the season cliff hanger.

It was the writers, r444. At least it wasn't Lisa's choice. See the interview with her at R402.

R445 So, they killed Cujo and then her identical cousin arrived?

One of the refreshing aspects of Knots is that as a series it was never afraid to off popular characters after they ran their course (and not in the ridiculous Dynasty Moldavian wedding sort of way). Good or bad, it was never predicable and almost always interesting (minus those tragic final seasons).

Yeah I'll give it to them. I loved Ciji and hated to see her go but it was one of the best nighttime soap stories.

Her hair should have gotten an Emmy

I loved Lisa Hartman and the second-wave media blitz announcing her return as a different character with the same initials - which was huge - was what hooked me into the show.

R450 That is how to pose on a red carpet. No shoes necessary.

Ciji was murdered. Then, IIRC, Abby noticed Cathy Geary in an airport and.recognized her resemblance to Ciji. So she paid her to come to Knots and "pre-occupy" Gary while Abby was doing some shady stuff with his business holdings. Basically, she knew Gary would lose it once he saw someone looking so much like Ciji that his mind wouldn't be on business dealings, allowing Abby to do her thing. I know that secret didn't initially come out, but I can't remember if Cathy ended up spilling the beans, or if someone found out and squealed on Abby. (Laura? Olivia?)

I always screw up the spelling: is it Constance McPushedInFace or Constance McFacePushedIn?

MIchele Lee and Sandra Bernhard spending MLK day together in LA

Too bad Cathy didn't seem to click as well with viewers than Ciji did. She lasted 3 seasons as Cathy, but was written out with little fanfare. Her last storyline with Ben was terrible.

And speaking of Ben, they sure did a hack job on his character. That Jean Hackney storyline was abysmal and actress who played her was terrible and also homely looking.

I started loving Doug Sheehan on General Hospital. Even though he is a shit boring actor. I just loved looking at him. Best hair ever. If I could catalog shop for a boyfriend he would have looked like Doug.

Al) Trying to pass yourself off as God? That's it! I'm telling on you. Where is he?

Sidney the Angel) No, no! You mustn't disturb God! He's in his quarters watching Knots Landing.

Al) Huh. I always wondered why that show was never cancelled.

I'm always surprised Ted Shackleford did so well as to get a starring role on Knots Landing, because he was not traditionally handsome in the way most soap opera leading men were in the 70s and early 80s. But he had a great body, and so he was much sexier than the usual pretty boys.

I love that Donna Mills did a video called "The Eyes Have It" where she showed women how to oput on eye makeup the way she did--as it that were desirable.

It always makes me think now of the ad that Ellen did years later.

My cousin named her daughter Courtney Grace in the late 80s so she could call her "Ciji."

Fortunately she never actually called her that after the first year, and so the daughter has always been called just Courtney--not a great name, but far less tacky than Ciji.

Abby: Olivia, something terrible's happened.

Olivia: What happened, did you lose your eye makeup?

I also liked the scene where Greg tried catching Abby in the shower without her eye makeup on. Only to find her totally made up, blinking her immaculately made up eyes at him.

R456, Doug was cast on GH because he embodied the 'boring' good guy look (who was still extremely handsome).

Had Ricky Dean Anderson stayed on as Jeff, Annie would have stood at the altar about to marry Joe and recited her vows as such: "I, Anne, take thee Jeff...I mean..."

Cut to Joe at the Campus Disco getting drunk and being paired with someone else.

Time is one harsh mistress.

Doug Sheehan looks like Santa Claus now.

R437, the poor Williams family.

I can't believe if they'd gone to Constance and said okay, here's what we're paying these three actors who'll be the Williams family. If you take this, you'll stay and we won't bring them on.

I knew in the first scene Lynne was in that the family was in witness relocation because 'Pat's' speech to Karen about her family background was so rehearsed; I don't mean Lynne sounded rehearsed - Pat/Samantha did.

But then she asked to leave due to lack of story and then poor Larry became ill. There was an explanation saying Julie had gone off to stay with relatives. HOW? They were in witness relocation!

This was likely a Lynn Latham story; she did witness relocation with the character of Matt on Port Charles even tho in the premiere he was on the phone with his parents.

That last season with Doug Sheehan looked like an afterthought for Ben. He pretty much had been written out the season before already when he was going "on tour" with Cathy. And then he came back, and was taken back by Val like nothing had happened. And then this assassination story started out of the blue. It looked like contract negotiations had been surprisingly successful and now the man needed something to do before he would really leave the show.

Doug Sheehan will be 70 in April.

There’s a speedo pic of him if you scroll down the page.

I thought Doug was kind of dull as Ben, but that was due to the writing, IMO. Dealing with hillbilly Val and her nutty family, he just would give into them all the time. Especially on the paternity issue of "maaahh baaaay-beeeez".

But Doug as Joe Kelly on GH was more interesting to me, especially during the whole Diana Taylor murder, when he's investigating Heather for the murder, but starting to fall for her.

He was just dreamy as fuck

Sheehan was getting fat on KL.

[quote]Sheehan was getting fat on KL.

Some of us waited to get fat until after we were on the show.

The only redeeming moment about Ben losing it storyline in Season 8 was when he mistakenly grabs Lilimae, thinking she was Jean Hackney, and puts her in a headlock. It was hilarious.

Ben, please remember me to Valene.

This thread is good. It really is. If I were rating it one the Abby scale (Abby being a ten) I'd give it a... six -- which is very good, considering its esotericty and lack of YouTube videos.

Can someone start a Flamingo Road thread?

I don't think they ever revealed what happened to Ben, did they? Having him (or even better, Laura) return would've made the Reunion Mini Series much better than the mostly crappy stuff they actually came up with.

Laura should've been revealed as having survived her brain tumor and taking up with Cathy Geary.

Ben was a footnote character on Knots. I doubt he's remembered much by casual viewers. The main faces of Knots were Gary, Valene, Abby, Mack, Karen, Greg, and Paige, with maybe Laura, Cathy/Ciji, and Lillimae as second-tier faces.

Ben was ultimately a road block for the inevitable Gary and Val getting back together (like Jill and Danny Waleska also). They managed to hold it off for almost a decade though.

R474 LOL!!

[quote]Ben was a footnote character on Knots. I doubt he's remembered much by casual viewers. The main faces of Knots were Gary, Valene, Abby, Mack, Karen, Greg, and Paige, with maybe Laura, Cathy/Ciji, and Lillimae as second-tier faces.

Your mother sucks cocks in hell.

On all my favorite shows I always have one little snippet that I love the most. For Knots Landing it is when Val lays into Karen for not telling her that Laura was going to die when she told everyone else. Val usually bugged me but for that two minutes I finally got Val. I loved her. "SHE WAS MY FRIEND TOO!"

Why weren't Kenny or Ginger or Cathy at Laura's memorial?

And the first Mrs. Ewing? She never goes away.

John Pleshette was like a demented Woody Allen type on the show. I remember him trying to act butch at times but just flopping.

R483 Nobody cared for Kenny or Ginger. Cathy? The actress would have come back as a third character,no?

R467 ON GH they were able to explore the nuances of certain characters because of the number of episodes per year. More than ten times the number of episodes that Knot Landing had per year.

Claudia Lonow reminded me a bit of Mack Phillips as Julie on ODAAT.

ODAAT?

One Day at a Time -- the much mocked '70s sitcom.

BTW, Michelle said she didn't believe Mack's incest story.

Diana had a very slapable face.

The residents of KL should have been lining up to do this to Diana.

Knots Landing rose and fell with Abby.

True, R494.

R494 - very true. I have said basically the same up-thread. Abby was everything for this show - period.

While I agree that Abby was a big part in what made the show become successful, I still enjoyed the show quite a bit after her departure. Her character had become stale (more the writers fault than Mills') The show changed, but it still felt like Knots Landing.

I kinda, only kinda, agree. I, too, thought that KL had lost its way a bit after Mills had left. It was a period where they tried a lot of new things. It wasn't just Abby being gone. They also tried to leave behind the big-corporate office world of the Sumner group or at least dial down the amount of story lines in that office building and go back to smaller stories. There were more changes going on than just Abby leaving. Some things worked, lots of things didn't work. Abby was certainly the big adversary that a show needs and all of a sudden this show no longer had. Greg's sister, Linda Fairgate or Ann Matheson - while all great characters - didn't have the heft as characters to drive overarching story lines that made a season. I'd say the problem wasn't so much that Abby in particular was missing, but a great foe in general. As an ensemble show though I'd say that KL was much better suited to replace the big villain than any other soap of that period, like Dallas, Dynasty or Falcon Crest.

KNOTS was still well-written and watchable post-Abby, but it became a far more plot-driven show, relying on surprise twists and cliffhangers.

Kathleen Noone and Michelle Phillips really were superb villains, but they tended to be islanded in their own stories and didn't have history with most of the cast. Whereas, Abby had tangled with almost everyone on the canvas and had a past with anyone in her orbit.

Abby was also almost every straight man's fantasy of sexy during the 1980's which added to her appeal and POWER in the plot. You really can't say that about any of her replacements.

Did you really have to post that current picture of Doug?

Abby was there for the fun soapy years, as soon as she left the show suddenly changed. It became less soapy and more... episodic, preachy, self-aware, and "funny".

John Pleshette said in an interview a few years back that the show became more and more tawdry as the seasons went on, and I think that's an apt description. I much enjoyed the first 4 or 5 seasons. The baby switch was interesting, but the show definitely peaked once that climaxed.

I loved the tawdriness.

I didn't start watching the show until Lisa Hartman's second time around as Cathy Geary.

She was to Knots Landing what Heather Locklear was to Dynasty and Melrose Place.

How did the original cast members feel about her double casting, and the major publicity that surrounded her return to the show?

When did Knots jump the shark? Dallas did with the dream season, Dynasty with Moldavia. Falcon Crest is a little blurrier...maybe around season 5 when the Nazis came to Tuscany Valley?

KNOTS never really jumped the shark. There's no defining moment when it all went downhill, but the first half of the notoriously awful 13th season is when it went to shit.

The one scene that sticks in my mind from being a small child, was when Karen's stalker sent her a rose box full of snakes. Plus, I could never imagine anyone being mean to Saint Karen, it upset me alot, because she was such a nice person.

R506 - I am beating a dead horse here, but I would say that the season 10 finale was the turning point - as that was when Abby left (she actually departed in the first half of a two part finale). The show never recovered.

I don't think it ever really fully jumped the shark either. It's lowest point was the first half of season 13 as R507 said was pretty bad for the most part, but they recovered for the second half of the season and got back on track.

Knots had a very devoted fan base too, and while it never quite reached the heights of the ratings of the other primetime soaps, it remained fairly steady and the lowest it ever dropped was to #47 during season 13. The last season finished at #42. The others plunged big time during their latter seasons. Dallas' last season finished at #61, Dynasty's last season finished at #69, and Falcon Crest's last season finished at #81.

Was Falcon Crest ever that popular? When I think of 80's prime-time soaps, the big three (Dallas, Dynasty, Knots Landing) immediately come to mind - but never Falcon Crest. Of course I knew that it existed, but I never heard anyone talking about the show.

R511 Falcon Crest was pretty popular early in it's run, in fact it made in the top 10 in ratings for 3 seasons (#7 at it's highest). The highest Knots got was #9 (for season 6).

I could never get into it. It wasn't as flashy as Dallas or Dynasty, or as well written and acted as Knots overall, so that's probably why its mostly forgotten. I don't think it even got much of a syndication run either except on Soap Net.

See I always thank of Falcon Crest along with the others, because my family loved it. Remember it aired on Friday, for most of its run, right after Dallas, which helped grease the ratings. Because, many like my family watched both every week. Personally, I liked FC a lot more that Dynasty. If I had to rank the primetime soaps for me it would be in order Dallas, Knots, Falcon Crest, Flamingo Road, Dynasty, The Colbys, then the rest.

Outside of Joan Collins and Stephanie Beachum, Dynasty and The Colby's were kind of shit.

Falcon Crest's first few seasons were a combo of Dallas and Knots, and was pretty good. It went off the rails by season 4 and 5 when it became very campy and they broke up Chase and Maggie, the lynch pin couple and moral center. The last season with Gregory Harrison was just a WTF!

That's the funny think about Falcon Crest. A lot of good shows, especially soaps, take a while to get. They usually don't get really good until about the third season. Falcon Crest's best season was the first one.

Another soap that I loved, but was unfortunately on for only one season, was Emerald Point N.A.S. Had a great cast. Including a bitchy Susan Dey and a fresh from General Hospital Richard Dean Anderson. On the Abby scale it was a 7.

Anyone remember Berrenger's? It was essentially a mash-up of Dallas/Dynasty/FC set in a department store. It was fun and stupid and campy, but aired on Saturday nights at 10, and nobody was watching.

FC was great, I agree re. the Giobertis because they destroyed those characters. I wasn't thrilled when they replaced Jamie Rose (who played the Gioberti daughter) either.

Berrengers was fucking great. Paper Dolls was shit but was SO FUN TO WATCH. I wish Bare Essence lasted longer simply because I was routing for Genie Francis. I liked that CPW show too.

The problem is that Berrengers was on NBC, they really kept trying, but for some reason they just couldn't launch a successful primetime soap in the 1980's, even though they kept trying Berrengers, The Yellow Rose, Flamingo Road, Bare Essence, etc...

The current issue of "Watch" magazine has an article about "Knots Landing."

Knots never jumped the shark per se; it did go downhill but there wasn't any one big, defining moment that you tie it to.

However, when Danny Waleska appears and Donna Mills leaves I check out there. Though I liked the second half of S13 and S14.

I wonder how KL came to life. Usually, there is a huge hit that somebody wants to replicate. But I don't see that with KL. KL was in planning stage during Dallas' first full season, the one after the mini series. At that point Dallas was hardly a huge success, far from it. And KL was hardly influenced by Dallas. The narrative was completely different, just one and a half character came from the original show which had hardly left a mark on Dallas. I'm calling Gary half a character because the first actor playing Gary was quite different from Shakelford's. The could have called KL a unique show or a spin off of any other soap. So I wonder why they allowed David Jacobs to connect KL with Dallas. I do understand that KL was Jacobs' original concept but I still don't understand why they had a Dallas spin off before it had become a success.

R523, David Jacobs created KNOTS long before DALLAS, but CBS wasn't interested and asked him to develop a sprawling epic about a rich, feuding southwestern family, and so he did. When DALLAS became a hit and CBS asked for a spinoff. Jacobs made two of his characters Ewings and used them as the gateway to the new show.

Yes, the two shows were very distinct in style, pacing and content. And while Gary and Val always fit nicely into DALLAS, the DALLAS characters never felt right on KNOTS. It was hard to believe that tycoon JR would have the slightest bit of interest in California suburbanites.

David Jacobs hated the crossovers, but they were fun to watch, like different worlds colliding. I thought it was fun to see JR in Knots, and he had really good chemistry with Michele Lee and Donna Mills.

I got tired of JR sooner than most (never was a big Dallas fan in general), but he did have chemistry with most of the people he had scenes with on Dallas and Knots.

I don't think Knots ever became part of the cultural landscape like Dallas and Dynasty did, thus no interest in a reboot. Dallas and Dynasty were larger than life and sweeping, while the description I heard a reviewer offer about Knots was spot on: .it's as if someone decided to do a P&G soap in prime time. Pretty accurate.

Oh yes, Hagman's scenes with both Donna Mills and Michele Lee were gold. Karen always had JR's number, and he knew it.

I always though Larry Hagman had a huge cock.

Ask Maj

I read in an issue of Soap Opera Digest that the producers wanted an Gary/Val/Anne triangle, but Michelle Phillips nixed it, saying she didn't want Anne to just be a gold-digger. That would've gave Gary and Val something to do, they seemed like afterthoughts at times later on in the series.

Gary and Anne had scenes and it looked like they were moving in that direction, but Shackelford and Phillips had zero chemistry. I suspect that's why that relationship was abandoned, and not because Phillips rejected it. I doubt an expendable nobody like Phillips had an story veto power.

I wonder why at the time Michelle Phillips and Joan Van Ark didn't do a tastefully done nude pictorial together...

Too damn old ! ^

Not now, R534 back then...nothing vulgar, certainly no beaver something akin to what the Landers sisters did, but maybe with a little nipple action.

Well they did do the storyline where Anne posed nude for some magazine.

Plus Playboy sure has done a plenty of stars past their prime pictorials.

It always bothered me that they had Gary lose the ranch and ended up being pretty much the financial loser he was at the beginning of the show. I found that really depressing. I always suspected that happened for budget reasons because they couldn't afford lots of outdoor filming, including royalties to the property owners, anymore at the end. Falcon Crest had the same problem when they couldn't afford filming in Nappa anymore.

Napa! Not Nappa goddamn you!

Great photo at R537. When did Joan Van Ark play the sweet transvestite in the Rocky Horror Show?

A Gary/Val/Anne triangle would've been too similar to Gary/Val/ Anne.

And by the time Anne was on full-time, Gary and Val had already had too many interlopers and that story had been done to death.

Now, it would have been interesting to see Anne succeed in stealing Mack from Karen. When the show played with that possibility in1986-87, it was riveting.

* meant to say "too similar to Gary/Val/ABBY"

I know Michele Lee and Donna Mills both had notable careers before KL, in the legitimate theatre and cinema, respectively, but what about Joan Van Ark? I know that KL was also one of Constance McCashin's first (and last) jobs in showbiz, but was JVA already a name before KL?

JVL did a lot of guest starring roles on crap like Wonder Woman and Rhoda pre-Knots. She played Joe's ex-wife on Rhoda. She's a good actress, but can be very OTT if not reined in. Same with Michele Lee. Constance is a very good, earthy actress, but I think she realized that roles for 40-ish women were not plentiful, so she carved out a new career for herself instead of desperately trying to appear young like JVA.

Joan wasn't as well known as Michele before Knots, but she did work a lot and received praise for her work. She starred in several notable theater productions and got a Tony Nomination and a Theatre World Award. Her TV work before Knots...not so much. She was on a few short lived sitcoms also.

Constance had done theater work (mostly regional stuff though) and some TV work also, so she wasn't a total unknown before Knots. Her work had caught David Jacobs eye. I don't think she had it instilled in her like Michele, Joan and Donna to spend their entire lives in showbiz. She had worked in other areas before her acting career took off, like working with special needs children. After Knots, I don't think she wanted to put up with the BS that comes with the business anymore and mostly did small parts in her husbands movies and such.

Wasn't JvA one of the last actors that had a studio contract?

Yes, Joan was contracted to Universal Studios in the first half of the 70s.

R546 JVA was a regular on Days of Our Lives for two years (1970-1972) , she played model Janeane Whitney, who was the romantic interest of Mickey Horton before Maggie

She signed a contract with Universal in 1972 and promptly starred in FROGS!

Kim Lankford was the weakest of the five leading ladies those early seasons, but she did have a likeable, relatable quality about her. Maybe I'm dreaming this, but weren't there plans to reintroduce Ginger had Knots gone another season?

R550 they wanted to bring her back for season 14, Ann Marcus, who was showrunner for season 3 had returned towards the end if season 13 and all of season 14, she mapped out a storyline where a divorced Ginger comes back with Erin Molly, her child and Karen's God daughter, Val's funeral and stays with Karen and Mac and she falls for Greg Sumner and Greg takes a big interest, a father figure role in Erin Molly because he's trying to create the relationship with her that he didn't have with his own child Meg

It was supposed to be an 8 episode, with the possibility of more, contract type of thing but Knots producers got the severely cut budget that CBS gave them for the final season and they couldn't make it work

Val's funeral?

Yes, Val was presumed dead in a dramatic car accident in S14 before it was revealed at the end of the season that she was actually alive.

i know i stuck with it til the end out of sheer loyalty but i have zero memory of that. of course it's almost 26 years ago

JVA picked a weird time to leave the show. Ann Marcus would've probably given her good stuff to do. I think she made the decision to leave before Marcus was hired, though. Plus she seemed to think the pilot she had (Spin Doctors) was going to get picked up, but it didn't. She probably knew Knots probably just had a season or two left anyway since the budget was cut so much.

Was there any woman on that show who didn't want to fuck old ugly ass Greg Sumner?

What was his appeal?

JVA guest starred on just about every episodic show on TV before Knots. She was very well known - better known in tv circles than Michele Lee.

Her Days stint was about 9 mos - and she was involved with Bill, not Mickey Horton. I think she was a barfly at Sergio's (not yet Doug;s Place).

I liked when Valene turned evil and Gary had to team up with Wonder Woman to thwart her devious plan.

JVA said this was her favorite scene she did on Knots. It did show how koo koo Val was at the time.

Presumably JVA left because they couldn't afford to pay her.

Val had become so tiresome anyway.

Joan Van Ark is at Chiller Theatre in NJ in April. Have to get her to sign my "Frogs" bluray.

Joan Van Ark really was in a bunch of guest starring roles in various TV shows throughout the 1970s. I even remember her in an episode of The Odd Couple as a drunk tennis pro.

I seem to remember that Joan Van Ark left Knots because she knew it was on its last legs and she had a TV pilot she shot. She thought the pilot would get picked up, but it wasn't. She had contemplated leaving two years before she actually did, but producers gave her perks like directing episodes that enticed her to stay.

I'd imagine after 13 years, it's nice to move on. Just last year, I moved on to a new job after 14 years at the same place. It was nice to have a new challenge and reinvigorated my enthusiasm for my career. Lucky for me I didn't have Joan's bad luck of the equivalent of a canceled pilot!

R559, JVA is brilliant in that scene, and she was in all of season 6, when Val's babies were stolen and she went off the deep end.

The show was always in good hands when Lee, Van Ark or Mills held center stage.

Joan did not like Lynn Latham and Bernard Lechowick, the executive producers for most of KNOTS' middle years, and it was mutual. They began writing Val as a shrill, neurotic, needy mess and JVA rightly called them out for turning the once-plucky heroine into "the village idiot."

When Val hit her head and began acting completely bonkers - going as far as stir-frying her kids' pet crabs - Van Ark had had enough and did not renew her contract.

R564 - very interesting intel, thanks! I loved crazy Val; she was so endearing no matter what kooky crisis she was thrown into.

Laura driving herself to a hospice to die and leaving her baby behind still makes me tear up. I always thought Constance and Devane were the best actors on the show.

In terms of technique, Julie Harris and JvA were probably the best actors. They never hit a false note in their performances. Constance was the deepest and most nuanced actress of all the women. I like Michele Lee, but she can be OTT and is best in smaller doses. I think she was quite good the first few seasons, especially in season3 when Karen was dealing with the aftermath of Sid's death, but she really needed to be reined in as the scope of the show and its stories grew more and more larger than life.

R567 Maybe I just have a crazy family but people acting OTT, seem so natural to me, because that is how my relatives all behave, especially the women. Karen always seemed like she could be my Aunt or a cousin.

It's not that Constance was the best actress it's that she got the best role on the show. Plus she knew how to leave. It also helped that they made her leaving the biggest story she had. I think anyone who wrote for her loved that character.

....yet Abby was the one who everyone came back week after week to see. How could you not? Without her, Knots was pretty dull and dreary. Honestly, all of the female leads were great. The male leads on the other hand..

I said best. Not most popular. Abby was my absolute favorite. As I said the show rose and fell with Abby. I can admit though that Laura was the best, most solidly written character.

All soaps, whether daytime or primetime, need a villain. Abby was a great female villain. She shook up the show and came between the main couple, Gary and Val. Dynasty would copy this and bring in Joan Collins. Although Alexis never broke up Blake and Krystle, she drove a wedge between them many times and her machinations made her the show's villain. Both characters lit a spark in both shows. Surprisingly Knots still did OK after Abby left. Granted it was not the same, but the show managed to survive and was pretty good at adding new characters.

Like probably most fans, Seasons 4 and 5 are my favorites. Season 4 was the who-killed-Ciji season. Season 5 was great at tying together all the disparate storylines into the finale where all the characters come together. Primetime soaps were so good in the 1980s. I wish they could come up with a modern twist on them that works in today's world.

I don't think Alexis was based on Abby. Knots wasn't on anyone's radar when Joan joined Dynasty. However, AS WITH Abby, she was brought on to be the female J.R. Ewing.

I didn't say Alexis was based on Abby, just that Dynasty copied bringing in a female villain. Whether that was an intentional or unintentional copycat move, I really don't know.

I find it harder to pick a favorite season of KNOTS than I do of DALLAS ('85-'85) or DYNASTY (S5) but... at a push I'll say S9.

Disagree that Constance was the show's best actress. She couldn't handle highly dramatic scenes and had a penchant for simply reciting her lines. And in a melodrama, an actress needs to know how to chew scenery when necessary.

Constance did, however, know how how to toss off a dry, witty rejoinder and the show missed her Greek chorus when she left.

I find her best season to be season five, after Richard left and Laura temporarily went to the dark side by joining forces with Abby in order to secure her kids' financial future. Laura shined as an independent woman.

They had another Knots reunion a little earlier this year with Michele, Kevin, Joan, Ted, Donna, William and David Jacobs.

R577 The rest of them aren't bad, but dammit Joan looks like a corpse laid out in a cut rate funeral home.

SWALLOW THE PILLS VAL! Was the best episode. One of the most memorable episodes of television ever. One of the best parts was the next season when that old lady went up to Jill and hissed "I know what you did".

someone sells seasons 3-8 on Ebay. $130.00. I'm really thinking of buying it but I don't know how trustworthy it would be.

R579 Absolutely! "POOR VAL!"

R578 I think poor Joan doesn't have much choice but to cake on make-up. Several years ago, she caught looking very scary in public. Her skin looked blue in some areas!

R579 That was an amazing episode. Teri Austin was great in that episode. She didn't really register much with me (except when her Canadian accent often came though! ha) until she started going crazy over the course of Season 9 and her continued crazy antics that continued into Season 10. I think Peter's death started her decline into craziness. It coming to a head at Laura's funeral. Abby planted the seed in her brain that Val was never going to be out of Gary's life, she found Peter's urn on the table and stole it put it in her purse, then hit an remorseful Paige (who accidently killed Peter) in the back with it! She dumped the ashes on top of the mountain where she fell down the hill while arguing with Peter the season before and miscarried Gary's baby and nearly died. Another things that probably led to her psychotic break.

all these years later it still brings you to the edge of your seat. I remember watching this with my older sister. Jeez we were actually screaming at the tv. I HAVEN'T GOT ALL NIGHT.

NEWSFLASH - - a few weeks ago someone on this thread kindly told me I could watch Knots Landing on Daily Motion. I joyfully enjoyed watching Ava Gardner come to town. I cheered when Val got her Twins back....I loved watching Micheal taking off his shirt and bedding Paige.....But THEN the episodes were pulled. Only a handful remain....Booooo!!!!!

R584 This channel on DM has most, if not all of the episodes from Season 9, Episode 24 to the Series Finale. Think this is a little bit after you got up to watching though.

Damn! Kevin Dobson looks good in that reunion pic! I love Don Murray but I'm glad he left the show early because Sid's death created so many interesting storylines.

More than any other house (even Cameron Diaz's in THE HOLIDAY) I dream of living in Abby's season eight to season ten beach house.

inuwannu

LOL R588!

Take the PILLS, CUNT!!!

splash

Here's the season 9 finale episode where Jill makes Val try and kill herself. SWALLOW!

"Poor Val. Poor Val isn't responsible for the way she feels, or the way she acts, or the way she is. You can't blame poor Val because, she's "Poor Val." She can't help being a little bit crazy."

I heard every word you sad.

Jill was such a nothing of a character and actress until the poor Val episode. I was like holy shit they were wasting her.

I am not poor Val! Poor Val! Poor Val! Because from now on it's going to be poor Jill.

R587, I believe that Abby's beach house was the Adamson House in Malibu. It really is a gorgeous place - with quite a Malibu history.

The website for the house above:

Don Murray nearing 90, looked really good in the Showtime Twin Peaks re-boot, even though that re-boot was overall horrible.

the late Ann Marcus, who first wrote Val/Gary/Abby was brought back in season 13 to get the show back on track; first thing she did was have Paige get shot; everyone gathers at the hospital. Karen tells Ann that her first husband Sid died in a hospital.

It felt like the show was back on track at that point.

Remember how big Frank's glasses were?

Thread's almost full.

Gary I'm dying. Iwanknitgonnatelnbody.