British Royal Family Part 11: general gossip and information

How is the Queen's health this Christmas? Has she cut back from the usual round of appearances she's expected to make? Is the BRF's job at Christmas primarily to attend church and/or give a speech, or is more involved? TIA!

[quote]A cozy Christmas to you all.

A cozy Xmas to those of you who celebrate it is far more considerate.

Aren't you lovely r2? Aren't you far, far, far more considerate than anyone else on earth? Yes, you are! How silly and totally inconsiderate of me. Did posting that make you feel good? Superior? Intelligent? I hope so. Tired of your knives. Bored at you always having a go at me. But you do you. X marks the spot and all that.

R2 are you a shop bottom by any chance? The word is Christmas, Xmas is only seen on shop windows.

Xmas is a standard usage from way back. My grandmother wrote it in all of her Christmas cards.

^^^Then she was an uneducated person too.

Is it true that the Queen banned the use of tampons at Sandringham?

Yes, I'm sure the entire era we grew up in was "uneducated" by your exacting standards, twat at r6, but Xmas was indeed used outside of shops.

This is my favorite picture from last Christmas. It looks likes Prince Phillip is staring down Prince Harry, and everyone who notices it is uncomfortable about, except Meghan who is in full "charm mode"

God, that poo hat. Every time I see it, I can’t quite believe it.

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Kate doing some last minute Christmas shopping.

It's nice to see the future Queen out with the crowds.

Future Queen? Let's not get ahead of ourselves, she's not even princess (of wales) yet.

A lot can happen between now and then. The night is still young and all that..

Outfit looks nice here though.

The Queen has a message for Meghan.

George looks constipated here.

For those of you who are not in London, here are the lights of Harrods department store. I don't think Dodi's father owns it anymore. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

An unusual outfit for a portrait.

The Queen of Tweed with Anne in a Beatles type cap.

The royal children are all lined up for a photo in Christmas 1969. Many cousins were born in the 1960's so I believe Christmas was at Windsor for some time.

Let me see if I can spot the kids (left to right): James Ogilvy, Lady Sarah Armstrong Jones (wearing a cape). Earl of St Andrews with his sister Lady Helen Windsor in front of him, Prince Andrew (head turned), Prince Edward in tweed, David Lord Linley (now Earl Snowden), little Marina Ogilvy and Charles and Anne.

Queen and Corgi. LOL

Al-Fayed sold Harrods in 2010, R18. Would love to spend Christmas in London! I've only ever been there in the summertime.

Yes, the horrific Dodi&Di statue/grotto was removed shortly after.

R24

Please tell me it was moved to Althorp!

Just a "normal" old lady walking her dogs in the country.

The tacky Dodi/Di statue was given back to Al-Fayed by the new owners of Harrods, in what was probably a bid to get the store's Royal warrants back.

Juicy Telegraph article with the details below:

A trio of jolly,

The conspiracy documentary on the death of Princess Di may or may not be full of shit, but it's an interesting watch.

Oh my goodness, someone in the DM comments actually declared that the OTHER girl is really singing "Santa Baby" but Meghan is lip-syncing. Those commenters seriously ARE ridiculous and are bending over backwards to avoid admitting that Meghan actually has a great voice.

R6 being critical of someone's education with an uneducated comment. Hilarious

X is from the Greek for Christ and has been used since the days of the early church. Chi Rho written as XP with the Christogram symbol is the abbreviation for Jesus Christ. Similarly, early Christians used the fish as a symbol because the letters of the word are an acrostic for Jesus Son of God. Xmas was just a ingroup notation that because popular outside that group.

Don't be fool by American evangelicals, Christmas isn't under attack.

The Queen DID NOT order anyone to do anything. Dimwit and Nutmeg OWN this mess and they'll have to clean it up themselves.

Nobody said Christmas was under attack r31, just that it’s tacky to use Xmas. Your little homily notwithstanding, only uneducated people don’t use the full word.

More than 2000 years of scholars have used the X for Christ in the catholic church and the Roman Catholic church. It may not be some people's preference, but it's not uneducated.

"Put the Christ back in Christmas" is a rallying cry of evangelical Americans who argue the Christmas and Christianity are under attack. That is the basis for the recent rejection of the term.

Just a little bit more education for the arbiter of style at R33 who seems to be doubling down on stupid.

I see the Hampton Court ghost is still on YouTube. Still very spooky - have a lovely time tomorrow

Meghan and her sister look very much alike (just like dad). Which means Sam would be much more attractive with darker hair instead of the brassy blonde.

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The 1980s were not kind to so many of us.

Samantha had dark hair around the time of Meghan and Harry's wedding. It didn't look more flattering. Maybe she'll get a professional makeover for her book tour.

Predictions for tomorrow? I hope George gets to do the walk this year.

Tomorrow should be fine, typical Sandringham Christmas church walk. TQ will likely ride in with Sophie in the car. Philip used to walk from the house, but perhaps this year he'll accept a ride, given his advanced age.

The Cambridges and Sussexes will be all smiles and congeniality. Cam and Charles in good mood and health. I wonder if the Snowdens and Chattos will do the walk this year, since I think they're at Sandringham? I don't think George is old enough yet to do the walk. Age ten or so seems to be the starting age for that. Anyone know at what age Louise began the walk?

Everyone here on the board have a wonderful holiday break. Will be here if any royal news breaks.

Sam wasnt a bad looking young gal. She clearly got the better legs.

Prediction:. There will be cradling.

She has the face of a drag queen R41

Cradling AND hand-holding r42. Must keep both hands occupied.

York’s Christmas Card

R45, It's so easy for me to criticize Prince Andrew, but he and Sarah Ferguson have been really devoted parents, and raised two really nice daughters. Neither young woman seems to have a mean bone in them. It's nice to see Jack joining the family this year. He's a cutie.

Was gonna say I don't think Cressida Bonas and Kate Middleton were a natural friend fit (both Cressida and Harry were said to be chronically immature at the time) but I did read that Bonas liked Carole Middleton, which I thought was an interesting detail.

Kate usually sticks with some variation of green or red. Maybe tomorrow we'll get blue or purple to change it up?

It would be great if Eugenie and Jack are there, too.

Geez, Prince Andrew really was smoking hot at one point. I remember when he was constantly compared to Robert Redford.

Thank you, r34.

Oh, god...bump cradling during the Christmas walk would just be too much. Last year, the two middle-aged couples walked side by side. (I'll bet that doesn't happen this year.) Also, last year, a lot of DM commenters were annoyed by Meagan's drama queening, as she appeared to panic over not knowing how to curtsey to the queen, and both Harry and his brother had to talk her through it.

I loved Kate's outfit last year, the bright tartan coat and the big furry hat, so festive.

If there is cradling I predict either Andrew, William, or The Queen herself will break Meghan's arm.

Was over on DM reading some article and that video of Sparkle at the fashion awards popped up, focusing on her doing the over and under cradling.

She looked ridiculous.

And, no, I don't think she's doing it to comfort the baby.

It's all to draw attention to herself.

Kate has a forest green Catherine Walker coat with a velvet collar that I adore. Hope she wears bright red today.

Kate looks so good and even Wills is looking better than ever these last months

Pics from this year's walk.

Is Kate just getting too thin again or is she looking that thin because she's walking next to that rolling butter churn aka The Duchess of Sussex?

Yes Kate looks too thin but MM looks very matronly in that coat and especially that hat.

These two feathers, supposedly used for adding height to tiny Meghan, look rather stupid. Ffs, this is not a fashion show, but attending mass. Get rid of the feathers and the fascinator would suit the occasion.

The coat would look nice without these buttons. And sorry, but the boots don't match the outfit at all.

At least there was no bump-cradling this time.

Speaking of the bump, despite being hidden by the coat and subdued by the dark colour, it's just HUGE.

Sorry, but something's not right with James, Prince Edward's son.

Is he somewhere on the spectrum?

R61 It has been observed that he has "behavior issues", possible code for autism. There are very few clips of him, period. Some where you can see him acting out, or Sophie having a careful word with him. His parents keep him quite close when he (rarely) appears in public. One hopes he may grow out of the more difficult parts, and / or he is getting an excellent therapeutic education.

Kat's red coat looks a match to the green one she wore recently. Black accessories would have worked better.

LOVE Eugenie's coat!!! And Bea is looking pretty great herself! The Queen is looking magnificent as usual. (Her coat is pretty stellar too.)

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[quote]Sorry, but something's not right with James, Prince Edward's son.

Or his sister, Louise.

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I think they did a wonderful job putting out a display of unity. Everyone has been waiting to confirm a conflict between the Royal couples, but they looked quite comfortable together. And I thought Bea and Eugenie both looked great, too. Meghan's curtsy was perfect this year. The Viscount Severn (Prince Edward's son) is just a little boy, who doesn't deserve a great deal of scrutiny. It's already been established that Lady Louise has been receiving treatment for astigmatism. She's already driving horse-drawn coaches, following the Duke of Edinburgh's lead, so it doesn't seem like there's anything really wrong with her. She's still growing into herself.

I like the Yorkies but the poor things just can not dress.

I think they both look great today, although Bea's coat looks a bit off-season.

I have seen worse on the York gals. They look good this year. Eug’s coat was flattering to her figure. And yes Bea looks more fall weather inspired.

Meghan looked meh as usual. For someone who strives to be a fashionista that is not her strength. And thank god no bump cradling.

Not sure what everyone, the Daily Fail mainly, was expecting. A punch up between Kate and Meghan? A huge row to develop in the middle of the walk about between Will, Kate, Harry and Meghan? Shame as I think DL would have exploded if one of those had happened 😄!

Princess Anne's outfit is really lovely. The color is to die for.

Camilla must still be under the weather.

Of course they were going to be "all smiles," putting on a "show of unity." To publicly snub Harry's pregnant wife would be just wrong from a PR standpoint, and morally of course. Behind closed doors, who knows?

Kate is definitely too thin, it's a strained-looking weight; five to ten pounds would make a world of difference. I read somewhere she's bringing back 1940s-50s style, and I for one love it. Enough with modern, edgy, slutty dressing.

Meghan's dark colors, again - why? I would love to have a conversation with her about this, understand her thinking.

Kate's decided that the 1940s are now her favourite time for coat styles. She looks fantastic and subtly as if she is at war. In that red number she is definitely winning. All other troops are in retreat.

The head piece though......

Beatrice needs to either lose weight or decide to be ok with being larger. She dresses quite well when she's thin but can't seem to pull it together when she has a few more pounds on her. Eugenie is usually OK and sometimes stellar. Today her Fergie genes led to this. It had the potential to be good and then it went too far. The shoes compounded the problem. I like the subtle edginess in her clothing choices generally and I'm holding out hope for her next year.

Meghan looks fine. She was expected to not upstage anyone. The outfit delivers. I like the hat and love the handbag.

Autumn Phillips, Zara Tindall and Sophie Wessex are all style winners in my book.

And the Queen's embroidery coat is just perfect.

"She looks fantastic and subtly as if she is at war" - interesting. I first read this as channeling the Queen Mother, standing strong during the Blitz.

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[quote]thank god no bump cradling.

It’s a Christmas miracle!

Amen to no bump cradling or excessive PDA with Harry. One thinks she has been told to be on her best behaviour and it’s not a “what Meghan wants, Meghan gets” occasion filled with self promotion. Long may it continue.

I like Kate's little hat. Tired of the fascinators tilted at absurd angles. If Kate's going back to the 1940s and 50s, then let's see a return to the cute "I Love Lucy" hats, too.

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You're right about today's hat, R81. I just meant I'd like to see little Grace Kelly hats, with netting and sweet flowers. The kind Lucy was always coveting, that Ricky wouldn't let her buy. Then again, I'd also like to see a return to gloves and muffs. Frankly, if I were a public person shaking lots of hands, I'd insist on wearing gloves.

Why is Meghan carrying her gloves rather than wearing them? It's the christening all over again. Again, the color is NOT festive.

Kate looks elegant but too thin. Harry actually looks presentable for a change. I love Will's funky scarf.

Definitely, GLOVES! I like the red with burgundy, very sophisticated, and love Catherine's hat. She looks great.

Hate the color of Charles' coat. Camilla must still have a bad cold. She missed the Queen's Christmas lunch too.

Photos of Catherine's outfit. She got it right!

Photos of Meghan's outfit. Passable but nothing special.

Photos of Kate and Meg interacting. They did a good job of acting chummy.

The Clarence House Christmas tree.

I liked Kate’s look better last year. Meghan’s look is meh, but I think that’s what she was going for after all of the recent headlines. Anything is an improvement over that brown outfit she wore last year.

Sophie had my favorite look

Charles looked like he was wearing pyjama bottoms.

Will and Kate looked happy.

I see Sophie has poor Louise wearing middle-aged lady clothes and shoes again.

A video of the Queen's arrival by car and then the rest of the Royal Family walking to church.

Leaving the church. The color of Kate's outfit really pops!

Meghan's curtsey. Better than last year.

The drab sand-coloured scarf from Harry's Nottingham walkabout last year has blown over to the Wessex's house and landed on Edward.

Happy Christmas, all! Grinning here as HM brings the family to heel and, as predicted, Kate and Meghan do their duty and walk beside each other looking civil, chatty, and smiley.

Kate looks royal and beautiful and seasonal, showing off her height and tiny waist, while Meghan, yet again, looks like the rich widow going to a funeral, anything, but seasonal. And, if it comes to it, Kate looks much the better actress, genuinely cheery as she waves toward crowds, whilst Meghan looks like someone playing a part.

Ffs, Christmas Day and the stupid woman wears a dark blue indistinguisable from black? She couldn't find a nice forest green? Cranberry?

All completely predictable, Meghan showing off her duty to the Crown with an extra deep curtsy . . .

"I'm American, we hug". Well, this one sure does.

I wonder how sick Camilla is. Remember the rumors about her having cancer?

R99 - notice the messy bun on Meghan.

I thought Lady Louise looked very elegant and the Yorkies looked even worse than expected. MM looked funereal, err, sophisticated.

I really like Bea's medium navy coat dress and wonderful fedora, not at all dark like the fashion victim's navy. Fashion has been so adrift since the Versace advent, it's nice to see a spark of style from the UK.

I guess we can expect to see George on The Walk next year. He's only a year younger than Peter's younger girl.

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Well, damn, my little tag line was meant to be signed The Guardian of Forever, before you ancient original Star Trek obsessives have at me.

R98

Autumn Philips looks lovely; Yuge looks atrocious but very happy. All this seasonal cheer and Meghan Arrives For The Funeral.

What about the purse MM is wearing? Is it some sort of flat purse and not vertical?

I don't know if Pa Markle is being sincere or if he's as wicked as Sister Sam. It seems they were consistently close until the pap stroll. Personally I think Meg should call him. Keep it light. Don't tell him anything sensitive. Hell, even pull the old William trick and feed him some fake news. If all he really wants is to be back in her life, give him a chance at redemption. If he wants to use her for headlines/cash, give him rope to hang himself.

R76 I did a bit of reading. It seems Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) was known for her plumpness, flowery hats and cheeriness during that period. She was a contrast to Wallis who was seen as thin, modern and sharp. As unpopular as it will be to this thread, I must say today Kate looks more like Wallis Simpson than like the Queen Mother in her styling.

R109 - Fergie WAS the Queen Mum in her day. We all remember how she was called "The Duchess of Pork".

Plumpness isn't a desired trait in this age of social media.

The Queen's Christmas Message. For today, at least, I will not be bitchy, not even here on DL.

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Kate needs to put on some weight. On the wrong side of 30, its a bad idea to keep a waif look. Her face looked better last year when she was carrying more from being with child.

With any luck, her metabolism will take care of that soon R114

To the person who asked about MM's gloves, she cannot put them on or they will emphasize that the sleeves of her coat are a few inches too short.

Also, do I detect shoulder pads in her coat?

My apologies, it appears she has taken off her gloves to "merch?" her rings. Girl's gotta hustle, even at church.

Kate is a good role model for all the fatties in the UK and the US. Stay skinny and maybe you can land a prince too! (Probably not, but at least people will look at you like a normal person.)

Kate looks underweight. I do hope nobody uses her as a role model for weight unless that's their own natural body size.

R83 - No gloves:

Optimist is she has a tic with her hands and she took the gloves off to keep her hands occupied and away from cradling during the walk.

Pessimist is she was “strongly advised” no bump cradling and if she can’t cradle the bump, she’s at least flashing the ring.

My favourite royal story today. It's so ludicrous it's funny.

[quote] Meghan Markle will use her pregnancy as a "Medieval power" to gain the upper hand over the Royal Family this Christmas, a royal watcher has sensationally claimed.

[quote] She told the Sun Online that she expects Meghan, 37, will use this "Medieval power" to climb up the royal hierarchy before she gives birth next spring. She added: "Meghan does exactly what she wants - and Harry is besotted so lets her get away with it. "She won't part in the drinking and thinks playing charades is stupid." Kensington Palace declined to comment on the claims.

That last sentence is a real gem.

These feathers are tacky as fuck. Without them, her hat would like kind of nice. A bit boring perhaps, but let's face it, she was about to attend a church service, not a fashion show or a Soho hooker party.

R111 The Queen's Christmas message is just wonderful! I have to hand to her and the Palace - that message is first class - and heartfelt. She shows the world how it's done. What a presence she is now.

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These days must be quite worrisome for the Queen. Brexit threatening the integrity of the United Kingdom and a grifting, merching attention whore threatening the integrity of the dynasty (her family, that is).

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I am not sure what the style intent is there ^^^^ but the sleeves look comically short. The overall fit of the coat suggests oversized blazer but would have been better with longer sleeves pushed up--a whole 80s vibe.

The integrity of the royal family has been fucked wayyyy before Meghan joined the family

It was hardly likely the 5'9" athletic Kate would ape the Queen Mum, who was about 5'2" with no waist, thick ankles, and tiny feet like hooves. That's why the Queen Mum wore very high heels and those highwayman style hats: they added several inches to her height.

That said, that highwayman style hat seems to me to be rather timeless and very chic, and Kate has worn hats that somewhat mimic the style, with the height on one side of the hat.

Meghan looks awful, in my opinion, and those fugly boots apparently ran 1,000 quid, the coat was 2,500 quid, and the purse was another 1,000 quid.

The look on her face isn't too appealing, either.

I wonder what it will take for them to get rid of her at last beyond simply marginalising her with the Frogmore exile and limiting her patronages to mild ones that they tell her she can have.

She seems particularly and loathsomely actressy today.

R119 - Obesity, especially amongst children, is now epidemic in the UK. Obesity is costing the NHS millions in health issues. Kate's model isn't.

Kate is rich and educated. Most of the obesity is amongst the working-class and poor. Most rich and educated women of Kate's class stay slim: they have the money and resources to do so. The poor don't.

Why WERE the sleeves so short? She is petite to begin with, was it hemmed for someone else?

The purse was cute but not 1,000 quid cute.

R129 probably hated Michelle Obama too, for having an “unappealing” look on her face 😂

Nope, Michelle Obama was and IS an epitome of class. Would that Meghan could follow Mrs. Obama's lead.

Nutmeg does look particularly greasy today, when she should be glowing.

I have no explanation for the sleeve length -- 3/4 sleeves on a tailored chesterfield coat doesnt make sense. It was probably cut for a petite -- she is petite but with freakish long arms and huge feet. She has massive fitting problems and looks pretty bad in most everything she wears, bad taste notwithstanding.

R121, it sounds as though the royal watcher has been watching [italic]Lion in Winter[/italic] and thinks QEII has convened a Christmas court.

More Meghan hatred on the board today. Would the board direct vitriol at Meghan if she were white? Nope. On another note Kate is too skinny.

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I've been carefully viewing photos and videos of the Sussex and Cambridge couples arrival and departure from the church service today (yeah I'm bored waiting for Christmas dinner). It's my opinion that the tension is more between William and Harry than the two Duchesses. The two Dukes barely acknowledged each other whereas Kate and Meghan at least made an effort to interact. Of course, as usual, Ms. Clingy went overboard as this photo shows.

[quote] It was hardly likely the 5'9" athletic Kate would ape the Queen Mum, who was about 5'2" with no waist, thick ankles, and tiny feet like hooves. That's why the Queen Mum wore very high heels and those highwayman style hats: they added several inches to her height.

With such flattery, I can't imagine why they didn't have you write her obituary.

Nutmeg making nice with Eugenie. She was never a great actress.

Ugh. I do not like Kate’s hat from the back.

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Thank you for the closeup of the gloves R142. Could it be any clearer what a fashion victim MeMe is? Wearing a heavy double breasted 3/4 sleeve coat with short gloves exposes 6" of bare skin -- a bit counterproductive, and looks really weird. Her shoulder line is tragic, too.

You'd think Meghan had killed Father Christmas the way she's being slagged on this thread. When there are clear fashion crimes like Beatrice's coat I can't see why there's this excessive attention to the sleeve length on Meghan's nondescript outfit .

R143 I want to love Eugenie's coat. I'd be all in if the cuff and hem were plain. If she went full "royal meets rock chic" with black leather boots I'd declare her the fashion win of the day. I suspect she has it in her and with her recent wedding I think she has the opportunity to shine without being seen as upstaging anyone. I also think her coat is a bit too snug, but that's the Yorks' signature look and I applaud it.

I also thought the gloves were carried to remind her not to cradle.

At least she's wearing a British designer!

You're so right, r142. Jesus, someone needs to help her dress.

How do they protect The Queen on public transit? It sounds like a logistical nightmare

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Kate looked sensational, loved the hat / bandeau thing. Cranberry and crimson together was a good choice. Is that the same coat she wore in green to something in November? Loved Princess Anne’s color, I suspect it may be one of her famous recycled and-I-still-fit-into-it outfits. Eug just missed the mark, too fussy at the shoulder. Bea was nice but could’ve been better fitted. Sophie Wessex looked great, Autumn Phillips suits the green. Megs was a swing and a miss. Too funereal, bad boots, short sleeves, odd feathers - just too many off details in one place.

I think Kate forgoes botox and fillers while breastfeeding, r149. She'll be back to usual form this spring.

Does she really breastfeed? Isn’t there a royal tit for that?

I assume so. She becomes rather flatchested when not doing so.

Meghan’s outfit is tragic as usual.

(1) Double-breasted is for ethnics.

(2) Plastic, ratty wig. Looks like it smells.

(3) Cheap gloves, boots, bag.

(4) Outfit is terrible color for holidays.

(5) Stop glomming on to everyone!

They made Sparkle hold something so she couldn’t belly cup, the dumb bitch.

Only after spotting and staring straight at a CAMERA, R140!

You just know Euge was like, “Unhand me, you peasant!”

R129 Elizabeth, the Queen Mother had a beautiful smile.

And, of course, Sparkles had to be the only one in the group with her coat unbuttoned. Everyone knows you're pregnant, dear.

Christmas 2017 Meghan's coat was wrapped tight and there was rampant speculation about how scandalous her dress might be under the coat.

"Did she wrap it in a modest V? I doubt it. I bet the V all the way to her navel, the slut."

This year she leaves the coat open so the world can see the modest tent she's calling a maternity dress in all it's A-line glory. Still complaints.

Something about the photo of MediaMeg patting Kate's back bugs me, very Trumpy way of exerting authority or control. Can't she just limit her back patting to her manbaby husband.

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You see it also clearly in their shoulder level.

When you see Sparkle next to PH even with 4-5 inch heels there is no way she is taller than 5'3" 5'7" my ass

Wonder how Sandringham went? Poor Meghan couldn't even have a drink.

I thought Meghan was known to be quite short?

Never knew she bldimed to be 5’7”. That’s hilarious!

Claimed

I was shocked that no one commented on Eugenie's scandalous decision to appear in full real fur with practically nothing on underneath it.

Such a mess.

Over on the DM, there were several comments implying that Bea's eyes seemed less bug-eyed this year, and mentioned a recent trip to California. I just thought she seemed to look a bit more relaxed that usual. Anyone else notice the difference?

I have to say Princess Meghan looks so polished and well-put-together. She is the leading humanitarian and feminist woman globally. I can't wait for her to birth her gender neutral baby and for it to lead the country.

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R132 - as I'm not an American voter, Mrs Obama's appeal or the lack thereof was of rather less interest. Ms Markle, however, is now on the royal gravy train of the UK taxpayer.

And all that said, even from this distance, I can tell you that one thing no one can accuse Mrs Obama of is social climbing of the coarsest variety, or of having married her husband solely for the social position he could give her, or of being phonier than your proverbial $3 bill.

Of course, to rabid types who believe one iota of one specific DNA elevates any human above any sort of criticism, the difference between the two women would naturally be lost and they would naturally seem identical and anyone who disliked one would naturally dislike the other.

R141 - that isn't Kate from the back, it's Princess Eugenie.

R154 - The gloves, boots, and bag were anything but cheap.

[quote] it has been observed that he has "behavior issues", possible code for autism. There are very few clips of him, period. Some where you can see him acting out, or Sophie having a careful word with him. His parents keep him quite close when he (rarely) appears in public. One hopes he may grow out of the more difficult parts, and / or he is getting an excellent therapeutic education.

Sorry but I think this is a pretty disgraceful statement. You're speculating baselessly about the health of a child only peripherally in the public eye. Not a single substantiation.

Who made these observations? Where are these clips he's acting out?

By the way grand BRF troll, you type like you have vaginal warts, halitosis, trouble keeping a job and a date and you're fat. I have no basis for this but I'm sure you won't mind.

R154 what the hell do you mean that double-breasted is for ethics??

The whole vibe seemed 'off' today. It irks me that some outlets paint Kate as being jealous of MM, when it seemed that she was the only one truly making an effort. PC looked glum and as if he couldn't get out of there fast enough. Camilla was absent. William was good with the crowd but couldn't even pretend to be cordial with PH or Meghan. Likewise, PH looked both sulky and smirky. He, too, couldn't be bothered to acknowledge PW or Kate. Meghan was Meghan...

This will be the last year they have the brothers walk together, I think. George should be old enough next year, so the Cambridges will walk as one. Will the Sussexes walk behind them? Or, will they conveniently go visit Grandma Doria? Will MM still even be in the picture?

^ethnics

So MeMe has been successful in driving a wedge between the bros. and generally isolating Haz from his family.

MM wouldn't be successful if Harry wasn't such a dimwitted brat.

She’s clearly after the throne.

Nah, narcs drive wedges and create chaos in all sorts of families, being dim and bratty are not unique.

They are like vampires, you have to bar them at the door.

Once she was knocked up he was not going to boot her out.

Her behavior was definitely reined in today and she should be far less visible from the outer burbs.

The number of planted stories is so high. I remember when People did a fairly revealing story on Depp and his demons years ago. Then it became kneepads. Now it seems as though the publicists are writing the stories as well. Is that a way she is making money if they drive clicks? It does not make sense that she is paying for all of this, there must be a money making aspect to it.

Please, let's stop with the Ad Hominen arguments, please. Go back to R111, and listen to the Queen's speech. The Viscount Severn should be left out of this discussion. He's a nervous little boy. I don't like the piling on for Meghan. I'm not a fan, but my whole frustration with her is that she doesn't seem to learn, but she actually learned a truly respectful curtsy this year compare to last year, so I won't be throwing her any shade. And she didn't do any cradling, either, so two thumbs up to the new Duchess. Let's not get nasty with each other on Christmas, please. Save it for another day. Yeah, I know it's DL. But I actually like most of you, and most of you have never been shitty to me, so I really do wish nice things for all of you.

Does Markle understand that the BRF are quite reserved and not touchy-freely? If so, why is she always grabbing at them? It’s do intrusive and tacky.

Narcs care nothing for the feelings of others, R185. It is always about them.

[quote](1) Double-breasted is for ethnics.

Do you not possess an ethnicity like every other human in the planet?

*ON the planet

Everyone is "ethnic". Ditch the outdated slurs.

Prince Edward looks like crap. Sophie seems to look good most of the time, she needs to help her husband. He looks like he forgot his coat, and had to borrow one of his dads he stopped wearing in the 1980s. Lady Louise looks like a Queen Mary/Queen Elizabeth II hybrid. She looks appropriate, but another hat would have been better. She will find her own style, and I suspect she will also be a fashion throw back like Catherine. Viscount Severn, just looks like a shy kid, who would rather be doing anything else than walking along getting gawked at by strangers. He is dressed way better than his dad.

Prince Philip is the smart one. He's beyond over this shit, and stayed home.

It would be so odd to have their (the BRF’s) job. Imagine having a job that required you to be gawked at— on the holidays, no less.

R187 you listed your comment among a list of things Meghan got wrong. It was meant as a criticism and you specifically mentioned it was thing “ethnics” did. That’s not a racial insult?

I'm r187 and I didn't write that comment, I responded to it. R154 wrote the original list.

I perceived the term "ethnics" to be meant as a racial slur (ie: a reference to brown folks) because it was used that way in the past. However, "white" identifiers such as Scandinavian, Irish, etc are also ethnic designations. The word is defined as "groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origins." We ALL belong to races and cultures, so it is beyond ignorant to apply "ethnic" to only certain groups.

So, r154, exactly WHICH "ethnics" were you implying favor double-breasted attire? Russians? Celts? Why not be honest about your racism and say what you really mean?

Kate's coat is double breasted. Is she ethnic?

Seeing the moment at R138 in motion, she's ready to dart in front of Kate but then she catches herself.

In the Sandringham photos Kate and Mugs seem to be playing along. William and Harry, however, are not playing. No love lost there, at least for right now. Incredible. That little hustler managed to break up the two bros.

Mega will rue the day she sowed discontent. Yes, PH is a dimwit, but she is the catalyst manipulating him.

Don't marry someone who is estranged from their own family. Estrangement is the norm for them. They don't know how to work through conflict and have no problem cutting people out of their lives. If they don't get on with your family, very soon they will be making moves to separate you from them. Your family will not be "the family they never had."

Good points. There are legitimate reasons for estrangement from an individual, but ALL OF THEM? And the only one MeMe does deign to associate with abandoned her through her childhood and youth...what is that about. Good lesson for anyone looking on, if you didnt know it already.

Prince George sucking on a candy cane

Actually, r184, she did a perfectly fine curtsey at Eugenie's wedding. Then proceeded to perform an insulting curtsey to the royalty of Tonga. It's not that she cannot learn, (it's a curtsey, not astrophysics), it's that she chooses not to.

I agree she was reined in yesterday. It still didn't stop her from the Instagram kid stunt, the backPat's, etc. But she did much better. No cradling. No hanging onto Harry for dear life.

Who, I wonder, advised her to cut back on the cradling? Oh, how I wish I could have overheard THAT conversation.

Me too! Harry is too cowed by her to say anything. Maybe Anne or HM? PP is retired so probably not him, although I would love to hear the dressing down he could give in this situation.

I am SO over Harry. God, ya think ya know people.

Yesterday, after HM departed, PC thanked the rector, then PA thanked him, then PW began to thank him. MM observed all of this even as Harry tried to pull her to the crowds on the other side (as Kate was attending to the crowds on the other side). Nope, MM had to insert herself in the conversation. As if the rector really cares for her input? Harry looked deeply uncomfortable as he knows his role and she should know hers. William just looked at her and without a word to her walked away.

Interestingly, Edward approached and tried to join the discussion and MM completely froze him out. Really, go look at the video. She glances at Edward, then looks at the rector with this "can you believe this asshole" look, then walks away.

I am done with Harry, too. He looked both smug and unhappy yesterday. He brought his current fortunes onto himself and can blame no one else. Next year, the Sussexes will be sidelined and both sides will use the baby as an excuse.

Back off r154. Thank you.

R204... Sometimes you look for validation for the things you want to see. If I were with a group of people and I noticed some of them were thanking someone—especially If I partook in the event the rector just hosted—my first instinct is to thank them too. Do you really think the rector doesn’t care/appreciate her thank you? Do you think a thank you is unwelcome? Every time she does something, some people view it ONLY in the light of her getting attention.

Re the hand cradling, I think MM definitely reads up about herself and was acutely aware of the negative feedback, and stopped doing it.

I think someone deliberately gave her something to hold (gloves, bag) to prevent the cradling.

That is one ridiculous, pointless bag she is carrying.

Meghan hugged a young woman in the crowd. According to at least one report, Meghan recognized the woman as someone who operated a blog about her. If that's true, then it raises questions. Does she read that much about herself online that she even recognizes the authors?

When Harry comes to his senses, will she file for divorce immediately or try to correct her divisive machinations? What about the baby?

R211 it's not going to happen.

If anything, they'd divorce in all but name like anne and her husband or prince michael and pushy.

What I want to know is, will Princess Charlotte be prepared as intensely for the throne as her brother George as heir spare?

What magic does Meghan have the bewitches princes, rends brother from brother and cripples the entire British monarchy?

Is she better than me?

It’s the same magic that devotes 3-4 DL threads to hating her at once.

Re r204: I bet Meghan felt she was being snubbed, therefore inserted herself into the conversation.

Why people do this, I’ll never understand. Plus, she seems not to like the idea of “roles.” So why join such a hierarchical organization?

I bet William hates her with a steely passion.

R216 that makes no sense... people were thanking the rector. She decided to thank the rector. How is that inserting herself into the conversation? You know what? If people thanked the rector, and she didn’t, you’d accuse her of snubbing the rector.

R215 An army of frauen who have the power to read minds?

You know what? Her poodle Harry tried to steer her away but she doesnt take his counsel. Oh well, as noted above, chances to insinuate herself will be diminishing.

Shoulda been Poodle Harry PH

Today, the DM has one story that the Queen and Prince Charles ordered Kate and Meghan to 'call a truce', while another story says, 'They're trying a bit too hard.' The DM has manufactured this supposed feud in the first place, and now is going to find every possible reason to stoke the fires. I'm an old gay man, but I really don't like women being pitted against each other like that. I never had any impression other than that they got along pretty well, and didn't believe the stories about the 'feud' which seems to have begun with the announcement of the move to Frogmore Cottage. I'm definitely not MM's biggest fan (by far), but I don't think she's the sinister figure she seems to be to some. I don't comment about her much anyway. The whole Sussex saga has left me rather bored.

No, Meghan's a gloating, mustache-twirling Disney villain.

It seems clear from the walk that it is William and Harry that have a problem with each other, not their wives. I imagine Kate doesn't think twice about Meghan except for when they have official functions together. Meghan didn't do too bad yesterday, except I noticed today in comments and such that people did not like that back patting thing she does. Although she may intend for it to be comforting, I can see how it comes off as condescending. You mainly only see that move with parents and their kids. For her own sake, she needs to retire that move.

I guess the "Thank the Rector" scenario was a no-win situation. According to the post above, Prince Charles thanked the rector, and then so did Prince Andrew, and then Prince William. If Prince Andrew was in the conversation, then it wasn't reserved for direct heirs only. Prince Andrew's role should be the frame of reference for Harry. In learning their roles, William should follow Charles' example, and Harry should follow Andrew's example (except for all the gross stuff). So, if Andrew was thanking the rector, then Harry should have thanked the rector, too. If Harry and Meghan would have walked away without thanking him, then there would still be complaints. "Harry and Meghan are too smug/lazy/self-absorbed to thank the rector, and they stuck the rest of the family with the task while they rushed to be first to chat up the fans outside the church.

My style winners of the day were Isla and Savannah Phillips in their darling little coats - one pink, one green.

Giving her stuff to carry didn’t work.

I looked at videos to see if there is some sort of protocol for leaving the church, and there doesn't appear to be any. However, the difference between last year and this year is so striking. Part of this is because Phillip and Camilla were in attendance last year. But also, the family appeared to be in much better spirits (or were working on appearing so). This year seems strained. Kate is the only person who appears to engage Meghan. (Even Harry does not really engage her other than holding her hand. I'm not trying to insinuate his intent. Just noting that last year he was jovial, introducing her to the crowd and showing her off. His demeanor was almost grave this year.) William and Harry aren't talking. Prince Charles seems annoyed and disengaged. Did he even stop to greet the well wishers? The rest of the group keep a mighty distance behind the fab four during the walk. Meghan can be a mess, and it is clear the rest of the family barely tolerate her presence, but I wonder if the RF is happy to have the spotlight on her because something else is going on behind the scenes?

Are we really dissecting why and how people thanked the rector?

Whatever she did or didn't do, intend or didn't intend, MM has a real credibility problem. A lot of people (granted internet mouth breathers like me) don't seem to trust her. Steep hill to climb. The solution is not to be so visible in the long term or at least more conventional in her visibility. Don't know if she's up for that.

I cringe at that phrase "Fab Four" - blech!

R228 you make a great point. Something feels off and it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with MM. my feeling is that Camilla and Prince Phillip are in very bad health, and it’s wearing on everyone. Camilla is the interesting one. She’s missed the last few events because of a cold? I don’t buy it.

Why were the "fab four" forced to walk side by side, four across? Even if they all were getting along, it wouldn't make sense. If the palace wanted to force them into looking friendly, then they'd have Kate and Meghan walking side by side as a pair, chatting with each other, while their husbands followed as a pair behind, also chatting with each other.

R229, if this is your first time here welcome to the pointless side of pointless bitchery.

If you're a repeat visitor, do recall the deep discussion of sleeve length and the distance between sleeve and glove.

Hah 234, I’m a repeat visitor but I do forget how pointless the bitchery can be!

I don't buy it, either, r232. They're so tense they cannot even pretend to enjoy each other's company. What are we talking about here, 10 or so minutes? Smile, act like you like each other and then go your separate ways when the cameras are gone.

In the old days, at events, Di and Fergie would walk side by side, giggling with each other (sometimes poking other people's asscheeks with umbrellas), while their husbands would be off somewhere else in the caravan. (Who knows where...the photographers didn't care about the husbands.)

Does anyone know if The Windsors are coming back? I cannot find anything online. I would love to see the show tackle everything that has gone on recently.

R222 - it's a habit for tabloids to "blame" the women for the feud but it's my belief that's it's actually the two Dukes who have a strained relationship rather than their wives.

They walk side by side and the other members of the family give them room so the media can get a tight shot of them. It's the same reason for their placement on the balcony at the Trouping of the Colours. Meghan and Harry were in the second row (Harry has always been in the second row), because it gives a more media-friendly shot than having them all out in front because it's easier to crop.

The Remembrance Day placement of the 3 queens was the most striking visual statement the BRF has done in recent memory.

[quote]I really don't like women being pitted against each other like that.

I agree but people love cat fights. How many “Real Housewives” series are there? Someone’s watching it.

Has Freddie Windsor ever NOT been terrifying looking?

"We're nearly there" says Meghan. Did she give herself away? Isn't she having the baby in spring? There's still awhile to go, isn't there?

Hugging and fawning over the blogger.

The gloves and the purse can't stop her from tummy hugging.

She appears to be transfixed!

Eugenie's outfit. I think it was a miss.

Hooray! Her curtsey has improved.

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Eugenie's dress looks like a Christmas nightgown.

Sorry to bore ya R234, but sleeve length, fit and proportion is my business. If you think I am going to let egregious fashion sins pass by just because you can't detect them, you are kookoo.

Egregious fashion sins? Really?? We’re a tad over dramatic.

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Beatrice looks like she is wearing a cheap raincoat, but Autumn Phillips' weird hem mitigates it somewhat. Maybe they were off to do a panto after church.

Haha i like vintage style very much. Bz is great, by the way; you couldnt get an appointment, not that you would ever feel the need..

It must suck to be a royal outcast (and outcaste) like Meghan and have to endure four days of holiday cheer with the York princesses, Princess Michael, and The Duchess of Cambridge. You know they’re giving her the Mean Girl treatment. Good! She doesn’t deserve the position, I want Chelsy or Cressida and I think it’s going to happen someday!!!!!

I imagine it is just kind of awkward for everyone. They don't understand her and she doesn't understand them. And even if they understood her, they win because they're them and she's just her. She was just a bad pick for a wife and ill suited to this life. The sooner it is over, the better and she can move on to the kind of world she understands and actually wants.

R255 I'm sure the Yorks keep you running hither and thither. Their particular preferences for fit and proportion are legendary.

I'm not looking for a new seamstress at the moment, but do send along your catalog. If nothing else, it will be entertaining to peruse.

The royals do seem to have allowed themselves to be maneuvered into an absurd corner. The Christmas church walk was completely predictable and persuaded everyone, especially the tabloids, that there really is a problem, because it was so clearly staged. A blind man could see that William and Harry can barely look at each other, and the two women were left with the burden of keeping the side up with their panto. No one bought it for a minute, and were I Kate, I'd have turned around once out of sight of the press and said sweetly, "Don't you ever do your hand on the back number with me again, or I'll brush it away in sight of the press and we won't have to pretend any longer."

Having been unable to find the spine to keep her out in the first place, the family are now caught between loathing her and being forced to pretend they don't for the Happy Families Charade. Had they taken the heat in the first place for refusing to countenance another narc wreaking havoc within the bosom of the family, they wouldn't now find themselves faced with years of internal conflict.

I said from the beginning that getting pregnant as soon as humanly possible after the wedding was the only way Meghan could assure that it would be next to impossible for them to boot her out.

The BRF, again, have been foolish beyond belief, and as with Diana, they'll pay full price for their cowardice. Their only piece of good luck is that Harry is so far down the line of succession, and the long game will go to William and Kate.

It will be interesting to watch the BRF twist in the wind over the years because HM and Charles didn't learn from the Diana Debacle and grow enough spine to tell Harry, "No."

I feel 80% sorry for Meghan, 20% annoyed by her. The bump cradling was super cray for a while there.

I'm of the belief that "Heavy cold" in reference to Camilla is BRF code for Flu. When they used it for the Queen she wasn't seen in public for a month. They played it off at the time but behind the scenes they were making preparations for her death. This was in the press in the last year.

So dissecting how poorly fitted Meghan's choice of raiment is, what, verboten now? But all bets are off when it comes to the Yorkies or anyone else? The cut and style on that coat was dreadful but I will give credit where due, at least she wore British. Moreover is a benefit the monochromatic dark navy was very much a conscious decision to diffuse attention seeking.

Another vote for Anne's beautiful coat. I love the style and color.

Was it British, R262? There's a change. I assumed she picked navy as it was a close to wearing black (which she seems to prefer) as she could come, without pissing off the Queen, who regards it as mourning wear.

The people who are upset at the criticism Meghan receives shouldn't worry so much. Meghan is probably thrilled to her core that people are talking about her, regardless of whether the commentary is negative or not. After all, there's no such thing as bad press! She is the global star she always wanted to be, regardless of how liked or disliked she may be. The time to worry is if their marriage ever dissolves. She will be like Angelina without Brad, an odd curiosity but one that no longer makes the front pages.

Thanks R259 for this

[quote] and were I Kate, I'd have turned around once out of sight of the press and said sweetly, "Don't you ever do your hand on the back number with me again, or I'll brush it away in sight of the press and we won't have to pretend any longer."

When I saw the picture of Sparkle with her hand on Kate's back, I had similar thoughts.

A firm word is in order. And consequences if it happens again.

With Sparkle, nothing is an accident. All is pretense.

And I don't like that gesture myself - reeks of control.

She must be tired of groping Harry. Or may be she thinks she can win William over with some girl on girl.

Harry seems tired of her. He was never one to be faithful and he probably won't start now.

"I'm American - we hug." Said about hugging the staff at KP who apparently hate her guts.

Internet trolls are going after the Queen now.

Yes the back patting was no accident and not innocent, control and patronizing maneuver. I notice Eugenie did it right back to her, quick thinking on Euge's part and good for her. This is also why it is exhausting to be around this type of person.

Another troll.

The young Elizabeth with Anne.

The then Princess Elizabeth with Charles.

R262 No one said critiquing Meghan or any of the royals was verboten. The discussion was about how detailed such a critique had become. It would appear gloves, sleeve length and her stye of thanking the rector are all within bounds. Play on

Her Majesty in all her regalia.

Elizabeth, Margaret and corgi.

Margaret really favors her father in that picture, r277.

Solemn but pretty.

Kate's Christmas outfits over the years.

r264 The dress, boots, coat and bag are Victoria Beckham (British), the hat is Awon Golding (british) and Jewellery (necklace and earings) Jennifer Meyers (American - daughter of the head of universal). Total cost $12800 according to a poster on royaldish. Certainly living up to that Duchess of Excess moniker.

On the rare occasion, a lucky photographer can even get the Queen to look directly at the camera.

People seem to come up with royal rules based on something the queen may have said and then act like this is a royal chiselled in stone or wrtten in blood and nailed to the clock tower in each town square throughout the land.

"The queen forbids royal women from wearing black because black is for mourning" Some version of this pops up quite often. That inofrmation doesn't seem to have been conveyed to some of royal women.

Camilla in black and grey for Christmas at Sandringham in 2015.

Daughter, mother and wife - three grieving Queen's at King George VI's funeral.

Beatrice is black at Sandringham in 2010.

It's unlikely the Queen didn't notice her.

^^in black...typo

R283 - the Queen wears black at funerals and visiting the Pope. She believes that bright colors are more cheerful and allow people to pick her out of a crowd more easily. It makes sense. Nutmeg doesn't get IT.

^ Queens

Zara Phillips in black at Sandringham in 2011

I love the person who tries to explain away Meghan's love of wearing boring dark colors ad nauseum by showing other members of the Royal Family wearing the occasional black outfit.

Queenie looking STYLING at R285

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R288 The Queen may only wear black for funerals but she doesn't seem to have a rule that all other royal females must also avoid black. The Queen's position is singular and she may institute rules and or procedures that suit the singularity of her role and or her preference.

R290. Fuck what you think I am. I'm just logical. If there's a rule then there's a rule. If there isn't then, it's biased to insist that such a rule exists when there is evidence to the contrary.

Meghan has good fashion choices and bad ones. That dress yesterday wasn't hideous because of the colour. I thought the neckline was too casual. The top half looked like a t-shirt and the skirt looked like a tent. I think she should burn it at the first opportunity.

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Zara and Yuge and Bea and Autumn Phillips can all wear black any time they wish. They aren't working royals. It's the senior working royals who are "asked" to observe certain customs that maintain the mystique of royalty. Hats. Cheerful colours so they can be picked out by people at the edge of the crowd, hose, and avoidance of black until called for for mourning.

I love the appearance of Viscount Severn, who is at the age where he apparently declared he was NOT going to look silly and wear a coat because he does not NEED a coat. SO he looks cold. That's what boys do at that age.

His face has intelligence and awareness.

His father obviously is wearing a coat given to him from his father - it looks just like Philip's style and tailoring, and has not been refitted for Edward, which is why it looks outsized. But he's wearing a coat from his father.

Then there is she who can do no wrong (currently), the Duchess of Cambridge, wearing a black evening gown in 2014. Kate has more than paid her dues in being raked over the coals in the last 7 years. She has worn black on many occasions.

I think Meghan wears dark colours too often but she is neither as rebellious nor as revolutionary as her detractors or her supporters would like to believe.

Does Her Majesty wear lambswool kneepads so her breasts don't bruise when she knees them in her gait?

I'm wondering, given her appearance in R282.

R296 The future Queen Consort. Such a cheerful outfit.

R298, I don't think Meghan is either rebellious or revolutionary I think she's merely disrespectful to the RF and its traditions. She intentionally wears dark nail polish, goes to official functions bare legged, walks ahead of Harry and makes inappropriate fashion choices on purpose. I personally think she's a social climbing sociopath.

Meghan appears to have a case of “you can’t tell me what to wear!” arrested development.

Unfortunately, dressing a certain way is part of her job.

R300 Meghan may well be a social climbing sociopath. I don't know her and I'm not qualified to diagnose that.

I'm just calling bullshit on the idea that wearing black will piss off the Queen as R264 stated.

My issue with Sparkes and her dark wardrobe is she seems to favour dark colours which will make it difficult for people who have turned out to see her, to see her. In addition her black/navy outfits are all very samey samey and all hideously expensive. Why the heck does she need yet another navy coat costing $3100 when she has a wardrobe full of navy coats? What happened to the maternity coat she wore to upstage Eugenie at her own wedding? I'm very curious to know who is paying for all these outfits, it can't be Harry. So far her wardrobe is in excess of $1m and his annual income is $400k before taxes.

If William and Harry are on the outs, I think that's sad.

That's the thing, R304, she's been accused of wearing outfits by certain designers in exchange for financial compensation. The same goes for jewelry and other accessories. If true, as a member of the RF, she's once again in violation of their rules.

R304 If one goes by DL threads and the Daily Mail, no one goes out to meet Meghan. She's merely a narc who thinks people are there to see her. In that case it doesn't matter if she blends into the background.

I agree with you that some of Meghan's clothes look tediously similar and the price tags are sometimes ludicrous.

R306 I'd say that's an allegation of fraud so provide some evidence but this is DL: baseless rumour and wild speculation are the stock in trade. If it's true I'm sure she'll be found out. And it will be dramatic.

As the first one showed up as an error message, I'm trying again with the link to the video of the hand on Kate's back. It's actually a patronizing "awww, sweetie-pie, I'll let you go first just this one time, bless your heart" move after Bean attempts to zoom in front of Kate in order to grab the outstretched, waiting arm of Her Love.

Ugh. It's the ninth one down, right after the belly-clutching and the four of them walking side by side. Just look for the first shot with a gate in it.

Everyone else is buttoned up against the damp, but of course Me-me has to show off the bump. Probably would have laid down in the manger during the service if she could.

R289 Zara Philips has smashing gams--she should flash them more often!

My bitch sister just RETRACTED her Merry Christmas to me!

General Mattis just posted in a DL thread that Meghan was behind the force reduction in Syria. What a narcissistic bitch!

In the picture at R283, Camilla is wearing a grey dress that has black trim. If one were asked what color her dress was, no one, except R283 would answer "Black".

In the picture at R285, Bea is wearing dark grey. Not black. Although her boot are black.

Kate hasn't worn black "many times". except for Remembrance Day. And at other times it has been pften trimmed with other colours. The black lace dress shown in the "She who can do no wrong" post was to the Royal Variety Performance [sic - quite the contrast to that absurd outfit MM wore to it this year. There have been a couple of exceptions but not many. On most of them you will see the red poppy.

Meghan on the other hand wears it constantly.

I took a look at the Yahoo home page at lunch just to see how many stories there were. No less than 16 stories about the RF. Most boosting Nutmeg, some about Kate and some about other members of the family such as Prince Phillip or Yuge. I do not ever recall seeing anything like that in the past. They were clearly placed items in what used to be called womens mags, although now I think most are online content only. Apparently the online content is often provided, lol.

So part of the PR strategy seems to be boosting the celebrity of the RF and then boosting Sparkle within it, while also tearing down Kate. Any one in the biz care to comment? WHERE is the $ for all this PR coming from?

[quote]I am SO over Harry. God, ya think ya know people.

I didn't think anyone on this thread knew him at all, actually. Seems like the same cad he's always been.

[quote]Kate's coat is double breasted. Is she ethnic?!

By the standard definition, yes- mostly English, with a smidge of French and Scottish. Sorry, r154, looks like double-breasted attire is for ALL ethnics, not just the ones you were trying to denigrate.

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Now she’s trying to come between the queen and prince Philip??

[quote]Now she’s trying to come between the queen and prince Philip??

Oh, my! That shameless hussy!

They wanted a quiet word, and Philip recited his favourite rhyme :

Was the last night in August, in gay old Pa-ree...

What's the deal with Camilla? Is she not well? This all started with her not attending Eugenie's wedding.

There are rumors that she has cancer, R322.

She’s trying to gain allies in the forthcoming royal civil war. Philip might entertain her proposition if she flashes her big preg-swollen udders.

R316 and everyone....Yahoo will look at your history of searches and show you articles based on your searches. It’s jow they get clicks and return visits.

Seemed to me that Meghan's outstreched arm and back pat to Kate was an attempt to make sure she was moved slightly in front of her, so she could walk through the gate first ahead (of Meghan). Protocol and all - someone has definitely been coaching the Duchess of Sussex, to good results imo. I didn't see her once look directly into a camera, in any of the photos. Very little b-cupping, and her curtsy has improved dramatically.

That makes sense, except I have not clicked on the links, R325. I had noticed that there seem to be a lot of placed stories. Today there were 16. Who is paying for all of the PR? Nutmeg and Dim do not have that kind of $.

There were stories about her looking for new PR, then sticking with the same agency. Some of her hyped friends are people with the same reps, such as SW.

Cindy Adams had Camilla dying of lung cancer 15 years ago, with only weeks to live.

Harry already said that he’s trying to protect her. He’s paying to keep the positive press flowing. But journalists are catching on and going for the jugular.

R323 I am curious to know where you read/heard rumors that Camilla has cancer? Clarence House has gone on record saying she has a "heavy cold". The older you get, the more serious that can be, and she certainly doesn't want to be dragging her cold around HM or Philip.

R327 it isn’t just the yahoo links or searches. —it’s whatever you look at on the internet. For example, this page would count. My yahoo feed has one article on the royals and a bunch on Dump (I obsessively hate the man’s guts) as well as a smattering of Hollywood gossip.

Very true r331 I use Ghostery, and it is alarming how many trackers some sites employ. If you don't have it already, I strongly encourage folks to try it out. You may need to disable certain trackers to be able to comment on Disqus for example, but otherwise it is very easy to use.

R330 I’m curious too. To me, the media said nothing about the most oddly dressed royal on Christmas—Prince Charles. It looked like he got out of bed in his pajamas and just showed up. I wonder if something truly is up with Camilla and he’s way too preoccupied to even make an effort to look good.

Charles is just wearing wide-legged suits that were common up until the 50s.

R334 it wasn’t just the wide legs it was the odd color of everything, including the shoes. Maybe Camilla dresses him and she was too sick to do so.

It's not just her latest absences, she also returned early from a couple of trips this year. One was supposedly because of her fear of flights (which is weird because she obviously flies frequently). Another was due to "back" problems. Whatever it is, they won't announce it publicly until they absolutely have to.

If she is sick, I wonder if she is even there? With the ages of the Queen and the Duke, they don't want to be around a sick person. I wonder if Camilla went to Raymill instead, ill. It is her custom to go there shortly after Sandringham anyway.

Don't get too carried away on Camilla. She was at the diplomatic corps reception looking well and smiling just on Dec. 4 - scroll down five images or so.

And again Dec. 12th. She looks really good for someone presently dying of cancer, two weeks later.

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Maybe Camilla has a severe cough and they don't want her passing it on to her 92 and 97 year old in-laws. At their ages, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

She's probably happy to be somewhere else anyway and is glad to have an excuse.

I’m worried about Camilla now.

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I love the photo at R323! Camilla does look good, I love the detail on the top of her coat. Plus how cute is the flower crown on the donkey?

R315 please see comment at R303.

In the link below there are multiple examples of Kate wearing both solid black and black prints since joining the royal family. If wearing black pisses off the Queen, it would seem that Kate is being intentionally disrespectful by wearing it repeatedly. I do not believe Kate to be doing any such thing.

The idea that senior royal women as forbidden from wearing black because the Queen believes it is only for mourning is just not supported by the evidence.

I gave no assessment of Meghan's dress for the Royal Variety Show. Since you raised it, I think Meghan was trying to distract from the size of her belly with the silly swimsuit string and the pattern on her top. I didn't think it was effective. I think she has fashion hits and misses. That one was a miss in my books.

^^ are forbidden

R345, Meghan has done nothing but bring attention to her bump from day one. Starting with that ridiculous grab for attention to distract from the bride at Eugenie's wedding to her incessant fondling of that damn bump at every public event. She's a shitty actress and it's no more apparent than when she's out in public putting on another OTT show.

I think Meghan brings attention to her belly by highlighting it sometimes and distracting from it's size at other times. The fact that it seems to grow or diminish depending on her outfit actually generates more clicks and comments than if it appeared to grow at an even rate.

Yes R348, but what does that tell you about her supposed pregnancy? I'm no conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination but she doesn't really look pregnant. She looks to have gained some weight but her body hasn't changed along with the pregnancy. She looks exactly like she did before she became pregnant. Depending on her bump du jour she looks as if she's further along than her supposed due date in June. Her body should look super swollen by now according to the latest bump photos.

I think all pregnancies are different and all pregnant women carry differently.

This has been discussed in many threads. If Meghan is not pregnant then

A. She would be perpetuating an elaborate hoax on Harry and the BRF

or

B. Other members of the BRF are helping Meghan to perpetuate an elaborate hoax on the British public.

The end game of either situation would be the presentation of a baby or the announcement of miscarriage. If she is lying to the family, how will she explain the lack of medical staff and Harry not being in the room for the birth? If she and Harry are lying to the BRF, how do they explain the lack of medical staff? Meghan has a geriatric primagravida so a natural home birth is very unlikely. How could they ensure that doctors, nurses and a surrogate would honor a non-disclosure agreement?

In the event of an announced miscarriage, the same medical issues would arise for her, Harry and or any of the royals privy to this elaborate hoax.

A safe and healthy live birth is the best outcome for Meghan. It will cement her position within the royal family. I consider the other possibilities logistically improbable. I think she arches her back, cradles her belly, and uses creative tailoring or foundation garments to enhance or diminish the look of her pregnancy.

R350, but how will she merch? Or sugar? Or worsen climate change? Where’s the evil that I’ve heard so much about?

LOL. I'm sure in her vengeance Meghan causes the Gulf Stream to slow and the polar vortex to weaken thus bringing frigid weather to both the UK and North America. At her every breath sea levels rise bringing flooding and destruction to low lying areas globally. See the famines and droughts she has wrought.

Narcissists ARE evil liars, users, manipulators. Nutmeg hustled Poodle Harry so fast his shalliw head still hasn't stopped spinning. Meanwhile, her family who had catered to her throughout her life were no longer useful and were thrown away. Poof bye Daddy, signed Bean. That says a lot about a person's character. Goldigging and social climbing on the backs of family and friends is nothing to admire.

Harry and Meghan deserve each other. Already she looks to be growing impatient with him and he looks utterly lost without her instruction.

It does liven the drama.

I realised why I dislike MM so much, quite aside from the way she cheapens the BRF. It is her hubris, her naive and arrogant assumption that everyone will swallow her bullshit pronouncements and fall for her phony mannerisms. Does she really think we are that stupid, or is it all she knows how to do?

With narcs it doesnt matter what you think. All that is important is Me Me Me, so yes I guess she is on permanent autopilot.

They seem like they're growing impatient with each other. Harry can't enjoy being frozen out by William. Doesn't he miss his friends? I doubt that she's so awesome she's able to fulfill all his man child needs. Neither one got what they signed up for.

I don't buy "any press is good press". I think the public condemnation she is receiving must burn into her soul, especially since she is prohibited from responding. Narcissists crave approval.

I can't imagine what he was thinking. Harry has had friends from prep school, friendships going back 20 years. Did MM meet any of them? She has made him break away from the ones she saw as "bad influences" and forced him to say goodbye to Chelsy. The aristos tend to stay within their own circle for life because no one else can relate to their experiences. Anyone marrying into that circle has to fit in as best they can and not rock the boat.

DL frauen believe MM has no soul so she must be feeling fine..

MM reminds me of Heather Mills McCartney, this random woman who suddenly appeared on a tv show where they were talking about how great a humanitarian she was. Then up pops the special guest Paul McCartney talking about how great she was. I wasn't a follower of McCartney so I had no idea about this new romantic development. Fast Forward to 2010, they were divorced with a child and rumours persisted that she'd blown through her £24m divorce settlement (she had wanted £125m). HMM's activism seemed to coincide with her meeting McCartney, strangely we've not heard much about her activism since the divorce.

I find myself reluctantly agreeing with R259. It does seem that the BRF left themselves wide open for this shrike to strike, which is too infuriating. Why didn't Queenie just say NO.

R345, thanks for posting the most gorgeous photo of Kate I've seen to date. Granted, it's a decade+ old, but she is stunning here. The fuller hair suits her and she looks so exuberant, healthy and carefree.

No swollen brests and no swollen ankles and yet she is 6 months apparently our Duchess . Its very odd that pregnancy !

That's what I don't understand. The only part of her that looks pregnant is her belly. I already feel sorry for this kid, and she hasn't even had it yet.

[quote] DL frauen believe MM has no soul so she must be feeling fine..

Narcs have no souls. They are selfish ASSHOLES with a deep hunger to eat babies' brains. That's why Wills and Kate keep the narc away from the kids. Also, narcs spread cancer whenever they get a chance.

R353 That's what I never used to understand about a clinically diagnosed NPD friend I had, he would engineer situations where he would look bad just to get attention and I never understood why he did it. I did some reading on the topic recently and it turns out some of them crave negative attention as much as they crave positive attention. So it's possible that the bad press doesn't bother her and she likes playing the victim but I don't know and I've given up trying to fully understand the different kinds of crazy in the world.

I disagree. Clearly MM did not like being shunted to the back row at the Remembrance Day event - you could see it on her face - and I'm sure she doesn't like being shipped off to Frogmore Cottage, former servants quarters under a flight path out in the suburbs instead of the 21 room apartment at KP. This is all due to negative press.

To bolster R368's comments:

R368 Yep she definitely hated that but that's a different matter. That was someone in the Firm deciding to show her that she needs to shape up her behaviour to fit in more it probably wasn't the firm's reaction to her press but to her behaviour.

Quite, but apart from the outpourings from her outrageous family, the negative press was due to her behaviour.

I was the idiot who opened the Pandora's box about the Queen and black. That she disapproves of it is my understanding based on what I have read about the subject, but I freely admit that I have not done a PhD on it or six days of Googling for a powerpoint so, for the benefit of us all, I concede I was wrong. I made it up because I am a racist hater of Megan Markle who is an unqualified feminist and progressive and will single handedly modernize the racist, sagging, boring Royal Family if only because she is faultless and can do no wrong. I will abandon this thread, throw myself to my death from a cliff, and as my last breath escapes me on the battlefield, it will whisper Meghan's name.

Now for the love of God and planet saving Meghan Markle, can the obsessive picture goggler claim victory and shut the fuck up about it?

Ooooh, gurl! You need a xanax the size of a donut right about now.

It's called satire. Your phone can help you understand that.

The picture at R369 is one thing I don't understand, which is she often photographs as if she's had work done (recently and not good work.). And then she photographs normally thereafter. I don't know what she's doing to herself. I think she's a grifting jackass and can't wait til she gets her divorce and slithers on to a life where water seeks its own level, but I don't deny she's pretty.

The picture at r369 proves nothing. It was Remembrance Day, everyone was solemn and sad. So everyone was solemn but Meghan because it was Remembrance Day, but SHE was solemn because she’s unhappy? Just look at the person next to her, who’s even more solemn.

Meghan looks lovely on Christmas, as does Kate. You can see the warmth between the two of them.

She doesn't look unhappy, R378. She looks mortified, insulted, appalled and even stunned, but not unhappy. She finally realized that the rest of the BRF has, in fact, no idea who she is, and she's trying to process the fact that she's a complete fucking nobody to them.

The Queen is quite obviously trying to cloak the mess with her impeccable position. That doesn't mean there isn't a mess. What never ceases to amaze me about the BRF is how far they let things go before they have to do glaringly staged photo ops like these.

As for warmth between Kate and Meghan - please, only a fool would believe that. They all know Meghan has been leaking nasty stories about Kate and William to her pal Lainey.

She's brought them nothing but trouble and she's only been there one year.

They deserve it for caving in to Harry's adolescent bullshit.

Kate should win an Oscar for the role she played walking to church with the ho.

Here's a nice article talking about Meghan's lovely outfit and whatnot for Christmas. Nice to see how well she's blending into the family, and how much the British public likes her.

Wowza. Kate is sooo tiny.

R378 that’s nuts. Seriously, you need to rethink your analytical capabilities and how you perceive the world. It’s one thing to say you believe MM is upset, it’s another to say you think it because of that picture. That picture shows literally nothing re her emotional state.

There is a funny article on the DM (not linking) of all the times Meghan attempted to talk to William and he flat out ignored her. At one point he was fiddling with his scarf like a mad man in order to avoid her attempts. When is she going to accept that the rest of the family want nothing to do with her?

I just remembered one of my favorite Diana quotes, from one of those surreptitiously recorded phone conversations of hers: "After all I've done for this fucking family!" Fantastic. I loved her, but she sure was a piece of work.

R380, you made my morning! So true!

R384 that’s beyond rude of William. I’ll bet he’s the major source of all the dysfunction but no one can say anything because of his position.

R372 Pandora aka The DL Village Idiot (self-styled), since there are so many people in this multi-part thread who have been obsessive posters of images it would be rude of me to grab that title.

It was an honour to even be considered, so I'll give my speech anyway in my best Sally Field voice. "You like me, you really really really like me."

No one has accused anyone else of being a "racist hater" on the topic of royals wearing black. If that's how you're reading it, that's definitely on you and not in the comments.

If the images offend or bore you, please feel free to avert your fucking gaze. And since you appear to have a PhD in Drama, you can announce that you have blocked me. Collect your Razzie at the door.

I made the mistake of going on celebitchy. Apparently William is horrible to meghan because he is jealous of her and wishes he married someone like her and can't take the attention m and h get.

I love how the DM reports a story with the right touch of incredulousness but goes into great detail about what other people think is going on. Which can't possibly be going on but here look at this video.

The royals spent Boxing Day shooting pheasants out of sky. How Christmasy! Now, there's an event that would be a good excuse to pull a "Camilla heavy cold" EVERY BLOODY YEAR. Some royal traditions are ready to be retired in my opinion and hunting is one of them.

That black suit with the silver trim on Camilla is stunning; not on her, of course.

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Back to William...do tell!!. Ive never heard stories about him being an asshole? Are there specific provable stories that confirm his shittiness? Also, why would William be jealous of Meghan (and Harry's marriage)? He couldve just as easily found some hot sexy British glamour hoe that the public wouldve tolerated. More William stories please! He is a mystery figure.

Does anyone think that Kate is an abused wife? Not necessarily physical but emotional and verbal? Would explain the smokers anorexia look she has these days.

Kate and Wills are very happy together. Kate has not ghosted her family and the two of them are very close to the Middletons; Kate has never isolated her husband from the rest of the BRF; and most of all irritating to the MegStans, they will be ascending to the throne in due time while frantic Nutmeg spins around rhe hamster wheel trying to repair her hortible image.

Edward was a mess. I like Lady Louise's coat but not her hat.

Two of the best dressed - Isla and Savannah Phillips.

Zara's ex-rugby hubby Mike gives Savannah a bear hug.

Sophie looked good.

I love this dress on the young Queen.

The Queen holding baby Edward with a bored Andrew by her side.

Cheeky little Princess Elizabeth of York.

The Queen, Anne and a horse (of course).

This is for the person up thread who said that Nutmeg didn't look directly at the camera at Christmas. Um, yep she did. We can always depend on her for that behavior.

Meghan has spent over a million on clothes - 10 times more than Kate. Something smells fishy.

When she sees a camera, Harry is ignored.

Even if you live in the world of receipts and don’t irrationally hate Meghan, her crazy family has to make things pretty awkward.

[quote]Here's a nice article talking about Meghan's lovely outfit and whatnot for Christmas. Nice to see how well she's blending into the family, and how much the British public likes her.

Courtesy a blog called madaboutmeghan.

It got a Pulitzer, yes, or am I remembering wrongly?

I see a little bit of George in Prince Andrew, at R403. The other day I saw a flash of William. I used to think George was all Michael Middleton - and Charlotte all Carole, for that matter - but you see Windsor features emerging, esp. in Charlotte. They may be... not much to look at, but die Windsors werden nicht ignoriert, Dan.

I dont know R409, in 2016 Dad was getting love letters thanking him for everything, the uncle on the mother's side had gotten her the Foreign Service internship she refused to take the exam for, etc. and then poof they are all evildoers who dont deserve an intro to the latest husband. Sure, a working class American family is gonna be awkward with the BRF, but Megan-wearing-price-tags-on-her-skirt is in some ways worse than they are.

[quote]I made the mistake of going on celebitchy. Apparently William is horrible to meghan because he is jealous of her and wishes he married someone like her and can't take the attention m and h get.

You don't have to go to celebitchy to get that. A few drooling strays stagger through here often enough.

R412 The Markles are not your average working class family. Sam alone is extraordinary in her venom. And then there's the drunken girlfriend-beating, gun toting half-brother with the frequent letter-writing habit. Plus the marijuana entrepreneur nephew.

You couldn't write more colourful characters in fiction.

It illustrates why marriages had to historically be between people of the same social rank. It’s not so much about the individuals, but the families both had something to lose if the other did something embarrassing.

How do you even begin explaining to the Queen your PR team’s plan for dealing with your insane father repeatedly going on television, begging for you to contact him. It’s too much cringe for me. I would, by sheer will, increase my own gravity until I went supernova. Yep, that’s what I would have to do.

[quote] I would, by sheer will, increase my own gravity until I went supernova. Yep, that’s what I would have to do.

Best Plan Ever!

Welp, She Herself could try talking to the guy who gave her everything he could until she couldnt be bothered with him, as opposed to making another lame PR strategy BEFORE she rushed her mark to the altar. But no, the narc figured it was worth it to embarrass and hurt everyone on the way to securing the bag. Remember yall what Megan wants Megan gets.

Meghan looks so lovely in all of these photos!

Oh my word, look at the Christmas Day photo posted on the Duke of York's official Instagram account. Harry hanging his head in seeming depression or shame, Meghan completely blocked out by Charles, just a few blue feathers showing. Wow.

OK, he may be a dick, but if that's deliberate Prince Andrew knows how to throw some platinum class, A+, weapons grade shade.

Haha, i like the comment "the shade has not gone unnoticed." What the hell is wrong with Haz? Mummy is too far away and he doesnt know what to do.

Oh, that is definitely deliberate. MM shouldn't have pulled that stunt at Eugenie's wedding.

R419 I do hope you're being sarcastic. Harry and William are bowing their heads to salute the queen as she leaves. Kate is smiling after having completed her curtsey and Meghan is hidden because she is doing her curtsey.

[quote]Nutmeg hustled Poodle Harry so fast his shalliw head still hasn't stopped spinning.

Having observed couples like this for several decades, I am certain that Harry has played a part in his own demise and is not a hapless victim. Nor do we have actual proof that MeAgain has cut him off from every single friend.

No R423 I wasnt being sarcastic. I didnt see William, and now only the tip of his bald head and dont see MeMe at all, a good thing. Kate is smiling and Charles is walking along.

The shot is from when Harry bowed his head at HM. All the same, Andrew's post is a swipe at Meghan.

Andrews photo doesn't show William either.

R425 Classic case of still image versus video.

It may well be intended as a subtle dig at Meghan, but it's definitely not an image of Harry hanging his head in shame.

Harry hasn't suffered enough to hang his head in shame. Remember, he's not the brightest bulb. He'll still be in the thrall of her pregnancy... if she can't control her cradling in public imagine her at home... she's probably got carpal tunnel. Once the child is here she's got her power play come what may, so then she can really go rogue in saving the royal family... he may notice then when she figures she's really got nothing to lose.

The photo analysis is reaching IMO, but I guess everything is fair game in a gossip thread.

Is this picture going to be the new “Camila MUST be protecting Charlotte from Meghan’s grasp!”

Ugh.

A very close up photo of a young Princess Anne.

Actually, I think the HazBeans still have pretty far to fall before they hit rock bottom. Lots of opportunities for them to be humiliated in various ways.

R419 - Harry is bowing to the Queen as she glides by in her car but I can't help but like "Harry hanging his head in shame" scenario much better.

A couple of comments. First, I read that one of the well-wishers asked Kate if the children had gotten up early. She replied that they got up very early, but she still looked forward to seeing them. So, I think Kate was just very tired. She certainly looks tired.

I was very dubious reading the HM and Prince Charles told the couples to put on a more united front. If that's true, I can imagine that the two princes were told to get their wives on board. Harry has to realize that Meghan has sort of gone rogue, but Kate's behavior has been impeccable. So, I can imagine William, who has always been more serious than Harry, was probably furious to imagine his wife being told to put on a good act. Kate is a team player, and she certainly looked friendly and outgoing. But I really got the impression that William is sick of the whole situation. Harry has always gotten away with the worst gaffes (the Nazi outfit and nude photos), but people seemed willing to forgive him. I don't think people have the same kind of patience with Meghan.

Another point. Eugenie and Meghan seemed rather friendly, which is a testament to Eugenie's good nature. Meghan is very short-sighted. Introducing her non-existent baby bump at Eugenie's wedding was the worst kind of mean girl bitch move one can imagine. Up until then, I was rather indifferent to Meghan. But I surprised myself by just how angry I was at that stunt. And by being short-sighted, remember the York sisters have both lived and worked in the US. And they travel in the same celebrity circles that Meghan aspires to. So, Meghan has risked alienating two of the BRF members who are her most natural allies. Stupid woman, she is.

I think MeMe looks great the picture Prince Andrew posted.

[quote]Introducing her non-existent baby bump at Eugenie's wedding was the worst kind of mean girl bitch move one can imagine. Up until then, I was rather indifferent to Meghan. But I surprised myself by just how angry I was at that stunt.

Believe it or not, there are people who don't give rat's ass about supposedly being upstaged at their events. Perhaps Eugenie is one of them. She was getting plenty of attention, despite The Evil One's antics and may not have taken it as a slight, or may not have taken offense at all due to being a generous person by nature. We'll never know and if Eugenie doesn't seem to be angry about it, why should a total stranger be?

R437 - Eugenie may be good natured but I don't think her parents Andrew and Fergie are inclined to forgive Nutmeg so readily.

Maybe, maybe not. No one in my family would consider her announcement an offense, as we often only see each other at major events and all sorts of proclamations are made at receptions. We have no idea what social skills and mores they consider important. I personally agree with you all that it was tacky, given how the Royals have previously handled announcements, but certainly not worth a stranger getting angry about.

Some people are invested in the BRF. Whatever, it's mild compared to the stans locked in on the wonderfulness of Queen Megan, convinced that soon there will be a commonwealth wide vote on whether not the Glamorous Couple will be #1. Text 9 for Hazbean.

R437 argues we'll never know but, not knowing, proceeds to give the benefit of the doubt on Eugenie's behalf. Apparently she'll never know a little less than anyone else.

Anyway, trying to steal the show with a non-existent baby bump isn't going to provoke anger. Just contempt.

R435 is the queen who was in the famous Diana death scream video. She gets a bit emotional when it comes to the BRF.

I get the feeling that MM is insecure and very out of her depth. I think her big reveal at Euge's wedding was an attempt to be included in the family. But everything she does to try to endear herself or show her worth seems to backfire. All the things that worked in the past - her coy ingenue routine, her lifestyle pronouncements, her casual confidence - just fall flat and meet with disapproval.

Eugenie may not have cared, but Andrew was probably furious. It was a stupid move. For any fence sitters in the family, this most likely cemented their view of her.

Thank you to R372 for your hilarious post. I laughed.

And now back to the rest of our program...

I think for a beginner new to the RF, the idea to keep in mind might be "Less is better." Let people get used to you. Being the newcomer, it's up to you to fit into their world; not expect them to change for you.

Be pleasant to everyone.

Keep your opinions to yourself.

Ask how things are done if you don't know. Where possible, take the advice given by people who are there to help you.

Get the protocol right.

Don't try to push yourself forward.

Make sure your clothes fit.

And don't tell tales out of school.

Show some respect for their "Firm". After all, you wanted to join.

After you have proved yourself trustworthy and genuinely tried to be kind to others in the family, you will have collected some brownie points.

You only get one chance to make a first impression. If you screw that up, it might not be possible to recoup.

R423, the real R419 here. Of course I was being sarcastic. The point is, Andrew knew damn well the “optics“ (ugh, overused word) of this photo when he posted it.

I imagine Eugenie like the rest is trained to act gracious in public at all times regardless of how they feel about the person. Eugenie and Bea are so far removed and down the line it seems extra mean and petty to steal what little thunder they do get.

The only thunder we usually get is our thighs!

Sparkle's mean girl stunt at Eugenie's wedding was nasty and resulted in giving her two angry enemies who have absolutely no reason to let go of their feelings - Andrew and Fergie.

Two veterans of the Royal Family in both good times and bad.

Who know how powerful bad publicity and bad images can be and how they can impact a marriage and lead to unexpected damage.

What a silly move for Sparkle.

Prince Andrew is not a nice man. But whatever shit he throws in Sparkle's direction, she richly deserves. She brought it on herself.

R445, good advice. Simple, really, but who knows what eager-beaver blunders any of us would make in that situation? It's heady, world-stage stuff. Plus if one is an actor, and therefore always "on," it must be hard to turn off and recede into the background. British people are definitely not inclined toward exuberant friendliness, to say the least. I myself have to curb my puppy-dog tendencies around my British friends, and make a conscious effort to pull back. Poor Meghan, in a way - really.

By the way - that "I'm American. We Hug."

IS BULLSHIT.

No we don't.

Perhaps she thinks people in Show Biz hug.

Normal people don't hug strangers.

Granted, this is third-hand-info, but from what I've heard, William is VERY cautious, but can be very cordial once he trusts you - which takes its time and A LOT of confidence on William's side. Apparently he likes to put staff to the test by dropping a hint here and there, watching out if anything of it appears in the press. Minor mistakes are forgiven, but he's adamant and unforgiving when it comes to protecting his family, so you better not mess around with Kate and the kids.

I don't know anything about Wills but I imagine as a father and husband anyone that made his wife cry and reprimanded his 3 year old daughter would be on his shit list.

I should think William is right to be cautious. Imagine the sycophants and users who have surrounded him his entire life, and how he might have turned out under those circumstances. He's clearly one of those children of dysfunctional families who do NOT want to re-enact their parents' dramas.

I really wonder what the tearful frock fitting was about. It's possible Charlotte was running around and Meghan said, "Ah-ah! Honey, we have to stand still and be quiet." Maybe she then turned to the nanny and said something like, "Can you get her to settle down?" Which would have pissed Kate off, because no one speaks to her or hers like that. Typical Frau stuff, just on a higher level. Can't imagine it was anything more dramatic. But boy, does a story like that generate the clicks!

Eager beaver blunders don't earn you headlines like "Meghan Markle ‘is regarded as difficult and demanding by family and staff’" (The Sun); "Meghan Markle 'Duchess Difficult': Why are Meghan’s staff quitting? Another aide to exit" (Express):" Trouble in paradise: Is the honeymoon over already for Meghan Markle?" (The Independent); "Palace denies claims Prince Harry is banned from Boxing Day shoot by wife Meghan" (the Telegraph); "Queen ‘warned Harry about Meghan tiara tantrum’" (The Times.)

[quote] t's possible Charlotte was running around and Meghan said, "Ah-ah! Honey, we have to stand still and be quiet." Maybe she then turned to the nanny and said something like, "Can you get her to settle down?"

No.

The story was Charlotte was fidgeting and Sparkle said "That kid is going to spoil my wedding."

I find it hard to believe Meghan would have been too involved in Charlotte’s fitting.

There’s no need for it. Plus, Allthe wedding garb was pretty sloppily done. And, Meghan really doesn’t strike me as a detail oriented person.

U wonder what really happened.

I thought the story about Charlotte's dress fitting was that MM said "she's going to ruin the wedding". I think it would have had to be something stronger than "hold still dear" for postpartum Kate to be brought to tears and for Charlotte to report it back to her father. Again the departure of key staff, the lack of denial and the detailed reporting of the story speaks to MM reallllly rubbing people the wrong way.

Meghan’s wedding WAS quite shambolic, but not because of Charlotte.

I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw that shitty wedding dress. And, Meghan’s hair looked like she just got out of yoga class. Her makeup was pretty, though.

Look, William is probably an unpleasant, spoiled snob. He no doubt has been a dick to Meghan. But he's gonna run the show one day, and Meghan abandoned her family (perhaps with reason) and eagerly joined his own. If she's upset he didn't kiss her ass when by all tradition she should have been kissing his, then she really DIDN'T know what she was getting herself into.

Now it's probably too late, because unpleasant spoiled snobs tend to hold lifelong grudges against people who don't pay them the proper obeisance.

The DoY or his people selected it to highlight Hazza's bald patch and to erase MM from the shot. Touche.

I thought there was a story too that Meghan spoke sharply to Maria Barolo (sp?), the Norland nanny to the Cambridge children and that's when Kate said, listen, I beat my own servants, thank you very much. Then Meghan threw a glass of wine in Kate's face and it was on.

I am certain the first half of the first sentence is close to the truth. The rest sounds great though, yeah?

[quote]Look, William is probably an unpleasant, spoiled snob. He no doubt has been a dick to Meghan.

Oh, no doubt, because that tabloids run stories about what dick William is all the time.

Sorry, sharpie, the worst the media has said about this mess and William is that he told the Queen Meme might not be a suitable wife.

And lo and behold...

[quote] The source explained: “Her and Kate fell out when she b******ed Kate’s staff."

From Dan Wootten's story in the Sun. They broke the story about Meghan berating Kate's staff. That for sure sounds like a well placed royal insider.

Kensington Palace denied the claim the Meghan yelled at Kate's staff. Noticeably, they didn't deny the tiara story or the "Meghan made Kate cry at a dress fitting" story.

Hmmmmm...

R419 - Don't be an arse. Harry was bowing to the Queen not hanging his head.

The Sussexes give us quite enough material for contempt without false interpretations of one snap.

That said, it is rather amusing that in the York Instagram ,Meghan's image is . . . er . . . missing.

Upthread I commented on how perfect Isla and Savannah looked. Glad to see others agree! These two will be fun to watch in coming years. Actually quite a big generation of young royals coming up.

I was referring to the “optics,” R466. Sorry, I should have spelled it out more plainly for you. No need to call me an arse.

R465 - The really salient stories that no one has EVER denied are indeed Tiara Gate, Harry screaming, "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets," the reports of abuse of staff on the tour, and Meghan ghosting her father after years of telling the world how wonderful he was and how much she owed him and loved him. Then there's the Vanity Fair article before the engagement was even announced, and the extremely foolish threats to the British press a year before the engagements.

Just that handful of items tells you everything you need to know about Meghan Markle - follow those up on the second tier with her really absurd wardrobe choices particularly at events where others are dressed like, well . . . royals, the cloying and clutching at Harry, her placement at the Remembrance Day ceremonies (day and evening) and bring booted out of London to Frogmore Cottage. . .

This is the stuff that tells the real story, no matter what the Queen or Charles made Kate and William and Meghan and Harry do on one walk to St. Mary's, or the Queen having Meghan ride with her and Philip to the Boxing Day hunt.

After all, Andrew and William would hardly have let her ride with them, would they?

Somehow I can’t see Harry screaming “what Meghan wants, Meghan gets.” I can see him making what he thinks is a reasonable statement – i.e., she’s the bride, it’s her choice. But something like that is easily blown up.

The palace denied that Kate yelled at Meghan. They did not deny that Meghan yelled at the staff.

[quote] Last night a Kensington Palace spokesman said of the row claims: “This never happened.”

Taken from the original story. It's not specific about "this," i.e. Kate yelling, Meghan yelling or any such incident.

Chaz was the one who quoted Haz "what M wants M gets " so yeah, Harry is Megan's equal.

R470 - The "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets!" was in the mainstream Johnson bio, "Charles at Seventy" - Charles and Camilla cooperated with the author. It's a safe bet that if that story hadn't been true, it would never have appeared in that bio.

No one at Clarence House, Buck House, or Kensington Palace has ever bothered to deny it or its connection to Tiara GAte.

R470 The beauty of palace intrigue is in the ambiguity.

Was Harry screaming or being firm about some minor wedding detail? If the statement was in reference to choice of tiara, his sense of entitlement is horrific. If he was insisting on the gospel choir, then certainly even a royal bride should be able to select some of the music for her own wedding.

As unpopular as this might be on DL, I don't think asking for air freshener is terrible. I'm not nostalgic for musty buildings. If she wanted to have scent circulated prior to the wedding, she wouldn't be the first royal bride to have it done. If she wanted to stick Glade dispensers around the room I'd say she's tacky AF. Context matters.

Was she paying for all these extra touches she wanted?

If the BRF is going to go broke over air freshener, the recession must have hit them harder than it seemed.

Anything else to talk about guys? So many horses beaten to death on here. The flies are overwhelming.

Why don't you tell us what to talk about, BRF gossip troll? You seem to know everything else. Maybe some kind speculation about what's wrong with James Severn? You like that. It's fun to dissect children, isn't it?

[quote] "In the build-up to the wedding, says an inside source, he was ‘petulant and short-tempered’ with members of staff.

[quote] Raising his voice on occasion, Harry would insist: ‘What Meghan wants, she gets'."

[quote] The book also details how Harry and his brother William would have "extreme mood swings", with their "volatility" often mirroring that of their mother Diana.

[quote] It says how Charles found it difficult to predict their behaviour, and how he was often 'shocked' at the "level of belligerence" he encountered from his children.

R474 It doesn't seem to have been related to Tiara Gate. Harry's "petulance" is bountiful enough for multiple explosions. It also sounds like Charles has no problem throwing his sons, including his heir, under the proverbial bus.

In the Charles bio, was there any indication of the context or tone of Harry’s comment about what Meghan wants? It’s one of those lines that can sound very different depending on how you deliver it.

As I recall the tone was robotic, that of a dim man child repeating verbatim what he'd been taught to say.

Yes, Charles sounds like an especially shitty father— his prioritizing his romance with Camilla when his children were grieving their mother tells you everything you need to know.

These types are always dumbfounded when the kids push back— “gee, I don’t understand why my kids are so angry...” Really, moron?

I have to say Carole Middleton is one of my favorite supporting players in this Thackerian dramedy. I love imagining the advice she gives to Kate, how to play it in public. “Regal, dear. Regal.”

My money's on [italic]SamMarkle[italic] to [italic]really[italic] stir the pot.

I agree with r484, Carole Middleton is providing the proper advice to keep it future queen like. Pippa on the other hand is providing the snark and tabloid updates and I imagine Kate has a special burner phone she uses just to call Pippa just gossip, complain and rant.

The Middletons are a stark contrast to the Markles.

Seriously, why TF didn't the Queen and Prince Charles say fuck, yes; marry no. He could have done better.

Really Carole must be the proudest woman in all of England. Marrying off those daughters so well. That decade of courtship between Kate and William must have been nervewracking in many ways. So much invested.

[Quote]I thought there was a story too that Meghan spoke sharply to Maria Barolo (sp?), the Norland nanny to the Cambridge children and that's when Kate said, listen, I beat my own servants, thank you very much. Then Meghan threw a glass of wine in Kate's face and it was on.I am certain the first half of the first sentence is close to the truth. The rest sounds great though, yeah?

We'll have to wait for the Real Royal Housewives reunion to see for sure.

I don't know whether Carole Middleton created the circumstances or steered the ship direct to port and I don't care... at least those young women know how to behave, how to dress and the whole family have kept their collective mouths shut. For all the gossip and crap shovelled about them, they've showed remarkable dignity. And, to the best of my knowledge, have never worn a price tag in public.

I do feel sorry for Meghan as far as her family goes. I wouldn’t want my embarrassing relatives wrecking my entrance Into the world’s most famous family.. But since they were going to be a problem no matter what, she probably should’ve had them at the wedding. Then iced them out after perhaps.

I know, when from all accounts, she's treated them so well....

The problem with Meghan's family is that they can't resist selling their stories to the press. If Meghan calls any of them, or writes, there will quickly be an 'Exclusive' on the DM, with quotes from any phone conversation, and copies of any letters or cards Meghan sends them. I'm not a MM supporter, but she's in an impossible position with them. And, being a cynic, I think she comes from a family of users and grifters, and that's where she honed her own skills. Harry actually called her father, and he asked him about Trump and Brexit, and Harry gave some non-committal answers, which Markle then shared with the press (huge protocol lapse, since Harry is never supposed to share political opinions), and then Markle said he hung up on Harry. So, who's really at fault, here? The Markles have shut themselves out.

I agree, R439, and this is why I wish the Royal Family had been snobbish and ruthless about this marriage. She is a bad fit. Everything about her is a bad fit (and everything she's revealed about herself since make it an even worse fit.). But to agree to him marrying this divorced American actress, with no familiarity with anything to support her in her new role, no appreciate of British tradition or history... what the hell were they thinking?

I know Harry is further from the the throne almost yearly but yet they also had to know that right now Harry and whoever he married would get a lot of media attention. So why allow a no hoper into the mix? They've come a long way from the good old days when the ruthless, implacable Queen Mother made Wallis Simpson disappear from British life. They could use a dose of unforgiving shrewdness. They botched up Diana on the way in and out and now they've botched this.

The DM going for broke, once again (sorry BRF troll! It's news related). Big headline story re Kate's simple preppy days at Marlborough, and all the loyal posho pals she made there who've stuck with her thru thick and thin as she transitioned into her regal, royal life.

Right immediately below, the headline: "Meghan Markle boasted to friends about giving out marijuana in party bags to guests at her first wedding in Jamaica where cannabis was illegal". Seriously, you couldn't make it up. Like who they favor, and who they don't.

Sorry was agreeing with R493, not R439, who seems to think the royal family should follow her own family's example. Which seems neither desirable nor practical.

R483 “prioritizing”? In what way? He spent time with his sons in the aftermath, what do you expect him to do - wear a hair shirt and vow never to speak to Camilla ever again? Grow the fuck up.

[quote] why allow a no hoper into the mix?

Outside of the haters and the stans most people couldn't give a toss about the royals so they're not losing public support for the institution. Besides, this is a country that enjoys football hooligans far more than it cares for dukes. If Fergie can have her triumphant return, I wouldn't count Meghan out just yet. The worse thing that could happen is if her father died before they arrive at a détente. Samantha keeps mentioning it because that is Meghan's Hiroshima.

R495 Ha! Yeah it's news, or at least a bit of fresh meat to feast on. I think that Carole is back in full force working PR for Kate, same as she was way back in the day. That story is a classic Carole plant. She's "worked" many times with the DM, and she is doing quite the job here with the DMs "compare and contrast" shtick. She used to be a bit of a gadfly to the BRF, now they are probably sucking her toes in thanks. Sorry for the visual. As r488 alluded, she's worked damn hard to get her daughters settled well. When MM caused waves for Kate in whatever way, shape or form, she made an enemy out of Carole. With Carole at the figurative wheel, who needs tunnels?

Haha yes Carole is the pivotal character in this movie.

Good catch, R394.

Harry sucks. And this is exactly what he wants. Everybody has to deal with him, from his grandmother to fucking little Princess Charlotte. He threw a stink bomb into the royal family, then stands back and whines "Deal with it!" And they fucking DO. Kate has to skip Xmas with her family to be buffer between Harry and William and pretend everything's fine, and HARRY LETS HER DO IT. He doesn't say, no no, this is on me, my wife, my family, my responsiblity. Eugenie's wedding is hijacked by Meghan's coat stunt, en entire tour was turned into the Meghan and her bump road show - a bigger waste of money has never recently been considering that zero good was done the people, organizations, programs, entities and countries they visited, down to and including Invictus, where they just showed up to spotlight themselves and grab applause. It's not Kardashian-ification of the BRF, it's the weakness that's exposed. HM's own stalwart performance of her job has, for years, hidden her absolute USELESSNESS when it comes to the malfeasance of her family. She is weak. Harry should get the boot. Instead every body else has to dance around and enable him and his wife.

Fergie, for all of her ridiculousness and consummate tackiness, was likeable. Meghan is not.

I predict that when all is said and done, Harry will end up married as frequently as his balmy Uncle Charles Spencer.

In one of the royal documentaries, it was mentioned that both Harry and William were somewhat distant from Diana at the time she died. William alludes to it when he talks about making short work of her call - the last time he'd speak to her. Diana lived at KP but she had no country retreat where she and her sons could sort of tramp around in total privacy. So when her sons visited they were all either trapped together at KP or they were on vacation (they joined her on her Dodi jaunt for a bit). Normal life was more stressful than it was with Charles, who had many more buffers in place that allowed his sons to feel free. Namely, acres and acres, miles and miles of land and numerous homes.

You mean "barmy" uncle Charles, r504?

But r502 if you hear the stans they will claim the tour was a massive success. The crowds, the applause, the "great pr". No other royal tour garnered as much great press. H&M should be sent to every country. How do we reconcile these two opposing views? Serious question.

Oh if HM boots Harry does she also boot Andrew for the embarrassing ex-wife he keeps so close and her sale of indulgences? What about the Tampon Twins, Charles and Camilla? They were way more of a storm than Harry and Meghan's tempest in a teacup.

R503 I like Fergie and I like Meghan. Camilla has become as stable as an anchor. Kate seems well prepared to become a great queen consort. Industrious Anne and dependable Sophie are well suited for the roles they play in the family. The minor players on the side like Fergie and Meghan keep it interesting as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, kicking people out sends a bad message. The public might have a mind to kick the lot of them out. Can't have that.

I think Charles will be indulgent and strive for delay, like his mother, when it comes to dealing with difficult situation en famille. Meme will be safe for a long time before she goes too far. I reckon she will have divorced him before they'd force her out. If they even would, she'll become less and less relevant as time goes by, both in her husband's proximity to the throne and her own erosion of whatever regard she has at this point. Over time she will become increasingly undignified. She'll be Princess Alice Gloucester by the time William takes the throne and lucky for it... he may prove to be a tough nut.

Yes, R506, thanks. Typed it wrong, hit send before I noticed. :(

What do we predict for Baby Sussex name? I’ll say.....Alexandra, Victoria. Something grand.

“I think Charles will be indulgent and strive for delay, like his mother, when it comes to dealing with difficult situation en famille. ” - I agree, and really, what else can they do?

R511, I'd bet Elizabeth or Phillip or Charles, to suck up.

Once Harry reverts to type and starts cheating on her, MM will be out the door as soon as she has her ducks in a row, either a fat settlement or husband no.4 in her sights. She will look back on her days in the BRF as the worst job she ever had.

[quote] Mrs Patching added that her new pupil loved lasagne and pasta bakes but that Kate ‘always stayed very slim’.

Carole seems to be hitting back at those persistent comments that Kate is looking too thin.

“reverts to type“ - see, this is what I think. Mind you, I hope not.

I think it’s fraternal twins, and I’m leaning towards Arthur and Alexandra.

Camilla seems likeable, but it was quite shocking that she and Charles began making official appearances together only a little more than a year after Diana’s death. The boys supposedly opposed this. I remember thinking it was incredibly tacky of them and feeling very sorry for the boys.

[quote] Once Harry reverts to type and starts cheating on her, MM will be out the door

LOL. I highly doubt Meghan or Kate would walk away for cheating. I doubt Kate would walk away for any reason. Carole would barricade the door before she let that happen. Meghan would certainly make sure she had a parachute before jumping or being pushed.

Is Anne's marriage thought to be troubled. He never looks happy and barely seems to notice that she is nearby.

I suspect that if it's a boy it will be Charles and if it is a girl it will be Diana.

That's the kind of cunts Harry and Muggin are.

The naming of SohoBébé may go in a new direction, something that might get mommy a little push present. Mercedes Givenchy Cartier for a girl or Harry Winston Audi for a boy?

I think it will be some cute Hollywood trendy name like Madyssen or Finn.

R511 If a girl, I really worry that they'll call her Diana. They are both idiots. If they can't see that shutting out her family would cause problems, then they probably can't see that saddling a child with that name will be a bad idea. They may brown nose and call her Elizabeth.

If a boy they'll brown nose with Charles or Philip.

But who will be godparents is my question? She literally has no real friends. If she tries to make Clooney or that Jessica woman godparents, they will be flayed in the press. Kate and William or the York girls are the obvious choices but it's obvious that all is not well with the siblings, in-laws, or cousins. Maybe Zara and Peter will get the call.

^^^^ agreed and each wife will be just awful.

R525 was referring to R504

I predict that the baby will have some awful name like Madisyn or Apple.

My bet on Baby Girl Sussex is Mary or Margaret. Assuming nothing has changed from the time Markle revealed the initials as MM, like herself. More troubling is the genetic lottery. Some biracial children are stunningly beautiful, others unfortunately are not. Babies especially can be problematic. Imagine a dark baby with frizzy red hair. Or, if we are lucky, a girl w/Diana's blue eyes and face, and black hair and creamy skin.

What is this obsession people have with her having a dark skinned baby? Not that it would be a problem but she is half white. The baby will be 3/4 white. Given the lightness of the mother (her ability to pass for white) it is highly likely that the baby will also look white. Even more so than Markle.

Mary and Margaret are lovely names. Were I to try to brown nose the Queen, choosing her beloved sister’s name would be my choice.

She is not that white our Duchess . She wants people to believe she’s white but she ain’t !

She'd be so much more...tolerable, I think, if she was a decent woman who genuinely embraced her blackness. What a positive role model IF she had just a shred of integrity, intelligence and graciousness, and wasn't so hell bent on being just another rich, white, vacuous celebrity.

You forgot Meusli, R526. She could easily name the baby Meusli.

R531

R527 It's a lottery when it comes to ANY baby, asshole.

Diana's beauty lied in her presence and warmth. Her face was never classically beautiful or even pretty.

The baby should wish to inherit meghans tawny skin instead of the english pale complexion that turns ruddy very quickly and ages like milk left under the hot sahara sun.

Instead of dissecting the unborn child's looks we should hope it turns out healthy (mentally), with windsor genes it's not a sure thing.

George has brown eyes and little louis has black slanted eyes.

I always thought George's blond hair looked brassy, like they put in sun-in in his hair or shampoo for blondes. Looks slightly unnatural and bleached.

Poor char looks like carole with those beady eyes.

Louis' eyes aren't black. It's a mixture of a very dark brown with some dark blue in it, that's why this eye colour gives the impression of being black.

His eyes are just a bit darker than George's who has a pretty interesting mix-up, speaking of eye colour and hair colour. Dark brown eyes and strawberry blond hair. Gorgeous.

R531 is the blackness police. Biracial women must present like Tracee Ellis Ross. That Maya Rudolf blackness is clearly self-hatred.

Snappy comeback, R537.

In the black community it's not snappy nor is it trying to be. It's just truth.

Are royals ever allowed to wear fur? A photo of Queen Mary with a big fluffy fur collar made me wonder. They always wear those plain wool coats (although in wonderful colors sometimes). Is it too controversial?

Oh, yeah!

Nip the racial shit, however covert you think you are being. Thank you.

Another thread ruined.

Kate's alpaca hat.

New aggressive Harkle PR offensive -- On one of my email feeds today with big pic:

DID MEGAN GET THE COLD SHOULDER? --Inside, story with video dissecting how Wills didnt stop tying his scarf instead of chatting to MeMe. ONGOMGOMG

I doubt Princess Margaret wore faux fur

The Queen, in her end game, has apparently said fuck it and it back to wearing fur more frequently in a private capacity, having worn it only very occasionally to avoid the animal rights whingers. Ermine can't be excluded, obviously, you gotta wear the work clothes.

As I said earlier, the Sussexes will use the baby's name to curry favour with Charles and HM, with the possible exception of sticking it to them by saddling a daughter with the iconic"Diana". But they'll want to go noble and aristo and use Elizabeth, Victoria, and Alexandra in combination with Diana and possibly Mary for the Queen's grandmother.

I would bet a month's pension on a boy being used to do homage to Charles, especially as he holds the real purse strings these days and they'll want him to settle a second trust on his "spare". Then, of course, there's Charles's beloved uncle, Lord Louis Mountbatten, but of course, the Cambridges have already used it twice, as well as getting in first with Alexander and Arthur.

Then there's the matter of flattering the Queen by including the name of her beloved father, Bertie. As the Cambridge's already have snapped up "George" (her father reigned as King George VI) and Harry himself carries "Albert" (the King's given Christian name), my guess for a boy will be Charles Albert Henry or Charles Henry Albert - possible use of fourth name "Philip" - again to flatter the Queen.

Diana Victoria Elizabeth, Diana Elizabeth Alexandra, Elizabeth Diana Mary, Elizabeth Victoria Diana . . . they'll do something like that.

Charles Albert Henry Philiip, Charles Henry Albert Philip . . . they'll do something like that.

It will all be calculated to curry favour at the top and let the world know that MeAgain's offspring IS ROYALTY!

[quote] That story is a classic Carole plant. She's "worked" many times with the DM,

Prove that please because it's the kind of wild, baseless speculation that gets accepted as gospel. If it seems credible to you find, but be honest about it, rather than stating it definitively... unless of course you've got some proof.

So i missed the Boxing Day hunt -- did Nutmeg let Haz go this year, unlike last?

December 24, 2017 -- PRINCE HARRY WONT PARTICIPATE IN BOXING DAY TRADITION FOR MEGAN MARKLE....

The Mail said she met them for lunch at Wood Farm, travelling there with the Queen and the Duke of E.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

If I was them I would lie my face off about the provenance of my furs and wear what I liked when I liked.

Double points for upsetting Meme.

R553, indeed. I would, too.

Sounds like some people don't know that Diana has already been used to name a royal offspring.

Were the Cambridges currying favour or sucking up when they named their daughter Charlotte Elizabeth Diana? Or were they honouring their heritage?

Well, I would guess you'd have to decide whether you think the Cambridge's made sincere, thoughtful choices or made choices for effect. I leave it to you how to distinguish between the two.

Sucking up/honoring heritage = same thing really. Both wise moves in that family. Who in the RF have oddball names? I suppose Savannah and Isla are not "royal" but they're very traditional.

R556 I do't know either couple and don't guess at their sincerity or lack there of.

I think a bold choice Meghan and Harry could make would be to include the name Thomas if they have a boy. It could be an olive branch to her father, but who know if he would just take it and build a bonfire.

^^^don't

R556 No, but we have scented candles.

Jo Malone scents filled Westminster Abbey

Middleton wanted to be reminded of her favorite scents on her wedding day, so she enlisted perfumer Jo Malone for the job. Among Kate's picks were Malone's Orange Blossom, Grapefruit, and Lime, Basil & Mandarin scented candles — all of which were placed throughout the venue during the ceremony.

r549 Carole was well known for her PR plants far before, and even after, Kate finally got the ring. Tanna the photog on Twitter was in her pocket until he wasn't but he did much to help her vision. She was not liked by many, and was seen as a hardcore climber for her and her girls. A bit too showy (see the signet rings she had the family sporting after the wedding) She was just a bit too much. But I have to hand it to her, she got what she wanted and has since rolled back instead of trying to push further. If you need proof, look no more than the articles before, and right after, Kate got hitched. Many "old timers" remember Carole's machinations. I will give it to her, she did a good, if rather OTT at times job.

Names for baby

Girl

Juliet

Violet

Victoria

Mary

Margaret

Rose

Boy

August

Philip

Alexander

My pick? Juliet Doria Diana and August Philip Charles

R562 I didn't know about the signet ring on the pinky. I love it!!!

Carole Middleton for the win.

I also love Pippa Middleton's use of her right hand for all tasks.

^^left hand. My bad

Love it, r565. Mike resists wearing his , but resisting Carole is...difficult... *cough*

Juliet or Violet would be nice choices, traditional but with a bit of boho to them..

I’m delighted by what Carole Middleton pulled off. I do love a successful climb. Actually Meghan is to be commended also. But she needs to realize that she doesn’t need to climb or strive anymore, she’s there.

Yeah, r569 I do have to say Carole was never a fave of mine, but she did learn to pull back and work the backchannels exactly how she needed to. At first I did not think she had that in her, but, begrudgingly, I have to give that dame some serious props for knowing how to read and work a room.

Carole is so OTT it makes me feel embarrassed for her.

Can you imagine what she will do when William divorces Kate!? She will have a nervous breakdown.

"AFTER ALL THE CHEESE ON TOAST I MADE FOR YOU! YOU UNGRATEFUL BRAT. I WAS THE MOTHER YOU NEVER HAD!! I MADE YOU!!"

Fancy getting rid of her, she is rumoured to live in KP in her own big flat.

I love this Queen Elizabeth Coronation figurine.

I must ask...is cheese on toast the same as an American grilled cheese sandwich or is it different? My English ex insisted it was totally different. My English and much better hung lovah insisted it was similar, just made with sharper cheddar. Thoughts?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

According to one university friend: "As soon as Pippa arrived at Edinburgh, she was assiduous about joining the right social circle.

"At Edinburgh, the aristo crowd are divided into two social sets - one crowd who go to London for the weekend and are really into partying and hard drinking and the other who are more staid and go off to each others' country houses for weekends.

"Pippa joined the country set. She was very charming about it but quite ruthless in cultivating the "right" friends.

"If she found out that someone had impressive social credentials - the right title, standing, connections - she would immediately pay them a lot of attention where before she wouldn't have shown the least interest.

"She would leave notes in the pigeonholes of people she coveted as friends, desperate to arrange a time or date to meet.

"She was always well turned out to the point of being prim, always conscious of projecting the "right" image and, if she heard of other girls' "naughty" behaviour - too much drinking or partying or risque behaviour - she'd pull a face like there was a bad taste in her mouth."

Watch this video. I think the real strain is between the two brothers. I don't think Will approves of Sparkle.

The Cubitt-Shand tiara is worn by Camilla and her daughter Laura.

Wow, good article from 2007. Enjoyed that. Especially the insight into Pippa. She really is the Lee to Kate’s Jackie. But the whole saga underscored what nerves of steel it took to land William. The breakup must have been devastating for everyone.

Let's try this again. Here is the Cubitt-Shand tiara worn by mother and daughter.

I rather admire Pippa for avoiding the hard partners. Very strategic and smart. What I wouldn’t give to have heard Carole instruct the girls, like the mother in a Jane Austen novel.

Recall, though, that all climbers are not created equal.

A loving mother would never have let that happen.

Will the Britsh royal family thread nanny self-destruct if someone beats her to starting a Part 12? I hope we find out!

Ooh, thanks for that r547 sounds quite right. I kind of miss the "Wisteria Sisters" r575 I look forward to having a bit of an enjoyable claw in that article.

The two Spencer women who went out with Prince Charles - Sarah dated him and Diana married him.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HATE DM AND DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM CLICKS

Like Kate, Pippa attended Marlborough and, like Kate, her university ascent into the social elite was rapid. By the end of her university days, she could count Ted Innes-Ker and George Percy as flatmates - the sons of the Dukes of Roxburghe and Northumberland respectively.

And her boyfriend, who graduated two years before her, is JJ Jardine Patterson, an Eton friend of Edward and George and scion of a highly successful Hong Kong banking family.

"She met JJ through the boys," a friend said. "It really wasn't the family millions that attracted her to him but the social cachet."

Someone else who has met Pippa on many occasions recalled her as: "A charming girl who hung out with absolute toffs, most of whom are named after counties.

"She is incredibly well mannered and well-brought up. At dinner she always makes sure to speak to the person seated to her left and right.

"She has a lovely figure, much better than Kate's really. She's a very keen and aggressive tennis player. A mother's dream, in many respects.

"But she makes no secret at all of being very socially ambitious - almost aggressively so. She wants power and money."

Which explains perhaps, in part, the mixed feelings that Pippa has expressed to friends since her big sister split from her famous boyfriend.

According to one: "Pippa absolutely loved the fact that Kate dated William because of the cachet it brought but she's also quite pleased Kate's single again.

"She sometimes felt that her mum and dad tended to put Kate first, above her and her brother James, when she was dating William simply because of the extra responsibilities and practical considerations that went with that.

"And she was a little bit jealous that her sister was dating the future King of England.

"It didn't help that James, who's also at Edinburgh, would go around saying, "My sister's going to be the Queen of England." He can be very indiscreet.

"Also, Pippa's glad to "get her sister back". The two are very close and she never got to spend much time with Kate when she dated William. Kate would always put William first."

Indeed, Kate put William before all other considerations - personal and professional.

It is worth noting that, since their split, she has been promoted from assistant accessories buyer to accessories buyer for High Street store Jigsaw.

Pippa is similarly bright, but she is yet to fall upon a career path of her own. She enjoys travel and writing and has expressed an interest in journalism.

However, such thoughts are not foremost in the girls' minds this summer.

Instead, Pippa has moved into the Chelsea home that the girls' parents Carole and Michael bought for Kate and, according to a friend: "The two of them are enjoying being quite girlie together.

They have a mobile tanner who comes round and does their spray-on tan. They love shopping on the Kings Road.

They get ballet pumps at French Sole and Pippa loves Chloe clothes and has her hair done in Richard Ward's VIP section just like Kate.

"Kate gets sent a lot of free clothes and gifts and Pippa is very keen to get in on the action as far as that's concerned. She's happy to go along to parties and events on Kate's coat-tails."

Certainly there has been no shortage of invitations. On Wednesday, the girls will be at Mahiki - a favourite haunt of Prince William and the site of his infamous I'm Free! 'celebration' following his split from Kate.

The marketing for the club is looked after by Guy Pelly and it is Guy who is believed to have invited Kate and Pippa to Wednesday's Johnny Cash-themed party.

Kate and Pippa have also been invited to Richard Branson's pre-Wimbledon party - and have received invitations to the members' enclosure for the tournament.

R583, she's already created it. I think she's at #45234. Got to stay of top of things. Now please, stay on topic or delicate feet will stomp.

True all climbers are not the same, but Meghan did very well with what she had. She didn’t have big money, connections, a supportive family or a wily mother. She wasn’t even from England. So in a way she pulled off the bigger coup. Frankly when I ponder this, I find myself going from being a hater to a sugar. I also think people are piling on a little too hard right now, while she’s expecting. Team Meg!

The Middletons sound absolutely lovely and the BRF is lucky to have Kate.

Thank you, R576. I was going to ask someone to post a link to the "William tying the scarf" video some people mentioned.

Wow.

William and Harry are completely ignoring each other.

And clearly William is waiting for Kate to step in between him (William) and Sparkle.

I really don't think William would be happy that it was Kate who had to step into the breach and spend so much time with Sparkle making nice since Sparkle is the shit stirrer in these scenarios.

And then Sparkle tops the walk off with the hand on Kate's back maneuver. Sparkle really is a piece of work.

Expect skyrockets to celebrate when Sparkle and Dim exit KP for Frogmore.

Sorry, I meant r575 and r575 !

The art of climbing isn't arriving, it's lasting.

R583, Have at it! I'm about to go to sleep some more. I love the Holidays for this alone!

R586 - the only difference between two Middleton sisters than any other ambitious girl trying to get ahead in life is the fact that they're middle class and not aristocratic. There was and continues to be a lot of snobbery in the way the press portrays the family. Their attitude: how dare those upstarts try to marry up. They should know their station in life.

Wouldn't you guess Sparkle is now going hardcore divide and conquer? She probably put her hand on Kate's back expressly for the purpose of antagonizing Kate. Unless she was putting a knife in.

Plus one thing about the aristocracy, they know who they are. They don't let just anybody in the ranks so if they took to Pippa or Kate or anybody, it was because they had something to recommend them.

I know R590, right? I have seen narcs go into families and proceed straight for the jugulars to turn people against each other. She really shouldnt try to eff with the brother bond, or the marriage one for that matter, because number one it is so obvious, and two it will come back around...badly. Note that Poodle Harry aporoves, for now.

Not sure what you mean 583 but it sounds scratchy. Please let me know if I took it the wrong way. :{

[quote]Plus one thing about the aristocracy, they know who they are. They don't let just anybody in the ranks so if they took to Pippa or Kate or anybody, it was because they had something to recommend them.

That "something" is cold hard cash. It's the Middleton millions that recommend the girls, not their manners, as impeccable as those might be.

We need a new thread Part 12.