Hillary Clinton says Europe needs to curb migration to counter nationalism

Full quote:

[quote]Clinton said the continent had to deal more firmly with the issue, or risk its exploitation by populists such as Trump. "The use of immigrants as a political device and as a symbol of government gone wrong, of attacks on one's heritage, one's identity, one's national unity has been very much exploited by the current administration here," she said.

[quote]"There are solutions to migration that do not require clamping down on the press, on your political opponents and trying to suborn the judiciary, or seeking financial and political help from Russia to support your political parties and movements." Clinton said she was still "dumbfounded" by her defeat in the 2016 election, and said populist candidates are speaking to people's emotions.

[quote]"There is this tension. I don't fully understand it. I think it's as much psychological, maybe more than political, as to what people are yearning for. I mean, freedom is burdensome. It's hard getting up and taking responsibility for yourself and trying to make all these decisions," she said.

[quote]The former candidate also criticized the media, who she said were not well equipped to cover "these candidates who are setting themselves on fire every day, who are masters of diversion and distraction."

And what do you think, OP?

I love it how globalist Hillary and her ilk have adopted the notion that "nationalism" is evil - with a veiled allusion to "National Socialism." Nationalism is fine when they political establishment wants to take us to war, but it's "evil" if it impedes the ability of the powers-that-be to shuffle millions of people around the world for their own gain.

She's running.

She's saying it in a very calculated, "back ass" way to appease her masters, as if mass migration wasn't the problem but "nationalism" is. Since when is it evil that France be French, England be English, Germany be German, etc.? If this argument were made even 20 years ago it would end a politician's career.

r2 I think she's partially right, r2. But I'm not sure if, at this point, curbing migration is going to make the problem go away

Once again, what she said is being misreported by the media. What a shocker.

If she had said this in 2016 she would have won.

This is what she said:

[quote]“You deport the bad actors, you deport the criminals, you deport people who have some other kind of threat to our national security. People who have been here for a long time, you have a cut-off point and after that point, they have to learn English, they have to pay taxes, they have to follow the law, they have to wait in line, and you have a process.

[quote]“For people who then keep coming, you turn them back, unless they qualify for asylum, which has been in our law for hundreds of years.”

That is NOT merely "curbing immigration."

I agree if she said this in 2016 she probably would've won.

She’s right and could have won. She’s right about the growing Populist movement, but what ELSE will Europe face if they don’t get a hold on immigration?

Yeah sure. Give Nazis what they want and they're guaranteed to go away. You betcha.

*rolls eyes*

“These candidates who are setting themselves on fire every day, who are masters of diversion and distraction”

That’s a great quote. Perfectly sums up Trump’s game. Constant drama and distractions so people don’t focus on the core criminality. And the media is complicit in playing along - making his asinine tweets the news story of the day. Hopefully this horror will tune people in to the game the Rethuglicans are playing - though most are too ignorant, blindly allegiant or ensconced in Fox-world to pay attention.

She's right. Merkel made a huge mistake. She should have had the EU send money to Libya, Jordan, and Turkey, as they did later, to hold back the migrants.

Let's not forget that the migrant crisis in Europe was triggered by the Obama administration's support of revolutions in the Middle East, at which time Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State.

Hillary's ability to duck blame and then prescribe a solution for a dire problem she's responsible for is absolutely consistent with who she is. She has a lot of nerve.

Merkel took a gamble that will probably pay off for Germany in years to come. They needed to offset a population contraction, which ultimately happened, though chaotically.

The migrant crisis has its origins in the Iraq war.

R15, tell us about the population issue. Can automation and temporary workers offset some of the problems? Or does it require slow but steady growth of the population, to pay pensions?

[R15] Only many of the migrants are unskilled, on the dole and living in unassimilated ghettos where the German police fear to tread and where Sharia law rules. It's much more complex than taking X person from Y country and assuming it will all end happily.

Imagine the replies here if Bernie had said that.

This is just proof that Hillb0ts aren't really progressive, nor are they supportive of "identity politics" issues. They just pretend they are so they can make Bernie out to be a racist when he focuses on economic inequality.

I don't think she is at all, but it would be so great if Hillary were just trolling the deplorables. "Hillary says to curb migration, so I say OPEN ALL THE BORDERS!"

How is this not correct? The migrant crisis and the continued flow has led to the rise of populists movements, parties, and governments across Europe. Hungry, Poland, Austria, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Italy — all over, heavy migration (now much lower) is activated resentment and xenophobia. Spain has a socialist government that's welcoming migrants, but opinion is starting to change there, too.

Australia joins opposition to the migration pact.

Israel.

Israel

Switzerland

Estonia

“The problem is not migration itself but the fear of migration, which is worse,” he said. “The true narrative of the populist is a message that presents the future as a place of problems – about jobs we will lose and how migrants will steal the future”.

Clinton articulated a position that she felt Democrats should adopt on immigration in the US, where there are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants, as Trump exploits fear of migrants to inflame his political base.

Democrats, she said, must never stoop to treating migrants cruelly. “You deport the bad actors, you deport the criminals, you deport people who have some other kind of threat to our national security. People who have been here for a long time, you have a cut-off point and after that point, they have to learn English, they have to pay taxes, they have to follow the law, they have to wait in line, and you have a process.

“For people who then keep coming, you turn them back, unless they qualify for asylum, which has been in our law for hundreds of years.”

She is saying politicians use the fear of immigrants to foster racism. This racism helps ferment populist movements like fascism.

She is saying laws regarding refugees and immigrants have been standards for decades and we should follow the law.

She is not saying Merkel is wrong or immigration is bad.

R27 is correct. Nuance and reading the actual interview are important.

[R21] It's the mentality behind the statement. It's not "racist" or "xenophobic" (a stupid neologism cribbed together from pop psychology jargon) to want to preserve the integrity and culture of one's country. No one questions China and Japan's immigration policies. It's self-evident to most people that demographic stability is a wise course for the long-term well-being of a country - but within reason. Desirable immigrant should be heartily welcomed. The U.S. already allows 1,000,000 legal immigrants per year, with over 37,000,000 legal immigrant presently in the country. That's more than generous and might even be too high.

Was mass migration ever voted on by the populaces of the "democracies" it's radically transforming? Of course not because it would have been soundly rejected. It's not the concept of immigration that's the problem - it's the sheer scale of it. For instance, in L.A. County only half or slightly less than half of its residents speak English as a 1st language at home. That's far beyond a reasonable level of immigration.

What is the purpose of it and what is the endgame? If mass migration is destabilizing countries, creating political chaos and increasing the number of dependents, than how is it a wise policy? Who gains from it?

It would also make sense to peg legal immigration rates to economic growth. The low economic growth and low birth rates of Western countries in recent decades make mass migration even more questionable.

I'd like to see a transcript of the entire interview. The media often intentionally misinterpret what she says.

This is a very complicated issue. It was the notion behind NAFTA. If populations are able to make a living and raise families in their own countries, they generally prefer to stay where they are. At the same time, when you have monsters come into power, it creates uproar everywhere. Then layered on top of that is racism and religious intolerance. We're struggling in the US with Trump in office and we have a democracy. Less developed countries fall apart when similar dictators are elected. Look at Syria.

Essentially, while all this is sorted out, migration must be orderly, but we have to continue to help those seeking asylum.

"Xenophobia" is a neologism?

Oh, dear...

Xenophobic, rich narcissist.

As usual, she's right. I'm not even a big fan, but she's rather brilliant.

R27, I'm having a hard time finding the link to the interview itself.

It is funny to see how these european countries support "migrations" from muslim countries while denying asylum to gay people, especially if they come from latin america.for instance the Netherlands wants to deport this gay guy from cuba but if he were muslim Im pretty sure that he would be accepted in a heart beat.

Hillary, GO AWAY! Everyone except a small minority of rich people and diva worshipers hates you! You couldn’t even win an election against the most hated man in the world.

"One of the worst/privileged remarks uttered by Hillary Clinton in this deluded and dangerous interview on refugees is when she says “I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part”.

"WTF? 85% of the world’s refugees are hosted in developing countries!"

Does this suggest she's going to run? I'd so like to see her destroy Trump, but so many seem to have irrational hatred for her.

Thanks, Bernie at R37.

She is completely correct. The migration crisis has its origins with the Iraq war which destablized the entire region. It was only a matter of time before it spread to the point we are at now. Obama made some mistakes as well but nothing on the magnitude of what W did.

You cannot allow that many new people into rather small countries with enormous upheaval. It should have been done differently.

Oh I see the usual Hillary haters have flocking to this thread. They are all alt-right gays or lez's who really hate the left and want to divide us.

[R32] Yes, it is - relatively - late 19th century. But its use has exploded among people such as yourself in recent years.

Fuck this bitch.

[quote] It would also make sense to peg legal immigration rates to economic growth. The low economic growth and low birth rates of Western countries in recent decades make mass migration even more questionable.

This is how it's been done for decades. There have always been periods of low and high immigration unlike now where it's just been a steady flow.

She isn't going to run but I wish she would and beat him.

The irrational hatred of her comes from the right's relentless campaign against her since 1991 which some on here ( I wouldn't call them the left because I think they are anything but left) are willing to use against her at all costs.

[quote] Merkel took a gamble that will probably pay off for Germany in years to come. They needed to offset a population contraction, which ultimately happened, though chaotically.

This is one of the most craziest things I've ever read. Why is it necessary to offset a population contraction with people who don't work but contribute to the rate of inflation, don't have the skills for participating in the new economy, and are seeking to change the culture instead of become part of it? Germany is fucked past the point of no return.

It’s not alt-right gays who are over her. It’s gays with self-respect.

Do a little research and open your eyes. She never fought for gay civil rights, even when people begged her to do something, anything. It even took her a full-year AFTER Obama (himself no gay civil rights freedom fighter, having waited until the SEVENTH year of his presidency to support equal marriage rights) to say she believed gays deserved equality.

We are nothing but her pawns. She will turn on a dime if necessary, just like she is on “migration”.

[R41] You don't know what you're talking about. The Iraq War DID NOT cause the migrant crisis in Europe - and I say that as someone who radically opposed the invasion of Iraq - which happened in 2003. The migrant crisis dates from much, much later.

Obama didn't just "make a few mistakes." Stop covering for your idol.

R48 The Arab Spring did.

R47 and r48 are complete trolls. STFU about Hillary and Obama because you have your preconceived notions and are only here to divide. You know nothing about how the Iraq war destabilized the entire region and the effects took years to manifest.

What R11 said.

Mr Clinton abused his staff; Mrs Clinton abuses our intelligence.

zzzzz r52

[quote] Why is it necessary to offset a population contraction with people who don't work but contribute to the rate of inflation

Uhhh...no, they don't contribute to the rate of inflation.

Strange.

Mr Clinton spurted semen on his staff; Mrs Clinton spurts self-congratulatory, post rationalisations on us.

More fodder for the "Lets be a Russian Troll farm" thread.

Thanks Clinton haters. You never fail to give us fodder for making fun of you.

It was a delight to block r55

r57 I just did and a few posts disappeared. It was great!

Maybe if Hillary and her NATO buddies hadn't overthrown Ghadaffi, they wouldn't have this migrant crisis.

Before Libya, being the richest African country, provided refuge to huge number of refugees from sub-Saharan Africa.

Libya and Benghazi were a disaster; there was no liberty to be had in Libya, R59.

r59 It was a mistake but MuMu Gaddafi was up to no good. He was changing into something far worse than he was before which was bad enough. Was it a mistake? Yes. All leaders make them.

Too late. She's just as good at giving advice as winning elections.

This thread is attracting trolls like moths to a light.

The Libyans loved their leader so much they shoved a metal rod into his anus.

r63 Fuck them. They are so obvious. They want to divide and, like all deplorables, are miserable fucks who want to rile us up by typing all the right wing BS about Hillary. The laugh is on them. They must be all alone on Thanksgiving.

R54 Population growth creates increase in demand. Supply increase is needed to match the demand increase if inflation is to be kept in check. When supply cannot or does not increase with demand growth, inflation can rise quickly.

If you import low skilled workers who are not productive or who are being replaced by automation, then inflation will occur without a doubt. Corporations who cut labor costs rarely pass those savings onto the consumer.

[R62] Agreed. What intelligent person would take this foolish, venal woman seriously? As long as they're willing to pay her, Hillary will show up and talk bullshit. It's the bigoted, native-born citizens of the Western countries being invaded that are the problem, you see, not Hillary's angelic immigrants.

[quote] [R54] Population growth creates increase in demand.

Increases demand for the things that no-skilled, low income immigrants want: which is food (for which there is no real price-raising competition, as it is virtually free from the gov't, soup kitchens, etc) or very cheap. The no-skilled, low income immigrant also has a demand for housing, but in many cases that housing is considered sub-standard here in America and they are not generally competing with Americans to live 10 to an apartment in some flophouse in Los Angeles or Miami.

[quote] Supply increase is needed to match the demand increase if inflation is to be kept in check. When supply cannot or does not increase with demand growth, inflation can rise quickly.

As I said before, only if they are competing against others (ie Americans) for the goods they want in tight markets, which they aren't.

And by the way--inflation is not a measure of prices in certain goods going up. Inflation is a measurement of the purchasing power of the dollar in the aggregate market. And that number is derived from a measurement of thousands of goods, in hundreds of parts of the country (weighted towards cities). If you believe that low-skilled immigrants are causing something of a rental bubble in sub-par housing in certain parts of the US, that does not mean that the purchasing power of our currency in the entire country is being affected. Their are no forex traders worrying about the effects of illegal immigrant housing on T-bills or our equities market or anything else.

[quote] If you import low skilled workers who are not productive or who are being replaced by automation, then inflation will occur without a doubt.

If you "import" low-skilled workers who aren't earning money, and therefore have no money, they are not buying any goods--and therefore are not even part of the marketplace, let alone affecting inflation.

Strange.

I bet some MS-13 dick would be good. They could probably throw a good fuck (as long as they don't kill me). I knew a girl who fucked a gangster and them got a lot of his friends to fuck her. She played a dangerous game but she said the dick was amazing. She was of course bipolar and when she was manic, the gang dick she got was enormous. Never used condoms and I know she had a few abortions.

[R68] Very good post, but I have to disagree about immigrants not driving up housing costs, both at the high and low ends. I live in Los Angeles, where there are indeed whole families living in single units that are often subsidized by the government in one form or another (even if they don't collect under Section 8 they receive food assistance, etc., through other programs). This decreases the available housing stock and renders the single apartment = single person equation moot, which mostly affects younger and older single Americans. At the high-end, much of the new housing is purchased by foreigners (many of them Chinese), who use their condos as rental units and as hedges against political instability in their home countries. This equates to many Americans in the middle not benefiting from the current housing boom. In places like Venice, many Chinese have bought up small houses where they remain empty and prohibitively expensive. The situation has got so severe in Vancouver that measures have been taken so that native-born Canadians aren't entirely displaced by Chinese.

But people like Hillary and Justin give a fuck about such issues because they don't effect them.

r70 And Pres Bone Spurs doesn't give a shit, either.

[quote] This decreases the available housing stock and renders the single apartment = single person equation moot, which mostly affects younger and older single Americans.

Exactly. That may be substandard for a family of 10 but for a single person like me, I'd gladly take it.

There needs to be limits on how many people can occupy an apartment.

And it's not just illegal immigrants driving up the cost of living, but formerly affluent people leaving places like California.

Hilary Le Pen

There is just too much of a good thing in CA.

Hillary is a Republican.

The Chinese elite buying foreign real estate are far more pernicious than immigrants from Central America

R77 bwhahahahahahahahhahaha you're trying toooooooooooo hard troll.

Wouldn't such measures in Canada run afoul of anti-discrimination statutes mentioning racial and ethnic origin?

I bet an Arab refugee family, with women in burqas, moved in next door to Bill & Hillary.

The elites love refugees. But by your house. Not theirs.

[R80] Not certain, but I believe that any restrictions are limited to foreign buyers.

[quote]How is this not correct? The migrant crisis and the continued flow has led to the rise of populists movements, parties, and governments across Europe. Hungry, Poland, Austria, Germany, Sweden, the UK, Italy — all over, heavy migration (now much lower) is activated resentment and xenophobia.

Hillary Clinton is an out of touch idiot.

ANYONE with any sense could see 3 years ago where Merkle's open-door policy would lead.

ANYONE could see three years ago with thousands of Africans showing up on the shores that the Northern League would take over Italy.

Yeah what a genius she is... oh yes...how brilliant!

These clowns created this problem and expected the people of Europe to just sit by and take it.

I think Hillary needs to retire for public life... and enjoy her grandchildren..

[R81] I remember someone posting somewhere that Angela Merkel should be dropped off at night in one of the "no-go" zones she's created and see how she gets along. The rise in rapes in Germany is shocking - almost all of them related to immigrant men, particularly Afghans.

[R85] Yet Merkel is a "feminist" who puts the well-being of women above all else. As does Hillary.

I'm checking out of this racist Hillary hating circle jerk from incels.

Have another lonely holiday.

Longtime female refugee worker gets honest.

Hmmm - someone is positioning themself as a centrist...

The bottom line is that you don't import millions of backass Berbers, with their Medieval thought processes, into civilized, functional First World democracies and not expect complete insanity and a host of problems. It's just common sense.

I supported Hillary in 2008 and 2016 because I felt she was the best America had to offer. And I did not mean that as a compliment.

r91 = troll who started this gem of a thread:

[quote]Let's have a thread only of sweetness and light where there is no b*tchery!

[quote]Please use a * if you really feel you must use a bad word to make a point! I know you can do it DLers, yes you can! Yes, even you r*publican tr*lls!!

Part of the problem is the immigrants Hillary meets are surgeons, professors, UN officials. She doesn’t meet the goat herder who can’t read in his own language, let alone a foreign one. How is the latter going to succeed in a knowledge based economy?

Those Afghan goat herders behave like their goats. Rape is at the centre of their culture.

Even Hillary cultists, like Peter Daou, are disappointed at her.

I find it interesting that it’s always the white countries that are expected to have unlimited immigration or they’re racists. Meanwhile, most non-white countries are racist as fuck, they don’t give a fuck about diversity, and if you’re not the right color or religion, don’t even think about moving there. People are like “White people are evil and racist, we want to come live with you.”

The problem is Hillary Clinton, the policy AND the migrants. Were the French resistance "xenophobes" for opposing the German invasion? Were Native Americans xenophobes for opposing the Europeans? Were the Romans xenophobes for opposing the barbarism hordes? Is the Great Wall of a China a monument to xenophobia? Get real.

R95 This guy is handsome. But is he dumb?

Peter Daub does not live anywhere near the neighborhoods affected by migrants, and his livelihood and personal safety are not an issue.

Not a fan of Hillary but have no problem with what she said here. Too bad she said it too late.

I guess she doesn't like that so many on the left have been shitting on her and trashing her husband's legacy. She may be finally growing a spine.

That is so true, R96.

Tashfeen ans Syad said “We think you are evil and racist, we want to come live with you.”

Compare this to what Joe Biden said.

It wasn't the Clintons or the Democrats who were pushing for more illegal immigration. It was Reagan and Bush.

^ Do you have a link for that?

I don’t know what’s worse

1. The fact so many journalists took the headline “curb immigration” and assumed it was a direct quote and told their readers it meant “stop immigration”, when in reality the quote was “I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration...”

or...

2. The fact so many people read the paragraph below and assumed Hillary was speaking in the abstract ...when in reality she was describing the current ongoing situation in many European countries where politicians are literally turning people away and sending them back home.

Seriously. People go out of their way to distort things in order to bash Hillary. Seriously, what she said is no worse than what Obama was actually DOING. So you know... keep being sexist, misogynist Hillary-hating hypocrites.

[quote] she says “I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part”.

I can just imagine the MSNBC meltdown if Trump said “I think it is fair to say America has done its part”. Hillary would call anyone saying this "deplorable".

[quote] in L.A. County only half or slightly less than half of its residents speak English as a 1st language at home

They however improve their numbers in other areas.

Hillary is correct and, however obvious her statement is, it needed to be said by someone on the left.

r90: EXACTLY! People love to minimize this fact or out right ignore it. If European boarders were being flooded with highly skilled, highly educated Muslim immigrants from MENA there wouldn't be as much pushback in Europe, but they aren't. If European boarders were being flooded with highly skilled, highly educated Muslim immigrants from MENA the American right would have had a harder time arguing why we shouldn't accept thousands of them to alleviate the burden European countries were facing as a result of our shit-stirring in MENA, but they aren't. The thousands of people flooding into Europe are the equivalent of our American rednecks living in the most backwoods, Christian fundamentalist, cousin fucking-est areas of our country. Those on the left ignoring this and calling people who have been pointing this shit out a 'racist', 'alt-righter', or 'nazi' are being ridiculous. I'm on the left, have voted a straight blue ticket in all elections since I've been eligible to vote and even I can understand this is lazy, short-sighted thinking that pushes left-leaning moderates and people with common sense closer to the right on immigration. These people are barely skilled and educated enough to survive in their own country. It's laughable when people suggest that it's possible to quickly bridge the gap between them and the educated populous of a technologically developed 1st world country that has a culture radically different (more egalitarian, liberal, secular, etc.) than the countries the immigrants are coming from.

r96: There's no conspiracy there. Those 'non-white' countries aren't expected to take these people in because their poor economy, lack of colonialism, and/or lack of imperialism in recent history didn't contribute to the current circumstances in the countries that these immigrants are running away from.

This entire thread is full of trolls who didn't read the article or the interview, let alone the people who quoted the relevant bits to prove that the headline was a clickbait lie.

Are these articles created specifically with this kind of person in mind? By that I mean, do the editors at CNN and The Guardian think that if they make a clickbait headline like this that's a lie, they'll get more eyeballs on their advertising from people rushing to see if it's true or not?

My guess is yes, and that's why we are in the shit we're in.

Japan is notorious for not being open to immigrants, r108.

[quote]She is completely correct. The migration crisis has its origins with the Iraq war which destablized the entire region.

You mean the war she voted for??

She needs to take several seats and disappear permanently.

I have about half this thread on ignore.

[R104] [R105]

I do not recall Reagan/Bush Sr.ever being for illegal immigration.

I believe Reagan is the only president to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants, however. 104, is that what you're referring to?

Folks, if you're in the first wave of outrage at something Hillary Clinton said in a news story - where the full context is not yet available - you may be doing this wrong. Also, have you not lived through the last three years? Wait a while. She's not a xenophobe.

Stop believing click-baity headlines, ESPECIALLY if those headlines seem designed to generate outrage towards Hillary Clinton.

They're almost always a lie. And Hillary, in the fullness of time, is almost always proven to be correct.

[quote]You mean the war she voted for??

R111, take a seat yourself, if you're pushing THIS lie. She didn't vote for war. As she made VERY clear in the speech she gave at the time of her vote, she voted for an authorization ONLY, to be used as leverage to get the inspectors in, and expected -- as everyone else did -- that there would be another vote before going to war, and that Bush wasn't just going to go to war directly for no good reason.

Yes, she was duped by Dubbya and the GOP... something she now admits and has apologized for, but so were A GREAT MANY OTHER PEOPLE, including Biden. So fuck off with this "she voted for war" nonsense. It's pure historical revisionism designed solely to smear her... a tactic not used against ANYONE ELSE that voted the same way she did, for the same reasons.

Anybody with half a brain knew that the Iraq war was total bullshit and were opposed to it. I didn't know a single person back then who couldn't see through Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld's lies.

[quote]I didn't know a single person back then who couldn't see through Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld's lies.

Hillary couldn’t.

R116, that's more historical revisionism. And again, why does nobody hold that vote against Joe Biden? Think about it. It's pure sexism, misogyny, and irrational Hillary-bashing. Nothing more. Why is SHE the ONLY person held "responsible' for that vote, out of everyone? It's kind of obvious... it's part of a coordinated smear job against her, and her alone.

Just stop feeding that ridiculous right-wing nonsense. She doesn't deserve it. She never has.

R117 is another example of pure hypocritical Hillary bashing. He doesn't say "Biden couldn't", you see. Or any of the other people who voted the same way Hillary did. Come on, just stop this stupidity. You're embarrassing yourselves.

[quote]You're embarrassing yourselves.

The only one embarrassing herself is Hillary.

R97: People fleeing civil war and terrorism are not another nation-state conquering another. Sit down, shut up and stop wasting this thread's time.

No, R120. Wrong again. But keep baselessly bashing, my little sexist troll. Keep bashing. She's stood through stronger shit than you.

[quote]People fleeing civil war and terrorism are not another nation-state conquering another.

But . . . but they aren't "fleeing civil war and terrorism". They are leaving behind overcrowded, corrupt, failed societies and heading toward an easier life based not on sect or family or clan or bribes but just for showing up on the doorstep. They demand entrance into flourishing, functioning societies. What they don't want are values that are contrary to their own, that are anathema and abhorrent. And because of this, they want to subsume local values for their own. Just like every conquerer throughout history has.

Therefore, R97 is correct. It is you R121 who should sit down, shut up, etc.

[R121] In the case of Mexican and Central American immigration to the U.S. it's definitely not a case of "fleeing civil war and terrorism." Civil war and terrorism are not new phenomena but until now they've not been used as a pretext to justify massive, society-transforming immigration. Immigration is just "colonialism" by another name. But people like you insist that it's semantics that matters most.

You can sit down and shut up.

R115 I protested that war, and I hold their vote against anyone that did vote for it. That includes Biden

Oh, please give it a rest. Behind the scenes Powell et al insisted in closed meetings with congressional members that Sadam Hussein had nuclear capabilities and that he fully intended to use them.

Its W, Powell and Cheney responsible for the Iraq War. All their bullshit lies and faux evidence that solicited the go ahead.

[quote]Its W, Powell and Cheney responsible for the Iraq War. All their bullshit lies and faux evidence that solicited the go ahead.

So Hillary was “fooled” by W, who is a certifiable moron??

Then again, she also lost to Trump.

Hillary is a Goddess.

She is the personification of American Womanhood.

She is the greatest woman we've produced since Eleanor Rooseveldt.

Nobody was fooled by W. Everybody who voted for the war jumped on the Patriotism bandwagon rather than risk any political backlash. It was the safe thing to do, not the right thing, though.

And W was the figurehead for the Dick Cheney presidency. I'm everybody in D.C. knew that, too.

^^^^ I'm sure

[quote] why does nobody hold that vote against Joe Biden?

Probably the same reason nobody holds it against him that he wrote the Patriot Act.

[QUOTE] Everybody who voted for the war jumped on the Patriotism bandwagon rather than risk any political backlash. It was the safe thing to do, not the right thing, though.

See also: DOMA as a profile in political courage

Now a warning?

They laugh while their nations disintegrate.

Still laughing.

The aristocrats can't hear the proles.

I was fooled by everyone.

She says we must STOP populism.

She says Democracy is good but populism is bad.

Hillary Clinton: We must feed the homeless but it must be done in an orderly, organized and well regulated fashion including safety, storage, distribution, and ancillary care.

HEADLINE: Hillary Clinton hates the homeless.

Hillary-Hate is a pathological mental illness. 100% of Hillary-bashing at this point is pure sexism & propaganda.

R137, she's correct. Populism is bad. Trumpism is populism. Dumbass.

R127 is a dumbass.

Criticism of Hillary = misogyny +propaganda.

Anyone who criticises Hillary is obviously mentally-disturbed!

From her own narratives: Hillary believed that Bill was faithful; Hillary believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction; Hillary believed that Wall Street functioned honestly (Chelsea's father in law having spent time in Federal prison), Hillary believed that the DNC had her back (welcome president Obama!), Hillary believed that Bill's flights to "pussy island" were related to his sciatica, Hillary believed that classified information could be legally run through private a server in her bathroom.

I appreciate how trusting and dumb Hillary is (or pretends to be) but this is not a good quality in a leader.

R143 is an idiot (and no, the server wasn't in her bathroom, dumbass).

The server was in her bedroom (the bedroom that Bill's never visited).

R4! $

R29 genius level common sense.

[Bold] She is fucking correct !!!!!!!!!

She’s never been correct about anything...ever.

R108 has it.

And I say that as someone who's worked and lived in Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar, the UAE. There but for the grace of good fortune go I, but, damn, there is no shortage of people from this region -- not so much the oil-rich Gulf states -- and beyond who are woefully unable to function in any sort of modern society. Again, lucky us, we won the genetic lottery or at least did a helluva lot better in it than vast numbers of people from the Middle East, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan. Let's not even get to Africa, but suffice to say living in Nairobi was interesting.

So, take those people; toss in a "faith" that's legitimately disturbing WRT women, gay people, etc.; and turn 'em loose in Europe.

How ya reckon that's gonna go?

No thought to how it is nobody's fault to mix 2 polar opposite regions. Americans would struggle in Germany w/their rules. If Americans can't even cut it what makes you think rubes from those far-flung bumfuck ghettos can graze?

She's right.

TY R64. Don't see rod

R150 here again. PS: If these fine people are such glorious additions to any society, how come the Gulf states -- Kuwait, Saudi, UAE, etc. -- aren't welcoming their brothers and sisters in faith? I mean, they could put these people to work and they could easily replace the vast numbers of apostate Indians and Filipinos, right? HAHAHAHAHA.

As much as the Arabian Gulf countries set real standards for duplicity and hypocrisy, the folks in charge ain't dumb.

R134, a hint of an older, educated Madonna there. Right? The eyes!

Hillary & Oprah, phonies. My grandmother could spot them! She was a phony as well.

Climate change is going to create about 200 million refugees over the next 20 years.

The concept of national borders will vanish under the sheer number of people desperate to find livable conditions.

Might as well get used to it now.

You can't have a national government or a national economy or a national taxation system without national borders, R157.

Hilary needs to go into obscurity were she belongs and will hopefully be joined by the dreadful Trump.

I seriously think they should open the borders and eliminate a checkpoints. Going from Mexico to US should be as easy as traveling from Texas to Oklahoma. This will solve acute labor shortages the US is experiencing.

R160, are you trolling?

R160 = Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Yeah no shit, R158. You got any bright ideas on how to force 200 million climate refugees to stay put?

Minding your own business is always a good policy.

[quote]She’s never been correct about anything...ever.

R149, she's been mostly correct about most things, including EVERYTHING she warned us about with respect to Trump and the GOP. In fact, she's way, way more correct about way way more things than you have ever been. You have no basis or ground upon which to attack or smear her. You're not even one 100th the person she is. You're just a pathetic, ignorant, misinformed, sexist basher mindlessly parroting propaganda you've been fed. You can fuck right off now.

R159, No, people need to start LISTENING to her. She's been right about so much. We'd be so much better off if people had listened to her, and if she had been our legitimate President.

If anyone needs to go away and never be heard from again, it's that ridiculous fraud Bernie. Along with EVERY Republican. And that idiot Jill Stein.

Hillary is NOT our problem. She would have been, and could have been, our solution. But too many people fucked it up for the rest of us, so now we have Trump. Ugh.

Enough with the stupid, ignorant Hillary bashing. Seriously.

I'm coming around to the idea that with a crowded field she thinks that she can manage an early plurality lead, even though delegates are awarded proportionately, leveraging that to a mantra of "I'm in first place! You can't ignore that!"

[QUOTE] But too many people fucked it up for the rest of us, so now we have Trump. Ugh.

In other words, she was absolutely not a flawed candidate, and she did not run a flawed campaign. Got it.

zzzzzzzzz r168

R168, everyone is flawed, because everyone is human. But the fact remains she got more votes than anyone else except Obama in 2008. She was not any more 'flawed' than anyone else. Come on, you're telling me Trump was LESS flawed than the most experienced, most knowledgeable, most hard-working, most competent, and most capable person to run for President in modern times? Stop with your fucking sexist ignorance.

It's so weird how people like you hold Hillary to an impossibly high standards while ignoring everyone else and letting them slink by with not even HALF her qualifications and competence and achievements.

By any SANE standard, no, she wasn't flawed, and no she didn't run a flawed campaign. That's compared to EVERYONE ELSE using the same standards.

Stop being a dumbass. Seriously. It's embarrassing.

[quote]But the fact remains she got more votes than anyone else except Obama in 2008.

Yeah, that and $2.75 will get you on the goddamn subway. The election is not determined by the popular vote. And the fact that she only got 3 million is just pathetic since she was up against the worst presidential candidate in American history.

If we're lucky, both she & her sex predator hubby will pass away before 2020.

Holy fuck. The Clinton hatred really is pathological, isn't it?

R173 It's not any more weird than her overzealous defenders.

She's right. Despite its celebration of multiculturalism, Canada has a very strict immigration policy. Immigrants have to past a citizenship test and pledge loyalty to Canada.

Because of its strict immigration policy, violence between Canadians and immigrants is very uncommon. There are more cases of domestic violence among immigrants than there are cases of immigrants acting violently towards other Canadians.

Despite its economic uncertainty, there is no strong movement of nationalism in Canada. There is also no sharp divide between Conservatives and Liberals like we do see in the U.S.

I don't mind her defenders. People in her position have far more influence speaking out against the far left than any of the Republicans. I think it's important to have more moderate voices in the Democrat party even if the person bringing the message is getting battered by both sides.

R173 is right, and R174 is delusional and twisted.

It is not good the president of the United States is Donald Trump.

It is good the president of the United States is not Hillary Clinton.

'Merkel took a gamble that will probably pay off for Germany in years to come.'

It will not pay off at all and the negative consequences of her actions will only amplify over the decades to come.

It is now not unusual in Germany for women to walk around with pepper spray something that would have been unthinkable before 2015.

Would you consider it an improvement if gay men had to arm themselves in the country they grew up with?

Consider the perversity: in Cologne, an unprecedented number of cops will again patrol the streets on NY Eve to avoid a repeat of the mass sexual attacks. Yes. The German popiulace needs to be protected from the very same people seeking "protection" in Germany. Utterly grotesque.

r178 thinks she's clever.

R126 I was a freshman in college when the Iraq war started. I remember talking to my mom in the payphone in the lobby of my dorm about it. We both agreed that the WMDs were lies. If a jackassed 19-year-old saw and a middle-aged woman that worked in a call center saw through it, fucking senators should have been able to as well.

R129 You're right. The mom conversation with my mom started because we were talking about how most everyone we knew was for the war. In my Analytical Philosophy class, everyone was pro-War, except for me and the professor.

R127 I'd have more respect for HRC if she just said she made a mistake. Claiming she was tricked by one of the dumbest people on earth isn't a good look.

[quote]It is not good the president of the United States is Donald Trump.

True.

[quote]It is good the president of the United States is not Hillary Clinton.

Absolutely false.

Hillary Clinton wasn't just running against Trump and the GOP... like every other Democratic nominee for President.

She was running against Putin & his Russian hackers, against James Comey, against misogynist dude-bros in the media, and sexist double-standards in the electorate. She also had to contend with UNPRECIDENTED GOP Voter Suppression in the wake of the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.

She had far more headwinds than ANYONE who has run before. And STILL she got more votes than any other white guy to run in history.

And her "loss" was fewer than 78,000 HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE votes spread across three states. That razor thin electoral college margin is fewer than the average attendance at an Ohio State Football home game.

Also note, that Trump "won" those states by fewer votes than the number of Bernie write-ins. Fewer than the number of Stein votes. The morons on the far-left, manipulated by Russian and RWNJ propaganda, voted to slit their own throats.

Claiming that the most qualified & experienced person to run in modern history was too 'flawed' to win, is just sexist garbage. Stop it.

Fact: Hillary Clinton has NEVER lost the popular vote in any election she's ever run in. Claiming she's unpopular is just completely false. It's more true to say there's a completely baseless and irrational hatred of her in certain sexist, misogynist populations within this country. Including within several posters on this very board.

r149,

R184 writes,

[quote]Hillary Clinton wasn't just running against Trump and the GOP... like every other Democratic nominee for President. | She was running against Putin & his Russian hackers, against James Comey, against misogynist dude-bros in the media, and sexist double-standards in the electorate. She also had to contend with UNPRECIDENTED GOP Voter Suppression in the wake of the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. | She had far more headwinds than ANYONE who has run before. And STILL she got more votes than any other white guy to run in history. | And her "loss" was fewer than 78,000 HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE votes spread across three states. That razor thin electoral college margin is fewer than the average attendance at an Ohio State Football home game. | Also note, that Trump "won" those states by fewer votes than the number of Bernie write-ins. Fewer than the number of Stein votes. The morons on the far-left, manipulated by Russian and RWNJ propaganda, voted to slit their own throats. | Claiming that the most qualified & experienced person to run in modern history was too 'flawed' to win, is just sexist garbage. Stop it. | Fact: Hillary Clinton has NEVER lost the popular vote in any election she's ever run in. [bold]Claiming she's unpopular is just completely false.[/bold] It's more true to say there's a completely baseless and irrational hatred of her in certain sexist, misogynist populations within this country. Including within several posters on this very board.

Honestly, why are trolls so obsessed with Hillary Clinton? The election was over two years ago. Are they still watching the debates and fapping furiously?

Hillary Clinton had approval ratings in the 60s her entire term at State, and when she announced.

Yes, the lies & propaganda pushed by RWNJs, Russian Bots, and sexist 'bros' on the far left have had their effect... especially since many of the sexist 'bros' are in the media. How many of the male talking heads that attacked her, smeared her, and dismissed her have now been taken down after it's proven they were abusive to women, sexual harassers, and worse?

Fuck off with your bullshit, R186.

R183/R184/R188,

The one who is spouting “bullshit” is you.

You don’t like Gallup? Too bad.

If I were Germany or any other country in Europe who'd opened the floodgates and allowed in hundreds of thousands of migrants, I'd be absolutely ruthless in expelling them if they break the law. If any of them were arrested for violence of any sort, out they'd go.

No, R189. (and yes, Gallup has shown a strong GOP bias in many of his polls, but that's not the point I'm making, which is a point you're not in any way refuting either).

Time for you to grow up and actually learn a thing or two. Becaues you're clearly, willfully blind & ignorant, and just have a hard-on to hate on Hillary. And that's all YOUR issue. And you should work on it.

You notice an interesting thing when you graph out Hillary's approval ratings over time.

When she's DOING a job, she's extremely popular.

When she's aspiring to a higher office, her approval rating craters.

This is typical of sexism... women "in their place" are fine, but the moment they show ambition, sexist try to tear them down. It's as predictable as can be. And has been pointed out over and over. And yet there are still those who are oblivious to this fact.

Wow. Trollsville here. 1. Capitalism is predicated on ever-increasing population. Contracting population = contracting demand and a decline in production, layoffs, and ultimately, decline in government revenues, leading to loss of ability to honor societal contracts (old age pensions, health care, etc). Robots don't buy washing machines or cars or furniture.

2. The unemployment rate among immigrants in Europe is much higher than that of natives - BUT- still the vast majority of immigrants work. (In most of the EU 75-85% of immigrants are employed). That means that they are contributing vast sums to the economy and to the government coffers. This image that every immigrant to the EU is sitting collecting benefits is a fiction promoted by Russian trolls. Obviously there's a continuum, with people who acquire the new language quickly being hired most readily. Most people want to work. People can survive on benefits, but there is no possibility of moving up the economic/social ladder as an unemployed person, and immigrants want most of all to become wealthier than they were before.

3. Don't look to Japan and China as good models. Japan has been in a stagnating economy for over 25 years. No amount of government stimulus has been able to make up for a rapidly contracting population. The real estate market is tanking. Old age pensions have been cut and cut and cut over the past 20 years. Japan does not allow foreigners to become Japanese citizens, BUT it has been more and more open to foreign workers coming to work in Japan. China's one-child policy has led to a situation in which the country has a rapidly aging population and not enough workers to care for them in their old age. They have stopped that policy and are trying to incentivize larger families again, but with very indifferent success. There are 40 or 50 VACANT cities in China, and as many as 64 million vacant apartments - built to house millions who will never arrive. The real estate market is rapidly contracting there as well. Both countries are scared spitless about their futures and the long-term viability of their economies, and there is no doubt that there are many people in the governments of both countries rethinking their immigration policies. China is hoping to lure back a big proportion of its expat populations from their diaspora around the planet, but those people have gotten used to freer societies, and they are not rushing back to the motherland.

Shut up and go away, Hillary. You are a terminally tone deaf disaster for the Democratic Party.

Yes Hillary, stay away and take your weird millionaire friends with you!

[quote]She was running against Putin & his Russian hackers, against James Comey, against misogynist dude-bros in the media, and sexist double-standards in the electorate. She also had to contend with UNPRECIDENTED GOP Voter Suppression in the wake of the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.

R184:

oh, dear, r195.

[quote]Hillary Clinton says Europe needs to curb migration to counter nationalism

The duplicitous bitch was singing a different tune in 2016.

DL has more than 5000 trolls.

r199 just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them a troll. Why don't I give you a one way ticket to London's Tower Hamlet neighborhood and see how you feel after a week?

[quote]DL has more than 5000 trolls.

Yeah, and it would have 65000 more Syrians if this cunt had been elected President.

R200, I am simply noting that someone got tagged as "troll 5,000" by Muriel.

I did not call anyone a troll.

[quote] When she's DOING a job, she's extremely popular. When she's aspiring to a higher office, her approval rating craters. This is typical of sexism.

It's more typical of "out of sight out of mind". Nothing but puff pieces building her up while she is on the job. But when she comes out from behind the curtain to graciously accept the electoral prize that is hers by right people see on display once again all the they they dislike and distrust.

Do fuck off r203 about behaving "graciously" you misogynistic shitstain

I think the criticism of Merkel's open border policy is very well justified. You don't let in people and you don't know their intentions, you don't know who they are, whether they are economic migrants or legitimate refugees.

Police chiefs right from the beginning said they knew ISIS operators were among the migrants. Merkel's approach was idiotic from the start. But what do you do when thousands come every day? Do you shoot them at the border to protect yourself? Nobody wants that kind of situation.

Several EU head of states already suggested that they should use a detention center style approach like Australia does to deter migrants from coming in the first place. Unless you have vetted these people and consider them legitimate refugees and also save to be around locals, they won't be allowed to enter a country.

Hillary Clinton is correct that people like Trump will exploit an animosity against migrants, but this would have happened anyway. Too many things have happened, Charlie Hebdo, the Cologne attacks, Paris, Barcelona, London, Stockholm. People are fed up. And she is absolutely correct about using a realistic approach to migration. There are people who don't belong in western societies because they will never integrate. These people should be send back or better never be allowed to enter in the first place.

[quote]If we're lucky, both she & her sex predator hubby will pass away before 2020.

Go back to reddit R172, on DL it's adults talking.

What does she give as the reason for the rise of nationalism in the US ?

R206 Chelsea, we already told you to sit down and shut up. More than once.

R191 (also R183, R184, and R188),

As I wrote before—it doesn’t matter whether you feel you are okay with Gallup.

Not great.

Lawsuit pending. Negligence. Why did they leave the rebar laying around?

Populism is about deep resentment due to greater income inequality. Both left and right wing populism are about dismantling huge conglomerates but the Democrats will inexplicably give a pass to people like Bezos and Zuckerberg. Illegal immigration helps corporate interests above all else which is why the mainstream GOP which enabled it is slowly dying.

In US it's mostly economic migrants but in Europe, it is clearly an issue of national security. They have it much worse than us, not that it can't ever get that bad in the US depending on our leadership.

R184

When folks expressed hesitancy that Clinton as a candidate would be followed by a cloud of issues raised, I can clearly recall her partisans replying "She can take anything (emphasized) they throw at her!"

She always ends up a victim, with nothing actually her fault.

U.S. border agents use tear gas on approaching migrants.

R196 is in denial or reality... and doing a lot of projecting.

Chile just let these people go extinct.

[quote]And she is absolutely correct about using a realistic approach to migration. There are people who don't belong in western societies because they will never integrate. These people should be send back or better never be allowed to enter in the first place.

The above is what Trump campaigned on. Hillary was advocating for increased immigration.

Is this her public position or her private position??

No, R218, that's not at all what Trump campaigned on. Trump campaigned on racism and xenophobia... keeping BROWN people out, irrationally.

You fucking idiot. What the fuck is wrong with you that you so blatantly and easily like like that.

[quote] Several EU head of states already suggested that they should use a detention center style approach like Australia does to deter migrants from coming in the first place. Unless you have vetted these people and consider them legitimate refugees and also save to be around locals, they won't be allowed to enter a country.

They were trying with the camps located in Turkey.

Australia has an enormous advantage (remote island). Unfortunately, parts of Africa and Turkey are only a short ride away.

R47, she was the first First Lady to march in a gay rights parade--

Can we stop and remember that most of the problems in the Middlr East & Africa derive from a destructive colonial legacy brought about by the UK, France, and the Low Counties?

As far as I’m concerned, the chickens have come home to roost.

These are little "dog whistles" to the deplorables she shamed in 2016. She wants their votes in 2020.

r223 those regions were basket cases long before colonialism.

[quote]Hillary was advocating for increased immigration.

She was never advocating for open border style immigration a la Merkel.

R233, the middle East has been a hotbed for more than thousand years, long before Europeans learned they have to arm themselves to fight off invaders. Opening up a history book would do you some good.

[quote]These are little "dog whistles" to the deplorables she shamed in 2016. She wants their votes in 2020.

Exactly. This is all about her saying what she thinks is the popular opinion among people whose vote she needs.

She’s the most phony, distrustful person out there. She’ll literally say anything to get what she wants.

Absolutely no doubt that she’s going to run in 2020 after these latest comments.

Oh shut up BernieBro @ R228!

She's the Deplorables' Satan and she knows it. I'm just disappointed she didn't come out with this when it counted.

She lies so much, she can’t even remember what positions she was supporting last month.

There seem to be two options at DL.:

Hillary Clinton is a flawless person, incapable of mistakes.

You are a Russian Bernie bro.

Does anyone actually believe Hillary ever stopped paying online trolls to attack skeptics ?

R218 is correct.

It's not Hillay's fault you suffer from selective hearing bias and early onset of dementia, R231.

[quote]It's not Hillay's fault

Nothing’s ever her fault.

^^^ victim blaming idiot ^^^

It's really true that nothing is ever her fault. Folks here cling to this even after Mook admitted that he used flawed data as a way of cutting corners, which he shouldn't have done.

It isn't that using a private server was necessarily so evil, but that she let her surrogates twist in the wind grasping for defenses for a very long time while she sat back unable to address the issue.

The cult-like enthrallment of her devotees not to see these issues is both fascinating and sad at the same time.

It isn't that using a private server was necessarily so evil

You are wrong. There is no defensible reason for her using a private server to conduct government business. There is no defense of her using her position as Head of the State Department to fatten the coffers of the Clinton Foundation either.

The Clintons always told us they were a two-for-one. Two hind legs of a dog, that is, each as crooked as can be. You have to work hard not to see it.

Hopefully in 2020 we'll have a strong Dem candidate.

Muslims are anti Semitic, misogynist and homophobic right wing extremists. I don't know why so many Jews, women and gay liberals want them in white countries. I think its mental illness....... so many Jews, women and gays are deeply self loathing and neurotic.I would say that probably half of all Jews, women and gays take psychiatric medication. Its like they're suicidal. If this keeps up it wont be safe for Jews, women and gays in Europe........

JEWS WOMEN and GAYS are like mice with toxoplasmosis who are attracted to cat piss and muslims are the cats that will devour them.

The Clinton Foundation is on the ground in Haiti. Bernie just signed a wall.

Take your lame conspiracy theories somewhere else.

I wonder what Republicans think should be the proper jail sentence for hiring an illegal immigrant. I wonder if any would really like to see those sentences carried out if it means throwing some donor/"job creator" in jail.

They love the shooting brown people part. do they love the jailing white people part?

R243, Hillary Clinton says it's the blacks who are the super predators.

She apologized for that.

The elephant-in-the-room question is this: Why did Hillary see fit to, or find the need to, comment on European immigration? What business is it of hers? What about U.S. immigration? Why not limit her comments to her home country?

[quote]Why did Hillary see fit to, or find the need to, comment on European immigration? What business is it of hers?

Because she’s about to run for President.