Camp Fire Survivors Are Now Refugees In Their Own Country

Nothing that a little raking wouldn't have solved

They didn't rake. They rake in Finland. They should have raked.

Toss 'em some paper towels, Trumpy! If they have norovirus, they're going to need something to clean up with.

There was no collusion. California is a special place.

I have small sympathy for very rich people with insurance in mega-homes surrounded by lovely forests who push up MY insurance premiums.

I feel sorry for everyone who lost anything because of these fires.

These are not Forest Fires they are engineered with Directed Energy Weapons. Take a look at the trees that are still standing while the houses are burnt down to nothing and cars are melted onto the pavement. I also want to add we have a refugee problem in this country in other areas as well - like the Hurricane zone in the Western Part of Florida that was recently destroyed. The hardest part is these people need the psychological support and financial assistance to relocate because waiting for rebuilds of entire communities is going to take years. Now is the time to move - and all those cute little midwestern places that sponsored Somalis and other refugees can step to the plate and help Americans in need. Vouchers for relocations in dispersed areas - because these people can't just wait around. I know this sounds harsh, but I live in Florida - and I know myself if my home and community was destroyed - I would have to face reality and relocate. In our insane reality its best that everyone has a back up plan or idea, at least have ideas.

R5, most of the people who lost their homes in these fires are not rich. And while I hope you never need to use your insurance, just remember that should it happen, you would be benefiting in the same way they are now.

R5. STFU you heartless piece of shit. Many of these people are not rich, but nonetheless, rich or not, they had to run for their lives and now have nothing. They are living in tents or on a cot in a local gym or church if anything is still standing in their town with people they barely know. Many are elderly. They can't even tale a shower. Many of their freinds and relatives have died. More than a thousand are missing. Their pets have died. Their businesses are gone. They have no work, no income. It's freezing outside now. They have nothing. The psychological loss is worse than the physical loss.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

R5 is Donald Trump.

Gross refugees. Ship them back to Afghanistan.

My house won't be burnt down in forest fire because I don't live in a forest.

I live in an ugly, ordinary street and don't have the aesthetic amenity that these rich people enjoy.

They made the gamble to live in a place of high aesthetic appeal.

Most of south florida was devastated for months,and in some cases years after Hurricane Andrew. Some people lived in the shells of their homes (that they still had to pay a mortgage on,mind you) for 2 years fighting to get their money from the insurance companies. For years after you saw blue tarps on roofs ,blown out houses etc.It is criminal fema doesnt have trailers organized and set up,food and water supplies established for these areas much faster than they do. Untold millions just stolen and wasted,yet we got american citizens sleeping in fucking tents in a walmart parking lot ! Disgraceful!

Let's see how well the 5th largest economy in the world takes care of its citizens. We already know it can't or won't keep them from being burned alive, but maybe it will do better with the survivors.

Yes, R13, fema is Disgraceful, disgusting and sinful!

As many billionaires living in los Angeles, are they going anything to help out? And how will the federal government help these people?

And did the fires reach the Reagan library? Isn't that where the Reagan's are buried?

What are Directed Energy Weapons?

On Twitter there is a claim that the paths of the fires overlaps a proposed high speed rail? Another claim is that it was started by the power lines sparking?

The loss of life, human and animal, is so tragic. It must have been terrifying.

R12. Think before you speak. Many of the fires weren't in a forest. Fires in California often start in canyons due to downed power lines where there are no forests. When San Ana winds blow east to west from the deserts to the coast, small embers can ignite a fire on as you say an "ugly, ordinary street" where you live. When the Santa Ana winds blow in the fall, the humidity can drop to single digits in a matter of a few minutes. No different than a 'Noreaster hitting the East Coast. Weather happens.

In 2003, San Diego was hit with massive fires, the largest in California history until last week's fires. Many homes burned in San Diego where there are no forests on an "ugly, ordinary street" that might be familiar to you.

These people paid big money to live in paradise.

Paradise ejected them.

[quote]These are not Forest Fires they are engineered with Directed Energy Weapons.

Isn't this the Netflix Original "How it Ends"?

The majority of those who lost their homes and loved ones in the Northern California Camp Fire are/were Repubs - check out Wiki link below. Old, White people who voted a straight R ticket at the local, state, and federal level.

Their president tells them that they got what they deserved and that he was considering withholding federal emergency funding from them. They are now homeless refugees, the very sort of people they voted to persecute.

Karma’s a bitch. I wonder if any of them will ever figure it out and now be able to feel empathy towards others.

Another deplorable at R19.

WTF is wrong with you, R21? Do you realize how many more people suffered in these fires who may be Democrats?

If I donate there any way to make sure the money only goes to victims who are dems?

Jesus fucking Christ. Conspiracy theorists are so annoying. These schizoid spectrum dwellers can just pollute online conversations because people in real life run away like they do from the crazy person on the bus.

There were two major fires--one in Malibu, where there were rich people, and one in Paradise, where there are not. Neither fire was in a forest. Thanks to climate change, the start of the California rainy season is now delayed--so you're looking at a ton of dry grass, dotted with dry trees and high winds. The winds blow down a power line and *poof* that spark works like a match on a stateful of dried tinder.

It's not weapons (I know you're crazy, but you're still an asshole). It's not rich people with tons of insurance. Paradise was a town of 26,000 people who shopped at grocery outlet. Some of them lived in a mobile home park. A ton of them were seniors without a ton of money. That town is *gone.*

And, no fucking amount *raking* would have done a damn thing.

What would? Oh, adhering to and upping the Paris Climate Accords would. So would burying and/or reinforcing power lines. Very expensive, but then so is a megafire.

R26. Thank you for your response. Some people are so fucking stupid. Like Trump.

Wtf are they calling it the Camp Fire? Were some flaming faggots having a retreat? Did pyromaniac Girl Scouts rub their cli0ts together?

Donny didn't waste a second upon landing in NorCal before talking about the lumber industry. At first it looked like he was blaming Canada's lumber industry, but what news outlets failed to see is that [bold]he was propping up US lumber companies instead[/bold] . How fucking opportunistic of Orange clown. Of course he didn't travel across the country to visit some miserable victims, there was something more important at hand.

The Lumber industry has been eyeing California forests for decades now. Watch how Trump allows deforestation in the West coast in order to "prevent" forest fires.

It is not a conspiracy to observe the intensity of these fires. It is not a conspiracy to note how unprecedented it all is.

Is there a caldera bubbling underneath California?

P.s. I dont give a shit how as anyone votes after a disaster.

R28, it's called the Camp fire because it started along Camp Creek Road.

Tanks!^^^^

R30, Yes, there are active volcanic areas in California. That has nothing to do with hot dry winds spreading a spark in dry grass and chapparel. Wildfires are a danger every year in California. The fires, however, are getting worse--thanks to global warming making summers longer, hotter and drier.

But that's what conspiracy nuts, I've noticed, don't like to face--that climate change is real and we're seeing the dire effects of it.

R2's picture shows burnt-out doublewide mobile home frames. Paradise was full of low income retirees.

While decidedly in Trump territory, most precincts there were pink not red. Meaning lots of Hillary supporters, some who have clearly died.

R34 I hope Hillary has gone and made a visit to offer her condolences in person.

Has Susan Dey offered her sympathy, or is that bitch ignoring this too? Where the hell does she live? She must have friends in Malibu. Maybe they're shunning her.

That name Paradise...if it were in a novel, people would say it was farfetched. But then that's true of these last two years in general.

Who named this place as 'Paradise'?

Is there really a New Orleans auburn called 'Desire'?

Why on Earth would anyone think this was a directed energy weapon and not what it.so obviously is, i e a fire?

What is wrong with so many people that causes them to make a conspiracy out of everything?

Exhibit A in the WH.

Trump grew up in a concrete jungle and is clueless about how to prevent forest fires. Most all fires of these kinds of fires are started by nature not man, and you cannot stop lightning strikes and spontaneous combustion from occurring in nature, nor can you tame the Santa Anna winds that feed them and make them spread so fast. He is a know-it-all who knows nothing.

[quote]In makeshift refugee camps, survivors of Northern California’s Camp fire face homelessness, norovirus and loss.

Can we give it two weeks before we start in with the refugee hyperbole?

The "directed energy weapon" shit is coming fromthe QAnon cultists. Their world collapsed on election day and they're trying to rebuild.

This is so horrifying.

And mudslide season is not far off. It's only going to get worse.

No rich people lived in Paradise, Magalia, Concow, or any of the other towns that were destroyed by the Camp Fire. They were towns not far from the back of beyond, where the population was a combination of ordinary working stiffs and retirees without a lot of money, all of whom were happy to be living in a town that offered a pleasant way of life, and a reasonable cost of living. That was a rare combination in California, and now it's gone.

So R5 ought to be STUFFED WITH NAILS for shitting on people who've lost the little they had, thanks to a negligent corporation.

We have a QAnon fruitloop here now? Ugh.

So maybe FEMA could get its act together and get some shelters up to Paradise so those poor people aren't vomiting in tents and passing crap around via Port-a-potties.

I find it a bit silly to be angry about people being able to take advantage of the service they paid for in the past like an insurance policy since the very event happened the insurance is supposed to protect them from.

We had QAnon several weeks ago, but I thought most of them had left after the October surprise never materialized. I should have realized that this crazy conspiracy theory about it being a secret weapon came straight from them.

Is FEMA even staffed, or is it one of the departments that Trump just never bothered with? I know the head is under investigation for misappropriating funds, and was asked to resign because he lives so far away from DC that he just wasn't even coming into the office. And the way he handled Hurricane Maria does not bode well for the way he's going to handle California; in fact, I would be surprised if he does anything at all.

Northern California is going to be Puerto Rico2, but with the difference that the rich (right wing supporters and 1%ers) will be taken care of while the poor peasants can fend for themselves.

Well, all those Orange County people who deserted Mr. Orange in his TIME OF NEED -- to hell with them!

The people in Paradise, Forest Ranch, Chico, Butte County definitely voted for Trump. It’s redneck country. I have family I haven’t spoken to in 7 years who live there.

^ And they’d vote for Trump again. I guarantee it.

I offered to take in a refugee or two but it seems FEMA won’t assist in obtaining size meat verificata or selfies presenting hole. What world are we living in?

We definitely need to know if they voted dem or repub before handing out any aid. While we can feel sympathy for both, we should give each what he or she voted for.

If repubs voted for small government then we shouldn’t give them any money, pat them on the back and tell them their favorite line: pull yourself up from the bootstraps.

Dems should get all the money they need.

[quote] If repubs voted for small government then we shouldn’t give them any money, pat them on the back and tell them their favorite line: pull yourself up from the bootstraps.

You forgot the most important help of them all: Thoughts and prayers.

[quote]The people in Paradise, Forest Ranch, Chico, Butte County definitely voted for Trump. It’s redneck country. I have family I haven’t spoken to in 7 years who live there.

And they also overwhelmingly supported Kamala Harris.

@mattwilstein

Just California’s governor-elect hanging out with his ex-wife’s boyfriend’s father in a wildfire disaster zone.

Videos showing people fleeing in their cars with fire burning on both sides of the roads are terrifying and although it was daytime it was as dark as midnight. Hundreds of people are still missing, it's heartbreaking.

These fires are not normal, they are too intense and fast moving.

And yes, that area was not in a drought, and the foliage was green, not dry.

Last year may not have been an official drought year, but the Paradise region hadn't seen a drop of moisture since last March or April. I was there a few days before the fire, saw a nice little town set in natural bone-dry pine woods. No lawns, few watered gardens, just dry dry pine trees oozing sap over the houses and dry pine needles and brush on the ground, a few oaks and other deciduous trees that are in the process of shedding their leaves for fall, scattering more dry flammable material that moves with the slightest breath of air onto the ground. Add high winds and a negligent utility company, and yes, it was an area that would burn furiously once something set it off.

No death rays, no volcanoes, no ray guns, just super-dry woods and a unusually flammable towns. And high winds and a negligent power company.

@KatiePhang

President of Finland denies discussing raking with Trump:

WHY ARE YOU SO WORRIED ABOUT HOMELESS CALIFORNIANS WHEN THERE ARE HOMELESS VETERANS

If you cant see the evidence that these fires are unusual then I give up.

Why are some of you in such denial?

Are you real estate agents?

That monstrosity should not be allowed in this state. We're dealing with enough.

The average price of a home in Paradise is $256,000. The people who live there are either working class or retirees on Social security. I live in Chico. This was a firestorm that took out 85 football fields per minute. It completely overwhelmed the town. We don't have enough shelter space in Chico and many are living in tents at the fairgrounds in winter. It is supposed to rain all next week. Very sad situation.

Dad fought timber fires in Montana. He said the flames travel at the speed of the wind, often far faster than anyone can run...

R57 did they have a choice? It was two female Democrats running against each other.

Pedophile at R28.

Why didn't the army use helicopters to rescue the taxpayers?

Why didn't the insurance companies hire helicopters to save the lives of their pemium-holders?

I just figured out what I'm going to give Granny in Paradise for Christmas. A rake!

Up yours, R64. I've lived in California and paid attention to the ecosystem, and FYI wildfires are normal and expected. Every fucking summer of my life I've seen wildfires on the western slope of the Sierras, some big, some small. Some dry seasons it seemed like the whole state was burning down, sometimes there were just the normal scattered fires and local evacuations.

Of course the fires of the last two years haven't been normal, duh. But there are enough known factors to account for them - an unusual number of dead trees out there after years of drought, PG&E failing to keep power lines clear because enforcement of existing regulations has been lax, later starts to the rainy season which means horrible fires are happening in October and November for the first time, climate change greatly reducing rainfall to southern California, the number of trees in the towns of Magalia and Paradise and the absence of lawns and watered gardens - which means that the yards and forest floor are all dry fallen leaves, etc. This isn't death rays or volcanic activity, this is California in an era of climate change.

The only inexplicable factor is the presence of a warm, dry, high, north wind, before the fires in Santa Rosa, Paradise, and Malibu. Normally the strong north wind doesn't kick up until after the rains start, but presumably because of climate change it's now coming first. And I look forward to seeing what conspiracy theory you can come up with to explain changes in the fucking wind.

R73 You say PG&E have been lax in failing to keep power lines clear.

That sounds like a much more mundane and FEASIBLE excuse than the millennials' doomsday bugaboo of "Global warming".

R64, do you have any awareness of the fires we've gotten in the West over the past few years? Any?

Because, no, getting this kind of fire in November isn't "normal", but that's because we usual have rain by now, but thanks to climate change the start of the rainy season's now moved back a couple of weeks.

And pine trees, if they're alive, are greens--that's why they're also known as "evergreens" idiot.

It doesn't rain during the dry season whether we're in an official drought or not. So, delayed rainy season, high winds, and untended power lines that blow down and light a mega match to the tinder all around it.

Why can't you admit that global warming causes problems, you QAnon nitwit?

R74, PG&E's negligence didn't cause hotter summers and the delay of the rainy season. Global warming did.

Global warming and its predicted effects are well documented. Why are you in such deep denial about it? The mechanics of it have been known since the 19th century. Release a bunch of carbon dioxide into the air and it traps heat and eventually heats the joint up. What is it about that that you don't understand? C'mon, spell it out, why is it so fucking hard for you?

The rich people in Malibu (and the wannabe-rich people in Paradise) need to take responsibility and build water storage tanks to protect their own property.

You can be passive and blame the bugaboo of 'Global warming' and blame the bugaboo in the White House but it's better to be active and assume personal responsibility for the problem.

R77 has a point about the cistern. I also wonder why they dont have tin or spanish tile roofs and build their houses out of concrete or adobe. maybe theres a reason houses were built like that in such climates for 1000s of years? I feel terrible for those families,it must be horrible to not know where your mom or husband is.

Hey, dummy--no one's rich in Paradise--opposite end of the state. And it's NOT about water tanks. You have NO idea what these fires are like--none. They're huge--no fucking water tank is going to save a house. You know how these fires are stopped? It's not water--firefighters dig big trenches and hope the fire doesn't jump the line. Then, the fire eventually "starves" and dies out. Maybe you can dump some stuff on some of it, but these fires are enormous, very hot and very fast.

R74, PG&E's negligence wouldn't have been nearly so devastating if the winter rains hadn't taken to arriving late, and the howling north wind arriving early, both of which seem related to climate change. Because high winds have been a factor in most of the late-season fire, the winds blow down power cables into the tinder-dry vegetation, and then help the fires spread at horrific speed. Got any explanation for changes in wind and weather patterns other than climate change?

As for the idea of everyone keeping a fire-fighting cistern, there are a couple of problems. First is that California is so prone to water shortages that there's no guarantee that there will be enough water for everyone to have a fire-fighting cistern. Second is that some of these wind-driven fires move so horrifically fast that people didn't have time to take any fire-fighting measures, or even grab valuables. The third is that not everyone who lives in vulnerable areas can afford to install one. California is a huge state and at least half of it is at risk for extreme wildfires, and many of the most at-risk areas are poor.

R80 The God of Global Destruction made the winter rains fall late.

And the God of Global Destruction made the north winds blow early.

Every home should take responsibility and Be Prepared beforehand.

^ Thanks. Very helpful R82.

I would also like to add that it's a good idea to make a poster of every family member similar to a "Missing Person" poster. Include a current photo and below the photo list their age and physical description, etc. Do this for everyone in the household including pets. Make a few copies and update it every year or so, or as needed. Keep it in a file with your personal documents. It helps if anyone goes missing due to a natural disaster, like fire, flooding, earthquake, etc. If a family member or pet is missing you can present the poster at the shelters and other places or post it where others can see it along with your cell number.

Seems some of Trumps supporters are turning against him. The following is copied & pasted from a reliable news source.

"While Trump was touring damaged areas, The Guardian interviewed evacuees in a Walmart parking lot in Chico, California. One man, Kirk Ellsworth, said his adult children’s homes were destroyed by the flames. Ellsworth said he had been a Trump supporter, but the president’s reaction to the fires made him reconsider. “My kids lost everything. I voted for him — and now? He can kiss my red ass. What he said was ridiculous. It hurts my heart. A lot of us voted for him and he [talks] down to us?”

“We are not the ones to blame. We are not in charge of managing the forest,” said another evacuee, Ryan Belcher, who told The Guardian, adding, “I hope he sees how this community has come together… People are still here helping us. It’s an amazing thing and I hope he sees that.”

Michael Reasons, who lived in Paradise, told the Chico Enterprise-Record that he was not impressed with Trump’s visit either. “For me, it doesn’t make a bit of difference,” he said. “Now I know what kind of person he really is."

R60 California has been in a drought state for YEARS. When shit gets burning hot enough, even green leaves and tree trunks go up in flames. You are a complete dipshit. Stop typing.

Has Jerry Moonbeam paid them a visit, or helped out?

How about Feinstein, Waters, Harris?

@fund_human

People in Finland are posting pictures of themselves raking the forest to mock Donald Trump and it’s hilarious. Here is the hashtag. #haravointi (raking)

Those poor people it doesnt matter if you’re rich or poor , imagine having to run for your life it must have been terrifying. To lose every thing you own must be devastating especially things like family photos and heirlooms that cant be replaced . Also to lose family pets and even family members doesnt bear thinking about. I hope they get some sort of help soon .

^^ I have to admit, Id love to have seen Miley Cyrus, Gerard Butler & Robin Thicke running for their lives.

“Now I know what kind of person he really is."

I hate to kick a man when he's down, but Trump has been cheating/fucking people over for decades. It's his m.o. It's why no American banks will lend him a plug nickel. Just how stupid do you have to be to think this dirtball was going to turn over a new leaf just because he was running for POTUS? What were you thinking, are were you even thinking?

I think you're veering off the topic R90.

I know people in bush-fire prone country who have a portable strong box in their house in which they keep all their irreplaceable financial documents and family pictures. It's all ready in case they have to make a hasty exit.

I keep all my valuable documents in a nondescript bag, something I can grab fast if I ever have to leave in a hurry. But in Paradise, with 70MPH winds blowing, the fire moved so terribly fast that people didn't have time to grab their valuables, they just ran for the cars if they could. There are probably hundreds that couldn't.

So yeah, people in vulnerable areas need to start making lifestyle changes. Certainly Malibu needs to be rebuilt in adobe, with tile roofs. Or stone houses with slate roofs, if same for all new construction in vulnerable areas.

The homes also have to be built to "earthquake codes" to withstand tremors and earthquakes.

The problem with Paradise is even if people made it to their cars, the cars couldn't get out. A lot of people had to get out and run for their lives. The firefighters had to use a bulldozer to move abandoned cars out of the way in order to get to the fire.

The tires on their cars were melting. One scientist said in a documentary that fires like these are the equivalent of 5 nuclear weapons hitting a city. That is exactly the kind of firestorm Paradise had.

I don't live in California but I saw the Polanski movie "Chinatown" which told me California is dangerous place to live.

Edge of the desert. Insufficient water.

Winds Pushing Smoke From Camp Fire Into SoCal Prompt Unhealthy Air Quality Advisory

The scope of the fires are breathtaking; it will take years for some to recover and sadly some just will not. I'll never forget watching the lights in the basin go out after Northridge--it was like someone had pulled a switch as great swaths went dark . . . we've contributed to the disaster relief fund here in SoCal & also reviewed our back-up plans--back-up laptops, back-up- phone, cash on hand, copies of important docs to the cloud, back-up food/water/drugs, etc. We also keep a fully-stocked RV off-site in a fire-resistant location & the truck has an 82 gallon diesel aux tank. Please take time to look at your back-up plans since things seem to keep accelerating . . . even a little planning can mean a lot--& keep those vehicles pointing at the street!

I wish I could remember where I read the article, but within the town of Paradise itself, they've found that the houses are burnt to the foundations, while the pine trees above them still have green canopies. They're analyzing the fire closely, and apparently the wind-drive fires all happened hear ground level, and the fuel was the houses themselves and not the trees. Most fires move vertically, the fire travels up, but this time the winds were so strong that the fire traveled horizontally, from house to house, with sparks flying from one house to another and not going up into the tree cover.

I doubt the town of Paradise will ever come back, but maybe something can be learned from its ruins. If it's true that the houses themselves fueled the fire, maybe it's time to make as many houses in California fire-safe as they are earthquake-safe. In the Sierra foothills, for instance, there are no fault lines nearby, so maybe it's time for brick houses to come back into fashion.

Thoughts and prayers and financial aid.

That’s horrifying R99.

I've been thinking of retiring to the fire-prone Sierra foothills, and after the last month I'm thinking a condo in a town and not a cabin in the woods.

Most of the houses in that area are made with wooden walls, since wood is a cheap and plentiful resource, and it looks nice, but as I pointed out at R99 all these wood houses were literally part of the problem in Paradise. This is one of the pre-fab house designs I'd looked at, it's all metal and is advertised as fireproof. Of course if it's ever caught in a firestorm it'll turn into a giant oven that will incinerate inside and will twist or melt, but at least it won't actually catch fire and add to the disaster. All new housing needs to take fire safety into account, and not just relying on the owners having common sense. Most people don't have common sense.

The road was narrowed and caused many people to die because some wanted and pushed for a "road diet' so beloved of hipsters...

OP, I wonder how many of them wish they had some of the billions that California has spent

on supporting illegals over the past couple of decades headed in their direction now.

Most of them would be happy if PG&E did the maintenance and pole reinforcement that it promised to do. Power lines were the cause of both this fire and the Santa Rosa fire last year.

Also Drumpf could do something useful like making FEMA funds available--something he didn't do with the Santa Rosa fire because he's such a petulant asshole.