Whitey Bulger Dead?

Will anyone grieve him?

What goes around, comes around.

How did he survive in prison for so long yet gets shanked within a day of arriving at this place? If someone wanted to kill him to make a point, they should have done it years ago.

I believe we have a DLer whose boss was killed on Bulger’s orders.

I wonder what her connections are, she knew hours ago:

Someone finally got to Whitey bulger

Probably running his mouth to the wrong guys, thinking he was still a somebody.

He snitched on too many and knew his days were numbered.Wonder if Patraica mob cashed him out....?An who will run Winter Hill Gang now????

I guess he was in a State Prison before he got transferred to this Fed pen.

Johnny Depp’s last good film role. Now Whitey’s dead just like his career.

He was still alive?

His most wanted poster was so contradictory. "Whitey and his girlfriend love animals and are known to frequent stray animal shelters." LOL WTF

I thought federal prison was much less dangerous than state prisons?

[quote]The union president at the WV prison just told me they have had three homicides there in 7 months "we are very understaffed."

So did I, r11...

@abc7marccr

#BREAKING CONFIRMED: @AP reports James "Whitey" Bulger, Boston gangster who was once one of America's most wanted fugitives, has been found dead in prison. He was 89. #abc7eyewitness

They did him a favor. Who wants to be 90 in prison?

Why do evil people live so long?

God needed another angel

[QUOTE]Why do evil people live so long?

Evil seems to be good for the heart.

maybe he's faking it...again

Looks like the Mafia got to him. Quite a feather in their cap.

I condole you.

NYTimes says cause of death under investigation.

This being datalounge I’m surprised it’s taken so long but he was a hot twink. Wonder if any dataloungers was his daddy.

Anybody who might have been would be long dead, R24.

Are they going to dig a hole at night in some marshy area near the airport and bury him? Cause he doesn't deserve to be buried in any normal way. Maybe throw him in the trunk of some abandoned car.

Will we be be able to go and spit on his grave.

Thoughts and prayers.

[quote] An who will run Winter Hill Gang now????

Frank Costello

He was heavily rumored to be bi. Spent a lot of time in Ptown in the 70s/80s and reportedly had an affair with Sal Mineo.

No big loss, really

R4 That tweet IS weird, if only because the story in the Herald said he was found dead at 8:20 in the morning. Unless McIlhenny isn't in the Eastern Time Zone, he knew Whitey was dead before the guards did?

[QUOTE]According to survivors of the era, Whitey worked out of a couple of gay bars on Stuart Street, primarily a joint called Mario's, which was also known as the Sail Aweigh. As a young male hustler, he quickly became adept at rolling his tricks--his police record indicates an arrest for "unarmed robbery" on March 18, 1947. Another of his favorite pickup spots was the Punch Bowl, which was frequently raided by the Vice Squad. Whitey may have been hustling to raise some spending money, but he never was exclusively homosexual.

We need a real good, thorough biopic on Whitey. He had a fascinating life and “Black Mass” didn’t do it justice.

[31]....that gay character in the Sopranos was said to be loosely based on Bulger....but his long suffering wife...has denied Whitey was gay.Infact she said he was homophobic.....

My father grew up in South Boston and I remember him mentioning Whitey used to hang out in gay/tranny bars a long time ago

[QUOTE]that gay character in the Sopranos was said to be loosely based on Bulger....but his long suffering wife...has denied Whitey was gay.Infact she said he was homophobic.....

Nah, the Vito gay plot line was based on a real life gay mobster in New Jersey’s DeCalvacante Crime Family (which The Sopranos is partially based on). Had nothing to do with Whitey.

Thoughts and prayers!

Was he a White Supremacist? I like to see those people murdered.

26 nah this is datalounge. some of the people here sucked off teddy r.

[QUOTE]Was he a White Supremacist? I like to see those people murdered.

No he was an Irish mobster. In Whitey’s time, Irish people weren’t allowed to be white supremacists. They were part of the dregs of society.

R38, are you the screaming version of R29?

[quote] In Whitey’s time, Irish people weren’t allowed to be white supremacists. They were part of the dregs of society.

Why isn’t that the case with today’s poor, white deplorables?

Did he ever tell where all the stolen Boston Gallery art was?

His name is White-y so we must respect the man for who we was, a fine man representing the best of white -er, uh, American values.

R33, it's like a joke in an old Bob Hope movie (Ghost Breakers) when a gangster tells Bob that a prominent mobster had a car accident and was dead.

When did it happen? Bob says

"About an hour from now"

[quote]Was he a White Supremacist? I like to see those people murdered.

He was behind a lot of the unrest when they tried busing in Boston back in the 70s, angry that they chose Southie kids to be the first bussed.

I'm surprised that they thought he was worth killing given how old he was. I guess it was the principle of the thing.

Ya gotta mayntayn ya stannads, unnastan?

[quote]My father grew up in South Boston and I remember him mentioning Whitey used to hang out in gay/tranny bars a long time ago

Right. Those were so prevalent throughout Southie in the '50s & '60s.

I had no idea they we’re gay rumors

I'm surprised the information got out so quickly. Didn't it take a bit longer for Aaron Hernandez's death to come out?

[quote] for Aaron Hernandez's death to come out?

Unlike him.

R46 Amazin', huh?

No idea who McIlhenny is other than obvs Boston-based (pics of the cop who got shot in Weymouth this summer and the Bruins banners), so maybe law-enforcement.? But, I mean, was there a hit on Whitey and someone 500 miles away knew about it enough in advance to tweet it out @ 7:17 am before (supposedly?) the guards found him dead at 8:20 am? Meaning, what did the guards know and when did they know it?

It's the official story: quote is from the Globe: "In a statement Tuesday afternoon, the Federal Bureau of Prisons confirmed the increasing reports of Bulger’s death. Officials said he was found around 8:20 a.m. at USP Hazleton, a high-security prison in Bruceton Mills, West Virginia.

Even in death, the mystery continues.

There was a thread on DL about Osama bin Ladin’s death posted about 12 hours before it was announced by President Obama.

[quote]

[31].....but his long suffering wife...has denied Whitey was gay.Infact she said he was homophobic.....

You must be very young if you think gay men can't be homophobic. Or feign homophobia as part of their being closeted.

^ gay or bi meni

He had no 'wife' by official marriage. He played house with Stanley and ran away with Grieg as his covers for his 'other' life as a confirmed pervert. He would pay to watch through two way mirrors the rape of young girls. He loved to rape young catholic school girls from Cardinal Cushing HS, the younger the better. He prowled SB for years doing this shit while hiding behind some Robin Hood facade of 'keeping the needle pushing heroin using junkies' out of the neighborhood. A fraud, a sick sick human being, and not anything any decent community would claim. His brothers are similar phonies and frauds. His nieces and nephews are seeking to cash in on his reputation by publishing a book. There's even more about this sick pervert and what he did to people in that town. Fuck him straight to hell, where he belongs.

He's fine! He sends his love!

Yes, R3, to a DLer whose boss was killed on Whitey's orders or at least one of the men he ordered a hit on. This particular murder was related to a jai alai fronton in Miami.

R3, it's notoriously 'understaffed' there and a virtual death sentence to get a transfer. He was left alone and they wheeled him into a corner and beat him to death. His eyes were gouged out with a makeshift shiv' as payback and a message for the rat he was. He had no friends left. His book became due, as they say on the street. Before, he may have been able to pay for some protection and get assigned to a prison with better security.

He got what he deserved, only I wish he got it years ago, too. Billy is still waiting for his.

I read a lot of people were wondering why he was being transferred before this happened, then he turns up dead the next day. Seems like a mob hit. Didn’t he snitch on a rival mob boss?

He did a whole lot of snitching for a long fucking time, R62, and on ALL of his rivals, but particularly the mob family out of Providence. They don't forget like elephants.

That prison has a new ghost just in time for Halloween!

Whitey was a rat who also teamed with the FBI to get the Italian mob in Boston. His brother was the President of the State Senate in Massachusetts...

Mr. Bulger got to know quite a few prisons over the years.

He had been incarcerated in Arizona, Oklahoma and Florida, and prison workers suggested that he had been moved once again — to Hazelton — after he had threatened a staff member at the Coleman prison complex in Sumterville, Fla. In one case, he was moved for using his charm to obtain special privileges from a prison staff member, according to someone familiar with his situation behind bars who spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the private nature of the information.

Mr. Bulger had been held in solitary confinement at a federal prison in Florida since March, according to the person. Prison officials had cited behavioral problems on the part of Mr. Bulger as the reason for moving him to solitary confinement, the person said.

For the most part, Mr. Bulger, who strenuously denied ever being a federal informant, was not threatened, harassed or attacked by other inmates in the various federal prisons, the person said.

But there was one instance in which Mr. Bulger was stabbed by another inmate while he was being held at a federal prison in Arizona. According to the person, the reason for the stabbing was unclear, but it was believed the inmate may have carried out the attack to try to get a transfer to another prison.

Mr. Bulger had suffered a series of heart attacks while in prison — more than half a dozen over the years — and was expecting to be moved to a medical facility run by the Bureau of Prisons. Instead, he was relocated to the West Virginia facility, where he was placed in the general prison population, according to some of the federal prison workers.

After Mr. Bulger’s body was found, roadblocks were put in place outside the prison complex, and a lock down — meaning prisoners could not leave their cells — lasted into the evening.

The good die young.

Whether it’s only one or two or many posters on this thread who live in MA, I want to thank you for sharing it here. Bulger was an uncommonly cruel, vindictive and relentless sociopath who tore through lives like toilet paper; it didn’t matter if they were the kids or wives of his victims, the fathers, or anyone who happened to be unlucky enough to stand in his way, he was a holy terror. Machiavelli could have taken lessons from him. If even a portion of what R61 described is true, it is not a surprise.

R27 posted exactly what and how a lot of people in Boston, or other parts of Massachusetts, would say and feel about the death of Bulger. My deep condolences R27 or any of the other posters here whom I suspect lost friends, family, loved ones, neighbors to that fucker’s calculated, cold blooded whim or choice.

You had to live here in Massachusetts during Whitey’s lifetime to try understand how pernicious and singularly toxic his effect was on the entire state. Just magnify that by tenfold to understand what it meant to be in closer range to Southie or his other specified locations.

R44 I think you mean the Isabella Stewart Gardiner heist. WBUR/NPR Boston affiliate is running a podcast about that still unsolved case. The priceless stolen artworks have never yet been found.

GARDNER not Gardiner. Sorry, error due to fatigue.

Thanks, R69. Yes, that is the heist I was thinking of. I wonder if any of the painting will ever show up?

The current thinking is that Bulger wasn't involved in the Gardner Heist, but knows who was.

Amazing the mafia still has so much power to finally make this hit so long after his testimony. I'll bet they catch up with Catherine Greig shortly after her release. The Feds are sure she has $$$ stashed.

R69, the various true crime forums have felt for years that law enforcement knows who was responsible for the Gardner heist but have never had the evidence to prove it, whether Burger was involved or not.

Don't mess with the Italian mob.

Tell us more @R58 Where can one read up on this? The movies and articles on this man don’t mention what you’re saying

[quote]Amazing the mafia still has so much power to finally make this hit so long after his testimony.

Equally amazing that Bulger managed to elude detection or capture for 17 YEARS after he and his ladyfriend went on the run, despite hiding in plain sight the entire time. He had $850K stash in their apartment in *cash* when he was finally captured! Cash! (Who the fuck uses cash for *anything* in the 21st century, let alone 850 Gs??)

[quote]Equally amazing that Bulger managed to elude detection or capture for 17 YEARS after he and his ladyfriend went on the run, despite hiding in plain sight the entire time.

Wasn't he thought to have been protected by the government for years, even from ongoing crimes, because he was an FBI informant?

Do I need to go back and reread about him?

Whitey, who hated that nickname, btw, submitted a winning lottery ticket on two occasions. The big prize, both times. I have to wonder how he did it. For the purpose of laundering money, I’d guess. But how did he get them?

[quote] ...his brother was the President of the State Senate in Massachusetts...

For a long te, yoo. Then he left to become President of UMASS.

All those "rough" neighborhoods, towns and cities, Somerville, Charlestown, Southie, the North End, the South End, Dorchester... now are all gentrified or in the process of being yuppified.

Who uses cash, R77? Criminals who have made their money illegally. If you deposit a lot of money in the bank, they and the IRS might ask silly questions like what is the source of your income.

Boston Strong

So was he or was he not protected by the government for years, despite ongoing crimes, because he sometimes was an informant?

The story of the good and bad brothers ...I wonder if the Showtime series called Brothers with Clarke as lead was based loosely on Whitey and his brother..

[quote] Whitey, who hated that nickname, btw, submitted a winning lottery ticket on two occasions. The big prize, both times. I have to wonder how he did it.

There was an article I vaguely remember in GQ or Vanity Fair, probably from the 90s, comparing and contrasting Whitey and his brother. Apparently when learning where the winning tickets were sold in Southie, his goons tracked down the winners and threatened them and their families unless they turned over the tickets. They relented and Whitey got his tickets.

One of the lottery tickets was won by a Southie local who talked about in a bar. Within hours Whitey's crew was on him to surrender it.

He was beaten to death, apparently. Beaten to the point where he was unrecognizable. One of his assailants reportedly was a Mafia hitman who was serving a life sentence for multiple murders.

I once worked for a restaurant in PTown. Once a week, I’d rise at 4 am, practically my normal bedtime, and drove to Boston to pick-up restaurant. supplies.

Once, while waiting for a cheese order. A guy entered the shop. He stated to the cheese seller:

“Vinny, they’re coming for me. They’re coming for me. You half to protect me...”

I studied the cans of tomato paste on display, until he left. I understand that the mob is gone since then. But who knows?

The mob is hardly gone. Diminished greatly, especially in Boston, but in NYC & NJ, most run legit businesses on the side, or use them to launder "other" income.

[quote] You half to protect me

What was his half life?

R50 do you have an actual point to make? Whitey was actually gay for pay hustler early on

[quote]Billy is still waiting for his.

The brother? I thought he was a good guy? (I’m not doubting you, I just don’t know much about this story.)

The brother *seems* like a nice guy.

After plastic surgery to change their appearances, Mr. Bulger and Ms. Greig settled in Santa Monica, Calif., in a small apartment a few blocks from the Pacific, in 1996. They called themselves Charlie and Carol Gasko and lived reclusively, paying their $1,145 monthly rent in cash.

He spent his days watching television. She took walks, went to a beauty parlor and — being a former dental technician — had her teeth cleaned monthly. They took occasional trips, but mostly stayed home. They were fugitives for so long, they had AARP cards.

[quote]The story of the good and bad brothers ...I wonder if the Showtime series called Brothers with Clarke as lead was based loosely on Whitey and his brother..

It was called Brotherhood and yes, it was inspired by the Bulger brothers.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

What a stud. He can shank me and gouge the eyes from my corpse anytime.

Mama’s pussy must be so moist after seeing R96.

More about this rat? How about the rats that still live and did the shit with him? Eddie McKenzie had the double mirror. Just ask his buddy, working for a big advertising firm and married to the daughter. He liked to set up the girls...a Kavanaugh type.....nice kid with a job and liked to work out with Eddie. Eddie wrote about his 'girls' in the book as if he cherished and loved women. What a fucking animal and an irony. I never read the book because I don't need to see their lies.

It was well known in that town what Whitey was like. He didn't like the knickname, so he killed another guy in the neighborhood who was getting popular, a nice guy, a real gem named Whitey McGrail. The story on the streets was he growled "only room enough in this town for one Whitey" before someone (Weeksy the weasel, probably) killed this hard working father and husband.

Those kids he used to groom and rape? Ask the Estes family how they got their house. They sold their sister, at gunpoint. She was 13. One day she's this little kid running around at the Boy's and Girl's Club. The next day she's got makeup, the latest styles, high heels and the family moves from the projects into their own home. It was spoken about and everyone knew. That was just ONE of many this fuck raped and debased. I know more....like the beating and raping of young teenage punks in the projects who were selling dime bags of dope. Whitey wanted the concession. The boats in the harbor, all of it. Once got visited by his FBI fuck of a friend, Connelly (SP?) and ran out of town the next day.

Billy, that fuck? Everyone knew that Billy pulled the legit strings to keep his brother protected and to run, unopposed, for years. Anyone going up against that cabal got a gun to the neck.....Jimmy Kelly was a pull popping psychopath who has an annual blood drive and is some fucking hero. I know who these people are and were. They can't get to me anymore.

The cabal is exactly who you think it is....Kelly, Hicks, Flynn....and more...their hold is now broken and I'm glad, but I won't be happy until I see Billy Bulger dead and buried in a wet grave, like his animal brother.

Have the prisoners replaced him in "Guys and Dolls" yet?

Thanks for being real, R102. I needed out of that dark space. You're a good egg.

😂😂😂 Hilarious.

R78, there is a long (of course) but compelling New Yorker article about how Bulger corrupted FBI agents and got them to cover up his crimes.

WHITEY BULGER KILLERS ATTEMPTED TO REMOVE HIS TONGUE ...

I was there when he moved his HQ back to Southie. Even the Winter Hill sidewalks breathed a sigh of relief.

Yeah, he was a shit, but it's the prison's responsibility to keep prisoners safe. Fuck them for putting an 89 year old wheel chair bound targeted guy in general population.

Unfortunately this kind of thing also happens to innocent guys in jail sometimes before they even go to trial.

Yeah -- it sounds like the Feds wanted this to happen

I read this morning that Whitey asked to be placed in the general population when he got to West Virginia but, of course, who knows how self-serving the BOP is being. They had an obligation to keep him alive and massively screwed up here. OTOH, I wonder if he knew what was coming and either preferred or at least resigned himself to this relatively quick - if painful - end to a more prolonged one in a prison medical facility.

What's sick is how corrupt the FBI in Boston was for years - they were protecting Bulger because they thought he was helping them to whack the Mafia - which he marginally was - while giving him carte blanche to murder and steal as he pleased. The Massachusetts State Police (no angels themselves) were as worried about cooperating with the FBI as they were about catching Bulger on state charges. What's amazing is that pretty much everyone in Boston knew what was going on long before Agent Connolly and the other dirty cops and agents were caught. The late lawyer, novelist, and BU prof George V. Higgins' last novel, "At End of Day" - written just before he died in 1999 and published posthumously - had every detail right a dozen years before Bulger was caught in Santa Monica.

One other sidelight was the local FBI's periodic jaunts to look for Whitey in exotic locales whenever they got a "tip" that Whitey had been seen in London or Paris or Rome or Honolulu and always, it seemed, at peak season when the weather was nice - nobody ever went looking for him in, say, the UK in the middle of winter.

R105, I hate the way people say Bulger corrupted the FBi agents. I heard a lengthy piece by a WBUR reporter this morning and he said the same thing - that Bulger corrupted the agents.

BULLSHIT

The agents willingly became corrupted. If they were men of any character whatsoever, they would have played Bulger as true agents of the FBI.

The federals who Bulger gave money and more to did incredible damage to the FBI - they are a stain (indelible, there's no washing it away). They were greedy bastards, plain and simple.

Bulger only corrupted those who wanted to be corrupted.

Reading about his crimes, sounds like Whitey got off easy, even at the end.

Italian Mobsters always have nice funerals.

I wonder what Billy is going to arrange?

A mass for the repose of Whitey's coal-black soul. Once you're dead, all bets are off.

So the killers just walked into Bulger’s cell and beat him to death? I thought prison cells were all locked.

I'd normally feel pity for any old man meeting such a wretched end, but having read a couple of books on Bulger--nope.

A stone sociopath who got what he deserved.

Yeah the prison should not have done this. Even for him. It’s not right.

R115 - apparently between the hours of 6 - 8am, the cells are not on perpetual lock - guys have to get to breakfast. That's what I read today in the local paper.

Robert Mueller was the US attorney in Boston covering up for Whitey. Small world.

I also felt that Jeffrey Daimler also was set-up to be killed. The prison seemed at least negligent in both cases.

Dahmer ^^

LIAR, R119....the US Attorney's office was the agency that finally outed the corrupt FBI agent, Connelly. Stop lying about Bob Mueller when all he's been charged with is to investigate someone else. If charges are brought against him, go for the throat, but you're just a cheap fucking troll looking to insert a lie wherever possible.

There was absolutely NO coincidence that he was sent here and he knew it. So goodbye to bad trash and recognize that justice has many faces, and not all of them are blind.

R110, the Boston cops themselves were corrupt as hell too, they scared the crap out of me. I walked into the 1270 in the 80s and saw one of the owners paying off the cops. The owner warned me later not to say anything, that the cops would kill me to save their jobs. The owners eventually worked with IA, but were harassed by the cops repeatedly. I think seven cops eventually lost their jobs. The 1270 closed shortly after.

These mafia figures/legends fascinate me. Great thread.

What’s the 1270?

A defunct gay bar at 1270 Boylston Street in Boston's Fenway district across the street from Fenway Park.

Thanks, R126.

can roger stone get his cell?

We need pictures of Whitey's killer's dick. Bet he's hung.

[quote] Bet he's hung.

That wasn’t the cause of death.

Killed by trade!

R122. Justice has many faces? Are you DL's Official Serial Killer?

r111 The "corrupt agent" narrative itself is bullshit. These informants are deliberately "run" by LEOs and all branches of the DHS. It's standard operating procedure, although controversial (especially when it involves national security.) The only difference in this case was the agent who ran him was overly ambitious, even for a Fed, and used Bulger to further his own career.

Even in my buttfuck Canadian cowtown, we have informants used on locally notorious cases who can and do whatever they want under the protection of the local police service. One currently runs a crackhouse.

R133 There was no Department of Homeland Security when Whitey was working.

"At the Coleman prison complex in Florida in September 2014, he was disciplined multiple times, including once for masturbating in front of a male staff member"

85 and still going

....

Remarkable that he lived through SIX heart attacks and a stabbing to reach the age of 89. And prisons don't have the best of health care.

The stories about his rule over Boston and his corrupt FBI handlers make me grateful for having the straight arrow Feds (LE and prosecutors) around. Imagine how awful the problem of unchecked organized crime would be. Probably on the scale that it is in Russia right now where the mob has a stranglehold on the country, all with Putin's blessing (is it any wonder he's reputed to be the richest man in the world?) It must be crippling to an economy, never mind the embargo on Russian oil and gas.

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t find myself reading about something that makes me grateful for the existence of the FBI.

The fatal beating was savage.

R123, did you know the 1270 bartender named “Danny”? He was a friend of mine.

He’s burning as we speak... LOL

R98 "Mama’s pussy must be so moist" upon seeing the photo of R96

Mama's pussy will feel like the Sahara when she learns reported Bulger killer Fotios "Freddy" Geas wears a size 6 shoe.

Paul and Petey beat him to death wth a lock....the second suspect is with the North Shore crime family.... So the suspected murders are mob affiliated. Oh this stinks of inside job.Even though i read Bulger went to VA for the medical carr he needed....sounds like somebody made sure he was greeted appropriately.

Bostonian here. It's weird to think but anyone who did cocaine in the late 80's in Boston probably did business with Whitey directly or indirectly.

My friend in Somerville had a condo that was right across from a garage that had been one of Whitey's hangouts. Anytime there was a news story about Whitey the news trucks would show up to do their story from there. We would look out the window and say, "Whitey's in the news today! " And then we would toke up.

The Italian Mob isn't very nice either, but I didn't like the way Irish law enforcement and the irish mob teamed up to go after them.

I remembered West Side Story when the cop tried to get the Irish Jets to team up with him against the Puerto Ricans and how disgusted the Jets became with him...

[quote] I remembered West Side Story when the cop tried to get the Irish Jets to team up with him against the Puerto Ricans and how disgusted the Jets became with him...

I think that is what we all remembered.

IIRC, on some Spring holiday, I think either St. Patrick’s Day or Evacuation Day, the 19th century Boston Italian boys would march from Boston’s North End to meet the Irish boys from South Boston, somewhere in the middle, and fight it out. Probably after attending Mass. Over nothing, of course.

Evacuation Day and St Patrick's Day is the same day, March 17.

I'd never heard of Evacuation Day until this thread.

St Patrick's Day is celebrated first, then Evacuation Day. It is often, but not exclusively, celebrated casually and spontaneously where the sidewalks meet the streets in South Boston during and after the parade.

Seriously, Evacuation Day celebrates the evacuation of British troops from Boston early in the American War of Independence.

Creating the Evacuation Day holiday was a sneaky Catholic way to make St Patrick's Day a paid holiday while getting around separation of church and state.

R148, then I’m thinking that the second holiday is Patriot’s Day.

Boston was occupied by the British very early in the Revolutionary War. The British were stationed in Boston and across the river on Bunker Hill in Charlestown. The Americans led by Washington were camped in Cambridge. My eleven year old 4th Great Grandfather was with them, serving as a drummer boy.

The Americans under Benedict Arnold captured Fort Ticonderoga in upstate NY, and transported the cannons and other armaments from that fort to Washington. The guns were used to fortify Dorchester Heights, putting them in range of hitting the British ships, while the British guns could not reach to the top of Dorchester Heights.

The British agreed to peacefully evacuate the city, along with loyalist colonials, if the Americans held their fire, which they did. This is the day that is still celebrated in Boston today.

Oh, Ethan Allen took credit for the victory at Ticonderoga, which embittered Benedict Arnold and was part of what led him to turn on the Americans and defect to the British side.

R147

Patriots Day (originally April 19th to commemorate the battles of Lexington and Concord on that date, now observed on the third Monday in April) is observed in Massachusetts with the Boston Marathon and before the baseball season was expanded, the Red Sox home opener as well as a recreation of the skirmishes at the Old Bridge in Concord and on the Battle Green in Lexington. It is also observed in Maine, Wisconsin, and Connecticut and "encouraged" (whatever that means) in Florida. It's a state holiday: only municipal and state employees get the day off.

I'm a Bostonian and the event you describe is not something I'm aware of, especially if it were to have occured in the 19th century as the North End of Boston was then still home to a largely Irish-American population. Italian immigration to Boston didn't began until the 1890's and peaked in the years following World War I.

It might have been the 20th century.

[quote] My eleven year old 4th Great Grandfather was with them, serving as a drummer boy.

Was he a good egg?

[quote] Oh, Ethan Allen took credit for the victory at Ticonderoga

Was this before or after the furniture.

[quote] Oh, Ethan Allen took credit for the victory at Ticonderoga

Was this before or after the furniture?

Of course he was a good egg! He marched with the Marblehead Boys to Bunker Hill and engaged the English there at that famous battle. Then served with Washington for another 9 months. He later lost a leg to amputation. He then became a painter. He died at age 70. That’s him, at the link, more or less.

The Marblehead Boys were all fisherman. When they served under Washington, they played a role in two crucial evacuations. When Washington was camped on Long Island with his back to the East river, the British were prepared to attack the next day. The Marblehead Boys carried their disassembled boats on their backs. They reassembled them silently at night, and rowed Washinton’s Army across the river to escape. Canon, horses, everything.

Likewise,when you see pictures of Washington Crossing the Deleware, that’s the Marblehead Boys manning the oars.

And they were all good eggs.

[quote] He marched with the Marblehead Boys

Did they give marbled head cheese to boys?

[quote] When Washington was camped on Long Island

Did Washington seat there long enough to pronounce it “Lonk Guyland”?

I guess I am flattered that you read it at all!

This Italian/Irish thing. If it is indeed the 20th century then it wasn't Southie Irish who marched, it was probably Charlestown Irish as they are adjacent to the North End. It would be quite a hike from Southie to the North End to fight and frankly Southie Irish are super neighborhood oriented. You didn't go to Southie will nilly. Most people aren't even aware that Boston had another large Irish population somewhere else. Now my Dad was from Charlestown but I never heard of such a thing a this yearly fight. And he was old enough to remember smelling molasses from the flood for years. He never missed a festival of St Joe in the North End.

R164

Whatever this person is referring to never happened in Boston the way it's being described here, whether in the 19th or the 20th century. You're right - Southie Irish thought they lived in the center of the universe so why would they go anywhere else? And not to disparage their fighting skills - they gave us prizefighters like Primo Carnera and Rocky Marciano - but Italians are soloists: they don't sing well together in the choir. Organizing them into fighting units has never worked. Just ask Mussolini. Hell, ask Garabaldi. It took an awfully long time (like, two millenia) to organize Italy into a country.

This sort of thing happens in Belfast, maybe, but that's Protestant Orangemen versus Catholics and everyone's Irish. In the 1930's, sadly, demagogues like Father Coughlin (crazy radio priest from Michigan) whipped up animosity towards the Jews in Boston that led to sporadic skirmishes with Irish Catholic kids beating up Jewish kids but it was never so organized as to occur on a particular day as a regular thing. I think I know a bit about the city's history and I never heard of anything like organized ethnic gangs fighting annually on the feast of St. Patrick.

To balance this virtue, the Puritan city had always hidden a darker side. Blackguard Boston was only too educational, and to most boys much the more interesting. A successful blackguard must enjoy great physical advantages besides a true vocation, and Henry Adams had neither; but no boy escaped some contact with vice of a very low form. Blackguardism came constantly under boys' eyes, and had the charm of force and freedom and superiority to culture or decency. One might fear it, but no one honestly despised it. Now and then it asserted itself as education more roughly than school ever did. One of the commonest boy-games of winter, inherited directly from the eighteenth-century, was a game of war on Boston Common. In old days the two hostile forces were called North-Enders and South-Enders. In 1850 the North-Enders still survived as a legend, but in practice it was a battle of the Latin School against all comers, and the Latin School, for snowball, included all the boys of the West End. Whenever, on a half-holiday, the weather was soft enough to soften the snow, the Common was apt to be the scene of a fight, which began in daylight with the Latin School in force, rushing their opponents down to Tremont Street, and which generally ended at dark by the Latin School dwindling in numbers and disappearing. As the Latin School grew weak, the roughs and young blackguards grew strong. As long as snowballs were the only weapon, no one was much hurt, but a stone may be put in a snowball, and in the dark a stick or a slungshot in the hands of a boy is as effective as a knife. One afternoon the fight had been long and exhausting. The boy Henry, following, as his habit was, his bigger brother Charles, had taken part in the battle, and had felt his courage much depressed by seeing one of his trustiest leaders, Henry Higginson--"Bully Hig," his school name--struck by a stone over the eye, and led off the field bleeding in rather a ghastly manner. As night came on, the Latin School was steadily forced back to the Beacon Street Mall where they could retreat no further without disbanding, and by that time only a small band was left, headed by two heroes, Savage and Marvin. A dark mass of figures could be seen below, making ready for the last rush, and rumor said that a swarm of blackguards from the slums, led by a grisly terror called Conky Daniels, with a club and a hideous reputation, was going to put an end to the Beacon Street cowards forever. Henry wanted to run away with the others, but his brother was too big to run away, so they stood still and waited immolation. The dark mass set up a shout, and rushed forward. The Beacon Street boys turned and fled up the steps, except Savage and Marvin and the few champions who would not run. The terrible Conky Daniels swaggered up, stopped a moment with his body-guard to swear a few oaths at Marvin, and then swept on and chased the flyers, leaving the few boys untouched who stood their ground. The obvious moral taught that blackguards were not so black as they were painted; but the boy Henry had passed through as much terror as though he were Turenne or Henri IV, and ten or twelve years afterwards when these same boys were fighting and falling on all the battle-fields of Virginia and Maryland, he wondered whether their education on Boston Common had taught Savage and Marvin how to die. -- The Education of Henry Adams

No one described in this autobiographical piece from the Education of Henry Adams is Irish, Italian, or Catholic except, perhaps, Conky Daniels and some of his "young blackguards" although Daniels is not an Irish name but rather one that originated in Gloucestershire, a part of England that was home to many of New England's first settlers. These fights were between the children of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants themselves; some of them, like Adams, children of the Brahmins and some of them the offspring of what have since been called "Swamp Yankees" - an earlier version of what has come to be known as white trash - these were the descendants of early settlers who got the worst, ie, swamp, land to settle and farm.

Adams is referring here to the north (the peak of Beacon Hill where the State House stands) and south (later the Back Bay but it hadn't been built by then so roughly where Arlington Street is now) ends of the Boston Common and Public Garden, not neighborhoods of the city. In fact, according to the Boston city census of 1855 (a couple of years after the period described above), there were no persons of Italian descent recorded as living in Boston. If as Adams writes these boys were later tested "ten or twelve years afterwards" in battle during the Civil War, he's referring to the early 1850's when Irish immigration to Boston, brought on by the famine there from 1845 to 1849, had just begun. Which is to say, there were not many Irish in Boston yet. And no Italians at all.

The South End (a neighborhood built on tidal marshes that were filled in with stone and soil removed from Beacon Hill from the 1830's to the 1850's and developed for housing after the Civil War), has nothing to do with South Boston. The West End is the area below the water side of Beacon Hill (Cambridge Street) now occupied by the Massachusetts General Hospital and Charles River Park. The North End neighborhood is to the east of the West End and had no connection, then or now, to those living on Beacon Hill as the Adams family did.

To recap, if indeed this is offered as the basis for the "on some Spring holiday, I think either St. Patrick’s Day or Evacuation Day, the 19th century Boston Italian boys would march from Boston’s North End to meet the Irish boys from South Boston, somewhere in the middle, and fight it out. Probably after attending Mass. Over nothing, of course" comment you can see that it is completely wrong in so many particulars and on so many levels: no Italians from the North End (as there were none in Boston), no Irish from South Boston (as there were very few Irish in Boston yet), and no Catholics (so not after attending Mass.)

It was offered to show the kids of Boston have always enjoyed a fight.

Thank you R167. So many folks think Boston is Southie and the Kennedys and nothing else.

South End is often mistaken for Southie,

I once copy edited a book that based it's premise on activity between Irish gangs on Monument Ave. I had the terrible job of having to explain to the writer (a non-Bostonian) that Monument Ave was not located in South Boston. The monument in question being the Bunker Hill Monument in Charlestown.

It was the Back Bay that was filled in with the soil and rubble taken off Beacon Hill, not the South End.

Also, the above mentioned "1270" was finally closed when a 16 year old girl was beaten and raped in the basement level bathroom.

R169 You are so right. It's further confused by people who refer to "The Monument" as any one of a number monuments, whether at Bunker Hill or Dewy Square or "The Monument" (actually, "The Soldier's Monument") at the intersection of Centre and South Streets in Jamaica Plain. When I was kid and told my Mom I was going to be hanging out with friends or cousins at "The Monument" I'd have to specify which one as we had family all over the city.

R170 The South End was part of the same project but was filled in before what is now the Back Bay. See bostongeology.com

[italic]"The land belonging to the South End has been part of the city of Boston since its creation, though at the time of first settlement it was much smaller and surrounded by large tidal flats. The neighborhood was expanded and developed by filling in the marshlands, part of a larger project of the filling of Boston's Back Bay (north and west of Washington Street) and South Bay (south and east of Washington Street), from the 1830s to the 1870s."[/italic]

[quote]My eleven year old 4th Great Grandfather was with them, serving as a drummer boy.

Am I reading this right: Your great-great-great-great-grandfather was 11 in 1775?

Not the poster but that's possible. My grandfather was born in 1882. Two generations of men had their children well into their forties.

President John Tyler, born in 1790 has two grandsons still alive. This is a case of Tyler and his son fathering children in their seventies. The grandsons re now in their 90's and still alive.

R151 does Evacuation Day have anything to do with Boston baked beans?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R140, what floor of the 1270 did your friend bartend on?

R170, I did not hear that about the rape of the 16 year old girl. So it was a male on female rape?

R175, inspired by Martin Cahill. I encourage everyone to watch “The General” if you haven’t already.

The rape was man on girl. 1270 was always very inclusive. My friend was the d.j. there for years. Fred Bowes, top floor.

Its's now a creepy sports bar and the McDonalds' next door was demolished and is now a parking lot.

At the maximum security state prison I know, the cells are not locked during the day. Neither are the blocks. There's a lot more movement within a prison than you'd expect. Of course, during lockdowns, everything is locked, but otherwise, people come and go-- kind of like in high schools, where you need passes to move around.

Anyone else watch the Showtime series Brotherhood?

It was based on the life of Whitey & his brother with Jason Isaacs and Jason Clarke in the leads. I loved it.

So he was moved because of disciplinary problems in FL?

You know the looney tunes gf has a hidden stash, especially after reading R175 's post. The feds shall be watching her like a hawk when she gets released, if the mob doesn't get to her in short order.

[quote] R172: Am I reading this right: Your great-great-great-great-grandfather was 11 in 1775?

Yes, that is correct. I’ve seen a copy of his Revolutionary War pension application for his 9-month service in the First Pennsylvania Rifleman’s Regiment, in the Continental Army.

I have an 1860 letter from my 2d Great Grandfather stating that my 11 year old 4th Great Grandfather (who he knew) marched from Marblehead with an irregular militia headed by Capt. Trevett, to join the battle at Bunker Hill. This was a week before he enlisted in the Continental Army. History shows that Capt. Trevett did indeed march as described, so he might have been with him. I just hired a genealogist to try to find some hard evidence that he was indeed at Bunker Hill, as the family letter isn’t definitive proof of anything.

[quote] R176: [R140], what floor of the 1270 did your friend bartend on

I don’t recall. It might have been the first floor. Did you know Danny?

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

I can’t find a source for my story about the Boston Italians and Irish fighting yearly on some Spring holiday. The story about the snowball fight posted above sounds familiar, so maybe that was what I was thinking about.

The writer regrets the error.

Thank you, r178.

R184, I did not know Danny by name. The last time I was at the 1270 was probably in 1989.

R184, wait, was Danny from Michigan?

No, Danny was from Weymouth, MA. I recall his father had abandoned his family.

You guys are spilling Danny’s tea for the whole world to see.

I though I mentioned it, but it seems I did not. I aged-out of nightclubbing, where I would occasionally bump into old friends like Danny I like the idea that people I liked but lost touch with, were out there somewhere, enjoying life, even if I never see them again. So I got curious once and googled Danny. I found that he passed away in the 1990s.

So, I think he’s “tea-proof” at this point.

R183, it’s not that I didn’t believe you, but my goodness the men in your family must have had some late-in-life babies.

President John Tyler Has 2 Living Grandsons

Tyler died in 1862, but he had 15 children and fathered some late in life. His living grandchildren weren't born until the 1920s, during the Coolidge administration.

R182, are you also R173?

‘Whitey’ Bulger hoped to be buried next to longtime girlfriend

[quote] [R183], it’s not that I didn’t believe you, but my goodness the men in your family must have had some late-in-life babies.

That’s right. My grandfather in that line was born in 1880. I’m 58. It amuses me that it’s a short hop back to the Revolution. My family goes back 12 generation in New England.

[quote] My family goes back 12 generation in New England.

I hope none of them commited Moosicide or, worse, has carnal relations with a moose.

R196, no, they stuck with their own. No Moose at all in my bloodline.

Eight of ten generations with my surname married and had children late, so it’s a short hop back to the pilgrims. None of that child-bride thing for which the plains farmers might be known.

My earliest ancestor in New England did apparently commit suicide at age 68. He was once fined for working on the Sabbath. A second time, he was acquitted, because “the cows really needed tending”. Tend those cows, Grandpa!

Whitey Bulger's Funeral Held in South Boston

By Alysha Palumbo and Kaitlin Flanigan

A funeral mass for James "Whitey" Bulger was held Thursday morning at a church in South Boston, the Archdiocese of Boston confirms.

Among those spotted at notorious Boston gangster's funeral, which took place at St. Monica's Catholic Church on Old Colony Avenue, included Bulger's brother William "Billy" Bulger, a former senate president, along with Margaret McCusker, the twin sister of his longtime girlfriend Catherine Greig.

No other details about the funeral were immediately available.

Photos at link

Lordy looks like Bulger owned some mini poodles with his girlfriend. I guess he had a soft side.

He’s still dead.