Negotiator-gays, help me buy my first car...

Honestly: you’re not a “cash-buyer” if it is being financed, and they are less likely to make concessions if they aren’t the financier (it won’t be made back in fees or interest).

IMO, you are doing the right thing buying a slightly used car that someone else took the biggest depreciation hit on. We’ll see what others have to say, but if you can’t truly pay cash and walk away, you might get a better deal financing through the dealership. (I would also recommend terms that there is no penalty if you pay off early).

R1 - I hear you, but if I'm going in with a pre-approved loan, I'll have a stronger hand in negotiations, don't you think? If the dealer can beat the bank's rate, great!

And, yes, I learned my lesson from the last brand new car I bought. I'm never buying new again.

The dealer want to make Honda America money by financing you through them. You will likely have less negotiating power if they know you won't be financing with them. I'd keep that information to yourself until the deal is about done. And realistically Honda America probably offers great percentage rates, maybe better than what you can get otherwise. Good luck.

Yeah I know. And then they'll ask me what monthly rate I want to pay, so that they can find the best terms for that monthly rate that allow them to pack on all their added fees and unnecessary expenses.

Are sales people's commissions impacted by who the financial institution is?

OP, apologies that I misunderstood: I agree that you should go in with a financing offer that they need to compete with.

As you clearly “get” the new car game I won’t belabor this.....just make them work for financing this over a third party. And make sure terms allow you early payoff with no penalties. The latter is most important, and most will agree: simply because most don’t actually pay it off early.

If you are single, you might want to change to a 2-door model in black or charcoal grey, with dark sport-wheels and tinted windows. That red, 4-door looks like a mom's car.

Go get 'em OP!

okay, we need to dispel some misunderstandings. I’m sorry.

Financing through the dealer is where everyone gets screwed. The dealership never holds paper - it’s sold to the bank and the dealership gets a cut of the action. Essentially, you’re paying much more for the car whenever you finance through the dealer. So, never ever ever do this. It’s terrible.

If you aren’t comfortable negotiating - use a negotiating service. Some suck ass. They’re terribly proud of getting you $500 off list. That’s idiocy. Unless you’re buying a luxury car, you should be able to get 25% off through rough and tumble negotiations. Not your bag? You’re like most people. Call your insurance company. Many of them offer a car buying service. Belong to Costco? They have a car buying service. They can prenegotiate a price for you so it’s about as easy as buying from CarMax but getting a new car. Honestly, buying a new car is rarely your best bet as the darn things depreciate about 30% in the first year. But, that’s up to you.

Get those written quotes, go online. Look for the advertised prices for the close outs and advertised internet deals. Pay attention here: PRINT OUT anything that’s an advertised internet deal. Don’t take something in that’s on your phone or laptop to the dealer. PRINT IT. If you find a ‘17 or ‘18 on the lot advertised as new that’s dealer inventory you can generally negotiate a much better deal than a ‘19.

So you find a car that has a good deal you can handle from the dealer that’s an internet special. You sit down with the slick haired dude and it’s damn near a guarantee he’s going to be a different price on the quote than what you have printed out. He’ll hand you some BS line that “oh that’s a different car” or “that deal expired”. That’s why you printed it: prove the validity of the offer, the specific vehicle and the price. He must legally honor that price. I’ve had dealers try to pull a fast one and over charge me only to write me a check for much more than the difference as a result.

Every car on the lot is covered by the dealership’s bank financing called “floorplan”. The dealership pays less interest on the inventory it carries than you will pay when you finance through the dealership. So don’t. Don’t get their extended vehicle plan. It’s bull. See if your insurance company offers one - it’s generally much less expensive.

Don’t even buy floormats from your dealer. Be blunt “If you plan on selling me this f@@king car, have it ready in 30 minutes because I’m leaving with or without it. Got it asshole?” Don’t be nice. Otherwise, they’ll screw you.

They’ll play the idiot game of dickering over price. Give them the price you’re paying and when he says he has to talk to his manager, say “I’m clearly wasting my time with someone too damn junior. Have an adult call me”. Get up and leave. Head straight to the door and don’t look back.

If your offer was in the ballpark, a manager will call either intercept you before you get out the door or call you. Otherwise, you avoided wasting your time.

My last 2 cars, I’ve gone in with a cashiers check with the amount I was going to pay. I’ve left with the car both times. Yes, I am an asshole. I spend months researching cars, tracking them around the country and finding the exact one that I want.

I like your style, R8.

That's a boring car. Why bother?

Since you're not buying new, it complicates the process of trying to determine the price you should pay. I think if you do your research, you might be able to buy a new car for the same price (or even less) than a one-year-old certified pre-owned.

When I was looking for a new Honda CR-V last year, I came upon a forum that had a "Prices Paid" thread on it, where people around the country posted the price they paid for their car (with all the specs spelled out). Some posters even mentioned the dealerships involved, and someone posted an excel spreadsheet where he tabulated all the data from the posters. I was surprised how far below sticker price a lot of the dealers were willing to go. Where you live can make a big difference as to how negotiable the price is however, and the data noted the locations of the purchasers.

I emailed several dealerships around me, asking them what their best price was on the model I wanted. I received several quotes, and using the best price, I emailed other dealerships asking them if they could beat that price (which was already a pretty good price, based on my research, and I was very careful to note that the price included the documentation fees and all the extraneous bullcrap they try to pull over on you). Some did actually give me better quotes, and others said they could beat it, but I would need to come into the dealership. I was annoyed by the ones that told me I needed to come in, and was ready to strike them from my list on principle, but I figured I had nothing to lose and went into one such dealership just for kicks. I went in there not intending to buy, I just wanted to get a quote, but they refused to give me a price unless I was committed to purchasing that day. I told him I couldn't commit to purchasing anything unless he told me the price first. He told me he was going to have to wish me a good day then. Well, I figured I had nothing to lose, and gave him a price lower than I had read about anyone being offered in all my research. He went away and said he'd have to speak to some higher up, which I figured was just a big game, but whatever. When he came back he offered me a price slightly above what I had thrown at him, and I was shocked. So I ended up getting about $3500 off the sticker price.

R8 I know a lady friend who sells cars for a living. She is honest, and works at a well-respected, successful AND fair Subaru dealership. She tells me all the time about customers like you. One doesn't need to negate the salesperson's humanity, insult them, call them derogatory names and attempt to intimidate them to obtain a good deal. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Same for you R9. That isn't style you are in awe of poster #9, that is a self-admitted asshole. I have always paid cash and even obtained better than 25%..... I didn't call anyone names or begin on adversarial footing either. You are actually a cunt, not an asshole.

R12 no I don’t have to be ashamed. Cars are marked up and this is sales. I sell technology for a living so I know the margins, techniques and sales tactics.

Anybody who tries to tell you they’re “honest and ethical” but are on commission are bending you over the table at the same time. Good for you. Enjoy the ride. Paying cash does not get you a better price. The dealer has zero incentive to lower the price just like a trade in gives the dealer no incentive to give you a better price. Both give you a higher price. That’s the sucker play.

The reason I get better prices? Research. Homework and 40 years of experience in sales. Most of the sales people you deal with last less then a year at a dealership . Typically, they have six months to make their quota before they’re let go. So, tell me more about your “friend”, car sales frau. I call bullshit.

How many suckers have you pulled the “dealer prep” and “transporation” and “undercoating” scam on? Yeah. Fuck you.

I heard that you can get the best deals towards the end of the month (any month). I guess that's due to the salespeople wanting to make some type of monthly sales amount.

Go take your finger-waving bullshit elsewhere, R12. Car salespeople should be treated as R8/R13 describes. So should realtors.

R13 You may be winning in your greedy tiny mind, but you know squat about how to treat your fellow human beings. Being steadfast in one's resolve, not backing down is something different from what you espouse entirely. There are better tactics wherein one's humanity and integrity remain intact. You are a quintessential example of why the world thinks so little of so many Americans. You reek of entitlement and your inordinate pride in being a prick is most unattractive. You obviously have been falsely led to believe you are exceptional and do not owe people you deem beneath you any respect. You make me want to kick you in your cuntbone to bring you down a few pegs.

Great thread. The absence of transparency and wildly different pricing for one of the. most expensive purchases an average person will make drives me crazy. How can they get away with this in a supposedly “efficient” market?

R11 - I like your style. R8 - research and diligence are respectable. If you have to be an asshole - which you don’t if you did your research and simply stand fir, - I’d rather not get the car. You gotta treat people with respect - but you also don’t have to pay a penny more than what you think is a good deal. More than one way to skin a cat.

R13 She's no frau, a cool single elderlez in NY. Complete antithesis of frau. She has had many repeat customers and their successive generations buy from her. She deserves respect as any other hardworking honest person. You queens are jaded and starting out on the wrong foot.

You've already done the smartest thing: getting your financing from a bank beforehand.

Cheers.

Civics are a dime a dozen. Negotiate hard. They're not special cars, and you should be able to get well under sticker. Always negotiate the transaction price. Do NOT tell them what you want your monthly payment to be (a common mistake). Be willing to walk away (even if just for dramatic license). Good luck, boo! Hope to see you in your Civic soon!

My car buying strategy — I buy the best car I can afford, one that I know I will enjoy driving for a long time. Then I drive it for a long time.

Maintenance is key for this strategy.

I’ve bought two brand new cars in my life so far. One I drove for 19 years and the other for 18 years (so far). My last car will be an electric model when the time comes.

R13 and your fanclub... You're still all cunts. Gentlemen get deals everyday. You get more bees with honey. These salespeople hate you, and shall do nothing for you in the future. You always state this is what I can or am willingy to pay... X dealership can do this, could you possibly do better, or throw in something? Generally when you are nice, yet firm they tell you you have a deal. If you do the homework as you claim, why must you take their eyes and teeth? Surely they get to make a profit too; that is business. Not you coming in and expecting to get paid to take their merchandise. Amateur Cunts the lot of you. You don't walk in, call people assholes, and toss around the F word. You all sound like classic American Mafia types to me.

Please don't call the guy/gal ugly names. There's no reason for it.

If you don't like what they're offering, just get up and tell them you have to go.

[quote] I hear you, but if I'm going in with a pre-approved loan, I'll have a stronger hand in negotiations, don't you think? If the dealer can beat the bank's rate, great!

You already have a God-given strong hand in negotiations: you have the money, they need to make a sale.

The purpose of getting your financing before is that it helps NOT muddy the waters. (Plus you almost always get a better deal from the bank itself.) One of the tactics of these places is to try to keep you there for hours til you tire out, so that you'll sign a shitty financing deal AND pay too much for the car. It behooves you to walk in with the financing already done, so you can focus on the price of the car without the dickering from the financing.

Go to a few places. Shop around. Research the real world sale prices online so you have a real target. Don't try to be Mr. Tough Guy--it drains your emotions. When they give you a shitty offer, it's best to respond by being non-committal, telling them you'll think about it, and wandering away from their office.

In all negotiations, the one who loses control of their emotions (anger, whatever) first always loses.

Good luck.

^^looses

Exactly R23.... There are plenty of other honest dealerships willing to make the sale, and there are most certainly many of cars here to go around in the States.... No reason not to just politely walk away. Other dealers do have certain margins for specific vehicles.... It depends what they have in it.... Just like antiques, some have restoration/conservation. Please don't assume you are being duped or lied to each and everytime you don't get your way in business. This is the pyschopathy involved.

R24 You sound smart and normal too.... Not like some other proud cunts here.

OP, you said that you wanted to buy a 2017 certified pre-owned. I understand the allure of the certified pre-owned stamp, but you do pay a premium for that, which somewhat defeats the purpose of buying used. It may be worth it for the piece of mind when buying an older car, because it comes with a warranty. But in your case, I don't think it's worth it, because any 2017 Civic you buy will still have a warranty on it anyway.

WHAT’S WRONG with CHINA–A Study of Unchanged National Character

Chinese factory owners hate to see their customers happy, because it means that money has been left on the table.

Similarly with Chinese customers. A Chinese friend of mine, once established in America, decided to buy a car. He picked the model he wanted, went to a showroom, and began haggling. So persistent was he—“Oh come on, you can give me another fifty dollars on that!”—they threw him out, almost literally. Two of the salesmen pushed him into the street, one at each elbow.

“That,” he exulted, telling me the story, “was when I knew I’d found their price!”

The downside of this high level of commercial acumen is long-term commercial failure. Chinese merchants can’t resist the temptation to kill the golden goose for the sake of a couple more cents on the dollar.

R27, thank you. I'm R23 and R24.

Cheers R30

Why aren't you buying a Bentley Continental?

I'm laughing at R8, thinking he's the first person to try and pull off lines like "I need to speak to an adult"

Because you know, no one has ever tried that before...

My experience has been that once you do your research, and have a sense of what you should pay, it's a trade off-- do you save $500 or do you get the car you want--the color, the features, etc. And is it worth paying a few dollars extra to avoid the hassle factor-- yes car mats are cheaper elsewhere, but do you want to pay a few dollars more and be done with it or do you want to go shopping for them?

r33 is photogenic

Anyone used Costco's car buying service wherein they negotiate "exclusive" lower prices on vehicles with select dealers in your area?

r12. get over yourself. I’ve been in sales for 40 years . You don’t have a thick skin - and you better develop one if you plan on being in sales.

The customer has an obligation to get the best deal possible. If that means screwing me sideways, walking all over me and tossing me out the nearest window - that’s what they do. There are times I’ve bought customers a hell of a dinner because they’ve beat my ass like a kettle drum and taught me something seriously novel.

But the relationships you make as a result of a tough negotiation? That’s where the fun is. On either side of the table, real pros love to win and it isn’t personal - unless you make it personal.

r33 a few dollars? Try about $25K on a BMW.

Car mats for a BMW are $25k?

Who knew.

No, foolish child. I negotiated that much of one.Took 3 months.

Let them think that you're going with their financing OP and get them to agree on a good price, then "change your mind" and go with your previous approved loan but insist on the same price. Be prepared to walk away.

Remember, if the sales guy doesn't hate you when you're done, you're doing it wrong.

Well, which one are we talking about? There are BMWs that are 36k; there are BMWs that are nearly 200k. What was the MSRP and what did you finally end up paying?

And let's all keep in mind here we're trying to advise someone buying an off-lease Honda Civic.

[quote] if the sales guy doesn't hate you when you're done, you're doing it wrong.

Stupid advice.

^ salesman

You should be buying a new car.

Nobody wants sedans today... everybody is buying SUVs of every size and price range.

There are huge incentives available on sedans, like 4 to 5k off the seliing and 0% financing available.

[quote] And let's all keep in mind here we're trying to advise someone buying an off-lease Honda Civic.

Thank you R41. Like I said at R33, OP is not going to be negotiating sizable amounts of money off a car that, depending on bells and whistles, is somewhere in the vicinity of $25K.

[quote]And let's all keep in mind here we're trying to advise someone buying an off-lease Honda Civic.

A 2017 Civic (one year old), like the OP wants, is not anywhere near being “off-lease”.

It’s a car that was wrecked and the owner off-loaded it.

I'm certainly not a saleswoman.

But I've purchased many Toyotas (and a few other mistakes), and have tagged along with my father who has purchased many 100K and up cars. The way people in that bracket buy cars is very different, but I've never heard any profanity exchanged. (And my father drives a hard bargain on everything--it's his job and he's great at it. )

And I'm telling you, OP, keep your emotions out of every negotiation. You don't want to hate or be angry at the salesgal/salesguy; you don't want to provoke anyone into "hating" you.

It's a very low-class, loser mentality.

We're almost in 2019. The car industry is beginning a downturn--actually, cars will get cheaper in a few months.

Yes, a 2017 can be off-lease. Next year's cars are already on the lot in a month.

I bought a 330i new, fully loaded that had an msrp because of the stupid crap the dealer put on it at $64K. Not a chance. Got it at $40 with everything totalled including replacing the tires. I hate continentals. That was my only upfront expense.

I’ve never had to have evidence of a pre-approved loan. I just tell the dealership finance guy what the rate is at my bank and they undercut it. Although, I have decided to no longer have a car payment. My current car I just paid in full with a check. I only get a new car every 10 years, so it’s not hard to pay in full.

Why are you bringing profanity into it R47? It's awesome that your dad's rich enough not to care about price (allegedly) but the rest of us aren't there to make friends.

It's business pure and simple and they want to saddle you with high interest loans, that's how they make their money. I don't want them to like me when I leave, I want to get a good price without being on the hook for masses of debt.

R51 = Chinese according to R29. These are the people who are starting to run the world - and we wonder why life is getting steadily suckier. Of course, the English deserve some of the blame for starting capitalism and America for making it a way of life.

I have R29 blocked R52 so I've no idea what she's talking about. Capitalism isn't even really capitalism at this point though, it's basically legalizing theft on a large scale.

I'm not the one who brought profanity into it. This poster did--

[quote] Don’t even buy floormats from your dealer. Be blunt “If you plan on selling me this f@@king car, have it ready in 30 minutes because I’m leaving with or without it. Got it asshole?” Don’t be nice. Otherwise, they’ll screw you.

About this--

[quote] It's awesome that your dad's rich enough not to care about price (allegedly) but the rest of us aren't there to make friends.

You misunderstood. He cares most about the price, but he's smart enough to know that insulting people is not an effective strategy.

Don't most people know that R54? It's pretty basic.

R36 I'm retired and sitting pretty with a clean conscience regarding how I treat others. I was in sales years ago before buying and owning two businesses. One can make profit with a clean conscience. You are projecting, and likewise probably screw your clients every which way to Sunday. This is why you maintain your zeitgeist or warped world view. People like you always assume others are as morally bankrupt. Life has rewarded me for playing fairly and respecting my fellow man. I'm fifty and never need to work again. Think twice about what you are putting out into the universe. Thick skin has nothing to do with your crass methods of trying to obtain a fair deal.

A Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid. Then have a Level-2 charging station installed in your garage. You'll love it.

OP, it helps to bring someone. Someone who has the guts to be frank and honest. Not someone who says the TP paper on your shoe is a nice touch and shows how tough and independent you are. Consider talking to them privately before signing anything. Most of my friends are wimps and afraid to speak so directly (until it’s too late, sometimes.)

Always remember this: [bold] “It is not a disaster if you do not buy the car you want at the moment, even if you lose the car. There will be other, similar cars.” [/bold] Any high pressure sales technique should make you less interested, not more. They are designed to increase your fear, and make you over-pay. This is true for almost any purchase for a product that is not unique or rare.

R58 has two good tips.

Seems as if a lot of the posters here are alums of Trump University and "Being a First Class Asshole" is one of its most popular courses.

Buy a car in December; you’ll get a great deal.

R60 Indeed. Makes it clear one doesn't need to wonder about the tales salespeople share of terrible customers either.

[quote] I bought a 330i new, fully loaded that had an msrp because of the stupid crap the dealer put on it at $64K. Not a chance. Got it at $40 with everything totalled including replacing the tires. I hate continentals. That was my only upfront expense.

If I had to guess, the car had been sitting there for quite a while unsold and the dealer was thrilled he had someone, anyone who would consider buying it.

Because let's be real--if it was something desirable, the dealer would have waited a week and gotten something much closer to asking price for it.

My realtor tried to tell me “rich buyers were flying in from California to buy” the place I was interested in, over the upcoming weekend. They wanted me to increase my bid. I told them, “fine, they can have it”. “They” apparently did not want it. I wound-up buying it a week later. I had figured that if I lost it, I’d just find somewhere else. Though, I’m glad I got it, as it has been perfect for me.

When I last bought a car in 2005, I could not get the dealer to drop his price. He said that internet-advertised deals were hard-priced and not flexible. I left and went back a week later, and still they wouldn’t drop it. So, I just bought it then at the list price.

I’ve only bought used vehicles with the Honda pre-owned certified extended warrantee, over the last 20 years or so, and that works well enough, I guess.

Did you try other dealers R65? How much below MSRP was the online "deal"? BTW, I'm so glad you didn't insult anyone or play weird head games.

The markup on cars is a closely held secret. What you're trying to do is to find the sweet spot where you get close to the dealership cost plus an additional $500-1500 to keep them in business and pay their employees. So a $30,000 car might actually cost the dealership $22,000. They will "generously" dicker down to about $26,000. (Because they will still earn $4000 on the car). You want to bring them closer to $23,000 or 23,500. The services that have been mentioned above that show what deals people elsewhere in the country have been able to get on the same model car are helpful. No need to be rude. You can always say, as others have mentioned, "you know, this is still more than I feel comfortable playing. I'm going to do some more research and see if there's someplace I can get this car and model cheaper. I'll come back if this is the best price I can find" and start to walk away. If they have more bargaining elbow room, they will chase after you. If they do negotiate the price down and suddenly you're seeing add-ons (vehicle deliver fee is a big one, as well as car mats, etc etc) walk away again.

But consider buying a used car directly from an owner, using craigslist or some other service. You can use carfax or another internet service to get the vehicle history, including servicing records, make sure it's a clean title (no repairs, no wrecks, no rebuilds). Inspect the car thoroughly, drive it with the owner, make sure it works, has no issues. The warranty that that car had with the first owner will still be good with you if the title is clean. Generally private sellers use blue book amounts to derive their car's current value. You can negotiate slightly down from that. It will usually be $2000-3000 less than the same vehicle would be from a dealership.

All that being said, I needed/wanted a new prius when the hatchback model came out in 2004, because my mom had a wheelchair and the previous models of prius had trunks that were too small. I paid a premium because there was a limited inventory, there were no previous model years to buy a used one , and I was living in an area of the country where few were being sold. I owned it until I was in a car wreck 10 years later, but the savings I made in gas and environmental damage was worth it to me.

Since then I've bought two used vehicles through craigslist and have been satisfied that I got very good prices on both. (Another Prius and a Nissan leaf).

[quote]When I was looking for a new Honda CR-V last year, I came upon a forum that had a "Prices Paid" thread on it, where people around the country posted the price they paid for their car (with all the specs spelled out).

R11 (or anyone else) -- do you have a link to this forum? Would be interesting to use it as a reference.

r68, the forum I found was specifically for the Honda CR-V, as that was what I was interested in. I've included a link to the 2018 pricing thread below. I imagine other cars have similar threads in their forums.