Was Michael Jackson Overrated?!

He was amazing when he was young. Dangerous in 1991 was his last good album, it was all downhill after that IMHO.

He was extremely masculine.

R2 LMAO

Very overrated.

Same dance moves. Same "hehe owww" every song. Many sounded the same. His voice was grating. He had some brilliant moments and had a ton of charisma but very overrated. He atrocious personality is a huge turn off.

I remember thinking as a kid he had a really impressive voice. When he did the song "She's Out of My Life" was about the last time his voice alone impressed me. His dancing the moonwalk was fine, though he started to do these squeaks and sing more falsetto and with whimpers after that. Some of the production of his songs were impressive, but they were overplayed so much I got used to them. But the voice itself started to not impress as much as he had up to around 1981 or 1982.

He was for 20 years a great artist. Then he was for 20 years a horrible man. Et voila thread closed.

I liked him PRE-Thriller. But not that much. He was just a popular pop singer then. After that he was over-rated and over-exposed when the tacky MTV 80s kicked in.

Even his most iconic performance , Billie Jean in Motown anniversary concert was lipsyncing, Not live singing

He was the kind of guy you could do it to in the restroom of a Hardees’.

I think he had 3 classic albums starting with Off The Wall, and it was all downhill after that. I do think Quincy Jones had a lot to do with making them sound as good as they do. Do I think he is the greatest pop genius who ever lived - not really. But I was a kid at the peak of his fame and I understand why people loved him then (we didn't know about all the ugly stuff to come back then, ok?).

I hated the hiccup he was always doing in his songs

Considering no heir apparent has been able to match his talent or crossover appeal, absolutely not. If anything, his later work is underrated today. Dangerous has some of the sophisticated pop songs of their era. He elevated concerts to spectacles, music videos to art form, and revolutionized dance choreography. He's also arguably the most successful child performer who ever lived.

Poll please

He made me wanna finger my asshole!

I liked this song but not the gross mock turtle shirt he wears in the video.

R14 = Macaulay Culkin

R12 = Tito Jackson

He had three great albums which is a lot, but then mental illness caught up with him. And in some ways the more mentally ill he became the more some people insisted he was the greatest pop artist there ever was. So, yeah, he became way over-hyped. Look at how much praise he got for the moon walk; a move he didn't even invent.

After BAD, yes!

Quincy Jones had a lot to do with his success, OTW, Thriller and Bad...After that it all went downhill

No he was not overrated.

R12 I actually preferred Donny Osmond, but anyway Judy Garland, Shirley Temple and Deanna Durbin might disagree with you about great child performers, though Michael I agree was better as a kid than as a adult, at least vocally for the most part.

Overrated? Hell no. I remember how dumb he sounded in interviews (Madonna is another) but his creativity and musical talent will never be matched. I of course had the Thriller album as I child and still remember the glossy centerfold, the liner notes, the smell of the plastic/cardboard,the order of the songs and how many times I played it. I remember it being such a valuable possession back then. He did get weird but he put his heart and soul into everything and nobody does that anymore.

R23 I don't think he was ever dumb. He was just extremely lonely and struggled with addiction issues most of his life.

Read the chapter in Ronan Keating's book (the cute blond guy from Boyzone) about when MJ sends a minion/bodyguard over in a hotel lobby to see if Ronan would like to be introduced to him like a queen's guest or whatever. Holding court. "Fuck no, why would I want to do that?" is Ronan's response and that kind of sums Michael Jackson up to me. Talented but always put himself in some other world and it was annoying.

This was incredible. He was not overrated.

Only a young man could perform like that. Jackson didn't go to dance school he really picked up what he wanted from streets. But he had choreographers helping him. He was really good for about 10 years.

Speaking of young men who can move street style, is this REALLY Marky Mark busting. Pretty impressive

~I used to hate that break dancing.

I don’t think he was mentally ill. He was a narcissist and a pedo, as well as a man who had been abused by his father as a child. But narcissism and a history of abuse doesn’t equal mentally ill.

He wasn't overrated for his time. Unfortunately his twisted demons got the best of him and made him butcher his face and do the allegedly horrific things he's accused of doing, and eventually killed himself as a drug addict. Everything he did was a spectacle, good or bad. His sister on the other hand has always been overrated.

Ignore his later work, when he had lost the touch. His turn-of-the-century album still holds the record for the most expensive ever, 30 fucking million! And it barely went gold. Remember him for his peak era albums, especially the first two, Off The Wall and Thriller. The music still holds up, if you're not a discophobic, trailer-trash dickhead.

His work with the Jacksons is definitely overlooked in comparison to his later work. Make no mistake, Michael Jackson was the Jacksons and the Jackson 5. He is also one of the few mainstream artists to dabble in and successfully pull of so many different genres. Speaking personally, his music influenced my taste in music to this day. I suspect that's true for a lot of people who grew up during that time.

Dangerous was just as good as Bad, if not better. Who is It is in my top 5 MJ songs.

Dangerous was already a hit but was slightly undercut by the sexual allegations and the release of Nirvana's Nevermind. It popularized the New Jack Swing sound which was the most popular form of R&B throughout the early to mid nineties. His next albums didn't break new ground but produced many solid singles that are underrated. The fact that he still attained that much success when his personal life was in a shambles is remarkable in itself.

Nothing beat the 80s trio of OTW, Thrilled and Bad. He peaked with Black and White.

For a while he was really something, although too much was made of that "moonwalk" shit. People seemed to think he invented it but it was an old dance move, VERY old. As time went on he became more and more insane and his talent, what was left of it, paled in comparison to his madness. He never would have been able to do that "This Is It" tour, which was supposed to be his final performances. He was a mental and physical wreck. He probably would have dropped dead during one of the numbers if he hadn't died of a drug overdose.

Not as overrated as Madonna, but close.

My god, he looks terrifying in OP’s video, like an evil monster

He was tremendous as a young boy.

While working my way through college at Tower Records at its 5th and Mercer store, this masterpiece was released.

Damn.

I must have bought records from you, r41 (I take it you mean 5th and Mercer in Seattle).

He is both overrated and underrated.

He was overrated in the sense that:

His music at the peak of his career was good but not that great. It was incredibly catchy but shallow at the same time. I don't consider any of his songs pop standards in the way I would John Lennon's Imagine or Aretha Franklin's "Respect."

He was underrated in that he:

1. Was the first major black international superstar to reach the godlike status of Elvis, The Beatles and Bee Gees.

2. Was an incredibly influential pop artist.

3. Probably one of the best showman/performance artists of all time and considered one of in a long line of legendary performers like Sammy Davis, Jr., Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire.

4. Like R40 said, was shockingly talented for his age.

5. His music pretty much dominated an entire decade, much like Sinatra had done in the 1940s, Elvis in the 1950s and The Beatles in the 1960s. If you look at how there are no "dominant" artists today, you'll see and appreciate why being able to dominate an entire decade is so impressive.

6. Broke the color barrier on MTV, paving the way for other black artists to finally appear.

7. Completely reinvented the music video. I know that no one cares about music videos anymore, but before MJ, music videos looked like absolute shit. He is the reason why music videos today look so polished and became taken seriously enough to have actual cultural impact (to where kids were actually looking to videos for pointers on how to dress). Plus many of his videos became so iconic that decades later, people would do flash mobs recreating the Thriller video all over the world.

Video below showing what a great showman he was. Is there one artist today who actually does complicated, carefully choreographed moves like this while performing? Of course not.

The music was always enough before this manufactured need for videos and "complicated, carefully choreographed moves like this while performing," about which I never gave two fucks.

R43 said exactly what I felt about him. His crossover marked a major cultural shift and was historic. But his music was so repetitive and I absolutely hated all his vocal tics. At the end, I could not bear hearing his songs, and that had nothing to do with his sexual issues. I just hated his music. To me, the minute he became unlistenable was that asinine song he did in which Lisa M. Presley and he looked like Tinkerbelle and her best friend half dressed. Of course when I say Tinkerbelle I mean MJ, not Presley. Good that was embarrassing.

But the era of Don't Stop til You Get Enough was fantastic.

Jackson was so talented, that it's almost an existential injustice that we can't enjoy his work because he was so messed-up and had such an unhealthy dynamic with children. I feel bad for the kids, first and foremost but it also makes me angry that I can't enjoy his gift because of his bad behavior.

Stop being dense, R45. The point is that MJ went above and beyond what was necessary to perform his music, which is why he became so highly rated (and can't be called overrated). It wasn't to make the case that "complicated, carefully choreographed moves like this while performing" was needed. When you don't do more than you really have to, you're just okay. When you step things up a notch, you're considered a step above the rest and deservedly so.

Same reason why Mick Jagger, David Lee Roth and Freddie Mercury are also highly rated. They weren't just decent singers; they were amazing showmen/performers.

More people about whom I never cared, r48. I like music more than "showmanship."

I don’t think he is overrated as an entertainer at all. He was very talented. But I do think who Micheal ended up becoming as a person and as an artist very late in his career maybe makes him look overrated today. We remember him now more for his creepy plastic surgery, tabloid scandals, pedo behavior, etc than for his early brilliant singing and performing in the Jackson 5, and his well-crafted pop songs on his first three or four albums (especially Off The Wall and Thriller) What really makes him look overrated is his creepy fan base... his status to them as some kind of all-perfect human being makes him look overrated to me.

He was a gifted and talented singer. He however had the same dance moves choreographies in every single tour. Overrated entertainer!!

R44 Thank you for that video. Who'd have thunk that the little Michael of the Jackson 5 would end up become such a great dancer? It wasn't evident even in the Off The Wall era. Something inside of the guy made a conscious choice to incorporate dance into the deal. He must have had such a strong will and an intense drive that made him strive for greatness in the dance department. And he achieved it. Stunning.

R46 I agree with you about the vocal tics. He was talented, but the tics ruined some of his songs, especially when he did it a lot.

He's lucky there was a lot history revision at the time of his death and afterwards. He was considered a joke and freak for quite some time by many before all of that.

Michael was merely the vocals on "Off The Wall" and "Killer"; whereas, I was the sound, the feeling, and the reason for the legacy of it all -

Unlike others here, I enjoyed his vocal tics. Teddy Riley really got to the heart of what made Jackson's sound so unique.

“Melody is king; do not write your lyrics first. Write your melody and get everything out of that melody to make it do what you want it do. Then write your lyrics on top of it.”

The video below demonstrates Jackson creating the melody and falling into the rhythm. When I listen to music today, I'm more drawn to the melody and emotion than I am the lyrics and I'm 100% sure it's because I listened to Jackson's music obsessively when I was young.

My two favorite performances of Michael Jackson are "Got To Be There" when he was a kid and "She's Out of My Life" later on. These were sung and communicated without all the clicking, and vocal ticks he later incorporated into his songs. He became more showy, but less of a singer.

R39: The date of the Madison Square Garden performance in OP's link was September 10, 2001: does that date resonate with you? The "monster" as you call him, paid for hotel accommodations, food, and transportation for the legions of his fans and others who were trapped in New York City the next day due to attack on our city. No doubt there were those in the audience who themselves perished or lost loved ones the next morning, and Michael Jackson in concert was their last bit of happiness before the horror which lay ahead.

Think about it.

And no, Michael Jackson was not overrated, he was a gifted singer, dancer and actor the likes of whom we may never see again in our lifetime.

For me two biggest pop artists of all time are Michael and Madonna. Back in the 80s, I always preferred Michael to M and they were HUGE at that time. However, when Michael became a shadow of his former self in the 90s, Madonna continued to reinvent herself with new looks, new sounds, and she was willing to take risks. I wish they had done a duet

[quote]Do I think he is the greatest pop genius who ever lived - not really.

Honestly, Prince and Madonna had much better songs/videos than him.

Never understood the appeal.

Here was a child prodigy who never slowed down nor fell off the radar...he just kept on trucking along into adulthood growing and evolving. He never stopped evolving, musically. He was hugely ambitious and always pushed the boundaries of what had been done before in music, dance, and film. And the world was RIVETED for many, many years. Yes, he ended up too sick inside to keep producing work after a certain era. But that era was fucking electric.

If the King of Pop plaudit feels overdone or OTT to you, it is most likely an illusion based on the fact that there is so much negative weird stuff balancing out the massively shocking, unusual and rare gifts he embodied in his lifetime. And now we have the freedom, now that he's gone, to really explore all the weird shit and ponder some pretty dark and sad theories.

He was not overrated, he was an amazing performer.

[quote]Video below showing what a great showman he was. Is there one artist today who actually does complicated, carefully choreographed moves like this while performing? Of course not.

I agree, R44...and that video was amazing. I love his style of dance-it is much more sophisticated than what gets pumped out today.

He was underrated, actually. All of the tabloid stories have overshadowed how great he was. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be born in this newer generation and only know MJ through these outrageous stories we are left with. Before all of that, he was the greatest entertainer the world has ever seen, and everybody agreed on that. He was loved by all, in every part of the universe. As time goes by, that is being forgotten, and his memory becomes more about the crazy personal life and less about the dynamic entertainer that he was. It’s sad.

Did he or didn’t he sleep with n molest young boys or is it gonna be an unsolved mystery?

It was a lot of PR and clever business decisions. He wasn't a bad singer as a kid, but he definitely wasn't exceptional or a singer of note. He probably knew the right people and he was willing to do what it takes to be a pop phenomenon.

Quincy Jones produced some great music for him at the time, but most was clever promotion.

R44 there is a lot of walking in that video. MJ was born in 58 and I would say his artistic glory was 1970 1988. In the video at r44 none of the moves are new and the athleticism is gone. Also the claim only MJ could choreograph an entire show is ridiculous. Many artists paid attention to their movements carefully all the way through live shows. Bowie of course - and before MJ. Grace Jones and Madonna. Bpwie and, I hate to mention in the same sentence, Madonna, evolved their stage movements overtime. MJ did not. Ancient Marlene Dietrich was doing more heroic and well thought out and successful things with her body on stage than a lot of people so its not just about shaking the ass.

For a global superstar and vastly wealthy person, MJ dressed horribly. All the time. In life, on stage. Just awful.

He was an adorable child performer. Then he became a horrifying pedophile. He has an extraordinarily disturbing history. His entire catalogue just needs to be disappeared and forgotten. And he can take his equally misbegotten sister and the rest of the dregs of his creepy family right along with him to the grave.

He was immensely talented and a great performer but eventually there was just too much weird shit to ignore. He became genuinely creepy. And, yes, the whole thing about the moonwalk was tedious. He stole a shit load of dance moves and never credited anyone. Pop’n’Taco alone should have sued.

It wasn't him who had the talent. As a singer you can't compare him to the greats like Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson or Luther Vandross. As a kid, Frankie Lymon was a way better singer. And as a performer he was just OK. He learned some dance moves, but that's it. The rest was good songs, good producers and the right promotion.

I always wonder whether his pedo stuff helped him become a pop icon. God knows this industry is full of kiddie fuckers. The forces that be just pushed him to become this pop sensation.

He was a pedophile.

His voice went to absolute shit in the 80s after the nose jobs. He lost all the power in his voice that he had as a child in the Jackson 5. Compare the Michael who sang "Ain't no Sunshine" to the one who sang "Smooth Criminal" and it is like night and day. He started all the ad libs, yelps, vocal hiccups, mumble singing, flashy choreography, and beatboxing to disguise the loss of power and resonance in his voice. Once he got older and sick and tired of doing the same dances, he got vocal lessons and tried to repair his voice. He did manage to surprise a few critics with the long note he held on "You are not Alone", and the powerful belts on "Earth Song" from the History album, and the smooth harmonies on "Butterflies" from the Invincible album.

He wasn't that great.

What r31, r43 and r48 said.

A couple of years ago, a guy who worked here in flyover country as a stage crew member/roadie in the late 60s early 70s told me that he worked Summerfest in Milwaukee.

The opening act started to rehearse while they were setting up the stage in midday (grounds were closed) for the evening performance. A kid stated dancing, singing and playing to rows of empty bleacher seats, pretending an audience was out there.

He said something happened that never happened before- usually the crew ignored rehearsals. Not this time. He said all the stage crew stopped to watch this kid. The kid, of course, Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5.

This was BEFORE the Jackson 5's first hit record.

He said he never before saw talent at that level, and he never was to see it again. He added, "And I've seen all the greats - up close."

His story made me wistful, thinking of how it all ended.

During his "Billie Jean" performance at Motown 25 and posted above, I was bartending. When his performance was on the bar TV, EVERYBODY, whether bending their elbow at a barstool or playing pool, watched in silence.

I believe Michael Jackson violated children The evidence is too much to ignore. I'm a realist who knows human beings engage in all spectrums of behavior; it's a matter of degree to what extent.

But anybody who would argue that Michael Jackson was overrated as a talent isn't to be taken seriously.

He and Cosby went the same way. How different and yet how the same their places in entertainment history. Two of the most well known, successful black male icons of the era. One an accused rapist and one an accused pedo. Both legacies compromised, rewritten, forever changed.

R47 I forgot to add what incredible, natural grace and dance ability he had. To say nothing of his onscreen charisma. He wasn't overrated, he was greatly underrated in my opinion.

Many people don't realize how difficult it is for children to be so accurate tonally and dynamically as he was, particularly while making it look so natural and unrehearsed. And to do this while dancing along in such a graceful and fluid fashion. It usually means, colloquially, that they have the "music in them", an inner agility and coordination where they have a talent for keeping time and remembering sequences (like music patterns and dance choreography).

When children can sing in-tune at a very, young age, let alone actually be able to handle dynamics with sophisticated nuance, it usually means they have a preternaturally advanced ability to engage in abstract thought, to create an inner primer for the language of music (and like Math, it is a language where notations represent something else) and poetic perspective where they understand the romance of musical dynamics.

As I said in R47, I'm angry at the choices in his personal life for the sake of both the potential victims (firstly and mostly) and for humanity in general, for the full enjoyment of his talent that he denied us because of his weird and suspicious behavior with kids. I know he was messed-up but he should have gotten help before he spiraled into oblivion.

Excuse me.... YES.

R48 Music should be good enough not to have to depend on the kind of antics you cherish. Was it MJ who turned videos into aerobics class displays? That was part of the end of music.

MJ was an ACCUSED pedo who paid out millions. R76 Cosby is a CONVICTED rapist.

Wondering Michael sucked young boys’ dicks or the other way around, his personal life was creepy as fuck. I think he was sick and all fucked up in the head

At the end yes. But they could’ve sold out 100s of stadiums around the world for that final tour. What other pedophile can pull that off? Besides Trump.

[quote]But anybody who would argue that Michael Jackson was overrated as a talent isn't to be taken seriously.

Obviously the PR to sell him worked on enough easily impressible people to make a star out of him. Not too difficult to do in a country that made stars out of people like CardiB, Trump, Honey BoBo and the Kardashians.

Michael and Madonna cashed in big on being smart enough to know people still loved great disco, they'd just been denied it for a few years. Donna Summer didn't get an 80 million dollar fortune (same size as Whitney's and Aretha's) because people didn't love her music.

.Hard to forgive him for "We Are the World". Pure vomit.

[quoite]Obviously the PR to sell him worked on enough easily impressible people to make a star out of him. Not too difficult to do in a country that made stars out of people like CardiB, Trump, Honey BoBo and the Kardashians.

You're so fucking stupid.

Tatum O'Neal and Brooke Shields were his "girlfriends." Debbie Rowe, a big-boned wench who was his plastic surgeon's assistant was his "wife." Everything he did to try and make himself look like he liked girls did exactly the opposite.

R87 don’t forget about me!

Extremely talented.

"PR" success?! Come ON. He was immensely talented and not remotely overrated. You can be infuriated over his later disturbing behavior as an adult but you can deny the raw talent of this child. It's a shame so many of his problems were clearly tied to abuse he'd suffered himself. That's what makes all of it so hard.

R90 "...can [not] deny..."

The more important question is: was he molested when he was a child/teenager?

"It's a shame so many of his problems were clearly tied to abuse he'd suffered himself."

I don't think his insanity stemmed mostly from "abuse." I think it was the opposite. From a very early age he was a star, making loads of money, being catered to in every way. His defenders would say his obsession with children (boys, really) and his desire to remain a child himself (he said "I AM Peter Pan") stemmed from an attempt to recreate "the childhood he never had." Michael Jackson's whole LIFE was childhood. He was like a youngster who could do whatever he wanted and have whatever he wanted. He enjoyed the freedom of childhood his whole life. He wasn't warped from abuse, he was having anything he wanted practically his entire life.

This level of natural born talent is what I see in the Hanson brothers, similar to The Jacksons; it can't be trained or faked but the natural talent can be polished and honed more effectively over time if you work on it. I really do think this kind of extreme level talent is something you're only born with, that your family has some genetic pre-disposition for and whether or not you create anything for the public with that, depends upon your commitment to draw out your gift to its fullest potential.

I sincerely think Taylor Hanson has what Michael Jackson had, an innate sort of pulse of music and inner understanding of sound that's just there and then, he trained himself (and Isaac and Zac did, too) to do something more with it, materialize it as performance.

R93 Abused children who grow up to be adults no one ever says "no" to is a ticking time bomb.

The fact that Michael Jackson was a child rapist means I can no longer enjoy his music.

R93 Dude. The guy had no childhood. It fucked him the fuck up. He is on tape talking wistfully of playing strip clubs at 2 am as a very young boy. And how it warped his sense of love, sex and women. He has written and has spoken with tears in his eyes and throat, of looking at playgrounds where he saw other kids his own age playing, and feeling heartsick that he couldn't play. He had to practice, or go record in a studio. He had no chance to develop along normal healthy lines.

And that's not including the corporal punishment papa Joe doled out if a bum note was hit or a step was out of time.

Doesn’t excuse him abusing children. STFU with this nonsense.

He didn't abuse anyone.

The accusers later admitted Michael never molested them and that their parents filed criminal complaints so they could extort Michael.

No actual pedophile would admit to sleeping in the same bed as children. Michael didn't have a perverted interest in children, it was a weird stunted development issue/fascination with living out his own childhood.

"Michael didn't have a perverted interest in children."

You are out of your mind. He took boys into his bedroom and into his bed and closed and locked the door that had an alarm on it to alert him of anyone approaching. And he tried to pass it off as "charming" and "sweet" when it was by any definition deviant behavior. He admitted it because he thought he could get away with it by saying it was all perfectly innocent and that it was just his love of children that compelled him to take them to bed with him. And he did convince cuckoo fans like you that it was all sweet, innocent fun. But NO man takes children to bed without wanting to do more than cuddle with them. Michael Jackson was perverted, a sick freak. But he always had his delusional supporters, like you.

Beat It is my jam, hunty!

R99 stop living a fantasy world, child

R99. You are totally insane. Jackson was a filthy, life-destroying paedophile predator and everyone knows it.

If he hadn't been then he would have gone to court and cleared his name and it would have been an isolated incident. Instead the paedophilia was repeated over and over and over and perpetrated on a multitude of little boys - victims whose life Jackson destroyed.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

^^^^^^ “Michael Jackson paid £134 million in payoffs to stop up to 20 sex abuse victims speaking out, say lawyers.”

No innocent man pays out millions to keep somebody's mouth shut.

Extremely talented but a very disturbed human being . Definitely had body dysmorphia .. Hence the extreme plastic surgery and obsession with his nose . Would not be surprised if he really was a pedophile.

Michael Jackson likely raped boys. Unconscionable to support anyone under that guise

He deserved his success, but I think he is considered a musical genius, when that would be Quincy Jones.

Saw Thriller on IMAX just recently. His talent was so huge, that you won't even think about the allegations while you're watching it. Perhaps him looking so different later in life makes it easier for people to separate the artist from the man he would later become.

Exactly R106. Exactly...

[quote]The accusers later admitted Michael never molested them and that their parents filed criminal complaints so they could extort Michael.

Lol no. Jordan Chandler was paid $15m by Jackson. Fifteen million dollars. Not from an insurance company, not from some shell corp, but directly from Jackson who signed the settlement himself.

But hey, you’re a great example of the kind of brainwashed, cultish thinking evinced by delusional Jackson fans, so keep at it.

He was kind of a later day, high-tech black version of Al Jolson. But while Jolson was a jerk who turned on water faucets to drown out hearing others getting applause, Michael Jackson behaved very suspiciously by hanging out and sleeping in close (how close?) vicinity of young kids. Jolson was huge -- big Broadway star, recording artist, first sound film "The Jazz Singer". Now, practically unknown outside of trivia contest winners, lovers of old Broadway, and folks over middle age. A big oldies station in NY no longer plays 50s music, doesn't play that much of 60s either. As time marches by the 70s, 80s, etc. will be taken off the playlist unless someone enlightened widens the scope of the great musical past.

R114 WTF is this shit?!

He was very talented and not overrated as an entertainer. However as an adult he has Quincy Jones to thank. He probably would have faded into obscurity or become a joke musically like his sister if it wasn't for QJ. As it was he became a joke for other reasons.

R115 You've never heard that song or watched Free Willy?

I am just surprised how underwhelming his Greatest Hits collections are. A couple of (played out) classics but most of it is gloppy -- see that "Childhood" song above, ugh. He lost the plot rather quickly actually and didn't have much of a catalogue ultimately. But when he was good, he was great.

I just looked up Michael's greatest hits collections, and there is one All Music Guide says is practically perfect, 2005's The Essential Michael Jackson. "Dancing Machine" is missing, but it has "Shake Your Body" and "Can You Feel It." What do the Michaelphiles think?

R44 you do realize he’s lip syncing in that video, right?

Brooke Shields actually admits, in this video, that Michael asked her to be his beard. Wow.

[quote]He was immensely talented

He was an OK singer and he could dance a bit.

He needed lots of spectacle around him on stage. The rest was clever promotion and a record company that was willing to pay for exceptional talent, buying songs, producers and musician to make the phenomenon happen.

The fact that it was mostly hysteria and out of control screaming fans that made him a star clearly proves that is wasn't his talent what got him there.

He was no Whitney Houston, no Aretha, no Sam Cooke, no Stevie, no Ray Charles.

Michael Jackson was showbusiness but not talent.

"Brooke Shields actually admits, in this video, that Michael asked her to be his beard. Wow."

Hid did that eventually, when he realized that it would be a good PR move to be seen with a "girlfriend." But she pursued him first. He was maybe the most popular entertainer in the world at the time and she obviously thought it was be a good thing for her career to be associated with him. She called him and begged him to take her to the Grammys with him. He wanted her to lay off but didn't have the balls to tell her to get lost. He asked his sister LaToya to tell her he wasn't interested but she told him it was his problem. All that is from LaToya's memoir. He caved in and took her as his date...along with the child star Emmauel Lewis. They looked ridiculous; Jackson insisted on carrying Lewis in his arms and Shields looked like an incongruous appendage. At one point she exclaimed "They're making fun of us!" Jackson came to realize that having a "girlfriend" might improve his image and make him seem less weird (it didn't), so he and Shields would be out publicly together, putting on a show of affection, putting obviously staged smooches on each other's cheeks, but never on the lips. After the sexual allegations started heating up Shields distanced herself from him and refused to talk about him, although previously when asked about him she'd always say "I love him dearly." Although she hadn't had anything to do with him for years she showed up for a prominent spot on his memorial service. I think it's safe to say that Michael Jackson and Brooke Shields used each other for their own gain; I doubt that there was ever any genuine feeling between the two of them.

[quote] I don't consider any of his songs pop standards in the way I would John Lennon's Imagine or Aretha Franklin's "Respect."

I would say if your songs are covered, especially by artists in an entirely different genre, then they can officially be classified as standards. I'd say every single cut on the Thriller album are milestones of their genres and have been covered or sampled endlessly by diverse artists.

[quote] He was no Whitney Houston, no Aretha, no Sam Cooke, no Stevie, no Ray Charles.

I would say he was leagues above all of them when you consider his talent and cultural impact.

R114 That's not one of his best songs but History as a whole was a great album. Every track was unique.

R124, nobody talks about him as a singer. It wasn't his talent that propelled his career.

You're totally delusional.

Especially DS where he fantasizes about shooting and killing Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Snedden who was onto Jacko raping young boys.

The song opens with a baby crying and ends with a gun shot as Jacko repeats, "He must be stopped," multiple times.

Okay. So Michael wrote a demo titled "Hanson" which later became "I Like The Way You Love Me”. Yes, it was for that Hanson. In 1999. See R94 for a reference.

Yup. 1999.

But maybe he was just encouraging child musicians who admired him, kids he thought were gifted? Maybe it was for them to sing, not his personally writing it TO them? Maybe that could have been argued but for the lyrics, which I'm assuming were his own. Cryptic. To say the least.

Everywhere you look around Micheal, something feels off and it's not just his weird style and cosmetic surgery obsessions. How many things can be a coincidence? I know his hardcore fans don't want to believe it but the truth is staring us right in the face.

R128

Jesus that’s creepy r128.

R130 Yup. Read the lyrics at R129.

He was extremely masculine!!!

The gushing comments under the vid. They have no clue. People are just oblivious and they refuse to believe anything but what they want to believe. When you understand the context, it makes your stomach turn.

I just can't listen to his stuff. I can't. This is honestly the first time in a while that I have, usually I'll flip past it when it comes on. Even though I heard him everywhere when I was a kid and I do think he was very talented, the connection just isn't there anymore, now that I know. The same thing happens to me when I look at fine art, no matter how well done it is, where I know the subjects were exploited. I can't separate the art from the artist. The work loses any previous value it had to me once I know.

[quote][R44] you do realize he’s lip syncing in that video, right?

W-wait a second!

*gasps*

REALLY?!?

*mind blown!*

I wanted to add that due process is really important. Being a weirdo isn't evidence of any crime. But if you get creepy vibes from someone, it can influence your ability to enjoy their work. I don't know if there is any proof of his committing a crime but by appearances, things didn't look very good. But again, being a creeper weirdo is not a crime in and of itself. Unless we're talking fashion crime.

OVER. RATED.