Amazon HQ2 Announcement

Lots of losing cities, which is why Amazon pushed this story out last week.

I hope it's Newark.

I hope it’s Brooklyn.

I need a job change

If it's Virginia, it'll solidly blue-ify the state. VA is still pretty purple.

VA is pretty blue now r4. Clinton lost so many swing states but she still won VA by a comfortable margin. The demographic switch due to NoVa has happened.

R5, the Virginia House of Delegates is still controlled by Republicans. the state isn't solidly blue. I grew up there, parents are still there. Still not sufficiently blue. Not like Maryland (though MD has a Republican governor no, go figure).

DC area for sure.

I imagine Amazon will work with the VA legislature to get some decent state LGBT protections on the books before breaking ground.

DC area. But Maryland. On the old White Flint Mall site on Rockville Pike.

This will make Virginia solidly blue for decades. It was already blue, but with all those young, progressives moving in to northern VA, it's going to be cobalt going forward.

R9, you know why Maryland is problematic, right? It operates very differently from Virginia when it comes to new businesses coming in. Endless civil-society input, meetings, set-asides, etc. It's awful doing business in Maryland if you're a big company. Agencies do great in Maryland, however.

I was speaking of national politics, local politics are a different beast. If Trump could win freaking Pennsylvania and Michigan but still lose VA by 5 points, it isn't really a swing state anymore when it comes to presidential politics.

Don't assume Amazon is Democratic. If anything they are Libertarian.

That area is the new NYC with DC overtaking Manhattan as the main power hub of the US. And if Amazon moves its headquarters there, NYC will lose even more power. At least they'll still have Broadway.

R12, I'm from where Cheney lives. I still fear Virgina will backslide. And who made the focus presidential politics?

The state legislature draws district lines. It's critical it become solidly blue. No other state is as close to becoming wholly blue.

R13, the majority of Amazon's Seattle employees are Democrats. Overweight Overwhelmingly. Plus, they hire the young.

R16 they have huge presences in Austin and other locations as well. And where are you getting your statistics that they're majority Democrat and overweight?

Don't reframe it, R17. We're talking their headquarters staff. Not, e.g., Austin staff. I'll pull the article about their being Dems.

It's gotta be Virginia.

Pittsburgh. The city gives away everything to businesses. Low cost of living for workers. Close to Pitt and CMU, noth of which are leaders in AI development. Close to DC.

Oh dear r14. First Amazon is not "moving" their headquarters, the Seattle HQ is staying as is, this is a second HQ they are launching.

Two, New York's economic prominence comes from it being the financial capita of thr globe. Unless the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ decide to leave, that isn't going to change.

NYSE and NASDAQ are all computerized now. Whats in NYC is basically just for show. The NYSE floor used to be several rooms, it's now down to one.

It's Los Angeles, you heard it here first.

They're Dems.

New York and DC. Lol, some people think they're different. Same people, up and down 95 by Acela. Boston to Washington, all the same.

Actually Amazon is pretty much purple. It likes gay marriage and corporate welfare.

The new Tech hubs in San Diego [and Carpentia & San Bernardino] point to the HQ being in the Western coast. Which reminds me, Amazon, Netflix, and Apple are building their Entertainment studios in Los Angeles.

Disney couldn't build in Virgina. They have their NIMBYs.

I guess we'll find out on Thursday.

Everyone was harping on and on about Austin. Could be...

It should really be Pittsburgh... if your main concern is ensuring that an important Swing State turns solidly blue.

Probably Pittsburgh. It makes sense.

Toronto!

They already have a huge datacenter in Northern Virginia.

It will probably be NoVA. Crystal City which is a boring, horror show of 60's and 70's architecture with a highway running through the middle. The positive is so many of those ugly buildings are empty and/or being renovated, it is next to the Airport and has metro stops running through it. And it is just across the river from DC. It is pretty much the perfect location.

I know the haters will come out, but I think Atlanta has a decent chance.. $1B in incentives offered by the city/state, a huge parcel of prime real estate offered to build a mini city, major transportation hub (air, train and trucking), pro-business (16 Fortune 500 HQs including UPS and Delta, North American HQ for MB, Porsche), highly rated universities (Ga Tech, Emory, Morehouse), and an affordable cost of living.

State politics hurt the bid, but Atlanta is not Georgia. Perhaps Amazon wants to help turn the tide here. The city is primarily moderate to liberal, pro LGBT, and a sanctuary city. Also, polls show the gubernatorial race even with Democrat Stacy Abrams possibly becoming the first female governor of the state and the first AA governor in the nation.

R35, the Georgia legislature has proven itself untrustworthy and volatile. Very disappointing.

It's northern VA -- that's now a given. The only question is where in northern VA.

Arlington County would make sense location-wise, but it's as hard to do business there as it is in Montgomery County. Endless permit process requiring numerous studies and hearings.

Fairfax County would be a compromise between lawless Loudon Co. and burdensome Alington Co. in terms of ease of doing business and nearness to DC.

Brick City, baby!

And he will build a bird's nest to watch...

[quote]you know why Maryland is problematic, right? It operates very differently from Virginia when it comes to new businesses coming in.

If things change politically, you know this will solidify Virginia becoming like Maryland (and Seattle). Bezos should start planning HQ3.

[quote]you know why Maryland is problematic, right? It operates very differently from Virginia when it comes to new businesses coming in.

I don't know what this means as I'm unfamiliar with the difference, but what I do know is that a lot of "hipster" types who have businesses in Brooklyn are moving to Baltimore. It's apparently the new go-to for artists/artisnal types.

artisanal*

Chicago has more/most of what they need at the lowest costs. That location at the 78 is perfect.

Illinois as a place for a company to move to? That’s funny.

Exactly, R41. That's the cycle.

If Chicago was truly a contender would Rahm Emanuel have run for another mayoral term?

R42, it's explained right there in the rest of R11.

R48, I 'm such a fool. I actually stopped reading there.

It's between Los Angeles, Denver, and Northern Virginia.

Brooklyn is too expensive. I mean sure, the asshole could pay for it with what he finds between his couch cushions, but he won't do it.

I do think the frequency of Hurricanes will make many big companies move West. If Florence proves to be too devastating, Amazon won't go near the East coast. Then it would be between Denver, Austin, and Los Angeles.

Pittsburgh’s location makes it devoid of the threat of any natural disasters or extreme weather... making it the best choice.

LA? I don't think we have space

It will be Reston, Virginia. Right next to Dulles and it’s the kind of cold, dystopian corporate suburb Amazon would build itself if it could.

The Northern Virginia site it out by Dulles airport. Half of it is in Loudoun County and half of it is Fairfax, County. It is not that far from Trump's golf course. (I think there's another site in Arlington.)

The roads here are congested enough as it is. This area has grown way too fast. I think Google and Apple are looking here too. What a mess.

R55, Reston is pretty nice. They've tried to grow denser. Everyone likes the Town Center.

McLean in the Tysons Corner area. Build higher. Beautiful homes.

This site isn't exactly Reston. More, Herndon. Reston is close though.

What city will the tech talent want to move to?

A lot of tech people are not white and/or white liberals, so Amazon better keep that in mind when choosing. No intelligent, open-minded person wants to move to a city that is red and has nothing remotely interesting going on in it. People didn't educate themselves just to be around redneck trash.

As Amazon dances through courtship rituals with the 20 cities hoping to host its second headquarters, the company is also charging ahead on a slate of other real estate projects.

This week, the e-commerce giant announced a significant expansion of its offices in Boston and Vancouver, British Columbia, planning for a total of 5,000 new tech jobs. Earlier in April, it said it would open its fourth fulfillment center in Nevada, bringing more than 1,000 jobs to North Las Vegas. In March, it revealed plans to build its first such facility in Missouri. In Boston, Amazon confirmed on Tuesday that it would move into 430,000 square feet in WS Development’s Seaport project, bringing 2,000 jobs in machine learning, speech science, cloud computing and robotics engineering. That will double its technology work force in the metropolitan area.

I don't know why people are trying to push the idea of LA (well other than they are based in LA), why on earth do you think Amazon would want their second headquarters on the west coast? They already have a west coast headquarters, there is a reason Amazon only put one west coast city on the list of 20 while the east coast is lined with possibilities. It makes sense from them to expand.

R53, Pittsburgh just git several inches if rain and has declared a state if emergency. The place is under water.

I have friends who recently moved to Northern Virginia and they love it. They bought a beautiful property on the water. I'm thinking of moving there myself. Beautiful areas, close to DC, NYC, Philly, Rehoboth Beach. What's not to like? The gay scene is vibrant with tons of beautiful and smart men.

I think we should all move there and make it the new gay mecca.

DC has already "happened", it's been a gay mecca r65.

Though I think Northern Virginia itself is lame, outside of a few sections, it is just bland suburbia.

Guessing DC area so they can manipulate govt better

Northern Virginia is outrageously expensive in terms of housing and cost of living.

No way they can attract the young tech talent they are looking for at those prices.

These are high paying jobs r68, Northern Virginia is cheaper than the Bay Area where a lot of these people would be comparing offers from.

In general you are speaking about a group of people that want to be in a major urban environment, they could put it up in say Omaha with cheap housing but none of these workers would want to go there.

Pittsburgh is a far better and more affordable option.

Affordable, yes, r70. Far better option, no. Pittsburgh sucks.

Newark

It won't be NY, too expensive (taxes, cost of living). It'll be Newark: less expensive than NY for the aforementioned reasons; yet it'll draw the international talent from NY's saturated workforce. It will also draw the international technical talent from the Raleigh/Durham area, which is known as the 'Silicon Valley' of the East Coast. The East Coast has the highest concentration of women minorities in senior-executive management, something HQ1 lacks.

Additionally, Newark is an international hub; it is perfectly/centrally located for more conveniently reaching (air travel) its worldwide operations. This, coupled with the fact that HQ1 is a quick, cozy flight away in a G5/6, as is the UK/EU, S. Asia. (E. Asia is also a quick, cozy flight away from HQ1.)

When the announcement for an HQ2 was originally announced, I'd thought, without a doubt, it would be Toronto, for the same reasons (above), particularly since it has no *DACA issues, no *Immigration Reform issues, and no DJT.

Every home in McLean VA is well over a million dollars. No way are they building there.

Northern Virginia-D.C.? Gee, what a radical, outside-the-box, looking-toward-the-22nd-Century idea, Jeff Bozos.

R74, I don't get it. Where should it go? Where's edgy enough for you?

I make fun of Reston VA since I live in DC, but when I go there I always think, this is pretty nice, no wonder people want to live here. Still I don't think there is enough public transport there for the Amazon HQ. And, I think they will pick a spot closer in to DC. Like Arlington/Crystal City.

The entire Amazon board of directors is joining Bezos in DC this Thursday. Duh.

It's just over 1 year since the HQ2 announcement. They said it would take at least a year and that the announcement would be made in 2018.

Wonder if Bezos is moving in on DC just to irritate Dump, ha!

Actually, now that I think about it, I could see it being DC itself. Somehow I think Amazon would put up with the red tape.

Or not - it can be very difficult to do anything in DC and you know there'll be endless hearings before they can break ground - LOTS of handwringing and interference by both Southeast community activist types who want "community outreach" programs and set-asides, and Northwest busybody fraus who'll NIMBY endlessly even though the new development won't be anywhere near them. Environmental studies, diversity initiatives, zoning issues, local procurement requirements, etc. etc. etc. It'll take over a year before they're allowed to break ground on new structures.

And then there'll be the stupid historical preservation demands for any little old liquor storefront or just piece-of-crap mediocre 19th century boarding house that'd otherwise be allowed to fall apart. Fuck. Every little piece of old structures will have to be integrated into otherwise beautiful LEED-certified glass-and-steel buildings. I fucking HATE that. Like the front lower left corner suddenly pops out from the sleek steel surface to show some crappy old storefront. GROSS.

They don't do that in Virginia. Well, most of Virginia. Alexandria, Fairfax City, Falls Church, and Arlington can be very fussy about shit like that, too, but they won't have the endless hearings, nor will they have negotiated diversity initiative requirements since Northern Virginia is mostly Caucasian and Asian.

This will be on a loop:

I don't know if they are really going to make an announcement Thursday, but that the board is touring DC does seem to indicate it is a done deal.

I hope it's good for the DC community, not the dickhead politicians.

Amazon has already been talking to local governments. Whatever their final 3 are - the local government stuff has been pretty much agreed upon - behind closed doors.

[quote] the local government stuff has been pretty much agreed upon - behind closed doors.

I'm sure it involves Bezos choosing which one gave him the best BJ.

If Amazon builds in DC, it'll be even more like the Capital in The Hunger Games. Just a glittering city with so much fucking money.

I kind of hope they don't choose DC. It seems very crowded these days.

It'll be where jobs are least needed and execs desire to live

There is a Metro stop at Reston now and another is planned in Loudoun County. For the Dulles location, Bezos is going to have to kick in for transportation improvements. But like I said above, a lot of the big companies are also looking at coming there. Apple and Google. Discovery (tv) just moved their headquarters here too. If they are close to the airport - which almost all these locations are - there will be FAA height restrictions for their buildings.

None of this is why I moved here. I liked the slowed down life, beautiful farms, and wineries nearby. Homes are slightly lower than Fairfax County. The more west of the county you go, the lower the price. The Redskin headquarters is right in the middle of it all. I think Loudoun County has the highest median income in the country.

Sigh. I'd just as soon none of them come.

Loudon is too far removed from DC. No one wants to live in Logan's Circle and commute to Loudon. Logan Circle to Ashburn? Kids at Amazon want to live in DC proper. They won't even want to move to Arlington

I don't think they're moving anywhere with greenfield development.

Trump golfs at his course in Loudoun all the time. But I agree it's a ways out. People drive to Dulles airport. This site is right across from the airport.

It won't be Chicago, Cleveland or any place too cold.

Is Charlottesville a good place to live?

Yes R93 is you are a white nationalist or Alt Right. (JK)

R93, it's rather isolated. It's a nice progressive town (well, progressive for that part of VA), but it's small and isolated. Like Ithaca somewhat.

R83:

"Dickhead politicians" is redundant.

[quote]. What's not to like?

The hurricanes that will become stronger and more frequent ??

It's not just the fear of a hurricane, but the transportation infrastructure that gets disrupted for days after a hurricane. Katrina pretty much killed the film industry in Louisianan. Amazon will not want to deal with the delays and crazyness that will surely come up if they settle in a East coast state. They either go North (blizzards and snow) or more a bit more inland.

[quote]Loudoun County

That second "u" kills me. Were they trying to be extra fancy?

Loudoun County is named after John Campbell, who was the fourth earl of Loudoun and a Scottish nobleman. Campbell, at the time, was the titular governor of Virginia, from 1756 to 1758, and a former commander in chief of the British armed forces in Virginia.

Lord Loudoun was a real piece of work. A total incompetent but we got stuck with the name anyway.

Austin ain't happening. It's going to be a city on the east coast.

There is a very prominent building just outside Chinatown in DC that is the process of being rezoned and sold

Gary Indiana would be pretty edgy.

DC

Yes, everyone knows that Jeff Bezo has a house in DC, that is old news.

^^ Doesn't understand the elementary theory of Cause and Effect -

He also has a private plane... so?

My BF works for Amazon. I can't reveal the winning location, but I will say all of you are wrong.

Columbus, eh r108?

R108, if it's Maryland, that counts as DC, ok?

I believe r105 knows the site Amazon picked as much as believe John Travolta and Kelly Preston's marriage.

I know there's 20 cities vying for the top spot but realistically, what do we have? Transportation is key to this beast, Amazon, so i would reckon N VA/DC, Philly, Pitts, Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Boston, and Dallas, yes?

Pittsburgh's transportation is lacking when compared to the others and I don't think Detroit is on the list.

[quote] Pittsburgh. The city gives away everything to businesses. Low cost of living for workers. Close to Pitt and CMU, both of which are leaders in AI development. Close to DC.

No, they won't get it. Pittsburgh has many pluses, but their transit system is one of the worst in the country, and there is no real space open (in any desirable areas) that would be both close to resources in Oakland (which is already crowded to the gills as it is) and yet still allow for a big campus.

Had they at any time in the last 50 years built the fucking subway/transit line they've talked about building through Oakland, they might have gotten it, but Pittsburgh never does anything until 20 years after everywhere else. Even now, even with the hipsters and young folks in charge.

It's between Denver and Los Angeles.

R108 might be truthful. Why doubt him?

Atlanta, Georgia

Austin, Texas

Boston/East Boston, Massachusetts

Chicago, Illinois

Columbus, Ohio

Dallas, Texas

Denver Colorado

Indianapolis, Indiana

Los Angeles, California

Miami, Florida

Montgomery County, Maryland

Nashville, Tennessee

Newark, New Jersey

New York City, New York

Northern Virginia (Loudoun County, Virginia and Fairfax County, Virginia

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Raleigh, North Carolina

Toronto, Ontario

Washington, D.C.

Flint, Michigan

Gary, Indiana

Youngstown, Ohio

Cooter's Holler, Kentucky

Amazon already has a big presence in Metro DC. There is no reason to conflate joining the DC chamber to the HQ decision.

R108 doesn't know shit.

East Coast ....

I hear it's between Pixley and Hooterville.

[R108], if it's Maryland, that counts as DC, ok?

No, it's, different.

Someone already predicted Maryland before R108 so it's not Maryland either.

Ha! It's BOSTON!

Boston's proposal. It is a very effective and well crafted pitch.

So obviously Bezos did not make any announcement at the event, he just reaffirmed they were announcing a decision by the end of the year.

Just one article making a prediction. From today.

Stupid fucking analysis. As though Jeff Bezos is not account to stakeholders and a board of directors who would question him if it looked like he was planning on opening a second headquarters for pure vanity's sake.

Hi Lord Nerd plays a game of tag and y'all play along. Who cares where HQ2 lands. It won't change anything at all! Bezos is an exalted post master general. He's doing the post office work (in an efficient manner) without the union bullshit. That's all.

Remember when Amazon used to just sell books? Seems so quaint now.

[quote]Who cares where HQ2 lands. It won't change anything at all!

Yes, whoever lands a headquarters of the world's second most valuable company won't even notice it!

Please go visit Seattle and ask them if they happened to notice Amazon. Nearly 1 in 5 of the office space in Seattle is owned by Amazon. If Amazon keeps being successful, whichever city lands Amazon will most definitely be changed by it.

"HQ2" - Brilliant Marketing, absolutely Brilliant -

Chicago. The only city that has been visited twice.

Chicago needs it more than DC

From the Times today. Crystal City, Arlington County, just across Key Bridge is Georgetown.

Betters are giving Northern VA the best odds.

Virginia: weak protections for LGBT people.

Arlington County, Virginia: great protections.

Clever, Amazon.

DLers called it.

Ack.

[quote]Betters are giving Northern VA the best odds.

Oh Dear! I think we need better bettors.

Virginia has finally become pretty blue, but its legislature remains red. Maybe this will tip things?

Georgetown is not across the river from Crystal City. Rosslyn, another neighborhood in Arlington, is.

R142, thanks for that correction. It's going to be great when they come - well, politically. Fucking eliminate the GOP from the state in 5-10 years with a permanent trifecta.

Amazon rarely does what's expected. I wouldn't be surprised if they were behind the Northern Virginia stories, just to throw everyone off the trail.

R144, I was thinking that, because it's the consensus, it might very well be wrong....

In any case, if it's true, that's a win for Democrats... Virginia could become as Democratic as Maryland (though they have a GOP governor right now, whos "bipartisan" — ugh).

My bet is that everyone will think it's going to be Virginia, but it will end up being Toronto.

I really hope they do the right thing and choose Newark. Though I guess it's questionable whether any of the current residents will be helped by such a move in the long term.

So how long is Amazon going to drag this on for?

R146- Toronto would be a great way to stick it to Trump.

I think going into Newark invites unique civil-society-related problems. Local citizens' groups would likely make a plethora of demands on Amazon, related to things like "outreach," educational opportunities, and diversity measures for contract awards. It'll be tough going, and the Times will cover every tiny thing, since it's in their backyard.

It'd be the same for Chicago, too. See, for example, the nightmare of getting the Obama presidential library built, or George Lucas's failed attempt at building his museum of narrative art in Chicago. Civic groups litigated the issue enough to drive him to build it in LA.

When locals get very ... granular ... in their demands and surveillance of businesses (e.g., "What kind of set-asides are you making for low-income seniors in the neighborhoods impacted by your 15th building? What about the destruction of the foundation of that 19th-century meeting house — can't you integrate it into the design?"), it makes doing business really cumbersome. There's almost too much civic engagement (protests, meetings, council hearings, impact report requirements, historical preservation guidelines) in those cities. First-tier cities like NYC can make those demands and maybe get away with it, however.

R148, announcement by year's end. Thus the flurry of new articles about it.

The article is pretty spot on. Crystal City is ripe for development. What a soul crushing place it is. But, lots of vacancy, one developer to work with and near public transport and next to DCA. It really couldn't do better at checking boxes

The Mayor of Pittsburgh is willing to do whatever it takes to get Amazon to chose Pittsbugh. He wants it so badly he can taste it.

[quote]The Mayor of Pittsburgh is willing to do whatever it takes to get Amazon to chose Pittsbugh. He wants it so badly he can taste it.

Unless it tastes like Jeff Bezos's cum, it's not likely to happen.

[Quote]Legal weed and universal health care are powerful motivators

FAR more important to Amazon's success: access to a global pool of skilled tech talent. Thanks to Trump's restrictive immigration policies, that's not possible anywhere in the U.S. Toronto doesn't have that problem.

Canada's immigration policies are FAR more restrictive than U.S., R155.

WaPo reports that Amazon is in "advanced" talks about HQ2 being in Northern VA.

Told you.

Wonderful news. Virginia will be blue for real. Trifecta Dem state government coming soon.

Arlington County has great LGBT protections. Soon the entire state will, too.

1 killed, another missing after Amazon building collapse in Baltimore

Finally. Virginia joins contemporary blue America.

Trump could flip PA, Wisconsin and Michigan but he STILL couldn't flip Virginia. Didn't even come that close.

R161, I want the state government trifecta. Eliminate gerrymandering for good. This is about the long term.

Amazon in advanced talks about putting HQ2 in Northern Virginia, those close to process say

[quote] I want the state government trifecta. Eliminate gerrymandering for good.

I don't think you know what gerrymandering means.

No one wants to move to Canada, Toronto fans.

Give it up.

R164, you're a moron.

R164, once the Dems get the trifecta, they'll be able to change the law so the General Assembly (state Senate and House of Delegates) no longer draws Virginia's federal Congressional district lines. They can require the appointment of an independent commission to redraw the districts after the next census.

It's been in the news.

VA gerrymandering by the GOP. Trifecta will eliminate it.

GOP won't allow for an independent commission, insists on drawing the district lines.

Good summary.

R164, do you get it now? Why a trifecta is important to eliminating gerrymandering in Virginia?

[quote] Don't assume Amazon is Democratic. If anything they are Libertarian.

More accurately Amazon is an enormous slave plantation.

We only know that Virginia is where the KKK from Charlottesville beats people up.

I'm thrilled. I hope this somehow reverberates to West Virginia in a decade or so. Maybe everyone will buy weekend homes there and the locals will cash out and move to other states. Or maybe DC's exurban sprawl will go so far as to spread to WV (super commuters).

This is substantive good news for Dems. Virginia's almost complete.

Where's next? Georgia looks promising.

I'll move to Buckhead.

The stories that are coming out about how Amazon treats their workers is really bad. I live in the DMV area but I'm glad this kind of move by Amazon could create more jobs but I hope this is the BLUE DMV. Amazon better come correct.

It's VA, Dallas, or NYC now.

Wouldn't mind Dallas -- shot glass of Democrats in a GOP bucket; it's a move towards purple.

VA would be better, though. Really win it all there, lock it in.

NYC would be a waste and make the city even more hellishly crowded and expensive.

They are not moving to NYC that is a load of crap

On Monday, the Wall Street Journal reported Amazon plans to split its second headquarters evenly between two cities instead of picking one winner. According to the Journal's sources, the rationale behind selecting two cities is to recruit enough technical talent. The two winners have reportedly not yet been decided. Amazon declined to comment to CNN Business.

Arlington and Alexandria VA. They're just teasing this "two cities" nonsense.

Virginia? Really?

They are gonna find technical talent in Virginia?

R182, very much so. The DC area is actually really advanced, actually. It's like the Hunger Games: most of the rest of the country is behind and poor compared to the capital. The top three wealthiest counties surround DC.

R182. Shocking isn’t it? It’s the largest pool of tech talent outside of Silicon Valley.

From 2013, but still interesting.

This is why they're blue now.

You realize by "Virginia" this is just the DC area right r182....? DC being the 6th largest metro area in the country.

You seem be picturing some random southern town.

R108, is it Dallas?

R188 I’d be perplexed if it were anywhere in Texas as Amazon had a very strict LGBTQ rights requirement for any *state* that was under consideration.

I bet they are watching what Virginia does in tomorrow's elections. Arlington and Alexandria are Democrat strongholds.

It's DC and New York per the NYT.

Yeah just read that. LI City and Arlington

Great comment about the two site reveal

[quote]Amazon extracting highly favorable terms, only to halve its promise and expect those same terms, is an exercise of bargaining power that will be familiar to many of the millions of merchants reliant on Amazon’s platform

I have a feeling that when this is all said and done, the winning city or cities will be losers like the cities that bankroll shiny new arenas for sports teams

Oh real estate interests will boom

It’s Crystal City and Queens. 20,000 employees at each

This reminds me of Endicott, NY. IBM was a huge presence there. Real estate was robust, good paying jobs and a whole subset of companies reliant on IBM’s presence.

Once IBM tanked and started closing sites, poor Endicott suffered terribly.

R198, but these are two areas of busting metro regions.

True r199. I just see some parallels.

[quote] It'd be the same for Chicago, too. See, for example, the nightmare of getting the Obama presidential library built, or George Lucas's failed attempt at building his museum of narrative art in Chicago. Civic groups litigated the issue enough to drive him to build it in LA.

I get your point but those are kinda specific examples. There are several big parcels of land in Chicago, including a huge area on the South Side where the US Steel works used to be, several places in the South Loop and on the west side, etc. The issue with both the Lucas library and Obama library is that they want/wanted very specific, historical sites. Especially so for the Lucas library, which wanted waterfront space. (Space I am glad it did not take.)

[quote] The Mayor of Pittsburgh is willing to do whatever it takes to get Amazon to chose Pittsburgh. He wants it so badly he can taste it.

Pittsburgh has SO many things going for it, but the two things it does not are the two things that will kill its chances: a real lack of space and an almost complete lack of decent public transit options.

R194, I agree. Amazon destroyed Seattle. It will bring its cold, conformist, anti-worker "culture" with it wherever it goes.

The D.C. suburbs seem tailor-made for Amazon, so that news doesn't surprise me, but this is a disaster for Queens. It was one of the last parts of NYC that was truly diverse and livable, a throwback to the golden age of the city.

The cities that weren't chosen have all dodged a bullet.

How far are Amazon's likely sites in New York and DC from the nearest Acela station (or at least, how far from Acela's mainline... if push came to shove and Amazon made it a make-or-break requirement, Amazon probably COULD pull off getting a new Acela station added for them if their desired site was near Acela's mainline, but far from an existing station)?

I know that in DC's case, Union station is the southernmost Acela stop... but VRE runs through Potomac Yards (Amazon's likely site in DC/Alexandria) up to Union Station, and I know Virginia has been in talks with Amtrak for years about extending Acela further south (either as HSR, or at least limping the last few miles down to Arlington for transfer-free service). I know that a few years ago, the main impediment was that Acela needs electrified tracks & the catenaries ended at Union Station... but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that VRE itself was either in the process of electrification, or at least it was on the table as a near-term possibility.

At the NYC end... is there an existing direct track connection between LIRR and NEC at Penn Station that would allow an Acela-type train to run along LIRR (electrified, but not necessarily at HSR speed), then continue south from Penn Station as HSR all the way to DC?

If Amazon could pull off the logistics and get NY, DC/Virginia, and Amtrak to cooperate on something like that, they could even do something like buy office space near Philadelphia's Amtrak station, configure it as conference rooms, and use it whenever they need to have a meeting between NY and DC staff (roughly 1.3 hours from both directions).

R203, Crystal City Has a Metro stop. One transfer to Union Station, I think.

One transfer.

Hmmm... just did a bit of quick research. It looks like LIRR and the NEC merge at Sunnyside Yard in Brooklyn & share the same tracks into Penn Station. Presumably, this implies that both LIRR and Amtrak/Acela either have compatible electrification, or that stretch of track somehow implements two completely incompatible electrification systems (maybe catenary for Amtrak, and side-rail for LIRR?)

Bump

WSJ alert: Amazon will announce as soon as tomorrow that it's indeed NYC and VA.

Where will we put all the people?

Amazon will price Queens residents out of Queens.

How long until Long Island is gentrified?

Protest Amazon bringing HQ2 to NYC. Al Sharpton?

I want them all in Virginia, so it'll become even bluer.

Atlantic

New Yorkers, are you pissed?

Essssss-Seeeeeee

New Yorkers are going to protest. Bring on the community meetings.

About 25 years ago, Northern VA protested against Disney, which had covertly bought up some land on which it planned to develop a theme park. I guess an Amazon HQ will bring better jobs.

The value of my co-op in NY just increased.

Won't happen in NYC. It's going to crash and burn. Politically impossible.

Now about Virginia and Wisconsin?

Turn Baraboo Blue!

All in VA would be like a culture bomb in Civilization the game: just totally blue-iffy the state for good.

How about Virginia and Raleigh NC?

Or Miami? Would HQ2 turn Florida blue?

It's official — plus an operations center in Nashville, employing 5,000. MSNBC, can't find a link yet.

Wash Post. It's official. Can you guys get through the paywall?

will the jobs be as high-paying in Nashville as the other 2 cities?

I would rather move to Nashville, I think, for the climate.

Apparently one of the Amazon guys in charge of the search is a Nashville native. Thus, Nashville!

Nashville:The Amazon average salary will be 150K. Can’t figure out why they chose the site where it will be located. Extremely high traffic area., on Broadway, between downtown and mid town.

R227, are you sure they said the Nashville average salary will be $150,000? The only time I've seen that figure if for the average salary of the NYC and VA locations. The Nashville site is a customer service and logistics/operations office.

New York gave $1.85 billion in incentives. VA gave just $891 million. WTF....

R108?

People are PISSED. Both rich cities, Amazon got tons of data from all the cities, etc.

Good news for Dems - the VA part. BLUE BLUE BLUE.

VA governor Northam (D) speaks.

DC people, this is a big deal, right? 25,000, not 50,000 but still.

Cute Derek Thompson of the Atlantic is PISSED. He's on MSNBC today yelling about how wrong this is. They should have gone to somewhere poor, he's saying.

R233 It's a terrible deal because the incentives they were offering were for 50,000 employees but Amazon is only giving them 25,000. Amazon played them both and got them to essentially pay double the incentives. Say DC was willing to pay $50,000 in incentives per employee (made up number) for 50,000 jobs. After Amazon halved that number to 25,000 jobs, DC is now paying $100,000 per employee. Bezos is a snake.

R235, are you sure about that?

I win.

Just curious, any DL’rs work for or previously worked for Amazon? Any insight or opinions on the workplace - salaries, benefits, culture, etc.. There seems to be a lot of conflicting reports about what the company is like to work for. From I gathered, the conflict comes down to the level you’re at. What kind of jobs wil these be in NYC and VA? Pure tech or a mix of say tech, customer service, procurement, operations, etc. as examples?

R228, the 150K is what was on the news. Ernst and Young also announced today that they were moving 600 jobs to Nashville today.

R239, on the news specifically in reference to Nashville? TIA.

I live in Virginia. This pisses me off. I think we just got ripped off.

R238: yes, it was the local news

R238, I’m assuming NYC will hold lots of corporate positions, such as the financial/accounting divisions, tech, ops, PR, etc. I can go on and on, but I won’t, because I’m about to go to bed, and it could literally take hours to chart the business model for a company like Amazon.

Well, you won't have worry about us stinking up the place!

Well it’s already happening in NYC - the moans and groans from politicians, community activists, and local businesses saying “we don’t want Amazon!”

It was featured on the local news tonight, all these moans about “making LIC into just an extension of Manhattan - who is going to be able to afford living here?”; “my business can’t compete with them!”; “why should they get a heliport when the rest of us have to suffer on the 7 train”, and so on.

So far the local NYC Council Members and newly elected Alexandria have come out against it. Yet every subway rider and resident walking the street they interviewed were all smiles and all for it.

Hopefully all these naysayers won’t screw LIC and NYC like they did in Brooklyn a few years ago when Walmart wanted to come to town.

NYC doesn't need it. Come to a purple state.

I think people are upset the city is handing over well over a billion dollars in incentives r245, if Amazon just was deciding to move there it would be a different argument.

R247 - I get that, but if the potential figures are correct, what HQ2 stands to bring to the city and state coffers makes the incentives worth it long term. But they’re not looking at it that way. They (the politicians and community activists) should get this upset over the tax breaks, incentives, and give says the city routinely gives to developers. But they won’t because they’re all in the developers’ pockets. I’m actually waiting for the coming calls to turn this area into housing rather than give it to Amazon. It makes nice sound bites, but the developers will get all the breaks and the developments will bring minimum revenue into the city. It’s all smoke and mirrors folks.

Other cities are sad.

There is a clause in the tax deals that if they don't deliver 25K jobs Amazon has to pay back for something like that...I've heard from people in the IT world that Amazon is a sweatshop. I work for a FAANG company in sales and Amazon doesn't have the best reputation. Cuomo should have negoatiated some sort of deal that if they chose NYC then they should put some back office jobs in Syracuse or Buffalo, cities that really need a jolt.

I don't think LIC will actually happen... Queens residents are pissed.

Did this surprise anyone? Bezos has a house in suburban DC and a NYC hub is expected for a major corporation. These cities were selected because they appeal to Bezos, and the bring little benefit because the incentives offered won't balance out gains in the long run.

I recall a study in Ball State, when a company moved to Muncie IN, (home to Ball State), they offered it all sorts of incentives, and the city of Muncie found it got nothing back. The workers almost universally chose to live (and therefore spend) outside of Muncie (which was cheaper) and Muncie got no taxes. When the incentive period ended, the company moved.

It happens all the time.

They are getting 3 billion dollars in tax breaks. that's what people are upset about. They don't need it!

Choose somewhere else, Amazon.

R251 - I’d be interested to see how many of the protestors at these rallies actually live in Queens, let alone LIC. Everyone I know in Queens (Jackson Heights, Sunnyside, Astoria, and LIC), are really excited about HQ2. They recognize what this means to both LIC and NYC long term. The only hesitation some feel about it, is whether there will be positions in LIC in their fields vs just coding, tech stuff.

Other than the council members, the protestors I’ve seen interviewed come across as the “we know what’s best for you” types which tells my gut, these guys probably aren’t even locals.

R253 - I wrote in the other Amazon thread about how these guys arguing that the billions are being “robbed” from hospitals, transit, education, etc. just makes them look like idiots. The money does not physically exist - it’s the amount of allowable write offs Amazon can use to off set taxes BUT if Amazon doesn’t meet their numbers, their end of the agreement, they will need to pay the off sets back.

The $3 billion in potential write offs results in $30 billion in actual real revenue, not to mention ancillary revenue derived from 25K workers in the market, long term this is a great thing for LIC, for Queens, for NYC. These guys are being foolishly short sighted.

If for some reason, they are successful in stopping HQ2 from coming here, LIC will remain a pit and good luck getting any other company to ever commit on this level in NYC and NYS.

They won't be hiring NYers for high paying jobs. They will be working as janitors and security guards. They will hire H1 B visa holders.

The protests are going to get larger. It's going to be the thing cool "real" New Yorkers are going to start doing. I can see the blocks of food trucks from here.

Bezos lives in Kalorma neighborhood in DC. It's where the Obamas and Kushners (gross) live.

Meanwhile, Virginia is ecstatic

Sounds like they're become a better employer.

Fight HQ2, NYers.

I have family who live in LIC and they are happy to see Amazon move in. Citibank is moving out and there was nothing until Amazon to replace it. So just what are these loud mouthed politicians doing to bring jobs into the area?

Virginia is welcoming Amazon with open arms. New York is another story.

Northern Virginia appears to be all in on HQ2. New York City, meanwhile, is at war.

When the announcement came down on Tuesday, there were sprinkles of concern in Virginia, specifically from unions and critics of public subsidies for large corporations. A joint statement of local unions Local 25, LiUNA Baltimore/Washington Council, CHOICE, and UFCW Local 400P promised to "stand ready to organize, mobilize and fight to ensure that HQ2 creates good jobs for local residents." But, for the most part, the powers-that-be are vocally on board.

In New York, meanwhile, there is vocal opposition, demonstrations planned and fights promised. They called it corporate welfare. Some officials declared they were not elected to “serve as Amazon drones.”

“We’re going to mobilize and protest and claim that democracy is still alive in Queens and in New York City and New York State,” Jimmy Van Bramer, the councilman whose district includes Long Island City, told The New York Times. “It’s unacceptable and we’re going to fight.”

Why the difference in reaction? For one, Virginia, by most accounts, negotiated a better deal, offering far less in incentives, despite the promise of the same number of jobs at the same average salary of $150,000, and securing more for the overall community, from transportation upgrades to affordable housing commitments.

With the approval of the General Assembly, Virginia will provide Amazon $22,000 in workforce cash grants per job created, up to a maximum of $750 million, plus nearly $300 million for infrastructure investments that should benefit more than Amazon alone, and some local cash, and support for a new $1 billion Virginia Tech innovation campus in Alexandria.

“I think the company made a good choice from their point of view, and I think we got a good deal from our point of view,” said state Sen. Adam Ebbin, D, whose district includes Crystal City.

New York’s incentive package could “far exceed $2 billion,” the New York Times reported, including state and city tax breaks that Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said will provide a 9-to-1 return on investment.

And then there’s the matter of communication and process: The New York City Council was apparently kept totally out of the HQ2 talks, while in Virginia, the General Assembly was at least partially integrated into the negotiations through its Major Employment and Investment Commission, a panel on which the executive and legislative branches are represented. Arlington and Alexandria will both review any HQ2 projects, while Cuomo may avoid local input through a New York process called a general project plan.

Ebbin said the deal, based his initial read, covers the key bases to secure community support, and that "seems to be the smart way to go about it." Residents will benefit through improved access to transit. Businesses will benefit as long-vacant Crystal City office space is filled not only by Amazon, but by companies that want to be near Amazon. The state will benefit as HQ2 jobs are expected to pay $150,000 on average, delivering much needed tax revenue to the general fund.

“I think it’s really important as a progressive," the senator said, "to recognize the amount of new jobs and the amount of spinoff jobs that this will bring to the region."

there will be a bunch of hearings just to pretend they are listening to the residents. It will go through. What pissed me off is they don't need 3 billion dollars worth of tax cuts! Stupid cunts.

A blue state doesn't need this. VA is barely blue. Move it all there. Or to another blue-purple state. Colorado.

Most residents don't seem to be unhappy, r264.

Virginians are ecstatic

Amazon is about to discover the hard way that New York is a brutally hard place to do business. It's America's economic capital, and it has a unique, aggressive indifference borne of it. New York knows companies will go there regardless of how many arbitrary obstacles get thrown into their path... so it throws them with an aggressive intensity not seen anywhere else in the US (with the *possible* exception of Chicago).

Let's start with unions. In many respects, the line between "union" and "government bureaucracy" in New York is quite blurry. Unions officially exist to represent workers... but in New York, they also take on aspects of government regulators & gatekeepers, and sometimes act more like medieval guilds protecting their collective turf from outsiders. They often treat "journeyman" level workers in ways that would be considered abusive and shocking if a company did it. In New York, you WILL do things the unions' way, or they'll call in their friends at city hall & make damn sure you can't do it at all. By the same token, if your company manages to out-lawyer city hall, they'll call in THEIR friends in the unions and make sure you don't get away with it.

On the flip side, some companies in New York end up having a very cozy relationship with their unions. Once they get used to paying higher wages, the relationship between HR and New York unions ends up looking like the textbook definition of "regulatory capture" -- HR doesn't always HAVE to be the bad guys, because they can get the unions to apply pressure to workers that they wouldn't *dare* to apply themselves.

New York is also a brutally hard place to do real estate development... partly because the minimum sane amount of building you can do with any given parcel of land PROFOUNDLY exceeds whatever you're officially allowed to do as a matter of right. It's literally impossible to buy a vacant lot (or existing building) in New York, clear it, and build anything that's unambiguously within the clear language of New York zoning law without losing your shirt, because whatever you could officially build as a matter of right will be worth less than half of what you paid to acquire that site in the first place. This gives New York's government ENORMOUS leverage and bargaining power. They have a maze of loopholes, but without close allies inside of city hall... you will never even discover them, let alone be able to take advantage of them (because many of them are extreme edge cases that work like stacking discounts on Black Friday... not necessarily allowed OR prohibited, so one single bureaucrat who's not on board & refuses to sign off can derail the whole thing. Or stop you dead in your tracks after you've already built something with their earlier, tacit approval).

The fact that Amazon went for Long Island City, and not Manhattan, shows that Amazon knew what it would have been up against if it tried to go further into NYC. LIC was at least willing to humor Amazon... New York would have just yawned and had their receptionist tell them to come back when they were ready to do business like a company worthy of their time.

Putting it in a more national perspective... Los Angeles is notorious for eating PEOPLE alive & spitting out their corpse. New York laughs at LA, says "amateurs!", and does the exact same thing to multinational CORPORATIONS. If the King of Saudi Arabia shows up in Washington, he's likely to get his way. If the King of Saudi Arabia shows up at New York City Hall, he'll be brusquely told to take a number and wait his turn (in a hot room with dented folding chairs, all of which have been fully-occupied for hours). Dealing with New York as... well, almost anyone... is like dealing with Walmart as a vendor. No matter how big and powerful you are, they're bigger, more powerful, and will casually crush your hopes & dreams without a second thought.

THAT'S the reality of New York.

Despite criticism from politicians and protests from some vocal locals, most New Yorkers are in favor of a deal to bring Amazon's new headquarters to the city, according to a new poll.

The Quinnipiac University poll found 57 percent of registered New York City voters approve of the controversial deal while 26 percent disapprove.

Amazon is already reconsidering the NYC area HQ.

Link, r270?

I don't mind them coming. I mind the fucking 3 billion in tax breaks. They don't need it!

R271

Talk about whiners