Barbra Streisand, The Queen of Gays

Why is her real name spelled Barbara as it’s typically spelled and yet she goes with Barbra?

The answer is very simple, r1--she changed the spelling.

Memories light the corners of my mind

Who? Streisand is the queen of a few white gays over 70. No one else knows who she is.

I thought Tammy Cruise was the queen of all the gays?

That nose, she could inhale Peru.

You're the irrelevant one, toad r4. And there are black guys who know who she is. One even recorded a duet with her recently, r4--you dumb cunt.

R7, I agree with you.

Why do so many DLers go out of their way to show how fucking ignorant and stupid they are?

Because that's all they can do, r8. They have no options because they're so stupid--like r4.

Did you see her fingernails?

The truth hurts. Streisand is obnoxious, no one likes her music and her singing style is antiquated. She won't be remembered or celebrated by anyone but a few ancient white gays. Who cares if Jamie Foxx recorded a duet with her? So did Melissa McCarthy. Streisand is a garbage fire. She creates little excitement and gives off no light.

[quote]Barbra Streisand, The Queen of Gays

Barbra Streisand, The Dowager Queen of the Gays

r11--you're such a gay plebeian.

Aretha’s death is making some of us insecure in our diva attachment, hence these self-reassuring threads. It’s going to be okay.

Excuse you!

^Otherwise it would be Lisa.

Please. There is only one Queen of the Gays, and Babs is that Queen.

Accept it.

"Judy! Liza! Barbra! Bette!

These are names we don't forget!"

R16 , Simple, just like "Barbra" she chose to change the spelling to her name. See how it works!

Barbra and Liza have been friends for years, and their careers paths have been very different. There's no need to try create a competition between them that doesn't exist.

Typical Barbara fan.

Gays like r20 are like the child who resents his mommy.

She's no queen to this Gay:

The Ultimate Queen of the Gays!

Sometimes the Queen can be cruel, r22.

Yeah, R20 - and Simmons adores her, too.

She is your queen, too, r25.

Naah, R26. I'm more of a Ronstadt guy.

Never understood Streidand's contribution to the cause. Except that maybe a lot older gay's moms loved her show tunes. But a gay queen?! How!?

You don't ask how, r28.

Not a gay queen, r28. Queen of the Gays.

R30 How?! Why?! Being a cool, respectful gay has nothing to do with being an insecure jew woman. I never got that

Liza!

Barbra Streisand, Queen of the Yentas

R11 is hilariously pathetic.

Streisand is pathetic. Buppie at the Bar Mitzvah. Can't sing, moves like an old woman and should cover her old tits already. So embarrassing. Retire your "voice" now BS. Enough.

Perfect pitch? A myth. She sucks. Who gets that gown in two colors? Ancient fags and their queen.

The only Queen I'd bow down to is the real one, Queen Elizabeth. Forget some tacky Jewess with 10 inch nails and her own mall.

There is poorness, suffering, and starvation in the world. But I say, fuck it let's party!

Never heard of her. Who is she?

Apparently, the OP has never heard of the Search function on this site and has decided to attempt to achieve attention via a superfluous thread.

How unabashedly narcissistic.

My, what a heroic accomplishment.

Ain't my queen.

I've had 4 queens in my life - Barbra, Liza, Belinda Carlisle and Ingrid Bergman. I'm 34, but I've never been able to connect with the current, longterm irrelevant, divas.

The real issue is who’s the sad obsessed ancient queen who keeps starting threads on Streisand.

r35/r36/r37--one collective bunch of unruly children who are too stupid to appreciate their Queen. Ungrateful little twats. No matter.

r41, she will always be your Queen, queen.

Nope.... Madonna is Queen. Love Babs, but Madonna sits on that thrown

Madonna is the queen of nothing but her sad old cooch. If you don't recognize Babs over Madge you're very stupid. First of all, Babs has talent.

Here's my address. Can you send all that museum stuff to my mall?

Avigdor wait!

R17, you bitch.

R17: "Judy! Liza! Barbra! Bette!

These are names I shan’t forget!"

I don’t obsess over any female artist. Never got it. The people who are rabid gay fans of divas like Judy, Barbra, Madonna, Beyoncé, et al. I’ve never felt that way about any artist. I love them all for their talents (especially younger Barbra) and enjoy their music, but I’m not some crazed fangurl like so many gays.

Her time has passed, you have to actively maintain your status as queen of the gays. She hung her crown on her past work and when she wasn’t looking someone else snatched it.

Who exactly, r52? In achieving everything the Queen of Gays did on film, tv, in recordings, concerts...no, there is no other Queen.

I’ve heard that back in the day she used those big industrial sized nostrils of hers to sniff her own farts.

Are you still having to repeat the 6th grade at your age, r54?

She actually.sounded very good in the video of “Enough Is Enough”. She never sought to be queen of the gays but nobody in the history of American entertainment has had the career that she has had.

Barbra will be upstaged by the death of someone more current & known ... like maybe one of the Kardashian baby daddies found dead by overdose.

I always thought she looked like a tranny when she was on stage.

Some transwomen you could only hope to like like.

I meant look like.

Interesting observation, R58... maybe she too was a Bruce before she became Barbra?

She is not the queen of THIS gay.....Old Hollywood would have known what to do with her, but, oh no, she was an ARTISTE, which is how we have The Fockers.

You cannot judge Streisand or Minnelli on what they are now. These women were unbelievably talented beyond description. They electrified their audiences with their signing, performing, interpretation of the music, their star power, talent and how audiences reacted and stayed fans for decades.

You don't get sent into the stratosphere and get to stay there your entire life with no talent. Barbra, Liza, Bette, Cher, Aretha, Whitney and a few others. They reached the heights. They are all queens of the gays and everyone else who appreciates talent.

r63, what did Aretha think of the gays? She seemed pretty religious.

Entertainers like Cher, Diana Ross, Barbra Streisand, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Liza Minnelli, Madonna have achieved a lot in their careers. Music, movies, concerts, huge fan bases. Most of them are already legends. Tastes of their fans vary and some of us like/dislike some of them. No one can impose their opinion on the rest of us. The debate will lead to grease fires, pearl clutching and lots of side-eye.

R43:

The queen's name is Barbot.

Nice kroyn, thanks.

You can order my merchandise trough my website!

Love Barbra

I have seen genuine love for Aretha after her passing. Barbara will not get that kind of love.

Streisand is one of the most overrated singers of all time. Never understood her appeal and she has been completely irrelevant for almost 30 years. And she's, let's say, unattractive.

Isn’t one of Aretha’s sons a gay-the one that she caught her husband Glynn Turman in bed with?

Barbra lost her fag-hag vibe by the 1970s.

"For Pete's Sake" in 1974 and her "The Way We Were" album of the same year was the last of 1960s Barbra.

Her disco stuff with the BeeGees and Donna Summer was gay icon material ...but there was not much afterwards.

r68, r69 and r71 are petulant gay children. She is your queen, you queens. That WILL NOT change because of your tantrums.

Babs is Queen of The Gays by her work and also producing a gay son.

A lot of people would dispute that R71- concerts starting in 1994, more CDs, many of them going to no 1 etc. To each his/her own. But I find the vicious posts about her very depressing and sad. Why are some of you so awful? She is one of the greatest and most original talents ever in show business and along with Aretha perhaps the most gifted singer of her time. She has given away tens of million of dollars- built hospitals, funded AIDs research, helped turn around anti-gay legislation in CO in the early 90s, put herself on the line politically in word and with her purse. The casual meanness on this thread and others is sad.

Are some of you so angry and/or dissatisfied with you lives that you need to be crude mud slingers at those who are successful, gifted, even generous? I expect on or two comments- but not floods of dysfunction. Not just Streisand but many other personalities of great achievement. Same garbage all over Facebook too. As I have said before, I know why Trump won, aside from Comey's last minute interference. People cannot see truth from lies, good from bad- in the US at least.

The state of the human condition is very sad- self destructive really.

Barbara is not queen of anything!

Queen of Movies - Streep

Queen of Soul - Aretha

Queen of Pop - Madonna

Barbara is too self-involved and nebbishy to be queen of anything. She is a quaint dinosaur like Tony Bennett.

r75, you're so naive.

More like realistic! Get over your Barbara delusion!

R74 is Charlie. Bump a Whitney Houston thread and observed how compassionate old Charile was towards her.

Whitney was a great singer- if I stated the reality of her life- substance abuse and suppressed sexuality seemed to have ruined her life- too bad if I stated the obvious truth. I have never come close to be vicious about Whitney Houston. Or Judy Garland, another great talent and tragedy. Whitney's careers was hobbled more than Garlands for some reason. Nothing tragic about Streisand. Just the opposite. She has also used her great success and fame to do some good in the world- big time.

Amen R78. Good old Charlie can't let ANY thread full of love and appreciation for Whitney's voice go by without responding with many negative posts and argumentative comments.

You're lying charlie. You have obsessively posted against anyone who doesn't accept Streisand as the best singer of all time. And you are not kind - you are both passive aggressive and argumentative. Particularly about Whitney.

I think all the big gay icons have obviously huge amounts of talent, but they've all made their missteps in their careers. Barbra and Liza and Judy never got their chance to play Mama Rose in Gypsy for one reason or another. Judy wanted to, but she was uninsurable. Barbra and Liza were offered the role a few times, but turned it down for many reasons and, now, they're too old and don't have the voices for it anymore. Bette got the role and was terrible in it (one of her biggest mistakes if you ask me).

Furthermore it is not a sign of dysfunction to dislike Streisand. Quite the opposite.

I'm bordering on being an eldergay and have to say that Barbra's divadom was never particularly gay. Her fame and star power extended into her middle ages enough for her to be a reasonable figure for any drag queen to work into an act -- but her appeal didn't go very deep into any especially gay sensibility. She wasn't high art like Maria Callas and she couldn't really pull off being trash (like Bette and Madonna.) She is really just another 'great drag character' to put on a list when being campy.

[quote]I'm bordering on being an eldergay and have to say that Barbra's divadom was never particularly gay. Her fame and star power extended into her middle ages enough for her to be a reasonable figure for any drag queen to work into an act -- but her appeal didn't go very deep into any especially gay sensibility.

Obviously you weren't around in the 1960s.

Barbra was just a unique speller.

R85 Here's Barbra in 1963 at 21 years old, introduced by Dean Martin.

Gay men went nuts over her: the ugly duckling looks with a touch of glamour, her choice of singing nostalgic songs (at a time when young singers shunned them), the drama, her unusual gestures and expressions ...and since gay men recognize genuine talent...her spectacular voice.

At the time there was no one... but no one... like her. Not even close.

....

I always thought she was a huge hit on the drag queen circuit. I mean, she always looked like an ugly fag in drag.

R81- that's your point of view. I always say to each his own. I don't know if Streisand is the best singer ever- maybe Aretha, maybe Judy, maybe Ella, maybe Sarah- I always say don't compare, rather celebrate. Whitney was wonderful for the 10 or 15 years she could sing and was productive. But she never produced the catalogue of music any of the others mentioned did- not close (8 released albums?). She sang mostly pop except when she performed gospel. And at that, to my knowledge she never recorded gospel. Aretha's live gospel album is one of the greatest things ever recorded. My opinion is that Whitey pulled the rug our from under herself- could not develop fully as a singer. Greatest Love of All, I Will Always Love You and When Will I Know are nice, but not Gershwin, or Sondheim or Berlin, or Arlen or Mitchell or Lennon/McCartney or Aretha (Respect is pop music that changed the idiom). Sorry if you cannot take the discussion R81.

Also: the song that established Streisand as a gay icon was not People.

You have to go back to 1962 with "Happy Days Are Here Again".

She took a happy fast paced song from 1929 that every one knew but a song that no one ever really listened to the lyrics to and she sung it slowly, milking every word. She gave the lyrics new meaning.

She's only 20 years old here.

List the singers today in their 20s that can sing like this.

[quote] I have never come close to be vicious about Whitney Houston

[quote]My own take on her is that she was not real bright, or very confident. She looked to others for strength. In the long run that does not work out well for anyone. RIP.

[quote]I've always thought Whitney was probably kind of dumb in addition the never being close to the image constructed for her under which she chaffed.

Or poor Mariah Carey You call this being respectful?:

[quotes]When I was a kid we would call tall "big girls", "loads". Watta "load". Now I know it is not nice to call someone names, but this entertainer invites it, as Elizabeth Taylor did years ago by wearing clothes that do not flatter, and or course, courting the press as the same time.

[quote]She did not talk to anyone and he thought she looked and behaved like an unstable nut- more concerned with a hair out of place than anything or anyone else. Funny.

Carey has a mental illness, BTW. There's no humor in that.

Hopefully she’ll die soon and the world will be finally rid of her.

Lainie's been drinking again.

Kiddo, just ask for Paul at The Ritz........

She may be a horrid bitch but she’s one of the most generous in Hollywood

Less than 100 replies in 4 days makes clear BS most certainly is not queen of the gays.

Generous with charity, but a cheap cunt with people in general. I hope she dies in a latke grease fire down in her mall- next to the Hot Dog on a Stick.

Please stand

This is Barbara’s legacy. Not much support and Ryan Murphy will make her into another grand ghoul. People will say - who is that rodent?

I liked her up until she got the perm. Then she didn't seem like Barbra any more.

She's always Barbra. The USA's most overrated singer and one of the most obnoxious and disliked celebrities ever. And not because she's a strong woman like Charlie, but because she is a total narcissistic ASSHOLE. Completely tone deaf, always self serving and defensive. Bad taste in most everything, pretentious as fuck about the schlock she serves up.

Streisand's name does not belong in the same sentence nor stratosphere as Ella, Sarah, Whitney and Aretha.

Not even on her best hair day and nails day.

Her career pretty much ended with the Fockers franchise, yes? Then effectively retirement or seclusion since?

The Queen of Gays and Barbra Streisand are so synonymous that people don't need to respond to this in a thread. A hundred posts is about right for a very obvious topic.

She's like the Queen of England. No matter how old and out of touch, she's still the Queen.

Does she know she´s our Queen?

Last time i checked she was God.

I think you might be right, r105. But she's still Queen of the Gays.

The ones that say Barbra is overrated are the ones that have never been in a room with her let alone seen her perform live. She is simply magical. Like Aretha her voice may not be what it once was in sound and shear range but there artistry is still intact. Whitney was great but she still wasn’t quite in their league.

TMZ once reported that Madonna and Streisand know each other from SSMA (super star mums anonymus).

Part of the program are "Coping with Bad Seed"- talks, and creativly dressing your" Inner Dissappointet Parent". At the "Look,what you did to me!" contest Madonna won with her tears of a clown performance.

Barbra- allegedly- said. "I ´ve got my hands full with on of them(un-grosses eyes)......nuts! You take care of the rest now! And good luck with that neckless monster of yours, rocky?

ore she just was asking for a authograph

Well get R92 quoting me from years ago. Yikes- you sound a tad obsessed with me. Nevertheless I stand by those words- which have nothing to do with Huston byt the way. I think Mariah Carey is "off", or close to it- in appearance, performance, and interview. Made some good recordings early in her career (I have the first CD) and clearly has great pipes, or rather used to. But something is not right about her. Just my opinion- sorry if you think it's mean .

R103, after Fockers Streisand did a couple more tours, each record breaking in sales, and recorded several CDs, two of which made it to no 1, the others into the top 10- not too shabby. I agree Fockers is junk- she did them for the $ from which she made tens of millions- and she likes to give money away- and does. Some of you have almost an unnatural hate for the woman, but R103, would be best to be a little informed. Anonymous posting on the internet never ceases to amaze.

No one I know would ever think that Barbara Streisand of all people is their queen. She is old as dirt and sings show tunes. She is completely out of touch with modern audiences. Yech.

^Stupid "youth."

R86 Nice try kiddo. but singing a song just because you can is not enough.

I do appreciate you remembering the lyrics, now you might wanna put some meaning into them.

Work on : stage presence, wow-factor, attidude, emotion and have those curtains in the backround ironed and adjusted.

Except for the audiences who sell out her concerts and send her CDs to #1 at age 75 despite the diminished voice (artistry still counts as does the ability to hold a stage without massive production- imagine that, a singer who just, well, sings!) Bunch of stupid elder gays no doubt account for the most successful and acclaimed entertainer pretty much ever and career spanning nearly 60 years. That’s it!

She spray painted my microphone white! Why it gotta be white?!

Ophra, it was OFF-white and i HAD it sprayed!

Sorry but most gays don’t give a shit about Barbara. Certainly not many gays under 65.

r116 playing the broken record that Streisand is "irrelevant." Yet she makes millions and sells out stadiums even now. They're not all in their 60s, hunty.

What stadiums is Barbara selling out now? You are stuck in the past.

Here ya go, r118. Try not to continue to embarrass yourself. There is such a thing as Google, you know.

^Number 1 last year in concert sales.

Because she is the Queen.

I am the not quite an elder gay (who indeed does not remember the 60s) who scoffed at the idea Barbra was an especially important diva in the gay pantheon. But I have to retract my statement.

The last thing Craig Zadan put on social media before his deadly shoulder surgery was a retweet of Barbra's post of herself with Aretha. That counts for something.

Very wise, r121.

That fat ugly mean cow ain’t my queen!

Can't deny the obvious, r123.

QUEEN.

a class of her own

Barbra is not an EGOT. Honorary award does not count.

Where is that coming from, r126?

the MOOST wondrfull thing i´ve evr seen

The article that was just posted. Some of us do read R127.

You read Internet articles, r129, to keep it in perspective. Those are okay to skim. Get back to me when you're read Ulysses, hunty.

R126 I´m philosphical about it. It´s like the Indians who sew a flaw into the blanket because life is never perfect.

There’s always a slight discontent or dissatisfaction when you’re an artist, but that’s just the way it is . . .

Love Barbra

LOL, she would be much more appealing if she let others say how fabulous she was. No one needs to hear it from the horse's mouth.

But people do say it, r132. That's what this thread is all about. And all those awards she's won also say it.

I think she'd be fun to know.

R133, you missed the point- but never mind. Take your Metamucil and go to bed.

No, I didn't miss the point, r135. Perhaps you're not smart enough to see the point. But since you're the one who's full of shit, maybe you should take the heaping helping of Metamucil yourself. I can't help the shit that's impacted in your head.

Ahem....... Much love my eldergay children this song is my gift to you ....

Oh dear

^Double oh, dear.

Sorry, Cher is the Queen of the Gays.

R138 Who would have thought Liza Minnelli would wind up looking like Buddy Hackett....

And sounding like him.

No, r140. She's no more the queen than Kathy Griffin.

I never thought Barbra was not quite a classic gay icon. After her 'ugly ducking makes good' scenario with the Cleopatra eye makeup triumphing in a world of Sandra Dees (when she was undoubtedly a gay icon), Barbra pulled back in the '70s. There was a certain conservatism about her - not politically conservative but socially conservative : all her life she's been basically a nice Jewish girl from 1940s Brooklyn who grew up believing a husband, house and child were where true happiness was. She was definitely not a "Diva With Drama" - No wild excesses, no public drunkenness or drug problems, no messy multiple divorces or public break-ups. And more importantly, no live performances. She eschewed the love of showbiz razz-ma-tazz that Liza and Bette thrived on, and she did not need the love coming up from a cheering live audience. In fact, she hated it. (In the '60s, Tennessee Willians sensed this, referring to her public performances as occasions where "you will listen, and you will learn. But you will not get close.") These qualities do not a classic gay icon make.

All gays need their queen, and she is theirs. It's true that she's lived her life intelligently, and with class: no drama, no addictions. She's a winner, refreshing since up to then a gay icon was Judy--self-defeating, self-destructive, a victim, and ultimately a loser. Streisand is all win-win, which is healthy for gay people, who have come from the margins as oppressed to a viable minority to a force to be reckoned with, politically. That's winning.

Barbra is the perfect queen for gays. She's loaded with talent, everything she's done she's done successfully, and her image--ugly duckling/swan/self-respecting diva--is an image gays can look up to.

I was under the impression that she had an issue with stage fright that must has first started in the 70s but became a real issue in the 80s. (Today's stars call this anxiety and they swear by the lethality of their panic attacks - she was much less open about it.) My guess is that her decision to react by carefully controlling her performance environment and finally cutting down on public appearances rather than getting boozed up to slur her way through her issues removed her from true 'gay icon' status.

But what I'm getting from this thread is that the term 'queen' is not as negotiable as 'goddess' -- if you stop worshipping the queen she still gets to be queen until she is deposed.

"getting boozed up to slur her way through her issues removed her from true 'gay icon' status."

r146, with Judy, that's what being a gay icon meant. And by extension, that was the kind of behavior we were supposed to admire--victimization. And emulate it. Streisand proved that's not what an icon is. Or a queen. And we're better for it.

Face it Barbara stans, she is unlikable and aloof - she definitely doesn’t give a shit about gays.

r148--face it, it's probably you she wouldn't give a shit about.

Of course she wouldn’t - but I don’t live in some fantasy world that this horrible ugly woman is a queen!

Deny your queen all you like, r150. Her prominence doesn't change, hunty.

How about some respect for Marvin Hamlisch EGOT? He's been the Prince of Tunes for her, after all.

[quote]with Judy, that's what being a gay icon meant. And by extension, that was the kind of behavior we were supposed to admire--victimization. And emulate it. Streisand proved that's not what an icon is. Or a queen. And we're better for it.

Who is this "we" you're talking about?

"We" were "supposed to admire--victimization. And emulate it" Oh really? According to whom?

Love Judy. But I don't admire victimization. If anything, Garland's life is a cautionary tale.

Relating to the tragedy of her life, has nothing to do with wanting it for my own.

Streisand WAS at one time a gay icon...but that phase of her career ended , as it ended for Bette Midler.

And further more: I don't know any gay men that need "role models" to "look up to".

How pathetic.

Didn't Marvin Hamlish prefer Idina to all the other divas before he died?

r145: I don't disagree with your assessment Streisands accomplishments. But you are describing a role model. I feel a classic gay icon needs an element of excess, whether in performance or life experience. Barbra sure had that in-your-face 'excess' in the 60s - but from the '70s on, she's been serious, level-headed and sane.

"but from the '70s on, she's been serious, level-headed and sane."

What's wrong with that, r155?

"I don't know any gay men that need "role models" to "look up to."

Who said anything about "needing" role models, r153?

Same happened to Bette. She's working for the frauen now.

Nothing wrong with that at all, r156. Any "excess" she has now is probably due to coffee ice cream.

She'll never be my queen. I've had an unpleasant encounter with her, as did 2 of my relatives. She's a cheap, nasty, rude cunt. I don't care how talented she is or was. Just a vile person.

Oh, and her ex mother in law Lucy was just as bad. A mean, old dyke.

[quote]Who said anything about "needing" role models, [R153]?

Your words: "Streisand proved that's not what an icon is. Or a queen. And we're better for it."

Well, you certainly think you know what's good for "us".

They messy part of Garland's life is endlessly fascinating.

Should I be afraid somehow of being tainted by it?

"she definitely doesn't give a shit about gays" then why did she come out in favor of gay marriage after the Colorado anti gay statutes in the early 90s. Why did she give millions to AmFar and why does her foundation continue to donate to all manner of gay lesbian and transgender initiatives. Why has her production company produced TV films that addressed gays in the military? Some people on this thread are as brain dead as Trump.

Stupid thread: "Queen"? No- she is simply one of the most supremely talented and successful entertainers in show business history. Her fan base in vast and international and included far more than gay men- ditto Judy Garland. Streisand's legacy is complete and no manner of silly ignorance on this site or DL demonstrates anything but stupidity. Certainly no one has to like her or be a fan. But the vicious posts (some are funny) are more a signal about the poster and the nefarious side of human nature when it can vent anonymously.

A Classic 'gay icon' is not a role model but a template for performance art. An actual Diva is part of a cultural vocabulary used to process what sets gay aesthetic apart. Gay men appreciate a diva for entirely different reasons than straight women and straight men. That includes NOT considering them to be role models.

Gay women appreciate something entirely different than gay men when it comes to picking both 'dykons' and Divas. Unlike gay men, gay women DO prefer for a Diva to be a role model and extra points are given for surviving a lot of bullshit and retaining some level of competence and artistic integrity. (Dykons are actually sexually attractive from what I have gathered.)

"is" vast, and "includes"

[quote]A Classic 'gay icon' is not a role model but a template for performance art. An actual Diva is part of a cultural vocabulary used to process what sets gay aesthetic apart. Gay men appreciate a diva for entirely different reasons than straight women and straight men. That includes NOT considering them to be role models.

Well said.

Do you think, maybe, folks, that the "Queen" label is meant to be tongue in cheek?

And there is something to be said for retiring the Judy self-destructive/society's victim trope, which I assume is long gone now, anyway (at least I hope so).

What is her clit like? Asking for a friend.

The thing about Judy's self destruction was that she survived a lot of bad shit for a good amount of time -- but also she ended up reliant on the patience of her gay fans. Bette and Judy BOTH had a period in their career where they exclusively appealed to gay audiences. Bette because she believed herself up to the challenge of what she perceived to be a more demanding audience and Judy because she was so messed up she required a forgiving one.

Barbra never seemed to consider gays to be her target audience in an exclusive way. She never fell like Judy or dared to be edgy like Bette. There was never a big 'my gays' phase in her career where she depended on gays to pay her bills. Instead she appears to have always considered gay men and lesbians to be part of her working environment (because 'duh'). So she fought to play Yentl and pushed Amy Irving to keep a lesbo vibe with the same sex marriage relationship and she donated to causes. She always seemed more in tune to her gay peers than her potential gay audience. I don't think there is too much wrong with that.

R168 Barbra started out in clubs in the Village...the Bon Soir and the Blue angel. These clubs had a mostly gay audience. She was on the bill at the Bon Soir with headliner Phyllis Diller no less.

Her appeal was to gay men.

You really think straight men wanted to go out for a night on the town to see a campy unattractive young woman singing "My Man"?

My gosh, just watch her "Hello Gorgeous!" Oscar acceptance speech!

This is Barbra's big number from "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" (1962)...the number that brought the house down and propelled her to stardom. Can you see why gay men fell for her?

She seems to be winning in the Diva battle thread by a landslide.

I watched Judy's version of ASIB last week for the first time in years, and it aged like a banana. The movie is not that good, and Garland's performance is highly overrated. I can finally see why she lost the Oscar. Her singing is good, but she sounds the same on every song. There's no variation in her voice, which gets old by the end of the film.

Streisand's version was worse, but her singing is far superior to Judy's. She's able to vary her tone and dynamics to fit each song perfectly. Judy didn't have the range and agility in her vocals to do this.

She really was a great singer in the 1960s. One of the all time greats. She should have been happy just with that. Other areas she has tried have been just so-so, sometimes awful. Now she seems full of herself and that kind of ruins her image and legacy.

r172, suggesting Streisand should only have stuck to singing is ridiculous. She proved her talent as an actress, then went on to composing music, directing and producing films. Sometimes she was wonderful, sometimes not. But how absurd to suggest she should only have stayed a singer.

Nothing she has done has ruined either her legacy or her image. That's completely absurd.

Streisand could stand to lose a few pounds. She' gotten too fat.

I agree R172 and apparently so do her peers who have given her every award in show business in every venue, multiple times, lifetime achievements and other awards from the Federal government. Her catalogue of music is easily the largest and most varied of any popular singer- ever. To say that she was only a good singer in the 60s is kind of silly. She has sublime recordings spanning from the early 60s to the present- diminished voice not withstanding. Find her recent recording of "Didn't Know What Time It Was" or Google her recent live performances of it- no singer alive better.

Two Oscars (acting and composing), countless other film awards for acting and directing, an AFI Lifetime Achievement Award, Presidential medal, Kennedy Center award--all from doing things other than "just" singing. I'd say her legacy and her image are doing just fine.

And let's see your waistline at 76, r174, you silly queer.

[quote]And let's see your waistline at 76, [R174], you silly queer.

Wow. Homophobic much?

Some of you Streisand fans can sure dish it out but can't take it in return. I think this was discussed in the other recent thread. on her, wasn't it?

Homophobic! I'm queer, too, r177. Do you prefer silly twat? That was my second choice.

R169

Hmmm. You make a good point. Barbra DID focus on a gay audience in the 60s much like Bette did in the 70s. I think what keeps me (the not quite elder gay who does not actually remember the 60s first hand) from believing she is particularly gay as an icon is that her appeal to straight men as a goofy looking jewish outsider with a slight 'girl friday' sex appeal was never that different than her appeal to gay men. So 'getting' her from 'What's Up Doc" onward did not require any different appreciation. She was kind of appealing as a funny, talented gawky girl but too smart mouthed and demanding to be sexy to straight men and too female to be sexy to gay men. Gay men loved her in spite of not being attracted to women and straight men loved her in spite of her not being the kind of woman they usually found attractive. Loving Streisand just isn't automatically a sign you are gay.

Did Bette have the same career as a gay diva? She also navigated her fame so that when her young sexy attractiveness started to wear thin she was so fun and talented that straight men STILL liked her for the same reason gay men liked her. In spite of embracing camp at first, Barbra matured into a brittle RICH and successful diva and Bette managed to keep her fun, bawdy approach just on the appealing side of camp's creepy underlying horror. In spite of aging past their sex appeal days - neither Bette nor Barbra faltered in their popularity. Too many people outside of the gay community liked them both for exactly the same reason the gay community liked them. There was no special appreciation of either artist that only a man who did not find women sexually interesting could understand.

[quote]Hmmm. You make a good point. Barbra DID focus on a gay audience in the 60s much like Bette did in the 70s. I think what keeps me (the not quite elder gay who does not actually remember the 60s first hand) from believing she is particularly gay as an icon is that her appeal to straight men as a goofy looking jewish outsider with a slight 'girl friday' sex appeal was never that different than her appeal to gay men. So 'getting' her from 'What's Up Doc" onward did not require any different appreciation.

Straight men in the 1960s were into Ann-Margret, Raquel Welch, Ursula Andress, Angie Dickinson, Faye Dunaway, Natalie Wood, Stella Stevens, Elke Sommer, Julie Christie, Britt Ekland.... not Barbra Streisand. Please.

Funny Girl, Funny Lady, Clear Day, Hello Dolly....they were musicals...gay men territory. The lead characters were not in the least sexy...glamorous maybe but not sexy.

That changed somewhat with "The Owl and the Pussycat". But believe me straight men were not particularly into her.

R180

That is exactly my point. By the 70s Streisand was making bank on audiences because straight men thought she was funny and could sing well the same way gay men thought she was funny and could sing well. They were not baffled by anyone's interest in this not particularly sexy woman. Gay men and the rest of Barbra's audience appreciated her the same way. BECAUSE SHE WASN'T SEXY to them. Just being in musicals was kind of gay in the 60s -- but there was a growing disconnect between the outright gay aware (and supportive) aspect of Liza's musical career and Barbra's. Musical theater and tin pan alley (and the great american song book) were just as Jewish as they were gay.

I deliberately mentioned 'The Owl and the Pussycat' because that is my first memory of her. By the 70s Babs was a major jewish star rather than a part of gay culture that only made sense to gay men. A higher percentage of gay men might have had an interest in Barbra as a musical theater phenomenon -- but there were more straight men (numerically) who were interested in her as an opinionated, loud, kind of skilled and successful Jewish woman. If she sang her movies made money. That was interesting.

Streisand was not merely a major "Jewish" star in the 70s--she was a star period, and certainly the biggest female star who could compete at the box office with any man. As for straight men, I have at least three straight male friends, one of whom said as a kid he was turned on by Streisand in only a towel in What's Up, Doc? and two others (including my straight brother) mention she had a great body--particularly her legs and ass. So there's that. I'm not saying she could compete with Julie Christie or Jane Fonda but she had her appeal.

I'm just saying that she wasn't exclusive to gays from the 70s onward in any identifiable way. Liza was always surrounded by gay men and overtly seeking the attention and approval of gay men. And in the end, i think Liza earned it. Her mother's status as a gay icon was much complicated and involved a lot of appreciation that straight people no longer had for Judy (the whole tragedy bit) -- but Liza was full on gay centric in her whole approach to performance in a completely straightforward way. Even her daddy issues were gay related. Perhaps the presence of Liza for me challenges Barbra's status as the ultimate gay icon. Not only was Barbra never a connected to gay history as Judy but she was not nearly as aware and immersed in an almost completely homosexual environment the way Liza was. She was a bigger star than Liza but never more meaningful in any 'gay culture' sense.

How many number 1 hits did she have? And how did she hold that one note at the end of "The Main Event"?

She’s no Aretha. Just a tired old bag who sang show tunes. Her weird vanity, controlling insecurities, and stupid pontificating make her insufferable.

It's too bad Barbra didn't work with stronger directors, because she isn't one herself. And cut off those damn talons.

r186, she worked with 3-time Oscar winning director William Wyler, Sydney Pollock, Gene Kelly, Herbert Ross, Vincente Minnelli, Peter Bogdanovich...mayeb you'll want to Google them.

r186, as for not being a director herself, she did win as Best Director for Yentl over Ingmar Bergman (for Fanny and Alexander), Peter Yates, James L Brooks (for Terms of Endearment) and Mike Nichols (for Silkwood) as Best Director at the Golden Globes. So much for your brilliant insight into these matters.

Is this thread by her publicist and one weird fan? Seems very familiar and psychotic.

r186 is right. The films made with the directors r187 cited are from the best, early part of her film career (before it fell into overindulgence).

I love Barbra, but she should have had a much more impressive filmography than she does. She wasted her talents on a lot of crap.

R188, well Pia Zadora has a Golden Globe too. Yentl reeked, as did her other directoral efforts.

Actually Yentl was pretty good -- especially if you compare it (as you have) to anything Pia Zadora ever did.

Who's she?

Yes, Barbra was so convincing as a 17 year old boy I completely forgot it was her.

She's lucky anyone put up the money for that turkey.

Did she finally give up on Gypsy? Instead of looking for financing, she can produce it herself if she's convinced she will be so great. The movie to bookend Funny Girl she said.

Oh cunty r195, I wouldn't gloat if I were you. Remember everything she has that you sure don't.

Please, I can drive to South Coast Plaza. I don't need my own mall.

Yeah? You have her $400 million, too, hunty?

No, but I have a nice house at the beach and I'm not an obnoxious Jew.

No, you're just an anti-semitic cunt. Do fuck off.

Ohhh, r199 has a "nice house at the beach." Babs has houses, plural, filled with Oscars and valuable art. Is yours on a cliff overlooking the Pacific? LMFAO!

Yes she does. Buy her taste is so fucking tacky, she had to donate her last compound because no one would buy it.

And yes, mine is a singular house overlooking the ocean. Buy I can only live in one.

You tired fags run along and set up your gramaphones. It must be time to masturbate to her latest duet-shit album.

Hey dickcheese @ r202, you think no one would have wanted to buy a 24-acre Malibu property that was valued at $15 million (way back in 1993) and that she "had to donate" it? LMFAO.

A "singular" house? "Gramaphone"? You're an idiot. But what can anyone expect from someone like you who calls people "fags" and "obnoxious Jews"? You sound way too stupid to own any decent property.

r202's "singular" house on the beach.

"Classy" South Coast Plaza Mall, where r202 says he shops.

The interior court of the South Coast Plaza Mall, where r202 rides one one the bunny rabbits after shopping.

I love Barbra but that mall of hers is really Atomic Frau.

That compound was listed for MONTHS, if not years. NO one wanted it. I'm sure you can Google it, if you can use Google.

"Joseph T. Edmiston, executive director of the conservancy, described Streisand's Ramirez Canyon property as "the most valuable land ever donated to the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area."

Not only can I Google, but I can also spell "gramophone." r202 is the one who seems to be learning challenged.

The homes of Barbra. No sale after listing at $19.5 million, she donated the compound which was appraised at $14 million. Even with a tax break, she lost money. TACKY, no one wanted her crappy houses.

Crappy? Yes, I'm sure this just can't compete with r202's luxurious singular house on the beach.

So "crappy."

R203, so what's your answer to no one wanting the Ramirez Canyon houses?

r213, prove it yourself. Surely you can use Google even if you can't spell.

Clearly the property itself was very valuable and clearly she's done just fine since.

The link is at 210. Surely you can read. No one said she wasn't doing "fine". But no one wanted to buy her houses in Ramirez then- even for the land value. Which is what I originally posted.

You sound like a Trumper- always changing the subject.

With your over-investment, I hope you are one of her financial advisors. And when she's dead, no one will want her current place either. Not many people are looking for houses with malls.

some music

r215, the current property is worth $100 million. The "mall" is merely the basement in one of the houses and has no bearing on the value of the property. Clearly the real estate is beautiful and valuable.

As I said, she's doing just fine and always has. Sorry you have such a hate hard-on. I'm sure your singular "beach house" must really put her compound to shame.

LMFAO.

Barbra is tacky, cheap, mean spirited, narcissistic, unpopular, unattractive, a bad mother and fake ally to gay people. She couldn't be more pretentious and bourgeois. Her bad taste is legendary. Already forgotten as a singer and film star, she put out 5 good albums in 60 years.

R218

But the very fact you didn't include 'fat' in the list of descriptors indicates you accept her as your queen.

Oh, honey, r218, she could buy and sell your entire family. But don't worry: she wouldn't go near such trash.

r218, she hasn't even been putting out albums for 60 years. Your math skills are woeful.

She has a naturally combative personality, and yes, gets more shit for it than if she was a man.

She can be worth a billion, but she's a tacky bitch that is not well-liked in the industry. There's a picture of her someplace, sitting in her mall surrounded by her awards in a gown that looks like it was made out of drapery material.

Tacky, rude, ugly, lost her voice and a cunt.

r223, the picture was not taken in her "mall," it was taken in one of her many rooms (as if she keeps her awards in her mall). The dress was for the photoshoot and cost about $20,000. You talk as if you're some insider who has the inside scoop but you're just a bitchy cunt who has no knowledge of anything you speak--hence getting all your "facts" wrong. If she were so hated she wouldn't be as massively successful as she's been. So do go fuck yourself.

Wow, I blocked one poster and most of the pro-Babs crazy stan posts disappear!

^Wow! So you won't know when they're dragging you!

She's not my queen.

The Queen of queens.

Her pussy stinks.

Yes, it does stink. Does her mall sell any vaginal odor products?

r229 and r230 should know all about stinky pussies. Their cunts reek to high heaven--like a raccoon crawled up there and died.

Besides we all know the Queen La Streisand is meticulous in her ablutions. Even her Coton du Tulears have exemplary twats--including the males.

Let's face it. She's no Connie Francis.