Living in an extreme fixer upper to save cash...advice?

Mortgage would bring tax advantages. No heat electricity and running water? Probably forbidden in most places.

You would also want - safe neighbourhood, sound construction, no fire hazards, no insects and vermin. Now go out and price how many shacks exist in that situation?

Why not a better house, a mortgage, and take in roommates to pay the mortgage while you are in school.

I would look for a shitty house with a good foundation. You can actually do roof repairs (or even re-shingle a roof) yourself. Siding is not necessary: you can wrap the house in tyvek to add an extra layer of protection

I considered similar. They are usually cash sales only and some are foreclosure transactions which can be minefields. Read up on that. Code enforcements happen in incorporated areas, but the boonies, I assume you would be OK.

"No need for utilities,...."

Not even water or sewer? Ewww, just eww.

Well, maybe sewer. It would be like camping/olden days. Yeah, it would be hard, but the payoff would be worth it. You could always shower at the gym or something.

Can I just sell it for whatever afterward? Not looking to make a profit...

i'd be careful about finding the right house. you don't want toxic mold or asbestos.

or animal or human piss and shit smell. cat piss never goes away

it can be depressing to live in squalor. why not a very simple spartan studio apartment? Clean and new but simple.

Wait a sec...you aren't going to have utilities? Is there dry wall in this habitation?

The biggest problem is you're not going to be able to sell this thing to any kind of buyer except cash. No bank will loan anymore money to buy a house that is in this kind of shape.

Also, if you're living in the boonies, what is gas going to cost to get you to work everyday? Where are you going to poop? (Pooping on your property, on the land itself, is a crime. So you're going to have to get some sort of composting toilet. Are you ready to deal with that? Where is the water coming from?)

Have you thought about renting someone's converted garage? Some people have large sheds (no water, but A/C and proper siding and roof) that they'll rent under the table. Some people will let you live rent free if you do housework.

You might as well go live in a tent.

Things to beware of:

* liens, especially those imposed for ongoing city code violations. They won't necessarily be easy to discover (often, filed against "John Doe" and recorded in ways that can't easily be discovered... and possibly not EVEN formally recorded until a year or two later. Title insurance WILL NOT protect you from liens arising from ongoing code violations.

* certain things, like non-code-compliant wiring or plumbing, can get a house condemned at any time, even if the house was occupied that way for years before the city noticed.

* if you own multiple properties in the same county, a lien filed against one can attach to them ALL. You might be able to prevent old liens filed against a prior owner from attaching to your other properties, but not liens filed for code violations while YOU were the owner.

Basically, if you buy an "extreme" fixer-upper & aren't prepared to remedy ALL existing code violations IMMEDIATELY, you'll be -- at best -- the legal equivalent of a squatter in a house you technically own... and depending on jurisdiction, COULD potentially be prosecuted criminally & face the prospect of actual jail time (esp. if you own a non-secured property that becomes a crack house & you appear to be passively indifferent or complicit).

Long story short, owning ghetto property is legally dangerous unless you're able to bring it into compliance quickly. There's a reason why the first thing investors do after buying ghetto property is bulldoze it to the ground & put up a fence... anything else is a HUGE legal risk.

(source: I bought a ghetto house as an investment circa 2004, and ended up with a property I couldn't sell (literally, not even Habitat for Humanity would take it), but couldn't afford to bring into code-compliance, and went through absolute HELL owning for 12 years. At one point, I *begged* the city to just take it and end the nightmare... the city refused, and all I had was a non-legally-binding promise by one code enforcement official that I wouldn't be prosecuted criminally, as long as I "did my best" to mitigate the worst violations (specifically, keeping the structure free of vagrants, drug dealers/users, and other trespassers, and keeping the yard mowed & trash-free... hard to do when people dump fucking mattresses & junk there every few days).

My advice: unless you're a real estate lawyer & have $50k to spare at a moment's notice, RUN AWAY from any seemingly-good "deal" on ghetto real estate.

This post sounds like the start of a very sad cautionary tale.

R1, R9, and R10 all have better ideas.

As a house flipper, I'd stay away from any house in a poor neighborhood. The old adage of "buy the crappiest house in the best neighborhood" will ALWAYS be good advice. You will have issues with insurance most definitely. In some areas in my city, flood insurance is twice the taxes. I once had a house that seemed too good to be true, until my insurance agent ran the address and it was tagged as SRL, severe repetitive loss. It was basically uninsurable and hence, why it was so cheap.

I have a friend who had the same idea, but the problem is unless the area improves, you are looking for another you when selling time comes, and you're stuck with a property that you can't get ride of like R13 said.

Condos are the cheapest in my area but you are at the mercy of assessments and dues hikes. I routinely see condos for $50,000 that have a $600/mo condo fee. Ridiculous!

OP is not talking about ghetto property. He’s talking about boondocks property.

OP you sound like a serial killer.

I'd rather live in a new trailer. And I don't like trailers. But I had decay. Unless its a European palazzo. And summer.

That sounds like a terrible plan OP. Besides all the pitfalls that could surprise you with big cash requirements, just on a personal level its depressing to live that way. Sure a week or two is like camping but after reality sets in that this is who you are, it will eat at your motivation. It gets really old living that way, running to the gym to shower, no bathroom etc. Plus I assume you are single and don't expect anyone to be even remotely interested in a relationship with someone who chooses a life like that just to be cheap.

I hope you are very young, like 20 something. If you are over 35 and this is your master plan, it's pathetic.

Why don't you just get arrested and ask for work furlough?

R19=real estate agent/landlord. Hon, don’t you get it? The wasting money on pseudo- middle class wealth markers while struggling is what’s depressing.

Then rent or buy a clean simple place. I know an ageing perfume spritzer who lives in a humble tiny studio but its warm and secure and he can boil tea water, he can shit and shower and everything. No bugs.

Or. Or. Or. You could stop being a fucking weirdo and get two or three roommates and be super cheap with running water, cable, and a fucking toilet.

"Ooh, but I must be alone for no-one knows the depth of my feels and thoughts and stuff... plus all the impromptu jerking off"

Does anyone have actual information, rather than just casting judgement on other’s choices. But mark my words, in the next thread about poor people that squander their money you’ll cluck your thick tongues and admonish those poor white trash who never learned to live below their means and save money.

You might be better off living in an RV. I looked at cheap houses and even though they were in good neighbourhoods I suggested to the agent the owner should donate them to the fire department. Unless you are handy and know what you are getting into stay away from extreme fixer uppers.

If you get a money pit, you can donate it to the fire department for practice?!?!

Actual information comes from actual people who are living in your area who make what you make doing what you do. You ask everyone on the way to work, at work, at lunch, on the way home, and then again at the Goodwill. You ask them 1. where the cheap neighborhood is 2. who to call 3. How to get in. And you press. If they know somebody who knows somebody, you ask for permission to call them for more information.

Over 50% of my net goes towards rent. I have fucked up and had a wonderful time doing it.

Tax write off?!?!^

Tuck into a ball and rent or buy a small efficiency apartment or studio. It’s easy to find small appliances and live comfortably in almost any tiny quiet secure space as long as you have water, electricity and basic plumbing. You find compact appliances to wash your clothes, dishwashers the size of a microwave, and really good quality compact ovens, small fridges and freezers that are inexpensive. Get small but nice quality things, and train yourself to see a small apartment as a form of financial freedom. Make sure it’s secure and has some daylight, though.

OP! I have a possible solution!

OK, people in recovery have what they refer to as "half-way" houses where people live in a group setting. So, say you're sober six months, apply for one of the sober houses in your area and Chaching! You're richer and you have a rotating cast of at least five friends you swear you'll keep forever until they relapse and/or die.

no water, no electric and a falling down house in the middle of nowhere?

i foresee physical and mental health problems arising.

i see a lot of struggle to live like an almost-homeless person.

unless you were super smart, and like a Navy SEAL and hardcore survivalist, this is going to wear you down. is money reallly worth that?

Just make sure you get vents for radon if needed and that it's not going to literally collapse on you and so long as you have no expectations of how it will turn out, I don't see why not. Check for termite damage, which could be hidden in walls or behind old siding. Be wary of asbestos. You should know what level flood zone it's in (100 year flood zone, 50 year, etc.) for insurance planning.

Of course, you should be handy to take on this kind of project but if you're not precious, just make sure the roof isn't raining in and the floors won't fall out from under you, then clean, clean, clean. That will make it easier to see the true condition the materials are in. Don't get your heart set on certain materials, paint colors, etc. Just buy what people refused at home stores for a big discount and make it work. I actually love the idea of buying a dump and turning it into your own, personal castle.

r24- i lived temporarily (6mos) in mold infested rotting trailer for 6 months and developed serious illness that it has taken 2.5 years to break out of. even our dog got sick. and we had running water and electricity.

To make an effective, cheapo cleaner in bulk, get a box of Borax, baking soda and cheap dish soap. 4 parts Borax to one part Baking Soda and a 1/2 dishsoap, to 10 parts water. Make more concentrated as needed. You can even get a can of that Borax powdered hand soap to use for scrubbing. Non toxic and it will take up anything.

You should also get a spray bottle used for only cleaning (make sure it didn't have amonia based cleaner in it) and water down some bleach, so you can spray it in moldy areas and around the bathroom/bathrooms. That will give you a hint of whether or not you can clean the mold out or will need to replace sheet rock.

Ok, mold and asbestos make this a don’t. But you haven’t sworn me off of a house like the one Goldie Hawk had to live in in “Overboard”!

Maybe I can get a friendly handy man as handsome as Kurt Russell to fix up the dump by day and boom boom with me by night.

R34 1/2 [CUP] dish soap

Thanks, r34, you’re braver than me, I can’t deal with mold!

R37 If the asbestos is intact, just don't touch it until you can afford to have it removed. And bleach will take care of most mold. Just wear a mask and make sure the windows are open while you spray.

If you can make an income and fix the place up at the same time, why not?

Also, good old "Bar Keeper's Friend" is cheap and can be used as a buffing paste on hard to clean surfaces. Just scrub everything. Don't get to worried about protecting finishes, make sure you penetrate porous materials to get rid of any mold that might be in them.

"Holy Stone" your floors. You can always add a finish later.

I would even add tea tree oil to the bulk cleaner. It has amazing anti-mold properties. You want something that can penetrate wood without ruining it and tea tree oil can do that.

Look into saving up for an affordable kit home and not renovating the old place. It isn't always cost effective to do up an old place.

if you scour mold, you are making a bigger mess. the spores go everywhere. if the thing is porous in any way, mold has penetrated its structure. remove the material wholesale dressed in hazmat gear, after spraying it with a mold killer. even straight up bleach is not always sufficient. do not screw with mold. living in a moldy place "did in" my father-in-law. he was not totally well, but tipped him over into the hospital where he died from inadequate care.

R43 But kit homes always turn out more expensive a project than people realize and you have to buy the land, too. It's a good value for someone looking to build new, anyhow but I think OP is talking about an option for a poor person to have their own home, with the cost being mostly "elbow grease".

This used to be the way it was done for most people: You had to work on your home. If you wanted a bigger home, you added on later.

OP has every right to haggle about the price. Extreme fixer upper. If the extreme fixer upper was someone else's fool's gold that isn't OP's problem.

[quote] The house/trailer would be paid for(some of them are 50k or less). So all I’d pay would be taxes, right?

The majority of trailers/mobile home don't come with land and you are stuck paying lot rent forever. Same with an RV, you have to have some place to park it.

you are trying this in a rural area, yes?

many times they have a lot of places selling prefab storage sheds on the outskirts of town. they have a roof, walls and windows.

a lot of people out here buy them and turn them into offices, workshops, and temp use cabins.

you would still not have water or electricity, and unless you install insulation it would be like living with outdoor weather.

many of these are wuite lsrhe, and you can buy them on installment payments.

many are *quite large!

I’m actually not interested in rehabbing it at all. It would just be an extremely cheap place to live until I had saved all I wanted. Like living in your car without the legality/ fear, etc. I work a lot, so it would just be a place to sleep. Only problem might be reselling it, but couldn’t I just gift it or sell it for a dollar on eBay?

Look up articles on land banking as well OP.

OP, where do you leave? Are you prepared to live through summers with no a/c, or winters with no heat?

I once had a horse hung fuck bud who was a circus carny. He had a vintage two trailer like this. In off season he lived in a all season camp ground for trailers. Not a trailer park. It has utility hookup and of course a main building with showers, laundry, etc. Good times.

That's a good Idea. Buy the derelict house but don't live in a moldy "sick building" and live in the caravan.

I do live in the northeast, so yeah, I’ll need heat after all. But you could turn it down low and sleep in a sleeping bag. That’s the problem with having roommates, they’d never put up with that.

Ahh, I do believe r55 has it! Buy the house to have somewhere to park the RV, but never live in the house! You’d even have a sewer line, right?

Can you buy a cheap parcel of land and park on that or build a cabin?

R56 I have another horse hung fuck buddy who is a miserly aspie journeyman electrician. He rents a top floor - attic apartment, of little value, and installed all sorts of passive heat sinks plus insulation. He rarely turns on the heat. He bikes everywhere and eats like a bird. Rarely buys clothes but all his are mended and clean. He's a xenophobe who preaches against all immigrants except white Western Europeans and has conspiracy theories about established religions, big pharma, and banks. Voracious fucker though. This will be your future, OP, if you turn into a marginally living weirdo.

One time in college I rented the 2nd floor through through of a three story victorian home from the old lady who lived on the first floor. Well we assumed it was three floors. But then we discovered there was a 4th floor attic floor through. Surprisingly roomy, with good standing room height and then sloped ceilings. It seemed to have been abandoned for decades. I asked Mrs. Worrel if I and 2 friends in art school could use it for art studios and she said - hmmm, well why not. In fact 1 of them lived there for 9 months using my kitchen and bathroom. Rent free.

Another friend of mine is a custodian in a school and lives rent free in a beautiful apartment in the school.

An old run down property is likely to have issues with leaks, mold, vermin, etc. You might find a place w/o running water outside of city limits--old farm houses can be like this but you will need a functioning well (with potable water). Living w/o heat can freeze pipes and you can encounter freezes in places that like to think they don't have winter (most of the South). Even if you don't wabt to renovate, you're likely to need a lot of cashflow if any of the systems breakdown.

I gave an old house of mine to the local fire Dept. I received a nice tax deduction and they got to play fireman while I watched. YUM!

Why live in an extreme fixer upper when you can have a tiny house made and move it to wherever you buy land or rent land?

Anyone who tells you to buy a house and then get roommates to cover the payment is an idiot. If you need roommates, you cannot afford the house.

I live in a tiny, 400 sq ft. guest house and have for 20 years. It's depressing as fuck. I was told by the guy who came in to fix my plumbing once not to drink the water here. I don't know what he saw, he just said, don't drink it. So I get Sparkletts delivered and drink that. I do, however shower in the water and I do seem to get sick, a lot. I also have what I think is mold in my bathroom. Since it's summer, I'm overrun by cockroaches and bugs of all sorts including spiders. I have to shut my air conditioner off if I want to blow dry my hair, otherwise I blow a fuse. I have street parking and cannot park in the driveway. Most of the streets around me are 2 hr parking only during the weekdays so I have to hope I find a spot without restrictions. The only upside is the rent. I'm in Los Angeles and I pay $670 per month. The people who own the place though are talking about selling soon so I guess I'll be moving into a one bedroom for $2300 per month or so. I honestly don't think they will be able to sell though. We are in a shit, gang infested neighborhood where people just sleep on the street when they feel like it. Zillow has the property listed as 750,000 though, so who knows.

I did something similar with an apartment years ago. Why pay more, when the rents cheaper over there?

The place was crawling with thieves, they broke into my car in the underground parking three times. Smashed the glass all 3x.

I lost my job.

It took a couple of years to save up enough to get the fuck out of that downtown neighborhood.

OP

Living way below your means (like saving half of your income) means you can retire at 45 and never have to work again.

It can suck at times, but being free 20 years before your peers is awesome.

You could buy a small and inexpensive (unrenovated) efficient condo or coop apartment that’s located in a decent building...and hopefully in a safe neighborhood. It shouldn’t matter if you’ll have travel a little extra to commute, it will be yours. I do agree that if you’re not prepared to tackle many of the repairs, it may stress you out and affect other parts of your life. If buying a fixer upper is a must, then start networking to find help....day laborers at Home Depot, friends who are handy with tools, contractor friends or a FWB. Have pizza parties on the weekend as you focus on one part of the house.

But country land. But a pre-fab home. Pay to be sustainable with solar panels, heated water.

That's another fallacy: Until you pay off your house/condo/trailer whatever it isn't "yours." You're still renting, just from a bank and you have to act as your own landlord/property manager. I never understood this lie of "owning" a home. It's not necessary unless you really are financially prepared to fix shit up when things go wrong or are just looking for a tax break. Otherwise, renting is cheaper nowadays though not by much.

In my twenties I bought a dilapidated house with three suites. I fixed up the suites one at a time to rent them out and eventually moved into the five foot tall basement with a dirt floor where I lived for about a year, sleeping on my work bench and hunching over to avoid hitting my head, showering at the gym. Dug out the basement to 7.5 feet and poured a concrete floor. Worked construction during the day and at home in the evenings and weekends. My $54K house, if I still had it, would be worth about 2.5 million but I sold it years ago for around $300K. All I put into it was about twenty grand and my own work of three years. Tremendous investment for me.

OP, why don’t you buy a nice place and then sell it in a few years and make a nice profit? I bought a condominium in Manhattan, sold it in 5 years, and made about a half million.

So I'm a person who's considering buying an acre or two in the boonies, and putting a tiny house and a shed for storage on it. I mean, I'll need water, electricity, and sewage, but I'd be perfectly happy living in a small space, especially in my own bit of wild woods. I've got some money, but I'm never going to be able to afford a typical house in a good neighborhood, and besides I don't want to clean and maintain a big suburban house.

So, what's wrong with that idea? What are the pitfalls?

Dark lonely nights isolated from humanity. You will want the emotional comfort of a sturdy foundation, a solid frame, thicks walls, double paned strong windows, and perhaps a gun. Perhaps the companionship of a cat or dog.

here are some great ideas:

I've done it. Bought it about five years ago, and sold it last year for a decent profit, and don't regret any of it. Mine wasn't rural, but rather urban aka sketchy as hell.

I bought it for $15,000 cash. It was 1700 hundred square feet, three bedroom, one and a half bath. Built in 1890. Very cool old Victorian row house. All electricity and pipes were new however, so I never had to deal with any of that. It had a number of other issues, but nothing that made it completely unlivable. I loved that house, and loved my neighborhood. The whole experience was overall very positive for me. The only reason I sold it was because it had very necessary repair issues that I could not do on my own, and could not get anyone to come out and do them (long story, I'll spare you the details). Sold it as is with full disclosure to a very happy buyer

I was thrilled when I bought it, but will say the reaction from others was disheartening. I'm not someone who seeks or needs approval of others, but my gawd some of the reactions I received from others the entire time I lived there was pretty awful. I was called trash more times than I can count, always "joking", of course. Questioned repeatedly by people who had no involvement, to make sure I really knew what I was getting into, some taking it to question my sanity. It was not pleasant. Especially since everything I was doing was everything I wanted to do. I was thrilled, but that doesn't matter in terms of those who want to judge you. I've lived my life in a fairly controversial manner, and been pretty blase about other people's opinions of me, but the way people reacted to me buying that house was shocking. Just an FYI as to what you might experience.

That said I would 100% do it all again.

The idea of a tiny house is a nice option. If it were me, I might go with that. It's amazing how every bit of space is used, very cleverly, for all of your needs... plumbing, kitchen, heat, ac. Some of the kitchens and bathrooms are pretty close to full sized, with the appliances. You have all comforts without worrying about asbestos, no plumbing, mold, no heat or cooling. Depending on what materials and amenities you choose, they are pretty affordable. You can have a nice basic one, and be comfortable. OP, you sound like you want a relic to work on, so this may not be what you want. Anyway, many posts on here have good advice. Good luck in your decision.

Oh no hon, no work. I just want a place to crash rent free until my ship comes in. It would be nice to sell for profit, but I’m not handy, and I want all my money to go into savings. I would buy the whole thing, no mortgage. The only problem would be selling it again to someone else. Are taxes cheaper than monthly rent? Sorry, I’m a clueless millennial!

The only way to make a profit on selling a tumbledown shack that no sane person would live in, would be if the land itself gained in value during your residence.

Of course if the land DID gain in value during your residence, if the nearest town suddenly became a hotspot or something, a big real-estate broker would try to get your property condemned or find some other way to force you to sell.

[quote] Are taxes cheaper than monthly rent?

How would we know the taxes and monthly rent of a town/city/county you haven't disclosed?

R79, R81, I'm R77, and my taxes were $500/year the whole time I lived there., with no mortgage, no rent.

Rats, roaches, black mold, or Plague Mice in that place at least. It's a nice thought to get away from people and go be independent and all that, but after having lived in poor neighborhoods where at night you can see your neighbors through windows, moving through their houses with candles and flashlights because they have no electricity, forget it. No delivery of anything and when you're out on your own like that you're a sitting duck for disaster either through crime, lack of services, or stupid preventable mishap or chronic illness. A rat bite can make your liver fail, living with mouse droppings can give you actual plague to say nothing of hantavirus, birds nesting in the roof can seriously sicken you with their droppings even if you don't end up with asthma or cardiomyopathy like Barbara Hershey in Beaches (ok she was a lawyer but yes people often get it from working on very filthy old houses esp without proper respirators). Let's see, what other fun could await you? Oh, ringworm from animal droppings in a semi rural ground like the pic, that's sexy.

Also in a place like that, you may never be able to even get electricity or gas or whatever just because whomever lived there until it was a total dump may have left gigantic unpaid bills that you as the home owner are now obliged to clear up before ever establishing service there again. Maybe you're youngish still now, but by the time you have all that shit cleared up, you're going to be quite a bit older and hate to break it to you but things will start going wrong with your body eventually and you'll be out there on your own or with a pissed off partner who fell in love with you but now starts to hate you because they have that long-ass commute to work. Or else you both stay out there alone together and go crazy and break up anyway, because there's nothing to do, nowhere to shop, and even mail means driving into goddamn town to the PO. If the area is as shitty as the house looks, your lovely neighbors will be stealing your mail on the reg.

I've done this shit, OP, and it's no fun living in an isolated dump with a never-ending to-do list and a new emergency home situation or three cropping up each week. When you're young you think you won't ever have a heart attack or stroke or disability happen in middle age, but look around you, it does, and when it does you don't want to be 30 min-1 hr away from the nearest ER by ambulance. In a perfect world you could just take a little toolbox and a home depot catalog and clean a lot, but this place couldn't look more like a misery magnet. Hang around any older house being demolished wherever you're living now and take a deep breath when the walls are torn down--that's the shit you'll be breathing in an old fixer upper like this. I'd rent a furnished room in an old lady's house before I'd go that route again.

Thank you r82. That’s exactly the situation I’m interested in. Obviously from what r81 said, I’ll also have to do research on where taxes are dirt cheap.

R77 may have found a house that was barely livable and that he could sell for more than he paid. But that's hardly a universal experience.

I don't think you've put nearly enough thought into this story OP.

1) Your story is based upon the assumption that you can purchase a fixer upper and it will remain in the same condition the entire time you live there. The furnace that works on day one may not work on day 150. There is always the chance the house will fall out of code and you will have to move.

2) Assuming property values in your neighborhood will remain stagnant or increase is just not a safe assumption. There are neighborhoods in Baltimore and Detroit where property values have decreased.

After reading this thread I think you are better off renting. Just find a cheaper place and invest your cash. Based upon your plan you aren't risk adverse. The investment could yield as much or more than your net savings and your final return on the purchased house.

You won't be able to do this in an area that has any safe living levels. If you want to live in ghetto central with minorities killing everyone go ahead.

You would be better off finding a roach infested rental flat in an upper income neighborhood (they do exist) and work on getting rid of the bugs.

R86 - what community in the US has minorities killing everyone? Of course if minorities are killing everyone no one would left to kill OP once he moved in.

Has the OP said where he is thinking about doing this? (City/state?)

Your tasteful friends want to scope out the area on zillow.