Tim Kalkhof in The Cakemaker
Just saw it and it is a remarkable film. No spoilers here apart from saying if you liked Call Me By Your Name or Gods Own Country you'll want to see it.
Instead, let's talk about the amazing actor playing the lead, Tim Kalkhof. Born in Heidelberg in 1987, most if not all his previous work has been in Germany. The director auditioned 20 actors and watched 100 demo tapes before settling on Kalkhof as the shy, gay Berlin baker who falls in love with a married Israeli man (who then dies, setting up the rest of the movie) and Kalkhof is superb in the part.
"His hobbies include weight training, boxing, kickboxing and rugby." Easy on the eyes, too.
Google (and IMDB and the translation of his German Wikipedia entry and the film's reviews) say little or nothing about him.
What does the DL know?
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 111 | March 31, 2019 12:25 AM
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I didn't like either of them.
by Anonymous | reply 1 | July 6, 2018 8:19 PM
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Seems like most of the story is about the German and his relationship with the widow of his deceased lover. Get a bit of a Hammam (Turkish Bath) vibe which was directed by Ferzan Ozpetek (one of the greatest foreign filmakers imo).
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 2 | July 6, 2018 8:34 PM
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The trailer is misleading. I saw it at the Quad this evening. It is a quietly intense, brilliantly done move about love and wanting those we have lost to come back in anyway.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | July 20, 2018 4:15 AM
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I was baffled by the end, and what the point was of much of the action, and my German friend, who saw it with me at the Quad, said, "All the young Germans are existentialists these days."
The movie made lots more sense at that point.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | July 20, 2018 4:23 AM
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Are they “frotting” in that pic?
by Anonymous | reply 5 | July 20, 2018 4:30 AM
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The end wasn't baffling at all. She did exactly what Thomas and Oren did. The movie is a fable about human love, creativity and continuity.
by Anonymous | reply 6 | July 20, 2018 4:49 AM
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...perhaps about earned forgiveness, too.
R3 and R6
by Anonymous | reply 7 | July 20, 2018 4:51 AM
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R4, und vat das dat mean, all jungen Germans are existentialists. I am very glad it made sense to you but to the rest of us, it is completely meaningless.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | July 20, 2018 4:54 AM
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The trailer shows he sleeps with the widow at the end ???? Ewwww. I thought the protagonist was gay.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | July 20, 2018 10:03 AM
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He does, R12. The first time they have sex is an incredible, passionate, almost primal scene.
by Anonymous | reply 13 | July 20, 2018 6:22 PM
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A very good film. Saw it in Palm Springs. It's a film that sticks with you. Bisexuality is an inconceivable mystery to me, but I'm told it's a real thing. The film to me was more about how individual the grieving process is, and what lengths a shy man with no family or close friends needs to go through to find some sort of resolution
by Anonymous | reply 14 | July 20, 2018 8:19 PM
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I saw it tonight. Loved it. Restrained, brilliant acting. Deeply moving film.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 15 | August 5, 2018 6:18 AM
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Can someone explain to me how the diner can be certified kosher, yet his first batch of cookies had to be trashed because he cooked them in the oven which made them non-kosher... according to the brother.
Wouldn't everything in the diner, including the oven, be kosher if the shop was certified?
Kosher was an important piece to this story and I guess I don't understand the rules enough to have gotten that distinction.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | August 5, 2018 8:02 AM
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I'm not Jewish, but I'm linking an answer below. Basically, if I understand it correctly, non-Jews can cook kosher foods "under supervision". Meaning, if a Jewish person is present to light the stove, etc, the likelihood is that the non-Jewish cook is going to follow all the rules of kosher cooking. There's much in Jewish rules of kosher that is mysterious to non-Jews. A kosher place needs to have multiple sets of dishes, some for use only with dairy products, others for meats. Utensils, such as knives or forks used to cut hot meat, can not be used to cut cheese or some other dairy product, nor can a fork used to eat one be used to eat the other. I think, in some instances, people even keep a third set of dishes for Passover, since grains should not be around at that time, and might "sneak in" on some plate or dish.
In the film, the baker lit the stove on his own (a no-no), and the owner also wouldn't have known if he used his own utensils, which might have cut meat at some time in the past, which, if he was cooking with milk or butter would have been non-kosher. In fact, if I recall correctly, he did bring some of his own things to the shop when he was baking the surprise pastries. Usually, only orthodox Jews are strict about kosher. Most other Jews might be that way during Passover, and occasionally at home, while not worrying too much about it when eating out in restaurants. In Israel, it's clearly a bigger deal - more Orthodox, and they have more political power there too.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 17 | August 5, 2018 10:14 AM
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Kosher? So fucking crazy yet no one says a thing. Religion. In all forms should be abandoned.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | August 5, 2018 10:25 AM
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So is the point of the film that a gay man can go bi with the right woman?
by Anonymous | reply 19 | November 16, 2018 5:31 PM
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Have you watched the movie R19?
by Anonymous | reply 20 | November 16, 2018 11:43 PM
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I watched it last night. Good film, wasn't expecting the bi twist. But the kosher subplot was tedious, I kept thinking how fucking ridiculous all those rules are.
by Anonymous | reply 21 | November 19, 2018 3:51 PM
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uh? this is almost the same exact plot of Ferzan Ozpetek's Le Fate Ignoranti. I hope he sues.
by Anonymous | reply 22 | November 19, 2018 3:57 PM
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Discovered this is now on Netflix and watched it. I saw it last year. It is such an extraordinary film, at times achingly tender and moving with beautifully subtle performances by all.
by Anonymous | reply 23 | December 10, 2018 1:41 AM
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I'm watching this now. It's very subtle and I like how economical the dialogue is and how much of the story is told through body language. I'm really enjoying it thus far. The actor who plays Oren (briefly) is hot, as is Tim and the main actress is really natural and believable. Israel has a lot of great LGBT films.
by Anonymous | reply 24 | December 10, 2018 2:29 AM
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I thought it was a really good movie. Also, I agree with R24: some of the best relatively recent gay movies have come from Israel. If you liked this, seek out "Yossi" from a few years ago.
by Anonymous | reply 25 | December 10, 2018 4:53 AM
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I don't get the ending. What's that about?
Also, all those ridiculous rules about food is absolutely the dumbest part of being an observant Jew. I wouldn't last one day with all that nonsense.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | December 10, 2018 6:35 AM
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I'm disgusted.
They should have called it "The Fruitcake Maker".
by Anonymous | reply 27 | December 10, 2018 6:43 AM
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The rules aren't that complicated, milk and dairy products or utensils used to prepare or eat them are separated (something about eating the mother and offspring), and no bottom feeders like catfish and shrimp, and definitely no pork (possible because of the prevalence of trichinosis in the past). I thought the kosher rules were highlighted to show the joy and beauty of food, preparing it, sharing it and eating it. Food is what unites and bonds them, while the kosher rules were separating and diminishing people. As the mother warned the her brother-in-law...I don't want my son to be afraid to eat.
by Anonymous | reply 28 | December 10, 2018 11:13 AM
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Watched this on Netflix, and I would not call it a "gay movie." The baker is supposedly gay, but he winds up turning into his lover's widow's lover for a short time out of, I gathered, a sense of shared grief (though the widow doesn't know his true identity).
This is just another exercise in "fluid sexuality", which to me is the latest fad among filmmakers dealing with ostensibly gay characters. I'm not aware of any films recently where hereto characters go "fluid" and take on same-sex lovers, especially if the characters are male (I don't count CMBYN as Oliver is already Bi IMO).
While I agree that the actors are all wonderful (and Kalkhof is a hunk to boot), I couldn't help but wonder how Thomas could manage to up and leave his cafe business in Berlin to go to Jerusalem for an indeterminate period - I assume he's the owner of that cafe (it's not clear at all), but if he isn't, his baking is clearly critical to the business staying open. Then when he comes back to Berlin, he has his old job back.
Another issue I had is that the relationship between Thomas and Oren is given short shrift at the beginning, so you have to take Thomas' need to go to Jerusalem on faith because the film doesn't establish the importance of that relationship well enough. Frankly, Oren comes off as a user and Thomas as a doormat. When you find out later that Oren was planning to leave his family and some to Berlin, it's a little hard to believe.
As for the ending, my thoughts are that she came to make a final peace with him or that she plans to leave Israel and do what her husband planned to do before he was killed in the accident. The first option seems credible, but the latter does not. I can't imagine she would leave her son, or bring him to Berlin.
by Anonymous | reply 29 | December 15, 2018 3:35 PM
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Between the trannies and the bi BS gay will come to be viewed as retro. No thanks. Not going to support this film.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | December 15, 2018 4:38 PM
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Have you even watched the film r30?
by Anonymous | reply 31 | December 15, 2018 5:00 PM
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Damn, R29, I'm glad I saw the movie before you gave the entire plot and plot twists away.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | December 15, 2018 5:22 PM
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R32, considering the small number of responses here (hardly any from people who haven't seen the film already) and the fact that most of the plot twists which R29 describes is contained in previous posts, your complaint is off-base.
by Anonymous | reply 33 | December 16, 2018 6:23 PM
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Disgusting. The guy is not presented as a Bi man but as a gay man, yet he has sex with the widow?
by Anonymous | reply 34 | December 16, 2018 6:32 PM
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Well, as the other poster mentioned, this is all about "fluid sexuality" rather than "labels" IMO. This isn't the first film with this kind of scenario. I recall a British film called THE LAWLESS HEART where Tom Hollander plays the gay lover of a deceased restauranteur and he meets this free-spirited woman who helps him cope and then they wind up having sex. and an Italian film called HIS SECRET LIFE where a widow finds out her late husband had a secret male lover and set of friends. She seeks out the lover and at one point the two develop an attraction for each other.
It's just filmmakers trying to be edgy.
by Anonymous | reply 35 | December 16, 2018 6:45 PM
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R34 Queen with $10 sandals, flowing pants and an extra 50 pounds
by Anonymous | reply 36 | December 16, 2018 7:28 PM
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SPOILER
I don't mind the plot. I don't think the film suggests the main character is bi. He was under duress the entire time and we know what people can do anything under such condition. Not to mention he grew up without parents and his only relative, his grandma, died two years ago. For his entire life he's been lonely and we know what losing another one could mean to his state of mind. The film has several shots which tell us that he still craves men's company which he never follows through. He went straight into labor to suppress the urge and his fixation to his ex also doesn't help. The movie even spells out for us that he only needs three things in life: his apartment, his job and his ex.
by Anonymous | reply 37 | December 19, 2018 4:51 PM
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Thoughtful and nuanced post r37
by Anonymous | reply 38 | December 19, 2018 5:09 PM
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I agree with R37. My take on it was that he obsessively wanted to immerse himself in the life of his ex in order to cope with his loss, and that it led to him basically inhabiting the ex's persona, including the relationship with his wife and kid.
by Anonymous | reply 39 | December 19, 2018 5:16 PM
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The trailer pretty much tells what’s going to happen.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 40 | December 19, 2018 5:20 PM
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[quote]He went straight into labor
Boy or girl?
by Anonymous | reply 41 | December 19, 2018 5:37 PM
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[quote]He went straight into labor
Pics please.
by Anonymous | reply 42 | December 19, 2018 5:40 PM
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Is there MALE frontal nudity?
by Anonymous | reply 43 | December 19, 2018 5:43 PM
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One of my favorite movies of the year. An excellent character study with the tension on a low simmer (because you know the hammer is going to drop at some point and the gig will be up for Thomas, but you don't know just when -- and when it does Kalkhof rivals Viola Davis in crying).
Pro tip: Find the movie on DVD (I got it from Netflix). The subtitles for the Netflix streaming version are for the deaf ("Gentle piano music playing," "Thunder," etc. along with the subtitled dialog); the DVD just has the subtitled dialog without the sound cues.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | December 19, 2018 5:57 PM
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R43, there's no frontal nudity but you do see Kalkhof's bubble butt in one scene.
R37, I liked your post and wonder what you make of the ending.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | December 19, 2018 6:00 PM
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R45 I think he cried his heart out for the last time and moved on. The wife was worried so she checked on him and knowing he seemed to be doing fine she let him go. She probably understood that all the things he did for her were actually not because of her but her husband.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | December 19, 2018 6:09 PM
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R37, you really don't sound bright. What's your level of education?
by Anonymous | reply 47 | December 19, 2018 11:56 PM
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Frontal briefly as he gets out of the shower when the brother-in-law arrivers.
by Anonymous | reply 48 | December 19, 2018 11:57 PM
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R47: this pretentious cunt again 🙄
by Anonymous | reply 49 | December 20, 2018 12:00 AM
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R37, the dead guy wasn't his ex, since they didn't break up...
by Anonymous | reply 50 | December 20, 2018 6:01 AM
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Nice photo from the film with Kalkhof on top of his character's male lover.
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 51 | December 22, 2018 10:18 PM
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Sorry, that link didn't work. If you Google "Tim Kalkhof Cakemaker" and scroll down a little, you'll see it.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | December 22, 2018 10:19 PM
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Just watched it, thought it was honest, moving and very sad at times. Yes, the ending is a bit open to interpretation, and yes, what at first seems to be a "gay" film becomes a film about love and loss and loneliness.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | December 24, 2018 4:46 AM
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Definitely worth watching. Touching.
by Anonymous | reply 56 | January 8, 2019 12:17 AM
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Nice film. Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead. The Israeli guy was hot.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | January 8, 2019 4:06 AM
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I'd like to see Tim K in the next season of Babylon Berlin, danke.
by Anonymous | reply 58 | January 8, 2019 8:13 PM
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Agreed, R57. Nice looking but not in gay gym level shape. And the guy playing the Israeli was definitely hot.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | January 8, 2019 10:59 PM
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The German asks the Israeli guy about the Israeli guy's sex with his wife. He's never really experienced intimacy except for growing up with his grandmother. It's really about teaching and learning, and experiencing and, yes, there is living through someone else. I like that the Israeli guy's mother clearly knows more than she says--it was one of many subtle touches to the film. Given that it's in 3 languages (well, mostly two), the dialogue is quite economical and sometimes almost incidental to the story telling. The plot is preposterous on its face, but so beautifually acted and directed that it doesn't matter.
by Anonymous | reply 60 | January 9, 2019 2:16 AM
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[quote]the dead guy wasn't his ex, since they didn't break up...
Well, they ain't together, are they?
by Anonymous | reply 61 | January 9, 2019 2:37 AM
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Anyone watching this on Netflix?
by Anonymous | reply 62 | January 12, 2019 6:33 PM
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[quote] Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead.
Otherwise you'd have posters being outraged abouthow unbelievable it is for a cakemaker to look like a fitness model with shredded abs.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | January 12, 2019 6:42 PM
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I know it's fiction, but when I try to picture any of the wedding cake makers I've met as the heros of a sexy-tragic romance, I laugh.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | January 12, 2019 6:54 PM
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Well, it does seem like being a baker would be a good job for an introvert raised by his grandmother.
by Anonymous | reply 65 | January 12, 2019 9:51 PM
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watched this tonight. I liked it! It was a slow but engaging film which is about loss and how far are we willing to go to feel close to someone who is gone. I don't think Thomas was bi, rather, his having sex with his dead lover's wife was more about trying to connect with his dead lover. If you watch it, while he's having sex with her, he is flooded with memories of his lover's visits to Berlin.
by Anonymous | reply 66 | January 20, 2019 5:25 AM
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[quote]Another issue I had is that the relationship between Thomas and Oren is given short shrift at the beginning, so you have to take Thomas' need to go to Jerusalem on faith because the film doesn't establish the importance of that relationship well enough. Frankly, Oren comes off as a user and Thomas as a doormat. When you find out later that Oren was planning to leave his family and some to Berlin, it's a little hard to believe.
I liked the film very much, but I agree with your thoughts here. If the actor who played Oren hadn't been so appealing, the character would have come off pretty badly - he's stringing along both his wife and Thomas, and is possibly still picking up men at his gym in Germany as well (the condoms in the locker). What is it about Thomas that draws Oren enough to keep this relationship going? What made Oren go from stating that he'd NEVER tell his wife about Thomas (and therefore would never leave her) to deciding he'd throw his whole life up and move to Germany to start a new life with him? Just a few short scenes, more of a glimpse into the workings of their connection was needed, but we didn't get it. The film is tremendously moving regardless, but that is definitely a shortcoming in the script.
Did anybody notice when Thomas was at Oren's mother's house and she invited him to look at Oren's room, there's a drawing of a young (tween/teens) Oren in the hallway, with payess? It took a minute for me to put that together with Oren's mother's head covering, that he must have come from a more Orthodox background. That actually explains his closetedness better.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | March 28, 2019 12:33 PM
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[quote]Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead.
Well, he [italic]is[/italic] playing a baker, r57.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | March 28, 2019 12:46 PM
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So the gay character had sex with the wife only to be connected to the dead lover? He didn’t enjoy it or end up with the wife?
by Anonymous | reply 71 | March 28, 2019 1:01 PM
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We don't know who he ended up with.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | March 28, 2019 1:03 PM
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Is not a gay film. It's more a film about sexual fluidity.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | March 28, 2019 1:06 PM
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[quote]Kosher? So fucking crazy yet no one says a thing.
Actually, if you review some of the requirements closely, it makes perfect sense from a time when people lived in a desert without refrigeration and no knowledge of bacteria and food borne illnesses.
In addition, it would prevent a lot of the cross contamination that occurs even today.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | March 28, 2019 1:44 PM
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The only thing I liked about this film is that it reinforced my determination to never eat cake or other carbs again because that guy is definitely fat.
by Anonymous | reply 76 | March 28, 2019 2:03 PM
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Can someone clear somethings up before I watch the movie? So is the Thomas character still gay as in not being attracted to the wife or did he start being attracted to her? And if the former how was he able to have sex with her and did he enjoy it? That plot is a little weird to me and would probably affect my enjoyment of the film.
by Anonymous | reply 77 | March 28, 2019 2:18 PM
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R77, I would not describe Thomas as bisexual. I think he's a gay man. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that he is attracted to women in general, or will be in the future. His relationship with Oren's wife is predicated on the fact that she's the wife of the man he loved, and being with her, having sex with her, is a form of communion with HIM, being with him through her...mourning him along with her. He does care about her but if she weren't Oren's widow, I can't imagine him being involved with her sexually. He's heartbroken, lonely and isolated, and effectively taking over Oren's place in her life and in the family, surrounding himself with what Oren surrounded himself with, is the closest he can get to being with him again.
by Anonymous | reply 79 | March 28, 2019 4:23 PM
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R79 oh okay I was thinking it was going to be some weird conversion thing where he realized he was attracted to the wife and wanted to be with her etc.
by Anonymous | reply 80 | March 28, 2019 6:42 PM
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He is Bisexual leaning on men, but make no mistake he is not gay.
by Anonymous | reply 81 | March 28, 2019 6:46 PM
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The real ambiguity comes at the end of the film (which I can't disclose for those who haven't seen it). Bottom line, the message of the film seems to be that relationships and sexual desire are not as black and white as the labels we prefer to slap on people. If I were to give the characters Thomas and Oren labels, I'd describe Oren as fully bisexual, and Thomas as 90% gay with a little smidge of bisexuality.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | March 28, 2019 6:49 PM
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I ain't gonna fuck a woman to mourn my dead lover. Nuh uh.
by Anonymous | reply 83 | March 28, 2019 6:51 PM
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I guess the real question is how did Thomas havesex with the wife? If he was turned on by her then he’s bi but if she was thinking about Oren or some other guys then maybe he’s just gay.
by Anonymous | reply 84 | March 28, 2019 7:02 PM
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Cake Maker? Looks like they’re working on the cream filling.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | March 28, 2019 7:03 PM
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R82 might as well spoil it because most of us talking about it here have probably already seen or or never planning to.
by Anonymous | reply 86 | March 28, 2019 7:05 PM
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OK - Spoiler alert:
After the harrowing climax of the movie, when Thomas' deception has been found out by the wife, and he is beaten, sobbing, by the wife's brother and forced to leave Israel , months pass. In the final scenes, first the wife is shown in her restaurant in Israel, serving the very popular and delicious cakes Thomas taught her to make, explaining to a customer that while she doesn't have a kosher certificate, everything in the restaurant has been cooked using Kosher methods. Next she is shown in Germany holding an address. She is seen standing in front of the bakery where Thomas is working looking at him baking through the window. He doesn't see her. We are left wondering if she is going to try to reconnect with him, if she is also mourning the loss of her relationship with him as well as with her husband, if she has accepted the bisexuality of her husband and more or less forgiven him, or if she is merely satisfying her curiosity about how Thomas lives, just as he did when he came to Israel to look up the relatives of his dead lover.
by Anonymous | reply 87 | March 28, 2019 8:08 PM
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Did Thomas and the girl sleep together only once and was it like an actual relationship or just one sided from the wife?
by Anonymous | reply 88 | March 28, 2019 8:34 PM
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Just saw it and I’m still a little confused about the relationship between Thomas and Anat. So Thomas is not into Anat at all and only able to be with her when thinking of Oren? And it’s Anat who’s pushing for the sexual relationship?
I guess my confusion comes from reading interviews with the writer/director. He says definition is not important and talks about stepping out of them which makes me think Thomas is supposed to be attracted to Anat?
by Anonymous | reply 90 | March 28, 2019 9:28 PM
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I don’t understand why Anat and Thomas even had sex. Like what did it add to the story that it needed to be included? If anything it lead to confusion because there’s no definitive answer. Like if during it Thomas was thinking about Oren then we could have the answer that he only did it to get closer to Oren. Or the opposite and have him thinking about her or something showing that he’s into her.
Reading some interviews around 2017 from the director he seemed to have some issues identifying as gay. He said even though he wasn’t attracted to women there could be circumstances where he could want to sleep with one. Plus the death of Oren is based on the death of a friend the director knew. It was kinda implied that he was involved with the married man from what I read. Plus this was written like 8 years ago so that could be why it was added because the director saw Thomas as a stand in.
by Anonymous | reply 91 | March 28, 2019 10:45 PM
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[quote]I don’t understand why Anat and Thomas even had sex.
They did it so we would think he was stupid.
by Anonymous | reply 92 | March 28, 2019 11:05 PM
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R92 can you explain more?
by Anonymous | reply 93 | March 28, 2019 11:08 PM
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No, r93. Watch the movie. I've pretty much forgotten it.
by Anonymous | reply 94 | March 28, 2019 11:12 PM
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The director said
“Under the right circumstances, or under the influence of drugs, a gay man can have sex with a woman and a lesbian with a man,”
So I’m guessing his grief and wanting to be closer to his boyfriend was the circumstance
Offsite Linkby Anonymous | reply 95 | March 28, 2019 11:32 PM
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Sounds like a self-loathing gay filmmaker who wants to jump on the fluidity bandwagon and used it as a marketing angle. Also, Israel is experiencing a right wing resurgence with the growth of the ultra-orthodox and the slow erosion of its secular state - heteronormativity uber alles. The Times of Israel spin is clear "identity is half-baked" - even gay jewish boys are expected to marry a woman or at least sire a child with one...
by Anonymous | reply 96 | March 29, 2019 2:47 AM
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Not just self-loathing but a shallow sappy naive romanticism - "love" can conquer and overcome politics, culture, even ones very basic nature! Love is sure one hell of a drug...and this is second hand displaced love borne out of grief but still magical apparently. Meh...
by Anonymous | reply 97 | March 29, 2019 2:58 AM
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R96 yeah because why even have Thomas and Anat be together? I think he just saw a female and a male character and was like let’s make them have sex because that’s what’s usually expected to happen. Why can’t they just be platonic? It’s not like there sex scenes added to the plot or served as a plot point for a callback.
by Anonymous | reply 98 | March 29, 2019 4:04 AM
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The director also said while he will have more gay characters in his films he doesn’t see himself making more “gay” centered because he doesn’t want to box himself in. So this is the only way to make a gay film to him? Yeah cause it’s not like gay people can be interesting or be doctors, astronauts, lawyers, explorers. Or be leads in romances, horrors, Dramas, comedies.
by Anonymous | reply 99 | March 29, 2019 5:42 AM
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Was he ever stated to be gay in the story?
by Anonymous | reply 100 | March 29, 2019 5:17 PM
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What’s the authors intent on adding that subplot?
by Anonymous | reply 101 | March 29, 2019 5:54 PM
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The closet is still the norm in Israel, especially outside of Tel-aviv...Think of all those gay boys growing up in the Haredi enclaves. Israel in the 70s and 80s was on a similar progressive course like western europe but the anti-arab backlash has significantly derailed most progressive causes in the country and Netanyahu keeps aligning with far right wing religious parties to maintain his power despite his imminent indictment for corruption. I don't have much hope for Israel or the region in general....The last thing we need is myopic gay directors glorifying heteronormativity but there you have it.
by Anonymous | reply 102 | March 29, 2019 6:35 PM
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It's about need and lonliness. Getting hung up on labels is a bit behind the point. The comments here suggest posters who haven't known many people. Sexuality is sin't simple.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | March 30, 2019 3:46 AM
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R103 were only focusing on one aspect of the film on purpose. We’re talking about the sexuality aspect because that’s what is interesting to us on a gay forum. If we didn’t then this thread would have been over a while ago..
I’ve known many people and I know sex doesn’t just happen like that with a person you’re not attracted to. If the film was more clear and showed Thomas thinking about the boyfriend to be able to have sex with Anat then there wouldn’t be any confusion or discussion. There was no reason for Thomas to be aroused in that situation in fact it should have been the complete opposite. Anat practically raped him. She forced herself on him and i think took his dick out and jerked it then put it in herself. That whole scene was so weird.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | March 30, 2019 12:02 PM
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R2104: The idea that Thomas has to fit some predetermined way of behaving simply misses the point of the film. It's really meant to challengedefinition and get us thinking about events that challenge it as well.
by Anonymous | reply 105 | March 30, 2019 1:52 PM
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[QUOTE]The director said “Under the right circumstances, or under the influence of drugs, a gay man can have sex with a woman and a lesbian with a man,”
Bitch please! What the fuck are you talking about?Not even at gunpoint could I do that.
by Anonymous | reply 106 | March 30, 2019 2:03 PM
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That's because you are misogynistic and an anti-feminist, R106! Get the memo: gay men who are not open to sex with women are unenlightened, biphobic, narrow-minded and ignorant... Not to mention participating in the oppression of minorities, even though we are an oppressed minority ourselves.
Oh, you're probably a white, middle class cisgendered male. Which is to say, you're worse than Hitler.
Regarding this film, I think that the "gay man goes ex-gay after creepily inserting himself in the family life of his deceased bisexual lover" is a rather convoluted aspect of the plot designed to lend a little bit of interest to it, as it is unbelievably boring. Well, it's that and an exercise of political correctness and the absurd neo-queer "literally anything is valid and if you don't desire to make it a part of your life, you're evil" pseudo-ideological discourse.
by Anonymous | reply 107 | March 30, 2019 2:51 PM
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R105 as I said before it’s not about the point of the film. We’re just picking a subplot from it to talk about it and speculate. And challenging definition is what we’re talking about anyway. How far can one go to challenge a definition that they end up not even being what they were defined as. Like what was the whole point of making Thomas gay and have him sleeping with the wife even if he was technically coerced into it?
by Anonymous | reply 108 | March 30, 2019 3:19 PM
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R105 so that was to display that sexuality is fluid and that circumstance can make someone feel attracted to someone they wouldn’t otherwise?
by Anonymous | reply 109 | March 30, 2019 8:29 PM
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It is good. You'd never see a movie like this from the U.S.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | March 30, 2019 10:00 PM
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R109 don’t think our real world rules apply to the film. I take it as Thomas is just able to have sex with her and sex in this film doesn’t hinge on attraction . Anat basically raped him and just took his dick out gave it a few pumps put it in and a few seconds later they both orgasmed. That’s just not how sex works at least in the real world. Also was Oren’s sexuality specifically mentioned?
by Anonymous | reply 111 | March 31, 2019 12:25 AM
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