Tim Kalkhof in The Cakemaker

I didn't like either of them.

Seems like most of the story is about the German and his relationship with the widow of his deceased lover. Get a bit of a Hammam (Turkish Bath) vibe which was directed by Ferzan Ozpetek (one of the greatest foreign filmakers imo).

The trailer is misleading. I saw it at the Quad this evening. It is a quietly intense, brilliantly done move about love and wanting those we have lost to come back in anyway.

I was baffled by the end, and what the point was of much of the action, and my German friend, who saw it with me at the Quad, said, "All the young Germans are existentialists these days."

The movie made lots more sense at that point.

Are they “frotting” in that pic?

The end wasn't baffling at all. She did exactly what Thomas and Oren did. The movie is a fable about human love, creativity and continuity.

...perhaps about earned forgiveness, too.

R3 and R6

Agreed.

R4, und vat das dat mean, all jungen Germans are existentialists. I am very glad it made sense to you but to the rest of us, it is completely meaningless.

....

I can't wait to see it.

The trailer shows he sleeps with the widow at the end ???? Ewwww. I thought the protagonist was gay.

He does, R12. The first time they have sex is an incredible, passionate, almost primal scene.

A very good film. Saw it in Palm Springs. It's a film that sticks with you. Bisexuality is an inconceivable mystery to me, but I'm told it's a real thing. The film to me was more about how individual the grieving process is, and what lengths a shy man with no family or close friends needs to go through to find some sort of resolution

I saw it tonight. Loved it. Restrained, brilliant acting. Deeply moving film.

Can someone explain to me how the diner can be certified kosher, yet his first batch of cookies had to be trashed because he cooked them in the oven which made them non-kosher... according to the brother.

Wouldn't everything in the diner, including the oven, be kosher if the shop was certified?

Kosher was an important piece to this story and I guess I don't understand the rules enough to have gotten that distinction.

I'm not Jewish, but I'm linking an answer below. Basically, if I understand it correctly, non-Jews can cook kosher foods "under supervision". Meaning, if a Jewish person is present to light the stove, etc, the likelihood is that the non-Jewish cook is going to follow all the rules of kosher cooking. There's much in Jewish rules of kosher that is mysterious to non-Jews. A kosher place needs to have multiple sets of dishes, some for use only with dairy products, others for meats. Utensils, such as knives or forks used to cut hot meat, can not be used to cut cheese or some other dairy product, nor can a fork used to eat one be used to eat the other. I think, in some instances, people even keep a third set of dishes for Passover, since grains should not be around at that time, and might "sneak in" on some plate or dish.

In the film, the baker lit the stove on his own (a no-no), and the owner also wouldn't have known if he used his own utensils, which might have cut meat at some time in the past, which, if he was cooking with milk or butter would have been non-kosher. In fact, if I recall correctly, he did bring some of his own things to the shop when he was baking the surprise pastries. Usually, only orthodox Jews are strict about kosher. Most other Jews might be that way during Passover, and occasionally at home, while not worrying too much about it when eating out in restaurants. In Israel, it's clearly a bigger deal - more Orthodox, and they have more political power there too.

Kosher? So fucking crazy yet no one says a thing. Religion. In all forms should be abandoned.

So is the point of the film that a gay man can go bi with the right woman?

Have you watched the movie R19?

I watched it last night. Good film, wasn't expecting the bi twist. But the kosher subplot was tedious, I kept thinking how fucking ridiculous all those rules are.

uh? this is almost the same exact plot of Ferzan Ozpetek's Le Fate Ignoranti. I hope he sues.

Discovered this is now on Netflix and watched it. I saw it last year. It is such an extraordinary film, at times achingly tender and moving with beautifully subtle performances by all.

I'm watching this now. It's very subtle and I like how economical the dialogue is and how much of the story is told through body language. I'm really enjoying it thus far. The actor who plays Oren (briefly) is hot, as is Tim and the main actress is really natural and believable. Israel has a lot of great LGBT films.

I thought it was a really good movie. Also, I agree with R24: some of the best relatively recent gay movies have come from Israel. If you liked this, seek out "Yossi" from a few years ago.

I don't get the ending. What's that about?

Also, all those ridiculous rules about food is absolutely the dumbest part of being an observant Jew. I wouldn't last one day with all that nonsense.

I'm disgusted.

They should have called it "The Fruitcake Maker".

The rules aren't that complicated, milk and dairy products or utensils used to prepare or eat them are separated (something about eating the mother and offspring), and no bottom feeders like catfish and shrimp, and definitely no pork (possible because of the prevalence of trichinosis in the past). I thought the kosher rules were highlighted to show the joy and beauty of food, preparing it, sharing it and eating it. Food is what unites and bonds them, while the kosher rules were separating and diminishing people. As the mother warned the her brother-in-law...I don't want my son to be afraid to eat.

Watched this on Netflix, and I would not call it a "gay movie." The baker is supposedly gay, but he winds up turning into his lover's widow's lover for a short time out of, I gathered, a sense of shared grief (though the widow doesn't know his true identity).

This is just another exercise in "fluid sexuality", which to me is the latest fad among filmmakers dealing with ostensibly gay characters. I'm not aware of any films recently where hereto characters go "fluid" and take on same-sex lovers, especially if the characters are male (I don't count CMBYN as Oliver is already Bi IMO).

While I agree that the actors are all wonderful (and Kalkhof is a hunk to boot), I couldn't help but wonder how Thomas could manage to up and leave his cafe business in Berlin to go to Jerusalem for an indeterminate period - I assume he's the owner of that cafe (it's not clear at all), but if he isn't, his baking is clearly critical to the business staying open. Then when he comes back to Berlin, he has his old job back.

Another issue I had is that the relationship between Thomas and Oren is given short shrift at the beginning, so you have to take Thomas' need to go to Jerusalem on faith because the film doesn't establish the importance of that relationship well enough. Frankly, Oren comes off as a user and Thomas as a doormat. When you find out later that Oren was planning to leave his family and some to Berlin, it's a little hard to believe.

As for the ending, my thoughts are that she came to make a final peace with him or that she plans to leave Israel and do what her husband planned to do before he was killed in the accident. The first option seems credible, but the latter does not. I can't imagine she would leave her son, or bring him to Berlin.

Between the trannies and the bi BS gay will come to be viewed as retro. No thanks. Not going to support this film.

Have you even watched the film r30?

Damn, R29, I'm glad I saw the movie before you gave the entire plot and plot twists away.

R32, considering the small number of responses here (hardly any from people who haven't seen the film already) and the fact that most of the plot twists which R29 describes is contained in previous posts, your complaint is off-base.

Disgusting. The guy is not presented as a Bi man but as a gay man, yet he has sex with the widow?

Well, as the other poster mentioned, this is all about "fluid sexuality" rather than "labels" IMO. This isn't the first film with this kind of scenario. I recall a British film called THE LAWLESS HEART where Tom Hollander plays the gay lover of a deceased restauranteur and he meets this free-spirited woman who helps him cope and then they wind up having sex. and an Italian film called HIS SECRET LIFE where a widow finds out her late husband had a secret male lover and set of friends. She seeks out the lover and at one point the two develop an attraction for each other.

It's just filmmakers trying to be edgy.

R34 Queen with $10 sandals, flowing pants and an extra 50 pounds

SPOILER

I don't mind the plot. I don't think the film suggests the main character is bi. He was under duress the entire time and we know what people can do anything under such condition. Not to mention he grew up without parents and his only relative, his grandma, died two years ago. For his entire life he's been lonely and we know what losing another one could mean to his state of mind. The film has several shots which tell us that he still craves men's company which he never follows through. He went straight into labor to suppress the urge and his fixation to his ex also doesn't help. The movie even spells out for us that he only needs three things in life: his apartment, his job and his ex.

Thoughtful and nuanced post r37

I agree with R37. My take on it was that he obsessively wanted to immerse himself in the life of his ex in order to cope with his loss, and that it led to him basically inhabiting the ex's persona, including the relationship with his wife and kid.

The trailer pretty much tells what’s going to happen.

[quote]He went straight into labor

Boy or girl?

[quote]He went straight into labor

Pics please.

Is there MALE frontal nudity?

One of my favorite movies of the year. An excellent character study with the tension on a low simmer (because you know the hammer is going to drop at some point and the gig will be up for Thomas, but you don't know just when -- and when it does Kalkhof rivals Viola Davis in crying).

Pro tip: Find the movie on DVD (I got it from Netflix). The subtitles for the Netflix streaming version are for the deaf ("Gentle piano music playing," "Thunder," etc. along with the subtitled dialog); the DVD just has the subtitled dialog without the sound cues.

R43, there's no frontal nudity but you do see Kalkhof's bubble butt in one scene.

R37, I liked your post and wonder what you make of the ending.

R45 I think he cried his heart out for the last time and moved on. The wife was worried so she checked on him and knowing he seemed to be doing fine she let him go. She probably understood that all the things he did for her were actually not because of her but her husband.

R37, you really don't sound bright. What's your level of education?

Frontal briefly as he gets out of the shower when the brother-in-law arrivers.

R47: this pretentious cunt again 🙄

R37, the dead guy wasn't his ex, since they didn't break up...

Nice photo from the film with Kalkhof on top of his character's male lover.

Sorry, that link didn't work. If you Google "Tim Kalkhof Cakemaker" and scroll down a little, you'll see it.

Is this it r52?

Yes.

Just watched it, thought it was honest, moving and very sad at times. Yes, the ending is a bit open to interpretation, and yes, what at first seems to be a "gay" film becomes a film about love and loss and loneliness.

Definitely worth watching. Touching.

Nice film. Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead. The Israeli guy was hot.

I'd like to see Tim K in the next season of Babylon Berlin, danke.

Agreed, R57. Nice looking but not in gay gym level shape. And the guy playing the Israeli was definitely hot.

The German asks the Israeli guy about the Israeli guy's sex with his wife. He's never really experienced intimacy except for growing up with his grandmother. It's really about teaching and learning, and experiencing and, yes, there is living through someone else. I like that the Israeli guy's mother clearly knows more than she says--it was one of many subtle touches to the film. Given that it's in 3 languages (well, mostly two), the dialogue is quite economical and sometimes almost incidental to the story telling. The plot is preposterous on its face, but so beautifually acted and directed that it doesn't matter.

[quote]the dead guy wasn't his ex, since they didn't break up...

Well, they ain't together, are they?

Anyone watching this on Netflix?

[quote] Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead.

Otherwise you'd have posters being outraged abouthow unbelievable it is for a cakemaker to look like a fitness model with shredded abs.

I know it's fiction, but when I try to picture any of the wedding cake makers I've met as the heros of a sexy-tragic romance, I laugh.

Well, it does seem like being a baker would be a good job for an introvert raised by his grandmother.

watched this tonight. I liked it! It was a slow but engaging film which is about loss and how far are we willing to go to feel close to someone who is gone. I don't think Thomas was bi, rather, his having sex with his dead lover's wife was more about trying to connect with his dead lover. If you watch it, while he's having sex with her, he is flooded with memories of his lover's visits to Berlin.

They had me at cake.

Fattie ^

[quote]Another issue I had is that the relationship between Thomas and Oren is given short shrift at the beginning, so you have to take Thomas' need to go to Jerusalem on faith because the film doesn't establish the importance of that relationship well enough. Frankly, Oren comes off as a user and Thomas as a doormat. When you find out later that Oren was planning to leave his family and some to Berlin, it's a little hard to believe.

I liked the film very much, but I agree with your thoughts here. If the actor who played Oren hadn't been so appealing, the character would have come off pretty badly - he's stringing along both his wife and Thomas, and is possibly still picking up men at his gym in Germany as well (the condoms in the locker). What is it about Thomas that draws Oren enough to keep this relationship going? What made Oren go from stating that he'd NEVER tell his wife about Thomas (and therefore would never leave her) to deciding he'd throw his whole life up and move to Germany to start a new life with him? Just a few short scenes, more of a glimpse into the workings of their connection was needed, but we didn't get it. The film is tremendously moving regardless, but that is definitely a shortcoming in the script.

Did anybody notice when Thomas was at Oren's mother's house and she invited him to look at Oren's room, there's a drawing of a young (tween/teens) Oren in the hallway, with payess? It took a minute for me to put that together with Oren's mother's head covering, that he must have come from a more Orthodox background. That actually explains his closetedness better.

[quote]Nice that they didn’t have some buffed, six-pack guy play the lead, but an average looking guy, with a few extra pounds, play the lead.

Well, he [italic]is[/italic] playing a baker, r57.

So the gay character had sex with the wife only to be connected to the dead lover? He didn’t enjoy it or end up with the wife?

We don't know who he ended up with.

Is not a gay film. It's more a film about sexual fluidity.

[quote]Kosher? So fucking crazy yet no one says a thing.

Actually, if you review some of the requirements closely, it makes perfect sense from a time when people lived in a desert without refrigeration and no knowledge of bacteria and food borne illnesses.

In addition, it would prevent a lot of the cross contamination that occurs even today.

Oh so he’s bisexual?

The only thing I liked about this film is that it reinforced my determination to never eat cake or other carbs again because that guy is definitely fat.

Can someone clear somethings up before I watch the movie? So is the Thomas character still gay as in not being attracted to the wife or did he start being attracted to her? And if the former how was he able to have sex with her and did he enjoy it? That plot is a little weird to me and would probably affect my enjoyment of the film.

Quite big tits.

R77, I would not describe Thomas as bisexual. I think he's a gay man. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that he is attracted to women in general, or will be in the future. His relationship with Oren's wife is predicated on the fact that she's the wife of the man he loved, and being with her, having sex with her, is a form of communion with HIM, being with him through her...mourning him along with her. He does care about her but if she weren't Oren's widow, I can't imagine him being involved with her sexually. He's heartbroken, lonely and isolated, and effectively taking over Oren's place in her life and in the family, surrounding himself with what Oren surrounded himself with, is the closest he can get to being with him again.

R79 oh okay I was thinking it was going to be some weird conversion thing where he realized he was attracted to the wife and wanted to be with her etc.

He is Bisexual leaning on men, but make no mistake he is not gay.

The real ambiguity comes at the end of the film (which I can't disclose for those who haven't seen it). Bottom line, the message of the film seems to be that relationships and sexual desire are not as black and white as the labels we prefer to slap on people. If I were to give the characters Thomas and Oren labels, I'd describe Oren as fully bisexual, and Thomas as 90% gay with a little smidge of bisexuality.

I ain't gonna fuck a woman to mourn my dead lover. Nuh uh.

I guess the real question is how did Thomas havesex with the wife? If he was turned on by her then he’s bi but if she was thinking about Oren or some other guys then maybe he’s just gay.

Cake Maker? Looks like they’re working on the cream filling.

R82 might as well spoil it because most of us talking about it here have probably already seen or or never planning to.

OK - Spoiler alert:

After the harrowing climax of the movie, when Thomas' deception has been found out by the wife, and he is beaten, sobbing, by the wife's brother and forced to leave Israel , months pass. In the final scenes, first the wife is shown in her restaurant in Israel, serving the very popular and delicious cakes Thomas taught her to make, explaining to a customer that while she doesn't have a kosher certificate, everything in the restaurant has been cooked using Kosher methods. Next she is shown in Germany holding an address. She is seen standing in front of the bakery where Thomas is working looking at him baking through the window. He doesn't see her. We are left wondering if she is going to try to reconnect with him, if she is also mourning the loss of her relationship with him as well as with her husband, if she has accepted the bisexuality of her husband and more or less forgiven him, or if she is merely satisfying her curiosity about how Thomas lives, just as he did when he came to Israel to look up the relatives of his dead lover.

Did Thomas and the girl sleep together only once and was it like an actual relationship or just one sided from the wife?

Cake Maker?

Cake Nasty!

Just saw it and I’m still a little confused about the relationship between Thomas and Anat. So Thomas is not into Anat at all and only able to be with her when thinking of Oren? And it’s Anat who’s pushing for the sexual relationship?

I guess my confusion comes from reading interviews with the writer/director. He says definition is not important and talks about stepping out of them which makes me think Thomas is supposed to be attracted to Anat?

I don’t understand why Anat and Thomas even had sex. Like what did it add to the story that it needed to be included? If anything it lead to confusion because there’s no definitive answer. Like if during it Thomas was thinking about Oren then we could have the answer that he only did it to get closer to Oren. Or the opposite and have him thinking about her or something showing that he’s into her.

Reading some interviews around 2017 from the director he seemed to have some issues identifying as gay. He said even though he wasn’t attracted to women there could be circumstances where he could want to sleep with one. Plus the death of Oren is based on the death of a friend the director knew. It was kinda implied that he was involved with the married man from what I read. Plus this was written like 8 years ago so that could be why it was added because the director saw Thomas as a stand in.

[quote]I don’t understand why Anat and Thomas even had sex.

They did it so we would think he was stupid.

R92 can you explain more?

No, r93. Watch the movie. I've pretty much forgotten it.

The director said

“Under the right circumstances, or under the influence of drugs, a gay man can have sex with a woman and a lesbian with a man,”

So I’m guessing his grief and wanting to be closer to his boyfriend was the circumstance

Sounds like a self-loathing gay filmmaker who wants to jump on the fluidity bandwagon and used it as a marketing angle. Also, Israel is experiencing a right wing resurgence with the growth of the ultra-orthodox and the slow erosion of its secular state - heteronormativity uber alles. The Times of Israel spin is clear "identity is half-baked" - even gay jewish boys are expected to marry a woman or at least sire a child with one...

Not just self-loathing but a shallow sappy naive romanticism - "love" can conquer and overcome politics, culture, even ones very basic nature! Love is sure one hell of a drug...and this is second hand displaced love borne out of grief but still magical apparently. Meh...

R96 yeah because why even have Thomas and Anat be together? I think he just saw a female and a male character and was like let’s make them have sex because that’s what’s usually expected to happen. Why can’t they just be platonic? It’s not like there sex scenes added to the plot or served as a plot point for a callback.

The director also said while he will have more gay characters in his films he doesn’t see himself making more “gay” centered because he doesn’t want to box himself in. So this is the only way to make a gay film to him? Yeah cause it’s not like gay people can be interesting or be doctors, astronauts, lawyers, explorers. Or be leads in romances, horrors, Dramas, comedies.

Was he ever stated to be gay in the story?

What’s the authors intent on adding that subplot?

The closet is still the norm in Israel, especially outside of Tel-aviv...Think of all those gay boys growing up in the Haredi enclaves. Israel in the 70s and 80s was on a similar progressive course like western europe but the anti-arab backlash has significantly derailed most progressive causes in the country and Netanyahu keeps aligning with far right wing religious parties to maintain his power despite his imminent indictment for corruption. I don't have much hope for Israel or the region in general....The last thing we need is myopic gay directors glorifying heteronormativity but there you have it.

It's about need and lonliness. Getting hung up on labels is a bit behind the point. The comments here suggest posters who haven't known many people. Sexuality is sin't simple.

R103 were only focusing on one aspect of the film on purpose. We’re talking about the sexuality aspect because that’s what is interesting to us on a gay forum. If we didn’t then this thread would have been over a while ago..

I’ve known many people and I know sex doesn’t just happen like that with a person you’re not attracted to. If the film was more clear and showed Thomas thinking about the boyfriend to be able to have sex with Anat then there wouldn’t be any confusion or discussion. There was no reason for Thomas to be aroused in that situation in fact it should have been the complete opposite. Anat practically raped him. She forced herself on him and i think took his dick out and jerked it then put it in herself. That whole scene was so weird.

R2104: The idea that Thomas has to fit some predetermined way of behaving simply misses the point of the film. It's really meant to challengedefinition and get us thinking about events that challenge it as well.

[QUOTE]The director said “Under the right circumstances, or under the influence of drugs, a gay man can have sex with a woman and a lesbian with a man,”

Bitch please! What the fuck are you talking about?Not even at gunpoint could I do that.

That's because you are misogynistic and an anti-feminist, R106! Get the memo: gay men who are not open to sex with women are unenlightened, biphobic, narrow-minded and ignorant... Not to mention participating in the oppression of minorities, even though we are an oppressed minority ourselves.

Oh, you're probably a white, middle class cisgendered male. Which is to say, you're worse than Hitler.

Regarding this film, I think that the "gay man goes ex-gay after creepily inserting himself in the family life of his deceased bisexual lover" is a rather convoluted aspect of the plot designed to lend a little bit of interest to it, as it is unbelievably boring. Well, it's that and an exercise of political correctness and the absurd neo-queer "literally anything is valid and if you don't desire to make it a part of your life, you're evil" pseudo-ideological discourse.

R105 as I said before it’s not about the point of the film. We’re just picking a subplot from it to talk about it and speculate. And challenging definition is what we’re talking about anyway. How far can one go to challenge a definition that they end up not even being what they were defined as. Like what was the whole point of making Thomas gay and have him sleeping with the wife even if he was technically coerced into it?

R105 so that was to display that sexuality is fluid and that circumstance can make someone feel attracted to someone they wouldn’t otherwise?

It is good. You'd never see a movie like this from the U.S.

R109 don’t think our real world rules apply to the film. I take it as Thomas is just able to have sex with her and sex in this film doesn’t hinge on attraction . Anat basically raped him and just took his dick out gave it a few pumps put it in and a few seconds later they both orgasmed. That’s just not how sex works at least in the real world. Also was Oren’s sexuality specifically mentioned?