Carolyn Bessette Kennedy

Yes. But poor John wasn’t that smart to have chosen better. Beauty was also overhyped. They remind me of this generation’s meg and harry. Is that a new pic? @R4 I haven’t seen that one before

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Class and elegance @R6

They wouldn't have survived the social media age. During their fights, he used to yell "cokehead" at her and she'd scream "fag" back at him. They were both using personal stuff as amo which is the worst sign.

It was a murder suicide. She was quite chic though for realz. Don't get his Ted Danson appeal at all.

She fucked him over and in the end he really fucked her over.

She was a psycho bitch!

I'm sorry, did I just read that someone doesn't get his appeal? What....I mean....I don't even....I can't.

He could have done soooo much better than her. I mean, come on. She was a hateful, ugga, pretentious snob.

Boring. Get lives, people.

I did scat movies with Erna!

He really could have @R16

He could be Mrs. SJP. He'd still be alive and married to that beauty.

The tabloids must have gone into mourning after that plane crash.

I've never seen the photos before and I'm fascinated by the story. More, more, more, please, from my well-informed DL colleagues!

I've been assuming that John-John was killed by the Republicans in the same spirit in which the Tsarevitch was killed by the Bolsheviks...

What happened!?

Jennifer Aniston’s bulimia jaw is frightful. She obviously worked on her eating disorder issue.

JFK married a beautiful mess. I think she was pretty. But I cannot imagine going through that drama.

I wonder what would have happened if she had gone to rehab, and they didn’t die?

C was pretty in that "Oh Blossom, you are so beautiful!' way.

I don't know why men are usually attracted to hysterical psycho women?!

“I don't know why men are usually attracted to hysterical psycho women?!”

Because most men are hysterical psychos themselves.

Her real dad was that Jewish shrink.

Shrink's kids -- where all Dad's patients get reborn..

I read that her hair was so paper thin from all of the bleaching/coloring that she wouldn't let John touch it because she was afraid it would break off.

Who are these people and why are they being discussed?

R30 Where are you getting your information from? Her father was a cabinet maker and he stepfather was an orthopedic surgeon.

John John was borderline retarded and would be fat and ruddy faced Kennedy drunk by now, on his third wife and 18th domestic abuse charge.

Did she remarry? Any recent pics?

She hasn't aged a day R35.

She was insecure and paranoid, the coke didn't help.

Apparently she was consumed with the fact that John John still spoke to Daryl Hannah and was possessive

He was insecure and paranoid, the coke didn't help. He was also a reckless braggart of very limited intelligence who physically abused his wife in public and caused Carolyn and her sister's death out of his stupidity, ineptitude and arrogance.

She was a chubby brunette teen who made herself into what he was attracted to, a skinny tall blonde like his ex Daryl. He was gorgeous but clearly enjoyed being with a woman who treats him poorly and is erratic.

She loved the gays and played with coke like everybody else in the club scene at the time. Tragic they died as they did.

He really was gorgeous. Probably one of THE BEST looking men I’ve ever seen. And I say one of the best looking men, because I have an ex that was just as good looking.

Those dudes are really rare. My ex was half Hawaiian and half Mexican. 6”3, dark hair. Just perfect. JFK Jr. was just beautiful.

I wonder what he’d look like had he still been around. Probably better looking, I’d guess.

Carolyn was very violent and used to beat up her men :

JFK Jr

Their fights frequently turned violent, and John told friends that he felt trapped in an abusive relationship. One time he had to be rushed to an emergency room for an operation to repair a severed nerve in his right wrist. He tried to dismiss the injury as the result of a stupid household accident, but his friends knew better: they were certain that Carolyn was the culprit.

Michael Bergin

“There was one time when Carolyn saw me at a bar lighting a cigarette for an ex-girlfriend,” he continued. “Carolyn came over, pushed the girl out of the way, got in my face, and screamed and yelled at me, and even drew a little blood from my face.

“I went home, and two minutes later Carolyn was at my door. I had to let her in or she would have knocked the whole building down. I had these tall, heavy religious candles, and she threw one through the window, smashing the windowpane, and another at the mirror above the fireplace mantel, which shattered. Then she knocked my television set and VCR onto the floor and jumped on my VCR and squashed it.

“I ran out of the apartment. I’m very athletic and fast, but she caught up with me, and started yelling at me, and taunting me, calling me a baby. And my adrenaline was flowing, and I turned around and pushed her away from me, and she went flying in the air and landed on the stoop of a building. That put an end to that, and we went back to my apartment.

I worked in the building where George had it's offices. Saw JFK frequently, in lobby, on elevators and he was truly handsome, but also charming and had manners and was always gracious. Everyone liked him. I feel bad that he fucked up so badly.

It's better that they're both dead.

R44 really??? I think there are a lot more deserving...

I don't understand why people consider her beautiful. She's very plain looking. And she has a big nose.

Large noses can be classical.

But not if the chick can pass for a man. In OP's picture, you can see she has a manly face. Jennifer Aniston's face looks much softer in that picture, by comparison.

Was JFK, Jr. gay? I remember hearing that he married her to appease Jackie.

And why would the Republicans have killed him? He was never going to run for office. He passed the bar by the skin of his teeth (after taking the exam as many times as you’re allowed to).

R49 Jackie was long dead by then.

R49, if you read the vanity fair article someone posted above, apparently Carolyn used to call him "fag" all the time. And this was a woman who was friends with a ton of gay men.

I've always suspected he was a 'fag' but nobody has ever come forward so sadly he probably was straight.

One of her very best friends was a designer and she promised him when she got married he would design the dress.

So she marries John Kennedy Jr stabs her dear friend in the back and gets a name designer. The dress possibly could have made the guy.

She sounds like a very arrogant privileged pain in the ass and he does come across as very dim and unhappy. What an unhappy marriage the two of them were trapped in. I mean all that fighting in public. So what was going on in the home? What a nightmare.

R49, I don't why the Republicans would want to kill him. Didn't Ann Coulter even write a few articles for George magazine? In fact, Ann Coulter was actually devastated when he died and she wrote an article about it. She compared his death to Princess Diana's, and said (I'm paraphrasing here) his death was much more tragic than that of some "bullimic princess". If SHE was supportive of JFK Jr, I doubt many republicans would feel that badly about him (in comparison to some other democrats, not to mention the rest of the Kennedy family).

R49 is an idiot, dumber than JFK Jr who passed the bar exam after failing twice.

One can sit the exam 4 times and fail and then petition to take it again.

I pick my nose.

R52, she DID use that friend to design her dress. Narciso Rodriquez was an unknown then and this dress pretty much launched his career.

"Bessette chose a simple bias-cut slip dress by her friend, the then virtually unknown designer Narciso Rodriguez, for her top-secret wedding in a candlelit chapel on Cumberland Island on September 21, 1996. It was a bold choice in its stunning simplicity."

It is kind of jarring seeing all those paparazzi pics of their fights all one after the other vs how they showed up in the papers every few months back then. I agree with the poster who said they never would have survived now with all the camera phones, social media, etc..

R53 - yes she did! I remember that piece - I guess it was before she went all cuckoo for coco puffs.

Funny tidbit - at some family gathering maybe a year or two after when Hillary was running for senate, one of the in-laws (no blood relation - from the other side) told everyone about his theory it was “the Clintons” who killed JFK Jr because he was going to run, but Hillary needed the seat for her plan to get back in the White House. That’s why Bill felt guilty and allowed the navy to keep searching for the bodies when they would have given up for anyone else - and it cost millions. 🙄 I know, some people would blame the Clintons for anything lol

Oh, R52 could have meant Carolyn's college roommate Gordon Henderson. Sorry, R52.

"Should she ask Calvin Klein, who until recently had employed her as a mid-level publicist? Should she choose her old roommate, the talented black fashion designer Gordon Henderson? Or should she turn to Narciso Rodriguez, a former Calvin Klein staffer who now worked for the Paris couturier Nino Cerruti? Carolyn knew that her choice would have major repercussions, for the designer was certain to get worldwide publicity."

[quote]She was a chubby brunette teen who made herself into what he was attracted to, a skinny tall blonde like his ex Daryl.

Nope. Her whole family was blond, including her as a teen.

The dress was perfect.

What many people, especially Americans, don’t understand is that Bessette was considered a beauty because of her simplicity. Had she piled on gobs of makeup, it would have spoiled the almost perfect canvass.

She was tall, thin, but not too thin, and had gorgeous hair. She knew that all she needed was some red lipstick, and boom, she was transformed into evening wear, just by wearing red lipstick and a simple, black dress.

You either have “it”, or you don’t. She was as rare as her husband and even more so, because plenty of women are prettier, but not memorable.

She’s not memorable because she’s dead, she’s memorable because she encapsulated all that America thought Camelot was. In this regard, she was perfect.

Sharon Stone is another beauty, but didn’t have the hair or the right kind of crazy the Caroline had.

Carolyn Bessette was a homely, shrewish coke fiend. JFK Jr could have had any woman he wanted. The fact that he married Bessette shows how foolish and weak he was.

A good of example of a woman who could be considered beautiful (not by all, but some), but never "hot."

Agree totally, R60. She had a perfect, tall, slim runway body to wear that simple, elegant wedding dress. It draped perfectly on her. Meghan Markle tried to copy her style but it didn't quite work. She's thin and poised, but not tall enough. Her dress was too bulky and it didn't lay right. She ended up looking plain--swimming in too much fabric. MM's dress reminded me of a seamstress sample--unfinished.

Bissett was elegant and patrician looking with impeccable style. She had an aura of old money. In that way, John chose his bride the same way his father did.

I get the feeling when she wasn't a psycho cokehead or cold and arrogant she was someone who when she wanted to had enormous charisma and charm and you would forgive a lot. The designer friend who she betrayed remained friends with her but I have a feeling he wasn't as upset by her death as he might have been after he got over the initial shock. Karma..

R59 I can’t even tell who she is in that picture. But she definitely didn’t always have the white blond look she later preferred. She actually favors Dorinda Medley from RHONY a bit in her youth

she’s the one in the front with her hair pulled over to her right side.

I remember the late 90’s and how weird it was to lose Versace, Diana and JFK jr so close together. Now we have celebrity deaths weekly.

R67, but none of the celebrity deaths today are cool. The ones back then actually mattered.

Bourdain matters.

The ways in which Diana and JFK, Jr. died were so incredibly dramatic and tragic and both modes seemed to symbolize something about fame and recklessness.

Whitney matters. Robin Williams mattered. Michael Jackson matters.

Diana and JFK's deaths were the result of horrible accidents. Both of them were beloved and beautiful and iconic. Young people. Diana was the most mourned woman in history.

OK, you guys are right, my bad. I guess the celebrity deaths up until the mid 2000s were just shocking because there wasn't social media coverage. Social media has taken away the mystery of the celebrity. Are there any NEW celebrities that are really that fascinating?

*more shocking

We know too much. No more mystery.

R42

Poor John @R76

Short footage of their fight at 1:20

She was very striking- great body- high maintenance probably with a bit off a coke problem on and off. I don’t think she could cope with the public life that was coming. He was off the charts gorgeous and as nice as can be. I got to know him casually working out at the same time at the NYU Cole gym!in the late 89s. He was not dumb. He was terrific and he happened to fall in love with a gorgeous mess. That’s life. Terrible tragedy but he should not have taken off in the summer haze without instrument flying capability- a fatal and careless mistake. Terrible tragedy.

Did you sell JFK jr a hankie charlie? You were always selling handkerchiefs to them Kennedys. Where was your cart located?

I can't believe they are both dead DEAD and I can't believe my Grindr pics have just hit the Internet!

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Carolyn had her legs missing when pulled out of the water, and her sister was never found.

Do you think her legs were amputated before the crash?

Do be such a fucking ghoul. JFK jr. killed Carolyn and her sister. Her family despises the Kennedys the way most evolved people do. Go cry in charlie's hankie.

The Bessette girl had some crappy luck. Imagine snagging JFK JR. Then he dives you and your sister into the ocean.

The widow brought death everywhere even from beyond the grave.

So was she seeing Michael Bergin during her relationship to John john?

According to MB yes, but her friend GH who supposedly went with her for the visit to LA to see him ,has not confirmed nor denied it. There are very few recordings of her voice that are public. She photographed beautifully in some photos and in others, meh. She set the style for NY women in the late '90s, she was a minimalist icon. And she had Jr. wrapped around her finger, most definitely.

She did John John dirty.

Yearbook photo captioned: "Nice eyes. Smile. Easy to talk to. Always screaming. Beautiful hair. Prettiest."

The reason the Republicans might have THEORETICALLY wanted the American Tsarevitch to die is because, had he wanted to, he could have successfully run as a Democratic candidate for the office of President.

She was probably a great lay.

The myth is that crazy women are great in bed, but the truth is that this only happens with the right partner. So they probably had lots of chemistry, and that’s very addictive, at first.

That sex buzz dies off pretty quickly, however. It’s not necessarily a good thing, but it’s the only thing that works once you’ve had it. You have to age to grow out of it. They were both too young, so they were nowhere near settling down and growing old with each other.

R87, she really did have crappy luck. Why were these kids so careless? I can’t believe he actually believed he was ready to fly her and her sister to a wedding. It was just plain hubris in his part.

where are you getting this information, R84?

People with borderline personality disorder are said to be notoriously great in bed. They are VERY intense in the beginning of a relationship when everything is brand new and you haven't let them down yet. They tend to worship their partners and put them on a pedestal......until they slip up, as all humans do. That's when the crazy starts. It doesn't even have to be something big. Or it can be something imagined. BPDs are very jealous. They assume they will be abandoned, so they're always looking for cheating clues. They become volatile and the partner is left confused, wondering where the amazing person they fell in love with has gone. Partners stick around in hopes of getting them back, and they often DO get them back---for short periods. Of course, the make up sex is amazing and all is well......until the next bout of crazy.

Did she get a nose job?

JFKjr knew of her drug addiction, right? Why in God's name would anyone marry an addict?

I really don't get why he married her. He had to know she was bat shit before he proposed and he couldn't have been that stupid. He could have married anybody. Imagine if he'd married Diana... they'd both probably be alive. But maybe he would have tried to fly to that wedding no matter who he was married to.

Coke-up,ugly, bitchy. The kind of bitchy that's comes from insecurity not the "born to it" kind. She was around 5'9" and pear shaped. Pretty hair, striking eyes. Looked better with darker hair imo.

:::::: i used to see her around in the east village before she married JFK,jr.

Diana? Seriously, sweetheart, rein in your fanfic.

It wasn't the Republicans who killed JFK jr., it was Bill and Hillary, clearing the path (supposedly) for her nomination by eliminating an obvious contender

Prior to meeting JFK, Jr., she dated BU hockey star John Cullen.

She had EXCELLENT taste in men, that for sure.

This chick and I would’ve been competing for the same guys had we ran in the same circles. She would have despised me because I would’ve snatched these dudes up, easily.

well, maybe if you brushed up your grammar, r104.

MB looks waaay feminine in the pic at r91. He looks like an older woman.

She was pretty. Not beautiful. In any country. Not just the US. Because she worked in fashion and married well she had access and could afford nice, expensive quality threads. She could also maintain her skin and hair sparing no expense. But aside from striking eyes she was a pretty girl who could clean up well into looking like a lady. Her arrogance and crazy probably helped her be able to portray elegance. But all those pictures of coke fueled explosions are anything but. And fuck her for "having" gay friends and then using the word fag to put down her own husband. That tells me she used gays as props to gain cache and acceptability in a largely gay industry. She seemed like a manipulative phony when you put all those facts together.

That's not Carolyn Bessette R75. You posted a picture of John with girlfriend Christina Haag.

R107 “cachet”

Both of the sisters were found R84. Doubtful the other part of your comment is true either.

The most interesting comment that I've ever heard about their marriage was that he would never have married her if Jackie had still be alive.

Kind of says it all, right there, doesn't it - about him and her.

Jfk Jr was absolutely fucking gorgeous. I once walked by him when he was stood outside of ABC Carpet in NYC in the early nineties and did a doubletake for the hotness, when I realized who it was I trotted off in embarassment.

I certainly would have.

Who would have been acceptable to Jackie?

[quote]Who would have been acceptable to Jackie?

It's a whole lot more than who would or wouldn't have been acceptable to Jackie. It's telling about his relationship with his mother, why he dated a woman like Bessette in the first place, let alone married her in particular. The type of woman Besette was - such that he knowingly dated someone his mother would not have approved of marrying. That he felt free to date and marry her only after Jackie died. His need to rebel in small ways from the life he was expected to live.

All these and much more.

His mother was still alive when he slept with Madonna though?

Unfortunately nobody needed to plot his death. He shouldn't have gone ahead with it after his wife made them so late, but he was probably too scared of her to make other arrangements.

R115, from what I have read Jackie Kennedy didn't like Madonna (not surprising) given her image. CAn someone else post something about it? I would surprised though if she didn't like Sarah Jessica Parker. She doesn't seem like the kind of woman who would dominate JFK Jr. and she'd be ok with being the dominant one in the relationship.

That should say "she would be ok with HIM being the dominant one".

He was into tall, classical, patrician blondes. He would have married a crazy girl no matter what. He liked it. It turned him on and he was into it.

Crazy in the head, crazy in bed.

As the famous saying goes, never put you dick in crazy

Daryl Hannah is the one that Jackie famously disapproved of. Daryl is a very dumb chic and on the autism spectrum as well. She had no social abilities whatsoever, let men beat her and was not only an actress but a terrible one.

you're all heart, r121. and a terrible writer.

Thanks nana.

Some eyewitness described JFK jr' body at the morgue as being bent backward like a pretzel, with his feet touching the back of his head.

Carolyn was cut off from the hips down.

Lauren Bessette's body was never even found

Source?

R115 Totally agree, I believe if John even thought about cancelling the flight when Carolyn arrived late, He was too scared to tell her that to her face.

She fucked Michael Bergin when he was at his peak. This woman LIVED!

...but not for very long.

From the Kennedy Curse book :

Jackie was a shrewd judge of character and would have seen Carolyn Bessette for what she was—a flirtatious, seductive, and psychologically unstable young woman who had set her cap for the Prince of Camelot. Jackie would have been gravely alarmed that in a marriage to such a woman, John would inevitably come to harm.

What attracted John to this ill-fated relationship?

Several explanations were making the rounds in the months before his violent death. Many of his friends told me that they suspected he had married Carolyn Bessette because he was looking for someone to take the place of his dead mother, on whom he had depended all his life.

As they pointed out, John was still as needy as the little boy who had saluted his father's coffin after the presidential assassination. And John himself admitted to his friend on the phone, "I'm attracted to strong-willed women like my mother."

But Carolyn was not just a strong-willed woman. She could be demanding, domineering, and, according to even her best friends, downright bitchy. Some people felt that John overlooked her faults because he was blinded by Carolyn's glamorous Jackie O style. In her own edgy, modern way, Carolyn was as chic as Jackie; she dressed with the simple elegance that John adored. Like the ethereal Jackie, Carolyn affected an air of mystery and unavailability, which drove the media crazy and sustained the public frenzy that John found exciting and fun. And like Jackie, Carolyn was very controlling.

Also, both were big smokers.

well, that must have been it. ^^

R124, Uncle Ted made sure the three bodies were cremated ASAP, but the Navy reportedly photographed the corpses, as required by Massachusetts law.

R132 There was a book about the crash, I read it a few years ago. It went into great detail about how the bodies were found. John was very badly cut up and badly decomposed. Carolyn had no legs and was unrecognizable and they never found her sister I think that's why they wanted them cremated and scattered the ashes into the sea.

The burial at sea is very revealing for Uber Catholics like the Kennedys.

R12 I love you. "Ted Danson appeal." Right? Helmet hair. Mouth breather facial expression. Short legs. I don't get it. His dad was handsome. His uncle Christopher Lawford was handsome, particularly on film (when young, not the old toupee wearing guy).

I started noticing that Carolyn Bessette wore pants and longer lengths a lot because she had piano shaped legs like her mom. I think she was extremely striking, huge blue eyes, full lips, good bone structure, but not basic or banal. Some edge to her look, and great hair. The torso was long with great shoulders, the legs were a little short, so she compensated. I used to love her hair when she was dating John, and didn't like when she bleached and ironed the shit out of it after they married.

Those fight pictures are old and played to death. They were taken when they were dating, and John talked about them on Howard Stern.

R124 Where do you get your nonsense. Lauren's body was found next to Carolyn's. I seriously doubt the other things you have posted are true too.

R135 Believe what you want.

I'm sure they were all in the plane, but possibly not intact. I thought I read at the time that they were all found strapped into their seat belts. It's very likely that the force of the crash could have caused the seat belt to sever their bodies at the waist; I've read about bad car crashes where that happened.

R137 "I thought I read at the time that they were all found strapped into their seat belts."

This was the Official approved reports after the crash, the truth however, was something else.

And since you purport to know the truth, r138, can you tell us how you come to know it?

I had a friend who worked as a writer for one of the morning shows at the time. They were putting together archival film, and she said, "He was so beautiful" and one of her colleagues said, "Not anymore." I heard from her (and from another friend who worked for Fox) what the condition of the bodies were and I also read the book about it. All the bodies were there. Since the plane was broken up, Carolyn's was found a ways apart from John's. Someone's torso was almost (but not quite) severed in half - think it was John's.

R140 "Someone's torso was almost (but not quite) severed in half - think it was John's."

It was Carolyn

As i said before, John' body was bent backward like a pretzel with feet touching the back of his head.

R12 - A murder suicide? With her sister in the plane, as well?

If anyone should have killed CBK, it was the pedicurist she was driving crazy as she insisted on having her toenail colour done three times before she was satisfied that it matched her dress for the wedding next day.

That's why they were late taking off and why it was twilight when they did so: depriving JFK Jr. of a horizon whose visibility was crucial to a pilot who hadn't gotten instrument training yet. He should have insisted on waiting till morning to fly. Being the arrogant prick he was, of course, he took off anyway.

There isn't a pilot in the world who didn't know instantly what had happened when the news broke, from the time of day it was and the fact that he didn't have instrument training.

So the world is better without John and Carolyn R142? But he didn't have to murder her sister too.

R61 - Cf. Harry Windsor and Meghan Markle.

Well three arrogant beautiful people who expected their luck would always hold no matter the circumstances.

Kind of like those 3 people who died recently falling 30 meters down a falls.

My boss reminds me of JFK JR. Euro in New York. Gorgeous. Family money but works hard. Is married to an ex model who he thinks his gorgeous ( she looks like a scarecrow) but she is super connected and cool like CBK. I read that Ione of JFK friends said he was afraid he swan't hip enough and she was so hip. Same deal with my boss. He thinks she's so cool and all her actress /model/dumb friends. She has him convinced that he needs her for everything and he tags along with all her celebrity friends on these stupid vacations that are all documented on Instagram.

Some men are like this - they think they need a woman like this to make them look good = superficial.

or maybe he loves her.

Some of these pictures of Carolyn make her look like a nicer looking cross between Mark Zuck and Debbie Wasserman.

At that level love has little to do with it. Marriage is a timely business transaction with benefits and perks. It was the whole point of it from the very beginning.

Am I at the point in life when I'm supposed to get married? Does he or she make me look good? Do they have the right connections? Are they fuckable for breeding purposes?

According to CB friends, Carolyn thought John was lucky to have someone like her Not the other way around, and John himself believed that. I think it's like Meghan/Harry case.

R150

So beautiful

Feminine asses are such a turn off.

R153, not fair to judge her while sweaty and kayaking for Christ's sake!

Before hair bleaching

R150 that sorta makes sense to me. No matter how rich or their family statures are it seems having celebrity ins whether artist or clothing designer or connected friends who can make these auto rich boys look like Rock stars, they think women with these capabilities are above them socially. And by socially I mean in a celebrity sense not in family pedigree. But I think John probably had more of those ins than Carolyn. But she probably made him feel different. And probably exaggerated her social position a tad.

Dear R52 and R56. Her best friend was Gordon Henderson. She should have given Gordon the job. It would have made him. Instead she went with Narciso Rodriguez whom she worked with at Calvin. She fucked Gordon over who was truly devoted to her. As a consolation prize, Gordon designed John's suit, but as he was known as a woman's wear designer, that did nothing for his career. I knew her real well. I am in the book about their marriage. Jackie would have seen right through her and forbade the marriage. Caroline hated her and feared for her brother. I'm sorry for him that he ended up with her. Because the world threw themselves at him, a bitch like Carolyn who treated him like shit was a new thing for him, and a bit of a turn on. They were living apart when they died and would have divorced had they lived.

R150 - Couldn't agree with you more. I am a Frau and it drives me nuts. My boss has this dumb ass wife who doesn't do shit and he is paying for her to hang out all over the world with her celebrity model friends. She also calls him non stop at the office wanting to talk. Their situation has always reminded me of JFK/CBK situation. My boss is awesome. gorgeous hardworking guy from an important family but I always think to myself how the fuck did you marry that scarecrow. She has zero ass or tits and has a n affected Marilyn Monroe voice and is an "artist" . Its all big act. It is s such a business transaction. She doesn't even take care of their one kid she ha s nanny and she drags this kid around the world on vacations. Prior to meeting my boss she was holed up in an apartment with a few other model wannabes. Now she is living in a 5 million dollar NYC apartment. Because she had a few photoshoots where she looked good and can say she is a model (although she hasn't done shit in about 10 years) not at all like her real self this boss thinks he has hit the lotto with her. Same as Harry same as JFK. They feel in with the in crowd and the woman has all the confidence they are lacking. Sad.

She was a social climber. If that were truly her best friend she would have honored her word. And not ever used the word fag. She was a nasty cunt based on the legacy she left behind. An insecure user who always had her eye on the prize. While no crime let's not pretend she was some tortured princess who met a sad end. No disrespect or ill will but she wound up where she put herself. Every way she conducted her life put her where was when she died. And no one deserves her demise but she herself got herself there. Toenails and all.

For me it says enough that Caroline didn't get on with her. That and that Carole Radziwill was her best friend. Billy Noonan, longtime JFK friend later turned author said that when the rest of John's circle including Caroline started getting tired of her, she then honed in on Carole as a friend and ally. She used her and Carole used her straight back. Hell she is getting PAID all these years later for being related to them.

Also, John really was a nice, sweet, humble guy. He deserved better than her.

Look at the video of the fight. John crouches to protect himself from the ass whipping he thinks he is gonna get. Most guys woudn't flinch if their gf ran at them UNLESS there was a history of her beating his ass. Michale Bergin said she was smashing glass and breaking furniture and scratching him - she was probably doing the same to John. Didn't he injure his hand in the last months and there were rumors that she did it. No wonder Caroline was tired of her shit - Note the zero photos of her with Ed and Caroline. Little wonder that Ed laid down the law when it came time to plan the funeral which Carole R didn't like at all. Caroline realized that this bitch was domestically abusing her brother

More details about your last 3 sentences r164? Most interesting stuff in this thread.

R126, yes and even if he'd managed to find a discreet and qualified older pilot to fly with them, she would have spat it about that and been such a cunt.

I don't think this Markle girl is as venomous as Carolyn. But she herself is benefiting from the union. She can probably get into any exclusive Oscar party she wants that not even Kim Kardashian could get into.

R160 Tell us more about Carolyn. How long did you know her, what did you like about her, and what did you end up disliking? I imagine you must know Gordon too. What is he up to these days? It must have hurt to hear he wasn’t doing her dress.

R168 your right. Kim can't really get into the the most exclusive high end Hollywood parties whether she's married to Kanye or not. Most big time celebrates think she's trash and cheapens their parties. Only trashy Jennifer Lawrence will have her of all A listers.

R80- ah yes- now I’m going to let loose with some more shit that will really make you twist your panties. Caroline and my younger brother knew (and know) each other quite well from prep school and then Harvard. Joe Kennedy was my brother in law’s roommate at Milton academy and spent a good deal of time at our home on Nantucket. You see R80- this is the world I come from and the reason I worked in that fancy men’s store where I sold cashmere sweaters to Mrs O was because I knew the customers via my background- that’s why I was hired. JFK Jr and I really did share a bit in common. Nan Kempner’s husband Tommy was my Dad’s partner. Yes I know them quite well too. And I can go on dropping names all night due to the circumstances I grew up in. Makes you mad, huh? Why? Some thinks it’s fun- gossip, right?

While at that fancy store I went to graduate school and embarked on a career in academic health care in which I remain and has been the much more important part of my life than my privileged up bringing and early 20s figuring out what to do- but not much interest to DL gossip. R80, you are not a very nice person- kind of an Internet stalking troll when I tell of some of my past.

R168 - I'll concede that Markle, because she has had to dissemble so much more than the self-entitled CBK, appears and perhaps is less venomous. I would rather suggest that Markle has a ruthless core that she is careful to conceal; CBK didn't have to fight for anything the way Markle did, clawing her way up from nowhere. Her ruthlessness was necessary. CBK was just a spoilt bitch with an ugly nature.

Billy Noonan was a Boston based best friend of JFK Jr/ Kennedy family. He wrote a book after the crash. He clearly didn't like Caroline's attitude and saw through her NYC fashion bullshit and saw her manipulating the hell out of John and making him feel bad for being himself. When she started attacking John verbally for this life that was thrust upon her - Billy didn't like it. Harry is the exact same - apparently crying before the wedding because of the suffering Meghan and "anyone who gets involved with him goes through at the hands of the press" per the Daily Mail.. This was pre Kardashian, the Kennedys were the the most sought after American celebrities. It was a different era. There is no way Carolyn didn't know what she was in for. What did she do? Quit working and stay home and got crazy over the attention. There were a million doors opened to her but outside of her superficial fashion career and friends she had nothing. The Kennedy family and some friends were getting sick of her attacking John . He didn't ask for the attention and was always gracious and classy. This is when per Billy, she recruited ABC era boring as fuck Carole to be her biggest ally in the whole situation. Now miss meek and mild Carole finally had a role in the family. Carole is getting paid as her career in the housewives is dependent on this connection i.e. crying oil the boat with Heather T about Carolyn on cue for the cameras and rolling out Anthony's ashes 20 years later just in time for the cameras. This is what happens when you marry trash which is what Carole R is. She even talks abut her grocery stealing Grandma in her book who used to go to the store and put raw meat in her dress. She was so fat that the clerks could not tell. Carolyn was not far behind but her mother remarried a Greenwich CT Doctor which got her out of Suffern. Carole has been very shrewd and rode that connection for all it was worth. I remember her going on Oprah to sell her back and she checked a few name brands. She has literally made a career out of it and every idiot wanted to know. her based on this connection - Clooney, Cohen Bruce Bozzi, Ralph Fienned. I know of what I speak. The thing is I have met Carole and she is very nice in person but she has been shrewd as fuck about her connection. As Aviva memorably said to Carole once: "HOW MANY OF THE KENNEDY FAMILY ARE NOW SPEAKING TO YOU" HAHAHAHAHA

That would be zero. Caroline was livid she was writing the book.

Apparently she called RFK jr to bitch about Ed during the funeral plans.

169 please see 173

I was going to the Coles gym at that time and the men in the communal shower were often gorgeous. Unfortunately I never saw John Jr. there. I would have passed out if I had seen him as It seems he was very proud of his naked self.

I did see him eating by himself a couple of times at a vegetarian buffet place behind the NYU law school. The first time I didn't recognize him but his charisma was such I thought he was a Hollywood star I had never heard of. I couldn't stop looking at him he was so handsome and then it eventually dawned on me.

I think Carolyn sounds like a borderline. And most borderlines can fuck a weaker minded man into stupidity. They will get as nasty and crazy in bed to get a hold of them and have them stumped for years. I've seen it many times. They're not opposed to filth and degradation during sex to really tie these guys down. I'll bet even in sex she was manipulating.

Nobody had an issue with Carolyn until the family sued the Kennedys. After that, the Kennedys circled the wagons and began trashing Carolyn.

R177 not sue what world you are living in. But I hears Carolyn was a nasty bitch all the way in the east coast years before she died. Do you think all those pictures were taken after she died too?

Dear R169, I met Carolyn through someone in the film business who had a sister who was friendly with her. I later spent time with her through Bergin with whom I was very close for a while and no, he's not gay but knows how to use his looks to manipulate gay men. He was very close with Valentino for a while until V got tired of his shit. He cancelled on V for a White House dinner and that was that. Don't know what Gordon is up to. He was very close to his Mother who passed away some years ago. Carolyn totally fucked him over. He truly loved her and deserved the chance that designing her dress would have provided him. I didn't like Carolyn and thought she had no kindness in her. She used Bergin to get John and then actually believed he was lucky to have her. I also know for a fact that Lee Radziwill did not like her nor does she care for Carole.

Sure* - heard* = autocorrect

I didn't know Gordon was that close to her. Wow that was an ice water in the veins cold thing to do. And to use 'fag' as the ultimate put down.

She's really coming off as a wretched human being. Anybody have anything good to say about her?

Caroline and John F. Kennedy Jr. with Michael Jackson

It's funny how men will overlook the obvious crazy flaws of people like Carolyn B or Angelina Jolie and other borderline beautiful women. and take the caring good partners for granted and treat them like shit.

My younger brother who is a good looking (older now) laid back and all round wonderful fellow goes for very pretty neurotic blond women. His friends and family tend to know the drill.

R185 I think it's probably a common thing for handsome nice men to fall for crazy women. I've seen it around me many times.

Will never understand men who seemingly have everything marrying women who even their buds call manipulative and elitist, bitchy and extremely demanding. Any marriage counselor will tell you that once either partner starts putting the other one down when they argue the relationship is doomed. If they won't stop this horrendous behavior then it is only a matter of time.

In almost all their pictures together, John is always fawning all over her and she's just indifferent and bored.

This is what happens when you can have any woman you want. You start to only be interested in the ones who ignore you or mistreat you.

But in the end he got back at her.

John looked so happy and Carolyn was like she was being held a hostage.

Carolyn Looking so happy and all smile with Billy Crystal in January 1999

R 192 That is Carole Radziwill husband.

Lee Radziwill son, Anthony

R193 Sorry i thought it was Billy Crystal. LMAO

R192 it's telling she's so happy with a celebrity around.

"Darling," said John John, "how bouts I fly us to the wedding in my plane?" Diana laughed and exclaimed, "Fly me to the moon!" "I'm so happy you divorced the Prince of Wales and married me!" Said John John as he embraced her. "Shall I wear these diamond earrings or the sapphire ones?" Mused Diana. "The diamonds......and shall I wear shorts or big boy pants?" John John asked, his brow furrowed.

Young Carolyn

Jackie Kennedy was uncomfortable with Madonna--she reminded her too much of Marilyn, according to this article. And she thought Madonna was awful in Speed the Plow.

JFK, Jr., Rosemary Kennedy ,Carolyn Bessette and Patricia Kennedy Lawford at a Kennedy family reunion

I NEVER understood why Carolyn Bessette Kennedy was called "beautiful." Look at her face; she was NOT beautiful. But she was tall and thin and had very long dyed blonde hair. For some people, that constitutes great beauty: tall, blonde, skinny.

Carolyn at the funeral of Gianni Versace, 1997

Is R203 blind? Because I don't see Carolyn Bessette Kennedy anywhere in that picture.

Not r203 but r204, click on the picture

R204 Check your sight. Carolyn in the second row, far left

R201. That's the first picture I've seen of Rosemary Kennedy as an adult. Her story is so sad. Joe and Rose were terrible people.

is she not the second person back on the left? the big glowing blonde head?

R208 It's Carolyn

r207 It's not fair that the best looking Kennedy woman had issues. From my understanding, Rose was especially horrible

Diana ran around the plane screaming, waving her hands in the air, wearing nothing but a mink coat and Prada booties. "I'm taking this plane down! Down!" John John cried maniacally. "Oh and I did so want to attend this wedding," Diana sobbed as the plane lurched in its perilous descent towards the ocean.

Carolyn got a lot of flack for being an erratic bitch But She could also charm anyone in two minutes apparently

She is a good example of getting what you wish for. It is said she went after John with a vengance but he was quite the Mama's boy. Not exactly what she expected but he was very attracted to her for that reason. She was aggressive , she often referred to him as fag*ot. Carolyn was quite crass and liked to shock. I read she went to some Kennedy party, apologized loudly for being late and said she'd only time for a whore's bath.

with Chelsea Clinton

R164 Caroline is a bitch, so it means very little that she didn't like Carolyn. AS the pilot John had the final say whether they flew that night. It is on him, not Carolyn. He was an arrogant hubris filled Kennedy and he killed his wife and sister in law.

Carolyn holding john’s flight manual.

With Teddy Kennedy at the wedding

Did he have any training with flying at night over water? He obviously was in over his head.

[quote] For some people, that constitutes great beauty: tall, blonde, skinny.

yep, look at how many think Taylor Swift and Gwinnie GOOP are hot!

Why do people think she had great style? Was it the wedding dress?

Is that Hillary Clinton with Bessette in R197’s picture???

John Kennedy Jr. was a failure at everything and he chose a woman who would remind him of that. A very dull guy by all accounts and like all the Kennedy men, he was lousy in bed. Charisma and lil irish dicks that come fast and zip up quick. But he was a bit more romantic and Carolyn was a truly sophisticated beauty. He wanted something different from his crass ugly family. Caroline Kennedy's approval? Jesus christ how boring would that be. She's the dullest sister/wife/sailor in america. Did charlie sell her a nautical hankie from his cart too?

I believe JFK had a small cock so I wouldn't doubt JFK Jr. also had a small pecker. Maybe that's why Carolyn was always a bitch.

I don't think they had a decent brain between them.

It's been said that if they hadn't died, the marriage only would've lasted 2 or 3 more years.

Weren't they already on the outs, and this trip was a thawing of sorts.

I highly doubt Carolyn was some great mind. Smart to manipulate and get ahead. But let's not pretend she was some highly educated woman with tons to offer. She didn't even have celebrity on a D list to offer. She was 100% a manufactured person in her own mind. Notice everyone he was linked with before had made their own name worthy as it was or not. Carolyn had nothing. Even Daryl Hannaj at least made a name for herself. She didn't cling on anyone to get it.

What did JFK Jr. do to make a name for himself? Failed the bar, never practiced any law. He wanted to be an actor REAL BAD but mommy and sissy said NO. So he rollerbladed and started a magazine that was going bankrupt. He learned to fly? No. The dude was known for his pecs and his Jackie O bouffant. And his beautiful wife.

At least he was a dumb ass Kennedy. What did that bitch bring to the table?

Actually I'm more interested in what personality Carolyn's sister had. Was she a bitch too?

Darryl Hannah was no great actress and got easily thumped my DL fave Julia Roberts but she made her own name. Madonna was a trashy bitch but still made her own name. Even bottom of the barrel actress like sJP before Sex and the City worked for place in a profession. Where did Carolyn and her user manipulations do anything close? She didn't even have anything to stand on. At least his patheic nothingness came with a little something.

R230 I have a friend who knew Lauren, he said she was sweet nice girl, Lauren was starting to date a Kennedy before her death.

John had a pretty big dick. there are some nudes out there of him on the beach.

r232 Which Kennedy?

“At least he was a dumb ass Kennedy. What did that bitch bring to the table?”

You mean having been born to famous parents was some sort of personal “accomplishment”?

Q: What's the difference between Ted Kennedy & John-John?

A: Teddy only drowns one girl at a time!

r236 Factually incorrect joke, drowning was not the cause of death in this instance.

Q: What do Kennedy's miss most about Martha's Vineyard?

A: The runway.

R230. Lauren had an MBA from Wharton and worked as an investment banker at Morgan Stanley. She seems to have been well liked and respected by her colleagues. She also had an identical twin sister.

YES, Carolyn’s body was cut in half when they found her.

I came across a single Google image, searching for JFK Jr. several months back, presumably taken at the morgue which showed Carolyn bald, and with Intestines and other innards hanging out.

For some reason I can’t find the image now, but there’s no doubt it was clearly Carolyn and authentic.

R232. Bobby Shriver according to this article. She was attending the wedding as his guest.

Why was Carolyn bald??? Was that a blonde wig she wore??? Talk about the ultimate wigsnatch

242, after a body has been submerged in water for a long time, the hair follicles fall out. This has been well documented.

JfK Jr. wore a wig. A hair system they used to call them. Maybe he was the one snatched bald?

Someone post JFK Jr.'s nudes before this wonderful thread dies!!!

I assumed Lauren would be similar to her sister but it appears she was short and frauey

[quote]They're not opposed to filth and degradation during sex to really tie these guys down.

Why would this tie a guy down? If anything these women would be used and discarded,

R15 relax. They're just millennials; they don't get it.

Really R40?? Somebody who uses 'fag' as a slur?

The woman who took the nudes of John on a nude beach sold them to the Kennedys for a fortune.

She clearly was scum of the earth because you do not take pictures of someone on a nude beach without their consent. Honor among nudists.

It even happened to me. Someone with a telephoto lens and there was no one else around and I was standing. I wasn't offended. I thought it was laughable because I'm no oil painting. The guy was desperate.

R183, why this bullying of Angelina Jolie?

I’ve needed massive distractions this weekend, being that unforeseen events happened, in which I almost lost my mother. Thank god forDL, because the distraction was provided for fun and for free.

So, I was actually thinking about this woman. Why is she constantly demonized? She obviously has issues, but she doesn’t strike me as a bad person. She needs help, and recovery from her “stuff”.

I think this woman, warts and all, really loved her partner. I also think her partner has major anger issues that were even worse than his alcoholism and drug addiction. I think he adored her, but also was a controlling asshole, capable of violence and/or threatening behaviors. I don’t think she was the one displaying that. It was him.

If he got sober, and got his shit together, good. But you are delusional if you think she was some menacing bitch.

I cannot fault her for losing it. Look at how he is mowing her over right now. This guy has power. He can wipe his ass with this woman, and he actually hasn’t. He’s actually holding back and trying to be nice. But “nice” is not the real Brad Pitt that this woman was/is married to. He’s a very angry man who is accustomed to getting his way.

These two belong together and deserve each other, because they actually loved and probably still love one another. But if she can’t do it, I don’t blame her.

She gave up everything to be this guy’s wife, and yes, he is an excellent provider, and would most probably do anything to take care of his kids AND her, but that doesn’t mean he gets to be an asshole to her. And I bet he was.

I have seen this in my own life. The man who I love dearly, is a secret asshole and jerk. He’s a good person, and he loves me, and he’s no slouch, in any department, and women are crazy about him, but he wanted to control me and disregarded me in ways that I just cannot overlook. He painted me as a complete cunt when I decided to leave and take care of me, because in his mind, the only person capable of taking care of me was him. And that’s just not true. And now his anger and obsession with me is that he just cannot believe someone walked away from him. I didn’t want to, but he was nothing but a box of misery and drug issues that I personally cannot be privy to because of my own recovery.

Men don’t have to lay a finger on you to be abusive.

Carolyn Kennedy was the real deal bitch. No way was Jolie a bitch to her husband. Two completely different women with two very different men.

JFK, Jr. was genuinely nice.

246, that is NOT her sister Lauren, but her long time friend Jessica. Lauren was much taller.

this is a great thread

If you ever wonder why the Kardashians have become such an interest to the public- just read this thread- celebrity worship/trashing (for sport?) if an earlier time. The K’s have turned it into ca$h.

Rearranging the boys . . .

Yes, feels like there is something very unfinished about their story - on a monumental scale.

R96 - LOL. But you know the axiom, wedding or no wedding: "no diamonds in the country".

Even with the stylishness she would not have aged well.

His legs are so beautiful in r255 s photo!

His mother was a bit of a homophobe too...when he expressed a desire to act, one of the main reasons she discouraged him from it was because she didn’t want him to be thought of as a “fruit”.

His mother was THE courtesan of the twentieth century and no one to be admired. She was a decent mother in terms of providing for and protecting her children. But as a woman, Jackie O was expensive trash.

R258 she would have been as wrinkled as Jackie, which is fine.

I know we are talking about Carolyn but this has always fascinated me about Jackie. Jackie's bio glosses over the job she took with the CIA (this one is from imdb). Anyone have any details on why she took a CIA job, what she did there, why she left, and how she got a job as a photographer with no experience? R260, is courtesan a nice word for spy?

Jackie attended boarding schools and then Vassar. After two years, though, she got tired of schools and spent her junior year studying at the Sorbonne in Paris. When she got back to the US she did not want to go back to Vassar, so she enrolled in George Washington University in Washington, DC, graduating in 1951. She took a job at the CIA and in January of 1952 went to work at a Washington newspaper as a photographer. During an assignment, she met U.S. Senator John F. Kennedy, who was 12 years her senior. They were married on September 12, 1953.

[quote] Jackie's bio glosses over the job she took with the CIA

duh! Why do you think that is?? (rolling my eyes) (rhetorical question)

R262 and R263, on that note

Interesting R264

Wait a minute bitches! I thought this thread was about me.

R60 - I would never say that Carolyn was not beautiful, because she very much was. That said, Sharon Stone was 50 times the beauty that Carolyn was at the same age. Sharon has one of the most beautiful faces that Hollywood has ever seen. And that BODY. Plus, her "hair" was always just fine - equal if not better than Bessette's.

I don't think she was a beauty. Beauty is rare... there's a sharpness to it... no one (sensible) can really debates it credibly. Elizabeth Taylor was a beauty, whatever you might think of her. So was Vivien Leigh.

Carolyn Besette was an very attractive woman with some striking features, like her height. I don't think she was a beauty, she just presented well.

R267 I must be unique on this thread, but for a blond I found her ordinary. Stylish she was and also fascinating but not so much beautiful, maybe I come from a different culture.

She was (as the French call it) jolie laide, but overrated in every way.

Images of Lauren's twin sister please!!!!

Her face wasn’t beautiful at all. I would say the face was almost ugly but like many have stated above, she presented well.

Carolyn always reminded me of Sharon Tate

Yeah, she wasn't pretty. She had the perfect face that would respond to good lighting though. That's why she looked good in some of those modeling shots.

For what it's worth, SJP in the early 90s, Madonna during the Bedtime Stories era and Sharon Stone (women mentioned earlier upthread) all looked better than her.

Lisa Ann is often wearing glasses.

Lisa is at the left wearing the white sweater. Lauren is the other brunette sitting down.

Didn't Madonna have a fling with JFK Jr? And it was stopped by Jackie on the grounds that Madonna was — in Jackie's words — 'a gross social climber'.

Thanks R277. Is that the father of all of them, or just some of them? He's jewish, right?

Her "style" was what is called "minimalist." Her wedding dress was a good example of that. It looked more like a slip or a nightgown than a wedding gown. And whenever she and John-John made a public appearance her look seldom varies. It consisted of a black dress, severely pulled back hair (which emphasized her gaunt face and large nose) and red lipstick. Right before the fatal flight she bought a black dress to wear to Rory Kennedy's wedding. She bought it at Saks; it was black silk crepe evening dress from the fall/winter collection of Rive Gauche, below-the-knee in length, featuring a full, gathered bodice cinched in the back of the neck with a wide satin bow. It cost $1,630. Why did she need to buy another black dress? She must have had dozens of them.

The only person worse is that messy cunt carol radziwill

R280, yup, in her wedding dress, she looks like she's wearing a night gown. Not sure why it was considered "cutting edge fashion" at the time.

Why did he dump Darryl Hannah for her? I know she’s autistic but seems decent enough.

Is it true while Carolyn and her sis were screaming for their lives, John John was chuckling to himself?

I think that Carolyn, Johnny-John, and Laurie aren’t dead. They’re merely shape shifting.

Can you imagine how much more insufferable SJP and Sex and the City would have been if she ended up with JFK JR in real life?

She wouldn't have done Sex and the City R286

If that was her at Versace's funeral, she looked a bit raw.

I wonder why she never got a subtle nose job to shave down that beak. It would have made a world of difference.

I think a piece of the fuselage did that, R289. The results were noticeable.

Any specific details about Caroline's dislike of Carolyn? Did they ever have any fights? I know Ed Scholossberg hated Carolyn, but he's a tremendous asshole who hates everyone, and the feeling is mutual.

2006

John F. Kennedy Jr. may have dated Daryl Hannah and married troubled Carolyn Bessette - but Madonna talked dirty to him on the phone. That's one of the spicier revelations in William Sylvester Noonan's "Forever Young: My Friendship with John F. Kennedy Jr.," the latest in a string of books about the doomed heir of Camelot.

"A familiar voice was on his answering machine, calling him 'Kennedy' and moaning about being drunk and in Rome and describing exactly what she wanted to do with" him, Noonan writes.

Kennedy practically fell down laughing when Noonan couldn't place the voice. "Finally, he looked at me, calmly, like it was nothing," he writes. "Madonna."

Noonan, who was one of JFK Jr.'s oldest friends wrote that Kennedy "had a thing for hardheaded - and beautiful - women."

And none were harder to handle than Bessette, according to Noonan's account.

Bessette used drugs, saw a shrink five days a week - and felt overshadowed by the late Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, the book says.

"Carolyn was using drugs, too, and it was taking a toll, making her nervous and sometimes paranoid," Noonan writes.

Kennedy was put off by his wife's "sneaky" behavior. "She is into everything, meddling and manipulating," he once yelled, according to Noonan.

Shortly before the July 1999 plane crash that claimed their lives, Kennedy told his pal that "Carolyn was better." "But there was something somber in his tone, a portent of some change he didn't get into," Noonan writes.

John crying after Carolyn' berating

R291, Never understood why those 2 got married. What was his real career? Should I start a new thread?

Carolyn in 1990

John John was very comfortable sitting on gross NYC sidewalks.

JFK Jr. dances to Prince with his assistant RoseMarie Terenzio, 1998

R280 is correct. If memory serves, Kate Moss did this look first (or at least way before) and did it far better than Carolyn. Bessette's "minimalism" seemed both late-to-the-game and boring. The tabloid frenzy was really always about JFK Jr. I don't think who he dated or married really mattered - they would have covered his every move in depth (and she really was "nobody" before their relationship). I agree with those above who mentioned those epic and very common public fights - they were a match made in paparazzi heaven.

The dress Carolyn Never got to wear

R295 , shit she is manly in that photo - the spitting image of the lead singer of Dead or Alive. You spin me right round!

Carolyn B with Caroline Kennedy's two daughters, Tatiana and Rose

That was an ugly dress.

Of course JFK the tiny "snapped" his lil gay fingers when he danced. Gross. Could the dude be any less cool? Carolyn was the perfect wife for him. Just because she was a bit fond of coke and cray was no reason for him to murder her. And her wedding dress and style are still perfection to this day. That's what classic beauty is. She was pretty spectacular in her presentation, from gym to street to formal. Always understated, trademarked. Bessette was far more impressive than Kate Mouse, never mind Madonna or Daryl Mannah.

R303 = Carolyn Bessette' ghost

R303, no. Her look died along with the other dated aspects of the 90s. She was never a "beauty".

JFK Jr. with Robert DeNiro - George photoshoot

Why is she sitting around looking grumpy with her legs spread in all of her modeling photos? Couldn’t she do any other poses?

From rare good days?

r310 No matter how handsome and manly John John was, you could always still see that little boy.

The children must have had a wonderful time combing Carolyn’s mane and feeding her carrots.

Did she ever give a recorded interview?

315 No

I just can't believe that John didn't fool around with guys in his youth.

With a friend’s child

R260 - in spades. She ditched her first fiance for the much richer JFK, then married Onassis for yet more money and security, then took up with the married Maurice Tempelsman, who tripled her wealth through his investment expertise.

Jackie and her sister were raised to pursue wealth and social status through men. They were high-class ornamental types.

r319 they were typical of their time and social class. That's what women were like back then.

John would be 58 and Carolyn would be 52 this year.

1983: Jackie and John Kennedy Jr with Peter Lawford attending Sidney Lawford’s wedding

Would have never let the creature through my door.

Love this pic of Jackie sucking down a cig with no hands!

If she was alive, she'd be on Real Housewives of NYC, probably divorced from Jr. but living large along side her one remaining BFF Carole, chain smoking, bitching about Bethany and gossiping about what an old whore Sonia is. Something tells me old age would not have suited her.

1999 - John Clinging to her as usual

Look at how skinny Jackie was! It must've taken tremendous discipline to stay that thin in middle age.

R327 No wonder Carolyn reminded John of his beloved mother!

R317, according to the vintage gossip....

“Kennedy, John F, Jr (John-John). May have played for the home team while at Brown. Drug user at least while in college. Linked with Daryl Hannah, Madonna, Christine Onassis, Sarah Jessica Parker, Brooke Shields, and Xuxa.”

Wow, I didn’t think any pictures of Rosemary since the operation existed in public.

Who’s xuxa?

Domestic abuse' victim

It's obvious who was the boss in that relationship

with Daryl Hannah, the body language was so different from that with Carolyn.

Did Carolyn smoke?

R341 Yes

R336 Xuxa was a bleached blonde Brazilian dancer who hosted a strangely sexualized children's show in Brazil for many years in the 80's to 90's

Xuxa was a South American popstar.

With the Kennedy's children

R350 Everyone in the photo was looking at the camera except John, looking at Carolyn!

Lots and lots of cigarettes and a few iceberg lettuce leaves at 21 keeps you very thin in middle age.

Jackie smoked 3 packs a day. There's the "discipline" required to stay so thin in middle age. The legit style beauty of the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s - Audrey Hepburn also was a lifelong heavy smoker. Trust me it kills the appetite if you are smoking 2 packs a day. It killed Jackie and Audrey too. One of them is deeply missed.

Carolyn and John both smoked. They both did coke too. What's the big deal. She didn't ruin him - he was very much a submissive guy to women. Daryl Hannah is retarded and let Jackson Brown beat her for years. Her "sweetness" aka stupidity wore thin on John after awhile. SJP would have been a great match for him to be honest. She's controlling AND sweet, smokes a lot and leads the pretense of a normal life while attending every major social event in NYC, attired in haute couture. Never vintage.

r133 said "John was very badly cut up and badly decomposed."

It is highly unlikely that John's body was decomposing within the few hours it took the Navy to find him.

They were in the water for about five days.

R356 it took days

All those teeth the Kennedys.

John Jr was lucky he got the Agnelli genes.

r11, Really. So did John John experiment with men. Who was lucky to have him?

John's body was in cold ocean water where it can take weeks to decompose. He would not have been badly decomposed in Atlantic waters after 5 days.

timeless

simple eleganza

Wasn't it kind of odd that John Jr. was nearly 40 and still hadn't sired a child. 39 in 1999 wasn't what it is today.

The white blonde hair washed her out and made her features look harsh. The thinned out almost nonexistent eyebrows made her eye bug and her nose look beaky. But with darker hair and thicker brows she was quite striking.

Compare that ^ to this:

Interesting, R362. But were they intact once they hit the water? I don't believe the guy who called in to the Howard Stern Show. Sounded like utter BS.

It seems like plenty of good looking straight men found Carolyn to be very attractive.

The thinned out white blonde look also just made her look sickly and haggard.

Who cares about these dead fools.

I wanna rim little Jack Schlossberg.

Better than pretty, she had a face of distinction and pale alien beauty. She was part Ralph Lauren model and very much a downtown chick. When all you need is lipstick and a half lined eye to be drop dead gorgeous.

Agnelli was ugly AF. No way he was John's father. Jackie wasn't even around Agnelli at the time of conception.

I wish we could have some pictures on this thread to remember what Carolyn looked like.

I think she charmed the whole Kennedy family Except maybe Caroline and her husband.

She looked like a Modigliani, as John surely knew. Because Carolyn told him so. Very beautiful woman.

With Paul Newman and wife

Carolyn and Caroline at the wedding

When she was a very young girl, she was stunningly beautiful. Her looks were at their apex when she met JFK Jr. Then when the drugs got to be severe and she became more and more neurotic, she became haggard and ugly. There is a photo in which she is eating dinner with JFK Jr on one of their first dates. She looks to be in her early 20s in the photo. I cannot find it. In that one photo she was truly angelic looking. I understood then what he saw in her. But all of the photos after that? Shocking loss of looks in one so young, and in so short a time.

Oh and the photos of her wedding dress from behind? Her ass looked great.

Love is complicated. They were in love.

She also may have been better looking in person than in photos

Carolyn and Carole Radziwill both worked at Caldor as teenagers.

R387 John was absolutely in love with her, there is no question. Maybe she was in love with him in her own twisted way

JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette's Top Secret Wedding

Didn't Madonna ruffle Jackie's feathers by signing the guest book at 1040 Fifth Avenue "Mrs. Sean Penn"?

She needed the eyebrows.

The pictures of Carolyn with Jenn Anisron, Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward are interesting. She looks happier than in most of the shots with John John. She liked being around famous people it looks like.

R396 I noticed that too

Why was she always crying?!

While at Brown, CNN's Christiane Amanpour was one of JFK, Jr.'s roommates. Given his penchant for nudity, she must have seen his cock regularly.

Carolyn looked better with light brown hair in the beginning of their dating (1994) before she bleached her hair mercilessly, but i guess John loved blondes.

Charlie, I'll kiss your ass - you always bring a tasty dish and I have no hesitancy believing you. I always detect the ring of truth in your posts.

I respectfully disagree r328. Yes, She'd have long since become bored with JFK, Jr.

But, by now she'd be on her 2nd or 3rd older tech billionaire. Those mega-billionaire types would see having what JFK, Jr. had: CBK as reinforcing and reflecting their own status.

If she were alive she wouldn't be on Real Housewives, she'd be hanging with the Real Money wives of Bill Gates, Zuckerberg or Schmidt.

The set that Wendi Deng aspires to but the poor thing can only make do with trash like Ivanka Trump.

About that black dress....THAT'S what she wears to a wedding? Seems to me it was rather inappropriate.

I've seen pictures of her in her early youth. She was dark haired and weighed more. But I don't think she looked better back then. Supposedly she was always "beautiful" but if she was beautiful it was a strange kind of beauty. Her features, all taken together, do not constitute beauty in my opinion. Daryl Hannah had a much prettier face.

Some really obnoxious woman is posting here. JFK was nothing but a name and a hairpiece. Almost 40 years old, with the attention and focus of an 8 year old. A failure at the few things he tried. Afraid to go against his mommy's wishes. He showed his body because he was an attention whore and to open his mouth was not a good idea. Dude had stumpy legs and tiny eyes, bony arms and hairline pro magnum. I don't know if he was lucky to find Carolyn Bessette or not, but John Jr. was for sure not her most interesting "famous" friend.

They deserved each other, if not that outcome. That's all on him. He waited to learn to fly until his mommy died too. She was scared for him - and not just out of superstition. John boy had many limitations and mucho Kennedy entitlement. He would have taken down his family of children with him in a plane too. Because he was that immature + dumb. Carolyn went along for the ride. RIP.

Do you think they would have gotten a divorce eventually?

Did JFK, Jr. drop Hannah for CBK or did they meet after their break-up?

It seemed a fast turnaround from seeing pix of Hannah at Jackie O's funeral and then just that quick I saw the paparazzi shots of him with CBK.

R405 Of course, their union was ill fated and doomed

R407 There was an old article reporting the breakup of John and Hannah, they said John shed no tears and was already pursuing another woman

do you perhaps mean a "hairline cromagnon" r404, rather than pro magnum?

sweet jesus.

I remember reading that she wanted to get out of the city, move to Connecticut and have children, but he loved the city.

1994

I think she looked happier in the start of their relationship

With John's sister Caroline

Were they fucking in the park?!

Whoever is posting all the photos, we know how to google.

Sorry R410. Of course I meant Cronut. John had the hairline of a cronut. Why didn't he pull that wig up?

Sorry about your shift key... you type young for such an old dude.

R96 Totally agree, I think that's the case with Carolyn B and JFK jr. That's why she seemed happy in the start of their relationship..

She very obviously sought fame. She modeled, worked in fashion and looked to be in heaven around famous people. She knew very well what she was doing when she was tying down this rich and famous man. The fact that he had no real accomplishments of his own and was kinda dim she knew she could control the relationship which is why she became so hard in the end. At the beginning sure she was happy but you know once she knew he was kind of a dud she knew she could drive the car. So many straight men both rich and blue collar have this happen to them. The non working wives immediately work their way into nagging men to a point where they just always let them win so they can go watch the game alone in the TV room.

R426 my brother is exactly this way. It’s his fault though, he seeks out women who nag and berate him, even though neither of his wives worked and he pays all the bills. Eventually he starts cheating with a new woman who is nice to him at first and then turns mean too.

She had resting bitch face. I believe all the stories about her drug use and she probably was hell to live with. He deserved better. But he chose her.

Even Her body language was very different in the beginning. Why wasn't she bothered and irritated by the paparazzi in the start like she claimed later?!!

R426 "At the beginning sure she was happy but you know once she knew he was kind of a dud she knew she could drive the car."

Very true

R426 and R27 they also use children, the mommy excuse of being a mom is the hardest job in the world and manipulation that translates to "what would you do without me" and " if I don't who will" to keep these men down. It's uncanny how many of these women use the same tactics.

So do you think Carolyn B was Borderline mentally unstable and insecure Or cunning manipulative who deliberately knew what she was doing?!

What did she do to him again you insane person? No one kept John down, he craved strong manipulation like his mommy provided. He liked punishment too. When mom died he did the press conference then headed off to a dominatrix downtown. Carolyn had her own problems and that is way hard for a juvenile narcissist like JohnJunior to comprehend. So he drove a plane with a broken foot and no horizon in sight. I think he was poison to any woman who stayed with him. No one could ever be as cruel and cool and tasteful as his mommy.

R432 "When mom died he did the press conference then headed off to a dominatrix downtown."

Is this real?!!

R432 = The Bessette girls' mother

I smell fish people

Fake kiss

She was a NY 8 but a California 6.

JFC obsessive Aspie picture troll, we fucking get it. God, you're tiresome.

The picture troll is trying to ruin a good thread.

She suffered from the curse of the 90s eyebrows. Much prettier with fuller eyebrows

She had a hard time dealing with the reality of being the wife of the Prince of Camelot. The constant media attention was not easy for her to take and John actually asked the press to lighten up on her (they didn't). Supposedly that one reason she was into coke, to take the edge off of being so hounded. Well, if she didn't know she'd be giving up her privacy by marrying John she must have been pretty stupid. She was married to a Kennedy, THE Kennedy, and with that came becoming a tabloid fixture. I'm sure they would have eventually divorced. She would not have been able to handle the pressure.

"With Carolyn gone, whose eyes to compare with the morning sun?

Not that Idid compare, But I do compare Now that she's gone."

R446, one thing about Madonna that everyone can appreciate is that she never whined about being targetted by the press. If Carolyn was that dumb, that's on her.

Sorry, i have a mild laearning disability.

[quote] With Annie gone,

whose eyes to compare

with the morning sun?

Not that I did compare,

But I do compare

Now that she's gone.

R446 But what "pressure" did she have to handle? Being photographed? Or was there more? I don't get the "pressure" angle. She wasn't running for President. She was a wife. She obviously knew how to look cute and she photographed well. What more to the job was there than that, that could ravage a person so that they needed drugs to cope?

All the focus and attention would have died down soon enough, anyway

The pictures did get tiresome around the 7,000 mark but they do serve to show what an attention whore he was... living out his dramas on almost every street corner? Every time is nutty sidekick wanted to burst into tears or throw another punch, he could have gone indoors. His mother would have been mortified. Of course, because you can't just let a moment go because it might end up by the cash register, then I think it's divine.

What's the name of that crazy old fried blonde waitress who used to "know" George Clooney? I think that is the brand of crazy posting here right now this very minute.

She wanted to have kids? Why?

Oh well, I suppose it would have solidified her position, and it’s not as if she’d have to actually care for them herself.

And a Minnesota 12, R437

There's a thread on reddit by someone who claimed to have interned for Ann Coulter at George. The poster states that while Ann had crazy views, she was respectful and professional in the workplace.

The poster was questioned about JFK Jr. and this one of the comments. The poster is wrong about the cast. IIRC, the cast has been removed several days before.

[quote]Junior was a very kind but excessively and sometimes obnoxiously confident man. Impossibly attractive and charismatic. Lowly interns were treated to lunch, known by name, and never sent for coffee. I did not know him well, but his overconfidence stands out as the most defining characteristic for me. He flew that plane with a giant cast on his leg in conditions he wasn't properly experienced to handle. As he required crutches to get around, I can't imagine he was in proper physical condition to operate any foot-controlled instruments on a plane.

Thanks R455. Confirms things.

r455 We didn't need someone at George to tell us that, we already knew.

Dear R260 and R319. I know the Templelsman family. They are far classier and more elegant than Jackie or Lee. Lilly Templesman is still alive and is a fine, low key aristocratic woman. Kathy Templelsman who is married to Leon, Maurice and Lilly's son looks like Audrey Hepburn. Same build, same simple chic. The Tempelsman family are far wealthier than people realize and control a huge amount of the diamonds from Angola. They are also partners in DeBeers. The Tempelsmans have known the Kennedy's since JFK was in the White House and were at JFK's funeral. They are the ones who brought Jackie to the Vineyard having lived there for many years.

R458. Interesting info. How long have Jews been on Martha's Vineyard? It seems like a hopelessly white protestant place.

you really should read more R459, even if you just plan to stay in mom's basement

R310 that is Daryl Hannah not Carolyn.

I can only imagine how nasty this thread would have been had she killed two people by being overconfident and negligent.

Oh, we're here (Robert Morgenthau, Bill and Rose Styron, Lillian Hellman, Diana Trilling, Robert Brustein, Linda Fairstein, Tony Horwitz and Geraldine Brooks, Carly Simon, Peter Simon, Mike Nichols, Judy Blume, Shel Silverstein, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Larry David,Mike Wallace.) And we've been here. Just skip Edgartown.. Best Wishes, Jews on Martha's Vineyard. You may know us as literati, R459

Nice, 463.

PS How long, R459? The first Jew on Martha's Vineyard was Sam Cronig who arrived in 1905. He and his family opened Cronig's Market in 1917, and they are still thriving--in Vineyard Haven and Tisbury. You can read about it here: Sincerely, R463 and the Jews on Martha's Vineyard.

Thank you, R463 & R465. Quite a list.

You're welcome, R464 & R466. –R463

Interesting thread. But we need a new one on Jackie and Lee.

Their lives were to crazy not to have constant threads on, on DL.

I must have written this already but I'm going to do it again. A few years before Jackie died I was invited by a wealthy friend to dine at a very expensive elegant upper east side Italian restaurant.

I was a bit late and my fried who was already seated told me Jackie was eating by us. I looked up and there she was looking just like she did in all those photos I had been seeing for a lifetime.

She was dining with Templesman a deux and after they got up and were leaving he saw a large group of friends at a table and went over to say hello and speak with them. Jackie stood clearly apart not saying anything and he didn't even bother to introduce her. He then went back to her and they left.

My brush with American and New York social history.

[quote]and hairline pro magnum

Oh dear, R404. So serious and confident in your reply.....and then this.

R455, Anne Coulter lives in my building. She’s well-liked by most of the staff. Supposedly, she’s polite and pleasant and a big tipper at Christmas.

As loathsome as Ann Coulter's politics are, she's actually a very funny and gracious person in private.

I am NOT defending her, her politics are loathsome. I'm just repeating what I've been told by people who have interacted with her.

It’s amazing how quaint the 90s seem. No cell phones, no selfies, no Twitter.

With her bleach blonde hair she looked a little like Marilyn Manson.

R473 - it was a much better time. I miss the 90's. I moved to NYC in 93 to attend NYU, and we all use to drool catching a glimpse of JFK Jr rollerblading in Washington Square park (and I'm a lesbian - but I would have turned for him!) . He also went to Coles (our University's sports center/gym) but I was never fortunate enough to see him there.

There are women in high society, still, who are bred to be wives. College educated, but not TOO educated. Often become fashion interns of some kind or art museum volunteers. Meet cute with similarly upper crust young men. Marry tastefully, settle into career of spouse, seen well-dressed at the proper places throughout the season.

What amazes about the Bessette girls is that they managed to pull this shit off without a trust fund.

Agreed R476. It's nerve-wracking without a trust fund.

I know quite women from that orbit who failed to find the husbands (there's a permanent shortage of quote unquote 'eligible' i.e., rich, straight, dumb men in the world) .

It's not an easy path once you hit your late 30's and early 40's with no man...and no money

R461 you're right. i was surprised to see Carolyn affectionate like that with John

John' body language with Daryl Hannah is completely different from that with Carolyn B.

I can't understand how a man can be overconfident and yet submissive to women?!

1999

While Carolyn and a friend spent 2 hours prowling the racks last Friday at Saks Fifth Avenue, Bessette Kennedy told a salesperson she was “not looking forward” to the evening flight with her husband and sister to Martha’s Vineyard and Hyannis Port, The Post has learned.

Just the day before, her husband, John F. Kennedy Jr., had a cast removed from his ankle – broken while paragliding over the Memorial Day weekend – buthe was still limping around their TriBeCa apartment. It was not an ideal situation for someone who planned to fly a complicated aircraft.

At Saks, Bessette Kennedy talked freely about her fears, witnesses said.

“He just had the cast taken off his leg. I don’t know if he’s ready yet to fly again,” the young Mrs. Kennedy said to the salesperson, who works in Saks’ third-floor designer section.

I can't believe how stupid and reckless he was to fly that plane at night with no instrument training. Even the biggest moron on Earth could see how disastrous a decision that was. When you're flying at night in pitch blackness, you have no sense of up or down and you can't see shit, it's an extremely dangerous situation. Stupid stupid stupid of him. To this day I can't believe he did that.

R482 = Jackie Kennedy Onassis' ghost

I recall endless stories about these two in trouble and fighting prior to the accident to the point where my first thought was surprise that they were even on a private flight together.

I know someone that knew her family and they suggested her family were not impressed by the Kennedy cool factor and after the death of both their girls it totally destroyed them and they have had nothing to do with the Kennedy's since the plane crash. Her family were considered quiet, discrete and decent people.

She had one of those hard to believe faces.

Hard to believe she was considered beautiful.

JFK JR: THE SECRET HE TOOK TO THE GRAVE - DIVORCE PAPERS

At the time of his death, John F. Kennedy Jr. had intended to divorce his wife Carolyn, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

A close Kennedy friend is divulging that long-kept secret as the tragic plane crash - which took the couple's lives as they flew to his cousin's wedding

John intended to privately confide in his uncle Ted Kennedy regarding the divorce during the weekend celebration at the Hyannis Port family compound. John was on his way to the gathering when his plane went down.

"He could have called Ted on the phone, but John wanted to speak to him 'man to man,'" said the friend. "He had thrown in the towel on his marriage.

"John had already secretly seen a divorce lawyer, and he wanted Ted to know first - even before his sister Caroline. Uncle Ted had been like John's father after President Kennedy's assassination.

"A couple of days before his plane trip, John told me, 'I'm going to tell Uncle Ted what's really going on - he'll know what to do.'"

Another Kennedy family insider confirmed to The ENQUIRER that 38-year-old John was planning to divorce Carolyn - and get the nastiness out of the way before launching a political career.

"In the weeks before John's flight, he decided to divorce Carolyn, realizing she could sink his dream of having a political career," disclosed the insider.

"He went to marriage counseling and was willing to make it work, but Carolyn wasn't. John didn't hate Carolyn - he knew that she had become a different person."

John's nearly three-year marriage to the beautiful blonde had soured so badly that they were sleeping in separate bedrooms.

She was a big fish in a little pond, and his pond was much too big for her.

R485 why would they have contact with the Kennedy's after her and John's death? The only connection to the Kennedy's was marriage. If John divorced her they wouldn't have contact with the Kennedy's either.

Is CBK a new DL fave or something - or will one or two threads exhaust our interest?

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

I have a friend,whose college roommate was raped by Ted Kennedy. This would have been in the late 70's. She tells stories of the Kennedy PR machine that are astounding.

The Independent article refers to the same Kennedy PR machine, desperate to paint Carolyn Bessette Kennedy as an evil, greedy, drug-obsessed cunt who ruined the life of America's Prince.

Stupid article, there were no lies in her so-called "smear". She was very complex like many women are, apparently very charismatic and fun to be around but also a nagging total bitch when she was unhappy. I imagen Kennedy, even though he liked her free spirit but not her drug use, would have divorced her because she would have made a bad political wife and I believe he had his eyes on the 2002 New York governors race.

Back in the 90s, cocaine use was extremely common among 20/30 somethings who lived in Manhattan and liked to go out at night. Lots of us did it back then.

Back in the 90s? Try now...

Of course coke is still big in NYC now, I was just putting it in the context of the time period of when Carolyn was around.

Did Camilla break up their marriage too?

I think the truth is in the middle between, Yes, Carolyn was funny charming woman who can be a total bitch and manipulative. Obviously, John loved that about her. From all the women in the world, he chose Carolyn to marry and wanted to have children with her (even though he knew very well about her drug use and bitchy manipulative side) and she was the one who refused.

She didn't ruin JFK jr. He was going to do this ill fated fight with or without Carolyn.

i meant flight..

So Carolyn made John miserable in life and he killed her in the end.

"Carolyn and John both smoked. They both did coke too."

Good heavens!

R497 😄👿😄

Can you imagine Diana and Carolyn in a cat fight over John......

Turn in your gay card, R502.

R485 The Bessette family reached a settlement with Kennedy's estate for approx. 25 million dollars as he was to blame for their daughters' deaths.

It's the least thing the Bessette family could do after their 2 daughters were killed due to John' reckless.

I remember reading that the two of them were functionally separated at the time of their deaths and John had stayed at a hotel instead of at home the night before the flight. He also had a sympathetic "friend" he might have been sleeping with.

It's not unusual for Kennedy men to delay siring children. JFK was 42 or 43 when his son was born, though that wasn't his first child. I think Ed Schlossberg was older as well. Jr. could have divorced CBK and married and impregnated someone else within a couple of years.

Supposedly her very simple wedding dress was valued at $40,000. Never quite understood that for something so basic.

R505 Apparently John wanted to have kids with Carolyn but she refused

"I want to have kids, but whenever I raise the subject with Carolyn, she turns away and refuses to have sex with me.”

The speaker was John F. Kennedy Jr., pouring his heart out to a friend. It was early in the evening of July 14, 1999—two days before John’s fatal plane crash

“It’s not just about sex,” John told his friend, who recalled the conversation for me several days later, while it was still fresh in his memory. “It’s impossible to talk to Carolyn about anything. We’ve become like total strangers.”

John John’s legs at R310, are a thing of pure beauty.

What a shame that I never got to meet him. I would’ve screwed his brains out.

Also, please allow me to point out the following: straight men who have a public persona of being submissive to women, are USUALLY very dominant in bed. The woman who appears to be calling all of the shots, USUALLY becomes quite submissive when they hit the sheets.

The straight man who appears highly dominant, and macho in his relationships, is usually very submissive in bed, while his partner who appears submissive, is the type of woman who takes charge in the sack.

The roles can, and do switch, when in a LTR, however, this is USUALLY, how it works.

So I very much believe that JJ was totally, 100% in charge, behind closed doors, with his wife. And he was probably REALLY good at being in charge. That’s why she married him. The sex was probably off the charts, and he took over when it really mattered to her, which was in bed.

R508 No one said John was submissive in bed because we really don't know what was their sex life like.

But it's clear he was submissive to her in many aspects of their relationship.

Which is why I think he was dominant in the sack, R509.

Women like this are constantly challenging their bf’s/husband’s masculinity, because they want to be dominated in bed.

I did this when I was much younger. I know of what I speak. Interestingly enough, I eventually became accustomed to being more of a submissive partner publicly, which meant I became the complete opposite privately.

Eventually, you mature, you find the right partner, & get the right balance, but all of these shenanigans are just power plays, that are out of this world hot in the bedroom.

Is it a healthy way to conduct a relationship? Nope. But I understand why people do it: REALLY GOOD SEX.

So sad that they died. John was too reckless to fly the airplane in those conditions, also Carolyn for wasting time doing her nails.

Yeah, there's that story about how Carolyn will not leave the nail salon until the color of her fingers and toes was JUST RIGHT. She wanted them to be white, with a hint of lavender. And would not leave until they were the exactly right shade.

I love that shade of nail polish! Too bad he murdered her.

Sometimes vanity can get you killed.

The article upthread says Carolyn arrived at the airport first, followed by John and her sister Lauren a short time later. At the time I recall news reports saying they were waiting for her to arrive. What gives?

R514 In this case it was hubris that was responsible for the deaths of the Bessette sisters.

R516 I hear you. But I was really making a general statement that vanity can sometimes go to far, in cases of cosmetic surgery. But when it comes to Carolyn. People always bring up the nail salon story in which I'm not really to well versed on.

But either way the whole thing was one big tragedy.

The DL Carolyn Kennedy Meltdown of Summer 2018, y'all!

Carolyn obsessively doing her nails and arriving late was Not the cause of the disaster. John inexperience as a pilot is the reason for their downfall.

Howard Stern spoke very highly of CBK. That's all I got.

JFK Jr may or may not have been dominant in the sack. But what I can tell you is that if a woman (or bottom) loses respect for their partner, the sex dies and dies fast. In her insane way (or maybe she really wasn’t all that crazy) she probably lost respect after the umpteenth fight that brought him to tears...

So sayeth Ye Olde Wise Ass Bottome of Higgenbottom Manor, R521

Mentally, CBK had to elevate herself above him to secure America's prince, he was way up there based on his looks, family background and wealth. JFKjr could have has anyone and anything he wanted, male, female , racoons cats, dogs, everyone knew it including him and her. She was a challenge for him which can be a turn on for people who can have anyone or anything they want.

I once saw him in person, (using the subway as a normal person) and he was tall with staggering good looks.

You could NOT notice him.

She was living that life post Friends pre- SATC. When they died, the cops assigned outside his home ( white trash from long island) wondered why he would choose to live there when he could live anywhere in the world.

But he was a New Yorker born and raised just like his sister and their mother before them ( lawng eylund-the nice part). O could have lived anywhere in the world but she chose to live in New York City and raise her kids in NYC DECADES BEFORE IT BECAME FASHIONABLE. JR attended a party school in New York City, (NYU) when he could have attended any other school in the world based on his pedigree regardless of his lack of intellect or educational achievement.

It was people like O and Jr who made NYC their home for decades ( lived here, paid taxed here, advocated for NYC) that made NYC the place that you people have to live in or else.

Jackie ran around the reservoir and advocated for Central Parks improvement, yes it was motivated by self-interest but she could have lived anywhere and choose to live here warts and all)

O's advocacy helped create the Landmarks Commission (which is in a shambles after a foreign-born Commissioner and three-term Boston born mayor both without any long-term ties to NYC held its head post for two decades).

Had JR lived there would have been no Bloomberg three term in Gracie mansion, no Bush baby two term and no tweeting trumpette in the WH- we are looking for a leader and regardless of his personal failings, JR had that legacy thing working for him and movie star looks.

Cuomos dolt of a son ( who married into the Kennedy family and who was elected governor based on the Cuomo legacy and Democratic machine. Cuomo JR hasn't the looks, charisma or the pedigree of a JFK jr and he made it and is aiming higher.

If he were alive and had any interest at all in politics there is no way a bush baby or trumpette would have been elected pres. He was a star and by birthright a future POTUS.

His sister was instrumental in getting Barry O to the front of the line in the Democratic party.

Unlike trumpette, Barry O did have prior political service, and was a Nobel Prize recipient! But he still needed that push, Caroline's advocacy made people pay closer attention to Barry O.

So no one is going to address the JFK Jr gay rumors. Straight women do not call their husbands fags when they get upset.

I just don't want this thread to end. Keep the pictures coming. I do think he really lurved D Hannah but his mama said I don't fucking think so. I was shocked to read here that Jackie wouldn't have approved of CBK. I figured she would have been perfect. Madonna and Jr.....lmfao. I'm quite sure they fucked and rightly so. But surely Madge never actually thought she'd marry into that whackjob family....

People like to think John Jr might have been gay(I would) but there hasn't been a hint of any kind of evidence.

He was a Kennedy. I'm sure he tried it all.

It's been so long that I forgot their relationship was like the 9th episode of every GoT season.

R524 "Straight women do not call their husbands fags when they get upset."

Where did this stupid come from?

[quote]It was people like O and Jr who made NYC their home for decades ( lived here, paid taxed here, advocated for NYC) that made NYC the place that you people have to live in or else.

Or else what?

Good thing she didn't breed. imagine the crap that kid would have had to put up with.

I read that the Clinton's put a contract out on him because he would have run against Hillary for NY Senator - and won

I hope you're joking r532. He died because he stupidly flew his plane at night in pitch blackness when he was only a visual pilot and not instrument-trained. It was the stupidest, most reckless thing anyone could've done without proper training and an accident waiting to happen.

Carolyn could have eaten crab apples through a tennis racket with those front choppers. Yeow!

R532, I wouldn't put it past her. Truth is always stranger than fiction.

One thing that she had in common with Jackie O...big assed feets...

R524, I think he experimented at some point, probably at college if you believe that gossip. He confided that to her. She weaponized that information.

Borderlines do that. They get you to tell them things in confidence and throw it back in your face.

[quote]"A couple of days before his plane trip, John told me, 'I'm going to tell Uncle Ted what's really going on - he'll know what to do.'"

Should have listened closer. You make sure you are out of harm's way before ditching the body in water.

How interesting that the Clintons put a hit out on JFK, Jr., but not on Barack Obama, who was clearly a political ROCKSTAR, and was bound to beat Hillary, no matter fucking what, and EVERYONE knew that he would be our next POTUS, following W, the moment he showed up on the horizon.

Some of you loons are more cookoo than Coco Puffs.

Yet another blog praising and detailing every aspect of their life...

"But what "pressure" did she have to handle? Being photographed? Or was there more? I don't get the "pressure" angle."

Then I'll explain it to you. Imagine you're a private citizen. You can come and go as you please without attracting undue attention. You have privacy. And then you become involved with one of the most famous people on the planet. And you marry him. Now you're followed everywhere by photographers; you walk outside and they're there. No matter what you do or where you got there is always someone out there watching you and trying to take your picture. You're photographed in embarrassing situations; in one photo your ass is showing, in others you're having a screaming fight with your famous boyfriend. Your appearance and behavior are constantly being scrutinized and commented upon. You're written about constantly and much of it is unflattering and derogatory. The gossip is unrelenting. Your personal life is held out there for the world to see. Your life is no longer your own. Doesn't sound like too much fun, does it? I don't think Carolyn Bessette relished her role as the wife of JFK Jr. I think, more often than not, it was an albatross around her neck.

John should have hired a experienced pilot, at least for assisting him as a co-pilot if he wanted to Fly. If he was inexperienced flying at night it was extremely reckless to endanger people’s life for his stubbornness of flying the airplane himself.

[quote]Borderlines do that. They get you to tell them things in confidence and throw it back in your face.

Which is why one tells others NOTHING!

Madonn' brother Christopher was interviewed on Howard Stern, and when Howard asked him what was the sex like between Madonna and JFK Jr, he said his sister told him John was like a child in the bed or something to that effect, implying that Madonna wasn't impressed by JFK jr' bedroom skills.

Madonna' brother

JFK Jr. Wanted Madonna To Pose As Jackie Kennedy Onassis! But Madonna politely turned down the offer

"Dear Johnny Boy. Thanks for asking me to be your mother but I could never do her justice. My eyebrows aren't thick enough, for one. When you want me to portray Eva Braun or Pamela Harriman, I might say yes! Hope you're well. Love, Madonna"

Madonna and JFK jr

I wonder if Madge is a good lover. Women like her tend to be boring fucks, so I’ve been told.

JFK Jr. was ridiculously gorgeous; he honestly was one of the most beautiful men ever. Who knows what did or did not happen in that relationship? R541 is 100% the voice of reason. For her, the marriage must have been Hell to live out minute by minute in the public eye - at least in LA you can hide to some degree. Not so much when you live in NYC and are married to the gorgeous Prince of the tabloids. I am sure that they both had wonderful qualities and also flaws just like the rest of us. They died young and for what it is worth - they will always be remembered that way.

Carolyn's mother Ann

JFK, Jr.'s last known recorded interview.

Ann has never talked about any of this in an interview. In one of those books written by John's friend, he said Ann said something inappropriate at the pre wedding dinner. I guess she didn't approve of the marriage. I would love to know what she really thinks of what happened.

R556 Carolyn B' family weren't excited or happy by the marriage.

With Julia Roberts

Rather odd photo of Carolyn and Lee Radziwill.

I wonder what Lee thought of Carolyn.

If Jackie thought Daryl Hannah was an unsuitable wife for her son, why did she let her daughter marry Ed Schlossberg.? Does anyone really know what Schlossberg does to earn a living?

JFK, Jr. became incensed with Ed Schlossberg after Jackie died and he began making Kennedy family decisions and assumed the role that JFK, Jr. thought should be his. JFK, Jr. was against the auction of Jackie's possessions, but Caroline was all for it and she pressured him to agree to it. Even though the auction raised millions, after taxes, JFK, Jr. received a check of just $100K, according to the book written by his personal assistant, Rosemarie Terenzio.

R541, the point of the person who posted that comment (I think) was, how could Carolyn truly have no idea she was going to be hounded by the press once she started dating JFK Jr? She was incredibly naive and/or dumb to really think that it wasn't going to happen.

with Mick Jagger

The Kennedy family put out the story of Carolyn being late for the flight due to getting her toenails done 3 times as damage control. As I recall, it first appeared "anonymously " in the NY Post a couple weeks after the crash. It may or may not be true but it seems like they were trying to trash her a bit to mitigate any liability against JFK Jr's estate. I think that explains a lot of the animosity her family has towards the Kennedys. Very unwise move on the part of the Kennedys as it seems to have backfired.

More importantly, did he really wear a wig?

I'm sure what she imagined being hounded by the press would be like was different from the reality.

I never knew he dated Julia Roberts. She looks so tiny in that photo @ R558. I thought she was a 6" giant as well.

^ That's 6'

R558 -- that's Dylan McDermot. They were in Steel Magnolias together.

Borderline Psychotic Cunt Stinkfish, who deserves no respect for being an opportunistic slut who ruined one of the sexiest men to ever walk the planet. Blame him for picking her, but she preyed on a guy with major issues. If she were a man we'd persecute her to no end.

Julia looks like a dream girl in that photo. So cute and sexy. John looks like a father's day sale model.

You're psychotic R571.

R573 Die, Frau!

Part 2

R558 That's Dylan McDermott, not John Kennedy. Are you also R310 and R75?

This is John Kennedy (before the nose job and wig) leaving my house one morning in 1982. We'd been up all night.

Kennedy did have nice legs. Imagen if he actually worked out.

"I can only imagine how nasty this thread would have been had she killed two people by being overconfident and negligent".

we have a winner here.

DL will never learn... but she is" the cunt, nasty bitch who destroyed our prince!".

Imagine losing your two daughters so tragically. Those poor Bessette parents.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R558, that's the actor Dylan McDermott with whom Julia was once engaged.

And at R554, Lauren's twin Lisa can be seen in the background in glasses.

John Jr was actually a Russian ballet defector. Life is truly stranger than fiction.

R571 = Bitter old Caroline Kennedy

didn't i read somewhere that caroline thought the reason her brother didn't postpone the trip to the following day, after the long delay into twilight, was that the Kennedys waiting for him (especially ethel's macho brood) would have castigated him as a wuss for wimping out?

I've never heard that R585. Doubtful it is true.

R585, most of Ethel's kids are nuts.

especially the dead ones

I love how these old queenies are having a meltdown when someone starts a thread about : Angelina or Carolyn . Jealous bitter bitches, you people are. HAHAHA.

Caroline was with her family on vacation someplace out west when John's plane went down. Obviously not planning on attending the wedding. It's always seemed that she didn't get along with her cousins from Bobby and Ethel's family very much and really only was close to the Shriver spawn.

How in the world could CBK be two hours late to her own wedding? What bullshit! No wonder Caroline disliked her. There's nothing worse than when a beloved sibling partners up with some cunt and you have to pretend to like them.

R590, people who aren't punctual are typically self-aborbed assholes anyways. Oh well!

R590 the wedding was the next day?

Different weddings.

Caroline is a stuck up bitch. Who cares if she likes you or not?

heirs to the estate?

When I think of the Kennedy's, I always immediately think of Caroline Kennedy.

She's just always the one who comes to mind.

I have no problem believing that Caroline Kennedy Schossberg is a snob to infinity.

[quote]There's nothing worse than when a beloved sibling partners up with some cunt and you have to pretend to like them.

There are [bold]many[/bold] worse things... Such as plunging into the ocean in a small aircraft.

I have read that Jackie and Sargent Shriver tried to keep there children away from their Kennedy cousins, especially Robert and Ethel's brood. Jackie and Shriver felt that most of the Kennedy grandchildren were undisciplined, even though both respected Joe and Rose Kennedy.

There is that famous story about one of the Shriver sons, who after falling down and skinning his knee, started to cry. One of RFK's sons told the crying child, "Kennedys don't cry."

"Maybe Kennedy don't cry," Shriver said as he tried to comfort his son, "but Shrivers do."

Compared to the Shriver children, most of Joe and Rose's grandchildren are underachivers.

Carolyn was more beautiful with darker hair