After watching my parents I can understand husband/wife murders

Maybe your dad should divorce her and marry a woman who appreciates him. Do they live in a community property state?

They're both too old for that and have too many issues. Dad may not be around a few years from now. They're kind of stuck with each other unless she decides she can't handle him and puts him in an assisted living home. They've been married forever.

Op - that’s my parents. Except my dad is the nasty one. He has health issues, so I think my mother is just waiting it out. If she divorced him, she’d have to give him half of her money. They are both retired, but my mother is more active and takes care of herself.

I had an aunt and uncle in a similar marriage. I went to visit them for a week once, and left after 3 days because I was about to kill them both. They were stuck with each other too, for worse and no better. Great people separately, unbearable together. Seriously, assisted living for your Dad might help make his last few years happier, if you find a nice place. Good luck.

It's so uncomfortable to visit them now. And more often than not I get pulled into it by my mother as she looks for someone to agree with her. "Look at this. Look what he does! Do you think this is ridiculous??" If I don't agree or just say something noncommittal, I get griped at too.

I mentioned assisted living to my mother and she just said she wouldn't do that to him. I'm thinking it would be much better for both of them, frankly, but she sees it as a betrayal.

[quote]They're both too old for that and have too many issues.

Oh. Well, it sounds like your mother is the problem. Have you considered poison?

My parents are the same way. I think after a while they just don’t let it bother them. They both talk crazy to each other but separately they are fine and are nice to others.

Oh, hon -- you haven't figured this out yet?

He LIKES it -- otherwise, he would have left her long ago. People do have choices, you know, as much as they like to say, "Oh I can't do X, and I have to do Y." There are always options.

NEXT!

Whenever my parents fought, I'd get worried they would get divorced. When I reprimanded them, they used to say "you shut the hell up! we can fight if we want! Damn you kids. Don't interfere. Who do you think you are"?(I was about 10).

They stayed married. Mellowed out with time.

R8 his mother was a lot like my mom. So I think he was used to it, in a way, because he grew up with it. But she's really gotten much, much worse lately, as his health issues have compounded and she can't depend on him anymore. She's retreated into this perpetual victim zone.

I'll bet dad is actually no prize himself, OP, but that he's the parent you always related to best. There are so many lazy, passive-aggressive men out there whose wives eventually lose it because they end up having to do everything for decades that the "henpecked man" trope is ridiculously overplayed and sexist. They probably deserve each other, as most longterm couples do.

Maybe she’s addicted to his cock? You should ask

R11 that sounds like you may be projecting there ;-)

Nah, R13, just observational, especially in older couples I know. Men over age 50 still have a lot of old-fashioned ideas about their leisure time, especially after they retire, while the wives are left to continue picking up the slack, usually take care of their husbands as their health goes to shit, keep track of family, run the household, bury the husband when he finally kicks it at which point a lot of women finally feel free to live their lives just in time to drop dead. It's sad but, hopefully, changing with younger generations.

The world of heterosexuals is a sick and boring life;.

Me mum is like this. Its soul killing

Hetero horror stories. Be glad you're not one of them.

Co-dependent. Til death do they part.

Scram when they start in, OP.

Do the math..how many times have you been in the middle of one of these episodes? If your dad was going to do something "horrible", it probably would have happened long ago. Don't play the saviour-when one of them is finally gone you'll resent the time from YOUR life spent on something you can't repair-sad but true.

Something I've noticed in women-many of them, once they're widowed, tend to 'husbandize' their sons. Fifty-one years in the soil and my mom still bitches and gripes about my dad like he died yesterday. I grew up with this, and I can tell you, I certainly could have done without it. My dad may have failed us all, but with my own struggles I grew to understand what he was about. I certainly didn't grow up hating him. My brother, like my mother, is content to blame every last trouble on anyone but himself, and like her, he resents our father deeply. Though he never really knew him at all (I'm the elder of us two).

Blahblah,tl;dr..don't go any deeper into this, OP. Be with them when conditions permit, maybe if you stay away for awhile it'll shake up their patterns, anything's possible. But don't count on it.

[quote]But she's really gotten much, much worse lately, as his health issues have compounded and she can't depend on him anymore. She's retreated into this perpetual victim zone.

She sounds scared. Maybe your father is too. My mother was like that when my father was dying. She was always a nag, but when his heath deteriorated she went a little nuts. He tried to diffuse his anxiety with gallows humor and that would set her off. I actually think that was comforting to him, like her complaining was what he was used to and it didn’t feel right to him if she was being too nice.

To be honest, I did the same thing when she was dying and I was the the one living with her, taking care of her. Of course, I didn’t realize she was dying, only that her health was getting worse. I assumed it was the beginning of a long slow slide with the start of chronic diseases ala Zha Zha Gabor. I didn’t understand some of her behavior, like saying she was hungry but then wouldn’t eat, even when I made her favorite foods. She complained to my sisters, facetiously just like my dad, that I didn’t feed her. Then I would complain to my sisters, out frustration at not being able to satisfy her and also irritation at what she said, like I was the victim. Turns out she had undiagnosed lung cancer and ended up fading quickly when she got pneumonia. I felt incredibly guilty afterwards.

Old age, illness, and the prospect of dying bring out strange reactions.

They are extremely easy to understand.

I have a female friend like this...she's gone through multiple relationships/marriages and she's only 43.

She loves to play the mental abuse card and I used to buy into it but I lived with her and husband #2 (or was it through 3?) for awhile and saw her in action. She nags and manipulates until they blow up then plays the victim and makes them feel shitty.

Out of 4 major relationships in 25 years, 2 of them are dead.

#BlackWidow

I have a very dear friend of 35 years and he is gay, with no partner or offspring to care for him, and he is very ill. So I go and visit him and as the care facility is very remote I stay overnight with his elderly parents from time to time before making the return trip. It is the most stressful experience being in the company of this vile couple. Both are in their 70s, the kitchen is cram packed with booze, they start drinking mid afternoon. I counted 30 bottles of wine in the racks last time, plus there are several bottles of spirits. I think more in the cellar. No one visits them. The booze is for their use. Both are borderline obese, stuffing their faces constantly, talking about food all the time. he is an angry, depressive and a mean drunk, and she is an hysteric, who alternates between controlling, suffocating behaviour and cold, mean, punitive behaviour. When sober he is silent, refuses to speak. When drunk he verbally abuses her and anyone else in the vicinity. She expects this abuse to go un-commented upon, and forgotten. Between them they destroyed my poor friend's chance of a happy life. He was always very anxious and sensitive, always trying to placate aggressive rude asshole type people, because that was how he learned to survive growing up with these two pigs.

R23 that's what my therapist said about me, that my tolerance for abusive people was much higher than a typical person because of how I grew up.

This type of thread makes me realise how admirable and tough many DLers are, having lived through all sorts of impositions and difficulties such as bereavements and caring for the sick. Love you lot.

R24 my friend got into a relationship with a guy who was just like his father - a gay version of his father. Another abuser. He was under this asshole's thumb for years. I hope your therapy was of much benefit to you.

[quote]maybe if you stay away for awhile it'll shake up their patterns, anything's possible

In my experience people's personalities and the way they view the world and relate to others are pretty much fixed from their twenties on. People's daily habits can change if they are particularly motivated to alter them, e.g. they might stop boozing or smoking, or take up a new hobby or fitness regime, so yes, perhaps fixed preferences like that can be shaken up, but the chances of someone's personality or behaviour towards others changing in mid-life or old age is about zero.

I'm set in my ways, sonny! Now get off my damn lawn!

Your parents relationship is super unique among heterosexual couples who have been married for a long time.

If only they would make a movie about relationships and couples like this so that we could better understand them....

Never heard of any relationship like this! It’s baffling...

Very unique

Too bad this topic has never been explored and probably never will be...

OP at his parent’s house every weekend...

R29 - r33 aka the "picture spamming thread killer" is demonstrating "cunting" for us, everyone! Look at it, in its natural habitat!

r29 - r33 has set a new low in cuntitude. You really are a hurtful, waste of oxygen, you pathetic excuse for a human being. Do us all a favour and off yourself you selfish bastard.

For you, [R34] and [R35]

1) OP has mommy issues

2) r29-33 + r36 has seen one movie in his adult life, and he's going to milk those gifs for all they're worth, dammit!

It *was* just some pointless bitchery and joking. Or (was) intended to be so anyway. Sorry if I upset you, OP!

(Slowly backing away from this thread now....)

Yeah if we grew up with an abusive parent, we do try and make excuses for abusive people. But after awhile I will stop seeing them.

OP, that's 95% of old married couples!

r14 Eh, if women are abusive then the victims deserve it, bullshit. Everyone knows that you can make a person useless by telling them they're useless. That's why it's such a popular strategy people use to build themselves up.

And silly me I thought this happened only to my parents. They’ve been married almost 50 years and their marriage is tough one. They are lovely great parents and grandparents but fighting spouses. The problem is you don’t see other couples fighting like your parents because everyone keeps front when others are around.

OP, you are describing my grandparents. My grandfather finally had enough abuse and died in his sleep while taking an afternoon nap. This only served to enrage my grandmother. My mother and aunt went immediately to her home to assist the new widow and both were shocked when she told them, "I don't know what that old man thought he was doing. I AM SICKER THAN HE WAS."

What can you say to that? The dutiful daughters were well aware of their mother's temper, but she still managed to take them by surprise with that one. It's not reason or logic that's going on. It's just the dark side of human nature lashing out at everything in its path.

A friend currently is struggling with both parents in separate nursing homes. They have been married for over 50 years, they are both institutionalized, and they are in the process of getting divorced. They know they are going to die, but, "I don't have to die married to YOU!"

Good luck, OP. Your mother is a cunt. And that will not change.

My parents are kind of like that as well. My dad is a serial cheater for one. He has cheated on her many times (with both men and women). She knows but she turns a blind eye and pretends it isn't happening. Mostly because she has health issues herself and is on disability so he provides the money.

He is also kind of controlling. He doesn't come right out and say "you can't do this" but he "encourages" her not to do certain things or talk to certain people, and if she does anyways then he acts all pissed off and gives her the silent treatment for a long period of time with an angry look on his face.

On top of that he is a big spender. He likes to live like a rich person (despite the fact he isn't) and buy everything he wants impulsively. They are constantly arguing over money, among other things. Every time my father leaves the room Mom talks shit about him. And every time my mom enters the room Dad's whole demeanor changes from laughing and joking around to not talking at all. It is obvious they are miserable together yet neither leaves. He likes to have someone he can control and bully around and she likes to be a victim and go into her "poor me" stage all the time.

So, classic co-dependency, r44.

That actually makes for a very stable (as in, long-lasting) relationship.

OP, my mother is probably borderline (BPD) and she has abused her boyfriend for 25 years. She did a real number on him, it makes me sick. Sort of Munchhausen-y, she convinced him and everyone that his extreme learned helplessness was Alzheimer’s.

Anyway, she was hospitalized and although he has some dementia (he’s 85!) he does NOT have Alzheimer’s (she’s been saying this for 15-20 years and if he really had it he’d be dead already but he’s healthy as an ox).

He was put in a nursing home while she was in the hospital. After she was released, she went to visit him at the VA home and asked if he’d like to come home with her. He said “NO, I LOVE IT HERE”.

When she told me this, I laughed my head off. I moved out of her house when I was 17.

R25 ;-)

[quote]And if you don't she holds a grudge like nobody's business.

I would take every chance I could find to get her to hold a grudge against me.

God. Why won’t Freak Fuck John just die already?

We can only hope Tiger Mom snaps and takes him in a murder-suicide.

Why any woman voluntarily gets married to a man these days, I don’t know.

My father literally talks over my mother and goes on long boring aggressive tirades about his day to her. He will also expect her to make his dinner and drinks and bring them to him, as well as buy his clothes and clean up his laundry. If he needs something he will yell her from another room. He also dismisses her with sneering comments and flips of the hand over dinnertable conversations and mock her friends. It enrages me that he does it and it makes me sad and angry that she just takes it, too. They’ve been married since ‘87, had me in the ‘90s and I don’t remember their marriage ever being much different than this. They both wanted to irk their parents and also combine their finances to move to a nice country house, I think.

I can’t wait for them both to kick the bucket so I can finally taste a fraction of the wealth they enjoyed in their prime, but I pray that he goes first no matter what. I fucking refuse to care for that withered prick in his dotage like my poor mother continues to do of her own insane voilition. It’s not happening to me.

My mother has always been a complainer and an energy vampire. She has an intense need to share her pain with others. When she has a problem, she'll complain to you for hours about it, and expect you to solve it, but then she'll shoot down every suggestion you offer.

She's always been high anxiety, but at about age 47, suddenly her behavior intensified. She believed she had a mystery illness and the doctors were keeping the diagnosis secret from her...just to be mean. About 5 years ago, she reached a conclusion that my father has been trying to kill her for the past 20 years. (She believes that he must have transmitted the mystery disease to her and is trying to cover his tracks by killing her.)

She's now 67. For 20 years, she's been "dying" from the mystery disease (doctors say nothing's wrong) and from my father's alleged attempts to kill her. She thinks my dad's the devil; she kicked him out of their home after 46 years of marriage. Even though he's not allowed back in the house, she still calls him several times a day and might keep him on the phone an hour at a time, accusing him of stuff (e.g. affairs) or complaining about her health problems. She's been "dying" for the past 25 years, and complaining about her impending death the WHOLE time. I think he's better off now that he's been kicked out of the house. He's still living in a temporary housing situation instead of a permanent home, but at least he has peace, and he can escape her by turning off his phone.

I feel bad for her, too. She really is terrified by this situation that exists only in her head. When you can keep her distracted from these hot topics, she's completely normal. But this situation has torn the family apart, and she refuses to take medication that might help. It's hard to be around her because you know she's going to spend 80% of the time complaining about the same unsolvable shit she's complained about 1000 times.

So many horrible marriages out there - gay and straight. That’s why I refuse to get married - even after 18 years. Knowing that either of us could get up and leave if disrespected is a good control mechanism for not treating each other like that. Marriage creates that feeling of trapped-ness that I think is horrible for relationships. Of course, coming from parents who had a horrible marriage (until the kids grew up and moved out) probably affects my opinion. But I’ve seen it too many times - a good relationship becomes toxic after the marriage because one or both feel like they can dump their misery on the other instead of dealing with it themselves. Stop buying into the fantasy of marriage.

Men and women are so different from each other. I can see how straight people can fall in love with each other for a few years, but I don't understand how they can stay together for decades after the "love" hormones wear off. Of course, many of them stay together because of religion, desire to keep family together for kids, fear of change.

I suspect that we'll find the same is true for gay marriage.

Society shames those who are without partners, that many people stay in a bad relationship out of fear of being alone.

R51 that's similar to my mother. She's convinced she is going to get or has Alzheimer's, she's developed paranoia someone is out to get her or doing things to her in her sleep. She gets super angry if you disagree with her or try to talk logically about it. Now their house is like Fort Knox, alarm systems, cameras, even with barricades in front of some doors. Yet this mysterious home invader has never been captured on camera or in person. She refuses to take any medication that may help. She complains all the time about my father and I don't think she even realizes she's doing it sometimes.

Watch out, OP!

R54, I think my mother has "delusional disorder"; it's classified by non-bizarre delusions. Non-bizarre delusions are scenarios that could actually happen, though they're unlikely. The person won't give up the delusion. Logic and reasoning doesn't work; it just makes the person angry. Experts say don't argue with the person about the delusion. But don't agree with them either. Simply change the subject if you can. Because the person acts relatively normal when they focus on something else.

There are five types of delusional disorder. It sounds like persecutory type is the type that is affecting my mom (and maybe yours). My mother also has somatic type (belief in a medical defect). The best resource I have found is the "delusional disorder" message board on the psychforum website. Reading the stories of the other posters will at least let you know you're not alone. There is no cure for this disorder. Some people show improvement with anti-psychotic meds, but it's almost impossible to get the person to take medication when they don't believe anything is wrong with themselves.

Have you ever met someone who was so touchy that you had to be super, super careful what you said because they'd take it the wrong way even if no sane person would? And even then you don't know what's going on in their heads because they come up with scenarios where you are insulting them in some manner - they are always on edge, scanning for offense and quick to anger. And you can't reason with them, logic does not work, they will shout you into silence if you even try. The only way to deal is to repress your emotions and not say anything and just get away as soon as you can. It's like living with a live grenade. Years of therapy and I'm still fucked up from growing up with that.

OP, you say your mother has gotten worse in recent years, as your father's health goes downhill. IMHO the reason she's ramped up the complaining and guilt is because she feels overwhelmed by the task of both caring for your father and trying to keep the house in order as her own energy fades. She feels inadequate in both roles and is terrified of the future, when your father will need full-time nursing care that she is not physically or financially capable of providing.

And OP, by ramping up the drama and constantly crying the nobody helps her... her real goal is to get YOU to do more to help your aging parents!

Which you really ought to do out of common humanity, but first have a talk with your mother about how counterproductive her behavior is. She needs you, yet she's actually driving you away.

R58 I've tried talking, reasoning, cajoling, logic, emotional pleas, it doesn't work. I think the only thing that might help is medication but she refuses to even consider it. She had significant personality disorder+depression issues before this and yeah his health problems have made it worse. She depended on him for things that she's now having to do herself and she is BITTER and angry about it. Of course he depended on her for a lot, the above poster talking about men his generation expecting her to do a lot for him post retirement is accurate. He did work long hours for decades though. There was a sense of balance before this.

I'm helping as much as I am willing but I have my own major issues at the moment that I'm trying to resolve. Luckily I have a sibling who is also around. I can't imagine having to do this on my own.

Op, why not pull your mom to the side and tell her to stop putting your dad down. What he does might as well be ridiculous and she can think that way, but the vitriol isn't needed and surely not kind.

R58, you are a piece of work. You don't know these people and you don't get an opinion on what the problem is and you especially do not get an opinion on what OP is going wrong.

WTF is the matter with YOU?

"doing wrong" not "going wrong"

Ack!

R57 Yes! One of my older brothers. He's unemployed and listens to right wing radio all day. He is impossible.

None of these things justify homicide.

My dad was a bit of an asshole. But he loved my mom. And his second wife who he married after my mother died. In fact he was married to her the longest. In fact his 2nd wife I loved her too - she provided the foil to his assholery. When she died he remarried a few years later - the 3rd wife left his ass. Shortly after that I'd cut off all contact with my father.

R64 thank you, Connie Conscience. No one said they did.