Appreciation for the divine Duchess Camilla daughter-in-law of the British Queen and her unbelievable fashion sense

It was also the perfect hat to hide her from the lip reading British press always ready to snip at the snark...and she is the QUEEN of snark

Cuntess of Cornwall

Damn, Prince Charles looks ancient in that photo in the OP.......it must chap his ass that his mother has lived so long. At least William wont have to wait so long......

She's awesome and incredibly funny....very wicked sense of humor.

Did you even know that?

[quote]Did you even know that?

"even"???

Dial down the hostility, Blanche.

Great color choice. It's pretty.

Is it Blush or is it Bashful?

R4, yes dear. She's the QUEEN of snark and holder of the royal tampon.

On another thread somebody posted something along the lines of 'where is the hat farm where Camilla's hats are raised?' or something like that... I'm still chuckling. She does like a mushroom cap.

Prince Charles is no genetics lottery winner in the looks department, himself...but that lady has always looked like a badger.

That was one of DL's finest lines, R9. I also loved the bit about George's movie preview and how he finds a new lease on life after being taken for a walk by his niece. Great fun to be had in between the oh-so-serious haters and chatterbots

I suppose, for all that they caused a lot of pain along the way, it's quite romantic that Charles and Camilla are still together. He chose her over his prettier, younger, more popular wife, even though it did a lot of damage to his public image.

She's a good sport!

They say she is quite funny and down to earth...my favourite thing I ever heard about her is she is lazy as the day is long. I love lazy people. They make me feel better about myself.

They were more compatible and he was being held to some ridiculous standard re: virginal bride and appearance of romance. His romance with Camilla set the stage for Harry and Meghan because divorce was acceptable for the royal brides of those in line for the throne. I used to dislike her, but there's no mistaking this lady can carry off those insane hats and all the jewels.

She sure likes that necklace.

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Hanging out with Blondie!

Charles is my fellow Scorpio, so I have a soft spot for him. It's clear that they have a real love match: you can't mistake how much they enjoy each other's company. I'm old, they're old. Diana isn't here anymore. Let them be happy.

I love that she lives in a separate home so he can do all the fussy things he loves while she gets to let her grandkids run wild. Ideal for that time in life when you no longer have the patience for the demanding jerk you married, but still love him anyway.

I love her. Dry British wit and drama free. I'm glad Charles got to be with the one he loves. He's a spoiled self-pitying Prince, but he has not had it easy in many ways.

Now that's a hat!

Her young-girl figure gone, now she is of a matronly build, carrying it well. Perfedt size fade and hair for big hats. She will be a lovely Queen.

She's got her own style and in that stodgy group that's kind of a miracle.

Her great-grandmother, Alice Keppel, was the favorite mistress of King Edward VII . She broke into hysterics at his deathbed.

^ well, those looks got watered down.

[quote]She sure likes that necklace.

She has "that necklace" in several different configurations: Four strands of pearls hanging on a ridiculously large oval semi-precious stone. Bitch likes her jewels!

Candice Bergen should play her in a movie!

Let's hear it for the footman who shaped Camilla's hat out of coffee filters and crepe paper at the last minute

You know, when Camilla finally came in from the barn, drunk and smelling like sweat and horse shit, the morning of the wedding

And they HAD to find something presentable to squeeze her dried-up old, ciggy-ash body into something presentable

I love Camilla. She knows at least 1/3 of the population actively dislikes her but she just shrugs, grins, lights up a ciggie and goes messing about with horses and grandchildren.

[quote]she just shrugs, grins, lights up a ciggie and goes messing about with horses and grandchildren.

Her exultant cackle is the result of knowing that she's got the Heir to the Throne by his (miniscule) balls.

lol thank you r9 - that line was perfect & hilarious.

I did think it was oddly fluffy / distracting.

But that's her... she's a size queen...

[quote] size queen...

Then how could she be with Charles??

Pretty amazing when you think that Charles has loved her forever, and she him. How many people are that fortunate? I bet they'd be great to have as friends, especially at a party. I like them both.

She looks good especially after she gave up the fags.

She's no longer a Fag Hag ?

Dont even try to sell me on her. Home wrecking Predator.

Those hats are far too good for her.

....

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I like her too. In the end she got her man. She’s not exactly an oil painting yet still he wanted her over the Diana who was much younger and beautiful.

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The Rottweiler scheming, conniving evil piece of shit looks like Dame Edna.

In all seriousness, I have long appreciated how Charles will wear something, a tie or pocket kerchief, that is of the main color of Camilla's outfit. In many ways, the Waleses complement each other.

R18, I'm also a Scorpio, which is why I could totally understand Charles's caution-to-the-winds obsession with the earthy, sexual Camilla.

That isn’t Camilla, R41.

R41, That's a Chilean named Lucia Santa Cruz, whom Charles met as an undergraduate.

R43. He's Wales. She's Cornwall. She ain't Wales.

Horses and smoking and lazy. I bet she smells bad.

She is dispised by a majority of the British people, who will never forgive her role in undermining the People's princess, HRH Diana.

Camilla reminds me of Caterina Caselli, the Italian singer. Both are ugly as sin.

[quote] R45 That isn't Camilla

[quote] r46 That's a Chilean named Lucia Santa Cruz, whom Charles met as an undergraduate.

But....the Internet SAYS it is ! !

Here's young Camilla. This is perhaps the only pic she's ever looked good in. Good angle, I guess.

Like she's dressed any different from a black woman in church...

More young Camilla. She'd look better with her mouth closed (like in the previous pic):

No. Just...no.

I believe those who say she's witty and has a great personality...

I don't think any is as hated as she is. I don't think Charles would dare making a divorced adulterous Queen.

Her NOT so good angle...

She a man? ^^

Yuck.

Wasn't her brother Anthony Shand-Kyd some hottie? I think Caroline Kennedy was after him at one point.

She looks a lot like Lynn Redgrave at R52

Younger than springtime - and twice as exciting!

I always thought she was hiding a fifth of vodka under those big hats with a flexible straw, for emergency purposed of course.

[quote]r58 She a man?

EXHIBIT A:

I have much more appreciation for the team of people who get the old hag up every morning, get some food in her, throw her in a steam room to sweat out last night's booze, her her dressed and made presentable, only to do it again and again. Those are the folks who deserve appreciation.

That last picture shows what I've always thought about Diana. She was not a particularly pretty girl. That big honker nose, that obvious under bite. Thankfully she was able to make herself look attractive, but never pretty.

With brown hair, Diana would be an average big nosed English chick. Not stunning, not ugly, just average.

What was a “take care of me” vibe, like Natalie Portman in all those girl-woman roles, and a touch of the self-pitying, crazy victim, like Judy Garland, which made her a very attractive public figure.

Camilla was never anything to really look at, but that's not what Charles loved and appreciated about her. She apparently can ride quite well, loves the country life, and is a calming influence on him.

I've never been her biggest fan, but do love her 'no fucks to give' attitude.

I am not a fan of Camilla or Charles but if there was ever a fairy tale it was those two. I have never understood the people who believe she broke up a marriage that was never a marriage but an arrangement. I will always believe that Diana knew what she was getting into but in her naivety she really believed she could dispatch Camilla. not because she loved Charles (I do not believe she ever loved him) but because she thought herself better than Camilla. I think her bitter pill was that Charles and Camilla loved each other while she never quite able to find that love for herself.

I've got a bit of a soft spot for her, for two reasons.

1) The extended love story with the happy ending delayed until they're old and gray, but happy anyway.

2) When it comes to clothes and jewels, she clearly has no fucks to give! She'll wear the biggest goddamn hat and the gaudiest jewels because she LIKES big goddamn hats and gaudy jewels, not because that's what looks good on her. Fun actually is more important than looks or appearances, so few public figures realize that.

She's not wearing a ruby the size of a golf ball because it goes with her outfit, that's for damn sure.

R66 /69 , so nice of you to comment. After Hiking your caftan and wiping the cheese From your little cocks , with sagging balls.

What a bitch.

No one in the RF appreciates this cunt save simpering Charles who needs constant praise and coddling to make it through each day.

I wouldn't call that great fashion sense, more like a shrimp platter.

A raving beauty! Snort!

Without makeup.

[quote]I am not a fan of Camilla or Charles but if there was ever a fairy tale it was those two. I have never understood the people who believe she broke up a marriage that was never a marriage but an arrangement. I will always believe that Diana knew what she was getting into but in her naivety she really believed she could dispatch Camilla. not because she loved Charles (I do not believe she ever loved him) but because she thought herself better than Camilla. I think her bitter pill was that Charles and Camilla loved each other while she never quite able to find that love for herself.

God, what a load of crap. Camilla was a homewrecker, no way around it. People with class and morals don't have sex with other people who they know are married to someone else. Only whores do that. You don't interfere with someones marriage just because you have the hots for them. Its tacky and déclassé.

[quote]. I will always believe that Diana knew what she was getting into... Diana was only 19 when she got engaged to Prince Charles, hardly any world experience. Camilla was already an old hag, I think Camilla was the one who knew what she was doing.

[quote]I think her bitter pill was that Charles and Camilla loved each other while she never quite able to find that love for herself. I would have helped if Charles had not forced her to pop out to royal kids since Camilla, his side whore, eggs were dried up. Bitter pill indeed, more like bitter twat.

[quote]God, what a load of crap. Camilla was a homewrecker, no way around it. People with class and morals don't have sex with other people who they know are married to someone else. Only whores do that.

Darling, you reveal yourself. That attitude is for the underclasses, kept in their place by conventional tittle tattle and poisoned by the opiate of religious morality.

I admit, they can make the old nag somewhat presentable, with a little lacquer and war paint. But God in Heaven what she must look like when she first arises in the morning. I hope she and Charles have separate sleeping arrangements and she has sense enough to get done up before she emerges from her chambre.

Oh Please R79, not cheating on your significant others is not some middle class value. In fact, I think it was espoused at the very wedding Camilla was attending. You know, love honor, respect to death do you part?

You don't believe in that shit, fine, but then don't expect me to buy your crap about a fairy tail love story between Camilla and Charles. You cant have it both ways.

Out of the whole crew, I bet she's the one with the keenest observations and most hilarious put-downs.

I'd love to hear her views on Harry's wedding.

The hats are getting burlesque though... she's starting to parody herself.

83 comments and a lot of crossfire about the Diana-Charles-Camilla debacle, but not a word about how disastrously William and Harry were affected by Charles and Camilla's actions. The only defence one can offer to Camilla is that she could not let Charles into her bedroom unless he was there, knocking on the door. But she could have told him to go home. And she didn't.

It can't be easy being the heir to the throne. Charles has a lot to put up with. If he married Diana and two children with Diana, he could have kept his pants zipped until those two children were grown. If he was being a horny Scorpio and chasing Camilla, she could have told him, "Not now, dear."

They both behaved deeply selfishly and those two boys were hurt extremely badly because of it. So fuck Charles and Camilla. They don't have a story book romance. It's more of a Jackie Collins novel.

And how can she look at that awful fucking hair style for 50 years and still fail to see how bad it is? It was bad when it, and she, were new. Neither have worn well. As a combination, her hair and her face are lethal.

Camilla dresses the way my grandmother used to dress her toilet.

At times it appears she's stopped wearing the hats and is having her milliners slap some feathers on her old hat boxes instead. Ever the thrifty one, that gal.

[quote]but not a word about how disastrously William and Harry were affected by Charles and Camilla's action

A member of the wealthiest family in the world are forced into arranged marriage which collapses; he returns to his first love and divorces.

Their sons were educated at the best school in the land, are blessed with boundless financial, medical and familial support, have their pick of eligible sexual partners aren’t really expected to work for a living apart from part time “charity work”.

Boo fucking hoo.

It is a totally banal story if not for the wealth and media whoring of all parties involved.

Charles and Camilla were a thing. Everyone in their social circle including Diana and Camilla's husband knew it. In fact Camilla's husband basically said he took one for the team. Diana agreed to marry him and birth heirs knowing this.

Camilla is 👒 [italic] FABULOUS !

Actually, I read that her first husband was considered quite a catch and something of a womanizer. And he broke her heart when she found out he was messing around. So, I don't think he cared what she was up to.

R85, thank you so much for that great laugh! (Is that really your gran's toilet?)

Oh, he undoubtedly cared, R90, a great many straight men think it's okay for husbands to cheat and not wives.

If so, she certainly showed him!

R12, I've always felt the same. She was willing to let another woman have the fame and wealth, while she settled for a relationship in the closet...as long as she could be with the man. And she was discreet about it, too.

I like her hat. It reminds me of elementary school, when on Valentine's Day, we'd use pink tissue paper to make paper carnations.

Camilla is a horse in a dress!

I think there are lots of shades of grey in this threesome (though not fifty.). While Diana may have known about Camilla she was 19 year old girl marrying a 32 year old man. She plainly expected that a husband would be faithful. The mismatch was epic but it's not fair on the girl she was to imagine she too was ready to take one for the team. She expected entirely differently and was didn't contemplate otherwise. I'm not saying it was realistic, given everything going on, but that's how she entered into it, she made that plain.

Well for what is worth R95, one of sisters warned her but she obviously did not listen. I was 16 when they married but remember very clearly the interview where Charles basically admitted he did not love Diana. I asked my mother why would she marry him knowing this. I can only wonder if she thought some kind of way she would win him over or perhaps she thought being a Princess was enough until of course it wasn't.

It does sound like the Palace may have learned enough from their mistakes to give William's marriage a bit of support, that is, giving his wife a bit of breathing room. Really, if they'd set out to arrange a marriage for him, with someone who would be supportive and fertile and who wouldn't try to hog the spotlight, they could hardly have done better!

Charles has also married someone supportive and who doesn't try to hog the spotlight, which gives Mrs. Harry a clear shot at getting the spotlight entirely to herself!

You can leave at any time, shit stirrer @ R97.

R47, What? Charles is Prince of Wales, and Camilla is his wife. The Walkers.

The Waleses.

[quote] remember very clearly the interview where Charles basically admitted he did not love Diana.

Here it is.

Warning, warning. Red alert. Red alert.

Camilla is a hideous vile creature!

Camilla looked like Tammy Grimes (in photo) when she was young.

Camilla needs to be played by Tori Spelling some day, when she gets ever older and more ragged.

The blood of Princess Diana are on Camilla's hands.

Diana couldn't help hogging the spotlight. She was only 19 and suddenly without knowing it she became a media sensation.

Her killer instincts for attracting publicity were just that. Something she was born with and didn't even know she possessed.

The royal family didn't know and this staid stodgy dignified old house suddenly had a supernova whirlwind in it's midst like an old cliché ridden musical comedy.

It should have ended before she became aware, manipulative and ultimately self destructive. And before Charles' resentment at being upstaged turned ugly.

Charles and Camilla should've been allowed to marry way back in the 70s.

Does she still smoke?

[quote] The blood of Princess Diana are on Camilla's hands.

How vivid AND how ungrammatical!

Charles and Camilla are scum. They set out to ruin Diana's marriage before it even begun. At 19/20 years old, Diana did not know that these two would work to destroy her marriage and ruin her family. Charles and Camilla are still scum even though they're not ruing anyone's lives at the moment. The damage is done. They are never forgiven. And Charles couldn't give a shit about his sons at the time even though he's the doting daddy now.

Diana should have stood up and walked out when Charles said in the interview. "whatever love means." He's a piece of shit to say that in an interview that was played around the world. WTF is wrong with him that he felt compelled to insult the woman to whom he just proposed? Entitled motherfucker. Diana knew? She was 19. Stop. He was 32. He's cruel and classless, Camilla should have backed away. She was not the wife. The two of them think their shit doesn't stink. But all these years later, they stink more than ever because they think they're respectable. They never will be.

R110, you ae just as naive or as stupid as Diana. It was never a "marriage" it was an arrangement. Diana either believed in the scripted fairytale that was being sold by the media or more likely she believed that being a Princess was going to be enough. Even without Camilla this was not going end well. Loveless marriages rarely do,

This is one of her best. Stylish and practical.

[quote] The royal family didn't know and this staid stodgy dignified old house suddenly had a supernova whirlwind in it's midst like an old cliché ridden musical comedy.

Block that metaphor!

R110 needs to get a grip on reality.

Bitter, Bitter, Bitter...............

Why didn't you propose to Diana?

R107 is correct.

If QEII had just let her son just marry the woman he loved even though she wasn't a virgin, half of fucking England would be better off.

I actually love a lot of Camilla's daytime clothes and hats. They are elegant and expensive-looking, and would look amazing on almost any slim, attractive woman. Camilla could improve her look immensely if she would at least wear a decent bra.

I know that Camilla has many good qualities. She does her job admirably, is scandal-free, appears to make Charles happy, gets on with everyone, is a loving grandmother and no doubt more. Yet it is so wrong that she profits from the death of a woman whose life she made a misery, a death in which she shares some of the blame. It is wrong for people to buy their happiness at the expense of another's pain.

[quote]A member of the wealthiest family in the world are forced into arranged marriage which collapses

Collapsed in large part because Charles and Diana were completely incompatible and Diana was dealing with severe emotional and mental problems that would test a saint.

The woman once cut herself and purposely smeared her blood on the walls. She threw herself down the stairs when she was pregnant, bulimia and so much more. That is straight from her own mouth. Then there is the stuff she didn't want to admit to. Like obsessively calling/stalking married men she had crushes on and making cunty comments to the nanny Charles hired to help him take care of William and Harry. Even though having nanny help is absolutely typical and something they both used. But Diana was so mental she got jealous about it when Charles did it.

I am not saying Diana didn't have good qualities. Of course she did. But she was out of her tree a lot of the time and especially when it came to the men in her life. Why Charles continues to be blamed for Diana's mental health issues, after all that is known, thanks to Diana herself, is baffling to me.

R117, you raise an interesting point. It would appear that Diana should have moved on to having a successful relationship after leaving Charles. Yet she did not. The reason that did not happen is probably because of the things R118 wrote. Were Charles and Camilla meant to live an unhappy life because Diana did?

Fuck! Thx R77 = LMAO = Love DL on form!

Agree with the two most recent posts. I don't understand what DIana had to kick about while still married to Charles. She had the name, title, and money. She had already moved on with several lovers early in the marriage - so she did her own thing as well. I do remember reading somewhere that she even slyly hinted at Charles being a dud in bed. So what was the problem? It was her desire to control the people and events around her to her own satisfaction which drove her in a perilous direction completely opposite her own best interests. The cutting, throwing self down steps, histrionics - all control mechanisms disguised as "cries for help." She was spoiled. She was scheming. She was very, very manipulating. Scorned, she turned it all into a 'battle royale," and played hard ball, but to her own demise. The telling piece of information lies in the fact that after all which occurred between these three year after year, was the fact that she was completely blind-sided when the Queen demanded she and Charles divorce. Remember, she stated in her Bashir interview that she did not want to divorce (assuming she was honest). Again, she had it all but threw it all away because she could not control it to her own liking.

No, R91. That photo is merely representative. I have no photos of my late grandmother's toilet. Only vivid memories. Pink, green, yellow, white, blue. She had them all.

When I saw that ridiculous pink hat riding on Camilla's head on the day of the wedding, it was a Proustian moment, with Camilla's hat being my madeleine. It really looks like an old lady's toilet seat cover.

Love the Proustian reference, R85. I confess I had never before seen such elaborate toilet décor. At most, I have seen little rugs surrounding the toilet made of synthetic 'fur' in pastel shades.

According to recent gossip, having to live with Charles is as good a karmic punishment as any.

R51, You read only the Search Engine clue, but one needs to read the article attached. Not Camilla.

I really think Camilla is a drag man and Charles is gay.

I always felt Charles was gay. He never seemed really into any of the women he dated. And Bowles seems like the best friend imaginable for him. Knows his deepest secrets and would never betray him under any circumstances. I mean all these royal men in Europe and none are gay even among the young?

It's way upthread, but hilarious called out "Did you even know that?" with "Dial down the hostility" but gave "Cuntess" a pass.

A true slitfish twat.

Isn't 'Did you even know that?" Little Edie?

Hunny, Camilla doesn't do dramatic or glamorous or sexy in her fashion choices.. So she goes for outfits that are both formal and have a sense of elegance, and have whimsy and project fun. There's a saucy insouciance to Camilla that projects warmth and accessibility. She is not stiff and formal, more like reserved. That is my sense of her fashion sense.

Plus she's got those big, swinging, hanging tits to worry about so there's only so much she can do.

Everyone, including Diana, knew that Charles would be forever in love with Camilla.

But Diana chose to marry Charles anyway.

R127, if Charles were gay he would have been brought up to keep it a deep dark secret, but I still don't think so. There's the "tampon call", for one thing, and the lack of any handsome "best friend" or "secretary" or gentleman of the bedchamber.

Simple lack of passion towards the opposite sex isn't enough to convince me a person is gay, particularly when they're forbidden to show any feelings towards the wrong sort. And really, I have a bit of sympathy for both Charles and Diana, because the Palace placed so damn many restrictions on who he could marry that it was basically impossible for him to make a happy first marriage. Since he was told to marry someone with no life experience he was basically restricted to kids, girls he had nothing in common with and whose personalities were so unformed he couldn't tell what he was getting into, and who couldn't understand the sort of arrangement he required.

Really, if they'd just allowed him to marry Camilla when they were young, everyone involved would be better off.

Back in the 70s, Camilla was considered unsuitable as the wife of the heir to the throne because she had a reputation as a bit of a party girl.

Anyone who refers to someone else as "slitfish" fully deserves to be blocked forever.

Charles had no desire to marry this cunt when they were young and she was available.

Exactly R134. Camlla would alwayss have become more or less what she was with Andrew Parker Bowles. The smoking, cavorting, ride to hounds sort she is in the Princess Margaret vein would never have performed for The Firm and met public, Commonwealth and/or viscious British tabloid expectation the way Diana initially did.

Charles and the Palace and circumstancesof the role then and now needed a fertile "princess" in every sense of that, not just title.

"saucy insouciance" - ain't THAT some shit.....Charles was way too uptight as a young man - way to absorbed in protocol and social grace, etc - I doubt it was years into the future before he even had an idea of who he really is as an individual - reference that video before he and DIana were married, she in the black strapless gown while Grace Kelly stood between them - Grace put her arm around Diana as Charles leaned in and all the sudden Grace removed her arm, trying to play it off she'd just been scolded - I can just hear him now "DON'T TOUCH HER! Mummy wouldn't like it!" haha Someone forgot to tell him to loosen up all those years ago.

I've always hoped the cancer rumors about Camilla were true.

After watching the wedding my partner announced that Camilla appears to be suffering from Parkinson’s.

does camilla have any children of her own?

Yes.

You are so right OP ... right on her unbelievable fashion taste ... since it's unbelievable that a normal human being with the face of a horse would wear silly pink feathered hats.

Charles was physically awkward and inept but as I recall he had a very active "social life" with the ladies back when he was a young man. In fact his Uncle Dickie Mountbatten encouraged it. Mountbatten was a poof, and a voyeur, and Charles' sexual adventures were something he enjoyed vicariously. But Charles always had a roving eye, in fact he was on the road towards becoming a lecher and Camilla has rescued him from that at least. While I had enormous sympathy for Diana, I have to give Charles his due. He is and was a very good father.

[quote]After watching the wedding my partner announced that Camilla appears to be suffering from Parkinson’s.

I noticed what I thought could be a tremor, too.

If a person goes on the wagon for excessive drinking, that can cause the trembling too. So can certain medications. It's not uncommon with older people, and isn't Camilla a year or two older than Charles? None of them led a particular healthy lifestyle. She smoked like a chimney for years. They are both heavy drinkers for years. It's part of the culture of that social set. Everyone drinks a lot, including William and Harry. I think Kate Middleton was a smoker at one time and stopped after she got married. Harry was a heavy smoker too.

I think Harry and Camilla still smoke, they just claimed to quit for PR reasons.

Lots of Royal Family members have been smokers, but most tried to hide it from the public. Princess Margaret was the exception, she smoked like a chimney in public and didn't give a rat's ass.

We call her "The Smiling Duchess."

She's so sincere, so kind.

I don't think Charles is gay. He is just introverted and sensitive. If he were a gay man, he probably would have appreciated Diana more. And Diana probably would have kept up the 'happily ever after" sham longer. I think she could have dealt with a lavender marriage...but not a man who was in love with another woman, especially an older, arguably less attractive woman.

Harry and Kate Middleton stopped smoking because of George and now the other kids. Harry can't smoke around the kids and Meghan is anti smoking.

R118 is dead-on. There's a reason William, Harry and Kate (and now Meghan) have such a huge focus on mental health issues - because of Diana, who was unhinged, dangerous and unpredictable. That woman was ready to take down the monarchy if she needed to, just to "win" this awful public fight that she started.

She did have amazing qualities - aside from being such a magnetic personality in the media - and she genuinely wanted to help people. But she wasn't able to help herself first, and that's why mental illness will remain at the forefront of those kids' work for some time.

And what was wrong exactly with taking down the monarchy?

She was always ahead of her time.

Public fight that she started? Oh, please.

Diana would've had mental health issues no matter what. Even if she'd been an anonymous housewife in the countryside, she would've had problems.

Everyone in the royal family has mental health issues.

They put them in straight jackets away from the cameras.

Diana's behavior reminds me of my own mother's. She was extremely sensitive, and got too upset about little things, and she tried to make me her therapist at times, even though I didn't understand the things she was telling me. I think Diana was paranoid and slightly delusional, as she believed the royal family was spying on her and wanted to assassinate her. (They would have known they'd be the first to be accused if she died mysteriously). I thought it was unreasonable in her TV interview to try to convince the people to pressure Charles to give up his space in line. I guess she assumed that when William became king that she would continue to share his spotlight, while Charles would be ignored. If she were alive today, I wonder if she'd get along with her sons' wives. I also think that she wouldn't have been able to handle aging gracefully. Would she be stuffed with fillers by now?

How is it that her hair always looks like feathers? Is Camilla really some type of unknown bird species?

Diana was gas lighted by Charles.and then the family as a means to justify Charles' cruel behavior toward her. All this mental BS talk. Pity that she'll be gas lighted into eternity.

Camilla's feathers danced throughout the wedding ceremony as the bitch desperately required a few G 'n Ts.

R158 is correct. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Diana, included.

But her response has to be measured against the enormous pressure put on her by the injustice of what her husband and his family did to her and expected of her. She was never treated as 50% of that marriage. She was treated as an insignificant prop in someone else's drama.

Even when she was at her supposed worst, her actions, seen within the totality of the shitty circumstances, were entirely reasonable.

She became crazy. But a lot of people would have under the circumstances. She was already damaged by her parent's marriage. And as a matter of survival she had to have one that worked.

She didn't and it was in front of the entire world against a monarchy. That is really going to fuck seriously with anybody's head.

A basically good person thrown under the bus by a powerful institution.

OK. Charles was forced or coerced into a marriage he didn't want. Camilla was al ready married but then they started back up again. He was wrong to do what he did to Diana. She was definitely a victim. Having said that I think Diana was always an emotionally fragile child who grew into an emotionally fragile, unstable woman. She seemed to live in her own head with this fantasy that she would marry her Prince Charming and live happily ever after. She had a crush on Prince Charles for several years before they actually got together. It was to be her very own fairytale. She was 19, and came from a broken home and Charles misused her emotionally. He could not cope with her, and probably felt tremendous guilt when she died, because he had to be a father, to step up, and his sons were raised by an unstable woman who locked herself in the toilet and cried with William sitting outside the closed door begging her to please stop and passing her notes. Lots of turbulence. I give Charles all the credit for being a good father for them after she died. I don't criticize Diana at all. I just think it was a bad match from the get go, and a lot of that was because of Charles and a lot of it was because of Diana's emotional immaturity and instability.

I would love to know what he thinks about that whole marriage now--whether he admits he did the wrong thing by marrying her.

I think "The Firm" learned it's lesson with Diana and with the exception of the William and Harry realize the whole thing was a mistake.

Oh no, William never would have been allowed to marry. someone like Markle.

Oh, they've learned from their mistakes all right, they're giving Will and Kate some breathing room and letting them be a happy family together, and letting Kate have some maternity leave.

They've also accepted the inevitability of divorces within the royal family, which is why they're letting Harry marry the climber.

Charles and Diana were never gonna work. Camilla or no Camilla. They had nothing in common and were just completely incompatible. That’s no ones fault, it just is.

People can argue he could have tried harder to make it work but you can force someone to love another person. And I don’t think Diana ever really loved him either. She may have had some schoolgirl ideas about love and fairy tales but she barely knew him when they got married.

It was just unfortunate for both of them and it’s ridiculous to expect him to pay the price for the situation just because some butt hurt Diana fans can’t get over it.

That's the thing, R167. For all the troubles the palace and the royal lifestyle caused those two, the real problem in their marriage was... Charles and Diana.

William does seem to have learned from his parents' mistakes, at least he married someone he actually knew.

Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge must have got a good look at William's penis and decided she could be happy her entire life with it. She did seem happy about having a baby again. I bet she will have at least two more. Why not. They can afford all the nurses they need. AS for doing the work, come on. They do engagements. Show up and listen to people, ask a few intelligent questions you've been prepped for, and take a few pictures. Done. and you can plan your schedule any way you like except for the Queen's calendar. And you get to live free, and no worries about food and drink. Good Times.

I remember reading somewhere that when the topic of Harry & Sparkle's engagement came up, a story surfaced about Prince Charles warning Harry about marrying someone "dramatic", because the drama never ends.

Her hat reminds me of the way my mother's cleaning man arranges the toilet paper and kleenex.

Light colors actually do suit Camilla, just not that awful shade of baby pink.

Would we have liked her huge frou-frou hat any better if it'd been in a muted shade of clay pink, or an ecru?

When a Blacktress like this marries into the Royal family, then we'll talk, oKAY?

Yeah, Harry would have done better to marry her. Not only is Lupita talented and stylish as well as beautiful, she's got serious family money behind her!

Harry doesn't have that much of his own and would have been sensible to marry money, but I guess all the rich girls took a pass on him.

Does Lupita really have family money?

Why didn't Camilla go to jail for Princess Dianna's assassination?

John McEnroe, Did the Queen kill Diana?!

R158, oh FUCK you. Diana was a manipulative cunt and admittedly tried to terminate William’s life while he was in utero. She’s where she belongs. And so is Camilla.

Diana was terrorized by this vile family and the Rottweiler. They undermined Diana at every turn. She took it for as long as she could. She exposed them and the Rottweiler for who they really are. Diana will be remembered forever. Charles and Camilla will be forgotten the day after they are put in the ground.

R167 is correct.

I will not accept the rhetoric that Charles was forced into marrying Diana. He was a willing participant in any plan that went forward. By birth, he was in line to be the King of England. That is privilege on a scale almost no one ever experiences. He obviously could tell them all to go fuck themselves, if that's what he wanted to do.

Sadly, for everyone involved, he did not want to stand up like a man who would be King and assert himself. He chose a very unprincipled course of action, one which took enormous advantage over a 19 year old girl and ultimately caused a great deal of pain for everyone involved. It all traces back to spineless Charles acting spinelessly in one of the most important decisions of his life. Decades later, the ramifications still unfold.

What's the point of a King who can't stand up to Mummy? There is none. William is popular because everyone can see in his words and deeds that he is stronger and more principled than his father. It came to him and Harry to stand up to the family and demand respect for their mother.

They could do it. Charles could not. That's all you need to know about Charles.

Anything to cover up that fucking awful face. As Joan Rivers might say "she ate the bridal bouquet".

I agree that Charles was spineless but his " mummy" was no ordinary "mummy". It was also a very different time as well. I cannot blame all of this on Charles because it took two people to say I will. While Diana was only 19 she must certainly did not love Charles either though I am sure she probably loved the idea of him. Both of them and The Firm were operating like this was 1950 but very quickly the realization that it was not caught up to all of them. As I wrote upthread one of Diana,s sisters (the one who briefly dated Charles tried to warn her but she would not listen) . I do believe she was a victim of falling for the Disney Princess storyline that was being written for her by the media but we all know that is just a fairytale. In the end I blame them both for the failed marriage but the reality is both could have quietly found private happiness. Diana must certainly tried with her lovers but when she could not find happiness she became vengeful which lead to her demise.

R182, Joan Rivers was friends with Charles and Camilla and attended their wedding. I doubt she “might” say that.

It's hard to blame Diana when she was a teenager. Charles was a man in his 30s.

She was an adult, R185. She also had a family.

They weren't compatible. Period. But I'd also point out that Charles and Camilla resumed their affair after HER marriage. From what I read, Her husband was also having affairs and in the sat Charles was part of affairs were common. His Aunt Margaret certainly thought so, and his sister was no virgin abut it. So casual affairs were not something he would have been shocked by since he did the same. He had been desensitized to marital fidelity by the social pressures of the people who were his peers in his social millieu. I'm not excusing him. Not at all. But I am giving some context.

Another bit of context: I think Diana's lack of education had its part. Or rather, when you bring girls up like Diana, tell them that they don't need more than a basic education or careers, that their looks will be enough to get them that big-fish husband who will make all their dreams come true... you're pretty much guaranteeing an unhappy marriage.

It's a matter of unrealistic expectations, not that all expectations aren't unrealistic at age 19. But if you raise a girl to believe that marriage is her path to everything she wants in life, not just the love, sex, and children, but the status and interests and intellectual development and personal growth and the social life she wants etc.,... well, that's putting too high an expectation on the marriage, and burdening the husband with hopes and dreams that he probably doesn't realize exist. But that's the old-fashioned way to raise girls, and it happens all over the social scale and all over the world, you tell your girls that if they want something out of life then they should go out and marry it! Which never works, a man marries because he wants children and a stable home life, not because he wants to support his wife's interest in art history or help her make friends in her new home.

Diana was the dark flip-side of the Jane Austen heroine, the one who devotes her entire being to nailing down the husband who's out of her league. There's a reason that Austen never wrote about how the marriage worked out.

I was amazed when I saw one documentary about Diana which claimed that in fact, even after the divorce, she still loved Charles.

That book and interview led to a divorce that she did not really want.

Whatever problems Diana had, Charles and Camilla were both in their 30s to Diana's 19. That's a difference of 13 - 14 years. And those are important years of maturing, experience, and self knowledge. They took advantage of them.

So, I take pleasure in knowing that whenever either of them die, Diana will be a part of the story told.

I do not believe Diana when she said she still loved Charles. That was part of her post-divorce publicity campaign, where she did everything in her power to look noble and long-suffering, and to make Charles look like a dick. I don't think she ever really loved him, even if she started out with a schoolgirl crush on him, and once they were married she got sick of his shit pretty damn quickly.

But then he didn't love her either, and they were both incompatible, and terrible spouses. No sense in blaming one or the other, it was never going to work.

[quote]Diana was the dark flip-side of the Jane Austen heroine, the one who devotes her entire being to nailing down the husband who's out of her league. There's a reason that Austen never wrote about how the marriage worked out.

You are not describing an Austen heroine. Austen would have verbally vivisected anyone who fit this description.

Don't challenge me on Austen, R191!

Austen's heroines were like Diana, in that they weren't presented with any path to anything they wanted but marriage, and not marrying meant that they got nothing. Of course Austen's heroines were heroines because unlike other girls they weren't willing to give up all their ethics, dignity, and selfhood in order to catch themselves a man (which in turn helped them get a man), but their entire story was about dealing with the "great race", the pressure to find a husband.

My point was that Diana was brought up that way, to regard marriage as her only option and only path to what she really wanted out of life, and in the 20th century she didn't need to be.

No, R49. It's been over a generation since Diana's death. People like Camillia, which is why, when Charles becomes king, she will become queen rather than consort.

I will challenge you because that’s not what your post at R188 said.

Tell me, which Austen heroine “devotes her entire being to nailing down a husband” who is “out of her league”? Austen would never have portrayed such a character in a sympathetic or unironic light. As I am sure you are aware, Jane Austen was born in 1775. She is a product of the Enlightenment, not a Victorian romance novelist.

The role of upper class women in Regency Britain (or for that matter 20th century Britain) as little more than commodities in the marriage market with no other meaningful social role to fulfill is a separate point and not the one that you made in your original post.

If someone wrote a novel about your life, R194, how much wordage would be devoted to your need to pay the rent, or to retire comfortably? Not a lot, because hopefully you don't obsess about it all day long, yet a great deal of your life is in fact devoted to getting the rent paid or retiring with enough money in the bank, or at least, to not screwing up your chance to do either. So even though you actually spend most of your life thinking about other things and doing other things, those are your inescapable long-term goals - as a good marriage was for the young women of Austen's time - and if you don't understand the overwhelming need to marry well in those days, you don't understand Austen. And if you're a person of good character, as are Austen's heroines, you won't give up too much of your dignity, ethics, or selfhood to achieve the goal of paying rent or stabilizing your finances, but you'll do them anyway.

Anyway, I have to go to work soon, and won't be able to continue the thread hijack. Apologies to all for starting a thread hijack, BTW.

I'm pretty much a socialist, but I'd happily hang out with Camilla and Fergie for a night out. You know they're probably the most fun out of all of them.

I'd agree, R196, if I weren't pretty damn sure they'd expect me to pay for the drinks.

I bet those two can swill it down!

Both my sisters were brought up to have careers. They married the men they loved. Now both of them in middle age feel themselves doing a lot of financial heavy lifting in the marriage and resent my parents for not making it clear to them that a woman has to marry a man who makes or has a lot of money!