How did Americans become such slobs?

You just now noticed this OP? The 1970's called they want their groovy bell bottoms back.

I agree, OP. Go check out the audience at any Broadway theater. I'm amazed at how few people dress up for a nice night out.

R2, In summer months, the number of men and women wearing flip flops at matinees is staggering.

Hadn't been to church in years, but while attending a memorial Mass recently, I mostly saw jeans, hoodies and sneakers.

Actually, this started with the Me Generation AKA the Boomers. They rejected the concept of fitting in even though that's all they live for. Part of that was losing the notion of looking shark like the costumes on Mad Men. The Boomers dropped the jewelry and brought us jeans, flip flops and tube tops, as everyday wear in public and baggy dress shirts and pleated pants and Dockers for the office. They felt entitled (what a surprise) to dress any way they want and fuck everyone else if you dont like it.

During the 70's there were legal cases whereby self entitled Boomers were bringing legal action against restaurants and night clubs that enforced a dress code. Eventually most business just threw up their hands and said whatever and American slobs became a way of life.

Unfortunately, you are all too correct. The observations at jury duty and Broadway shows are right on the money. People are now walking through airport terminals in pajamas and carrying their pillow from home. Comfortable enough?!!

Well, if you have to take your shoes off at the airport and get a body search pajamas make a lot of sense.

jesus fucking christ on the cross, this is a one person thread

OP, it’s not just an American phenomena. I’m always seeing people walking to the local shop in their pyjamas and dressing gown here in the UK.

Sing it R5! This is so true it hurts. It's a reaction to those who grew up in the repressed and stifling 50s style as children. Fine for adults like Grace Kelly and Carey Grant but a bit much for toddlers and young children during that era.

Some might dress down for jury duty in an effort to not being chosen to serve.

I think kids look cute all dressed up. And it teaches them at a very young age its important to look good when you go out in public. Boomers gave us Underoos.

I’m always amazed when I see pictures or video of people in the stands at baseball games in the 1960s and they’re wearing suits, tie and hat. Baseball is played in the summer. They must’ve been burning up.

But I agree with OP, in terms of dress, America has become a bunch of slobs.

Let us not forget America being the world's breadbasket for a century gave the rise to 100% cotton denim originating on farms loved the world over as jeans. We were never France or Italy yet still managed to pull off a global trend. The 80s was nothing but a uniform of Ralph Lauren tennis club simplicity. The pendulum swings. Let us be. We'll be fine.

In answer to your question, OP, may one direct your attention to the White House?

R13, let us be right now as alluded to by R15. We'll right the ship but not before going in the entire opposite position with that pendulum stuck. Starch will make a comeback. It's just how this nation rolls. Opposite extreme (sometimes containing witch hunt) then eventually settling in the middle. Then we're onto tackling another obstacle and cause. It's who we are.

[quote]The 80s was nothing but a uniform of Ralph Lauren tennis club simplicity. The pendulum swings. Let us be. We'll be fine.

Um, no it was not. Sorry to burst your bubble Muffy, outside of the Hamptons, Americans did not dress that way in large masses. I am guessing you still drape your sweater over your shoulders in a knot and still think its in style.

Bitch, it's utilitarian!

Was "Judgmental Cunts Who Wear a Tie to Fly, part 367" already filled up, OP?

R15 - yes there's a fat sweaty red-faced cunt in the White House, but fat slobs in the US didn't just start in 2016.

Business Casual dress codes in the workplace are partially to blame.

How many remember your parents buying you new clothes for Easter every year?

It's a lot about comfort over style now. But someone made a good point up thread that people might have dressed way down in order not to be chosen.

Target and even Walmart are pushing more stylish clothing, so it's not like people aren't aware.

A customer of mine enacted casual Friday and had to clarify that it did not mean 'weed pulling clothes'. I thought that was a great way to describe the slobby outfits some were wearing.

It's Canada, too. Cities look like crap now because you just see masses of badly dressed people. It's depressing. Cities where people dressed up were uplifting.

I have one suit, OP, which I wear for weddings, funerals and job interviews. Speaking of my job, which I love and which pays me well, I tend to wear hoodies or dry-fit athletic shirts branded to the university’s sports team.

Am I supposed to wear more to sit in my office and type on a computer, or to sit in a plane seat for six hours hoping someone near me doesn’t sneeze typhoid fever my way?

[quote] Actually, this started with the Me Generation AKA the Boomers

NONETHELESS we also knew how and when to dress properly. Because despite the desire to break away from the stifling conformity of past generations we didn't show up at grandma's funeral without a suit and tie. We weren't stupid.

It's all that garbage in the stores. From China. And not caring about anything.

There have to be dress codes, too. Most people have to be told how to dress, it seems.

It's mostly all the garbage in the stores, though.

[quote]Cities where people dressed up were uplifting, if you were a person for whom dressing up was uplifting.

Fixed.

I had to wear a coat and tie to school every day for ten years. It cured me of thinking "dressed up" had any positive value whatsoever. I don't wear flip-flops, but you can kiss the fucking shorts/no socks/polo shirt outfit I wear every chance I get. Just fucking kiss it, you dressup queens.

I can't imagine how old some of you must be. I'm 46 and remember reading a late 1960s set of Childcraft encyclopedias owned by an older sibling, which had an entire article on how "kids these days" dress casually. It had teens in floppy hats and jeans.

That was 50 years ago, but you're just asking NOW when Americans switched to casual dress?

Op they are dressed that way because they were summoned by the court to give up their free time for the honor of giving up more free time for a court case. People can dress however the hell they want during the selection period. Now once on the stand I guarantee there will be a high sense of decorum.

r6, plans are filthy. These bacteria containers are rarely clean enough to warrant your nice clothes. You have to take off so much clothing to get through security that you might as well wear something easy to take on and off. You can change once you reach your destination. I've brought pillows on a flight with me and was able to get a nice sleep. Fold it over in your lap and rest your head.

People know how to dress up, but they are more in control of when they choose to put in the effort. If theaters don't like the way people dress, they should start turning them away.

^planes

What r31 says makes so much sense. Dressing "up" to be in public places makes the least sense of all. Some places are thoroughly disgusting now, including movie theatres where you can a full junk food meal, dripping with oil and ketchup. Not exactly what you want to sit down in while wearing dress pants.

The Gaetan Dugas of American universal slobbishness is whoever thought up and instituted "Casual Friday." From then on, it was Katy, bar the door.

My last job had a casual dress code. I held out for month before it hit me that I was fighting an unnecessary fight. I remember pulling up to a guy in a dress shirt and tie thinking, at least I'm more comfortable in my jeans and quarter-zip. Trust me, casual dress is nice. We did were business attire when interacting with clients. It's actually the Silicon Valley thing (thank California) that's spreading to the rest of the country. There is no change in productivity based on clothing.

P.S. I love seeing the men in their suites whenever I frequent the finance district, it never gets old.

Oh Lordy, *wear

R35, In their suites? What are you, an escort?

I don't have much money but I always try to 'dress-up'. Like for a theater I'd wear a nice sweater, cords and shiny shoes.

I love you, R29!

People with dry, cracked heels should not wear flip flops in public, but they do.

OP that chick on the left has on my pajamas!

We have Jeans Friday at work. I make point of looking better on jeans day than most people do on regular days. It's not hard to do (blazers, dress shoes/boots), but these frauen shriek with delight running toward their mom jeans, dirty ass Skechers, and tee shirts with flowers & kittens. WTF

When I see my neighbors' teen age daughters leaving for school in the morning wearing belly shirts and micro shorts, I have to wonder how the boys can keep their minds from being distracted in class.

I hate choosing what to wear but I love fashion on others. In 1971 I saw THX 1138 and later Logan's Run and looked forward to a future when everyone wore solid jumpers. I'm with r29 and r39, I had to maintain a high end /cost/care wardrobe as a consultant for too many years. Wear what you want, but NO funky feet. Thank you.

Fuck the slobs. I hate his. As gay men it is our duty to dress up and present!

My mom is one of the laziest, most selfish people I can think of. She had jury duty this week and it’s the only time since Christmas and an Uncles Funeral last month I’ve seen her dress up and look nice.

She knows how people in public think. Unfortunately the people through the tv on HBO don’t clothes shame her so I have to deal with her messy ass if I see her outside of a holiday. Not even a boomer. Wasn’t even raised by one.

On the summons it actually said to wear appropriate clothing. No jeans,shorts,t-shirts or sandals.

There is a total lack of shame in today's society, that's a big part of the problem. Also a lot of Americans make an effort, but have terrible fashion sense. That said, if you think back to the 80s and early 90s...everyone's mom wore mom jeans, shorn hair, turtlenecks (sometimes with vests over them), and everyone's dad wore light wash jeans with chunky dingey-white sneakers. I mean, in some ways we have improved.

[QUOTE]When I see my neighbors' teen age daughters leaving for school in the morning wearing belly shirts and micro shorts, I have to wonder how the boys can keep their minds from being distracted in class.

Not to mention the yoga pants. If I had a dollar for every hot girl I’ve seen who looked like a woman with a shapely ass from the back, only to reveal a high school teen with braces when she turns around.

Why would someone emphasize clothing so much in their judgment of other people? I think you should ask yourself that and examine why outward appearance means so much to you. It seems strange to put your own comfort below what other people think of you. Everyone is required to legally cover certain parts of their bodies and it would be polite to wear clean clothing so as not to insult other people olfactorially but, beyond that, who cares? I'll take real over socially-defined pretense any day.

It's one thing to dress comfortably, as opposed to sloppily.

Someone mentioned that it started with the Baby Boomers. I disagree. I think it started with the Grunge movement. I guess that would be the Gen X generation?

As far as "Business Casual" in the workplace, I think that took hold around the time that Dockers came on the market in the 1980s.

I hear you, OP. I wore skirts and blouses to uni lectures. Most of my peers did. We took exams in gowns ffs. I went back for a gaudy recently and they all looked like they were homeless.

[quote]I can't imagine how old some of you must be. I'm 46 and remember reading a late 1960s set of Childcraft encyclopedias owned by an older sibling, which had an entire article on how "kids these days" dress casually. It had teens in floppy hats and jeans.

Hmm, that's true. The hippy styles of the 60s morphed into the nature/folksy look of the 70s. I'm considered a late Bloomer (born in 1961) and I remember wearing smocks and sandals. But, we looked good compared to today's casual.

Sorry, meant to say "late Boomer", not "late Bloomer", but I suppose I was that also ... but that's for another thread.

Nobody's got no class. Be prepared- summer is upon us to see all the fat cunts with exposed midriffs and cut off shorts cut up to their coonies.

My favorite thing about "What Not to Wear" was the participants' eternal mantra that they dressed like pigs in order to be "comfortable." Stacy London would put them in a clean, well-fitting blouse and slacks and ask, "What's so 'uncomfortable' about this?"

I find the wearing of pajama or sweat/workout pants in public highly tacky. In fact we were at Trader Joe's this past Saturday and there was a guy with athletic pants on with a nice overcoat. Now sneakers don't bother me - I wear them most of the time because tie up dress shoes shred the shit out of my feet.

These yoga pants are all over the place today.

Very few people that I know base their "self respect" on what they wear. However, it would be nice if they showed respect for the venues they are appearing at. Dressing nicely is a way to show that the place you're at is special.

Because people resent being forced to go to jury duty, so they treat it like a vacation day. Also, they don't know how long they'll be sitting in an uncomfortable chair, so they dress in comfy clothes, as if going for a long flight (but to nowhere).

r27 is on to something. Clothes are cheap now. You can get a pair of Dockers at TJ Maxx for $12. When Joe Schmo can't button those because he's gained 15 pounds (hmmm, maybe it's all the fried macaroni and cheese or blooming onion/ribs/wing appetizers) he can waddle his fat ass to the store and get new ones. If you spend a lot of money on high quality clothes, you tend to take care of them and don't let yourself outgrow them without a fight. I still wear clothes and shoes that are older than some of my coworkers.

[quote]People are now walking through airport terminals in pajamas and carrying their pillow from home.

I see this constantly in airports and it's sickening. What kind of a slob wears pajamas in public?

No kidding, dressing comfortably doesn't mean dressing like a slob. The pictures from the Depression show poor and impoverished people with far more taste and style than today's people. I'm with you, OP.

I have to wear a suit four days a week, so my down time is pretty casual. But not slobby, except for working in the yard. I had a co-worker say that his jeans were more comfortable than his dress clothes. I told him then you either are buying the wrong size or hiring a shitty tailor--with a well-tailored suit you barely even feel the belt, and the rest should be a silky-smooth drape and not pull, bunch or bind. That's pretty posh. What he meant was that HE FEELS uncomfortable in dress clothes. That's a big difference, and if I really gave a shit I'd have asked why. But I didn't and I don't now. We just skipped over promoting him in favor of a representative who knew the value of making a great first impression and how to keep his shoes shined and his hair groomed.

A shirt and tie shouldn't choke you, either, even with the top button done. I think that a big problem is that people don't have their clothes properly fitted or tailored much any more, and they look strange and don't feel good.

I'm OK with people dressing up or down for the occasion, but today a lot of people only know how to dress down and give a list of excuses as to why, when the real reason is that they're just slobs with little pride in appearance. You know what I'm talking about--make a big deal about not judging a book by its cover and then dressing like a slattern to dare you to not notice.

[quote]Someone mentioned that it started with the Baby Boomers. I disagree. I think it started with the Grunge movement. I guess that would be the Gen X generation?

Nope, sorry gramps, Gen X were too young, still in high school. Sloppy dress in public and the office started way before the 90's. Ripped jeans go all the way back to the 70's. Tube tops, belly shirts, all trash looks of the Boomers when they were young.

[quote]As far as "Business Casual" in the workplace, I think that took hold around the time that Dockers came on the market in the 1980s.

Boomers were running the fashion industry at that point. Gen-X were still in school or just entering the workforce. Casual Friday was an invention of the Boomers. The grunge movement has nothing to do with it. Most of society did not pick up on that.

[quote]Very few people that I know base their "self respect" on what they wear. However, it would be nice if they showed respect for the venues they are appearing at.

It's not about self respect. From a pure historical standpoint, people back a hundred years ago all dressed up as a sign of wealth. Everyone wore their best suit, hat or clothes out in public every day and at every event to impress upon others their status in society.

They wore their wealth out on their sieve as apposed to today, where even millionaires dress down and look sloppy.

I'm with R57 and R64. I like dressing nicely and there are times when I'm dressed well. And do you know what? People notice and offer compliments. I'm built for a suit - 6' 1", 170lbs. Personally, I don't think men know how attractive and 'hot' they could look if their clothes fit better than what they wear. Why do guy wear pants that don't fit or show off their ass or put on a shirt that fits at the shoulder? And for God's sake, tuck in your shirt! If you think that having it hang over your belly hides how fat you are, you are sadly mistaken.

To R57's comment about WNTW, Clinton told one of their guests that you should ALWAYS try on clothes before you make a purchase. Put on the shirt, stand in front of a mirror, LOOK at how it fits. As a guy, I've learned that there are brands that fit me better than others... what a learning experience. A slimmer fit works for me.

One more rant - check your posture... poor, poor round shouldered and slumped forward you. Just by standing tall, rolling your shoulders back (which means you'll be engaging your abs and lower back) you'll improve your appearance.

And don't get me started on how to shave or comb your fucking hair.

I think people are better dressed today.

^Is this you?

[quote]Dressing nicely is a way to show that the place you're at is special.

Because places know, r60.

So true, r68. If haven't been measured for a shirt and suit lately, your clothes probably don't fit you well. I'm not talking about bespoke shirts and suits, off the rack is fine, but find yourself a decent tailor. Anyone else from NY remember Syms? They had the best tailor there onsite, a little old Italian guy. He totally hooked me up when I was just starting out in my career. Sometimes I miss having to wear a suit to work every day. I usually wear dark jeans, shoes or boots, a well-fitted, pressed Oxford shirt and belt. Sometimes I'll wear a v-neck pullover sweater over a shirt and tie. Sweats are for home and the gym.

How much does it typically cost to have a shirt altered? I'd love to do it but I don't want to break the bank.

I would never wear sweatpants in public. I would feel very uncomfortable. Sweats are fine for just hanging around the house, but for me it would be weird to wear them out.

[quote]How much does it typically cost to have a shirt altered?

Mine are about $20.

The stench of priss on this thread is overwhelming.

I kind of agree with R14 that it will swing back. How much worse can it get than baggy, sloppy pajamas in public?

Fuck jury duty. I will not shower for a week then show up

I graduated from high school in 1969. and after that, no more dress code. Women could wear pants to school.

r38, that's how I dress most of the time, including going to the theatre. I consider dressing up to be "coat and tie."

I think when it comes to jury duty you have to cut people some slack. I try to look presentable, but if I were called for jury duty I would do everything I could think of to GTFO of there as quickly as possible, and that includes looking like I've just rolled out of bed and I'm a little crazy.

Because we have a thing called democracy.

I graduated a Massachusetts suburban public high school in 1970, when it was forbidden to wear jeans. If any student dared to show up wearing jeans, they were sent home. Girls had to wear a dress or skirt, culottes were also forbidden.

Funny thing is that outside of Silicon Valley most people wouldn't turn down a good job over a dress code (see fast food workers) so business could demand higher standards but they don't because dressing up has has little correlation to productivity. Trust me shareholders wouldn't have let standards slip if it really mattered.

I'm not going to dress better for jury duty than I do for work, business casual. I do wonder how many people today own a suite, non the less one that actually fits.

On a somewhat-related note, when did preening become something considered femme??? I mean, if anyone were suddenly teleported back in time and showed up right in front of King George III would they honestly be so willing to call him a queeny, flamboyant prisspot?

[quote]I do wonder how many people today own a suite

A suite of rooms?

Max's latest "new work uniform." Yum.

Nobody got sent home not even the guy who said if somebody sued him he'd shoot their eye out and burn their house down.

I agree with the baby boomer idea. Also, I'll add that people just don't want to grow up and present as an adult (think eternal bros in jeans, tees, hoodies and cargo shorts).

r89 that's a good point. Being in denial about getting older has a lot to do with it, for both men and women. They don't want to accept the fact that they're middle-aged so they're still dressing like 20 year-olds.

20-year-olds did not dress in 'jeans, tees, hoodies and cargo shorts' when boomers were in their 20s.

This is part of the reason why I suspect there is an agenda to turn the mass population into slaves. They do it to themselves. I mean, they're already dressed for it, aren't they?

[quote]20-year-olds did not dress in 'jeans, tees, hoodies and cargo shorts' when boomers were in their 20s.

But that's what 20 year-olds wear now. Older people tend to copy the current styles. Or to go even more extreme, like all the older women in LA who wear short dresses and five-inch heels.

yes, it is very globalism in "style," R92

It started in a way with the 60s and jeans. There were ugly clothes in the 70s and 80s but people still dressed professionally for work and in the places you were expected to dress somewhat professional. I think "casual Fridays" was a big dip downward, followed by the stores all being full of sweats, sneakers, t-shirts, then hoodies, "popular culture' celebrating the ugliness of 'hos and pimps, then yoga pants and leggings. Hoodies and yoga pants/leggings were the end.

All this talk of fitting suits reminds me of that scene in MY COUSIN VINNY where the judge holds Vinny in contempt because he shows up to court wearing a red thrifted tux (before that the judge threatened to throw him out for showing up in a leather jacket).

“Mr. Gambini...are you MOCKIN’ me with that outfit?” Kills me everytime I see it.

But I always wondered who in town wore the same size as Vinny.

.........

It's funny, I go to visit my parents who live in a small town (with an aging population) in the middle of flyover land and I see more people there dressing up when going out shopping, to dinner, or to the local theater than I do in the city I live in now. My mom is in her mid 70s and she still puts on a nice outfit whenever she goes out, and my dad never leaves the house without a nice pair of pants, a sweater in cooler weather or a nice polo in the summer months. I wouldn't call their clothing fashionable, but the older people in my hometown all seem to dress a little more formally than the younger set; and even their casual clothing is clean, ironed and somewhat classic looking.

Oops R98 was supposed to be in the Russell Crowe thread, but I guess it works here, too....

[quote]It's not about self respect.

According to the OP, it is. I was responding to the initial post.

Madonna doing her civic duty.

This hag couldn't be bothered to show up looking halfway decent.

From what I've witnessed, it is a tragic result of an overly permissive society. There is very little regard for authority, rules and regulations anymore.

r103 = lips pursed tighter than a cat's asshole.

We dressed up for shopping, church, a flight. We even dressed for a movie. This ended in the '70's

Then it really ended in 2000 and completely ended by 2010

You all can still dress up, no one is stopping you. Many of my friends are very trendy and walk outside looking urban chic six out of seven days a week. I'm happy that we live in an age that lets people dress how they wish. Find new friends, ignore the general population, and look sharp.

Is it acceptable to go out in “hostess” pants?

I knew the boat had sailed and sunk when I saw a photograph of a First Lady of the United States who could not be bothered to wear stockings when she met the Queen of England.

I could not believe my eyes and had to pull up multiple photos to confirm what I was seeing.

Yuck. Bare feet stuck in shoes. Bare legs with a dress.

This is supposed to be a professional visit, a diplomatic visit, a state visit and she couldn't be bothered to wear stockings.

Tres tacky.

And Ugly, Ugly, Ugly.

And it did not reflect well on her.

Stockings ? Is that like pantyhose?

[quote] There is very little regard for authority, rules and regulations anymore.

Thank you for your input, Herr Goebbels.

Tailors?

$20 to alter a shirt that probably costs about the same?

I think the real issue is that some wealthy folk are upset that middle class and poor people who do not have the money to dress like they do have the temerity to show up for jury duty and theater.

People with money are dressing like crap, too.

And if you don't have money you don't have to walk around in leggings, hoodies, pajamas etc.

Piss off with your tired Nazi equivalences, R111. There once was a sense of place and formality to fashion, of what was and wasn't done, that in retrospect was very attractive compared to the "comfortable" free-for-all we have now. It's all so uninspiring.

I'm so sorry that my clothing choices don't inspire you, R114. Because clearly that should be my primary duty when selecting my attire every morning.

Count me among those who prefer comfort and just really don't give a fuck if that bothers you. As far as I'm concerned, that's a net positive for both of us, because if that's what you're concerned about, we're not going to get along and the sooner we both know it, the better.

As for R103 's comment, it was hilariously stupid. Anyone trying to defend that shit is saying far more about themselves than they are about anyone else in this "tragically over-permissive society."

I blame those matching velour Victoria's Secret pants/jackets suits women started wearing in the aughts. (They wore them on the Sopranos all the time.) Suddenly they became travel wear or movie theater wear... and it all just sort of slid from there. Soon they switched from those to yoga pants.

I also blame the acceptance of polyester.

Also, there are more overweight people, and it becomes more uncomfortable to wear dressier, non stretchy clothes as you gain weight.

I can't imagine caring about what other people wear. As long as it doesn't smell, of course. And they don't smell. Which includes perfume, dryer sheets, etc.

Thanks for the laughs, Mary! Millennial at R115. Naturally, you would make this discussion about YOUR choices, as if we were all talking about YOU.

Please keep it up with the defensive posturing, willed ignorance and ever-so-elegant cursing. Your clownishness in cargo shorts has really brightened my mood!

R119, I'm 58 years old but thank you so much for taking the bait. And thank you for giving us such wonderful examples of "making this discussion about YOUR choices" and "defensive posturing" and "willed [sic] ignorance."

The projection is strong with this one.

Is this about being "comfortable" and not caring what others think? Is it "prissy" to think this ruins a city? Is this wonderful?

Somebody made an good point: getting good clothes that fit well. Straight outta college, I had to wear slacks, a dress shirt and a tie, hated it and was physically uncomfortable... until I figured out that I didn't have stuff that fit well.

One thing I encountered consistently: Such a different reaction from people when I wore sharp, professional clothes vs. shorts and a T on a weekend.

"Projection" and "taking the bait." So cutting, R120. But, I suppose that's to be expected from someone whose strongest defense manifests in paraphrasing Star Wars quotes.

You and your fanny pack run along now and thanks again for the amusement. I'm glad I shed a light on your willful blindness :)

[quote}Somebody made an good point: getting good clothes that fit well. Straight outta college, I had to wear slacks, a dress shirt and a tie, hated it and was physically uncomfortable... until I figured out that I didn't have stuff that fit well.

And do you understand that your are 212 FUCKING TWO YEARS OLD????

GET WITH THE FUCKING 21st CENTURY

Old, old old old QUEENS who haven't been in a fucking workplace in fucking FOREVER.

Thanks, cunts!

R121, you are insane.

[quote]Thanks for the laughs, Mary! Millennial at [R115]. Naturally, you would make this discussion about YOUR choices, as if we were all talking about YOU.

Not R115 but, uh, how exactly is what someone wears about anything other than themselves? I think the crazy, self-absorbed weirdos are the ones tsk-tsking like Ms. Patty Prisspants over what other people wear and outlining how their own clothing shapes their identity, practically minute by minute. "I feel so much better when I wear my tailored suit!" That's nuts.

You do realize fashion has no actual meaning in human existence, right? It's a ridiculously meaningless pastime that the vast majority of the world finds laughable to even consider. The only real uses for clothing is to cover the vulnerable parts of the body and to protect you from dying from the elements. Everything else is stupid fashion.

I love you, R115!

R112 Are you one of those people who think only people with money can eat healthy?

Even my fussy femmey & haughty LMC male cousin shows up to his office-drone job in Dad jeans with a tight button-up. He wouldn’t dream of a white shirt & suit/tie, and this is a man who has been obsessing over his neigbour’s poor taste in curtain. He does wear a nice pair brogues often, though.

I’m 55 and I attended Catholic school. All of boys had to wear a shirt and tie, with a jacket or sweater. All girls were required to wear uniforms. Shoes had to worn, but sneakers were permitted it gym class and for recess.

When I leave the house, to run errands, visit, shop, I always wear shoes (never sneakers and never flip flops) a nice shirt, sweater or jacket and slacks. At work, I always wear a suit and tie. I feel confident knowing I look and feel better. Also, well dressed people get more respect and accommodation.

Yes, I’m old relic who wears a nice wrist watch, too.

[quote]sneakers were permitted in gym class

How avant garde.

Slob?

slob?

slob?

slob?

What’s with the anger? If you’re righteously defending your right to dress like a slob, or for your “comfort” over everything else why get mad when others call it what it is? A chronic slob’s appearance speaks volumes about the rest of their life. And it’s not about money.

At work I adopted the discipline of dressing one step up from either my audience or potential client—if they won’t have ties, wear one. If they’re in sport coats, wear a suit. It works and I don’t care if it’s only psychological or quaint by someone else’s standards.

By and large people who dress appropriately for the occasion get shown more respect and trust. In this competitive world/workplace that’s an edge I’ll gladly take.

I neither respect nor trust you, r136. You're a manipulative cunt, and I'm sure it shows without your saying a word.

slob?

Aesthetics are important, too. Why make yourself look unattractive instead of attractive? And a whole city full of slobs brings down a city in terms of attractiveness and appeal.

Show us what you're talking about, r139. I've come to the conclusion that I may dress a lot like the people here who support "dressing up," but I don't think of myself as someone who dresses up. Which leads me to the conclusion that I don't know what most of you are describing. So please elucidate.

R137 I'm being straight up honest. Sales is a big part of my job and that means earning trust and presenting well. Demonstrating respect and humility goes a long way in earning trust. There is no magic or manipulation in dressing neatly and respectfully, or even "up" for events or people. Maybe it has to do with visuals or emotion? I don't know.

But look at R138. Is he a slob? Well is he hanging out with his buds or attending his mom's funeral? I wouldn't know how to explain the difference to someone who can't see it.

You have no "humility," r141.

And the guy in r183 is a music producer posing for a photo in his Beverly Hills mansion. I don't think much of his music, but je ne give a shit pas how he dresses.

^ r143, that is.

I agree OP. I use to dress sloppily. But now I try my best to look put together when I go out even on weekends. Nothing fancy. I nice clean pair of pants or a dress. It makes me feel good about myself.

I especially appreciate the stank-ass PAJAMAS adults now seem to think are fit to wear anywhere in public.

R142 So? He looks fine. What's your point?

I think he looks fine, too, r146. Kind of adorkable, actually. My favorite type.

I remember my first family vacation to the US in the 80s. We laughed at how FAT everyone was... It's been a long time coming!

If you dress nicely, you will be treated better.

Dressing back in the day must have been an EXPERIENCE.

I do dress nicely. I don't wear a suit or coat and tie to go grocery shopping or to fly, though.

R130: Are you single? (I'm asking for a friend.)

R131: You made me laugh.

R136: Thank you!

[quote] Why would someone emphasize clothing so much in their judgment of other people?

Clothes maketh the man.

I am still laughing at the idea that we should all have our clothes made for us by a tailor.

Your clothes may be, Beau Brummell-y; They stand out a mile, but brother, You’re never fully-dressed without a smile!

It started with de regulation of airlines: When airplanes turned into Greyhound buses in the sky. Flying lost it's allure. Also when the economy hit the fan, people sort if lost hope. There are more poor people and more obese people, so there is a need for comfy cheap clothes. I see more and more poor sad people. I don't mean that as an insult to poor people. I mean there is a lot of hardship.

R149 also if you smell better

Dress codes should be enforced again. It would be a great start to improve American society.

Who? r109

[quote]What’s with the anger?

I'm not seeing a whole lot of anger on this thread, R136. What I do see is the same thread that we've had every few months for at least the past twenty years. At this point, I'm mostly amused, particularly by the drama queens predicting the downfall of civilization because they saw someone wearing sweat pants on an airplane or saw someone wearing blue jeans at a Broadway show.

[quote]If you’re righteously defending your right to dress like a slob, or for your “comfort” over everything else why get mad when others call it what it is? A chronic slob’s appearance speaks volumes about the rest of their life. And it’s not about money.

See, a statement like this is why you get called a drama queen and why people "righteously defend" themselves. Of course you can't defend an idiotic statement like this. It's hilariously judgmental and even more hilarious that you seem genuinely clueless about what this says about you.

[quote]At work I adopted the discipline of dressing one step up from either my audience or potential client

At work I adopted the discipline of dressing comfortably. It works and I don't care if it's only psychological or quaint by someone else's standards. I've had no problem gaining respect and trust because I work for a company and with people who just really don't care about the way I dress. What they care about is what kind of person I am and what kind of work I do. In this competitive world/marketplace, that's an edge I'll gladly take.

As with every prior iteration of this thread, the drama queens still haven't been able to come up with a single reason why I or anyone else should dress up. Until they do, I'll continue to dress as I like without worrying about what others might think. It's a lot healthier way to live.

R160 you’ve been given several reasons, from expressions of respect to honorng events or people to feeling good about oneself to setting yourself forward in your career. Any of those are reasonable. I don’t care how comfortably you dress. If your fashion sense is slovenly or if you are a chronic slob at times you are judged and treated differently. You may be a beautiful exception.

[quote]you’ve been given several reasons

Not one of which stood up to actual scrutiny.

[quote]from expressions of respect to honorng [sic] events or people

See, here's the thing: how I dress doesn't "honor" anyone, nor does it show "respect" for anyone. What I do and what I say demonstrate respect and honor, not what clothes I wear. I'm sorry if you have trouble grasping that distinction.

[quote]to feeling good about oneself

I feel good about myself without the need to dress up. I'm sorry if this is beyond your grasp.

[quote]to setting yourself forward in your career.

I don't need to dress up to set myself forward in my career, thanks. I'm in the high-tech industry, where we just don't give a shit. The best developer I ever had working for me wore torn jeans and a t-shirt to work on a regular basis. Nobody cared and he's had one hell of a career. I earned the respect of my peers by my work ethic and by being the person I am, not by the clothes I wore. If you work in a profession where you have to dress up to move forward, I'm sorry for you.

[quote]Any of those are reasonable.

Too bad none of them actually matter. I repeat: the drama queens still haven't been able to come up with a single reason why I or anyone else should dress up.

[quote]I don’t care how comfortably you dress.

Apparently you do, since you seem to want to post judgmental diatribes about it.

[quote]If your fashion sense is slovenly or if you are a chronic slob at times you are judged and treated differently.

Sorry, but you need to hang out with a different group of people. The people I hang out with don't care. And if they did, I wouldn't want to hang out with them, as I'm not interested in being around shallow, judgmental fools.

[quote]You may be a beautiful exception.

Apparently so. You should try it sometime just to see how foolish some of your remarks really are. Like the one about, "A chronic slob’s appearance speaks volumes about the rest of their life." A remark like that speaks volumes about the rest of your life.

r162 wins.

I hate the look of tucked-in shirts. I realize it's unreasonable, but having anything tight around the waist seems constricting to me, no matter how slim the person may be. I also like more "flow" in an outfit and it seems jarring to have my eye drawn to a horizontal area across someone's middle. I would be more likely to fuck a guy in a clean, untucked shirt than a man in a 3 piece suit.

And Caftans! ^

Is that you Kyle Richards R164. Your muumuus are calling out your name

R162 you can parse my posts all day and deny human behavior all you want. Better dressers get treated differently. Chronic slobs get judged. Maybe not 100% of the time, maybe not in your office. It may not be fair but it still happens.

Oh, and R162, chronic slobbery sure as shit can speak volumes—it can indicate addiction, depression, sexual abuse, antisocial behavior, passive aggressive behavior, immaturity, lack of awareness, underdevelopment, etc... My 23-year-old neighbor is a chronic slob but he has Aspergers.

It's not just Americans, sadly. My English roommate, who is in his 60s, wears the same tshirt and baggy shorts year-round. I've only seen him wear dressier clothes twice in the year I've known him.

I remember, back in the late 60s, when I was in junior high school, girls wearing culottes was a big deal. It was a huge no-no. Then we were finally allowed. Next, blue jeans were allowed to wear to school. I miss the days back then, when people, especially women, paid attention to looking good and wearing the latest fashion. It was almost like a competition. Walking down Broad Street was a fashion show.

Oops.. Then *they* were finally allowed.

Perhas some people don't like being competitive or can't afford to be.

[quote] Someone mentioned that it started with the Baby Boomers. I disagree. I think it started with the Grunge movement.

Disagree all you want, genius, but the move toward more casual clothing came in the 1960s. It's empirical fact, not just opinion, and was closely linked to various rights movements and increased freedoms.

And then there is the messy hair. Ombre, Sombre coloring. So many women wear the long hair with the messy beach waves look.

I don't like the purple, pink, or neon hair either... plus ripped jeans.

Women don't exist so you can be entertained by their fashion choices, r170, and I have to wonder how old you are to think that they do. A big reason women don't wear girdles and crinolines and gloves and hats anymore is because women aren't beholden to men's demands on their behavior.

One of the creepier things about DL are the guys who talk incessantly about how women should be forced into high heels and not leave the house unescorted and be given "ladies menus" without prices because it's gauche for women to buy their own food.

It's even creepier when it comes with anecdotes about how these DLer's mothers were all perfectly coiffed and cinched and be-hatted every time they left the house.

Yes, r168, people who don't dress up are scientifically proven to be on the spectrum and also bugger little children. That's totally true and not a completely insane thing to say at all.

7 January 1957

That was the day I saw some dame with a loving cup on her head and her fat dishwater blonde riding the subway in blue jeans

For those claiming that people who don't dress up or really care about their attire all that much have some personality or mental issues, you conveniently ignore that the more troubling personality and mental issues belong to those who obsess about not only their clothing but other people's clothing. To wear what you want is actually the more mature state of self-actualization. Buying into the practice of wearing what other people say is proper or fashionable at any given moment or event, shows a lack of self-actualization and judging what other people wear to make yourself feel superior shows signs of a narcissistic personality.

I'd hang out with a "slob" (although your definitions of slob as simply someone who dares to wear such things as untucked shirts or yoga pants are hilarious) before an uptight "fashionista" any day of the week. The only thing I care about when it comes to other people's clothing is whether it covers their private body parts and is clean.

r176 -- how do you feel about a woman-owned store that pushes horrible and overpriced clothes for women? I was walking by a store in town and had to pop in to ask about a pair of jeans that were featured in the window. Not only were they "distressed" which means you are essentially paying for rags, they were intentionally too short and had a ripped hem. For $200+. And the mannequin had exposed collar and chest "bones" visible. The kind you see on women with eating disorders. Talk about who hates women.

Those Who Would Control What Each of Us Wears, is either of these gents a "slob"?

Those...is...?

The sooner dress codes disappear from everywhere, the better. People should wear whatever they feel comfortable in, wherever they want. People are happier and feel more like themselves when they are comfortable.

No, fool r182. "Either" is.

R177 that’s not what I said, but get all indignant anyway.

What you did say, R185, RE: slobbery:

[quote]it can indicate addiction, depression, sexual abuse

[quote]My 23-year-old neighbor is a chronic slob but he has Aspergers.

R177 WINS!

r178

You mean she was actually in the subway in her BLUE JEANS?

So, R186? The fact is it can.

And in the case of my neighbor, it does.

Not endorsing this brand, but its a way of life queens. And he made millions just by telling guys its ok to keep your shirt un tucked as long as you get one from him.

Looking good in a basic way isn't "obsessing over clothes." It's like combing your hair. It is basic.

The slob look, now everywhere is depressing. It makes cities look like ghettos. Run down, depressing. It would be one thing if the person was penniless (but even then you don't have to wear skin tight "yoga pants" or pajamas)...it's slobs that can't be bothered. Can be bothered to look good, can't be bothered to be polite, can't be bothered to read, can be bothered to act respectful to anyone etc etc

[quote]Can be bothered to look good, can't be bothered to be polite, can't be bothered to read, can be bothered to act respectful to anyone etc etc

Those are quite some bullshit conclusions. I wouldn't expect anything more from a disrespectful, narcissistic, ignorant, fashion-obsessed queen. I bet you've been to an oxygen bar, haven't you?

It’s appalling. It started when women started eschewing foundation garments. First the girdles went, then the hosiery, and now they don’t even wear brassieres!

Of course, ever since this non-smoking craze, Americans have been gaining weight like crazy, which makes it hard to fit into nice clothes.

R192. Go back to the 1950s.

They were dressed better in the 50s

R189: I'm not familiar with this person but he is greatly mistaken. Does he also claim tennis shoes with a suit (or brown shoes with black pants) is acceptable?

r109, have you even worn pantyhose before? It's akin to wearing shapewear and wearing it will increase one's chances of a yeast infection.

[quote]you conveniently ignore that the more troubling personality and mental issues belong to those who obsess about not only their clothing but other people's clothing.

Yup. Just look at those in this thread. These people have ... issues. Examples:

[quote]Whatever happened to self respect?

[quote]They felt entitled (what a surprise) to dress any way they want and fuck everyone else if you dont like it.

[quote]Cities look like crap now because you just see masses of badly dressed people. It's depressing.

[quote]It's all that garbage in the stores. From China. And not caring about anything. There have to be dress codes, too. Most people have to be told how to dress, it seems.

[quote]these frauen shriek with delight running toward their mom jeans, dirty ass Skechers, and tee shirts with flowers & kittens.

[quote]There is a total lack of shame in today's society, that's a big part of the problem.

[quote]today a lot of people only know how to dress down and give a list of excuses as to why, when the real reason is that they're just slobs with little pride in appearance. You know what I'm talking about--make a big deal about not judging a book by its cover and then dressing like a slattern to dare you to not notice.

[quote]Why do guy wear pants that don't fit or show off their ass or put on a shirt that fits at the shoulder? And for God's sake, tuck in your shirt! If you think that having it hang over your belly hides how fat you are, you are sadly mistaken.

[quote]One more rant - check your posture... poor, poor round shouldered and slumped forward you. Just by standing tall, rolling your shoulders back (which means you'll be engaging your abs and lower back) you'll improve your appearance.

[quote]And don't get me started on how to shave or comb your fucking hair.

[quote]This is part of the reason why I suspect there is an agenda to turn the mass population into slaves. They do it to themselves. I mean, they're already dressed for it, aren't they?

[quote]From what I've witnessed, it is a tragic result of an overly permissive society. There is very little regard for authority, rules and regulations anymore.

[quote] This is supposed to be a professional visit, a diplomatic visit, a state visit and she couldn't be bothered to wear stockings. Tres tacky. And Ugly, Ugly, Ugly. And it did not reflect well on her.

[quote]here once was a sense of place and formality to fashion, of what was and wasn't done, that in retrospect was very attractive compared to the "comfortable" free-for-all we have now. It's all so uninspiring.

[quote]Please keep it up with the defensive posturing, willed ignorance and ever-so-elegant cursing. Your clownishness in cargo shorts has really brightened my mood!

[quote]Is this about being "comfortable" and not caring what others think? Is it "prissy" to think this ruins a city? Is this wonderful?

[quote]You and your fanny pack run along now and thanks again for the amusement. I'm glad I shed a light on your willful blindness

[quote]Even my fussy femmey & haughty LMC male cousin shows up to his office-drone job in Dad jeans with a tight button-up. He wouldn’t dream of a white shirt & suit/tie

[quote]A chronic slob’s appearance speaks volumes about the rest of their life. And it’s not about money.

[quote]And a whole city full of slobs brings down a city in terms of attractiveness and appeal.

[quote]I especially appreciate the stank-ass PAJAMAS adults now seem to think are fit to wear anywhere in public.

[quote]you can parse my posts all day and deny human behavior all you want. Better dressers get treated differently. Chronic slobs get judged. Maybe not 100% of the time, maybe not in your office. It may not be fair but it still happens

[quote]hronic slobbery sure as shit can speak volumes—it can indicate addiction, depression, sexual abuse, antisocial behavior, passive aggressive behavior, immaturity, lack of awareness, underdevelopment, etc.

[quote]Buying into the practice of wearing what other people say is proper or fashionable at any given moment or event, shows a lack of self-actualization

If you're not mature enough or self-confident enough to wear what you like and to not worry about what others might think, you probably shouldn't be posting on this thread. Or going out in public.

[quote]and judging what other people wear to make yourself feel superior shows signs of a narcissistic personality.

Or just demonstrating how terribly insecure you are.

[quote]The only thing I care about when it comes to other people's clothing is whether it covers their private body parts and is clean.

That's true of most of us, and for good reason.

[quote]you can parse my posts all day and deny human behavior all you want.

As long as you keep on being mildly entertaining, I have no objection. Sorry, but I'm not "denying human behavior." I'm just pointing out that you're a fool.

[quote]Oh, and R162, chronic slobbery sure as shit can speak volumes—it can indicate addiction, depression, sexual abuse, antisocial behavior, passive aggressive behavior, immaturity, lack of awareness, underdevelopment, etc...

Thank you for so quickly proving my point.

Quote all you want, R197. Those comments are the truth! (And some were pretty funny, too)

The ones with the "issues" are the slobs with their anger and defensiveness

Oh, I will, R200, just as long as you and your cohort keep on providing such hilariously obsessive and judgmental posts. Of course they weren't true, although it's amusing that you think so. The ones with the "issues" are the insecure judgmental drama queens with their anger and their defensiveness, as you've just so thoroughly demonstrated. Keep it up!

I was taught growing up that no matter how poor you were,being clean and wearing ironed clothes was a must. I hate ironing as much as the next man,but rarely have I not done so. I cant tell you how often I get asked why Im "dressed up" when all Im wearing is a casual shirt and shorts. They just happen to be ironed,and I look neat and pulled together.It does make a difference,people do in fact treat you a little better. Thats a fact.

R195 unless it is part of a uniform (waiter, livery driver), no man should wear black pants.

Unfortunately, the original "Roseanne" and "Jerry Springer Show" audiences and viewers grew of age and spawned... Even in the earlier years of the 1980s, everything '60s was the rage and people liked to dress up at work, at concerts, in nightclubs, at restaurants. I agree with an up-thread poster about a lot of the slobbishness beginning with the Grunge Era. It's not so much even that people today look like slobs purposely--it's because nobody ever taught them how to be different or self-aware concerning it.

Boomer here. I wear jeans and sneakers daily because I’m retired, but I do dress for errands, shopping, social events, etc.

Dress up more for weddings, funerals, dinner out, the symphony and theatre.

I can’t speak for others, but I live in an area where most people are very casual. We buried my mother in a suit and pearls, but I went to a funeral where the dead mother wore a sweatshirt.

R203: What about a tuxedo or a business suit? Black dress pants can look fine for either formal or less formal occasions but always with black shoes.

For the past few years, I've seen far too many young urban professionals wearing black trousers and brown shoes! Which GQ writer is convincing them that it's acceptable?

Women should be wearing “shape wear,” aka foundation garments. I don’t buy this yeast infection business. I think that’s from women no longer engaging in proper feminine hygiene practices. Women today are no longer ladies. They are amazons who want to throw their floppy breasts around and subject the world to the intricacies of their female “business.”

Hey, R207, why stop there? How do you feel about foot binding and those neck extension rings? I mean, why should women be walking around the world with working feet and having their necks hold up their own heads when they could be uncomfortable and/or crippling themselves at the behest of their male betters, like you? Right?

[quote]I don’t buy this yeast infection business.

I would assume you don't have a vagina, probably ha e never seen a vagina up close, and are not an expert on what it's like to have a vagina.

Welcome back, ChronicSlob! We hear your Aspie rage.

[quote]Boomer here. I wear jeans and sneakers daily because I’m retired, but I do dress for errands, shopping, social events, etc.

What, exactly, do you wear to "dress for errands, shopping"?

R208/R209, You can heave your breasts at me all you want, but the fact is that foundation garments are the basis of ladies’ style. Crazy fads in ethnic third world countries hardly compare.

I’m sorry that being aesthetically appealing is no longer of concern to the Amazonian women of today.

R179 = Lesbian

Fast food and Walmart.

Op, it could be worse.

From this....

To this...

R216: Not only is that indecent but unsanitary. This is a fine example of why dress codes are necessary.

I liked it before men started wearing cargo shorts, or the awful baggy shorts that fall below the knee. Even bermuda shorts were better. Go back to 70s or 80s. Come on, show some leg!

Hey r207, Women do wear shapewear, it's called, "Spanx". However maybe you should bring back shapewear for men, it does give such a great posture and a tiny waist:

Kate Middleton is trying to bring nylons back. I hope it works.

Who invented the first cargo short?

The military, idiot.

Why does not knowing that make me an idiot, R222?

Those pics at R218 SO turned me on ! Almost more than a nude shot . The one of the soldier on deck shooting gave me a half woody !

Because you demonstrated your ignorance, R223. You did it again at R223. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at cargo shorts and see that they closely resemble combat wear. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to trace any strictly utilitarian aesthetic back to military designs or origins. It helps not to be completely without a damn clue, however.

Anything else you need explained to you?

R225 pull the stick out of your ass MARY ! Its not that fucking important in the grand scheme of things.

Nylons and panty hose are very "60 something flyover frau' who shops at Dress Barn." Fashionable in NYC women wear dark tights in winter and bare leg in summer.

Yes, dark tights in winter are good and have been for decades. The bare legs in summer though looks like crap. Unprofessional.

I don't think the "flyover frau" is wearing nylons.

Kindly STFU, R226. R223 asked me a question and I answered it. Move the fuck on, toots. You’ll get over it eventually.

It was not an unreasonable question, r230. Not everyone would think of the military. How many gay men have actually worn, or even seen, “combat wear”?

I am always dressed in full battle gear when I post on DL.

Agree, R224. Thanks, R218! I was a teenager in the '70s and wore clothing like that into the 80s--especially after gyms went mainstream. It didn't feel unusual or even sexy--it just was. Now men are wearing culottes.

LOL R232

I thought nylon stockings were making a comeback and commented on it to a fashionable NYC coworker the other day. She told me they're all wearing Spanx, that's what's driving the comeback.

Roseanne.

When did Americans become slobs? In the late 1980's, when our quality of life started going down. Wall Street started taking over America. We started having to work more than other industrialized countries.

We work MUCH, MUCH more, we get less vacation (MUCH less vacation) and we get shittier benefits than other industrialized countries. We're too damned tired to get dressed up. We're just trying to survive

Women are permitted to wear unprofessional clothing in many offices. I’ve been to quite a few professional offices with attorneys, doctors, etc. I’ve seen women with flip flops, sun dresses, etc., in warm weather. In cold weather, they wear the stirrup pants and even sweatshirts. It casts a negative light.

The men, of course, have to be dressed in a suit, ties and shoes, which is appropriate. As a man, since I dress professionally, I feel professional and act professionally. Clothes do make the man and it’s the same with women.

A woman in an office should either wear a professional dress, a suit, or dress slacks. She should wear appropriate shoes and hosiery. If professional clothes are tailored and/or an appropriate size, they will be comfortable.

Quite a few times, at work, women, who don’t deal face to face with the public, wear pink sweat pants, sneakers and a sweatshirt. Of course, this is for “comfort”, because they’re either too lazy to dress properly or refuse to buy professional clothes. If they can’t find any in their size, there’s Lane Bryant. (Yes, one them is a big woman.)

This is how

[quote]Women are permitted to wear unprofessional clothing in many offices. I’ve been to quite a few professional offices with attorneys, doctors, etc. I’ve seen women with flip flops, sun dresses, etc., in warm weather. In cold weather, they wear the stirrup pants and even sweatshirts. It casts a negative light.

This is relatively new. Women used to dress professionally. A big part of it is the ugly clothes in the stores for women - 'ho clothes are dominant. The professional look for women has been banned. Look at tv news - cleavage and bare arms. It is sexism and slobby combined.

I work in advertising and I can tell you that nobody dresses up. The dress code is extremely casual. The quickest way to come off looking and old and out of touch is come in wearing an old fashioned suit and tie.

I don't know what R237 does for a living but the office environment sounds dreadful.

r239 is right. If you go to any department store, most of the women's clothing is tacky, whorish "Real Housewives" shit. The tasteful clothing for women is usually found in the high-end stores, and is unaffordable for many.

The fashion industry clearly hates women.

As for the bare legged look, unless you are under 30 and have perfect legs, wear pants or hosiery in a corporate setting.

The bare legs was the start of the unprofessional look with women. It doesn't really look good even on young women (with professional clothes)

Get in the FUCKING robot Shinji, or R232 will have to do it again.

R237 here.

It’s a very sad commentary that, in some offices, that wearing a suit and tie makes one look old and out of touch. I chose to rise above it.

If I owned a business with an office, men would be required to wear a suit and tie and women would wear a proper dress, professional slacks, or a business suit.

By the way, I am a gay, liberal Democrat.

As for women being unable to find professional clothes, there are clothiers that provide professional wardrobes for women. Department stores offer professional women’s clothes, as well.

Ten years ago, I worked in an office and if you "dressed up" a little bit, people assumed you had a job interview for somewhere else that day.

You're not as liberal as you think you are, prissy sissy r245.

Most modern men hate wearing a suit and tie. I'm not saying we should dress like slobs, but a suit and tie on a daily basis is just uncomfortable and out-of-date.

In my day, the only women who wore slacks were Lesbian. A dress (with girdle, hose, and brassiere) should be mandatory. So should makeup.

Who cares about what’s comfortable? Life is not about what’s comfortable. A proper image must be presented at all times.

Wearing a different suit every day is expensive. One reason why lots of companies got rid of that rule.

Again, if a suit is properly tailored and the dress shirt fits well, there should be no discomfort. When meeting the public, professionals should dress well.

There are few standards left. Would you trust an attorney that wears a baseball cap, jeans, a t-shirt and flip flops in a court of law? Would you trust a banker who is dressed the same way?

Wearing a suit and tie if you're in an office all day? No thanks. A nice pair of dress pants and a shirt or sweater are fine.

This is a class issue. The resentment is against people who cannot afford to have tailor-made wardrobes.

Most people buy off the rack. And for some people hear, that means they are slobs.

Zuckerberg can afford to dress better

[quote]This is a class issue. The resentment is against people who cannot afford to have tailor-made wardrobes.

Honest to god, sometimes DL is like a conversation amongst my long-dead great aunts.

One or two may be talking about tailored clothes

Everyone else is sick of flip flops, hoodies, t-shirts, legging/yoga pants, pajamas, sweats, and all the other ugly crap that people wear all the time, even to work.

I don't wear any of the clothing listed in r257, except sweats at home.

R245: Overpriced womenswear in department stores is mostly made for anyone who is built like Nancy Reagan. A size four tweed jacket looks sophisticated but would not fit most American women today.

Most women aren't built that way so they often cannot find professional clothing. Even the people who design so-called "plus size" clothing evidently don't take into consideration that some women actually do have shoulders.

[quote]I chose to rise above it.

And yet you choose to judge everyone who doesn't conform to your narrow (and narrow-minded) definitions of what is appropriate to wear.

[quote]Everyone else is sick of flip flops, hoodies, t-shirts, legging/yoga pants, pajamas, sweats, and all the other ugly crap that people wear all the time, even to work.

Apparently not, given the number of people who wear such clothing. And, somehow, the sky refuses to fall and businesses manage to thrive. Funny how that works.

[quote]There are few standards left.

Good.

[quote]Would you trust an attorney that wears a baseball cap, jeans, a t-shirt and flip flops in a court of law? Would you trust a banker who is dressed the same way?

Of course. Why not?

Perhaps they were hoping that their attire would get them out of having to serve.

R259, women can’t find professional clothing because they’re fat, is what I’m hearing. They need to lose weight. I partly blame the decline of smoking for American obesity, as well as the “all natural/organic” craze. People are afraid of medication, and all the effective weight management medication has been taken off the market or over-regulated. The result is a nation of very fat people.

No, the reason is at R241

Sloppy pajama bottoms and greasy yoga pants is not the look. I don't care but it's ugly.

I love clothes. My mother worked in fashion so I've always been atuned to fit and cut. Most of my clothes are black. I love white collared shirts, fine natural materials, being a bit chic.

R266 are you make or female?

R264: No, there used to be professional clothing available to some degree even in larger sizes until the economic recession.

As for people being afraid of medication, I don't agree. Prescription drugs are likely part of the reason why obesity has gotten worse. If an antihistamine can cause an increase of appetite with a few doses, imagine what something more strong could do in a very short period of time? Most Americans are probably taking some form of prescription drugs regularly.

Life was much neater when nurses had to wear white caps, white dresses for uniforms, and white stockings.

Casual Fridays

So many of you sound like you won't be happy until "barefoot, in the kitchen, making a sandwich" is the constant state of all women. So strange that gay guys are just as sexist as their straight brethren. Your continued focus on their attire says so much about you.

I am too poor to have proper clothes.

I work in a call center. Our dress code is business casual.

Today a woman came in to work wearing old chino shorts, a tight t-shirt and cheap flip flops. She's worked there a year. My boss emailed her that she had to go home and change. She turns around and says to me (in front of another supervisor), "can you believe they are going to make me go home and change?", "Since when are we not allowed to wear shorts?". I said, "have you ever seen anyone in shorts?". She said, "no". I said, that's because we're not allowed to wear shorts.

She went home and came back an hour later in leggings and a tight t-shirt, with her cheap flip flops. The leggings ended at her knee. This bitch is really pushing her luck. We have another woman that wears Crocs to work every day.

These people are honestly too fucking stupid to know what "business casual" is (even though it's thoroughly explained in our handbook)

The one who is too poor for proper clothes... Shop second hand, get thrifty. Save up for classic pieces you can wear again and again. I'm an eco-freak, I love thrifting.

Pulled together outfits elevate the wearer.

[quote]Pulled together outfits elevate the wearer who likes pulled together outfits.

Fixed.

Reality check- Sloppy outfits don't look better than neat ones.

Its not the clothing that is expensive, its hiring the tailor that is.

I did follow the tailoring advice on one of these threads. Often, I just roll up the bottoms of new pants, but I decided to have them fitted to me. I don't think I'll ever do it any other way.

R271: How is it sexist that people here are discussing fashion related to both men and women? I'd imagine well-dressed ladies would feel more liberated than someone who is poorly dressed. Why is femininity such a threat to you?

R273: I'm amazed how such a person is able to remain employed for that long.

Most of the people on the thread are not discussing "fashion," r279; they are telling people what they should wear and judging them harshly if they do not fit into their narrow-minded views. And with respect to women, many of the posts here are rather offensive in their language and in their assumptions.

r280- I'm assuming that person is a troll with their antiquated notions.

The prevalence of jeans, t-shirts and sneakers, surely. Although the French would wear those (albeit the sneakers) with great fabrics and accessories and it would be chic.

Of course people are not talking about people who have no money to buy clothes. I know some want to dress better but can't

This is about those who choose to dress like crap

The obvious question, R282, is why do you care so much about someone else's personal choices?

R282 is making an observation, not prostrate with concern.

Read the thread, R284. And, in particular, look at r282's other comments. The question still stands.

Unless he or his clothing smells, I couldn't care less what someone else is wearing. It would not occur to me on any day of my life. Of all the the hills to choose to die on, this is one of the silliest.

I live in New England, work in the downtown of a fairly depressed small city. I agree with a poster above who mentioned that the look of a city is depressing when everyone (not everyone, but that's it feels) is dressed as some down and out homeless wreck or that they just rolled out of bed and didn't check a mirror before hitting the streets.

Yesterday I was walking toward my car, down a side street and a man younger than me (in his 30s?) in a suit crossed the street to get to a restaurant. He was so attractive in the urban scene. Tall and fit, he was wearing a blue suit that fit nicely, plaid shirt with a tie. He had a a great pair of light brown shoes. He was a red head with a nicely trimmed beard.

I mention this because it did catch my eye... I did pause to look and admire (note to self, where did he get those shoes!?)... he did improve the surroundings, he was attractive.

If it had been another slob or homeless wreck or sloppy guy, I wouldn't have noticed enough to write this.

So if you don't want to dress nicely, don't take pride in your appearance, choose to believe that it has no impact on how you're treated or how others see you and what they think of you, fine - but you're deluding yourself. In the long run, the world may come to dress down in the same manner, but not me. I'll continue to wear trousers that fit at the waist and wrap my ass nicely. I'll iron button down shirts, wear an undershirt to the office (since ties are not required) try to keep a few pair shoes for work and socializing. And yes, continue to KNOW that I look good and others notice, admire, comment and appreciate.

R285 who cares. This is a gossip board, and the thread topic is American slobs and their slide into slobbery over an as-yet undetermined period of time.

R282 isn't spying into the neighbor's house for gossip. He's making commentary about what's in the public arena. You know, visual manifestations of people's personal choices and all.

[quote]Unless he or his clothing smells, I couldn't care less what someone else is wearing. It would not occur to me on any day of my life. Of all the the hills to choose to die on, this is one of the silliest.

Ditto.

[quote]In the long run, the world may come to dress down in the same manner, but not me.

Oh, thank goodness! We were all so worried about this! Thank god you are maintaining your standards. I just don't know what we would have done if you didn't.

[quote]who cares

Apparently, the drama queens obsessing over what others choose to wear and wringing their hands, like everyone quoted in R197.

r287 You probably look as tightassed as you type. I could never wear an undershirt, let alone all your other "KNOW I look good" regalia.

[quote]And yes, continue to KNOW that I look good and others notice, admire, comment and appreciate.

Meanwhile, I will continue to KNOW that I'm comfortable, that I spend very little on clothes, that I look the way I want to look, and that those whose opinions I care about don't give a shit what I wear. Just as I will love KNOWING that the judgmental queens aghast because I'm wearing jeans or **gasp** sweat pants have their panties in a twist, which is their problem, not mine.

[quote]R282 isn't spying into the neighbor's house for gossip. He's making commentary about what's in the public arena. You know, visual manifestations of people's personal choices and all.

So? The question still stands: why do you care so much about what others choose to wear? Why do you care so much about someone else's personal choices?

And why such an extraordinary need to control something so basic that should be left to each individual?

But, but ... don't you see, R295? Women must (MUST, I say) wear foundation garments! Otherwise, it's the death of our civilization!!!!

Because again, R294 et al: this is a gossip board. OP's topic is about American slobs and their slide into slobbery. What are you not getting?

r297, gossip is not a matter of one poster's insistence on changing the behavior of other posters, which is what r282 and his ilk seem to want. For those of us who are not you two, gossip—i.e., the spread of information—is its own reward.

R298 I haven't insisted on changing anyone's behavior. The post at R282 didn't either. The topic of this thread is: American slobs and their slide into slobbery. What are you not getting?

[quote]Yesterday I was walking toward my car, down a side street and a man younger than me (in his 30s?) in a suit crossed the street to get to a restaurant. He was so attractive in the urban scene. Tall and fit, he was wearing a blue suit that fit nicely, plaid shirt with a tie. He had a a great pair of light brown shoes. He was a red head with a nicely trimmed beard.

And, if you had entered the restaurant and this well-dressed, noticeable man was berating the waitstaff while the slovenly dressed person at the next table was nothing but polite and gave the same berated waitperson an extra large tip before leaving, who would you judge to be the better person?

The problem with so many on this thread is that you are, literally, judging the book by its cover and acting self-righteous and snooty about it. Grow up. Clothes have no meaning beyond their ability to cover the private body parts while not assaulting others with their smell.

[quote]I haven't insisted on changing anyone's behavior. The post at [R282] didn't either.

[quote]This is about those who choose to dress like crap.

R299, if you can't see that the logical corollary to your telling people they dress like crap is that they not "dress like crap," [italic]i.e., change their behavior[/italic] , then I don't know what to tell you. In any case, I'm done with the topic, and I'm done with you. I hope when you die and go to hell, your only clothing choices are between "orange" and either "too big" or "too small," depending on the day of the week.

R287: Good for you, sir!

[quote]I haven't insisted on changing anyone's behavior.

Then you're not the one that he's talking about. You did read the thread, right? The whole thread?

[quote]The post at R282 didn't either.

The person who wrote that post absolutely did, though. Read his other posts.

[quote]The topic of this thread is: American slobs and their slide into slobbery. What are you not getting?

The part where the judgmental drama queens act as control freaks. What part of that are you not getting?

R303 What I get is that this is a gossip board and we get to discuss OP's topic: American slobs and their slide into slobbery. You know, pointless bitchery and all?

And we're discussing the judgmental drama queen control freaks who obsess over the choices that others make and seem to have hissy fits and fainting spells over the thought of someone choosing to dress in a way that they don't like.

So we're both happy.

R305 You'd think a simple inquiry into what drives this need for control would yield a simple answer. But bitches not be talkin'.

I wish sports jerseys would go away. Those are just so trashy.

Okay, fine: I'll compromise. I'll iron my sweatpants tomorrow. Okay?

It could be worse; it could be a 435-post thread on wearing shoes without socks....

Now that's a national emergency.

Bitches ain't bothered with triggered-out-of-her-mind Miss Mess at R303.

Have we talked about droopy titties yet?

Don't want to see scaly skin, bruised and knocked up knees. Put some stocking on those stems.

Don't want to see any disgusting monkey hair other than the top of the head on any males. Cover that shit up.

This is THE website for gay men who want to dress like prissy HETEROS!

The videos are simply...special.

Thanks for the link, R313! There's some great info buried in there. One mistake guys make is buying a trendy suit that is rarely used and ages quickly. That's money wasted. Beginning with a classic-cut navy, charcoal or grey gives the owner a lot of flexibility and it can be worn for years, dressed up or down depending on the need, and easily refreshed with a shirt, tie or pocket square. I was lucky to have a dresser guide me with regard to buying some basics at first, and then I was able to add more pieces as I could afford them or to add a little dash (like in R313's link).

Paul Frederick online has a great selection of trim-fit shirts, ties, and a clearance section that can be hit-or-miss. TheTieBar.com has an awesome selection of inexpensive, very well-made ties. For a beautifully-made custom suit, check out Sam Surin--a local rep will measure you and help choose fabric, lining, buttons and finish-out. The the suit is assembled in Bangkok, shoved into a Fedex box and shipped directly. I was skeptical but the referrals were consistently positive and the price is good. Surin also makes each suit with two pairs of pants, which adds to the value.

There was a discussion earlier upthread about women's professional clothing...they really do get hosed. I can't believe what some of my female co-workers have to pay, as-or-more-expensive than mine, and the sizes are all over the map. At least men's shirt and chest sizes are consistent across vendors.

This is so true! Everyone dresses like they're on "Roseanne" now all the time. The trump supporters have taken over everything, including local fashion and lack of cleanliness!

Nah, it's the dirty hippies, R315.

And then there's Trump.... Proof that a suit does not help a natural slob.

The over tattooization of the human body looks sloppy to me. The neck and face tattoos are hideous. The prison style tattoos where they print words on the arm. They call it body art. Whatever.

[quote] The over tattooization of the human body looks sloppy to me.

The piercings don't help.

Apr 6 - Virginia Beach woman with amazing face tattoo (and piercings) arrested threatening to blow up 7-Eleven store

R211, this is what I mean by dressing for errands, etc:

Khakis or cords, not jeans.

Good coat or jacket, not a sweat shirt or gym clothes.

Loafers, not sneakers or cross trainers.

You're a priss, R320.

I would wear whatever necessary to get out of jury duty.

I think that Trump is hiding his colostomy bag...

[quote]I think that Trump is hiding in his colostomy bag...

Fixed.

Women's need to control the narrative & society and be comfortable everywhere. They're sloveny FUCKS!

Thread Closed.

[quote]The trump supporters have taken over everything, including local fashion and lack of cleanliness!

You’re right R315. This whole trend started the minute Trump was sworn in. People in the inaugural parade were seen to actually be changing clothes. SMH.

I don’t like Trump either, but is there ANYTHING we don’t blame on him?

R310 apparently Shampoo is against her religion

A lawyer I know, who represents indigent clients in family court and low-level criminal matters, told me she gave up trying to get clients with a court appearance to "dress well" or "dress like you're going to dinner with your grandmother" or even to "dress like you're interviewing for a good job," because so few people, even paying clients, really know what that means. She now just puts in writing something like "no shorts, no flip-flops, no vulgar t-shirts, and try to cover large tattoos."

I do not care that much about what people wear in the office, but I used to have two managers from UK working with me (one female and the other one male), and they put absolutely no effort even when they were going to client meetings, which were essentially sales pitches. We would travel to France or Italy, where everyone usually dresses really nicely, and the guy would wear a £100 Next suit which hasn't seen an iron since its purchase. The female one was the same, wearing some battered ballet flats and some baggy jeans to the meetings. Both of them were earning ~£80,000 an could easily afford one or two sets of clothes that looked good and neat. Yes, yes professionalism is what should matter, but showing the client you care enough to dress up when you're meeting them does make a trick, at least in Europe.

You lied in your first sentence, r329. You care your ass off.

I don’t like or hang around people that care about what other people wear or are clothes snobs. I vibe with other chill, laid back easy going peeps. Hoodies, polos, t shirts, basketball shorts, beanies, sneakers, we’re good.

328- she could tell them, "Dress like you're going to church".

I guess that is supposed to be funny, but I doubt they are going to church