Dressed to Kill - Brian de Palma

Angie was boning JFK in 1962 but you will never hear a peep out of her about it.

Because she is a lady and has too much class.

So unlike the MeToo trash.

I like Nancy Allen in it. She's funny, and appealing.

I live this movie too. De Palma was a great director. Blow out the following year is also a classic.

And Nancy allen is excellent too.

I adore it. In fact, I first discovered DL after googling the film and finding an old thread about it here. It's time we had a new one. Coincidentally, I bought it on DVD a few weeks ago. I'll watch it again later now. Thanks, OP!

I am going to watch it again too. Has anyone seen the great documentary on de Palma and his work? It wa out last year I believe.

Great movie! The museum scene really captured the excitement and tension of a gay cruising scene, for the first time I can recall being depicted on film.

J'adore Pino Donaggio's score. His work on de Palma's films really was brilliant. And speaking of him, he had a total case of BDF when younger. I have no doubt he was hiding a big Italian salami in his pants.

The nurse shoes !!! At the end. The nightmare sequence was stressful, even though it is a retread of what he did with Carrie.

The elevator scene is such a rip-off/reference to the Psycho shower scene yet it's so effective and terrifying.

Polish sizemeat is legendary and we still remember the magnificent foot-longs we observed in the locker room/showers of the heavily Polish high schol we attended!

The elevator scene still gives me chills. But how did the killer know Angie would be returning to that floor to the apartment to get her wedding ring?!

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't love this movie. The museum sequence was too long, I didn't buy that that cute dark haired boy was her son, and who gets their pussy eaten out in a cab in broad daylight in the middle of NYC. And Angie wasn't convincing as a women who's just contracted god knows fucking what from her anonymous lay. And she definitely wasn't convincing as a woman practically getting disemboweled in an elevator.

[quote]After many viewings, you can still find something new.

After many viewings, you can still find more derivative content.

True, r14, but it still works. Also, Like Psycho i find it an incredible sad movie, where the heroine dies before dhe can truly repent.

R12, i always had that question, it is silly but the only answer is coincidence (though you don’t usually enter an elevator with your raizor raised).

I love the creepy little girl.

Pshycho? Was I in that?

OP, I think it's one of the funniest AND most supsenseful movies ever made--that's very rare to find in a movie. I would argue it is more suspenseful than any of the movies he did prior. I love how, like many of De Palma's movies, he emulates the masters while also skewering film archetypes. Many people miss that De Palma is part Godard too.

Michael Caine freaked me out in this movie. Probably didn't help that i had no idea what it was about the first time i saw it.

Lucy wanted the Angie Dickinson part but Gary told her not to do it.

I was so impressed with this movie when it came out I went back a week later and saw it again.

Great split screen & implied split screen, lots of mirrors and mirror images, a great score.

It’s the first movie where I saw a full frontal naked woman. I vowed a life of gayness after that.

Brian DePalma was one of the worst directors ever. He was astonishingly misogynistic - most of his films have their women humiliated, brutalized, and stripped naked. And the fact that almost every film was a rip off of Hitchcock (do I really need to point out the similarities between Dressed to Kill/Psycho, Obsession/Vertigo, etc). And not only Hitchcock - Blow Out is a rip off of Blow Up, the baby carriage going down the steps in The Untouchables - geez! The films he did on his own - Bonfires of the Vanities, Casualties of War - complete bombs. Compare his body of work to Scorsese, Coppola, Spielberg - his contemporaries - if you will.

R12, the killer was following her duh.

And is "who gets their pussy eaten out in a cab in NYC in broad daylight?" the new "Why do fools fall in love?"

R23, I agree that to some extent the movie is completely misogynistic, Angie is objectified from frontal nudity to a carcass. That’s one of the reasons why I said it wouldn’t be made today. I completely disagree about being the worse director ever. On tne contrary, he has a handful of masterpieces,. He doesn’t copy Hichcock, he reinvents him.

The only Hitch rip-off film of his that isn't fabulous is Obsession. It's an interesting film but it really drags.

So does Vertigo, r26.....

R25, exactly. But are the people on here saying he is mysognistic for having a woman naked commenting from the 50s here? His movies are ABOUT how film frequently objectifies women. Hence, the movie Femme Fatale being a giant "fuck you" to Billy Wilder's Double Indemnity and film noir fatalism in general.

I wasn't as crazy about "Dressed to Kill" since so much of it is Hitchcock inspired _ aim surprised Dickinson wasn't attacked by a flock of birds before finally expiring- but I do like little flourishes about it. Especially poor Nancy Allen running down to the more crowded area of the subway platform only to be menaced by a gang.

Oooooo, I LUV Nancy Allen's '80's make-up @ R20!

[quote]R29 His movies are ABOUT how film frequently objectifies women.

Um, no. That doesn't really fly. He doesn't have the artistic depth to pull off some kind of ironic commentary like that.

His true nature was revealed by telling (beauty contest winner) Deborah Shelton she didn't have "a DePalma Body" while shooting BODY DOUBLE, then redubbing her voice with Helen Shaver's. It's the superficial that concerns him, primarily.

Why couldn’t it be made today?

de Palma used a body double for Angie's shower scene. Angie was quickly approaching 50-years old when the movie was filmed; yet the body shot in the DTK's shower scene was a that of a younger woman with rockin' hawt young bod, minus the sun damage -

As r27 finally pointed out, Dressed to Kill has much more in common with Vertigo than Psycho, both thematically and stylistically.

And as for getting eaten out in a taxi, I doubt you were around in the '70s. It was a much more liberated time than today and we did it in the streets.

[quote]R33 de Palma used a body double for Angie's shower scene. Angie was quickly approaching 50-years old when the movie was filmed; yet the body shot in the DTK's shower scene was a that of a younger woman with rockin' hawt young bod, minus the sun damage -

Yes. The body in question belonged to Penthouse Playmate Victoria Lynn Johnson.

R31, he DID do exactly that, in Femme Fatale (the entire film is a reaction against film noir and fatalism).

I thought Angie’s husband was hot as was the guy in the shower and her taxi pick up.

I’m sure the T brigade would raise all kinds of hell today concerning Bobbie.

ironic aint it. today, we so advanced eh, the trannys would pc it to death....etc

angie stole the movie from nancy: hot momma

A better picture of Victoria Lynn Johnson. If someone else is going to be your 80s body double, Angie drew a winner.

Angie swears that it was her body in that shower, bush and all.

R32, among other reasons: - trans killer with a razor; - full frontal nudity and complicated sexual frankness; - older woman appears to be the lead; - older Woman sexuality - woman as object (oh, wait).

It is also a truly adult film.

r40 I think on the DVD, Angie admits she didn't know they were using a body double and they were going to insert "beaver shots".

I love this film. The Criterion Collection Blu-ray is a must.

This film is so entertaining. Great performances by Angie Dickinson, Michael Caine, Nancy Allen and Keith Gordon. The museum scene. The murder sequence. The reveal. The ending. Capturing NYC in a bygone era. When films were made for adults.

I don't think De Palma is a misogynist.

Angie's performance is very strong. She brings sensitivity to the role that makes you root for her and her death is distressing because we've spent so much time with her in the film already. Much like Janet Leigh's death in Psycho. Also, this was a period in Michael Caine's career where he was making interesting choices and playing darker characters (Deathtrap, The Hand).

[quote]R42 her death is distressing because we've spent so much time with her in the film already. Much like Janet Leigh's death in Psycho.

Much like? More, exactly like.

DePalma has always been visually accomplished, but that's the extent of his gift.

r43 we get it. You think he's a Hitchcock rip-off.

As a teen, I had a small crush on Keith Gordon when I saw this film. NOT attractive, but I found his ingenuity to be weirdly hot.

He is a visual story teller but that’s his gift. He also gets great performances from his actors and casts well. Mission Impossible is also an excellent film.

I'm 61, R34, so yeah. I was around in the 70's, you fucking idiot.

[quote]R44 we get it. You think he's a Hitchcock rip-off - [italic]Marion Crane[/italic]

Go jump in a cold shower, Marion.

I like about a third of his movies, among them SNAKE EYES (even though Gary Sinese isn't a great choice for his part...he's too slimy and ominous.)

R28 Not nearly as misogynistic as Body Double! Could the murder scene with Deborah Shelton be any more gratuitious? After loving Carrie and Dressed to Kill, I have to say I hated Body Double. With the exception of Melanie Griffith and, once again, Pino's brilliant soundtrack.

Where where you living in the 1970s. r47, to be asking whether the taxi scene was believable? Aiken, South Carolina? It was outrageous but not unbelievable to anyone in a major city back then. Have you ever lived in a cosmopolitan environment, you smug old thing yourself?

DRESSED TO KILL is not set in the 1970s.

Not only did Angie have a body double, Rutanya Alda dubbed her voice. DePalma filmed Angie and thought her delivery was laughable, so he hired Rutanya to dub. That's Rutanya moaning during the orgasm, and screaming in the elevator. When it came out, I thought Angie was robbed of and Oscar nomination for supporting, but changed my mind after learning that.

I was Miss Dickinson's body double!

Angie was pissed when it got out they'd inserted shots of a body double, and griped something like,[italic] "Why tell them it's Pittsburgh when they think it's Paris?"[/italic]

I don't think that was being terribly kind to Miss Johnson. I mean, she was Penthouse Pet of the Year, while Angie was a saggy bleached blonde in search of a comeback.

Dressed to Kill was shot from October, 1979 through mid January 1980 and written with pre-production even earlier. The milieu is obviously late 70s even if was released in 1980.

I loved it when it came out, but not as much in repeated viewings as Carrie. If not for Carrie, I'd think it a masterpiece. Instead it seems too redundant.

I think a problem is Keith Gordon and Michael Caine are fairly cold performers. And Nancy Allen can play warmth, but her character here is cold and businesslike. So the film becomes quite soulless once the character of Kate exits.

How many remember Dennis Franz's turn as an NYPD detective, pre-cursing his stints on Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue?

I don't what's available now but de Palma's first version was censored by less than a minute. The unallowed footage showed more nudity and more blood and slicing in the shower and more suggestive dialog between Liz and Elliott in his office.

Thanks, r60.

Michael Caine was extremely bold in his choice of roles. How many gay characters did he play? CALIFORNIA SUITE, DEATHTRAP, this (trans), MISS CONGENIALITY. Any others?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't get all the love for the museum scene. I thought it went on for far too long and I just didn't get the point.

not to get all college semiotics on this discussion (he says before doing exactly that) but the whole movie is about agency. The state or act of exerting power.

Kate Miller asserting her sexual needs. Dr Elliott asserting his true gendered and sexual self (albeit psychopathically). Liz asserting her feminine wiles to make money and maintain her own sense of self and control. And Peter bringing the full brunt of his high-tech (for the time) genius to bear to track down and capture his mother's killer.

DePalma underscores this with an innovative system of visual cues and camera work. If you get caught up in the genre trappings (it's a rip off of Psycho!!) you will hate it. But as a blast of pure cinema, I always found it absolutely exhilarating. And - as others have mentioned - funny!

I've always loved it. I don't think De Palma is a women hater at all. He made Carrie for Christ's sake. That's about as pro-woman a movie that I can think of. The entire film is filled with women driving every main movement of the plot. Sisters is another film like that. I think he paints both Angie and Nancy's characters rather empathetically here. I never felt like either woman was being judged for her mistakes or life choices. If anything, Angie's death is more of a cynical "gee, isn't life a bitch" punch in the face. If Angie got home after her little tryst and everything went back to normal, it wouldn't be a very interesting film, would it?

R64 excellent points. thanks. and i agree. a blast of pure cinema. and absolutely exhilarating. and the de palma documentary was on amazon prime for awhile. it is a great watch. seeing clips from all of his films over the years put together, you really see just how stunning he is with visuals. one of the best. and yes, the performances in his films are always first-rate too. and i don't think he is a misogynist either. that is an easy way to dismiss him. his work is way bigger than that.

Very few films shot a scene inside the WTC. It’s cool this film has the scene at Windows on the World

In 2011, I was standing at the corner of 6th Ave and 51st St in Manhattan, trying to hail a cab. While waiting, a cab turned off 51st onto 6th, and before it drove out of sight I quickly saw a guy and girl in the back, and the girl was wearing a skirt or short dress, her legs wide open, with her white panties clearly visible.

It still happens in this day and age.

I've gotten blown twice in a cab.

I'm also friends with a former cab driver. He said he's seen everything, in every permutation - guy on girl, guy on guy, girl on girl - in the back seat of his cab.

Femme Fatale is also a big "woman movie", of course a crazy and super meta one. I love it.

A whole scene about transexuals set in the Twin Tower's restaurant: you've got a whole doctoral thesis right there, folks!!

Femme Fatale is a decent movie.

Femme Fatale is De Palma's last great movie. It's fun. The camerawork is terrific. It's sexy and over the top. The only way to experience De Palma!

I was probably never going to see FEMME FATALE after assuming it was shit on a stick, but I've read a few glowing comments about it on here, so I'm going to see it for myself. You bitches better be right!!!

There are few scenes better than this. The sadness of Angie Dickson. Karen’s long demure clothes for a prostitute. How they exchange glances and roles. The razor.

Femme Fatale was a great movie in my opinion.

I didnt think I would like FF because of Rebecca Ramon....but she surprised me.

A cousin who just turned 50 sorta resembles Angie from this period. I don't know if she sees a therapist (or has nooners), but like Kate, she's upper middle class.

the way DePalma has Allen slowly figure out what is happening and then see the killer in the mirror, the music, editing, everything came together there.

Karen is actually named Liz though.

I just saw this again yesterday and man, does it get trashier and more laughable with each new viewing. That's not to say that there aren't flashes of brilliance. The last shower scene was masterfully done, as well as the segment on the train when the camera keeps panning back and forth between Liz and the annoyed cop. I loved the chemistry between Liz and the kid and how their friendship didn't go the obvious corny trope of the shy virgin getting deflowered by the harlot with a heart of gold.

But it's just so "ewww" to me. It's just a step below The Eyes of Laura Mars. Laura Mars was trashy, too, but in a fun way. This movie just gives me hives and want to take a shower afterward. Dickinson had that Melina Mecouri-in-Topkapki-thing going where she looked a day past her expiration date and yet was still being thrust in the role of sexpot. (That opening scene made be so embarrassed for her. I know it was a body double, but still...) I agree with R13 that she and the kid couldn't have looked less related. The museum scene could've been very clever but it was ridiculous, just way over the top for what it was supposed to be about. Michael Caine not only looks lost, you can literally hear him thinking the entire time you watch him, "Bloody 'ell! Why did I turn down the role of Robert Rusk in Hitchcock's Frenzy? I could kick meself!"

I don't hate the movie but it has too many flaws to make me love it as much as I could have.

Watching this now. It’s so laughably bad. And I already know the psychiatrist did it. Jesus, is this what passed for good in 1980?

Keith Gordon was so cute in a nerdy way.

I haven't read the comments yet because I don't want to spoil anything - but Carrie is the only de Palma movie I have seen, and I enjoyed it a lot. Would this be the next best one to watch? Or any other recommendations? I was listening to the Evolution of Horror podcast episode on Carrie the other night and they were praising de Palma a lot and made me want to see more of his stuff, just not sure where to start.

yes r83 you should see this one

ignore r81

No, don’t ignore R81.

Here's an interesting article about the film.

To me the key observation is: "One reason the film’s ominous reputation persists is that it feels closer to an expressionistic Italian giallo than a traditional Hitchcockian thriller. As interest in the giallo has surged over the past decade, Dressed to Kill feels like its American cousin."

R86, this is why I'm interested in exploring more of de Palma, I'd like to see more takes on the Italian horror genre, often the look and atmosphere is so great. They were saying on the podcast I mentioned above that Carrie has a nod in that direction too, which I realized is part of why I like that film so much as well.

The running time isn't that long, so it wouldn't be too much time out of my life. I reckon I'll check this out for sure and get back with my thoughts. Will see what you have to say then, R81 😉

Sam Irvin, DePalma's assistant, and the writer of the Kay Thompson bio among other books, has written about DTK as well.

It's way funnier than Psycho and less of a slog. I don't think I've seen funny and scary combined better.;.

Saw it when first released eons ago. I enjoyed the movie far less than it deserved. The suspense was totally ruined by a too cutesy by half reviewer who, in the course of a completely over-the-top gushing rave, gave away the reveal solely for the sake of a clever turn of phrase on his write up.

R19, she was 20 years older than Angie Dickinson, who was nearly 50 at the time.

No question De Palma is completely erivative but his camera work is hypnotic.

"No question De Palma is completely erivative but his camera work is hypnotic." all art is derivative.

DePalma answered his critics who called him derivative by doing a film called "Raising Cain" where he was derivative of his own past films.

It has a fantastic trailer.

R94, to be fair, De Palma is constantly referencing his own movies--he did in Femme Fatale too.

"Angie swears that it was her body in that shower, bush and all."

R40 No, she doesn't. Only some of it was. My ex interviewed her once and she said she was told by the crew they would be doing "beaver shots" in the shower while she took a break from the filming. Clearly, she acknowledged that the beaver shots were not of her.

DTK is intensely misogynistic but, if you can put your politics on hold for 2 fucking hours and go for the suspense ride, it's plays like a masterpiece.

I'm not sure, r81. I'm trying to remember. I think it was more lauded for its entertainment/shock value and considered good in the sense that it accomplished that. And I suppose there were academic discussions on how adept/successful he was at copying Hitchcock. Todd Haynes was much more successful making a Sirk film than De Palma was emulating Hitchcock.

[quote] DTK is intensely misogynistic

Not really.

[quote] Todd Haynes was much more successful making a Sirk film than De Palma was emulating Hitchcock.

That's because De Palma also used techniques from other directors, not just Hitchcock.

I thought Keith Gordon was so sexy when he went all dark and psycho in Christine.

I wish Angie DIckenson was in the movie a bit longer. I watched it about four months ago - it's sort of wild. It wouldn't get made because of the "offensive" trans stuff and even beyond that, the way it's structured, written, and shot - you just don't see that much anymore.

I especially loved the sequence in the museum and the sequences that followed it: the cab ride, the "discovery" in the apartment, the trip down the elevator and the fateful trip back up.

All almost without any dialogue.

Caine seemed to be in every second movie in the 80s. The year after "Dressed to Kill" he did another suspense-horror, Oliver Stone's "The Hand", which is bad, except for him and little Mara Hobel (pre-Scarwid Christina Crawford, of course), who are both excellent.

Wasn't Dressed to Kill also around the time of Deathtrap. I loved that movie as a kid and I didn't really fully understand what was going on. I thought it was cool that "Superman" was in a regular movie.

Love the glove wave from the taxi.

The medical letter found in the desk drawer.

Michael Caine.

I saw this first when I was about 14 or so and immediately conceived a huge crush on Keith Gordon, who I thought was the prettiest, cutest, nerdiest guy I'd ever seen (as a nerd myself I felt an affinity). The thing is I must have seen it on network TV, because I don't remember any nudity or graphic violence or language. Many, many years later I rented it and sat down to watch it with my parents, having vague memories that it was an interesting thriller. We had the Director's Cut. They were very taken aback, as was I.

I think it's an interesting film, much closer to a giallo (which I love) than anything by Hitchcock. And Keith is still very cute in this although I have no idea what is going on with his hair in this movie. Is it feathered? Blown out? Did he stick his finger in a light socket? What?

The best way to watch the film now is to watch the original MGM blu ray. The one from Criterion looks and sounds terrible. Even though it's a director approved transfer, the picture looks washed out and the sound is fucking MONO. It may have sounded that way in the theater in 1980, but the MGM disc has bolder color and a beautiful remixed 5.1 sound field that greatly enhances the score. It sounds incredible. And with the music adding so much to the film, the thrills are multiplied by the quality sound. It has the cover below. Watch this version, much more effective.

Great insight/suggestion r108, thanks. It’s on Criterion streaming now and yes it looks and sounds a bit washed out IMO.

I still have the Varese Sarabande cassette of Pino Donaggio’s score. I used to listen to it while cruising Central Park completely stoned in the early 90s. HA. I was such a dark fag.

I just watched this for the first time last night and am obsessed. Brilliant direction, score and it’s truly a crime that Angie was nominated for an Oscar. Her performance was riveting and the museum sequence was exhilarating (as was the subway chase).

The opening scene in the show was so campy and silly- I thought, what am I in for? Valley of the Dolls? And then it gets scary and creepy, all the while slipping in funny moments. The only other De Palma I’ve seen is Carrie and now I want to see more.

R110 Carrie is his best, Dressed to Kill second, and Blow Out the third. There are a few highlights here and there. Like Sisters. But beware, he can go overboard and lose focus. But when he's good, he's great.

I prefer Blow Out over Dressed To Kill but I guess I’m in a minority on that. I’m a big fan of Obsession as well. Saw that one as a kid and it made a lasting impression.

R112, most critics would agree with you about Blow Out. I love Dressed to Killl, Body Double, Blow Out, Carlito's Way, etc. But I think Femme Fatale is his absolute best movie.

Killer LGBTQs used to be a 'thing'.

But then... it still is: Stranger By The Lake; Tomcat; The Talented Mr. Ripley...

Phantom Of The Paradise is also terrific, in a seriously goofy way. But it’s a different genre altogether

Dressed to Kill is one of my favorites. I swear, whenever I meet a cross dresser or transgender person, and if they seem open, I ask them if they've seen the film and what they think of it. Every single ones loves it! Some are almost embarrassed about it and I've always found that hilarious. Very strange what things can pass. I mean, it's in the title, for Pete's sake.

I’ve surprisingly never seen The Fury. Don’t hear that one mentioned much so maybe it’s not one of his better ones. I think Rebecca Romijn has kept me from seeing Femme Fatale but seeing the positive reviews here I’ll check it out

There are moments in The Fury that are brilliant. It has one of the greatest "holy shit" deaths ever. But so much of it doesn't make basic sense and the dollops of comedy just flat out don’t work.

I saw The Fury recently. Kinda boring, not his best. They should have focused on the cat 'n mouse chase between John Cassavetes and Kirk Douglas; it played sorta like The Fugitive.

Instead, we get long stretches of Amy Irving trembling and Andrew Stevens 'acting' with his nostrils. And the special F/X are laughably outdated.

Bonus: cameos by Darryl Hannah and Melody Thomas (Nikki from "The Young & The Restless") as h.s. students.

Not for nothing but Sidney Sweeney in Euphoria is a dead ringer for Nancy Allen!

His popular hits. The Untouchables and Mission: Impossible both highlight his penchant for stylized visuals. At least he knows how to fill a frame.

The Andrew Stevens parts of The Fury are boring as shit. And he's a horrible actor.

Amy, Cassavettes, Douglas and Carrie Snodgress are great in it.

BLOW OUT in 15 shots.

Rewatched this over the weekend after seeing this thread and still love it so much. Pino Donaggio and Brian De Palma were meant to work with each other. Next to Hermann and Hitchcock, I can't think of a better composer/director team.

De Palma had a good run up until Mission Impossible. Besides Femme Fatale, most of his work after that has been lacking in some way. It seems to happen to most of the greats, especially in the horror genre. Argento, Carpenter, and Romero's films got the same way after the mid-90's or so. Craven had always sprinkled in some duds next to some great ones for his whole career so it wasn't as big of a shock to see him going from a decent thriller like Red Eye to a complete misfire like My Soul to Take.

Stunning shots in Dressed to Kill...so moody, so cool.

Fuck Scorsese. Fuck Spielberg.

Long live DE PALMA!

I freaking love 70s DePalma, but he peaked with pulp. Spielberg and Scorsese transcended it and survived to make good movies in this century. For my money, DePalma hasn’t made a solid film since The Untouchables.

That probably won’t be a popular opinion here. Ha.

R125 - another great shot with multiple perspectives . . .

Spielberg didn't transcend anything. He's a child in a man's body, someone who never grew up. I loathe Close Encounters so much.