Joni Mitchell Detests Judy Collins

I believe it. Met Judy once, and she was a mean nasty bitch. Not only disrespectful and haughty, but quite possibly in need of a fix or a drink at the time. (Early-Mid 90's) I can't see her getting on w/Joni. Most interesting thread this is! Hope this blossoms....

Joni isn’t exactly diplomatic with her feelings.

Joni's a bitter old bitch.

Joni isn't well physically, but think she's still there mentally. Anyone else know of others sharing this opinion of Jusy?

I know nothing about Judy, bit her daughter was one of the worst View cohosts, which is saying something.

Excrete on Judy Blue Eyes

Joni Mitchell detests everyone except Joni Mitchell.

Who's Judy Collins?

Link please, OP.

I love Joni but isn't she brain dead?

Mitchell is delusional if she thinks her version would have hit #1. Collins' version is good (certainly not as good as Mitchell's), but her version of Chelsea Morning is awful with that "pop" arrangement. The issue I have with Collins in general is that she tends to superficially glide over a song instead of providing an individual interpretation- she rides on the overall loveliness of her voice.

It's funny, but I recall reading an interview with Collins where she talked about how Mitchell "encouraged" her to write more of her own songs. The first thing I thought was that Mitchell just wanted Collins to stop mucking up her songs.

I just read the new Mitchell bio "Reckless Daughter" and, yes, Joni has nothing but unkind words for Judy Collins.

Apparently Collins once asked David Crosby: "Why does Joni hate me?" His response: "Joni hates everybody."

Joni even trashes Mozart, for chrissakes! She dismisses most of his music ("except his nocturnes") as "wallpaper for princes."

She's a salty bitch and I love her for it.

My version of Send in the Clowns should have gone to #1.

r12 your post made me love Joni even more!

The songwriter doesn't get a say about who does covers of their work?

I know some must -- I saw Dolly Parton telling a story about Elvis wanting to cover "I Have Always Loved You" but he (or his colonel manager or whatever) demanded "rights" to the song, or some such, and she said she hated to say no, but she had to. "You don't give away your baby - all my songs are my babies" - she said.

How can anyone detest this face?

* oops - I think it's "I WILL Always Love you"

No one cares about either of these two ancient women.

Is this like the Britney vs. Christina feud?

Bitches, the both of them

Barbra cloned her dog! That's what's important!

Joni hates you too, Joan @ r20.

Judy Collins (was? is?) a notorious drunk.

Joni doesn't think ANY woman is as good as her -- and fo the men, only Dylan, which is odd, as he can't sing for shit.

Judy is nasty, and she derives pleasure from it.

[quote] The songwriter doesn't get a say about who does covers of their work?

No. Artists are free to cover any other songwriter's work as long as they pay the appropriate royalty.

[quote] I know some must -- I saw Dolly Parton telling a story about Elvis wanting to cover "I Have Always Loved You" but he (or his colonel manager or whatever) demanded "rights" to the song, or some such, and she said she hated to say no, but she had to. "You don't give away your baby - all my songs are my babies" - she said.

What Col. Parker was demanding was co-songwriting credit, which is a very different thing. Back then (and even now) songwriters were encouraged to split their credit with a really big artist in exchange for that artist recording the song and making it a huge hit, the idea being half of something is better than all of nothing.

I'll give Joni a pass because she's a fucking genius.

Well there is that, r26.

R26, operative word "was" not "is".

Your post makes no sense, r28.

Is Beethoven less a genius because he's been dead for a couple of centuries? Joni's genius at her prime isn't diminished simply because she wasn't able to sustain it for her entire career.

Link please, OP.

R23, Joni may cite Dylan as her only peer (and let's face it, as a songwriter he exceeds her by a big measure), but they were never close, right?

Dylan and Baez were lovers for a time, and appeared together on many occasions.

Late in her life, Laura Nyro toured as opener with Bob Dylan. Not that Joni would have been an opening act, but imagine what a great tour with alternating headliners that might have been.

Joni Mitchell's farts are more artistic, melodic and masterful than the best record Judy Collins will EVER make.

Hands down, end of story.

Sweet Judy Blue Eyes.

Maybe Joni wanted Stephen Stills cock all to herself.

I wouldn't listen to anything David Crosby says. Stills & Nash could make big money reuniting w/Crosby and doing appearances but they hate his guts.

Sometimes she farts when she's singing

[quote] Joni doesn't think ANY woman is as good as her

Also total bullshit.

Joni wasn't anti woman as much as she just detested that her work was usually only considered in that context. Dylan, Neil Young and others got respect for having a cock that Joni's music should have received years ago. The world has caught up, somewhat, but she is still too often relegated to "best female" whatever.

And Joni loved Laura Nyro, and Buffy St. Marie, to name two.

She was attacked by a lot of people who have an obvious debt to her - it's a long list but Rickie Lee Jones and Suzanne Vega, to name two - and she laughed it off, calling it the "Kill Mommy" syndrome - e.g., it's as tiresome for those singers to be compared to Joni as it is for Joni to be asked about them.

[quote]Late in her life, Laura Nyro toured as opener with Bob Dylan. Not that Joni would have been an opening act, but imagine what a great tour with alternating headliners that might have been.

The only time I saw Joni Mitchell in concert was when she opened for Dylan. It was either in the late 90s or early 00s.

The crowd was very drunk and filled with Dylan fans. She got heckled. And started insulting the audience. It was very awkward.

We left after her part because we can't stand the sound of Dylan's voice. I love Joni, but she got really boring after a while. Just her and a guitar and she sang every song the same way.

Graham Nash was stunningly beautiful as a young man. I think he may have been, if not THE great love of Joni's life, one of them.

But she was too busy "being free."

She REALLY hated being compared to Carly Simon.

I think a lot of that stems from Carly having the magic pussy that got James Taylor to marry her.

You would think Joni would have the grace and insight to know she dodged a bullet.

As the "Joni' Mitchell's Vagina Here" thread proved, Joni scored lots of great cock in her time.

Judy always made it seem like Joni kept calling Judy to ask her to sing "Both Sides Now". Whatever the case, Judy helped introduce the music of Leonard Cohen and Joni to the world.

Joni also loved Billie Holiday and Nina Simone.

And she toured with Dylan on the Rolling Thunder Revue in 1975-76.

Pretty ridiculous and wrong to say Dylan "exceeds her by a big measure" as a songwriter. As a lyricist, MAYBE -- but Joni at her height was capable of much more musically complex compositions than ever achieved by Dylan, who never really broke from the folk/blues template. Joni mastered that format, but by the mid-70s she was also incorporating elements of jazz, even classical (see the album "Hejira").

[quote]but Joni at her height was capable of much more musically complex composition

I'm a huge fan of Mitchell's talent, but the complexity of a composition has very little do with its value.

I think Joni wrote amazing lyrics, but was weaker than Carly Simon and Carole King when it came to writing a memorable melody.

Graham & Joni...

R39 As the OP of that thread it still makes me chuckle to see it sometimes.

She did enjoy some really great dick. James Taylor was quite something in his younger days.

I always thought Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins and Carole King were the same people.

That Cunt Joni Mitchell wrote ' woodstock' to cash in on a counterculture legend that she didn't even bother to attend. She passed in order to appear in the johnny carson show or whatever,thinking 'more dough' and cried when she saw the woodstock coverage on tv. Because of that greedy whore I had to call MY song ' lay down'. And still had a n#10. TAKE A YELLOW TAXI TO HELL CUNT.

Joni Mitchell has a horrible singing voice.

Joan Baez has a new album out today.

R46 It was Dick Cavett, you screechy whore!

Stick a candle up your wind, bitch

Joni was and is a cunt. More so than the legendary Julie. When she was younger, she placed the hippie waif [italic] artiste[/italic] card. Then she got OLD. Poor dear had that porcelain skin that cracks and shows every wrinkle. She looks like she's wearing a death mask now. She is a horrid terrible woman who drives away anyone who was every close to her. Judy was a drunk. A real serious drunk. Her son's suicide and some other events made her sober up. She may not write the high level doggerel that Joni did, but she still has a lovely voice and gives a good concert. Joni will be remembered for one or two songs, but not her performances.

TAKE A YELLOW TAXI TO HELL CUNT.

I love Joni (and Judy, Bob, Joan, Buffy, Laura and Odetta) but I would kill to have that T-Shirt.

I'll take that brand new key and SCRATCH YOUR FUCKING EYES OUT WITH IT, you copycat cooter.

Now SMELL MY FABULOUSNESS.

ps I'm pretty sure the tall dark haired DILF wanted to bone her.

And I have a brand new key R48. Are you typing from 1971?

No one on this earth is more humorless and self-important than Ms. Mitchell.

In the 80's, singer Irene Cara was at an awards show after-party and, seeing Joni Mitchell, who she idolized, she approached her and said she just wanted to tell her how wonderful she thought Mitchell was. Joni eyed her up and down and dismissively asked, "Aren't you the Flashdance girl?" She waved Cara away and turned her back on her. Total cunt.

[quote]Joni Mitchell has a horrible singing voice.

Joni's voice changed over the years.

I find her very shrill early recordings difficult to listen to. Her voice dropped and became really good around For the Roses. I think it was at its best on Heija, which is good because, musically that album sounds like just two songs.

With cigarette smoking, she hurt her voice eventually. But it was still more pleasant than the soprano years.

Look what they 've done to that song Hahahahahaha Roberta, I think you're half insane mama.. WAIT...hummm dudumm..HEY! That 's good !

[quote]No one on this earth is more humorless and self-important than Ms. Mitchell.

I think you have to have a sense of humor to write the lyric:

"I didn't know I'd drank such a lot -- until I pissed tequila anaconda the full length of the parking lot!"

I also thought she was funny in concert when she'd imitate the waitress in "Last Time I Saw Richard"

Melania was a novelty act.

Someday, I will get through her later version of Both Sides Now and not be a sobbing mess at the end.

Someday.

But not today.....

[quote]Is Beethoven less a genius because he's been dead for a couple of centuries? Joni's genius at her prime isn't diminished simply because she wasn't able to sustain it for her entire career.

Let's come back to DL in a couple of hundred years and compare the relative reputation of Beethoven and Joni. By that time Katy Perry and Britney Spears will have been dead 150 years or so so we can compare their reputations too.

[quote] wrong to say Dylan "exceeds her by a big measure" as a songwriter. As a lyricist, MAYBE -- but Joni at her height was capable of much more musically complex compositions than ever achieved by Dylan

Interesting and valid point, r41. He will be remembered as a "poet" (and won the Nobel Prize on that basis) but you're right ; her compositions musically probably surpass his, on balance.

I look just like her

I want to hear what Joni thinks of Taylor Swift!

Speaking of Irene Cara r57........

Who is Taylor Swift?

Joni, I will take any of your detractors out. And shout about it!

Just ask Carly

Prince idolized Joni Mitchell.

Joni was ruthless in her career - maybe she had to be. But in her personal life, she's been worse.

Joni's become a bitter old irrelevant woman by blaming everyone else for her perceived failures and just being so damned angry and nasty.

She has consistently bad-mouthed Carole King and Carly Simon in the press for years, saying that she should be compared to Dylan - not to other women singer-songwriters.

Then Joni had the nerve to say in an interview in recent years that her music will outlast Dylan's and in the future, her music will be considered like Chopin...Jesus Christ...delusional much, Joni

Carly has consistently been gracious about Joni in the press and called herself a fan of Joni's. For Christsakes, Carly even went to that concert of Joni's where Ricki Lee Jones was drunk and singing along so loud no one could hear. When Carly asked Ricki Lee not to sing so loud, Ricki Lee jokingly choked Carly (according to Carly's version of the incident on her website), and said to Carly, "Why aren't you up there singing too."

I want to age more like a Carly - a funny, smart, talented woman, comfortable in her own skin, open about her mistakes... And I don't want to do it the Joni has...Joni has literally driven everyone in her life away from her...

Joni looks like Mr Ed.

*Sorry it was Chrissie Hyndes who choked Carly Simon

Too funny. I just searched "Graham Nash" and came up with this article where he says

[quote] When Nixon resigned in August 1974, we were onstage at the Roosevelt Raceway in New York, in front of 60,000 people. We had a TV backstage.

‘[quote] Guess what, folks? He’s gone!’ we announced. We didn’t have to say who, everyone knew. Huge cheers erupted.

He's wrong. I was at that concert and it was in early September 1974. Nixon had already resigned.

I will never forget that concert because I almost got trampled on the race course when the Beach Boys went onstage.

Joni also believes there are multi colored strings growing out of her skin, neither animal, vegetable, or mineral, that defy scientific classification.

Can Joni even speak now?

I love both Chrissie and Carly. Watching Chrissie beat the shit out of Carly would have been surreal and traumatic for me.

I don't know but I'd lay odds that Joni is toxic to be around

A lot of celebrities have serious issues - but Joni's seem worse than most

And she probably still smokes whatever her publicist may say

When they suggested Swift for her biopic, she vetoed her, saying 'all you have is a girl with high cheek bones " bitch knows shade

Joni is a genius and great talent- but not a nice, content or generous woman- but boy is she interesting.

Judy Collins is a wonderful musician and pretty damn good song writer and singer too. She could not be a nicer woman either. I have met her and spent time with her casually on several occasions. She is a recovering alcoholic (decades sober), not anonymous- she wrote an incredible book about the loss of her son to substance abuse in which she addresses her own alcoholism. It is a very moving and wise book.

Both these women put just about every current female pop singer in the shade. Each are brilliant artists, Judy still working and her silvery voice as good as ever. Judy and her peers understand Joni perhaps better than Joni does herself and have the class to be generous and discrete. Joni really is a genius- her music and lyrics unsurpassed. That does not mean she is cozy and kind.

I know Carly Simon very casually. She is can be very neurotic (she'll be the first to say that), but also highly intelligent with a wicked sense of humor.

I asked why Joni hates her and she replied: "I have no idea. I've always said that I admire her. Isn't that what you're supposed to do with her?"

In the last year, I’ve read several bios of Joni plus “Laurel Canyon” thanks to DL! She is prime-A grade cunt, but I loooooove it. Joni personified the word “broad” in every single way. I think part of it is that she’s the standard narcissistic artiste, but also it is a defense mechanism. She was treated differently because she was a woman, and she resents the fuck out of that.

Another thing I admire about Joni is that this woman knows her stuff. She is constantly reading, traveling, learning, educating herself (though she’s now in poor health). She recognized how important it is to keep going. And I’m not talking about just music, she could likely teach Art History, she’s studied all the Old Masters, like Rembrandt. She considers herself a visual artist first. I’m an artist too. Some of her paintings I wasn’t in love with, but when I saw her portrait of Picasso (I do portraiture) I was blown away, she really REALLY can paint. That’s my favorite painting by Joni.

I’ll get the words wrong, but she said something like “I’m a classical artist trying to succeed in a pop market. Every artist has their cross to bear, and that’s my cross.” It’s so true.

Another interesting thing about Joni is that as she discovered jazz, she developed an emotional connection to black people. Her assistants are all black. She resonates with not just black culture, but the black struggle.

The story about her blowing off Woodstock is NOT true — Geffen MADE her miss it, he was ruthless and she obeyed him that time. Eventually she turned on him, partially because she resented him making her miss Woodstock.

More than anything, what I love about Joni is that she REFUSES to apologize. She doesn’t apologize for giving up her daughter, for her promiscuity, for making lots of money and living in Beverly Hills. Her attitude was, why shouldn’t I sing about my SoCal life? Is my life worth less than yours just because I have a fancy house and nice clothes? That’s where The Hissing of Summer Lawns came from. All her male peers were so busy trying to continue the hippy-dippy thing for their fans, but it was ALL fake — see CSNY, see the Eagles, etc. instead of trying to hide her success and pretend she was a non-materialistic hippy, Joni said, “this is who I am now.” She relished her lifestyle, and didn’t try to hide that (unlike her chickenshit make competitors such as Neil Young).

I read the interview where she closed down a fine dining establishment in BH for a reporter. The waiter kept bringing our wines for her pairings, but she rejected them all — she refused to be satisfied. The only part of her that might be “forced” is sometimes I think she would pull stunts like rejecting all the wines in order to narrate her own legend. But either way, I can’t help by admire her skill at carefully controlling the narrative about HERSELF.

I find Judy Collins style of singing very effected (although she has a lovely voice), but she is very funny and personable in concert.

She is can be what R81 ?

[quote]I know Carly Simon very casually. She is can be very neurotic (she'll be the first to say that), but also highly intelligent with a wicked sense of humor.

I always thrilled when a celebrity turns out to be the way you hope they would be - and so few are. Thanks for sharing that, R81. Carly is open about her insecurity and neurosis, but damn she's funny about it. Her book "Boys in the Trees" is a good read too.

I remember reading once that Ben Taylor said his mother wears her emotions almost like a plume outside her body. But she can laugh about it. And Carly's singing voice is all but gone too. But Carly's children show up and sing with her in personal appearances.

R84 Was that really worth it?

R85 Carly is very fun to talk with -- and a great gossip.

Her daughter, Sally, on the other hand, is rather unpleasant. I guess that's what comes from not getting any talent from either parent.

[QUOTE] Her assistants are all black

We call them ‘the help’ around here, dear.

[quote]She doesn’t apologize for giving up her daughter, for her promiscuity, for making lots of money and living in Beverly Hills. Her attitude was, why shouldn’t I sing about my SoCal life? Is my life worth less than yours just because I have a fancy house and nice clothes?

Jesus Christ! While Joni lives the good life in Beverly Hills she goes on and on about how she is as oppressed as African Americans and Indigenous People.

Joni was notorious for going around in Black Man drag - she even had a photo of it on one of her albums

R83, Think you meant "affected"....

OP and R1 are the same person, and it’s all made up by OP.

.....

R75, Joni believes she suffers from Morgellon's.

[quote]Her daughter, Sally, on the other hand, is rather unpleasant. I guess that's what comes from not getting any talent from either parent.

Yeah, R87, I've heard that about Sally and that Sally's husband is sort of a narcissist manipulator too.

Carly's life's not perfect but damn, you got to laugh and make the best of it. And I love that she's got that wicked sense of humor - part of why gay men love her and she writes so well.

Joni's not really a cunt, and she hasn't really bad-mouthed that many people in the press. About 15-20 years ago, she gave a few interviews where the press twisted her words around. She doesn't hate Carly Simon or Carole King. As someone mentioned upthread, she hates being "gendered." She's lumped in with Carole King, Carly Simon, etc., for no reason other than she's a woman, and she rejects that kind of categorization. The press turned that into "Joni's in a catfight with all these other female songwriters and recording artists!"

She has a number of nutty ideas and has completely lost her marbles with this Morgellons shit. Although I'll bet real money that she has no more symptoms now that she has a nurse living with her because she requires round-the-clock care.

Joni dresses in Black drag

Meanwhile Henry Louis Gates called Carly Simon "the blackest white woman" ever profiled on "Finding Your Roots"

Maybe she's just pissed that "Diamonds and Rust" is such a great damn song.

R95 = David Geffen

Trying to justify all the money he spent on her when she couldn't produce good music or hits

[quote]Joni's not really a cunt, and she hasn't really bad-mouthed that many people in the press.

A great example of "damning with faint praise"

She is fugly. Her songs are boring. The 'woodstock' thing is unforgivable. Her only positive contribution to pop culture is inspiring Phoebe Buffey

R99 thank you. I am on the fucking floor, lmao

I’ve got diarrhea.

R102 = Joni still complaining

She is adorable, talented and has great standards

[quote]She doesn't hate Carly Simon or Carole King. As someone mentioned upthread, she hates being "gendered." She's lumped in with Carole King, Carly Simon, etc., for no reason other than she's a woman, and she rejects that kind of categorization. The press turned that into "Joni's in a catfight with all these other female songwriters and recording artists!"

Her remarks were not as innocuous as you pretend. She didn't just say she resented being lumped with other women, she took the opportunity to say how much more talented she is than Carly Simon. And while that is the general consensus, I have always preferred Carly Simon.

Carly getting back at Joni:

[quote]“I was his new queen,” says Ms. Simon, the only one of the three who cooperated with Ms. Weller, about how James Taylor passed from Ms. Mitchell’s life into her own, and Ms. Mitchell “was Anne Boleyn on her way to the Tower.”

Damn, Joni

I though I was the ugliest old bitch in Rock Roll

I hated them both. They sang airy-fairy music.

I liked the arrangement of Joni's song "For Free" that Bette Midler did. Was the arrangement done by Barry Manilow? It would have been great if Bette just sang the song instead of trying to be Janis Joplin. But the arrangement is much better than Joni's hippy-dippy version.

Outstanding, R108, I've never seen or heard that

Bette makes that her song her own

Joni should have given her performance "For Free". It's as dull as dishwater.

I've read a bunch of interviews with Joni over the years, and thought she was a bitter, nasty, mean person. (I idolize her, by the way.) Not too long ago, though, i actually WATCHED an interview, and thought she was fabulous. She was sharp and funny and incredibly candid; a lot of what would have sounded mean if I had read it sounded humorous when listened to. So..maybe she is not the cunt we all think she is?

Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension skills, R111

After 10 billion cigarettes and 20 million gallons of whiskey, I finally think Joni found her niche. IMO, the deeper voice suited this song. And the arrangement is fantastic. It's not that cloying number we heard 40 years ago.

Have any of you seen John Kelly? He's a performance artist who does her songs.

I saw this a few years ago. Pulled it up and expected it to be camp or something like the SCTV parody of Joni.

Came away weeping. It is stunning.

R114: Yes I’ve seen John do his Joni show twice. Brilliant and stunning. He told us last time that he wasn’t going to do that show any longer.

Wow, R114, I was ready to ridicule

But better than any other drag performer I've ever seen

You should hear Nana Mouskari says about Joni Mitchell!

We can gossip all we want.

But her music is woven into my life, and she won't be with us for much longer. I will cry for her more than some members of my family.

What does Nana say?

I spit on the Canadian courtesan!

Hahahahahaha Nana NEVER said that

[quote]What does Nana say?

Αυτή η σκύλα τραγουδά σαν αγελάδα

R122 I'd rather sing like one than look like a cat's puckered asshole.

Joni was very touched by his performance when she saw him, r114. She had been expecting a camp parody as well.

Joni doesn't hate everyone. She has had kind words over the years for Laura Nyro, Chaka Khan, Janet Jackson, Prince, Tina Turner, Linda Ronstadt and Billie Holliday.

The stuff with Carly goes back to James Taylor. But according to the book "Girls Like Us", they went out for dinner once or twice in the late 90's (after the infamous Carly/Chrissie incident), and got on quite well. She also doesn't like being lumped in with other female singer songwriters and bemoans the lack of individuality.

She has made her feelings very clear for Dylan and Madonna, though.

I thought the headline was Joan Collins and couldn’t work out what La Collins had done to deserve it.

[quote]Joni Mitchell's farts are more artistic, melodic and masterful

Great idea!

I loved it when Carly threatened to beat the shit out of drunk Chrissie at the Joni concert.

R110, I still like Joni's version, though, as always, I could very easily do without the yodeling, which has ruined many a Joni Mitchell song.

I always strongly disliked Judy Collins's singing voice. She tends to go flat on the high notes.

[quote]Joni doesn't hate everyone.

Will the faint praise for Joni never end?

"Manson didn't have EVERYONE on Cielo Drive murdered!"

Joni really loved Krystal ,and couldn't stand the way Alexis was treating her, so she projected her resentment on Joan Collins. She also expressed in her song ' grey hair that look like a stage curtain' her admiration for Krystal 's hardo.

Judy Collins' version of "Both Sides Now" is much better. Mitchell was the most arrogant performer I'd ever seen---created a wall between her and the audience and it was obvious that she purposely didn't do the encores that the audience wanted. Her experiments with jazz were boring and I never really saw the genius in her lyrics. What her voice does do for me is conjure up a particular time, place, and mood. It'nice to have ghat once in awhile, but otherwise I'm not much of a fan.

Joan was always at her best when she was scolding

And appropriating other cultures - I went to a Hopi ceremony

She's the Edina Monsoon of singers.

She is the Lauren Bacall of songwriters

Joni is the Helen Lawson of the Singer-Songwriters

I don't know what you all are talking about!

Joni is as kind and beloved as...

as Lucille Ball

[quote]She is the Lauren Bacall of songwriters

There is a resemblance

I remember that interview Joni gave a year or so before her stroke where she said Native Americans/Indigenous People called tobacco a "grounding herb"

And she said she loved smoking

[quote] I loved it when Carly threatened to beat the shit out of drunk Chrissie at the Joni concert.

Carly was scared of Chrissie.

Chrissie was shaking her and pointing at Joni. "Look up there, bitch! That's a real fucking singer!"

I love all three but I actually think that Chrissie doing that was funny as hell.

The one you have to watch out for is Jennifer Warnes. She had a fit when she discovered her entire recording career in the dollar bin at Record Surplus.

[quote] Joan was always at her best when she was scolding

Much kinder than Patti LuPone.

This "fight" was in about 1995

Carly's 5'10" and Chrissie about 5'7" and heroin thin

She could've kicked Chrissie's obnoxious ass

Carly was NOT afraid of Chrissie. At one point she said to her. “If you don’t sit down, I’m gonna beat the shit out of you”.

But Carly is a scaredy cat who can barely say boo to a goose in public.

Chrissie could open a bottle top with her snatch

I love you, r145.

Who needs Judy when one has Matthews Southern Comfort and their (much preferred) cover of "Woodstock"? The one those of us who were kids at the time grew up with first.

R146 right back atcha

R107. Thanks for the fabulous photo of Gracie.

The Jefferson Airplane played on the Dick Cavett show the day after Woodstock. Joni and Dick introduced them. David Crosby played tambourine. So why wasn't Joni at Woodstock?

One of my favorite Grace songs.....

Joni has claimed that Geffen wouldn't let her go, because it was so important for her to be on the Cavett Show, but given Joni's nature, it's hard to imagine that he made the decision for her.

As Crosby, Stills, and Nash are describing what a monumental event Woodstock was - you can literally see the envy on Joni's face as they talk

I suppose a big TV show seemed more important to her at the time

At the time, Woodstock wasn't "WOODSTOCK!!!!!!!" It was originally just another rock festival like so many others across the country.

Let the record reflect that Joni (who I, too, adore), has in fact trashed DYLAN right and left, publically calling him a pathological liar and shameless plagiarist.

Collins sings off key always.

[quote]I find her very shrill early recordings difficult to listen to.

r58 = the "I find Joni Mitchell's very shrill early recordings difficult to listen to" troll.

None of them played Nettie Fowler.

How are any of these musicians still alive? And you DL posters? How are you breathing?

I'm not breathing r157.......

I agree, r118. And I had read somewhere that she was supposed to fly to Woodstock with Crosby, Stills and Nash, but that they didn’t wait and left without her....

I loved Joni as a boy but I'm sorry, at a certain point, 17 18, I just dropped her, suddenly finding zero pleasure. Conversely, Dylan I didn't like but I found myself liking him a lot after I turned 40.

I don't understand why Bob Dylan was such an icon. He was scuzzy looking, for starters. But everyone from that era WORSHIPPED him...!

R133 What is she on about??

what era, r161? he was relevant for about 2 decades

My favorite Joni Mitchell song (and cover)

SUITE Judy Blue Eyes

Love Joni but love Melanie more (and Melanie played Woodstock).

Christ. That was brilliant. Thank you for posting that R62. Immense talent.

R158 Brenda Vaccaro is that you?

[quote]I love all three but I actually think that Chrissie doing that was funny as hell.

I think what she did is the very definition of an obnoxious, alcoholic cunt. Just trash.

Carly was embarrassed to be associated with such low-class behavior, which is why she laughs it off.

But Chrissie is a garbage person.

[quote] As Crosby, Stills, and Nash are describing what a monumental event Woodstock was - you can literally see the envy on Joni's face as they talk

No one expected it to be that. As someone noted upthread. It was just supposed to be another concert. I was in Tarrytown staying at my grandparents' and my cousins and I and some friends were going to drive up late Friday night or may e it was Saturday morning but the thruway got shut down so we didn't go. I was relieved as I wasn't crazy about camping out and had no idea how I'd go to the bathroom or get my contacts in and out in a fucking makeshift campground. Seriously I had my priorities. LOL!

Suck on my harpsichord Joni!

Yes r168 wheeeeeze I'm fine. I send my wheeeeeeeeeeze love.

Speaking of Imelda Staunton, she was in that Woodstock themed movie.

For Janbot and Joni.

I have heard it all now R125, what did Joni Mitchell have to say good about Janet Jackson? I’ve always liked her but I can’t imagine Ms. Mitchell going in for dulcet whisper-coos of JJ.

This thread makes my ass tired.

[quote]This thread makes my ass tired. —Aretha Franklin

No, Miss Thang. What makes your ass tired is that fat belly pushing down on your ass. If you'd left off the fried chicken, your ass wouldn't hurt so much and you wouldn't have to shop for dresses at Tent World.

Sorry, but that John Kelly thing was awful. He sounded like a really bad Joni impersonator and brought nothing of himself to the song. I think the only reason Joni liked it is because it was a man and Joni has always thought of herself as a man.

Did she record that before or after she was on Dynasty?

What would be ESPECIALLY delicious would be if Joni next trashes Alanis Morissette.

[R46] Joni WANTED to go to Woodstock! Her manager wouldn't hear of it because he or she was afraid Joni would miss the Dick Cavett broadcast [I don't know what time of day those evening shows taped - but it was well before the 2330 air time]. Also, Joni's idealilzed version of Woodstock... my neighbours left for Woodstock Friday at lunchtime and were back early the next day. They said it was awful. No facilities, everybody was out of their minds.

This is the ULTIMATE Saturday morning bitch session.

I agree with R178.

Also, I'm listening to the Tori Amos cover and think it's quite good, but it bothers me when people covering songs get the lyrics wrong. "My blood, my holy wine/Tastes so bitter and so sweet"? Ew. It's "You're in my blood like holy wine/You taste so bitter and so sweet." Completely different meaning!

I love that David Geffen has become the counter-culture Gary Morton

It's Judy's Turn To Cry

"Both Sides Now" has to be one of the most-covered (non-Beatles) songs of the rock era. I got to know it from the Neil Diamond version on an 8-Track of his hits that my parents played the hell out of on road trips in the late 1970s.

It is a gorgeous and simple song, at first listen. And yet the later recording Joni made of it, maybe around 1999 or 2000, is devastatingly beautiful. The sadness/ sad hopefulness balance in the work becomes so much clearer.

R186 That was the problem with Joni singing the song when she was in her twenties: It should be sung by someone nearer the end of their life.

I agree, r187. And yet Joni wrote it when she was young, at the height of her writing talent, possibly channeling an older woman?

As an example of the covers I was talking about, DL fave and Hollywood icon Doris Day recorded a lovely version (1970-ish, maybe) where she employed a background choir and left out the entire "I've looked at Love" verse, which is the heart of the song.

Why cut that verse on, of all things, "The Love Album"? Too on the nose?

Doris is a cunt.

Match me, David.

WOW, R188. Doris Day has a very pretty voice, but she makes Barbra sound un-affected with her enunciation.

Speaking of . . . this is a live version of a cover of the Joni song Barbra did at a fundraiser.

The sound isn't great, but I like how it's just piano and bass, a novel simplicity for Barbra, who tends to over do everything.

The CD version is more polished, but I like this one better.

[quote]Doris Day has a very pretty voice

She started her career as a "lady who sang with the band."

Wow, in R133 Joni is ahead of her time -- the ultimate snowflake avant la lettre!

No amount of adulation from anyone will ever be enough for this thirsty and angry woman.

interesting to see how many times Mitchell has berated her audience. I remember as a kid watching the Amnesty International Concert on MTV and when Joni came out to a very rambunctious audience and sat down quietly with her guitar, they did not pay her the proper respect she felt she was owed and she bitched at them which only caused more ruckus and they started throwing things at the stage.

Sounds like the insufferable Blossom Dearie.

Few are even fit enough to lick her boots

I love Doris but her phrasing clearly shows she didn't get or understand the song.

But not Blossom Seeley, r195.........

R113, for some reason, her voice reminds me of Marianne Faithful there.

R180, I believe she has trashed Alanis along with the Joan Osbourne ("What if God was One of Us") and obviously Madonna.

Lucy wanted to go to Woodstockj. She was going to do an album of Joni Mitchell covers. But Gary, thank God, talked her out of it.

[quote] and left out the entire "I've looked at Love" verse, which is the heart of the song.

She was going to sing that verse, but Marty talked her out of it.

[italic]I've looked at muff from both sides now

From up and dow, and still somehow

It's muff illussions I recall

I really don't know muff at all..."[/italic]

Renee Flemming sounds kind of...black??

oh dear....now I feel stupid : ( I didn't know PRINCE covered our Joni!

(His voice sounds cutting-glass shrill, though)

[quote] I believe she has trashed Alanis

"I'm a musical explorer and not just a pop songwriter," she huffed. "Alanis Morissette writes words, someone else helps set it to music, and then she's kind of stylized into the part."

Hmm.

I also remember Joni poking fun with a joke saying something along the lines of "As my fellow countrywoman Alanis Morrissette would say, ironic, don't you think?"

But they ask her for an honest answer about all these folks she influenced and she gave it to them. And she's right most of the time.

[quote] PRINCE covered our Joni!

He's loved her for years. She's mentioned in The Ballad of Dorothy Parker.

Most Joni covers are by the book and that tribute was a mixed bag but I LOVED what Sufjan Stevens did with Free Man in Paris.

R206 OMG, that opening sounded like something from "The Love Boat."

THIS is the best version - -

So much depth, with her looking back at an old composition. And the orchestration is beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all that shit before

Joni sounds as if she's gasping for air with that tired old gravely voice

Let me show you how to belt one out while you hold your lighted Camel between your fingers

I always thought she looked like a God damn alien.

r206, James Taylors cover of “River” from that same tribute album is really good...

I'll second what R80 says about Judy. She can be hard to get to know, but when you crack the code, she's charming. A great gossip and very funny. She's got a few more books in the works, including a food related one. Her husband had something to do with the design of the WW II memorial in DC, architect perhaps?

I hate "River."

I like Blue

I admit...I actually prefer the Collins version of "Both Sides Now" to Joni's original on Clouds (but not to the version she did in 2000, which is indeed superior).

I also prefer the Collins version. Probably because I heard it first. (I think it was in the first episode of the Wonder Years.). Judy's voice is so beautiful, and I love those chiming bells.

[quote] She has consistently bad-mouthed Carole King and Carly Simon in the press for years, saying that she should be compared to Dylan - not to other women singer-songwriters.

Joni acknowledges Laura Nyro as her only female peer. She was as enchanted by (or envious of) Nyro's charismatic stage presence as everyone else.

Kiss my ass, Joni.

[quote] I have heard it all now [R125], what did Joni Mitchell have to say good about Janet Jackson? I’ve always liked her but I can’t imagine Ms. Mitchell going in for dulcet whisper-coos of JJ.

Joni LOVED Janet' "Got To It's Gone" from @1997. The song title is a lyric from "Big Yellow Taxi" and it featured a vocal sample of Joni singing that track. Also, rapper Q-Tip added the line "Joni Mitchell never lies..." to his cameo on the track. Joni said she love everything about the song and was gratified that she had influenced a blackUrban hit.

Jazz goddess Dianne Reeves is a fantastic interpreter of Joni Mitchell. This is my favorite version of "Both Sides Now."

Dianne Reeves "River"

What is Dame Joni's relationship with her daughter, now...the spawn she dropped and then dumped into the adoption pool? I think they had an amicable reunion, but then it went sour on a long visit (?)

I hope she gave the poor girl a healthy trust fund. She has more money than she'll ever, [italic]ever[/italic] need, and she did bring the unfortunate brat into the world.

Young Joni Mitchell looks surprisingly like Patsy Stone?

[quote] Mitchell remembers giving birth in a Toronto hospital, where "one of the barbaric things they did was they bound the breasts of unwed mothers to keep the milk from coming," she says.

Okay, Joan, dear....TMI.

I made it through 57 seconds of that Sufjan Stevens cover before bolting. Between the terrible arrangement, and the fact that he really can't sing, it was painful.

The Dianne Reeves covers, OTOH, were lovely and sublime.

I like Sufjan, but yeah, I don't really care for that cover either. That whole tribute album was pretty underwhelming, imo. The one Herbie Hancock did (with Tina Turner, et al) was much better.

Collins' husband, Louis Nelson, designed the Korean War Memorial, R212.

Now, how's this for a daisy-chain:

Mitchell gave that invitation-only concert in New York, the one attended by Simon and Hynde. Simon asked the nearly-out-of-control Hynde to pipe down a bit, and Hynde went all apeshit on her.

Fast-forward several years, and Collins arranges her very own "tribute" album. Friends and admirers, including Joan Baez, Dolly Parton, Bernadette Peters and Leonard Cohen - the latter of whom was championed and introduced to the world by Collins - respond by participating in the tribute.

As did another woman, who said she wished she had written the Collins song, "My Father." That would be Hynde.

Oh, and in spite of having been given the break of a lifetime by Collins, guess who didn't return the compliment, and was conspicuously absent from the Collins tribute? That would be the twat who composed "Both Sides, Now."

Judy did the best version of "Both Sides, Now"--it's better than any of Joni's versions--but her other Joni Mitchell covers aren't nearly as good. Am a huge Joni fan, as well, and agree--Judy has written some gorgeous songs.

R217 She's never badmouthed Carole King. They were friendly if not friends. Carly there may have been animosity between them over James.

Judy Collins is unbearable. I hate every single fucking thing about her and her voice. That anyone could be "Team Collins" is a mystery to me.

I like Judy's "Both Sides Now" better, too, but once I heard Joni's version, Judy's arrangement always seemed out of tune with the true meaning of the song. Too optimistic, too happy. Not enough "other side."

I thank Judy Collins for introducing me to Joni -- I had not heard of her until Judy's version of Both Sides Now came out -- but I never quite cared for her. I thought she always sang a bit flat, and that she used songs to showcase her voice, rather than use her voice to showcase a song. You just know that Judy wanted the reaction to each song she recorded to be "what a gorgeous voice she has!" and not "what a great song that is." I prefer singers who aim for the latter.

Yeah, I think Judy has a lovely voice but she's unremarkable as a singer or interpreter. Joni has a mediocre sometimes unpleasant voice but she is an interpreter who illuminates the lyric. I love Joni's music though, have all her albums and don't know how I could live without them.

[quote]R233 she's unremarkable as a singer

Her voice is just kind of wail-y and unsupported, to me. There are certain songs of hers I liked her melodramatic stuff when I was younger (like ALBATROSS), but hearing them again, I'm not a huge fan of her actual sound. (I'm a little indifferent to a lot of Joan Baez's reedy singing, as well. Basically, her upper register).

I do respect that Collins has at least taken good [italic]care[/italic] of her voice as she's aged. I've heard her speak quite technically about that. It's all she's got and she knows it.

I've never studied voice or anything. Some obviously disagree with me...like this opera fan who's WOWED by her:

[quote] How best to describe the voice and singing style of Judy Collins? With respect to the voice itself, one might say it is nearly vibrato-less, silvery, and equalized in all its registers. There is no forcing of tone yet it can at all times be easily and clearly heard without any interfering fuzz. Further, the diction is impeccable and the singing is artistic in that it avoids cheap effects and reveals the musicality as well as musicianship of the singer. ....In the late 1960's, she was led to her one and only voice teacher, Max Margulies, to whom she admits to owing her vocal prowess and longevity. It was Margulies who shaped her voice from one of a rough (but still beautiful) alto to that of a shimmering soprano with a nearly three-octave range. She worked tirelessly with Margulies on equalizing her registers from top to bottom, on that elusive element of all great singers called phrasing, and on what Margulies spoke of as "clarity." It was the same method he instilled in the classical singers he taught and coached.

I like Joni's approach to her material and her tones and pitch are quite beautiful but I HATE the way she leans on certain vowels for no reason at all. "A boutique and a swinging h-ahht sp-ahhhhh-t. "I was raised on rob-burrrrrr-eeee."

[quote]Joni also believes there are multi colored strings growing out of her skin, neither animal, vegetable, or mineral, that defy scientific classification.

This is Morgellon's disease, right? Is it delusion?

I like that Mitchell has such a deeply personal sound....her tempos, and ever her notes, are all her own. She's a bit weird...but in a soothing way.

I mean, who else is going to do a lyrical, pretty profound callout to Amelia Earhart, of all people??

about 5 years ago Joni was found collapsed on the floor, dehydrated, barely breathing. She went to the hospital and had to learn to speak again. I believe she's at home again but requires a wheelchair to go outside the house. She requires round the clock assistance to live I believe.

That's the thing about Joni...she borrows from rock, folk, jazz, classical, but it always just sounds like her. It's a complete sound-world of its own. That's probably why someone like Prince liked her so much. He sorta did the same thing.

Thanks for checking in, Joni at R230.

Bitch had a big assed stroke.

Why the fuck does EVERYTHING around here HAVE to be a goddam competition???!!!

R238 It was three years ago. Are you unable to use Google to ensure you aren't completely talking out of your ass?

*inhales*

*puts Camel out in R240's eye*

Therapy's fine, bitch. What's good?

[quote]I love Joni's music though, have all her albums and don't know how I could live without them.

Peter, Paul and MARY!

Joni and MARY!, r246.....

I love that clip, R247.

Morgellon's is some delusional psychological bullshit spread by the internet to stupid fraus

Was Joni molested? There have been many threads that debated if Carly was molested. Seems strange Joni's hasn't been discussed here.

I don't think so, R250.

Though she did write about her friend confiding in her about being molested (in "Cherokee Louise").

I think Joni's work has been so confessional we would have known about it.

[quote]There have been many threads that debated if Carly was molested.

As she wrote rather romantically about it in her memoir, it really shouldn't be debated.

[quote] I think Joni's work has been so confessional we would have known about it.

Ridiculous. Does anyone believe Joni was not molested in the 60s/70s? The interesting question is why Joni did not write about it.

The only thing that's ridiculous is an assumption out of thin air that she has.

I believe she was not

To answer a question from upstream: I don't much care for Carly Simon's music, but still read her memoir, in which she talks about being sexually taken advantage of at a very young age. I'm not sure she would classify it at being molested, but it certainly was inappropriate.

I stand with those who have come forward about Joni's abuse on DL....

#DLtoo

[quote] She requires round the clock assistance to live I believe.

So what else is new - that has always been the case with Joni

I don't know exactly why Joni hates Carly so much

I can't quite put my finger on it

Mmmm, Carly got the best of that

Joni sand backup on a Carole King record.

Carole King sand backup on a Carly Simon record.

Carole King and Joni Mitchell sang backup on James Taylor records.

James Taylor sang backup on Carole King, Joni Mitchell, and Carly Simon records.

But Joni and Carly NEVER sang backup on each other's records. Ever.

I wonder is Joni is still smoking.

Joni hasn't been seen in public in an entire year.

Mitchell said: "I always thought the women of song don't get along, and I don't know why that is. I had a hard time with Laura Nyro also, and Joan Baez would have broken my leg if she could, or at least that's the way it felt as a person coming out [on to the music scene]. I never felt that same sense of competition from men." She added: "[Joplin] was very competitive with me, very insecure. She was the queen of rock'*'roll one year and then Rolling Stone made me the queen of rock'n'roll and she hated me after that."

Joni also called Grace Slick a "drunken whore." Of course Grace would probably be the first to agree with her.

Are Geffen and Joni Mitchell still in touch? Did Geffen send a get well card and a bouquet of flowers?

[quote] Are Geffen and Joni Mitchell still in touch? Did Geffen send a get well card and a bouquet of flowers?

No, I think they fell out after she was on his label for her 80s work.

Also, Miss Geffen would have to have an actual emotional feeling for that. The only "feeling" he has is when the dick of a 18 year old jock is thrown, like a hot dog down a hallway, into his enormous butt tunnel, and once in a while pokes the sides of the expressway inside him.......

Joni Mitchell can suck Judy Collins' dick.

David Geffen was quoted asking inre Joni "Who wants a fifty year old folk singer?" Which is something Joni would never forget. Also. as much as Joni and Judy (and Carole and Carly, and Laura and Mary and Joanie Phonie) all may have hated each other, they were ALL united in their jealousy of Michelle Phillips. Trust me- I was there.

R269, are you the one who hates Linda Ronstadt? Because you were there?

Joni was just at Geffens’ 90 somethingth birthday party...

R271 -- Joni was actually recently at Elton John's birthday party. I don't think she was at a Geffen party. You all do know that Free Man in Paris is about Geffen, non?

R268 Joni is too much of a lady for that, to get anywhere near that shrieking cunt.

I love Linda Ronstadt!

[quote]they were ALL united in their jealousy of Michelle Phillips. Trust me- I was there.

Well, I believe you whether or not you were there.

Michelle didn't have the best voice, and was not a songwriter of note (though "California Dreaming" credit and royalties made her a wealthy woman), but she was the prettiest, was all over magazines as the image of the Summer of Love, helped launch the Monterey Pop festival which was the inspiration for Woodstock, and became a C-list actress and keeper of the Mamas and Papas flame to this day.

Plus she played bitch Paige's bitch mother Anne on several seasons of DL fave Knots Landing!

I expect even recording artist Michele "One L" Lee was a little jealous.

Ladies don't want to rip their stockings in some jukebox dive.

Most of Michelle Phillips' endeavors failed. I doubt any of them would be jealous of her.

Photo of Joni from February

R272, I think she attended both. The Elton John one was a short while back, and the Geffen one was maybe last weekend.

The "Joni Mitchell's Vagina Here!" had some truly golden contributions.

[quote] You might think, "Well, if her vagina could talk…" Well, mine CAN! And for a lot of the 60s and 70s, it said, "Sorry, occupied."

[quote] Bonjour Joni, did I leave my typewriter in there? Signed, Free Man in Paris

[quote] She added: "[Joplin] was very competitive with me, very insecure. She was the queen of rock'*'roll one year and then Rolling Stone made me the queen of rock'n'roll and she hated me after that."

In what universe is Joni Fucking Mitchell the Queen of Rock 'n' Roll? That's hilarious.

R281 I think Joni would agree with you.

Rolling Stone had this really weird love/hate relationship with Joni. They built her up for a few years and then, with the release of Hissing Of Summer Lawns, they led the charge to tear her down and basically insinuated she was a whore.

Hissing, of course, ended up being one of her best albums, but was so different at the time it got a very mixed reception.

I really liked Hissing. It wasn't as great as Court and Spark, but it was pretty wonderful.

I thought Hejira was beautiful lyrically, but musically repetitive.

Don Juan was full of filler. The title song was Coyote with new lyrics. She was starting to lose me.

Mingus was horrible. Well intended, but really bad (except Dry Cleaner).

But I liked Wild Things.

And I loved Dog Eat Dog (but not the cheesy 80s synthesizers).

Everything after that has been hit or, mostly, miss.

I think the animosity with RS started when they dubbed Joni "Old Lady of the Year" and even included a chart of her lovers. She was also pissed when her original label (Reprise) took out an ad declaring "Joni Mitchell Is 90% Virgin."

R274

BOW DOWN, bitches!

Ronstadt is shrill and unoriginal. The most overrated voice of the 70s.

Damn James Taylor was a hot piece of ass.

R283, you didn’t like “The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey” from Mingus? I found the use of howling wolves as backup vocals to be brilliant and haunting.

[quote]R286 Ronstadt is shrill and unoriginal. The most overrated voice of the 70s.

I...I just don't know what to say! I am flumoxed. What am I HEARING??

Rondstadt is the [italic]voice of her generation, [/italic]technically speaking.

And my god, who else showed Rondstadt's sheer range? Rock, pop, country, big band swing, [italic]Canción,[/italic] Gilbert & Sullivan...she even sang Mimi in LA BOHEME.

Her autobiography is very interesting, in part because she goes into a great deal of detail about singing and vocal technique.

2) It's no secret that Joni had a long-standing rivalry with Joan Baez, who during the 1960s had been Bob Dylan's lover. Joni and Joan were joined together on Dylan's 57-concert Rolling Thunder Revue during 1975 and 1976. What it mainly accomplished, Yaffe says, was that it made worse instead of better the long-standing rivalry between Joan and Joni.

3) At one point, Baez and Judy Collins tried to conscript Joni, Yaffe says, to join a band that they would call The Three J's. She refused. "She didn't particularly like them anyway," Yaffe says, "and because she had royalties as a songwriter, she, unlike them, didn't need the money."

5) In 1973, Joni was sharing a rented home with David Geffen and Cher at a time when Joni had a ritual of meeting Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty at a Hollywood restaurant. Beatty, Yaffe says, "was upset that he was having so much trouble getting Joni to go to bed with him." Because of her repeated rejections, Yaffe says, Beatty recommended that Joni seek counsel from his psychotherapist, because, obviously, there had to be something wrong with her.

Linda Ronstadt sounds like an injured cow when she sings.

Only a handful of her pop songs, and a bit of her Riddle album, are tolerable.

She sang too often in her high range, which was not comfortable to hear.

I cannot believe I am reading what I am reading in r292. There is no singer I have liked more than Linda Ronstadt since I heard her again in 1976, i.e., post-"Different Drum." Except for her rockingest tunes, I consider her voice extremely "comfortable to hear." I believe you believe what you say, r292, but I am shaking my head nonetheless at the realization that a gay man I imagine is old enough to have heard her music as it came out has such a low opinion of it.

Thankfully, you are someone on an anonymous online forum, and not someone I have to listen to music with, as I have now switched to the 1.4 days of her music I have in iTunes, which I shall listen to for the rest of the day on shuffle. Because she is my very favorite singer.

R293 You are certainly welcome to clutch your pearls and broadcast your own opinion re: Ronstadt all you want. As a musician and a music fan, I do not care for the upper ranges of Ronstadt's voice. I do not need, nor seek, your approval for such an opinion.

I am indeed old enough that her music was been a constant radio presence, but aside from a few songs where her lower range was highlighted, I simply do not care for her voice. It becomes very brittle in the high ranges. I'm sure she would have been fine as an opera singer or in similar classical styles, but rock stylings do not mesh well with those high notes, as there is no real place to sustain them as one would in a more classical style.

You are most welcome to listen to her all day, but please, do keep the volume down. I don't want to hear the cow shrieking and screeching histrionics.

Many thanks for this most engaging dialogue. Toodles.

[quote]Beatty, Yaffe says, "was upset that he was having so much trouble getting Joni to go to bed with him." Because of her repeated rejections, Yaffe says, Beatty recommended that Joni seek counsel from his psychotherapist, because, obviously, there had to be something wrong with her.

Apparently, he succeeded, as "Same Situation" is written about her contemplating why she is fucking him.

So that is another man both Carly Simon and Joni have both fucked, at different times. Carly said that Warren passed on to Jack, making her feel like a "piece of meat."

I am devastated, Ronstadt-hating R294. You are also the poster who started the "Andy Dixon's Tousled Hair" thread, which you dedicated to the DeFreitas troll.

I am the DeFreitas troll (aka r293).

I must repair to the cognitive dissonance tent.

Fans are so tedious.

And people who spend time cross-referencing who starts threads are scary.

Some assertions are so egregious, they require all the knowledge we are able to summon.

When it comes to musical tastes, "She's great!/"She's shit!" arguments are such a waste of time.

Neither side listens to other. The fan's devotion is too cultlike. And the detractor knows he's got a fan's goat.

Neither side is typing to be convinced by the other. It just wastes everyone else's time by clogging up threads.

Same with politics, babe....

R300 Exactly.

Same with "Who's your favorite Upper East Sider?" now assigned to the History file

Funny how Linda Ronstadt isn't really on the radar of younger generations like others from the 70s are. Stevie Nicks, Ann Wilson, Joni and a few others are well-known to people under 40 but they don't really know Linda. She's half-forgotten.

Can we please get back to Joni?

He's so vain, r291.

[quote] Stevie Nicks, Ann Wilson, Joni and a few others are well-known to people under 40

Says someone who knows nobody under 40.

Years ago I read an article where she commented on her peers. She said Bonnie R. was a good ol' girl. She admired Joni because she took chances. Linda had the best white pipes in the business.

^ Carly, that is.

^ Sorry if still confusing. Carly was commenting on her peers.

We got it, R309 R308 R307. Thanks, sweetie.

r306 I'm 38 and many people in my age group know those three women. Linda, not so much. I'm only aware of her because my mom used to play her music when I was a kid.

Bonnie Raitt is sooo much more than just a good ol’ girl...love her.

I'm not a huge Bonnie Raitt fan, but "I Can't Make You Love Me" is a fucking incredible song. We've all lived those lyrics at some time in our lives.

Joni and I have something in common. It's going to make the rest of you bitches jealous, so don't hate me just because I sucked off David Blue while he was on heroin back in the 1980's. You know, David Blue? He is The Blue of Blue and I blew him too. I felt so let down by Jonie after I committed this sordid act.

Well, R311 if you have no anecdotal evidence than it must absolutely be a universal truth. That's exactly how that works.

[quote]Stevie Nicks, Ann Wilson, Joni and a few others are well-known to people under 40 but they don't really know Linda. She's half-forgotten.

Linda hasn't shown much interest in keeping her legacy alive. She pretty much trashed all her classic 70s albums and said she only really started to enjoy singing when she did Pirates of Penzance and the Nelson Riddle albums. And if kids want to know about standards, they can just go right to Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra and hear them sung better.

R296 Now I feel a bit guilty for going all Lucinda Walsh on you.

But I still think Ms. Ronstadt sounds like a cow being poked with a stick at times.

I prefer Karla Bonoff's version of Someone to Lay Down Beside Me, for example, over Linda's, though I know Linda has a long history of interpreting Karla's songs.

r316 - I'd love to hear a duet of Ella scatting and Frankie doo-bee-dooing Desperado.......

And R296, I do like SOME of her work. I have "Heart Like A Wheel" which to me is the one album where she didn't stay in the shrieky high end.

This is one of my favorites.

If Ronstadt were able to sing or at least stay in the public eye as a performer, she'd be remembered. When you're out of singing for over 15 years, that's a generation of people who've never heard of you.

By the way, for the Ronstadt Troll (Yes! You are now the DeFrietas and the Ronstadt Troll....lovingly) and for others....

If you do not know this streaming station I wholeheartedly recommend it. It plays some of an artists' hits but also many of their more general album tracks.

Linda, Joni, Carole, Carly et al are all there, but lots of other people I didn't know about before discovering this a few years ago...learned about Karla Bonoff, Andrew Gold, Terence Boylan, and many other good musicians making great music who for one reason or another didn't land in the spotlight in the same way.

Exactly, r316. Linda never kept herself out there like some of her contemporaries, which is why she's not really known to younger generations.

[quote]As a musician and a music fan, I do not care for the upper ranges of Ronstadt's voice. I do not need, nor seek, your approval for such an opinion.

R293 has stated her boundaries.

LOVE Bonnie Raitt- great slide guitar player, songwriter, singer- she's one of the most under rated of all these chics.

Always wanted to like Bonnie Raitt, seemed like a cool lady. But I found her voice brittle. Nice version of "You Got It" but it starts and stops there for me.

Give me Ronstadt and her growl any day. Plus she was gorgeous to boot.

A lot of Joni covers sort of fall flat compared to the originals, but I think Bonnie did a good one

Sing Out Louise

R327 is the Joni I loved, from there all the way up to "Court and Spark". The jazzy stuff leaves me cold. And I don't like the mature voice in her case either.

But mostly I think she just lost her melody along the way. Happens to a lot of them.

If Michelle Phillips was around, you can bet all the guys would be watching her. NOT Joni, Judy etc etc etc

I love the comment about Joni on this YouTube thread:

"Quite simply she's a genius - brittle, passionate, wildly talented, faintly crazy and truly avant-garde."

R329, Michelle is still around. She lives in my neighborhood and she's also put on about 75 pounds. That's why she stays out of sight and rightfully so.

Thing is, Michelle mostly coasted on her charm and looks. She was able to represent a certain 60s California ideal for a short time, but as soon as her group imploded, it was pretty much over for her.

That's very gracious of you, R317 R319 R321. I accept your apology and your kind felicitations. I knew someone who appreciated the real Andy Dixon couldn't be that bad a guy. And thank you for the radio station. I'm listening to it now.

Oddly, of Linda's big 1970s four (Heart like a Wheel, Prisoner in Disguise, Hasten down the Wind, Simple Dreams), Heart like a Wheel is the one I like least, partly because of the way each of those songs accompanied my first breakup with another gay man (who happened to be the one who turned me on to Linda with "Long Long Time" and her version of "Will You Love Me Tomorrow"). My life was perfect, or so I thought, until the guy I was seeing dumped me for someone I had brought into our set of friends. It broke my heart and Heart, Prisoner, and Hasten were the albums of my fall from grace.

I had no idea it was coming—I'd been nothing but Willing—and suddenly, there I was, on The Dark End of the Street, pining over Faithless Love. It would be a while before It Didn't Matter Anymore, but it was surely the case that He Was No Good. Harm was done, no love could be won, my Heart was just like a Wheel.

Only on Datalounge do you find people who even know who the fuck Ann Wilson is.

Now, Stevie Nicks is more famous, but she's not popular with many people under 40.

Smell me, bitches.

Because no one - and I do mean NO ONE - does it better!

R333 I do hope you enjoy the station. It sounds like we like different parts of Linda's style.

I get that with my Joni love all the time. Some people really like early Joni. I love all of it on some level as a Joni-stan and a completionist, but I tend to appreciate both Hissing of Summer Lawns and Hejira the most, and those are the ones where many earlier Joni fans said, "Uh, no."

I liked Joni's first album a lot. The night of my going-away-to-college sleepover, my friends and I played it endlessly, and in the morning I was headed for Life in the City. It's always been one of my favorites. However, since I was a '70s college student, I constantly heard the rest of her albums in dorm rooms, and didn't buy any more until C&S, which I thought was just a perfect album, and then Hissing of Summer Lawns, which I found so exotic and musical and un-folky. It really woke me up the first time I heard it to what a wonderful musician Joni is.

I didn't get really into her, however, until the late '90s, when I bought a fancy-schmancy turntable and stereo, and some of her records were among my favorite things to listen to. Now she remains a favorite. I try not to think too much of what an obnoxious human being she is, and just love the music.

This year, I'm listening mostly to 20th century classical, John Coltrane, and pop music on shuffle. But just as I do with Linda, Carly, and Laura Nyro, some days I listen exclusively to Joni.

Oh, and a big "Pussycat" to you, a la La Walsh.

Ann Wilson is amazing, regardless of who knows her or doesn't know her. I don't particularly think "ooh, people under 30 know/don't know someone's name" as a key endorsement.

I love their early stuff, but I have been in awe of their Kennedy Center Honors performance since it aired. It wrecked me, gurl.

This and the Aretha for Carole King performances are the two truly life changing KCH performances of the last several years. Ann nails EVERY fucking note of this song, and when she hits the high wail at the end, it's even better than a figure skater landing a quad.

AND that bitch was SIXTY FUCKING TWO when she did it. Smell her, indeed.

Damn, I watched Ann and then Aretha back to back.

A crying mess.

Speaking of crying messes, this one is Carly's.

The USPS commercial after 9/11.

"Ever."

*sob!*

R227 thanks for the correction about Judy's husband. I should have remembered - we discussed it at length a few years ago.

no regrets, coyote

I'm glad to hear that Joanie opened for Dylan decades ago. I hope she was treated better than Laura Nyro was when I saw her open for Dylan at an outdoor venue around 1988 or 89. The partly drunk and stoned crowd, who had been tailgating for hours prior to gates opening, pretty much ignored her, wouldn't quiet down, and when she left the stage, after like 20 minutes, she was obviously miserable and just thanked Bob for inviting her.

She may have been crying. I was.

She didn't live too long after that; she may have already been sick.

Women hate one another, part one million.

[quote]It's no secret that Joni had a long-standing rivalry with Joan Baez, who during the 1960s had been Bob Dylan's lover.

I thought Dylan's lover was Suze Rotolo who wrote the book and is on the cover of his album walking in the snow.

Yes, Baez and Dylan were lovers in the 60s. She wrote "Diamonds and Rust" about him. She was actually famous before he was, and arguably launched his career.

Wasn't "Just Like a Woman" partially based on Baez, or maybe completely.

Baez has announced farewell tours this year.

I always thought 'Just Like a Woman' was based on Edie Sedgewick

For my friend above who likes Karla Bonoff. This came through on a Linda Ronstadt Google Alert last night.

And yes, I would get Andy Dixon Google Alerts if there still were Andy Dixon (and Lucinda Walsh, too, darling).

"Linda Ronstadt Google Alert" is one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

R351 Thank you!

I am the person who mentioned the Left Coast 70s station and that's where I learned about her music. Saw her in concert in 2016 - she's 65 and it was STUNNING. Her voice sounds almost EXACTLY like it does on her 70s records.

PS I love Linda Ronstadt Google Alert. I would totally name my band that!

[quote]353 "Linda Ronstadt Google Alert" is one of the saddest things I've ever heard.

Miss Mitchell says the next one of you to change the subject away from her will get a punch from her.....from her good arm!

Miss Mitchell adds:

"BUH! Buh-buh-BUH! Buh, buh-BUH-buh-buh! Buh-buh-buh-buh-BUH!"

You're a mean old daddy, R358!

But I'm outtasight, R359.

What day is it?

I could never tell those grating folk singers apart.

I don't think Joni Mitchell's ever liked anyone.

Trivia: the guitar player in the ROnstadt clip above is Andrew Gold, the son of DL fave Marni Nixon.

Andrew Gold is also the original songwriter for a certain TV show theme many DL queens know by heart.

Andrew Gold was best known for "Lonely Boy."

He was friends with Karla Bonoff, mentioned above. He, Bonoff and musician Kenny Edwards were in a band that predated any of their solo careers, and they worked together on each other's records, Ronstadt's records and on many other albums. Gold and Edwards have both died, but Bonoff is still around and on tour.

[quote] I don't think Joni Mitchell's ever liked anyone.

*eyeroll* Duh. She told us already.

"Maybe I've never really loved

I guess that is the truth

I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitude"

The albums "Hasten Down the Wind" and "What's Wrong with This Picture?" were recorded by the same musicians in consecutive sessions in 1976.

I believe I heard that the last quote from Ms. Mitchell on the subject of Ms. Collins was

[quote]Blesch fugh sprllls skkkkks ft.

Poor thing, with that stroke.

Yeah, that's not old yet, R369.

I love Janis Joplin.

Brindle was the name of the band Gold was in with Bonoff and others. I was assigned to be their "assistant" when they played the town I was in at the time. All of them were quite lovely, but Bonoff was an absolute haughty bitch to me the whole time. A friend of mine lives in Nashville when Gold lived there, and they were good friends. She broke up with her husband, and he let her stay with him for a long time, until she got on her feet. She has nothing but lovely things to say about him . And n0, they didn't fuck,

Andrew Gold was supremely talented, he popularized the doubled or tripled harmony guitar solo sound so distinctive of the late 70s early 80's. See the example at link.

"Bryndle" with a "y," R372.

Linda Ronstadt sang backup on Andrew Gold’s “Lonely Boy”.

"Drink up now it's gettin' on time ta close." Fast forward to 1:38.

R66 I think that Taylor Swift wanted to portray Joni Mitchell in a movie, but Joni quickly nixed it - thankfully. She said that Taylor was nothing but cheekbones.

Not sure if that's all true or not but saw it somewhere.

Taylor playing Joni Mitchell would be the worst travesty. She's a fake and her whole hippie, sweet and innocent image in her early career was very contrived. Joni was the real deal.

r375 Linda is even more present on "Heartaches in Heartaches" from Andrew's first Asylum album.

So who could have, or still could, play Joni in a movie?

Off the top of my head, Joss Stone?

Can Emma Stone play "bitter cunt?" Because if she can, she would be a good choice.

I'm disappointed that the Linda Ronstadt troll has received a "red card."

I don't know what one does to deserve this but he seemed very reasonable in this thread and others. I want DL to have some levels of moderation but I hope the scales of justice, so to speak, do not tip completely over to the other side.

Andrew Gold's mother was Marne Nixon.

R384 We know. We went over this at R362

I mean R364.

I apologize. I looked back a few post to see if it had been mentioned but obviously not far enough.

----- I feel stupid, oh so stupid

R384

Oh, don't feel stupid, R385. If things could really only be said once on Datalounge, we could all check in once a day.

You never know, r381. The Linda Ronstadt troll may be among us once more. He's been cheated. Been mistreated. When will he get to love Timotay?

The cross outs are ridiculous.

I heart the Ronstadt troll!

Linda's story is so fascinating. She was at the epicenter of the California scene for so many years. Jerry Brown and her were a huge couple back in the day.

I'm surprised no one has wanted to do a movie about her, but given her privacy, she might have been asked but has refused. But what a story! And what a soundtrack to go along with it!

She's pretty much faded from the public consciousness. If you weren't around back in the day, chances are you're not familiar with her.

[quote]I'm glad to hear that Joanie opened for Dylan decades ago. I hope she was treated better than Laura Nyro was when I saw her open for Dylan at an outdoor venue around 1988 or 89. The partly drunk and stoned crowd, who had been tailgating for hours prior to gates opening, pretty much ignored her, wouldn't quiet down, and when she left the stage, after like 20 minutes, she was obviously miserable and just thanked Bob for inviting her.

No, the Dylan fans are drunken cunts. When I saw Joni open for him, there were many drunks that kept yelling during her songs, "WE WANT DYLAN!" WE WANT DYLAN!"

It was very embarrassing. Joni told them, "You don't deserve Dylan."

[quote]Wasn't "Just Like a Woman" partially based on Baez, or maybe completely.

Not it was about Caitlyn Jenner.

[quote]Ann Wilson is amazing

Who?

Obviously, the Linda troll is a psycho on other threads.

"She was as enchanted by (or envious of) Nyro's charismatic stage presence as everyone else."

You're either joking or insane. Because NOTHING about Laura Nyro was "charismatic", least of all her "stage presence." She was bizarre as hell. And one of the most overrated song writers of all time.

Miley Cyrus to portray Joni Mitchell in a film.

Selena Gomez can be Linda Rondstadt.

Caitlyn can be Judy Collins.

R350 yes I think 'Just Like A Woman' was about Edie Sedgwick, who was a real mess.

[quote]Because NOTHING about Laura Nyro was "charismatic", least of all her "stage presence." She was bizarre as hell. And one of the most overrated song writers of all time.

I agree that Nyro was not charismatic. I saw her in concert in a very small club and she looked bored by her own act.

But you are an idiot for thinking she was overrated as a song writer. She wrote some amazing songs.

Is Joni still estranged from her daughter and grandchildren? If she is, that is sad especially considering Joni's health problems.

from "linda ronstadt google alerts"

"But you are an idiot for thinking she was overrated as a song writer. She wrote some amazing songs."

Like what, you dopey Laura Nyro fangurl? I never heard anything she ever wrote that would qualify as "amazing." Her songs may have seemed like hot shit way back when, but none of her shit holds up today.

Shit! Fuck-fuck-fuck, shit!

Please. Laura Nyro is widely regarded as a brilliant songwriter. She was incredible.

Laura Nyro is on a short list of about three women Joni considered equals and/or whose work Joni found original and singular.

Joni was, in this case, absolutely correct.

Conclusion: Don't come for Laura. Just don't.

r402 needs to listen to NEW YORK TENDABERRY in its entirety.

Nah, R406. Let that psycho shrink back into the Madonna-flavored hole out from which he crawled.

I had no idea Andrew Gold is Marni Nixon's son. Andrew Gold is very well known. Wasn't he with Linda for a while?

Musically, he was with her throughout the 1970s. I know he fell in love with her, but I don't know if he was [italic]with her[/italic] with her or not.

[quote] I heart the Ronstadt troll!

Not sure I can agree with that, but "Heart Like a Troll" is one of Linda's best albums.

"Please. Laura Nyro is widely regarded as a brilliant songwriter. She was incredible."

Please. "Can you picnic, can you picnic, surry, surry, surry, surry" is "incredible? You Laura Nyro fangurls are as loony as she was.

R411, Sondheim was a Laura Nyro fangurl and said of Stoned Soul Picnic "in economy, lyricism and melody, it is a masterpiece."

Linda Ronstadt farted in the American consciousness

There I fixed it for you

Nyro hating troll is blocked.

[quote]R410 Not sure I can agree with that, but [italic]Heart Like a Troll[/italic] is one of Linda's best albums.

This made me laugh so hard.

I do have to say, even as a Linda Ronstadt fan, the lyrics to that song never really made sense to me. Why can't you repair a wheel? I think settlers crossing the plains did it all the time (?) If you're truly frau enough, you can mend anything.

Don't interrupt the sorrow, bitches.

Stoney End is mediocre

Linda is still working. She just did a Shake'N Bake commercial with Michael J. Fox.

R418 is disgusting.

Funny, but disgusting.

The lyric " I was raised on the Good Book Jesus, 'til I read between the lines," just taken alone, makes her a better songwriter than so many working today, including some Grammy winners of recent years.

That's about Laura, obviously (not Joni, Joan, Judy, Carly, Chrissie, Stevie or Joss).

Joni was a WAC or a WAVE during WWII?

She fought for the British during the American Revolutionary War, r422.

"Sondheim was a Laura Nyro fangurl and said of Stoned Soul Picnic "in economy, lyricism and melody, it is a masterpiece."

He must have been drunk when he said it.

"The lyric " I was raised on the Good Book Jesus, 'til I read between the lines," just taken alone, makes her a better songwriter than so many working today, including some Grammy winners of recent years."

If you that "just taken alone makes her a better songwriter than so many working today", then you are crazy. That seems something swooning Laura Nyro fans have in common: craziness.

Aside from being profoundly "weird (that's word frequently used by people who knew her to describe her) Nyro's ineptness as a performer was legendary. Her performance at the Monterey Pop Festival was described in "The Mansion on the Hill" by Fred Goodman, a good book about how the music business works:

Wearing a grotesque black dress with just one sleeve and a single gossamer angel wing, Nyro performed an ill-conceived, soul-revue-inspired club act with female back up singers and an unrehearsed band. Even the between song patter proved wildly out of synch with the psychedelic tenor of the fesetive.

Nyro bombed, her show passing into pop infamy. The New York Times reported that the phrase "almost as bad as Laura Nyro" had become the definitive put down for "They laughed her off the stage", says Steve Leber. "I was standing right there. She was crying, screaming, yelling. She couldn't believe it. She was the worst performer in the world."

R373, that video has some of the dorkiest moves ever. I remember all the mainstream rockers trying to punk it up a little around 1980. So ridiculous. That would be a good thread to torment the youngins.

Laura Nyro was never all that good on stage. Her strengths lied in the studio.

Is it true that you once played Dylan a just-finished tape of Court and Spark and he fell asleep?

This is true.

I saw Judy in concert a few weeks ago, she looked and sounded great.

Ronstadt's friend and singing partner Valerie Carter died of a heart attack in Florida a few years ago. S'he recorded several albums but never had a hit. She was a very popular backup vocalist on many big star's albums. I saw her with Linda at Radio City in the 90s in the Feels Like Home tour, It was Linda's last big tour before she got Parkinson's.

I love Joni. I love Linda. And I agree that Selena Gomez could play her in a movie. I was shocked by the resemblance the first time I saw her. And I love Laura Nyro. I agree the latter is an acquired taste, but there was nothing like her when she arrived on the scene. Her combination of Broadway and soul and pop and folk was groundbreaking, and she wrote some classic hits. "Weding Bell Blues." "Stone Soul Picnic." "Eli's Coming." "And When I Die." "Stoney End." etc. I agree she was an oddity, but she was brilliant, so much so that David Geffen left his job at William Morris to be her manager. That's how he got his start in music. I would say that Geffen has shown to have good taste in music.

Judy is borderline retarded

Linda did a tour with a full orchestra in 1997 to promote her "Dedicated" album. She toured regularly throughout the 2000's as well. The first half the show was her Nelson Riddle catalogue, the second half contemporary music with a couple of her 70's songs before encoring with a Spanish song and Desperado.

Feels Like Home was the last tour where sang "You're No Good" "Heatwave" and some of her other big rock hits.

I saw three of those last tours you describe in NYC and PAC Center, NJ. I meant "Feels Like Home" was her last big-budget rock tour promoting an album, with big name musicians like Andrew Gold & Valerie Carter. Nitpicking. It's ridiculous on this site.

I never saw this before. Bette's part had me crying.

But somehow Laura Nyro gave birth to.....Eminem? LOL

R420 I agree Laura was an amazing lyricist, but so was Joni.

They were both poets with a mastery of music. Laura's music aptitude rooted primarily in a Brill Building, almost showtune style, while Joni's music was layered with folk, jazz and some classical roots.

"They were both poets with a mastery of music."

Laura Nyro "a poet" with a "mastery of music?" I don't think so. When it came to music and lyrics she was more of an an idiot savant, rather like Brian Wilson. She was also totally crazy. Janis Ian had some interesting things to say about Nyro in her memoir. First she spoke of Nyros's legendary "weirdness":

"My agent David Geffin, wanted me to meet some local people my own age. He was also representing Laura Nyro, and he arranged an evening out for the three of us. We spent most of it in his limousine, riding around downtown and smoking pot. I invited Laura to dinner at our new apartment, promising to cook. On September 24, I opened the door, to see her standing there, clutching a portable television. "Laura, we have a television here," I said. She explained that her friend Peggy Lipton was starring in a new show called The Mod Squad, premiering that night, and she didn't want to miss it. So we watched tv through dinner, smoked some dope, and made our goodbyes.

I'd known Laura vaguely from Music & Art, where she was two years ahead of me and had a reputation for being weird. You could hear her coming; she wore a long coat that clanked as the Cheracol bottles hidden in her pockets collided. She'd sip from them throughout the day, her eyes getting duller by the hour. In her bright red lipstick and long black dresses she looked like a caricature of Morticia Adams, with bigger hips."

But Ian respects Nyro as a songwriter and works with a producer named Charlie Callelo, based on his work with Nyro. Still, Ian calls Nyro "oddly inarticulate for a songwriter", and that is indeed putting it kindly. Ian recounts:

"Charlie once called me in a panic and asked me to rush down to a session they were doing. Laura was having hysterics because the band couldn't play what she wanted. I arrived to see Charlie walking out of the studio with Laura slung over his shoulder. She was kicking and screaming and crying with frustration. After we got her calmed down, I asked what she wanted the song to sound like. She looked around the room, pointed at a purple chair, and told me, "Like that. I want it to sound like THAT."

I walked back into the studio, looked at the chart, and and told the musicians, She wants it legato. A deep, mysterious legato. Not quite largo, but legato." They got it on the next take and congratulated me on my translation skills."

Janis Ian has washed her pussy twice in her entire life.

I know Janis. She is a little on the abrasive side, but her heart is in the right place, and she is really sweet underneath it all. Her gf -- I think they're still together -- is also lovely.

Has Janis said anything about Dusty?

Janis liked Dusty and said that Dusty sang the definitive version of "In The Winter."

I like and respect Ian and a lot of her work, but I agree with her. Dusty's version is stunning.

[quote]Laura Nyro "a poet" with a "mastery of music?" I don't think so.

Well, as usual, your opinion settles the matter.

Janis Ian had a crush on Joan Baez when she was young.

I didn't know Dusty recorded In the Winter. I just googled it. Wow. What a tremendous version of a wonderful song. I hadn't heard the song since Janis' album came out, and it is much sadder and deeper now that I am older and live alone.

You recent posters DO realize this thread is all about hateful old ME, don't you?

I don't recall any interviews in Joni's prime, but to me it's clear why she became so bitter and vituperative. She was at such a pinnacle in the mid-70s, specifically with Court and Spark. And she could coast on that for a number of years but her own tastes leading her into jazz made the public reject her. It was too different from what had made her popular and the public is fickle anyway. It galled her to see others succeed, because she really believed in her own genius. She had a good run while it lasted. She should have been content with the money, her freedom to pursue her own interests and her small coterie of diehard fans.

Linda Rondstadt...such a beautiful voice.

^^ My midnight spelling....not so much

[bold]: o

Yeah but did Miss Pork Bellies 1974 ever write a song?

R449 I'll have you know I'm BIG BONED!

You bitch, I just know it was you who started THIS:

R446 You have it all wrong.

She had mixed feelings about fame from the start (see under her songs For Free, For The Roses).

She wasn't mad about losing money and millions by taking the less traveled road with her jazz works. What she WAS mad about was that she got lambasted for that new path, while many of the male artists were applauded for the most mediocre farts.

Paul Simon and Sting's world music 80s dabblings both owe a huge debt to Joni's mid 70s work, particularly Hissing of Summer Lawns, but she's never recognized for that. She's always lumped in wit "best female something or another."

Joni IS a bitter old cunt.

And she's right.

I've read other stories about Laura Nyro (I adore her music, mostly) that included accounts of her instructing musicians or producers in terms of colors. "This wants to be more orange," or whatever. Weird. She's crazy, right?

But there is a neurological thing about a very small percentage of people who hear and simultaneously see sounds in color, I later learned. I had a bf for about a year who had worked as a sonar tech on submarines in the Navy, and he said he moved up quickly after testing showed he had a visual perception of sound.

Sometimes angry at him at him, I would say, do I sound red now?

Laura Nyro was a fucking loon, but she was a supremely talented singer and songwriter. One of the best.

Well, we also attribute temperature to colors, r452.

Fuck all these bitches!

Frankly, a singer's nothing without a turban.

Joni loved Miss Buffy Sainte-Marie

And with good reason.

Janis Ian went to HSPA with Nyro and said that Nyro was weird and totally unsophisticated about music composition. She tried to ease the observation by saying how talented she thought Nyro was.

It is clear that Nyro is unsophisticated about composition, but that, oddly enough, is what allowed her to write some incredible songs that defy format and categorization. Had she been more sophisticated, she never could have written songs that combine a million different eras and tempos and styles. She was all over the place. Sometimes it worked -- Stoney End, for instance -- and sometimes it didn't.

Exactly. Songs like Lu and Luckie were such crazy quilts of styles but they worked really well.

Laura Nyro's "I Am the Blues" is just fantastic.

This thread is about Joni Mitchell, not Laura Nyro, you numbskulls. Enough about that crazy woman, for Nyro was indeed nuttier than a five pound fruitcake.

Joni will always take a backseat to Laura.

"Joni will always take a backseat to Laura."

Nope. You're crazy, just like Laura "That song is PURPLE!" Nyro.

Oh, come on, r464. You sound very red, maybe borderline magenta.

R444 I love Dusty Springfield, but that was difficult to listen to. The production was awful -- and the mix horrendous.

Much prefer Janis Ian's more simple original.

R466 You are in the minority, then, as even Ian says Dusty's version is superior.

I think Janis Ian is a very underappreciated songwriter. Her songs are well crafted and intelligent. She deserves more praise.

It's really Court & Spark that's the outlier in Joni's career - it's pretty much the only time her taste meshed fully with the public for a bonafide hit album (and the hit single to go with it). Even Blue wasn't really a blockbuster at the time. After C&S she did the Tusk thing and used her cultural capital to make an album that would push her audience a little, but Hissing seems to be consistently ranked as one of her best records now.

R468, Ian's songs are musical depression.

Janis Ian is a morose, depressing snooze.

R470 and R471 are ignorant. Janis Ian has written a lot of good music. And if she could figure out what Laura Nyro meant when she pointed to a purple chair and said "Like that, I want it to sound like THAT"then she must be a musical genius.

Ian's royalty check for one cent.

Janis Ian's Between the Lines is one of the great albums of the '70s. I prefer her version of "In the Winter."

Laura Nyro = Sesame Street

I haven’t read through the whole thread yet (and I no longer have to start a thread on Judy Collins) but - at 79 - her concert was fantastic. I saw her at a local jazz club; my mom is a huge fan. I’m in my 30’s and only recently learned of her. Her storytelling, *voice*, humor, and candor. She comes off as a humble, survivor. More grace than so much of the crap out there now.

Janis Ian is a terrific singer/songwriter. In the Winter is such a powerful song. I love Dusty's version. Dusty's version was not released until years later because the album she recorded it for was shelved as she was going through personal problems. It makes her version even more poignant.

I sang it too!

Laura Nyro really made some wonderful music.

These two divas are still alive?

I thought Joni was in some sort of coma. Joni should have simply been a songwriter, her voice was like chalk on a blackboard.

[quote] Ian's songs are musical depression.

In the late 60s and early 70s lots of hot bands sold out and did radio spots for Coca Cola. Jan & Dean, Vanilla Fudge, Moody Blues, Nancy Sinatra, Lulu, etc. And Janis Ian. They had two basic formulas. Either energetic or soft psychedelic. Janis did a third variety, utter misery and depression. Listening to her sing 𝘐𝘵'𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 left you almost wanting to cry.

The Janis version sadly is not on youtube but take the Fifth Dimension and subtract the will to live and you can approximate it.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

It's not like Joni Mitchell is a basket of sanity herself. She believes she has red and blue threads in her body.

I'm not a fan of Judy Collins but I do like her cover of "In My Life".

Judy's version of Both SIdes Now is one of my fave singles of all time. The sparkling harpsichord grabs you with and promises pure pop confection but soon levels it with the chunk of the metal high-hit before the voice wavers naively and unsure. A few times she rushes her tempo (when she says "and ice cream castles in the air' ) and her low notes are wistfully sad. The strings arrangement that comes in the second verse is simple bliss, soaring and dancing behind the lyric imagery. The arrangement fits Judy's hopeful lament perfectly. The album version is boring compared to her slight vocal imperfections.

Joni's version with her mourning vocals leaves you sad, but with a sadness you welcome and cherish. But none these versions compare to Joni's remake later is her life. This slower, weary and wise version caps the years of a thoughtful artist who truly is feeling her incredible lyrics.

I like all versions for different reasons.

Emmylou Harris at Joni’s birthday concert.

Toy Story 4 is using "Both Sides Now" in their teaser trailer. And guess who's singing it?

The worst thging anyone has to say about Collins' voice seems to be that it was "mannered", as well as medlodic and far better than Mitchell's. Neither appears to be a poster child for mental health and both have had substance use problems (Mitchell famously was a fan of crystal metahdrine). Mitchell was a horrible concert perfomer--she really did not connect with audiences and avoided crpowd pleasing encores after the era in which giving your audinece the finger had been a badge of honor.

Mitchell is a genius songwriter, but only an OK performer, and a failure as a human being.

Collins had a glorious voice. Mitchell was lucky to get her to popularize her song.

[quote](Mitchell famously was a fan of crystal metahdrine).

I have no idea what you are trying to type.

Joni has admitting to doing cocaine. She even said that the promoters use to pay her and the band in coke back in the '70s.

R489 I admit that Joni was a horrible performer. She bored the shit out of me when I saw her in concert -- and got in verbal fights with the audience.

But she sang her own songs better than Judy Collins, whose mannered soprano never sounded close to sincere.

I didn't like Joni's voice until "For the Roses," when it deepened.

Methedrine. I guess you're too lazy to look it up. It's basically crystal meth. This was back in the 70s, when meth had a heyday.

Joni's voice still sucked and she was a horrible person. She's written some great songs and some misses. But Collins has the beautiful voice.

Judy Collins' voice sounds like a cat being poked in the ass with a flaming stick.

"Mostly," R332?

[quote] Joni Mitchell Detests Judy Collins

Who doesn't?

A couple of people I know have met Judy and couldn't stand her.