Andrew Pollack (Trump 2020 t-Shirt) says "NO GUN PROBLEM!"

Sins of the father...

He's obviously self-medicating his denial and grief through carbs and alcohol. Heart attack in 3-5 years.

Andrew Pollock "likes" the following FB Fan Pages

Pamela Geller

Tommy Robinson

Gun Control Kills"

"The Angry Patriot"

“Obama is a Douch”

“Legally Armed And Proud Of It”,

“BulkAmmo.com”,

“Obama Is Officially The Worst President In American History!”,

“NRA Institute for Legislative Action”,

America Carry Firearms Training”,

“Guns and Range Training Center”,

“Glock 43”,

“America Is Tired Of The Obama Bullshit.”,

“Advanced Firearms”,

“Gun Owners of America”,

“Firearms News Magazine”

, “AR15NEWS.com”, “

Stickman (guns)”,

“Open & Concealed Carry Laws”,

“Survival of the Fittest Pistol Courses”,

“Gun World of South Florida”,

“Concerned Patriots”,

Tomi Lahren”

and “Brietbart”

His page below

FB page

Well, since guns are not the problem, let’s just close down all schools to prevent further school shootings!

Here's another one he can like:

Dead kids USA!

His daughter is lucky she won't have to grow up with this retard any longer.

I told you he did not care about his daughter...what a betrayal, what a scumbag? I told you he cared more about his trump shirt than he cared about his child. He is just a lowlife deplorable.

Wait for the trolls to come to his defense in 3, 2, 1....

How do we "fix schools" when the people he supports want to cut funding, demand that faith and religious gobbledygook take precedence over science and math, never allow problem students to be expelled, force everyone to kowtow to demands from the lowest common denominator, and somehow keep mental cases with guns from storming campuses when the right to buy unlimited guns is more important than common sense safety?

I wrote back when the first thread about him was created that the death of his daughter would not affect his politics. And I thought to myself, I bet I see him on a podium next to Trump one day.

I did not assume that his T-shirt was a deliberate message, but now I see that it was. He really picked a day to advertise his politics...

His poor daughter.

Zzzzzzzzzz.....we all called this 30 seconds after seeing his picture. This shit show is like an old song, you know all the words, but you hate self for knowing them. Nothing to see here folks.

At least the daughter is in a better place now... away from the toxic dad.

Scumbag.

But all the defenders said it was unintentional wearing a Trump 2020 t-shirt!

Thanks for posting that R2. It gives perspective to his insane rhetoric.

Andrew Pollack has probably heckled the surviving kids whose clothes were splattered with his daughter's blood. And silently thanking his g-d that there'll be one less millennial vote to cancel his at the polls, and one less voice to argue against his politics at the dinner table.

There are some that won't change unless it affect them - and in this case, I mean ONLY them. He'll only care if he gets shot and disabled while brandishing a gun himself, and even then it'll require a hell of a humbling setup.

And even THEN, its a long shot. There are some that you'll almost never be able to convince about anything.

r2 He also likes "Hot Israeli Army Girls".... OY VEY!

Shitler was right when he said he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and they'd still vote for him.

He forgot to say, I could murder their children and they'd vote for me.

Sickening, but true.

Guns are NOT the problem- Education is!!!

They cannot be educated. It's still unbelievable to me how ignorant these people are.

I guess stopping to put on the tee shirt on the way to the hospital worked. He's insta-famous!

I’m truly surprised that no one has posted yet calling us all “horrible people” for shining the spotlight of truth on this sorry excuse for a human being.

I wonder how they will try to explain-away his unforgivable behavior. Guesses anyone?

Oh well that's really sad news that even after the death of his daughter in gun violence he hasn't even paused to reflect or consider the issues. Essentially the daughters life was worthless and for nothing in his eyes. There's no much hope in that.

Let's see if THIS gets talked about at that one DL defender's team meeting at work.

Video of his remarks

Sad that he is using his daughter's death to get famous.

Thank you for posting that R25.

She was shot 9 times by a military grade semi-automatic machine gun which was legally available to an 18 year old child and it's [bold]NOT ABOUT GUN LAWS[/bold] he says... That's so disappointing to hear.

This is no big surprise (including the part about this guy using his dead daughter to advance his agenda.); my horrific workplace blasts Fux News all day and what his type are pushing are armed security guards for schools. What do you want to bet this dude's next move is to sue the school for not having sufficient security?

He'll be the anti-Newton parent - advancing the idea that if everyone were armed to teeth (including the kids), this never would've happened. This guy will be showing up at NRA rallies all over the country.

Loves his guns more than his daughter.

"My daughter has no voice. she was murdered last week"

Dad signed her death warrant the day he voted for trump

It's intesting he's supposedly devoted to this cause only after HIS daughter got blown away...but now he's going to fix it all.

Thanks for that.

R25 where is the "censorship" the son in the clip wants eradicated?

I wonder if his daughter had already been cleaned up by the hospital staff/coroner's office by the time he saw her. He couldn't possibly maintain these beliefs if he had seen his little girl's bloodied body, could he?

Trump and Scott should have been forced to tour every inch of the blood-spattered crime scene.

Looks like a DL Fave here!

Welp, he has a nice career ahead of him: Book tour, endless appearances on Fox News where they'll no doubt call him "one of the good ones", CPAC, NRA Spokesperson, RNC Speaker, Campaign Videos.

He should have just shot her himself for all he apparantly truly cared. Same fucking thing. This sad bag of shit will have an epiphany one quiet day and see her blood on his hands forever.

This sad bag of shit will have an epiphany one quiet day and see her blood on his hands forever.

That will never happen; if anything, he's probably just sad that he can't blame her death on Obama or Hillary.

Remember, this is Florida, you had to expect at least one guy like this.

OP, you haven't give us the source for this thread.

Did you speak to Andrew Pollack?

Thoughts and prayers.

"You'll have to pry my gun from my cold, dead hands. My daughter, on the other hand. . ."

Yep, thoughts and prayers. Poor girl. The father is still a fucking asshole.

Too bad he hasn't been shot in his fucking face.

Is this correct that right after learning of his daughters death he runs home to put a Trump t-shirt on?

Is he aware shooting occur at movie theaters, concerts malls, etc? Should we be like Israel and have armed military everywhere so that nut jobs can keep their AR15s?

The school already had an armed guard. Not clear what he thinks should be done differently. Maybe he thinks teachers should be armed? Wait until a kid steals a teacher’s gun and shoots people. What will they suggest then?

He prizes guns above everything else, including the life of his own child.

R43 That is not correct.

This story is run by loons without reliable news sources.

He’s hot as hell, though. He made a big impact this afternoon.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Donald Trump gave Andrew Pollack a THUMPS UP when he spoke and ended his speech by, saying “Mr President, we’re going to fix it”.

Wow. He really ripped them up.

Close-up of Trump and his talking points, because I guess he doesn't do empathy

"It's school safety."

Except mass shootings happen everywhere, not just at schools......how would school safety have prevented Vegas or Orlando?

R32, some people think that criticism = "censorship."

Trump endorses arming teachers as a solution for school shootings. Says if football coach Feis at Douglas had been armed, that would have been "the end" of the shooting.'

I'm here because my daughter has no voice. She was murdered last week and she was taken from us. Shot nine times on the third floor. We as a country failed our children. This shouldn't happen. We go to the airport, I can't get on a plane with a bottle of water, but we leave some animal to walk into a school and shoot our children. It is just not right.

And we need come together as a country and work on what is important. And that is protecting our children in the schools. That is the only thing that matters right now. Everyone has to come together and not think about different laws. We need to come together as a country, not different parties, and figure out how we protect the schools.

It is simple. It is not difficult. We protect airports. We protect concerts. Stadiums. Embassies. The Department of Education that I walked into today has a security guard in the elevator. How do you think that makes me feel? In the elevator they got a security guard.

I'm very angry that this happened. Because it keeps happening. 9/11 happened once. And they fix everything. How many schools, how many children have to get shot? It stops here with this administration and me. I'm not going to sleep until it is fixed.

And Mr. President, we'll fix it. Because I'm going to fix it. I'm not going to rest. And my boys need to live with this. I want to see everyone. You, you look at this. Me, I'm — I'm a man, but to see your children go through this, bury their sister. That's what I keep saying because I want it to sink in, not forget about this. We can't forget about it. All these school shootings, it doesn't make sense. Fix it.

There should have been one school shooting and we should have fixed it. And I'm pissed. Because my daughter, I'm not going to see again. She's not here. She's not here. She's in North Lauderdale King David cemetery, that is where I go to see my kid now. And if we all work together and come up with the right idea, school safety.

It is not about gun laws. That is another fight, another battle. Let's fix the schools and then you guys can battle it out whatever you want. But we need our children safe. Monday, tomorrow, whatever day it is, kids go to school. Do you think everyone's kids are safe?

I didn't think it was going to happen to me. If I knew that, I would have been at the school every day if I knew it was that dangerous. Work with the President and fixed schools. That's it. No other discussion. No more discussions. I'll never see my kid again. Never ever will I see my kid. I want to sink in. Eternity. My daughter, I'm never going to see again. And it is simple. We can fix it.

-Andrew Pollack

[quote] where is the "censorship" the son in the clip wants eradicated?

Link for R32

R51 You need to go to your priest or to Justin Castro/Trudeau if you want tears and empathy.

Where is Ann Coulter to say that the survivors of gun violence shouldn't be allowed to speak about it? That was her thing, right?

I get a weird vibe from dad and all his "my princess" posts about his daughter...kind of like a Trump/Ivanka relationship. Had she been "fat" or "ugly" I doubt he would be this involved. I hope that I'm wrong.

He’s hot as hell....but I still wanna punch him in his face for his stupidity. Really, it’s not about guns? FFS

I'm thinking about the teachers I had in high school and what they would be like if they were armed and...

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Ah, here we go, R45 the Holocaust and Sandy Hook denier makes a weak opening pitch to deflect blame on “people reporting fake news.”

Dry up and blow away, R45.

I used to have cam sex with a soldier in Afghanistan who looked just like him. Hairy chested and horny as sin.

Is the AR-15 a Tommygun? Is it a machine gun? Is it a Gatling gun?

[quote]Loves his guns more than his daughter.

So fucking sad.

These people are so beyond brainwashed that not even the death of their own child can make them open their eyes to reason and logic.

This might truly be a lost cause.

[quote]This is truly a lost cause.

FIFY.

Is it?

He is disgusting...his sons are probably afraid of him, he is just a cowardly bully, looking for a job from his dear leader.

I feel for him, but he is just flat out wrong. We will go bankrupt as a country if we try to turn all of our schools into bullet proof institutions full of armed guards. There just aren't the resources. The teachers are not interested in these solutions.

The cheapest and best solution seems to be more gun laws and less guns. History is going to look back at this chapter of the USA and wonder how we kept missing the obvious here.

He's only saying this isn't about gun laws because he doesn't want it to be about gun laws. Even now he's unable to let go of his love of guns. Infuriating.

I'm glad that if anyone had to die, it was his daughter

R71 = Son of Satan

Well, if she had to be gunned down, at least it was by an AR-15.

R69 nails it. Plus, separately, other civilized countries also have loners and the mentally ill, and yet they have tough gun laws and a lack of guns. Ergo, minimal numbers of deaths by guns.

[quote] [R71] = Son of Satan

That's Daughter of Satan, to you

This father doesn't care about his daughter. He is making this all about him. He's going to be on every show that will have him

He’s smart enough to realize that no attempt at gun control is going to fix the problem of schools being easy targets.

As I understand it, this Trump loving gunfucker was the only bereaved parent related to this recent shooting who addressed Trump. And people are losing their shit because some traumatized teenage survivors had the audacity to prepare their statements to the public in advance rather than grab the nearest mic and start blowing tears and snot at the cameras? The only crisis actor I’ve seen, btw, is Donald Trump with his little cue card reminding him how to express empathy.

He may be a deplorable and morally bankrupt, but he's one hot daddy.

Countries with sane gun control laws will have 1 school shooting a decade while the US has 1 a week.

The insanity about guns is like denying climate change. The truth is obvious but people won't or can't accept it. Very odd.

Even worse, R61, is to imagine the kind of teachers who would immediately volunteer to be these great, patriotic protectors of our sacred schools. The asshole coaches, of course, and any given hothead, Each one certain of who the real freaks of the school are. They’d wear their guns on their hips, giddy over how threatening they would be. Imagine one of these asshole coaches/ health/ metal shop/ ag teachers getting in the face of some “little faggot” with the gun right between them, then pretending that the kid gestured to take his gun. Or imagine him dealing with some “uppity” black kids who don’t just “shut up and dribble” but decide to kneel during the anthem. Asshole coach always runs to break up the fights between dueling cro-mags and now he’ll have a gun bouncing on his hip as he enters the fray. Trump’s vision for America. Such a sick fuck.

So many Americans love their guns more than their nation's children. What the fuck is it about? Other countries have gun control laws, and don't have all these shootings. It's absolutely about the gun laws, and the answer isn't more people with more guns in more places.

Ok well there's your definitive answer. Blind unquestioning loyalty to Trump is unaffected by daughter's murder. By a gun. In school. There is no fucking hope for you America.

Oh R80, very true,

Sad..

As thread after thread on DL has proven, not all parents love their kids. Not all parents like their kids. And not all parents give a rat's ass what happens to them.

A priori, we assume that this man loved his daughter, cared for her safety and well-being, and would be heartbroken at her death.

Whether any of that is true is unclear.

However, if you question many of the base assumptions under which the majority of us, rightfully, operate, then his statements, actions, and positions become much more comprehensible.

This type of brainwashing is why we now live in this absurdly disgusting gun fetish nation. Some people simply cannot contemplate life without guns. It's truly beyond comprehension for them.

Let's hope this generation and the following others can do what we have failed--change the sad acceptance that we must live with guns and gun nuts.

Where is the girl's mother? Did the father shoot her to death?

He's going to be the new Fox "Citizen Commentator" just you watch...

For those who say he's hot -- did you hear his voice? He literally sounds retarded.

"He’s smart enough to realize that no attempt at gun control is going to fix the problem of schools being easy targets."

Well apparently country music concerts, parking lots, offices, and nightclubs are also easy targets......

[quote] So many Americans love their guns more than their nation's children. What the fuck is it about

Have you watched American TV or movies in the past 60 years? The hero has a gun. Zombie apocalypse? You need guns. Want people to obey you? Hold a gun on them. Sylvester Stallone has guns. Bruce Willis has guns. Al Pacino has guns. He even hid a gun "in the can" so he could shoot a crooked cop. He had the baker pretend to be holding a gun to protect Don Corleone. And he asks you to say hello to his little friend. Bonnie and Clyde died in a hail of slow-motion bullets for their sins. Very poetic. We have real live video of Lee Harvey Oswald and RFk being shot on camera.

But mostly the assholes like this man see guns as being an inalienable male right. A man needs his guns to protect himself. Why, if he'd been at that school and he had a gun, he'd have shot that kid before the kid even knew he wanted to shoot anybody. His dead child was a girl. I bet if you asked him if he could have his daughter back alive but he and his sons could never own guns, he'd choose the guns cuz manly men need guns, not girls.

He thinks Trump will give him a job. He is one sick puppy, just like Trump.

Any shirtless pics of hot dad? And, yes, he's an idiot. He can't reconcile his love of guns with what happened to his daughter. it's almost like he's using his daughter's death to get what he wants: more guns.

It drove me crazy yesterday that people on TV and Twitter -- even Rachel Maddow -- were quoting this guy and selectively showing video of him as if this guy was against assault weapons when he said -- not once, but twice -- that gun laws aren't the problem and that we needed to "fix the schools." Pay attention people. He came right out and said it on camera. How could ANYBODY quote him as he wanted gun reform and portray him as a sad dad who wanted what's best for his child?

Rachel?

He's retarded. I mean, there is no other explanation.

R90 is also right. Video games play a role too. Guns have been promoted as the answer to everything. It will never, ever, EVER change.

Guns 1, Daughter 0.

His horrible, horrible politics aside - he is welcome to sit on my face.

Joe the Plumber 2018.

r35, And that's exactly what he wants: a career out of this. The next John Walsh.

He chose his words carefully (and you'll notice they are all about HIM: how HE feels; how HE won't see his daughter again; where HE must go to visit his daughter now---NOTHING about the girl, her dreams, her traits) so as to be quoted in every news report.

Contrast him with the demeanor and the words of Mr. Guttenberg on today's "Morning Joe."

"He’s hot as hell, though."

r47 = A. Pollack.

I do believe video games are a problem. Not all kids who like violent video games are violent, but all violent kids like violent video games. It only takes a few.

When I was growing up in a working class family, only boys were expected to go to college. Girls were to get married and have children right after high school. Then feminism came along and girls started to go to college, too. What I've seen in the past 15 years is girls getting degrees and good jobs. And boys come home from college after the first semester and either won't go back or are barred from going back because they flunked out or were expelled due to drinking/drugging. Just last week my husband got a phone call from a friend of his whose son was in a car accident and had to be remanded for psych evaluation by cops for being fucked up. The two boys who live in the house in front of ours both flunked out of college and the boy across the street from them flunked out, too, after his parents were so proud to have the first kid in their family go away to college.

My husband is a therapist and has become increasingly alarmed at the number of young men who are, in his old fashioned words, "potheads." They can't function without weed and smoke at least three times a day. They can't hold a job. They can't pass a drug test. He's been a therapist for 30 years and would like to get out because of all the "boring assholes" he sees now. The boring assholes aren't just basement dwellers anymore. He sees boys from very rich families who just can't make it because they want to stay home, play video games, smoke up and let mom and dad do all the work. They get porn online, so they don't need real men or women for sex. They have no intellect, no interests. He said, "Thirty years ago kids had an active inner life. I could hold conversations with them. They looked at the world and drew conclusions. Young men today don't look at anything but a screen and the girls are all taking nude selfies to try and get a guy interested in them. They only know social media stars. They don't read. They're so boring and are such unthinking assholes that I don't know how much longer I can take it. They live in front of a screen and can barely express a thought."

Video games help violently-inclined young men dwell on violence and help mundane young men to accomplish nothing in life. Comic books had violent imagery in the past but they didn't place a "gun" in a young man's hand so he could constantly shoot at something. Something happens to a young male brain that doesn't happen to most female brains when it comes to video games.

People need to get organised when it comes to the NRA, they have to be dealt with head on. The CNN debate was a sellout, with that NRA spokesbitch allowed to preen herself for the cameras. Why did any of those kids agree to take part in the debate if the whole thing was scripted? They should have agreed to stick to the script then asked their own questions.

As for Pollock, I feel for the man, however, how any father can say guns aren't the problem after their own daughter was gunned down by a kid armed with a military grade assault rife is beyond belief. The fact he was able to legally buy a weapon like that is the real problem.

I agree with R100. Every time my nieces and nephews play those games, I watch for a few minutes and find these games are incredibly creepy, from the music to the blood and guts and shooting.....and then we wonder why these teens are so disturbed.

"I bet if you asked him if he could have his daughter back alive but he and his sons could never own guns, he'd choose the guns cuz manly men need guns, not girls."

She died for his freedoms, r90!

I’ve been reading comments from alt right wingers who are advocates for guns. It seems the primary reason they want to maintain an arsenal is they want the ability to take up arms against a tyrannical government. However, most of the government, to them, is already tyranny. They won’t feel safe until everyone is carrying a gun everywhere. It’s literally the ONLY solution they are willing to contemplate. Any legal restrictions on guns is viewed as tyranny.

r100, "When I was growing up in a working class family, only boys were expected to go to college. Girls were to get married and have children right after high school. " Are you Class of '42 or something?? I went to h.s. in the '60s, and EVERYBODY expected girls to go to college.

Amazon NRAtv is trending on Twitter. Amazon carries an NRA tv channel. People are pledging not to order from Amazon and to not use Amazon Visa cards until NRAtv is gone. Use your purchasing power just like NRA members use theirs. There are more of us than there are of them. We need to have an Amazon freeze out.

"For those who say he's hot -- did you hear his voice? He literally sounds retarded."

Actually he sounded very "bridge and tunnel" - the kind of guy who RAN from New York - or whose family ran away - because of all of the Puerto Ricans and blacks in "the city."

I want to know more about his background.

I want to know where the girl's mother is.

Dumb schlub. There is a school on every other block. Are we supposed to have armed guards in every school every day ??!!! Public schools can hardly afford textbooks or general maintenance! Arming football coaches? The same ones who molest children in their charge? Idiots!

Limiting access to assault weapons is the only answer. Or impose a 100% state or local sales tax on firearm and ammunition sales to subsidize the public schools that don't have enough for books but now have to have armed guards to protect students from gun-wielding killers.

Was his address to the prez, an audition for next year’s State of the Onion?

BTW, there is another insidious agenda afoot: The Administration's desire for public education to join the Parkland 17 in the graveyard.

Sec. Prince-DeVos and her Blackwater brother Erik Prince seek the demise of public functions of government, from security to the military to prisons to education. Telling Americans that their children must now attend Fortress Schools, complete with police wandering the grounds with AR-15s (the recent edict of Broward County) and teachers wearing loaded guns in holsters while writing the day's assignment on the blackboard, is not the plan to "fix the schools" ( per A. Pollack); rather, it is an attempt to drive families AWAY from public schools and into "secure" "Academies" or, better yet, home-schooling.

You can never go wrong in distrusting anything a Republican tells you will be good for America.

I used to sub at schools. The last thing we need in a classroom, is an irate teacher with a gun.

Keeping in mind that every school DISTRICT usually comprises more than one school, here is a list of all the school districts in the United States: over 13,000.

"Every time my nieces and nephews play those games, I watch for a few minutes and find these games are incredibly creepy, from the music to the blood and guts and shooting.....and then we wonder why these teens are so disturbed."

I'm guessing your nieces and nephews will never kill anyone, and neither do 99% of teens who play video games

R100, My nephews' friends, mostly around the ages of 6-11, who are the most violent and rough when they play outside are the ones who they tell me say spend the most time playing violent games. My sister in law limits their gaming time and they get teased in school all the time about the many games they don't have.

Yes R106, cancel that Prime subscription, fresh grocery delivery is worth giving up for this. Imagine what would happen if stockholders dumped their Amazon shares as well. One statement would put other companies on notice. They can't buy our government if we don't give them our money to buy it with.

Straight from Longuysland or NJ R107

If our country gets really lucky R111 DeVos and her brother will be caught up in the Russia indictments.

Ah, r114; the "OJ Defense". "Not all wife-beaters actually go on to murder...."

r116, are you retarded? There is no link between violence and video games. Maybe you are one of the NRA lackeys who are trying to divert attention away from gun control by blaming "violent video games"

Amen, R78. I want him inside me quite deeply.

I'm surprised no one has asked if he is cut or uncut.

He couldn't even remember where his own daughter is buried, yet he knew not to blame guns.

Yeah right.

He sounded like a mook. One of 'dese, dem, dose' palookas.

I wish people would stop saying LESS guns.

FEWER guns, please.

R119, isn’t he a Jew?

How many long term studies about video gaming have there been with thousands of participants? Because that's what you would need in order to have a genuinely meaningful historical study that looks back over several decades and shows that violent men have histories of video game addictions. Look at gamer gate. Those little shits went after people online, harassing and threatening violence to women. Hundreds of them sending death threats to people who happened to be female or , even worse, female and a minority. They still go after certain female celebrities because they simply exist, sending death threats and spreading lies about them. If Milo hadn't skewered himself by admitting his pedophilic urges, he'd still be traveling the country getting money for giving his little Nazi salutes to Richard Spencer and harassing females who politically disagree with him. The Head Troll of Gamergate went around the country promoting discord, particularly against women. America allowed a foreign misogynist to come into its country and travel around harassing its citizens for $$. That's very fucked up.

How many mass shootings were there before video games? Because there were certainly guns before there were video games, but mass shootings were rare.

R122 yes he is Jewish. . my BF in high school was a redneck Jew. HAF but strange in the head!

[quote] A GoFundMe page to support Meadow’s mother, Shara Kaplan, a real estate agent for Coldwell Banker, had raised $93,000 only five days after it had been posted

I read this in the Miami Herald. Why would this girl's mother need a gofundme?

The problem is, if there really was common sense gun control inacted and assault weapons were banned, you'd most likely have mini Waco type incidents happen all over the country. A lot of the really hardcore gun crazies might be small, but they are crazy, they'd be perfectly willing to duke it out with law enforcement if they came for their guns. In fact for some of them it would be like a dream come true, they'd see it as proof that their fears about the federal government had been right all along.

Peculiar man. He sacrificed his daughter for a bunch of NRA nonsense.

My husband's extended Jewish family are all extremely rightwing. Not "conservative," but rightwing, with all that entails - racism, pro-assault weapon, uber religious, posting fake news stories, watching Fox all night long. A lot of Jewish people left the Democratic Party because they felt democrats were too easy on Palestinians. They hated Obama with the heat of a thousand red necks. They love Trump because he is pro-Israel and they don't care that Trump is only pro Israel because it's expedient for him. He really couldn't care less about them.

Right wing propaganda has been around in a big way since the early 90s. Reagan got rid of not just the fairness doctrine, but of laws that prevented media outlets (newspapers, radio, tv) from being consolidated and owned by too few people. Rupert Murdoch would never have been allowed to own both the NY Post and the Wall Street Journal in the past (not to mention he had the NY Sun for a while until it folded). Clear Channel (I heart radio) would not have been allowed to exist.

The baleful influence of this nonstop propaganda is evident across the country. We now have redneck African Americans thanks to rightwing media's reach into the minds of one-issue thinkers. And right wingers love one-issue thinkers, along with low information voters.

[quote] When I was growing up in a working class family, only boys were expected to go to college. Girls were to get married and have children right after high school. Then feminism came along and girls started to go to college, too. What I've seen in the past 15 years is girls getting degrees and good jobs.

In the last 15 years, R100?? What century did you grow up in? Women, not girls, have been going to university, en masse, and getting good jobs for a lot longer than that.

Though I hate violent video games, I don't know whether or not they are to blame or encourage gun violence. The issue is much more complex than that, though I do believe that "troubled" teens may be more drawn to violent games and can't escape the fantasy they create compared to other kids. In the 1980s, people blamed teen violence and suicides on heavy metal music and games such as Dungeons and Dragons. Maybe some teens who were prone to violence and suicide were attracted to certain types of music and fantasy games, but the vast majority of kids who liked heavy metal certainly weren't violent thugs or suicidal. I know the situation isn't exactly the same, and of course access to guns is the major issue at hand.

As far as this dad goes, I knew he wouldn't change his stance on guns and gun control. He's no different than a Jehovah's Witness who would rather watch their child die of a treatable condition than receive a blood transfusion. He, like other gun nuts, are willingly brainwashed.

In 1970 the average age at first marriage was 21 for a female. In 1960 it was age 20. So, it wasn't THAT long ago that young women were getting married instead of getting a degree.

(For comparison, the average age at first marriage was higher in the 1890 than it was in the 1960 or 1970)

Perhaps I misunderstood, r117. But your conclusion about me is very wrong, as I am also r98.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pollock was involved in politics on a local level before the shooting happened. It might be because he had some contacts that they've reached out to him somehow. The way he's acting over his daughters death seems strange; I think he's been promised something in return for his refusal to blame lack of gun control in contributing to his daughters death.

Not to mention it was "working class girls" who were expected to get married instead of going to college, not middle or upper class girls. Think Aunt Diane (who dropped out of community college). Marriage + children = success to a lot of young women even today.

r127, And the victor at Waco was....?

[quote]Why did any of those kids agree to take part in the debate if the whole thing was scripted?

They're kids and they're being taken advantage of by the media, dipshit. And you bought right into it, meaning you're the last person who should be complaining about "those kids."

I was working class, went to HS 1969-1973 and my parents saw no reason to plan to send me to college. It would be marriage & children for me (in their minds) just like it was for my sister (HS 1966-1970), my female cousins and all of their friends. I was always asked by relatives if I had a boyfriend from the time I was about 14.

The pill wasn't available to rural, poor, working class girls or girls from very religious families who didn't live anywhere near a Planned Parenthood. Most poor and working class women who married in the 60s were pregnant at their weddings and everyone knew it. Their doctors wouldn't give them BCP until they were married. Teen girls couldn't get the pill at all in those days without Planned Parenthood, which was a new and rare presence in communities

[quote] A lot of the really hardcore gun crazies might be small, but they are crazy, they'd be perfectly willing to duke it out with law enforcement if they came for their guns.

I don't know that I would have a problem with this as long as my tax dollars are going to provide law enforcement with state of the art body armor and other tactical supplies.

R100, your post sounds like it was written 1975. Feminism didn't just come along 15 years ago, and your therapist husband is an idiot if he thinks boys need psych evals because they smoke too much pot.

Seriously, you sound like an aging Midwestern right-wing frau pretending to be liberal.

I know plenty of girls who got married at 18 or 19 in the 60s and the vast majority of them weren't pregnant at the time. A lot of girls got married young because they were told that being a mom and having kids was what a woman was supposed to do.

College attendance for men and women was equal in the 1920s (8% for both). It was only after WWII and the GI bill gave free college to soldiers were there more males than females in college. Now, it's done a huge 180 and men are drastically underrepresented in higher education. Society spits on boys then says, why do they become angry?

He doesn't sound retarded. He just sounds working class; I'm guessing from some Boston suburb. And I thought it was horrible how he couldn't remember where his daughter was buried, and he didn't seem to show any real grief. I was stunned. He will parlay this into a Joe the Plumber career, but his accent might limit his success. There is, however, always porn.

R135: That's the problem. Waco was bad enough, however, you multiply that by the dozens at least and you've got some idea what the government would be up against if they really tried to ban all automatic weapons. The government may have "won" at Waco but the fall out was horrific. All you have to do is look at what happened at Ruby ridge, the family involved in that stand off felt justified whether you agreed with it or not. I can well imagine incidents like that happening all over the country if the government got really tough on gun control and banning assault weapons like they did in Australia. The NRA go apeshit even over the most common sense gun laws.

Cry harder, r141. Men aren't being "spat upon" just because women make up 57% of students now.

You weren't saying women were being "spat on" when they were a minority, were you?

Even though Trump is scum, I think it is unseemly to say "I'm PISSED!" to the President of the United States, especially when you know you are on camera. It looks crude and stupid. The Guttenberg father did the same thing to Rubio. You can't find a better word: "I'm outraged/angry/furious/brokenhearted"?

No, I'm "pissed."

r141, "men are drastically underrepresented in higher education. Society spits on boys then says, why do they become angry?"

1. Many young men are choosing to skip university educations because they HATE THE LIBERAL ARTS. They want only computer education, technical learning. ITT, not IVY.

2. " Society spits on boys...." This is one of those "Beyond Stupid" assertions. Are you saying that females rule on Wall Street? In Entertainment? In government? In pay and privilege? Stupid.

R145, I think the least important issue in all this is the use of foul or inappropriate language of someone who lost a child. Even this dude.

Australia banned assault weapons. Let's see. How many mass shootings have they had since then?

Ban all assault weapons. Who cares what these gun idiots think? No right is without restrictions. See freedom of speech as a prime example of this.

These same gun enthusiasts are the same people who want to ban abortion because of the sanctity of life. Yet, they could care less when 17 people are mowed down. No life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness for you 17.

I don't fucking care what this Deplorable thinks. His daughter is rolling over in her grave.

As I stated upthread, I think he was involved with local the rethugs somehow, the t-shirt was a giveaway in my opinion. Why would you be wearing something like that of all things while you're desperately trying to find your daughter. Then there's the weird way he's been acting since, maybe I'm being cynical but it seems like he's been reading from a script whenever he's asked anything.

[quote]I do believe that "troubled" teens may be more drawn to violent games and can't escape the fantasy they create compared to other kids.

I think you're right r130 and I think the father has a version of this himself. If you look at the list of the pages the father likes on facebook at r2 he appears to have completely immersed himself into the most extreme of the gun culture world as opposed to a person who just wants maybe one gun for protection or rifle for hunting.

He seems unable to make the connection that the very extreme gun culture he's a part of is not his fantasy world where the good guys with guns will take out the bad guys. The easy access to semi automatic weapons for the mentally unbalanced people like this kid who killed his daughter and 16 others is why these kids are at risk from the crazies who will always slip through the many cracks that the gun lobby and the politicians in their pockets refuse to address.

If it's not guns it's something else - people using cars as weapons (the new rage) bombs etc. guns don't kill people - people kill people

We have the right to bear arms for a reason - it's our protection if a dictator takes over the government etc. do you think all those Jewish people would have been killed in Germany by Hitler if they had guns? No, they would have been able to protect themselves from that lunatic.

Fix the guns laws yes, but I'm not for taking away the right for responsible adults to own their own gun.

Flame away - I dont give a shit.

Fuck, r153. If a Hitler type came to power in the U.S. most of the gun crazies like yourself would be his biggest supporters; we all know how the rethugs and the GOP assholes treated Obama when he was in office. The only lunatics we have to deal with is the ones like you.

R26 he referred to her as a "commodity" in that clip 😔

There is only one solution for America's gun problem, and it begins with the repeal of the Second Amendment (since it was so severely misconstrued by the SCOTUS to allow practically every weapon ever created). Yes, I know this will never happen, so don't even start.

If the yahoos think that owning a gun is going to somehow prevent the government from becoming tyrannical, they are sadly mistaken. In many ways, we already live in tyranny: we have universally recognized severe problems that we simply cannot solve, thanks to specific forces that will use any means necessary to prevent meaningful change.

As Pollack shows us, they've begun to wear down the premise that personal experience with the wrong side of a gun changes minds. Pollack is the role model for future gun violence family members: embrace guns before anything and everything else... and that includes your children.

Of course i feel bad for his horrible loss ...

but he was such an embarrassment at yesterday’s white house listening session. He was in pain, but spoke like an uneducated moron - and you could tell many in the room wanted to jump in and say, “OK, you’ve had your say, now Stfu” - but of course no one could. Everyone except the pres & vp who placed this poor badtard in the program in the first place. The entire thing was a sham.

His devotion to gun culture astounds me. I cannot wrap my head around how this fanaticism in the US has taken such root and left us so vulnerable, damaged, and almost hopeless.

On an unrelated note, I want to suck his balls until the spring equinox.

Your devotion to sucking balls astounds me. I cannot wrap my head around how this fanaticism in gay men has taken such root and left us so embarrassingly base.

All I can say is that I'm glad I got my teaching degree from a good Christian woman's college.

"There is only one solution for America's gun problem, and it begins with the repeal of the Second Amendment (since it was so severely misconstrued by the SCOTUS to allow practically every weapon ever created)."

What the fuck are you talking about?

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…” It is “… not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” -- SCALIA, for Christ's sake

Repeal the second amendment? Um, I don't think so.

I'm all for gun laws. Make more if needed, but don't touch that second amendment. We all have a right to own a gun to protect ourselves if needed.

I'll be damed if a select few wackjobs ruins that right for the rest of America.

Make more laws. DOn't allow anyone with mental illness to own a gun. THat's fine. I support that.

But don't repeal the second amendment.

If someone wants to kill - they'll find a way. With or without a gun.

All this talk of banning guns is a bunch of bullshit.

"We have the right to bear arms for a reason - it's our protection if a dictator takes over the government etc. do you think all those Jewish people would have been killed in Germany by Hitler if they had guns? No, they would have been able to protect themselves from that lunatic."

Oh, please, most people aren't going to assassinate their leader whether they have guns or not. Most people aren't capable of murder. Lots of people hate Trump but he's still around - no one killed him. And if "the government" wants to kill you they'll use drones, bombs, etc. guns will not protect you.

"If it's not guns it's something else - people using cars as weapons (the new rage) bombs etc. guns don't kill people - people kill people"

Except the gun is the easiest way to kill someone. That's why America has so many homicides. Countries with strict handgun laws don't have disproportionately huge numbers of murder by knife, bombing, etc.

"If someone wants to kill - they'll find a way. With or without a gun."

Not true. Having a gun in the home makes it easier to kill someone. It also makes it easier to kill yourself or to accidentally kill/injure someone.

"Do you think all those Jewish people would have been killed in Germany by Hitler if they had guns? No, they would have been able to protect themselves from that lunatic. "

r153, This is such an illiterate, asinine, bizarre claim as to shock the reader into stuttering madness. Do you think, seriously, that YOU and all your neighbors would be able to defend yourselves from THE UNITED STATES MILITARY AT YOUR EFFING DOORS AT MIDNIGHT? POINTING THEIR MACHINE GUNS AT YOUR CHILDREN?

You are yet another example of the utter and complete failure of American education.

Some of them would likely try and do just that, r164. And therein lies the problem, hordes of gun crazed wackjobs who'd put the lives of themselves and their families on the line over the mistaken belief that the right to bear arms somehow represents freedom in this country.

R165 Its not like there would be a shoot em up standoff like in a movie, these idiots who think they are prepared for tyranny won't even see it coming if it does. Series finale, Sopranos style.

I'm assuming that Faux News will have him as a regular on most of their programs.

Sad for his daughter, not him. If he STILL doesn't think this country has a "gun problem", well..............

Does the father have a job or will he just be touring the country now?

There is a common psych term for this guy that I cannot remember, but it goes like this..

This man will never admit that guns are the problem, because that might make him complicit in his daughter’s death. That’s too paunful. It’s just too painful to ever admit. Instead, he’ll double-down on his pro-gun ideas.

His sons, meanwhile, know their father’s love and support depend on their adopting a philosophy that is agreeable to their father. They’re hostages, and struggle to be even more deplorable that their father, to gain his approval.

I;ve seen the word "retarded" at least 5 times to describe Pollack. "Retarded" apparently in this thread, is anybody who doesn't conform to the posters' exact script and opinions. God forbid Pollack should have his own opinion about the cause of his daughter's death. I think he's wrong about guns being a separate issue, but he's not retarded, he's very well-spoken, and he's addressing some issues which are important. We as a country have failed to get serious about safety and security in public spaces The schools, at least right now, have to be protected better, and weird kids like Cruz have to be dealt with more aggressively. What's so retarded about that ?

[quote] We have the right to bear arms for a reason - it's our protection if a dictator takes over the government etc. do you think all those Jewish people would have been killed in Germany by Hitler if they had guns? No, they would have been able to protect themselves from that lunatic.

Have you ever thought how this would play out? Imagine if Trump seized power somehow. He declares martial law. As things escalate, finally, some people march on DC. But they are met by an army of Deplorables, and they start shooting each other. And that escalated until dozens of factions are all killing each other. Periodically, the government goes out and mops-up. That’s what happens. Anarchy. Civil war. Any militia attack directly on the government will be crushed.

In a democratic-republic, you have to use passive resistance to appeal to the humanity of the military. You can’t expect that a charge on the capital by an armed mob would have any kind of success. Those days are long past.

GOOD LORD

HOW MUCH IS THE NRA PAYIN HIM TO SPOUT THIS CRAP?

MAYBE HE NEED MEDS

DUDE UR DAUGHTER IS DEAD!!!

WAKE UP

I admire this man. My daughter died and I never compromised my prinicples either.

R170, people who call this man "retarded" are trying to be kind. In fact, the father seems exploitive, as though he were trying to leverage his daughter's death into a speaking career.

Let's be honest here: Japan is an advanced country, full of a public spaces. It's full of frustrated, crazy young men. And yet it has virtually no gun murders. Why? Strict gun control. It's the easiest step to take to prevent murders. Yet this father of a girl who was shot to death is against that.

R174 Is that why you say about the students who marched and went to town halls this week? Are they looking for payday and fame too? Or does that apply only to someone you disagree with? Everybody who went to the White House or Tallahassee, they're just looking for camera time?

This guy is a moron.

Kind of a hot moron, but still a moron. He was loud and inarticulate. His son who also spoke at the Trump meeting was even dumber.

I’m sorry the girl lost her life, but she came from morons.

He is absolutely NOT “well-spoken,” like someone said upthread. He sounds pretty simple-minded. He and Trump probably get along real well.

He loves his fear and fragile masculinity more than his daughter

Am I the only one who thought he sounded like he was from Boston ?

R176 was the son hot too ?

I thought he sounded like he was from Jersey.

He seems more angry than heartbroken about his daughter's death, and to some extant, that's normal. But that's all he seems.

R179 Yes. He sounds nothing like a New Englander at all. He sounds like a Jewgine from Brooklyn.

That's not a Boston accent, it's more NY or NJ

His whole reaction to his daughters death is bizarre, but maybe he’s the type who doesn’t show much emotion in public.

Damn you, R179! That troglodyte does NOT sound like a Bostonian or a Rhode Islander or a Connecticut Yankee. As R183 wrote, he’s a NY Jew (not that there’s anything wrong with that), though I can’t zero in closer than that. A lot of those affected by the shootings sound right out of NYC. Is this FL location a magnet for NY émigrés?

[quote] R178: He loves his fear and fragile masculinity more than his daughter

It is a bizarre and common feature of Trump supporters to be overwhelmed with fear and react with a false bravado that includes protecting themselves from their imagination with guns , and hating people who look different.

Youse guys all sound the same to me, like you're bound for an rv trip to Napa with the Giudices and Lauritas.

"This man will never admit that guns are the problem, because that might make him complicit in his daughter’s death. That’s too painful. It’s just too painful to ever admit. Instead, he’ll double-down on his pro-gun ideas."

Bingo.

And as I said upthread, the guy is 100% bridge and tunnel. There's something going on with him though, and we here at DL usually are the first to pick up on things AND never let go when everyone else has moved on. I am sure more will emerge soon.

Perhaps stop obsessing about this Andrew. Bother with those that are more reasonable.

Hey, has anyone seen that site on YouTube where a bunch of nelly gays do gun reviews?

R186 He sounds like a Jewgine. A NYC Jewish guys who acts and sounds Italian. Someone like the odious Andrew Dice Clay.

Jewgine?

Was this dad wearing the Trump shirt before the shooting or did he put it on after? Who would think about what they are wearing right after finding out their daughter had been murdered?

Does it matter? The Jewgine dismissed guns as a problem as well.

The son has an enemies list on his Facebook page

Perhaps he owns or works in a gun store? Does anyone know what he does for a living?

You’ve nailed it, r197. I bet he owns and operates a gun store.

The mother:

Meadow:

They named her after a Sopranos character.

I’ll bet Meadow was named for the eponymous character from the Sopranos. That’s class with a capital “K” (or in this case “KKK”).

Mom and Dad both graduated from Oceanside High School, NY.

Thanks posters from R181-R192 for telling me about the accent. I kept scratching my head thinking my ears were deceiving me that a Florida man had a New England accent.

Regardless of his leanings, no one can deny that they are all good looking.

Which is as deep as you can expect most DL'ers to go when discussing evil.

He really expected Trump to give him a job. Afterall Trump has hired a large number of ignorant assholes, one more would fit perfectly.

You can see his obvious opportunism. He'll find the right district, probably Osceola County, and get elected to Reprsentative. Probably serve a couple of terms before his corruption and/or a sex scandal sends him home.

He'd be singing a different tune if it had been one of his son's that were shot.

Pricks like him always feel women are inferior and expendable. But had his son been killed, he'd go off the rails.

He's nothing but but a worthless bag of shit. Stupid fucking idiotic accent and all. The sooner he drops dead, the better off the world will be.

Osceola is not all that conservative. Central Fl. is purple, and there are a lot of PRs and Mexicans in the Kissimmee area.

Panhandle is the place for him.

R204 Please don't call that a "New England accent"!

Damn, that's a fucked up family! Her brother is already on Facebook complaining and joking about traffic and other trivial concerns. It's like they don't even care their sister/daughter is dead!

Heaven needed another patriot warrior!

Are angels in heaven armed with AR-15s, I wonder?

If the Second Amendment doesn't exist in the Lord's heaven, will deplorables still pray and want to end up there?

R153, assuming that citizens need guns, why in hell do they need assault rifles? To mow down the hordes of soldiers coming for them?

No sympathy for that father. For the kid, yes.

Idiot can't see that a determined killer would then simply pick a different target, say an outdoor concert.

It's the guns.

I knew all those people invited to the idiot's "listening session" were gun-loving plants. Except for maybe the Sandyhook mother, she's active politically and known to be "polite" about it.

"Gun-loving plants"

Except that they weren't as smart.

At least there is one less future Trump voter alive.

R219, make that 84 fewer Trump voters in the last few months alone, if you include Las Vegas and San Antonio shootings.

Fourteen students murdered, fourteen fathers and fourteen mothers affected, and I'll bet we all spotted this one father's fame-whore nature immediately.

Andrew Pollack will visit the White House again on Thursday.

But the New Yorker native in him wants to fight and now he has a platform, he said. He’s fighting for school safety and he’s fighting a false sense of safety he said parents today have fallen into.

“I feel like a lion, that someone poked me and they woke me up and I’m angry,” he said. “We have a failed system, every school system has failed.”

Pollack said he’s not interested in the partisan politics of gun control debates. He calls his views those of “the Human Party,” and he seeks to unify communities to protect children. He has been invited back to the White House for a meeting Thursday and also plans to visit Tallahassee, where he will show his support for Gov. Rick Scott’s school safety proposal.

The bill calls for $450 million to fund police officers, metal detectors and bulletproof glass, among other safety upgrades, on school campuses. Scott’s bill would also fund mental health programs and raise the age to buy a firearm in Florida to 21.

Pollack wants Florida to lead by being proactive about school safety, but he said he wants to see reform in New York next.

“I thought she was safe at school,” he said. “If it can happen to me, a regular guy from Long Island, it can happen to anyone.”

"You have the choice to go to any school you want, so my answer to them is, 'If you don't want a teacher or a marshal or you don't want someone with a gun at your school, you go to a gun-free school zone. That's where you go,'" said Andrew Pollack, who attended the meeting last week at which Trump suggested arming teachers.

Leaving to parents whether to send their children to schools with armed teachers or a police presence "fixes everything," said Pollack, who spoke Wednesday with anchor Alisyn Camerota on CNN's "New Day."

"This is America, and it's freedom of choice, right?" said Pollack, whose daughter, Meadow, died in the Parkland, Florida massacre.

Interview with CNN at link

What I want to know: is he in favor of banning ARs? If not, his words are empty.

But his daughter did go to a school with an armed guard?

“If it can happen to me, a regular guy from Long Island, it can happen to anyone.”

Yeah, Pollack, "it" happened to YOU, not your daughter.

"You have the choice to go to any school you want...."

No, Pollack; not in public education. Not even in Catholic education. These students must stay within their district or diocese.

PRIVATE schools? Pick your poison; that's why they charge extra to attend. (In PA, though, all private school students have the right to be transported in public-school buses or vans up to a 10-mile radius.)

I think I saw an interview of him yesterday hanging out at the school as the kids were going back to it. It was almost like he was guarding the school. Is he going to turn into a crazy old man standing in front of the school daily?

r227, I believe the words " I saw an interview of him" contain your answer.

What do these fucking tards want: turn every school into an armed camp with guards and teachers carrying multiple firearms. To do what they request would cost a fortune and is impossible to fund. This guy lost his daughter and he still can't see it that the reason she's dead is because some fucked up loser was able to buy a high powered assault rifle that enabled him to kill 17 people in less than five minutes. These are the people you're up against, they won't give any ground no matter what.

No it doesn't R228 since that was a typo. What's his purpose in hanging out in front of a school that his daughter no longer attends. He looks a little stalkerish. Now he's talking about going to the White House to talk to Trump again. Someone may need a restraining order.

The first day I saw him with his ridiculous tee shirt, I knew he was a nut. I only wish he had died instead of his poor daughter.

He's a right wing nut job, he gets his news from FOX NOIZE!

Then if he really mourns his daughter I pity him, r232. The guy saw his own flesh and blood gunned down and yet he still refuses to change his mindset.

R231 I feel the same about you.

[quote] I thought she was safe at school,” he said. “If it can happen to me, a regular guy from Long Island, it can happen to anyone.”

What odd logic. Is there something about Long Islanders that is supposed to make them particularly impervious to shootings or violence?

Looked at his "enemies" list and yup, definitely deplorable. His daughter dodged a bullet - figuratively speaking.

He is on Face The Nation and hawked his new website "Follow Meadow" dot.com

Pollack says the school students protesting should be focusing on school safety, NOT GUNS. That a better use of their time would be focused on school safety.

He says gun laws are NOT ACHIEVABLE. 200 shooting are being twisted into a gun problem in America by the media.

Guns and Trump are more important to him than his daughters life?

Yeah, he seems like a typical Trumpkin to me.

R238/R239 why does he think those things are opposed to gun control? That they can’t be done in conjunction with limiting availability of dangerous semi-automatic weapons?

No one needs a semi-auto weapon that can conceivably hold a 30 round (or more) clip.

Pollack seems like the kind of Bridge and Tunnel transplant who'd have been more upset if his daughter had died a virgin.

r230, I meant, "He likes to be interviewed. On TV." Get it, now?

I just saw this character on MSNBC. He really is too stupid to live.

If you think Andrew Pollack is a tough gun-nut to crack, consider fellow Floridian William 'Clayton' Brumby, who accidentally shot and killed his own son on a shooting range:

[quote]“The gun didn’t kill my boy — I did,” Brumby told CNN. “Every round in the gun is your responsibility. When it fires, you need to stand to account for it. That’s what I’ve spent the last two days doing, accounting for my operating error.”

[quote]“It was a very freak accident; I made a mistake,” he told CNN. “It doesn’t take but a split second for something to go wrong — and that could be [the case] with a gun, it could be with the wrong medicine, it could be with any number of things.” Brumby told the Times he has been shooting for about three years; his family, he said, practices at the High Noon Gun Range, which claims to be “Sarasota’s #1 Indoor, Air Conditioned Range.” In 2013, the Herald-Tribune called the gun range the spot for “safer, cooler, quieter, greener shooting.”

[quote]The gun range owner said his employees are knowledgeable and all safety protocols were followed. “Everything operated the way it was supposed to operate,” Buchan told The Post, also calling the incident an “operator error.” He added: “There was nothing you could have done. You cannot control a weapon when it’s in somebody else’s hand.” He said he is not blaming the father but that he found it “baffling.”

[quote]Brumby said he keeps guns in his home, so it was important that his children learn about gun safety. “We wanted our kids to be aware of guns,” he told CNN after the fatal accident. “I wanted them to be comfortable around them and understand them.”

[quote]Following his son’s death, Brumby said he will continue to keep firearms in his home. “I can’t fix this,” Brumby told CNN. “It’s just a great loss, but thankfully we’ll see him someday. “I have a feeling he’s on a great lake out there.”

I am all for sensible. reasonable firearm reform.

Having said that, he is right about ONE thing, and even though you despise him he spoke the truth. A mentally ill or just plain evil person knows that the one sure target rich environment for him to act out his demented desires is a "gun free zone." Those areas are like pure honey to a bee to the potential mass shooters.

Remember that horrid person who went to an Amish schoolhouse to conduct his sick and perverted sexual fantasies on those innocent unprotected children? He knew they would be both unprotected and also non-combative. Sane people do not think like the perpetrators of these atrocities, so of course we don't really want to deal with the realities of them.

I am not preaching to arm teachers. I am suggesting that it may be time to insure that every public school have at least one armed protector who is willing to do his job, unlike the coward deputy sheriff of Parkland. The knowledge that an armed LE protector may well appear and blow a shooter's head off(as opposed to declaring a school a gun free zone) could serve as a deterrent to many potential shooters.

At any rate, the time has come to at least stop declaring churches and schools "gun free." Even if no one on the premises has a weapon, why announce that an entire venue is defenseless?

R246 - most of these shooters go in looking to die, so gun free zones are not the point here. Most shooters either want to die in a hail of bullets by police or they end up shooting themselves. And this school HAD an armed cop on premises but that deterred nothing.

Is that really your take R246? What about the Vegas Shooting that happened during an entire gun show love fest. That was not a 'gun free' environment which is why no one stopped the madman who was making multiple trips getting his weapons to his hotel room. That was not a gun free environment. In fact, when he was shooting out of his window and killing people, some of those people at the country music show had guns. CNN interviewed them and they said they didn't take out their guns because they were afraid that the Swat teams would identify them as the shooter and kill them instead.

You think that's unlikely? Just listen to the boy who was marched out the classroom by SWAT at Stoneman Douglas because he looked similar to the gunman and was wearing similar clothes. When they asked him to put up his hands he started instead to put his phone in his pocket then thought better of it. He almost got killed by swat. Now imagine if he was the good guy with the gun. How was the police going to identify him.

I see multiple problems in the way you view the world and guns. More guns do not help. More guns in church and schools will not eliminate mass shootings. It will increase them.

R248 Perhaps you missed the main point of my post.

I was addressing the concept of declaring schools and churches as "Gun Free Zones." Of course this does nothing for outdoor mass shootings.

But if it would curtail school and church shootings to stop the policy of declaring those venues to be an easy target rich environment, would not that be a step in the right direction? I also addressed the cowardly ineffective deputy on the premises of Parkland. He was an anomaly. Most cops would have confronted the shooter without regard for his personal safety.

How are you going to predict who is going to step up and who is going to act like a coward? Do you think anyone thought Peterson would act the way he did until he did it?

Really R249, now you're making exceptions for outdoor. Well the fact is he bought guns INDOORS. He happened to shoot outside a window. He also shot at people inside the building. This was an INDOOR venue that allowed GUNS. It was not GUN FRee.

And FYI Schools are not prisons. There's indoors and outdoors. In Texas they stopped a guy with a gun and arsenal outside a sporting event for his local high school. You allow guns into a school then sooner or later some genius will doubledare someone else to get said gun away from the teacher o r the teacher could snap like that one just last week. Your arguments about gun free zones are WEAK.

The point is Cruz targeted the school even knowing there was an armed LEO on premises so it didn't deter him with this 'gun free zone' bullshit.

Okay guys, I was making what I thought was a reasonable proposition.

Not as the solution for all gun related problems, but as an idea which might be amenable to both sides of the aisle which could HELP, not solve, the problem of school and church shootings.

From the brusque rebuttals I received I have just one last thing to say: You guys should prepare to be very, very disappointed and frustrated. No one is ever going to agree to gun control on the level it will take to make you happy. The best you can hope for is a slight small compromise.

That is the reality of the country we live in.

If the premise that gun-free zones to mass murderes are like shit to flies, then I'm all for every church in the world being declared a gun-free zone, advertised widely, and with mandated multiple entries but exits locked from the outside. And the same goes for gun shows.

Some folks think the act of telling people we don’t want guns in areas makes those areas less safe. We tell people we don’t want guns on cruise ships, in nursery schools, or on airplanes because the risk of tragic results, by innocents or by those who’ve had too much to drink (or otherwise) is too high.

Either we put some limits on gun production, or we turn every gathering place people over to the TSA.

R252 More people should be making this argument. The school in fact wasn't gun free. It had an armed police officer on the premise. It had security guards as well. This was not a deterrent at all to the mass shooter.

The same thing happened with Fort Hood. Could there be a place less gun free than a military base? That didn't stop a mass shooter from going there and shooting the place killing 13 people.

Ammosexuals will always side with their precious gun over anything else. They are mentally ill.

Did anyone look at the mother's GoFundMe page? The money is being collected to pay for the daughter's funeral and to support the self-described single mother until she feels ready to go back to work. So she and Daddy-o are divorced...

r258, See r199 and r200.

The "gun free zone" argument is really a red herring. The problem is assault weapons. No one with an AR-15 is going to be afraid of walking into a place (church, school, place of business, wherever) on the off-chance that someone there might have a handgun. As this case demonstrates, handguns are not a deterrent to someone with an assault weapon. They know that they have vastly superior firepower.

Now I'm seeing this family is a mess. The son has an enemies list which includes all democratic politicians and reporters like Rachel Maddow and Anderson Cooper. Surprised they interview anyone from this family on CNN. They may need a restraining order.

And I don't trust the go fund me for the so called single mother as she's a realtor for Parkland which is one of the wealthier Broward suburbs. That's my niece's school & I've seen the cars the kids drive. Not everyone that goes there is rich of course, (including my family) but I'd be very selective in giving to those go fund me accounts.

Asshole Pollack whined that when he went to a courthouse there was a metal detector and a security guard in the elevator. Why can't schools be like that?he wanted to know. Why aren't schools safe?

Can you imagine trying to get an entire school to walk through one or two metal detectors every morning? Put security guards on all stairwell landings?

Guy's a fucking maroon.

[quote]A mentally ill or just plain evil person knows that the one sure target rich environment for him to act out his demented desires is a "gun free zone."

It wasn’t really a gun free zone. There was a gun there. It was carried by a guard. Personably Cruz knew there was an armed guard on the premises, because he attended the school. So much for your argument.

The armed guard was too afraid of being in a gun battle, especially with a person with an assault rifle, to intervene. To be honest I don’t blame him at all. It’s human nature. That said, so much for *that* argument too.

The answer to this problem is obvious, but we have too many people who feel small and powerless, and are addicted to the perceived power an assault rifle gives them, to adopt that answer. They will never stop arming that the solution is ANYTHING other than an assault weapons ban.

arming=arguing

Damn you DL for your lack of an edit feature.

This is something parents are going to have to support (assault weapon ban). It's going to have to take a lot more dead kids before this country does anything.

The useless democrats need to learn to get an effective message across (that they don't want to end the second amendment, just have decent, effective gun control). They really missed a wonderful opportunity after this shooting to put forth a plan. They need to craft some legislation and have it ready

The guy's a POS and at least one of the sons seems off. But as for mama, I get why it might be a while before she feels up to showing tract mansions again, and realtors rely on their commissions--so an influx of cash to tide her over might not be unreasonable.