Why did Princess Margaret refuse to bow as Princess Diana's coffin went past the Royal family at Buckingham Palace?

It all happens in the first minute and a half in the YouTube video.

Margaret was not known for her compassion.

Watching the whole video, seeing Charles and the boys joining the procession with Philip, and Charles Spencer, the asshole. I was suddenly hit afresh at how horrible it was. That she was dead and there they were, those two little boys. It's easy to forget as we watch them now, how young they were when it happened.

But why especially in this case [R2]? I'm sure she felt compassion over other royal deaths? Even Prince Charles weeped over Diana and they were the two most at loggerheads.

He was probably weeping with relief.

There’s a huge difference between mourning your ex-niece-by-marriage and mourning the estranged mother of your children, R4.

Charles probably had a mix of emotions, not the least of which was guilt.

Maybe Margaret struggling to maintain her mammalian exterior? Sometimes the transformation from lizard to human form makes some movements painful or difficult. Bowing might’ve been out of the question, but she probably could’ve unhinged her jaw no problem.

[R5] I'm talking of his tears when he collected her body from France when he met President Jacques Chirac and his wife Bernadette. They were definitely tears of sorrow and anguish.

Behave!!! [R7] 😮

Diana was the media star and the beauty of the family, and that was hard for Margaret who had once been in those positions.

She does look ridiculous refusing to bow her head when even her sister did. That was always Margaret's problem--she never got over the fact that she was below her sister and was supposed to do what Elizabeth did, and looked childish and pretentious when she didn't.

Not to mention Diana’s lineage was superior to hers...

Because she was a Leo.

[R10] In some ways to me Princess Margaret seemed like a conflicted woman both someone who would insist on the respect and deference associated with royal status and tradition yet also being a royal rebel in her time. Up until Diana did the Panorama interview with the BBC Margaret and Diana remained close and on good terms. She even wrote to Prince Charles after he separated from Princess Diana to inform him she intended to keep up a personal relationship with Diana and not cut her off. That's why her obstinacy on the day of the funeral surprised me as they were close at one time.

Oh for heaven's sake -- Margaret will likely stewed to the gills and knew if she attempted to bow that she would continue to topple over.

It had happened way too many times for ol' Maggie to attempt a bow.

Drunk at that early time of day?! [R14]

Diana blew it. the monarchy has never recovered. Look who Harry is marrying.

Her mother, r16, had a pre-luncheon bracer and would continue to drink throughout the rest of the day – – and you dispute that Margaret wasn't stewed at a funeral procession?

What do you mean by never recovered [R16] To what extent has public support for the monarchy been permanently reduced Post Diana? Didn't some of Margarets behaviour in the 1970s damage the prestige and reputation of the Royal family?

R7 Margaret was having jaw problems or tooth pain that day.

R16 Yes. Harry is marrying mulatto, empty-headed disaster. I give it 5 years. Widdecombe was right. This new chocolate bimbo is a five-times-worse-Princess Di-loose cannon.

[R17] I feel sure that on days of funerals the Queen Mother wouldn't have been drunk or stewed or even started drinking until after the service.

Princess Margaret was a "nasty piece of work" F**KING Whore

Because she was a Princess Royal and Diana originally was no more than a Commoner despite her courtesy title of "Lady."

Let's not get into the historical issue of The Spencers having a better claim to the throne than those upstart Germans.

And the lesser issue that Margaret was just a faghag and a cunt.

The Queen Mother was a lush but not an alcoholic. I doubt she tippled before the funeral.

She was drunk and afraid that she would fall over.

I doubt that [R24]

Margaret was a butch. No one put out bouquets of flowers or did anything when she died.. She was a completely worthless and useless person who never accomplished a thing in her life. She did have a lovely daughter who was raised by nannies. Her son is a degenerate

[quote]Because she was a Princess Royal

No she was not. Margaret was never ever a Princess Royal.

When Margaret was born, her great-aunt Princess Louise, the Duchess of Fife, was Princess Royal until she died in 1931. That year George V, Maragret's grandfather, made his only daughter Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood, Princess Royal, a position she retained until she died in 1965. the position was then left vacant until 1987, when Queen Elizabeth II bestowed it upon her only daughter Princess Anne, who still holds it.

The Princess Royal is a title of distinction that can only be given to the eldest daughter of a sovereign. Margaret was never the eldest daughter of the sovereign.

I think R22 mean that she was a Royal Princess, not Princess Royal. I would add to the reply by R27 that there can only be one holder of the title Princess Royal at a time. Thus, Princess Elizabeth (later Queen Elizabeth II) was never Princess Royal, although she was the eldest daughter of the monarch, because her aunt, Mary, Countess of Harewood, Princess Royal, lived until after Elizabeth had herself acceded to the throne.

Camilla was like...

[quote] I think [R22] mean that she was a Royal Princess, not Princess Royal.

But Diana [italic]also[/italic] became a Royal Princess when she married Charles. In fact, between 1981, when she married Charles, and 1996, when she divorced him, she was not only a royal princess but as Princess of wales she outranked Margaret. Margaret had to curtsy to her.

I think you and r22 must actually mean that Margaret was [italic]a princess of the blood royal,[/italic] and Diana was not. That is true, but Diana still fully and completely outranked Margaret from age 19 when she was married until the last year of her life when the divorce was finalized.

I remember it was a big deal when the Queen bowed down to the coffin. The Queen isn't supposed to bow to anyone. The feeling was she had received such hatred for her handling of the death that she did it to pacify her critics.

Funny thing is that the Helen Mirren movie that chronicled the whole death left the bow out.

R27, of course you are correct. I stand corrected.

But Margaret was still a self-indulgent Princess Royal Cunt.

[quote]Let's not get into the historical issue of The Spencers having a better claim to the throne than those upstart Germans.

Well, I would like to read about that.

I'll be interested to see if or how The Crown covers this, since The Queen already did.

But why [R232] in this instance she'd got on fine less than two years previously with Diana and Diana had never personally said anything bad about Margaret?

What was Princess Margaret's attitude towards Wallis Simpson then when she died as I'm sure I read that Margaret was a lot less harsh and hardline on Wallis than her mother? Infact I think Princess Margaret met Edward Windsor and Wallis Simpson in New York or Washington in the early 1970s? I could be rembering that wrong.

So why did she have less of a grievance with Wallis Simpson than Princess Diana?

Diana stole her aging thunder, r35. Margaret's claim to fame had been as the beautiful rebel royal princess. By the time time Diana came along, she was little more than an aging royal has-been with a retinue of fag hags and gigolos.

Princess Margaret, tell us how old you are this year. (Margaret begins to stomp foot, one, two, three, four,............)

Sounds your saying in a nutshell that Princess Margaret was consumed by personal jealousy? [R36] The Queen I think even when Diana was alive was less harsh and negative towards her than both Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother were. Perhaps after years of feeling sidelined by her sisters status in the eyes of her mother, the affinity she felt siding with her mother in at least partial differences of opinion to the Queen over how to handle Diana felt 'good'. Because most of the time if there was a difference of opinion it was the Queen Mother and the Queen on one side and Margaret on the other.

In watching the video I think she just forgets or doesn't realize that she should have. Lots of people in the crowd don't bow.

All eyes where on the Queen at that moment anyway. They may have told the others not to bow so that the Queen's unusual breach of protocol would stand out more.

I don't think it was that [R39] as Prince Edward and Prince Andrew who were stood just behind her bowed as did the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra who were stood another row back. Similarly Princess Anne. Not sure if Margaret's son bowed.

Princess Margaret LOATHED Diana. It was well known in the inner-circle (of which I am a part).

R11 why would you make up this shit? You know that the lineage of them all is easily verifiable and Di’s family wasn’t older or higher or anything else. This isn’t secret, hidden information.

FYI Phil’s lineage can be traced back to tenth century Danish royalty.

OK [R41] I totally accept that but that wasn't always the case was it? I'm trying to figure out why she loathed her so much as she wrote to Prince Charles when they separated to inform him she wasn't going to cut Diana of and disown her? I think the Panorama interview was the turning point but surely she didn't have all of this enmity towards her because of that?

R37 I'll always remember.....

"The royal family are DOGS! Dogs, I tell you! I mean, just call out their names! Queenie, Duke and Prince! See who shows up! DOGS!"

Still miss Joan.

“the inner-circle (of which I am a part).”

Hence the reaction.

Princess Margaret was a cunt, pure and simple. She was a nasty piece of work, and everything she did reflected that.

To them, Di was an idiot who revealed unfavorable tidbits about the royals.

She probably knew that when she died, no one would give a shit. Margaret was right.

[quote] Princess Margaret, tell us how old you are this year. (Margaret begins to stomp foot, one, two, three, four,............) —Joan Molinsky Roseberg Rivers

You fucked up--that old Joan Rivers joke was about Princess [italic]Anne,[/italic] not Princess Margaret.

Unlike Anne, Margaret was not horse-faced; nor was she as obsessed with horses as Anne was (Anne competed in the Olympics in equestrian events).

I read somewhere that the Royal Family was shocked by the indifference in Britain when Margaret died. The public queue to pass by her coffin and sign the guestbook was quite sparse.

Wasn't everyone caught off guard by the Queen's bow and Margaret was probably thinking about her next drinkee poo.

No [R51] I don't reckon so as many others bowed including Princess Anne who was looking straight ahead and wouldn't have seen the Queen bow to then copy her. It seemed planned with all key members of the family told about it in advance. I can't believe they would not have told Princess Margaret in advance incase a look of horrified shock inadvertently transpired on her face when the Queen did bow. That would have been awful given the febrile atmosphere. I don't think they would have risked it.

All the royal family besides Margaret bowed their heads--the queen, Anne, Edward, etc.

No one gave a shit when Margaret died

No one cared and she's certainly not missed

DL should petition a new monarchy, by election. I nominate Elton John for Queen of the Queens.

I will now stand back and observe with a bag of popcorn.

Princess Margaret was a 'ho but she knew what was right and Diana was the EX-Potential Queen. They don't get bows. Margaret knew what was right. QEII knew what was right but she also knows to give in, IF it suits her popularity.

[quote]It's easy to forget as we watch them now, how young they were when it happened.

You make it sound like they were the only ones to lose their mother at an early age. Millions of people have had this happen and they manage to cope quite nicely and they certainly don't have the extra advantages the royals have.

Exactly r57. Millions of people have had a parent die or been completely orphaned in horrific circumstances, much, much worse than drunk driver car crash but in the febrile imaginations of the Di-loons somehow the two privileged, wealthy princes have suffered more.

Don't you have far more important things to worry about, like King Donald of Rump running your country even further into the ground, and deeper in debt ? Or the infamous Anti-Mexican wall ? Or the huge military parade he wants to have to hostage North Korea ? What fools ! What hypocrites !

r59, nice attempt at being snarky...

The OP is clearly British [R59]

A fight among welfare families--always fun

According to this article anyway Princess Margaret hated Diana and considered the reaction to her death as just as hysterical as Diana herself was in personality.

^^^she wasn’t wrong. I was embarrassed for some people the way they were behaving over a manipulative, privileged and rather stupid woman they’d never met.

[quote] ...considered the reaction to her death as just as hysterical

Interesting.

I read somewhere that President Truman and President Eisenhower both thought that huge funeral for JFK was way overblown and not at all appropriate for someone of JFK's limited accomplishments. True, of course. But then the Kennedys were master manipulators.

Margot was drunk. Margot was often drunk. At least she didn't try and fuck one of the mourners.

Who did that [R66]??!!! 😮

She may have been told to bow but if she was indeed drunk she may have not remembered she was supposed to.

R65, I read somewhere that Jackie insisted JFK's funeral be as similar to Lincoln's as possible.

We've discussed Margaret here before, and pretty much agreed that she was an awful creature. But, as an old man, I can reflect that she was a very bright star at one time: beautiful, reputedly witty and talented, with a huge potential. Yet she was almost the polar opposite of her older sister. It's not a nice thing to watch someone with so much potential turn into a bitter, unhealthy person. Her last years were pretty awful, after her scalding accident, and the strokes she suffered. And it was sad that the British people so clearly didn't have fond memories of her.

I read that she was supportive of Diana until she started doing television interviews. In fact, the Royals pretty much collectively were finished with her because of those, since Diana was clearly not afraid to damage 'The Firm'. Diana and Margaret both lived at Kensington Palace, and Margaret learned to pay attention to an ill-fitting manhole cover that alerted her when Diana was attempting to 'sneak into' Kensington Palace. No wonder Diana found Kensington Palace to be such an oppressive place to live. They're both dead now, so I won't insult either of them now.

I'd like to offer another perspective. Margaret was very ill and probably over-medicated, so she was not thinking straight. I also think she didn't realize it until it was too late. Either that, or in her mind, rank & protocol dictated that she did not bow to Diana, and she didn't give a fuck who else did.

[quote]Either that, or in her mind, rank & protocol dictated that she did not bow to Diana,

But in reality, didn't Diana, even though divorced, still outrank Margaret as she was the mother of the future King?

She was ill in 1997? [R71] I thought her stroke wasn't until February 1998?

No r72. As the ex wife of a prince she wouldn’t outrank a princess of the blood royal regardless of children.

The Queen’s bow was an ill-mannered head duck that gave off an FU air.

margaret had cancer and she had emphysema. A stroke was the least of it.

See. People don't think. They get a bad diagnosis of cancer or COPD, or WTF ever and they say, "Fuck it! I'm going to do what I want and I don't give a fuck because it'll just kill me quicker." But instead you have a debilitating stroke and linger like a vegetable in a fucking wheelchair peeing on yourself.

What kind of cancer did she have [R76]? I've never heard that mentioned before bar a brief speculative piece on GMTV breakfast show in around 2000.

[quote] But in reality, didn't Diana, even though divorced, still outrank Margaret as she was the mother of the future King?

She still had precedence above her, yes.

From the Buckingham palace press release after the divorce of Charles and Diana:

[quote] The Princess of Wales, as the mother of Prince William, will be regarded by The Queen and The Prince of Wales as being a member of the Royal Family.

[quote] It has been agreed that her style and title will be Diana, Princess of Wales. She may retain any orders, insignia and other titles, consistent with her being known as Diana, Princess of Wales.

[quote] As she will be regarded as a member of the Royal Family, The Princess will from time to time receive invitations to State and national public occasions, as for any other member of the Royal Family, at the invitation of The Sovereign or the Government. [bold]On these occasions The Princess will be accorded the precedence she enjoys at present.[/bold]

Interesting, R74. I thought I read somewhere else that he held some sort of rank as being William's mother. Thanks.

So Diana did in fact still outrank Margaret.

Oh for God's sake, just DIE!

I keep thinking of snowdon referring to M as looking like jewish manicurist...

[quote] I read somewhere that the Royal Family was shocked by the indifference in Britain when Margaret died. The public queue to pass by her coffin and sign the guestbook was quite sparse.

She'd burned every bridge that existed. And by the time of her passing, she'd lived largely out of the spotlight for years.

Her health began to fail in 1991, she had three strokes over the years and a cancer scare. her lungs were fucked up. Chronic bronchitis, pneumonia, etc. all the signs of COPD. Even after they removed tissue from her lungs (it proved to be benign) she continued heavy smoking and drinking.

How much is the Queens estate worth? I'm curious as to what exactly Charles will be inheriting from his mother once shes gone.

A kingdom, R85, for what it's worth.

Remember, Diana did a vicious interview with the press that was played on the Queen's wedding anniversary. Many forget that. Margaret is what the Queen would have been if not for becoming Queen.

Fuck Di. Liz has been consistent. Not Di. Marauding and using Arabs to spite Liz. I would have spit on her coffin the dumb big nose, bug eyed damsly bitch.

Everyone fantasized at one point about being British monarchy while they were fantasizing what is was like to be you if you were extremely attractive. Both cases given at birth and hereditary. I'll take the latter any day.

Do you mean the Panorama interview [R87]? Which part do you feel was most vicious?

The great English-Catholic writer Evelyn Waugh retails a story from Irish-Catholic Frank Pakenham, Earl of Longford that the dying King George VI harboured a wish that the beautiful 22 year old Princess Margaret had the glamour and sex appeal to arouse the Irish to bury their differences and reunite with her as their glamorous young queen.

Of course, it all sounds like poppycock now. But think upon Bonnie Prince Charlie, Mary Queen of Scots and William and Mary, outsiders who used sentiment and glamour to sway the incumbent fools.

Intriguing [R90] She certainly was beautiful. Movie star looks.

Elizabeth was beautiful back in '53. Many people made the comparison between the young queen and that young woman from Hollywood who bore the same name.

Of course any goodwill between the Royal Family and Liz Taylor was destroyed when some fool thought MGM's dire film "Beau Brummell" should be presented as the Royal Film Performance of1954.

Not only is it a very boring, scrappy film but it presented the Prince of Wales and King George as two dribbling idiots.

I'm sorry but Margaret was not movie star beautiful. That's really stretching it. Royals are very basic in the looks department. Hollywood stars especially way back when. Were stunning and striking to look at. The royals not so much. She just couldn't compete with anyone in Hollywood.

She was our beloved aunt and our beloved cunt.

That picture at R90 looks like Uma Thurman in pearls.

That loss of goodwill you mention R93 must have been healed in the year 2000 when The Palace gave a gong to "Dame Liz".

Margaret was a whore. At least Diana didn't have to resort to fucking her husband with a strap-on.

Cool

Margaret used to party with Mick Jagger and John Phillips. Didn't she attempt to jump from a church bell tower once? She thought she was a royal bird and planned to sweep over the countryside in Surrey.

I’m surprised Marg didn’t hurl a gob of spit.

Diana was a stupid slut who only cared about how she presented, & did almost everything she could to take the Royal Family down with her.

Marg was also slut but, she knew decorum, and publicly supported her sister, as The Crown, whatever went on in private.

R98, No that job was left to Camilla !!

because she was so drunk she would have fallen over

The stroked out drunken hag barely knew where she was- only that she wasn't holding a drink.

I do like the "character" of Mags as performed on The Crown. Much more fun than ol' Liz.

I think Margaret had an intellectual curiosity that was never nurtured, and she was trying to find her purpose and the point of it all, and at the same time was completely aware of her position as a royal and expected her due. This became even more important after Elizabeth ascended. Margaret was at war with herself, wanting to discover and be part of a larger world and yet toting the baggage of her Royalty with her because it became ever more important as her sense of inferiority began to dominate.

Like many children born second (at one time, she was the "spare" and Elizabeth was the "heir"), she had a lot of issues. She was quite the snob (even more than the Queen) and if anyone got too familiar and informal with her, she would pull rank. I think it was her way of compensating for not being as important as her older sister.

She was vivacious and somewhat naughty when she was a young girl while the Queen was serious and studious (thank God the sister with the character most suitable for the sovereign position was born first). Her mother and father indulged Margaret and she was quite spoiled.

Margaret probably thought Diana did a lot of damage to the monarchy and didn't deserve a bow. By that time, she didn't care what anyone thought.

[quote] Margot was drunk. Margot was often drunk. At least she didn't try and fuck one of the mourners.

You don't know that. She may have tried to fuck one of the mourners

[quote] I read that she was supportive of Diana until she started doing television interviews. In fact, the Royals pretty much collectively were finished with her because of those, since Diana was clearly not afraid to damage 'The Firm'.

Really? then you have a problem with your reading and retention skills. She gave one interview. And she only gave that interview AFTER CHARLES GAVE A TV INTERVIEW where he said he'd been cheating on Diana and loved Camilla (also know to the world as the woman whose tampon Charles wanted to become). Charles is the reason there is any damage to the throne

He essentially moved his mistress into Charles & Diana's home. Diana would go there for the weekend and 20 minutes after she left, Camilla came over to spend the week with Charles, Camilla acted like she was the lady of the house (she ignored her kids too)

Before Charles admitted to the ENTIRE WORLD that he was cheating, he had his friends go on talk shows, news programs and give newspaper interviews telling everyone that Princess Diana was mentally ill because she had some bizarre notion that Prince Charles was cheating on her with camilla parker bowles. The men (like Nicholas soames) said it was entirely untrue and a fantasy of Diana's . Charles and the parker bowles woman were nothing more than friends. But now we now, she wasn't imagining anything. It was all true and they were all a bunch of fucking liars. And yes Diana cheated too, but she did it privately. She didn't have her boyfriend around all the time like Charles had Camilla around. She didn't move anyone into their home

No, she only stalked and harassed multiple times per day the wives of all the many, many married men she fucked r109.

[R110] I seem to recall that the blame for that was attempted to be put on a young lad saying he was a prank caller as I recall?

I wonder who loathed and was the most harsh and hardline in their heart towards Princess Diana? Princess Margaret or the Queen Mother?

[quote]The Queen was bewildered and caught up by the mood of suspicion as to what had caused the accident. Her first comment, upon being told of Diana's death, was to say: "Someone must have greased the brakes." It was an extraordinary remark for the Queen to make and it astounded her staff when they came to hear of it, which most had by the time the dawn broke over Balmoral's wooded hills.

[quote]Back in the capital, the Queen drove straight to Buckingham Palace and, with Prince Philip at her side, left the safety of her own forecourt and went out to mingle with the heaving throng gathered beyond the flower-covered railings. It proved to be a disconcerting experience for the 71-year-old sovereign. A chasm had opened between the governed and their governors, and instead of the respect and polite applause which had been her due all her life, she was surrounded by people whose animosity was blatant. "About bloody time, too," someone said. "That gave the Queen quite a turn," one of her staff remarked later. "What do they want me to do?" she asked. No one could remember ever seeing the Queen so agitated, so unsure of herself.

[quote]She was more her usual self by the time she went on television that evening to deliver her valedictory to her dead daughter-in-law. Sitting against an open window of the palace, with the crowds on the street providing the backdrop, she spoke simply and movingly in a voice an octave lower than the cut-glass tinkle of her youth and in an accent which had been stripped of some of its upper-class resonance.

[quote]It was a speech loaded with subtly coded messages. It offered an explanation for what to many had seemed the royal family's indifference to the death of a young woman who was being elevated to secular sainthood. "We have all been trying in our different ways to cope," the Queen said, adding, by way of apology: "It is not easy to express a sense of loss, since the initial shock is often succeeded by a mixture of other feelings: disbelief, incomprehension, anger and concern for all who remain.

[quote]As she walked off the makeshift set she asked: "Was that contrite enough?" It was not a question. It was a joke, but one delivered without a trace of humour.

The Queen's bow was really sort of a master stroke, in trying to turn the debacle of Diana's death and the Royals' muted reaction around.

I do suspect [R113] that Tony Blairs minions such as Alastair Campbell bullied the royals especially the Queen although that arguably some would say helped to save them at a time of national crisis.

R114 That Alastair Campbell is the complete slime.

He is as insidious as a foul-smelling snake.

He was revolting in the 80s and he has the audacity to stay around and pollute current political discourse with his slug-like slimy-ness

He will forever be tainted by various events from 2003 [R115]

I don't think the royal family were too keen on the Blairs and their associates/crew. I suspect they liked Gordon Brown better character wise.

[quote]In her 45 years on the throne, the Queen had dealt with ten prime ministers, starting with Sir Winston Churchill. She had got on well with some, less well with others, and the new occupant of 10 Downing Street, Tony Blair, fell firmly into the latter category. "Too much too quickly", was her unguarded summary of her current prime minister.

[quote]Blair had been at Northolt military airfield in West London to greet the plane bearing Diana's coffin, draped in a Royal Standard. On the Sunday, he had issued a statement which sounded more American than British in its wording. It read in part: "We are a nation in a state of shock, in mourning, in grief… She was a wonderful and warm human being."

[quote]But it was the soundbite in the last sentence that really caught the nation's attention: Diana, the prime minister declared, was "the People's Princess". That was the headline in most of the newspapers delivered to the castle on Monday morning and the phrase struck a resounding chord in the hearts and minds of millions who had never even met Diana.

[quote]They knew little about her other than what they read in the newspapers they professed to disbelieve, yet had come to see her as one of their own. The Queen was not amused, to put it mildly. She disliked the title "People's Princess" and the implicit challenge it posed to her position as the Queen of all her people.

[quote]It soon became abundantly clear, however, that it was the government and not the family she had once been a member of that knew best how to deal with Diana in death.

[quote]In London and borne to power by the biggest electoral victory in Labour's history, the Blair administration could sense and see what the royal family, out of touch in rural Scotland, could not; they recognised the mass hysteria her demise had caused. Flowers were left in front of the gates of Buckingham Palace and on park lawns in front of Kensington Palace where she had lived. They grew into fields and then into vast savannahs. Trees and lamp-posts were ringed with candles. Notes, teddy bears, gifts, photographs and handwritten verses of poetry were pinned to railings. Churches which had stood virtually empty for years were filled with people on their knees praying for her soul. It was a spectacle that was both childish and moving, part Beatlemania, part national mourning and decidedly un-British.

No, it's pretty clear that Blair forced the Queen's hand in this case. They already had a rather frosty relationship. Then again, the sad thing about the whole episode (outside the obvious death of a princess) is the Her Majesty is not what one would consider gaffe-prone, so I don't think she was prepared for the reaction she would face when she returned to London.

No wonder [R117] that Prince William didn't invite Tony Blair to his wedding in 2011. The feelings about this era Clearly run deep and strong.

Tony Blair is now known as 'Tony Bliar' and 'The Warmonger' to both sides of the political divide.

He is as slimy as Campbell R115

The Queen Mother had areal soft spot for Charles. He was her darling boy and her favorite grandchild. He spent a lot of time with her gossiping and confiding in her and she adored him. So when you ask who was harsher on Diana, Queen Mother Elizabeth has my vote. She probably didn't judge Charles so harshly for his "indiscretions" with Camilla, as much as she was upset with his foolishness in having all the bad publicity. So infidelity was acceptable as long as no one knew. But Diana running to the press, writing books, giving interviews in both print and TV, was definitely not acceptable. The Queen Mother was old school.

But [R120] Didn't Charles have friends give interviews too kind of on his behalf thus also breaking the old school rules on discretion?

As time went on, Princess Margaret was not a fan of Sarah, Duchess of York, which is another reason to like Sarah.

I've read the that Princess Margaret was supportive of Princess Diana after her marriage to Prince Charles, and tried to give her guidance, and was still supportive when the separation was announced. But, as R120 indicates, Prince Charles had an especially close relationship with the Queen Mother. Once Princess Diana gave that devastating television interview, the Royals pretty much collectively wrote Diana off. That interview is what prompted the Queen to write to Charles and Diana to go forward with a divorce. And it was after that that Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother washed their hands of Diana. Diana had made it clear she was ready to tackle the whole 'Firm' through unflatteringy publicity.

The Queen herself attempted to maintain a cordial relationship with Diana, and still has one with the Duchess of York. She invites Fergie to visit her....but only when Prince Philip is away, since he's washed his hands of her. Prince Philip was also quite supportive of Princess Diana, until she started giving interviews. He still walked behind her carriage during the funeral, though. Hopefully, he can behave if he runs into the Duchess of York at Harry's marriage.

[quote]It's easy to forget as we watch them now, how young they were when it happened.

[quote]You make it sound like they were the only ones to lose their mother at an early age. Millions of people have had this happen and they manage to cope quite nicely and they certainly don't have the extra advantages the royals have.

[quote]Exactly R57. Millions of people have had a parent die or been completely orphaned in horrific circumstances, much, much worse than drunk driver car crash but in the febrile imaginations of the Di-loons somehow the two privileged, wealthy princes have suffered more.

I don't remember anyone saying they have suffered more than others have and having "extra advantages" doesn't make mourning any easier. Most children's mothers' deaths aren't played over and over again on TV and they don't grow up in the public eye where they're regularly asked questions about her. I realize most DLers aren't known for having sympathy, but surely you can understand that.

Apres ER2, le deluge

I met the Queen once, I didn't know what to do—do you bow, do you curtsy, do you give her a tiparillo? The only place I'd seen her was on a stamp, so I went up and licked the back of her head.

I felt sorry for the boys walking behind their mother's cortege in front of an audience of billions at such a tough time. Usually in royal funerals, the chief mourners are all adults.

Plus what r124 said.

Agreed [R124] Grief doesn't respect class, privilege or income. It affects us all and in William's and Harry's case there's the added factor of everyone having an opinion on your family situation and history.

There's a brilliant two part documentary on Princess Margaret on BBC iplayer in the UK. Well worth a watch. I don't know if it's been screened or made available via BBC America.

Because she was a bitter bitch, that's why.

In "99 Glimpses of Princess Margaret" (which is pretty much required DL reading), Craig Brown notes that Margaret had been big pals with Diana for years, but then turned on her very suddenly when the public noted Diana's marriage began to fail (even BEFORE the famous "Queen of Hearts" interview with Martin Bashir on TV). What made it all the more insane is of course Margaret was the first one to get huge publicity in the royal family for a failing marriage and the first one in the inner royal family even to divorce--yet she stigmatized Diana for getting a divorce when she would have been furious if she herself had been stigmatized that way fifteen years earlier. it was like she was enacting on Diana what she secretly felt she deserved.

She behaved so badly about it that she refused to acknowledge Diana when they passed one another in the Kensington palace compound where they both lived, and even actively encouraged her own son to hide from Diana if their paths should cross.

I am not a huge Diana fan--she was a hysterical dramatizing loony--but Margaret was even worse, because she was actively cruel in exercising her hypocrisy.

It's also insane that Margaret would think herself too proud and too important to bow to Diana when her sister, who as sovereign not only outranks her but is the source of any importance ever given to Margaret, did it right next to her. That was just like Margaret. She hated that she was so useless and was incredibly insecure, so to overcompensate she would demand special treatment her sister would always forego.

Craig Brown makes the case that her close circle took so much delight in complaining about her bad behavior that they always invited her back: and some level they WANTED her to act like a bitch (within reason, of course) because she had to be the first to leave a party (as court etiquette demanded) if she were the only royal there, so they could remain behind to delight in mocking her rude behavior.

One if the things that I hope both Charles and William think about when they become kings is how to take care of royal siblings so they actually have a role in life. I think one of the reasons Margaret and Andrew (and to some degree Edward) have been so rotten and ill-behaved is because they have no role. Anne has a strong work ethic and threw herself into opening Tescos, but even she's incredibly sour; Harry's had some fuck-up moments, but has pretty much worked hard doing good PR work that doesn't benefit him (unlike his Uncle Andrew). Bad royal behavior always stems from when royals have no purpose in their lives and no ambition.

Is there a reason why someone like Harry can't get a real job?

Define real job '[R134] Some royals like Princess Anne work very hard.

Because she knew it was bull shit for her to bow. The Queen only did it calculatingly to appease the public (not that there's anything wrong with that - she did what she HAD to do).

Who cares about this nasty dead peice of work, how is her son a degenerate?

actual footage of OP

^Dude in yellow shirt is secretly delighted by the news. Look at that smile. He must have been craving some ANY excitement.

Princess Anne did NOT bow her head when Diana's coffin rode by.

The Royal Family should have been guillotined years ago.

Meg was just a bitch and everyone knew it. She once got into an argument with her mother, the Queen Mum, and she ended it by saying something like "Actual royal blood runs in my veins and you are a commoner."

LOL Princess Margaret Rose was the original bad girl.

She was out having a blast whoring around whilst Elizabeth had to repair jeeps in the war and look respectable.

She should be a DL legend.

Princess Margaret was the one member of the family who really went out of her way to support Diana at the beginning of her marriage to Charles. The course of events including Diana's cooperation with the Morton book and then the tell-all interview with Bashir on television was the final straw. Diana's disloyalty to the royal family was something Margaret took personally because she sided with Diana many times in the early years. Margaret felt betrayed and at the end, she hated Diana for it. This was confirmed after Margaret's death by one of the Bowes-Lyon cousins and later by a couple of members of the Mountbatten family.

Margaret was a fucking high and mighty snob. She bought into that bullshit that the royal family was designated to reign by God. It was just an nonsense excuse for her to act badly and rudely toward others.

Margaret DID bow. Inwardly.

r143 The Queen's knowledge of vehicle maintenance may have prompted her "someone must have greased the brakes" comment, as noted upthread.

Drunk or high.