Lucille Ball: One Cheap Bitch

"Once, Gary Morton was at home" Jane Connell recalls, "when a very elaborate lobster all cut up beautifully was taken over to him, and Lucy said, "Don't worry, he's the only one having that- we're having leftovers".

Once Lucy was going to serve Folgers coffee crystals to her guests instead of the generic brand, but Gary Morton talked her out of it.

I don't understand the point of being very rich if you can't be generous.

Does one just sit alone at night, counting one's gold?

Lucy was a major alcoholic basket case.

She was always very troubled by her career and marriage.

Egomanicas like that believe that their employees should pay them for the privilege to work for them and be around them all the time and take in all the creative juices and that raw, powerful energy.

[quote]Does one just sit alone at night counting one's gold?

No, one buys the rights to MAME.

I think the costume designer they hired to replace Jennsen was for $15 less than the raise she'd been asking for, or something.

Petty, crap employer.

I remember that old story about Gary Morton being in charge of the construction of a new "European Street" set for Desilu Studios, and with the TV industry not wanting to spend too much money in the early '70s, he decided to save a few pennies by slightly scaling down the proportions. Scaled too much and they were unusable. Every actor looked liked a giant. It had to be scrapped. It was a huge embarrassment not just for him, but for Lucy for allowing him to oversee such a thing. It actually sounds like something from an episode of I LOVE LUCY, come to think of it. Just substitute Gary in for Viv.

[italic]"I have an everyday religion that works for me. Love yourself first, and everything else falls into line."[/italic] (Lucille Ball)

She could have added, "And remember, everyone else is replaceable."

TV was really done on the cheap in those days. They figured no one watch it after it aired. That was probably industry standard really.

It was a HIT SHOW. You can bet Lucy and Desi were raking it in.

No such luck for their employees, unfortunately.

#Justice ForElois

She was always tight about money. That's why she turned down NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. They wanted her to play a bumbling but lovable zombie but wanted her pay her own makeup and clothing costs. Gary told her that was beneath her.

You'd think she's be thrilled to be able to charge for doing her own.

Still, [italic]What might have been - - [/italic]

Light the can---dles

Turn the lights OFF

Get the ramen noodles OUT

Roll the rug back up

It's today.

Though it may not be anyone's payday And you're far from the first person hired I know that this very minute has some savings in it YOU'RE FIRED!

Oh damn....my lyric should have been

[quote]"And you're far from the LAST person hired"

LINE?!?!

Lucy’s iconic outfits came in the middle seasons, not the first two years. S1 wardrobe is quite drab for Lucy and inconsistent for Ethyl. The drawings shown at R1 are not from the first two years so I’m not clear on OP’s statement.

R1 appear to be costumes Jenssen did for Ball for the film LURED. They had a history together.

To save money Desilu made me stand behind things

Not iconic, my ass!

R21 They let you keep the baby instead of selling it, at least!

R17 and R18 - no one knows what you're talking about

Everyone knows. He's talking about the lyrics from It's Today from Lucy's beloved classic, MAME.

R25

R17=R18=R26=R27

I'm R26 and I'm not any of the others.

Did Desi have sizemeat?

Verificatia?

She was generous with Ricky Ricardo's Cuban foreskin.

There are many threads on that.

I always thought her iconic "pants skirt" was ridiculous, cheap looking and not at all flattering to her figure.

It looks like something a little gayling would wear when dressing up like his mommy.

$50 then would be about $600 today

[quote] TV was really done on the cheap in those days. They figured no one watch it after it aired. That was probably industry standard really.

Actually, Desi knew that there was money to be made in reruns, which is why, in 1951, they negotiated to keep the rights to I LOVE LUCY. In 1957, Desliu sold the rights back to CBS for 4 million dollars.

With regards to Desilu's purchase of RKO studios, which made them the second-largest independent television production company in the U.S at the time, in his autobiography, A BOOK, Desi talks about how he felt a moral obligation to all the people who had started with them at the beginning , and how he didn't feel it was right if he and Lucy were to cash out and leave everyone else to fend for themselves.

If you have any interest at all in the development of early television, his book is an fascinating read.

[quote] Costume designer Eloise Jenssen established the look of the show, and did the clothes for the first two years. When she asked for a $50 raise, Lucy fired her.

According to Bart Andrews, who literally wrote the book on I LOVE LUCY:

[quote} In 1951, Lucille Ball approached Jenssen and asked her if she would be interested in designing costumes for a new situation comedy she and her husband Desi Arnaz were readying for CBS. Under exclusive contract to 20th Century Fox at the time, she was unable to accept the offer, but after leaving the studio to freelance, she spent a season designing clothing for Ann Sothern on Private Secretary, then contacted Ball to see if the position on I Love Lucy was available. She was hired at $100 per episode, considerably less than her feature film salary, one week before the filming of the 1953-54 season began, and the following season her salary increased to $150. When she held out for $200 the next year, cost-conscious executives at Desilu replaced her.

So R19 is right, 'the look' did not come in the first seasons, but in the show's middle years.

Someone posted on another thread that they saw Lucy and her entourage as a young gayling in some discount fabric store in L.A., and Lucy was wearing the cheapest polyester pantsuit and picked out a hideous fabric that she told someone her 'decorator' was having curtains made out of. If anyone can find that post, it's worth it's weight in gold.

The cheapest people in the world tend to be the old money types with generational wealth and rich people who have a paranoia about being poor again. It sounds like Lucy was saving for a rainy day that would never come. She made enough money to take care of generations of her family.

I posted this before, but Lucy decorated her house with cast-off furniture from various Lucy shows.

The only 2 rooms in the house that looked good was Gary's office and dressing area. Both wood paneled and beautiful. The rest of the place hadn't been touched since she bought it. The maid's room was particularly grisly- bed, ironing board and a dresser with a TV. Looked like a prison cell.

And they call me a bitch.

Well, Joan dear, you did have that troublesome little habit of coming on to your revolving door of nannies and assistants when drunk, so...

All lies R41.

She was an entrepreneur!

Major cunt

Here's some interesting look into the salaries of actors, extras and other employees on the ILL set. Not sure where they yourtuber got the info, but take it for what it's worth.

Lucille McGillicuddy is [italic]not[/italic] a descamisado!

And I'm the dame who can prove it.

Meeting her in person was way worse than this video- she put the C in cunt. Humorless and so bitter.

She was a legendary booze hound

Did she cheap out on the hooch as well?

Not for herself. It's the guests that got gasoline poured into cheap crystal decanters.

r38

Lucy would often tell stories about how "poor" she was. I don't doubt she wasn't being totally truthful, but she always made it sound like she was the only actress to be that poor. I'm sure it affected her in later life, when she had money.

She said that while she always got by her finances weren't stable until she started doing her hit radio show and the money was regular. So perhaps she went through periods where she did well from her movies then had lean times till the next movie came about. Desi was known to be a big spender on booze and women so that could factor it in.

I know Desi said Lucy had farm animals on their California home (an inspiration later adopted into the I Love Lucy show in Connecticut, but that Lucy refused to kill them and so they had old chickens and made no money.

[quote]It's the guests that got gasoline poured into cheap crystal decanters.

...stolen from the HERE'S LUCY set.

[quote]R50 Lucy would often tell stories about how "poor" she was...she always made it sound like she was the only actress to be that poor.

Well, she did arrive in Hollywood without even a stitch of clothing....

I think she got ticketed.

r52

She probably was poor but so what? There were a boat load of other actors and actresses that were just as poor as if not more so. She just made it sound like she was the only one.

She was a cute baby, and that's the best I can say about her.

When one of her best friends doesn't have much nice to say, that pretty much tells you everything.

How the hell did Vivian Vance stand working with Lucy all those years?

Did Elois design these?

R57 Oh dear! (shudder) I don't know.

But she did do the dress Lucy's wearing...

R57: Well she could wear them to all those chic dinner parties she gets invited to!

Lucy started out as a fashion model for the designer Hattie Carnegie in New York. Though a notoriously sour, picklepuss monster, she did always wear clothes well.

r54, is she wearing tannis root?

R61 Tannis, anyone?

My mom's friend was a "Password" champ. She said Lucy was the WORST person to be partnered with (drunk) and Tony Randall was BEST because he WANTED TO WIN.

I'd like to see a cage fight between a drunk, elderly Lucy and a drunk, fat Liz Taylor...

But you all have to realize that when Lucy was making ILL she could have no idea how long the show would last or if there would even be any desire for re-runs. Re-runs hadn't been invented yet.

When Lucy began ILL she had a 20 year career of almost constant mediocrity and indifference. Of course she was insecure about where the money was going. And when she divorced Desi and they stopped playing those characters she must have certainly felt a terrible dread that audiences would never accept her in another role.

Give Lucy a break!

Can i stop following the Lucille Ball being a cunt on Dick Cavett thread now? Is this the new Lucy thread?

TIA!

Yes, OP.

Hitchcock and Lucy.

They're ALWAYS associated in my mind. SO similar in so many ways.

MIss Ball, if I make it any redder people are going to ask you where Raggedy Andy is.

Lucy, with other Desilu employees who dared to ask for a raise:

An acquaintance of mine (long gone) always loved to tell his favorite Lucy story. He went to a cocktail party at her house, and someone was passing a tray of meatballs. He took 2 and the server said "Miss Ball has allowed only 2 per person". My friend said to the guy "Fuck Miss Ball". He matched her drink for drink, lol.

Miss Ball will be issuing no treats this year...

Give Lucy a break???? The old bitch made millions of dollars, and she had a very successful career in entertainment. She was a cold, selfish, petty, mean spirited cunt. Just because she had hard knocks in life does not justify the way she treated people. If she were anyone else but the adored Lucy and she acted this way, she’d be vilified. Her star image was far from the real Lucille Ball. No wonder Desi fucked around on her. How in the hell could he fuck an iceberg?

I've had SUFFICENT.

I would like to hear more things about Tony Randall that are fun to think about.

I'm not the normal corrector, buts it's I HAVE SUFFICIENT. Not I'VE.

Lucille Balls

R33, I think some of the pants-skirt outfits we're done by repurposing older outfits she no longer could wear. I remember someone pointing out that a flowered dress from Long Long Trailer was later used as a hostess dress on ILL. Must have been a money saver.

[quote]And when she divorced Desi and they stopped playing those characters she must have certainly felt a terrible dread that audiences would never accept her in another role.

And they didn't. Her first major project after ILL and The Comedy Hour were over was the Broadway musical Wildcat (Hey, Look Me Over was the big hit song from the show). During rehearsals and after the show opened for previews out of town, she tried very hard to create an original character. Audience response and word of mouth was lukewarm and sales were slow. Both Lucy and the creatives knew what the problem was and Lucy was an old pro who understood what had to be done for a hit, which Lucy desperately craved at that point. So the little mannerisms, the spider, etc. gradually worked their way into her performances and the audiences ate it up. It wasn't Lucille Ball who opened in New York but Lucy Ricardo.

The show was a hit but eventually closed early. Lucy's voice gave out doing 8 shows a week after her years of smoking and drinking.

Well, Broadway doesn't go for BOOOOOOZE an' dope....

" Lucy's voice gave out doing 8 shows a week after her years of smoking and drinking."

And HOW!

OMG how old are you people. Who cares about any of this now?

I'm just 36! And have been for almost 10 years!

Because we Love Lucy. And I'm 54, but due to my skin care regime look 35!

I could understand stanning forever about ones affection for Lucy (she was pretty great) but whats the point in 2018 of ragging on her for being cheap or a drunk.

It's fun. Are you new here?

OK, I get it. Well Julia Baron was complete two-faced bitch, who lived to get sodomised by Hungarian dick.

Tard alert

[quote]How the hell did Vivian Vance stand working with Lucy all those years?

Vivian was famous for the quote: "If this thing [I Love Lucy] becomes a hit, I'm gonna learn to love that bitch.

And evidently she did, because Lucie Arnaz said that Vivian Vance and Ann Sothern were the only two people who could successfully stand up to Lucy.

Did her pussy stink?

r90 No, the henna rinse on her pubes covered up the smell.

Thank God for henna!

R82 I'm 64, but guys in their 20s are always hitting on me.

If you hate this threat so much, how cum you read all the way down to R82.

Home come a 64 yo spells come "cum". Do you drop it into IMs to turn on your twink admirers?

It’s just baffling to me that the most popular, recognized and beloved star worldwide of all time is so vilified here. Methinks it’s a bunch of sour and brittle alcoholics themselves who are projecting their pitiable self-hatred onto the iconic Miss Ball. I always say that my litmus text for a bf is if they adore I Love Lucy. If not, they are kicked to the curb as it bespeaks a disturbing lack of humor or understanding of the foibles of humanity.

R65: Her entire career was based on mediocrity. Her performance in Stage Door really isn't much different from her "Lucy" character, it just lacks the tics she added on tv. R82: It matters because even long after her death , she gets kudos and devotion she never deserved. Ann Sothern and Donna Reed were involved in production long before she was and she wound up being a caretaker head of Desllu as a rental lot until she brought in someone to develop new shows. As a performer, she never really evolved , probably couldn't very much (her range was limited) and her public probably didn't want it. She spent her declining years complaining bitterly about the film career she never had.

People who use the word "methinks" should be taken out into the back yard and shot.

I'm sorry, r87, but that slutty ham Julia was never more than the poor man's Hortense Schneider.

I hate people like that. You're given the gift of a show being a phenomenal hit, be happy and share the wealth.

And I love ILL but Ball sounds like an absolute nightmare as a person.

Is it really shown everywhere though r95? I don’t think it was broadcast internationally and she really isn’t a big deal in the rest of the Anglophone world. Is it one of those oddities that she’s popular in Tajikistan or somewhere?

It was broadcast all over the world- I'm not sure about now.

It got me wondering r101 so I looked but I can’t find any reference to international broadcasting. It’s unimportant really but I wonder if any UK or Europeans can confirm if Lucy is/was popular there because she seems to be really only in the North American cultural psyche.

According to Wikipedia, ILL was one of the first American TV shows shown in the UK beginning in 1955 on the then new ITV and is currently syndicated in over 40 countries worldwide, usually dubbed into the local language if necessary.

In how many languages can you say "I have sufficient"?

[quote]Lucille McGillicuddy is not a descamisado!

Made me think of Lucy and Desi in a production of "Evita". "Don't cry for me Argentina...WAAAAAAAH"

I love those costume sketches.

"complaining bitterly about the film career she never had" Huh?

The Big Street

DuBarry was a Lady

Easy to Wed

Miss Grant Takes Richmond

The Fuller Brush Girl

Fancy Pants

The Long Long Trailer

Critic's Choice

Yours Mine and Ours

Lucy had some nice hits. Who did she see herself as, Grace Kelly?

Lucy was Larry's girlfriend, she couldn't be the girlfriend of the funny one or the main one, that shows what she's really made of.

and always...the drinking.

[quote]The old bitch made millions of dollars, and she had a very successful career in entertainment. She was a cold, selfish, petty, mean spirited cunt.

And apparently sunshine shoots out of your ass as you're calling a complete stranger a cunt.

She wasn't cheap in the sense of dollars, she was cheap in the sense of virtue. She had like 13 abortions.

did lucy or desi ever wear shants?

R110 = new to the Datalounge

"Methinks"

Ithinks you have an odd bodkin!

[quote]R110 you're calling a complete stranger a cunt.

Well publicized celebs aren't complete strangers to the public. A complete stranger is someone you know nothing about and have never laid eyes on.

If Lucille Ball (provided she were still living!) walked up to you and asked for directions, you wouldn't consider her "a complete stranger," you'd consider her Lucille Ball. She, however, would be approaching a complete stranger.

Lucy wanted to be extravagant but Gary Morton talked her out of it.

I've had the displeasure of meeting her twice and posted about it, especially her toilet of a house- she's no stranger to me.

[quote]new to the Datalounge

Oh Honey, I've been here since day 1, I just love it when some queen calls someone they have never met a cunt all the while thinking they are above it all.

Have we ever determined how rich Lucy really was? I once read that people like her and Bob Hope bought-up vast acres of olive groves, etc. in the '40's - '50's... which later became The Valley. Pretty savvy investment. Where did all the money go?

Lucy was so Middle America-plain that she wouldn't know how to even spend huge amounts of money. Buy some wigs; strap your wrinkles back with a rubber band; have the tailor sew some sequins on a jacket; rub some Vaseline on the lens... you're done.

Her coffin wasn't so much.

She may not have known how to spend money, but who doesn't redo anything in a house for 35+ years? Jesus, the kitchen cabinets had been painted so many times the doors didn't close and the dog-pee stained carpets! Of course, it might not have been the dog.

People that age who grew up in the depression knew the value of a dollar.

So her kids got a shitload of money, what good did that do Lucy? She lived like a rat, other than the location of the house.

I met her once and she was surprisingly bitchy to me in what was, looking back, a funny situation. If I'd been older and quicker I would have fired a zinger back at her, but alas, I was young and naive.

Well R124 X'plain!

The powder blue vault seems tacky in the same way as a powder blue rental tux from the 70s. Her film career was pretty modest--most often B-pictures or supporting roles.

" I remember someone pointing out that a flowered dress from Long Long Trailer was later used as a hostess dress on ILL. Must have been a money saver."

Now hold on, the practice of re-using costumes has always existed and still exists - just follow the incredibly fascinating RecycledCostmes blog on Tumblr - even in Gone With The Wind they re-used clothing from an obscure Katherine Hepburn film from a few years earlier called A WOMAN REBELS on Vivien Leigh (a lace collar, a robe used in the second half, etc.) so don't blame Lucy.

Funniest reuse of a costume is a green and black lace blouse and skirt that Susan Hayward wears briefly in With a Song in My Heart reused just a few years later on Marilyn Monroe in Bus Stop.

I'm betting that something else had been designed for MM that she rejected on the day of shooting and they scrambled through Fox stock and Hayward's outfit was what pleased MM most (and she'd probably never even seen With a Song in My Heart so was none the wiser).

[quote]R122 People that age who grew up in the depression knew the value of a dollar.

But not of me.

R125, I wish it were a better story. This was a year and a few months before she died. She was invited to a big gala in Beverly Hill; I was supposed to be seating people.

She showed up LATE and I brought her to her table; the room was packed so all the banquet tables were right up next to each other. I chose the wrong path - it was a nightmare. She was grumpy. The whole time I'm thinking why isn't she nicer?

In hindsight, I should have looked at it with the same joy I did watching the chocolates come flying down the assembly belt at the candy factory. I should have turned to her and said "Speed it up a little!"

Maybe I would have gotten a laugh. I learned a lesson that night, though. Be assertive. Be strong. Weakness is never respected.

"The cheapest people in the world tend to be the old money types with generational wealth and rich people who have a paranoia about being poor again."

Don't you realize that makes no sense?

Drunk. Cheap. A cunt. Thank God we have our ILL memories before we knew any of that.

[quote]R128 I'm betting that something else had been designed for MM that she rejected on the day of shooting and they scrambled through Fox stock and Hayward's outfit was what pleased MM most (and she'd probably never even seen With a Song in My Heart so was none the wiser).

According to director Joshua Logan's 1978 autobiography (MOVIE STARS, REAL PEOPLE, AND ME), Monroe immediately felt all the costume sketches for her character were too slick. She wanted more beat up clothes. So she took him to the wardrobe department at Fox and they combed through it for used pieces together.

The more elaborate stage costume the studio made they messed up a little, and paired with darned fishnet stockings.

I remember something about stories of her house by a poster some time ago. Anyone have a link, or would that poster care to tell us again?

R128, she obviously kept her own costumes from the film and had them reused, which is different than a costume service or designer reusing a costume on different people in different projects.

Lucy sold Desilu in 1967 for 17 million dollars, at the time it was the second biggest independent studio. She had long bought out Desi for a few million, so it was all hers.

Lucie Arnaz said they only got about 3.5 million for her mother's estate, thinking they would've gotten about 9 million which was their asking price.

Lucie has also said that her mother's banker was very conservative and didn't invest in land, like a lot of other celebrities, (Fred MacMurray made a fortune off of early Hollywood land). She also said that Lucy left her grandchildren and Gary trust funds.

So it doesn't sound like they are fabulously wealthy but they aren't hurting much either. It was Desi Arnaz that pretty much died broke and the kids wound up supporting his mother who died a couple years later.

Lucy's place was land value only, it was in such crappy shape. No one wanted a lava rock pool with a color-wheel back then- or now.

Lucy also had a condo in NY. That, she did use a decorator for.

Here's some of Lucy's grandkids: the one with the hat is Simon, an artist, and the girl is Katharine, and actress (far left is Nick, Laurence Luckinbill's son from a previous marriage).

I don't know if Desi Arnaz, Jr. had any biological children. He adopted his late wife's daughter Haley.

r138 How did Sarah Huckabee Sanders get in that photo?

And Lucie and Laurence's third child Joseph, a musician.

[quote]Lucy sold Desilu in 1967 for 17 million dollars

$124,591,676.65 in 2017 dollars.

Wow, that son is a beast.

"Lucy also had a condo in NY"

Are you referring to her CO-OP apt in the Imperial House on East 69th? She lived there in 1960 when she was doing Wildcat.

No, one she bought much later to be closer to the grandkids.

Lucie looks amazing in those pictures. Laurence L. looks like he could be her father rather than her husband!

Desi Jr got a girl pregnant at 16. Lucy tried to cover it up. I believe Desi Jr eventually acknowledged the child years after the fact.

R146,

I can hear Lucy screaming at Desi Jr., “God damn It! You’re just like your father!”

Did Lucy mellow over the years regarding Patty Duke?

Has anyone noticed that both of the kids have nose jobs?

Big Lucy assaulting Anthony Newley...then her employee on a TV special.

This behavior wouldn't fly today.

Hmmmmmm. Both Lucy Sr. and Desi Sr. had small naturally lovely noses so I would think the kids were likely to inherit the same. But they do look suspiciously operated on in an Ann Millerish way.

Lucy never mellowed over anything. She was a bitter cunt.

She was worried Lucie & Desi Jr would be whores like her.

Well, she was right about Desi Jr.

"Ball filed for divorce in 1944, going so far as obtaining an interlocutory decree; however, she and Arnaz reconciled, which precluded the entry of a final decree"

Sounds like there were problems from the start. But I think Desi was the love of her life; Lucie said after the divorce "the laughter stopped" in their house.

Was Lucille Ball a good mother?

No. Too strict and controlling. Plus, she was always working.

She was known to be quite a mother r156.

[quote] It wasn't Lucille Ball who opened in New York but Lucy Ricardo.

Yup. Even the advertising conceded that

Did Luci know about Desi Jr. and Dean Paul Martin's three-way with Cesar Romero?

That's the most ridiculously written load of crap I've ever seen.

Letter to Desi....or Gary???

"Both Lucy Sr. and Desi Sr. had small naturally lovely noses "

Um, NO. Desi's was wide-fat. Desi Jr & Lucie didn't like it.

Cesar gave Desi Sr a blowjob once in the 50s. He never did anything with Desi Jr. Cesar wasn’t into twinks.

What a load of shit! Dino Jr. was one of the most gorgeous men I've ever known. If he was gay or bi, he still wouldn't touch that shriveled old dick. He could get anyone he wanted.

Lucy didn’t want to be cheap. It was Gary Morton who made her buy Shasta tonic water, Velveeta cheese, and polyester clothes.

Please, Gary had the only 2 decent rooms in that dump of a house. His closet and office. I don't know how he could stand the place.

[quote] Lucy didn’t want to be cheap. It was Gary Morton who made her buy Shasta tonic water, Velveeta cheese, and polyester clothes.

Honestly, it wasn't me, but back in the '80s two friends of mine claimed they drove down the alley behind 1000 N. Roxbury and poked through Lucy's trash. They said there were several empty half-gallon bottles of Thrifty (a local drug store) brand vodka

Hell, I'm shocked it was Thrifty. They had the Price Clubs back then- why pay more for the name?

[quote]Lucie looks amazing in those pictures. Laurence L. looks like he could be her father rather than her husband!

Laurence Luckinbill is 17 years older than Lucie, so he could be her father, but I agree Lucie looks very good she'll be 67 this year.

Desi Jr looks a mess, I guess it was the drugs, cause he was much better looking than his father.

Desi Jr hasn't looked good for 25 years, at least.

Desi Jr is a lush - just like dad

Desi Jr quit drinking and drugging, but it was too late.

All Hollywood actors and actresses drank and smoked heavily back then. So did most other people from that era. At least everyone wasn't fat like the GenX and Millennials. They were cheap because they lived through the depression. Most people back then hit their kids and would be considered child abusers by today's standards too.

[quote]Hell, I'm shocked it was Thrifty. They had the Price Clubs back then- why pay more for the name?

Are you crazy? They expected me to shell out $30 for a membership! Highway robbery!

I wonder if Lucy threw coffee at the checker at Price Club too.

No. It was already established that she shopped at Thrifty

[quote] Desi Jr is a lush - just like dad

Is Desi Jr intact, just like dear ol' dad as well?

No, heeesh cut nish and clean.

Years ago, as a teenager, I worked part time with a woman who knew a celebrity hairdresser. He told her that Lucille Ball was the biggest bitch he ever worked for. He hated her because she was so difficult. This was in 1981, by the way.

Didn't Lucy usually just send her hair out?

You people are fucking nutz. Lucille Ball did not or ever live in a dump.

The house might have been lovely from the outside. Do you know what the inside looked like R182? I think the inside is what people are talking about. I'm sure it wasn't dirty or crawling with rats. She did have a staff I suppose. I think they mean it was filled with old bargain basement crap, except apparently for two rooms.

Lucy used to soak her old claws in dishwashing detergent.

But it wasn't Palmolive!

Yes, I'm the one that posted a few times about her house. No, it wasn't Grey Gardens and the outside was maintained as was the inside (sort of). It is on one of the best streets in Beverly Hills.

Lucy just had bad taste and never remodeled, so by the 80s when I was there in was quite dated and shabby. She had a live-in maid and I believe that's it, other than the gardener/pool man- she had the guy learn to take care of the pool to save on another person.

[quote]The house might have been lovely from the outside. Do you know what the inside looked like [R182]?

Well my Mother had a friend who lived across the street from her in the 70's and would travel out to LA and stay with him. The friend would play backgammon with Lucy who was a fierce player. My mother learned to play from him and she in turn taught me. I heard nothing but lovely things about her, and her home. That's why I know she and Vivian remained fiends and Viv would be spotted visiting.

OP for most brilliant Thread title.

sounds like a good black and white expose: LUCILLE BALL: ONCE CHEAP BITCH.

i'm over taken

thank you korova noms.

ah heck O N E

why do we fell compelled to do this correction shit?

Lovely things about her and her home, seriously? Bullshit.

We joke, about I wonder if someone like Gary was really giving her bad career advice? I think "Here's Lucy" was a mistake; it was bland and she had the excuse that she was launching her kids into stardom (never happened). I'll forgive "Mame". But then... nothing. And I know she wanted to work.

I could see her playing Mrs. Roper on "Three's Company"; or being the female Capt. Stubing on "The Love Boat"; or one of "The Golden Girls".

[quote] We joke, about I wonder if someone like Gary was really giving her bad career advice? I think "Here's Lucy" was a mistake; it was bland and she had the excuse that she was launching her kids into stardom (never happened). I'll forgive "Mame". But then... nothing. And I know she wanted to work.

My guess is that she would never deign to be part of an ensemble where she wasn't front and center. Sure, one could argue ILL was an ensemble, but the show wasn't called I Love Ricky. And the few times she ventured away from playing Lucy she met with varying degrees of success. Yours, Mine and Ours was a hit, but Mame was a huge flop and most of the other things she did non-Lucy were middling, at best. She was probably terrified to do anything un-Lucy like again. I see she did do a few TV movies in the mid-70s. I don't recall ever hearing of any of them, so I don't know how successful they were. And then when she did trot Lucy out again in '86, it was a huge bomb. And she didn't even have dramatic work to fall back on, as her much heralded TV movie Stone Pillow also got bad reviews.

If Gary did anything, it was probably to convince her of what she already knew- she wasn't ready to jump into anything, and it was best to keep the legend going than to further dilute the brand.

[quote]All Hollywood actors and actresses drank and smoked heavily back then.

Oh surely not Barbara Billingsley

[quote]I could see her playing Mrs. Roper on "Three's Company"; or being the female Capt. Stubing on "The Love Boat"; or one of "The Golden Girls".

Lucy didn't want to be part of an ensemble she wanted to be a star. "Here's Lucy" was not intended to be a vehicle for her kids but when she sold out Desilu to Golf+Western she didn't want to continue with "the Lucy Show" but wanted to have her own show she controlled. So she formed a new company and that meant a new show. Doris Singleton, who played Lillian Caroline Appleby was supposed to be the "Vivian Vance/Mary Jane" to Lucy but then it was changed to have her children as Lucy wanted to spend more time with her kids.

She sent it over with her driver R181, but then showed up about an hour later to have a Scotch on the rocks and bitch at the stylist about what a crap job they were doing.

If anyone other than Vivian Vance saw Lucy's cheap, self-centered behavior up-close through the years, it was Lucy's long suffering maid Willie Mae.

Director Maury Thompson said that he was once invited for dinner at Lucy's house and was shocked when Willie Mae came out of the kitchen with ONE lone meatball atop a platter of spaghetti.

Having known and worked with Lucy for years - even he was stunned by this display of Lucy's hospitality.

During the later years of the "Lucy Show" and during "Here's Lucy", Lucille Ball began to rely on well-know guest stars to prop up the ratings of her less-than-stellar performances.

But she was frequently jealous of some of the guest stars, especially the younger female guests.

In those cases, Lucy would instruct the crew to give HER every advantage of those guest stars in costumes, make-up, lighting, etc.

She'd glare at the crew members and growl, "If you're smart, you'll stay with money".

Lucy was on Dinah Shore's daytime talk show to promote her huge stinkbomb, vanity production of "Mame" when Dinah brought on Vivian Vance to surprise Lucy.

The panel laughed as Vivian fondly remembered that during the days of the "I Love Lucy", she would regularly go over to Lucy's house at night to henna and perm Lucy's hair.

Lucy was too fucking cheap to pay a hair dresser when she had one of the top television shows on the air.

And as I think back her hair was pretty frizzy and over-processed for most of the run of ILL.

Actually R197, you're wrong. It's a pretty funny story.

It was funny because Vivian made it funny

But IRL Viv HAD sufficient

(In her BEAUTIFUL Beverly Hills mansion)

R198 bought a zoo

And she has a smelly pussy too

That's it?

Ya call that hot?

Some people need to know when to retire. You don't have to die of old age onstage.

That last show was just pathetic. Lucy must have been humiliated to be cancelled.

[quote]The panel laughed as Vivian fondly remembered that during the days of the "I Love Lucy", she would regularly go over to Lucy's house at night to henna and perm Lucy's hair.

Both Ann Sothern and Ethel Merman said the same thing, they'd visit Lucy and do each other's hair.

Didn't Jack Benny live next door. You'd think he'd say something about her stinginess.

"Lucy, I play cheap for laughs, but you take it too far."

[quote] Both Ann Sothern and Ethel Merman said the same thing, they'd visit Lucy and do each other's hair.

I wish I could remember where I read the Merman story, but I think it took place around the time she was fucking, er dating Ernest Borgnine and spending a lot of time in Los Angeles.

Merman, Vance, and Ball were having a girls' party at Chez Roxbury and getting pretty dunk in the process. The Merm announced she had fucked Desi when he was appearing in TOO MANY GIRLS and she was in DU BARRY WAS A LADY, before he went to Hollywood and met Lucy. (If true, Merman certainly got around. She was also having an affair with Sherman Billingsley, owner of the Stock Club, and would hurriedly marry William Smith in 1940 in an attempt to cover it up).

Anyway, Ball was none too pleased to find out about yet another one of her ex-husband's infidelities, and things got a little tense between the two. It was Vance who stepped in and decided it was time the girls play hairdresser. Due to equal parts vodka and venom, the three of them ended up looking like Elsa Lanchester in THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, but peace was restored.

I always figured the Merm was a dyke.

[quote] The Merm announced she had fucked Desi when he was appearing in TOO MANY GIRLS and she was in DU BARRY WAS A LADY, before he went to Hollywood and met Lucy......Ball was none too pleased to find out about yet another one of her ex-husband's infidelities

If Merman fucked Desi before he met Lucy, how could Lucy be mad at his infidelity?

I'd love to hear the stories that the three child actors who played Lucy and Viv's kids on "The Lucy Show" could tell. The two boys always delivered their lines at the top of their voices while staring directly at the camera.

Those kids must have been terrified of her!

Lucy was mad because Ethel had a bigger dick than Lucy

She spoiled Desi and he was never satisfied from buttsex with Lucy

that lust for the cuban....she could not resist.....it's a really fucked up kind of love affair.... those musicians'll get ya every time.

It was Merman and Fernando Lamas that detested each other.

[quote] If Merman fucked Desi before he met Lucy, how could Lucy be mad at his infidelity?

After I reread my post I realized 'infidelity' was the wrong word and was hoping nobody else noticed it. Maybe 'peccadillo'? 'Tryst'? 'Rendezvous'?

Surely Ball did not presume Desi was a virgin when she married him. I guess that's what Merman thought when she brought up the whole thing, but Lucy either didn't want to hear about Desi or for some reason she was offended that Merman had the poor taste to let Lucy know that she'd had Desi first.

Now I'm going to have to spend hours going through Merman and Ball biographies trying to find that story. And, given this old queen's bookshelf, it's gonna be a long night.

For years, Lucy, Ann Miller and Carole Cook used the same hairdresser at the Beverly Hills Robinson's. Lucy and Carole used the same color, but that guy must have gone through the hairspray by the case.

[quote] Now I'm going to have to spend hours going through Merman and Ball biographies trying to find that story. And, given this old queen's bookshelf, it's gonna be a long night.

No need. Your explanation of just popping in the wrong word was good enough an explanation.

But you bring up a funny topic- particular people having multiple (and I doi mean MULTIPLE) books written about them. Lucy is certainly one. David Bowie is another. Bowie at least had the justification of having continued to record and live his life until about 2 years ago (though honestly, what really was there to say about the last 30 years of his recording output that wouldn't have fit into one chapter in an updated version of an already published bio).

But Lucy? Jesus, everyone is dead. What more is there to say?

I found the Merman/Ball/Vance story. It's in Geoffrey Marx's book ETHEL MERMAN: THE BIGGEST STAR ON BROADWAY. He also wrote THE LUCY BOOK, so I guess he's somewhat of an authority on both ladies.

(According to Marx, in 1939 Merman had met Desi Arnaz in an elevator in her apartment building, where he was also living while performing in TOO MANY GIRLS.)

The story takes place on the evening after Ball threw a wedding shower at Desilu studios for Merman prior to her marriage to Ernest Borgnine, which would put the time in early 1964.

" ...Lucille threw a hen party for Merman at her Beverly Hills house. Her husband, Gary Morton, and her children Lucie and Desi Jr. were sent away while Lucille Ball, Ethel Merman, and Vivian Vance spent the evening with several bottles of scotch. The three ladies reminisced about being young together in [sic] Broadway and Hollywood. By this point, Merman had known Vance for twenty nine years and Lucille a little longer. They had done movies and Broadway together and had just finished filming a two part "Lucy Show" for airing on CBS. "

"The more they drank, the freer everyone's tongues got. Merman admitted to her one night stand with Desi in 1939, which Vivian found hysterical. Viv said that if she had known it was that easy, she would've hung out in Desi's elevator until he asked her! Miss Ball, meanwhile, was not amused and wondered out loud that Ernest Borgnine must be great in bed at night because he was nothing to look at in the daylight."

"Viv knew both ladies very well and knew what could happen if they got into a drunken argument. Tying to diffuse the situation, Vance suggested Lucy do their hair. Ball had always been a frustrated hairstylist (of meager talent) and had a mini beauty salon in a room off her kitchen. Viv knew it would take little coaxing to get Lucy to fire up the hair dryer and curlers."

"The three continued to drink and it really is too bad the Desilu cameras were not there to record a scene that could easily have been written by "Lucy Show" scribes Bob Schiller and Bob Weiskopf. Lucy kept teasing and teasing Merman's hair until it practically stood up on end while she spritzed hair spray into everyone's eyes. Vivian ended up with her hair pulled back like the Bride of Frankenstein. Finally, the three dames dissolved into laughter and made coffee. Merman swore that Lucille Ball would never again do her hair, but was grateful to have two such good pals with whom to get over the jitters."

^ I misspelled the author's name. It's Geoffrey Mark, not Marx

I believe the photo at r217 is of Merman's wedding to Ernest Borgnine. And that's Merman's costar from There's No Business like Show Business Mitzi Gaynor sitting with the lovely veiled bride and Matron-of-Honor Lucy.

Why would Lucy bother to redecorate in the 1980s when she died in 1988?

Why would Karen Carpenter bother to eat when she died in 1983?

I never knew Lucy furnished her house with stuff from the sets of the various "Lucy" shows. God, that just seems so sad. This was a woman who had to money to buy the best furniture, and she just took stuff home from the studio.

More likely she used the stuff in her home on the Lucy sets.

[quote] I never knew Lucy furnished her house with stuff from the sets of the various "Lucy" shows. God, that just seems so sad. This was a woman who had to money to buy the best furniture, and she just took stuff home from the studio.

I wonder if the tablecloths she bought at Bullock's Palm Springs and had shipped to the Desilu Studios on Cahuenga were charged to the studio but later made their way to Roxbury Drive.

Sounds very Leona Helmsley to me

LOOK AT THAT RECEIPT!

LOOK AT THAT FUCKING RECEIPT!!!

The sales tax is $1.46 not $1.48.

I got fucking gyped $0.02!

That does it! I'm fucking coming back from the grave. I want my two pennys...I want blood. Bullocks blood. F-U-C-K-I-N-G BLOOD!!!!!

[quote]I got fucking gyped $0.02!

That's pretty racist.

This is what Lucy's house looked like, it's been majorly renovated since she lived there. What's crazy to me is that it's right there on the street, no gate, no security etc. Anybody could've just walked off the street and knocked on her front door. For someone who was as huge of a star as Lucy, that seems odd.

r227 It was a different time.

r227 I'm sure that wall and gate will make all the difference.

Lucy's house had to be gut-renovated because it was the only way to get the whiskey and Pall Mall fumes out of the walls and floorboards.

How would SHE feel if someone climbed over her fence to steal a grapefruit?

I've posted too many times on this thread, but my final 2 words, cheap cunt. I can describe every room in that shithole- including the game room, guesthouse and pool house. House as in dog.

Great story,. R217. Thanks for sharing it!

Did Lucille Ball give her time and money to any charities? Did she “pay it forward”, as they say?

[quote] Did Lucille Ball give her time and money to any charities? Did she “pay it forward”, as they say?

Listen, buster, I gave the greatest gift there is. LAUGHTER. I helped those poor coons and cripples forget how useless and downtrodden they were for ONE HALF HOUR per WEEK! Can you beat THAT?

Gary, we're out of Viceroys!

R204, it was awful. The show was in 1986 and they were determined to show Lucy could still do physical comedy.

They should have tailored the show a bit to her age; and the casting of the family -- son/daughter(inlaw? forget if the son was the inlaw or the daughter was -- that was the point, though; they were beyond boring).

In either 79 or 80, Bill Murray did a Hollywood segment on the SNL news; Lucy (Gilda Radner) said about a return to show biz:

"No, Bill. I'm retired. I have two extremely untalented children and I'm content to sit in my garden with Rose Marie and talk about how time has ravaged our faces."

So odd that Rose lived up until recently.

R236, is that the one where Radner at Lucy is smoking a cigarette and says, "Seems I NEVER get to Baltimore as much as I'd LIKE to!" and her eyes flick open wider on the word "like?"

R227: There's less crime now than when she lived there. Different but not in the way you think.

R236: If was suited to her age, it would hav ebeen all about her verbal/visual schtick. It would have been just as bad.

R237, I don't think so; she was in her garden in BH in the Murray sketch.

I do recall the Baltimore line; I grew up in Boston and there was a local talk show that had celebs would always visit and they'd often say something nice about a landmark or a local restaurant.

It makes people go: Oh, no way! So and so loves MY hometown!

[quote] What's crazy to me is that it's right there on the street, no gate, no security etc.

If I didn't have a fucking gate, I'd still be alive today

The Merm was no dyke, R208. I was the dame who tried to prove it!

[quote] [R237], I don't think so; she was in her garden in BH in the Murray sketch. I do recall the Baltimore line; I grew up in Boston and there was a local talk show that had celebs would always visit and they'd often say something nice about a landmark or a local restaurant.

I remembered it about a half hour after I posted. It was a sketch where she was on a local talk show hosted by Garrett Morris and some back actress extra. I looked for it online and couldn't find it, but I did find that the local talk show was called Bad Clams.

Lucy looked like she was embalmed on 'Life With Lucy.'

Sad, the young actor who played her grandson, Philip Amelio, died in 2005 at the tender age of 27.

He was also Scott on All My Children for many years.

[quote]Did Lucille Ball give her time and money to any charities? Did she “pay it forward”, as they say?

She left her entire estate to be split between the Friends of the Friendless and Ladies Overseas Aid.

Those were two different SNL skits. One was celebrity corner where Radner as Ball (with Alan Zweibel as the silent Gary) essentially parodied the Barbara Walters interview and the other was a stupid skit called "Bad Clams" where Garrett Morris and some black chick played early morning Baltimore hosts Stan and Trish and get Lucy to eat rancid clams.

[quote]Did Lucille Ball give her time and money to any charities?

Desi and Lucy did a lot of work for the Heart Fund.

R148 according to a new book written by Patty Duke before she passed away called, in the presence of greatness, Patty said that they had a moment towards the end of Lucy's life

Lucy called her a lying bitch for framing Desi when the whore knew all along it wasn't him.

Which is odd, cause Sean Astin looked so much like Desi Jr when he was younger.

Lucy was treated horribly by the media for growing old. Almost of all of the Mame reviews take cracks at her appearance, to the point where she broke down during an interview with Gene Siskel. Lena, Amy and the other fragile flowers of today should be thankful they didn't have to endure half of the shit Lucy got. Ditto these aging actresses who become Asian gorgons thanks to excessive plastic surgery and are treated like the Emperors New Clothes.

She overdid it on the henna rinse, but Lucy aged quite beautifully. She was still flashing her sexy legs at her last public appearance to cheers from the crowd. She didn't deserve the hatred she got.

The legs are the last to go.

R252 = Ann Miller, still tapping away

Lucy was treated reverently until she died----Mame was awful and her age was only one of many reasons why;, ditto her last series. After her death, more of her life story surfaced.--he round heeled rep back in Jamestown, the questions about her being a call girl in NYC, etc.

Is it true that Lucy threw coffee at somebody and is it true that Lucy slapped a stewardess?

Lucy did not age well or at least did not age gracefully. It was too much booze and too many cigarettes. Also, from the 1960s until her death, she never changed her looks. It was the same red hair and the same hairstyle. She looked bloated and pasty. Also, she was extremely bitchy, and irritable and this was shown in her face. Sum total, she never evolved beyond the 60s, thus became a caricature of herself.

Plus, no plastic surgery and those cheap wigs with tape.

We know she fucked Pandro Berman, head of RKO. Did she also fuck Harry Cohn when she was under contract to Columbia?

She wasn't at Columbia very long, so its' more likely she only fucked Pan Berman.

I don't think the media was so critical about Lucy's age in Mame as they were about all of the blurry greased-up lenses that tried to hide her age.

Those lenses looked like they were covered with lube. Was the camera man a bottom?

If she had just waited a couple of more years for Broadway, she could have starred in Hello Dolly. And she could have hammed her way through that role with no problem.

R250 if you look at young Mike Tell and a young Desi they look alike, so Sean could be either one's son.

I couldn't believe how they would let such an old woman play Mame

[quote] I don't think the media was so critical about Lucy's age in Mame as they were about all of the blurry greased-up lenses that tried to hide her age.

Mame's age is indeterminate. We don't know how old her late brother was, he could've been an older man who married a younger woman who died in childbirth, leaving him with Patrick. So Mame, like Vera, being somewhere between forty and death, could easily have been in her 50s, which Lucy, at 61 when production began, could've gotten away with. Robert Preston was 54 at the time, not an unreasonable age difference.

I saw the movie when it first premiered and the two things that were painfully distracting were 1) Lucy's fuzzy appearance and 2) Lucy's singing voice. even this 15 year old gayling had to rush come and put the OCR on the record player to cleanse my poor ears.

When, oh when r265, will they ever release Ginger's cast recording?

I read that Lucy called all her enemies before she died and forgave them and almost all of them were already dead.

Her former game room attached to the guest house was filled with cases of Mame coffee mugs. People didn't even want those.

Okay DL bitches, who was worse - Lucy or Lauren Bacall?

r268

I used to stand behind them.

Lucy and Lauren Bacall were both horrendous bullies

Lauren was fairly intelligent and well-read, at least

Lucy was not well-educated or well-read

Hey, at least I served more than one meatball and never threw coffee at a stewardess.

I saw pictures of the interior of Lucy's house and it looked like nothing had been changed since the 1950s.

Did it have the old ILL furniture in it?

R275, it it did, it would be worth a fortune today.

Lauren was probably better at APPEARING to be a nice person. Lucy just seemed bluntly cranky and highhanded most of the time.

I think Bacall (bitch though she was) had a wider circle of friends than Ball, too. She was better at playing the game.

Lucy's furniture was a lot of the bad 60s stuff and it wouldn't be worth shit. It was bad quality to start with.

Is it possible she was some hybrid of Norma Desmond and Miss Havisham?

R277

It's good for standing behind.

[QUOTE] I wonder if the tablecloths she bought at Bullock's Palm Springs and had shipped to the Desilu Studios on Cahuenga were charged to the studio but later made their way to Roxbury Drive. Sounds very Leona Helmsley to me

How about her not wanting everybody and their brother knowing her address and having it sent to work. Many people send their deliveries to their job. Notice how that receipt survived. Someone got a hold of it and kept it.

r280 EVERYBODY in Los Angeles knew where Lucy's house was.

R277, meaning the set furniture from ILL would have been worth a lot of money.

Really, R280, tour buses drove past Lucy's house and Jack Benny's house daily.

In those days, you could buy a map to the stars homes on just about every corner.

I thought New Yorker Betty would have had better taste than Lucy, but I don't think so.

[quote]In those days, you could buy a map to the stars homes on just about every corner.

Anyone else remember the gay-themed movie, "Star Maps?"

You are nothing but a bunch of clucking old hens. Lucy would have said to you gays "Stop that cackling, I've been waiting for ten years for you to lay those eggs."

Betty's furniture and art is ADx100 compared to Lucy's.

[quote]Betty's furniture and art is ADx100 compared to Lucy's.

Betty Ramsey? But didn't they get their stuff from the same store?

[quote] Okay DL bitches, who was worse - Lucy or Lauren Bacall?

And the winner is...Juliette Binoche.

288, you made me laugh out loud. Thanks!

I love Lucy co-starring

Vivian William

And

Vance Frawley

the cuban made me a sex pest

It was the Hello Larry of its day

r284, Bacall's decor is actually quite stylish, just very, very dated. It's clearly influenced by the great diva decorators of the early to mid 20th century. Anyone from Lady Diana Cooper to Bunny Mellon. Obviously, she's not on their level.

Ball's approach seems to mirror that of someone who's life of early poverty/scarcity left a permanent mark.

Lucy wanted to redecorate the Roxbury Drive house

But Gary advised against it

He told Lucy to put all her money into a remake of "Mame"

"It CAN"T miss Lucy! You were born to do the musical version of "Mame", Sweetie!"

Come on over for dinner! Spaghetti and meatball (one) for everyone!

Bring a sweater too- the heater is set at 60.

made us laugh tho, did she not

Bacall's place seemed more cluttered than anything else.

There's a reason there was no estate sale after Lucy died- she had a bunch of crap. The kids took a few momentos, Gary grabbed the little decent stuff there was and the rest was donated to charity.

Gary's widow did sell some things around 10 years ago, including Gary's Rolls.

r298

That's why Lucy was my best friend. Plenty of things to stand behind

GAAAARY............Get me another pack of Pall Malls!

[quote] Gary's widow did sell some things around 10 years ago, including Gary's Rolls.

We were not amused

Jewels? She had nothing major, just a vast trove of hideous cocktail rings- Lucie already had those.

Goddammit Gary, I said NO ICE! I can't drink this. Make me another one and remember NO ICE! Fucking useless. Oh, and can you get me another pack of Pall Malls from the cupboard? Can you manage to do that? Jesus Christ.

Gary was too busy on the phone with the semi-lez golfer having phone sex to deal with Lu.

Anyone have a site for interior photos of her home so we can see just how bad it really was?

It appears she did not skimp on lip liner, to overdraw her mouth with.

This is the den, which used to be the back porch and was enclosed.

It's very sparse, isn't it r308?

R307, how about mentioning that her brows were drawn on and completely fake? With those and the wig off, she was probably unrecognizable.

Gary Morton's wife after Lucy:

Sorry, the link didn't work for the den. There isn't much out there for pictures, especially after Desi.

If you find anything from the 60s, that what the place looked like in the 80s.

Lucy had two interests, starring in Mame and stopping me from being famous solo

Who ended up with the wigs?

The dog played with them until they were ruined.

The wigs were cut up and re-fashioned into merkins for some famous redheads. Jesse Tyler Ferguson wears one to this day.

I find it bizarre how many of you had been inside her old house.

I also find it bizarre how obsessed so many of you are with her, but have at it.

Paula Stewart of WILDCAT fame, who introduced her to Gary, has a book out