Classic film stars you just don't LIKE

I never liked Carole Lombard. I just don't get it.

And although Ingrid Bergman was gorgeous, I hate her roles. She always portrays a breathless, wide-eyed, confused victim. Only when she got older did she learn to act, and start playing real people.

[quote]Classic film stars you just don't LIKE

All of them.

JENNIFER JONES

She always spoke like her mouth was full of marshmallows.

Marilyn Monroe.

Tom Cruise

Van Johnson

Good god he’s insufferable in every movie he ever appeared in.

Also, Dick Powell - or, as my husband calls him, Ol’ Puddin’ Face. I can’t believe Joan Blondell ever married that drip.

Katherine Hepburn Plain Jane

Oh yeah. Katherine Hepburn is another one I don't like.

Jimmy Stewart. Aw shucks act was a bore and he had a skinny yet flabby body in Rear Window.

Monroe was a talented light comedienne, but her enunciation was so weird sometimes.

Jimmy Stewart for me, too. His voice is too distinctive and distracting to me, and I think he lacked depth and range as an actor.

Not a classic, but Arnold is one of the worst actors in the history of Hollywood.

Jane Wyman- meh

R12 His tits have all the talent.

Tony Curtis was very pretty/handsome but he didn't have much range as an actor. Never won any major acting awards.

June Allyson.. That face! It's like she walked into a glass door every morning as part of her morning routine.

R15 Bathing time, man to man, in Spartacus.

Henry Fonda and Bing Crosby. Two men who were pigs in their real lives.

R16 Just for you.

Rosalind Russell, annoying.

[quote]Henry Fonda and Bing Crosby. Two men who were pigs in their real lives.

Oh yeah, Bing Crosby... Ever since I read about how he treated his sons, I never watch him in anything. Horrible, abusive father.

I don't know anything about Henry Fonda, but I've never liked him as an actor. Like James Stewart, his voice is too distinctive and distracting.

Danny Kaye

Another vote for June Allyson. Her singing voice was as melodious as a foghorn and she was as pretty as a Brutalist-era building. When she was 25 she looked 40.

I love Jimmy Stewart but won't argue. I liked Norman Shearer in Marie Antoinette only. Can't watch Rosalind Russell, Joan Fontaine or Grace Kelly. NO to John Wayne and Gary Cooper.

I

jean harlow.....that face......ugh

sterling hayden

charlton heston

I liked James Stewart in Rear Window and Rope, but really disliked him in Mr. Smith goes to Washington and The Philadelphia Story. He's hit and miss with me, so I understand both sides.

Vivian Leigh never did anything for me. There was a coldness or a distance about her acting. She was probably best on stage than in film.

June Allyson and Jennifer Jones - I understand June Allyson's appeal; I just loathe her. But Jennifer Jones is funny looking and she cannot act.

I always thought Robert Mitchum was repulsive.

Kirk Douglas and Marlon Brando seemed like creeps too.

Mickey Rooney. Billy Barty.

{quote]Tony Curtis was very pretty/handsome but he didn't have much range as an actor.

R15 has never seen Sweet Smell of Success or The Defiant Ones

Glenn Ford -- wasn't that good-looking, wasn't the best actor, yet had a long filmography. I have no idea why Rita Hayworth gives him the time of day in "Gilda".

Audrey Hepburn. The original basic bitch.

Humphrey Bogart

A second for Danny Kaye

Donald O'Connor

Snitz Edwards

I love Norma Shearer. She was the eye of the hurricane in The Women, keeping it together and making it the classic it is.

Her acting style may be out of date, but it's no reason to blame her.

And as Mrs. Patrick Campbell observed to Norma"s husband Irving Thalberg, "She has such interesting tiny eyes."

Well, "star" would be a stretch, but I've always loathed that b-list bitch Ronald Reagan.

Brian Donlevy makes me yawn. Maybe that's not dislike, but if it is, it's equally as distant from like as well.

Mia Farrow.

Hate Jimmy Stewart.

Hate hate HATE his irritating “acting.”

I relate to everyone here right now.

Frank Sinatra as film star like when in High Society with Grace Kelly. Crosby as well. Enjoying our evolution towards more realistic film style these days. Not so entertaining but often thought provoking.

Slim Summerville

crawford. she was a manipulative and bitter b*tch. sabotaging the chance of baby jane winning an Oscar just because she didn't want bette to get one. and they would have each received a bonus 1 million+ check if it had. she'd rather both of them lose than one of them win. attacking marilyn monroe on her attire, implying that shes sleazy, when crawford herself has 'slept with everyone except lassie'. her general mean streak for other women she finds intimidating.

I admire Joan Crawford for achieving things professionally, but she sounds to have been an alcoholic psycho. Her heavy acting's always contrived, though she was good at playing straight-out villainesses (like in HARRIET CRAIG), if she didn't have to strive for much depth.

Jimmy Stewart. Overrated and a rethug.

Seems like everyone hates Jimmy Stewart.

He was so twee.

In her day, Norma Shearer was considered bigger than both Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. Now she's barely remembered.

[quote]Also, Dick Powell - or, as my husband calls him, Ol’ Puddin’ Face. I can’t believe Joan Blondell ever married that drip.

He must have been great in bed, because he married several times. But he's very dweeby looking.

I don't think I've ever actually seen him in anything.

Betty Hutton

[quote]In her day, Norma Shearer was considered bigger than both Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. Now she's barely remembered.

Because she was boring as sh!t.

[quote]Audrey Hepburn. The original basic bitch.

Surely you jest. The title of "original basic bitch" most certainly belongs to my dear sister, Joan Fontaine.

Never quite understood why Clark Gable was so devastating.

Michel Simon. I can't stand him be that ugly motherfucker seemed to have been in every fucking French film made in the 1930's and 1940's.

I also hate post-Hays Code Loretta Young. Her bulging eyes freak me out.

Please forgive dear Olivia at R49. She's always been cross because I was the younger, yet both married and got the Oscar first.

Plus she's just a festering, phlegm-filled cooze.

I despised Katherine Hepburn and Joan Crawford, never got their appeal. Still don't.

Hepburn always sounded as if she was about to have a stroke and she had an old lady voice as a young woman. Crawford was over-the-top and too mannered. When my mom was watching old Joan Crawford films on TV, I'd turn to my mom and say, "Joan acts with her shoulder pads! She'd be lost without them".

I did enjoy Joan in some thriller shows segment, she played an extremely wealthy blind woman who paid a million, or so, for some poor schlubs eyes, the catch was, she could only see for one day. The day Joan was finally able to see, there was some absurd blackout, the city, or world, was in complete darkness. Her meltdown was classic!

Never understood the popularity of Rooney or Grable, Abbott & Costello, the Three Stooges, Crosby, Hope or John Wayne--all are either bland or obnoxious.

Jean Harlow was supposed to be the sexiest thing ever, but I never saw it. I don't like Humphrey Bogart in anything. I think Marilyn was rather overrated too. Crosby was always such an ugly bore. I also don't understand how Clark Gable was considered the hottest man alive in the 30s. I don't share the dislike for Jimmy Stewart. Anytime he channeled his darker side, he was much less twee. I love his ability to show desperation and despair. Hitchcock tapped into that so well in "Vertigo" and I love him in "Rear Window" too.

Katherine Hepburn!

If you don't like Shearer you are seriously disturbed. She's great in The Student Prince, Private Lives, Barretts, Romeo and Juliette, Marie Antoinette, The Women and Escape.

You need intensive 5 day a week therapy and industrial strength meds. By the steel drum.

[quote] If you don't like Shearer you....need intensive 5 day a week therapy and industrial strength meds. By the steel drum.

She's as drab as dishwater. And without the MGM glamour treatment she'd appear very average looking.

If she hadn't whored herself out to studio exec Thalberg and popped out a kid for him, she'd have been an also-ran.

#SilentNoMore

Jerry Lewis

People here dismissing Norma Shearer, Katherine Hepburn and Rosalind Russell are immediately blacklisted.

I've never understood the appeal of Bogart.

Anything starring Jimmy Stewart

So glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has an intense dislike of June Allyson. I also hated Astaire and Rogers. Their dancing was dull and they both were unphotogenic as hell. Also not a fan of Jimmy Stewart, Walter Brennan, Virginia Mayo, Garbo, Dietrich, John Wayne...

[quote]R60 People here dismissing Norma Shearer, Katharine Hepburn and Rosalind Russell are immediately blacklisted. I've never understood the appeal of Bogart.

[bold] BLOCKED! [/bold]

Another K Hepburn. God, what an awful actress.

Michael Caine. God, what an awful actor.

Bette Davis . MOST overrrated b-list actress ever

[quote]R66 Bette Davis . MOST overrrated b-list actress ever

Oh noes! She was passionate. She really gave herself over. NOT boring, like so many of the other half baked vermin mentioed here.

It's not like I love her in everything...but she had guts.

OMG...how could I forget that dry dung beetle, David Niven. What a waste of space.

Plus, fugly.

R68, David Niven is the Requisite Brit Hollywood deserved. You should shush.

When I saw the title of this thread, I was going to post Norma Shearer, and lo and behold, she was the first entry. No glamor or charisma. Just a studio head's wife. The Lorraine Gary of the 30s.

Norma Shearer was a goddess!

Norma Shearer would have been ripe and ready for Harvey Weinstein. The only thing that made her a star was opening her legs.

[quote]R72 I have no idea what producer Irving Thalberg saw in Norma Shearer. Why would someone flip for her. She was lucky he used his clout to personally built her up into a star with all of MGM's top properties, because I can't imagine any production team sitting around a table and saying, "You know who we need for this?? [italic] Norma Shearer!!" [/italic]

Unless it was to play a simpering, pseudo-sophisticate housewife.

Even her name is boring.

Norma Shearer

Katherine Hepburn

Simone Signoret

Joan Plowright

Surprised no one has said Garson who anyway I think is great in a number of films especially one of my top favorites Random Harvest which bizarrely enough is also one of Mel Gibson's favorite films so I don't know what that says about me.

Helen Lawson. Face like a shovel and couldn’t act her way out of a paper bag.

Ray Milland and Robert Young. Completely without charm.

Lionel Barrymore except for Grand Hotel where I think he is great. When he says, 'I never thought anything so beautiful could come to me' it just kills me.

Cary Grant. I liked him in “The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer,” but otherwise he is completely overrated. No matter what movie he’s in, you never forget you’re watching CARY GRANT.

Speaking of Alfred Hitchcock stars, the only Hitchcock blonde who could actually act is Janet Leigh.

Agree with the posters who said Ingrid Bergman, Audrey Hepburn, and Jennifer Jones. Ingrid played too much breathy bimbo in her early. Based on her frequent casting with much older men, Audrey Hepburn must’ve appealed to the pedophile fantasy set—however, she did get better as she went along, like in “Two for the Road”with Albert Finley. As for Jennifer Jones...well, I could never believe that characters played by the likes of William Holden and Joseph Cotten would lose their minds over such a mousy, annoyingly helpless woman!

^^Finney^^^

Sorry for typos, too

Sophia Loren. Ugly and there's nothing special about her acting.

Love Jimmy Stewart. How fucking immature to hate someone partly based on the fact they were a Republican. He wasn't a Nazi. In fact unlike you Marys who cry when you break a fingernail, he was a war hero who fought against Nazis. I love Gary Cooper too.

I love Norma. I’ve said this here before tho: she started in the silents. If you watch her in The Women with that in mind, she looks like she’s giving a performance in a silent film!

Here's something for all you bitches!

Face like a dropped pie.

Betty Hutton and June Allison are both from the “be a tomboy by bellowing loudly!” school of acting.

I cannot stand Rosalind Russell. She has a pretense of poise.

I know this is sacrilege, but I also never liked Debbie Reynolds. She ruined “The Unsinkable Molly Brown,” with her broad, over the top performance.

She’s overrated in Singin in the Rain, too. She kept up with the dancing, but so uninteresting and bland. I have to believe that one of the reasons they put that Broadway Melody segment in (which had nothing to do with the plot) was just to get some sex appeal into the movie. Debbie certainly didn’t have it. The chemistry between Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse was great. It just underscored how forgettable Debbie was in her role.

I know she Debbie was a nice lady, but I prefer Carrie’s acting over her mom’s any day.

It's KathArine Hepburn. And she was haughty in everything she did--like she was a goddess or something.

OP is wrong ... SHOCKINGLY wrong!

Got creamed for it before, will get creamed for it again -- but I just don't get Stanwyck. Ever.

Passing right by the opinions of those who are too ignorant and lazy to spell the stars' names correctly.

[quote]Joan de Beauvoir de Havilland Fontaine Aherne Dozier Young Wright

My dear sister certainly has me beat in number of divorces, as well as miscarriages (Who would want to be stuck inside her for nine months?) but I do have two Oscars to her one.

Silly me, I forgot to sign my post, above.

Kirk Douglas. He's good in some of his earlier movies, but he just oozes sleaze. Burt Lancaster is another one, though I do love The Sweet Smell of Success. They both seem like they were not nice men, and from the stories I've heard, I think that's true.

David Niven was famous for having one of the most massive schlongs in Hollywood. At least as long as Milton Berle or Forrest Tucker and much thicker around than a coke bottle. He's OK by me!

[quote]R91 Passing right by the opinions of those who are too ignorant and lazy to spell the stars' names correctly.

But if you never liked a certain star, why would one take the trouble to learn to spell their name? You'd just be skipping over that name in any book index you were skimming, and you'd very rarely watch the title sequences to any of their movies.....

I’m here to shriek at you again, R90 - Stanwyck was a wonderful, versatile actress.

But who insured a film's box office success?

Donna it sure as hell wasn't you.

Jimmy did you want to talk to me?

"It's a Wonderful LIfe" flopped at the box-office when it was released and was re-discovered years later on tv where it got its reputation. I find Stewart to be kind of annoying, especially his voice when shrieking and running through town when he realizes he's still alive and the town is still the same.

He's good in most of the Hitchcock films, Philadelphia Story and some others, but he really doesn't radiate much chemistry with most of his female co-stars. Actually, the one he's probably best is "The Shop Around the Corner" with Margaret Sullavan, who was attractive but not a (what's she doing with HIM?) beauty like Kim Novak or Grace Kelly.

One more for Jimmy Stewart. Also: Lana Turner and Spencer Tracy.

I agree with Spencer Tracy. On the old IMDb forums I read that he was one of the greatest actors, so I watched some of his movies and I found them very boring and I found him okay as an actor, but I was confused why he was considered great (by that crowd anyway).

Some of you complaining about how distinctive old Hollywood actors were are crazy. That was one of their assets. People nowadays want their stars to be just bland cookie cutter nonenties. I'm sorry if some of you can't see the talent of Henry Fonda...Katherine Hepburn....Spencer Tracey etc. Now Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn I think we're very overrated.

Short arse Edward G Robinson.

Something creepey bout Jerry Lewis.

Clark Gable was hot stuff??? Ugh!

Ditto the leading msn drawcard Bogart - hangdog depressing to watch.

James Stewart's voice - gravel drawl on a chalkboard.

Dick Powell - a face I want to slap.

Most of the classic ladies of HW bother me fat less and I'm checking out their clothes. Comedienne Doris Day and LucIlle Ball massive exceptions to this rule - DL will disavow me!

The only movie I've seen Henry Fonda is was Jezebel with Bette Davis and I was so distracted by how he and Jane Fonda almost look like clones of one another. I knew there was a family resemblance when I saw him in photos when he was older, but in that film and at that age (32), he looks exactly like her (in male form, of course). As I said, it was distracting. Also, I don't care for his distinctive voice (same problem I have with Jimmy Stewart).

[quote]R103 ...the classic ladies of HW bother me fat less

Types fat...

All you Norma haters sound like you know nothing about her or her career. Apparently, the only movie of hers you've seen is The Women.

Shearer was playing prostitutes in silent movies, and sexually liberated women in precode Hollywood of the early 30s.

She was reluctant to play the noble housewife in The Women, knowing that it was a boring role. But MGM boss LB Mayer insisted and she gave in. And she gave a memorable performance in a thankless role.

Shearer is very good in "Barretts of Wimpole Street'. Her part in "The Women" is central, and for the most part, she's good; however, the way she does her last scene was way over the top with outstretched arms running to her husband, and director Cukor should have directed her to tone it down or do it another way. On the other hand, maybe it's the cherry on top for a witty, but campy classic.

I’m surprised by most of these answers. Who do you like instead of the actors named?

Carole Lombard was not as great a comic actress as she was a witty person in real life.

I'm not surprised about the negative responses to the leading men of the 30s: Tracy, Gable, Cooper, Cagney and most of the rest. Since it was the Depression, the audiences wanted their men to be tough, uber masculine, no-nonsense types who knew how to defend themselves and keep his dames in place. An attractive looking but boring lot, overall.

It's not until the cynical war and postwar years of the 40s that leading men get to be more complicated, anti-hero types who open up more. Bogart is king of this decade. And Tracy, Cooper, Cary Grant and Cagney get complex , sometimes humorous, sometimes sinister, roles. Also newcomers like Glenn Ford, Robert Mitchum Joseph Cotten, Robert Walker and Guy Madison show a variety of American types of men.

Oooooh I would have loved to slap the young Dick Powell in his BVDs.

It's baffling why some of these actors were really stars. Spencer Tracy? Was he any woman's masturbatory fantasy?

In fact, most male actors were bland-looking. Bogart, Stewart, Cagney, Fred Astaire...

Truly handsome actors: Joel McCrea; Errol Flynn; Paul Newman; Cary Grant; Tyrone Power; Kirk Douglas; Rock Hudson; Clint Eastwood; Brando, Clift, Gable.

I go to the movies to see attractive people; I don't want to stare at someone who looks like bus driver.

I think Cagney was the greatest actor the country ever produced. Electrifying in drama, hilarious in comedy, and he could sing and dance with the best of them.

Truly a mind blowing talent who today's actors couldn't even begin to approach in their wildest dreams.

And at 30 a very adorable sexy pocket gay.

Best stick to Magic Mike R112.

R113 you are SO right....

I wish I could turn back time... see a classic for a dime... feel a bono between my thighs... oh if I could turn back tie-ummm...

Joe E. Brown

June Allyson. She is grating.

Ronald Reagan (currently burning in Hell !!!) owns this thread, though.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Frederic March yet.

Please allow me to do so.

[quote] The only movie I've seen Henry Fonda is was Jezebel with Bette Davis and I was so distracted by how he and Jane Fonda almost look like clones of one another. I knew there was a family resemblance when I saw him in photos when he was older, but in that film and at that age (32), he looks exactly like her (in male form, of course). As I said, it was distracting.

That makes me wonder who would have been in 9 to 5 if it had been made in the 1930s.

Fred Astaire. Androgynous and creepy-looking.

WC Fields.

One of the most frightening faces ever to appear on screen. A potato body with a cactus face.

When I was young, I couldn't watch any movie before the 70s,(except for movies with Chaplin, Keaton and the Marx Bros) then I didn't even try for years. They looked to much like another world and seemed too unrealistic. Then I watched some noir movies. And then I went to a Hitchcock movie festival. Then I was beginning to wonder that I was missing something.

Then I discovered a site called "Datalounge" where they were talking about old movies that I hadn't watched. Then I watched some movies with Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn.

There are some classic film stars and films that I haven't warmed up to yet. I think I like Hitchcock films and Hepburn and Cary Grant because there is something modern, and timeless about them.

ones that I can't get into: John Wayne, Audrey Hepburn, Henry Fonda, Robert Mitchum, Gary Cooper, Sophia Loren, Humphrey Bogart and....Joan Crawford

John Wayne

Totally second rate and whenever he's on TCM I'm gone. I can't even stand hearing his voice. So annoying.

He glorified war in his movies but never served. Another republican chicken hawk.

Love Norma Shearer.

Can't stand Bette Davis or Joan Crawford.

Gene Kelly. Yes, hot and great dancer- but he was such a ham. He's not playing to the third balcony, he's playing to Riverside.

R119, I'm obsessed with Fredric March. (there's no 'e')

I simply love him, I can't explain it.

Fredric March is dreamy. I would bend over for him in a heart beat.

March was in a few fabulous movies but he was a bit too over the top at times. Still, I can't say I dislike him.

John Wayne, otoh, represented that sort of lifeless, smelly (not in a good way) masculinity I've never been interested in, and he was a terrible actor.

Roz Russell--I'm guessing that her grating bitch parts are her best for a reason June Allyson--Truly vapid; Donna Reed, who one of the nicest people in Hollywood, hated her guts because she got the roles Reed wanted; I'll bet June was screwing the producers Shearer---She had talent for a limited range of parts and Thalberg knew how to package it Milland seemed to get type cast after Lost Weekend; he actually was a better actor than that John Wayne----incapable of doing anything in modern dress. Laughable in "The Green Berets" Dick Powell---bland as a boy crooner, too B-movie-ish for his later more serious roles; he was a smart businessman, but not a great actor

Julie Andrews is at least partly to blame for the classic era of Hollywood studio filmmaking coming to a close.

Roz Russell! Yes, god she is so grating.

R39, hated that remake and all its actors, but loved The Philadelphia Story and all its actors...

Roz Russell is fabulous in His Girl Friday. Very funny and sympathetic squaring off with Cary Grant. Don't judge her before watching that classic.

And who can hate her in Auntie Mame? I still quote extensively from the script.

Fredric March is one of my favorite actors -- he's a true chameleon and played all sorts of roles and was very distinct in each. He was quite hot when he was young and also shirtless out of the shower in "The Royal Family".

Love Barbara Stanwyck too -- very versatile in that she could play screwball comedy, kitchen sink drama, melodrama, sophisticated comedy, westerns, pre-code sexy sagas, etc. Only one female star even more versatile was Irene Dunne, who could also sing Jerome Kern beautifully in "Show Boat" and other musicals.

[quote]It's baffling why some of these actors were really stars. Spencer Tracy? Was he any woman's masturbatory fantasy? In fact, most male actors were bland-looking. Bogart, Stewart, Cagney, Fred Astaire...

With the exception of Fred Astaire, the actors you mentioned were men's men, playing stereotypical masculine roles and idolized by straight male moviegoers who were enthralled not by the actors' looks, but by the characters they played.

Maurice "Thank heaven for little girls" Chevalier, creepy.

R106 "All you Norma haters"

We don't hate her, we just don't really like her, or more to the point, "get" why she was considered a classic film star.

[quote] I'm obsessed with Fredric March. (there's no 'e')

Then what's that third letter in his first name, r127? Dumbass.

[quote]R108 I’m surprised by most of these answers. Who do you like instead of the actors named?

Well, I like different classic stars for different reasons. Some for their looks along with their ability or manner (Robert Mitchum, Marilyn Monroe, Ingrid Bergman, Katharine Hepburn.) Some just for their really exceptional looks (Grace Kelly, Gene Tierney, Kim Novak, Ava Gardner). A few I like might not be the best looking in the world, but are still really talented (like Shelley Winters and Bette Davis). Some classic stars have really interesting offscreen lives and/or personas and/or places in history, even though I don't particularly want to watch them onscreen (Jean Seberg, Joan Crawford.)

Some classic stars I don't "like" so much (ie, I don't seek out their films) while I still recognize their talent (like Spencer Tracy, Myrna Loy, Fred Astaire.)

But then there are those that simply grate on you for whatever reason. They are just not your cup of tea, and there's something about them that would irritate you. For me, some of those irritating stars are Lana Turner (always really stiff, and becoming crudely average looking as she aged). And Norma Shearer. And a few others.

[quote]R122 WC Fields. One of the most frightening faces ever to appear on screen. A potato body with a cactus face.

OMG...you're so right.

[quote]R87 I know this is sacrilege, but I also never liked [bold] Debbie Reynolds. [/bold] She ruined “The Unsinkable Molly Brown,” with her broad, over the top performance.

Mmmmmm....I wouldn't necessarily single her out for the firing squad, as there are worse offenders....but there definitely something kind of crude and hackneyed about her. She was super popular with blue collar, non-discerning audiences.

I don't know if she and Dick Cavett really [italic] don't like [/italic] each other in this clip, or they had a subtle, long-running gag going over the years they played along with (like Charles Grodin and Johnny Carson did).

Ditto Jerry Lewis and Danny Kaye

Mickey Rooney

Shirley Temple

I don't even think of stupidass Jerry Lewis when I think of films and Hollywood. I just blocked him out when I was about 5 or something.

He is mentally retarded....and like Debbie Reynolds, is pitched to that really low brow segment in the audience who will just watch anything.

Debbie Reynolds horribly overacts in Molly Brown but that is Charles Walters' fault. I have no idea what he was thinking because he could be very good.

He's My Friend is one of the very best dance numbers ever put on film without question so you're not giving her enough credit right there.

Also god knows I'm sick to death of it except for beloved DL icon Jean Hagan but Singing in the Rain is a great movie musical and could not have been had she given a less than stellar performance.

And she's very good in Catered Affair.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is those of you criticizing Reynolds don't know shit from shinola.

[quote]R145 Singing in the Rain is a great movie musical and could not have been had [Debbie Reynolds] given a less than stellar performance.

Debbie Reynold's part in SINGING IN THE RAIN is far from demanding. She's alright in it. But she doesn't do anything just about any other singing/dancing starlet could have done.

She's fine, but not exceptional. I mean, for a professional performer. (By which I mean, even if we don't like them, most of these people do better in their movies than the average person would if they were thrown into playing a part.)

Bing Crosby gets a pass in my book ever since I read that he picked up a serious marijuana habit traveling with the big bands and was stoned out of his gourd most of the time on the movie sets.

As some of you have alluded to, Norma Shearer was only a big star because she was married to the Boss. She was in her 30s playing a13 year old Juliet. Judy Garland would have been perfect. And imagine Garbo as Crystal Allen and Joan Crawford as Mary Haines.

I always find Liz Taylor to be vastly overrated after she was over 22 or 23 years of age. I know we were supposed to think she was the most beautiful thing that has ever walked the earth and was a brilliant actress as well....but not me.

[quote]R149 I always find Liz Taylor to be vastly overrated after she was over 22 or 23 years of age. I know we were supposed to think she was the most beautiful thing that has ever walked the earth and was a brilliant actress as well....but not me.

She was staggeringly beautiful at about every age...but I agree she just wasn't a very natural or instinctive actress. She just gives so much. You can practically read on her face that she's always wondering if it's 5:00 o'clock and time to go home yet.

She's very good in A PLACE IN THE SUN and WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF. But really, if you make 200 movies or whatever, you've [italic] got [/italic] to be good in a few of them. And more importantly, those two roles drew very closely on who she was at those times in her life: an indulged teen beauty who wanted love, and then a classless boozer who liked to brawl.

Her face and figure were absolutely exceptional, though. And that's what audiences liked looking at....not her acting "skill."

Jean Arthur! I agree with Marlene Dietrich. She’s an ugly, ugly, ugly plucked chicken. I never understood her appeal.

Marlon Brando started out as a great actor but morphed into an indulgent, lazy, fat parody. He went from A to Z.

R152 Back in the day he even looked good with a towel on his head.

Judy Holliday

Jack Lemmon's fucking Joker face. I ever hated The Apartment.

Give me Walter Matthau any day.

Marlon Brando probably reached the nadir of his career in "Christopher Columbus: The Discovery" starring Tom Selleck.

He played a fat, waddling monk with the emotion of a wooden fencepost and read his lines from idiot cards on the set.

R149 I also never understood the Liz Taylor hype. Pretty but not exceptional in my book.

[quote]R155 Jack Lemmon's fucking Joker face. I ever hated The Apartment.

Uggh. You're right. He's really schtick-y...which works in broad comedy like SOME LIKE IT HOT, but it otherwise annoying.

Gary Cooper. God, he was boring.

Fatty Arbuckle. He was too porky for my taste.

Harpo Marx. He only had one expression. The leering eyes and open crooked mouth looking at the audience expecting the laughs.

Bettie Davis. Even when she play shop-girls she acted like she was too good to play shop-girls.

R148, in theatre and film Romeo and Juliet was always played by older actors back then. We can't judge the films by today's casting standards.

For film, thirty-four is really pushing it to play a teen. Leslie Howard is also too old. But there's just something matronly about Shearer that doesn't work. And she slathers on the sweetness and batting eyelashes (is her inspiration Shirley Temple?), as if that will make her seem young.

It doesn't.

Speaking of The Apartment, I don’t like Shirley MacLaine especially in Sweet Charity. All of that faux-naifish skipping and cutesiness.

She seems amusingly batty IRL, though.

I like her in her first film...then after that, not so much.

Eh.

Errol Flynn. Always seemed like an arrogant prick.

Susan Hayward. Always seemed like a sour bitch.

Dick Haymes. Total washout on film. AND music as far as I'm concerned.

Rudy Valee. Only in the 20s could he have become a star. One LUCKY son of a bitch.

Steve McQueen. Yeah, I know, I know...he's supposed to be the fucking king of "cool" but all I see is neuroses, squinty posturing and insecurity.

Rex Harrison: Sexy Rexy? What WAS it that made him so damn hot? The hooded , saggy eyelids? The receding hairline? The lantern jaw? Or perhaps his arch smugness? Sure makes ME wanna fuck him!

I think he only started being called Sexy Rexy after his big-titted mistress Carol Landis killed herself over being dump. It was quite the scandal, and he fled Hollywood with his startled wifey, and their child.

Being [italic] dumped! [/italic] Not dump [bold] : ( [/bold]

Poor thing.

Unless you've been sleeping for 20 years Cukor's Romeo and Juliette is a DL favorite.

And yeah Norma is wonderful in it as she is in Marie Antoinette. The fireworks ballgown in that one designed by Adrian is one of the all time great tenues and only Shearer could pull it off.

Unless Billy Wilder was directing, Jack Lemmon shamelessly overacted, mugging a lot for the camera and even Wilder wasn't always able to tamp down the schmaltz

I hated Greer Garson too. And those nostrils!

[quote]I hated Greer Garson too. And those nostrils!

Sorry, but I loved her in "Madame Curie" and "Mrs. Miniver".

The only reason Cyd Charise was cast in Singing in the Rain was because they did not think that Reynolds could handle the dancing in the Broadway Rhythm section.

If you think about it, it would have been better structurally if the Reynolds character had danced that role. It would have made her less "dewy" and more of a well matched sexual partner for the Kelly character.

"She was in her 30s playing a13 year old Juliet. Judy Garland would have been perfect."

This is why I come back to Data Lounge. Where else would you find such a thought expressed?

Oh, my people. My people.

Judy Garland as Juliet, and Mickey Rooney as Romeo.

C'mon gang, let's put on a show before we die.

I like Betty Grable, but not those nauseating Technicolor musicals that she made in the 1940s. The only movie I enjoyed with her in it was HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE.

And can I just say that Rock Hudson,despite his extraordinary(if not conventional) good looks was

BORING

AS

FUCK.

R176 Watch Rock on a big movie screen and you'll likely change your mind. His subtle style needs to be magnified to be appreciated fully,

Less is more.

An he's so much better than the overwrought James Dean in Giant.

Claude Raines. By all accounts he was s nice guy though.

I can't stand Robert Taylor. I hate his narrow face and his unappealing voice.

I see plenty of other actors I can't stand have already been mentioned.

I always felt that Richard Egan never had to be in Hollywood, except for the bosses to save some money when casting time came 'round, or to use as an insurance policy when a better male leading man was being uncooperative.

Charles Boyer.

Alan Ladd. Short & dull.

[quote]Judy Garland as Juliet, and Mickey Rooney as Romeo.

Well, the Mick DID do Shakespeare.

June Allyson. I thought it might be because the first thing I saw her in was an episode of the Love Boat before watching any of her movies, but I can see several others don't like her either. I've always enjoyed Jimmy Stewart in his films, but never found him attractive or virile enough to be a leading man type.

Most of the top classic film stars were not trained to emote in a realistic manner. They were instead all about the exaggerated mannerisms and voices that aim to be impress. Think Monroe's pursed lips and (Audrey) Hepburn's wide-bambi eyes, and how they both talk in little girl voices. People who buy the affectation call it iconic, but those who don't will find it annoying.

Gary Cooper- dumb, exposed other actors he thought were Communists out of hate, lacked any talent of any degree. He was very handsome when he was very young, but always seems to get the joke last.

Susan Hayward- dirty, mean, hard bitch in every movie.

Jennifer Jones- great lay, poor actress

Brando- never got him. All he did was take off his shirt- no talent in that

I love Jimmy Stewart - from " It's A Wonderful Life"- 1946 till " The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"-1961 he had great film after film. He was an excellent actor- more range than people give him credit for. The war changed his acting.

Bing was a good person. Helped actors of color when others didn't. Bogie did the same and was an excellent actor.

As for Debbie watch her in " The Catered Affair". She is the best actor in the movie. And " How The West Was Won".

I always say that most of these actor were famous on the big screen. The screen created their impact. The small screen makes them seem smaller than they were. Greer Garson was great actress but on the big screen she was overwhelming.

And Carole Lombard is the greatest thing in shoe leather on the screen. I love her, and Harlow. Always so real and down to earth!

Love Carole Lombard.

Greer Garson was quite charming in The Happiest Millionaire.

Greer Carson was horse faced and had a dumpy figure. She didn't act so much as she RECITED. Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne were extremely one note actors who were inexplicably gifted their Oscars.

Another vote for June Allison....while I’m at it, add Ronnie and Nancy to the list, and Jane Wyman as well...

I hate June Allyson so much I watch the scene in THE THREE MUSKETEERS where Lana Turner's character stabs her over and over again!

For the uneducated out there, Susan Hayward was a GREAT actress, nominated for Best Actress Oscar a number of times and then winning the fifth time around.

Intense, gritty, and dramatic. One of the great stars of the 1950's and into the 1960's.

She saved Valley Of The Dolls from being a total fiasco.

R191 I adore Susan Hayward, although she was mean, crazy bitch in real life. But she hardly saved VOTD, she was one of the main contributors to the fiasco.

And we love her for it.

R186, If you think Bing was a "good person, " Joan Crawford was a SAINT.

Joan Crawford

Joan Bennett

Tony Curtis

Tony Curtis and his horrible accent.

“Da bones of my fadda.”

[quote] R185 Most of the top classic film stars were not trained to emote in a realistic manner.

No, they were trained as back alley whores..."models" like Norma Shearer, who pre- Hollywood did ads for Kelly-Springfield Tires.

Joan Crawford always referred to her as [italic] Miss Lotta Miles. [/italic]

[quote]R191 Greer Carson was horse faced and had a dumpy figure.

It was either in an interview or her autobiography that Lana Turner shared some thing like, "We all had canvas dummies made up to our proportions in the wardrobe department. Greer Garson's was the largest...but she is a [italic] tall woman." [/italic]

Meow.

Yes, Bing was a sweetheart! How many of his sons killed themselves again?

[quote]R191 For the uneducated out there, Susan Hayward was a GREAT actress...Intense, gritty, and dramatic.

If I may be so bold, below is absolutely the worst acting I have ever seen from a major star. Dear god....!

[italic] "You cowardly 'hero'! You're no hero! You're a drunk! A drunk! A drunk!" [/italic]

It's an embarrasment. (And Bette Davis comes into the next scene saying, "Well, hard at work, I see.") (I wonder if she added that line, for the special occassion.)

[quote]R189 Not to nitpick, but I cannot help it: Ava Gardner didn't sing in "Show Boat"...Ava did, however, sing two songs on the official soundtrack. And before anyone else says it - I know, I know....Mary!

Yes. They needed her permission to put the dubbed vocals on the album, since her likeness would be used on the cover.

And she was like, "Yuh... [italic] no." [/italic]

Hayward saving VOTD? She was part of what made it campy---that silly monologue in the ladies' room? that dumb song with the plastic mobile?

It’s truly shitastic. The real acting was done by those watching that and keeping a straight face.

The Harvey Girls

Starring In

Back Alley Whores

J'adore Greer Garson. Random Harvest is the bomb diggity!

Sophia Loren

Elizabeth Taylor

Bette Davis

Shirley fucking McClaine.......she sucked. Except for a few movies, i can't stand her. she is so full of her selves.

bogart.......never got it.

hepburn.....can't stand her.

I like MacLaine a lot in her movies, but she really comes across as the most self absorbed piece of shit as a human being in her interviews and how she treated her daughter.

You could never tell in that she is so warm, sweet and appealing in so many of her roles but what a horror.

Huge Hollywood phony. No sympathy for anyone else.

But what a beautiful heartbreaking performance she gives in Some Came Running.

I remember MacLaine totally outclassing Audrey Hepburn in the Children's Hour. She was only a bit younger than Hepburn, but was so natural that she made the other woman's performance look mannered and dated in comparison. She was also the one who got nominated for an Oscar, despite Hepburn being the bigger star then.

McClaine's part in THE CHILDRENS HOUR is much much better to begin with than Hepburns. The role of Karen isn't very exciting.

Sterling Hayden.....that POS cop in the Godfather....he always looked like he just smelled something really bad.

Never, ever liked anything about Gene Kelly, from his face to his dancing and singing and his gag inducing ACTING.

I was always a Donald O'Connor/Dan Dailey/Gene Nelson fan when it came to big dance numbers.

I thought that Gene Nelson was so handsome too.

Miss Streisand- can't act, can't dance, sings through her nose, comes off as full of herself, always acts as if her nails are wet, and is so ugly she makes Dale Evans look sexy.

And Bing didn't contribute to his sons' death. They would all products of a mother who drank when she was pregnant. Bing wasn't a great father but he didn't destroy their brains in the womb. Dixie was the true villian. Henry Fonda was a shitty father too but his kids are alive. As are Joan's ,Lucy's, and Judy's

meryl

absence may make the heart fonder.....looong absence

Bing was known as an alcoholic psycho with major rage issues.

Two sons committed suicide. He was known to come home from the studio and beat the crap out of them.

All four sons were disasters. Every one else you mentioned was cold and withholding but except for Joan they didn't physically torture their children. And Joan's son died relatively early.

Anthony Quinn bored the absolute shit out of me in anything he was in, including Zorba the boring fucking Greek. Never got the appeal.

R212, I’ve always thought that Donald O’Conner showed up Gene Kelly in their dance together in Singing In the Rain

True but Donald O'Conner was never hot or sexy. Nobody was going to keep his picture on a wall or care about who he was dating.

Neither was Astaire but he was a genius.

RE 212: I've always preferred Fred Astaire's dancing to Gene Kelly's

[quote] I like MacLaine a lot in her movies, but she really comes across as the most self absorbed piece of shit as a human being in her interviews and how she treated her daughter.

She did nothing to stop her niece from being transed.

Citizen Kane

Susan Hayward was the only one who could really act in Valley Of The Dolls, given the poor material she had to work with.

When the producers contacted her after Judy Garland had been fired from the film she told them she would take the role on one condition - that Garland would be paid her full salary for the movie. She was a dame who had integrity.

R222 What about me?! I did a hell of a job in that movie. Should have been nominated for an Oscar!

And Mackenzie Astin should have been in [italic]Tomorrowland[/italic] instead of George Clooney, R223, then it might have been watchable.

I'm not sure how Laurence Harvey became a movie star. He was neither good looking or a good actor.

R225 With an exasperated Elizabeth Taylor in Night Watch.

R226 Why am I making this movie with you?!

R209, neither one was nominated that year.

[quote] R222 When the producers contacted her after Judy Garland had been fired from the film she told them she would take the role on one condition - that Garland would be paid her full salary for the movie. [Hayward] was a dame who had integrity.

Well, at least she didn't walk off with the wardrobe...and then proceed to not-so-subtly wear it onstage in concerts around the world for the rest of her life (!)

NIght Watch is very er watchable. Harvey's not so bad, and it's one of Liz's best from her later years.

Harvey was great in the Manchurian Candidate. You've got to give him credit, even though he played a sociopath that was very close to his own personality, from what I've read.

Oh my god...has anyone mentioned LEE MARVIN yet?? He's like the male version of Martha from [italic] Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf [/italic] ... a braying, uncouth mess.

I can kind of tolerate him in PAINT YOUR WAGON because at least he's a strong contrast to Clint Eastwood.And he ends up being kind of sweet. But I tried for the upteenth time to watch RAINTREE COUNTY (I've never made it all the way through that endless snooze-fest....and Lee Marvin's being his usual blustery, annoying self in one of the first scenes....and I was like "Oh god, I JUST CAN'T!"

[quote] R212 Never, ever liked anything about Gene Kelly, from his face to his dancing and singing and his gag inducing ACTING.

So funny. Yeah...I'm okay with him, but a little goes a long way.

In the 1990 book DIRECTED BY VINCENT MINELLI, the author is talking about AN AMERICAN IN PARIS and says something like, "Gene Kelly plays his usual role, that of a brash but humble, sunny, boy-next-door Everyman... [italic] who just happens to be a genius." [/italic]

That description always makes me laugh...

[QUOTE]Norma Shearer

" By the time the cameraman and the lighting director got everything set up so that she (Shearer) wouldn't photograph cross eyed (then) half the day was gone ! "

-Joan Crawford

For the baby gays here who don't know the scoop on Old Hollywood: Shearer and Crawford were rival stars at MGM in the 1920s and 30s and 40s. Joan had to fuck and fight for every step up the ladder of success in that zoo, while Norma was [italic] conveniently [/italic] married to the boss (Irving Thalberg.) (Some feel this is the only reason she had a real career at all.)

Norma was established when Joan arrived in town, and playing both twins in a silent film, where one twin was "good" (ie, a society lady) and the other "bad" (ie, a cheap whore.) They needed someone with Norma's height and build to play the back of her head in the scenes where the two twins appear together....and the lucky winner was newcomer JOAN. (The two actresses also appear together in profile in a few flashes in the movie.)

Apparently Norma treated newcomer Joan like the cheap, uncouth starlet she was during that shoot, and Joan never forgot the slight. Then it got worse over the ensuing years because most of the best parts Joan wanted at the studio went to....dear Norma (Mrs. Irving Thalberg.)

So, they detested each other. I don't know what Norma's problem with Joan was...unless she just instinctively sensed that Joan Crawford was a crazy person.

Re: R235

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

LADY OF THE NIGHT (1925) MGM silent. 90 minutes

Cast: Norma Shearer, Malcolm McGregor, George K. Arthur, Fred Esmelton, Dale Fuller, Lew Harvey, Betty Morrissey, Gwen Lee, Aryel Houwink. (Joan is uncredited as Shearer's onscreen double.)

Credits: Adapted by Alice D.G. Miller from the story by Adela Rogers St. Johns. Director: Monta Bell. Camera: Andre Barlatier. Editor: Ralph Dawson. Art Director: Cedric Gibbons.

Plot Summary: Norma Shearer was very much an up-and-coming young actress when she played a dual role in this MGM drama. Molly, a girl of the streets (Shearer), is getting out of reform school at the same time that Florence (also Shearer) is graduating from a finishing school. While at a dance hall, Molly has a run-in with a lusty young man, but she is rescued by David, a young inventor whose workshop is nearby (Malcolm McGregor). As a result, Molly becomes David's friend, and she is the one who insists that David sell his invention -- a safecracking device -- to the banking industry instead of to a gang of crooks who have offered him a percentage of their take. Through the bankers, David meets Florence, and soon both she and Molly are in love with him. David believes that Florence is the right girl for him, but when she discovers the existence of Molly, she insists that Molly was first. Molly, realizing that Florence would be a better match for David, returns to Chunky, a young man who, like her, comes from the street (George K. Arthur). Shearer's stand-in for this picture was a very ambitious young starlet by the name of Lucille LeSueur -- better known later on as Joan Crawford. ~ Janiss Garza, All Movie Guide

Notes:

• Though uncredited, and usually not seen except for her back, this is Joan Crawford's film debut.

• When the film played NYC's Capitol theater, the musical overture was Tchaikovsky's "Fourth Symphony"; other music included "Endless Waters," by Robert C. Bruce.

R233 shearer did have kind of wonky eyes...!

From her New York Times obituary:

[quote] [italic] In her heyday...Gossips said that skilled camera work hid a flaw in her beauty -which was that her eyes were not perfectly aligned. Her eyes became a delicate subject in M-G-M circles. A director who was so crass as to complain 'She is cross-eyed' was punished by being sent to film a western on the Mojave Desert. [/italic]

Liz was very good in Night Watch, and her acting style there fitted the 70s. Too bad she wasn't getting recognition for that performance. She did, however, got a Golden Globes nomination next year or so for the hated Ash Wednesday, and won the Henrietta Award World Film Favorite Female Award that same year. It was the same award Monroe won in 1962 and Lawrence Harvey in 1968. In hindsight, the Henrietta really do seem to be the "goodbye your career is over" award for ex-stars floundering at the box-office.

A little bit of Gene Kelly goes a long, long way.

Gene Nelson was in every way his superior as a singer, dancer or actor. Nelson is hotter - way hotter - and equally good looking. But MGM was heavily invested in Kelly and Nelson was at the smaller studio.

Warners was hardly a what you would call a smaller studio.

Day was a huge musical star there. Nelson started doing major musicals a little bit too late in the game when musicals were going out of style and as somebody pointed out had an unfortunate first name.

As well though marvelous he simply did not have enough charisma to be a major star.

A little of Kelly might go a long way for you but just look at For Me and My Girl on youtube. His smile when he looks at Garland is an absolute killer.

No one called it "a smaller studio." It was smaller than MGM. That's all.

[quote] The only thing that made her a star was opening her legs.

[quote] —Joan,

Joan, what is it they say about people who live in glass houses? Even if they are decorated by Billy Haines...

You were the one who used the term 'smaller studio.'

If you want to argue about your use of the article have a party.

Crawford said that Norma Shearer was much more cross eyed than Karen Black.

I didn’t like the dance routine at r24. I found it too mannered and affected. The reason I think Donald O’Conner outdanced Kelly in Singin In....is that he made it look so effortless and fun, whereas Kelly and Gene Nelson looked as if they were trying too hard...

[quote]R240 In hindsight, the Henrietta really do seem to be the "goodbye your career is over" award for ex-stars floundering at the box-office.

Hahaha. I see scared movie stars giving their mail boxes the side eye each morning : o

[italic]Box Office Poison[/italic]

Let's talk Audrey Hepburn, timeless beauty and style icon.

She truly was stunning in that brief between 1954 and 57, where the studio-designed power brows, thick lashes, full lips, and slicked-back hair worked wonders to make her big square face seemed small. Despite her beauty being completely reliant on heavy, highly-specific styling, Hepburn captivated on screen and that was what mattered to the audiences.

But why oh why did she persist on taking young girl roles even as she got older?

Yes, Hepburn remained thin in her thirties, even thinner than in the 50s. But thin does not equate youth, not when your shoulders went from toned to bony and your waist hip ratio vanished. That, and her chain-smoking had her skin aging faster than most of her peers.

She looked more hardened society wife than single girl with her beehive hair and thin brows in 1960's Breakfast at Tiffany's. In 1964's My Fair Lady she appeared more old bat than flower girl, that with the poor people getup emphasizing her crow lines and sheer scrawniness. By 1966's to Steal a Million not even Givenchy couture could make her look young a day under fourty-five, and she was still prancing around like some little girl! She was still playing the ingenue when others around her age were tackling mature roles. No wonder she had to retire by 67. After all, the hagploitation flick that was Wait Until Dark must have finally made her realize her gamine days were over.

More than her mannered acting, Audrey's refusal to act her (very apparent) age on film throughout the 60s is what opens this otherwise elegant star to criticisms of being "twee."

[quote]r242 Warners was hardly a what you would call a smaller studio.

It's still big! It's my eyes that got small.

[quote]R249 Despite her beauty being completely reliant on heavy, highly-specific styling, Hepburn captivated on screen and that was what mattered to the audiences.

It's funny how there are things that irritate me even with the stars I love. I guess it's like your roster of friends...they all get on your nerves sometimes. Everyone has pluses and minuses. I think Jane Fonda's about the only performer I just admire 100%....a former covergirl who can act circles around anyone she's in a scene with, and can be completely natural without guise when she wants. She is seamless.

But as to Hepburn....she's enchanting. I wish people wouldn't get so bent out of shape, denying she was anorexic. Shirley McClaine said when they were shooting their movie together, Hepburn would eat a hard boiled egg for lunch. That's not normal.

But she had more natural talent than a lot of the other young beauties of her generation: Taylor, Novak, Kelly, et all. It would have been fascinating to see her in a movie with Marilyn Monroe, because their styles were so completely different!

I wonder if Audrey would have finally hit Marilyn upside the head with her purse.

I love Hepburn in her 60s films.

I mean her in that black dress in Tiffanys is inarguably one of the most iconic images in film history and for good reason.

Even she said in MFL for the first time in her life she thought she looked beautiful.

Nobody thinks Million is a good film but that opening shot of her in those mod sunglasses is wonderful and in that Givenchy black lace getup she wears to meet O'Toole in the bar she's a knockout.

Damn, but she’s got some big feet in the pic at r249.....

Yeah R253 just the right size to kick you in the balls with.

[quote]R245 You were the one who used the term 'smaller studio.'

If you want to argue about your use of the article have a party.

Girls, GIRLS!

Just smooth down your ruffled feathers, R242 . When R241 said "Nelson was at the smaller studio," she meant in relation to MGM. It would be like Olivia de Havilland saying "Joan is the younger." It doesn't mean Joan Fontaine is [italic]young[/italic], it just means between those two, Joan is the younger sister.

LB can suck my dick.

[quote] Damn, but she’s got some big feet in the pic at [R249]

Yes. She was embarrased by them.

Monroe thought her own arms were too fat, K. Hepburn hated her scrawny neck, and Vivien Leigh was always trying to hide her big hands with drapey bracelets, and gloves. Neither Joan Crawford or Faye Dunaway had the best teeth.

And has anyone mentioned Norma Shearer's crossed eyes?

Re reply 251: I actually think Hepburn and Monroe had fairly similar styles. Despite Hepburn playing gamine and Monroe the showgirl, both used mannerisms and voices to act the youngest, most innocent versions of their respective onscreen personas.

R253 Re reply 251: I actually think Hepburn and Monroe had fairly similar styles. Despite Hepburn playing gamine and Monroe the showgirl, both used mannerisms and voices to act the youngest, most innocent versions of their respective onscreen personas.

I see what you mean. I think of AH as being more brisk and quick-witted, though in her persona, and MM as being more dreamy and purely sensual.

I also meant their approach to filmmaking was so different. Hepburn was a control freak professional who was never late a minute in her life, probablly....while MM was more, er, shall we say, "casual." (When she had her period and was depressed, she'd just laze around in bed and have her maid periodically change the stained sheets. I can't QUITE see out little Audrey doing that!)

Got your meaning, 259. It does seem like AH and MM in the same film would turn it into Baby Jane 2.0. Though you never know with these old movie queens. AH and Liz Taylor were like day and night, and they were long time friends. Granted, they've never worked together on the same film set . . .

Why was OP grayed out? What was so offensive?

I'm a huge Norma fan and even I don't get it.

Audrey in Breakfast At Tiffany's.

How To Steal A Million.

The glasses.

Joan Crawford and Norma Shearer could never be friend, mainly because of Crawford insecurities.

According to Norma, Joan wasn’t fond of her from day one. In 1955, Norma wrote of their first encounter in her unpublished autobiography:

“I found myself sitting in a car and in the other corner was a girl with the most beautiful eyes. They were the biggest eyes I had ever seen. But they didn’t trust me. I could see that. They never have.”

Joan forever held a grudge. Even in her famous Town Hall interview from 1973, she got her digs in, "She slept with the boss, what could I do?"

Here's a photo from around 1970, with the still working Joan hugging the long-retired Norma in a restaurant. She did have respect for her talents.

[quote]Damn, but she’s got some big feet in the pic at

She was sensitive about that as well and tried to utilize simple black pumps, or flats so that there wouldn't be attention drawn to her feet.

Something insufferably smug about William Hurt.

Marlee Matlin says their relationship started to fall apart the night she came home with an Oscar, and he didn't have one.

I do like him in BODY HEAT, but can barely watch him in anything else.

I like William Hurt in most movies, I used to love The Accidental Tourist when I was a kid and it's a film that's stuck with me for some reason. He's someone I associate with my cinematic education so it's hard for me to dislike him.

Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh both do nothing for me. Same with their daughter.

Norma Shearer was a bore and a snob. Have you seen her before her crossed eye was corrected? No wonder she married the boss.

June Allyson with her sing-song appeal is just grating to me. Her Jo in Little Women is the worst one.

Errol Flynn was handsome but his movies are forgettable.

Mickey Rooney. How he became a star tells you everything about early (ish) movie audiences. This guy would the comic side kick at best these days. I also dislike his movies.

John Wayne - he couldn't act

Humphrey Bogart - his face made me sick to my stomach and that voice

Lauren Bacall - married to above and couldn't act. Nasty persona

Joanne Woodward - that 'draggy' , monotone voice.

[QUOTE]Mickey Rooney. How he became a star tells you everything about early (ish) movie audiences. This guy would the comic side kick at best these days. I also dislike his movies.

Ah, well let this elder gay fill you in: Rooney was an absolute favorite of F.D.R.' and anything a president likes takes on popularity. Even McDONALD'S is doing better right now because our current president loves their food. After F.D.R. died, Rooney's star began to fade. He was however a top draw for some time at the end of the 1930s - early 1940s.

In both of the 60s Audrey pics upthread she was wearing large sunglasses in place of power-brows to balance her square face. But without enlarging her lips with pencil like she did in the 50s, there's nothing to balance out her big nostrils and they showed. It was especially bad in the pic from Steal a Million.

Audrey with the right styling for her in 1954:

Rooney was a master entertainer. Of course, you're still free to like him.

Here he is in SUGAR BABIES with Ann Miller. You may still not like him after watching this, but you'll know something of what he could do and why he was famous.

Young Audrey before the Hollywood makeup and hair:

R273 That nose is awful.

John Wayne is insufferable in all his movies. Always plays the same wooden character.

And, he was a creep of the first order.

" Let me tell you something, you take John out of a saddle and you've got trouble ! "

-Joan Crawford to Luella Parsons when asked about the WWII spy drama she was making with the Duke

[R274]Audrey's makeover - a combined effort by top 1950s Hollywood stylists and THE Givenchy - was nothing short of magical.

Though, the graceful posturing that made couture looked good on her was all her own, as she had a dance background.

She really wasn't THAT thin in her youth, with full thighs and muscled shoulders and all. Lean fit is how I'd describe it. It was only after 1959 that she started treading into scrawny territory. By Two for the Road she frankly looked like a skeleton weighted down by the harsh mod look. She never regained the weight. Fortunately for her, the thinness appeared to have been a purely aesthetic issue for her. For all appearances, Audrey had retained her physical strengths unto those last years with UNCEF. It takes stamina moving about those harsh environments.

[quote]R277 Fortunately for her, the thinness appeared to have been a purely aesthetic issue for her.

Well, keeping her weight down had to do with her emplyability, as well.

Before Hepburn made any Hollywood films, she was hired to make her Broadway debut in GIGI while still living in Europe. She sailed over to New York, but was unfortunately so thrilled by all the unrationed food available onboard the ship that she gained serious weigh eating many, many chocolates. It might have been as much as 40 lbs, I'm not sure.

Anyway, the horrified producers wanted to fire her, and she went on a crash diet to slim down again in time for opening night.

I suspect that's why Hepburn was so very weight conscious for the rest of her life; she knew she'd almost blown her whole career and wasn't about to let that happen again.

Was Audrey a Jewess?

Re[278]: " suspect that's why Hepburn was so very weight conscious for the rest of her life; she knew she'd almost blown her whole career and wasn't about to let that happen again. "

Well, gaining 40+ lbs on chocolate and sweets sounds like a ticket to type II diabetes, so losing it might have been a good thing for young Audrey health-wise.

I personally believed Audrey was fit and healthy in the 50s. Just that she was watchful of her weight like every other young actor of the day. She was toned even in Sabrina, where she wore shorts displaying well-fleshed thighs with no gaps. She showed off lean but muscled shoulders and arms in those dresses. The sheer athleticism she displayed in Funny Face's modern dance scene defined fit beauty.

It was only after the birth of her first child in 1960 that she came back on screen starting to look underweight. I think instead of a fear of weight gain, Audrey is the sort who lose appetite under stress and unhappiness. She hit her skeletal phrase in 2 for Road and Wait until Dark when her marriage was on the rocks. I mean she was about to retire and yet she was thinner than ever, so the thinness can't be career-related only.

Rooney could be both terrific or obnoxious in those early musicals. He was a force of nature. And in those Andy Hardy movies he could be both charming and was quite a good dramatic actor.

How could you not like him with Garland in I Wish I were in Love Again? They are a knockout. After that he took a header off a cliff becoming totally obnoxious. Except for...

Sugar Babies which was really a sensational night's entertainment the kind which no longer exits.

This was at the height of Miller's lacquered period where everyone thought she was a joke and everyone wished Rooney would just go away.

And damned if those two MGM pros didn't pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Is it just me, or does pre-Hollywood AH resemble Natalie Portman in the above photos?

R270 thank you for the information. I knew he was well liked but I did not know about the FDR bit. From what I understand he was also the favorite of Louis B Mayer so that would explain a lot as well. Plus, his movies made money.

r270 Well, let me fill you in: Rooney was a total homophobe. When asked by an interviewer if he thought L.B. Mayer was gay Rooney went absolutely nuts and said how could anyone imply or say anything so awful about such a great man such as Mayer.

As can happen when a person has a religious experience under unusual circumstances, intemperate remarks began spewing forth from Rooney's mouth, some of which were homophobic:

"If it's immorally wrong, it's not normal. Jesus Christ said, "The effeminate are an abomination to me". Are you aware of that? I don't watch the [Ellen DeGeneres] show. I wish her all kinds of luck. Except that I'm not a fan. But there are a lot of people who aren't fans of Mickey Rooney and you can't please everyone."

So odd that Rooney was a homophobe when the Freed unit for which he did some of his most popular films had more queers than the Everard Baths on a Friday night.

And he was “Best Friends Forever” with JUDY Garland.

She must’ve been one tough piece of work. I haven’t seen one account one friend that didn’t leave her in the gutter

Margaret Sullivan and her pronounced overbite.

Rooney was an annoying, self-centered person and for every "Sugar Babies" there was a failed, unfunny tv series or a film that went unreleased.

There was only one "Sugar Babies" -- granted it was really good, but Rooney apparently rarely turned down anything.

R287 Not being a cunt, but could you re-type your second sentence? Can you extrapolate further? Thanks!

I like Marilyn Monroe for what she was: a 1950s celebrity bombshell who gained iconic status through her commercial hit movies and mysterious death. But the online crazies who go around proclaiming (without proof) how she is a better actress and person than this or that Oscar-capable actress are just tacky. Those who try to make her a "real woman" champion like the Dove "models" are even worse. Seriously, if the Monroe Estate interns are behind this, they need to stop before making Marilyn appear what she feared most being in life: a joke.

Marilyn Monroe was actually a better actress than most. Anne Bancroft made a few films in the 1950s before returning to New York (and her later success), and she found in her experience that the young Monroe was the only one in town who did anything "real". (And this was in the cheap melodrama DON'T BOTHER TO KNOCK.)

I do agree that MM wasn't a plus-size woman at all; she had a tiny waist. Norman Norell said it was like "dressing a guitar."

Always thought Mickey Rooney was a closet case - that's why he married eight times. He was also an addict like Judy.

I know he's an icon and starred in some classic films like Casablanca and To Have and Have Not but Bogart's appeal has always been lost on me. His schtick was that lisp and that weathered face that always seemed so world weary. Yeah, he might have been an archetype of a certain kind of man but I just never found him interesting onscreen. No spark.

Steve McQueen who was pretty, but just seemed to stare his way through roles. Lauren Bacall, has mean eyes. Katherine Hepburn, with her quavery voice. Didn't like Audley Hepburn movies either, but liked her work with Unicef and thought she was a nice lady.

In Hollywood nobody is nice.

This 1 minute long clip sums up Audrey quite well.

Sofia Loren!

[quote]Marlee Matlin says their relationship started to fall apart the night she came home with an Oscar, and he didn't have one.

Hurt won Best Actor the year before for KISS OF THE SPIDER WOMAN. In fact, he presented Matlin with her Oscar, as is customary for the previous winners to do.

Incidentally, Eva Peron's favorite actress growing up was Norma Shearer. She especially idolized how Shearer 'married the boss.' However, later as an actress, she fashioned herself after Lana Turner.