Eliza Dushku Molested on the set of True Lies

[Quote] I remember how Joel Kramer grew cold with me in the ensuing weeks, how everything felt different on the set. And I remember how soon-after, when my tough adult female friend (in whom I had confided my terrible secret on the condition of a trade that she let me drive her car around the Hollywood Hills) came out to the set to visit and face him, later that very same day, by no small coincidence, I was injured from a stunt-gone-wrong on the Harrier jet. With broken ribs, I spent the evening in the hospital. To be clear, over the course of those months rehearsing and filming True Lies, it was Joel Kramer who was responsible for my safety on a film that at the time broke new ground for action films. On a daily basis he rigged wires and harnesses on my 12 year old body. My life was literally in his hands: he hung me in the open air, from a tower crane, atop an office tower, 25+ stories high. Whereas he was supposed to be my protector, he was my abuser. Why speak out now? I was 12, he was 36. It is incomprehensible. Why didn’t an adult on the set find his predatory advances strange — that over-the-top special attention he gave me. Fairly early on he nicknamed me “Jailbait” and brazenly called me by this name in a sick flirty way in front of others (at the time, I remember asking one of my older brothers what it meant). Sure, I’ve come to understand the terrible power dynamics that play into whistle-blowing by “subordinates” against persons in power, how difficult it can be for someone to speak up. But I was a child. Over the years I’ve really struggled as I’ve wondered how my life might have been different if someone, any one grown-up who witnessed his sick ways, had spoken up before he lured me to that hotel room. Years ago, I had heard second hand that Joel Kramer was “found out” and forced to leave the business. I learned recently that in fact he still works at the top of the industry. And a few weeks ago, I found an internet photo of Joel Kramer hugging a young girl. That image has haunted me near nonstop since. I can no longer hide what happened. Hollywood has been very good to me in many ways. Nevertheless, Hollywood also failed to protect me, a child actress. I like to think of myself as a tough Boston chick, in many ways I suppose not unlike Faith, Missy, or Echo. Through the years, brave fans have regularly shared with me how some of my characters have given them the conviction to stand up to their abusers. Now it is you who give me strength and conviction. I hope that speaking out will help other victims and protect against future abuse. With every person that speaks out, every banner that drops down onto my iphone screen disclosing similar stories/truths, my resolve strengthens. Sharing these words, finally calling my abuser out publicly by name, brings the start of a new calm. Eliza Dushku

Good lord she must be obnoxious as hell when she's drunk.

*blah blah blah blah*

Yikes

I totally believe her.

[quote]Fairly early on he nicknamed me “Jailbait” and brazenly called me by this name in a sick flirty way in front of others

Disgusting. He should be hounded out of the City and locked up before the day ends.

R2, oh please. I feel sorry she had to go through this and I applaud her for finally telling it. I've defended Bryan Singer here many times since I believe guys over 16 generally are capable of making up their minds about their sex lives but geez, this Kramer guy seems to be a true pedophile.

So many of these stories have a common theme of parents not doing their duty to protest their children. What the hell is wrong with these parents?

R7 I'm going to go with money.

Good for her for speaking out!

Joel Kramer........ Why are most of these pedophiles/molesters Jewish? I don't get it.......

The parents sold her out. Arrest them.

I think she wanted it.

Oops, I meant to say "protect" their children. But parents who "protest" their children are awful as well.

R10 FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM FUCK OFF NAZI SCUM

Here are some of Kramer's recent credits. So he's doing extremely well these days.

His IMDB bio

Look at this tweet of his from May of last year:

[quote]Kathy Griffin, you crossed the line!

[quote]I guess respect and decorum do not equate in your choices. Your radio active now.

Who's "radio active" now, bitch?

Screenshot of his vandalized IMDb bio.

Another witch hunt

[Quote] And I remember how soon-after, when my tough adult female friend (in whom I had confided my terrible secret on the condition of a trade that she let me drive her car around the Hollywood Hills) came out to the set to visit and face him, later that very same day, by no small coincidence, I was injured from a stunt-gone-wrong on the Harrier jet.

JLC??

[quote]Why are most of these pedophiles/molesters Jewish?

Because America is a deeply bigoted country and that's what the media and DL focus on.

The little slut shouldn't have been wearing revealing clothes. You can't inflame a man's passions, then play hard to get.

Nobody forgives this kind of behavior towards a child, it's repulsive -- but you can't compare this to what Franco is accused of doing. The "Hang 'Em All!" mentality is a major problem and will ultimately diffuse the movement altogether.

Damn! For a child - and yes, 12 is a child - to experience that is untenable. Dusku's account was so vivid, I could visualize the encounters - including that hellish cab ride. I do not have words for Kramer. JFC.

[quote]Nobody forgives this kind of behavior towards a child, it's repulsive

Want to bet? Deplorables would and have defended their overlord Cheeto.

FUCK OFF, R2. You fucking creep.

Didn't she also just have some drug issues? Sounds like that was how she coped.

This is a different can of rotten fish. One of the saddest parts of her account is that her parents were not "ready" to deal with her molestation. Are you fucking kidding me? She needs to reevaluate what her parents are to her because it is pretty clear to everyone else they sold her out.

Joel Kramer needs to be dragged by the balls into country county jail.

Her parents are well educated too... but also Mormon.

Fuck him and I hope more of his victims come forward.

Is there a statute of limitations for child molestation? I don’t believe there is. Miami PD needs to pick this guy up, NOW. Wherever he is, detain him and bring him in.

There needs to be justice. This shit right here cannot go unpunished.

Tar and feather him and run him outta down eh R28 R30?

He fucking injured them, on purpose. This is beyond the fucking pale and he needs fucking jail time. Yeah, R32, it's fucking mob justice. For TOO FUCKING LONG we've relied on a system of justice that let us down. Watch out, honey, or a pitchfork might find it's way up your ass.

[quote]Her parents are well educated too... but also Mormon.

Education has shit to do with this, and does not correlate with doing the right thing. In such a situation, going into protective mode ought to be the given for any child's guardian, regardless of background.

[quote] Want to bet? Deplorables would and have defended their overlord Cheeto.

I don't remember any Deplorables giving a standing ovation to Roman Polanski. We've discussed him on DL in the past and there were several that thought, "Oh, the girl has forgiven him, so everyone else should too."

I would like to think that this is not true, because I've worked with Joel. And with pre-pubescent/teen girls on set (which he seemed very respectful of). This saddens me.

[quote]Is there a statute of limitations for child molestation? I don’t believe there is. Miami PD needs to pick this guy up, NOW. Wherever he is, detain him and bring him in.

Apparently it's 30 years after the victim's 18th birthday.

Someone should let her know.

R32, you really don’t get it, do you? People don’t make this kind of shit up. It’s very rare that someone does that.

This young lady has had a pretty decent career. She’s not unknown, and she’s not broke. She has worked a lot. She has absolutely no reason to say something like this unless it’s true.

[quote]Education has shit to do with this, and does not correlate with doing the right thing. In such a situation, going into protective mode ought to be the given for any child's guardian, regardless of background.

Obviously. The point is both her parents were Educators and her father was an Administrator with Boston Public Schools. They SHOULD have known better and they SHOULD have done better.

Well if her parents were Mormon, the last thing she would talk to her parents is about sex.

“And with pre-pubescent/teen girls on set (which he seemed very respectful of). This saddens me.”

You never know what people are like behind closed doors.

So my guess is he”ll issue a denial until the number of his victims becomes to high to deny?

[quote]I would like to think that this is not true, because I've worked with Joel.

So you would like to think this isn't true *not* because a 12-year-old girl wouldn't be sexually molested in that case but because you happened to have worked with him and it would dash your positive image of him? Wonderful priorities you have there.

Her story resonates with me the most out of all the #metoo accounts because something very similar happened to, well, me too.

The details so vivid in her mind are what make this seem so painfully real because the experience is so intense and so wrong that it gets engraved in the mind.

It’s also not lost on me that she is now the age of the molester when he assaulted her. There is a strange, almost queasy sense of becoming an adult and knowing the gulf that separates adult from child, and the machinations that are used to cross it.

I don’t know the details about her family, and though I do think that they failed her, I don’t blame them because there is always more to the story. We are at a point now, like right now, where things are much more open and transparent. But there is a very wrongly placed sense of shame that cannot be discounted when questioning why a child (or perhaps even a parent) does not act.

I know I’m experiencing a Mary! moment, but I had tears in my eyes when I read her story, especially because I know how many people have one very similar.

Have Arnold or Jamie Lee commented?

R33 R38 would no doubt damn those who don't agree with their string the fucker up mentality as "deplorables". When, in reality, their seething mob mentality is equally deplorable.

[quote]Watch out, honey, or a pitchfork might find it's way up your ass.

No surprise that a deplorable baying for blood is also a dumbfuck. The two go hand in hand.

i t s

“When, in reality, their seething mob mentality is equally deplorable.”

Stop being hysterical. Most posters are just posting that they believe her. You seem very old school: unless an accusation against a man is not being immediately dismissed as lies, there’s a “seething mob mentality”.

As a straight female, I'd like to add a bit of perspective. I was molested in my early teens. Although the perpetrator "only" rubbed himself against me (no penetration) it was an extremely traumatic experience. And, btw, my mother reacted by chiding me that I should have dressed differently (this was in the era of short shorts) I think that, in general, men and women don't experience sexual molestation in the quite the same way. I really do think this is the case, so thought I'd throw in a female perspective for anyone who may not understand how truly devastating these kinds of incidents can be, especially to a young girl. My heart goes out to Eliza.

Oh, fuck off again, r45. I’m not advocating that he be strung up. I am vehemently advocating that he go in for questioning. It’s called accountability.

You’re the deplorable, not me. Nowhere in my universe is it OK to molest children, or get away with it.

He’s done it more than once, I’m sure. How many movies has this guy worked on that were filmed in impoverished, Asian countries? I bet PLENTY. And if not, I’d love to be the FBI agent who pulled up his passport history for the last 40 years.

r26 you sound really aggressive. You should look into anger management classes.

R7 I’m part of an online group for extra work. Being in the group has been very eye opening as to how parents behave. The guy who casts the extras posts “need 5 kids Tuesday” and there at least 20 parents (usually moms) who instead of just following the submit instructions, make it a worship session— they elevate this guy to God status— which he never responds to or engages with but they do it every time.

The first time you do extra work you realize it has absolutely no chance of getting you anywhere. For a kid who’s best chance to earn $100 would be months of mowing lawns, it’s a quicker option - but that’s it. These parents have been on a set and seen exactly what it really is but they still work overtime to crawl up the extra guy’s ass, to get in his favor — can you imagine what they’d be willing to do for someone with real power to make their little angel a star? I think there are a whole lot of parents willing and ready to ignore things in order to get their kid famous.

If you go to Eliza's Facebook page where she posted this you can see her mother responding to critics in the comments:

"Judith Dushku I accept your condemnation as Eliza's mother. No, it was not her career that I feared for, as that meant nothing to me. I was afraid of Joel Kramer, too. And it was years later that I finally understood fully what really happened. At the time, Eliza was too scared to tell the whole story and in a way I think she protected me from knowing because she knew how frightened I was of the powerful men on the set. Her lose was the worst, but abuse can throw a wide net. I only began to understand this many years later. Thank you to your mother for what she did for you. I wish I had been that brave."

r42 it saddens me because even I don't know her, I believe her, and Joel still has an amazing career despite it. In fact, many men have successful lives despite being molesters and rapists.

R48, why do you say?

[quote] men and women don't experience sexual molestation in the quite the same way.

[quote] devastating these kinds of incidents can be, especially to a young girl.

Do you think it's less traumatizing for a young boy to be molested, R48? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I'm so sick of the perception that boys are better equipped to deal with perverts or that they somehow enjoyed the abuse or weren't terrified/traumatized. Sure some DL posters joke about it, but I think that's either due to gallows humor or coming from individuals who have never been assaulted.

I'm male, was molested at age 11 and this woman's words could have come from my own mouth. I believe her and hope she finds some comfort knowing by speaking out and knowing she's not alone.

[quote]Stop being hysterical. Most posters are just posting that they believe her.

R47 I direct you to your own posts as well as R38, who also happens to be angry, aggressive think like I do or I'll shove a pitchfork up your ass R33 R26. And that's what's missing from this and other discussions; a glut of seething, ranting mobs, a paucity proportion and level-headedness.

[quote]I think she protected me from knowing because she knew how frightened I was of the powerful men on the set

Bullshit! This trash of a mother was too scare of the molester to defend her child? Unfucking believable that this whore would think the public would fall for this.

Mormons are the worst. Poor Eliza never stood a chance.

I wonder if Arnold or Jamie Lee Curtis will speak out.

Or James Cameron.

I feel so bad for Eliza. That story was disgusting to read. I couldn't read it all. It was very detail-oriented.

[quote]I wonder if Arnold or Jamie Lee Curtis will speak out.

I think Arnold will stay quiet and Jamie Lee will speak out.

I don't think James will say anything.

So he called her "Jailbait" openly on the set??? Disgusting.

Now, they HAVE to say something.

Wasn't James abusive with Linda Hamilton? That is a can of worms he doesn't want to open, so I doubt he'll say anything here.

James Cameron seems like an asshole on and off set.

R62 he is.. trust me on this.

Tom Arnold was in True Lies and he might speak out. For years, he has talked about his child molestation incidents. I know his claims have been questioned because he went public about it when he was still married to Roseanne Barr. Barr said she was molested by her father and family members have disputed that. I'm not a huge fan of Tom Arnold, I believe his story and I think Barr wanted attention at the time and made up shit.

Arnold was also in an indie movie called Gardens of the Night where he plays a guy who kidnaps kids and uses them as prostitutes for molesters and rapists. I stumbled onto movie on Amazon Prime. Arnold's character disappears in the second half of the movie after the kids are left to fend for themselves on the streets. It's a good but tough movie to watch.

Jesus, r2.

A lot of non regulars show up for Polanski, Allen and Letterman threads, r35. And a lot of regulars avoid threads about Polanski and Allen (not sure about Letterman threads) so you can't say the opinions on them are the opinions of DLers.

We also have a huge amount of right wing trolls who come to any thread like this and claim men are being persecuted, or who turn it into an anti-Semitic free for all.

Not that there aren't some really broken DL regulars who are completely worthless, but I think you overestimate how many psychos here are representative of the site.

Her mother's response.

STFU, R2.

R48, since you're a straight female, how do you know how a male, straight or gay, adult or child, may feel about being sexually assaulted? Hmmm? I think that any victim, regardless of their sex would be devastated. Please don't visit a gay orientated board and invalidate the trauma that several male DL'ers have experienced.

I feel for Eliza. There was no one there to come to her aid when she needed it most. Poor girl. Sadly, this isn't an uncommon story be it in Hollywood or in neighborhoods anywhere.

[quote]He’s done it more than once, I’m sure. How many movies has this guy worked on that were filmed in impoverished, Asian countries? I bet PLENTY.

While I agree with other elements of this post, enough with the references to other countries (I am taken that “third world” was not part of it), as that is irrelevant in this case. Dusku’s incidents occurred in the good ol’ “first world” USA – there is plenty of vile shit of all kinds that regularly occurs there without the need to displace or project elsewhere on the globe.

[quote]I don’t know the details about her family, and though I do think that they failed her, I don’t blame them because there is always more to the story.

I am the poster who posted that Dushku’s family (and the other adults on the production) failed her, and I do not absolve her family of their responsibility to protect, and advocate for, her. Dushku gave them a rather generous out by indicating that they were not “ready” to address it, and her mother’s FB post reinforced just how poor their response was. Dushku should not have been in a position to “protect” her parents from the truth or the extent of what occurred. She was 12. It was her parents’ job to attempt to go there and to confront Kramer and others on production. This also reinforces that there are far too many people – from all backgrounds – who pull an ostrich or otherwise do not act in such situations – regardless of how difficult the situation (her mother indicated that she was fearful of Kramer) can be or whatever else may be at stake – which is its own type of fuckery.

[quote]So he called her "Jailbait" openly on the set??? Disgusting. Now, they HAVE to say something.

Per Dusku’s account, that was my reference to the cast and crew also failing her. Inexcusable.

The thing is, [bold]all[/bold] people (including myself) have been in multiple situations in which we have been witness to behaviors and incidents that are not okay, and for whatever reasons (some of which may seem valid at the time, or we convince ourselves of such), we look the other way, chose not to intervene, do not give a shit, or otherwise pull an ostrich. Complicit, all.

Dushku went for broke with her explicit accounts and naming names. I am rather curious of the outcome of this.

With Tom Arnold being on this set, could this have been one of the incidents that then mentally unstable Roseanne later referred to when she said Hollywood is just one big pedo-child-slavery Ponzi scheme?

What happens to people’s brains in Hollywood? Why do adult men act on their taboo cravings? Why do parents allow their children to go to an adult’s home unescorted and then to nothing when they learn they’ve been molested?

Serious questions. When I was growing up, if one of my sisters had been molested by a man at 12 years old, and then told my parents about it, that man would have been shotgunned as quickly as it took my father to seek him out.

R54 and r68, , I am r43, and I don’t think r48 is trying to turn this into a competition. She’s trying to communicate how a girl often experiences this situation differently, as in the implication that she was being a cocktease with her choice of clothing. That would probably not happen to a boy, certainly not one of an older generation like mine and maybe yours.

For a gay kid, there is an added sense of fear in that it seems an adult has already seen through you, recognized that you are gay, and has that information that could be used as a weapon. I lived in a very conservative environment, and I was targeted by a married-with-children churchgoing professional of high social status. Imagine the powerlessness of a somewhat nelly, insecure child/adolescent in the face of this - and then think about why he would never tell another adult about it: fear of being exposed as gay in addition to fear of being accused a filthy liar.

I am not sure about you, r54, but I felt all of that, though I don’t think that I could have articulated it at the time. It’s very tied to being gay and male, but I don’t think it makes what happened any easier or harder than what happened to anyone else.

It’s painful for me to think about now. Sometimes I become so far removed from my childhood that I lose the connection to that scared, confused, angry kid, and then a story like this brings him back like a vivid ghost, and I don’t know what to do with him.

R48 is trying to differentiate between how girls and women handle these things, i.e. how Dushku would be differently traumatized than a 20-something actress forced onto the casting couch.

Maybe worded anbit clumsily but I don't think she was ignoring the plight of men and boys being assaulted, but rather trying not to speak for others.

R64 I loved that movie it was tough to watch. Arnold was surprisingly good in and more people should have seen it.

Well, there was talk the pedophiles would be exposed next, and it looks like that is going to happen.

This is huge. And bravo to Eliza for doing this. Describing that trauma is very brave (Hi, Rose) and I hope this has a huge effect on how children are employed in the industry.

And there is absolutely no doubt to this story - the details are shocking. Plus, in the last quarter of the film, Eliza had a number of action scenes where there was a lot of stunt work.

I'll never be able to watch this film the same way again.

You had normal parents that cared about you and your sister, R71. Lots of people don't have that at all.

R14 is the Loon.

Tom Arnold's response on twitter

[quote]@elizadushku was a wonderful child and is an amazing woman. I ❤️ her. This makes me very angry & breaks my heart but I AM SO PROUD OF HER. #MeToo #TimesUp

Seriously, what parents would let their 12-year old girl spend the day, alone, with a 36-year old man?  How could anyone not think that was not odd.  Same with Anthony Rapp's parents.  How do you allow your 14-year old boy spend the evening, unchaperoned, at an adult party?  WTF is wrong with these parents?  It in no way diminishes the evil of the perpetrators, but sorry, I think there is more than fear of the stunt coordinator going on here.  FFS.. Make up any excuse like she has a doctor's appointment or insist that they come along because their daughter is TOO YOUNG to be unchaperoned.

She was kinda ugly as a kid. She got hotter when she was older like in Dollhouse

Roseanne was into that repressed memory bullshit. Her father died thinking the world looked at him as a molester of his own daughter(s). Roseanne later admitted she was dealing with a false memory or whatever the fuck convenient thing she came up with for no Accountability as usual. What a cunt.

Has Kramer responded?

I stand with you, Eliza, and all other sexual abuse victims.

God has blessed you for speaking out and helping others.

Her story reads like a Nifty tale. If it’s true, her parents need to be prosecuted right after Kramer. This is a bad case of child neglect.

I’m sure all of middle America will get more lecturing from the sicko Hollywood fucks soon.

[quote]I loved that movie it was tough to watch. Arnold was surprisingly good in and more people should have seen it.

I was also surprised by his performance in that movie. I remember going onto the now defunct IMDB boards after watching that movie and there were people praising Tom Arnold's performance. I thought Gillian Jacobs was quite good as the teen version of the little girl.

DL has turned into Frau central lately. I don't care what you bitches think about anything- I can hear that at work or from friends.

Are there no groups for women obsessed with gays? Can you take a ceramics class at a community college? Fuck your husbands so they don't cheat? Drop dead?

WHY did they NOT go to the cops?

[quote]I'll never be able to watch this film the same way again.

AMC is about to air it in about an hour. When I saw it listed on my directv guide it made me feel sad given what Dushku just revealed.

I just sent an edit to his IMDB page. We'll see if they accept it

R61 I read an unauthorized biography about Arnold and during the filming of the second Terminator movie, while sitting in the back of a limo Arnold grabbed Linda and put her on his lap and asked if her tits were real then proceed to reach under her shirt and play with her nipples. All this while James was sitting across from them and he said nothing.

He weakly denied the allegations.

[Quote] I read an unauthorized biography about Arnold and during the filming of the second Terminator movie, while sitting in the back of a limo Arnold grabbed Linda and put her on his lap and asked if her tits were real then proceed to reach under her shirt and play with her nipples. All this while James was sitting across from them and he said nothing.

Fuck James Cameron. He needs to be brought down for good too.

Kramer denied everything and then at the very end:

[quote]At one point Kramer scoffed at the details of the story, telling TheWrap: “That’s a pretty good memory. She could ruin my career.”

That's funny, r91 says he "weakly" denied the allegations while the first sentence of the link she provided says he "vigorously" denied them.

You can tell when someone is telling the truth about a sexual assault and just making up a story to destroy someone's career out of spite because they were jilted. I believe Eliza Dushku.

And why the hell would she be lying, anyway? To settle a 25-year-old grudge?

There's also no way she fell asleep in that hotel room and dreamt all this because of her account of the taxi ride later on.

R69, I read your post and I found it to be extremely reasonable, even though you used my comment about the stuntman probably visiting other countries, as an exam that we have enough to be concerned about in our own backyards. You are 100% correct.

However, I want to point out to you that just as you say, I too, have been in situations that didn’t seem “kosher” to me, and I do speak out when confronted with them.

Not everyone turns to look away, and not everyone buries their head in the sand.

A sunstroke at the swimming pool (Boston girl and Miami sun) could be another possible [italic]cynical[/italic] explanation for her account. But even that wouldn't explain the jailbait stuff or the changed atmosphere on the set.

I am ashamed to admit I always start doubting a little when the accused vehemently denies the allegations. But then I remember: what's he supposed to do anyway? Admit to everything on the spot and be arrested the same day?

I agree with R98. Most people do nothing, but not everyone.

R48? fuck off. I was abused as a six year old by a close adult family member. It's nearly destroyed me once I came of age. Abuse is fucking abuse.

A comment in “The Wrap” article:

Eliza Dushku is telling the truth. I was on the True Lies set for 3 weeks and reported Joel Kramer's inappropriate sexual behavior towards 12-year-old Eliza to a person in authority. I was met with blank stares and had the sense that I wasn't telling that person anything they didn't already know. I tried to keep Joel away from her as did others working on the set, but because of all the stunts she had to do, he was constantly involved with her and her body. Those who knew didn't know what to do and were far enough down the pecking order to be afraid of losing their jobs if they pressed the issue because all the power lay in the hands of those who called the shots and would stop at nothing to protect each other. That was years ago when that power structure was the norm, and the bullies were in charge. Only now does it appear that women and men know what to do and are doing it. May Eliza be believed and supported and may her courage in telling her truth make a contribution to the sea change that is in progress.

Sad

R102 Thanks for that.

His account of the day is so different to hers and he was telling is so confidently on the phone to TheWrap when he hadn't even read her story, that I immediately started doubting her. I guess deceiving and covering up comes naturally to him at this point. Or perhaps he knew this was coming one day and had years to practice and prepare.

She should go to the police about it, it sounds like the statute of limitations hasn't expired yet.

When the Mom claims that she was scared of all the powerful men, she means men who have power in making or breaking the girl's dream to be in the movies. That's the ONLY power they have.

So basically, she refused to go up against the man who molested her daughter because she feared it would affect her daughter's career.

That's what so many women have done in the history of the world.

What Kramer doesn’t get is that other people will step up to corroborate her accounts of his inappropriate behavior on the set, and his version about driving her home in a care with 4 or different people in said car could have happened anytime before or after the molestation incident.

I absolutely believe her. There is no good reason to say this publicly if it isn’t so. Personally, I would have gone to the police before making a public statement, but that’s me. I’m the kind of person that would have also called the police at 12 years of age if someone did that to me. I know, because I did call the police when I was 12 years old because a fucking sicko attempted to sexually assault me on my way home from school.

I believe her 100%. She needs to place a phone call to an attorney, and to the Miami PD. No question. I’m assuming that she’s completely willing to do so at this point, because if he takes legal action against her, she will have to.

I have no recollection of her role in that film.

I think it's unlikely he would be prosecuted. I know it's possible, but unlikely. It's hard to get good witness accounts when so much time has passed. It's to easy for the defense attorney to pick them apart. It's not like they are going to find the cab driver. I believe her though and I hope more people come forward.

Awesome reason for sacrificing your CHILD, r106.

Eliza has continued to work in the industry. I don't think this is a case of a stage mother sacrificing her child for money or her own notoriety. Likely she knew Eliza wanted this career and she didn't want to have Eliza's dreams destroyed. It sounds like Eliza didn't tell her parents everything. She may have been afraid they wouldn't let her act anymore if they knew.

Bullshit, r111. No sane parent would allow their 12-year old daughter to spend the day with a 36-year old man.

Wonder if other victims will come forward? Looking at Kramer's IMDb, that wasn't his only film with young girls.

R112 parents let their kids spend time with adults all the time. Teachers, uncles, god parents, scout masters, tutors, coaches, family friends, baby sitters, nannies and ministers. They think they can trust them. Predators are good at grooming the parents into seeing them as trustworthy. The entertainment industry use to be a presented as protecting child actors. There were supposed to be tutors and chaperones and social workers on set. It's only recently that it's come out that convicted child predators are sometimes working on sets with kids. I didn't know the social workers just drop in from time to time and of course the chaperones are being paid by the movie companies and may have other industry aspirations, so aren't exactly motivated to be whistle blowers. This guy was/ is well respected in the industry. People tend to assume perverts won't be well respected. This assumption is often incorrect, but people still make that mistake all the time.

r112 = never had children and instructs women with screaming children in Starbucks on how to properly discipline little Margo.

[quote] . I don't think this is a case of a stage mother sacrificing her child for money or her own notoriety. Likely she knew Eliza wanted this career and she didn't want to have Eliza's dreams destroyed. It sounds like Eliza didn't tell her parents everything.

Eliza's mother replied to a comment on Eliza's post.

Judith Dushku :I accept your condemnation as Eliza's mother. No, it was not her career that I feared for, as that meant nothing to me. I was afraid of Joel Kramer, too. And it was years later that I finally understood fully what really happened. At the time, Eliza was too scared to tell the whole story and in a way I think she protected me from knowing because she knew how frightened I was of the powerful men on the set. Her lose was the worst, but abuse can throw a wide net. I only began to understand this many years

Kudos to her for actually *naming* her molester.

R114 there isn't exactly a big market for male babysitters and nannies among parents. I've never even heard of a teenaged boy babysitting for anyone who isn't a relative.

[quote]Has Kramer responded?

He called Eliza a nigger.

Agreed, R117.

Respect, to Eliza.

*tips hat*

Now, she needs to go to the police.

Dear god R114 and r115, I hope like hell that you don't have kids and that you never breed.  A 36-year old co-worker is not the same as a scout master and let's not pretend that they're the same.  This is the equivalent of your 36-year old male boss wanting to spend time with your 12-year old daughter.  If you think that's normal then I predict CPS in your future.

Her mother deserves a swift kick to the cunt and her predator should have his dick removed.

r121 if only you ruled the world! We need an omniscient person in charge.

Yup, R122, I agree.  The first thing I'd do is get rid of the likes of you.  Then I would give ED's mother a swift kick in the cunt and then castrate her predator.

Next...

yawn.

You sure showed me, r123! When can we expect you to transition?

Holy Fuck R114 my parents never left me with anyone other than a blood relative. Even then it was stringent. They also talked about molestation and rape as soon as I can remember and how I was to tell them immediately if anything happened and not to believe threats about reporting it.

r126 you realize your experience is not everyone else's, right?

Transition, r125? I'm perfect just as I am. You, however, need a shit ton of work.

[quote] Barr said she was molested by her father and family members have disputed that.

Roseanne admitted she lied and Tom had repressed memories. He's also full of shit.

If all this is true, then Hollywood needs to be purged, or better yet, just have LA slide into the sea. It sounds as if sexual exploitation is just entrenched and abuse of women and children is taken for granted and silently condoned.

r128 it sounds like you need serious help, dear. Have you considered self-euthanasia?

She was only 12. I find it strange that the accused man not only denies the encounter (of course he would) but says that it wasn't a taxi, it was a car, he was driving and there were other people present. Maybe another man abused her in the car and she was abused twice in one night by two different men?

r132 or she doesn't remember it correctly because it happened when she was 12, if it did happen.

I suppose we'll find out if she is mistaken/lying about the car ride if the other people allegedly present come forward and vouch for it. If that happens, her whole story will be suspect.

R121 he wasn't her parents co worker he was her co worker. This is what makes child actors vulnerable it's normal for them to spend time with a lot of adults. It's why the industry always tried to assure the public and their parents that there were all these safety measures. It appears these safety measure don't really exist.

R118 Mannys were very trendy a few years ago. I've known teenage boys who babysat. Not as common as girls, but not as rare as you think. One of my female friends was raped by the father of the kids she babysat for. Jane Fonda was molested by her female nanny and the nanny's boyfriend. It's not like the female child care giver arraignment makes everyone safe.

R134 all that would prove is that she was in a car with him and other people at some point. It wouldn't prove she was never in a cab with him.

R131, is that all you got? Well, I consider it a compliment coming from someone who thinks it's okay to turn the care of their 12-year old daughter over to her 36-year old colleague.

R135, who cares if it was her boss or her parent's boss? Really. When a 36-year old man shows interest in spending time with a 12-year girl, it's a problem. Her mother failed her. Miserably.

[quote]Joel Kramer........ Why are most of these pedophiles/molesters Jewish? I don't get it.......

LOL. He might be Jewish, but from his Twitter account it is clear he's more similar to you than to the average American Jew.

I mean to say he's a big Trump supporter.

[quote]You should look into anger management classes

You should look into human decency classes.

[quote]a glut of seething, ranting mobs, a paucity proportion and level-headedness.

There’s nothing level-headed about a reaction to details of child molestation. We're not 'seething and ranting' because we're justifiably horrified at these details. Get a fucking clue.

r136 you're boring. I live in the real world, where you might care to venture, outside your black and white judgmental frau treehouse.

r138 you've already convicted this guy based on an incredibly long post by this actress, and posters upthread have called for much worse to happen to him. We live in a nation of laws, and if you don't like the laws, seek to change them. Mob mentality is not helping anyone, and I expect you would change your tune quickly if it ever were to happen to you. It's very possible to be unjustly accused, this is why we have laws and courts.

FFS r140, no one's convicted anyone of anything here on a THREAD. I have no legal powers, this isn't a legal forum. Don't be such a drama queen. We've only today read a horrific tale about a 12 year old being treated by a grown man as his private fucktoy, someone she worked with and entrusted her physical safety. We have a right to express horror at it, and to decide based on the story details, context, and veracity of the accuser if its worthy or not. We're not daisies here. Get off of DL if it's too much for you.

It's slim to none chance this guy will even be brought in for questioning re this incident, so its not like he's in any danger of losing his freedom. He may or may not continue to work. I personally found Dushku's tale straightforward and believable, and see no reason for her to make it up . You can disagree as is your right.

[quote]you're boring. I live in the pedo world

fixed it for you.

^ and the cycle is complete, the accusations of being a pedo against people who disagree with the "tar and feathering" approach of law.

I believe it. I doubt it would be so detailed if she were making it up, and especially the detail of the molester's identity. I mean, she'd have to really, really hate this guy for some reason to accuse him specifically, when she could be vague about the man in question like others have been.

r141 I love how me disagreeing with your opinion has you attacking me for being a delicate flower. Nice ad hominem attack. Can't justify the unbridled rage otherwise, eh?

"I was sexually molested 30 years ago."

Give me money. Or a film role. Or at least an Instagram post.

oh ffs r145 etc take a pill and lie down. It's obvs too draining for you., the rest of us who post regularly don't have a problem. I pointed out your gross exaggerations; you're the one who made a big stand about 'convicting without trial'. On a message board. Re an accused pedophile.

If you think this thread has 'unbridled rage' you're clearly not a regular.

r147 and now the accusations of "not a DL regular", also classic deflection technique. I still disagree very strongly with you, DARLINGCAKES, despite how many ad hominem attacks you make.

Eliza's Legal Guardian on True Lies supports the story:

Too bad she didn't do anything about it when she was her legal guardian, as in, entrusted with protecting her.

I believe her. But again, we’re this my story, and I found the courage to finally tell it, I would turn to law enforcement. Regardless of whether or not anything came of it, I would go to law enforcement.

I have a VERY fucked up incident happen to me when I was 20. Due to all of this stuff coming out, I have considered coming forward and telling someone other than my family, who have known about it from the time it happened, but we’re not emotionally or mentally equipped to deal with it. I also know that I would be believed, because of things that came out about this person who harmed me, about ten years after the incident that occurred with me.

Here’s what I decided: if I choose to come forward with my story, I will do so with law enforcement officials. I would not seek out press or accuse him on social media. I would pursue it via the police, because for me, that’s the only way to make things known. It’s the only opportunity I have for justice.

The man who harmed me ended up going to prison for most of his adult life, ten or so years, after he attacked me. He was convicted for numerous crimes, including murder. I have no doubt that I would not be believed, but honestly, I’m in a much better place, and in my mind, he got what was coming in prison. He fucked over PLENTY of people, hurt people, and changed lives for the worse. I have no doubt that he got his once he got in there.

If I were this girl, I’d go to the police.

Correction: I know that I would be believed. Also, sorry for all the typos. On my phone.

James Cameron:

[quote]“Eliza is very brave for speaking up,” Cameron told reporters at the Television Critics Association’s winter press tour on Saturday, where he was promoting his AMC series Visionaries. “Had I known about it, there would’ve been no mercy.”

I suspect the reason she went public us so it her women would be aware and go to the police to corroborate her story, and because the publicity would keep him away from other little girls while the investigation gets started. Because if she wants to put him in jail, and I hope that's her end game, she will need more evidence than her own word in court. She needs others who witnessed creepy behavior to come forward and corroberate her story, and if there are other victims she needs them to testify too. And she needs to prevent the notoriously fawning LAPD and DA to not hush it all up.

This is a terribly chilling statement, and totally believable.

[bold]James Cameron on "Brave" Eliza Dushku and the Sexual Harassment "Reckoning": "There's No Mercy Now"[/bold]

Cameron was asked about it at the TCA panel:

[quote]"I haven't given a lot of thought to this specific situation because I just heard about. Obviously, Eliza is very brave for speaking up. I think all the women are that are speaking up and calling for a reckoning now. I think this has been endemic throughout human systems, not just Hollywood," Cameron said. "Because Hollywood deals with women who are victims 10-15-20 years ago who are famous today, so they get to have a louder voice when they come forward. Bravo for them for doing it and I'm glad Eliza did that. It's just heartbreaking that it happened to her. I know the other party [Joel Kramer] — not well, he hasn't worked for me since then. The fact that this was happening under our noses and we didn't know about it — I think going forward, it's important for all industries, certainly in Hollywood to create a safe avenue for people to speak up. That they feel safe. And that anybody who might be a predator or abuser knows that that mechanism is there and that it's encouraged [that victims come forward] and there's no shame around it and that there will be consequences [for the perpetrators]. I think we all collectively as a human race — I don't think this is a Hollywood; Hollywood is in a unique positon to actually shine spotlight, as Hollywood has historically done on a lot of social issues. It's one of the things that we do and do well. This is a great moment in history that's unfortunately founded on personal tragedies that have occurred for so many of these women. This is not a reckoning for Hollywood or America; this is reckoning for the human race. This shit has been going on since day one. So whenever there's a male in a position power who has got a piece missing and doesn't understand the consequences of what he's doing, maybe out of this can come some education that can pull some men that would otherwise go down that path back from the brink. A lot of it has to come from a lack of empathy. That they're clearly not feeling what this is going to mean for this person further down the line. The psychological consequences have to be understood. Hopefully we'll be making films about this stuff and we'll put something in place as industry practice to do as much as we can to prevent it. Directors are historically pretty oblivious to the interpersonal things that are happening on their set because they're focused and are the worst offenders at being focused on "what I'm doing creatively." Had I known about it, there would have been no mercy. Now especially, I have daughters. There's really no mercy now."

[quote]Had I known about it, there would have been no mercy. Now especially, I have daughters. There's really no mercy now.

I hate it when they say that. We need to condition that shit out of them because it's a subtle form of misogyny. Women's worth is not determined by their relation to men, period.

Good white men like James Cameron need to come forward and represent!

There are many, many good white men out there who are APPALLED at what other white men are doing.

Everyone thanks you, James Cameron. You are on the right side of history.

Oh, right, James Cameron, let's pull a Matt Damon with that daughters crap. Who cares if you have daughters?

It is less difficult to pimp out women when you're a single guy?

R158, James Cameron's response is a total 180 from Matt Damon's lecture. Read his full response, it is one of the best I have seen from any wealthy Hollywood man of his stature.

Clearly, he is calling these men out, hard core.

It is hard to take bigots like r157 seriously.

[quote]I hate it when they say that. We need to condition that shit out of them because it's a subtle form of misogyny. Women's worth is not determined by their relation to men, period.

Like women don't do this exact same thing with 'I have sons so I know how it feels'. That's just how things go. You have a more emotional connection with something that's familiar to you.

And dear ladies at Datalounge, we are fully aware how homophobic some women are so please don't act like you own the place. I wonder how to 'condition' women to respect gay men, huh?

R160, listen, if this circle of derangement and cover-ups were entirely comprised of black men, or asian men, or native american men, THAT would be a huge consideration and topic.

Remember, the world has changed and not everyone comes from a white perspective.

Are Jews white, or not?

[quote]I wonder how to 'condition' women to respect gay men, huh?

You sad shit

Pedo much? R140

[quote] Too bad she didn't do anything about it when she was her legal guardian, as in, entrusted with protecting her.

She reported it. Why don't you read her statement before you judge her.

r159 except that he does everything EXCEPT address what happened on the film set. Cameron is a notorious control freak who works long hours, has long shoots. I don't buy his response because he would have a good memory of the players on his films, especially the stunt coordinator when True Lies was nothing but stunts.

R161 I'm a gay man and I've probably been here longer than you but thanks for being condescending. You're not at all illustrating my point perfectly with your infantile "ladies" talk. Just how old [italic]are[/italic] you?

[quote]You have a more emotional connection with something that's familiar to you.

It's called empathy and compassion. You don't need something to be familiar to feel an emotional connection to it. Especially when that "something" happens to be half the human population of the fucking planet.

R167, yeah, a huge grain of salt with Cameron's statement. He's infamous for being a control freak asshole on set. How do you reconcile Dushku's and the guardian's depiction of a set that knew Kramer was a pedo to Cameron's statement he didn't know what went on? If Cameron didn't know, it was likely due to willful ignorance.

R160' you're a bigot. Own it.

her nose job is terrible, from OP's pic.

R168, get off your high horse. I've worked my whole with women and have had females as bosses, without any problems so please enough with the MRA crap (not that you were the one saying it I guess).

But seriously, don't be an idiot and act like women are all perfect, because they are not. They can be just as cruel and terrible as men. I don't quite get where you see the problem in what I said about the emotional connection, because that's just the way it is. We human beings tend to care more about things that mean something to us. You make it sound like it's oh so terrible that James Cameron didn't have an emotional connection with small girls before getting his own. I mean what the hell? I'm glad that YOU are so perfect that you care about everybody equally (which btw you don't).

Gross straight sex is gross

Mary!

When a man says "...but now I have daughters" he's basically saying "Before I had daughters, I didn't give a shit what happened to women. But now I actually value at least one, so I feel differently".

Which is a dirtbaggy thing to say, and sadly honest.

It's meant to mean that yes, the personal experience has made them realize firsthand what it would feel like to have something happen to them or their loved ones. It's meant to underline how hard it would hit. And whatever you say about empathy people, you included, do not understand how certain things might feel without a personal connection. You're acting like a fool if you don't understand why people talk like that. And it's most certainly not only men doing it.

And I guess I should point out that if you feel empathy towards every little sad thing in the world your life is miserable. We all have to have shields to protect our own fragile self.

Not only molested-- dude broke her ribs.

R154, I doubt she can put him jail for the incident she describes, as the statute of limitations may well have expired. It was twenty-five years ago and didn't involve full-blown forcible rape-rape.

But if she's hoping that by going public she can get some other woman to come forward with an incident that's prosecutable... then I admire her gamesmanship!

I think James is full of shit. It's not like True Lies was the only movie Joel worked on.

[Quote] Kramer told Us that a woman who worked with Dushku, 37, as a teacher or a manager on the set told him that the pre-teen was infatuated with him. “She said, ‘Look, Eliza has a big crush on you, she is always asking me, ‘Oh, I bet Joel is dating all the women,’ ‘I bet Joel is screwing a lot of women,’ so I said then we have to be careful with this one,” he told Us. “At that age they are impressionable and my job as a stunt coordinator was to get Eliza to trust us, because she has to do stunts, she has to be in harnesses. Stunt doubles did all the big stunts, Eliza did close-ups on camera, we wanted her trust and we treated her like family. I just don’t know what is going through her mind.”

Ugh🤢🤢🤢

R179, link please? Thanks.

R180 Here

Wait a second.... so she played Dana Tasker, Shwartzenegger's daughter, in that film?

There is no fucking way she was 12 years old. More like a young-looking 20 year old playing a 14year-old (the Dana character's age). Someone's fibbing about their age here.

Check out this film PR interview she gave in 1994

[quote] ‘I bet Joel is screwing a lot of women,’

That's what all the 12-year-olds say... in the fantasy lives of pedophiles.

She looks like a child R182, you fucking moron. BLOCKED.

r167, not to defend Cameron, but stunts are usually a separate unit that can film on different days and locations from the main unit and has its own director. They will send dailies to Cameron for him to peruse, comment and edit, but he won't know about anything else happening with 2nd unit unless somebody tells him.

That’s not how CA law works R177.

The reason people have turned to social media and turned this into a movement R151, is because law enforcement historically HASN’T DONE ANYTHING. I don’t get how people don’t see this. The police are ineffective and fumbling and stupid. They don’t get it.

That’s why this change is happening right now.

James Cameron and Tom Arnold have commented.

Any word from her movie parents, Schwarzenegger and Jamie Lee Curtis?

I would imagine Jamie Lee will be quite angry. She was apeshit on Trump yesterday about Hawaii. Schwarzenegger won’t say shit. He’s as bad as Trump.

This happened in Miami. So question: If Eliza and the stuntman are hired by Cameron, and working under his corporation which is incorporated in CA, or perhaps elsewhere, does the criminal investigation fall into California, because it is a work related incident, or does it fall into the jurisdiction of Florida, specifically Miami PD?

Yo saved me the typing, R183, it is a script.

"Fantisizing about older men" is such a trope, I think Allen said something similar, anyone recall?

The "justice" system is often compromised.

Cops, DA s and judges are often in the news for sex offenses, pimping teens, kiddie porn, etc. And those are the ones who are caught. Don't forget all the local, state and fed legislators who are pervs.

Kushner said that, R179? Pedo bear alert folks!

That he broke her ribs to send a message is beyond horrifying. Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

Pervs typically attack the parent of young kids they victimize - crazy, liars, want $, want attention, etc, by 12 or so they switch to the script of victims fantasizing about older men. Allen used both scripts despite D being 7. The case where HC defended a rapist of a 12 year old followed the script perfectly. The fact that girl was also beaten so badly she was in a coma for days was simply ignored. These scripts, along with compromised law enforcement and other enablers, have served pervs very well. We are about to see if that has changed.

[quote]I doubt she can put him jail for the incident she describes, as the statute of limitations may well have expired. It was twenty-five years ago and didn't involve full-blown forcible rape-rape.

There are no statute of limitations in either California or Florida for child molestation.

r182 as has been said a number of times in this thread, Cameron's films are long shoots.

True Lies came out in 1994. It's possible it started filming in 1992 and for sure through 1993. Eliza was born on December 30th 1980. She would have turned 13 in 1993.

Nobody is fibbing.

Thanks, R196.

R166 reported to a mysterious authority figure, not to the police. Guess it didn't seem bad enough at the time.

She should go to the police. That is what will scare the crap out of molester.

A poster said it seemed like he didn't even know what she said. If you didn't do something, wouldn't you read and reread what you were accused of to look for something that could prove your innocence? He doesn't need to because he knows it's true and he's going to have to lie anyway. He sounds arrogant as fuck. He sounds like a psychopath. Especially with the way he's trying to put it on her now.

“Seriously, what parents would let their 12-year old girl spend the day, alone, with a 36-year old man? “

This, unfortunately, is precisely why I would not let men be alone with children/teenagers. I know most men aren’t abusers but a frighteningly large number of them are.

I honestly don't know what 36 year old man would want or even think about volunteering to spend a day with a 12 year old girl.

R196, watch her again in the film and tell me that's a 12 year old. She's supposed to be playing a character who's 14. Have you EVER seen an example in Hollywood of a preteen playing a teenager? It's always someone older. Typically because of labor laws which prevent minors from working late on set.

R203 Give it up.

R203 Sarah Mitchell Geller played Erika Canes 20ish daughter when she was a teenager. 14 year olds aren't permitted to work long hours either. What he did would also be illegal if she was 14. Insisting minors look fully mature is something pediphiles do. You are creepy.

Off-topic, I know: Did Eliza fuck Joss Whedon to get the lead in "Dollhouse"?

She's OK in Whedon's stuff, but honestly is not a great actress.

No, R206. She didn't have to. She had a huge following as Faith and so there was a built in audience that would have followed to watch Dollhouse.

Now if you wanted to ask about Ackerling... that's a whole other story.

[quote] You make it sound like it's oh so terrible that James Cameron didn't have an emotional connection with small girls before getting his own.

You’re not supposed to need any special emotional connection to somebody to believe whole-heartedly that they shouldn’t be raped (exceptions for Hitler, etc).

The problem is that it is just stupid to tell the victim that you care more than you would have in the past because they remind you of somebody now. Who wants to hear “I care about you, but you know what, I wouldn’t have cared as much if you didn’t look like a member of my family”? Tell it to a therapist, not the person who got raped.

Cameron's PR statement about this is ironic since he's famous for being a bully on set, especially towards women. I love these men who claim to support women when they are guilty of mysoginistic behavior as well. It's well-known that Cameron bullied Kate Winslet on the set of Titanic, insulting her for her weight, and then when she got pneumonia after filming on a tank of cold water for hours, he didn't allow her to have a break to fully recover. Turning a blind eye to Arnold S. assaulting Linda Hamilton on the set of Terminator was also disgusting.

The "now that I have a daughter" thing really does show that we're somehow failing to instill empathy in people and to emphasize that women and girls deserve respect.

It's similar to the parents who renounce their previous anti-gay attitudes after learning their child is not heterosexual. It is great that they have learned acceptance, but that empathy should extend beyond their immediate family.

R208 and R210, let it go. You're trying to force people feel empathy, or pretend that they do. I'm sure that on some level most people do empathize with small girls who are abused but everyone understands that if you get your own kids you start seeing things through them. You're being idiotic if you expect all men to start crying about people they know nothing about. Stomping your feet on the ground won't change things, but please keep doing it. It's entertaining to watch you lose it over this non-issue.

[quote] I believe her. But again, we’re this my story, and I found the courage to finally tell it, I would turn to law enforcement. Regardless of whether or not anything came of it, I would go to law enforcement

Really? Even though the statute of limitations for prosecution is over?

r211, I am happy to let it go, or to let you go, to be more precise.

I just hope you don't have any vulnerable people you are responsible for.

Does Eliza Dushku even have a career now?

R213, aww, people don't feel deeply about small girls they don't know, like you apparently do, and that makes them somehow defective? You do realize you come off as a total ass?

[quote]Really? Even though the statute of limitations for prosecution is over?

Except it hasn't as has been pointed out several times already.

R211/R213 Not feeling bad for sexually abused children makes you more an asshole than calling out an asshole.

Jamie Lee Curtis wrote this little article about it.

R217, don't twist my words. No one has claimed that. Some people in this thread are claiming that [italic]men[/italic] especially should not use the term "now that I have daughters of my own" since apparently it makes them heartless bastards for not caring [italic]super deeply[/italic] about ALL little girls in the world. I've been pointing out how idiotic it is to expect people to cry for people they don't know. And like I've said obviously most people do feel empathy on some level but that's not enough for some posters in this thread.

And FYI, I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years solely because I don't want animals to get hurt.

R211, we understand that not everyone has the same degree of empathy and it can't be forced, but people who assume responsibility for children had damn well better of a sense of responsibility if not empathy! That's what was missing from Cameron's statement, a sense that he'd assumed some responsibility for the welfare of a child, and had failed to live up to it, and in the future he'd be much more careful to protect any minors who worked on his projects. Empathy can't be learned or forced, but duty and responsibility can.

Like many Dataloungers I dislike the company of children and would happily pay extra to travel on child-free airplanes, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in their right to be protected from harm. Nobody should have to go through the shit that Dushku did, or that I did as a child. Every adult who has anything to do with children has the moral obligation to keep them from preventable harm, as they cannot prtect theselves.

R220, judging by the rumors Cameron is an asshole but in any case the studio had hired people to take care of the children. The production is responsible for the welfare of all the workers, not just the director.

R511, Cameron is obviously not an empathic person, but he assumed partial responsibility for the welfare of a child on "True Lies" and failed in the legal and moral obligation that brings. That's what was missing from his statement, a sense that he failed and needs to do better in the future, that would have been much more to the point than saying that having daughters has made him a better person.

You can't teach empathy to people who don't have the capacity for it, but you can teach responsibility and require duty.

Cameron molested her by proxy!

Jamie Lee Curtis wrote the far better response.

Dushku told her about it years ago, which makes me wonder how their conversation went.

I thought Jamie Lee’s response was a little strange and disjointed. I don’t think what happened to Eliza Dushku has much to do with enabling children to make better choices. I’m not even sure that’s what Curtis meant to say. Then she talks about the stunts and hanging from an elevator without really connecting it to Dushku or her own reactions. Weird.

What I got from JLC statement was a sense of guilt about creating an inappropriate atmosphere on sets which may have enabled children to be more seriously abused. It’s actually nice to hear someone take on some responsibility even if it’s completely unnecessary on her part.

^ And the strange grey area that child actors occupy in terms of their status and their relationships with the people around them.

The "choices" part threw me as well, though. I think she is getting at how these kids are expected to make decisions as if they are working adults, and they are sometimes treated accordingly, including giving them lax supervision or entrusting them to too many or simply the wrong adults as if said adults were peers, which they are not.

JAMIE LEE KNEW

I wonder what Jamie Lee really thinks about Lohan. She got her at her best/peak and then... Has she ever commented?

[quote]It was twenty-five years ago and didn't involve full-blown forcible rape-rape.

No it only involved child molestation-rape. A whole lot worse.

Already mentioned but the crime took place in Miami, not CA so which state laws would apply? What is the statute of limitation for child molestation in FL?

Molestation- rape and battery...he broke her ribs, and did so during the discourse of professional actions in which he was the leader, designer and responsible party that everyone was putting their trust in. I find this part especially horrifying!

R210, just exactly who I are “we”, who are failing to instill empathy in others?

I get what you’re saying, however, it’s not my job to instill empathy in other people. And I don’t have children, therefore I’m not failing to instill empathy in my children.

Society, or more precisely, advertising, marketing, film, music, etc., has built formidable institutions based on misogyny, violence, homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, etc. All of the boxes can be ticked. For whatever reason, it’s what the majority of people respond to, and clamor for more of. Just a quick observation as to where we are currently, in our politics, is proof.

Most people are born empathetic. What is lacking in our society is a formidable education system, equally accessible to all.

Education is the most impactful way to even out the playing field in almost all disparities. Yet, the people who appear to have less access to a decent, well rounded education, continue to vote against ever getting one for themselves, and their children, as well as voting against a myriad of other policies that could empower them.

It’s a vicious cycle, and I personally do not see us coming out of that cycle, any time soon. People HATE and RESIST change, even when that change will better their lives in a number of ways.

Jamie Lee Curtis responds:

The criminal justice system typically has a single digit conviction rate for sex offenses, many are never prosecuted or are bargained down to misdemeanors.

r232, I am r210, and I am a teacher, believe it or not.

I am also r43 and r72.

This issue comes to me very personally on two levels: one, something very similar happened to me when I was a little older than ED was; two, I work with kids and it almost haunts me to imagine that any of them might be going through life with a weight like this around their necks.

The collective "we" I was referring to is society in general, and I agree with you that education is key. We need to be learning about the perspectives and experiences of people outside of our own usual circles in order to find a common humanity and to understand and respect differences among us.

We wouldn't have Donald Trump as President if we could succeed in this.

I objected to the "now that I have daughters I see this" because it shouldn't need to come so close to home for you to understand the damage that child molestation wreaks on people for their entire fucking lives. I get that we are not bottomless wells of compassion and empathy, but real empathy means that you can feel it beyond yourself, beyond your immediate family.

I get it. Men understand girls on a different level when they are raising them. It's not bad. But they should have that power of empathy anyway. I gave the analogous example of formerly anti-gay people who changed their outlook when they discovered a family member to be gay, queer, trans, whatever. It's great that they can find this acceptance in their hearts. But why does it have to come down to sons and daughters to make this a reality?

James Cameron feels worse about this because he can envision it happening to his own daughters. That isn't bad.

But it probably means very little to Eliza Dushku.

The pedo was dropped by his agency. It's over for him.

[Quote] Rae Sanchini’s statement: Two more people close to Eliza Dushku, her agent at the time JoAnne Colonna and longtime friend Peter Conti, have come forward to support the actress’ account of sexual assault at the hands of top stunt coordinator Joel Kramer during the filming of the 1994 hit True Lies when she was 12. Kramer, who was 36 at the time, has denied the allegations. Colonna, now a manager, had represented Dushku for three years at the time the young actress got True Lies as part of a 15-year stint as her representative. Colonna was the “tough adult female friend in whom I had confided my terrible secret” that Dushku referred to in her Facebook post. Colonna said she had contacted True Lies executive producer Rae Sanchini to raise concerns of misconduct even before the incident occurred, while the movie was filming in Miami. “I’d called Rae multiple times because there was such inappropriateness going on the set,” Colonna told Deadline. “There was sexual talk to and at her at various occasions. She was a very feisty, precocious 12-year-old, a tomboy, they may have felt she was one of the boys but it was really inappropriate from the top.” The account is consistent with the picture Sue Booth-Forbes, Dushku’s legal guardian on the set of the movie, painted to Deadline yesterday, speaking of “misogyny, sexual language and attitudes of the crowd of immature white men who made up the vast majority of the crew. She was treated like one of the boys, not a 12-year-old girl.” Colonna said she chose Sanchini as the person to contact because she was True Lies‘ director/producer James Cameron’s producer at the tine and she was a woman. Sanchini’s response, according to Colonna? “I will look into it.” Then when production on the movie, in which Dushlku played Arnold Schwarzenegger’s daughter, came to Los Angeles, she shared her “secret” with Colonna. “She told me. I couldn’t believe it. I said ‘I’m coming to the set tomorrow’,” Colonna said. Dushku pleaded with her not to tell anyone for fear of retribution but Colonna went to the set anyway. She said she spoke with Sanchini and she also pulled Kramer aside and told him,” You are going to stay the f*uck away from her.” As for what happened after — “Nobody really did anything,” Colonna said. She recalled Sanchini’s reaction being, “what was a 12-year-old girl doing hanging out with a crew late at night.” Booth-Forbes also believes it was Sanchini whom she told about the assault, referring to her in her statement yesterday, “I did the only thing I knew to do then — report his behavior to someone with some clout, and that went nowhere. “

[Quote] In a statement to Deadline, Sanchini denied any prior knowledge of the assault. “I was shocked and saddened to read Eliza’s story about the sexual assault she suffered during the filming of True Lies. She has my full support and sympathy,” Sanchini said, “I want to state for the record that, until yesterday, I was unaware of any instances or claims of sexual harassment or assault against Eliza. Had I known, I would have taken immediate and forceful action. My thoughts are with Eliza and I hope that by coming forward it will help her heal, as well as empower others to do the same.” Speaking at TCA yesterday, Cameron also said that he had just learned about Dushku’s claims, which he had not been aware of. “Had I known about it, there would have been no mercy,” Cameron said. Colonna also reached out to True Lies casting director, the late Mali Finn, who had discovered Dushku three year prior at an open casting call and was close to Dushku’s mom. Colonna recalls asking her, “What do I do, who do I call?.” She told me, ‘just be careful.'” That warning illustrates the stigma speaking out about sexual harassment and sexual assault in Hollywood had carried for decades. “I’ve read all the stories about Mira Sorvino, Ashley Judd. There is a reason why nobody come forward; everyone was so afraid that they would get blacklisted and fired.” Colonna jumped to the defense of Dushku’s mom and her legal guardian, who had faced online accusations for not preventing the assault, noting that they could not be”right there every second, constantly on set” because of the way movie production works. Colonna said she is glad that Dushku has found the courage to come forward with her story. “To carry this for so long, I’m sure it’s devastating how it affect the rest of your life.” Conti, a college professor and writer, is a close friend of Dushku’s and Colonna’s, who has known Dushku since she was 11. He told Deadline that she confided in him about the alleged incident, in which Kramer, under the pretext of a crew pool party, lured Dusku to his hotel room. Conti, who first heard the story from Dushku shortly after the attack had happened while she still was filming True Lies, said that he hadn’t read Dushku’s Facebook post in which she details the assault but his account of it as told to him by the actress 25 years ago was consistent with the story she shared. “She was really, really upset, she said it was a bad situation,” Conti said. He said that he wanted to go and confront Kramer but Dushku told him to let it go. “She said she was afraid because he was in charge of her stunts,” Conti said. (In her post, Dushku talks about being fearful for her life after a serious stunt accident she suffered under Kramer’s supervision shortly after the alleged assault sent her to the hospital with broken ribs.) “She said it’s her word against his and no one would believe her,” Conti said. He admits, “I regret not handling it differently. What clouded my judgement is that JoAnne repeatedly went to the producer and nothing happened. How the hell were they going to listen to me.” Conti still tried to confront Kramer at the True Lies premiere in Westwood. “I thought he was going to beat him up, we had to hold him back,” Colonna recalls of the incident, noting that shje got help from security to avoid physical confrontation. Conti that said 9-10 years had passed by before Dushku brought up the incident again in a conversation. They last discussed it a couple of years ago. “This time, I got the magnitude of it, how much it had affected her as child, and more so when she got older, as a teenager. We talked about her coming out (with the story) but she said, ‘what can I do, there is no proof”.”

[quote]The criminal justice system typically has a single digit conviction rate for sex offenses, many are never prosecuted or are bargained down to misdemeanors.

Traditional courts of law are no longer required. Now the Court of Twitter and Public Opinion is in session 24 hours a day to administer rough "justice" via accusation, condemnation and execution. Much like Iran or Mao's China or Stalin's Russia.

Joel Kramer says he never was at the premiere :

As reported in Deadline Hollywood, saying I was confronted at the Westwood premiere of True Lies. "This is yet another "Fact" Which wasn't true as I Joel Kramer was never at the Westwood premiere of True Lies" Are these all fabrications or is this a case of mistaken identity?

Read the last few paragraphs from the article: Conti, a college professor and writer, is a close friend of Dushku’s and Colonna’s, who has known Dushku since she was 11... He said that he wanted to go and confront Kramer but Dushku told him to let it go. “She said she was afraid because he was in charge of her stunts,” Conti said. (In her post, Dushku talks about being fearful for her life after a serious stunt accident she suffered under Kramer’s supervision shortly after the alleged assault sent her to the hospital with broken ribs.)

“She said it’s her word against his and no one would believe her,” Conti said. He admits, “I regret not handling it differently. What clouded my judgement is that JoAnne repeatedly went to the producer and nothing happened. How the hell were they going to listen to me.”

Conti still tried to confront Kramer at the True Lies premiere in Westwood.

“I thought he was going to beat him up, we had to hold him back,” Colonna recalls of the incident, noting that shje got help from security to avoid physical confrontation.

The traditional courts have failed to deliver justice, and so have corporate policies forbidding sexual harassment. And when people can't get justice, sometimes they turn to dubious methods like vigilanteism and twitter.

If you don't like seeing men put in front of the Court of Public Opinion, write your government representatives and ask for changes in the laws regarding sexual offenses that will make it easier for victims of sexual crimes to get the justice they deserve.

I know several women who have had to endure sexual abuse, including one woman who was raped by her father, another who was told she couldn’t have any children due to scarring from early childhood abuse.

Not a single one of the abuser was formally charged let alone sentenced. If you feel no outrage about the fact that most sexual abusers never face consequences for their monstrous and violent behavior, then please stop the pearl clutching about the poor men being “lynched” (as in murdered like the black men to show white supremacy) or “witch hunted” (hundreds of thousands of women were tortured, executed, burnt alive). Men need to stop hysterically overreacting to any imagined injustice allegedly affecting them while ignoring actual injustices destroying the lives of women.

Ah, R242, but how else will psychopathic men retain both power and ultimate victim status?

r179, if there's one statement that screams, "Victim-blaming a child", this is it. Kramer may well be innocent but that statement reads like a stereotypical pedo's excuse.

How does a 12 year old girl end up in a grown man's hotel room in the first place. She had a Mother and a set guardian. It was their responsibility to protect her. Just because child actors work with adults, they are still just children. She was failed by everyone.

Jamie Lee Curtis: True Lies child sex assault claim 'has awakened us to a new, horrific reality'

more accusations

Two More Sexual Misconduct Allegations Against Stunt Coordinator Joel Kramer Include One Involving 10th Grade Girl:

Kramer seems to definitely have a pattern with the pool thing.

And this statement from him makes him sound like a gross fucking guilty pig.

[quote]“I did not invite the two girls up to my room,” he said. “One girl on her own came to my room as she was legal age.” In a written statement, he said that “The stunt crew all stay at that hotel. I was swimming laps one early evening and the sister of one of my stunt doubles and her friend showed up at the pool. I did not invite them. They swam around and I finished my laps and went up to my room alone. Period. You don’t know me, but I am not a liar. Thirty minutes later there was a knock at my door and her friend was there and asked to come in. She came in and we fooled around but no intercourse. She left about 1/2 hour later. I honestly did not know she was 17. Tattoos, and yes, pretty. When I found out I was devastated. I also checked with the local laws and found out 16 was the consensual age. It bothered me for years. Yes all was consensual.”

There will more victims.

Guess his schtick is "swimming at the hotel pool." Hope someone breaks HIS ribs, it is very painful. Sick fuck.

Her mom is full of crap

[quote]She was failed by everyone.

True but she was raped by the pedo. He is the main culprit.

R249 He's so full of shit.

[Quote] Kramer called the allegation a “fabrication,” saying he never forced himself on anyone. “It saddens me that now people will use me as their target of opportunity. Please do not take these at face value. I am sorry for this witch hunt.” He added: “I have been upfront and truthful on all facets. I am not this damned A-hole the media and others portrays me as. I am so depressed and shocked over all of this. There’s nothing I can say or do that many just want to chastise myself and kick me to the curb. We all make mistakes, but do I have to pay dearly for those that are not of my doing?”

“Witch hunt”, lol.

Men love playing the victim role, don’t they?

Psychopathic men especially.

He is spitting out all the MRA and pedo go to phrases in random word salad, lol. Hope the dude saved his $$$.

So powerful R255. Do you knit?

What exactly is a "10th grade girl"? When I see headlines like that with odd descriptors I automatically assume it's been tweaked to make it sound more salacious than it actually is.

Her nightmare is every 12 year-old gay boy’s dream come true.

This poor girl, and many others like her.

I just want to find this guy and beat the shit out of him.

No not really 259 and we shouldn't be promoting that idea. There are just as many young boys who, while sexually curious, would feel better about experimentation if it were with someone their own age.

Just because we are hornier doesn't mean we don't get fucked up if introduced to sex before we are emotionally capable of handling it.

So cut that shit out.

[quote]For a gay kid, there is an added sense of fear in that it seems an adult has already seen through you, recognized that you are gay, and has that information that could be used as a weapon. r72

Let's not forget that straight little boys get molested too and theirs is a different hell.

Bottom line, no kid wants sex with an adult, can those of us who are not hebe or peados all agree on that?

Eliza who?

r156 I have heard guys I work with do the same thing. They talk so highly about their daughters but the women we work with get no regard or respect. It really puzzles me because they have no idea that their shitty attitudes are creating a legacy that their daughters will meet if they ever go into the work world. I guess they are all thinking their girls will marry some guy and they will never have to work? I don't know, these straight guys are fucked in the head.

She just wants attention because nobody knows who she is.

R265 Sure Jan.

Consider this r225 they were doing a film where their lives were in the hands of the molester. Was that a good time to accuse him of molestation? What if he was not removed from the film but instead was allowed to keep working until the matter was sorted out?

I'm guessing that was the concern of JLC. Also Eliza told her in confidence, if Eliza didn't want to do more than confide in Jamie, then what should Jamie do? Intelligently, Jamie should have done what she knew was right, tell on the bastard and let the chips fall where they may. That's why she wrote about adults treating children like they are peers instead of children. Jamie allowed Eliza to make her own decision about keeping silent, but Eliza ws a child and afraid. An adult needed to step in and say, "No. We are going to confront this. I'll help you." Jamie made the mistake a lot of adult do, treating Eliza like an adult capable of making a mature decision about something that horrific. She did fail Eliza, and I think that's her way of admitting it.

She has only herself to blame.

[quote]I have heard guys I work with do the same thing. They talk so highly about their daughters but the women we work with get no regard or respect.

The common belief and practice seems to be that it is always okay to treat girls and women disrespectfully as long as they are [bold]someone else's[/bold] daughters.

[quote]Jamie allowed Eliza to make her own decision about keeping silent, but Eliza ws a child and afraid.

Unless I misunderstood your post, it seems that you believe Dushku told JLC when the former was a child, which is not the case. My understanding is that Dushku told JLC only a few years ago - many years after the abuse occurred and when Dushku was well into adulthood.

R268 = pedofile

r259, I don't think you can fathom how wrong you are.

Oh, that's rich, R255. NOBODY owns Victimhood like a woman. You bitches own every franchise on it. But thanks for the laugh.

r272, I can hear a flaming lisp a mile away.

Can we agree that the 12-year-old girl being molested in a hotel room is a victim?

That would be a starting point.

"A flaming lisp"? Oh NOOOOOO!!!

Seriously, will you straight cows get off of this site once and for all. I understand you hate men but we're not gong to laugh off gay bashing here. Major cunts and SO MANY these days. Just like in real life.

Oh give me a break @r275, you act like a chick with a dick

[quote]R47 Stop being hysterical. Most posters are just posting that they believe her. You seem very old school: unless an accusation against a man is not being immediately dismissed as lies, there’s a “seething mob mentality”.

This made me laugh [bold] : ) [/bold] So true

[quote]R121 Her mother deserves a swift kick to the cunt and her predator should have his dick removed.

Why don't you blame the FATHER as well as the daughter?

[quote]r224 Dushku told her about it years ago,

#TansJamieKnew

[quote]Kramer told Us that a woman who worked with Dushku, 37, as a teacher or a manager on the set told him that the pre-teen was infatuated with him. “She said, ‘Look, Eliza has a big crush on you, she is always asking me, ‘Oh, I bet Joel is dating all the women,’ ‘I bet Joel is screwing a lot of women,’ so I said then we have to be careful with this one,” he told Us.

Definitely sounds like something a pedo would say. Straight from his fantasies.