I never liked Elaine Stritch

Yeah. Her AND Dorothy Loudon.

Everyone likes to make fun of Madonna and Cher, but look at that thing in OP's photo!!

How come no one makes fun of her??

I never understood what the thing was about showing off her legs during old age. Yes, they looked twenty-five years younger than the legs of other women her age, but that didn't mean they were sexy--just that they looked like a 50-year old's legs when she was 75 (as the photo at the OP demonstrates).

I think she thought straight men would look at them and think, "My God! She may be 75, but those are the legs of a hot 25-year old babe! She is so hot from the waist down... I want to fuck her!" Sorry, Elaine. No one thought that.

I lost all respect for her when she stopped wearing underwear and showing her cooch when exiting limos...this was about the same time as young starlets were doing it and it just seemed sad and pathetic.

She looks like a skank. Was she famous for being a hooker in the 30s?

She has made a lotta stupid comments about gays too.

Cant stand her.

meh.

Is she like the olde timey Madonna?

Barbara Cook called her a "professional diabetic."

Elaine couldn't stand not being the focus of EVERYONE'S attention at ALL times!

I love that Barbara Cook quote. I think she and Elaine were not friends...at all. So much so that Elaine got a rather pointed shout out last Monday at Barbara Cook's memorial service at Lincoln Center. It was really marvelous with speakers, singers and lots of video clips from those not in attendance and archival footage.

Harold Prince filmed a segment and spoke of Barbara's magnificent performance of "In Buddy's Eyes" at the 1985 concert presentation of that show we talk about here all the time. Prince said EVERYONE was spellbound at the rehearsal when they heard Barbara sing it...except Elaine! Cut to the video, onscreen was seen the entire cast (Lee Remick, Comden and Green, Mandy Patinkin) all silent, intently enjoying Barbara's thrilling rendition...EXCEPT ELAINE, who was seen noisily shuffling through a shopping bag THE WHOLE TIME, taking her shoes on and off repeatedly and shoving them in the bag again, and just fidgeting around being completely disruptive!

Hal Prince might as well have said, "I always HATED Elaine Stritch!", but by showing the clip proved to all that Elaine was a huge cunt! It got a big laugh.

R3, there you go thinking women dress the way they do to attract men. I've never thought anything unusual about the way Elaine Stritch dressed. She was a Broadway performer after all. Black tights are pretty standard attire for female entertainers, particularly dancers and showgirls.

Poor man's Bea Arthur.

Old ladies in tights

I couldn't stand Stritch or Dorothy Loudon, either. And for the trifecta, I've never cared much for Liza.

I remember walking behind her, having no clue who it was. Just an old broad in a terry cloth top and shorty, short, shorts . Initially I was like - you've got to be kidding me. Then I started thinking, what the hell. She doesn't look that bad and if she's got the guts -- then good for her. A bit later she turned to go into a building and I realized it was her and just kind of chuckled to myself.

She had a unique talent. That cannot be denied. I've never been able to shake the thought that she had this incredible life with all these amazing people in it but I wonder how much of it was through blackouts where she never remembered what she'd done or the experiences she had. It was packed full enough that I'm sure she was happy to remember some great times/people. I hope so.

She was a pisser. That's for sure.

What is a "professional diabetic"?

She had a very narrow shtick. Alright, in small doses, I suppose; but I've never had a desire to listen to her squawk through a song or say more than a blunt one-liner.

When you try to imagine her playing Dorothy Zbornak for eight years her limitations become more sharply focused.

But of course some gays think that any woman over forty who has even slightly more edge than your average Mormon housewife is a "hoot".

She was a hoot of a drunk - but boy I sure hated her singing. She absolutely ruined the original cast recording of Company, In the opening number she holds a long drawn-out note - and she is so blatantly loud and FLAT. It's painful!

Whenever I see a thread where everyone's agreeing with each other, I always think it's the same two or three (or even one) people talking to each other. Sad.

I'm not a fan of Broadway, ergo I'm not a fan of Elaine Stritch.

This is the iconic song that is associated with her.

Stritch has very badly fitted dentures that need to be sorted out.

Then block them, R19. This thread isn't one person talking to themselves. Unless they have twenty different devices.

What's with the people commenting on her using present tense? She's been dead for years.

Narcissistic dry drunk even when sober Me!

why did people think she could sing?

" And for the trifecta, I've never cared much for Liza."

I never cared for Liza, and I thought her mother was simply a talentless, fucked-in-the-head alcoholic completely undeserving of the sainthood gay men bestowed on her.

And I threw away my gay card years ago.

I saw her on Broadway in "A Little Night Music" and she absolutely commanded the stage. Ooozed charisma. No one could touch her.

By the same token, R23, if you hate her so much, just ignore her. She's dead. It's not like she'll be putting out new product. Why bother ranting about her online?

In her memoir, Cook found about thirty-five ways to call Stritch a cunt while seeming to remain magnanimous and above it all. Hats off!

She farted a lot

[quote]Do I have to turn in my gay card?

Why, yes. Yes, you do.

She was great as Alec Baldwin's mother on 30 Rock.

Same here. I couldn't finish her documentary after about a half hour, she was irritable and humorless.

I like this bit from The Big Gay Sketch Show where Elaine Stritch goes to work at WalMart:

I think Stritch had that Lillian Hellman syndrome- I outlived everybody, so now I'll star myself in every major event of the Twentieth Century.

I did like her as Alec Baldwin's mother in 30 Rock, though - especially the episode where he accidentally ran over her with his car, then sat there for 90 seconds before deciding to call 911.

Her one-woman show, At Liberty, was excellent. Check out old Theater Talk episodes on YouTube, in which she's crusty and funny and you can see why she was beloved, by some.

I thought she was fascinating as a study for how life shapes you, transforms you. She grew up a sheltered Catholic Irish girl in Michigan, went to New York to become an actress and started on a life most people can't even begin to fathom. She was the still-scared virgin when she went on her first real date ---- with Marlon Brando. She became a theatre star, spent all her time with creative genius, married a man she loved unconditionally, lost him still young, and then went on to survive, every day older, more unemployable than the last. Those tights aren't about being sexy, they were about competing and winning. They were about being brash, confident, loud, obnoxious, memorable even when inside she was and always would be that still-scared virgin, unworthy of Marlon Brando, or anyone else. It's why she drank. And only when her survival was threatened by the booze, could she stop. She may not have had a lyrical voice, or a charming personality, but she had monumental strength, and that is what she was hired or on 30 Rock, that's what those documentaries focused on. She was a model of a survival instinct that is truly remarkable. Judy Garland, Aliza, Dorothy, any of the dames, should have been so lucky.

I am not buying what r39 what is so pushily selling. Btw, which episode did Elaine play Alex's wife on "30 Rock"?

HBO originally recorded At Liberty for airing but realized it was unwatchable and had zero mass appeal, even for an esoteric cable channel like HBO. They tried to salvage it by piecing together a documentary and also putting At Liberty for sale on DVD for the masochistic saps who wanted to hear her bizarre trademark line "as the hooker said, it's not the work, it's the stairs (stares)."

And one for me, R21.

Hey R40, demonstrating that debating brilliance that has clearly served you well.

R39.

Stritch was an asshole... in her prime, she was also a uniquely entertaining musical theatre artist. One has little to do with the other.

She was a horrible horrible person, but she was magic onstage, with amazing comic timing. (And a good solid belt when she was younger.) In her "blatantly honest" one woman show, she managed to leave out the little fact that she was a lesbian. Someone told me a story in the 70s that a friend of his was sitting in his Psychiatrist's outer office many years before, when suddenly a piercing voice could be heard from within, yelling, "I CAN'T BE A DYKE, I'M CARDINAL STRITCH'S NIECE!!"

When she was introduced to Camilla Cornwall, Elaine was determined to show she wasn't impressed by royalty. She shook Camilla's hand and said, "Hi, nice tits." Camilla didn't flinch. She smiled and said, "Why, thank you."

"Well, it's like the prostitute once said. It's not the work; it's the stairs," R41.

She sang show tunes!

Usually any actor's "brutally honest" retrospective is anything but.

I love you, R39.

[quote] She grew up a sheltered Catholic Irish girl in Michigan, went to New York to become an actress and started on a life most people can't even begin to fathom.

Mary!

Her life must have been absolutely mind-blowing if mere mortals can't even "begin to fathom" it!

It must be like contemplating the nature of Cthulhu.

Predictably, this thread has become multiple men saying, "I can't stand her," and multiple Broadway queens rebuking them by saying, "But she was a HOOT!"

I can't stand her...

But she was a HOOT!

R40 She played Alec Baldwin's mother, not wife. She was on quite a few episodes.

She was very talented, and a great raconteur. Why someone here seems to feel the need to denigrate an old lady who died 4 years ago is beyond me.

Here she is at her absolute best. Very, very funny and engaging.

[quote] Why someone here seems to feel the need to denigrate an old lady who died 4 years ago is beyond me.

Yes, the dead are absolutely off limits on Datalounge. They cannot ever be denigrated. It would be a sin against decorum!

R56 You can say whatever you want about anybody. But to seemingly campaign for people not to like a deceased entertainer suggests to me that you have no place to go on Christmas.

God bless you.

We talked shit about her when she was alive, so why should we stop now that she's dead?

" She shook Camilla's hand and said, "Hi, nice tits." Camilla didn't flinch. She smiled and said, "Why, thank you." "

Camilla is used to such comments from other senior members of the royal family, including the queen.

It seemed DL theater people didn't have much good to say about her and non-fans had less good to say about her during her one-woman show. There was even a thread questioning what "....it's the stairs" meant. Those who worked with her hated her and those who didn't hated her as well so at least she was consistent in her lack of appeal.

She should have played Miss Hannigan.

She was undeniably talented, but she was also someone where a little went a long way.

A LOOOOOOOOOONG way.

R57 Testify!

In the Company documentary, when Stritch is messing up "Ladies Who Lunch", Sondheim has this expression, like, "Jeez, I have to listen to this again." The audiences knew the feeling.

I get she was a talented actress, but was she ever able to sing? the clip above she's "talk singing" through it. I'm legit asking.

as context, i never understood singer/songwriters who became superstars with bad voices/very poor singing ability (e.g. bob dylan, carole king, i'd even put springsteen in this category) though I get that for them, the songwriting and musical ability compensated I guess.

R64 in her day, she could sell the shit out of a song.

Here she is in Call Me Madam. Different from Merman, but fantastic.

I always got a kick out of her, but I don't think she would have been easy to be around in real life or to work with, after a certain point in her career. I do think "At Liberty" was one of the highlights of my theatre-going experiences, and, the older I get, the more I feel a kinship with her blend of wit and pain.

As The Guardian remarked when she brought her solo show to The Old Vic, “Just another old lady in her tights who looks like she forgot to put a skirt on when she left the house.”

[quote] with bad voices/very poor singing ability (e.g. bob dylan, carole king, i'd even put springsteen in this category)

If you think Carole King has a bad voice, I question your credibility.

For someone who was “terrible” she had 3 Emmys, 1 Tony, 3 Drama Desk Awards and was famously only a couple votes shy of an Oscar nomination for Woody Allen’s “September”

[quote] If you think Carole King has a bad voice, I question your credibility.

i question your ears. Carole King is a brilliant songwriter and musician, and has emotion in her voice, but I think even she admits her voice is not exactly pleasant in terms of her tone and resonance, and in more recent perofrmances (the live shows with james taylor) she is often flat or off key.

in fact on you've got a friend she sounds quite whiny.

R70 I agree that she may sound flat and/or off key now, and her voice isn't a multi-octave wonder, but it's a nice voice to listen to on her older records.

R71 it’s acceptable but if she had written her own songs she would never have been a “singer”.

And personally I think she sounds a bit whiny even on some of her old recordings like YGAF. It works better on Natural Woman.

^^^^if she HADN’T written

R69, how do you know she was a couple of votes shy of an Oscar nomination?

R74, the same way she claimed she turned down the Bea Arthur role in "Golden Girls."

[quote] But to seemingly campaign for people not to like a deceased entertainer suggests to me that you have no place to go on Christmas. God bless you.

And yet, here I am staying with my loving family, having turned down invitations to spend it also with loving friends elsewhere. Go figure!

p.s.--love the passive aggressive little "God bless you"!

We're just a weeeeeeeeeeeee bit preachy, aren't we?

[quote] For someone who was “terrible” she had 3 Emmys, 1 Tony, 3 Drama Desk Awards and was famously only a couple votes shy of an Oscar nomination for Woody Allen’s “September”

Oh honey, if you believe the latter is true, you're pretty hopeless. How that would even leak from Price waterhouse in the first place is pretty unlikely.

And as for awards, BIG FUCKING DEAL. William Shatner has an Emmy, and so does Jon Cryer (!!!). James Spader also has three for "Boston Legal'!

Supposedly, she was so cheap she squeaked. I first learned of her many years ago when they showed the britcom with Peter Cook as her butler.

Forced to turn in my gay card when I admitted that I can't stand the film Wizard of Oz (except for adorbs Flying Monkeys).

I thought she was a hoot when I re-discovered her playing Rudy Huxtable's teacher on "The Cosby Show."

Stritch was also supposed to play Rose in Gypsy but financing fell through at the last minute. It was a loss, she’d have owned that role.

She was considered the spoiler for the Oscar that year but not enough voters saw the movie.

R80, Lucy would have owned the role and she could have sung it just as well as Stritch could have.

BTW, when financing fell through, that's when Lansbury walked in and theater history was made.

I just listened on youtube to both Stritch and Merman do You're Just in Love. Stritch was awful. I mean awful. Merman was fabulous. And Merman could actually sing. No, Merman's not Barbara Cook but she was ten times better than Stritch as a singer.

And that distracting behavior while Barbara Cook was rehearsing In Buddy's Eyes? Deliberate and petty.

And, of course, no one knows what the votes were for Oscar noms. What utter rot to even suggest it.

[quote] Stritch was also supposed to play Rose in Gypsy but financing fell through at the last minute. It was a loss, she’d have owned that role.

Aw, go fuck yourself

I still don't get her "joke" about the whore and the stairs. Could anyone explain it to me if you get it, please?

The Merm ADORED Stritchie, and went out of her way to say so in her autobiography.

R84 It means, it's not doing the actual job that's difficult, but the work you have to do to get there.

In Sondheim and Co., they said that when Cook and and Hearn were doing Too Many Mornings, all of a sudden everyone started screaming with laughter, or maybe just screaming. Stritch took all her clothes off and was walking around naked. In the book, they say that when Elaine lets it all hang out, she really let's it hang out.

Stritch lost the nomination by under 10 votes. She came within 10 votes of Norma Aleandro of “Baby”

“Gaby” not baby sorry

It's actually hilarious one Broadway queen would get so hysterically worked up about someone not liking Elaine Stritch he would tell them they must therefore be unloved and alone on Christmas Eve!

Only on Datalounge... LOL!

I heard she was into fisting

everything you said about her is true. i saw a documentary about her and she would go into low blood sugar diabetic rages. she's a caricature.

R90 You're strawmanning.

You can hate Elaine Stritch. You can hate Angie Lansbury, Judy Garland, Patti LuPone, Bette Midler, Lucy Ball, Ethel Mertz, Eleanor Roosevelt and whoever else.

What's odd is that you made an entire thread dedicated to it, 4 years after she died, when there isn't any particular news about her going on. And then beyond that, you're obsessed with continually trying to convince everyone of this point of view.

It's a mental illness. But be well. I know the holidays are hard for your type.

Thank you OP. You are right. I personally hats Eartha Kitt and her horrible Santa Baby and that stupid cat shtick of hers. She stunk up the episode of The Nanny she was on.

So much hatred around here. Merry Christmas!

[quote]She absolutely ruined the original cast recording of Company, In the opening number she holds a long drawn-out note - and she is so blatantly loud and FLAT. It's painful!

Shut your mouth, that flat note is iconic!

i wonder if pill cosby roofied and raped her on the set of the cosby show?

[QUOTE]What's odd is that you made an entire thread dedicated to it, 4 years after she died, when there isn't any particular news about her going on.

What part of "pointless bitchery" don't you understand?

And incidentally, it's pathetically hypocritical to accuse someone of strawmanning (when they aren't - R90 accurately summarised your "argument" as given in R57) when you yourself engaged in ad hominem attacks.

R76/OP

I know, passive aggressive behavior sucks. Let me be more direct.

Smooches to everyone!

I’m not familiar with most of her work, but thought she was a hoot in that Jane Fonda Monster-In-Law movie. Maybe because the character only appears towards the end ?

R80, that was the London production of Gypsy that eventually starred Lansbury. The producers couldn't raise the money with Stritch attached as Rose so they withdraw the offer to her, despite her being an audience favorite in London, and offered it to Angela. They were were then successful in getting funds and the show was a big hit. The production was then moved to the US for a short tour which ended on Broadway, where it was again a big hit.

You're Just in Love was from Merman's show Call Me Madam. Stritch was Merman's standby on Broadway (although, of course, The Merm never missed a single performance) and then starred in the national tour. Russell Nype co-starred in both productions. Work that skirt, Elaine, work it!

Meanwhile, I love this blues ballad from Goldilocks, which starred Stritch. It has a great score by Leroy Anderson, his only Broadway musical, but the book was allegedly such a piece of shit that it sank the show and it didn't have a long run. But the cast recording has a cult following.

R103, the reason they raised the money was because Lansbury's brother got involved. It wasn't simply on her name value. Did she even do Mame in London? Or any show to that time?

I love that Stritch is supposed to be giving advice to Russell Nype in the song but never looks at him until he embraces her at the end. There's a clip of them at a tribute to Chita and she does the same thing. "It's about ME. ME! ME!! Fuck Nype!"

R104, Ginger Rogers was the first Mame in London, and although she was a hit with audiences, the cast and crew had few good things to say about her. I won't go into those stories in a thread about Stritch.

R99, no dear, you were strawmanning. I never said that anyone was wrong for disliking anyone. "Pointless bitchery" is ok when comes organically in a discussion. What you're doing is just strange. I don't like, I don't know, Mitzi Gaynor. I would feel free to express that opinion, but I would never bother to make a whole "I never liked Mitzi Gaynor" thread. Why would I bring up a person I don't like? I would avoid the subject.

Again, I know your kind gets very depressed around the holidays. Go look at all the Christmas episodes on Antenna TV. They might cheer you up, buddy!

I heard she gave the entire cast Gingervitus r106!

R39, Stritch said she stopped drinking but she never really did.

Stritch was in the original production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and by all accounts she was a brilliant Martha. The original production always had a double cast, one for matinees and one for evenings. Stritch was first an understudy or stand-by Martha, later a matinee Martha, and finally an evening Martha. Some thought she was better than Uta Hagen, the legendary first Martha.

She later played Martha in a BBC radio production of the show linked below. The direction and other performers are less than what she had to work with on Broadway but she is still astonishing.

Her unique range is demonstrated by the fact that one season in summer stock she alternated playing Martha in Virginia Woolf and Mrs Anna in The King and I and got wonderful reviews in both parts.

Nobody else likes I Never Know When to Say When?

She seems like a child molesting nun.

Stritch as Anna is really terrible casting.

Ultimately, she was a very versatile, and talented performer. Her drinking habit, as years went on, made her tough to take, at times. And then old age made tough to take. But I love her, and I can't imagine anyone could watch the above episode of Theater Talk, where at 88 she's more engaging and interesting and quick witted than anyone a quarter of her age, and not come away with at the very least grudging respect.

She's someone I feel I should like more than I do. She was a survivor, but her "I'm a tough old bird' personal got wearying fast, and I wasn't overwhelmed by "At Liberty". And that "You're Just In Love" was godawful. But Albee loved her and by all accounts she was astonishingly good in "Three Tall Women" . And I love "I Never Know When To Say When". The "Goldilocks" score is exceptionally fine.

But for all her annoying qualities, there is nobody like Stritch (or LuPone) amongst the bland Sutton Kelli girls who rule Broadway now.

I always thought she was some kind of New York in joke, like Fran Liebowitz, you know famous in NY for some minor thing 20 years ago but went to all the parties and knew the right people.

Thanks, r114. I disagree slightly with some of what you said but respect all of it.

On of the best bits in Love! Valour! Compassion! is when Nathan Lane's character wakes up screaming during the middle of the night and his week-end housemates rush in to find out what's wrong.

"I was having a musical comedy nightmare! Elaine Stritch and Tommy Tune in The King and I!"

^ Or something like that. I was paraphrasing. The actual line might be slightly different.

Thank you, r86!

I could never feel sorry for her for being a virgin and then going on her first date with Marlon Brando. That would be anyone else's dream; and yet she spoke of it as if it were at the very least the equivalent of being pulled from the burning wreckage of the Hindenburg.

Complete and total narcissist. Capable of turning anything into being all about her. So, yes, of course, a thorough pain in the ass to be with or even near.

But brilliant. Intelligent. A peerless actress and matchless story teller. She was absolutely electric on stage and beyond endurance back stage.

If you had the privilege of seeing her in "A Delicate Balance," or "Company," you will never forget it. If you ever met her, you will never it. If you ever crossed her, you won't forget that, either. As a person, she was challenging. As an actress, she was simply the best.

She was electrifying in Company.

When you're that young and you experience a force like that in a theater it's unforgettable and you can forgive that performer anything.

When I saw At Liberty for the second time it was at the Alvin and after the performance she gave an interview on stage for the audience with a NY Times journalist who told her when he was a kid he took the bus in from Jersey to see Company at that very theater. That's exactly what I did as a young adolescent.

And you've got to love a catholic who thinks a piece of Mahler's is a slice of jewish pastry.

She said during that original run she had no idea what Ladies Who Lunch was about. She said though she pretty much understood it by the time of At Liberty.

She worked with Sondheim, Coward, Albee, and Bela Lugosi. That some of you don't like her didn't slow her down.

I once worked with Elaine Stritch. She was an excellent actress but Christ was she a pain in the ass. The way she acted, you'd think she was the only person in the world who had diabetes.

I really liked her in 30 Rock. In one episode we got to see Stritch as Jack’s mother and Patti LuPone as Frank’s mother.

[quote]If you had the privilege of seeing her in "A Delicate Balance," or "Company,"

[italic]MARY!!![/italic]

The [italic]privilege![/italic]

Check your Stritch-privilege at door.

Excuse me, but Stritch never won a Tony. The Tony was for "At Liberty" as a theatrical piece. Therefore it was awarded to the producers. Stritch co-opted the Tony and the acceptance speech, even though they weren't hers. Yes, she gave performances that should have won a Tony, but I think her overbearing personality made her disliked and therefore, Tonyless.

I kinda liked her - imagine she could be a raging cunt in the flesh - but loved seeing her perform and hearing her stories about Broadway’s Golden Age - she was a part of it - and so few left from that era. So hearing her oral history of the time was fascinating...

Had some friends over one evening and out it on as i thought they’d both enjoy - a middle aged gay man who was a bit of a theatre queen - and a straight middle aged woman friend who was also a music/opera/dance/theatre buff. Had to turn it off as they were both distressed/repelled. The woman friend especially. She had a genuine narcissist for a mother - and Stritch just reminded her of mother too much for comfort...

[QUOTE]I never said that anyone was wrong for disliking anyone

And R90 - who isn't me by the way - never said you did say that. All they said was you were getting so worked up over someone not liking Stritch that you were saying they must not have anyone to spend Christmas with. Which is entirely accurate.

The only one using logical fallacies is you - your repeated ad hominem attacks and - ironically - using a strawman yourself by attempting to misrepresent R90's point.

[QUOTE]Again, I know your kind gets very depressed around the holidays

Says the poster repeatedly posting in a thread which he doesn't like.

STRITCH, PLEASE!

Thanks, R120. You hit the nail on the head. She was amazing.

These show analyses by Seth Rudesky crack me up....

For the life of me, I don't know why she didn't do more glamour parts...

Fill 'er up!

[italic] An' one for Mahler! [/italic]

Well, I think what was good about her is she really put it OUT there as a performer. You certainly wouldn't call her subtle! And I do respect that. It takes bravery.

She was obviously a grating narcissist offstage, and the idea of encountering her drunk is even MORE terrifying...but she had a definite quality. I would say she was a better actress than singer, though extremely limited.

She's actually a bit disgusting, honestly. But art thrives on monsters, so...

What is interesting about r122's observation was all these greats appreciated her talents despite the fact that she was incredibly obnoxious and difficult backstage and offstage. Who gets away with that today?

When Stritch left her apartment in the Carlyle to go back to her family (In the midwest somewhere) , the entire staff threw a huge celebratory party. By all accounts she treated them like dirt.

Did Stritch have any friends?

Once she went bak to her her family she began drinking again. She probably felt "Fuck this, I don't have many years left. I'll drink what I want"

R124 LuPone and Stricht both difficult but seemed to respect one another’s talent

[quote]LuPone and Stricht both difficult but seemed to respect one another’s talent

Stritch had to respect me. I stole her signature song and sang it at the Sondheim birthday celebration. And she got stuck screaming her way through "I'm Still Here" a song that was so far out of her range it could have been on Mars.

Whether it's two votes or ten, how would anyone KNOW how close she came to being nominated? The Academy doesn't release those figures.

I can't believe how incredibly off-pitch she is in that "You're Just in Love" clip. I thought her pitch problems all came with age, but apparently not.

Russell Nype, by the way, is still alive at 93.

[quote]On of the best bits in Love! Valour! Compassion! is when Nathan Lane's character wakes up screaming during the middle of the night and his week-end housemates rush in to find out what's wrong. "I was having a musical comedy nightmare! Elaine Stritch and Tommy Tune in The King and I!"

The movie changed that to "West Side Story with Robert Goulet and Cher," since there actually is a video of Cher doing all the parts from WSS.

I've known some (many of you go back over my 25 years in NYC and almost 40 in the metropolitan area) gay men who seemed to be Elaine Stitch. Most in the theater, usually C status performers. They were hoots, they quipped, they complained about their heath and sought special attention, they either drank too much or were in AA. They were of a generation. They were bitches and were insufferable.

[quote] R84 I still don't get her "joke" about the whore and the stairs. Could anyone explain it to me if you get it, please?

Back in the day, streetwalkers would promenade the boulevard, sinking their tallons into men and enticing them back to cheap hotel rooms. Then you might climb several flights of stairs to get to the prossy's room, and both come wending your way down a half hour later, to go your separate ways. Prossy-kins would then stroll around, looking for another customer to bring back to the cheap hotel.

So....the joke is that it is not the actual sex part (what one immediately associates with the work) that's difficult about being a prostitute...it's going up and down all those flights of stairs many times a day/night to [italic] facilitate [/italic] the actual sex.

R136, Stritch never really stopped drinking but she drank more and openly when she returned to her family who hated her like most everyone else who knew her.

R144, Stitch must have been insufferable in AA then, if she was secretly drinking and pretending to be sober.

She never made it in Hollywood. She needed a live audience.

She replaced Rosalind Russel as Ruth in the original Broadway production of Wonderful Town. I bet that was a wonderful performance. I can just hear her delivery of 100 Easy Ways to Lose a Man. Wish her performance had been preserved in some form other than a few still photos.

[quote] Back in the day, streetwalkers would promenade the boulevard, sinking their tallons into men and enticing them back to cheap hotel rooms. Then you might climb several flights of stairs to get to the prossy's room, and both come wending your way down a half hour later, to go your separate ways. Prossy-kins would then stroll around, looking for another customer to bring back to the cheap hotel.

Why would you tell this story and refer to the prostitute as "Prossy-kins"???

R147, Carol Channing replaced Rosalind Russell in the original production of WONDERFUL TOWN. Stritch played it for three weeks at City Center in 1967. Earlier City Center productions starred Nancy Walker and Kaye Ballard as Ruth Sherwood.

I've known some (many of you go back over my 25 years in NYC and almost 40 in the metropolitan area) gay men who seemed to be Elaine Stitch. Most in the theater, usually C status performers. They were hoots, they quipped, they complained about their heath and sought special attention, they either drank too much or were in AA. They were of a generation. They were bitches and were insufferable.

I think this explains her appeal to some older gay men. "Well, just like Elaine Stritch, I may be extremely obnoxious and difficult and a drunk and everyone hates me... but at least I'm FUNNY!"

[quote]I think this explains her appeal to some older gay men. "Well, just like Elaine Stritch, I may be extremely obnoxious and difficult and a drunk and everyone hates me... but at least I'm FUNNY!"

And ironically, the gay men who emulate them end up pushing other gay men away.

[quote]R148 Why would you tell this story and refer to the prostitute as "Prossy-kins"???

I didn't want to repeat the word "prostitute" again and again in the same paragraph.

Here are some useful synonyms for "prostitute":

whore

hooker

lady of the evening

tramp

streetwalker

call girl

harlot

sex worker

Note that "Prossy-kins" appears nowhere in this list.

While visiting NYC around 2005, I saw her perform at The Carlyle. I went with a bunch of friends and I admit I didn't know much about her other than she was the old broad who sang "Ladies who Lunch". She was highly entertaining. We were at a big table close to the stage. At the end as she was making her way through the crowd to head back up to her apartment, she would shake a few hands along the way.

When she got to our table, she stopped, took my face in both her hands and kissed me on the forehead. I was pretty flabbergasted and afterwards strangers were asking me if I knew her or something. One of her musicians was in earshot and quipped, "nah, she probably just thought he was cute."

I always had a little special place in my heart after that for her. That said, I've since watched the documentaries about her and the one about COMPANY--she was surely a nightmare to deal with on a personal and professional level!

Ahhh! Have just now gotten home from a six-hour, six-course Christmas feast with 15 other people at my brother and sister-in-law's house, replete with cute kids, zillions of presents and a Pacific Ocean of alcohol.

So, R57 - what'd I miss here?

Thanks for the correction, r149. According to Ovrtur.com, Channing also did the first national tour.

R153 Crosspatch Prossy-kins to the extreme!

r153 omitted these other synonyms:

"Melania"

"FLOTUS"

Oh please, Stritch had more talent in her pinky toe than Cook did in her whole alcohol bloated body.

She sort of reminds me of Cloris Leachman who seems like a batty old lady but really has worked with legendary people and created a very cool life.

[quote]R159 Stritch had more talent in her pinky toe than Cook did in her whole alcohol bloated body.

Your cruelty is immeasurable. Her voice and sensitivity were divine.

And I don't even really care for sopranos.

[quote]Ooozed charisma.

More like chlamydia R28.

I am the now and forever Ruth Sherwood!

I pitched a sitcom for her..."Strichly Ballroom" ...ballroom dance instructor at a retirement facility, didn't fly obviously.

She could walk around and nothing but a man's shirt showing off those legs, and could still pull in some decent dick in any American city.

At reply (136). I don't doubt your statement about her living/leaving and the staff throwing a celebration party with her departure from the Carlyle Hotel. I just don't see how she could have afforded to have lived there. She must have been turning some high paying tricks. Never heard of or heard this woman sing until this thread. If she sang like that in Michigan/Midwest, where she and myself are from.... The dog catcher would have rounded her up. Drinking while back in her home state would have not been enough to numb the pain.

[quote]I just don't see how she could have afforded to have lived there.

Elaine spent a lot of years living in hotels. When she was doing Company in London, she lived in The Savoy. She (or her producers) were able to negotiate discounts because it was guaranteed income for the hotel. The only thing I can't figure out is that I thought NYC hotels had some kind of law that forbid long term residents, because anyone long term and the hotel had to start abiding by apartment rental laws.

I like "Prossykins." Could be a character in CATS.

Hunter Ryan Herdlicka in that clip with Elaine from earlier on - he's straight, right?

You are kidding, I hope, r169? Major queen, with lots of attitude.

& with Elaine.

I thought she only lived at The Carlyle while she was in "residence " there and performing downstairs?

[quote]I like "Prossykins." Could be a character in CATS.

I am the only hooker cat in CATS.

I never had a problem r167........

Stritch lived in the Carlyle on a permanent basis. I heard that she lived there rent-free in exchange for always mentioning that she lived there. I would have thought knowing she lived there would keep people away from staying there.

I couldn't stand that whole schtick about how attracted she was to Rock Hudson. She was only in A FAREWELL TO ARMS for about two minutes, and surely she knew he was a homo!

She seems like a dyke. Was she ever pulling dick? I saw a NYT short video interview and she said the most attractive man/unrequited love of her life was SS. And that although he could appreciate her on certain levels, he didn’t want anything to do with her. She said his looks and his mind made him the most attractive man to her. She was downcast.

Dyke? Sexless faghag?

[quote] I couldn't stand that whole schtick about how attracted she was to Rock Hudson. She was only in A FAREWELL TO ARMS for about two minutes, and surely she knew he was a homo!

Tony Randall must have figured it out because who do you think he based his gay-ish title character in [italic]Love, Sidney[/italic] on?

I always assumed she was one of those "strong" straight women who were in a neverending battle to find a man who would tolerate and settle down with them. (Really, I only know details about her life from her 2001, 1-woman show AT LIBERTY).

She gets teary remembering her late husband John Bay (married 1973-1982). I assume he was alcoholic as well...because who else could possibly put up with her?? He died and she was alone again....naturally.

Elaine Stritch was either a repressed lesbian or just a repressed Catholic. Her "affair" with Ben Gazzara was chaste (according to him), and her true love husband was gay. She may have thought men would find her sexy, R3, but I doubt she wanted them near her.

Such a sweet and unassuming nature......literally "the milk of human kindness."

R175 is right, she had some kind of arrangement with The Carlyle that allowed her to live there rent free. That's one of the reasons the staff hated her so very much, she wasn't even paying anything and still she treated everyone like shit. I heard the she moved back to Wisconsin or wherever because she finally became so outrageous (and perhaps beginning to suffer from dementia) that the hotel ended the arrangement. She then couldn't afford to live in Manhattan and had to go home to let family take care of her.

Just what I heard, although from multiple sources. Open to correction.

She didn't move back to Wisconsin or wherever, she moved to Michigan.

BIRMINGHAM-FRICKIN-MICHIGAN!

Right, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota -- one of those places on the other side of The North River.

[quote]R185 Right, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota -- one of those places on the other side of The North River.

I can't even imagine what her temper became once she didn't have all New York as her on-call audience.

I just imagine her staggering naked out into the snowy rural streets at 3:00 am, yowling, "Y'ALL SUCK!" and hurling her bottle against a lamp post or something.

Her poor nieces, or whoever they were, who probably wanted to do the right thing but had no idea what they were really getting into.

[quote] I saw a NYT short video interview and she said the most attractive man/unrequited love of her life was SS.

Sam Shepherd? Steven Spielberg? Sylvester Stallone? Sebastian Stan? Scott Speedman? Sirhan Sirhan?

Frank Langella?

Oh dear....this article about her farewell concert is kind of horrifying and touching at the same time!

-----------------------------

from THE NEW YORKER (2013) "Elaine Stritch’s Long Goodbye"

[italic] ....What wasn’t clear to everyone right away was that Stritch had to be in control of the room...She also didn’t like it when people messed with the mood she created; this happened, rather painfully, during the Sondheim section. She is, of course, famous for singing his songs, and has made them her own—“The Ladies Who Lunch,” from “Company”; “I’m Still Here,” from “Follies”—but finds them demanding, especially now. “You can’t get better than him. But let me tell you how hard he is to sing, honest to God! What’s that art school—it’s like being locked in the john at Juilliard!” She first met Sondheim, she said, at an elegant party on Park Avenue decades ago, full of rich people. “They said, ‘Elaine, sing!’ They used to ask me to sing and make ’em laugh at parties.” Sondheim was to accompany her, and asked her to sing her favorite song; she had said that it was Rodgers and Hart’s “He Was Too Good to Me.”

“And Sondheim said, ‘Holy Toledo, Elaine, that’s my favorite too.’ And I sat down next to Steve Sondheim, and I dedicated it to him, as I do tonight, with all my heart,” Stritch said. She sat down on the stool. The room was quiet—focussed and grateful. “Guess who made my stay in New York twice as joyful? Stephen Sondheim.” Bowman played the piano, and she sang. “He was too good to me.” It was beautiful, tender, sad. But a few lines later, by accident, instead of “I was his queen to him,” she sang, “He was a queen—I was a queen too,” and got laughs. The laughter felt generous enough—the familiar camp laugh of the musical-theatre crowd, a crowd made comfortable by the intimacy of the café and the love in the room—but she hadn’t meant the joke, and the laugh upset her. “That was unintentional!” she said. People kept laughing, thinking that she was having fun, but she wasn’t. “I don’t play dirty, and that’s not very nice. Get it out of your lives, it’s not going to do you any good.” She sang again. But the next line was “I was gay now.” A man seated to the side of the piano—Riedel—laughed. She turned toward him. “Are you having fun?” she said acidly. “That’s another one you picked up.” She sang more lines, back on track, and that was nice too. “I’m so sorry that that happened,” she said to the room, as Bowman played more notes on the piano. “But let it happen with love and respect, and not bullshit like that.” The crowd was startled—weren’t we all having a good time?—and sorry. People clapped to show their support. When Stritch sang again, the mood was good. Then she did something lovely, weaving some “Porgy and Bess” into the Rodgers and Hart—“He was too good to me. Morning time and evening time, summertime and wintertime, he was too good to me.” The song came to a delicate, gentle conclusion. [/italic]

What a hag.

[quote][R144], Stitch must have been insufferable in AA then, if she was secretly drinking and pretending to be sober.

Well, no, I wouldn't say that, well I mean she was but not at first. I myself have been sober for many years, basically the same years Elaine was "sober" here in NYC. I knew her a bit and do believe she was actually abstinent for about 20 years. I'd say when she discovered she was diabetic, she bizarrely started sneaking drinks again. After some time, having lost all sense about it, Elaine drank more openly while still referring to herself as sober, even going so far as to speak at AA meetings and mention she'd had a drink recently, ONE, on a plane because of her fear of flying, to steady her nerves, so she claimed. One per flight we came to understand. She acted like it was allowed because she had this all down by now, plus she was so special!

I saw her in "At Liberty" twice and she was excellent, really a superb story teller. A few years later ALL of it was gone. I could see the writing on the wall after that as she became increasingly and openly nasty, which she really hadn't been when she was actually sober. I saw her do a concert at Town Hall and of the dozen or so songs she sang she got lost/forgot the lyrics in ALL of them except "Ladies Who Lunch", and even then I could tell she was searching for them in her brain. It was sad. She was nasty and edgy with her loyal pianist Rob, which was just uncomfortable. In that documentary about her, she gives little excuses for taking HALF a drink before a show, but you can see there are wine and cocktail glasses everywhere. Like all boozers, she was a huge liar and bully.

It's not like she had a real apartment or suite at The Carlyle, it was just a regular room with a bed. I guess for free you can't be fussy, but it seemed an odd way to live when she certainly had resources for a decent rental. Elaine worked constantly her entire adult life. She was married to her (gay) husband who seemed to be in the English Muffin business, so perhaps she got a few bucks from him. Elaine also owned a home in Sag Harbor for many years that she sold late in life for a few million bucks as I recall. She also received Social Security and pensions from SAG, AFTRA, and Actors Equity. I assume she had decent cashflow. I recall she bought herself that condo in Michigan when she moved there so she wasn't in any way poor.

Here's the thing, there's a predictably short lifespan once an elderly diabetic goes back to serious boozing. I predicted she'd be dead in a year once she was alone and drinking full time, and I was right.

R192 Thanks. This gives a lot of insight into how she ended up...

I feel a kind of affection for her, as well as exasperation, and respect. Alkies are complex people!!

Like Joan Rivers she needed an audience no matter what and at the end that need becomes very scary.

Death for both of them was desperately needed.

Those legs are knobbly knee-ed not that of a 25 year old. Long and thin yes but look arthritic OP

[quote]R195 Those legs are knobbly knee-ed not that of a 25 year old...look arthritic

It's vewy, vewy sad....

[quote] I predicted she'd be dead in a year once she was alone and drinking full time, and I was right.

Well she was 89 so it's not like you were going too far out on a limb

Bay's English muffins are very good. There are a lot of people other than Elaine who will only eat that brand.

Wasn't the woman in R186's post the star of a series of Bradlees stores ads?

Bay's English Muffins are always kept in the refrigerated section, while Thomas' and other brands are kept in the bread section.

I have found this thread interesting and sad. I have always enjoyed Elaine Stritch and feel I was fortunate to have seen her in both At Liberty and A LIttle NIght Music. She was terrific in both, and I enjoy the sound track for At Liberty. It doesn’t surprise me that she was so hard to get along with. She must have been in a lot of pain under it all. The fact that she managed to put together a career which appears to have brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people seems remarkable, and I can only help she didn’t create too much pain for others along the way. I love the story Stephen Sondheim tells about how he went to a night club with Elaine at 2 AM, and she proceeded to ask for a bottle of vodka and a floor plan. Maybe it really is the stairs after all.

I never thought I'd say this Elaine, but............

I worked on the TV show Bless This House in the mid-90’s that starred Andrew Dice Clay and Cathy Moriarty that didn’t even last one season. Elaine Stritch was a guest star on one episode playing Cathy’s mother. Cathy specifically asked for her because she adored her. Well, Hurricane Elaine blew in. At the table read, she announced she had completely rewritten all of her lines because what they had written was shit. She said she would only say the lines the way she wrote them and if they didn’t like it, they could fire her right then. She didn’t get fired but a compromise was made with the writers. They sat down with her and punched up her lines even more. Elaine was testy and grumpy during most of the rehearsal period. Complained about this and that in her foghorn voice. On tape day, she walked around in her bra and slip and it shocked most of the cast and crew because they weren’t used to theater people. When taping began, she was brilliant. I got to know her briefly as she took a liking to me as I was a lowly production assistant but I had told her how much I enjoyed her work in the first day when we were standing around before the table read started. She looked me up and down and said, “you don’t even know who the fuck I am.” I looked art her and rattled off several of her theater credits. She said, “I guess you do know who I am.” I mentioned that I had a degree in musical theater but decided to come to LA instead of NYC and she chastised me for my choice but we had a good laugh about it. The rest of the week, she would always talk to me and made sure I was her go to person. She was very kind to me those few days and we had some good laughs. Yes, she was a HUGE and I mean HUGE pain in the ass but she could also be kind. Never saw her again in person but I still think about her every once in awhile and have a good laugh.

R203 Stories like that are the best of Data Lounge. Please cherish that memory. It is a great one.

R200 not at Kroger, Meijer or anywhere I've seen, always on the bread shelves

[quote]not at Kroger, Meijer or anywhere I've seen, always on the bread shelves

Then you need to report those stores to the Bays company. They even say right on their website "Have you ever wondered why Bays English Muffins are sold in the refrigerated dairy case and not in the bread aisle along with most other English muffins?" AND "Visit us in the refrigerated section" AND "Find us at your local retailer in the dairy aisle."

If you're buying unrefrigerated Bays, you're buying nasty, fermented product.

[quote]R206 If you're buying unrefrigerated Bays, you're buying nasty, fermented product.

Like Stritch.

"Hello, NYPD? I have a psychotic woman here who needs to be taken to Bellevue - please hurry."

She was a pain in the ass. She would churn any situation and disrupt anything to get more attention for herself. But she was not gratuitously mean like Lauren Bacall.

she's 85 here. And FABULOUS.

That was wonderful R211! Thank you for that. I guess she is just one of those people -- you either love her or hate her. I think she was fantastic but I also think that even those of us in the "love" pile acknowledge that she was probably tough to be around.

It's always interesting when an woman who looks like someone you walked by today - like another Birmingham, Michigan native Christine Lahti - and earns a good living in a cutthroat, looks-based business and creates a place for herself in that ruthless culture.

[quote]R213 It's always interesting when an woman who looks like someone you walked by today - like another Birmingham, Michigan native Christine Lahti - earns a good living in a cutthroat, looks-based business...

I looked fabulous in "Swing Shift."

Stritch is fucking marvelous in that Sondheim concert (though all of them, with the exception of Audra, are very good, Donna Murphy especially). She can't really sing anymore, but she acts the song beautifully, brings a lifetime of...life to the lines and makes it a singular experience. However specialized, you cannot say she wasn't a gigantic talent.

[quote]At the table read, she announced she had completely rewritten all of her lines because what they had written was shit.

I did that all the time.

R215 She was likely the last person to sing it who'd actually lived though some of the things mentioned in the song.

Man, Betty Buckley's version from a couple of years ago was terrible. Elaine Paige didn't quite seem to feel it either. I think Carol Burnett does a pretty great job with it, though.

I wonder why Patti LuPone has never tried it. She'd be great.

Although some would say she was type-cast, Stritch was great in that 1990s revival of 'A Delicate Balance.' (I wonder how she got along with Rosemary Harris backstage.)

Stritch is terrible in "I'm Still Here". It takes zero talent to scream your way through a song. If you look closely, you can see Sondheim's ears bleeding.

If you can watch that and all you can see and hear is Stritch screaming through a song, then you're a fucking moron and you should just go listen to Rihanna, which is what you deserve.

Blasphemy! She's fabulous.

r220, educate yourself. This is how "I'm Still Here" should be performed. Note the SINGING.

Fuck you. There isn't *only* one way to sing that song. Shove Cleo Laine up your ass.

r223 posting during intermission at Sponge Bob Square Pants: The Broadway Musical

r203: I'm with r204: Thats a great story. It's great to hear that you won her over, but I can't say I liked her after reading it. She sounds like she was broiling over with rage 24/7. Ultimately there was something very sad about her.

R225 R203 here. I agree that there was something so sad about her. I got the feeling that she never trusted her talent and just couldn’t relax and let it just be. It was interesting to watch her work during that week because she really wanted to be great in what was really an awful show. She would question everything. Why is she moving here or entering there or saying this line. She seemed like she was constantly in motion. Never sitting still. When you are a guest star, there is a lot of sitting around and waiting for them to get to your scenes. She wasn’t comfortable waiting. It irritated her and she would constantly ask when they were going to get to her scenes for rehearsal. On show day, she was nervous and she just wanted to be great. We taped in front of a live audience. She asked me to stand next to her behind set before taping began so she would have someone to talk to before she went out. I remember she grabbed my hand and just held on. We didn’t talk because taping had started but she just stood there holding my hand until she went on. Like I said, she was great on the show but she worried so much about being great that she worried herself into anxiety and made everyone else deal with it too. Once it was all over, she relaxed and was very loving toward everyone and talked about how she enjoyed it. Like she said in her one woman show, “it’s not the work, it’s the stairs” but she didn’t need to make the stairs so steep.

[quote]R212 you either love her or hate her.

Well, I think she was so inconsistent, you might both love her AND hate her.

She did some things really well....but then other times she was just grating.

Though very much appreciated as a talent she didn't have a major success until middle aged and in Company and that was in a supporting role.

Her big chance was Sail Away and that was another big Coward flop in a string of them. Insecurity probably made her a horror to deal with personally which you can see much too clearly in that documentary.

Even her british sitcom was never a PBS staple.

She made a career at the end out of surviving so long. But on stage she had charisma to burn. Just precious few opportunities to use it.

R226 Thank young for telling your story.

I'll be gracious and tell one nice story. At the Company reunion concert, Pamela Myers didn't have the means to buy an expensive dress. Stritch took a look at what Pam had and said it wouldn't work for such a high profile event. So Stritch went into her closet and chose one of her dresses for Pam to wear. So the black dress you see Pam wearing in the concert was a loaner from Stritch.

[quote] If you can watch that and all you can see and hear is Stritch screaming through a song, then you're a fucking moron and you should just go listen to Rihanna, which is what you deserve.

Wow, such powerful rhetoric!!!

R226 what a great story. Tons of insight into the woman. And, yes, it DOES explain the stairs joke. She could never understand why people didn't quite get that joke. But she'd internalized that it was the process of getting to where you were going that was difficult. When she first heard that joke, I bet she thought it summed up her life.

I love that, even in a shitty thread meant to tear someone down, there's been plenty of praise and insight to a talented and complex woman.

[quote] Wow, such powerful rhetoric!!! —no one ever

What a GREAT joke! HahahahahaHA.

Hey, Op...

And why has no one mentioned her very wonderful performance in September? Perfection and it should have gotten her an Oscar.

And the woman that DL loves to tear down and I still have no idea why when Meryl as a human being is a 100% hypocrite Mia gives another wonderful performance.

huh?

[quote]R235 And why has no one mentioned her very wonderful performance in September? Perfection and it should have gotten her an Oscar.

Because NO ONE SAW IT.

Even I, who love serious movies, turned it off after 20 mins. It's sterile, pretentious and boring. And Stritch is miscast as a desirable temptress.

R237 - Sam Waterston looks kind of fuckable in that clip.

Well I've seen it twice, the cast is great, it's not the least bit pretentious, though not ethnically or financially like these people I identified with so much of it and Sam Waterston is indeed very fuckable which understandably tears Mia emotionally to shreds.

R238 It's his least successful film (a real bomb, grossing only $486,434)

It had a doomed production from the start. First, Christopher Walken was fired. Then after shooting the whole movie, Allen realized it was a disaster and tried to salvage it by recasting 3 more actors -- Sam Shepard, Maureen O'Sullivan and Charles Durning -- and shooting all those scenes again.

It didn't help anything.

"...couldn't stand that whole schtick about how attracted she was to Rock Hudson."

Didn't Liz Smith make the same claim? Rock Hudson was every old lesbian's go-to guy.

R239 here.

I should add so you know where I'm coming from I loved Interiors when it opened and everybody but I mean everyone hated it.

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy I went a second time and I thought it was just as terrific.

And nobody hates pretentious stuff more than I do.

As in Stardust Memories Allen's homage to Fellini Interiors as an homage to Bergman is the real deal.

Yeah nobody liked Stardust Memories either except me.

Stritch was not a lesbian. Where the hell did that rumor start? Oh, Datalounge. She was, like it or not a wonderful actress and something very special as a live performer. She wasn't lovable. Why does everyone have to be lovable?

Of course she didn't have to be lovable but, to many who knew her and/or worked with her, she was hateable.

This is a great album......if you like her......

She had refinement.......

Easy Street.........

HEY! It's David Ehrenstein at R243!

Welcome back David!!!! I hope you'll be drinking tonight and staying with us.

Hey Miss Warwicke at R248! Got any recent scat stories? I hope they let you stay up late tonight in the facility.

^ David was never witty.

She was........

She was great years ago. The last 10-15 years of her life, no she was a bitter bitchy old lady.

Well I never worked with her so I can just enjoy her work.

I'm sure there are a number of people's work that I enjoy enormously that had I known them personally I could never enjoy what they created.

R251, David, how clever. Feeling the Old Crow Kentucky Straight yet?

Pamela Myers today....

r245: Stritch might be tolerable, but that arrangement is a bloody abortion.

Her singing or is it dry drunk chanting has to be some of the most painfull noise I have ever had to listen to. Us gays discussing her, here on data lounge will only keep someone alive whose memory and work needs to be burried at sea immediately. She knew somone to have stayed along so long. What was her nationality? Her being from Detroit which use to have mucho pull, may have been much help to this woman.

I'm not sure she was a lesbian, but she was a virgin a lot longer than most, was married once in middle age to a gay man, and had not a single noticeable romance with any man ever that we know of. It wouldn't be a stretch to think she was gay, would it?

Perhaps the real love of her life was booze. Or herself. There are some people so monstrously self-involved they can never connect with another human being.

John Lithgow told her off in "Third Rock from the Sun" and she responds "I'd throw this drink in our face if it wasn't so good". It was one of the most real moments in her acting career because you know she valued alcohol over revenge at being insulted.

Cantankerous, old, navel-gazing broad...I couldn't understand her appeal either, OP. Always wished she's put some trousers or a skirt on over those leggings.

I don't think she was a lesbian. Just a repressed Catholic girl who became disinterested in sex.

She was terrific on the Cosby Show as Rudy's teacher. She was humorous and didn't resort to any of her later day histrionics.

Stritch on Cosby? I did not know.

Do you suppose he fucked her?

1972 Elaine Stritch would have made an amazing Phyllis. That was the real tragedy. Follies with Stritch and Barbara Cook as Sally in the original company would have been a wonder

What the fuck kind of diplomat would think Elaine Stritch would make a perfect trophy wife and career helpmate?

Stritch as Phyllis Rogers Stone? Ludicrous.

Remember its 1972 Stritch not At Liberty Stritch

[quote]Remember its 1972 Stritch not At Liberty Stritch

A fishwife then, a fishwife now.

The Pennebaker's documentary is absolute evidence that even a 70s Stritch was nowhere near a sophisticated, elegant, jaded Trophy Wife. Stritch screams "SHUT UP" when she hears the playback. At least she can occasionally be self aware.

Having seen her on stage a number of times she certainly was one of the very few greats of that era.

She became though a very frightened old lady due to her diabetes and at the same time an audience that was inevitably becoming uninterested.

I'm jealous Stritch got to play with Bill Cosby's baseball bat.

She never licked you, either.

Why didn't she have that pockmarked face worked on years ago? It only got worse with age. And I never bought that "I'm an alcoholic" spiel of hers either. She was a binge drinker who would get snookered when she was nervous or overly anxious, but she was not a drunk.

[quote]At the Company reunion concert, Pamela Myers didn't have the means to buy an expensive dress. Stritch took a look at what Pam had and said it wouldn't work for such a high profile event. So Stritch went into her closet and chose one of her dresses for Pam to wear. So the black dress you see Pam wearing in the concert was a loaner from Stritch.

Such a shame Pamela Myers never had a big career post-Company. I love her in the Pennebaker doc.

Does anyone know what kept her from making it?

Pamela Myers worked/works all the time. What would "making it" in show business look like, R274?

It has been said, correctly, that you can make a killing, but you can't make a living. It is often 'either/or.' Myers is not the sweet and petite leading lady type. I've seen her as Marta in COMPANY, as Agnes Gooch in MAME, and as Fran Kubelik in PROMISES, PROMISES, and as Jack's Mother in INTO THE WOODS. She sang the shit outta that Bacharach score.

She was a regular for four years on television in SHA NA NA. She appeared on HAPPY DAYS, ALICE, STARSKY AND HUTCH, CHiPS, ST. ELSEWHERE. And a lot more.

That's a pretty good resume for someone in show biz, but it will still leave you without a decent dress to wear.

Okay, my apologies, R275. I guess I was speaking from a place of ignorance.

No need to apologize, R276. In a more fair world and more fair business, that magnificent voice should be given every opportunity. Instead, we have the Kardashians. Myers is not a leading lady. And it's tough being a YOUNG character actress. How far can you go playing Agnes Gooch?

Oh what do I do now r277?

r273 what are you yammering about? Elaine was a well-known alkie her whole career except for the few years she actually was abstinent. Trust me, they were far fewer than she pretended, and since all alcoholics are liars, you figure it out!

[quote]How far can you go playing Agnes Gooch?

Playing second fiddle to Kitty Carlisle on To Tell the Truth.

You never “stop” being an alcoholic. You just abstain, sometimes until death. 💀

you can't deny she was great on stage. The whole At Liberty one woman show is on YT

She was really superb in A Delicate Balance.

I would like to reach back into 2017 and buy R39 a beer.

I love you.

R282, HBO recorded it and realized it was unsuitable for airing so they made a documentary instead.

I was a 12 year old gayling in a small town in the west of Ireland and on our single TV channel Stritch starred in Two's Company. One day I saw her window shopping and stood by here pretending to look in the window too, but watching her out of the corner of my eye, to confirm it was indeed her. She caught my eye, winked at me conspiratorially, and gave me a great big smile.

R286, nice story. Thank you for sharing.

I agree with op. A self involved narcissist needing to be center of attention. Stunted 16 year old personality. Tedious.

In moderation, like anchovies or Gorgonzola, she was effective. Wouldn't want to know her.

She was in "Who Killed Teddy Bear?" Immortal for that alone.

R214 it's not so much that with these women. Because of their average looks they never posed a threat to other double/triple threat women thus eliminating acts of sabotage allowing them to fly under the radar.

I think it's hilarious the OP was for some reason so upsetting to some people that they were greyed out.

Who gives that much of a shit about preserving Elaine Stritch's good name? Only on datalounge.

[qquote]r67 As The Guardian remarked when she brought her solo show to The Old Vic, “Just another old lady in her tights who looks like she forgot to put a skirt on when she left the house.”

So cruel.

[quote]r290 She was in "Who Killed Teddy Bear?" Immortal for that alone.

Who DID kill Teddy Bear?

I bet it was the Stritchy bitch.

R293 Mary! had great legs.

Fuck you OP and all let the Elaine bashers....she was a fuckin Broadway legend. Nobody was like Stritchy and nobody ever will be. Yes, she was a broad with a mouth like a sailor, but that's what made her special... NEVER did she follow the rules of Broadway or Hollywood, and if she had, she may have been a bigger star. Elaine had balls like a fuckin bull and wasn't afraid to show them. I'm sad she passed, I wish I could have seen her on Broadway one more time. A few months before she left New York and passed away, I wrote to her at the Carlisle Hotel and she wrote me back IN HAND WRITING and a signed picture.....I will treasure that always.......Here's to the ladies who lunch

Nice legs for an old lady.

[quote]Once she went bak to her her family she began drinking again. She probably felt "Fuck this, I don't have many years left. I'll drink what I want"

Well, no. I was around Elaine from time to time during her last bunch of years in NYC. She was already back to drinking, but lying about it, except when she wasn't. It was always of the "Oh, don't tell ME I didn't NEED a drink! I have NERVES problems!"

She was exceedingly tiresome in her ability to both brag about being "sober" while actually quite firmly back to drinking! As I told people, "You know what they call an 85 year-old diabetic alkie who goes back to drinking? DEAD!"

[quote]Whenever I see a thread where everyone's agreeing with each other, I always think it's the same two or three talking to each other. Sad.

Why is this sad r19? Threads sometimes have a lot of people commenting - sometimes not so many. That's how threads work ...

David Ehrenstein visiting us @R296.

Nice legs are always the last to go. That's why old birds will still wear short skirts.

Shut up and eat your English muffin!

[quote] I'm sad she passed,

I bet Elaine Stritch would have said "died" instead of "passed."

she would have said "croaked"

I have no problem with an 85 year-old alkie diabetic drinking as much as she wants. It's going to kill her, but at 85 you've lived out your allotted life span, and since she had no dependents, it was entirely her choice.

I just didn't want to hear about her annoying life when she did those awful one-woman shows, or have my friends insist I go see and say, "She's a HOOT!" I don't much care for ballsy old women.

I had the experience of sharing a waiting room with her in the late 1980's. For about 20 minutes, just me and Elaine Stritch. She asked me a hundred questions and answered each of them before I could respond. I said almost nothing the entire time. It was 20 minutes of stream of consciousness. Humor. Anxiety. Impatience. Curiosity. Incuriosity. And then her appointment was about to begin and she scurried away in self-absorbed tizzy.

It would make a great short play for a graduate level playwriting student.

Fucking Patti Lupone

[quote] On tape day, she walked around in her bra and slip and it shocked most of the cast and crew because they weren’t used to theater people.

The entire thread is worth it just because of this one line.